Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 02, 2020

Iran's Parliament Is Helping Joe Biden To Rejoin The Nuclear Deal

President elect Joe Biden plans to renew the U.S. participation in the nuclear agreement with Iran. Trump had left the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) which Iran and six other nations had signed. 

Biden is under pressure to attach preconditions for a U.S. return to the deal which Iran would not accept:

Biden and his team have been paying lip service to the notion of rejoining the JCPOA. However, the preconditions they have attached to such an action – Iran would have to return to full compliance first, and commit to immediate follow-on negotiations on a deal that would be more restrictive – were widely seen as a deal-breaker. The fact is, many of Biden’s closest advisers – including Secretary of State-designee Antony Blinken and National Security Advisor-designee Jake Sullivan – have indicated that Biden may have no choice but to continue the Trump policy of sanctions-based ‘maximum pressure’.

So far Biden himself had been somewhat ambivalent about the issue. But in a recent interview with New York Times columnist Tom Friedman he seems to reject the use of preconditions for a JCPOA return to get to a bigger deal:

The view of Biden and his national security team is that once the deal is restored by both sides, there will have to be, in very short order, a round of negotiations to seek to lengthen the duration of the restrictions on Iran’s production of fissile material that could be used to make a bomb — originally 15 years — as well as to address Iran’s malign regional activities, through its proxies in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

Ideally, the Biden team would like to see that follow-on negotiation include not only the original signatories to the deal — Iran, the United States, Russia, China, Britain, France, Germany and the European Union — but also Iran’s Arab neighbors, particularly Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

Earlier this week, I wrote a column arguing that it would be unwise for the United States to give up the leverage of the Trump-imposed oil sanctions just to resume the nuclear deal where it left off. We should use that leverage to also get Iran to curb its exports of precision-guided missiles to its allies in Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iraq, where they threaten Israel and several Arab states. I still believe that.

Biden’s team is aware of that argument, and does not think it is crazy — but for now they insist that America’s overwhelming national interest is to get Iran’s nuclear program back under control and fully inspected.
In their view, Iran’s development of a nuclear weapon poses a direct national security threat to the United States and to the global nuclear weapons control regime, the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

“Look, there’s a lot of talk about precision missiles and all range of other things that are destabilizing the region,” Biden said. But the fact is, “the best way to achieve getting some stability in the region” is to deal “with the nuclear program.”
Then, Biden said, “in consultation with our allies and partners, we’re going to engage in negotiations and follow-on agreements to tighten and lengthen Iran’s nuclear constraints, as well as address the missile program.” The U.S. always has the option to snap back sanctions if need be, and Iran knows that, he added.

That is still a bit murky. Lift the sanctions that were put onto Iran by Trump to get back to the JCPOA but then introduce new sanctions on Iran for its non-nuclear missile program? That is NOT going to work.

Biden will have little time to make up his mind and to return to the deal. In response to the Israeli murder of Iran's top nuclear scientist Mohsen Fahrizade the Iranian parliament has taken steps to leave the limits of the nuclear deal unless the U.S. returns to it as soon as Biden is in office:

Iran’s top political chamber gave final approval to a bill forcing President Hassan Rouhani to end international nuclear inspections unless the U.S. lifts key sanctions by February, giving the incoming Biden administration just weeks to make a diplomatic breakthrough.

The powerful Guardian Council, a political and legal body made up of senior clerics and scholars, ratified the bill on Tuesday and made it a legal requirement, while extending the deadline for sanctions relief to two months, instead of one, Iranian state TV reported.

That would appear to give Rouhani’s government -- severely weakened since outgoing U.S. President Donald Trump walked away from the 2015 nuclear deal -- barely two weeks after successor Joe Biden enters office to make major strides toward brokering the removal of U.S. oil and banking sanctions.

The details of the new law are yet unknown. One part orders the government to lessen the IAEA oversight of nuclear sites in Iran. Another instruction is to create a stockpile of higher enriched Uranium that potentially could be used to further enrich to weapons grade levels:

The plan, among other things, requires the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI) to produce at least 120 kg of 20-percent enriched uranium annually and store it inside the country within two months after the adoption of the law.

The new Iranian law is supporting Biden's argument that a fast return to the nuclear deal is the more assuring path than to bet on time and additional sanctions to gain additional concessions which Iran is anyway unlikely to give.

He should immediately lift the sanctions against Iran and fully reinstate the U.S. as a JCPOA member. Iran has said that it would return to all limits of the deal as soon as that has happened.

The big pipe dream of follow-on negotiation which also include Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates can than be pushed out to a (much) later date.

Posted by b on December 2, 2020 at 17:20 UTC | Permalink

next page »

It's not parliament, helping Biden, it's the Guardian's coucil who decided to change the text of law passed by Parliament thus sabotaging the law, helping neo-libera government of Rouhani and their Yankee negotiation partners, more about this if I get time soon.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 17:31 utc | 1

This article is predicated on Biden becoming the president, which is a huge assumption to make. It seems you haven’t been following the tsunami of election fraud evidence that will drown Biden’s staggering what has been uncovered, a truly brazen attempt to subvert democracy. Surprising you aren’t on this B, I would have thought this is a much more important story than same-old Iran. You know, the world’s biggest and most influential “democracy”.

Posted by: Clifton | Dec 2 2020 17:44 utc | 2

i don't like biden, clifton, but there isn't a tsunami of new evidence of fraud. the republicans gained seats in the house and will probably still have weak control of the senate. people were just sick of trump, particularly his response to the virus.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 2 2020 17:53 utc | 3

Thank god Joe Biden won the fair and just election.
But to read this kind of opinion, 8 think we will be better informed in CNN because it does have a bigger BUDGET to cover it all.

Posted by: Zico the Musketeer | Dec 2 2020 17:53 utc | 4

thanks b... is it okay to ask why the usa is concerned about iran and not israel?? israel isn't a part of the non proliferation of nuclear weapons... they are not that coy about anything...

quote from the nyt- "In their view, Iran’s development of a nuclear weapon poses a direct national security threat to the United States and to the global nuclear weapons control regime, the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons." the usa is the biggest threat as i see it, and using the nyt as a mouthpiece for this crap makes it all the more so... as many have noted - the usa is not able to negotiate in good faith... any agreement that iran is crazy enough to enter with usa will not be honoured... the usa has no honour to uphold... their sanctions essentially war on iran... no one is fooled by any of this... biden will have his hands tied in anything that happens... if the usa was actually concerned about foreign influence they would start examining this sick relationship with israel first and foremost...

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 17:57 utc | 5

Hopium comes in many forms

Zionist Deep Stater Biden is EMPIRE FIRST, just as Trump and Obama and GWBush and Clinton and ....

Although the US establishment (esp. Democrats) pretended to hate Trump, Biden will 'bank' all Trump Administration policy "gains" and extend them (while moaning about "facts on the ground"). Example: Biden Will Preserve Trump's China Tariffs & Trade Deal As "Rapid Reset" Of Relations Looks Unlikely

Reminder: There is still some uncertainty about whether there will be a Biden Presidency.

<> <> <> <> <>

I've been warning that when the hopium expires Iran's frustration (because Trump is wins a second-term or Biden can't deliver) could be the basis for a false-flag.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2020 18:05 utc | 6

"Iran’s malign regional activities" - translation: Fighting ISIS and other jihadist proxies.

Posted by: worldblee | Dec 2 2020 18:05 utc | 7

ziko, cnn lies all the time. b doesn't. all you have to use is common sense. if the democrats fixed the election, they would have already won the senate and gained seats in the house. but, they haven't already won the senate, and aren't likely to get to 50-50 which would allow harris to break ties. and, they lost seats in the house. ergo, they didn't fix the election. hugo chavez didn't reach out from the grave to depose trump. trump wouldn't keep getting his cases thrown out of court by republican judges, or called out by republican state officials to move on and accept the result of the election. would the dnc fix the election if they could? undoubtedly, the way they fix the primary process. did they do it in this case? no evidence they did.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 2 2020 18:06 utc | 8

oh, and things won't change much with biden in office, some donors will be happier than others depending on which party they contributed more money to, and there will be a more diverse cast of warmongers. the only change is biden and the democrats aren't committed to the proposition that the virus is a hoax, trump's greatest blunder which lost him the election.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 2 2020 18:09 utc | 9

The concept that "Iran’s development of a nuclear weapon poses a direct national security threat to the United States and to the global nuclear weapons control regime" was a bluff that was called a decade ago when Brazil and Turkey managed a workable agreement with Iran which resolved the concerns. This led to a State department freak out and the scuttling of the plan. This led to the Security Council involvement and the ensuing wide support for a UN sanction regime based on multilateral nuclear negotiations - which the US did not actually want but were cornered into through their own rhetoric. (and they didn't believe that China would actually support a sanctions program). This neutered the US' aggressive plans and lifted the status of the UN in this instance to a countervailing presence. A unilateral approach or a multilateral approach - those are the stark choices for the Biden team: maintain the hegemonic posture or get realistic. Also, a regional dialogue about "malign activity" obviously needs to recognize all such activity, and Israel is not prepared to go there.

Posted by: jayc | Dec 2 2020 18:16 utc | 10

@Clifton #2
There was widespread tampering with this election, but it was legitimate via expanded mail-in balloting due to COVID.
There are certainly a number of oddities - such as counted ballots exceeding ballots mailed out in large areas, but ultimately the ongoing legal and procedural challenges will resolve those.
It is also certain that some significant number of ballots were cast in people's names - without the actual people doing the voting - but this certainly happened with both sides. There's a reason mail-in balloting has traditionally been de-emphasized.
The ultimate problem is a complete lack of standards or even consistency with how various states handle their elections.

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 2 2020 18:24 utc | 11

slightly ot... john gilberts shared a youtube video in the previous iran thread that i think deserves some consideration... basically the theory the video gives is that saudi arabia, or the emirates helped Iran's top nuclear scientist Mohsen Fahrizade out of iran! it is an interesting theory.. check the video out if you are interested in the rationale.. 18 minute video.. you can skip the first couple of minutes..

Things are very often not as they seem.

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 18:26 utc | 12

Clifton @Dec2 17:44 #2

The information management around election malfeasance is palpable.

It's not just pro-Democratic Party media or even anti-Trump media but across the board.

As with Covid, it feels like its being gamed. Gamed to:

  • knock the Democrats/Left (once again)

    corrupt to the core!;

  • strengthen Trump as a populist leader via (yet more) kayfabe

    Biden's picks show us his connection to the Deep State/establishment;

  • further Democracy Works! propaganda

    we can make it work better!;

  • justify increasing censorship/crack-down on "liberal media"/social media;

  • create uncertainty/confusion (wrt Iran policy, war planning, etc.).

And maybe other reasons that are not easy to decipher.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2020 18:31 utc | 13

Again, Iran has, as the JPOC allows, left the limits imposed. One side - the West - has not complied with easing of sanctions. (We can ignore USA, it is no longer a party.)

USA wants what Israel wants, as the foreign policies of the 2 countries are joined at the hip.

Israel (mainly) wants security from missiles that can obliterate it (it is a small country).

Iran uses military support for Palestine as leverage against USA via Israel - punishment for the historic USA coup against Iranian democracy.

Israel wants access to Saudi airspace (as it already has to Azerbaijani airspace) to threaten Iran, because, missiles...

Israel knows that Lebanon will eventually have enough sovereignty and missiles to prevent their illegal air incursions to attack Syria. Which they do to pressure Iran. And inhibit advanced (Iranian, Chinese, Korean) missile acquisition.

But Security Council resolutions demanding Israel leave the illegally occupied Syrian Golan territory have not gone away. Russia supports the principled implementation of Security Council resolutions - including the return of Syria's occupied territories (all of them).

Russia has been manouevering for years for a grand resettlement of the Middle East so all peoples can get on with their lives, and trade open up.

Nuclear weapons can't be used. Everyone knows that. Especially in the crammed -up Middle East.

Drones, missiles, jamming, remote military ordinance operation - all this has turned conflict upside down. As Iran says, any strike by US against Iran is not just "off the table", it is "under the table". Due to missile and drone advances. These advances will not stop. And for Iran, China is now a partner.

So this kabuki of enrichment etc is designed as a circuit-breaker.

All this will be given up, no further missile supply to Houthi, no further missile supply to Lebanon and Syria IF USA/Israel are capable of agreeing to totally remove all sanctions, pay reparations.

Iran can then make other Middle east agreements with Saudi etc to maintain peace in the Gulf.

I think all this (and more, in time) is possible.

Benefits everywhere.

Posted by: powerandpeople | Dec 2 2020 18:33 utc | 14

Seems pretty reasonable, which worries me because we are not a reasonable and agreement-capable nation, as has been clear recently.

If this actually comes to pass in Jan/Feb, I may reassess the utility of a Biden imperium.

As for follow-on negotiations, as b says it'll be a long shot and depend on the relative servility of the EU continuing and China/Russia axis not becoming the dominant partner for Iran anyway. While they can, Iran should set up binding, long term arrangements for oil sales in sanction proof banking schemes using non-dollar assets.

Posted by: Caliman | Dec 2 2020 18:37 utc | 15

pretzelattack, c1ue, others

If Trump doesn't manage to win a second term by questioning how the election was conducted he will still have 'poisoned' a Biden Presidency just as Trump's Presidency was poisoned with Russiagate.

That 'poisoning' is a feature, not a bug. It forces Biden to continue Deep State policies that Trump initiated.

My belief and understanding is that USA began the process of countering the Russia-China alliance in 2013-14 and that initiative is the top Deep State priority. Whoever ultimately wins election, that priority remains. I see advantages, from Deep State POV, of either Trump or Biden. But I think Trump would be preferred by the Deep State if a major war was planned in the next four years.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2020 18:46 utc | 16

Two weeks is probably the time they estimate the "Biden" Presidency will last.


They have noticed that the US never lifts sanctions. (with one small possible exception)- Usually they add to them at frequent intervals and complement that with telephone calls to person or groups NOT sanctioned, but threatening them with the same. (as they do Russia)
Why allow more time for the US to change it's habits, when it won't?

Khomeini's tactic seems to have been to inch further away from the JCPOA slowly, without triggering a reaction from the rabid war dogs. The Guardian Council seems to say that "why should assassinations and terrorist acts against Nuclear research etc, continue to be tolerated". Patience has a limit.

Note that the end of the period agreed to for limiting arms imports, has not led to reduced sanctions. That was an "agreement" not a sanction (unless one counts the "possibility" of snap-back sanctions as sanctions in themselves)

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 2 2020 18:57 utc | 17

This analysis is speculative because of the huge hurdles. First, it is not given that Biden will become president. Second, There are 70 to 85 million voters who believe they have been disenfranchised by fraud. If only 3% of those react to become ungovernable, then much of the economy will be shutdown. This will be an all consuming problem for the Biden/Obama government.

Posted by: Nev | Dec 2 2020 18:59 utc | 18

First and foremost, Biden will become POTUS as even Barr has admitted the election was essentially clean:

"'To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election'"

Yes, Russia is still awaiting the official announcement before it says anything, but Biden will be POTUS unless he dies prior to 20 January.

That established, I don't see the Zionist Biden altering the policy since its target goes beyond Iran and thus beyond Occupied Palestine's perceived security interests--there's the much greater threat of a much better example coming from China and Russia who are designated Twin Enemies. So, whatever Biden does regarding Iran that must be seen within the scope of the much Bigger Picture. What Biden might fashion is an end to the Saudi, UK & Outlaw US Empire's war on Yemen. There's also the illegal troops in Syria and the need to withdrawal troops from Iraq before they get pushed out. And there remains Afghanistan. One thing Trump did was to make opposition to the Forever Wars bipartisan; and the very pressing requirement for COVID-related individual and state relief will make additional funding for Empire a more difficult proposition--I'm thinking 2022 midterms already.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 19:26 utc | 19

When Hillary was Secretary of State, she advocated taking out Syria to disrupt the so-called Shia Crescent. Can't see Israel nor the neocons allowing going back to Obama's agreement. She and her minions also advocated directly bombing the Assad regime and military forces believing the Russians would do nothing about it.

Posted by: Erelis | Dec 2 2020 19:40 utc | 20

19 Cont'd--

One further note, this comment from Lavrov's Pressr following the meeting of the CSTO Council of Foreign Ministers:

"The SWIFT payments system is one of the areas where ultimatums and threats are being advanced by those who do not want the situation in Belarus to improve but are trying to further aggravate it. The network was created by the Americans and their allies for financial transactions needed for normal trade in goods and services, as well as investments and for nearly all other spheres of economic life.

"The conclusion from this is simple: we must create our own mechanisms, which will not retain our dependence on the West, especially since it has demonstrated its inability to act as a reliable partner on many occasions. It is no longer safe to rely on the multilateral instruments that are fully controlled by Western agencies.

"Discussions about the transition to national payments systems are moving from theory to practice in Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. The SCO heads of governments met the other day. This is a very important subject, and we will be working to implement it in practice regardless of the developments involving SWIFT and any other steps our Western colleagues take." [My Emphasis]

It's difficult to know just where the SWIFT alternative is in terms of moving "from theory to practice," but IMO it has the highest of priorities and will be utilized as soon as its completed. I also envision it being easy to expand such that other nations can easily be included, which makes such an action a very serious threat given the recent trade agreements and further solidarity and expansion of the Eurasian Bloc. Once Iran gets incorporated into the alternative, the leverage enjoyed by the Outlaw US Empire will rapidly melt away to nothing. So, there's another case for continuing patience on the part of Iran, as well as for desperation by the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 19:43 utc | 21

Mr. karlof1

The destruction of Iran was of utmost importance to the Americans - to wit: they used that which was economically equivalent to a nuclear weapon against Iran.

Regardless of their success or failure against Iran, other states have observed the demonstration of Americans' financial power and thus have moved to shield themselves against that power; a slow process but a strategic necessity for many other international actors.

Since Iran has weathered their economic war, she has established that life without the United States and Western Financial system is possible.

If Americans were smart, they would have kept this financial nuclear bomb in reserve for a real case of emergency and threat against the United States and her allies. As is, they used their weapon wantonly and publicly and thus diminished it strategic value.

Posted by: fyi | Dec 2 2020 20:14 utc | 22

pretzel@8 - Well said, that isn't an angle I have thought about, but you nailed it. If the fix was in why didn't they win across the board?

Nev@18 - You need to accept the fact that biden is going to be potus, this farce is nearing the end. You mention 70-85 million disenfranchised voters and the possible result of that. Let's assume trump could overturn the results, that would still leave a (different) group of disenfranchised voters.

Seems like a no win situation to me. How did we find ourselves here?

A narcissistic asshole, with the aid of a bunch of power hungry psycho/socio-paths, began sowing doubt in the minds of simple minded americans quite a while ago, and here we are, just as said asshole and his psycho friends planned. Good times ahead!


Fucking thomas fucking friedman! Can't this sorry sack of shit die already?

Posted by: visak | Dec 2 2020 20:28 utc | 23

The myth of the JCPOA expiring in 15yrs
These measures include: a long-term IAEA presence in Iran; IAEA monitoring of uranium ore concentrate produced by Iran from all uranium ore concentrate plants for 25 years;"

This specifically calls out uranium ore processing but the IAEA issues quarterly reports on Iran's stock and degree of their enriched uranium and I do not see that explicitly called out in the agreement. There is no sunset clause on that. If it is not included, this would be a reasonable thing to ask for.

There is all of this horror over Iran developing advanced centrifuges but all that means is that they can get the same amount of fuel with less equipment to manage. We are all better off if Iran just has to track 4,000 centrifuges rather than 16,000.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Dec 2 2020 20:32 utc | 24

The situation of the USA in Iran is very precarious. Iran holds all the cards.

The only chance for the Americans is to regime change Iran, from within. Anything else will be a big and unconditional L.

Posted by: vk | Dec 2 2020 20:41 utc | 25

fyi @22--

Thanks for your reply. It should be noted that the SWIFT alternative wasn't begun until Russia was hit with illegal sanctions after the NATO-sponsored coup in Ukraine and subsequent escape of Crimea back to its Russian parents. China witnessing the Outlaw US Empire's behavior also saw such a cutoff as a threat to its interests and combined with Russia to develop an alternative. Their efforts were seconded by even more nations as it appears the vaunted "patch" by the EU wasn't worthy of that name.

What follows is OT to a degree. Some will know of the "cartoon" depicting the admitted war crimes of Australian troops in Afghanistan and the subsequent enragement of PM Morrison it caused. Here the computer graphics designer speaks for himself. IMO, more works like his need to be created to expose the millions of crimes NATO and 5-Eye nations have committed with absolute impunity since WW2.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 20:41 utc | 26

Mr. visak

Those very same simple minded-Americans that you mention hate Catholicism & Catholics, Islam & Muslims, and especially hate Iran - Mr. Trump was their man par excellence - the billionaire six-pack whose narcissism was only more pronounced than the narcissism of so many who had voted for him.

In the Middle East, Mr. Trump followed the same policy as his predecessors, trying to make it safe for Israel.

He made pro forma complains about $ 8 trillion spent on that - $ 50 billion was just the cost of Syrian War to the United States - but he made no effort to change it - and his constituency never made that an issue either.

Posted by: fyi | Dec 2 2020 20:41 utc | 27

Mr. karlof1

Yes, they have very thin skins - in US in particular - but are full of righteousness when defending the defamation of the Prophet of Islam in caricatures.

Posted by: fyi | Dec 2 2020 20:47 utc | 28

Biden asking for further negotiations is unfortunately almost certainly a stalling-for-time tactic, even if there exist some sane (with respect to JCPOA) people in his admin. Too many interests opposed, namely petro-states, aipac, neocons, and weapons vendors, and probably even the more enthusiastic anti China heads.

The other problem is Biden can't credibly promise anything with a duration of more than 4 years.

Posted by: ptb | Dec 2 2020 21:01 utc | 29

Iran’s Parliament passed a law on 1st December which gave current JCPOA signatories (EU3, China, Russia), one month time to provide relief from oil and banking sanctions and hand out of Iranian oil money blocked by their governments. This bill were discussed since August 2020 but the assassination of Iranian scientist Dr. Fakhrizadeh was the reason why it got express treatment in the parliament. It was mentioned as part of the Iranian hybrid answer to the assassination, projecting the fact that the time for “Hit and Run” operations by ZioImperialists have passed. The final vote tally show 179 in support, 22 against, 10 did not vote. Until this point, the bill had nothing to do with US, as US is not part of JCPOA anyway.

One day later, 2nd December (today) Guardian Council returned the bill to the parliament asking to change the time window of one month to two months, and instead of “obligating” the Iranian government to suspend U.N. inspections of nuclear facilities and boost uranium enrichment after this two months, “task” the government to above mentioned reactions if no relief is provided. Iranian parliament implemented the changes required by the Guardian Council on the same day. (to avoid a cycle of back and forth between the corridors of the power?)

So, what’s wrong with this? From this point, it’s no more a JCPOA internal issue but US from outside is again indirectly part of the story. In one month version, the current signatories had to deliver relief to keep JCPOA alive. For instance EU3 + China had to free all or part of the Iranian money blocked by their banks or Rosneft had to give back overtaken portions of Iran oil exports, This in turn would break the chain of US unilateral and unlawful sanctions against Iran globally. But now, in two months version, when Biden is in the White House, the agenda will be naturally pushed toward the return of US (which is conditioned to renegotiation) without any pre-delivered relief.

Here something to read before some of MoA audience go berserk against me.

This once again demonstrate that the ruling system in Iran is not a homogeneous entity. Remember Technocrats, Theocrats, Nationalists. One should know friends and enemies of the revolution.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 21:09 utc | 30

fyi @ 22

Of course, the empire knows that the lethality of its economic weapon will wane over time the same way antibiotics lose their edge as indiscriminate and widespread use encourage resistance.

And when presented with the dilemma of what to to with this perishable stockpile of weapons, I believe the word out is to use them or lose them.

Posted by: robin | Dec 2 2020 21:17 utc | 31

@14 powerandpeople (what a strange nick)

So this kabuki of enrichment etc is designed as a circuit-breaker.
All this will be given up, no further missile supply to Houthi, no further missile supply to Lebanon and Syria IF USA/Israel are capable of agreeing to totally remove all sanctions, pay reparations.
Iran can then make other Middle east agreements with Saudi etc to maintain peace in the Gulf.
I think all this (and more, in time) is possible.
Benefits everywhere.

Ehhh, hmmm, could you please explain again the part with “benefits everywhere” in regard to Houthi, Lebanese, Syrians or maybe we make it simple and call them “the rest of Shia population of the ME”.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 21:18 utc | 32

Biden lies as easily as he breathes and says polar opposite things days or hours later. Either because of his nature of being a chronic liar, or because he's forgotten, due to his feeble mind. And Friedman is a useless "journalist", warmonger imperialist, and also a liar.

I think it's very foolish to base any analysis on what those two lying scumbags claim is happening. 100% useless waste of time, imo.

Posted by: Wind Hippo | Dec 2 2020 21:24 utc | 33

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 17 2020 21:31 utc

Biden has said that he will re-instate the nuclear agreement with Iran but with 'amendments'.

Wishful thinking by Biden and his faction, if he get into white house at all. The greatest obstacle for any US president to get back to JCPOA is the general disqualification of US governments to be part of any international agreement.

Obama signed, Trump teared in pieces, Biden signing again (are we in a Kindergarten?), who is going to guarantee that the next republican president (in 4 years?) doesn’t tear it in pieces again or even the to-be president Kemala Harris (in 2 years?) doesn’t trigger the snap back as a friendly pay back gesture to the Zionist Apartheid regime for getting the job as president?

Although Rouhani government has sent strong signals that they are ready for a new round of negotiation, with less then 9 months to the next elections in Iran, almost no chance that the next winner come from technocrat camp, theocracy not ready to support technocratic efforts for new negotiations and finally wide popular resistance to continue the JCPOA even in the current format. It would be more then a wounder to encounter JCPOA 2.0

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 21:26 utc | 34

It is disgusting to see phrases like "...Iran’s malign regional activities, through its proxies in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Yemen" from US politicians and establishment stenographers like Tom Friedman. Iran is IN the damn region, the US - through its proxies in Syria and Yemen and directly in Lebanon and Iraq is the malign actor in the region - not Iran.

The only way forward is for Biden to immediately end all US sanctions on Iran including the idiotic, arrogant third-party sanctions on nations that trade with Iran. Get back in the JCPOA and at least apologize for the unconscionable actions of the Trump Administration in Iran.

Given the Zionist control over the foreign policy blob in Washington, that's about all we can expect.

Posted by: Charles | Dec 2 2020 21:32 utc | 35

@ Framarz | Dec 2 2020 21:09 utc | 30.. i don't think anyone is going to go beserk on you... your link highlights what @ karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 19:43 utc | 21 / 26 addresses.. until an alternative to swift is built, the usa has this window of time to bully other countries like india and etc... at such time as there is an alternative to swift, it will be much harder to keep on with the bullying.. your post @ 34 reiterates what many here at moa also believe.. thanks for your posts and karlof1 posts too... fwiw - karl, your link at 21 is not loading...

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 21:33 utc | 36

@ Charles | Dec 2 2020 21:32 utc | 35... for that to happen would be for a moment of sanity to happen in usa foreign policy.. it ain't gonna happen no matter who is pres..

the usa is on a real downhill slope.. the end of its exceptionalism can't happen soon enough..

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 21:35 utc | 37

Well, my goodness, it's been a long time since we see eye to eye on something with the exception of Covid reality and restrictions which we agree on.

The big pipe dream of follow-on negotiation which also include Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates can than be pushed out to a (much) later date.

How about those radical Zionist butt licking traitor Arabs be pushed out the door altogether?!

Thomas Friedman is against Trump on many things BUT Iran ain't one of those. That's why I keep repeating there is no such thing as a Liberal Zionist. He's a hasbara tool and gatekeeper who can't be trusted when it comes to Palestine and Iran. All of a sudden he's on every news outlet trying to pressure Biden on stupid Trump leverage. He should check his citizenship before he opens his big stached mouth! Who listens to that Zionist biased neolib twit anyway?

F🤬ck him and his Trump leverage which was and really is a pair of zip ties for Biden's hands!

I really hope Biden shuts off the noise from the right and from Zionist idiots in his party like Chuck Schumer & Zco.

Enough! I waited 4 years for Trump's assbackward policy towards Iran to be scrapped altogether. Biden may disregard Iran's timetable, but he better live up to what was originally agreed to or he'll end up getting no concessions on the nuclear issue.

And one more thing: China and Russia shouldn't waver on the original deal! The U.S. will seize on anything less than resolute support for Iran's position. Especially given the acts of war Trump pulled and the fact that Iran lived up to the deal until Ziofascist Trump trashed it; they should not give the U.S. a chance to cheat by moving the goalpost.

We'll see how Mr. Putin handles this; I won't hold my breath. Netanyahu will be on the next flight to Moscow whispering in his ear again about loyalty to the Russian squatters in Palestine.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 2 2020 21:40 utc | 38

Basically Biden will ha e 2 weeks to make up his mind is they are going to implement UNSC 2231 which is binding. Is obvious Trump will do nothing in his remaining 48 days. Iran wants to know US intentions and don’t want this to drag out to become an issue in Iran’s coming June elections. I suppose US Biden and allies will want to drag the issue to make Iran’s election effected by this issue. IMO this would be a smart move by Iran. Iran wants her coming election to be about economy, with full JCPOA in case US restart implementing or without JCPOA if US stays out. It wants Iranians and possible candidates to known before debates starts.
Iranian doesn’t want her election to be influenced or decided outside of Iran in west. I support the parliament that is the reason the One month was extended to two month since they didn’t want to give the Trump a say in this. Iran will not accept any addition to existing agreement nor the SNSC will agree to any further negotiations outside of existing JCPOA

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 2 2020 21:58 utc | 39

Mr. Kooshy

Iranians are not going to get full JCPOA; neither side can go back to it even they so wished.

Since even if US goes back to full JCPOA, there would be no direct foreign investments in Iran nor any private banks will be forthcoming with loans to Iranian entities, be they government-owned or private.

The best the Iranians can expect is to be able to have u-turn dollar transactions so that they can sell their oil and use the funds to buy some other stuff that they need. Americans will get a reduction in the levels and amounts of uranium enrichment but I doubt that Iran will export her uranium in excess of JCPOA abroad.

US has wrecked the Iranian economy and will not hesitate to do so again, if it suites her leaders. Iranian leaders understand this and will not expose their country again.

10-15 years from now, there could be another negotiation between US & Iran - after Iranians have overcome their vulnerabilities.

Posted by: fyi | Dec 2 2020 22:10 utc | 40

karlof1 above

There is only one UKUSAi objective:- Obstruct the unification of the China/Russia/Middle East/Asia trade and economy. Damage that process as much as possible. If that includes keeping troops on the ground in Iraq - the UKUSAi will do that and keep troops in Afghanistan as well, and continue the assault on Syria.

The UKUSAi will do their utmost to undermine Azerbaijan in the coming months and likely all the Stan nations too. The UKUSAi will no longer tolerate a successful OBOR strategy and the entire globe will be hostage to that aggressive intolerance.

The UKUSAi will not stop their forever war - that is why (in the USAi) they had Trump and now have Harris/Biden - there will be no end to it.

Africa is soon to be squeezed further by wars over resources and scams /strategies to impede/force out China.

Perhaps drone and missile technology will leapfrog to the next generation and change the playing field. The 3M22 Tsirkon has revealed that future possibility and I would assume USAi will be incapable of entering discussions re JCPOA without demanding an extension to make a missile 'deal'. That won't be agreed by Iran IMO. The UKUSAi is not agreement capable.

The UKUSAi empire is in shock in seeing how the tables are turning and they wont retreat until outsmarted or defeated. It is just shocking to contemplate the the effectiveness of the UKUSAi state's propaganda and social acceptance of these actions as 'norms' when they are entirely antithetical to human benefit. Very sad and yet a virus is eating out the core and they may just fail yet with any luck. Sad days continue.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 2 2020 22:14 utc | 41

james @36--

Thanks for your reply. I reopened the page using IE then again using Edge and the URL is the same as what I linked. Here it is again, and it works as I just checked during Preview.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 22:15 utc | 42

Thank you, B, much appreciated!

"Rouhani’s government -- severely weakened since outgoing U.S. President Donald Trump walked away from the 2015 nuclear deal"

Wow. It sure feels good to read it. It's so true, but people here at MoA tend to bend this truth. Yes, Rouhani and Zarif are weak. Not only that, they're weaklings, too. To bank the wellbeing and future of the whole country on a single agreement with the US, how insane can you be?

Are there any reliable news about how the latest assassination took place? Boots on the ground, remote-controlled weapons, or an extradition false-flag?

And does anyone know if one could operate the Samson Remote Controlled Weapon Station off the back of an ordinary pickup truck?

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Dec 2 2020 22:23 utc | 43

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 19:26 utc | 19

I fully agree that Biden will be the president on Jan 21 if not dead. I also fully agree that not much can be settled between Iran and US except some minor tactical issues.
And I don’t have no proof or even how and where, if “widespread cheating, ballot stuffing” took place in this recent election. But one thing I can’t digest is, “mail order elections” call it Amazon elections. For life of me I can’t imagine how mail in ballots can be secure, checked, tabulated without verification of voter without ID. I simply could have opened, fill and mail 3 ballots that came to my mail box with who and whatever measures I liked. Nevertheless I am glad to see the confusion and the legitimacy doubt that will remain for next 4 years. DT can and hopefully will go to the history’s shit bin, but he did exactly what I hoped for, he made America illegitimate. The fake image and reputation US had built of herself ( Shinning City on hill) at a tremendous expense and propaganda leveled at world Donald Trump destroyed in 4 years. Good for the world

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 2 2020 22:24 utc | 44

Wishful thinking. Particularly when it relies on Tom Friedman, and an "interview" that doesn't seem to have any actual quotations, even unsourced. Just what you'd expect from the inventor of the "Friedman Unit".

Posted by: groucho | Dec 2 2020 22:28 utc | 45

Posted by: fyi | Dec 2 2020 22:10 utc | 40

FYI, I didn’t say they will or should, I said Iranians are trying to prevent this to be an issue in coming election, this was to limit the timing for Biden to leave or to implement. Iran and US can not come to an strategic understanding for foreseeable future. Tactical reduction of hostilities on specific issues are possibles, but sure not for security of Shia which includes missile and meddling or commonly known in the west as chocolate M&M

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 2 2020 22:32 utc | 46

Mr. Kosshy

Most definitely.

Posted by: fyi | Dec 2 2020 22:34 utc | 47

@ karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 22:15 utc | 42.. thanks same deal.. it doesn't want to load! not sure why.. it brings me to the site, but refuses to load.. i am not sure why! weird..

@ Scotch Bingeington | Dec 2 2020 22:23 utc | 43.. see my link @12 for some speculation on the dynamics around the iranian nuclear scientist event..

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 22:35 utc | 48

Karlof1 your comment on Barr - he has been misreported in the MSM. DOJ hasn't found anything because they havent looked yet.

Posted by: Anon | Dec 2 2020 22:45 utc | 49

BTW, wondering why nobody is talking about or analyzing, what are the internal conditions of US, socially, economically, legitimacy,and mentally, income and job Disparity when Biden starts in January, regardless of unending wars, DT, greed and pandemic have done such a F*ing job to this country that I don’t see any chance of coming back or a non violent resolution in in coming decades.

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 2 2020 22:59 utc | 50

uncle tungsten @41--

Sadly, I agree with your assessment on the Big Picture as the neoliberal Parasites want to continue burning their candle at both ends, but that stub is getting shorter all the time. As I mentioned, I'm very curious about the contents of the Statement of the CSTO Collective Security Council on creating a just and sustainable world order as that will be immediately referred to the SCO, EAEU, BRICS, and together with China to ASEAN. Only after that will it be presented to the G-20. I have my own ideas about its probable contents, but decline to speculate. A related development at the UN today shows NATO-EU remains the enemy and isn't to be trusted about anything, not even something in their interest like Nord Stream-2:

"The behavior of France and Germany at the UN raises questions regarding the feasibility of holding new Normandy Four summits, Russia’s Permanent Representative to the UN Vasily Nebenzya said during an informal meeting of the UN Security Council held in the video format under the Arria Formula, dedicated to the implementation of the Minsk Agreements on Ukraine.

"The meeting is held on Russia’s initiative with the participation of DPR and LPR representatives, while representatives of Ukraine, France and Germany attempted to block the meeting and refused to participate in it.

"'What happened today undermines the role of Berlin and Paris as mediators in resolving the Ukrainian crisis,' Nebenzya said. 'They are more concerned with covering for the Ukrainian government.' 'This raises questions on the feasibility of holding new Normandy Four summits,' he said. 'Without the implementation of agreements reached during them <…> they do not have the added value.'"

Unlike during the Cold War, the majority of the world's nations can easily see the value of China's system versus the implosion of the West's Neoliberalism, which never had many fans within developing nations. Based on UNGA votes, the Outlaw US Empire has little political capital remaining, although its BigLie Media presents a vastly different picture. It's entirely possible the 5-Eyes become islands unto themselves in deciding to detach themselves from global norms and International Law as the century continues.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 23:00 utc | 51

Kooshy @44--

Thanks for your reply! As I reported prior to the election, my state of Oregon has used voting via mail for all elections for two decades and altogether for almost 40 years now. It's very secure and close to impossible to manipulate thanks to its tracking system. There's really no comparison when our system is compared to the paperless voting machines controlled by provably manipulatable proprietary software.

There's a man in California named Brad Friedman who is a tireless advocate for what he calls "Democracy's Gold Standard" with which I completely agree. He runs the The Brad Blog, where he reports about elections and related matters. If you have a genuine interest in this topic, I suggest reading Brad's essays, but I especially suggest reading "The Gold Standard" linked above at minimum.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 23:16 utc | 52

@39 kooshy

I support the parliament that is the reason the One month was extended to two month since they didn’t want to give the Trump a say in this.

In one month option no US president would have a say, in two months option, one Yankee president get a say.
You underestimate the effects of the criminal act of terror against an Iranian scientist on the world public opinion. Iran can enforce an immediate relief now, in two months, ZioImperialist MSM have erased this event from the memories thus Iran’s position to globally break the sanctions, not going to be as strong.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 23:27 utc | 53

Anon @49--

Sorry to pop your delusion balloon, but here's the AP story from which my initial citation was from. Note what AP says Barr said in their preamble to his being quoted:

"Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received". [Bolded for getting through to thick headed people]

In other words, they have indeed been looking. I voted for neither, but it's now quite clear that Biden will be declared the winner and assume the post on 20 January unless he dies. I suggest joining forces with those of us trying to mount resistance to the Duopoly that represses and steals from us both.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 23:28 utc | 54

@48 james

James, as I mentioned in a comment related to the assassination thread, I don’t have any reliable information about what this guy, Thomas Wictor, is smoking, but it must be extraordinary strong stuff.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 23:32 utc | 55

@57 Per/Norge

Du er paa det falske traadet med dette thema.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 23:45 utc | 56

@ Framarz | Dec 2 2020 23:32 utc | 56.. maybe i missed your comment.. it certainly didn't appear after john gilberts shared that video @ 320 of the previous thread.. perhaps someone shared the video earlier in the thread? i thought his logic was pretty good.. not to derail this thread, but if you have something to say about it other then the allusion to drugs, i would be curious.. share them on the other thread.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Dec 3 2020 0:02 utc | 57

Please tell me if I am wrong: US left JCPOA. Can they enter it just like that and in future activate dispute mechanism? Didn’t Zarif said that for US to entering it again Iran and the other parts will decide the requirements?

Posted by: _AR_ | Dec 3 2020 0:05 utc | 58

Wondering why half the comentariat here asure Biden will not take office in full alignement with Pat Lang´s last, in spite of recounts coming out favourable to him and thus conspiracy theory of machine vote counting fraud proved fake?

Well, a coup is in the making by an obscure battalion of military intelligence 305th, nicknamed Kraken...

Retired general asks Trump to declare Martial Law and confiscate Dominion machines.

Former General Thomas McInerney has asserted that China, Russia, Iran and the Democrats are behind the fraud in the USA. The 305th Military Intelligence Battalion (nicknamed Kraken) has long been analyzing and classifying the evidence of the fraud, which will be delivered to the Supreme Court.

It is in this context where the desperate move to assassinate the Iranian scientist fits.
The motive: Israel prevalence as Middle East unique power and AngloAmerican proxy.

Turkey, as I warned on ocassion of the Nagorno-Karabakh war, being configurated as proxy in East Europe, Central Asia and Mediterranan.

Cavusoglu, Foreign Minister, met with his Ukrainian counterpart and affirmed that both countries will strengthen their relations in the defense industry and military cooperation.

Cavusoglu welcomed the Ukrainian idea of creating an international platform on Crimea.

No wonder the wording by Putin and Lavrov at CSTO meeting was most harsh and to the point of reality as usual.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 0:09 utc | 59

@Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2020 23:32 utc | 56

Another conspiracy theory or fake news by the alt-right troop Trumpsters.
The guy promoted by a commenter at The Saker, Bro93, which have passed last 5 years promoting QAnon conspiracy....

I am finding james lately quite alt-right...Winds from Virginia one guess...

We have here at least half Pat Lang´s commentariat lately since the election, the overwhelming tone of the blog and comments act as call effect.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 0:19 utc | 60

Posted by: powerandpeople | Dec 2 2020 18:33 utc

Israel (mainly) wants security from missiles that can obliterate it (it is a small country).

... mainly all the arable land in Syria and Lebanon and mainly all the Palestinians ethnically cleansed as quietly as possible and full control of the gas and oil resources of Lebanon and Syria and political, economic domination of the entire middle east regardless of any lack of a threat and ... you get the picture.

... And when they're done with the middle east they'll notice how China is competing them out of their tech markets ...

Israel wants access to Saudi airspace (as it already has to Azerbaijani airspace) to threaten Iran, because, missiles...

It's got nothing to do with missiles.
It's got everything to do with Iran being a potential competitor in multiple dimensions: political. economic. ideological. technological.

Remove the missile threat and the problem still remains.

All this will be given up, no further missile supply to Houthi,

So Saudi Arabia can happily continue butchering Yemen? You think Iran will be ok with that? You think the Houthi will stand by and allow peace to break out at their expense?

no further missile supply to Lebanon and Syria

Unless the need for these weapons is removed Syria and Lebanon will find the somewhere else and Iran will still be blamed for providing them.

The hatred between israel and Iran is ideological, not based on presence or absence of threats.

If missiles were the issue israel would have long ago made Turkey and Egypt a permanent target like Iran.

IF USA/Israel are capable of agreeing to totally remove all sanctions, pay reparations.

... and give back the Golan and stop bombing Syria and give back the Shabaa farms and conclude a peace agreement with Hizbollah ...

Iran can then make other Middle east agreements with Saudi etc to maintain peace in the Gulf.

... and Sunni and Shia can worship together as one until the coming of the Dajjal and the Mahdi ...

I think all this (and more, in time) is possible.

Benefits everywhere.

And Jew and Muslim can sing khumbahyah forevever after. I WANT whatever it is you smoke, friend!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2020 0:20 utc | 61

@ H.Schmatz | Dec 3 2020 0:19 utc | 64.. jackrabbit is clearly onto you... you've hung yourself with enough rope at this point...

Posted by: james | Dec 3 2020 0:24 utc | 62

@60 james

The video was hinted first by kula @265

Did you know that Dr. Fakhrizadeh like general Soleimani was against JCPOA? When one study the few available records of his administrative-scientific activity, one get the impression of a Ghassem Soleimani in a different field of duty. Now tell me, would you accept the romures of general Ghasem Soleimani defect and leave Iran for ...

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 3 2020 0:36 utc | 63

if only the 2 big boys Russia and China actually back Iran instead of letting it swing in the wind and be squeezed by USA/West/EU things would be fundamentally different.
but NO, the supposedly big "strategist" Putin doesn't say anything and China who is supposedly in negotiations with Iran to sign a 25 years deal stands back while USA/West keep on putting the screws on Iran. And supposedly CHina really needs Iran as a major node on BRI. But all we get is silence from Russia and China. Makes me furious as fuck.
So the conclusion is that either Russia and China don't give a fuck about Iran or they just aren't as smart and don't know what the fuck they are doing.
and NOBODY here mentions that.

Posted by: Hoyeru | Dec 3 2020 0:42 utc | 64

Thank you for your reply, this was my first experience with mail in ballot in my state of California And I thought many ways of possible cheating the system.
Just one day I saw 3 ballots in our mailbox. I could have filled all three with whoever I wanted to vote for without anybody expecting nor I understand how would me signature be verified, against what? My registration card of 1970s. Thanks for the link, as said I didn’t have much experience on this type of voting nor I have read or listened to pro and against arguments.
Nevertheless thank you. Europeans and or US are not going to reimplement the agreement or feel they are under pressure just because they helped Israel kill one of our scientists, that is simplistic view if not childish. As matter of effect they killed him to put Iran under pressure. They simply are seeing if you don’t agree with what we want which is complete sovereignty of Iran we will kill your scientists and deny we did it with genuine crocodile tears. Iran has to continue her strategic aims with least damage to her unity and people and increase the cost on enemies with their own medicine.

Faramarz @54

Look as I wrote above, don’t expect a resolution to Iran and west/US strategic differences in foreseeable future. Iran is now locked in same strategic differences that exist between Russia and west and Gina and west obviously Iran is weaker and more vulnerable. One month would give a veto to trump tthis not for or about trump. Two month is to show Iranians specially the reforme minded north Tehranies that Biden has no intention for a rapprochement . This is to eliminate US direct influence on Iran’s coming election for to negotiate or not to negotiate, this is to kill that debate for coming election. I support the parliament on this since it forces Biden to show his hand which I suspect is a fist of iron under velvet glove like Obama during the elections of 88. The revenge of all Iran martyrs is another account that will be paid in due time. The Shia Iranians I know will never let that go, not for 7 generations. They still are finding and bringing back the Iraq war martyrs and burying them like it was yesterday the were KIA. Iran survived 3 millenniums because she thinks strategically and not hasty and rash.

Posted by: Kooshy | Dec 3 2020 0:48 utc | 65

@kalof1 55 you missed out Barr's qualifier "to date". That means the investigation is ongoing, and I think they can't but fail to find fraud with the masses of evidence pouring out at the state hearings. You need to be more honest rather than imply I am deluded.

Posted by: Anon | Dec 3 2020 0:52 utc | 66

I don't think Iran will agree to trust the USA to uphold any commitment it might make with Iran. ..
Many Americans share similar feelings about the USA ..
its elected officials rarely do what they promise.during campaigns

James at 12 reminds of john gilberts youtube video, I believe its content provides a conspiracy theory about why Trump said Israel did it..<= another theory, involves two privately owned oil companies.. and one investment banking firm. suggesting Fahrizade demise might not be state sponsored ..and it goes further to suggest that the successor in line is a plant to destroy what Fahrizadre accomplished heresay until i get more.

Someone recently admonished me for ignorance about RT PCR cycling!" my experience is one sample cycled a million times will nearly always find what you are looking for.. or said differently set the run numbers to 8 or fewer cycles to find what you are looking for in 1 sample out of a million samples. useful but not conclusive.. How about identifying the procedure used, the equipment and reagents used, and the laboratories that the produced the results reported.

Re; Post by: Per/Norway @ 53. Review"
Review report Corman-Drosten et al. Eurosurveillance 2020"CoVid PCR test stinks"
abstract says "published RT-qPCR protocol for detection and diagnostics of 2019-nCoV and the manuscript suffer from numerous technical and scientific errors, including insufficient primer design, a problematic and insufficient RT-qPCR protocol, and the absence of an accurate test validation." not too mention operator to operator repeatability.

Posted by: snake | Dec 3 2020 1:01 utc | 67

@64 H. Schmatz

Noticed that, but not essential for me. Most of visitors trafficing here not kiddis anymore. I for my part wouldn't post, just continue observing the debate, grabing views about US spesific issues, as I did the last 3-4 years. NK war and it's special meaning for the current geopolitical developments motivated me to take part in discussions, give my input for a while and then step back to observing again.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 3 2020 1:07 utc | 68

Posted by: Josh | Dec 3 2020 0:27 utc | 67

It should be noted that is not some local church group. is a radical far left group linked to Barack Obama.


Try better next time.

Posted by: v | Dec 3 2020 1:27 utc | 69

Israel gets boxed in as Iran issue surges

Posted by: kooshy | Dec 3 2020 1:58 utc | 70

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 3 2020 0:36 utc | 69

Did you know that Dr. Fakhrizadeh like general Soleimani was against JCPOA?


Did you know Dr. Fakhrizadeh got a medal of service from President of Iran for his technical help for JCPOA negotiations?

Posted by: kooshy | Dec 3 2020 2:07 utc | 71

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2020 0:20 utc | 65

“It's got everything to do with Iran being a potential competitor in multiple dimensions: political. economic. ideological. technological.”

Well said, that’s exactly the point, but that is not just Israel all non-shia governments and their western masters have the same goal, they are afraid of Iran’s rise. As they are afraid of Russian rise or Chines. Experience and history says this will not be solved without war or collapse of one side.

Posted by: kooshy | Dec 3 2020 2:19 utc | 72

@JackRabbit #16
I don't see the magic manipulation you stipulate as being very credible regarding Biden. He has a 47 year record of being a very good (stays bought) politician.
Nor am I convinced even a little bit that the media is playing to the plan you note.
The reality is that the Democrats/Pelosi chose not to take the last minute Republican deal because they wanted to be sure that Trump would not possibly get credit for doing so.
And McConnell's play now is the same: the deal put forward is immensely worse than the pre-election one and is clearly intended to allow McConnell to say "I tried" even as the Democrats will struggle to get a deal done even by March or April of next year.
That the blue states and largely liberal urban areas everywhere are suffering disproportionately from the lack of stimulus - that's just a bonus.
I picked up a free SF newspaper today while returning from the grocery store. The top 4 stories:
1) SFMTA - the San Francisco public transportation agency - facing an enormous deficit and will likely have to cut service even more than the present 30% cuts and lay off about 25% of its staff.
2) SF Mayor: Breed calling for even more strict COVID regulations
3) Head of San Francisco public utility commission charged with fraud by the FBI. He is married to the SF City Manager - the top non-elected position in SF
4) SF police get raises

Posted by: c1ue | Dec 3 2020 2:28 utc | 73

Iran ought to demand that Israel become a signatory to NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty). Not that Israel would comply with any international law, but at least it could be a big PR slam (cause some discomfort by helping to focus on the elephant in the room): Israel, did you stop beating your wife?

Posted by: Seer | Dec 3 2020 2:34 utc | 74

Mr. Seer

No one cares about the scenario that you are envisioning.

NPT is dead in any case, Americans killed it.

The so-called West had the opportunity to have a neutral prickly Iran, they decided to risk trying to destroy her once and for all.

Now, as Mr. Kooshy has alluded, they are facing a very very very hostile power in the Near East that stretches from Hind Kush to the Mediterranean.

Posted by: Fyi | Dec 3 2020 2:43 utc | 75

Karlof1 @42 and James @36
I can not open the link either. In fact, I can not open any page from

Maybe it is a Canadian thing? Or just BC? Usually I can figure out links that don't work by looking for the subject in my browser, but not this time.

Is anyone else unable to load it?

Posted by: Lorna MacKay | Dec 3 2020 2:45 utc | 76

So far Biden himself had been somewhat ambivalent about the issue.

Really? You think Biden has anything to do with any policy decisions?

He thought he was running for the Senate, said it was important to beat George W Bush . . . The guy has an advanced case of dementia. LOL Only the best and the brightest make it to the top here in the land of the fee, home if the slave

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 3 2020 2:57 utc | 77

Josh and Per/Norway still not using html tags.

You can also use them for Twitter links.

Don't you dare mess up the format on a 3rd thread on Iran.

Kooshy is right about this:

One month would give a veto to trump tthis not for or about trump. Two month is to show Iranians specially the reforme minded north Tehranies that Biden has no intention for a rapprochement . This is to eliminate US direct influence on Iran’s coming election for to negotiate or not to negotiate, this is to kill that debate for coming election.

Surely Biden will know that if he doesn't settle this deal with Rouhani before the elections and return to the original deal then a conservative will replace Rouhani and no deal will get done.

The JCPOA is the best the U.S. will get. There were opponents in Iran to that deal with the U.S. at the time it was signed, and they are already vindicated by U.S. bad faith demonstrated by Trump scrapping the deal and then proceeding with multiple acts of war against Iran. If Biden does not show good faith, returning to the deal with no pre-conditions, then those opposed to the deal all along will gain a lot of credibility going in to elections.


On another note:

In case people have not heard the latest, rabid Iran hater and Ziofascist Trump protector, Michael Flynn, is urging Trump to declare limited MARTIAL LAW to hold new elections.

This gets crazier by the minute.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 3 2020 3:14 utc | 78

Posted by: Fyi | Dec 3 2020 2:47 utc | 84
“The United States, though her recent economic war, taught Iranians how wean their economy off oil.”

Yes exactly agreed, the same way the Iran, Iraq war which was supported and incentivized by the West thought Iranians how become self-sufficient on military arsenal and asymmetric warfare,and not to expect political support from any state in UN or not,.
IMO, the problem in this line of thinking in west exist ever since Herodotus the westerners never got the “Persians” right, and the reason is, they never came to understand the meaning of Iranians they rather thought is all Persians and about Persia. There is a shared meaning in Iranian and in Iran, that westerners don’t understand. Though in my experience it is not so with chinese or Japanese, they understand the difference.

Posted by: kooshy | Dec 3 2020 3:43 utc | 79

Perimetr | Dec 3 2020 2:57 utc | 85

He thought he was running for the Senate, said it was important to beat George W Bush . . .

His mental health aside, his desire to win is even more suspect.

He insulted voters: "lying dog-faced pony soldier!" ... "You're not black" if you don't vote for him.

And remained silent about important topics like 1) "mostly peaceful" riots, and 2) Trump's lying about the looming pandemic. Biden went silent about Trump's virus lies after Trump supposedly got the disease and then performed a patriotic show after his supposed miracle cure. Trump's 'Captain America' routine and Biden's silence meant that Trump's lying could be memory-holed by a captive media.

So we might well ask: did Biden Trump's eventual win with this gaff?

"We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics."


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 3 2020 3:47 utc | 80

Ms. Circe

The United States cannot get back into JCPOA and Iran will not go back into conformity with its strictures. That deal is done.

A small number of short duration and limited in scope steps, worth about 10 billion dollars a year may still be possible.

Iranians used the murder of the late Major General Soleimani to unshackle themselves strategically from JCPOA.

They have now used the muder of the late Dr. Fakhrizad to further limit access to their nuclear sites.

The post-election situation in the United States is reminiscent of the post-election situation in Iran in 2009.

Posted by: Fyi | Dec 3 2020 3:54 utc | 81

Mr. Kooshy

It is Hubris, 400 years of superiority has gotten into their heads.

Look at the way they are picking a fight with the Russian Federation, it as though they have a death wish.

Posted by: Fyi | Dec 3 2020 3:58 utc | 82

Seer @81,

I agree, demanding the bandit state joins the NPT is a good PR starting point. I notice others are quick to disagree. It's the outcome they disagree with, a PR victory for Iran when Israel whinges and whines as usual. I my opinion Iran should refuse any talks until that basic issue is sorted out. Notice how the goalposts constantly change at the whim of whoever 'leads' the [agreement incapable] USA and their current zionist handlers.

As Iran has discovered, the trouble with making concessions to Anglo/zionists is they always want more concessions, it is a slippery slope. Time is on the side of Iran and the clock is ticking for the ugly bandit state and its diminishing gaggle of captive nations.

Posted by: Paul | Dec 3 2020 4:41 utc | 83

Lorna MacKay @83 & james @36--

Sorry you're internet's being censored by your government. Did you try multiple browsers? Is this site also blocked? This site? This one from China? China's MFA? Russian Government home page? I could provide more, but the above ought to be a good test. What about Russian media like RT or Sputnik? I hope you're not blocked.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2020 4:57 utc | 84

Listen, forget the concept USA 'war with Iran'! It's over. Finished. Out of the question.

Do you think the people of USA want to see ships full of their children at the bottom of a foreign ocean because of Israel? US bases in Middle East in a rubble of concrete and twisted steel?

Do you think Israel (distinct from the current leader) wants the anger and hatred of the USA public on their head?

Do you think Iran has learned nothing from its observations of conflicts in the Middle East and the use of missiles, radar, jamming, drones and all the rest?

Do you really think that Russian and Chinese arms suppliers have left a chance to earn good money now restrictions on Iranian weapons purchases have lifted?

Do you even recall that Pres. Putin refers to Iran as a "strategic ally"?

No, USA no longer has a price-payable military leverage on Iran. Neither has Israel.

And in deeply indebted USA post-COVID, and the restless-youth stuffed Gulf States, domestic politics trump everything. Attend to the people, or lose power.

Thus, this is an unique lever point for peace and trade (they are related).

Luckily, everything is for sale in the Middle East.

And the best deal for everyone is peace.

This is not 'Kumbyah'. This is hard-nosed real politic. Continuing misery and fear is 'an option' now being taken off the table. It won't be tolerated any more.

JPOA is finished. Iran will no longer tolerate its one-sided implementation.

It has an excellent use as a face-saving precursor agreement, to a pretend and meaningless 'strawman' agreement, and that's very good.

The 'strawman' argument is the concept that Iran has, or seeks, nuclear weapons. Bullshit and USA/Israel know it, and have always known it.

Iran, Venezuela, Russia - all are being 'weaned off' oil due to sanctions. They should thank USA. The world is bigger than USA and West Eurasia. Once trade is taken outside settlement via SWIFT, US and Western illegal sanctions can be flushed down the toilet back to the sewer they arose from.

Sauds are also being weaned from oil - moving to renewables and new economic projects much less hydrocarbon based. Carters concept is turning to ash.

Iran, through Houthi, can hit Ridyah. Have hit oil facilities.

But Sauds, even under pressure and guidance, still haven't pulled out of Yemen because they are too arrogant and proud (I mean that kindly). They need a face-saving condition.

And here it is. Pretend 'fear' of Iran nuclear weapons. Which Iran will 'give up', in return for etc...a triumph for all parties.

Yes, Iran is diplomatically advanced, in spite of 'hardliners'. It would certainly have a rapprochement with Saudis - and have made such gesture in the recent past. All it needs is Saud leadership of the right sort. But even the wrong sort is slowly having its eyes opened.

And if Israel recognises Shia and Iranian interests & mends its ways, of course there can be rapprochement.

Sure, hot heads can wreck and destroy. But wise heads in the Middle East are slowly creating a climate where all religions and factions can live in something resembling peace.

And yes, demographics and climate refugees mean Israel will have to comply with Security Council resolutions to leave occupied Syria and Palestine territories.

Like Saud, they are proud and arrogant, but when conditions crowd in on them, they will see it is in their interests to do so.

By 2030, average temperatures on land in the Middle East are predicted to reach very high levels. Problems of access to water, climate refugees and the like will be pressing in.

Who then can afford the luxury of arrogantly and illegally interfering in other countries legitimate business arrangements and social structures?

Posted by: powerandpeople | Dec 3 2020 5:08 utc | 85

Seer @81 & Paul @93--

Iran has demanded Occupied Palestine join NPT on more occasions than I can recall, same as with Apartheid South Africa with the same result. I was privy to a student at the Naval Post-Graduate School's documentation related to a research paper s/he was doing on South Africa's MWD program which was very extensive and was being heavily supported by the Zionists who were showing them how to develop systems they already had thanks to CIA. As ought to be clear to the world, the Law Breakers are demonizing the Law Adherers for decades now, but they continue to get away with their Big Lies and continual spree of crimes. It's unknown how much longer this will persist, but it will eventually end, and its won't be good for the Liars.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2020 5:10 utc | 86

Hoyeru #70

if only the 2 big boys Russia and China actually back Iran instead of letting it swing in the wind and be squeezed by USA/West/EU things would be fundamentally different.
but NO, the supposedly big "strategist" Putin doesn't say anything and China who is supposedly in negotiations with Iran to sign a 25 years deal stands back while USA/West keep on putting the screws on Iran. And supposedly CHina really needs Iran as a major node on BRI. But all we get is silence from Russia and China. Makes me furious as fuck.
So the conclusion is that either Russia and China don't give a fuck about Iran or they just aren't as smart and don't know what the fuck they are doing.
and NOBODY here mentions that.

That might be your conclusion but many here see the tactics as that of aikido or similar. Never give the opponent a fight on their terms. Always manouvre outside of their expectations - have other make unconnected manouvres to distract or confound the opposition. Never respond in a manner that renders confirmation bias such as - "see it WAS the Russians all along" etc.

Keep them guessing.
Keep them in the dark.
Keep them looking stupid in front of their own supporters.
Keep their body bags coming home for no victories.
Keep testing weapons that explode their minds with potential that they don't have.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 5:34 utc | 87

@ Framarz | Dec 3 2020 0:36 utc | 69.. i went and saw what you were referring to... here's the thing.. there is a lot of smoke and mirrors, and i am not talking what type of ganga a person is smoking.. i thought the guy did a fairly good analysis of the event off what he had, regardless of the break with humour using the lee marvin pic.. the part i didn't agree with is the part about ksa intel.. as i said in the other thread, if the kashoggi event at the embassy in istanbul is any indication of ksa, or uae intel sophistication, they have a long way to go.. so while i thought his analysis was good, i didn't agree with his conclusion/s....

@ karlof1 | Dec 3 2020 4:57 utc | 94.. thanks.. all those sites work fine.. it is just the link @ 26 and again @42 that doesn't load... the potential censorship bears watching moving forward though..

Posted by: james | Dec 3 2020 5:52 utc | 88


if only the 2 big boys Russia and China actually back Iran instead of letting it swing in the wind and be squeezed by USA/West/EU things would be fundamentally different.

Don't know about Russia, but China is ambivalent about extending helping hands to ones who're liable to bite that hand. China's eyes and ears in Iran have congealed up a picture that the general population of Iran are actually very much awe-struck by western soft-power, especially the young. They adore things western, like Russians used to back in the early 90's. China has learned hard lessons in Korea, Albania, Vietnam, etc. etc. to not stick its neck out unnecessarily. It is to avoid what they call blank sighted wolves.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 3 2020 6:50 utc | 89

Pretzel attack wrote, "if the democrats fixed the election, they would have already won the senate and gained seats in the house." The flaw with that logic is your assumption that the democrats want to have a supermajority. They don't. They need an excuse not to give their constituents what they want, like universal health care. The elites of both parties hated de-facto faux Republican 3rd party populist Trump for refusing to start new wars, his repeal of NAFTA and rejection of the TPP. Once upon a time Trump had the support of Ross Perot and ran as a Reform Party candidate.

Posted by: Willow | Dec 3 2020 7:54 utc | 90

karlof1 There isn't any reason for corruption in Oregon, as there would be for corruption in North Dakota. Both are strongholds for blue and red respectively. Corruption for voting will occur where it pays off, in swing states. A sudden, oh shit moment in the swing states when those who have the thumb on the scale realise they have to up the ante and produce a shit load of ballots more than they were expecting to pull off this caper. And a shit load of ballots where the faker of ballots only has time to check off sleepy joe and not the rest of his merry men, woman, cis or whatever.

Let the investigation for fraud continue. The truth shall set you free. A proper investigation will only help calm the situation. No corruption in this or any recent US election? Don't make me laugh. What's up for grabs is (at least for now) the biggest cash cow on the planet, the US defense budget and all its wonderful treasures. All fair in love, war and politics.

What should really happen is for a committee to be formed to ultimately put forward recommendations for improving the voting system, from fixing the rigged voting districts, restrict, election funding, a free social media to a voting day that is fair and honest (hint, paper ballot with free access for scruitineers of all parties with the vote on a weekend or paid holiday. Good luck with that.

Posted by: Tom | Dec 3 2020 8:04 utc | 91

Karlof1 @96

as usual I agree with your analysis.

BTW I like your boat, I wish I could show you photos of my little boat. I don't like joining social media groups and exposing myself to the traditional enemies of liberty and free thinking.

I believe that it is invertible that the zionist thrall over the so called 'rules based' zionised captive nations and their weak comprador rulers will end in our time. That is the point of friction for the current ruling clique. As you know Iran is one of the great long lasting original civilisations and will prevail no matter what, unlike the well known artificial 'state' of Kharzaria, as so eloquently put by the blogger xymphora.

Posted by: Paul | Dec 3 2020 8:14 utc | 92

I don't know about corruption in Oregun, but Andrei Martyanov has something to say about Minneapolis that is disturbing. The story is another indicator of the pre-revolutionary conditions ripening in the USAi.

You can be sure the Democrat 'leadership' will be doing nothing about it. The Harris/Biden losership team will just ignore these things as usual.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 3 2020 8:36 utc | 93

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 3 2020 6:50 utc | 89

China is wise not to get involved in other people's disputes. If any one thing has led to our problems here, it is the propensity to attend to everybody's business but our own. George Washington the wannabe Cinncinatus told us that long ago, but I suppose the money was just too much. The Chinese are known to be fond of money too, so let us be a warning for you.

It is very noticable to me that I NEVER hear Iran or China or Russia complain of the lack of support from the others. Only their enemies bring the subject up. Which tells me that they are not expecting anybody else to save them, they intend to do it themselves.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2020 8:55 utc | 94

All this talk about future negotiations from Biden et. al. is predicated on the USA negotiating from a position of strength which it is simply not in. Everybody knows that but they all tacitly agree to talk as if they don't know it. This is the Facist Kabuki Theatre refered to here;

Posted by: Johny Conspiranoid | Dec 3 2020 9:07 utc | 95


love how you keep needling the senile and insale Col Lang in SST. His stooges larry johnson kept plugging insane conspiracy theories in sync with the alt right media propaganda news cycle.. It is obvious the alt right use SST as their disinfo channel , if you saw the commenters there (worse than zerohedge’s trolls)

btw read the recent post by the Col himself about Gina Haspell been wounded or dead , due to the server farm shootout in germany , and obama been arrested in hawaii , and biden under house arrest while Gen Flynn lead a task force of special forces arresting people who cheated against trump.

it just sad watching an ex DIA and ex green beret go insane in his old days.. his Green Beret friend with handle TTG are still sane but he occasionally post unproven anti russian conspiracy once in a while..

Posted by: milomilo | Dec 3 2020 9:19 utc | 96

Arch Bungle @ 62 says It's got nothing to do with missiles.
It's got everything to do with Iran being a potential competitor in multiple dimensions: political. economic. ideological. technological.
Iran is in the same spot Germany was in prior to WWI <=they will not be allowed to benefit from any negotiation.

<=Monopoly powers created from hot thin air by rule of law [banking services, minerals, energy, technology [copyright and patent] give corporations the unburdened part of nation states. These laws, allow to deny anyone any right to produce or provide service to anyone and everyone. Instead of feudal real estates, we now have feudal intangible estates. The feudal nation state system lacks the support of only a few nation states Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, Venezuela, and Africa on the monopoly estate wagon

Posted by: snake | Dec 3 2020 9:37 utc | 97

@71 kooshy

As we all know (including you), the neo-liberal Rouhani government is subject of popular protests because of signing of JCPOA, which instead of delivering relief made fundamental damage to national interests of Iran.
What we are witnessing after the assassination of Dr. Fakhrizadeh is the government supported campaign to present the martyr as one of initiators of JCPOA, even the guy who signed the JCPOA on his own and allegdly those against JCPOA killed him.

IRNA initiated this campaign and soon all Technocrat Main Stream Media jumped on it, not enough with that even Persian speaking Zionist media focused on it ignoring the fact that Fakhrizadeh as the architect of the roadmap for Iranian nuclear research and development had no chance to deny being engaged in the process of JCPOA, at that time a political decision made by a united front of Technocrats and Theocrats. (Parliament + Guardians + Majmeh + ...)

JCPOA stopped or limited all nuclear projects under IRGC supervision, with other words all projects under Fakhrizadeh’s direct administration, presenting him as a supporter of JCPOA is simply naiv.

I come back to this issue in another comment.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 3 2020 10:12 utc | 98

james | Dec 2 2020 21:33 @36

until an alternative to swift is built

The digital yuan is already operational. There's nothing stopping you from getting some on your phone.

Posted by: sarz | Dec 3 2020 10:21 utc | 99

In other words, US will rejoin so that it can impose new sanctions?Why no earth would Iran agree to that!

Posted by: padre | Dec 3 2020 10:39 utc | 100

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