Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 14, 2021

The Suppression Of Trump Voters Will Not Create Long Term Stability

Someone at CNN was tasked with writing a thrilling story about a brave democratic congressman who did not shy away from confronting the Capitol intruders.

How a swift impeachment was born under siege

Rioters were still ransacking the halls of the US Capitol when two Democrats stuck in lockdown together in the House office buildings across the street started drafting the impeachment resolution that led to the unprecedented second impeachment of President Donald Trump almost exactly one week later.

California Rep. Ted Lieu was forced to evacuate his office in the Cannon Office Building as insurrectionists converged on the Capitol. Grabbing a crowbar in his office, Lieu said he and his chief of staff called the top aide to Rhode Island Rep. David Cicilline while wandering the halls and asked if they could hunker down in Cicilline's office in the Rayburn House Office Building. ...

Shortly after the story was published someone (a fact checker?, Lieu?) most have notified CNN that a crowbar is an unlikely instrument to be found in a representative's office.

The story was implausible and had to be changed. That done a correction was appended to it.


bigger

The crowbar was replaced with a product placement, a "ProBar energy bar".

That is only one example of the ghastly reporting about the Trump impeachment by the 'librul' media.

They completely miss the point:

Michael Tracey @mtracey - 6:14 UTC · Jan 14, 2021
Virtually none of the corporate media coverage even bothers to remark on the radicalism of what occurred today. "Snap" impeachment with a total of two hours of debate, charging as a "high crime" that the president engaged in political speech.

The anti-Trump campaign, from Russiagate to Ukrainegate to this 'insurrection' nonsense, has likely done more damage to the U.S. than Trump managed to do during his four years in office. The hostility the Democrats have shown will create a huge backlash. Do they really believe that can suppress 74 million Trump voters?

As M.K. Bhadrakumar diagnoses:

For the outside world Trump Impeachment 2.0 can only appear as a kangaroo trial.
...
This ongoing project to impeach President Donald Trump for a second time in a little over a year is farcical. ...

What happened in Washington, DC, on January 6 was by no means an insurrection. Of course, US citizens were behind the Capitol Building siege. But the parallel ends there. There was no way they could have usurped power in America last Wednesday. In fact, even the vandalism was entirely due to the ineptness of the security personnel deployed there.
...
What is the guarantee that another Trump will not arise from outside the cabals that preside over politics in America and reaches out to the people directly? The fact of the matter is that Trump’s support base still remains the envy of any American politician. Seventy million Americans voted for him last November. That massive support base will feel further disenfranchised or disempowered by what the cabals are perpetrating on the Capitol Hill.

The real paradox is that the “mob” who besieged the Capitol building was largely drawn from the American middle classes — the petite bourgeoisie or the ‘transitional class,’ as Karl Marx described them ...
...
Make no mistake, this class is here to stay in America and if the post-pandemic economic recovery does not go brilliantly well or is mismanaged, its ranks will swell further. That is going to be Biden’s real challenge even if Pelosi were to dispatch Trump into political wilderness.

The backlash from this Trump impeachment will be huge. It may come in rare events of real domestic terrorism. But it is more likely to swell up through smaller acts of civil disobedience. There is a lot that the petite bourgeoisie can sabotage. The CIA has published volumes of advice, meant for people in other countries, on how to do that.

Feisal al-Istrabadi فيصل الاسترابادي @FIstrabadi - 00:03 UTC · 14 Jan 2021

Joy Reid just spoke on MSNBC of the necessity for “de-Baathifying” the Republican Party to rid it of Trumpian influences.

An excellent precedent. It has worked just great in Iraq.

The Democrats aren't stupid. They know that they are provoking more strife. They will use that to roll out authoritarian measure that will serve the powerful.

It is a suppression strategy that has, at times, worked in other countries.

But it does not lead to long term stability.

Posted by b on January 14, 2021 at 17:45 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Cop shoots lady in the back. Lady who is no threat to him at all. She is entering a small hallway where there are three or more cops with rifles. The situation is completely under control and a lady gets shot in the back.

And still no one is nervous, no one takes cover. They all just stand there. Cop who flouts all rules has just discharged his firearm for no good reason ...

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 15 2021 11:42 utc | 94

On the basis of other video of police shootings, fatal and found blameless by prosecutors and/or grand juries, the cop action was more justified than most. For example, it is more typical that the deceased citizen is shot in the back while trying to escape, frontally in the chest while immobilized etc. The lady was advancing at the cop, momentarily with her behind first, and looked quite a bit more fit. She was squeezing through a window in a door panel that was cleared from glass mostly by others. Perhaps she took the initiative being slimmer then the majority of the crowd -- the crowd and the cops "looked like America", i.e. mostly chubby. Yea, that meant that most of them would not repeat what she was doing.

What I am trying to say is that the shooting was FULLY within de-facto norms in U.S.A. Cops have an absolute right to be panicking beyond reason in a wide variety of situation, and I never read about cops being instructed to shoot first at body parts that do not cause death and to stop shooting once the target cannot move. For example, the target tries to open the door of his own dwelling while keeping in the other hand a dangerously looking sandwich. I bet he was shot in the back, but we are not suppose to second guess split second decisions motivated by the defense of lives of common people.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 15 2021 14:18 utc | 101

Mr. Trident

Please kindly refrain from using insulting language

Please apologize or I will never address you or your comments again.

Does it hurt you Anglo-Saxon Protestants to be polite and demonstrate a modicum of civility?

Or is it now part of your culture to be rude and obnoxious?

"Politeness is a Heavenly Crow, put it on your head, go wherever you want."

Posted by: fyi | Jan 15 2021 14:23 utc | 102

Glenn Greenwald demolished the specious and fraudulent narrative by Uniparty and
mockingbird Media haters of Trump & the Deplorables, for Big Tech's collusion in de-platforming Parler [ie. that Jan 6 Capital bldg protesters were using Parler to organize/coordinate there "attacks"]

by investigating the social media activities of alleged rioters arrested/identified so far:

Results: Alleged rioters used FACEBOOK and TWITTER to organize and coordinate for the Jan 6 event; none were active Parler users.

So why did not Aamzon/Apple/Google NOT de-platform FACEBOOK and TWITTER along with PARLER? Greeenwald rhetorically asks...

Via Christoforou: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8KAU_2T-ME (11:42 min)

Posted by: gm | Jan 15 2021 15:04 utc | 103

Bemildred @ 96

Well, we do know that Jacob Anthony Angeli Chansley is an actor and advertises himself for hire. That would be the QAnon shaman in the silly hat and face paint. He has an interesting genealogy as well, very very well connected. If you want an actor for a special job, someone you can trust, keep it in the family.

Piotr Berman @ 102

Thank you for missing the point entirely. The question is did any of this happen at all. Cop is out of control, firing away in a small space for no apparent reason. If a man with a gun is shooting ten feet away from me, or less, I am not going to stand there and wait to see what he does next. But everybody just stands there. Will also point out this cop is shooting in general direction of other cops. Before he takes aim and shoots the lady his gun wanders around and would have been pointing directly at other cops.

Will also point out that in a small confined space that gun is going to be loud, real loud. The video does have sound. It sounds more like a click than a gunshot. In that location people would be losing eardrums. And again, no one responds.

If you watch the video you will find more and more items that look staged.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 15 2021 15:25 utc | 104

@ EoinW 99
" Thus seeing a politically incorrect public figure, like Trump"

I don't think he's particularly "politically incorrect"; he's just not robotic, not scripted like a typical politician.

You know, the shit he says and writes is not vetted by an army of lawyers and tested by focus groups.

Also, TDS, it seems, disproportionately affects the 'educated' segments; office workers and government bureaucrats.

As I'm used to thinking within the marxist framework, I figure these are the socioeconomic segments that benefit most from liberal-globalist policies of Trump's political opponents. Cheap domestic undocumented workforce. Cheap imported stuff produced by cheap foreign labor. And no downside whatsoever: their office jobs are not threatened by liberal globalization. Not yet, anyway.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Jan 15 2021 15:31 utc | 105

@ gm 104

Greenwald was making a claim with no factual basis, talking out of his ass. Posts scraped from Parler show not only that planning for the protests was occurring on Parler (as well as Facebook and Twitter), but that Parler users were posting videos to the platform of themselves at the Capitol.

But Greenwald also misses the point: Facebook and Twitter have content moderation policies. Parler, because of their fanatical devotion to their interpretation of the first amendment, didn't even have one for illegal content (one of the head honchos at the company told kirtaner as much). They were on the path to making their platform liveleak with a far right-wing bent, and any sane tech company would refuse to do business with them (for the same reason most advertisers avoid advertising on pornographic websites).

What's pathetic about the Parler situation is that they had no back up plans. They fully depended on the "establishment" they bloviate so much against, even when they didn't have to. Sometimes your passion exceeds your expertise. This was really obvious with Parler.

Posted by: fnord | Jan 15 2021 16:45 utc | 106

@ Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 15 2021 13:34 utc | 100

Upon closer inspection of your UNZ article, the figures of 0.01% and 1/7000 are disingenuous. Let explain why.

The author came to that figure by dividing the total number of votes (158M approx?) by the amount of votes separating Biden and Tump in the 3 swing states (44K approx), then dividing it by half to show the amount of people who would have needed to change their vote. Any discrepancy would also account for 3rd party voters i assume...

Except, this figure does not take into account that those voters had to switch only in those 3 states, therefore his sample size is misleading, since 1 of his 7000 voters could have been in California according to this calculation, and had zero effect on the final outcome. I'm not really going to bother making my own detailed calculations, but safe to say, they would be nowhere near the 0.01% figure or 1/7000.... by rough superficial recalculation i make it a difference of 0.4% averaged across all 3 key states mentioned, meaning if 0.2% changed their mind.. then Trump could be Prez.

Still close, but that is 20 times less than the stated 0.01%, not sure why things need to be exaggerated sometimes. Could be a genuine mistake, not everyone studied statistics like me ;

So I'm afraid the pendulum of my perception has to once again swing a little closer back to my original point of view...

As you said, 'truth' does take some effort to find indeed.

Posted by: Et Tu | Jan 15 2021 16:53 utc | 107

Another irony of the conservative backlash to tech companies refusing to do business with conservative causes: if the conservatives got their way and got rid of Section 230, Amazon hosting Parler via AWS would mean that Amazon would be on the hook for any illegal content Parler might host. That's a good example of how conservatives today will cut off their nose to spite their face. Under a framework of private property rights, where no one has the duty to provide a service to anyone else (medical, technical, or otherwise), Parler getting the boot is the predictable outcome.

Posted by: fnord | Jan 15 2021 17:05 utc | 108

@108 fnord

This is true.

We need to undo this overreach.

But if Amazon colludes with other hosting services to deny access to inconvenient political opposition, then it becomes monopolies and antitrust.

This should be the only legitimate use of regulation: to make sure opposing views/products can arise naturally.

Then it would be upon the administration of such companies to regulate as they see fit while suffering the potential gains and losses of market share that coincide with political action.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jan 15 2021 17:16 utc | 109

William Gruff @98--

VK is a Russian version of FB and welcomes one and all and lacks the personal invasion FB pursues, which is one of the main reasons why I joined. I have no second thoughts of being censored there unlike with FB. It seems WeChat is also a worthy platform, but I haven't done any real investigation. Wife uses FB to connect with her family back East, which I use mainly to stay abreast with Pepe Escobar and comment at his site. IMO, it's clear the lessons from previous attempts at suppression within the Outlaw US Empire weren't learned by those seeking control, and they've already blown up in their face and have shown more of their Fascistic nature than Trump could ever do, which in turn will hamper anything Biden tries.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 15 2021 17:50 utc | 110

Re: "The Democrats aren't stupid."? This is one of the least accurate sentences you've ever written, b!

Choosing to Re-Impeach Trump now proves that the House Democrats are collectively very stupid. Impeachment, now, is a useless, symbolic exercise, a cathartic feel-good reaction, which will only have negative political consequences, short & long-term.

Trump has recently re-directed his Mob's anger toward the GOP because it didn't manipulate November's elections enough to get Trump another 4 years. If the Democrats had any political brains, they'd just shut up & let Trump destroy the GOP. But instead, they chose to rescue the GOP by Impeaching Trump.

FOX will fill their screens with pix & vid of Pelosi & Clyburn, to remind The Mob that Democrats are The Real Enemy. The Mob will howl & cosplay for a while, but by 2022, Trump will be gone (probably overseas, to avoid arrest and/or taxes), and the Mob will be voting straight GOP again.

Posted by: elkern | Jan 15 2021 18:06 utc | 111

The Ron Unz piece fails to highlight the distorting effect of the Electoral College system, which gives disproportionate weight to voters in states with small populations. Absent that, we would not be discussing "what if" scenarios about flipping relatively few votes in a few swing states.

Posted by: Rob | Jan 15 2021 18:10 utc | 112

Trump is engaging in the declassification of documents, one of which is the 2018 US Strategic Framework for the Indo-Pacific that's provided at the top of Pepe Escobar's essay, "Trump’s not-so-secret plan for containing China," that was published yesterday:

"These are the Top 5 items – with no euphemistic softening:

•Maintain as sacrosanct US 'primacy,' code for uncontested military power
•Promote the Quad (US, Japan, India, Australia)
•Fully support the (failed) Hong Kong color revolution
•Demonize everything connected to Belt & Road
•Invest in 'the rise of India'

"On the military front, things get way trickier: The imperative is to prevent Beijing, by all means necessary, from 'dominating the first island chain' – that is, the island ring from the Japanese archipelago to Taiwan all the way to the northern Philippines and Borneo. Moreover, 'primacy' should also be maintained in the 'area beyond.'

"So once again this is all about naval containment."

That's followed by an excellent graphic showing the first and second Island Chains. Of course, China isn't really worried:

"The 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party falls next July 23. The day before the declassification of Indo-Pacific, President Xi Jinping outlined his – and the CCP’s – vision for the almost three decades culminating in 2049, the hundredth anniversary of the People’s Republic of China.

"Here are Xi’s Top Three – in a nutshell:

•Keep calm and carry on, despite the ravaging effects of Covid-19, unrelenting Western – especially American – hostility, and the trials and tribulations of the crumbling US Empire
•Focus on domestic development, in all areas
•Focus on China’s priorities; then, whatever happens, the world outside will not be able to interfere.
•Solidify its own 'primacy' in the South China Sea while diversifying trade and development strategic options all along Belt and Road"

I tried to locate where Xi made this statement Pepe cites, but was unsuccessful, and Pepe provided no link. The essay closes with an economic forecast for China that Biden won't be able to do much about. Indeed, this article details how much damage Trump's Trade War did to the US economy and how it would benefit from Biden's ending it:

"The multi-year trade war with China under the Trump administration resulted in a peak loss of 245,000 US jobs, Reuters reported Friday, citing a study commissioned by the US-China Business Council, a business group representing major US firms with operations in China.

"In an escalated scenario, meaning a significant China-US decoupling, the US GDP could shrink by $1.6 trillion over the next five years, resulting in up to 732,000 job losses in the US by 2022 and 320,000 fewer jobs by 2025, according to the study. A gradual scaling back of tariffs, however, is likely to boost growth, resulting in an additional 145,000 jobs by 2025."

As I wrote when Trump announced his Trade War, the Outlaw US Empire would be much better off if it joined with China rather than trying to fight it, and now the results are in. Too bad this report will likely be suppressed. The article looks at Biden's position and concludes with an infographic detailing trade flows between China and the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 15 2021 18:20 utc | 113

private property rights - the biggest con sold to the masses....

Posted by: james | Jan 15 2021 19:05 utc | 114

Strategic-Culture's Editorial is the best journalistic reporting on the political split within the Outlaw US Empire I've come across. One short telling excerpt:

"This [blaming all its problems on foreign actors] is the ultimate scapegoating and destructive denial over endemic U.S. problems. Those problems are topped by the vast social and economic inequality that has been presaged by decades of neoliberal capitalism overseen by both Republicans and Democrats. Both parties seem unwilling or incapable of understanding what needs to be fixed in a fundamentally broken system. The rise of Trump was something of a diversion from addressing the root problem. And blaming Russia for ongoing problems is also another futile diversion. This systemic denial of reality by the American political class is why the U.S. crisis will continue to deteriorate because blaming everyone else but itself avoids the necessary ways and means to fix it." [My Emphasis]

At least we're informed as to why there're no attempts to fix the problems as the Neoliberal Parasites don't want them fixed as they profit greatly as the turmoil shrouds their activities. The Editors agree with most of us at MoA in their prescription for a solution:

"The solution will require mass popular mobilization for democratic rights."

But that's just the sort of action that will be resisted by the Neoliberal Parasites. Will it take a reenactment of the Kent State shootings to galvanize the public? Unfortunately, I think that's very much the case, and there'll be more than one massacre.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 15 2021 19:31 utc | 115

In the old ages in Greece Sparta oppressed the Helots with brute force during more than 400 years. This historical exmaple proves that rule through violent oppression can be quite stable. I doubt the elites in the USA have enough 'Spartan qualities' to organize the same violent oppression that long, my point is however that it is a proven possibillity

Posted by: Johannes Vermeer | Jan 15 2021 19:51 utc | 116

"The Democrats aren't stupid. They know that they are provoking more strife."

You could classify the aftermath of the rioting on Capito Hill as the biggest provocation that there ever was!


******* This is a massive PSY OPS that is now being perpetrated on the American Public! *******


And this time it is not being levied by any military or CIA or whatever else, but instead by the "agents" of the Elite Class.

Note that every day, a more outrageous proposition or manufactured lie is being promulgated (ie. AOC's declaration that the media needs to be reigned in ala "Ministry Of Truth level", or Mr. Dorsey's supposedly leaked declaration that his company has plans to enlarge the scope of censorship).

This is all designed to provoke people on the right to do something really stupid (and of course, violent) so that then it will be more possible to convince the rest of the American Public of the utter urgent necessity of the draconian policies they want to implement.

I hope no one on the right falls for this B....S (be they law-abiding, good or otherwise)

Posted by: susette | Jan 15 2021 20:04 utc | 117

Mr. fnord

Who or which political party in US or elsewhere do you consider to express "Conservative Ideas and Ideals"?

Posted by: fyi | Jan 15 2021 20:13 utc | 118

VK is a Russian version of [Facebook]....

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 15 2021 17:50 utc | 110

Thank you for the heads up, karlof1.

Is the text in Russian? No. So that is not the Russian version change.

Is the technology distinct? No, the same central servers with big data statistical analysis.

A different spy agency runs it? Yes! The Russian spooks instead of 5 eye spooks.

--

https://gnupg.org/

As some of you may know, the technical folks behind Signal, WhatsApp, Telegram, and all the rest of social+crypto, as well as the establishment crypto community spent nearly 2 decades pooh poohing Public Key Crypto and its poster child GPG.

Their goal, as clearly announced, was not to provide GPG level privacy and security. No, the stated goal was to get "as many people as possible to regularly use cryptography". When faced with criticism that Facebook, Google, Twitter, and related companies can not be trusted to run the servers that these mobile apps talk to, we are given "assurances" by individuals who have spent their entire adult life in employee of Big Tech.

"Perfect is the enemy of the good" was one of the weaponized memes used to argue against using GPG. GPG is not backdoored, you see.

Use GPG. It will not be convenient, but it is not compromised.

Posted by: BemusedDragon | Jan 15 2021 20:31 utc | 119

@ fnord | Jan 15 2021 16:45 utc |

I don't use any of those social media data harvesting cesspools you are holding up and bloviating about,

but I do have a decent BS detector.

Maybe you have facile explanations for these stories too...looks like blm-antifa/Fake media bad actors/provocateurs were in up to their eyeballs stirring up/creating the "insurrection" narrative at the Capital bldg on Jan 6.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/huge-cnn-npr-reporter-jade-sacker-embedded-antifa-leader-john-sullivan-siege-us-capitol-cheered-inciting-riot-video/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/fbi-arrests-antifa-leader-john-sullivan-utah-storming-us-capitol/

Posted by: gm | Jan 15 2021 20:49 utc | 120

BLM instigator and overall shit disturber John Sullivan has been arrested by FBI for participating in the "riot" on the 6th. Shocked I am, just Shocked. All those posers saying BLM, ANTIFA are good little boys and girls, check your pants cause they are on fire.

Here is Jack laying out the big picture for the censorship role he plans for the punters.

https://breaking911.com/breaking-twitter-insider-secretly-records-ceo-jack-dorsey-detailing-censorship-agenda/

Posted by: Tom | Jan 15 2021 20:57 utc | 121

So now that BLM and ANTIFA have been implicated with the events of Jan 6th in DC, can we just say it was a mostly peaceful protest and everyone can go on to the next manufactured crisis?

Posted by: Tom | Jan 15 2021 21:12 utc | 122

@Tom | Jan 15 2021 21:12 utc | 122

Yes, this one is a candidate
https://gab.com/M2Madness/posts/105559930294769368

I am wondering how that is going to look ...

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 15 2021 21:28 utc | 123

@fnord/ re: gm | Jan 15 2021 20:49 utc | 120

Sorry to have snapped at you there fnord. Its just that by now it should be drop dead obvious to everyone that Facebook and Twitter are valuable well-protected weapons the Borg deploys the world over for regime change and color revolution, including here in the US.

Posted by: gm | Jan 15 2021 22:25 utc | 124

@gm, 124 and 120

I'm not entirely sure what the presence of an ideologically confused leftist at an otherwise exclusively right-wing, self-identified conservative, protest is supposed to prove. You'll have to walk me through that. Seems like another case of the conservative media grasping at straws and putting the right fnords in the right sequence to get the noggins of conspiracy theorists joggin' in the intended direction. Already conservatives have primed themselves to believe "antifa" actually did the riot at the Capitol, so just putting "Capitol riot" and "antifa" in the same headline is all they need to confirm their priors.

The "color revolution" talk here has always been something that seemed like conspiracy theory to me. Does the US sponsor "pro-democracy" movements abroad to undermine its official enemies? Yeah. But there are also contradictions in every society between order-givers and order-takers, and these contradictions manifest in protest movements, explosions, and so on, without the need for nefarious foreign actors behind the scenes pulling strings (usually these come after). The "color revolution" talk seems like the obverse of liberal "Russiagate" hysteria and conspicuously sides with established powers (although not the established powers arbitrarily identified as "the establishment" by the conspiracy theory).

Posted by: fnord | Jan 15 2021 23:10 utc | 125

Mark Dice on FBI visiting/wrist-slapping blm-antifa Jan 6 insurrection ORGANIZERS/PLANNERS (on FACEBOOK) beforehand [but letting them go anyway?].

Also talks about Facebook CEO Sheryl SandBORG trash-talking and internet trench warfare w/GAB & Parler.

Also non-Borg [I hope (?)] options to FACE-TWITT who can't kick the habit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtLnrRHw9PA (9:17 min)

Posted by: gm | Jan 15 2021 23:11 utc | 126

err... *for those* who can't kick the habit:

Posted by: gm | Jan 15 2021 23:21 utc | 127

Posted by: gm | Jan 15 2021 23:21 utc | 127

"Damn spell-check!", Am I right?

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 16 2021 0:40 utc | 128

@ Bemildred | Jan 16 2021 0:40 utc | 128

Auto-correct is worse/more distorted, for some reason, on my Android phone than on my laptop...or maybe my thumbs are just fatter on the phone keypad.

Posted by: gm | Jan 16 2021 0:51 utc | 129

BemusedDragon @119--

The text can be in whatever language in which you want to communicate. I have friends who write in Russian and Arabic along with English. Snowden says there're no back doors as do VK's designers, and they have cred where anything American fails. The primary object of my ire is the Outlaw US Empire, so VK serves my purpose whereas any US-based social media doesn't--can't might be a better negative since they're all prompted to censor the sort of criticism I voice.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 16 2021 1:03 utc | 130

There is no insurrection in the US (of America). And yes Tulsi is putting herself forward in other ways, mostly to 'sell the vaccine' from my point of view. I'm disappointed.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Jan 16 2021 3:03 utc | 131

Max Blumenthal, a DC resident and journalist, covered the Jan 6th march on the capital on his twitter feed which I watched live. Blumenthal investigated James Sullivan, his ties to previous protests and family background, before Sullivan’s recent arrest.


Chaos Agent for whom?

Posted by: suzan | Jan 16 2021 3:06 utc | 132

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 15 2021 21:28 utc | 123

And they had to vet those army folks just to make sure they weren't Trump supporters. Hope they checked if they belonged to BLM or ANTIFA.

Posted by: Tom | Jan 16 2021 3:27 utc | 133

Someone with a better knowledge of history can fill in the details (karlof?). Castro was, of course, the rebel leader. The raid on the barracks at Moncada was the defining event for the movement. It turned into disaster quickly, but it showed a lot of nerve. I don't remember if Castro was captured at Moncada or sometime later. A military person was getting ready to execute Castro on the spot. An officer intervened to stop the execution. The officer explained his rationale, " You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea". Castro was put on trial and found guilty. When the verdict was read, Castro famously (and defiantly), declared, "History will absolve me.".

Posted by: stratus | Jan 16 2021 3:46 utc | 134

@ suzan | Jan 16 2021 3:06 utc | 132..

thanks.. i was looking at that earlier today... i read the gateway pundit and intercept article on it... hard to know what is up with that... bottom line for me is i don't think there is a whole lot of difference between the jan 6 event and the various protests the past year, although they are described very differently... the one big difference i would say if i was to be bold is that the capital building event looks like the markings of a set up by players who knew the advantages they could get from allowing it to happen... i wish i didn't feel this way, but i do... allowing certain things to happen, to take advantage of the situation is what it looks like to me.. but this makes the whole event look a lot more ugly from a different angle then the way the media and democrat party has made it out to be..

Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 4:37 utc | 135

Below are quotes from Reuters postings about Trump and the protestors

"
Trump had wanted to join the thousands of hardcore followers who assembled at Capitol Hill on Jan. 6. He told aides in the days leading up to the rally that he planned to accompany them to demonstrate his ire at Congress as it moved to certify Democrat Joe Biden’s November election victory.

But the Secret Service kept warning him that agents could not guarantee his safety if he went ahead, according to two people familiar with the matter. Trump relented and instead hunkered down at the White House to watch television images of the mob rioting he is accused of triggering.
"

"
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - United by political grievances, they came in costumes, snapping selfies, calling themselves patriots. Some came armed for battle and planning for “war.”

As authorities begin to charge the rioters in the Jan. 6 siege of the U.S. Capitol, court documents paint a picture of a diverse mob that included both citizens with mainstream careers - police officers, a flower shop owner, a state lawmaker, military veterans, even an Olympic medalist - as well as Americans on the fringe. One was a member of the Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group. Another had a caveman costume beneath a police bulletproof vest. One served time in prison for attempted murder.

They traveled from as far as Hawaii to join the protest of Congress certifying Democrat Joe Biden’s election win, which Republican President Donald Trump has falsely claimed resulted from widespread election fraud. Some brought all manner of weapons or explosives, underscoring the grave threat from an insurrection that resulted in five deaths, including a police officer, and dozens of injuries.
"

5 more days. Has the Fat Lady sung on Donald Trump's major antics as #45?....understanding that he is poisoning as much shit as he can on the way out behind the scenes.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 16 2021 7:01 utc | 136

Wokemons ain't nothing but hound dogs.

They can't see, hear, or think on their own. They are profoundly uncurious and uncritical. And that's why their minds must be directed by OTHERS who offer courses in Critical Theory. Critical Theory fills the void of those who can't be independently critical of anything. They must be TOLD and DIRECTED what to revere and what to revile.

That's why the current progs are just a bunch of hound dogs. With no agency and agenda of their own, they rely on the master to give them the scents to follow. Once hound dogs are given the scent, they go after it with single-minded devotion, blind obsession. But what is the ultimate reason for this behavior? Because dogs evolved to seek approval of the top dog(which is human master). Bloodhounds want approval for having tracked down the scent. They will go to hell and back to follow the scent to win approval, and that attainment of approval is what gives meaning to their lives. Likewise, nothing is more satisfying to a wokemon hound than having hunted down 'bad thought' and being approved by his/her master.

So many go to college, and they're dummies. Far fewer people should attend. But as colleges now fill up with dummies(made worse with aff-act), there are many more dummies for radical or Jewish professors to manipulate into frenzy. As these stupidents can't really think, they prefer ide0logical dogma or downright idolatry. Then, all you need are a few catechisms, slogans, and banners.

Just like bloodhounds, they need others to provide them with scents to track down. Then, they chase after Fugitive Thoughts that don't want to be chained to the plantation filled with cotton-picking narratives.
Of course, the wokemon hounds often do get out of control. It's like bloodhounds are so obsessed with tracking down the scent that they will look for the scent ANYWHERE and sometimes run in the wrong direction. Likewise, once a wokemon hound is provided with scent of 'racism', 'antisemitism', or 'homophobia', he or she will try to sniff it out of ANYTHING he or she comes across. THAT one 'scent' becomes an all-consuming passion. And when he or she finds it, he or she runs off to the authority and says, "LOOK, I FOUND IT", and expects a pat on the head by the higher authority. Good doggy, and here's a biscuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTio206JVQw&ab_channel=JamesBigler

What we should do is toy with the 'scent' and make the hounds retrace it to their master. The Jewish master says go after 'racism', and the bloodhounds come for us. But if we label Zionism and Jewish Power as 'racism' and supremacism, the hounds may well circle back to their master.
This is why Jews fear BDS. It leads the scent right back to Jews. Jews say 'racism bad, so go after white racists', but BDS says 'look, Jews reek of racism and supremacism in the Middle East'.

As long as Jews are providing scents to woke hounds to track down fugitive white thought, it is utterly useless when whites say nothing but 'Muh Israel'. When someone smeared scent on you and then provided the scent to dogs to track you down and rip you to pieces, the last thing you should be doing is praising him to high heaven. You should be clever and smear him with the very scent that he provided to the hounds.

The current wokemonism is all about Dollars and Scents. Jews got the dollars and provide the scents to the idiot hounds who can't think on their own. They must be provided by others as to what to worship, what to hate, what to attack, and etc.
What is a FOOL? A fool is someone who is told two contradictory statements but mindlessly accepts both. It's no wonder so many wokemon fools claim to oppose inequality but have no problem with the supremacism of Jews. Only a fool would believe in BLM, but fools will be fools.

Posted by: Andrea Ostrov | Jan 16 2021 8:15 utc | 137

If you want know where things will be going under Biden, look to China, says Simone Gao.

Alibaba= Amazon
Baidu= Google
Tencent= Facebook+Twitter+major fake news agencies

She also covers the Jan 6 blm-antifa [Borg]agent provocatuer John Sullivan's actions/video evidence at the Capital.

https://youtu.be/sErpFVlN5KU (25 min)

[Gao's views represent factions (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Falun Gong, etc.) opposed to the ruling faction in China]

Posted by: gm | Jan 16 2021 8:55 utc | 138

@fnord #6:

Greenwald was making a claim with no factual basis, talking out of his ass. Posts scraped from Parler show not only that planning for the protests was occurring on Parler (as well as Facebook and Twitter), but that Parler users were posting videos to the platform of themselves at the Capitol.

So the protesters were organizing on Parler, Facebook and Twitter, and they were posting videos of themselves at the Capitol to Parler, Facebook and Twitter, but somehow only Parler has to be banned. Makes sense. Not.

#125:

The "color revolution" talk here has always been something that seemed like conspiracy theory to me.

“I know nothing about color revolutions, therefore color revolutions do not exist.”

Posted by: S | Jan 16 2021 9:39 utc | 139

Banning the President w/ Glenn Greenwald & Zephyr Teachout (15 min — Bad Faith podcast hosted by Briahna Joy Gray and Virgil Texas).

Posted by: S | Jan 16 2021 9:47 utc | 140

Video: A message from Joe Biden to the 30,000 National Guard Members in Washington DC.

"Clap for that... you stupid bastards. Man, you are a dull bunch. You must be slow."

- Joe Biden

https://gab.com/KanekoaTheGreat/posts/105564240989248502

This guy is making friends everywhere.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 16 2021 13:48 utc | 141

@fnord #108
You said:

Another irony of the conservative backlash to tech companies refusing to do business with conservative causes: if the conservatives got their way and got rid of Section 230, Amazon hosting Parler via AWS would mean that Amazon would be on the hook for any illegal content Parler might host. That's a good example of how conservatives today will cut off their nose to spite their face. Under a framework of private property rights, where no one has the duty to provide a service to anyone else (medical, technical, or otherwise), Parler getting the boot is the predictable outcome.

Conservatives would be perfectly fine with losing that "nose" since the liberals have the entire elephant of illegal content.

What conservatives want is an equal playing field.

The field today is enormously skewed liberal - from Democratic party apparatchiks running content moderation to armies of cancel culturists running around thumbing down anything they don't like.

Removing Section 230 means tech giants no longer have a "get of out jail free" card to do half-assed, half-hearted, prejudicial jobs of being responsible.

Section 230 made sense in the era of BBS's - it makes ZERO sense with monopolist/monopsonist tech companies.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 16 2021 14:22 utc | 142

Re: "Clap for that... you stupid bastards. Man, you are a dull bunch. You must be slow."
- Joe Biden

Woh! And watch how Jill Biden's smiling expression barely changes...weird.

Google search is blocking it, so that's confirmation enough for me it must be real.

Google search gives two hits

Posted by: gm | Jan 16 2021 14:33 utc | 143

Removing section 230 would be immensely damaging to the conservative cause, because conservatives rely so heavily on libel, slander, ritual invocations of fake history and fake economics...There are sections of the self-named left that rely heavily on mindless abuse, but it would take Solomon to decide this isn't true of the indignant conservative. Somebody being able to sue a carrier for claiming falsely that J.K. Rowling is endangering the lives of transexuals isn't going to change much, but being able to sue a carrier for reporting that Dominion Voting Systems was a plot by Hugo Chavez, oh, yeah, that's change real politics.

This is of course why Section 230 should be abolished. Either the social media giants are common carriers who don't sell advertising, sell data and basically use private citizens to create an ocean of content *or* they should be liable for their actions. Some hypocrite earlier pretended that social media monopolies should be regulated. Quite aside from the narrow legal definition of monopoly, it is never a principle of conservatism that "monopolies" not only should not be regulated, but in certain cases unregulated monopoly should be enforced, namely, for trademarks, logos, copyrights and patents (including patents for developing an invention not for the actual invention!) It is a common ploy for lying conservatives to pretend that property rights are not the definition of humanity in conservatism in general. It's only the fascist variant that holds the state must be able to kick owner ass in the name of the war-making power of the state.

The claim conservatives want an equal playing field is a deliberate lie, so far as I can tell. (It is barely possible someone young and ignorant enough simply has no clue.) The Fairness Doctrine once held that natural monopolies on broadcast frequencies meant the state could regulate the content of political speech on the TV and radio media. But conservatives never want an equal playing field, so they deregulated that and did away with the Fairness Doctrine, which mandated an equal playing field, that is, equal time, for different political views. Also, religious programming is deemed a public service, against all reason, which in addition to the entirely unmerited tax privileges, gives "religious" figures, frauds everyone of them, an unequal playing field. Conservatives are the most contemptible when they pretend to virtue. (Admittedly, their love of gloating over being "winners" when they *aren't* is a close second.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 16 2021 14:46 utc | 144

@Cyril #59
@William Gruff #98
Sorry, but if you think any government can't suppress a very large percentage of its people for a very long time, you're deluded.
Turkey has suppressed its 20%+ Kurd minority since it was created as an Islamic crusader state.
Rome's population was about 30% to 40% slaves.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 16 2021 17:20 utc | 145

Signs of the times:

Just days before a new president enters the White House, promising to unify a dangerously divided country, the state of the union can perhaps be judged by this metric: The U.S. is facing a shortage of bulletproof vests, gas masks and ballistic helmets.

Some retailers of protective equipment have seen a fivefold increase in sales of military-grade defensive gear, leading to empty shelves and waiting lists. A retailer in Oregon has sold out of decontamination wipes designed to remove chemical agents such as pepper spray. Customers cleaned out thousands of pieces of body armor from a store in Texas as soon as they went on sale.

After a year of civil unrest, the U.S. is running low on body armor and gas masks

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 16 2021 18:25 utc | 146

@ Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 4:37 utc | 135

”…if i was to be bold is that the capital building event looks like the markings of a set up by players who knew the advantages they could get from allowing it to happen... i wish i didn't feel this way, but i do.”

I tend to agree with Paul Jay’s analysis that the storming of the Capitol was allowed to happen to get rid of Drumpf from the duopoly’s proscenium; and to chastise his enthusiastic followers, most of whom are non violent but justifiably angry, with admonishments like, Are you really a Christian and or a ‘patriot’ if you condone this violence?

The crowd surge imo was used to camouflage the more skilled elements who were infiltrated, those who rappelled the outside walls and broke windows to let others in, etc. I am uncertain re the charges of kidnapping and assasination, but it’s not beyond reason. It mimics previous threats against governor of Michigan and this is a very violent culture. Given the relentless mis and dis information 24/7/365 and the advanced state of decay of the system in general, most people probably believe their ‘own’ thoughts as true. This holds for both “sides.”

The pipsqueak chaos agent — the self-proclaimed jouralist/activist who says he has “no ideology,” while knowingly filmed yelled “burn it all down” and offered a weapon, a knife, to another protester. He was exiled last summer from BLM protests/riots because he was a suspected provocateur.

Yet in the storming of the Capitol he was (conveniently?) filmed in action by a hired documentarian. Who wanted to make sure that John’s incendiary actions and alleged association with antifa was filmed? This is live scripting beyond credibility. Two birds, one stone.

Someone asked earlier why the Ds, who have all three branches of federal government as of Jan 20th if all goes as planned, "Why don’t they simply step back and allow the R party to continue to self destruct instead of collaborating with McConnell and rescuing the party?" The answer imo is, they work for the same class of people, donors.

Keeping the ping-pong theatrics of left-right in place serves to distract people from the top-down dynamic at play. Without a clear understanding on the facts of the challenges faced, nothing will change for the better for most people.

With this act, the Trumpists are made to look so authoritarian that the authoritarianism of corporate Ds (with R collaboration) is made to seem righteous — not.

As some would say, more shitshow as the ship sinks into chaos, misery and confusion.

Posted by: suzan | Jan 16 2021 18:36 utc | 147

So the protesters were organizing on Parler, Facebook and Twitter, and they were posting videos of themselves at the Capitol to Parler, Facebook and Twitter, but somehow only Parler has to be banned. Makes sense. Not.

These corporations - corporate owners of private property - have policies which dictate how their customers use their services. If the terms of service are breached - a violation of a contract freely signed by Parler and others - then the owner of the property has a right to refuse service. So einfach ist das. Find me a conservative who doesn't agree to this setup, and I'll find you a pinko commie freedom hating bastard.

Twitter and Facebook have their own infrastructure (i.e., their own property), but also content moderation policies that don't violate their cloud providers' TOS when they rely on them for content delivery. Parler, by their own admission, did not have any such policy. Nor did they have contingency plans for what to do when their violation of the contract they signed with Amazon meant the termination of Amazon's services to them. Facebook and Twitter do ban illegal content, Parler didn't. That was the difference. Conservatives fucked up, violated contracts, couldn't develop a contingency plan, and now they're whining all over the great conservative stereopticon to fool people who fear "Big Noun" more than they fear the organized capitalist class power that conservative causes represent (in both the Republican and Democrat parties).

AWS was not the only option in the market. They do not have a monopoly on server space. It would have been ironic if these American nationalists on Parler had to rely on Chinese or Russian cloud providers, but those options were there, as was an investment in their own infrastructure. Why not sell the brand to a conservative angel investor, like a member of the Mercer family, who could have provided the funds for physical hardware? My only guess is that the people in charge of Parler were incompetent at both tech and business (and the revelation of their lack of a content moderation policy to Kirtaner suggests ignorance of the law as well). Can't feel sorry for these dumb asses when left-wing hackers - such as Alexandra Elbakyan and the Pirate Bay founders - can get around organized and international state power to provide their services. Parler couldn't even circumvent Bezos. It's sad, and it speaks to the technical incompetence of the Parler people more than it speaks of the power of Bezos or the latest Big Noun bogeyman "Big Tech".

Posted by: fnord | Jan 16 2021 19:43 utc | 148

suzan | Jan 16 2021 18:36 utc | 147.. thanks suzan... i pretty much agree with you.. i can't add to it!

@ here is what my friend said about the issue of fb, twitter and etc censoring people... i happen to agree with him too..

"well everyone's arguing about whether the censorship is right. and they're not questioning whether we should just use systems that aren't vulnerable to censorship in the first place."
"it's actually a lot like the whole "big cities" issue, where the bugmen are being forced into cuck muzzles, and businesses are being throttled by tyranical maniacs. this is what we get for not favoring small communities with localized decision making authority."

Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 20:25 utc | 149

one more quote "for a free speech system to work, it musn't be centrally owned and operated, it needs to interoperate between distributed nodes in the same way."

Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 20:26 utc | 150

okay - the last one.. i am giving them to you in the wrong order..
"the parler thing is just dumb. a free speech platform hosted on amazon web services? that's just silly, and anyone in tech knows it. so while it looks like a censorship issue, it's as much a tech mindset issue
the actual problem is that centralized platforms are vulnerable to centralized takedown. the only way anything survives attack on the internet is decentralization. email is like that, you can't just prevent someone from using email. you can't take down email."

Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 20:27 utc | 151

Bemildred @146

Shops in my area, and even the Walmarts, are completely out of stock on ammunition. Perhaps it is the toilet paper panic revisited?

Anyway, I am a packrat and have been saving my brass for some time, and I was able to score some primers and bare bullets at one of the shops. I've dusted off my old reloading press and powder trickler and stuff so I will press a few hundred rounds tomorrow and hit the shooting range with them to see if I still have the touch. I'll report how many misfires I make!

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 21:46 utc | 152

56th Stryker Brigade Combat Team

229th Brigade Engineer Battalion

160th Engineer Company

261st Theater Tactical Signal Brigade

198th Expeditionary Signal Battalion

262nd Component Repair Company

177th Fighter Wing (F-16 fighter jets with air-to-air combat capabilities)

105th Airlift Wing

174th Attack Wing (drones)

166th Security Forces Squadron,

Who's a popular guy?

The guy that those dudes are here for,

That's who.

Posted by: Josh | Jan 17 2021 0:11 utc | 153

@c1ue | Jan 16 2021 17:20 utc | 145

Sorry, but if you think any government can't suppress a very large percentage of its people for a very long time, you're deluded .... Turkey has suppressed its 20%+ Kurd minority since it was created as an Islamic crusader state. Rome's population was about 30% to 40% slaves.

First, do you realize what you are saying? By mentioning the Turks' successful suppression of their Kurds (20% of the population), or that 40% of Rome's population were slaves, you imply that the future of the US is one of violent repression. Very violent: the Roman Republic experienced three uprisings of the slaves in 50 years. The third one, led by Spartacus, involved 120,000 rebels and was truly threatening. So dangerous was it that Rome decided to teach the slaves a lesson: Pompey (The Great) crucified 5000 of them, and Crassus crucified another 6000 along the major road into Rome, the Via Appia. Imagine seeing the long lines of men on crosses, dying in extreme agony, as you approach the shining city. Is this what you predict for the US?

(By the way, the crucification of the slaves occurred about 70 years before the birth of Jesus, so the Romans didn't invent that particularly cruel execution method just for him.)

Second, you have no idea what a "very long time" means. Even an extremely violent regime is unlikely to last: the Qin Dynasty died after 15 years; the Third Reich barely survived a decade; in 1972, in El Salvador, Molina stole an election (sound familiar?) and his government was overthrown after seven (7) years.

And third, only with overwhelming support from the people, or with generous "aid" from abroad, could a government that enforces its rule by murdering its people survive even as long as the examples above. Rome and Turkey could be instances of the former, and the various US-supported banana tyrannies are probably examples of the latter. As the recent election proves, the US is split almost 50/50, so forget about overwhelming popular support for an evil government. And which superpower would give military aid to an American regime as violent as it would have to be?

Posted by: Cyril | Jan 17 2021 0:15 utc | 154

First, do you realize what you are saying? By mentioning the Turks' successful suppression of their Kurds (20% of the population), or that 40% of Rome's population were slaves, you imply that the future of the US is one of violent repression. Very violent: the Roman Republic experienced three uprisings of the slaves in 50 years. The third one, led by Spartacus, involved 120,000 rebels and was truly threatening. So dangerous was it that Rome decided to teach the slaves a lesson: Pompey (The Great) crucified 5000 of them, and Crassus crucified another 6000 along the major road into Rome, the Via Appia. Imagine seeing the long lines of men on crosses, dying in extreme agony, as you approach the shining city. Is this what you predict for the US?


Posted by: Cyril | Jan 17 2021 0:15 utc | 154

---------------


Times have changed, you can't actually crucify 6000 along, say, the Washington beltway, these days. Well you could but it would have the opposite effect intended by the likes of Crassus

No


Why? Because we're the good guys, the shining (moral) city on the hill, and the acceptable definition of what constitutes "good" has changed quite a bit since Roman times.

What you do instead is create facilities in places like say Guantanamo Bay, Bagram Airbase and of course Abu Ghraib where you conduct torture.

Of course you don't call it torture , you're not a Roman after all, nor do you call them "torture facilities" because what you do there cannot be acknowledged as torture. So you use euphemisms like "enhanced interogation" or "harsh questioning", cos remember, unlike the people we fight, we're moral.

Then you allow details to leak out over time. This is important. This is your modern Appian Way Crucifix. The details MUST be later "leaked", otherwise what's the point, right?

It sure ain't the info the tortured tell you because the tortured will tell you anything you want if you torture them enough.

Details like how many times certain prisoners were waterboarded. Details like that a prisoner had his prepubescent son's testicles crushed in front of him.
Details like a prisoners wife had to watch her young child anally raped.
Details like forcing different prisoners to sexually abuse each other

Make sure to include photos so people know exactly what you're doing


The great thing is having organised the infrastructure and encouraged the abusers to abuse you can then pretend to be moral by launching investigations into abuse allegations and when the reports are released they will contain all the useful details like how many prisoners had completely unrepairable anal prolapse damage due to repeated anal insertion of feeding apparatus during hunger strike. Hunger strikes they reluctantly conducted as as the only means of protest they had concern ing the appalling conditions and treatment of they were recieving.

And the media circus surrounding all of this?

THAT is your modern Appian Way. That is your your crucifix of warning to the slaves, how you show what happens to those who cause too much trouble

The modern day Crassus' can do it all while pretending to abhor all of it

And the modern day Crassus can even ask his media friends to periodically "find" new "revelations" and can then publicly comb over the whole sordid affairs once more, just to keep it fresh in the mind of the slaves.

Rinse.and.repeat

Posted by: Triden | Jan 17 2021 1:11 utc | 155

@141 Norwegian & @143 gm

That's a clip from 2017, and it's on YouTube:
Joe Biden Calls military "stupid bastards" - Jan 12, 2017

Start at 1:45. It was just ol' crass Joe being uncouth and trying to be funny. As he starts to regain momentum after it, his wife does look slightly uncomfortable, but I'm guessing the rest of the video smooths over that little humorous jest that may - or may not - have fallen flat. The soldier behind didn't look too pleased, but I don't know what the audience felt. I don't have the stomach to watch any more of it.

Soldiers have to put up with civilians and dumbshit politicians who say crass and insulting things that could get you killed in other circumstances - but soldiers know that politicians don't have a clue about those other circumstances, because they all evaded any real service.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 17 2021 1:12 utc | 156

Point being: The Empire has already passed the "Crucifixion on the Appian Way" stage

It IS that violent. It just presents it differently

Posted by: Triden | Jan 17 2021 1:14 utc | 157

@152 William Gruff

You can find ammo online. My local stores have essentially been out of it since last spring.

It's the age we live in - the supply chain is online now.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 17 2021 1:29 utc | 158

I realise the neolib fishwraps gain little traction at MoA & fair enough too since they publish a mostly unadulterated tureen of twaddle.
Still it is essential to read at least one of 'em if only to get a handle on the deceit de jour, if we don't know what that is how can we counter it?

For example the NYT is currently running a story on the Executive Actions creepy Joe plans to sign as soon as he gets back from his inauguration.
Hey I seem to remember that the dims whinged no end about the executive decrees orangeutan signed off on early in his prezdency. Said that they were undemocratic, dictatorial or somesuch.
If so what's the difference dims?
Some of the will appeal or appall depending on what yer stance on immigration and climate change is. The NYT briefly mentions an extension of the eviction ban & harassment over student loan debts, but that is nothing as eventually rents & loans will have to be paid in full.
So far the average amerikan has received about the same in Covid relief for the whole of 2020 as my Australian son-in-law cops every fortnight and he's still getting 20 hours a week work.
Hell come to think of it I was granted NZD $3200 or USD $2,2800 at the start of the first kiwi lockdown and I'm a superannuitant who does as little as possible as long as possible nowadays.

As far as I can tell both parts of the amerikan empire party are under strict orders from their sponsors aka Big Corpa, not to let it be known to the great unwashed that it is indeed possible to hand out 'something for nothing' as both they and their Capitol Hill marionettes refer to providing much needed relief to all citizens. I'd reckon that the sponsors have calculated that the more of that the hoi polloi cop, the less free handouts will be available to them.

You can see the results of the huge corporate handouts every time yer forced to consider Elon Musk's greasy jaapie visage.

Thanks to Yahoo Finance
Jan 16, 2020 Tesla Inc was valued at $98.75 per share
Jan 15, 2021 Tesla Inc shares are averaging a mere $852.00 USD per share. WTF! They must have sold big mobs of electric cars in 2020 eh? Ummm no and in fact if one were to take into account Bolivia's return to democracy , the odds of Tesla/Musk still obtaining an inexpensive consistent source of lithium for Tela batteries has gone down the gurgler.
So a probable decrease in profits and Tesla gets an 8000% increase in value. The only explanation can be that as all humans tend to do with an unexpected windfall, the elites cash rich from dim & rethug support for them during Covid, have decided to take a punt on Tesla.

So as expected same old same old. Biden has murmured about repealing the last round of tax cuts the orangeutan gifted the elite gang, but he qualified that by pointing out such measures could only be achieved by legislation getting through the house and the senate, that could be a long ways off if ever.

I cannot believe how stupid the DC crews imagine everyone else to be. The lack of readies currently circulating in the retail economy where 99% of humans live, means that everyone can see that a useful payout to amerikans would stimulate the economy without being in the least inflationary - unlike the massive elite handouts which as we can see in the case of Tesla, have caused massive asset inflation and asset inflation is the most problematic form of inflation as it isn't the result of any increase in productivity.
Jo/Joe Citizen knows the government can just print more money when it wants to as it saw the trillions of dollars handed to the 1% with the CARES Act.

If the dims & their bosses are too stupid and cruel to see what the end result of such an apathetic response to the pain most of their citizens are enduring, history will see the so-called 'storming of the Capitol' as a mere precursor to something much larger & far more enduring.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 17 2021 1:54 utc | 159


@ James

distributed systems are generally more sustainable and equitable ... also a pipe dream until big changes come

I don’t use Facebook or twitter to send out, just to take in. Here’s a mix of songs and sounds from an old friend’s retweet you might be interested in, “Quiet Please”

https://twitter.com/Harmony_Holiday/status/1333037303002849280

Posted by: suzan | Jan 17 2021 3:29 utc | 160

@ 160 suzan.. thanks.... the music is fun... some marvin gaye, and not sure who that is singing 'don't explain' a song billie holliday made famous... cecile mcloren salvant maybe? sounds like someone more out the coltrane! - these mixes are fun.. maybe he comes later.. into this for 8 minutes.. i never listen to them.. i feel like i am in a blindfold test and it is fun... these folks are just trying to catch up to gil scott heron! so much great music out their...

my friend who was telling me what i quoted above - he shared this twitter pic which also sums it up..

https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/1350457431537692677

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2021 4:07 utc | 161

That's a clip from 2017, and it's on YouTube:
Joe Biden Calls military "stupid bastards" - Jan 12, 2017

Start at 1:45. It was just ol' crass Joe being uncouth and trying to be funny. As he starts to regain momentum after it,
Posted by: Grieved | Jan 17 2021 1:12 utc | 156

With all due respect, dear Grieved, you are a “lying dog-faced pony soldier”, and on statistical evidence, "you look fat". On the bright side, I am not familiar with any video of the President-elect showing how he tries to straighten, pull his stomach in and push forward his chin, a veritable copy of Mussolini:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw2wNctdhcY

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 17 2021 4:36 utc | 162

Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 20:27 utc | 151

I completely agree with your friend about distribution of services, centralized systems are great for accumulating wealth and control, but they are also brittle and full of bottlenecks. None of these new "web services" does anything much more than plain old email, but they cannot monopolize email, and they do love their monopolies. No centralized services, not monopolies.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 17 2021 8:42 utc | 163

"living in america is like being born into a super rich family that forces you to sleep in a box outside"

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 17 2021 8:47 utc | 164

@Grieved | Jan 17 2021 1:12 utc | 156

Thanks for digging up a YT source for that Biden 'stupid bastards' ~3min clip.

From the description box for that YT:

Vice President Joe Biden, recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom calls A room full of servicemen and servicewomen at an undisclosed location in southwest Asia stupid bastards in March 2016. A real class act.

'Somewhere' in SW Asia, in Mar 2016, likely means an operating base in N. Iraq, or Syria areas bordering Turkey and/or Jordan. All pretty bleak non-touristy hellholes at the time.

If Biden had to take along with him a 'handler'/nanny [ie. wife Jill], even back then, it suggests to me he was already heading down the road to Alzheimer's city back in early 2016.

Posted by: gm | Jan 17 2021 10:55 utc | 165

Quite an excellent and very readable piece by Cynthia Chung/Strategic Culture, via ZH, on influences that shaped H.G. Wells development and the directions of his works.

Weaves together many themes (Malthusian philosophy gone mad, rise of official state-sponsored propaganda units in early 20th Century, biowarfare, societal collapse/Great Reset, New World Order, dystopia, evolution of a biologically superior species).

Resonates strongly with events happening now.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/orwellsian-purge-why-hg-wells-shape-things-come-has-arrived-today#comment-stream

Posted by: gm | Jan 17 2021 11:37 utc | 166

@125 fnord "The "color revolution" talk here has always been something that seemed like conspiracy theory to me. Does the US sponsor "pro-democracy" movements abroad to undermine its official enemies? Yeah. But there are also contradictions in every society between order-givers and order-takers, and these contradictions manifest in protest movements, explosions, and so on, without the need for nefarious foreign actors behind the scenes pulling strings (usually these come after). The "color revolution" talk seems like the obverse of liberal "Russiagate" hysteria and conspicuously sides with established powers"

The US state dept. said in spend 5 billion dollars in the decade before the 2014 coup in Ukraine. Add a couple billion from the EU and a couple from Soros' NGOs and you can fund, grow and cultivate opposition from where the color revolutionary foot soldiers can be recruited to challenge and try to oust the targeted sitting government. And considering the 'quality' of the targeted governments in the respective countries you can pick and choose the topics that can be utilized to build up and fuel the opposition. It's not (conspiracy) theory but official policy done in broad daylight with, if needed and availible, some clandestine tricks to maximize chances of succes.

Posted by: GoverntheMente | Jan 17 2021 12:19 utc | 167

Here is a very mixed message video collage, obviously put together by someone with special access to the DC Capitol Hill military Red Zone. Weird.

https://youtu.be/yNGDB-EYvWk (5 min).

Posted by: gm | Jan 17 2021 13:31 utc | 168

@James

Quiet Please track list

Billie Holiday Studio Talk
James Baldwin on Black Speech 
Marvin Gaye Cleo's Apartment 
Carmen McRae Don’t Explain
Amiri Baraka Dark Lady of the Sonnets 
Willie West Greatest Love 
Al Green Simply Beautiful
Mary J Blige PMS
Ornette Coleman Beauty is a Rare Thing
Ellington & Coltrane In a Sentimental Mood
Thelonius Monk Ask Me Now
John Keats Ode on a Grecian Urn (read by Ralph Richardson)
Sun Ra Quiet Ecstasy

Posted by: suzan | Jan 17 2021 15:00 utc | 169

- DO NOT forget that (more than a few) Republicans are responsible for creating these "tensions". See e.g. this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz-zWeqtVo8&t=24s

And then the Republicans are "surprised" that things have gotten "out of hand" ?? The Republicans are now talking about "both sides are responsible" and "we need to cool/lower the temperature".

And then suspending Trump's Twitter account is only adding (more) fuel to the already burning fire. It will convince even the most ardent supporters of democracy that the US is no longer a democracy anymore.

The YouTube video above has convinced me that the US is not only "divided" but that the US is about to break up into 2 or more pieces. This breaking up of the US is likely to come much sooner than expected. Even when there won't be a new (financial) crisis.

I am NOT saying that I want another financial crisis to happen but when I look at a number of (financial) metrics then consider the current (financial) situation to be worse than in 2007 & 2008.

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 17 2021 15:44 utc | 170

@james #151
The point of using cloud is that it allows rapid scalability.
Parler used AWS likely because AWS generates more cloud revenue than the next 3 largest combined.
Yes, there are alternatives: Microsoft, Google, Alibaba, IBM - would any of these really be better?
I would certainly agree that Parler clearly had no contingency plan for cloud outage (or eviction), but that isn't the least bit unusual with internet app startups.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 17 2021 16:17 utc | 171

@Cyril #154
You can try to parse reality all you want - the main point doesn't change: there are many historical instances where large, even huge minorities were suppressed successfully.
Rome didn't fall to slave revolts - it fell to decadence. Nor was there some Cold War patron backing up Rome's finances. Ditto Turkey.

As for your examples of short reigns: they don't prove what you think they prove.

Americans are indoctrinated from birth to think that "gutsy freedom fighters" can win. They can, even without outside support - but only at ginormous human cost and even then it isn't guaranteed.
The American Revolution wasn't some outnumbered ragtag freedom fighters - it was the literally larger population and aggreggately wealthier American colonies and the wealthy oligarchs among them - combined with trans-Atlantic supply lines and European continental threats.

As for support of the population: Sounds nice in theory. Are any of the oppressive regimes in South and Central America boasting of popular support? Every single one of those countries - with the possible exception of Uruguay - is dominated by 200 or so families. Not just dominated, subjugated in a medieval sense.

So my view on "popular support" is: proof is in the pudding.

Is there a huge mass of Americans organizing and arming for outright revolt against the incoming administration?
I see ZERO evidence of that.

I do see a lot of chairborne commandos in their internet chariots spinning in circles though.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 17 2021 16:26 utc | 172

@Debsisdead #159
The stock market has never been about reality - it has always been about perception.
Tesla's performance is a pure technical swindle: low real float combined with very active insider and fund machinations. Driving up the stock price so much enables the bad actors to sell out at a much higher price than if the stock price were allowed to reflect "reality". I believe Tesla market capitalization gained, in 1 day recently, more than the entire combined market cap worths of the existing car makers.
The same dynamic is starting to unfold with bitcoin right now.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 17 2021 16:31 utc | 173

Just watch one of those RINO Rat bastards, *Lindsey Graham*, McCain's soulmate BFF, and avid partner in engineered chaos/regime change/material support of ISIS/AQ 'moderate terrorists' in Ukraine and Syria, twist and squirm and make lame excuses today when Maria Bartiromo skewers him this morning.

Maria Bartiromo Confronts Lindsey Graham on His Broken Promises to Get to the Bottom of the Obamagate/Russiagate Hoax-Scandal — What a Disgrace (VIDEO)

https://youtu.be/hM8Y6LfrJNo

The Borg must have amazing blackmail on Graham to make him dance around so foolishly anytime the need be.

Posted by: gm | Jan 17 2021 16:40 utc | 174

Two notes, because my Something-Is-Wrong-on-the-Internet syndrome is kicking up (due to rainy weather, like arthritis?)

First, the notion that there can be a secessionary movement but the Federal Reserve still creates US currency which is to be used in the breakaway which means there won't be a financial crisis is wrong.

Second, the revolts of the Bacaudae in Gaul, which were basically slave revolts, played an enormous part in the fall of the Western Empire.

Not exactly an error maybe (?,) "decadence" is a buzzword and always needs explaining. The right-wing jackass meaning is loss of manly vigor; loss of martial enthusiasm; debased coinage; sexual depravity like divorce and homosexuality etc. There is a meaningful sense of "decadence," in which a society is characterized by highly regressive taxation; shocking inequalities in wealth; mercenary armies; popular immiseration, or at least a secular decline in real wages; neglect of infrastructure; shortening of life span, birth rates due to poverty of the poor; a privileged position for a particular religion with de facto propaganda (or even police powers) assigned to it. Almost all conservatives here advocate social decay in the objective sense, perhaps especially the ones who pretend Trump was/is an economic "nationalist" or even a "populist." (The right-wing obsession about gold and hard money is about preserving the value of wealth, and thus is all about defending the wealthy, favoring creditors over debtors.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 17 2021 17:26 utc | 175

@ 163 / 164 - bemildrid... thanks... it is the centralized thing that is the problem in that the corp running it can shut it down.. if people want a system they can use collectively, it is going to have to be apart from all this... i am not sure what it would be... i like your quote @ 164... that sums up an important position on where the usa is at today...

@ 169 suzan.. thanks for the track listing.. i have enjoyed it.. i am just listening to the last 4 minutes now.. this is like what a dj would do many years ago, although not quite the same... they would play the whole track, as opposed to blending them... they have taken a lot of great black artists in this example and blended them... are you familiar with robert glaspers work? he is a piano player, producer who has done some interesting work over the past 10-20 years..

@ 171 c1ue... i really think that picture my friend shared sums it up.. here it is again... parlar has to own the cloud, as opposed to running it thru amazon.. or, they are subject to what has happened here.. none of those companies you are list would be any better... they need to own the platform they are relying on others for.. i am not sure how expensive that is, but i don't believe it is! i have a website... it gives me a lot of freedom which apparently parlar didn't have.. i think they didn't think it out..
https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/1350457431537692677

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2021 17:57 utc | 176

re c1ue # 173 who blathered:
"Tesla's performance is a pure technical swindle: low real float combined with very active insider and fund machinations."

Well that is one opinion about tesla's insane stock price jump, one I don't hold myself, but so what? Whether it be a calculated insider trader conspiracy or merely the upshot of giving a tiny group of people so much 'free money' that they treat their windfall like a casino's handout of chips to a high roller, that issue will have no effect on how citizens perceive being left to starve by a gang of corrupt pols whose interest in the hoi polloi is an occassional, always temporary interest that wanes after any election.
Maybe you should have put "point of information mr b" at the top of yer post but then of course since what you have expressed is just your opinion, not information, then that too would be wrong.

I just don't get these types with so little going on in their real lives that they hunt down others' posts searching for anything, no matter its lack of relevance to an issue, just to try and contradict. Why? Seems pitiful, kinda small-dicked to me.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 18 2021 2:36 utc | 177

@c1ue | Jan 17 2021 16:26 utc | 172

there are many historical instances where large, even huge minorities were suppressed successfully. Rome didn't fall to slave revolts - it fell to decadence

How many of those alleged "successful suppressions" of huge minorities were peaceful, and for how long? As I said, the Romans endured THREE rebellions of the slaves in just half a century, the third of which (the one by Spartacus) destroyed several legions and seriously threatened Rome. Is this your definition of "successful suppression"?

Fast forward 2000 years. Half the population in the US may believe the last election was stolen. Do you think they will peacefully acquiesce to what may have been blatant robbery? Some might do so, but I doubt all of them would slink away quietly. It only takes a few million rebels to keep the US boiling violently; Spartacus' 120,000 slaves was only a tiny fraction of the population of the Roman Republic, and that was enough to thoroughly frighten the lords of Rome.

In the US, the suffering directly resulting from potential conflict would be horrible. What's worse, the pain could potentially increase by an order of magnitude.

As is well known, 40% of Americans can't meet a $1000 emergency. Well, that emergency has happened: it is Covid-19 of course. So a large population is or will soon be flat broke and extremely unhappy. If you added these to the people outraged by an election robbery, you'd have an explosive mixture.

"No problem", you may think, "the US can be as cruel as the Romans were and use the army to kill all the rebels". But remember that the rebellion won't be concentrated in little pockets. It will happen nearly everywhere in the US. Which means that military garrisons will have to be stationed everywhere. In that case, what would be left to enforce the global petrodollar?

If the petrodollar collapsed, so would the US standard of living, meaning that even more people would join the rebellion. So the violence would only grow until it consumed the country.

Only people like you would call this "success".

Posted by: Cyril | Jan 18 2021 7:44 utc | 178

Posted by: Cyril | Jan 18 2021 7:44 utc | 178

Well, prediction is a mugs game, but I don't see the US military being of any use at all in domestic affairs. I am sure they would have been brought into play much more than they have already if they could be relied on. All those troops with no bullets is a good indicator of the status of "morale". Of course they can still blow lots of shit up, but they have also made it abundantly clear that that is very expensive and not very useful.

Anyway, I quite agree, the right spark in the right place, someplace with plenty of tinder, and off we go. I don't see the managerial/technical people to run any such suppression/war effort either. Incompetence and disorganization across the board. The pandemic, if nothing else, has made that very clear.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 18 2021 11:27 utc | 179

@Bemildred | Jan 18 2021 11:27 utc | 179

prediction is a mugs game

True. Yet it needs to be done. A people without at least an attempt at foresight is a people without a future.


I am sure [the military] would have been brought into play much more than they have already if they could be relied on.

Good point.


Anyway, I quite agree, the right spark in the right place, someplace with plenty of tinder, and off we go.

Yes. I don't foresee a civil war, but a rebellion is distinctly possible. In fact, the recent civil war talk might have been deliberately started to distract the people from thinking about revolution (the 99% versus the 1%).

Posted by: Cyril | Jan 18 2021 18:17 utc | 180

@ debs...... you seem a bit harsh towards c1ue... i happen to agree with c1ue too though, so maybe i am missing your wider point debs... i agree with your comment @ 159 at the end too though and maybe that is what you want to stay focused on...

i quote you here again -

"If the dims & their bosses are too stupid and cruel to see what the end result of such an apathetic response to the pain most of their citizens are enduring, history will see the so-called 'storming of the Capitol' as a mere precursor to something much larger & far more enduring." that sounds entirely possible and might happen sooner then later too... although people claim others are apathetic, i imagine that would last forever the way the money is being spread around so disproportionately..

Posted by: james | Jan 18 2021 20:21 utc | 181

re james #181

Not that it matters in the slightest but if there were any proof of an insider trading conspiracy over Telsa shares, it is inconceivable that NY DA Cyrus Vance #57 or whatever, wouldn't have sicced a grand jury on to Musk as 1) Musk is no friends of the dims and 2) Vance is rabidly ambitious, so is constantly looking around for bandwagons to increase his profile.

No evidence makes c1ue pointless diversion just another opinion. The reality is that whatever the motive was for this ludicrous & unsustainable rise in tesla's stock price, it could only have happened because the house, the senate & orangeutan chose to give trillions of dollars to the already wealthy elite via the CARES Act plus a coupla other 'stimulus' deals to the same gang.
Therefore my original point stands & I simply cannot comprehend why c1ue & a coupla other dingbats continue to try & correct another's post about something that has no effect on the point the OP's made.
This was made worse by the fact that whatever you may believe is the primary motive for the over investment in Tesla, in the end it is just an opinion none of us have access to the facts of this insane over-pricing. I do not share the POV that amerika's elite are super maths brains and/or artful conspiracists who construct flawless strategies whose reasoning should be unquestioned.
They are just ordinary humans with all the flaws & foible of humans. Some hire quants, but many don't and if you want proof of my contention about people treating money obtained easily more carelessly than that which they had to sweat blood for, drop into the VIP room of your local casino sometime.

Finally presenting an alternative, irrelevant opinion under the guise of a 'correction' is lame arse tossage which diverts attention from the point of another's post - IMO.
Most of the time I ignore such incosequentialities but they are annoying and reveal an ugliness that should not always be ignored.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 20 2021 5:40 utc | 182

@james #176
Having a web site hosted - most likely on a platform like Wordpress or Squarespace - is immensely different than a service with hundreds of thousands to millions of users.
The benefit of the cloud is that a small company can scale up/down its bandwidth and compute usage to reflect its customer base.
In the real world - hosting a web site on your own hardware requires:
1) Buying the hardware. Easy for a web site with 100 visitors - not so easy for a web site getting tens to hundreds of thousands of visitors - especially if it is growing. It takes weeks to buy, configure, test and run multiple new servers vs. the minutes for cloud.
2) Bandwidth. It is not trivial to be able to have sufficient bandwidth, distributed in multiple locations, to handle really large and dynamic loads. Again, cloud makes this immensely easier. Buying T1 and other types of connections is slow and expensive - and difficult to scale down as well (quickly).

I'll give a specific example: For a messaging service like Parler - they need databases to hold the messages for user recovery as well as in the process of transmitting between users. The databases have to be scalable - you can't just stick 100,000 people's messages in the equivalent of a giant Excel sheet. Then you have to be able to find and shift the messages to the right people. With cloud, you build a software engine which runs on a single node and which can access the nosql database you use. This engine can handle X users. When this engine gets near, say, 0.90X users - software code can spin up an identical engine to handle the next X users. If usage drops, scaling down also occurs.
Imagine trying to do that with your own bandwidth and hardware.
That's why even big companies like Twitter and Facebook still use public cloud - while they have sufficient base demand to pay for a core infrastructure of compute/storage/bandwidth, usage still varies significantly so the cloud gets the variability portion.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 20 2021 10:11 utc | 183

@Debsisdead #177
You really are a miserable individual, aren't you?
What I post is factual information - your lack of understanding of it is fine but your interpretation of motivation is just inane.
But I will keep in mind that your own egotism and antisociability in mind in the future - these are clearly indicative of just how (not) educational your commentary is.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 20 2021 10:13 utc | 184

@Cyril #178
Rome lasted 2000 years. The Pharaohs reigned 2500 years. The list goes on and on and on.
And in none of those instances did the "people" rise up and overthrow their oppressors - it was always external entities (like Rome did to Egypt).
As for what you assert to support your case:
For every Republican who thinks 2020 was stolen - there is probably more than 1 Democrat who thinks the same of 2016.
For every welfare recipient (i.e. can't come up with $1000 in an emergency) - I see 75% chance of a Democrat voter.
Now let me ask you this: if you're on welfare - is COVID a negative for you? I think the opposite actually - stimulus checks increase your income.
Please note that I do understand the anger people feel.
What is much less excusable is the failure to understand reality - what needs to happen if real change is to occur.
Being an internet chairborne commando isn't going to change anything.
Nor is turning up to wave a flag at a rally, much less put on bull horns and parade through Congress.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 20 2021 10:20 utc | 185

@james #181
I wouldn't worry about it too much - I sure don't.
Some people are clearly too stupid and lazy to even try to work towards understanding - they require being led like a sheep.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 20 2021 10:22 utc | 186

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 20 2021 10:20 utc | 185

The hydraulic empires are the classic example of that, the endurance in place of bad government. So yeah. It is arguable that the Byzantines were not Rome in the same way that it is arguable that the US hegemony is not the British Empire. Or not.

I dunno if Facebook and the US' bizarre attempt to substitute propaganda for government will rise to that level of control. I suppose we are going to find out. If I had to hazard a guess I expect fragmentation and dissipation going forward for some indefinite time, and then new stuff growing up in the rubble.

I'm on a fixed income and if COVID doesn't kill me, then it hasn't hurt me financially either, far from it. But I avoid "health care" so that helps a lot. The money from Mnuchin has been nice when it shows up. You never know when it's going to show up.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 20 2021 12:00 utc | 187

@c1ue | Jan 20 2021 10:20 utc | 185

Rome lasted 2000 years.

The Roman legions never had to face gunpowder weapons. Those miniskirt-wearing soldiers would not last in today's military environment.

How long has the US been failing in Afghanistan? Eighteen years? A large rebellion in America would be ten times more destructive -- at least -- than the Afghan war. Worse, the troops tied down fighting rebels would not be enforcing the petrodollar. A collapse of that fragile international construct would make the US drastically poorer, which means its citizens would grow angrier and even more rebellious. As I said, only someone like you would call this "success".


The Pharaohs reigned 2500 years.

The Pharaohs never had to face gunpowder weapons either.


The list goes on and on and on.

Okay, name some realms that lasted long while fighting their own people.

Posted by: Cyril | Jan 20 2021 22:11 utc | 188

@Cyril | Jan 20 2021 22:11 utc | 188

Okay, name some realms that lasted long while fighting their own people.

I want to change this slightly: Okay, name some realms that lasted long while fighting a significant percentage of their own people.

You could doubtlessly nitpick that plenty of regimes have been able to suppress minor insurgencies, including the US itself: see the Whiskey Rebellion or Shay's Rebellion. Waco was not exactly an uprising, but the US was successful in applying lethal force to stop it.

No, I want you to name regimes that lasted for long after fighting a large fraction of their population -- as the US would have to do, if the current 50/50 split turned violent, and especially if all the people about to go broke became desperate.

Posted by: Cyril | Jan 20 2021 23:55 utc | 189

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