Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 08, 2021

Open Thread 2021-002

News & views ...

Posted by b on January 8, 2021 at 12:44 UTC | Permalink


You know you reached rock bottom when even Mikhail frickin' Gorbachev takes a jab on you:

Gorbachev, once America’s greatest friend in Moscow, believes Capitol invasion calls into question stability of US as a state

Posted by: vk | Jan 8 2021 12:51 utc | 1

vk @1

I am always shocked to see he is still alive and not hanging by some lamppost for high treason.

Posted by: Abe | Jan 8 2021 12:58 utc | 2

@nr2 Abe

High treason, where, what? Did I miss something then ? I think not. The Soviet Union was doomed,
virtually bankrupt, its population queuing for almost everything, DDR likewise and Poland too, I have seen it in all three places. Oh, you could get everything if you had dollars!
Poland 1975: 1 kg of Russian Caviar and 4 bottles of the best Crimean Champagne :$10 !
Russia: Brand new Makarow, 9 mm, and 100 shots $20 including nice shoulder holster too in leather $30
But ordinary people did not have $, only the nomenclature had $. A totally corrupt and failed system in all the Eastern block. I was there then, saw it, and I have not forgotten.
So it was high time for change, and yes it would be tough, but the eastern people are tough people ( and hospitable, very indeed)so they stood it out.
Abe, take a trip to Russia and speak to some older people, so you may stop posting nonsense!

Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 8 2021 13:28 utc | 3

Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 8 2021 13:28 utc | 3

Thanks for the truth

Posted by: jo6pac | Jan 8 2021 13:37 utc | 4

If you're an American, you might want to stock up on Stoli and beluga before the new regime settles in. Toilet paper, too.

Posted by: bob sykes | Jan 8 2021 13:48 utc | 5

@3 @4

Him and his underlings, along with its successor Yeltsin (died too soon, unfortunately) are directly responsible for millions of dead and destroyed lives in Russia in the `90-ties. But I sense you are from countries that now grow unhealthy and pathological hate towards Russian people, so as far you are concerned, it was great period, right?

Posted by: Abe | Jan 8 2021 13:54 utc | 6

Blame the Soviets for the economy of places ravaged by war and sabotaged by the West? Remember the Eastern Front suffered the majority of action. Russia itself suffered the worst and had to rebuild more than anybody, whereas USA factories easily re-supplied Western Europe.

Eastern Europeans better guard against being played by the West into fighting Russia again. They allied with Western-financed Hitler the last time. So, I’m a little worried they’ll be conned again.

Posted by: oglalla | Jan 8 2021 13:56 utc | 7

@ Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 8 2021 13:28 utc | 3

But another world was possible. We can see that now through China.

The USSR could've reformed and opened up like China did, and would be in a much better situation than what really happened (Yeltsin's neoliberal genocide).

Posted by: vk | Jan 8 2021 13:56 utc | 8

Let’s commemorate the last bullet.
On January 3rd 2020 the empire committed suicide for fear of death (the Soleimani affair).
On January 8th 2020 Iran delivered the bullet to make sure the empire stays dead.
Long live the clothesless emperor.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jan 8 2021 14:07 utc | 9

Posted this on the previous thread but better on an open thread. Pretty informative imo.

A look at the different vaccines under development, and where they are in the pipeline

Posted by: arby | Jan 8 2021 14:14 utc | 10

Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 8 2021 13:28 utc | 3

If you talk to older people in Russia they'll tell you how deeply they despise the "marked one" as they call him. Millions died because of the rock star -in the west- Gorby and the sinister and even worse than Gorby Yeltsyn the drunkard. A simple reform would have done it, as the Chinese crushing the vermin in TianAnMen demonstrated.

Posted by: Paco | Jan 8 2021 14:15 utc | 11

Holy Moly! The most globalist and interventionist Pope since the Crusades of the 12th Century has formalized an alliance with the largest figures in global finance led by none other than that noble banking family, Rothschild. The new alliance is a joint venture they call “Council for Inclusive Capitalism with the Vatican.” The venture is one of the more cynical and given the actors, most dangerous frauds being promoted since Davos WEF guru and Henry Kissinger protégé, Klaus Schwab, began to promote the Great Reset of the world capitalist order.

The Dangerous Alliance of Rothschild and the Vatican of Francis

Posted by: Down South | Jan 8 2021 14:17 utc | 12

Very interesting that Mitch McConnell's wife was the first cabinet member to bail.

Posted by: Morongobill | Jan 8 2021 14:21 utc | 13


'The UK is in a deficit (of electricity) by about 7% of its annual requirements. Undersea cables linking the UK’s grid to mostly nuclear power stations in France and the Netherlands make up this deficit.'

'the French government tied the UK’s access to bulk electric power to European Union (EU) fishing access in UK waters. Both fishing rights and electricity access will be up for renegotiation at the same time in 2026.'


It seems that the British have just given the French effective control over their electricity market, while at the same time adopting a 'climate action plan' that will make them substantially more dependent on French electricity.

So much for British independence!

Posted by: dh-mtl | Jan 8 2021 14:26 utc | 14

For anyone who believes trump has an ounce of credabilty left this audio tape should take the blind fold off.


Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 8 2021 14:47 utc | 16

Do we need the vaccines?

Yet another doctor suggesting Ivermectin.

On December 9th, Dr. Pierre Kory – representing the most published group of physicians in Pulmanary & Critical Care – PLEADS with NIH to review their data that shows Ivermectin is nearly entirely effective against Covid-19. In one hospital, giving a group of 400 healthcare workers this drug, not one got sick. Alternatively, the remaining 400 that did NOT receive the drug suffered a 58% infection rate.

Posted by: Ric G | Jan 8 2021 15:17 utc | 18

+US and EU demand China release citizen reporter Zhang Zhan, locked up for covering Wuhan coronavirus outbreak - SCMP

West fools and ruthlessly exploits so-called ‘citizen journalist’ Zhang Zhan -+

Note to the Eight Nations Alliance pirates.

Dont get too uppity with that 'human rights B.S.
Two can play at this game.

Its getting real tiresome, this whitey hypocrisy.

The Chinese should organise a UN probe into EU, FUKUS genocides in Iraq, Kosovo, LIbya, Syria, Yemen, Afghan..just to name a few.

There'r many impeccable eye witness,
all they need is a platform to testify.

Those who think they know all about Iraq , Nam etc ,think again,.
YOu dont really know the kind of depravity committed in your name,

Exhibit A
Iraq at ground zero.

Obstinate memories of Iraq and other places we have destroyed

Tip of an iceberg

I normally like to highlight the nub of a linked article but every sentence in this expose' stings like hell, dunno where to start.
It merits a thorough read....only for those who still have their hearts at the right place.

This question makes me sit up,
'Are they trying to destroy the food chain'

Does it rings a bell ???

A friendly spoiler,
The following species shouldnt bother, I dont want them to waster their time.

[My tribe right or wrong] wing nut
[CIA is doing the right stuff in Xinjiang, Tibet] libtards
[Nuke China, problems solved] HIQ idiots.


Posted by: denk | Jan 8 2021 15:29 utc | 19

@Den lille abe | Jan 8 2021 13:28 utc | 3
Well said!

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 8 2021 15:31 utc | 20

'But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.'

The train of abuses (short, 4 year recap)

Crossfire Hurricane delegitimised peaceful handover of executive power.

Fake impeachment delegitimised the impeachment process.

Executive overreach due to covid delegitimised the authority of state legislatures.

Scam election delegitimised the election process.

Putting Trump on trial will delegitimise executive privilege.

These plus the previous suspentions of habeas corpus, due process death of the first amendment, imply that the constitution is for the most part de facto dead.

The protest should have been a sit in instead of some larking around, Tiannamen style (for the inevitable lols US hypocrisy would reveal).

Still, Congress has had single digit approval ratings for decades, so it's odd to say these were insurrectionists attacking the people's representatives.

Sadly America is finished, and what is left can only be called 'the nation formerly known as America'.

The incoming fascists and their unwitting kapos won't have much time even with those embers, as its economy was long carved out, in ikizukuri fashion.

Posted by: Ilya G Poimandres | Jan 8 2021 15:31 utc | 21

@Sakineh Bagoom | Jan 8 2021 14:07 utc | 9

On January 3rd 2020 the empire committed suicide for fear of death (the Soleimani affair).
On January 8th 2020 Iran delivered the bullet to make sure the empire stays dead.
Long live the clothesless emperor.

Very good point. Exactly one year later the obituary was written.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 8 2021 15:35 utc | 22
It gets increasingly common to see where China displays a new milestones they reach and salty USAians would flock in the comments sections.

I really hope they can learn a touch of humility especially right now where they're in obvious decline instead of trying to shift blame and pretend it doesn't have problem.

Posted by: Lucci | Jan 8 2021 15:36 utc | 23

@arby | Jan 8 2021 14:42 utc | 15

‘Completely untrustworthy’: Iran BANS import of coronavirus vaccines from US and Britain

The Iranians are very wise people. Maybe this is the kind of 'natural selection' that will increase the average IQ in the world.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 8 2021 15:40 utc | 24

It is curious that in one of the articles MoA wrote that, in his opinion (which I share), there are now two superpowers - the United States and Russia, while China is only on the way to this.

But Chinese journalists think differently - for example, in this article (very controversial, btw) the author asks the question "Russia has the potential to become a superpower, what are the factors preventing it from doing this?" At the same time, apparently, the journalist believes that the current superpowers are China and the United States, while "something prevents" Russia from becoming such.

Just one quote from the article:

The distance between Russia and the superpower is still very large, and not only because of the country's "internal problems" - the United States is also constraining and restraining Russia by all means. It is not easy to become a superpower.

Posted by: alaff | Jan 8 2021 15:43 utc | 25

Paco @11

"If you talk to older people in Russia they'll tell you how deeply they despise the "marked one" as they call him."

I know there are multiple perspectives when assessing Gorbachev's legacy, but I also encountered that reaction often during my time there by old and young alike. It was a surprise to me as I had assumed he would be universally accepted in a positive light as he is in the west.

Asking them why they felt that way, a common response was that he had been too trusting of the US promises, which ushered in the looting and manipulation of the 90's. Many mentioned Baker's promise to Gorbachev that if East Germany went to the west, NATO would not move "one inch to the east", and Gorbachev's failure to get that in writing. (Not to say the US would have honored it even then, of course, but at least some proof to show the west's duplicity).

Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 8 2021 15:55 utc | 26

[email protected] "The USSR could've reformed and opened up like China did, and would be in a much better situation than what really happened (Yeltsin's neoliberal genocide)."

This is nonsense. That's exactly what Gorbachev did. The relative stagnation of the USSR turned into an economic catastrophe under Gorbachev who dismantled a still-functional economy. Yeltsin's neoliberalism was a continuation of Gorbachev's economics. Yeltsin's revolution was not to impose a new policy but to smash the opposition to the new policy, to carry it out ruthlessly, to concentrate the theft of public property in Great Russian hands. China's opening up was deliberately fostered by the western powers as a way of separating the socialist powers. There was never going to be any such opening up with Europe, not for the USSR. There wasn't in NEP in the Twenties. This absurd counterfactual misreads what happened with the capitalist roaders in China.

There also seems to be some nonsense lurking about how the Cultural Revolution was a gigantic catastrophe. Of course, though no one cares to notice, if this was true, then India would have had all those years to race ahead of China, not being cursed with such a nightmare. In truth, the Cultural Revolution brought many benefits to the countryside in particular, and still progressed the economy as a whole. Then after the murderous Deng took over, there wasn't any magical Great Leap Forward on IOUs to Imperialism as he promised. For years and years, the wonders of reform and opening up delivered not much faster (at all?) than the previous system. Not even the notorious Southern Tour was so miraculous. The failure to deliver on his overblown promises is why the students at Tien An Men square were so worried about getting good jobs commensurate with their higher elite status, reaffirmed by Deng. Only after decades did the economic conjuncture finally lead to rapid growth...but at a tremendous social cost still denied by too many. The iron rice bowl was broken long before the privilege of working for a capitalist firm started to really pay.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 8 2021 15:58 utc | 27

Lucci @23

Well, the Chinese invented fireworks. I suppose it shouldn't surprise that history has come full circle on that and the modern improvement on fireworks, mammoth drone displays, should be dominated by the Chinese too.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 8 2021 16:17 utc | 28

The first month of COVID vaccine administration has been a fiasco. Yes, you can lay the blame at the feet of Trump. But Democrats also signed onto legislation that, rather than using established distribution channels, required entirely new ones.

Medicare is bad enough. It’s hard to know when vaccines are administered by pharmacists, physicians, or both. But COVID vaccination is total chaos. 21 million doses have been distributed. 16 million of them sit in storage.

Some vaccine has been administered in hospitals, some in nursing homes, some by public health authorities, and some to Emergency Medical workers, police and firemen. But distribution is spotty and unpredictable.

As 15 million vaccines languish in storage, a huge, highly vulnerable group—60 million on Medicare—have absolutely no idea when or where to get vaccinated. Though data is hard to come by, probably half are over age 75. They are the most vulnerable. 16 million of them could be vaccinated today with vaccine sitting on the shelf.

Nothing illustrates more clearly the dysfunction of the US healthcare “system” or the urgent need to rationalize it. The COVID response has been slapdash and incoherent from the outset, from testing, to distribution of masks (mostly homemade) to administration of vaccines.

No matter how dire the situation, politicians mostly just sit on their hands. True, some are wringing their hands and complaining a bit. But none have seized the opportunity to point out that this disaster is symptomatic of the dysfunctionality of the US healthcare system in general. There are currently no demands, even by Bernie, for Medicare for All. There seems to be nothing on the drawing board to create a more robust, streamlined public health system designed to scale up fast in the event of a crisis.

Businesses so regularly take advantage of disasters that the phenomenon became known as disaster capitalism. But such a concept is well beyond the imagination of political elites, who could think of nothing better than to slap another patch onto the patchwork that is ironically called the US healthcare system. Even highly educated economists at a blog I comment on would rather defend Democrats failures than acknowledge the need for them to seize the moment to rally the American people behind healthcare reform.

Nothing illustrates better than COVID the implosion of the US political system into an ossified, unresponsive caricature of the thing that elites like to hype as a democracy of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Posted by: JohnH | Jan 8 2021 16:24 utc | 29

A good article from Serge Halimi in Counterpunch today:
As the Biden imperium approaches it is becoming clear that the Establishment narrative is that the Empire is back in business. Normal service is being resumed and Victoria Nuland is back at the top of the State Department to push her husband's weird policies.
This is bad news, of course, Trump was bad but largely because the Blob knew how to play him: accuse him of being a tool of the Kremlin and he would send missiles to Poland and Rumania; accuse him of pandering to China and he would immediately attack their trade... It was like playing with a naughty child-crude reverse psychology combined with appeals to his vanity.
With Biden there is no need for such games-he does what he is told. His only weakness is that he is greedy- the bribery farce in Ukraine is the story of Joe's life. So the Blob will be back in command, not just of the United States but of all the countries its agents rule (Canada, the UK, the EU, Australia etc etc...)
My guess is that the first move will be to win back Turkey, which will be a matter of money and to get back to the work of destroying any country looking askance at Israel.
The good news is that, before Trump took over, the US, under Obama and his bosses in Arlington was steering a course towards national bankruptcy and military defeat. Trump might have been an idiot who never achieved anything but at least he realised that the course the USA was steering could only lead to its destruction.
It is that course that is being resumed. And all else, silly chatter about coups and race wars, legal actions against the retiring President, huffing and puffing signifying nothing is just a smokescreen so that nobody discusses, let alone thinks about, the Great Game of the C21st, splitting central asia apart and encouraging Russia, China and Iran to reverse the tendency to solidify eurasia against the Pirate Empire.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 8 2021 16:25 utc | 30

Gorbachev was stabbed in the back by Reagan and betrayed by an America that pretended to want peace with Russia. His crime was being naive, believing that America would keep its promises, when even a cursory glance at history shows that America NEVER does. Yeltsin was a brave but drunken fool who thought that Harvard Economics meant prosperity instead of debt servitude. Fortunately there was Putin to save Russia from total disaster and deny America the rich prize it thought it had within its grasp. And that is why America is insane with hatred for Russia and Putin. And now Russia is strong, China is strong, and mighty America's foundations are cracking under the weight of all that wealth held by a tiny handful.
Interesting times.

Posted by: pasha | Jan 8 2021 16:35 utc | 31

@Den lille abe #3
Gorbachev is rightly considered a traitor by Russians because
1) He believed lies about NATO not expanding
2) He believed lies that free markets and democracy would make Russia a better place
3) He didn't understand or didn't want to understand that Russia's issues were a function of the price of subsidizing the Warsaw Pact and US economic warfare.

Russia needed to give up the Warsaw Pact - but giving up entirely was not the only way to do that.

The prosperity enjoyed by some of the ex-Warsaw pact (not all by any means) is partly due to their hard work, but also significantly due to massive subsidies poured into those countries by the US and EU after their change in status, and no longer being under economic sanctions.
But for every Poland, there's Latvia: 30% of the population - mostly those under the age of 30 - have left.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 8 2021 17:08 utc | 32

@pasha #31
Indeed, and the disaster of the 1990s in Russia helped China understand exactly what not to do as they experimented with free market dynamics.
The theft of natural resources and state companies by both Russian and foreign actors was largely avoided in China. Equally, China avoided a lot of the de-industrialization Russia experienced post-Soviet Union as well - if anything, possibly too much so.
Joint venture, technology transfer rules, capital controls, the list of things implemented by China because of Russian and Japanese examples is endless.
The distraction of US triumphalism, post-Berlin Wall, was very likely also a factor in Kissinger not being able to prevail vs. Brzezinski - Kissinger saying China was the bigger threat while Brzezinski was the sexy spokesmodel for the anti-Russian clique.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 8 2021 17:17 utc | 33

Revenge of the Nerds this is the link to the The Trump, Trump Jr, and Kimberly Guilfoyle partying video. I call it revenge of the nerds because Trump when your underlings are fed up with you they know how to hit back. They start leaking phone calls and videos like this. At the start of his Presidency it was the Security State preserving the Cold Wars but now its the next tier.

I know that MoA loves Trump, I mean really loves Trump but no matter what good is in him, to me it is obvious that he is a bully and everyone loves to see a bully get taken down a notch after they can't use him for their own gain. It really is a disgusting spectacle.

BTW I used to like 'Gloria', this kind of ruins it for me.

Bullying 2.0 Giuliani trying to delay vote on certification, seriously what was the principal indoing that? These guys are thugs.
And we have all heard the Raffensperger call by now well ... GLORRIA, I THINK THEY LOST YOUR NUMBER !!!

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Jan 8 2021 17:24 utc | 34

@ 31 pasha... bingo.... thanks...

Posted by: james | Jan 8 2021 17:53 utc | 36

When you have a narcissistic manchild with dreams of being a potentate because he knows better than anyone how to MAGA and that could take another 4 to 8 years or maybe until he kicks the bucket and gets a glorious horse-drawn carriage brass band parade send off for having transformed America and the world with his superior intellect and greatness what you really have is a threat to Democracy on your hands.

Luckily for all, this fool Trump with illusions of grandeur doesn't like to get his hands dirty, cause bringing a coup to fruition is dirty, criminal business, and although Trump likes to tiptoe over the line, he's very careful not to incriminate himself. That job is for other beings he considers lesser than his absolute greatness, not indispensable and therefore expendable to his much superior cause or MAGA vision.

So again, I stress, the only reason Trump's fantasy coup did not succeed is because his MAGA cult are unwilling to go the distance for him and organizing a coup only with cautious subliminal suggestion and direction and repeated stirring of the pot as in: They defrauded you; they stole the Election, and you have to show strength and do something about it. ain't gonna cut it.

What we witnessed is a part of the MAGA cult interrupting the Congressional Certification, ransacking and desecrating the Capitol Building, using flagpoles and other items as weapons but not using firearms to take complete control.

Trump was headed in the soft coup direction. First he appointed hundreds of judges and an unprecedented 3 Supreme Court justices. Then he spent over $100 billion more than Obama each year for military funding, and revoked Obama's Executive Order that banned providing police with surplus military equipment thus further militarizing the police and massaging police egos in every speech on the BLM protests, in essence bribing for loyalty.

And then he stated this in an interview with Breitbart.:

I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don't play it tougher.

I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump - I have the tough people, but they don't play it tough - until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad, Trump said.

Not to mention that he egged on his supporters to knock the crap out of Sanders' protesters at his rallies and he would pay their legal fees.

So how far did Trump take his intended coup?

He started to delegitimize the Election BEFORE people started voting.

He used the USPS to try to slow down mail-in voting so it would be received past the deadline, and repeatedly encouraged his supporters to vote in person.

Since Election day same-day ballots were being counted first; he demanded the counting stop after he was leading in the same-day tally.

He railed against the counting of mail-in ballots that were stamped, cross-checked for authenticity and certified to be legal calling them fraudulent.

Then he filed dozens of lawsuits delusionally thinking the judges and justices he appointed, precisely for their fealty at a moment like this, would overturn the official election results.

Boy, was he gobsmacked when they stuck to the law and didn't return the favor!

Then he summoned the Republican Electors in swing states to get them to vote against the majority result.

Then, when that failed, Trump tried to get his lackey Attorney General to overturn the Election, but he refused to dirty his hands for Trump, like Michael Cohen and others who paid a price, and so resigned instead.

Then he called Republican State officials coercing, cajoling and threatening.

Then he tried to get Mitch McConnell to round up a majority in the Senate to overturn the results, but Mitch wouldn't dirty his hands for Trump reversing an 81 million vote majority either, so the best Trump could do is get Ted Cruz and a couple of others to lick his boots.

Phew! Thankfully none of all that coup stratagem worked.

So all along he was using social media to incite his supporters to fever pitch thinking they might take the initiative to organize nationwide demonstrations like BLM did for George Floyd against police brutality and injustice that stretched beyond the U.S. into Canada and Europe.

So when that hint didn't work so well or set off viral protests, all the while ranting and raving daily continuing to raise the temperature, he organized his own demonstration in D.C. through social media on the very day Congress would certify the Election bringing his slavish, there's-no-indignity-I-won't-perform-for Ziofascist-Trump Giuliani freak and clown car with him.

Cause he was was counting now on his tough guys; you know, the bikers, the military and the police he bragged were with him. Not so sure the Bikers showed, but there were some off-duty police and military. And he stirred the crowd and encouraged them to March on the Capitol Building with him, but then neither he nor Guiliani showed their face with the mob that broke into the building, because the scoundrels knew exactly what they were inciting rubbing salt and lies into the wounded cult members' psyche, and so made themselves scarce to wash their dirty hands of the result.

Trump just can't believe his judges, his justices, the right-wing cabal that defended him so earnestly during the impeachment hearings, didn't step up, and his tough people, bikers, truckers, cowboys and construction guys didn't show up with their Harleys, lit-up 18 wheelers, and lifted pick-ups revving their engines raring to return the throne to Trump.

Poor, miserable, wretched MAGA-legend-in-his-own-mind, Trump. But hey! He got this guy and his posse to show up for him! :

Trump coup possee

You know why? Because the horned-trapper guy perfectly represents Trump and the Trump MAGA era: delusion and a really bad dream.

Trump is an embarrassment to the world and himself and that's his shameful legacy.

But, stop the presses! Here's one guy who really, really enjoyed the Trump ride.:

Mona Lisa's brother by another mother

Call ACME movers to come and crate the disgraced orange primate in the White House. It's finally get that outrage out of the People's House!

I rest my case.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 8 2021 17:57 utc | 37

Posted by: dh-mtl | Jan 8 2021 14:26 utc | 14

There's a more complex story than this, but in summary in 2009, British Energy was acquired by Électricité de France (EDF); and was rebranded to EDF Energy. EDF have a Control Centre in Gloucester where any British Nuclear power station can be run by remote. There is also a Dealer area for market traders for the buying (and selling) of UK power requirements by overseas suppliers. People who voted for Brexit without understanding the realities of dependency on Continental Europe only have themselves to blame for any predicament caused by it.

Posted by: Mercury | Jan 8 2021 18:12 utc | 38

@Circe | Jan 8 2021 17:57 utc | 37

I rest my case.

LOL, I don't think so :-)

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 8 2021 18:16 utc | 39

This is maybe what one could call "Leaving In style"
Miami Doctor Dies After Receiving First Dose Of Pfizer Vaccine

What a great idea, 'vaccinate' against something completely harmless and die from the 'cure'. This is Darwin award material.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 8 2021 18:24 utc | 40

It was a surprise to me as I had assumed he would be universally accepted in a positive light as he is in the west.

Прошу прощения, но почему мы должны положительно оценивать Горбачева? С вашей точки зрения он безусловно хороший парень, ведь благодаря ему коллективный запад смог одержать геополитическую победу над социалистическим лагерем. Но с нашей точки зрения Горбачев безусловный предатель, сдавший Родину ради возможности сняться в рекламе пиццы. Из-за него распалась наша страна,из-за него границы террористической организации НАТО приблизились к нашим границам. Горбачёв и Ельцин виновники того бардака, что был в России в 90-е. Спасибо, мы наелись вашей хвалённой "демократии" и в дружбу с западом давно не верим.

Posted by: RR | Jan 8 2021 18:25 utc | 41

" ... 18 U.S.C. § 2384. According to the statutory definition of sedition, it is a crime for two or more people within the jurisdiction of the United States:

To conspire to overthrow or destroy by force the government of the United States or to level war against them;
To oppose by force the authority of the United States government; to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States; or
To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof."

It would appear that by forcing their way into the Capitol, the rioters have breached the 3rd sub-section of the statute governing sedition.

If it can be found that Trump encouraged or abetted their actions, he could be charged with conspiracy supporting sedition.

Posted by: chet380 | Jan 8 2021 19:33 utc | 42

This is the Scottish version of brutality. The girl who had a seizure had just been released from Hospital and has been "Charged".

The police chief defended *charging* the girl after her seizure & told press of a 'house party'. We can confirm only the 2 children were at home with the 2 adults seen in the video.

Somewhere all illusions about "fairness" and "Judgement" when applied to Police forces must be seen for what they are, "civil terrorism". (Terrorism ON civils, not the other way round)

Posted by: Stonebird | Jan 8 2021 19:58 utc | 43


To oppose by force the authority of the United States government; to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States; or
To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.

-These are the operative clauses that Trump could be charged with having abetted, encouraged and/or inspired.

Trump's cult mob forced their way into the capital to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of Congressional Election protocol: a vote to make the Election results legally binding confirming the new President and Vice-President.

There is no doubt crimes have been committed; and Trump will probably issue a self-pardon, a pardon for Giuliani and let's see if he throws his ready, susceptible and responsive cult mob under the bus. They might take the fall.

Stand back and stand by. Yes, Mr. Trump, words have consequences, and you knew that when you spoke them!

Posted by: Circe | Jan 8 2021 20:25 utc | 44

It's my understanding that from 1953 to 1991, from Khrushchev to Gorbachev, the Soviet leadership was dominated by people with personal family ties in Ukraine. During these years Moscow invested heavily in the industrial development of the Ukrainian SSR. Much of Soviet aerospace industry in particular was located there. When the USSR broke up in 1991, the RSFSR (the current Russian Federation) lost a major part of the USSR's industrial base and this helps to account for the political and economic chaos in Russia during the 1990s.

Putin's achievements in rebuilding Russia over the past 20 years become all the more remarkable against this historical background, especially when compared to the wreck that Ukraine has become despite the largesse bestowed upon it by the post-Stalinist Soviet leadership: largesse that should have been distributed out among all parts of the Soviet Union.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 8 2021 20:34 utc | 45

September 29,2020

Proud boys, stand back and stand by.

January 6, 2020 and on twitter

Green light.

The cult got their leader's blessing, period!


Game, set, match.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 8 2021 20:37 utc | 46

The real terrorists in the USA have been manipulating the USA and killing their opponents for the past century.

Take a close look at Biden to be sure he is not a member of the Scottish Rite.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 8 2021 20:42 utc | 47

Could this spectacle be the 'creative destruction' so famously advocated by the bloodthirsty Ziocon fascists Douglas Feith and Michael Ledeen ?

Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our own society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity, which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. Seeing America undo traditional societies, they fear us, for they do not wish to be undone. They cannot feel secure so long as we are there, for our very existence—our existence, not our politics—threatens their legitimacy. They must attack us in order to survive, just as we must destroy them to advance our historic mission

Posted by: Paul | Jan 8 2021 21:01 utc | 48

No free lunch for you, peasant!

BREAKING: Sen. Joe Manchin (http://D-W.Va.) says "absolutely not" to a round of $2,000 stimulus checks

West Virginia ranks 50th in income - out of 50.

Posted by: vk | Jan 8 2021 21:07 utc | 49

New video footage released of the massive Nashville Christmas morning explosion:

Taken from a rooftop security camera at the Acme Feed & Seed music bar and restaurant, located ~250 m SSE from the hardened AT&T communications hub/node on 2nd Ave N.


After an intensive two week period of FBI evidence sifting and State-of-the-Art forensic analysis work at the crime scene of the evil, but apparently motiveless, so far, *Lee RV Oswald* Lone Bomber,

the FBI has come to the tentative conclusion that some sort of unknown advanced Alien technology was involved, which must have been communicated by Lizard People, either telepathically or by interdimensionally modulated, 5G microwaves, directly into the twisted, yet brilliant brain of the lone bomber.

Posted by: gm | Jan 8 2021 21:41 utc | 50

vk #49

So the grifting continues. What will be the Joe and Joe deal? They will both want a cut. Maybe the US Army base in West Virginia will get a special expansion budget ;)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 8 2021 22:15 utc | 51

AOC speaks on hypocrisy and the cause of rioting. She is responding to Ted Cruz tweet.

"Your complete refusal to acknowledge any of the above harm, wrongdoing, or even misjudgement; & your lack of any self-reflection in how these acts contributed to yesterday’s chaos is alarming. It is unbecoming of any elected official and makes you unfit for the office you occupy."


I figure she was tweeting while in the echo chamber reflecting on #FraudSquad reporting by Jimmy, Briahna and Katie.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 8 2021 23:14 utc | 52

@Jen #45
You said:

Much of Soviet aerospace industry in particular was located there. When the USSR broke up in 1991, the RSFSR (the current Russian Federation) lost a major part of the USSR's industrial base and this helps to account for the political and economic chaos in Russia during the 1990s.

Incorrect. There were specific programs located there, but it was not a primary (i.e. most important) aerospace equipment development center.
The chaos occurred because of central planning: specifically that the USSR planners had distributed manufacturing capabilities across many different SSRs - not thinking that the USSR would ever break up. One example is that there was one large iodine production facility the bulk of iodized salt production for entire Soviet Union in Ukraine - with the fall of the USSR - Ukrainian capacity declined and the country became "foreign".
Just imagine what would happen if Texas really did secede. Much of NorthEastern oil and natural gas come from Texas via pipelines...

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 8 2021 23:21 utc | 53

@ uncle tungsten 47

thanks for the link. I have read about the Scottish Rite before I think they began in exile in France as supporters of Bonny Prince Charley. My friends father was in it, but I suspect it was because of his Scottish ancestors.

Posted by: Paul | Jan 8 2021 23:25 utc | 54

uncle tungsten | Jan 8 2021 20:42 utc | 47

Thanks for the link and the read, the Oracle we should note used Bay leaves to receive visions. One can make a powerful immune boost and "dream enhancer" from crushed Bay leaves. Getting back to Scottish Rite, keep in mind that Robert Fleming (Private Banker) founded his firm by creating and selling bonds in US Railcars in 1840's+ This trade was reinforced by hiring in fellow Scotsman Allan Pinkerton to run security against those who'd try to steal from their investors. Sometime later Fleming hauled freight for Rockefeller's Standard Oil, and Pinkerton's developed as default Security for Bankers.

Allan Pinkerton met Chicago attorney Edward Rucker in a Masonic Hall and formed the North-Western Police Agency, later Pinkerton Agency."
Pinkerton "Agency played a key role in destroying the Molly Maguires, who had their origins in an older secret society. He was also deeply involved in the pursuit of Jesse James, who was, of course, reputed to have been both a Mason and a member of the Knights of the Golden Circle." ....what a web!

Posted by: Mercury | Jan 9 2021 0:06 utc | 55

I recently stumbled about this article making the claim that the CoV-SARS-2 virus might have been created artificially and unintentionally escaped a Chinese research lab. I have so far dismissed such claimes as obviously unfounded and easily recognizeable attempts to make China look bad but I have to admit that this one is frighteningly convincing.

What do you people think? It`s a rather lengthy article but worth reading in full.

Posted by: m | Jan 9 2021 0:12 utc | 56

Logistics wins - and loses - wars, my friends:

66% of New York City’s Vaccine Doses Sit Unused as Virus Numbers Soar: Small numbers of doses have even been thrown out as the city’s mass inoculation campaign gets off to a dispiriting start.

No use in having that shining and pimped up vaccine - that needs a mambo-jumbo state-of-the-art refrigerating system to be stockpiled - if it spoils before getting to the patient.

Posted by: vk | Jan 9 2021 0:12 utc | 57

Jen @ 45--

Why I really enjoy this board.

Your info on Ukraine fits what I have wondered about. Why all the high tech things like planes and rocket engines, etc., seem to have been in Ukraine. Fits with a gift of Crimea to Ukraine as well.

Posted by: arby | Jan 9 2021 0:38 utc | 58

@ uncle tungsten | Jan 8 2021 20:42 utc | 47

Just to wrap things up with a little more finesse, If one gets into Allan Pinkerton's story you'll find his company logo was (and still is) the masonic all seeing eye. Pinkerton was the provider of security to Lincoln until for reasons unknown he suddenly wasn't. The book that really goes into it is:
Why was Lincoln Murdered and there's a nice little blog about the back story here.

It's curious that the Great Uncle of 007 author Ian Fleming (who wrote of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and "Taking over the world fantasies") ...Ian's Great Uncle Robert Fleming who started the FF&P exclusive Banking business and distributed for Rockefeller's - should be so closely connected to a security provider to a murdered President (Lincoln), Ironic then 2 generations later that Fleming Bank should be sold to Chase Manhattan - whose Chair (earlier) was John J McCloy (Great Uncle to Trump Admin.'s William Barr) - McCoy succeeded Rockefeller as LIFETIME Chair to the CFR - so McCloy's loyalty was obviously beyond all question. - Perhaps it's also not surprising that John J. McCloy was also the lead attorney for the Oil Cartel, or Seven Sisters incl. Rockefeller's Standard Oil.)

Sometime later it was Lyndon Johnson who was spotted in Dallas backrooms with Clint Murchison Sr., H.L. Hunt, Nelson Rockefeller, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, George Herbert Walker Bush and Gen. Edward Lansdale, Allen Dulles, John J McCloy (again!) along with Johnson's close friend and neighbor of 19 years in Washington, DC FBI director J. Edgar Hoover for smokey deals in '63 which kind of completes the picture, killing Presidents...quite possibly seems to run in the family.... Perhaps there's more truth in the old Bond stories than we thought? "hidden in plain sight " as they say?

Posted by: Mercury | Jan 9 2021 1:27 utc | 59

Turn off the sound , look at the images.
I was a coup attempt pure an simple.

Simple also describes those that attempted to do so.

The USA is in decline, get used to it.

Posted by: Melvin | Jan 9 2021 1:52 utc | 60

RE: New video footage released of the massive Nashville Christmas morning explosion:

-gm | Jan 8 2021 21:41 utc | 50

I'll be darned....they disappeared the video footage from that link....Wonder why?

It was huge explosion with a pointy thingy/lobe extending from the top of it, as I recall.

Posted by: gm | Jan 9 2021 2:12 utc | 61

@ mercury 59

I appreciate your scholarship, then making the connections.

Some trivia, Ian Fleming's character James Bond, drove an Aston Martin, while Fleming himself drove a Studebaker Avanti, much faster.

Further to my comment @54

Perhaps my friends father was also in the Scottish Rite because it gave him the opportunity to wear his kilt, but wasn't J Edgar Hoover into cross dressing?

Posted by: Paul | Jan 9 2021 2:26 utc | 62

gm #61

It was huge explosion with a pointy thingy/lobe extending from the top of it, as I recall.

I saw that too and assumed it was an airborne gas bottle in its death throes. Lots of glowing hot debris rained down after. odd that the vid was deleted.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 2:54 utc | 63

mercury #59 etc.

Thank you, fascinating material. Interesting chap was John McCloy.

So where does one go to know of the immediate circumstances of the Biden administration and its relationship with Scottish Rite.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 3:08 utc | 64

gm #61

I just watched video again at yr link ??? still bright.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 3:12 utc | 65

@ uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 3:12 utc | 65

Thanks for letting us know its up again.

Watching the footage again, that 2nd Ave AT&T annex Bldg. must be at least 10 stories (40 m) high, and the blast rose >2x the building height...Pretty big explosion...

Posted by: gm | Jan 9 2021 3:32 utc | 66

Down South #12

Intriguing report, thank you. What then the fate of Lady Ghislane Maxwell? Will she be released on bail as she may be "suicidal" and then vanish?

I guess Joe Biden will oblige for his old friend Bill or Hillary.

First off it is useful to see who are the “inclusive” capitalists joining forces with the Pope and Vatican. The founder is a lady who carries the name Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild. She is the wife of the 90-year old retired mega-billionaire head of London’s NM Rothschilds Bank, Sir Evelyn de Rothschild...

It is interesting to note, that the same Lynn Forester in 1991, before she took Sir Evelyn as her husband, generously let a British friend have full use of one of Lynn’s Manhattan apartment properties, following the apparent murder of the woman’s father, British media tycoon and Mossad agent, Robert Maxwell. The British friend of Lynn, Ghislaine Maxwell, today is awaiting trial for complicity in child sex trafficking as the partner of Jeffrey Epstein. Maxwell reportedly maintained the Manhattan address of Lady Lynn until very recently to register a bizarre non-profit called Terramar that she and Epstein set up in 2012, allegedly aimed at saving our oceans. When Epstein was arrested she quickly dissolved the non-profit. One of the donors to Ghislaine’s TerraMar was something called the Clinton Foundation, which leads to the next friend.

Lady Lynn has another long-time friend named Hillary Clinton, whose husband, Bill, was also logged on Epstein’s Lolita Express private jet, around two dozen times. Lynn and her new husband, Sir Evelyn, in fact were so close to the Clintons that in 2000 the Rothschild newlyweds spent part of their honeymoon as guests at the White House of Mr and Mrs Clinton. Lady Lynn after that became a major fund-raiser in 2008 and again 2016 for a possible Hillary bid for President, called a “bundler.” She also advised Hillary on her economic program, a free market one based on Adam Smith as she described it in an interview once.

etc etc

Barflies might pour a strong drink before reading this brilliant report by F. William Engdahl there is a list of worthies to consider here as they are 'the Guardians' of this fresh new alliance between Vatican and Rothschilds. Shades of Venice circa 1600's.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 3:39 utc | 67

Posted by: vk | Jan 9 2021 0:12 utc | 57

Ha, you expect logistical competence from the clowns who couldn't protect one-tenth of their F-22s from an incoming Floridan hurricane despite a $1T/year budget?

Posted by: J W | Jan 9 2021 3:42 utc | 68

gm #66

Pretty big explosion...

Not powerful though as it appears from reports to have been a big bundle of gas cylinders. You get lots of flame and dramatic images but minimal blast wave. From what I saw there was no hole in the pavement and facades on opposing buildings were damaged but intact. Windows blown out but you would expect that. Up the street the traffic light shields detached and rolled around but that was all. It may have been right on top of the cable tunnels under the building and that would have had some effect but the telecoms shut down happened after the standby generators failed an hour + later. At least that is what I recall from various news items.

It was a bright, low energy blast. I have not looked back on that distraction since.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 4:15 utc | 69

Down South @ 12, Uncle T @ 67:

Hooley-dooley, thanks for that link ... I wonder if Pope Francis's financial connections with Lynn Forester de Rothschild might have anything to do with our George Pell's recent misfortunes ... odious as Pell is, he had been tasked with cleaning up the Vatican's finances and purging any corruption at the time he was accused of paedophilia ... he was found guilty and sentenced to jail over acts apparently committed in circumstances that even I found difficult to believe, and the standard of the level of proof required to convict Pell seemingly low. Pell went to jail at a time the Pope and his advisors were probably working with Lynn Forester de Rothschild.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 9 2021 5:12 utc | 70

HUGE: After 4 Years of Stonewalling Corrupt FBI Finally Admits They’re Holding Seth Rich’s Laptop , By Larry Johnson Published December 9, 2020 at 2:34pm

Trump neutered, FBI comes out of the closet on having DNC's Seth Rich laptop for years; why, it was just a normal Washington D.C. cashless street robbery + murder no??

Nothing to do with witch-hunting Russia, Trump or Wikileaks, right?

Posted by: Antonym | Jan 9 2021 5:15 utc | 71

@ uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 3:08 utc | 64

...Well now, that IS a question isn't it ;) and oh my my haven't the internet janitors been busy of late, scrub a-dub-dubbing away... Hillary (they'll hang us all) must be soo relieved, the end of the tunnel in sight? I wonder if she's booked a personal visit to say "buenas noches" to Julian when his plane eventually gets in? Joe'll have the full Harpy squadron on standby....Anyway the scrubbers have sprinkled sulphur on one of the "I was there when they came out of the room in Dallas in November with the others (see 59 above) when Lyndon coldly said to me: "tomorrow our problems will be over"...has poof gone. Perhaps some smart dude or other has 'lodged it, occult from sub-rosa eyes' in the wayback archive??? ;-) Still the viper nest leaves it's slug trail, and no doubt rot where it digs in.

I and the Neo's of this Realm shall Persevere to burrow away and behold what Cottontail, Peter, and the rest of the White Rabbit colony unearths and brings unto light... it'll be a doozie!

Posted by: Mercury | Jan 9 2021 10:06 utc | 72

re: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 4:15 utc | 69

Clearly, the blast energy was focused horizontally as a flat lenticular wave that punched thru the hardened ground/lower floors of 14 storey AT&T comm./data infrastructure facility at 185-189 2nd Ave. N., and gutted deeply into the businesses and residences located in historical era 3-4 story bldg addresses along opposite side of street, ie., 160-190 (?) 2nd Ave N.

Street level security cam footage looking north up 2nd Ave at the instant of the blast, from a camera vantage mounted south of the 2nd Ave./Commerce St intersection shows traffic signs/posts at that crossing being sliced through by flying shrapnel/metal debris at the moment of explosion. It is extremely lucky the cop standing there in front of the camera near the intersection [~100m+ south from RV blast origin point] was not injure/killed by the shrapnel whizzing past him down the street at that moment.

Posted by: gm | Jan 9 2021 10:17 utc | 73

re: uncle tungsten | Jan 9 2021 4:15 utc | 69

Clearly, the blast energy was focused horizontally as a flat lenticular wave that punched thru the hardened ground/lower floors of 14 storey AT&T comm./data infrastructure facility at 185-189 2nd Ave. N., and gutted deeply into the businesses and residences located in historical era 3-4 story bldg addresses along opposite side of street, ie., 160-190 (?) 2nd Ave N.

Street level security cam footage looking north up 2nd Ave at the instant of the blast, from a camera vantage mounted south of the 2nd Ave./Commerce St intersection shows traffic signs/posts at that crossing being sliced through by flying shrapnel/metal debris at the moment of explosion. It is extremely lucky the cop standing there in front of the camera near the intersection [~100m+ south from RV blast origin point] was not injure/killed by the shrapnel whizzing past him down the street at that moment.

Posted by: gm | Jan 9 2021 10:17 utc | 74

And another 737 crashes, though not a MAX this time:
Boeing can't catch a break, really.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 9 2021 11:48 utc | 75

So interesting to see the same, sad conspiracy theories circulating.
Masons, Illuminati, NWO, Etc etc
Reality is far less interesting. The players aren’t masterminds, they’re drunks dancing a tarantella who regularly wander off and get lost. Who sit in corners and talk past each other.
It isn’t intelligence or even psychosis per se that drives human progress - it is jealousy, incompetence, greed, pride and so forth.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 9 2021 15:01 utc | 76

Ils sont fous ces américains avec leur Ollywood:

Posted by: willie | Jan 9 2021 17:01 utc | 77

@ c1ue | Jan 9 2021 15:01 utc | 76

Poor old UK (P.M.) Clement Attlee said in 1937:

"Over and over again we have seen that there is in this country another power (other) than that which has its seat at Westminster. The City of London, a convenient term for a collection of financial interests, is able to assert itself against the Government of the country. Those who control money can pursue a policy at home and abroad contrary to that which has been decided by the people."

The Corporation of the City of London is so strongly masonic that many connected with it, - Masons included, consider it part of the Grand Lodge. The City is foremost a financial centre but when it comes to a choice between serving Mammon and serving the Brotherhood, Freemasons in the City act upon the masonic principle enshrined in the Fifth paragraph of The Universal Book of Craft Masonry, which declares, 'Freemasonry distinctly teaches that a man's first duty is to himself'.

27% of international finance is conducted on British territory known as offshore territories, Overseas trusts, overseas blind trusts, and various PFI's and a myriad of other financial vehicles and wrappers are used to disguise, avoid, evade, and subvert jurisdiction penalties and taxation, all overseen by the City and it's Masonic Lodge Businesses, owners and many employee's Appealing to the wealthy, corporations and those who'd prefer not to disclose the source of wealth - arms, illicit trade, drugs, corruption etc. Almost half of the world's secrecy jurisdictions are on British Territory, and half of all offshore wealth may be hidden in British tax havens, estimated to have values in region of €60 or €70 Trillion.

Britain and it's territories are the largest tax havens in the world. Senior Warden of one City Lodge is Anthony Stuart Joliffe, Alderman and Sheriff of the City of London, Director of numerous companies including SAS Catering Ltd, Nikko Hillier International Trading Co Ltd, Capital for Industry Ltd, Marlborough Property Holdings (Developments) Ltd, Albany Commercial and Industrial Developments Ltd. Vice President of the European League for Economic Co-operation, Hon Treasurer of Britain in Europe Residual Fund, and trustee of the Police Foundation, and other influential positions. In another location five 'wise men' set the world price of Bullion in the opulent Gold Room of N. M. Rothschild and Sons, St Swithin's Lane at 10.30am each morning. It's clear these men put the tick in the world's clocks.

It's a world of secrets run by those whose business is dependent on many things remaining opaque and secret. The difficulty for the rest of us is that as more money is shifted outside burdensome tax jurisdictions the weight of support of maintaining the services of those localities falls more heavily on those lower down the food chain, services collapse, are reduced and are more expensive to use and maintain. The danger is that such financial mechanisms embedded into the fabric of society cause a system to cater predominantly to the needs of the wealthy few, and the politicians who serve their purposes - and their more nefarious apex predator wishes when their immediate needs are not met.
The understanding of these dynamics cause the rise of populism - which in itself causes a challenge to the system and a dangerous duality spiral inevitably will emerge. I call it out because these spirals are not sustainable, corruption is systemic to it's core, and secrecy and secret societies enable it. It is greed and it is destructive. I believe higher renaissance inward striving, personal best values can drive society, call out crooks for what they are and demand better.

Posted by: Mercury | Jan 9 2021 21:49 utc | 78

Trump is still president for another 10+ days and has had Pompeo declare that the 1 country policy with regard to Taiwan will no longer be held to.....since Nixon days

How will Biden respond? I expect China to not fuck around about this. Maybe we will see a serious financial war erupt in the next 10 days.

What a shit show

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 10 2021 3:41 utc | 79

@Mercury #78
Rich people not wanting to pay taxes don't need conspiracies to achieve their goals.
They just need to pay the right people - and that is out in the open for anyone to see, if they care to look.
As for the Masons - there's a Filipino lodge for the Masons about 5 blocks from where I live. There are also VFWs, country clubs, Burning Man and a myriad of other socialization venues/organizations.
The very first question that has to be answered by a conspiracy theorist is: if the conspiracy is truly of significant scale and/or time frame - why has no one talked? No deathbed confessions, no purloined data or letters, no disgruntled employee telling all, no angry wife suing, etc.
Lincoln's very personal screwing over of Robert E. Lee's wife's family estate - which was seized during the Civil War and made into Arlington Cemetary - was proven when Lincoln's son paid off the Lee family 75000 ounces of gold. That conspiracy involved probably all of 3 people: Lincoln, a secretary and the Quartermaster General who did it.
Spies for the rebels in the American Revolution were uncovered when they or their children/wives sued the federal government for unpaid bills.
That's who the real world works.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 10 2021 12:05 utc | 80

c1ue @76:

So interesting to see the same, sad conspiracy theories circulating. Masons, Illuminati, NWO, Etc etc Reality is far less interesting. The players aren’t masterminds, they’re drunks dancing a tarantella who regularly wander off and get lost. Who sit in corners and talk past each other.

It is a combination of both: Silly secret societies with owl statues in their clubhouses and pyramid-eye symbols on their secret decoder rings/smartphone apps that are being run by gangs of delusional morons. The mistake is assigning mystical power, knowledge, or abilities to these secret societies. They are just the equivalent of elite college fraternities but for adult children who have graduated from the sandbox of Ivy League education and have grabbed some power in society. To be sure, membership opens access to more power in society simply due to networking with other elites, but there is nothing supernatural about that.

Really, these "secret societies" are just the equivalent of exclusive college fraternities for nominal adults. That doesn't mean that their members don't wield tremendous influence in society, just that these organizations do not possess mystic powers.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 10 2021 12:32 utc | 81

c1ue @80: "...why has no one talked?"

People do talk, but the crimes are ones that individuals commit, so that's what ends up in courts. See the whole Epstein thing. It is obvious that there are individuals involved with the secret society he was in from the top levels of government, business, and academia, but any investigation will go no further than Epstein himself and possibly a close associate or two. Furthermore the "secret societies" are more for networking among the elites and are not themselves pulling the strings. The secret societies provide the clubhouses where the conspiracies are hatched, but when the conspiracy is exposed it is just the individuals who are caught who end up in the public eye.

Think of it this way: You have some common burglars who sometimes work together on robbing houses. They form a bowling club to get together on Saturdays to share tips and discuss their next targets while enjoying some beers and playing a couple strings. Is the bowling club itself the conspiracy? If one of the burglars is caught does that lead back to the bowling club? Of course not.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 10 2021 13:02 utc | 82

@William Gruff #81

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2021 15:55 utc | 83

@William Gruff #82
That's not quite true.
Let's take 9/11 for example.
How many people would be needed to "demo rig" the building, then cover up all evidence of this?
The number is certainly in the dozens if not hundreds.
Now how likely it is that a group of dozens or hundreds killed 3000+ Americans for literally no good reason - and nobody feels guilty or screws up? That's pretty damn unlikely.
Another one is the JFK assassination. Let's even assume there were multiple gunmen. The thing is, you still need at least a dozen more people involved: doctors, paramedics, Secret Service etc.
Again, nobody talked?
On the other hand - we have the US war with Japan in World War 2. There is no question whatsoever that FDR wanted it. There is no question whatsoever that Pearl Harbor might have been avoidable. There is all manner of documentation showing clearly what people were thinking. Was there an order to suppress intel? Maybe, or maybe the normal bureaucracy was allowed to operate - a sin of omission vs. commission.
The dropping of atomic bombs on Japan - also well documented that it wasn't necessary even from the military point of view.
The lack of such information - much less in this era of Snowden, Manning, Kiriakou, Binney et al - is a major red flag against conspiracy theories in my view, but it doesn't mean they don't exist.
It is just really hard to get anything big done even when it is out in the open. To get something earthshattering done, completely in the secret, forever is very possibly impossible; to get it done and have nobody boast, confess, memoir or whatever - particularly if large numbers of people were involved ... that's what I have a problem with.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 11 2021 16:04 utc | 84

Posted by: Dogon Priest | Jan 12 2021 23:52 utc | 85

@84 c1ue

noted, the thing you have a problem with. I have a problem with it too.

But if your logic is sound and William Gruff's logical narrative is sound - and I think you're both right - there is one possible dynamic that still fits, namely that we don't account for the power of the mystique to impel the individual to keep the secret, for the sheer thrill of keeping the secret.

If in fact the act of keeping a secret IS a thrill, then it probably modulates into different flavors, with one end of the spectrum continuously thrilled, and the other end more hard-bitten and dour, where the thrill has turned into a primal force running up the spine, but thought of as a kind of duty as solid as the earth one stands on, and where the thrill of secrecy is subsumed into an ethos of unquestioning action.

It's not too hard to see how these flavors could work. The question still remains, is this a dynamic worth considering?

Since I think both you and W Gruff have equally sound observations, I submit that it could be. This could be why so many conspiracies simply remain secret - because it's not too hard to keep a thing secret, especially when the price for blabbing is remorseless death - and this is undoubtedly the common currency of these scenarios.

Just as we often disregard the effect that a lot of money can have on any human, we may also be discounting the ability of a persuaded or inducted mind to keep a secret sincerely, even earnestly. As is so often the case, we parse the behavior of others according to our own standards, and this may not be the case.

So I would not discard this possibility without some good argument against it.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 13 2021 3:35 utc | 86

Glenn Greenwald
Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler?


The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silencing competitors on ideological grounds: just the start

Posted by: Triden | Jan 13 2021 4:01 utc | 87

@Grieved #86
What you say is not untrue, however, it does not hold up over time.
The "thrill" changes as individuals get older.
The benefit of money, ditto.
And while secularism increases in the US - most Americans still have some background in religion, hence guilt.

Thus my point is that while secrets might be kept in the short term, even by a large group of people - they won't be in the long term for sure and are extremely unlikely even in the medium term.

It only takes one to feel guilty, to get drunk and spout, to leave their diary to their kids, etc.

This isn't much different than police work. Criminals can be careful and smart, but law enforcement only has to be right once. And criminals get more and more careless over time - familiarity breeds contempt.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 13 2021 14:35 utc | 88

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