Guardian Smears Syria's President With Implausible Link To Beirut's Port Blast
On August 4 2020 2.750 tons of ammonium nitrate, stored in a warehouse of Beirut's harbour, exploded. The blast destroyed large parts of the city.
The dangerous load had come on a defect ship which was impounded by the Lebanese authorities. It had been stored since 2013. Despite urgent warnings, the complicate Lebanese bureaucracy had never found a way to get rid of the dangerous load.
Soon conspiracy theories sprang up about the 'real' ownership and purpose of the load and of who might have had an interest in igniting it. None made much sense. The original explanation of a bureaucratic tussle and pure neglect are still the most plausible cause.
But that does not stop the British Guardian from trying to blame the Syrian government for the incident:
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Here is how the Guardian 'links' the Syrian government with the explosion:
The company used to ship a huge stockpile of ammonium nitrate to Beirut port, where it caused a devastating explosion last August, has been linked to three influential businessmen with ties to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, a new investigation has found.
...
An investigation by the Lebanese film-maker Firas Hatoum, which aired this week on local television network Al-Jadeed, drew links between Savaro and three figures who had been central to efforts to bolster Assad since the earliest months of the Syrian war.George Haswani, Mudalal Khuri and his brother Imad are joint Russian-Syrian citizens who have all been sanctioned by the United States for supporting the Syrian leader’s war effort. Companies linked to Haswani and Imad Khuri shared a London address with Savaro, which bought the nitrate in 2013. The official destination of the cargo was Mozambique, but it was diverted to and unloaded in Beirut, where it was stored unsafely until the catastrophic blast.
...
The Savaro address – 10 Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3BQ – was also the registered address of Hesco Engineering and Construction, which was directed by Haswani, a go-to businessman for Assad who was also sanctioned by the US in 2015 for allegedly buying oil from the Islamic State (Isis) terror group on behalf of the Syrian government.According to documents supplied by Hatoum, another of Savaro’s London addresses is linked to a second company tied to Haswani’s Hesco now defunct company, IK Petroleum, which was directed by Imad Khruri until 2016.
The suspicious 'link' the Guardian describes is solely based on the common address of otherwise unconnected companies.
But all the named companies are just letterbox entities. These get set up and dissolved by the dozens per day. The British government's registrar for such businesses is Companies House. It allows anyone to search for a company's name, address and ownership.
A Companies House search for 10 Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3BQ, the common address of the suspicious companies, currently results in 140,871 matches. And yes, they all have the same address.
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More that 140,000 active or dissolved companies have been registered at 10 Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3BQ. To then claim that some of these companies are suspiciously 'linked' to each other because they share the same nominal letterbox is bonkers. It is like claiming that U.S. companies are 'linked' because they are, for tax reasons, registered in Delaware.
Why Martin Chulov, the Guardian's Middle East correspondent and author of the piece, did not do the basic diligence of checking the records or chose not to tell his readers that such address sharing is extremely common and does not prove anything is beyond me.
One might suspect that any chance to denounce the Syrian government over whatever nonsense has taken priority over journalistic diligence.
In 2015 Chulov won the Orwell price for journalism.
Orwellian that indeed is.
Posted by b on January 15, 2021 at 12:17 UTC | Permalink
next page »Sooooo, the address of the office is London sooooooo.... it was the British government? Guardian logic.
Posted by: Paulymx | Jan 15 2021 12:43 utc | 2
The Guardian? Someone still reads that liberal-neocon rag?
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Jan 15 2021 12:45 utc | 3
Meh. Assad Curse will take care of all of them. In 5 years Bashar will play tennis in Damascus as most popular person in state while most of western countries will burn (literally).
Posted by: Abe | Jan 15 2021 13:01 utc | 4
Oohppss, Oh My: I have myself registered previously as owner of two different companies with that same address. The companies worked out of Norway between fifteen and twenty years ago: WIll I get sanctioned by Amarika ans persecuted for terrorism???
Posted by: Oū Sī/區司/Tŭ Lèi'fū | Jan 15 2021 13:24 utc | 5
The only one with an interest of setting off a major bomb in Lebanon is the usual suspect that regularly bombs it and violates its airspace. read it in detail here:
https://platosguns.com/2020/08/06/the-us-israel-and-beirutshima/
Posted by: Mikhas | Jan 15 2021 13:24 utc | 6
The Guardian like all Western corporate media, is and has always been, a tool of imperialism. Expect torrents of such nonsense the moment the zionist Joe Biden assumes the presidency.
Posted by: Steve | Jan 15 2021 13:45 utc | 7
The Guardian is trash.
I have a poorly researched theory on the Guardian to share here if i may... a mix of interesting events reconstructed into a theoretical conspiracy of sorts... here it goes.. I won't take any reasoned or better informed debunking personally i assure you.
-Since the Edward Snowden scandal, it appears the Guardian has experienced a transformation of sorts. From rogue investigative journalism, to MSM / Intel Services propaganda mouthpiece... a la WaPo, NY Times etc...
-To my knowledge, the Guardian's original independence and journalistic integrity was facilitated by a Trust Fund of sorts which allowed it some form of editorial independence and objectivity based on finances not entirely reliant on ad revenue/sponsorship and various other corporate partnership/ownership deals
-I am not particularly sure about the exact timings, but in recent years this Trust Fund of sorts began to underperform and The Guardian started running into financial trouble
-The Guardian's financial misadventures roughly coincided with significant changes in its editorial content, key departures including Glen Greenwald himself and various other legal disputes and misfortunes
My amateurish thesis..
Could it be that this Trust Fund of sorts was deliberately sabotaged, through toxic Board infiltrations or deliberate bad financial advice, aimed at eroding The Guardian's financial independence and thus its editorial independence and promotion of dissenting narratives? Given the extent of integration between Intel/Weapons/Finance industries, a congruence of mutual interests is not unexpected, and if this Fund was advised or run by members of major Wall St et al. firms, it doesn't seem too far fetched to conceive of such a possibility.
Please feel free to post any relative info or comment.
Posted by: Et Tu | Jan 15 2021 13:56 utc | 8
Ah the mysterious Chulov - who's apparent journalist credentials are based on him being a reporter of cafes in...Beirut. I think he showed up there just around the Syria Campaign PR operation kicked off with the anti Assad 'protests' just beyond the Lebanese borders back in 2011.
My comments about their Syria Campaign PR mysterious 'reporters' being published verbatim in the DS Guardian is what led to my banning at that rag of a newspaper, under some undisclised infringement of their mysterious Comment rules ( funnily exactly the same MO as the now obviously also a DS alter ego Off-Guardian has adopted - with my continued daily censorship at that supposed 'free comment' site - you had their number correct b, and they were directed to attack MoA as they do with the other thorns in the DS'd side)
There are clear links between StratCom , Atlantic Council, Bellend Higgins and the DS apparatchiks on the Groaniad- which takes in Wintour, Harding, Codwalladr ...and other assiciated minions , revealed by the integrity uniative links.
The Groans treachery towards Assange and actions in the Scripal, Ukraine ... infact in all yhe shitshows of the neoconmen projects has covered their hands in blood that will never wash away, especially the child killees and head choppers of the DS created White Helmets under its mysteriously murdered military man Le Mesurier.and the fellow military man De Bretton Gordon. The link goes into the BBC's Mark Urban - the Tank Regiment has clearly been the thig spooks nursery ground since Tanks became as useless as the cavalry in the army..
Yup when it comes to intrigue and murder in Lebanon and the ME - Chulov is but one muppet sewage gobshite pipe to push out the Syria Campaign PR operations lies through the Groaniad - after all being a Cafe reviewer in Beirut apparently makes yoou an expert in such Atlantic Council objectives.
They must have some mighty powerful coffee, to make Martin such a expert overnight.
Posted by: DG | Jan 15 2021 14:03 utc | 9
b wrote “ On August 4 2020 2.750 tons of ammonium nitrate, stored in a warehouse of Beirut's harbour, exploded.”
Ammonium Nitrate never “explodes” it either detonates or cigar burns (low speed deflagration mode).
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 15 2021 14:20 utc | 11
Well that's good to see Syria is moving up in the world. This normally would have blamed on Russia, China, Iran, and Cuba./s
Posted by: jo6pac | Jan 15 2021 14:22 utc | 12
That's about as implausible as linking Iran to Al Qaida ... Oh wait ... what's that I hear?
Yeah:
https://www.state.gov/the-iran-al-qaida-axis/
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 15 2021 14:23 utc | 13
It seems timed to coincide with the attack on Syria. They're desperate to get anything to mitigate any sympathy for the Syrians over the unilateral attack by the Axis powers.
Posted by: Les | Jan 15 2021 14:39 utc | 14
Mail Boxes Etc. London - Bloomsbury, 10 Great Russell Street, London
Oddly Mail Boxes Etc rents mailboxes.
Stunning.
Posted by: S.O. | Jan 15 2021 14:55 utc | 15
As an ex-fan of the Guardian, I thought it was jolly decent of the Editors to flag BS stories by omitting the Reader Comments beneath the article. It saved me a lot of time during the transition from reliable News outlet to reliable Mawkish Drivel outlet. Some of the drivel can be amusingly pointless/naif-ish.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 15 2021 15:28 utc | 16
Forget the Guardian. I'm more pissed at the gulf arab funded Al Jadeed being taken seriously for this trash reporting. People here in Lebanon are buying it, and of course a Western outlet would jump at the chance to uncritically parrot their lame propaganda. The Lebanese "journalist" who wrote this piece is a huge joke who got torn to shreds before over mocking a real war journalist who went to Syria during the war.
Posted by: JustAngry | Jan 15 2021 15:46 utc | 17
We are living in times when everything we are told is false.
"When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies" Jefferson Airplane, "somebody to love"
Posted by: erik | Jan 15 2021 15:51 utc | 18
Guardian changed after 2014 when they published the Edward Snowden leaks. Cameron threatened to take over the newspapers for revealing the Five Eyes' global surveillance.
Posted by: Les | Jan 15 2021 15:55 utc | 19
Nothing to see here!?
- The danger at Beirut port was recognized well before Hezbollah gained political power.
- The port explosion came only months after Hezbollah gained political power.
- It was blamed on Hezbollah and Hezbollah was ejected from the government.
- The explosion came during a time of heightened tensions with Iran - including assassination of Gen. Soleimani and Iran's subsequent missile attack on a USA base in Iraq.
- The explosion came only months after Israel had admitted to being behind mysterious explosions at Iraqi warehouses and a series of mysterious attacks on shipping which for which Iran was blamed.
- An extraordinary disinformation campaign was begun soon after the explosion with wild theories (e.g. Israeli missile attack!) that and oh-so-plausible proposed explanations (welders!) that avoided the possibility of deliberate sabotage.
- In addition, Iran and Hezbollah both support Assad's government in Syria which USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and others have been trying to destroy - overtly and covertly - for years. And the origins and purpose of ammonium nitrate in the port are suspicious - did the Assad must go! Coalition intend for it to be used by rebel bombing-makers in Syria?
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 15 2021 16:35 utc | 21
The Guardian was once a comparatively good newspaper. The Snowden episode changed everything.
Nowadays it's just another pseudo-liberal, post-feminist, opinionated propaganda outlet. In some way a Daily Mail for "intellectuals".
Basically half of their articles are "opinion" pieces. The only thing worth reading is the football section (and even that gets more and more opinionated).
It's a shame really.
Posted by: Verdant | Jan 15 2021 16:45 utc | 24
@ sun tzu 11
"It never explodes, it either detonates or burns"
Right! A detonation is an explosion. Basta! Anything with a burn rate of more than say 3000 m/sek is a detonation. Ammonium Nitrate is perfectly capable of doing that on its own, Texas 1947, Nova Scotia 1917. Incorrect storage, damp environment, compression, heat (see damp + compression) will make you a very unhappy camper. Very.
Supposedly in Beirut not even all exploded, maybe 2/3. Ammonium nitrate is easy to make, however at your own risk, if you look at it with an angry stare, your wife has suddenly become a widow.
Mixing it is something you let other people do, not your precious self!
It is volatile, it is unpredictable, it just WANTS to blow you up (unless you absolutely know what you are doing).
I made a small amount many, many, years ago, my parents lost a garden shed, I managed to get out with bruises and cuts, And estimate we had max 50 grammes. New Year almost gone bad.
So yes Ammonium Nitrate, does funnily enough detonate.
Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 15 2021 16:45 utc | 25
Sounds like the usual suspects are planning on yet another spring offensive in Syria. Soon they will return to the WMD trope.
Posted by: j. casey | Jan 15 2021 16:47 utc | 26
aLL btw, check this link out, what to do and especially NOT to do, very humorous :
Happy reading!
Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 15 2021 16:49 utc | 27
Let me just add, ( I am an old forgetful fart), If you cant verify that your Ammonium Nitrate i almost 99 % pure , you are in for a world of hurt.
Dont say I did not warn you.
Posted by: Den lille abe | Jan 15 2021 16:54 utc | 28
@ Den lille abe | Jan 15 2021 16:45 utc | 25
Hear, Hear!
In other words: Nonsense.
Posted by: Hmpf | Jan 15 2021 17:12 utc | 29
It looks like the groundwork is being laid for Biden's first 100 days in office. I would expect chemical attacks to be forthcoming on the Syrian populace. That sneaky CIA with it's one page playbook.
Posted by: Tobi | Jan 15 2021 17:23 utc | 30
Guardian? Not as bad as the BBC, but pretty bad.
They have a real hard on for Venezuela.
If it is not political, some good info can be accessed.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jan 15 2021 17:32 utc | 31
thanks b... take pity on the paper... they have to cut back and continue to get funding from the integrity initiative and other such propaganda tools of the uk gov't!
"three figures who had been central to efforts to bolster Assad since the earliest months of the Syrian war." well it would be unusual for a mouthpiece for m16 to say that the uk to say it has been central to efforts to tear down Assad since the earliest months of the Syrian war..... it is not like they are in the business of telling the people of the uk what actually goes on and whose side they are on in all of this... you really can't expect impartiality from a paper that is a tool of this same establishment...
@ ditto jackrabbits observations.. thanks jr..
Posted by: james | Jan 15 2021 17:35 utc | 32
Ammonium Nitrate?
Get it a little damp, and with some Primacord------
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jan 15 2021 17:37 utc | 33
So the evil-doers carry out a complicated mission with many moving parts, plus a huge monetary outlay. They wait seven years before finishing the dastardly deed, just to thicken the plot. The Guardian says yeah, that sounds plausible. Because they know their readers have been groomed for years to believe BS.
Reminds me of the Skripal nutty shifting narratives, or better yet Jonathon Chait's New York Magazine piece (Trump a Russian asset since 1987).
Martin Chulov should be scolded by his Minders for not linking Russia to the plot (the three were "joint Russian-Syrian citizens"). Maybe that will be written into the script in the next Guardian article.
Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 15 2021 17:50 utc | 34
I see some ignoramuses continue to confuse explosion with detonation.
Let me state it again: Ammonium Nitrate does not explode it detonates.
An explosion is a rapid fire / deflagration that does not leave a crater and does not liquify metal. The reaction is subsonic and so is the pressure wave.
In contrast a detonation, leaves a crater and liquifies metals. A detonation of Ammonium Nitrate runs up to a supersonic shockwave.
To state that Ammonium Nitrate explodes is a misnomer and demonstrates illiteracy of energetic materials.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 15 2021 17:54 utc | 35
Although more recent times around Snowden & Wikileaks are often cited as the time of the paper's fall from decency, the Fraudian was at the forefront of liberal imperialism back in the nineties, when it led the shrill cries for war against Serbs in Yugoslavia.
As someone said, it's the Daily Mail for liberals, but at least Daily Mail readers don't constantly virtue-signal their superiority over lesser beings. DM readers also probably have at least an inkling that their paper might be a bit full of BS, whereas the Guardian readers who Caitlin wonderfully describes as 'Shitlibs' believe every word they read, and then proudly regurgitate the content as if they'd just worked this out for themselves, while denouncing DM readers as 'stupid'.
Posted by: Ash Naz | Jan 15 2021 17:55 utc | 36
Ian Fleming had James Bond using a front group called Universal Exports whose addy might be found in that very long London listing. Chulov will be yet another to succumb to the Assad Curse since it's just a matter of time.
"the Guardian readers who Caitlin wonderfully describes as 'Shitlibs' believe every word they read, and then proudly regurgitate the content as if they'd just worked this out for themselves, while denouncing DM readers as 'stupid'."
Ash Naz @35
Sounds a lot like the NPR totebag set of folks
Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 15 2021 18:03 utc | 38
In the Orwellian world that is the 'Globalist' New World Order white is black and black is white.
If their mouth piece is blaming Syria for the Beirut port bombing, it means that they are trying to hide something. What?
Posted by: dh-mtl | Jan 15 2021 18:24 utc | 39
I still find it difficult to fathom how Israel continues to bomb Syrian targets with apparent impunity, despite causing multiple deaths (57 reported in this week's raids). OK, so they don't hit anything Russian or any actual Syrian targets inside cities, but what's the deal?
Posted by: B. Wildered | Jan 15 2021 18:50 utc | 40
@ Sun Tzu
"In contrast a detonation, leaves a crater and liquifies metals. A detonation of Ammonium Nitrate runs up to a supersonic shockwave.
To state that Ammonium Nitrate explodes is a misnomer and demonstrates illiteracy of energetic materials."
I am pretty sure your definition is inaccurate. Explosion is the general term and is
defined as:
An explosion is a rapid expansion in volume associated with an extremely vigorous outward release of energy, usually with the generation of high temperatures and release of high-pressure gases. Supersonic explosions created by high explosives are known as detonations and travel via shock waves. Subsonic explosions are created by low explosives through a slower combustion process known as deflagration." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosion
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemical-engineering/deflagration
"Two Faces of Explosion
S. Venugopalan, in Demystifying Explosives, 2015
3.2 Deflagration and Detonation
Explosives are those substances that have their own supply of oxygen in their molecules. When they are initiated, they may either burn violently (deflagrate) or explode disastrously generating shock waves (detonate). What are the differences between deflagration and"
Posted by: Peter Moritz | Jan 15 2021 19:15 utc | 41
The Lebanese government impounded the fertilizer, so why didn’t they just package and distribute it to the farmers instead of storing it? It’s not like the stuff couldn’t have been used for the intended purpose.
Posted by: norecovery | Jan 15 2021 19:29 utc | 42
B. Wildered | Jan 15 2021 18:50 utc | 39
They usually fire stand-off missiles from Lebanon or over another country - so Syria won't shoot back over a friendly airspace.
The latest bombing raids were more serious (18 were mentioned, could have been more) and used US satellite info apparently. The three principal sites hit were all along the river. The US has been building up forces (tanks and artillery) opposite Deir Ezzor in the oil fields. (One hit was a hospital as is usual for the Israelis.)
Israel has been "moved" into the control area of the US in Qatar closer to Iran. (from the European command structure) ie, they are now directly under US command, I presume. Qatar may regret being thrust into the front line, but Israel will profit from using a base in an "arabic" country rather than one of their own bases. I am not sure that they will have refueling rights but I expect so.
Secondly, there have been previous attacks after overflying Al-Tanf and the desert to hit targets in the the Palmyra area. The Syrians can't have many deep anti-aircraft defenses with such a large area to defend. (The desert is full of ISIS and Daesch who the US supports and resupplies from A-Tanf.) Only Pantsir and similar AF defenses. The Israeis probably used the F-35's as it is "stealth" when approaching.
There has been a naval builup (again) by the US in the med. and submarines in the Persian Gulf (US+Isr). The US aircraft carriers will be kept out of range of Iranian shore defenses.
"actual Syrian targets inside cities" ; but they make no difference between Iranians, SAA or anyone else. Many of the attacks are aimed to kill mainly Syrian soldiers, and eliminate local defense systems to enable further attacks later.
There is a great disparity about what Israel can do and what the Syrians have left to defend themselves.
Posted by: Stonebird | Jan 15 2021 19:39 utc | 43
Et Tu @ 8:
My understanding is that for years the bulk of The Fraudian's funding was subsidised by revenues from sales of Manchester-based tabloid newspapers. I believe this continued into the 1990s and maybe the first decade of this century. A major part of The Fraudian's income also used to come from government employment advertisements in the pre-Internet age.
Once the connections with Manchester-based newspapers were cut by the Trust that runs The Fraudian, and other traditional sources of funding dried up, the newspaper started sacking editorial and other office staff. This was about the same time The Fraudian opened offices in the US and Australia in an effort to get more readers (and more subscribers), and also coincides with Julian Assange working with The Fraudian and other MSM papers on releasing Wikileaks email revelations. The sackings were disguised as voluntary redundancies or retirements and the scale was quite huge, a fair few hundred jobs were cut.
This of course led to The Fraudian having to partner with various "media agencies" in the Middle East, eastern Europe and other parts of the world. You can guess who funds these other agencies The Fraudian calls its "partners".
That Martin Chulov writes an article linking the Syrian govt to last year's bomb blast is no surprise. The news comes just before Joe Biden's inauguration. I had expected that one of his first priorities as POTUS would be resuming the US invasion of Syria, using any excuse. The Chulov article smacks of the same devious cherry-picking that Bellingcat engaged in to finger and "identify" two Russian tourists in Salisbury in 2018 as GRU agents. I would not be surprised if Chulov, like Higgins, had been told what to write and by the same people.
Posted by: Jen | Jan 15 2021 19:42 utc | 44
Ahem...refreshing to see some content that isn't about the whole Trump situation in the USSA.
As with other things, including, in part, the Trump thing, we're witnessing full "1984" level shit from the media and governments. Everyone knows that the CIA and other Pentagram offices (and MI6) have full control over what Western media publishes, but it's like they aren't even trying anymore. Just full-on lie mode with zero accountability even when what they print is refuted beyond any doubt.
Of course they were going to blame Syria, Iran or Venezuela. If any external government was involved and it wasn't simply negligence by Lebanon's, then it was Israel. Period. Jesus F*cking Christ, it's so obvious.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 15 2021 20:34 utc | 45
Sun Tzu @11
"Ammonium Nitrate never “explodes” it either detonates or cigar burns (low speed deflagration mode)."
Ammonium nitrate will explode if heated to above 260 deg C in a confined space. The center of 2500 tons of ammonium nitrate stored in 1 meter cube bags will certainbly be confined. The bags on the exterior of the pile will burn in the excess oxygen of the atmosphere gradually heating the interior.
Posted by: Heironymous Dosh | Jan 15 2021 20:38 utc | 46
Hmm. I've had two straight comments disappeared so I'm posting this to see if it's a proxy server issue or whether my "account" has been banned for some strange reason. Short version: Israel did it.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 15 2021 20:38 utc | 47
Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 15 2021 18:03 utc | 37
NPR was useful to me for local/state coverage when I was in the states. But I stopped tuning in when it became obvious that they would never use the word "torture" to describe the Bush/Cheney regime's actions. Didn't help that at the same time I started hearing sponsorship messages from Boeing and other "defense" contractors.
I made the mistake of tuning back in once in about 2012 and they were on about the Arab Spring and Assad government, "reporting" on Libya as though it was just something that happened, and never again listened until 2016 when I left the country.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Jan 15 2021 20:42 utc | 48
@ #43
pls, don’t quit your day job. you know nothing about ammonium nitrate.
ammonium nitrate fertilizer presumably held in bulk has very low to extremely low thermal conductivity. that means the material outside insulates the material inside. it has absolutely nothing to do with confinement (in this case) as this is in the open atmosphere. There is no shell or canister confining the powder. f someone is welding and a piece of red hot metal falls into the pile, it will heat it up right at the spot where welding slag to the point that it sensitizes it and it may become just as reactive to shocks as nitroglicerine. ammonium nitrate doesn’t need any extra oxygen. ammonium nitrate is both a powerful reducer and oxidant in the same crystal. a fraction of the mass of fertilizer will then sympathetically detonate shortly after the initiator. that means it will leave a crater (and /or a mushroom cloud, and will create a destructive supersonic shockwave that will kill you before you even hear it depending on your proximity to it. this is not an explosion. this is way more powerful, that is why it is called a detonation. for example: black powder explodes but it never detonates whereas ammonium nitrate never explodes but it detonates.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 15 2021 21:15 utc | 49
@14 Les
It seems timed to coincide with the attack on Syria. They're desperate to get anything to mitigate any sympathy for the Syrians over the unilateral attack
Team Obama is re-borned Team-Biden. Some new wave of chemical attack accusation are expected, soon.
Posted by: Arata | Jan 15 2021 21:48 utc | 50
@ Sun Tzu (34)
Just to be clear, According to you.....
Nuclear weapons do not explode.
Artillery shells do not explode.
The Tunguska meteorite did not cause an explosion.
Large unexploded bombs should be called undetonated bombs, certainly if they could form a crater.
Can we have a link to the definitions you are using?
Posted by: MarkU | Jan 15 2021 21:52 utc | 51
@#48
you got it! the nuclear reaction is supersonic thus it is a detonation not an explosion. def? find it yourself as you want to argue and i don’t need your non science.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 15 2021 22:05 utc | 52
For those querying the position of The Guardian
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-09-11-how-the-uk-security-services-neutralised-the-countrys-leading-liberal-newspaper/amp/
“The Guardian had gone in six short years from being the natural outlet to place stories exposing wrongdoing by the security state to a platform trusted by the security state to amplify its information operations. A once relatively independent media platform has been largely neutralised by UK security services fearful of being exposed further. “
Posted by: cirsium | Jan 15 2021 22:06 utc | 53
Wrt to artillery shells whether they detonate or just explode. it all depends on design. an illustrative example is the antitank and/or shape charge round. these throw a spray of molten metal to perforate the tank so the warhead obviously detonates. but in contrast, in an air to air missile design it launches metallic rods a other aircraft. bc it doesn’t have to cut through the thick metal like in the antitank round design. So the “powder” doesn’t need to be a HE.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 15 2021 22:15 utc | 54
@48
There is misunderstanding here, bomb explode after detonation, same applies to shell etc, detonation is used to control explosion. The same applies for nitrate amonia which mainly used for fertilizer. Nitrate amonia was dangerously explosive used for mining, Alfred Nobel was a contracter for oil mining in Baku, he saw a lot of this kind accident , he devised a chimical formula and made it safe and controlabe, he made money out of his invention and trusted his wealth for the institution name Nobel peace prize.
Posted by: Arata | Jan 15 2021 22:18 utc | 55
Correction
Alfred Nobel invented dynimite from Nitroglycerin and detonater
Posted by: Arata | Jan 15 2021 23:22 utc | 56
Good catch! As of 11:57PM UTC Companies House already shows 14 more companies (140,885) at 10 Great Russell St London, all evidently linked to UFOs, witches, Martians, election fraud, WMD, Putin, and China.
Posted by: SamF | Jan 16 2021 0:05 utc | 57
Guardian did a good job reporting on the Iraq War II...it was after that (2008), and in response to its halfway decent reporting of Iraq that the ownership mechanism was changed.
The new Guardian ownership enacted a "constitution" guaranteeing it would retain its earlier journalistic integrity, but that was pure horseshit, as it went down hill rapidly after the ownership change and became just another mouthpiece for neoliberal/neoconservative propaganda.
Posted by: Jason | Jan 16 2021 0:05 utc | 58
The problem is not so much the Guardian in general, but Martin Chulov in particular. He's well-known as a mouthpiece of British intelligence and government interests. He's way ahead of the rest of the Guardian for planting stories and strong support of the White Helmets, for instance. The Graun still does have some good journalists, even on the Middle East, but of course it is true that in general they've bent the knee, rather than get closed down.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 16 2021 1:55 utc | 59
I am trying to find out more about Martin Chulov´s CV. Is he a dual or triple citizen? There is nothing in the Wikipedia (yet)..
Posted by: bystander04 | Jan 16 2021 2:24 utc | 60
@ 56 laguerre... i guess martin chulov is the point person from integrity initiative at the guardian... maybe he is one of many... i wonder how much the guardian gets for running these propaganda pieces?? if it is not the skripal caper, it is the ongoing support for the white helmets and on and on it goes... the uk has been on a steady downhill slope since blair was in power and they had to team up with the usa to make war on iraq... or maybe it was earlier... they have become extremely predictable..
Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 2:43 utc | 61
@ Sun Tzu (49)
Re: def? find it yourself as you want to argue and i don’t need your non science.
That is unfair and unreasonable. Firstly I am a science graduate so your presumption that 'non-science' was forthcoming is insulting. Secondly I had already ascertained that your definitions are NOT standard definitions of those words in any of the standard dictionaries. When people are using a specialised definition of a word from any branch of the sciences it is customary (and considerate) to be clear as to the origin of that definition (it would also save on tiresome quibbling)
Posted by: MarkU | Jan 16 2021 3:58 utc | 62
@sun tzu 34 “ I see some ignoramuses continue to confuse explosion with detonation.”
You must have attended Circe’s school of how to win friends and influence people. I’m not sure what you’re attempting to prove other than to make the case that you’re very clever. Maybe there’s another point to your insults and self assured and condescending statements?
So explosions, according to you, aren’t or can’t be supersonic? Can the term explosion not be used generically to describe an event like what happened in Beirut?
For what it’s worth, a quick search yielded this from Los Alamos National Laboratory’s site...
“Explosion, on the other hand, is a general term for an accelerated release of energy generating extreme temperatures, releasing of gases and expanding volume. Explosions may be supersonic as in the case with detonations using high explosives like Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN) or subsonic and initiated by deflagration (combusting materials via heat transfer) of low explosives like gun powder, as seen in fireworks or Hollywood pyrotechnics.”
I think those folks know a thing or two about explosions and detonations, hey?
Posted by: Scuppers | Jan 16 2021 4:12 utc | 63
Why Martin Chulov, the Guardian's Middle East correspondent and author of the piece, did not do the basic diligence of checking the records or chose not to tell his readers that such address sharing is extremely common and does not prove anything is beyond me.
If the Guardian had a proper fact checker that would defeat the purpose of the Guardian in the first place. I'm not sure if that counts as a circular argument.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jan 15 2021 16:41 utc | 23
And you can get your nails and a (bikini) waxing done next door. I guess it's safer that doing it at home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJEetU0O64&feature=youtu.be
(Mrs. Brown's boys)
Posted by: Tom | Jan 16 2021 4:25 utc | 65
James @63 and a friend of mine looks very much like tall one playing the guitar. My friend also speaks Russian. Going to have some fun kidding him! TNX.
Posted by: Tom | Jan 16 2021 4:43 utc | 67
tom - tell him how impressive it is he has putin playing drums in his band!
Posted by: james | Jan 16 2021 4:54 utc | 68
Sun Tsu maxim number 104: "On a ground without arguments, you confuse." Detonation is a method of causing explosions, e.g. in firearms. In old times, detonators were not known, so firearms used gunpowder (a nitrate, some sulphur and charcoal) that had to be ignited, so they were hard to use. Some time in 19th century detonators were discovered that could be activated mechanically by striking them. Relatively tiny detonation causes gunpowder to explode, and mind you, no craters are created at the explosion site: a projectile flies away, and causes a crater with another explosion (again, initiated with a detonator).
b: Why Martin Chulov, the Guardian's Middle East correspondent and author of the piece, did not do the basic diligence of checking the records or chose not to tell his readers that such address sharing is extremely common and does not prove anything is beyond me.
Reminds me a movie when one of the characters provides levity with some tricks that advance the plot and follows by a shout "Tricks of the trade, tricks of the trade!". Knowing which checks should be avoided is the basic trick of the trade of a shill. Knowing how to find a sufficiently tricky shill is the trick of the trade of running an obedient, patriotic if you will, publication.
I recall a story how The Guardian was tamed. In the aftermath of Snowden revelations, The Guardian was raided and the people who run it were seriously threatened. Ever since, they diligently follow the orders which are given to them with some sophistication (this is England after all, not Zimbabwe), hence preserving some shreds of "leftists credibility". Apparently, unlikely as it may seem, some people still read it. Just before I stopped reading them, they had an actually interesting series about police shootings in USA. Criticizing local governments in USA is still allowed.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 16 2021 5:01 utc | 69
@#60
lol.....why didn’t you quote the entire web page for context? Here it is for benefit of others reading your post. Yes, Los Alamos knows but you don’t...tsk, tsk
https://www.lanl.gov/museum/news/newsletter/2018/08/detonation.php
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 9:10 utc | 70
@#61 james.....anarchists......fvck them
@#66 Peter......that reads like a mental fart. Detonation is a physical and shock induced thermochemistry process.
A detonator is an initiator (a thing......Not a process) which provides the initial umph by friction, impact or shock.
In mining, a blasting cap is the initiator and so it receives the name of detonator. It would convert an electronic current that starts the primary mechanical kick which then activates the HE booster sending a shockwave powerful enough to detonate the HE charge (sometimes called “the powder” although it may not be powdery. ( no one says “to explodethe charge” because that would be unscientific). Alternatively, a detonating cord may be used but it doesn’t initiate by electronic current but instead by a weak shockwave but strong enough to initiate the booster which will then detonate the charge.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 9:32 utc | 71
@#66
Peter......if you ever had a detonation in your firearm, it would turn the barrel into purée and might incinerate your fingers ....for comparison or illustration....try firing a blasting cap or detonating cord on your bare hands.....lol.....actually don’t try that....I have heard of illegal fishing method where people lose their hands foolishly.
Firearm’s ammunition is loaded with propellants not explosives. They are activated by percussion. The trigger releases the hammer which then strikes a pin that needles the round in the back. There is no detonator needed and no detonation happening thus no crater. The hot gas expansion generated by the impact on the back of the round propels the round through the barrel.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 10:21 utc | 72
@#59
Mark, an explosion is a rapid fire at subsonic speeds accompanied by the thermal expansion of the combustion products or the non chemical catastrophic release of accumulated energy in the form of accumulated pressure from a pressurized container.
a detonation in contrast is a supersonic release of energy creating a shockwave that propagates spherically incinerating anything in the path of the shockwave.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 10:45 utc | 73
@#66
Peter, think about it this way: no automaker puts a detonator (yikes!) in your air bag but an azide propellant. lol
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 11:04 utc | 74
@#1 Kaiama
"The Grauniad surrendered to the security services many years ago."
The Cardigan IS the security services, or so they believe. Just that they don't remember which number.
Personally, I'd think it more approprietly to refer to their "churnalists" as M.I. Tuppence Ha'pennies.
Posted by: El Sid | Jan 16 2021 11:15 utc | 75
@ Sun Tzu
Scuppers's LANL quote @ Scuppers | Jan 16 2021 4:12 utc | 60 fits the bill, period.
Posted by: Hmpf | Jan 16 2021 11:15 utc | 76
Stonebird | Jan 15 2021 19:39 utc | 41
They usually fire stand-off missiles from Lebanon or over another country - so Syria won't shoot back over a friendly airspace.
That doesn't explain why Syria doesn't retaliate. The "friendly" qualifier hardly applies when such an airspace hosts an enemy force. One could make the distinction that one country is helpless, as is the case for Lebanon while others are complicit, as is the case for Jordan or Iraq.
As you state in your closing comment, there is indeed a great disparity between Syria and Israel. A full spectrum disparity. In my opinion, calling it out for what it is can help erode the narrative dominance.
Posted by: robin | Jan 16 2021 11:39 utc | 77
all i see is London London London London and the Guardian
Posted by: wee ciaran | Jan 16 2021 11:47 utc | 78
James @ 63:
Hope you don't mind me nicking your link to that Youtube jazz improv performance clip and posting it over at Mark Chapman's The New Kremlin Stooge blog. That's right up Mark's alley.
Posted by: Jen | Jan 16 2021 11:49 utc | 79
It is important to use the correct words.
With that said, real professionals, and scientists in particular, are careful to avoid using specialized jargon with people outside their specialization. While such specific terminology is useful within the specialization to efficiently communicate subtle details of interest to those who share that specialization, it adds little of value to conversation with those outside that particular field of study. In fact doing so interferes with communication. For example a chemist using lingo specific to chemists while discussing with a mechanic, and vice versa, impairs their ability to communicate. The two might as well be speaking different languages.
The use of the term "explosion" in our host's article is entirely appropriate. The word is broadly understood across discourse communities as referring to a violent release of energy that wrecks things. While it certainly would be fine to say something like "Since we might be talking about it a lot in this thread, a more precise term for what happened would be 'detonation'", to insist that it is wrong to use "explosion" in the current context is asinine.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 11:56 utc | 80
@80
Bill, No it is not asinine when considering that we have become a society that prides to be technologically advanced and savvy. Otherwise we may propagate laughable misnomers such as “the super duper hydrosonic (toothbrush, eh?) missiles of Mr Trump
In any case, accurate language is all about the velocity. There is a huge difference between laminar, turbulent, subsonic, sonic, supersonic and hypersonic flow. The flow regimes and the designs required to achieve such velocities are key to understanding the technological challenges, breakthroughs and their destructive power.
For example: the DDT or Deflagration to Detonation Transition is not called Deflagration to Explosion Transition for a reason.
Printed and/or Spoken language is the main thing that differentiates us from other primates.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 12:54 utc | 81
@#80
Bill, btw I only commented on the verbiage by our host because he is referring to an event involving an Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer pile in the port’s warehouse. Had he been posting about a mechanic shop (as in your example) or a bakery having an explosion, I wouldn’t have bothered to insist in accurate language.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 13:07 utc | 82
"...language is the main thing that differentiates us from other primates."
Sure, but don't get airs about it. You're still a primate given to flinging your own feces like a gibbon.
None of the issues you mention are relevant to the current article, and physical characteristics of the event are issues that have already been discussed in depth in this forum months ago, so you are not even bringing anything new to the community other than a ridiculous and obsessive-compulsive fixation on a single word.
As for western societies being emotionally invested in their own technological competence all that I can say is that you must not have spent much time on university campuses lately.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 13:26 utc | 83
@#83
your propensity to use ad hominem fallacies shows your intellectual prowess and true self.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 13:37 utc | 84
Posted by: robin | Jan 16 2021 11:39 utc | 77
That doesn't explain why Syria doesn't retaliate.
.
.
.
A full spectrum disparity. In my opinion, calling it out for what it is can help erode the narrative dominance.
I'm not sure what the confusion is about but it's always been clear to me why Syria does not retaliate:
The israelis have a very big, very dangerous military superpower at their beck and call, and should Syria decide to response (and they have sufficient missile capability to level Tel Aviv, Haifa and other major cities in israel) they would then have to contend with a response from a superpower, potentially NATO as well.
On the other hand, were israel bereft of both American and European military backing, Syria would be able to respond in kind to any israeli attacks. It's missile capability alone would be enough to maintain the balance of terror.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 16 2021 13:39 utc | 85
@Et Tu #8
You're thinking too hard.
Matt Taibbi has nailed it on the head: Facebook and Google's ongoing strangulation of news via monopolization of the channel and demonetization of classified ads has forced newspapers (and other media) to become ever more click-bait focused. This in turn has caused them to focus ever more narrowly on "engaged" (read: made angry) groups.
The Guardian's turn is directly linked with Russiagate, not Snowden.
Posted by: c1ue | Jan 16 2021 14:15 utc | 86
...
... to insist that it is wrong to use "explosion" in the current context is asinine.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 11:56 utc | 80
Yep. Totally true and relevant.
Ironically, Sun Tsu is woefully ignorant about bullets/firearms :-)
So he's not an expert on everything that goes Bang...
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 16 2021 14:31 utc | 87
@#87
.....bc Horsewhisperer says so.
An example of circular logic.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 15:13 utc | 88
Sun Tzu @84: "Muh ad hominem!"
What are you, "woke" or something? Hypersensitive to the point that you think everything is about you? I said you are a primate, but you had already admitted you understood that to be the case with "...differentiates us from other primates."
Now go hide in your safe space until your tears dry up and try trolling again when you get your hyperventilating under control.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 15:20 utc | 89
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 13:26 utc | 83
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 16 2021 14:31 utc | 87
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 13:37 utc | 84
How come you guys don't pull out a textbook, or academic paper and use a commonly accepted industrial or academic definition before you go tearing each other to pieces?
Surely these are established terms in the scientific literature?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 16 2021 15:21 utc | 90
As predicted, they (the americans) solved the Trump/domestic shit, now they are back at the foreign shit.
Posted by: Smith | Jan 16 2021 15:22 utc | 91
Posted by: Smith | Jan 16 2021 15:22 utc | 91
If the Americans think this qualifies as "solved" they're in for a rude awakening.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 16 2021 15:29 utc | 92
@ Arch Bungie
Depending if Trump supporters actually radicalize and stop clinging to grifters like Trump or the Q psy-op, if these "patriots" still cling to these pied pipers, yeah, I think they are "solved".
The system in the USA is set up for lesser evilism, where both sides see their corporate parties as the "lesser evils" despite the consistence policies from both.
Posted by: Smith | Jan 16 2021 15:44 utc | 94
Arch Bungle @90
If you think I claimed that "detonation" was the wrong word to characterize the cataclysmic chemical reaction on August 4th of last year then you need to work on your reading comprehension. The key point is that the precise characteristics of the explosion are not relevant to the current post by our host. It is off-topic.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 15:46 utc | 95
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 15:46 utc | 95
If you think I said anything other than what I wrote, it is you that needs to work on your reading comprehension because the entire meaning and intent of what I said is stated in the lines I posted and not in-between.
What are you, "woke" or something? Hypersensitive to the point that you think everything is about you?
Now go hide in your safe space until your tears dry up and try trolling again when you get your hyperventilating under control.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 16 2021 15:58 utc | 96
@#95
hate to repeat myself but your propensity to using ad hominem fallacies against @#90 shows your intellectual prowess and true self.
Posted by: Sun Tzu | Jan 16 2021 15:59 utc | 97
Posted by: Smith | Jan 16 2021 15:44 utc | 94
if Trump supporters actually radicalize and stop clinging to grifters like Trump or the Q psy-op,
Now there's the rub ...
The system in the USA is set up for lesser evilism
When the size of the evil is so great lesser evilism resolves to a choice between Baal and Dagon.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 16 2021 16:03 utc | 98
@ Arch Bungle
The catch is that Baal IS the Dragon, except it uses two names to force two blocs of people to vote for this name against the other name.
How to defeat it? The recognition of this fact and dealing with this unimonster as a united bloc, not two.
Posted by: Smith | Jan 16 2021 16:11 utc | 99
Arch Bungle @96: "If you think I said anything other than what I wrote..."
So basically you didn't say anything? That's cool.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 16 2021 16:27 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
The Grauniad surrendered to the security services many years ago. Their spelling is still rubbish though.
Posted by: Kaiama | Jan 15 2021 12:36 utc | 1