Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 21, 2021

The Number Of Uyghurs Has Tripled - The U.S. Calls It A Genocide - Propaganda Fails To Explain It

After being bashed with 24/7 "Trump is bad" news we are now punished with 24/7 of "Biden is great" news.

Actions which were an outrage when taken under Trump are now sold as rational endeavors when argued for by Biden acolytes.

To cover for the turnabout media are getting a bit in a twist and have to make up stupid excuses.

Consider this New York Times piece that now justifies a last minute action the former Secretary of State Mike Pompous took when he falsely declared that the Chinese development of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is a 'genocide'.

China’s Oppression of Muslims in Xinjiang, Explained

On the final full day of the Trump presidency, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo declared that China was carrying out a genocide against Uighurs and other Muslim peoples, the toughest condemnation yet of Beijing’s crackdown against its far western region of Xinjiang.
...
The incoming Biden administration has indicated its general agreement with the designation. A spokesman for Joseph R. Biden Jr. said during the presidential campaign last year that Beijing’s policies in the region amounted to genocide.
...
Here’s a look at the Xinjiang region, China’s crackdown there and what the genocide declaration could mean for the global response.

Uh oh - the 'good Biden' endorses something 'bad Trump' has done. Some mumble is needed to explain that!

Thus follows a number of inaccurate descriptions of the historic and current situation in Xinjiang:

Xinjiang, in the far northwestern region of China, has large numbers of Uighurs, Kazakhs and other mostly Muslim groups. It is culturally, linguistically and religiously more similar to Central Asia than the Chinese interior.
...
Uighurs have long bridled at Chinese control of the region, which has seen an influx of ethnic Chinese migrants and an increase in restrictions on local language, culture and religion. Minority groups in Xinjiang say they aren’t given jobs or contracts because of widespread racial discrimination.

The resentment has sometimes boiled over into violence, including attacks on police officers and civilians. In 2009, nearly 200 people, mostly Han Chinese, were killed in riots in Urumqi, the regional capital.

Most of Xinjiang has been under 'Chinese control' for more than 2,000 years. It has always been a mixed region with several ethnic groups including a significant Han population. It has also seen fast population growth caused by high birth rates and migration following strong economic development:

In the early 1800s the population under the Qing (Manchu) Dynasty was roughly 60% Turkic and 30% Han. In 1953, a People’s Republic of China census registered 4.87 million of which 75% were Uyghur and 6% Han. In 1964 the census documented 7.44 million of which 54% were Uyghur and 33% Han. After the beginning of the economic reforms, Xinjiang registered 13.08 million of which 46% were Uyghur and 40% Han. In terms of the 2000 census, Xinjiang’s 18.46 million people are 45.21% Uyghur and 40.57% Han. The current population situation is similar to that of the Qing when many Han lived in the area.

In 1953 there were 3.6 million Uyghur in Xinjiang. In 2,000 there were 8.4 million. Wikipedia says that in 2018 Xinjiang has a total population of 25 million of which 11.3 million are ethnic Uyghur.

It is quite weird to claim that such a consistent population growth of an ethnic group is somehow a 'genocide'.

This sentence from the above quote is especially interesting:

Minority groups in Xinjiang say they aren’t given jobs or contracts because of widespread racial discrimination.

It is followed a few graphs later by this claim:

In addition, the authorities have pushed work programs in Xinjiang, including the transfer of workers within the region and to other parts of China, that critics say most likely involve coercion and forced labor.

Which is it?

Are the Uyghur excluded from labor or are they coerced to labor?

The Times won't explain that contradiction so we will have to do that.

There has been high economic growth in Xinjiang for several decades. The state owned Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, which was founded 64 years ago to develop the region, has seen above 10% growth rates in its industries over several decades.

Some of this growth has been in rural areas with extensive cotton farming. There are also large coal, oil and gas reserves in Xinjiang that have been developed. Another growth factor has been a rapid urbanization within the province.

Cotton farming, unless highly mechanized, requires a lot of seasonal workers to pick the cotton. These often came from Han provinces. A 2009 report in the NYT said:

The first wave of workers has arrived in the annual migration to China’s restive western region of Xinjiang this year to pick cotton, according to a report on Friday by Xinhua, the state news agency.

The workers are mostly ethnic Han and are the first large batch of migrant workers to make the journey to Xinjiang since deadly ethnic rioting broke out this summer.

A Reuters piece from 2014 tried to use the fact that Han migrants came to do such work to justify Islamist terrorism in Xinjiang:

URUMQI, China (Reuters) - Hundreds of migrant workers from distant corners of China pour daily into the Urumqi South railway station, their first waypoint on a journey carrying them to lucrative work in other parts of the far western Xinjiang region.

Like the columns of police toting rifles and metal riot spears that weave between migrants resting on their luggage, the workers are a fixture at the station, which last week was targeted by a bomb and knife attack the government has blamed on religious extremists.

“We come this far because the wages are good,” Shi Hongjiang, 26, from the southwestern metropolis of Chongqing, told Reuters outside the station. “Also, the Uighur population is small. There aren’t enough of them to do the work.”

Shi’s is a common refrain from migrant workers, whose experience finding low-skilled work is very different to that of the Muslim Uighur minority.

Employment discrimination, experts say, along with a demographic shift that many Uighurs feel is diluting their culture, is fuelling resentment that spills over into violent attacks directed at Han Chinese, China’s majority ethnic group.

It is correct that some employers preferred Han workers as they were schooled and spoke the main countrywide language. But the Chinese government had long recognized that a large part of the local rural population was still underemployed and already had taken measures to change that:

The Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, China's prime cotton-growing area, plans to pump some 20 billion yuan ($3.2 billion) into its textile industry to create jobs and maintain social stability, local officials in its Beijing representative office said on Friday.

"The push for textile development will create more jobs in the sector," said Yan Qin, a top official of Urumqi. "It is not only a matter of economic returns and social benefits, but also a political issue."
...
Local officials said the policy focus will favor the underdeveloped southern part of the region. The southern Xinjiang city of Aksu, one of the major cultivation areas, is one area where the government aims to improve employment.

The move is part of Beijing's call to attract more labor-intensive textile manufacturers from the eastern cities to Xinjiang to open up employment opportunities for local people.

In 2016 Reuters reported on the success of Beijng's development policy:

AKSU, China (Reuters) - The Youngor cotton spinning factory is one of the biggest employers in Aksu, an agricultural town on the edge of the Taklamakan desert in China’s restive Xinjiang region.

Youngor, one of China’s largest shirt-makers, opened the plant in 2011 to be closer to the main cotton-growing region in Xinjiang. Soon it will be joined by others: Beijing wants to create 1 million textile jobs in Xinjiang by 2023.
...
Almost all of the 520 employees at the Youngor factory are Uighurs. The average factory floor salary is around 3,000 yuan ($463.18)a month, and comes with food and lodging - compared with roughly 4,000 yuan for textile workers in the southern China factory belt.

“There are still a lot of people to come out of (Xinjiang’s) countryside,” said Xu Zhiwu, general manager at Youngor’s Aksu factory, referring to government data that show 2.6 million rural residents sought work in Xinjiang’s cities in 2014.

Xinjiang Youngor Cotton Spinning Co Ltd, a unit of Youngor Group, is planning to expand its factory, built among apple orchards on Aksu’s outskirts, Xu said.

Beijing's development policies were successful. The seasonal cotton picking campaign is no longer done by Han migrant worker but by locally recruited people:

The replacement of Han labor migrants from eastern China with local ethnic minority laborers who are mobilized through labor transfer schemes is taking place in all cotton-growing regions in Xinjiang. In 2018, of 250,000 cotton pickers in Kashgar Prefecture, 210,900 were locals (via labor transfer policies), 39,100 came from other regions of Xinjiang, and only 6,219 or 2.5 percent hailed from other parts of China.
The report notes the numbers of cotton pickers from other parts of China are declining. In the same year, the number of cotton pickers in Aksu Prefecture who were organized through the labor transfer mechanism increased by 21 percent. In 2020, Aksu needed 142,700 cotton pickers; of them, 124,500 were locally organized (likewise via state-arranged labor transfers).
Karakax County in Hotan Prefecture sent out more cotton pickers mobilized through labor transfer – an increase from 40,600in 2017 to 54,000 in 2018, mobilizing 15.7 percent of its population aged 18-59 years to pick cotton in other regions. A 2020 news article from Aksu explains that counties with more cotton plantations request labor from those with fewer plantations, stating that as a result the region “no longer needs to attract cotton pickers from elsewhere.”

The 'labor transfer policies' are in fact state sponsored local recruitment campaigns for well paid seasonal work. This local recruitment is what the Times calls "coercion and forced labor".

When, years ago, Han migrant workers came to Xinjiang to pick cotton and for other work 'western' media complained and used that to justify Islamist terrorism.

After China introduced a better development policy and the companies started to recruit from the local Uyghur population for cotton picking and other textile industry work the very same 'western' media complain about "coerced labor".

Instead of explaining the successful development the New York Times is using it to argue that an ethnic group, which over the last seven decades more than tripled in size, is under threat of genocide.

There is nothing that China could do to end such silly propaganda.

Posted by b on January 21, 2021 at 19:21 UTC | Permalink

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Spot on. There seem to be two source reports for all the 1 million Ujghurs in prison story.
One by the BBC which claimed satellite evidence of many prisons - but follow the links and many thousands of words and no pictures, maps, grid references or local confirmed details are given - so they have actually one prison confirmed (while implying 3-400).
Despite claims of widespread travel in the region they also get their eye-witnesses from Istanbul - wonder what they are doing there and who is paying them.

The other is by a Danish Architect who reported in Breitbart. Exactly the same claims of identify multiple prisons, and claims that these have been confirmed, but no addresses/grid refs, no satellite pictures, no details.
Faked.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Jan 21 2021 19:31 utc | 1

The white Western judeo-christian mass media cannot be trusted. I came to this realization in 1993. Since that time I have been using alternative media.

Posted by: Ali | Jan 21 2021 19:44 utc | 2

Meanwhile, behind the scenes:

China’s Xinjiang more than doubled its US exports in 2020, despite Trump’s sanctions and bans

Xinjiang’s exports to the United States more than doubled last year, despite increasing pressure on US companies to cut ties with the western Chinese region.

Shipments rose by 116 per cent in 2020 compared to 2019, analysis of Chinese customs data shows, led by strong sales of wind-powered electric generating sets, which jumped by 3,265 per cent from a year earlier and accounted for almost one quarter of all Xinjiang’s exports to the US.

Poor Uighurs, having to work in all of those manufacturing jobs...

Posted by: vk | Jan 21 2021 19:53 utc | 3

thanks b, for this informative article! i am curious about a topic that is connected and unfortunately i have been unable to find the youtube videos i remember seeing from a few years ago.. they were documentaries on the muslim population being indoctrinated into the headchopper cult ideology... i am curious how this can also be used as an ongoing wedge in the propaganda war on china? thanks b..

Posted by: james | Jan 21 2021 20:03 utc | 4

Less than half of Americans polled have faith in the mass media. I wonder why?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/123365/americans-remain-distrusting-news-media.aspx

As for me I stopped watching network news in the 1970's and gave up on the NY Times in 2003 thanks to lying Judy Miller. I should have shunned it during war of aggression against Yugoslavia. My bad.

Posted by: Gareth | Jan 21 2021 20:04 utc | 5

The mental gymnastics a populace would have to go through to accept the idea of a muslim genocide in China, be outraged about it, while simultaneously overlooking the fact that their own country has been bombing, droning, assassinating, and shooting muslims for at least 21 years and committing real genocide, completely eludes my capabilities to comprehend such ignorance and willful madness.

Posted by: Bruce Lee Marvin Gay | Jan 21 2021 20:06 utc | 6

About three weeks ago, we, across the vast reaches of Canada, received a mass post office mailing of a copy of The Epoch Time, a publication of Falun Gong. Falun Gong has some connections in Washington. with groups producing the anti China waves of propaganda these days. The paper had about 8 pages, pretty well all of it allegations against China a& its way of governing itself. I saw comment online from assorted fellow Canadians across the country commenting on receiving this mass mailing.
Somebody must have made a nice donation recently to Falun Gong.

Posted by: dave constable | Jan 21 2021 20:07 utc | 7

all the screeching retard monkeys who spent the past 5 years in conniptions over every "orange man bad" offense can't help themselves. there's this nonsense, the pathetic insistence on maintaining the venezuelan farce and of course "pootin is teh hitlur" being pissed out of my screen on every news channel. the thought of looking at their own sociopathic behavior is so terifying they'll go to absurd lengths to deflect and project on every perceived "enemy". if the modern west has a mantra it's probably "everything is someone else's fault ALL THE TIME EVER".

funnily enough: as i was reading this article the (dipshit canadian) news went straight from "pootin has a giant palace worth a billion dollurs derp" and the insinuation that he paid for it with nothing but corruption and selling the kidneys of dead journalists to "look at this giant house wayne gretzky is selling! it's sooper awthum and stuph!" and "matt damon is selling his 10 bathroom house it's even moar awthum derp!"

having a giant ostentatious mansion is evil if you're the leader of the world's largest country who helped said country emerge from a catastrophic decade of western-induced austerity and plunder but it's super exciting and fun when you played a dumb useless sport 30 years ago or make mediocre movies and enable harvey weinstein.

i'm assuming at this point that getting a job in western media requires some combination of missing chromosomes and a head injury.

Posted by: the pair | Jan 21 2021 20:10 utc | 8

*terrifying. i blame my typos on the houthis.

Posted by: the pair | Jan 21 2021 20:11 utc | 9

So, Biden's troops want to dig the Trump/Pompeo hole even deeper. That will only serve to deepen the severity of Great Depression 2.0. China was correct to extend its hand to Biden; but if it's shunned as appears to be the case, China will continue of its own path and ignore the Outlaw US Empire. After all, China has far more important things to do like protecting its citizens from any surge in COVID during the upcoming Spring Festival Holidays while also dealing with the detection of new viral strains and strenuous efforts to staunch any spread. China's offered to help with COVID, but won't if Biden doesn't overtly show a sea change in policy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 21 2021 20:23 utc | 10

You won't see Trump and Pompeo beating this drum (Trump policies become good when Biden endorses them).

Cynics see the entire craven establishment (of which Trump & family are full members) as EMPIRE FIRST (aka "Zionist" aka neo-colonial). Keeping progressives and conservatives at each others throats leaves the Deep State free to manage the Empire as it sees fit.

The Left has been neutered with lip service and a few bones thrown their way while the right has been squashed/discredited as bigots and domestic terrorists.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 21 2021 20:44 utc | 11

I predicted last fall that USA/West will unite over (propaganda-driven) hate for China.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 21 2021 20:46 utc | 12

So does this mean we're doing regime change in China? I really never got the play with the uyghurs during the Trump administration. For that matter I didn't get the game plan with Hong Kong. For the record I blame the American government and business elite for MCGA at the expense of working Americans. Now the concern about China seems more about covering their collective rear ends for something.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Jan 21 2021 20:49 utc | 13

"It is quite weird to claim that such a consistent population growth of an ethnic group is somehow a 'genocide'."

Tsk. If I had a dime for every weird claim of the New York Times, in a couple of years I'd have a personal jet.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Jan 21 2021 20:50 utc | 14

The "genocide" concept, in part, derives from a similar extreme/exagerated interpretation of Chinese domestic policy, namely describing family planning/ birth control/sexual education efforts in the region as "forced sterilization". These types of programs, of course, have long been touted by western organizations and have been understood as empowering women. Why the programs in Xinjiang are considered instead uniquely evil is not ever explained, nor do they have to be under the rules of engagement for western propaganda.

Posted by: jayc | Jan 21 2021 20:59 utc | 15

@ karlof1 | Jan 21 2021 20:23 utc | 9 with the calling forth of the great Depression 2.0

I agree that it is coming and close to happening. It will be different than the 1.0 version to the extent that countries are able to protect themselves from the debtmageddon gyrations.

China is organizing its society to be more self demand generating and finding alternative resources and markets. Other countries that are tightly aligned with China and are not frozen by the debt monster will survive. I think China should use its $1+ trillion US Treasuries to pay off some countries debts when the crash comes.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 21 2021 21:20 utc | 16

Maybe I read different sources of American and "Western" media, but they've been on about the Uighurs forever and generally in alignment with Trump's claims throughout his presidency. Even outlets like Vice, which is pretty left, and PBS, have run documentaries and series of stories decrying the alleged "genocide" and re-education camps.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 21 2021 21:42 utc | 17

Maybe we get our news from America and the West at different places, but they've been railing about the evil Chinese and the Uighurs for at least 4 years now, generally in alignment with Trump's administration on that topic. Left-leaning outlets like Vice and PBS have even run series and documentaries with secret footage and such. Not that I think PBS is really left at all, but it is in the eyes of many Americans.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 21 2021 21:45 utc | 18

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 21 2021 20:46 utc | 11

But you also predicted a landslide Trump popular and electoral vote election result. Just sayin'...

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 21 2021 21:46 utc | 19

Anyone know what happened to Circe? Was there a last hurrah post like Richard Steven Hack made in which he/she complained about being attacked and censured or has he/she just kind of disappeared?

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 21 2021 21:48 utc | 20

@18 _K_C_ - I think she and Mark2 are social distancing while they celebrate the mask returning to the empire!

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 21 2021 22:00 utc | 21

@18

RSH is still here. He posts under another name. Is this news to you? The others are here as well.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 21 2021 22:12 utc | 22

Your support for the ccp is frightening. I know usa government does some bad shit but the ccp is worse. I would not want to live under there rule

Posted by: Bob | Jan 21 2021 22:27 utc | 23

I don't think this demonization of China Xinjiang policy is that of the "Trump policy" or the "Biden policy" - it is more the "Deep State policy", i.e. it comes from the Intelligence community. This means neither party is able to change it. Of course, Pompeo comes from CIA, so he is part of the Deep State, and his lying words about Xinjiang is the direct words from the horse mouth.

Also, I can't remember NYT and other liberal media criticize "Trump policy" on Xinjiang. The best they did was to regurgitate those lies and call that reporting. Although they hate Trump, but when comes to China/Xinjiang, they are always on the same page as "Trump", i.e. the Deep State.

Posted by: d dan | Jan 21 2021 22:31 utc | 24

OK first off - you have to stop calling it "THE MEDIA".

"The media" of the past which USED TO BE OBJECTIVE is DEAD - the business model for "objectivity and analysis" is gone! It has entirely been replaced with sponsored content.

The industry is now "PUBLIC RELATIONS" because they are paid to put this stuff out to the public the way their client/sponsor wants it.

Once you start calling this "public relations", YOU will start to look at it in an entirely different way.

Posted by: James Cook | Jan 21 2021 22:38 utc | 25

Posted by: Bob | Jan 21 2021 22:27 utc | 21

No, dude, it's your ignorance that is frightening. You have no clue of what is going on in China apart from massive loads of bovine excrement force fed to you by the very same people/MSM who have been backing for decades criminal policies based on litanies of lies.

The informational problem in the western world isn't ignorance per se, as most people are naturally unaware of so many subjects outside their everyday lives, but militant ignorance. That is, to fight tooth and nail to remain stuck in deeply faulted notions that have been formed by a political culture steeped in falsehood and manipulation.

And that is one of the reasons why later day liberalism, the dominant culture of the globalist Anglo-American empire and its vassals, is fascism with American characteristics.

Posted by: Constantine | Jan 21 2021 22:40 utc | 26

China depends heavily on imported oil, most of which comes from Muslim countries. One must wonder if this propaganda is part of an effort to "convince" these countries not to sell to China, leaving it effectively without oil.

Posted by: TH | Jan 21 2021 22:44 utc | 27

@ Posted by: TH | Jan 21 2021 22:44 utc | 25

That would only work in one scenario: if the genocide was really happening.

But it's not, and not only it is not, but the Uighurs are enjoying unseen before economic progress and rise in life quality. The other Muslim countries are seeing what really is happening (through the diplomatic channels) on a governmental level and know that the American propaganda is 100% false, so they have the peace in mind to continue to do business with China.

The goal of the American propaganda is probably to create a legal justification to increase/create economic sanctions by American business (and some of its most loyal allies, like the UK, Australia, Western Europe and Japan) to China. But it will definitely not work against non-ally Muslim countries, whose embassies and intelligence services have the real information about what's really happening in Xinjiang.

Posted by: vk | Jan 21 2021 22:50 utc | 28

@ Posted by: Bob | Jan 21 2021 22:27 utc | 21

The Chinese don't live under the CPC's rule. They are the CPC, and the CPC are them - they are a true party of the people.

Posted by: vk | Jan 21 2021 22:58 utc | 29

“So does this mean we're doing regime change in China?”

Am sure you’re being sarcastic or something! The driving force behind China’s success is determination not to get fucked again. If they hadn’t gotten their shit together they would have been made in to another basket case like Africa.

Posted by: Peter | Jan 21 2021 23:02 utc | 30

James Cook @23--

Excellent comment!! Public Relations a la Bernays. We might also add marketing as with Madison Avenue and the Walter Lippmann types who "shape" public opinion.

/////

Meanwhile on the Impeachment Front, Biden is now targeted, plus additional info makes the entire show really bad PR for the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 21 2021 23:27 utc | 31


Trump was straight up and more brutish than Biden will ever be. Let's put aside his white nationalist rhetoric, his deplorable dupes got played... The great white hope failed in every endeavor, except when it came to make Israel geater again. He lost the trade war, didn't finish his great wall, etc, etc. One of his last deeds in office was Amnesty for Venezuelan illegals -- to help Ivanka run for Senate against Gang of eight Rubio and reactionary cubans. 16 hours before he left in office, Trump approved Deferred Enforced Departure (DED) for Venezuelans. Like TPS, this will allow recipients to live and work in the United States. Florida will forever be a GOP state. After the masses of latin american overthrow their european oligarchy and comprador elites. The reactionary trash always ends up seeking refuge and in South Florida. Expect Biden to be very active on the Americas front. Without a secure rear, the declining empire has no future, and could rapidly collapse.

Posted by: Horatio | Jan 21 2021 23:43 utc | 32

Trump was straight up and more brutish than Biden will ever be. Let's put aside his white nationalist rhetoric, his deplorable dupes got played... <-- Posted by: Horatio | Jan 21 2021 23:43 utc | 30


Trump is more enigmatic than Horatio gives him credit. To all appearances, Trump got very interested in dirt, legitimate dirt IMHO, on Biden family. For that, he got himself into impeachment, in part thanks to a CIA mole with Ukrainian roots who worked in his office. Why would "anti-deep state-er" even employ a clear CIA mole? But there is more. A member of Ukrainian parliament, formerly in Ukrainian intelligence, published tapes of Poroshenko talking with Biden and Putin on many occasion and long printouts of payments Hunter Biden received -- apparently, intelligence moles with Ukrainian roots occur also in Ukraine. Trump officials duly imposed sanctions on Derkach before the elections. Thus months before revelations from Hunter's laptop the same material was available. Giuliani supposedly was searching for it. And Trump (through officials in American embassy in Kiev, in the State Department and in Treasury department) duly sanctioned the provider of goods, with a good dollop of bad mouthing. Story was squashed and prevented from crossing the oceans separating America and Eurasia. And after the election, a slew of alleged collaborators of Derkach were sanctioned, some from the ruling party, and still under Trump.

Why did Trump contribute to the preservation of anti-Russian/anti-Trump narrative by sanctioning people with information undermining that swill? Idiocy? Some VERY DEEP game?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 22 2021 0:20 utc | 33

James @ 3:

Years ago, Uyghurs unhappy with Beijing in some way were being recruited by Turkey and were issued with false passport papers to travel through other parts of Asia (in particular Southeast Asia) and thence to Syria. Along the way they were picking up training in handling weaponry and were being taught Wahhabist ideology.

There were several thousand Uyghurs fighting in Syria over the past decade (from 2015 onwards) and there are probably still many Uyghurs and their families trapped in Idlib province in NW Syria.

Although the linked article states that the Uyghur fighters were unwilling to return to China (as evidenced by the fact that they brought their wives and children to settle in Syrian towns abandoned by Alawites and Christians during the war), there is the possibility that their sponsors want them - or some of them - to return to China to start low-level conflicts that might escalate later on into war against Beijing.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 22 2021 0:21 utc | 34

https://thistimeitisdifferent.com/reserve-currency-may-2018

News (other than,

MOON OF ALABAMA, Et Al

[e.g., a handful only]),

= cognitive dissonance aka bees buzzing in the brain ... designed to get we the digital slaves to waste time we cannot afford to waste...

The theatrical Wall Street Gang in DC is a powerful George Orwell greatest crime fraud in earth,

What if all the people 24/7/365 got sustainable off the grid, voting would be meaningless as it already appears so it is BUT the global currency swan song would be a new world order of common sense.

Thanks MOA, you are a professional human being

Posted by: Not Important | Jan 22 2021 0:47 utc | 35

@ 32 jen... thanks... i do recall that.. these videos were actually taken inside of kyrgystan or kazahstan, now that i've jogged my memory banks a bit more.. i can't remember if any of the uighars are also located in these countries... apparently they are the 7th largest ethnic group inside kazahstan.. they make up only about 1% of kyrgystan, so i guess the video was on the uyghers inside kazahstan.. the videos must have been from 2012 or thereabouts... i can't find any of them on youtube anymore.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs_in_Kazakhstan

so, i think i was mistaken thinking these videos that i recall seeing were taken inside china... i could be wrong, but because i never retained the videos - they were 1 hour documentary type videos - i don't recall the location, but i remember the indoctrination process clearly.. the uyghers definitely had a presence in syria which i think turkey was responsible for..

Posted by: james | Jan 22 2021 2:14 utc | 36

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 21 2021 22:12 utc | 20

Yes, it's news to me. I was genuinely asking. FWIW, I actually liked RSH's commentary and was only using him as an example when I asked if Circe was still around. In fact, way back a long time ago, I didn't mind Circe's contributions either, but they became unhinged around the time that the Democratic nomination was handed to Biden, IIRC.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 22 2021 2:38 utc | 37

TH @25: "China depends heavily on imported oil, most of which comes from Muslim countries. One must wonder if this propaganda is part of an effort to "convince" these countries not to sell to China, leaving it effectively without oil."

That is not how capitalism works. Major oil producing countries have to sell their oil or their economies crash. Demand has dropped significantly since the pandemic went global so it is a buyer's market. If big oil producers want profits they have to sell to China. The Market (hallowed be Its name) doesn't give the oil producers a choice.

But it is even worse than that. If a single major oil producing country, say Saudi Barbaria, decides to cut off exports to China then they have to unload their unsold oil on the remaining market. This will result in a massive oil glut on the market which will drive prices into negative territory and crash every major oil producer's economy. That's not how a country makes friends and influences people. You think carving Khashoggi up like a Thanksgiving turkey upset people? That ain't nothing like how upset people would be if Saudi Barbaria dumped an extra couple million barrels per day on the market at fire sale prices.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 22 2021 2:39 utc | 38

Posted by: vk | Jan 21 2021 22:58 utc | 27

Yeah, b...bu.....but what about good old fashioned YouNited States of America style 'DEMOCRACY'?!

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 22 2021 2:41 utc | 39

Chinese can do this, being poor exotic non colonial Marxists. They only hold 1/15 of the Earth's land surface and they are only 1.2 billion strong.
On the other hand those Western bourgeois rich Jewish exploiters have taken 1/10000 where they committed worse reverse genocide on some peaceful Arabs: biggest population growth of all. There strength of 8 millions is The threat to world peace - according to some biased and numerically challenged.

Posted by: Antonym | Jan 22 2021 2:44 utc | 40

A Zionist dot-head? Will wonders never cease!

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 22 2021 2:47 utc | 41

China first denied about the existence of the interment camps. Under intense international scrutiny, it then finally admitted that the camps exist, but they are vocational camps. It issued videos showing how happy the Uighur are in those camps. Just how reliable are the numbers reported by China government?

Posted by: Martin | Jan 22 2021 2:52 utc | 42

@ Posted by: Martin | Jan 22 2021 2:52 utc | 40

Err... they can't deny the existence of something that doesn't exist. Those are reeducation camps, not concentration/interment camps.

And there wasn't "intense international scrutiny": one façade NGO forged the accusation based on alleged interviews with eight random Uighurs, and the Western MSM reverberated the fake news from there. A UN team then went to the reeducation camps and saw nothing wrong with them, but the propaganda continued, based on the mind blowing conspiracy theory that the Chinese hid the terrible things in some kind of basement or dungeon from the UN. The "refugees" tactics then followed.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 3:08 utc | 43

@34 James and 32 Jen - Kazakhstan has had a similar problem with parts of their population being radicalized and traveling to Syria for jihad. The Kazakh government actually sent their military there to rescue 600+ women and children. They also brought back quite a few men who wanted to return. The operation was called Jusan - wormwood in Kazakh.

Operation Jusan - Astana Times

I believe I read here about the East Turkistan Islamic Movement which is in Western China. They are a problem there. They are also a threat to Central Asia.

Pompeo took them off the terrorism list last year in November. Here's the establishment's take on them.

Foreign Policy article on East Turkistan Islamic Movement

Perhaps they helped out with the Tulip Revolution in Kyrgyzstan. Or the other two that have transpired in Kyrgyzstan.

Here's an Al Jazeera video about Uzbeks fleeing Kyrgyzstan. There are a fair amount of videos about Uzbeks in Kyrgyzstan on YouTube.

alJazeera-Uzbeks flee Kyrgyzstan-2010

Posted by: lex talionis | Jan 22 2021 3:18 utc | 44

Vk acknowledges that camps exist but decides to argue over what to call them?

You know you're on the right side of history when you find yourself reduced to arguing over the correct nomenclature for prison camps

Posted by: Triden | Jan 22 2021 3:18 utc | 45

@ 42 lex... thanks lex.. if i ever find those videos, i will share them..

Posted by: james | Jan 22 2021 3:36 utc | 46

The US accusations of a million or more people in concentration camps only seem to be credible to rich Western Countries. Outside of the West, these accusations don't seem to have nearly as much support.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/2020-edition-which-countries-are-for-or-against-chinas-xinjiang-policies/

Please note, this post was made by Fnord13, and not by the person who uses the name "fnord".

Posted by: Fnord13 | Jan 22 2021 3:55 utc | 47

Grab a clue folks, the empire has 900 + military bases around the globe, but, we're supposed to fear China and Russia. They're the ones who oppress minorities. Never mind Israel, and their treatment and oppression of the Palestinians.

Think about it...

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 22 2021 3:56 utc | 48

_K_C_ @Jan21 21:46 #17

But you also predicted a landslide Trump popular and electoral vote election result. Just sayin'...

That prediction was half right: either Trump was made to appear that he won (and he was cheated) or his supporters were fooled into believe that he won. Sidney Powell explicitly declared several times that Trump won in a landslide.

But my prediction wasn't made because I believe in Trump but because I think the Deep State control politics. Strangely, many people feel that is true after Biden's victory. But anyone looking critically at politics over the last 30 years could've reached the same conclusion. I know that YOU are one of the savvy one's that actually share my cynicism.

So my prediction was tied to the Deep State: if the Deep State wanted war they could elevate Trump by creating a landslide victory. I based that on the need to address China's rise sooner rather than later (they are only getting stronger) and the fact that in the last few decades Republican President's (keeper of the Patriotic flame) generally do big wars while Democrats do small or covert wars.

I clearly failed to see that shutting down conservatives (aka "Tea Party Republicans") was a top priority.

I still think we are on the path to war and it's very concerning to me.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 22 2021 3:59 utc | 49

Hey rabbit, your guess was almost right. The 1% decided this past race, plus, rank and file workers. Without consent from the 1%, the electoral college would have tapped DJT, but, they were outworked, and lost the popular vote. Ask HRC about that.

Biden and Harris WILL follow the dictates of the 1%.

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 22 2021 4:08 utc | 50

The friggen "deep state" is a reality, but it's nothing more than it ever was. Mega-business having it's influence over Govt.
because of it's acquired wealth.

Whoever has the gold rules. Same as its ALWAYS been.

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 22 2021 4:15 utc | 51

China faces the fundamental trustworthiness in its reporting via its highly-regulated media. For example, China does not include asymptomatic cases in its Covid19 tally, unlike everyone else. Its true number is many more times higher than what it officially reports.

Posted by: Martin | Jan 22 2021 4:28 utc | 52

I genuinely posit that NY Times reporters and editors don't know what the prefix "geno" means, and I'm also willing to bet, giving very good odds to the counter bet, that they don't know what the suffix "cide" means.

Up until 15-25 years ago, the NY Times employed people who were at least literate in English, and there were decent copy editors.

20 years ago, the NY Times still would have published such misdirections and false labeling of things like seasonal labor, but it would have been "significant discrimination" in place of the extremist term "genocide".

I skimmed the Uyghur article and saw no evidence of genocide, so couldn't be bothered to read it detail. It impresses me that B had the patience to do so. This "reporting" is akin to the: "there was no coup in Ukraine" reporting of early 2015 regarding the early 2014 coup in Ukraine. Only in the central European case, the NY Times was siding with Neo-Nazis who advocated killing all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine, which would be a genocide, at least for Ukrainian Russians. Irony.

Posted by: Jay | Jan 22 2021 4:42 utc | 53

From the Indian actual Marxist "Hindu" paper yesterday: "China defends new village in Arunachal Pradesh amid border construction push"
https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/china-defends-new-village-in-arunachal-amid-border-construction-push/article33627391.ece

Posted by: Antonym | Jan 22 2021 6:24 utc | 54

James @ 34, 44, Lex @ 42:

Here is the Dubai-based journalist Jenan Moussa's 2017 documentary "Undercover in Idlib", showing film footage of Uyghurs living in Jisr al Shugurr, a town in NW Syria.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 22 2021 6:24 utc | 55

Posted by: Martin | Jan 22 2021 4:28 utc | 50

Next you're going to inform us that China's death toll from Covid-19 is much higher due to a picture of some urns in Wuhan or phone accounts being deactivated. Remember, you're not the only one reading the talking points.

Posted by: One Too Many | Jan 22 2021 6:33 utc | 56

@ Jen 53

Islamic extremists from just about any nation on Earth gathered in North Syria: why would Xinjiang be special? Before they gathered in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Nobody forced them to go, they all fell for the Mecca ideology.

Ok, this time Youtube, Facebook etc. spread the word / view being good CIA pawns. No bans, yes!

Posted by: Antonym | Jan 22 2021 6:49 utc | 57

"China does not include asymptomatic cases in its official tally.."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-wuhan-covid-19-cases-10-times-higher-than-reported-13865928

"Since February, China’s coronavirus tally of ‘confirmed’ cases has not included positive patients who are asymptomatic or presymptomatic"

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3107297/time-china-align-global-practice-counting-coronavirus-cases

Posted by: Martin | Jan 22 2021 7:29 utc | 58

Biden and Harris WILL follow the dictates of the 1%.

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 22 2021 4:08 utc | 48

Oh come on now. As if Trump didn't too. Just a different segment of that small percentage of the population.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 22 2021 8:35 utc | 59

Biden and Harris WILL follow the dictates of the 1%.

Posted by: vetinLA | Jan 22 2021 4:08 utc | 48

Oh c'mon now. As if Trump's admin didn't follow the dictates of a different portion of that small percentage of non flesh-in-the-game citizens.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 22 2021 8:36 utc | 60

I've lived and worked in China for the past twenty years and I can't remember once when the Chinese Communist Party oppressed me. I also live in a military district of the city and while I do get the fish eye from some young soldiers now and then, nobody's opened fire on me. Most of you (99.9%) blither on and on about a land and system you don 't know and can't comprehend. Get out there and learn something about the world. As for me, I'm real happy to be in China. This government works, stay safe, stay negative, Mike Liston

Posted by: Guy Liston | Jan 22 2021 8:43 utc | 61

The Number Of Uyghurs Has Tripled - The U.S. Calls It A Genocide

Tut tut tut! What's wrong with that? It is perfectly consistent NewSpeak. Please don't make the mistake of confusing it with English. To translate NewSpeak into English you just have to reverse the meaning: "The number of Uyghurs has tripled - The US calls it population explosion". Voila!

Likewise: {NewSpeak} "The Uyghur are excluded from labor and are coerced to labor" = {English} "Uyghurs get more job opportunities and excellent pay".

With the new genocidal and totalitarian Biden regime fully installed, you need to be better equipped to deal with NewSpeak.

Why not launch a machine-translator app on MoA, as a service to exhausted NYT and WP readers exhausted by having to do manual translations of all their news? Just a simple program that correctly inverts the news (taking into proper account which countries/parties/politicians are blacklisted and which countries/parties/politicians are whitelisted, of course, and also of course don't forget Identity Misterminology. Feed in a link to a NYT article in NewSpeak, and get an automatic machine-translation into proper English. I am sure NYT and WP readers would be delighted, and would be much better informed.

Posted by: BM | Jan 22 2021 10:43 utc | 62

Something to study, with a lot of sources referred to :

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlhHczFVgaYX-TIZD61s_w/edit

https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang

Posted by: Peter | Jan 22 2021 10:58 utc | 63

Guy Liston @58 <- What this Guy said.

Look folks, you don't have to remain ignorant about the real China unless that ignorance is terribly important to you for some reason. It is very easy to go to China and see the place firsthand. Sure, you'll be a little ashamed of yourself after you find out that almost everything you thought you knew about the place was just garbage piped into your mind by crappy western mass media, but the self-respect you can have after that garbage is purged can then be real and not based upon the fairy tales that you currently depend upon.

The streets are safe everywhere in China, transportation options are superb, lodging is cheap if you stay away from the five star hotels, and the food... mein Gott the food! Trying to sample the entire enormous variety of delicious stuff to be found in China can be a lifelong quest all on its own. While the language barrier can be formidable, the Chinese people tend to be very patient with travelers fumbling through their phrase books and good natured about foreigners mangling the local lingo. Heck, even the Chinese frequently mess up the local dialects when they range far afield in their own country, so they are used to it. They have been dealing with language issues for millennia, which by the way is why they use a logographic writing system rather than a phonetically-based alphabetic one.

Basically, it is embarrassing when westerners parrot the jingoist nonsense they have been force fed by the mass media about China when it is so easy for anyone to just go there and see for themselves. It is not some huge and enigmatic blank spot on the globe where you have to rely upon reports from only the most intrepid adventurers like the interior of Africa was a few hundred years ago. Lots of people have gone to places like Xinjiag and Tibet and seen that what they have been told by CNN and the BBC are lies. You too can likewise clear your head of the lies.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 22 2021 11:00 utc | 64

Xinjiang’s exports to the United States more than doubled last year, despite increasing pressure on US companies to cut ties with the western Chinese region.
Shipments rose by 116 per cent in 2020 compared to 2019, analysis of Chinese customs data shows, led by strong sales of wind-powered electric generating sets, which jumped by 3,265 per cent from a year earlier and accounted for almost one quarter of all Xinjiang’s exports to the US.
Poor Uighurs, having to work in all of those manufacturing jobs...
Posted by: vk | Jan 21 2021 19:53 utc | 2

Having significant Xinjiang exports to the US is a good strategy geopolitically - it means the US imports causally link benefits to Uyghurs vs. sanctions. If the US put sanctions on Chinese imports saying "Sanctions to help the poor afflicted Uyghurs", critics can say "your sanctions reduce benefits to Uyghurs". Of course it is probably a drop in the ocean compared to Chinese imports to the US as a whole, but that is another matter.

Posted by: BM | Jan 22 2021 11:04 utc | 65

Why is it called genocide:
Johnsons china war
Like the definition of anti-semitism with the juridical suppression follow up in europ and the US.

Posted by: gary | Jan 22 2021 11:54 utc | 66

@ Posted by: Triden | Jan 22 2021 3:18 utc | 43

I don't what you're talking about. China never denied the existence of the reeducation camps, they denied they were extermination camps (which was the initial accusation; it was only later that the Western MSM downgraded it to "interment" camps).

Are reeducation camps freedom? Of course not - but they are not genocide either. But we live in the real world, a world where the Uighurs decided to unite as terrorists and exterminate the Han in Xinjiang through knife attacks (and accepted American money and weapons). You pay for your actions in the material wold, there's no Heaven or Hell.

--//--

@ Posted by: BM | Jan 22 2021 11:04 utc | 61

You logic doesn't make sense because the goal of the sanctions is to cripple one's economy. If the USA foments the Xinjiang economy in order to destroy it, it is a net zero effort.

Besides, the USA could simply sanction the entire Chinese economy, Han dominated areas, in order to punish the CPC as a whole, and not just Xinjiang.

Most likely scenario is that the USA really needs those wind turbines.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 12:13 utc | 67

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 12:13 utc | 63


China never denied the existence of the reeducation camps, they denied they were extermination camps (which was the initial accusation; it was only later that the Western MSM downgraded it to "interment" camps).

Reeducation camps have a long and storied history in the West and in the USA in particular, up to the present day.

In this regard the worst than can be said about the Chinese state is that it's evil matches that of the leaders of the 'Free World'.

While the leaders of the 'Free World' are guilty of hypocrisy in addition to the evil they accuse the CPC of.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 22 2021 12:21 utc | 68

Xinjiang has been under Chinese control for more than 2000 years? I wonder what scholarly source the author had in mind when he wrote this. Or maybe he just made that up.


Louis ProyectJan 19 #5702
I have a special interest in Uyghur oppression for a couple of reasons. To start with, they are a Turkic people whose language my wife and in-laws can practically understand. Secondly, they are just another example of how people living under Stalinist rule can suffer the same kind of injustices as they suffered under pre-Communist colonial rule.

During the rise of the Mongols, the Turks, who were also a nomadic people historically, settled into the region that became known as Turkestan. As such, it was a key element in the Silk Road that facilitated trade between Europe and Asia until the end of the 15th century.

This area languished for centuries until competition between China, Russia, and European powers during the 19th century prompted an invasion by the Manchus into East Turkestan with the encouragement of British banks who were participating in the “Great Game”. “Xinjiang” or “Sinkiang”, which means “New Dominion” or “New Territory”, was annexed by the Manchu empire on November 18, 1884.

Meanwhile, Czarist Russia was seizing control over West Turkestan in its own expansionist bid. In their victory over the old regime, the Bolsheviks had to contend with the problem of oppressed nationalities, in particular the Muslim peoples to the south in what had been known as West Turkestan. In a fascinating debate between Lenin and Bukharin in 1919, there are some issues that are relevant to today’s struggles. Bukharin questions the need for self-determination of such peoples, using arguments similar to that of Rosa Luxemburg. Responding to Bukharin’s assertion that “I want to recognise only the right of the working classes to self-determination,” Lenin refers to the Bashkirs, a Turkic people who had petitioned the Soviet government for the right to form an autonomous Soviet Republic.

What, then, can we do in relation to such peoples as the Kirghiz, the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Turkmen, who to this day are under the influence of their mullahs? Here, in Russia, the population, having had a long experience of the priests, helped us to overthrow them. But you know how badly the decree on civil marriage is still being put into effect. Can we approach these peoples and tell them that we shall overthrow their exploiters? We cannot do this, because they are entirely subordinated to their mullahs. In such cases we have to wait until the given nation develops, until the differentiation of the proletariat from the bourgeois elements, which is inevitable, has taken place.

Our programme must not speak of the self-determination of the working people, because that would be wrong. It must speak of what actually exists. Since nations are at different stages on the road from medievalism to bourgeois democracy and from bourgeois democracy to proletarian democracy, this thesis of our programme is absolutely correct. With us there have been very many zigzags on this road. Every nation must obtain the right to self-determination, and that will make the self-determination of the working people easier.

As most of you probably know, this policy was reversed within two or three years as Stalin consolidated power and reintroduced the Great Russian chauvinism that made people such as the Bashkirs miserable. Just before his death, he wrote an article that has been described as his testament. It included the following warning:

It is quite natural that in such circumstances the “freedom to secede from the union” by which we justify ourselves will be a mere scrap of paper, unable to defend the non-Russians from the onslaught of that really Russian man, the Great-Russian chauvinist, in substance a rascal and a tyrant, such as the typical Russian bureaucrat is. There is no doubt that the infinitesimal percentage of Soviet and sovietised workers will drown in that tide of chauvinistic Great-Russian riffraff like a fly in milk.


full: https://louisproyect.org/2018/09/25/china-and-the-uyghurs/

Posted by: Louis N Proyect | Jan 22 2021 12:49 utc | 69

Back to the Boeing crashes, read this long article and critique of the basic engineering of the 737 Max, in Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-the-boeing-737-max-remains-a-risky-ride/

The article reviews the engineering flaws of the plane and the political economy of corporate capture of the FAA.

Posted by: Prof K | Jan 22 2021 13:35 utc | 70

Are reeducation camps freedom? Of course not - but they are not genocide either. But we live in the real world, a world where the Uighurs decided to unite as terrorists and exterminate the Han in Xinjiang through knife attacks (and accepted American money and weapons). You pay for your actions in the material wold, there's no Heaven or Hell.


Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 12:13 utc | 63

Poke them a little and you find that rabid idealogues like vk always eventually expose themselves for the totalitarian monsters they really are

Merely substitute 2 or 3 words in vk's above quoted prison-camp justification (eg:"Jew" for Uighur, "worldwide zionist boycott" for "accepted American money and weapons" ) and you have a Nazi's justification for concentration camps.

Well done vk!

Like I said earlier: when your arguments are reduced to merely arguing over the correct nomenclature for mass-imprisonment in camps, you are clearly "on the right side of history"

Posted by: Triden | Jan 22 2021 13:55 utc | 71

The faux left in America think that the "microaggression" of laughing at a Black guy for wearing his trousers around his knees is the same thing as a lynching, so I guess from that perspective some vocational training would be seen as the same thing as a genocide.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 22 2021 14:30 utc | 72

@ Posted by: Triden | Jan 22 2021 13:55 utc | 67

Reeducation camps are destined to reintegrate a group of people to society. Those Uighurs are not going to live there forever and, once they do, they'll not only know how to speak and write Chinese, but also get a job. No Uighur is harmed let alone killed.

Extermination camps are destined to kill people. Once someone get in there, he/she won't get out - unless he/she is liberated from the outside, for example, when the Red Army ran over the Third Reich and its possessions and saved millions of people in such institutions.

To compare reeducation camps with extermination camps just because there's a similarity between the terms is ridiculous, it's philosophy at its most vulgar and lowest.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 14:33 utc | 73

@Louis N Proyect
"As most of you probably know, this policy was reversed within two or three years as Stalin consolidated..."

Actually, Mr Lenin's unfortunate ethnocentric scheme was never reversed, as demonstrated by the demise of the Soviet Union, breaking up right along the meaningless ethnic lines instituted by Lenin.

Moreover, post-breakup, every newly-formed independent state (except, arguably, the Russian Federation) has accepted a rather extreme form of ethnocentrism as its raison d'etre. With all predictable consequences.

Thank you, grandpa Lenin.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Jan 22 2021 15:36 utc | 74

@ Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Jan 22 2021 15:36 utc | 74

Not so simple.

First of all, the October Revolution wouldn't be feasible without the promise of self-determination of the peoples of the Russian Empire. It was a "campaign promise", so to speak.

Second, the concept of self-determination of the peoples greatly increased the USSR's soft power in the future Third World. It is hard to imagine Marxism ever reaching Asia without this then never-seen-before emancipation of the oppressed peoples (lead by example). There almost certainly would never be a Communist Party of China, Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia etc. etc. That's why, even nowadays, the image of the USSR - and, therefore, communism - is much better in the Third World countries (neocolonial emancipation, economic independence) than in the First World countries (which can hide in the principle of Social-Fascism).

Third, radicalism among the southern republics of the USSR are more fruit of USA-backed radicalization than by the principle of self-determination of the peoples. That's why the modern examples of Middle East radicalism are clearly independentist in name only, clearly tying themselves with the USA (economic dependence on the USA) as the example of the Kurds in Syria makes evident.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 15:52 utc | 75

Mr. vk

Re-education camps are designed to break the will of an individual, trample on his innate human dignity, and cower him into obedience.

Posted by: fyi | Jan 22 2021 16:01 utc | 76

Posted by: Bruce Lee Marvin Gay | Jan 21 2021 20:06 utc | 6

The approaches taken by both sides to confront Islam and the threat Islam poses to the two dominant powers' ideologies differ.

We also need to distinguish between actions of a beligerent (US in Iraq and Afghanistan) with the actions of one's own government (China in China).

Muslims in America are not subject to (vk approved) re-education. I am not aware of Muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan also being subject to forced re-education. Certainly, US didn't care that many Muslims died in Iraq but equally didn't give a care about non-Muslim Vietnamese.

It is also likely factual that "jihadist" exist among the Muslims in China, but what is the actual percentage? Are more than 10%, 20%, 30% of Chinese Muslim men "jihadist"? Isn't it likely that a very small percentage are actually ideologized jihadists?

What justifies the Communist party of China to put much larger fraction of Muslim Chinese men into these re-education camps (which William Gruff assures us is just like "public education"). I remember "public education" in USA. It was nothing like a re-education camp with guards and barbed wires. (William Gruff apparently lived in a very special district in America.)

This blog is an apologist for Globalist agendas. In two recent instances it has misplaced its celebrated analytical rigor to give us New York Times style analysis. (Last one was Covid-19 hysteria).

Islam is feared by West because of USURY.

Islam is feared by CCP because of GOD.

They are both entirely correct to fear Islam. Both the evil financial foundation of the West and the dehumanizing Ideology as God foundation of CCP are vulnerable to unimpeded Islam. This they fear, and rightly so.

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 16:14 utc | 77

Institutions designed to "break the will of an individual, trample on his innate human dignity, and cower him into obedience"? Sounds like American mass incarceration to me. Glass houses and all that, Mr. Reagan.

Posted by: fnord | Jan 22 2021 16:17 utc | 78

@ Posted by: fyi | Jan 22 2021 16:01 utc | 76

So, desert nomads can be radicalized and use an AR-15, explosives and MANPADs (all of that with a guarantee of a green card in some Western European country!) but can't be integrated into a modern socialist economy to work in a cotton farm or a wind turbine factory?

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 16:32 utc | 79

@fyi etc.,

Stop listening to the Western propaganda, challengers to the dominant imperial rule have always been libelled to paint them as less than civilized - the Amerindians, Africans, Germans in WW1 (when challenging the Anglo-American dominance), Russia/USSR, China, Iran, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, the Philipino Moro, the domestic "left" and the domestic "right" when they don't comply with ruling dogma . Different time, same playbook.

Putin was demonized only after it became clear that he was a nationalist, China only after they became a real competitor and showed that they would not allow Western financial interests to take control of their economy. This will only get worse as China continues to rise against the rotted-out US, until the elites of the latter are forced to accept reality (or we get the professional air-brushed and extremely dangerous to everyone version of Trump).

Go read "The Extreme Centre" by Tariq Ali and 'Manufacturing Consent" by Chomsky to help lift the fog of propaganda and imperialist dogma from your mind.

Posted by: Roger | Jan 22 2021 16:40 utc | 80

American Muslim@Jan 22 2021 16:14 utc | 77

Islam is feared by CCP because of GOD.

Why does China fear Islam's god but not other god(s) like Christian's? My understanding is that Islam and Christianity both refer to the same god. Why does China not "re-educate" Christians? China does not "re-educate" Muslims elsewhere in China either. In addition, as far as I know, China does not force Muslims in Xinjiang to change their religion, does it?

Xinjiang has its geology approximity to the -stans, which makes it more prone to external influences.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 22 2021 16:44 utc | 81

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 16:14 utc | 77

China doesn't fear Islam or Uighurs because god. They fear the radicalized ones because they're proven to be destabilizing and controlled from aboard.

USA do not fear Islam. They abhors Islam because they are still true to their teaching including anti usury and run counters to their family unit destructing neoliberal ideologies. USA has proved to use radical Islam multiple times both against their own and against their perceived enemies aboard.

Those who want to claim that all Islam is just one are trying to make point by making them into single group of sectarian lines.

Posted by: Lucci | Jan 22 2021 16:49 utc | 82

b, you just need to work on your ability to appreciate cognitive dissonance. This is a key factor for success in the modern world. Let me elucidate:

Just as Russia is 100% evil yet really bad at assassinating people through the most powerful toxins on the planet, China is 100% evil yet really bad at committing genocide. Thank goodness some of us live in the good ol' US of A which is a champion at everything!

See? problem solved. /s off.

Posted by: worldblee | Jan 22 2021 16:52 utc | 83

@ Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 16:14 utc | 77

What justifies the Communist party of China to put much larger fraction of Muslim Chinese men into these re-education camps (which William Gruff assures us is just like "public education")

It's something called Rule of Law. China has laws, and they must be obeyed. Simple as that.

It is also likely factual that "jihadist" exist among the Muslims in China, but what is the actual percentage? Are more than 10%, 20%, 30% of Chinese Muslim men "jihadist"? Isn't it likely that a very small percentage are actually ideologized jihadists?

I don't know the percentage. What I do know is that, whatever the numbers are, the Chinese government has a better knowledge of them than you.

Muslims in America are not subject to (vk approved) re-education. I am not aware of Muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan also being subject to forced re-education. Certainly, US didn't care that many Muslims died in Iraq but equally didn't give a care about non-Muslim Vietnamese.

This has nothing to do with religion. The Uighurs are being reintegrated because it is important to the national security of China, as they are a vulnerable group to American cooptation. The number of mosques in China has been booming. Or are you saying the Tibetans (the other alleged "oppressed minority") are also Muslims? Or are the Taiwanese and Hongkongers also Muslim?

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 16:53 utc | 84

It's something called Rule of Law. China has laws, and they must be obeyed. Simple as that.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 16:53 utc | 84

I think it a fine thing that you are perched in your job as a permanent mouthpiece for a discredited ideology. It helps others note your regularly noted lack of integrity in your responses.

Please present PROOF that every single man in CCPs re-education camps committed a crime, much less a crime committed as a paid partisan for a foreign power.

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:05 utc | 85

Posted by: fyi | Jan 22 2021 16:01 utc | 76


Re-education camps are designed to break the will of an individual, trample on his innate human dignity, and cower him into obedience.

I think the problem is with the choice of words.

If the Chinese had been literate enough to call them "Re-habilitation Camps", as their white and arab brethren have, everthing would have been fine:

1. https://www.jstor.org/stable/26351137?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents


Terrorist Rehabilitation and Community Engagement: New Frontiers in Combating Terrorism
Rohan Gunaratna

2. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwir_7OrgbDuAhWWaCsKHY9oCP8QFjABegQIBBAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unafei.or.jp%2Fpublications%2Fpdf%2FRS_No104%2FNo104_8_VE_Hussin.pdf&usg=AOvVaw23TnvUYg5jhZSg221_WU1g


Empirical evidence has shown that some countries are developing different facets of terrorist rehabilitation programmes, focusing on ideological, religious, educational, vocational, social, creative arts therapy, sports and recreation and psychological issues that cause violent extremism.

... and so forth, and so on, in myriad transmutations and mutations thereof ...

Some people are better of broken and rebuilt. After all, what is the US Army but a giant, sprawling re-education camp? Yet not a a single voice calls for their rescue ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 22 2021 17:06 utc | 86

@ Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:05 utc | 85

I think that the burden of proof is on you, as China is a sovereign nation with the power to write and enforce its own laws.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 17:07 utc | 87

@_K_C_ | Jan 21 2021 21:48 utc | 20

Anyone know what happened to Circe? Was there a last hurrah post like Richard Steven Hack made in which he/she complained about being attacked and censured or has he/she just kind of disappeared?

That's not the whole story
https://postimg.cc/7JDBBXFN

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 22 2021 17:09 utc | 88

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:05 utc | 85


Please present PROOF that every single man in CCPs re-education camps committed a crime, much less a crime committed as a paid partisan for a foreign power.

Please present proof of every individual in the CPCs 're-education camps' and then we will examine the reasons he/she is there.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 22 2021 17:09 utc | 89

@_K_C_ | Jan 21 2021 21:48 utc | 20

Anyone know what happened to Circe? Was there a last hurrah post like Richard Steven Hack made in which he/she complained about being attacked and censured or has he/she just kind of disappeared?

Let sleeping dogs lie ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 22 2021 17:12 utc | 90

I think that the burden of proof is on you, as China is a sovereign nation with the power to write and enforce its own laws.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 17:07 utc | 87

Thank you for making my point. We agree that neither you nor I are in possession of legal facts documenting the necessity for CCP to subject these individuals to inhuman treatment.

On your side, you have your ideological necessity as the driving force of your apologia for CCP's trampling of the Human Rights of Chinese Muslims.

On my side, I have COMMON SENSE that indicates that it is highly unlikely that each and every single incarerated Chinese Muslim that is subject to behavior modification and brain washing (how you force someone to stop believing in X and start believing in Y).

A fair minded person can reach their own conclusion.

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:15 utc | 91

(minor edit noted)

I think that the burden of proof is on you, as China is a sovereign nation with the power to write and enforce its own laws.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 17:07 utc | 87

Thank you for making my point. We agree that neither you nor I are in possession of legal facts documenting the necessity for CCP to subject these individuals to inhuman treatment.

On your side, you have your ideological necessity as the driving force of your apologia for CCP's trampling of the Human Rights of Chinese Muslims.

On my side, I have COMMON SENSE that indicates that it is highly unlikely that each and every single incarerated Chinese Muslim that is subject to behavior modification and brain washing (how you force someone to stop believing in X and start believing in Y) committed acts of violence against the state due to their belief in Islam AND sponsorship of some foreign power(s). (emphasized was added)

A fair minded person can reach their own conclusion.

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:19 utc | 92

Mr. VK

Not just "desert nomads" - any kind of Muslim Jihadist (Always Sunni Muslims) - male or female - cannot be incorporated into any state the government of which they would consider either apostate (Muslim states) or Infidel (non-Muslim states).

They might, conceivably be let loose in such areas that there no longer is any form of government: Somalia, Central African Republic, Congo, South Sudan, rural Afghanistan under Talib control.

Posted by: fyi | Jan 22 2021 17:25 utc | 93

Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:15 utc | 91


Thank you for making my point. We agree that neither you nor I are in possession of legal facts documenting the necessity for CCP to subject these individuals to inhuman treatment.

Neither of you are in possession of any facts. You do not even know who, if anybody is in the 'camps' and if they're 'camps' at all.

They sound pretty much like American Boy's Town to me (call that a 'camp' if it makes you happy. You could probably get satellite imagery as well ...):

https://www.boystown.org/locations/Pages/default.aspx

With an attendant set of rumours and scandals that tend to accompany these kinds of institutions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations



Boys Town was founded on December 12, 1917,[1] as an orphanage for boys. Originally known as "The City of Little Men", the organization was founded by Edward J. Flanagan, a Roman Catholic priest, while working in Omaha, Nebraska, who rented a home at 25th and Dodge Streets, in Omaha, to care for five boys, using a loan of $90.[2] From humble beginnings, the City of Little Men pioneered and developed new juvenile care methods in 20th-century America, emphasizing social preparation as a model for public boys' homes worldwide."[3]
.
.
.
In 1988, authorities looked into allegations that prominent citizens of Nebraska, as well as high-level U.S. politicians, were involved in a child prostitution ring.[3] Alleged abuse victims were interviewed, who claimed that children in foster care were flown to the East Coast of the United States to be sexually abused at "bad parties".[4] The claims primarily centered on Lawrence E. King Jr., who ran the now defunct Franklin Community Federal Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, and alleged that the ring was "a cult of devil worshipers involved in the mutilation, sacrifice and cannibalism of numerous children".[3][5] Numerous conspiracy theories evolved, claiming that the alleged abuse was part of a widespread series of crimes including devil worship, cannibalism, drug trafficking, and CIA arms dealing.[3]

These have spread throughout the western world over the decades, along with their own dark mythology to rival the 're-education camps' of Xinjiang ...


On my side, I have COMMON SENSE that indicates that it is highly unlikely that each and every single incarerated Chinese Muslim that is subject to behavior modification and brain washing (how you force someone to stop believing in X and start believing in Y).

A fair minded person can reach their own conclusion.

Ha ha ha. A fair minded person builds on foundations of fact. That's just common sense.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 22 2021 17:32 utc | 94

@vk

"It is hard to imagine Marxism ever reaching Asia without this then never-seen-before emancipation of the oppressed peoples (lead by example)."

What do you mean by "emancipation of the oppressed peoples"?
Also, I don't think it has anything to do with Asian Marxists.

The question is: should their ethnic 'identities' be emphasized, amplified, promoted? Or should they all become, in the end, 'Soviet', just like most of the American ethnic groups used to become 'American'. Before liberals buried the "melting pot" concept, that is.

I guess it's matter of opinion, but in my view, the "melting pot" construct is much more preferable - and much more stable - than than liberal (and Lenin's) multiculturalism.

I agree that in the early years some proclamations of 'ethnic self-determination' were probably useful. But that's tactics, not strategy. It should've been reversed. But it wasn't. And the results are pretty awful. Just look at Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Kyrgyz-Uzbek, Azeri-Armenian conflicts. Nothing like that would have happened if they were all mixed and assimilated into a single national identity.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Jan 22 2021 17:34 utc | 95

Mr. LuRenJia

Chinese government, due to the historical experience of the last 150 years, takes a very very dim view of un-regulated religious organizations in China; including Islam, Christianity (especially Catholicism), Falun Gong and others of the kind.

China has always been an atheistic country - they do not fear God's message - they do not understand God at all.

Posted by: fyi | Jan 22 2021 17:34 utc | 96

@ Posted by: American Muslim | Jan 22 2021 17:19 utc | 92

But the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly favors China's version of the story.

1) An obscure NGO interviewed eight random Uighurs and concluded there were "1 million" dead Uighurs in China's "concentration camps".

2) The claim the term "reeducation camp" is an euphemism to "concentration camp" came exclusively from this NGO and the Western MSM.

3) There are no bodies or images or film to prove the alleged "genocide".

4) Economic and demographic data for Xinjiang - from within and outside China - all indicate the province is flourishing, not shrinking (as is the pattern of a genocided province; see the Roman practice in Ancient times).

5) Coupled with the economic and demographic data, the data on the number of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang since 2009 indicate the reeducation project is working.

6) The links between the CIA and radicalization and formation of Uighur terrorist militias has already been proved, so China's national security arguments are backed up by reality.

7) If there's economic potential for Xinjiang, it is objectively cheaper and more efficient for China to really reeducate and integrate the native Uighur population to China's socialist economy than to waste billions and billions of Dollars in extermination camps that will only destroy future prospects of economic growth for the region. In this case, the Third Reich provides us a practical example of this: by exterminating the Ukrainian population when it was winning on the South Front of WWII, it lost popular support in that region, thus never being able to firmly control it, let alone fully integrate the territory to its war machine. On the other side, the USSR enjoyed heavy popular support in the Nazi occupied areas of Eastern and Southeastern Europe (future Yugoslavia), and was thus able to form, equip and command many partizan militias that worn down the Wehrmacht.

8) Xinjiang is indispensable for the BRI. The last thing China wants to happen is for Xinjiang to become a second Afghanistan. Economic development is essential to avoid this scenario.

Posted by: vk | Jan 22 2021 17:34 utc | 97

"...mouthpiece for a discredited ideology..."

Says a religion fanatic? That is hilarious!

I have a question: Why does the CIA have so little difficulty recruiting their head-chopping death squads from among illiterate Muslims whose only "education" comes from Saudi financed religious schools indoctrination centers?

Question 2: Is there any other way to fix the "graduates" of these Saudi financed religious schools indoctrination centers than killing them? Is gently explaining to them that head-chopping is unacceptable and redirecting their attentions to being productive non-head-chopping members of society better or worse than blasting them into a greasy mist with a Hellfire missile?

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 22 2021 17:39 utc | 98

"...mouthpiece for a discredited ideology..."

Says a religion fanatic? That is hilarious!

I have a question: Why does the CIA have so little difficulty recruiting their head-chopping death squads from among illiterate Muslims whose only "education" comes from Saudi financed religious schools indoctrination centers?

Question 2: Is there any other way to fix the "graduates" of these Saudi financed religious schools indoctrination centers than killing them? Is gently explaining to them that head-chopping is unacceptable and redirecting their attentions to being productive non-head-chopping members of society better or worse than blasting them into a greasy mist with a Hellfire missile?

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 22 2021 17:39 utc | 99

Mr. Roger

It is hard to stop listening to Western propaganda, it is so ubiquitous and is so well presented and packaged so attractively!

I agree with you, Americans did not want to work with the late President Arbenz, the late Dr. Mossadeq, the late Ho Chi Minh, the late Martyred President Allende, the late President Fidel Castro, the late Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba.

They cannot accept independent power centers.

Posted by: fyi | Jan 22 2021 17:40 utc | 100

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