CNN's 'Blame China' Document Leak Shows China Did Nothing Wrong
The Trump administration has tried to blame China for the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.
U.S. agencies have invested some efforts to obtain documents from China that might provide proof for that.
At least some of those documents were now leaked to CNN which has published them as The Wuhan Files.
But the documents do not show any malfeasance from China's side. They do show a health system and bureaucracy under stress while they have trouble to get an outbreak of a previously unknown infectious disease under control.
This is the most incriminating issue CNN could find in the papers:
In a report marked "internal document, please keep confidential," local health authorities in the province of Hubei, where the virus was first detected, list a total of 5,918 newly detected cases on February 10, more than double the official public number of confirmed cases, breaking down the total into a variety of subcategories. This larger figure was never fully revealed at that time, as China's accounting system seemed, in the tumult of the early weeks of the pandemic, to downplay the severity of the outbreak.
...
The Chinese government has steadfastly rejected accusations made by the United States and other Western governments that it deliberately concealed information relating to the virus, maintaining that it has been upfront since the beginning of the outbreak. However, though the documents provide no evidence of a deliberate attempt to obfuscate findings, they do reveal numerous inconsistencies in what authorities believed to be happening and what was revealed to the public.
Further down in the piece it becomes clear that the differences in reporting case numbers and the 'numerous inconsistencies' were based on the use of multiple categories:
On February 10, when China reported 2,478 new confirmed cases nationwide, the documents show Hubei actually circulated a different total of 5,918 newly reported cases. The internal number is divided into subcategories, providing an insight into the full scope of Hubei's diagnosis methodology at the time."Confirmed cases" number 2,345, "clinically diagnosed cases" 1,772, and "suspected cases" 1,796.
So China's central health service reported 2,478 confirmed cases for all of China while Hubei province reported 2,345 confirmed cases. How is that supposed to be a significant difference?
In early February China still had problems to sufficiently test for Covid-19 infections. It took time to confirm new cases. The tests were also not yet reliable. The category 'clinical diagnosed cases' was for those who had tested negative with a still faulty test but showed signs of acute pneumonia - i.e. 'ground-glass opacity' on CT chest scans. After the testing problems were resolved the category was eliminated:
Chinese officials did soon improve the reporting system, placing the "clinically diagnosed" cases into the "confirmed" category by mid-February.
Further down the CNN writers admit that the documents they were given do not show that China did anything wrong:
However, Mertha, the JHU academic, said the mismatch between the higher internal and lower public figures on the February death toll "appeared to be a deception, for unsurprising reasons.""China had an image to protect internationally, and lower-ranking officials had a clear incentive to under-report -- or to show their superiors that they were under-reporting -- to outside eyes," he said.
Conversely, however, the leaked documents also provide something of a defense of China's overall handling of the virus. The reports show that in the early stages of the pandemic, China faced the same problems of accounting, testing, and diagnosis that still haunt many Western democracies even now -- issues compounded by Hubei encountering an entirely new virus.
Similarly, no mention is made by officials of a so-called laboratory leak, or that the virus was man-made, as some critics, including top US officials, have claimed without evidence.
As the Department of Fear snarks:
U.S. Dept. of Fear @FearDept - 16:55 UTC · Dec 1, 2020Documents leaked to CNN reveal that China took weeks to get its shit together and eradicate COVID from its soil.
(Nobody has bothered to leak our situation because it's perfectly clear the whole year has been a shit-show and the worst is yet to come.)
Indeed, China did so much 'wrong' that it no longer has a Covid-19 problem.
There is one interesting detail in the files the CNN was given that might become relevant during the ongoing search for the origin of the epidemic:
Tuesday, December 1, marks one year since the first known patient showed symptoms of the disease in the Hubei provincial capital of Wuhan, according to a key study in the Lancet medical journal.At the same time that the virus is believed to have first emerged, the documents show another health crisis was unfolding: Hubei was dealing with a significant influenza outbreak. It caused cases to rise to 20 times the level recorded the previous year, the documents show, placing enormous levels of additional stress on an already stretched health care system.
The influenza "epidemic," as officials noted in the document, was not only present in Wuhan in December, but was greatest in the neighboring cities of Yichang and Xianning. It remains unclear what impact or connection the influenza spike had on the Covid-19 outbreak.
There is no proof that the very first SARS-CoV-2 infection of a human being has actually taken place in China. SARS-CoV-2 infections have been retroactively found in France and Italy in blood samples that were taken in November 2019 or earlier. The influenza outbreak in Hubei province may have silently reinforced the spreading of SARS-CoV-2 in China. It could explain why Hubei was the first place where a Covid-19 outbreak was noticed while it was spreading silently elsewhere.
The 'blame China' game will continue independent of what the evidence says. But it is becoming harder and harder to argue that the mess most 'western' countries are in was caused by China when it is so obvious that it is caused by the behaviors of our own societies.
Posted by b on December 1, 2020 at 19:26 UTC | Permalink
next page »Wow! Literally 10 seconds for the first troll to show up. How do they do that?
Posted by: visak | Dec 1 2020 19:49 utc | 2
Maybe they were using shit (according to major peer-review study) PCR tests:
https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/
Posted by: j. casey | Dec 1 2020 20:00 utc | 4
Global Times reports a study that indicated COVID's possible origin in India has been removed from its pre-publication platform at The Lancet:
"Analysts said the incident shows how complicated and tricky it is to answer the scientific question of COVID-19 origin-tracing and it is bound to be completed through joint efforts of the international community, as the virus may have existed in multiple places before it was identified and reported....
"Especially when the topic has been politicized and some nations always try to pin the blame for the subsequent epidemic in the world on China, scientists around the world are acknowledging it is a tough task to complete. International collaboration is urged to answer the question. This requires large amounts of data, probably involving various countries, the Beijing-based expert said....
"'More evidence suggests the early existence of the virus in the world before human beings became aware of it, and it points to multiple sources,' he added.
"A study by the National Cancer Institute of Milan found the novel coronavirus in blood samples collected in October 2019, and research led by the University of Barcelona showed the presence of the virus in samples of sewage in Barcelona in March 2019.
"On Monday, the Wall Street Journal also quoted a government study that said COVID-19 was likely in the US in mid-December, about a month before the country reported its first case, and weeks before China reported its first case." [My Emphasis]
IMO, the question, Was COVID-19 a Bioweapon? is now solved in the negative. The response was swift and hard in societies where all lives are valued; in those societies where lives are not valued, the response was predictably slow and not at all urgent. The Outlaw US Empire is the leading nation where lives aren't valued, so it stands to reason it leads the world in the number of deaths and overall societal disruption caused by the government--NOT the virus. Priorities based on values clearly matter. Perhaps CNN might write about the glaring lack of such values within the Outlaw US Empire.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-covid-science-wars1/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-ioannidis-affair-a-tale-of-major-scientific-overreaction/
Posted by: Joe | Dec 1 2020 20:13 utc | 7
To fix the page view:
1) Right-click the offending post
2) Select "Inspect" from the menu
3) A panel (or separate window) will open displaying code
4) Right-click the line in the code that is highlighted
5) Select "Delete element"
6) Close the panel ('X' in upper right of panel, NOT WINDOW) or the separate window
7) Enjoy
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 20:15 utc | 8
https://swprs.org/
Lot of data including contrast of US and Sweden.
Posted by: Joe | Dec 1 2020 20:26 utc | 9
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/539027-never-argue-with-stupid-people-they-will-drag-you-down
Posted by: Maracatu | Dec 1 2020 20:27 utc | 10
William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 20:15 utc | 9
First time I had encountered this screen effect.
Your instructions worked perfectly.
Thanks.
Posted by: vinnieoh | Dec 1 2020 20:28 utc | 11
who screwed the format?? b can you fix this??
@ Per/Norway | Dec 1 2020 19:49 utc | 3... hey asshole.. fuck off if you don't respect moa or b...
here is my thing on the topic at hand... now we have propaganda wars.. the ongoing issue of bio weapons hasn't been solved..
how much of this is a distraction from an important conversation on who is doing shit in medical labs that the world needs to put a stop to?
those bioweapon labs in georgia are a case in point.. why are they still allowed to operate? meanwhile this cheap propaganda crap is redundant..
all one has to do is see what the usa did to korea in the 50's to know how fucked in the head the usa is.. not a lot has changed..
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 20:35 utc | 12
William Gruff #9
YAY! beers are on me.
Be careful with that Norwegian axe Per ;)
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 1 2020 20:42 utc | 14
Thank you Mr. Gruff !
That cured the page.
And Ali coffee cures Gruff.
https://ublogg.no/content/uploads/2016/05/Ali-kaffe-kurerer-gruff-700x622.jpg
Posted by: Trond | Dec 1 2020 20:45 utc | 15
Here's a twitter thread on the China-Covid subject.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 1 2020 20:47 utc | 16
B you need to clean your comment section of the denier trolls.
Posted by: Cesare | Dec 1 2020 20:54 utc | 17
yeah.. thanks william @ 9... that works... that idiot gives a bad name to norway...
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 20:56 utc | 18
Today's covid denialists are tomorrow's openly eugenicist "these disabled people are a drain on society"
Literally. 13 years after the Spanish flu, the very first people the nazis targeted were disabled people.
Posted by: Maracatu | Dec 1 2020 20:56 utc | 19
It should also be noted that on January 11, 2020 the nCoV gene sequence was published (by China) in draft form to be used by anyone/everyone worldwide. This only proves that China did not withhold this critical information, not that others might have, had the outbreak first occurred on their soil.
One wonders though how quickly say the US would have done so if first occurred here. Would our motley crew of health profiteers first have rushed off to the patent office?
Posted by: vinnieoh | Dec 1 2020 21:05 utc | 20
james 13
excellent comment. The issue of bioweapons has NOT been solved. (Nor have chemtrails).
Posted by: Kristan hinton | Dec 1 2020 21:38 utc | 22
@Wm Gruff
Thanks for the tip. Worked beautifully on a MacBook (after I looked up the mac-equivalent for “double click,” which is “Control + click trackpad”).
Posted by: Jay-Ottawa | Dec 1 2020 21:45 utc | 23
Is it really beyond the scope that perhaps an authoritarian government that is actively participating in genocide could be covering up something?
To state they did "nothing wrong," is quite an absolute. CNN? Dept of Fear? Cmon...
Covid is real and should be taken seriously. But their seems to be some disconnect on the left.
Why can't Covid be taken seriously and the suspicion that China could be culpable in some way maintained?
The Chinese were doing testing on coronaviruses in Wuhan. Perhaps it is a coincidence, but I will not be the first in line to trust the Chinese government
Posted by: WC | Dec 1 2020 21:54 utc | 24
@13 James
here is my thing on the topic at hand... now we have propaganda wars.. the ongoing issue of bio weapons hasn't been solved..
Actually it has been solved. The country doing the vast majority of biological weapons research is the US. The US has now discovered that if a biological weapon gets lose the US will be wiped out first because well "'merica land of the free" (and stupid).
Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Dec 1 2020 21:55 utc | 25
Bioweapons as an issue hasn't been solved, but COVID-19 as being a bioweapon is solved in the negative--unless--someone can link its emergence to a proven hypothesis that includes the Davos Parasites plan for a "Great Reset," as that would provide a motive. IMO, Parasites like Klaus Schwab must be treated like the viruses they are. Want to know the real reason so many anti-vaxxers exist within the Outlaw US Empire? None of them have any trust in government and its various arms. And who can blame them when it's very clear that the federal government promotes death, not life, and has for generations--the last feeble attempt to uplift people was LBJ's very sad War on Poverty that failed as soon as it got started.
"The time has come for a ‘great debate’ to discuss the immensely transformative ideas that Mr. Schwab and his ilk hope to foist upon the entire planet. They need reminded of democratic principles and that before any ‘great reset’ can happen people from all backgrounds – not just the 1 percent – must participate in the conversation. The fact that they refuse to engage society as they lay down their blueprint for a new future should provide a very big hint as to where their plans will ultimately take us. Hint: nowhere good." [My Emphasis]
Gruff's solution works but must be repeated after every update of the page, as after making a comment as I just did.
@ Kristan hinton | Dec 1 2020 21:38 utc | 25.. thanks.. it really needs to be addressed as a couple of the comments here in the thread attest to...
@ WC | Dec 1 2020 21:54 utc | 28.. as i said @13, until a greater focus and concern on just what these bioweapons labs are up to is made, we are going around in circles accusing others that we are equally or more guilty of... whether it is china or the usa doing this - the fact is the whole idea of bioweapons has to be treated much like nuclear weapons and a global answer has to be found for controlling, or even better getting rid of this dept of war agenda... i will not trust any gov't that is pursuing tis path in using bioweapons regardless of the country of origin..
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 22:01 utc | 29
@ BraveNewWorld | Dec 1 2020 21:55 utc | 29.. thanks.. just seeing your comment now.. that is basically my view, but i haven't looked into it aggressively..
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 22:02 utc | 30
Sid Victor Cattoni @26--
A very good argumentative hypothesis. I thank you for it. It appears the existence of a CoV-A would need to be proven for any further merit. Trump's behavior also favors your hypothesis as does Schwab's. The governments in question are know to have previously attacked their own populaces without suffering any consequences. If it is a weak bioweapon, would the attacked nations--China, Iran, Russia--admit it or keep it secret, and why or why not?
Again, thanks for your comment. I hope you'll provide others.
@james | Dec 1 2020 22:01 utc | 33
Agreed. Call me naive, but i do trust the professional class concerning epidemiology research in the US than in China,
do to the fact that i ideologically think that professional structures tend to maintain themselves much better in
democracies than authoritarian structures.
But to the point, to think that we have the whole story on how covid was perpetuated is ridiculous. Do i think
the Chinese were nefarious? No, I actually dont. Do i think they were culpable of incompetence? I do
But of course we dont have all the information, especially concerning bioweapons. Fauci told us to not wear masks
in March to preserve PPE for healthcare workers. But instead of saying that, he said masks are not very effective.
Thats our baseline.
So of course were not getting the truth concerning this stuff. I'm certainly not trusting CNN or
the chinese govt as a viable sources
Posted by: WC | Dec 1 2020 22:27 utc | 32
So,China's Chang'e-5 successfully lands on moon to collect samples. All the political forces of the West then walk into a bar:
The leftist says: of course it successfully landed on the Moon, if it didn't, totalitarian dictator Xi Jinping would've shot the scientists' families!
The nazifascist says: of course it successfully landed on the Moon, the Han are more than 1 billion strong; if we whites procreate more, we'll achieve the same results!
The far-rightist says: of course it successfully landed on the Moon! China is the most open, the freest nation in the world!
The Trotskyist says: of course it successfully landed on the Moon, but China is neoliberal, therefore it was a feat of neoliberalism, not socialism!
The rightist says: it didn't happen! It's all fake! It's all communist propaganda!
Meanwhile, China is doing something not done since the late 1970s; something that all of the above can't comprehend - let alone understand - anymore.
--//--
There is no proof that the very first SARS-CoV-2 infection of a human being has actually taken place in China. SARS-CoV-2 infections have been retroactively found in France and Italy in blood samples that were taken in November 2019 or earlier. The influenza outbreak in Hubei province may have silently reinforced the spreading of SARS-CoV-2 in China. It could explain why Hubei was the first place where a Covid-19 outbreak was noticed while it was spreading silently elsewhere.
Also, apparently, in the USA:
CDC study: COVID-19 infected people in U.S. in mid-December 2019
Expanding on
Sid Victor Cattoni @Dec1 21:41 #26
That's an interesting thesis and makes some sense, though its not easy to prove.
However, there's also a number of strange coincidences that should be considered along with your list:
- ARAMACO's IPO - timed just right;
- US Economy peaking just as the pandemic struck (Trump's tax cuts had run their course) - the pandemic allowed a bailout of Wall Street (facing tens of billions in bad loans) and Boeing (near bankruptcy due to 737MAX debacle);
- Trump's decision to strike a partial trade deal with the Chinese just before the pandemic was recognized. Trump had said he wouldn't do a partial deal.
- Trump Administration reliance on vaccines along with DARPA funding of mRNA bio-tech mean US public are guinea-pigs for this new tech;
The Chinese are reportedly having trouble meeting the terms of that deal.
Note: Not meant to be a complete list.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 1 2020 22:49 utc | 34
If per/norway seeks to deliberately wreck the forum as he has done here, ban the fucker, it's not as if he ever adds anything original or useful.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 1 2020 23:07 utc | 35
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 20:15 utc | 9
Thanks, but it didn't work. The only thing that happens is the little post number (link) at the end disappears. Page stays f*cked up. I tried it with the first post as well as Per/Norway's - not sure which is the offending post?
Posted by: _K_C_ | Dec 1 2020 23:10 utc | 36
Meanwhile, we keep poisoning ourselves thanks to the government WC @36 trusts so much: "Tests Reveal Toxic 'Forever Chemicals' in Aerial Pesticide Showered Over Millions of Acres in US."
Sadly, this isn't a new development. A book I've suggested on many occasions, Our Stolen Future, published almost 25 years ago was the Silent Spring for endocrine disrupters and carcinogenic compounds present everywhere in our environment and doing great damage. The Neoliberal hollowing out of the already weak regulatory agencies has greatly compounded the problem as nothing today's EPA says can be believed, a fact revealed in the article. What the book's authors predicted is happening--continual rise in birth defects, especially those impacting behavior and learning abilities; increased masculinization and feminization of females and males, respectively, which has fed the transgender crisis; and the continuing drop in male sperm counts within all societies since the pollution knows no borders, which is causing the decline in fertility rates.
How can a society claim to be free when all of its members are poisoned to varying degrees!?
Damn! OK, so Gruff's instructions require a bit of clarification. If you're going to "inspect" the post by using the hyperlink number at the end (for example my previous one was "40"), you'll need to right click the element JUST ABOVE the highlighted segment that shows up in the HTML viewer pane and delete THAT element.
Thanks, regardless. Man that was annoying.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Dec 1 2020 23:13 utc | 38
On December 1, 2020, the ex-Pfizer head of respiratory research Dr. Michael Yeadon and the lung specialist and former head of the public health department Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg filed an application with the EMA, the European Medicine Agency responsible for EU-wide drug approval, for the immediate suspension of all SARS CoV 2 vaccine studies, in particular the BioNtech/Pfizer study on BNT162b (EudraCT number 2020-002641-42).
Dr. Wodarg and Dr. Yeadon demand that the studies – for the protection of the life and health of the volunteers – should not be continued until a study design is available that is suitable to address the significant safety concerns expressed by an increasing number of renowned scientists against the vaccine and the study design.
On the one hand, the petitioners demand that, due to the known lack of accuracy of the PCR test in a serious study, a so-called Sanger sequencing must be used. This is the only way to make reliable statements on the effectiveness of a vaccine against Covid-19. On the basis of the many different PCR tests of highly varying quality, neither the risk of disease nor a possible vaccine benefit can be determined with the necessary certainty, which is why testing the vaccine on humans is unethical per se.
Furthermore, they demand that it must be excluded, e.g. by means of animal experiments, that risks already known from previous studies, which partly originate from the nature of the corona viruses, can be realized. The concerns are directed in particular to the following points:
a) The formation of so-called “non-neutralizing antibodies” can lead to an exaggerated immune reaction, especially when the test person is confronted with the real, “wild” virus after vaccination. This so-called antibody-dependent amplification, ADE, has long been known from experiments with corona vaccines in cats, for example. In the course of these studies all cats that initially tolerated the vaccination well died after catching the wild virus.
b) The vaccinations are expected to produce antibodies against spike proteins of SARS-CoV-2. However, spike proteins also contain syncytin-homologous proteins, which are essential for the formation of the placenta in mammals such as humans. It must be absolutely ruled out that a vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 could trigger an immune reaction against syncytin-1, as otherwise infertility of indefinite duration could result in vaccinated women.
c) The mRNA vaccines from BioNTech/Pfizer contain polyethylene glycol (PEG). 70% of people develop antibodies against this substance – this means that many people can develop allergic, potentially fatal reactions to the vaccination.
d) The much too short duration of the study does not allow a realistic estimation of the late effects. As in the narcolepsy cases after the swine flu vaccination, millions of healthy people would be exposed to an unacceptable risk if an emergency approval were to be granted and the possibility of observing the late effects of the vaccination were to follow. Nevertheless, BioNTech/Pfizer apparently submitted an application for emergency approval on December 1, 2020.
CALL FOR HELP: Dr. Wodarg and Dr. Yeadon ask as many EU citizens as possible to co-sign their petition by sending the e-mail prepared here to the EMA.
Posted by: js | Dec 1 2020 23:22 utc | 39
It would have looked worse if they left the dates out even the U.S. altered official numbers here and there but by Feb 10, the cat was out of the bag by then Trump's vaunted travel ban was already in place. By Jan 24, WHO had already reported human-to-human transmission. So yeah, had CNN just reported the revised numbers and not given any dates they could have made it look worse. Rats, they should have run it by the U.S. State Dept for editing before publishing this story.
Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Dec 1 2020 23:55 utc | 41
CNN are a bunch of wakers. Why does anyone even mention them anymore?
Anything CNN related should be redirected to /dev/null.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2020 0:06 utc | 42
'Blame China' Document Leak Shows That China Did Nothing Wrong
I think it would be fairer to say that the document cite is poor evidence, not an exoneration of China.
I am one of those that tend to blame incompetence/laziness/selfishness as the initiating event in disasters.
Consequently, even though I am one of those "nut-jobs" that think it came from a lab, I find it far more likely it escaped through the aforementioned.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 2 2020 0:09 utc | 43
karlof1 | Dec 1 2020 23:10 utc | 41
Correct. We share the same disregard for corporate, warmongering neoliberalism
But to suggest that makes authoritarian China more legitimate is disingenuous at best.
Or we could asks the the comrades of xinjiang their thoughts on the government.
Is it a crime that I can’t swim in the river outside my house because of pollution?
Of course
But becoming a China apologist isn’t the answer.
Especially with their response to the virus.
@vk 47
Well done
Posted by: WC | Dec 2 2020 0:22 utc | 44
Thanks Gruff, I've tried everything except standing on my head. It looks like sabotage to me. Could it be the 77th Brigade et al?
I think the offender should be banned.
This subject is a sore point for the usual suspects.
Posted by: Paul | Dec 2 2020 0:27 utc | 45
From WSJ today: Covid-19 Likely in U.S. in Mid-December 2019, CDC Scientists Report . New analysis of blood donations finds virus was present on West Coast earlier than previously believed
"The scientists based their study on blood samples that the American Red Cross collected between Dec. 13 and Jan. 17 and later sent to the CDC for testing to see if any had antibodies to the new coronavirus, which is named SARS-CoV-2.
In analyzing the blood samples, the CDC scientists found antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon and Washington state collected between Dec. 13 and Dec. 16 ".
Posted by: lulu | Dec 2 2020 1:00 utc | 46
However, Mertha, the JHU academic, said the mismatch between the higher internal and lower public figures on the February death toll "appeared to be a deception, for unsurprising reasons.""China had an image to protect internationally, and lower-ranking officials had a clear incentive to under-report -- or to show their superiors that they were under-reporting -- to outside eyes," he said.
Typical Orientalist BS from this Mertha of JHU. Here on Feb. 1 on MOA, I posted Huanggang takes disciplinary action against 337 officials for slacking off from their duty in combating the nCoV , incl. 6 heads of local government departments/agencies have been removed from their positions.
Since Wuhan lockdown on Jan.23rd and onward, both official media and social media had been encouraging the local officials to tell the truth so as to get the much needed help, such as PPE, doctors and nurses from the other provinces and cities, financial resources from central government, there was absolutely NO motivation for any local low ranking officials to hide the truth, for it would only killed their career and enrage the locals, which could cause huge social unrest.
Posted by: lulu | Dec 2 2020 1:38 utc | 47
@52 Josh (Dec 2 2020 0:48 utc)
This is actually an article about CNN. That's why CNN is mentioned, cited and quoted. b often does this deconstruction of mainstream media - it's a feature not a bug. If you can't stand the content, treat it like a bus - there will be another one along soon.
@48 WC (Dec 2 2020 0:22 utc)
I advise you to lurk here more through some of the discussions about China. You don't know China, nor its system, nor its response to the virus, in any accurate way. A lot of the mainstream propaganda is showing in your words. That's a friendly tip.
Posted by: Grieved | Dec 2 2020 1:47 utc | 48
CNN? Big friend of .cn or CCP China. Win win for Anglo and CCP billionaires like Jeff Bezos or Ma Huateng.
Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2020 2:27 utc | 49
Thanks very much, William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 20:15 utc | 9
Once I figured out that I had to highlight the entire comment
before right clicking, and not just the comment number,
your method worked superbly.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 2 2020 2:36 utc | 50
US 'Soft power', or ideological dominance has been evaporating rapidly since 2003. There wasn't much left
and the extraordinary ineptitude that it has shown in the face of the pandemic has used up the little that was left.
The US response to Covid, born of its contempt for human life and its obsession with profits and capitalism, has
demonstrated to the world that what you see-genocide, racism, injustice and bullying- is all that the US has to offer
the world. Young people find it increasingly difficult to understand why their grandparents, even parents, held the
United States in such awe.
When Covid passes-and there will be no thanks to the imperialist powers for it doing so- the world will be left with
an image of America, refusing to put on a mask, blaming everyone and everything for its problems and ranting, on a pile
of fresh coffins that nothing happened: "It was all a hoax" "People too lazy to work, wanting handouts" "Just another 'flu..."
Posted by: bevin | Dec 2 2020 2:45 utc | 51
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2020 0:06 utc | 46
Or you can re-direct to CNN (cat /dev/null > CNN), which is probable more useful.
Posted by: One Too Many | Dec 2 2020 3:12 utc | 52
Tencent, a privately owned company founded in 1998 by Ma Huateng, current deputy to the Fifth Shenzhen Municipal People’s Congress and servant of the 12thNational People’s Congress; a politician through and through.
Tencent has for the last decade been buying stock in many privately owned western media companies and has become more well known recently with heavy criticism alleging Tencent used their finances to influence western free speech and censor any criticism regarding the CCP or any of its worrying domestic policies.
https://hccegalitarian.com/6942/commentary/tencent-we-have-a-problem/
Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2020 3:47 utc | 53
A Chinese domestic example: Chinese friends started asking on WeChat what the event was? Why were people gathering? Where was it? That such questions were coming from young professionals here shows the extent to which knowledge of Tiananmen 1989 has been made to disappear in China.
I answered a few of them, rather cryptically, then suddenly I was locked out of WeChat. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-48552907
Posted by: Antonym | Dec 2 2020 4:05 utc | 54
Sid Victor Cattoni @ 26 -- Thank you for a plausible scenario.
When Wuhan first came into the headlines, I said to myself that
if this was a biological attack, I would release several strains, the
better to confuse the enemy. I factored in the evil in the heart
of China's enemy, but did not factor in a blowback for the West.
You may have "back-solved" your way into a very dark place.....
But brilliant 'join-the-dots' thinking.
Posted by: kiwiklown | Dec 2 2020 6:09 utc | 55
Posted by: lulu | Dec 2 2020 1:00 utc | 53 -- "In analyzing
the blood samples, the CDC scientists found antibodies in
39 samples from California, Oregon and Washington state
collected between Dec. 13 and Dec. 16 ".
That is a finding that demands further investigation to get
at truth -- not of who started what, or who said what, for,
without truth, we (the world, 7 billion of us) cannot advance
to the next step -- how to stop, cure, prevent this virus.
Posted by: kiwiklown | Dec 2 2020 6:40 utc | 56
karlof1 @ 41 -- "How can a society claim to be free when
all of its members are poisoned to varying degrees!?"
How can a society claim to be free when burning down
other people's shops, sucker-punching old ladies,
is an exercise in "free speech"?
Posted by: kiwiklown | Dec 2 2020 6:47 utc | 57
@ kiwiklown # 63 about Covid strains
Below is the text from a Xinhuanet posting
"
German virologist Alexander Kekule said on Thursday on a local television show that
the coronavirus spreading over the world is not from Wuhan. At the Markus Lenz program
aired on Nov. 26 by German public broadcaster ZDF, Kekule said that the virus circulating
around the world it is called "G" variant, which has changed its gene, and now it is highly
possibly more contagious than the Wuhan variant.
"
IMO, there is still way to much heat and not enough light about Covid background and origin.
Recall: the virus that causes Covid-19 is officially designated SARS-CoV-2.
The quote below was sent to me in an email from another commenter at MoA who has not add their perspective yet
but I will share this bit
"
There is ever more evidence and admittance that the virus came out of a lab, but it is always attributed to a
lab in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. What is NEVER mentioned is that this was not (still is not?) a government
lab but a private research institute run in partnership with EcoHealth in New York, which was funding it with funds
obtained from Fauci's National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases. The gain-of-function research they
were carrying on was being directed by Fauci, and the nerve center of everything was/is Fort Detrick (which was set up
in 1942 and is now huge, employing over 700 persons, all military, all top secret, and has spawned several dozen other
such labs -- but, of course, the United States does NOT have a germ warfare program under way, only incidental "defensive"
research, essential to national security).
"
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2020 6:48 utc | 58
WC #28
The Chinese were doing testing on coronaviruses in Wuhan. Perhaps it is a coincidence, but I will not be the first in line to trust the Chinese government
EVERYONE has been testing coronaviruses with considerable effort since the original global outbreak a decade or more ago. Don't trust any government but don't lose your critical faculties either.
It is perfectly clear that there are some nations that have malice as their prime motivator and China does not figure high on that list, if at all.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 2 2020 7:04 utc | 59
Thank you for a good post b and especially getting some balance as to 'responsibility'. It will be interesting to hear if the Harris/Biden administration has anything sane to say. Somehow I doubt it.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 2 2020 7:42 utc | 60
Jay-Ottawa 27
..the mac-equivalent for “double click,” which is “Control + click trackpad”
Two hands to do the job, gotta love Jony Ives take on interaction design.
Posted by: DeQuincey | Dec 2 2020 7:45 utc | 61
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2020 6:48 utc | 66 --
This Fauci boy doeth talketh too mucheth, revealing more than
he hides. Like a schoolboy hauled into the school principal's office,
he does not stop talking, making explanations, pointing fingers,
issuing commands, reversing his positions, etc.
Sometimes, that is a tell.
The streetwise types will comfortably guess that:
-- the viruses (plural) came from a lab;
-- the viruses were in the wild long before Wuhan;
-- viruses can 'escape', intentionally or not;
-- viruses can travel in planes (in chilled containers);
-- viruses can be 'exported' on frozen food packaging;
Should we be nice people who do not 'judge' others until ALL
the evidence is in? or should we be those streetwise who can
guesstimate probalilities and plausibilities from incomplete
information? Should we sit silent with mouths agape because
trolls tell us there is no proof? or should we take reasoned
measures commensurate with perceived risks?
Thanks for provoking some thinking.
Posted by: kiwiklown | Dec 2 2020 8:58 utc | 62
From (now distant) memory there were also some reclassification's going on to better enable people to access China's government health system services. Bureaucratic convenience in the heat of the event cynically twisted to imply deceit.
Posted by: imo | Dec 2 2020 9:32 utc | 63
Antonym @53: "Tencent used their finances to influence western free speech..."
Thank you for the excellent news! This is precisely how "Free Press™" in capitalism has always worked. Those with the capital are free to press their narratives! It is nice to see that the Chinese have gotten over their squeamishness over how unseemly the proper use of the "Free Press™" is and started to use western mass media the way it has always been intended.
You don't think Jeff Bezos turned the Washington Post into his personal blog to support objectivity in the media, do you? You don't think Rupert Murdoch got his grubby paws on the Wall Street Journal to keep its reporting clean, do you? You don't really imagine that Zionists run the New York Times to make sure the little people have access to information untainted by jingoism and Zionist hysteria, do you?
The Chinese are just playing by YOUR rules. You just don't like it because they are winning, even by your own rules. This is only possible because China is now the dominant world economic power. They are beginning to flex muscles that they didn't even know they had.
Instead of being butthurt over this there are two options available to you:
- Militarily attack China, though that won't get you far because they'll nuke your ass into glass if they have to.
- Organize a socialist revolution in your own country to tame your own domestic capitalists so that you can grow your economy like the Chinese have been doing.
You know what kind of mass media the Chinese cannot buy and control? The same kind that capitalists from any country cannot buy and control: publicly owned media. You want to free (as in liberate) your mass media then put it under public ownership and control.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2020 10:51 utc | 64
There are times in history when great shifts in power are in process that defining events occur. Even though history doesn't work in such a metaphysical fashion, these events tend to amass symbolic significance that encapsulates and defines the larger changes taking place in the world. Yesterday gave us one such moment.
Yesterday China's most ambitious and complex space exploration mission to date, Change'5, successfully landed a probe on the Moon for a sample return effort.
Yesterday America's largest and most iconic telescope, located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, collapsed and was utterly demolished by that collapse.
There is no supernatural force in the universe trying to give humanity a message with these kinds of events. These events occur simply because the American empire is declining while the Chinese civilizational state is ascending. America will suffer increasing failures and setbacks while China will enjoy more successes. There is no metaphysical connection between China's successes and America's failures, and there is no mystical significance when they coincide; nevertheless, we humans will naturally assign quite a bit of symbolic meaning to these events. The symbolism to be found in yesterday's coincidence of events is unmistakable. The US' era of scientific preeminence is passing into history and China's is beginning.
That is sad, but at the same time tremendously exciting.
One thing to expect from this, however, is that the Americans who are prone to delusion (mostly the middle class and elites) will retreat further into delusion in reaction to the obvious symbolism to be seen in this coincidence. They are the ones responsible for the content fed to the public by the mass media, so expect western mass media to respond by becoming even more delusional and divorced from reality than even the piece dissected by our host above. There is nowhere else for them to go but further into delusion.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2020 11:42 utc | 65
China makes vaccines world, US does it selfishly
Like I've been telling you, if you're a First Worlder and have a problem with your government, then criticize your government and nothing else. Stop behaving as if your own failed nation's problems are the world's problems - they're not.
China stopped all domestic flights while allowing international flights to continue. I watched this in real time online when it happened. How is that not "wrong?"
Posted by: Rick | Dec 2 2020 12:47 utc | 67
@ Posted by: Rick | Dec 2 2020 12:47 utc | 67
Source?
Even if true, the other nations had all the power and autonomy to close their flights from China. They didn't.
Like I said: stop projecting the failures of your government onto the rest of the world. You just live in a fucked up country, accept it.
Why wouldn't China support investigation on Coronavirus origins by opening up their Wuhan lab to investigators?
Because they know how the game is played after watching how U.S. funded NGO's and U.S. bullied / corrupted humanitarian and UN organizations operate when investigating human rights and the recent OPCW investigations in Syria.
1. Info would leak out, drip, drip, drip insinuating that it originated there OR ... 2. Info would leak out about how it was some type of bio-weapons facility.
We are doing that now but if we had inspectors actually in the lab then our lies would be more convincing.
[queue up chorus of 'why don't we suspect that the evil, totalitarian commies would do this]
My answer: I'm certain China does some bad things, all countries lie but the problem is that I cannot take my own govt's word for it anymore. I'm not playing the game of person X (Saddam Hussein) is evil, therefore every accusation them is true.
Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Dec 2 2020 12:54 utc | 69
WC @ 24 "an authoritarian government that is actively participating in genocide could be covering up something?"
What about the British, French and USA governments <=is not authoritarian. <=everything those governments do is in secret, everyone who works for those governments is held to the strictest standard of secrecy, and none of the govern deplorables have sufficient vote or say power to hold any of the bastards that run these governments and their bureaucracies and military and contractors accountable? IMO, authoritarian is a relative; it measures deplorable resistance to authoritative manipulation, usurpations and abuse. Nothing else.
karlof1 @ 27 points out that blueprints and agendas are hidden: use of biology in food, clothing, products and weapons are not public media debated topics. What about British, French and USA organizations that governed the deplorable masses <=is not authoritarian?
of the nine layers of social and political control only two are public.
The control stack (layers) describes how private wealth controls the use of public power.
private layer 1:global nation state franchisor sets rules; establishes local nation state goals
_______Here are bankers and their quasi governmental bureaucracies, NGOs, established
_______functioning national governments in interactive cooperation with the needs of the
_______global corporations listed the major market and exchanges.
Private Layer 2: oligarch <= national (wall street beneficiaries who use their wealth to conform
_______national outcome consistent with global powers). The nation (i. e. local banking
_______and monopoly powered corporations control access by the deplorable governed to
_______opportunity.. (opportunity is a privilege open only to a few) Officer vs enlisted.
_______pseudo elected presidents. Also the road and bridge building, trucks, ships, and
_______plane contractors and transport providers..they have the privilege of license,
_______access to money, and qualification to do business with government.
Private Layer 3: the copyright and patent monopoly powers (90% of the Assets of market traded
_______corporations are monopoly powers (as in intangible assets. relatively new, this layer
_______encompasses the legal privilege to privately own all technology and is
_______at the heart of the modern feudal system. 5g. driverless vehicles, space travel
Private Layer 4: the think tank and other private organizations the bureaucracies regulate, fund
_______and direct. Millions even $billions in private money flows and is matched by
_______government funding. Its is where the secret services, home land scammers and
_______university system bureaucracy resides.
public layer 5: the elected 527 person government that regulate the members of the public
Private Layer 6: Intergovernmental Bureaucracies limit and direct elected power to global goals.
_______this is the huge government bought and paid for bureaucracy.
public layer 7: the 340,000,000 members of the highly public.
Private layer 8: Stimulus restrain economic system control
Private layer 9: media addresses diversity via content provider diversity used to control of narrative, limit
_______information visible to target groups and keep the highly disparate minds of the governed deplorables
_______ individually_pacified. (content providers have access to substantial funding, many proven techniques. to science ; which _______enables CPs to coordinate psychology with propaganda; to maintain crowd, mind, political and thought control (CMPT) _______control. Layer delivers massive financial support to the media, in that every market visible corporation contributes
_______$ trillions in yearly tax deductible advertising to support CMPT content over media which is used to control the governed deplorable.
In other words, every one in business and every politicians supports the media as its presents its the endless productions of its content providers.
All layers but 5 and 7 are contained within an privately owned controlled envelop.
50 state elections, made to look national falsely suggesting presidents are elected by will of the people, but it works and helps to fund the privately owned media with political advertising.
Article II and amendment 12 of the Constitution clearly deny the American people any say in who is to be the P and VP of the USA.
Since 1947, standing orders from Layer 1<= demo the American excellence; destroy its superior economic power relative to the rest of the world enjoyed by Americans. .. The standing order, use rule of law to create the monopoly power that can homogenize the world.
Content providers are part of the great divide, the media is universal and everyone is forced to provide for its availability, but only a few actually have access to deliver any content that is not commercial advertising.
Posted by: snake | Dec 2 2020 13:18 utc | 70
In my experience other than American population inside USA, no other group of people/citizens in the world are under constant state directed disinformation and propaganda. US/Western mida/news programs consist of either fiction, lies, imagination or pure brainwashing propaganda.
Posted by: kooshy | Dec 2 2020 14:42 utc | 71
@8 Gruff
It doesn't work for Androids. And someone wrote you have to repeat those steps after each time you refresh page.
Never mind, everyone should use html tags or not post offending link.
@7 Joe,@10 Maracatu, @15 Trond
That's nice, but can u use the html tags next time? Any one of your links could have messed with the thread format.
Preview always. If link goes off page it's probably going to mess with the thread format.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 2 2020 15:02 utc | 72
Sid Victor Cattoni @Dec1 21:41 #26
That's an interesting thesis and makes some sense, though its not easy to prove.
The said post has been widely cited above, but has been deleted. Why? Was it too revealing? I arrived too late to see it, unfortunately. There is far too much censorship of alternate viewpoints to the favoured narrative around here these days. That never used to be the case before 2020.
Posted by: BM | Dec 2 2020 15:05 utc | 73
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 1 2020 20:07 utc | 5
Another (not Drosten) German scholar, Alexander Kekulé seems to have gotten himself into troubles with some powerful media bastions of "the German West" at the moment, his thesis is that the worldwide or at least the European spread started with a specific mutation in Northern Italy, where it went undetected for quite some time. Since there was a heavy flue at the same time.
As you may imagine he is assaulted as Chinese apologist. He claims he first heard a warning via a colleague in Hong Kong. Hardly had paid attention at that time, but did shortly after.
Let them struggle in search for the ultimate guilty. ;)
Must be interesting to work in the field at the moment,
Posted by: vig | Dec 2 2020 15:14 utc | 74
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 1 2020 20:07 utc | 5
Since there was a heavy flue at the same time.
Modification:
Hmm, ok maybe the parallel flue was in China. But anyway, wouldn't you have expected a flue could be the reason for certain symptoms in January. At least in some parts of the world.
Posted by: vig | Dec 2 2020 15:19 utc | 75
America is a ‘post truth society ‘ they have replaced the meaning of truth with ‘agenda’
They don’t realise how debilitating that is for their national mental health.
The same affect a computer virus will have on ya laptop !
Right now America is a work of fiction not fact.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 2 2020 15:20 utc | 76
karlof1 | Dec 1 2020 21:57 utc | 27 says :
« COVID-19 as being a bioweapon is solved in the negative--unless--someone can link its emergence to a proven hypothesis that includes the Davos Parasites plan for a "Great Reset," as that would provide a motive. »
karlof, I disagree that the 'issue of being a bioweapon is solved in the negative'. Firstly, there are many genetic studies that show that this virus is unlikely to come from nature. Secondly, and what is much less discussed, is that at least three different strains (early reporting from last spring indicated that there were at least 5 strains) appeared almost simultaneously in 3 different locations, China, Italy and Iran. I find it hard to believe that this could have been from a single source. And I find it even much harder to believe (impossible) that three different sources could have emerged, by fluke of nature, at the same time in three geographically separated parts of the globe.
As for the motive, the 'Davos Parasites' plan for the “Great Reset” may well have been the motive for developing such a bio-weapon, as a crisis is clearly necessary for the implementation of such a plan. However the timing of its release is, I believe, related to the U.S. election and the failure of the ;Davos Parasites' and their Deep-State operatives to remove Trump from office.
Consider the following:
1. The earliest known cases of the virus, October 2019 in Wuhan and September 2019 in Italy/France come appeared shortly after it became clear, August 2019, that the Trump impeachment based on the Ukrainian phone call would fail.
2. Nancy Pelosi delayed the impeachment trial for more than a month in December, for no apparent reason. She then restarted it when news came that the virus was beginning to spread to the U.S. Was this an attempt to ensure that Trump would not be able to focus on the virus while fighting impeachment?
3. The virus was exactly what the Democrats needed to defeat Trump. It was weaponized against Trump by:
- destroying the economy, a precondition for defeating Trump
- blaming Trump's incompetence for the spread of the virus
- providing cover for the mail-in vote scam that was necessary to steal the election.
And it came at the perfect time. How convenient!
Posted by: dh-mtl | Dec 2 2020 15:47 utc | 77
So, when China banned internal flights to or from Wuhan the CCP was being transparent to the world?
Why then did the WHO later blare the line that international flights from Wuhan and the rest of China should not be interrupted? China's pet gone rogue?
Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Dec 2 2020 15:54 utc | 78
BM@73
The offending post destroyed the format and made the thread unreadable.
It stretched the comments wider than the screen.
Posted by: arby | Dec 2 2020 16:03 utc | 79
@ dh-mtl @ 77 the virus did these things
https://southfront.org/explosion-rocked-yemeni-sanaa-airport/
@ dh-mtl @ 77 the virus did these things 1. appeared in 3x versions. 2. delayed impeachment 3. destroyed Trumps' version of the economy, demonstrated Trump's ignorance to be a function of his ego, and 3 provided cover for the mail in scam..
but I think it did a lot of other things.
1. it alerted the medical community that they were being held hostage to a political take over
2. it explained it no uncertain terms to even the most reluctant citizen that government for the purpose of their protection was not only a farce on its face but also that the pharma industry had control of every word the media yelled.
3. it generated some community originated commercial efforts to avoid government at all costs.
4. it showed that every governor was the controlled puppet of the fed.
5. it demonstrated beyond doubt, that the CDC stinks from its foundation to its rooftop
6. it showed that even though Mudaro and others developed very effective means to deny the virus infectious entry the media assisted world of government would completely ignore them.
7. it taught me that most health care providers know zero about cell biology..
8. it taught that WHO would be ignored by nation states controlled by big Pharma
9. no one in their right mind would try any of these vaccines .. no matter how sick they otherwise become.
the medicine industry and its big pharma bandits are layer 2 components
Posted by: snake | Dec 2 2020 16:03 utc | 80
@ Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Dec 2 2020 15:54 utc | 78
Basic geography lesson to you.
If the initial epidemic was in Wuhan and Wuhan is locked down, that means no flights go to or get out of Wuhan (even international flights, as Wuhan has an international airport). The message is clear: there is an outbreak in Wuhan, which is quarantined.
From this, the rest of the world has a decision to make: was China able to confine the virus in Wuhan or did it escape?
Most of the Western countries bet China successfully contained the virus in Wuhan, therefore kept their flights from China coming (and flight to China going). In fact, many of them denied it would ever become a pandemic (e.g. the USA and the UK).
Your government bet and lost. Your elected government. Deal with it.
Liberty Blogger @78: "So, when China banned internal flights to or from Wuhan the CCP was being transparent to the world?"
Absolutely. It wasn't a secret. What's not transparent about it? Do they need to hold your hand and explain in monosyllabic baby-talk what quarantine means?
"Why then did the WHO later blare the line that international flights from Wuhan and the rest of China should not be interrupted?"
"Muh Freeeedums!" --Someone with "liberty" in their handle?
The were just showing sensitivity to your personal neuroses. What would some chin-masker with a handle like "Liberty Blogger" be squealing about if he were stuck in Wuhan back in February and couldn't go home to Shitstain, Alabama along with his recently acquired pet virus?
You really need to clarify and fully explain what you imagine to not be "transparent" about any of this because bringing this point up without offering that clarification makes you sound really stupid and irrational. Your argument simply makes no sense as it stands.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2020 16:41 utc | 82
What about the British, French and USA governments <=is not authoritarian. <=everything those governments do is in secret, everyone who works for those governments is held to the strictest standard of secrecy, and none of the govern deplorables have sufficient vote or say power to hold any of the bastards that run these governments and their bureaucracies and military and contractors accountable? IMO, authoritarian is a relative; it measures deplorable resistance to authoritative manipulation, usurpations and abuse. Nothing else.
Posted by: snake | Dec 2 2020 13:18 utc | 70
I would offer some quibbling. It is quite obvious that "authoritarian" word was created to describe intermediate situations between "democratic" and "dictatorial". However, governments and elites use a variety of tools to achieve their aims with tolerably low resistance from the bulk of populations, and they include (dictatorial) force and (democratic) manipulation. According to classification propose by political theorists/philosophers, democracies are affected by varying degrees of degeneration. However, part of the degeneration is that on many vital issues, people accept status quo because they do not know any better, while their attention is redirected. That could be because they are politically stupid (while usually revealing intelligence in other ways), or they access information streams that are contaminated by design.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 2 2020 17:21 utc | 83
BM@73
Actually the format offending post was @3, the hypothesis offending one was @26. The theory presented in the latter allowed an explanation for some facts, namely: early herd immunity policy, Theodore Roosevelt and Vietnam outbreaks, difficult location of "patient zero" in Europe, false positives, early mask policy and Chinese reinfection claims. While it could fit some pieces of the puzzle together, it amounts to a very hard to prove theory, as was mentioned by other commenters. I am sure you can find its gist in some web archive.
Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Dec 2 2020 17:35 utc | 84
Sid Victor Cattoni @26--
A very good argumentative hypothesis. I thank you for it.
Again, thanks for your comment. I hope you'll provide others.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 1 2020 22:24 utc | 31
...
Sid Victor Cattoni @Dec1 21:41 #26
That's an interesting thesis and makes some sense, though its not easy to prove.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 1 2020 22:49 utc | 34
...
Sid Victor Cattoni @ 26 -- Thank you for a plausible scenario.
But brilliant 'join-the-dots' thinking.
Posted by: kiwiklown | Dec 2 2020 6:09 utc | 55
...
The said post has been widely cited above, but has been deleted. Why? Was it too revealing? I arrived too late to see it, unfortunately. There is far too much censorship of alternate viewpoints to the favoured narrative around here these days. That never used to be the case before 2020.
Posted by: BM | Dec 2 2020 15:05 utc | 73
...
So a big WTF on this post disappearing ?
Posted by: CitizenX | Dec 2 2020 17:36 utc | 85
I guess free thinking and open alternatives does not fit with MEIN KAMPF mentality around here?
Patrick Lang the new moderator?
Posted by: CitizenX | Dec 2 2020 17:40 utc | 86
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2020 16:41 utc | 82
You touched a point I've thinking about, and that is the absolute lost of any value due to overuse for the words liberty and freedom. New words will be needed to better define those lofty concepts.
Posted by: Paco | Dec 2 2020 17:43 utc | 87
for the record, that was the first and only post that Sid Victor Cattoni ever made at moa... maybe b knows something we don't... i agree with the commentary from @ Vasco da Gama | Dec 2 2020 17:35 utc | 84
Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 18:08 utc | 88
Piotr Berman @83
I'm curious what this "force" is that you are talking about. Is that like arresting people and then shooting them if they refuse to be arrested? `Cuz I am pretty sure we had some discussion about that happening in model "democratic" places not so long ago.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2020 18:10 utc | 89
@Jay-Ottawa
Double-clicking or right-clicking?
There's a way to right-click on the MacBook trackpad with only one hand by tapping using two fingers.
Posted by: Josep | Dec 2 2020 18:32 utc | 90
snake @70--
Very well done! The Outstanding Historian Charles Beard noted the very undemocratic nature of media consolidation during the early 1930s as the Depression did its work--and that was before the advent of television. Few historians have noted the Crash provided the same environment for consolidation as all later Neoliberal crashes caused by Neoliberal Fraud have provided such as now. The timing is important as media consolidation allowed for greater degrees of control and the resulting closure of the American Mind to paraphrase a well known Classic Conservative. The building of the structure you presented has been happening for over 100 years.
dh-mtl @77--
Thanks for your reply. The timeline for Trump's Treason related to COVID began almost as soon as he entered office. The Outlaw US Empire's economy hasn't grown in real terms since 1990 and was about to go into another shock in early 2019 when Powell restarted the QE in secret. Nothing about this pandemic is neat and nicely structured, which is why Sid's hypothesis was going to be very difficult to prove.
Clearly, there are some very evil minds at work in our world with some having the resources of a nation-state, and they are aligned with some like-minded factions within the 5-Eyes and other nations. But the overall Big Picture hasn't changed much in the last 120-140 years as Geopolitical Wrestling is still focused on Eurasia. As I've reported, solidarity amongst Eurasian nations is rising and is now including Asia's island nations, while India and Afghanistan could be thought of as teeth penetrated by cavities needing to be either filled or pulled; and the Gulf Emirates could be seen similarly. Fortunately, Occupied Palestine geographically is in the wrong place to have any further impact. CSTO Foreign Ministers held their Summit yesterday with the Heads-of-State Summit happening today. Lavrov's presser from yesterday hinted at further consolidation of solidarity with SCO linking with CSTO and CIS nations--The Eurasian Bloc grows while the Neoliberal Bloc dissolves.
CitizenX @Dec2 17:36 #85
So a big WTF on this post disappearing ?
james @Dec2 18:08 #88
... maybe b knows something we don't...
Please b, tell us why that comment was removed.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2020 18:57 utc | 92
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2020 18:46 utc | 91
Chubais fired from Rosnano, that may be as important if not more than the OSCE telesummit. A survivor of the Gaidar cabinet, the big privatization swindle of the 90's. The liberals are losing positions.
Posted by: Paco | Dec 2 2020 20:22 utc | 93
Thank you "b"...its always a pleasure to read your cogent analysis.
Posted by: Greg | Dec 2 2020 21:10 utc | 94
Solve the 'long line' problem in MoA pages!
Geany is a very great source code editor, and also a powerful plain text editor. If you SIMPLY copy and paste any entire web page into it, it can provide its OWN text line wrap functionality. It will solve the text long line problem easily. You can easily choose from many fonts too. You should un-check all 'View' options except 'Show Toolbar'.
For Windows (yuck!) you can safely download it at:
Softpedia -- Geany -- Free Download
.
(I would avoid any Microsoft Store offering.)
It is usually available in Linux 'package managers'. I think it it's available for Apple computers also.
I would get the general spell checking 'dictionary' (en_us.oxt) needed for the Geany spell check plugin:
Spell Checking Dictionary
You will be amazed at how easy and useful it is!!!
Paco @93--
Thanks for that tidbit! Never did like him. Perhaps he'll become the next Navalny-type for the CIA's machinations. I went to see if Novak's part of the teleconference was included in the final part of that transcript, but it wasn't to my disappointment. I went to the Russian Government's website to look him up thinking that his participation might be noted there, but there wasn't anything in English. I see the CSTO Summit transcript is available, but the curious "Statement of the CSTO Collective Security Council on creating a just and sustainable world order" isn't linked, nor is it at the CSTO's English version website yet.
Today after the CSTO Summit that produced the still mysterious Statement of the CSTO Collective Security Council on creating a just and sustainable world order, Putin announced the beginning of mass vaccinations within Russia using the Sputnik-5 product.
Paco @ 93:
Are you able to provide the link to the news about Chubais' sacking from RUSNANO? The RUSNANO website still holds his profile.
Karlof1 @ 96:
Alexei Kudrin as Auditor General seems a better bet as the CIA's point-man as he is actually in the Russian public service.
There is no shortage of younger Navalny-linked activists like Dr Anastasia Vasilyeva and Lyubov Sobol who can be promoted as a new generation of oppositionists. They are women as well, and that fact is sure to sit well with the target Western SJW audiences whose support is needed for future regime change movements. Never mind that they will garner even less support in Russia than Navalny did - a good part of Navalny's support seems to have come from female groupie types.
Navalny is unlikely ever to return to Russia. The more he shoots his mouth off publicly, the more likely that he will be threatened with criminal charges for abusing a WWII veteran and for other activities - so he is better off staying put in Germany until such time as he becomes an embarrassment to his host community or Berlin. He'll probably move to some other country that will have him (at CIA orders perhaps) then.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 2 2020 22:53 utc | 98
CitizenX@86
The answer to your question is that the post in question made the thread unreadable by stretching the format to a very inconvenient length.
In my view this, accomplished by running a line of asterisks across the page, was deliberate sabotage by a bad tempered and stupid commenter.
The few actual, semi-incoherent arguments and assertions that he made were neither original nor convincing.
To accuse b, who by removing the post restored the legibility of the discussion, of authoritarian behaviour is unjustifiable and unfair.
Few sites on the internet allow posters as much leeway as this one. Indeed many people eschew the comments section because there is so much nonsense, repetition and abuse in it.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 2 2020 23:03 utc | 99
@ bevin | Dec 2 2020 23:03 utc | 99.. that is incorrect bevin.. it was per/norways post @ 3 which screwed the thread earlier.. not the post by Sid Victor Cattoni
see @ 84 Vasco da Gama | Dec 2 2020 17:35 utc who has it exactly correct...
Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 23:06 utc | 100
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speaking of covid, https://www.rt.com/op-ed/508383-fatal-flaws-covid-test/ links to a paper which "systematically dismantles the original study, called the Corman-Drosten paper, which described a protocol for applying the PCR technique to detecting Covid." https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/ .. fwiw.
Posted by: Michael | Dec 1 2020 19:36 utc | 1