Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 03, 2020

Open Thread 2020-95

News & views ...

Posted by b on December 3, 2020 at 16:15 UTC | Permalink

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Neil Clark voices a common and valid observation about "lockdowns" (mostly in the UK):

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/508473-uk-debenhams-close-covid19/

"What all the advocates of lockdowns and draconian restrictions on business have in common is that they’re all in highly paid and secure jobs, usually in the upper echelons of the public sector. This is the real Covid divide of 2020.

I’m not just referring here to government ministers like Health Secretary Matt Hancock, who gets £141,000. Or pro-lockdown MPs on £82,000, plus all the other perks. Or the well-paid union leaders. Or indeed the well-heeled government scientists and members of SAGE. Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty is on a salary of £200,000.

Today, Whitty tweeted that the newly authorised vaccine was only a “step” towards normal and strongly hinted that restrictions would need to continue until at least the spring. How many more businesses will that bankrupt? But rest assured Chris will still be getting his salary paid in full each month, whatever happens.

And then there’s the high-profile lockdown- promoting ‘A-List’ media celebrities too, like Piers Morgan, the co-presenter of Good Morning Britain, who tweeted in 2017 that he gets paid £22.5 million a year.

When I hear these people spout off about how restrictions shouldn’t be eased, or need to be strengthened still further, I am always reminded of the words of Upton Sinclair. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it,” the great American novelist once said. We can update Upton for 2020: “It is difficult to get a man to understand the negative effects of lockdowns and draconian Covid restrictions when his salary won’t be adversely affected by them.”

Posted by: Bluedotterel | Dec 3 2020 16:24 utc | 1

This is not the crisis yet. Capitalism will suffer another big financial crisis until circa 2022:

A credit crash ahead?

COVID-19 is just an accident. An appetizer. The true crisis still yest to come.

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 16:42 utc | 2

Of course there is always this. From John Whitehead:

https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/warp_speed_ahead_covid_19_vaccines_pave_the_way_for_a_new_frontier_in_surveillance

"These COVID-19 vaccines, which rely on messenger RNA technology that influences everything from viruses to memory, are merely the tipping point.

The groundwork being laid with these vaccines is a prologue to what will become the police state’s conquest of a new, relatively uncharted, frontier: inner space, specifically, the inner workings (genetic, biological, biometric, mental, emotional) of the human race.

If you were unnerved by the rapid deterioration of privacy under the Surveillance State, prepare to be terrified by the surveillance matrix that will be ushered in on the heels of the government’s rollout of this COVID-19 vaccine.
...
The end goal? The creation of a new “human” species, so to speak, and the NSA, the Pentagon and the “Matrix” of surveillance agencies are part of the plan. As William Binney, one of the highest-level whistleblowers to ever emerge from the NSA, said, “The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control.”

Mind you, this isn’t population control in the classic sense. It’s more about controlling the population through singularity, a marriage of sorts between machine and human beings in which artificial intelligence and the human brain will merge to form a superhuman mind.

“Google will know the answer to your question before you have asked it,” predicts transhumanist scientist Ray Kurzweil. “It will have read every email you’ve ever written, every document, every idle thought you’ve ever tapped into a search-engine box. It will know you better than your intimate partner does. Better, perhaps, than even yourself.”"

Thought Richard would enjoy this if he's still around.

Posted by: Bluedotterel | Dec 3 2020 16:58 utc | 3

Posted by: Per/Norway | Dec 3 2020 16:53 utc | 3
Doesn't seem to open

Posted by: Bluedotterel | Dec 3 2020 17:00 utc | 4

b... designate a special thread for all the ''one issue only posters'' that want to yammer on about covid only on every thread... they've already proven they aren't responsible enough to respect moa however... that would be acting like an adult and they're incapable of it.. call it thread the ''endless one issue posters only'' thread...

Posted by: james | Dec 3 2020 17:04 utc | 5

@ Bluedotterel | Dec 3 2020 17:00 utc | 5

Somebody doesn't want you to see certain things, go figure!

Search: CORMAN-DROSTEN REVIEW REPORT

Review of the Corman-Drosten Paper by top-notch experts, one of them Michael Yeadon, former chief scientist with Pfizer.

Posted by: Hmpf | Dec 3 2020 17:15 utc | 6

My wife and I both tested Negative !
Recently got the results.

Hurrah !

You might be able to imagine what that is like.

You worry about your wife and the sore muscle symptoms she has...worry, worry ... the heart is a muscle too!
I only had two days of minor sniffles and maybe a trace of sniffle after that. My sniffles started four days
after her muscle aches started. As we were both showing known symptoms (one apiece) we decided to get tested. We take our
temperatures, heart rate and oxygen levels most every day (been doing all of them daily since April) and
these have been steady even now. No elevated temperatures and solid oxygen levels, still...we felt compelled
to get tested.

You worry about the small businesses (like your chiropractor or your barber)
that might (would?) have to close down because of contact with *you*.
The friends and associates you interacted with even minimally you would then *have to* at least notify and apologize to.

Pandemic, you suck.

I read the headlines...like right at this moment, the main headline at Reuters is U.S. pandemic death toll mounts as danger season approaches and I take it in, but I always have in the back of my mind, "these headlines have for a long, long time proven themselves
to be agenda-driven and NOT fact-driven". It is Reuters and they have no credibility. What a fix, what a mess. You can't trust anything
any more. So what to do?

We stay safe.
However, we will wait and wait and wait before we get our vaccines.

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2020 17:17 utc | 7

Pepe Escobar's latest, "No escape from our techno-feudal world: How the Washington consensus ended up metastasized into the Silicon Valley consensus," ought to be read as soon as it comes out from behind its paywall especially by the tech-savvy, and of course by everyone else too. Existing outside of that nightmare we are provided an explanation of how China's so-called social credit system works:

"Durand [Author of the analysis being discussed] offers a finely balanced analysis of the Chinese credit system – a public/private hybrid system launched in 2013 during the 3rd plenum of the 18th Congress of the Chinese Communist Party under the motto: 'Value sincerity and punish insincerity.'

"For the State Council, the supreme government authority in China, what really mattered was to encourage behavior deemed responsible in the financial, economic and socio-political spheres, and discourage what is not. It’s all about trust. Beijing defines it as 'a method of perfecting the socialist market economy system that improves social governance.'

"The Chinese term – shehui xinyong – is totally lost in translation in the West. Way more complex than 'social credit,' it’s more about 'trustworthiness,' in the sense of integrity. Contrary to the pedestrian Western accusations that it’s an Orwellian system, priorities include the fight against fraud and corruption at the national, regional and local levels, against violations of environmental rules, against disrespect of food security norms."

This complements China's goal to achieve one united polity whereas this new extension of Neoliberalism aims at further fracturing the polity so its more pliable, docile, and amenable to further division and rule.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2020 17:23 utc | 9

Bluedotterel messed up the format. WILL PEOPLE NEVER LEARN???
If your link goes off page in preview, don't include it or use
HTML TAGS!

DAMN.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 3 2020 17:32 utc | 10

There is something very clear about the significance of this pandemic in the contrast between the Chinese and the US responses to the same virus.
In China the recognition of the dangers of the new ailment led to a massive, popular, which is to say labour intensive, effort to implement, quickly, the common sense programme of isolating those infected, tracing their contacts for possible infection and testing all suspected of carrying the virus.
At the same time increasing understanding of the novel virus was translated into new methods of treatment and the development of remedies.
The net result, at this time, appears to be a total death toll of less than 5000. The effective suppression of the disease and a restoration of all economic activities with the economy actually growing at a rapid pace. Bear that figure in mind-less than 5000 deaths in a population about five times that of the USA. A population which spends more money, per capita, on 'healthcare' than any other.

As to the situation in the US, and, thanks to its legacy hegemonic position, its hundred or so satrap nations, fixated on the mirage of American competence and trembling in the face of its power, military and economic... the contrast could hardly be more dramatic, in the USA approaching 300,000 are already dead and the pandemic rages with unprecedented power. In the various 'mini me' countries such as Brazil, Sweden and the UK similar rates of infection and death are found.
In geopolitical terms the pandemic that kills is not Covid but neo-liberalism which has swept away entire generations, emptied nursing homes and made a grim of satire of their designation as "Care" homes.

And around us-in the blighted "West"- the air is full of clowns raving that small business and the petit bourgeoisie, victims of their irresponsible and selfish opposition to public health regimes and socialised medicine, are victims of a conspiracy to over value human life.
And the alternative to China's sensible, time tested measures, is a race to devise a magic bullet, a vaccine, a commodity for the market place, a focus for stock speculation and price gouging.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2020 18:00 utc | 11

Word Socialist Web Site has also recently addressed the "techno-feudal" future:

Biden-Harris Tech Policy: Militarism and Censorship
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/12/02/tech-d02.html

The attack on Section 230 will amplify the reversal of net neutrality, ruin the internet as once known, and consolidate a tech/military fusion impervious to democratic reform.

Posted by: jayc | Dec 3 2020 18:12 utc | 13

Per Norway and bluedotterl are from off-Gardian a U.K. Israeli lobby group ‘trojon horse, misinformation site.
The broken page is deliberate and malicious!
This is what happens when we allow the right wing a platform. They are anti-free speech by nature.
Yes I know that’s a paradox.
Antifa worked that one out 80 years ago.
A well respected history tarnished by the bad guys.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 18:12 utc | 14

LA Imposes Toughest Lockdown Yet To Avoid "Devastating Tipping Point" As COVID Hospitalizations Soar

LA Public Health
@lapublichealth
·17h
COVID-19 Daily Update:
December 2, 2020
New Cases: 5,987 (414,185 to date)
New Deaths: 40 (7,740 to date)
Current Hospitalizations: 2,439

Severe lockdown for 2400 hospitalisations ? We built a field hospital at Nasrec with 2000 beds equipped with ventilators but the Californians can’t even do that ??? The virus is exposing the fact that the richest state in the US with a GDP of $1T did not invest enough in its own infrastructure even before the pandemic.
A dearth of hospital beds has been a worldwide problem throughout the pandemic, but California, with a population of 40 million, has a particularly acute shortage. The wealthiest state in the wealthiest country has 1.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people, a level that exceeds only two states, Washington and Oregon, according to 2018 data compiled by the Kaiser Family Foundation. California has one-third the number of beds per capita as Poland.

A dearth of hospital beds has been a worldwide problem throughout the pandemic, but California, with a population of 40 million, has a particularly acute shortage. The wealthiest state in the wealthiest country has 1.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people, a level that exceeds only two states, Washington and Oregon, according to 2018 data compiled by the Kaiser Family Foundation. California has one-third the number of beds per capita as Poland.

Posted by: Down South | Dec 3 2020 18:19 utc | 15

L.A. County issues dire warning amid ‘alarming increases’ in coronavirus cases
This headline is from 29 June 2020

They’ve had ample time to build extra facilities but used that time poorly.

Posted by: Down South | Dec 3 2020 18:30 utc | 16

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 18:00 utc | 13

Mishustin`s answer to Li Kekiang, the creation of digital corridors between OBOR and EAEU for trade, and space cooperation. The Chinese are planning their own space station and Russia probably will feel the pressure once the USA do not depend on Roscosmos like they have for the last few years.

http://government.ru/news/41002/
Broadband from ISS

Posted by: Paco | Dec 3 2020 18:38 utc | 17

Another thread trashed by an inconsiderate barfly, two days in a row now...

Below is a link to the most recent blog posting by Ellen Brown which explains
why the US banking system is failing and what public banking solutions are being forwarded

Why the Fed Needs Public Banks

Private finance is a structural problem for our species unless our goal is to self destruct.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 3 2020 18:47 utc | 18

karlof1@10:

Don't know the exact chinese characters you are referring to in shehui xinyong, but i'm guessing it probably means 'credit of practical benefit'. Xinyong means 'credit; trust'; shehui means 'actually beneficial' or 'practically beneficial'.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 3 2020 18:51 utc | 19

Boy that trick where you right click on the offending element, bring up the "Inspect" window, right click on the offending element in the Inspector window, and delete it. Voila!

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2020 19:06 utc | 20

Bluedotterel | Dec 3 2020 16:24 utc | 1

Thank you for your postings. It's much worse then what you point out. Covid 19 is a dream come true for all the leftists who which to increase political correctness and the Woke Revolution. Plus it's paradise for all virtual signalers. Just wear a mask and you can show the world how much you care. Also how much better you are than those evil people who won't wear masks. It's a wonderful new social dynamic for these people. Live and let live no longer exists. Instead the most self righteous behavior is encouraged and rewarded.

Throw in all the simpleminded people just plain frightened by 9 months of fearmongering, and we've already lost our society. There are no excess deaths. People may be dying with Covid 19(using a faulty test how can anyone know?) but they are not dying of Covid 19. These facts no longer matter to half the population. Why should they care about reality when they have their Covid Cult and can create their own reality?

Posted by: EoinW | Dec 3 2020 19:06 utc | 21

RE: "Another thread trashed by an inconsiderate barfly, two days in a row now..."

-Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 3 2020 18:47 utc | 19

Suggest to all MOA link format complainers:

Send *directed* donations to B, specifically to hire a web site tech savvy person to fix things to make his forum mobile-friendly so links wrap around page properly. Should not be *that* diffficult...

Posted by: gm | Dec 3 2020 19:08 utc | 22

@ Posted by: Bluedotterel | Dec 3 2020 16:24 utc | 1

The solution for the problem you (through Neil Clark) is simple: pay the workers while they're locked down.

I'm sure that, the moment you keep paying them, they'll stop complaining about the quarantine instantly.

Lockdowns as being inherently against the working class is a capitalist (liberal) falsification: if you pay them while they're kept safe in their homes, you'll have the best of the two worlds for the working class (being paid without working). This option is only an anathema for the middle class and the capitalist class - who can't imagine a world without the proletarians serving them.

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:14 utc | 23

bevin | Dec 3 2020 18:00 utc | 12

I came across one interesting fact the other day. Lombardy (Italy) that had such problems at the outbreak of the "pandemic", was "experimenting" with Private-Public health services. In contrast, China had an overall reaction which encompassed all the health services available, Cuba has a good public Health service etc. The US, which is "private" has problems even now.

Is there a correlation between Private Health establishments and an inability to react efficiently? Could explain a lot, that at the first symptoms there was little or no overall strategy, it was (my) profit comes first.

(The UK seems to have been taken over by "managers" whose education seems to have been a crash postal course in business management. Plus having watched films such as "is there a doctor in the house", "Dr. Finlay's casebook", and reading "Nurses weekly" under the bed clothes. With apparently no hands-on experience of medecine. The hands-on experience was possibly what they were there for, but not of patients).

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 3 2020 19:22 utc | 24

bevin | Dec 3 2020 18:00 utc | 12

Is this the same China that's been claiming 8% economic growth annually for the past two decades? They make up whatever number they like and that's their growth. Yet we're expected to believe they are frank and honest about their Covid 19 experience? 50 million Chinese might have died and none of us would be any the wiser.

Deaths are a moot point. The global death total for 2020 is going to be at the high end of the average it was expected to be. It's not going to be double or triple the 2019 death total - which one would expect is there really was a pandemic. So what exactly has China accomplished? Actually they've achieved an impressive accomplishment. Allow me to explain.

In 1945 the Anglo-American democracies won the conflict to determine which political system would prevail for the second half of the century. With the fall of the USSR, China found itself virtually isolated as the sole significant authoritarian nation. They've been dealing with this isolation for 25 years. Consequently their system has been under constant threat. Not any more. With 2020 and the betrayal of every western democracy by it's political elites and oligarchs, we now see that the Chinese system is prevailing. Their authoritarian system is being adopted by each of our nations. This is the future...a Chinese style future. 50% of western populations who support lock downs and all the other totalitarian measures are guaranteeing the death of our free societies.

Give the CCP its due. Instead of extinction, it's in the process of exporting it's political vision across the globe. Leon Trotsky is glowing with envy.

Posted by: EoinW | Dec 3 2020 19:23 utc | 25

Dedicated to music lovers around with Georgia on my mind.

So far the best link collection I found. Yes not so easy to read "legalese", but hearings are more easy to understand.

Let's see if I can copy this, yes works:
********************************
Otherwise, I would like to offer you one link only. Ok maybe two?

Hearing, poor judge, watch Kraken Powell::
ttps://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/11/20-11-29-Pearson-v-Kemp-120cv4809-F-1.pdf

In case you haven’t looked into “Georgia on my mind”.#

So far the best collection link I could find.
https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/georgia-certification-challenge/

********************************

Ok strictly in the larger context a judgment by judge Amy Totenberg, may be of interest:
I don't have the link to the decision at hand, but at the end of her 146-page long decision she admonished the admin to make sure, ironically enough, to make sure the case wouldn't fall on the court's doorsteps again.

At that point no doubt time was running out. But the admin nevertheless didn't make sure the system was hardened and hired a couple of pen-testers or white hats to at least test it? ....

https://www.govtech.com/elections/Federal-Judge-Denies-Effort-to-End-Touchscreen-Voting-in-Georgia.html

*******
Now that's the kind of information that is censored in some intel expert innocent blogs

Posted by: enigma | Dec 3 2020 19:23 utc | 26

If the covidiots cannot stop breaking the page or learn how to use HTML tags to shorten their unceasing external links, then I too have no problem relegating them to their own thread(s).

Posted by: _K_C_ | Dec 3 2020 19:23 utc | 27

A dearth of hospital capacity is being touted as the driver for lockdown. This is another great example of fear mongering by withholding the context. At 6:27 minutes in this interview of Dr. Margaret Flowers by Chris Hedge, Dr. Flower points out that from 1975 to today, the population of USA has increased from 215 million to 331 million. Yet at the same time, the total number of hospital beds has decreased from 1,500,000 t0 925,000!!!
https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/507334-covid19-america-health-crisis/

When the population increased by 53% the hospital capacity decreased by 38%. Without this contextual information, no wonder that the population is so very afraid of the dangerous corona virus, that they are willing to allow the government to inject them with a concoction made by a new technology, whose long term effects are unknown, and even whose efficacy is questionable at best. It is questionable on multiple fronts. If I understand it correct, Pfizer measures efficacy by quantifying any reduction in symptoms (rather than immunity). Besides, the occurrence of covid-19 is being measured with an ill-defined test method (see here https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/).

It is so easy to fool people who cannot think critically.

(Disclaimer: I have nothing against traditional vaccines, which I take. I am also not saying that COvid-19 is harmless. Rather its dangers are being overblown. Especially overblown is the inherent virulence of the virus in comparison to other related parameters that ultimately cause death)


Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Dec 3 2020 19:24 utc | 28

Posted by: gm | Dec 3 2020 19:08 utc | 23

It's not just "mobile" users. Look at the Brexit entry. How does it render for you on a standard PC/Mac web browser? Scroll down to William Gruff's comment on how to fix it. Edit: It looks like b removed the offending post by per/norway, but prior to deletion and without Gruff's "inspect and delete" procedure, the page was rendered unusable for "mobile" users (including tablets) but also PC/Mac/desktop/laptop users.

The fact of the matter is that it's the same people over and over violating link etiquette. It's a judgment call for me - if the raw URL is shorter than, say, 30 characters, I sometimes don't use the < A HREF>< /A > (spaces removed, link and "headline" inserted), but usually it's considered good form to respect the local norms. There is also bitly.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Dec 3 2020 19:34 utc | 29

Exclusive: Labour right linked to campaign to shut down The Canary

On 2 August 2019, an anonymous internet campaign named Stop Funding Fake News (SFFN) celebrated its apparent success in downsizing The Canary. For six months, SFFN had been trying to demonetise The Canary by lobbying companies to remove advertisements from its website.

The Canary can now reveal that Morgan McSweeney, Sir Keir Starmer’s chief of staff, launched the organisation that now runs SFFN.

These are the "liberals" that "won" WWII and then the Cold War. Freedom, freedom, freedom... über alles!!!

--//--

@ Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Dec 3 2020 19:24 utc | 29

The numbers are correct - the USA really did see a decline in ICUs since the privatizations. Doesn't change the fact that it is just now, because of the pandemic, that the system is getting overloaded.

Moot point by ms. Flowers.

--//--

@ Posted by: EoinW | Dec 3 2020 19:23 utc | 26

But didn't you state in your previous comment that COVID-19 wasn't causing any excess deaths?

This is Schrördinger's virus you're talking about: kills zero Westerners but 50 million Chinese.

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:35 utc | 30

*Schrödinger.

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:35 utc | 31

@ Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:35 utc | 31

You decrease per capita beds and then say that we have to lock down because there there not enough beds. And it is a moot point to point it out? Did I misunderstand you?

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Dec 3 2020 19:40 utc | 32

Ok so ther is a troll farm attack going on, on this page.
The I mentioned already pus —-
Eoinw and enigma. One other suspect at least.
You can allways tell the people telling the truth, they are the ones that come under attack.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 19:51 utc | 33

All hail the centrist dictator:

Labour suspends two activists for backing Corbyn in anti-Semitism row & accusing Starmer of ‘colluding with Tories’

Irony here is that one of the suspended is Jewish - but a socialist Jewish.

You know how this works: it is not enough for one to be a Jew, he/she has to be the right kind of Jew.

--//--

Headline (not the URL)Half the world could get Russian Sputnik V Covid-19 vaccine, say creators, as Moscow starts distributing doses en masse

The Western Big Pharmas have a decision to make: block the superior Russian vaccine or give up in the name of reactivating their economies?

--//--

@ Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Dec 3 2020 19:40 utc | 33

In order to avoid a collapse, you:

1) build more ICU beds;

2) decrease the number of sick;

3) both (the correct option)

The governor of California was unwilling to do (1), so he had to do the second best thing, which is (2).

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:52 utc | 34

https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/piers-morgan-vows-inject-covid-vaccine-live-tv-health-secretary-matt-hancock-3054645

But how do we know its the real thing he injects? Could be saline, right? He's done worse things (or he might not even know). As the saying goes, "As ignorant as an Actor".

Posted by: groucho | Dec 3 2020 20:00 utc | 35

@ Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:52 utc | 35

It is not a moot point to point out that part of the reason for the high fatality rate in the USA from Covid-19 is the lack of (in fact a continuous decrease in) the per capita hospital bed. If we had more per capita beds then there would have been less number of deaths - and therefore people's perception of the lethality of the virus would be lower.

Not sure what your point is. With that I'll let it rest.

Posted by: Nathan mulcahy | Dec 3 2020 20:01 utc | 36

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 19:14 utc | 24

There is a difference between the Chinese lockdowns and the current situation in the West and that is that China never was in a position to lock down very much of their country, primarily Wuhan, to begin with and a few other isolated areas since. Thus, China has never had to shut down their economy, or even a major portion of it. They contained it locally immediately, while most of the country went about busines as usual. Certainly, their socialist inclinations helped, but that was not all.

The general incompetence or worse in the US, for example, has made Covid so widespread that targeted lockdowns are now impossible. They will not stop the virus. Thus one has to learn to live with it, by managing businesses without lockdowns, or very minor ones. Instead, preventive measures such as masks and distancing are of some importance, plus a focus on treating the disease properly in hospitals and quarantining people at home for a couple weeks, while contact tracing others.

The genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in. Corporate neoliberalism is a much more dangerous "virus" for humanity than Sars 2, but even China has not and cannot extermiate COVID19, the fifth human corona virus to this point (the others may very well have begun in a similar manner to a greater or lesser extent). Nor can a vaccine help in any significant way, not any more than natural "herd" immunity. Like the flu, the common cold and the other corona viruses, we simply have to manage it, and hope it evolves into something a little less contagious over time.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Dec 3 2020 20:03 utc | 37

My comment at Mark2 @ 34 above
Typo second line down shoul read ——-
The 2, I mentioned plus —-

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 20:03 utc | 38

"It's not just "mobile" users. Look at the Brexit entry. How does it render for you on a standard PC/Mac web browser?"

-Posted by: _K_C_ | Dec 3 2020 19:34 utc | 30

The "Brexit" post looks fine to me on my laptop (as does this current open thread, aside from being 'stretched out')--but maybe the site did some clean-up of run-over links.

This long link/mobile readability disruption issue has been a perennial difficulty at MoA.

I encounter this problem rarely on other sites, so I conclude that if it remains after all these years, it is because either :

A) b wants it that way, or

B) it costs more to fix than b has to budget.

Since most blog forum owners would want to reach and expand their voice to as large an audience as possibl,e and that is where the mobile internet audience is,
I would expect the reason this issue has not been fixed relates to factor (B) from above.

Hence my suggestion @ #23 above...

Posted by: gm | Dec 3 2020 20:09 utc | 39

Blue dotteral wants you dead.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 20:18 utc | 40

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 20:18 utc | 41

Who do I want dead? Actually, I want to save lives, not ruin them.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Dec 3 2020 20:21 utc | 41

@Mark2 "You can allways tell the people telling the truth, they are the ones that come under attack." so the ones you accuse of malfeasance are included right?

Fuck yer delusional.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 3 2020 20:22 utc | 42

Pay attention tanenhouser
Were discussing RIGHT wing trolls. Idiot.
Like you.
But don’t bother me again can’t you see I’m busy.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 20:34 utc | 43

@Mark2 So antifa trolls like you get a pass? That it?

Fuck yer delusional

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 3 2020 20:39 utc | 44

@Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2020 17:17 utc | 8

I just reread my post @8.
I concluded @8 with
"However, we will wait and wait and wait before we get our vaccines."

The concluding line is ambiguous, dang it.
I am *not* saying we have been waiting with bated breath for a vaccine to become available.
I *am* saying that once a vaccine becomes available you can find us at the tail end of the
line of guinea pigs.

They are experimental, folks, especially the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.
Will side effects take a month, six months, years to show up, or do you have to wait for your future offspring to
show the effects?

Good luck with that, folks.

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2020 20:49 utc | 45

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/12/1079132
UN commission reclassifies cannabis, no longer considered risky narcotic

Posted by: tucenz | Dec 3 2020 21:08 utc | 46

vk@24

The solution for the problem you (through Neil Clark) is simple: pay the workers while they're locked down.

I'm sure that, the moment you keep paying them, they'll stop complaining about the quarantine instantly.

Talk for yourself, it is showing that the working class you commune with either despise their own trade and craft or that they only value it for the price of their exploitation, which could only amount to a profound alienation. It is also starting to transpire that you either live a life of a scared hermit by choice or that you haven't experienced a confinement in the terms that they are being imposed in Europe.

Lockdowns as being inherently against the working class is a capitalist (liberal) falsification: if you pay them while they're kept safe in their homes, you'll have the best of the two worlds for the working class (being paid without working). This option is only an anathema for the middle class and the capitalist class - who can't imagine a world without the proletarians serving them.

The best of two worlds you mention are depressingly poor, dehumanized. The marxists I know love work and share it in solidarity with fellow comrades, that is how they make this current dystopian world liveable, a salary for no work would consist of an even worse perversion. Working under capitalism may not make you free, but enriches a workers life beyond the grasp of the exploiting class and fulfils it with the wealth they can only dream of. You take that away you might as well remove their opportunity to emancipate their working conscience. The struggle comrade vk!

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Dec 3 2020 21:11 utc | 47

Vasco da Gama @48: "Work like a socialist for your capitalist boss's profits!"

You don't know any Marxists.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2020 21:21 utc | 48

Way to go for Hunter Biden. This is a truly innovative financial venture model.

Maybe Karma Harris should get a cut, they could buy some entire hotel in a slum and rent it back to the democrat inauguration non-profit and hold all their functions there and call it 'Getting close to the people' or even a 'Bernie Sanders hope convention':))

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 21:21 utc | 49

@21 BEMILDRED I'M GOING TO CAPITALIZE THIS COMMENT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT.

YOUR SOLUTION IS CODDLING AND EXCUSING THE OFFENDERS WHO DELIBERATELY
MUCK UP THE THREAD FOR OTHERS. YOUR SOLUTION DOES NOT, I REPEAT, NOT
WORK WITH ANDROID DEVICES AND PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GO OUT OF THEIR WAY
SO OTHERS CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL TO DERAIL DISCUSSION!

BLUEDOTTEREL AND PER/NORWAY AND A FEW OTHERS SPREAD RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACIES ESPECIALLY
REGARDING COVID, AND POST LINKS THAT RUN OFF PAGE AND DELIBERATELY MESS UP
THE FORMAT FOR EVERYONE ELSE. WHY DO I WRITE DELIBERATELY? BECAUSE, IT'S HAPPENING
ON EVERY THREAD NOW. THIS CANNOT BE A COINCIDENCE AFTER I AND OTHERS REPEATEDLY
WROTE: STOP THIS. CHECK LINK ON PREVIEW AND DON'T POST IT IF IT GOES OFF PAGE OR USE HTML TAGS ON THAT LINK.

ENOUGH.

Thousands of people are dying from Covid daily, nurses, doctors are crying out to heed restrictions, witnessing multiple Civid deaths daily and these malicious deniers are derailing discussion on the facts.

Trump should face criminal charges for his own irresponsible behavior in regards to Covid!

Posted by: Circe | Dec 3 2020 21:22 utc | 50

Hard for US, Europe to unite against China: Global Times editorial

If the USA and Europe really believe in the free market, then they should stop with the sanctions and protectionism and immediately open their markets for the Chinese capital. In exchange, China will stay true to its principles and continue with its socialist system of protectionism, raising more and more barriers to Euro-American capital.

Let's see which system is superior.

--//--

Bold prediction:

UK passes 60,000 deaths, Sweden shuts schools: COVID-19 daily bulletin

The Europeans can continue to drink their cafés and their chic wine in hell.

--//--

@ Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Dec 3 2020 21:11 utc | 48

Your argument is false because:

1) it would be the State that would be paying for the working class to stay at home; workers pay taxes, too;

2) even if they would receive a portion of the profit of the capitalist class via the State, that would merely mean it would be getting back what is deservedly theirs, as the working class is the source of all value capitalism produces. Profit is merely another name for stolen value from the working class by the capitalist class. This is simple macroeconomics, I don't understand how I must still explain this here;

3) it would be just until the pandemic is over, not for all eternity. Unless, of course, you're fearing this taste of Paradise will incite the working class to do a communist revolution.

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 21:31 utc | 51

Further to my previous post - from a forbes article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/12/02/un-removes-marijuana-from-list-of-most-dangerous-drugs/?sh=6546d3c077dd


"...China, Pakistan and Russia were among the countries that were opposed to the reclassification. ..."

Posted by: tucenz | Dec 3 2020 21:33 utc | 52

EoinW | Dec 3 2020 19:06 utc | 22

There are no excess deaths. People may be dying with Covid 19(using a faulty test how can anyone know?) but they are not dying of Covid 19.

So why are the hospitals filling up?

As to mask use: a mask will catch some virus particles (and some bacteria and fungal spores), therefore it protects your health and that of people around you. If everyone wears a mask there will be less diseases spread. (Less 'flu, fewer colds, less spread of TB.) Mask wearing is not lethal and not for ever. Stop the stupid bitching and wear one for the sake of other people if not for yourself!
The idea that opposing mask-wearing is somehow promoting "Freedom" is ridiculous. The Chinese with their epidemic under control are vastly more free than we in the UK with our raging disease. E.g. the Chinese are free to not wear a mask if they feel like it.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Dec 3 2020 21:38 utc | 53

@Vasco de Gama and vk,

I mostly agree with Vasco de Gama, since this is not temporal, but thought to be a permanent state ( for the masses of unemployed which will bring the coming technological revolution ) in which being dependent on the state, all the more in the prospect of a digital currency and increasing tight surveillance state, olice state, and censure, would place you in the hahds of the state, which could disconnect you from you meager basic income anytime you would wish to ask for a rise or any other social right you deem will benefit you.

This is only a way to control the masses in a prospect of harsh deterioration of life conditions.

Going to work in a physical place faclitates interaction amongst peers, which at its time facilitate the formation of synergies and organization for a common goal.
This is what is to be avoided in a scenario of millions of permanent unemployed.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 21:51 utc | 54

Another two good news:

Chinese spacecraft takes off from moon with samples

Xi Jinping outlines challenges lying ahead of China's war on poverty [GRAPHS]

All in all, 2020 was an awesome year. I expect 2021 to be even better, as we probably won't see another 4,000+ deaths from COVID-19 nor amother Q with a 6% drop of GDP.

Posted by: vk | Dec 3 2020 21:53 utc | 55

Stonebird | Dec 3 2020 19:22 utc | 25

(The UK seems to have been taken over by "managers" whose education seems to have been a crash postal course in business management. Plus having watched films such as "is there a doctor in the house", "Dr. Finlay's casebook", and reading "Nurses weekly" under the bed clothes. With apparently no hands-on experience of medecine. The hands-on experience was possibly what they were there for, but not of patients).

You forgot "Carry On, Nurse!"
Before Thatcher, hospitals were run by the Senior Surgeon and the Matron. Thatcher thought this was "inefficient" and "a waste of expert time, better spent on purely medical matters." and imposed a system of NINE (9) tiers of management which increased the cost by a factor of ten over five years. She also privatized the ambulance service and sold hospital car parks to car park companies and insisted that hospital be owned by "Hospital Trusts" and compete against each other. (The trusts, like the Ambulance Service and the carparks, IIRC were supposed to show a profit.)

Posted by: foolisholdman | Dec 3 2020 21:54 utc | 56

Everyone in their various silos are declaring the system is rigged, but they criticize other silos (OWS, BLM, Trumpers, etc) when those silos actually get out and protest. What's it going to take for the various silos to come together under a unified recognition that the system will not reform from the inside. TPTB will keep encroaching until the frogs do something about the water heating up.

Posted by: davenitup | Dec 3 2020 21:57 utc | 57

I am amazed by the extent of the Anglo/ zionist capacity for self deception.

Australia's ABC Radio can't distinguish between 'our values' and 'our' foreign policy objectives.

These objectives always coincide with US foreign policy objectives.

The two are not the same.

So the thief keeping the stolen property and presiding over a tyranny is not a noble 'value.'

https://radio.abc.net.au

Posted by: Paul | Dec 3 2020 22:00 utc | 58

librul #46

They are experimental, folks, especially the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.
Will side effects take a month, six months, years to show up, or do you have to wait for your future offspring to show the effects?

Thanks librul, I suggest the following: Avoid experimental vaccines, invest in the Venezuelan medicinal that is reported to stop coronavirus of many types in their tracks.

What has happened to that promising Venezuelan remedy?

When pressed by a GP or some authority to take a vaccine you respond with a proforma document that:
- recites any and every medical condition you have ever had asking them to confirm no side effects,
- holds them entirely responsible for any consequence from their advice/demand,
- insert their name and address and verification document that you have seen,
- if you must vaccinate insist on one you trust,
- they will likely tell you it is unavailable/unauthorised in your country,

- if GP etc refuse to proceed then you can explain that you attempted to vaccinate but the GP refused to take the risk given your medical condition,
- if later challenged, only recite your medical history and refer them to the GP etc and say nothing else.

Otherwise don't panic, much water will flow under the bridge in the next year.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 22:05 utc | 59

Like the flu, the common cold and the other corona viruses, we simply have to manage it, and hope it evolves into something a little less contagious over time.

well said Blue Dotterel (38, Dec 3)

@foolisholdman, 54
Hospitals are always fill up during the winter respiratory virus season. SARS-CoV-2 is not the only respiratory virus in circulation at present.

Posted by: cirsium | Dec 3 2020 22:09 utc | 60

Tannenhouser # 43

Its the gm free mushrooms he and the other pick up from the candy man.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 22:11 utc | 61

Here is the googletranslate of the statement from Cuba.
https://www.unodc.org/documents/commissions/CND/CND_Sessions/CND_63Reconvened/statements/02Dec_partI/Cuba.pdf

1 CUBA'S SPEECH AT THE RECONVENTION OF THE 63rd SESSION OF THE CND, in item 5 of the agenda: Application of the international drug control

Mr. President, Excellencies, distinguished delegates:

We attend this meeting with great expectations, and with the hope that It emerges strengthened the drug control and control system, to be able to address more effectively the World Drug Problem, which, far from diminishing, is deepening and worsening every day. drug production and trafficking? How not to worry, knowing that more than 192 million people use cannabis in the world, as estimated in the 2020 World Report? The scourge of drugs extends to all geographic regions, generates and reproduces cycles of poverty, violence, social exclusion, delicate health situations and various criminal behaviors It will be very difficult to solve the problems of mass production and trafficking of drugs from the South without eliminating the majority demand in the North. Today it is more important than ever to recognize and apply the principle of common and shared responsibility. This scourge, in all its facets, will not be solved if countries continue to be militarized, devastating peasants, disrespecting national sovereignty and ignoring the particularities of each region. It will be resolved through the flexibility of international control systems, much less legalization, or assuming drugs as harmless substances. Understanding this as a solution could imply accepting that States do not
They may or may not want to comply with their obligations to combat crime and protect the health of its citizens.For this reason, Cuba does not favor this approach, which opens spaces of greater danger for the stability of our nations and which may affect other transnational crimes It is also unfair to generalize when stating that a rigorous approach to the drug problem is responsible for the current magnitude of this scourge. A more objective and in-depth analysis is required that includes the way in which anti-drug policies have been interpreted and applied in some countries and regions. It is necessary above all to analyze the root causes and not forget, in this context, the incidence of an order unequal, unjust, selfish and inequitable international, and of a political, economic and social model, universally imposed, where the corrupting power of those who seek profit at all costs prevails. These factors constitute a basic breeding ground for the world drug problem and its related scourges.

Mr. President: There are experiences that show that an effective approach against drugs is possible when comprehensive, preventive and educational policies, led by the State, are developed and applied. Also when there is social inclusion, popular community participation, with universal, inclusive health systems that offer accessible treatment and rehabilitation, without discrimination of any kind, complemented with a firm confrontation with crime, through efficient legal systems, with well-prepared officials and broad international cooperation. Under these precepts and with great effort, our country has ensured that the production, trafficking or consumption of illicit substances is not a significant social problem, and has prevented its territory from becoming a platform for criminals for drug trafficking and related crimes.
3 The Cuban Revolution, without abundant resources and under a strict economic, commercial and financial blockade of the United States of America has been successful in addressing the world drug problem, due to the firm political will of its government and the support of the people .Mr. President: This is the moment to reaffirm the political commitment of States and other actors to the International Legal Framework for drug control, of which the two Conventions and the United Nations Convention on drugs are the cornerstone. Cuba is extremely disappointed by the result of the vote on recommendation 5.1 to exclude the cannabis plant and cannabis resin from Schedule IV, the strictest of the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, although we appreciate that this recommendation was adopted by only 2 votes difference. Our country does not favor the change of the current regulatory system, we are fully convinced that cannabis is by far the most widely consumed drug worldwide and that it is also a porter drug that marks the initiation of the consumption of more powerful and harmful drugs. ..."

to be continued

Posted by: tucenz | Dec 3 2020 22:12 utc | 62

Jacques Attali: "We will never leave states of emergency"

https://twitter.com/Stalec_/status/1334258473207554049

Especially in France, where social contestation is at the vanguard in Europe....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 22:13 utc | 63

cirsium #61

Hospitals are always fill up during the winter respiratory virus season. SARS-CoV-2 is not the only respiratory virus in circulation at present.

Well seems to me like cemeteries are full up too this season. Now that's different (unless you live in Iraq or Syria).

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 22:15 utc | 64

@Vasco. agreed the worker is compensated in many forms: the good feel from performing a job well done being only one.

that being said most opposition to the wests so called "lockdowns" are out of economic concerns (in my experience Canada) so I agree w VK as well

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 3 2020 22:17 utc | 65

William Gruff@49

I am having trouble finding that quote of mine WG. In any case thanks for the information with respect to my acquaintances.

vk@52

1,3) Nothing wrong with being paid when on sick leave, we fought hardly for that, my trouble is subsidizing excess zeal in diagnosing sickness. I am not trusting those in the government not to make of it an eternity if we lower our guards (see UBI push). It has been the fait accompli policy ever since I bothered to look.

2) Deservedly worker's no doubt, yet unproductive and for how long? Practically borrowing from the future while twisting the banks debt nut on the countries' some further notches, for how much sovereignty?
I was hearing you then and hear you now, the problem is if workers let them, it will not be capitalist profits that will pay for those layoffs, so far it has been paid by the social security balance. I've seen this film back in 2008/14, I remember the misery I've seen, some of it the exact reason our health system is today in further difficulty facing C-19. Ask anyone!

3) As I see it, and I am hopeful to be shown wrong asap, the class conscience haven't materialised yet, though I am told it can happen fast... cheers.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Dec 3 2020 22:18 utc | 66

EoinW | Dec 3 2020 19:23 utc | 26

Give the CCP its due. Instead of extinction, it's in the process of exporting it's political vision across the globe. Leon Trotsky is glowing with envy.

Care to give ONE example of the CPC pushing its system of governance anywhere in the World?

The USSR (and the PRC pre Deng Xiaoping) spent most of its propaganda effort on warning the working classes in the West and the third World about the real nature of the Capitalist system and where it was leading. It was mostly ignored. The Capitalist system is now showing that the CPSU(B) had its analysis right and the cheerful voices in the West had it wrong. The way the West is heading, has SFA to do with the CPC or the PRC.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Dec 3 2020 22:21 utc | 67

continuing from #59

3 The Cuban Revolution, without abundant resources and under a strict economic, commercial and financial blockade of the United States of America has been successful in addressing the world drug problem, due to the firm political will of its government and the support of the people .Mr. President: This is the moment to reaffirm the political commitment of States and other actors to the International Legal Framework for drug control, of which the two Conventions and the United Nations Convention on drugs are the cornerstone. Cuba is extremely disappointed by the result of the vote on recommendation 5.1 to exclude the cannabis plant and cannabis resin from Schedule IV, the strictest of the 1961 Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, although we appreciate that this recommendation was adopted by only 2 votes difference. Our country does not favor the change of the current regulatory system, we are fully convinced that cannabis is by far the most widely consumed drug worldwide and that it is also a porter drug that marks the initiation of the consumption of more powerful and harmful drugs. I conclude by reiterating the absolute commitment of Cuba to the achievement of societies free of illicit drugs, a vital element to achieve sustainable development and the well-being of our peoples. Thank you very much

Posted by: tucenz | Dec 3 2020 22:21 utc | 68

Announced by Christine Lagarde ( former IMF director, now director of ECB )2024 the starting year of the 6th techno-economic paradigm ( more than 50% of the world industry will be dominated by robotics ) will also be the year of the total digitalization of the euro ( already patented in 30/09/2020 we can check that fact in the European Union Intellectual Property Office (EUIPO)).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoR1EkEXcAEkoO8?format=jpg&name=900x900

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 22:21 utc | 69

It is not just the French people in mass who says it...

Five UN rapporteurs have estimated that the global security law that the French government wants to pass is "incompatible with international law" and contains provisions that can limit human rights.

https://twitter.com/descifraguerra/status/1334568660707516416

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 22:33 utc | 70

EoinW

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Dec 3 2020 22:42 utc | 71

H.Schmatz@55

Going to work in a physical place faclitates interaction amongst peers, which at its time facilitate the formation of synergies and organization for a common goal.

Exactly this Schmatz, the effect was felt along with the teleworking push. The mere ability to share a laugh, a problem, or knowledge side by side, removed away from the picture. At the expense of everyone, workers and productivity alike. To some postponed benefit, much alike a carrot on a stick.

Tannenhouser@66

I know most opposition in the west do show economic "concern", in truth small and medium business are taking a serious hit. Yet I know of no civilization both successful and unproductive simultaneously. My argument will have cohabit with this collage.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Dec 3 2020 22:44 utc | 72

The jerkov @ 4, a blue dotterel has made all other's comments worthless,
the effort to read becomes not worth the candle.

(1) It is so simple to copy/paste the black part of the HTML +A HReF… onto your
comment starting on the left side;
(2) delete the part between the quote (") marks;
(3) copy paste your link exactly where the deleted part was between those quote marks;
(4) then go to the part between the > and headline or notice about your link or even just a 'here'
to indicate your link as many being thrifty with their creative reserves do and the process is done.

The readers and lurkers will think you are brilliant when you haven't gone
and screwed up your wet-dream of a comment.

When you see hyphens (-) between the words in the link, the HTML +A HReF… is not
needed as the line will be broken at the hyphen naturally without changing the link.

When you see an underline (_) ALWAYS USE the +A HReF…

Always start a link on the LEFT Side of a line unless your +A HReF… headline is part
of your sentence as it will be line wrapped normally.

The more consideration you show others the more will be shown you at the end of the day.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Dec 3 2020 22:48 utc | 73

"Nobody has any intention of building a wall.” Walter Ulbricht, First Secretary of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany, Berlin, June 15, 1961.

“We do not want to create a ministry of truth.” Věra Jourová, EU Commissioner for Values and Transparency, Brussels, December 3, 2020.

Posted by: passerby | Dec 3 2020 22:49 utc | 74

Trump should face criminal charges for his own irresponsible behavior in regards to Covid!

Soon Biden and Harris will join that category of irresponsible behaviour.

Come to think of it, Biden and son are already in that category and Sanders is well and truly 'irresponsible' by the basic legal definition of undermining the legitimate expectation of citizens that their political leaders will not set out to mislead, or filch their hard earned cash through political donation fraud. Some might think this is normal for politicians but in actual fact it is a crime - through wire fraud definition - and an unsavory breach of oath.

I see Ivanka has some girlsplaining to do regarding the inauguration non-profit and await news of the same practice by Hunter and 'the big man'. Now, as for Harris - it appears to me that she is in legion with the USAi incarceration racket and throughout her career has, by judgements, administrative decisions and directions set out to deprive individuals of their liberty and income by mandating jail terms for misdemeanors.

Karma Harris - What a low scoundrel.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 22:52 utc | 75

VK @ 24:

"... Lockdowns as being inherently against the working class is a capitalist (liberal) falsification: if you pay them while they're kept safe in their homes, you'll have the best of the two worlds for the working class (being paid without working). This option is only an anathema for the middle class and the capitalist class - who can't imagine a world without the proletarians serving them ..."

We all live in an interconnected world and middle class, capitalist class (whatever that's supposed to mean) and proletarians alike supply goods and services to one another. Money is the medium that facilitates such exchanges. It follows then that proletarians also serve one another and ditto for the other classes.

If working classes are paid to stay in their homes, who then supplies their needs? In spite of Jeff Bozo's efforts and those of Elon Musk, not all transport is self-automating and robots in Amazon warehouses still need some human inputs to operate quickly and without hitches.

One could also argue that working fulfils other, non-monetary needs. Karl Marx actually foresaw this when he wrote about anomie in capitalist systems of production, in which workers are denied control over their lives and the work they do by being denied any say in what they produce, how they produce it, the resources and environment needed to produce outputs, and maybe even whether they can be allowed to work at all.

Lockdowns can be viewed as another method in which to deny people control over their work and work environments. People socialise at work and lockdowns may be a way to deny workers a place or a means to connect with others (and maybe to form unions). Is it any wonder then, that during lockdowns people's mental health has become an issue and public health experts became concerned at the possibility that such phenomena as suicide and domestic violence could increase?

Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2020 22:56 utc | 76

“If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed. If you do, you’re misinformed.”

~ Mark Twain (apocryphal)

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2020 22:57 utc | 77

foolisholdman | Dec 3 2020 22:21 utc | 68


You can understand this from this quotation. It is the internal contradictions of the wesern capitalist system that is driving the changes we observe, not "pressure applied by China", which I would say is a myth.

"The fundamental cause of the development of a thing is not external but internal: it lies in the contradictionariness within the thing. This internal contradiction exists in every single thing, hence its motion and development. Contradictionariness within a thing is the fundamental cause of its development, while its interrelations and interactions with other things are secondary causes."

"It (Materialist dialectics) holds that external causes are the conditions of change and internal causes are the basis of change, and that external causes become operative through internal causes. In a suitable temperature an egg changes into a chicken, but no temperature can change a stone into a chicken, because each has a different basis."
Mao Zedong. "On Contradiction" August 1937. Selected Works, Vol.1, p.315.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Dec 3 2020 22:59 utc | 78

@59 I always thought Australian values meant sticking up for your mates, drinking Fosters, putting up with Poms, getting along with Sheilas and not hogging the barbie. But I guess times have changed.

Posted by: dh | Dec 3 2020 23:02 utc | 79

Lockdowns are a medical protection to eradicate a contagious virus.
The lock downs we have had are fake and we’re designed to fail. For political reasons.
The very people who complained 10 months ago, were responsible for them not working,
10 months later those people are still complaining. They are the ones who have prolonged the contagion.
They are to blame. That includes the polatians and duped public.
It’s deliberate !

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2020 23:09 utc | 80

T Bear @ 74

For my part I will continue to eschew links. Have occasionally typed them in complete, sometimes just direct readers (if any) to good search terms. Will this be considerate enough? It will definitely make some readers think I am stupid and can’t back up anything I say. It’s only online folks.

If you think anyone can follow those directions you are dreaming. Any who know what you just said already knows how it is done. I can’t even find what you are talking about on screen or on keyboard. You are using terms not known to me as having any English language meaning. Which ones? If you don’t know which terms you just used are indecipherable to ordinary non-technical speakers of English that is why you can’t teach.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 3 2020 23:12 utc | 81

@Vasco73 as with many ways of compensation the same for productivity. I "worked" zero hours and was paid from april to september and would consider this time as my most productive. Who woulda thought a worldwide pandemic and the working stiff catches a break eh? Please ad these thoughts to your collage.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 3 2020 23:30 utc | 82

dh @80--

The Aussies I met at Izmir, Turkey preparing to visit the Gallipoli battlefield told me Fosters is viewed as piss-beer in Australia. We were all enjoying an excellent pilsner brewed at Izmir by a brewery made by Germans prior to WW1. The Pilgrimage to Gallipoli was close to mandatory at the time--1998.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2020 23:45 utc | 83

@Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 3 2020 23:30 utc | 83

The problem with your long payed vacations is that they will be payed by cuts in the already frozen since 2008 and meager wages of already exhausted ( and even some already deceased...)fornt line and essential workers, not by the oligarchs.

The other problem is that only a few privileged sector of workers are being payed, thus creating more division amongst workers and huge inequalities.

Would like to know what your occupation is...

Enjoy while you can...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 23:53 utc | 84

@HSchmatz. I don't disagree. Hence my agreement with VK. Not having the money is an illusion. I 'work' for a large educational entity in Canada. Also CERB saved Canada, at least in the beginning, without it we would be like the states imo.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 4 2020 0:03 utc | 85

@ Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2020 22:56 utc | 77

Obviously, I oversimplified because this is a blog comments section, not a peer-reviewed publication.

1) Not every worker would be quarantined. Healthcare workers would not stop for obvious reasons; stock and transport workers would still work, but on a reduced (more rotation between turns, reduced journeys) rate. Quality of the essential services would probably fall, but it would not be apocalypse;

2) wages of the essential workers would not fall, regardless of reduced hours (or not). Not only they would not fall, but they should be paid handsome bonuses, plus free services;

3) it would not be permanent, but only temporary. Just one or two years.

Posted by: vk | Dec 4 2020 0:06 utc | 86

@84 Yes I understand Ozzies have become quite sophisticated in recent years. They have Thai restaurants now like everybody else. Stubbies are still popular beachwear though I believe.

Posted by: dh | Dec 4 2020 0:13 utc | 87

@ Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Dec 3 2020 22:44 utc | 73

You're disregarding the costs of dislocation from home to workplace. Maybe this isn't such a big problem in Western Europe, but it is a big deal in the rest of the world - specially the Third World.

If you take 2 hours to commute to and from your workplace, that means the worker loses 4 hours per day doing nothing. From the perspective of the services sector - where your dear small business concentrate - this means less happy hours, less trips to the movie theaters, less leisure time in the cafés, etc. etc. You have to compute this alleged "friendship power" effect (which, in my opinion, is pure fantasy for 99.999% of the sectors) of the workplace will compensate for the consumption loss in the services sector.

The average São Paulo worker already spends more in transportation to work/college than with food, since 2019. It is the first time ever this psychological barrier was broken. This is less money to the small businesses you so much love. I don't think this anime-like friendship power would compensate for that loss.

Posted by: vk | Dec 4 2020 0:21 utc | 88

Time to get to the end of this unreadable thread. Let's do it now.


I wrote a verse the other day, and I'm sure others have better ones,
so I won't be tedious or overly modest, just using space.

Anyone who's good at haiku, that would work to move things right along.

Woah, I think that second line above there is a haiku; gee, who knew?


Trouble is, you get the second page and someone quite by chance muffs it.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 4 2020 0:24 utc | 89

China makes Spring Festival Preparation in anticipation of increased outbreaks. The following excerpt is long because many are having problems accessing Chinese and Russian media due to NSA attempts to block access:

"To face this big test, Chinese officials said departments will borrow from anti-epidemic experience gained during the Labor Day and National Day holidays, encouraging people to reduce their travel and gatherings.

"To cope with the possibility of the epidemic emerging in winter, Chinese authorities vowed to take measures to prevent risks brought by imported cases and imported products at the same time.

"Facing a severe overseas epidemic situation, Han said the administration will strengthen the management of international flights to China and reduce flights from high-risk countries entering China, in a bid to further reduce the risks of imported cases.

"China has triggered 'circuit breaker' mechanisms for 133 international routes, preventing 259 flights from entering China since June 8, said a Chinese official, noting that China will continue implementing this mechanism to ensure COVID-19 won't be transmitted via flights.

"Chinese authorities did not give a timeline for reopening China's land and water ports on Thursday, saying they will continue to be closed to international tourists.

"Meanwhile, the international cargo market is operating stably, with China receiving about 15,000 cargo vehicles and about 500 ships from overseas countries per day.

"China's land and water ports have received about 120,000 people back from overseas, all of whom were put under closed-loop management and quarantined before they were allowed to travel freely inside the country.

"If an outbreak does occur, China's National Health Commission said it will dispatch national experts to join the fight against the virus. It has mobilized and trained 2.95 million people as part of a corps of national anti-epidemic experts."

The stats are amazing--500 ships daily and 3 million people ready to do anti-outbreak work. No other nation has put as much effort into protecting its people from the virus and other ailments than China.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 4 2020 0:25 utc | 90

dh @88--

Stubbies are still popular beachwear though I believe.

That is when anything's worn at the beach. Our Aussie barflies will have to comment about that.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 4 2020 0:28 utc | 91

@92 Yes. My observations about Australian life are probably a little out of date. I'm sure they are going through much the same cultural transitions as the rest of the world.

Posted by: dh | Dec 4 2020 0:33 utc | 92

Hi --

Would someone please explain the term "USAi"

Thanks.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Dec 4 2020 0:51 utc | 93

you copy and paste the very last ( number 5 ) of the allowed HTML tags (next to Post a comment) into your rant where you want a link to enlighten your
guest here at MOA.

example: ...you know he is an asshole when he says ( paste HTML tag here )
that is, between the two " marks you drag with your cursor until blue and then paste your copied link

next you drag with your cursor until blue between Headline (not the URL) and type in any word you fancy. In this case I choose "this"
what you end up with in the preview page is:

...you know he is an asshole when he says "this".

you will only see this in preview and "this" will be highlighted for your guest to click on if he wants to read about some asshole.

I can not paste the html tag in my example because it fouls up my post. Be sure to leave all the other parts of the HTML tag in tact. Hopes this helps.

Posted by: George | Dec 4 2020 0:53 utc | 94

"Chang'e-5 probe unfolds Chinese national flag, takes off from moon with lunar surface samples" Excellent article on China's successful moon trip. AI used in the landers liftoff proved good. Someone mentioned China building its own space station but wasn't certain if Russia also planned to do so. Here's a reprint of a Sputnik article I read on the 1st:

"On Thursday, Russia's Energia Corporation, tasked with managing Russian modules aboard the International Space Station, proposed the creation of a new, national orbital space station, to be deployed sometime after the year 2024.

"Russia's next orbital space station may be deployed at an orbit that will allow it to keep an eye on the entire surface of the Earth, and the Arctic region in particular. That's according to an Energia Rocket and Space Corporation document submitted to the Russian Academy of Sciences' Space Council seen by Sputnik."

Perhaps China and Russia will combine their efforts. Seems the Outlaw US Empire's Congress doesn't want to do any exploration with any other nations, nor does it appear the almost bankrupt Empire afford to do so alone.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 4 2020 0:53 utc | 95

Nancy Pelosi the treacherous dog. Bernie Sanders backed these class enemies. AOC loves them.

The democrats are the scum of the earth, the barnacle on the arse of humanity etc.,
see Jimmy Dore

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 4 2020 0:56 utc | 96

AntiSpin #94

"Would someone please explain the term "USAi"


The i stands for the illegal occupier of Palestine. The i stands for the manipulator of the USA political and financial class. The i stands for the illegal spy/blackmail racket run by Les Wexner, Ghislain Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, you know, the gang that has a video library sufficient to have crippled the decision making in the USAi. You can apply the same to UKi and more.

You have been colonised.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 4 2020 1:05 utc | 97

@ AntiSpin | Dec 4 2020 0:51 utc | 94 who asked what USAi might mean

In past discussions about acronyms of empire such as FUKUSi and others
I believe that the small "i" represents Occupied Palestine.
In the case of USAi it may be the same.

While I agree that Occupied Palestine is part of the structure of empire
I don't equate jews as necessarily all of the cult that own global private finance.
I believe they may be part but not all and so would like to add something to our acronyms
to represent the owners of the God of Mammon cult....any suggestions?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 4 2020 1:11 utc | 98

There are times I really like this Pepe Escobar term for the Outlaw US Empire--Stupidistan--and the incoming buch of fools are wasting no time in proving that nomenclature is perfect: "DNI Ratcliffe Warns Next US Administration that China Is 'the Greatest National Security Threat'" instead of taking a look around and declaring the virus as the biggest threat since it's on its way to having killed 300,000 US citizens while China's killed none. What a fool, but that's par for the course.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 4 2020 1:12 utc | 99

Below is a ZH quote about the dying days of the Trump regime

"
The Daily Beast also reported this week Pompeo has been issued free reign to hammer
the Islamic Republic in any way short of provoking major war.
"

Isn't that just precious. Still trying to start WWIII when it is already in motion and
the US still continues to be war neutered and bullying frantic....what sort of FF
will we see in the coming weeks?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 4 2020 1:18 utc | 100

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