Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 21, 2020

A No Deal Brexit Is Now All But Certain To Happen

"Fog in channel. Continent cut off." is a famous headline that was once used in a British newspaper (or maybe not). It encapsulates the snobbish British attitude towards Europe. Some fog indeed arose in the channel today but a much denser cloud will arise from the waters on January 1.

The new variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus now per-dominant in south England has give a sudden foretaste of the chaos that can be expected at Britain's borders 10 days from now when Britain will leave the custom union and common market with the EU.

It remains unclear how much the mutant virus will change the course of the pandemic:

Scientists, meanwhile, are hard at work trying to figure out whether B.1.1.7 is really more adept at human-to-human transmission—not everyone is convinced yet—and if so, why. They’re also wondering how it evolved so fast. B.1.1.7 has acquired 17 mutations all at once, a feat never seen before.
...
One reason to be concerned, [Andrew Rambaut, a molecular evolutionary biologist at the University of Edinburgh,] says, is that among the 17 mutations are eight in the gene that encodes the spike protein on the viral surface, two of which are particularly worrisome. One, called N501Y, has previously been shown to increase how tightly the protein binds to the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 receptor, its entry point into human cells. The other, named 69-70del, leads to the loss of two amino acids in the spike protein and has been found in viruses that eluded the immune response in some immunocompromised patients.
...
In a press conference on Saturday, Chief Science Adviser Patrick Vallance said B.1.1.7, which first appeared in a virus isolated on 20 September, accounted for about 26% of cases in mid-November. “By the week commencing the ninth of December, these figures were much higher,” he said. “So, in London, over 60% of all the cases were the new variant.” Johnson added that the slew of mutations may have increased the virus’ transmissibility by 70%.

Christian Drosten, a virologist at Charité University Hospital in Berlin, says that was premature. “There are too many unknowns to say something like that,” he says. For one thing, the rapid spread of B.1.1.7 might be down to chance. Scientists previously worried that a variant that spread rapidly from Spain to the rest of Europe—confusingly called B.1.177—might be more transmissible, but today they think it is not; it just happened to be carried all over Europe by travelers who spent their holidays in Spain. Something similar might be happening with B.1.1.7, says Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Georgetown University. Drosten notes that the new mutant also carries a deletion in another viral gene, ORF8, that previous studies suggest might reduce the virus’ ability to spread.

Some 40 countries reacted to yesterday's news of the new virus variant by stopping air traffic with Britain. France closed all transport links with the island. Britain depends on food from abroad and there were immediately fears about supply shortages:

UK supermarkets and supply chain experts warned of potential shortages of some products if the French restrictions aren't eased soon. The UK government held a crisis meeting Monday.

One major supermarket chain, Sainsbury's, said it had stockpiled enough produce to prevent Brits going without their Christmas dinners but warned of shortages of some fresh fruit and vegetables if the situation doesn't improve soon.

"If nothing changes, we will will start to see gaps over the coming days on lettuce, salad leaves, cauliflowers, broccoli, citrus fruit — all of which are imported from EU at this time of year," Sainsbury's said in a statement. "We hope UK and French [governments] can come to a solution that prioritizes immediate passage of produce and food."

The closing down of transport routes makes little sense as the horse has already left the proverbial barn. The B.1.1.7 mutant was first observed on September 20. As it is now prevalent in south Britain it has certainly already crossed the borders and reached other countries. If it really has an advantage over other variants of the virus by being more infectious it will in the end be found all over the world.

Britain has an excellent integrated surveillance system for virus variants. In about 5% of all Covid-19 cases in Britain the virus genome gets sequenced. Other countries sequence one in 1000 cases or even less. There is no way they could find and isolate all carriers of the new variant.

The proverbial fog that came down with the new virus variant is therefore likely to lift soon.

But a few days later the fog will arise again. Over the last days the chance of a hard no-deal Brexit on December 31 has mightily increased. Without a deal the easy transfer of goods from and to Britain will end. As new procedure have not been put into place the chaos that will cause will by far exceed anything we are seeing today.

Yves Smith sees little chance for a deal to still happen. Her opener is appropriate:

One has to wonder if all the bad karma that the UK incurred in its imperial days has finally come home to roost with a vengeance. The UK has found that the Brexit cliff edge arrived early thanks to a Covid cordon imposed by its trade partners, and as we’ll discuss soon, the real Brexit cliff is bearing down on the UK.

The last negotiations on Sunday about a deal that would allow Britain common market access have failed. There are at least two open issues. Fishing rights for EU countries in British waters is the more populist one. But the 'level playing field', which means that Britain has to stick to some EU rules if it wants free market access, is the way more important issue:

Because the Brexit deadline “wolf” has been cried one too many times, the press is under-reacting to the failure to come to an agreement over the weekend. This is an event horizon. It even resembles the way the real-life version is supposed to work, that there’s no obvious change when an object gets irrevocably sucked into the gravitational field of a black hole. The two sides are bizarrely still talking about a deal that now can’t get done in time as opposed to changing focus to what happens on January 1 and what can be done to ameliorate the damage.

In fairness, the EU now looks to be engaging in an empty exercise simply to preserve its claim that it didn’t leave the negotiating table. But Barnier would need a new mandate to do anything different, or at least some interim guidance from the Commission.

Nevertheless, the talks appear to be terminal even though both sides are still meeting. The headlines in the UK press are also making it sound as if fish, which to Brexiteers means EU intransigence, are scuppering the deal, when the critically important “level playing field” is still unresolved.

The EU can now allow Britain free access to its market and allow it to subsidize its companies or to lower working, health or quality standards. That would give British companies an unfair advantage over those within the EU. Barnier, the chief EU negotiator, has order not to move on the issue. But in the eyes of a Brexiteer a 'level playing field' means that Britain must follow EU rules and thereby does not have full sovereignty. Unless Boris Johnson makes a 180 degree turn and accepts the 'level playing field' clauses today, no deal will be made.

Anything negotiated beyond today can not be ratified by the EU parliament before January 1. Those who expect that the EU parliament will fudge the issues, and will let a deal pass without having sufficient time to look into it, misjudge the mood Brussels is in.

It's over. Brexit is done. Unfortunatelly done in a way that maximizes the damage it will cause.

Posted by b on December 21, 2020 at 19:22 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

As I recall, a No-Deal Brexit was what Bojo wanted all along. And with the new virus type, that will come now and very abruptly as most nations seek to quarantine the UK.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 21 2020 19:27 utc | 1

"Unfortunately done in a way that maximizes the damage it will cause."

Meh. That's what Brexit is, dear Moonofalabama.org. Any 'Brexit deal' would not be the Brexit the UK population voted for. Simple as that.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Dec 21 2020 19:34 utc | 2

'The EU can now allow Britain' should read 'can not'.

Posted by: pescau | Dec 21 2020 19:40 utc | 3

The City wanted a hard no deal and that is exactly what they are getting. The little people matter not. The ability of the City to have free rein across the world and become the new dark web hub of the 21st century is what this was always about. Mission Accomplished.

Posted by: MK | Dec 21 2020 20:08 utc | 4

You should stick to being a spokesman for The Chinese Communist Party. A party that would throw you into the laogai for eternity if you crossed it.

I'm astonished why people take the clown who runs this site seriously?

Posted by: Glasshopper | Dec 21 2020 20:09 utc | 5

They will still trade under WTO rules, but the UK will not have the free access it does now. Also, there will be a hard border in Ireland between NI and the Republic.

Posted by: bob sykes | Dec 21 2020 20:11 utc | 6

5 Glasshopper

Have you considered the possibility that you are the clown? Once you accept that everything will make more sense to you.

Posted by: Atreides | Dec 21 2020 20:27 utc | 7

The UK counts on the Commonwealth countries and the usa to become its preferred partners.
Its visceral hatred for Russia will cease to influence the EU and the EU will do what it should have done years ago, partner with Russian and become a much more powerful block. Bye sick UK. Welcome healthy Russia...

Posted by: Virgile | Dec 21 2020 20:31 utc | 8

Virgile @8--

Please read my comment here before celebrating any merging of EU with Russia.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 21 2020 20:40 utc | 9

Britain has an excellent integrated surveillance system for virus variants. In about 5% of all Covid-19 cases in Britain the virus genome gets sequenced. Other countries sequence one in 1000 cases or even less. There is no way they could find and isolate all carriers of the new variant.
In Iceland the virus from every infected ( positive PCR) individual is sequenced. Every adult arriving from abroad is tested twice, five days apart. The B.1.1.7 did arrive with an infected visitor from UK early in December. The infection was detected in testing at the border, the indvidual was isolated and did not infect anone.

Posted by: eik | Dec 21 2020 20:41 utc | 10

Atreides @7
"Have you considered the possibility that you are the clown? Once you accept that everything will make more sense to you."

Comment of the day.
Still Laughing
Zerohedge does not have a shortage.
Thanks

Posted by: ld | Dec 21 2020 20:59 utc | 11

Infectivity of the virus is not at all as simple to estimate as these people think.
They lost the plot from the start; instead of following the Chinese (who publicized what they were successfully doing, step by step) they just let the epidemic run wild, then they retrospectively fitted a door to an already empty barn by half-measures that by themselves couldn't really block the spread, then they further relaxed these half-hearted measures. Under these conditions, it's somewhat hard to estimate the differences in infectivity among various strains: infectivity is not like virulence, ie a directly observable characteristic. It can be partly or entirely due to local differences in the rules, the de facto observation of the rules (= the population mindset) and the fact that in an out-of-control environment no measurements are reliable.

Posted by: Piero Colombo | Dec 21 2020 21:06 utc | 12

thanks b.... if only there was a way for porton down to imply that this new strain had an element of that military grade novichok... maybe they are working on it as i speak, lol...

as for the brexit fiasco.... i am mystified at who wins and who loses in all this.. it seems to me as another poster pointed up up above @ MK - it is the financial centre of the uk (tied at the hip with the federal reserve and of course the uk-usa never miss a chance at war for money) that in all likelihood are the winners in this game of predictable outcomes... boris the clown is the perfect leader for such a time as this.. in thinking of just how corrupt the british empire was and this monarchy supported by the people and all other losers in the so called commonwealth, need to get rid of all of it asap... but of course the msm will be saying the exact opposite.. so, i don't expect anyone to wake up from this madness any time soon...

back to this new virus mutation... is it also a much weaker variant? does anyone know?? i suspect it will be said to be a super -duper and way worse variant.. this is what i expect the msm to report to me...

Posted by: james | Dec 21 2020 21:16 utc | 13

The new virus is said to be 70% contagious.
As a U.K. citizen I can say, b is absalutly right in every detail.
Will Europe except refugee boats coming from Britain ?
What goes around comes around.
Boris has cancelled Christmas.

If you don’t beleave b —- here’s a Londoners view
(Sorry about the language)
https://mobile.twitter.com/chunkymark

But but what about Santa !!

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 21 2020 21:35 utc | 14

Virgile @8

The yoke of Russophobic activism will presumably be taken up by Poland, the Baltic states, and whoever else can be recruited into it.

Posted by: BillB | Dec 21 2020 21:38 utc | 15

Typo Mark2 @ 13
70% MORE contagious

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 21 2020 21:40 utc | 16

Brexit is a distraction! ...from

1. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is in-charge of torturing Julian Assange for telling the truth about US government crimes against people.

2. Pres. Donald Trump is is in charge of torturing Edward Snowden for telling the truth of US government crimes against the people.

3. Pres. Donald Trump is in charge of torturing Bradley Manning for telling the truth of US government crimes against the people.

We all need reminders to help straighten out our priorities.

Posted by: chu teh | Dec 21 2020 22:13 utc | 17

New virus is said to be 70% more contagious? Thats good news then. 70% of not very contagious which the OG (Pharmacorp govt mandated revenue stream) is.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 21 2020 22:25 utc | 18

Big catch! award to pescau | Dec 21 2020 19:40 utc | 3

'The EU can now allow Britain' should read 'can not'.

So b's post [a few paragraphs from bottom] should read...

The EU can not allow Britain free access to its market and allow it to subsidize its companies or to lower working, health or quality standards.

Posted by: chu teh | Dec 21 2020 22:30 utc | 19

[Yves Smith, NakedCapitalism.com:] ... the press is under-reacting to the failure to come to an agreement over the weekend.

The controlled press is under-reacting? LOL. Shall we think that through or, just chalk it up to Brexit weariness?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 21 2020 22:32 utc | 20

please forgive me Bernhard but I think you meant to say "The new variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus now predominant......"

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 21 2020 22:43 utc | 21

Virus mutation? Or vaccine dog whistle? (OMG! gotta get the jab!)

Wow. I wrote many times in the summer about how it's preferable to mount a real fight against SARS-COV-2 instead of relying on vaccines. And I cited the danger of mutation.

But the astro-turfed libertarian mob successfully took the oxygen out of the air (and out of sheeple brains) with their anti-mask and anti-lockdown messaging. Now the sheeple have become guinea-pigs for DARPA-funded mRNA tech. I guess that's the kind of thing sheeple are good for.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Nothing To See Here?

The media plays down BREXIT and plays up an impossible mutation.

Just another day of dystopia.

Enjoy the show.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 21 2020 22:52 utc | 22


Some 40 countries reacted to yesterday's news of the new virus variant by stopping air traffic with Britain. France closed all transport links with the island. Britain depends on food from abroad and there were immediately fears about supply shortages:

Never let a good crisis go to waste (channeling Winstone Churchill's voice ...)


It's over. Brexit is done. Unfortunatelly done in a way that maximizes the damage it will cause.

No. Brexit is done-for. The process will be reviewed and this 'convenient' new development will lead to a new referendum. Ultimately when all the fog has cleared there will be no Brexit.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 21 2020 22:55 utc | 23

If the UK is analysing 50 times or more more sample numbers than anybody else, small wonder they're turning up more data and more variation. There are lots of interesting SARS2 samples in freezers all over the place dating back to 2019. Of course, the more strains actually present in a region, the longer the virus has been there.

Unfortunately for the UK, early on BoJo and his band of pranksters found concepts of biology such as "random" and "novel" too difficult to understand compared to a herd immunity model caged from veterinary vaccinology and applied to a Coronavirus, not typically known for inducing strong or persistent immune response in humans. We should all wish for science based policy in healthcare but the UK has been burdened with especially shambolic incompetent government in so many aspects for too long.
What Coronaviruses do exhibit is cross over to other species and cross back to humans. Hello, intensively farmed mink. Recombined viral variants crossing over from other species is an equally concerning random infection risk.
Up to now, the identification of strains has not been accompanied by any confirmed increase in virulence. Random luck perhaps, given the fools in charge.

Posted by: TDeL | Dec 21 2020 23:03 utc | 24

karlof1 | Dec 21 2020 19:27 utc | 1
I know you are aware of what follows but it is a reminder to all of us:

Brexit from what? Britain was never really in. They are not fools. A precise "tell" was and remains they would NEVER give up total control of their own currency. They were part of the EU scheme because it served their purposes in the long run. All else is redundant or fog and blather. [An exception is that they control to their liking, covertly or not, any new financial scheme or any other scheme.].

They are masters* at the long game, analysing and projecting at least 50 years ahead of present time...and probably 100 years forward. Always.

Their "mistakes" are often confused with current events, while the full consequences are in fact not observable until that future occurs.

* in a tie or second to China...or more likely with China. Any doubters should see and comprehend the existence of The Commonwealth Of Nations for a start. It is just one of the vital ingredients of history. There are many in the composite we call "history", and there are others just as vital, such as their 16th-century Hakluyts' enterprise [one of the few examples of what underlies and guides the long-game].

Posted by: chu teh | Dec 21 2020 23:05 utc | 25

Jackrabbit
I seem to remember you were very anti Jeremy Corbyn Labour.
Leaving us with a choice of right wing Boris Johnson, far right wing Farage, and a Zionist leader of the Labour Party !
Do you have any good advice for us now ?
My advice to Americans is —- take along hard look at this it’s about to happen to you.
Don’t support the right wing. Don’t be Lazy now you voted, reclaimed your polatians ‘ they work for you’
Reclame your law and order.
Blame the people responsible for corporate manslaghter.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 21 2020 23:10 utc | 26

My god the englanders' stupidity is best revealed in this entire bullshit claim that "foreigners are stealing our fish".

The truth is that back in the 1990's when fish stocks around britain and the North Sea suffered a major drop due to overfishing, englander fishers sold their permits and allocations to anyone who would buy them, and that happened to be assorted Euro fisheries (largely french and Dutch who had the patience and foresight to see that once fish stocks were given a few years of low fishing to recover, then things would get back to normal. Englander avarice outweighed common sense and successive englander governments stuck their hands in their pockets ignoring the massive damage that this would do to slimy albion's food security.

Back in 2019 Greenpeace released "Privatising the seas: how the UK turned fishing rights into a commodity " which details the idiocy.

Englander Fishers who according to The Independent ". . . . the 5,000 small boats operated by the traditional UK fishing families are increasingly marginalised – holding just 4 per cent of the entire UK quota between them." are upset that so much of the fish in and around england are being caught by 'foreigners' yet they are blaming the wrong people. It isn't the EU which made this happen it was greedy london capitalists and stupid or bribed (probably both) englander politicians and bureaucrats.

This is what makes 'the problem' so intractable, the only solution has nothing to do with Brexit, this cannot be remedied by any number of lying politicians from england and europe set on placating their nationalist constituents. The only possible fix would be for the england government to buy back the allocation and issue it to englander fishers (from what I can understand the problem is far smaller in Scotland where only 4% of the allocation is foreign owned).

The problem with buying it back is that greed, banks and grubby brokers would probably buy up the licenses once more then in a few years flog them off to the highest bidder once more. Of course it also depends upon the current owners wanting to sell and not all will want to forgo their community's access to a relatively inexpensive form of protein just because some whitehall toffs tells 'em to.

The solution lies in englander culture and its dog eat dog devil take the hindmost amorality. Fix that then maybe negotiate a viable commercial deal with the current allocation holders.

Johnson et al beat this right up during the height of Brexit hysteria but now they have to deal with facts not fantasy comes the realisation that "giving johnny foreigner two fingers" then walking out of europe cannot change a lightbulb let alone the fact that a bunch of foreign owned entities hold the majority of england's fishery allocation.

They could legislate to seize the allocations of course, if they want to spend 10 years in expensive litigation they would lose as well as really get offside with the WTO at a time when they will badly need to be on good terms with that crooked bastion of neoliberalism.

Bombast meets reality - pass the popcorn, that looks like it will be a good show.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 21 2020 23:13 utc | 27

Columbia Univ virologist Vincent Racaniello explains: *MUTANT* sars-CoV2? Meh, not too scary...

"SARS-CoV-2 UK variant: Does it matter?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC8ObD2W4Rk (25 min)

Posted by: gm | Dec 21 2020 23:37 utc | 28

The taxi driver from Mark2 @13 calls Boris, "Fucko the Clown" - some things can never be erased. He will live forever as that for me.

~~

karlof1 in the last thread here quotes the Global Times editorial as berating the west for ignoring the virus, explaining that this is not the way to deal with it, and that lying to their citizens has denied the people of the western countries a true understanding of the survival necessities. Because the virus has now been allowed to spread all over the world instead of being contained, it stands a greater chance of mutating, and becomes ever harder for the world to defeat it.

~~

On the other hand, b reports in his article that the way the 17 mutations appeared in the UK is something never seen before in virology. Funnily enough, Larry Romanoff at Unz Review has a pretty magisterial review of the state of play globally, and reports that the virus keeps erupting in ways that have never been seen before with natural pandemics - as if it keeps getting re-seeded deliberately in various spots around the world.

Needless to say that if so, this would indicate something very major and aggressive happening. I don't like to go down that path, but I feel it's something to keep on the slab for dissection as we do the forensics on the fly.

I believe that Unz has stopped linking again from here, so no link for that one, but it's December 14, the "Un-explained" article.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 22 2020 0:06 utc | 29

Actually, on the off chance that unz links are working currently, here's that review from Romanoff:
COVID-19 Un-Explained

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 22 2020 0:08 utc | 30

In their day, Marx and Engels thought the peoples revolution would begin in england. After more than a century that liberation is at hand. Perhaps ;))

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 22 2020 0:37 utc | 31

Mark2 @Dec21 23:10 #25:

I seem to remember you were very anti Jeremy Corbyn Labour.

No, that's wrong. I do think Corbyn failed as a leader. He seemed to play it safe. And that led to his political demise because TPTB were gunning for him.

I am apolitical. I criticize both the left and right because the left has generally (not always) been compromised/co-opted. This is especially true in USA duopoly politics (as Jimmy Dore and other critics have described many times).

IMO, the real issue of our time is that democratic governance is undermined (again and again) by EMPIRE imperatives that cause monied interests and MIC to prevail on all important issues. But hey, AIPAC is happy and the sheeple are allowed the freedom to march for gender-neutral bathrooms and racial equality - so who am I to complain?/sarc

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 22 2020 0:57 utc | 32

...
In a press conference on Saturday, Chief Science Adviser Patrick Vallance said B.1.1.7, which first appeared in a virus isolated on 20 September, accounted for about 26% of cases in mid-November. “By the week commencing the ninth of December, these figures were much higher,” he said. “So, in London, over 60% of all the cases were the new variant.” Johnson added that the slew of mutations may have increased the virus’ transmissibility by 70%.
...

Not being an ??-ologist, that paragraph indicates to me that a virus with greater transmissibiliy will REPLACE/DISPLACE the original Covid19 strain. Since the emerging consensus among virologists is that the B.1.1.7 variant is no more deadly than the original, then the only reason it matters is that more people will catch the mutated version than would have caught COVID19 - thus putting more pressure on an already over-stressed healthcare system.

Since it looks as though a vaccine isn't going to be a Silver Bullet for many months, if not many, many months, I find it peculiar that more effort wasn't expended on pursuing a TREATMENT to reduce the severity of COVID symptoms.

I caught CGTN News this morning and China has officially abandoned a 'promising' TREATMENT it was working on because the stats indicate that it doesn't work...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 22 2020 2:14 utc | 33

The Brits are getting their just desserts right in time for Christmas.

They wanted Boris who is proving to be an incompetent nincompoop; and they got him; before that, they wanted Brexit and by God they got that too!

They tarred and feathered Corbyn as an Anti-Semite and now Labour is over-run with Zionists.

Covid mutant karma has come to bite the Brits in the ass and the entire EU has shut the door on them. What irony when it was the U.K. supposed to show EU who's boss.

Left to it's own devices, the U.K. has become a hot mess.

I think it's called reaping what you sow and oh yes: Be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 22 2020 2:41 utc | 34

@Id.....

"Have you considered the possibility that you and grasshopper are the clown? Once you accept that everything will make more sense to you."

Because I think the two of you are CIA trolls....

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Dec 22 2020 2:58 utc | 35

@Baby Rani Deb | Dec 22 2020 2:56 utc | 34

With an impressive length of 100 cm, the Hyacinth Macaw is the largest of all the species of parrots in the world. They live in the open air and the savannah meadows of northern Brazil.

Jens Stoltenberg is easily a much larger parrot, he lives in the dirty air between Brussels and Washington and does nothing but parroting the war mongering script that is pushed to his desk.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 22 2020 3:23 utc | 36

Britain depends on food from abroad and there were immediately fears about supply shortages

Sometimes it takes a hundred years for the boomerang to reverberate / come full circle. Oh, the karma of it all. Not many are familiar with the famine caused by — what are they called now? — English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_famine_of_1917%E2%80%931919


According to the estimates acknowledged by the mainstream view, about 2 million people died between 1917 and 1919 because of hunger and from diseases

Pat Walsh in a review of Majd's book written in Irish Foreign Affairs, a quarterly publication by Irish Political Review blames the British occupation and comments on claims of hoarding as causes of famine, writing "British attitudes towards the starving Persians were uncannily similar to those expressed against the Irish in a similar position half a century before", i.e. the British blamed Persians while suggesting that building roads for their military was a ‘relief measure’ motivated by benevolence.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 22 2020 4:50 utc | 37

Seems like Britain is taking a huge risk just so they can screw over their workers.
Surely there are other ways to make British Companies more competitive than the Dickensian model.

Posted by: Carol Davidek-Waller | Dec 22 2020 5:23 utc | 38

When a few days ago, the UK press was breathlessly parroting the 'fact' the new Covid variant is '70%' more infectious than the old one, I was asking people, How do they arrive at that figure? Disease transmission is not math or engineering where precise figures can be calculated. Sounds like the global Covid franchise needs reinvigorating with a fresh bucket of fear mongering.

Posted by: maradonut | Dec 22 2020 5:55 utc | 39

They’re also wondering how it evolved so fast. B.1.1.7 has acquired 17 mutations all at once, a feat never seen before.

Hmm!

New coronavirus strain is driving resurgence of infections in South Africa

All these mutations at the same time in different geographical areas!

The longer a virus goes around generally the weaker it becomes. Lo and behold this is mutating in ways never seen before to become even stronger.

Posted by: Down South | Dec 22 2020 6:04 utc | 40

@Arch Bungle

No. Brexit is done-for. The process will be reviewed and this 'convenient' new development will lead to a new referendum. Ultimately when all the fog has cleared there will be no Brexit.

Agree. That would not be surprising at all.

Posted by: tom | Dec 22 2020 6:06 utc | 41

I do not think the B.1.1.7 strain is any more infectious than over SARS-COV-2 strains. It prevails because UK has reached a level of herd immunity against the other strains.

It is falsely claimed that a 70% infection rate is required for herd immunity. The 70% applies to vaccines, which are distributed evenly throughout the population. For the epidemic to calm down only a very small portion of the population needs to become immune. This same population is most likely to spread the infection but also most likely to be infected. For any vaccination campaign it would be difficult to find this vector population, but the virus will find it all by itself. It now seems that this vector population is young people who frequent bars and nightclubs. A bartender in ski resorts can infect hundreds, but he is also most likely to be first infected.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 22 2020 6:59 utc | 42

@ nr 42 through to 54.

I dont know if you are not aware but this is a predominantly English speaking forum, but please take you pathetic postings elsewhere! Moron!

Posted by: Den lille abe | Dec 22 2020 7:09 utc | 43

Keep China down and Russia out is the new cold war meme. China has used globalized trade to pull itself out of poverty. Trump starts a trade war with china backed fully by 5 eyes deep state. China is then hit with a shiny new virus that spreads because five eyes and their subject countries do nothing. It halts international travel and to an extent trade. International travel is a big thing because those that travel to china have a hard time reconciling 5 eyes propaganda to what they find in china. With searches through medical records and retesting bio samples, earliest traces of trumps Wuhan virus show up in Europe. Vaccines appear everywhere - promise on the horizon... and bam, five eyes matriarch has a mutant ninja coronovirus.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 22 2020 7:44 utc | 44

Without the slightest desire to defend the EU, England must recognise that it was the target of a brutal government and media manipulation of the Tories that has brought it to this dire situation. It doesn't even have Trump to dream of a compensatory deal with the US anymore. The looming crisis should open up possibilities for a real left-wing government beyond Jeremy Corbyn.

Posted by: gabriel moyssen | Dec 22 2020 7:46 utc | 45

- Mr. "BloJo" and his gang didn't want a "Brexit Deal" at all. In that regard I wouldn't mind that the UK would re-locate to a spot near the east or west coast of north America.
- Some 60% of all the food the UK consumes comes from the Eurozone. Not only from continental Europe (e.g. France, Belgium, Germany) but also from that country on the other side of the UK called Ireland. And that supply is cut off completely.
- I don't think the BloJo government was aware of the consequences of this one "lockdown move". Neither was the EU.
- What A LOT OF people don't understand is that with the UK leaving, the EU and the UK still can trade but now under the WTO rules.
- I assume that both the UK and the EU will find an emergency solution that lasts for say 3 months that will give both parties the time to negociate a more "permanent" solution for - at least - food imports into the UK.

So, all the "excitement" will be - in the long run - overblown. But the panic - on both sides of the Channel - is - IMO - for REAL.

Posted by: Willy2 | Dec 22 2020 8:01 utc | 46

Virus mutations are typically less lethal than the earlier form of the virus. Serial mutations are most common when herd immunity is being reached.

How does this established science fail to disrupt virus lockdown mania?

Fake science wins again on the panic scale.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Dec 22 2020 8:08 utc | 47

I don't know how fucking retarded you would have to be at this point to believe the UK government's justification for permanent abolition of civil liberties. Like you do know every flu season is a different mutation? This is an unrealistic level of mental impairment from b that requires a quasi-religious suspension of disbelief

Posted by: Red | Dec 22 2020 9:18 utc | 48

Boris does not want no deal, that would be insane. What he would like is free trade with the EU, without following any EU imposed rules. Impossible but sane.

So Boris and any sane person, want a deal. The question is what will the UK accept? Fish is just for the media, no one really cares about it. There is a reason why we sold most of our quota to foreign fishing vessels. The EU deal is pretty good, but also exactly as expected for a trade deal. Without idealogical baggage it would make sense to take it, especially at this late hour and the pandemic ravaging the economy and disrupting logistics.

Otherwise extending the transition period would be good, until the pandemic has abated and go from there. Unfortunately the UK burned down that possibility in the summer and with everyone now on holiday the current deal is at a take it or leave it stage. A sane person would take it and accept the EU drive a hard bargain. I expect Boris to do that as I think that no deal at this time would be insane.

However, insanity appears to be popular in politics these days.

Posted by: Mighty Druken | Dec 22 2020 9:18 utc | 49

@Down South | Dec 22 2020 6:04 utc | 40

The longer a virus goes around generally the weaker it becomes. Lo and behold this is mutating in ways never seen before to become even stronger.

And still, after 9 months, most people cannot think of anything else than take the outrageous claims with no evidence at face value?

These psychopaths are high on power and make it up as they go. It is going to get worse and worse until they are stopped. Already, we are far into the twilight zone.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 22 2020 9:35 utc | 50

@ 23 Arch Bungle

No. Brexit is done-for. The process will be reviewed and this 'convenient' new development will lead to a new referendum. Ultimately when all the fog has cleared there will be no Brexit.

Agree, I see this “mutation” also as a Crisis Maximization effort to initiate a new referendum. Allegedly discovered in September, one ask why it’s reported now and what does it help to close borders on UK now after 3 months.

Btw where are all angry faces and pointing fingers? Why no one condemn her majesty’s government for hiding the development of this British Virus?
Oh, well. Let’s agree it’s Crisis Maximization policy agreed on with EU.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 22 2020 9:36 utc | 51

Hey everybody!

Anyone have any comments about the latest "revelation" in the Navalny "Novichok" case?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/21/europe/russia-navalny-poisoning-underpants-ward/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/21/navalny-russian-agent-novichok-death-plot

I don't know what to think about this? Anyone else? Bernard?

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Dec 22 2020 10:02 utc | 52

The 'elites' don't want Brexit, that is clear after 5 years of active sabotage. It would start to break up the empire's latest creation, the EU. So now they are blackmailing the population with all sorts of state sponsored terror in order to cancel it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 22 2020 10:21 utc | 53

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Dec 22 2020 10:02 utc | 52

I will only say: "Wallace and Grommit - The Wrong Trousers", and leave it at that.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Dec 22 2020 10:23 utc | 54

On the map Britain is that small looking insignificant group of islands off the coast of Europe, on a map we look like bird splatter!
As a nation we’re known for believing our own propaganda / lies, we suffer from delusions of grandeur.
The U.K. public are also very very gullible.
When our right wing government said make ‘Britain great again’ what’s not to like !
It was a lie to get the vote.
The truth ? Sell out the public, and make off with the country’s assets! Yawn ..... you can see the same trick going on all around the world, where ever you see a right wing Govenment. Part of the trick is to give the public a group of people to look downl on and dispise.

Here in Britain our shops are closing down, ditto factory’s,
As a small country the elites know they don’t need 70 mill population !!!
Then right on cue we have corona virus plus ‘apparently’
Virus miss management.
The elite transcend borders. In or out of Europe why would they care ?
Even Boris transferred his wealth out of the U.K. just before he was elected.
The above should be comparable to the US.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 22 2020 10:34 utc | 55

Robert Lindsay @ 52:

The Navalny "poisoning" incident is turning into low farce.

In the meantime the Russians are expected to investigate the circumstances of Navalny's poisoning and to admit that they are responsible for Navalny falling ill on the plane and nearly dying from at least two botched poisoning attempts. How can the Russians do so, when the Germans refuse to hand over materials and information relevant to the investigation, and when the story keeps changing and becomes ever more fantastical?

Posted by: Jen | Dec 22 2020 10:46 utc | 56

Just to put the boot in !!
Post Brixit we were planning to do deals with the US. (Be worried be very worried)
Both governments are now totaly and absalutly controlled by zionists, no matter which party is in control.
If you want a deal it’s ——-
You get your zionest to contact our zionests and we can do a deal.
Think about that for a while, an then be scared, very scared.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 22 2020 10:56 utc | 57

@Liberty Blogger

How does this established science fail to disrupt virus lockdown mania?

Because it's not about science, it's about mass control politics. When you realize this is simply a coordinated coup d'etat (at least in the West) then that's the start point of any discussion about this 'crisis'.

Posted by: maradonut | Dec 22 2020 11:18 utc | 58

@maradonut | Dec 22 2020 11:18 utc | 58

Exactly right. The crisis is deep and severe, but it has nothing to do with science. It is a political coup following the ongoing economic collapse. Now that the empire has run out of 3rd world countries to crush and rob, it has turned on its own populations.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 22 2020 12:29 utc | 59

@glasshopper 5

Well, the owner of the site presents cogent arguments that you can rebut if you think they dont make sense. He references and links to his evidence.

You should feel free to make a case if you disagree. I dont agree with all the points the owner of the site makes. But his collection and organisation of evidence and arguments helps me form my own view.

Does that help at all?

Posted by: Harry | Dec 22 2020 12:54 utc | 60

From the news, it appears the major players in the EU are trying to make it a miserable go for England.

I hope the limeys don't relent to this terrorism.

B calls them snobbish. I don't think he understands the word.

But let me get this straight: all the non-Londoners that voted for Brexit are the snobs?

The Non-Londoners!?! What does that make the Londoners?

They are only snobs in that they resent not having their own country to love anymore. This same phenomenon is sprouting all over Europe.

b's political bias is a major blindspot. He can not see what is coming and what must come.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 22 2020 13:42 utc | 61

In the meantime the Russians are expected to investigate the circumstances of Navalny's poisoning and to admit that they are responsible for Navalny falling ill on the plane and nearly dying from at least two botched poisoning attempts. How can the Russians do so, when the Germans refuse to hand over materials and information relevant to the investigation, and when the story keeps changing and becomes ever more fantastical?

Expected by whom??? Exactly......????

If Navalny is a convicted felon..... out on parole..... Russia should put out a red notice on him... and demand his return to russia for the purpose of completing his sentence... or.... destroy him in his house together with his family.... at 0200....

And..........

Dare NATO to do anything.....!

While.............

Cutting off all gas transit to NATO..........

Let them buy LNG........

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Dec 22 2020 14:15 utc | 62

@ 61 (NemesisCalling) Re:


"b's political bias is a major blindspot. He can not see what is coming and what must come."

Perhaps you could elaborate? Some testable predictions would be useful.

Posted by: MarkU | Dec 22 2020 14:36 utc | 63

OT: Robert Lindsay @52 Re: Navalny farce

Didn't the Germans say they found the Novichok on Navalny's water bottle? Now Russians trolling Navalny said they put it in his panties. How did the Novichok get from Navalny's panties to his water bottle?

On second thought, maybe it's best not to think to deeply about that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 22 2020 14:39 utc | 64

@61 NemesisCalling

Brits are getting a good hard lesson in you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's stupid to make selfish decisions when one is on top, coz you're blinded by myopic exceptionalist arrogance. So this hot mess rightist Brits created for themselves trying to stick it to their lesser neighbors means they'll have to negotiate for humble pie and this outcome couldn't be better scripted.

@50 Covid is a Hoax Norwegian

No, no, no. You got it all wrong: YOU make things up as you go along.

**********

Cue the threads' in-house rabidly misogynistic, barking dog; one-trick Tannenhouser, who will now predictably appear hot on my tail cursing and frothing at the mouth.

Run for cover, Mark2! 😆

Posted by: Circe | Dec 22 2020 14:49 utc | 65

The EU is, increasingly, Germany and its satraps. Germany dominates the EU.
It is just over a century since the British government, which had blockaded Germany throughout the First World War, insisted that the armistice, signed in November, did not include an end to the economic sanctions which kept food from getting to the hungry Germans until 1919. The blockade was extended so that German representatives had no alternative to agreeing to accept the humiliating Versailles treaty.
None of which has anything to do with the satisfaction- schadenfreude- with which some nationalists in Germany view the prospect of food supplies running low on the western coast of the North Sea.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 22 2020 14:56 utc | 66

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 22 2020 9:36 utc | 51


@ 23 Arch Bungle

No. Brexit is done-for. The process will be reviewed and this 'convenient' new development will lead to a new referendum. Ultimately when all the fog has cleared there will be no Brexit.

Agree, I see this “mutation” also as a Crisis Maximization effort to initiate a new referendum. Allegedly discovered in September, one ask why it’s reported now and what does it help to close borders on UK now after 3 months.

What all these smart political commentators seem to forget, that simple folk like myself who labour crushed at the bottom of the hierarchy remember daily is this simple rule:

"The Powerful Will Have Their Way"

By this governing principal it can be foretold that Brexit will never happen. A thousand miracles will appear in the skies above, but the powerful will have their way in the end. No votes will change this ... after all, when has a vote ever changed a political system?


Btw where are all angry faces and pointing fingers? Why no one condemn her majesty’s government for hiding the development of this British Virus?


The angry faces are everywhere, they're in the majority, but their voices are edited from the cameras and the newspapers (haven't you noticed that it's mostly "somebodies" doing the talking in the media, rarely "nobodies"?

Take a walk in the streets, speak to the sweeper, the garbage collector, the bus driver ... they all know what's going on. They're all angry. They're all irrelvant.



Oh, well. Let’s agree it’s Crisis Maximization policy agreed on with EU.

Speaking of Crisis Maximization, you'd better bend over and lube up for 2021:

http://static.demilked.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/5ee08c4476f2b-5edf2a994b1c9_0qolv2k4dx251-png__700.jpg

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2020 16:04 utc | 67

Some strange comments on this thread

@MK 4

I'm sorry but you are simply wrong when you say that the city of London wanted Brexit. You cast this as a conspiracy to screw over the little guys but actually almost every single large corporation, bank, financial institution and media outlet (except a few print papers) was lobbying hard for remain and, after that, the softest of Brexits. Brexit was a result of the little guys not listening to these "experts". You can debate about whether this was wise or not but, if you want to do that,
1. Realise this is a long term decision. Not many of these actually get made nowadays! If you come back next year or the year after, and tell me Brexit has been a disaster I'm going to tell you to come back in 2040 and then we'll discuss it.
2. Whats so friggin great about the EU anyway?! Many of us believe that the only stable long term outcomes for the EU are either full political and monetary union (for which there is zero prospect of a democratic mandate, anywhere, so that sounds a lot like dictatorship to me) or breakup. Who wants to be riding on that train?

Finally, and believe it or not, Brexit does not mean that the vast majority of people in the UK have any negative feelings towards the peoples of Europe or even their national governments. Our beef is with the EU. We wish you the best and respect the right of your leaders to refuse to make a deal with us - but we want out anyway.

Posted by: Maff | Dec 22 2020 16:05 utc | 68

One mutation is claimed to "increase how tightly the protein binds" to the ACE2 receptor, and one mutation "has been found in viruses that eluded the immune response in some immunocompromised patients"... panic time!

The assumptions being made that require this to add up to the end of the world are almost as convoluted as believing that the flu will recede and go extinct if people only transmit it between their closest friends and relatives every day.

(And, who cares how many hospitalized people get fully-sequenced strains in well-funded pockets of the planet - most people don't even get diagnosed with it.)

The intent is to control the underclass and exploit the spoils of disaster capitalism to every corner of the world. I hear Palantir is profiting from helping to take over the narrative in the UK.

Posted by: k | Dec 22 2020 16:49 utc | 69

Thanks guys, this Navalny Novichok BS keeps getting stupider and stupider.

First of all, an FSB agent is so stupid as to answer the phone from someone he doesn't know and has never heard of and spill the beans about the whole plot. I'm sure that intelligence agencies must have safeguards against enemy spies spoofing and pretending to be the agency's own people. No intelligence agency is that stupid, and the FSB is one of the best.

Next, has anyone noticed Putin's reaction. Putin basically laughed and said, "Trust me, this guy is as insignificant as an ant. He's not even worth going to the trouble of poisoning," which is what we had hypothesized all along.

Has anyone else ever noticed the giveaway in all of these endless NATO, US, and British false flags against Russia, Syria, etc. (mostly Russia) is that the story keeps changing? When something actually happens, the story doesn't usually change with the breeze. But in these provocations, lies, and false flags, the story changes every few weeks or so.

So far, Navalny was poisoned:


1. At the breakfast table in the airport in Russia
2. On the plane
3. Next, in his water bottle in his hotel room before the flight
4. And finally now, in his underwear!

Remember the man who invented Novichok said:

It was made to be lethal, as lethal as an atomic weapon. It was never used anywhere and set aside for history. A normal dose that would always be used, is the size of a grain of salt. It kills the victim and anyone around him within minutes.

Navalny's symptoms did not resemble those of Novichok poisoning at all. In addition, even if Navalny had taken 1/200th of the standard dose (and no one would do that), his pupils would have been pinpointed when he woke up in the hospital, and they were not.

The Russians ran a huge toxin screen and found no toxins. Yet somehow the Germans run an even fancier screen that includes "Novichok," which they find.

Also recall that a high-ranking Polish official called the Germans to ask what was up with the Navalny Novichok thing, and he was told it was a fake attack done to implicate Russia in a depraved crime (most false flags have this M.O.). As I recall, the phone call was recorded by the Russians and played on TV.

In addition, this "attack" came mysteriously right before the negotiations were to be finalized on the final length of Nordstream in Germany, out of which much Russian gas will flow and which they US is trying frantically to stop.

You guys are right. Nothing adds up.

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Dec 22 2020 16:52 utc | 70

Oh, one more thing: Source for all of this is Atlantic Council (NATO) and CIA cutout "Bellingcat," who has "scooped" one fake story after another for his imperial paymasters. Nuff said!

And I'm almost certain that if this guy had Novichok on his underwear, he'd be dead.

LOL Putin joked, "And besides, if we had done it, we would have killed him." No shit.

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Dec 22 2020 17:03 utc | 71

@68 to Maff,
A reaction from the continent. The eu is a nondemocratic colossus, morphed from the post war trade deals between north western European states. When there is a election, they will be held till the majority gives the desired vote. The undemocratic expansion is forced by her protector the us, to pay for the expenses and prepare for the nato occupation. There is a majority in the Netherlands to change the eu or,when impossible, to leave. This will never have the support from the government or the EU-controllers. The Brits had a change to leave and took it, in north western europa this change is gone if it ever was there, and the people will perish with the eu. So i wish you a bon voyage and congratulate you with your freedom.

Posted by: gary | Dec 22 2020 17:47 utc | 72

I wouldn't be certain it will be No-Deal. All deadlines have been ignored so far. They may ratify ex post facto. It depends on the conditions. UK apparently made a major concession over the fish, but at first view not enough for the EU. EU in no way wants to create a bitter conflict, so will always agree to extend the negotiations.

The French have agreed to reopen the border

France to reopen UK border for French and lorry drivers

It wasn't surprising. A complete closure couldn't last more than a couple of days. Britain would be out of fresh food. The 48 hours may have been a warning from Macron that the situation is really delicate for Britain, and some realism is needed from the Brexiters.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 22 2020 17:47 utc | 73

Maff @ 68. Thank you for your clear statement of how the majority of we Brits feel about Brexit. I agreed with every word. It will also take years for our divided society to pull together with one purpose. That will take new leadership which we’ll get sooner or later. In the mean time it will all come out in the wash.

Posted by: Phil Espin | Dec 22 2020 17:51 utc | 74

Posted by: gary | Dec 22 2020 17:47 utc | 73

Pro-Brexiters have fantasies that get more and more bizarre, very, very similar to Trump's dreams that he will be staying in the White House. The last 48 hours have demonstrated clearly how weak Britain's position is.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 22 2020 17:52 utc | 75

i am beginning to wonder if the genetic string in the vaccine is designed to cause viral mutations?


B has not posted my stuff lately, but as I said in the beginning over and over again.
vaccination will not fix the pathologic virus problem. Because the virus mutates and the history of the mutation of this virus strongly suggest foul play.

What is needed is a way to prevent infection, a aerosol or chewing gum that can kill the virus or attach to the virsus so that it cannot infect human cells. Viral Infections are usually functional unless and until the virus can gain entry into a host human cell and use the gut of the cell as its food, and replicate inside of the host cell and then burst that cell open and release it replicons into the intercellular spaces.

Wrong = vaccination <==> right find and use an anti infection material..

Posted by: snake | Dec 22 2020 18:07 utc | 76

Dr George W Oprisko@ 35
Why would you put me in the same basket as grasshopper?
He is a sinophobe.

I was agreeing with Atreides @7 takedown of grasshopper who is a frequent commentor at Zerohedge.

But thanks for the laff.

Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2020 18:56 utc | 77

@68 Maff

You cast this as a conspiracy to screw over the little guys but actually almost every single large corporation, bank, financial institution and media outlet (except a few print papers) was lobbying hard for remain and, after that, the softest of Brexits. Brexit was a result of the little guys not listening to these "experts".

Agree, this is also my observation specially after Corbyns expulsion out of Labor leadership.

What you should keep in mind:
German Left have 2 defections, one regarding Zionist Apartheid regime where they stand neutral if not positive thus defining themselves out of Left values worldwide, the other, regarding EU where they until recently have been mostly positive. Both these defections are explained (by them) as lessons from their history (how could one be so wrong?).
Bernhard just reflecting one of these defects in his analysis, the one toward EU.

I think what happened in UK was not planned by the capitalist government and they try to reverse it by any means just like what they have been doing in Norway since the second referendum.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 22 2020 18:57 utc | 78

So we have killed off the “Sweden did not lockdown and it was fine” BS, and now we have to deal with the “viruses dont get worse when they mutate” BS.

The Spanish Flu (at the end of WW1) second wave was much worse than the first wave! so bye to that BS, what will the trolls next choose?

https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence

Posted by: Roger | Dec 22 2020 19:25 utc | 79

@ NemesisCalling | Dec 22 2020 13:42 utc | 61.. i am not following you regarding b's blind spots.. do you want to elaborate??

@ Maff | Dec 22 2020 16:05 utc | 68.. thanks maff.. i stand corrected... i thought the city wanted brexit.. it appears that is wrong...

Posted by: james | Dec 22 2020 19:58 utc | 80

From our good friend Bill Gates

https://campusreform.org/?id=16463

Posted by: 2+2=5 | Dec 22 2020 19:59 utc | 81

I would'nt have thought that a socialist sympathizer would be an enthusiast for the "level playing field". The neo-liberal Thatcherite freedoms of the single market have led to much unemployment in Europe. Freedom of capital and freedom of labour work to the benefit of transnational corporations and much to the detriment of ordinary working people. Much of the liberal left in Britain now insists that we must remain locked in to this neo-liberal straight jacket. https://www.thefullbrexit.com/quit-single-market

Posted by: WastedTalent | Dec 22 2020 20:11 utc | 82

@ Jon_in_Au (54)
I loved the Wallace & Gromit films as a kid. Bit I digress.
I'm not sure what connection there is to be made with The Wrong Trousers, unless it's only the name you're thinking of.
From what I'm aware 'pants' in British English is what we in the US refer to as underwear - that is being discussed.

Small detail: Gromit's name has only one M.

Posted by: Josep | Dec 22 2020 20:43 utc | 83

@wastedtalent,

They are the fake co-opted “left”, it all started with Kinnock in the 1980s and went downhill from there. What is needed is a real industrial policy, trade protection, and competition for firms at home. This will never happen in the UK, as Tony Benn found out in the 1970s when he was blocked at every turn.

It’s also why the Chinese will never give in to demands to get rid of their development state. Japan gave in and has never recovered.

Posted by: Roger | Dec 22 2020 20:53 utc | 84

@ james | Dec 22 2020 19:58 utc | 80 who wrote
"
@ Maff | Dec 22 2020 16:05 utc | 68.. thanks maff.. i stand corrected... i thought the city wanted brexit.. it appears that is wrong...
"
Maff qualified their claim with the "almost" adverb "all" and provided no linked backing or specifying the "corporation, bank, financial institution and media outlet" camps. I still believe that The City of London Corp wanted Brexit, but silly me, I still think those that own global private finance run the West/world.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2020 21:22 utc | 85

85

I'd say you're both correct. Several banker types have profited nicely on Brexit so far. Others clearly have not or stand to lose out. Rees Mogg is an excellent example of the Brexit disaster capitalist lackey.

For long time I viewed the city as homogeneous, but the last five years have taught me otherwise.

The question I have is was it always like this (well concealed), or is it another side effect of the west turning in on itself?

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Dec 22 2020 22:01 utc | 86

james @Dec22 19:58 #80

... i thought the city wanted brexit.. it appears that is wrong...

How could you forget Theresa May's Brexit foot-dragging? The British establishment want cheap labor and to maintain the supremacy of the City of London. And USA want UK in EU to help control the EU.

Was Theresa May a good prime minister?

  • Anonymous

    1. Lied 108 times that we would leave the EU on the 29/03
    2. Forced her Hard Remain dressed as Brexit fudge on her original Brexit team.
    3. Trying to force it 3 times on Parliament.
    4. Worst loss in British political history for any PM
    5. Lead the first government to be held in contempt of Parliament for 200 years.
    6. Promised to continue working towards the target of immigration in the tens of thousands, only to sneak off and sign the UN Global Migration Pact.

    ... I don’t hesitate for a split second to say she is even worse than Tony Blair for lying, and that’s really saying something. Oh and by the way, I’m a life long Conservative voter, although I didn’t vote for her the last time, I could smell a rat the second they put a remain voter in charge. The rat is now out in the open for everyone to see.

  • Charles Hancock

    Against even the wishes of her cabinet, Mrs May kept UK in EU. First, by delaying the triggering of Article 50 by 9 months then a further 8 months afterwards, exacerbating uncertainty further. She cost £16 billion in cash alone and much more in lost opportunity. She has divided the country.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 22 2020 22:08 utc | 87

So much nonsense spread about the origins & meaning of brexit when any objective analysis reveals it to be inspired by and funded by the exact same gang of elites who caused the englander civil wars of 1642–1651 and who rule england now just as they have since the 11th century AD.

Most are taught that the Civil War was because England had a king, Charles Stuart who was a catholic. Well as we have seen here and now eg Syria, turning an economic conflict into a religious one is a quick and easy way to motivate the masses which is essential to generate sufficient cannon fodder to keep a war running.

The real problem with england's Charles 1 isn't that he was a catholic, it was that he was a scot who brought much of his Scots' court with him when he moved South.
That didn't only remove a big chunk of the usual englander elite from decision making, it also meant that when the King wanted something done be it a road a bridge or other public works contractors familiar to the Scots' court were used and that took money out of the pockets of the 'usual suspects'. In other words this was very serious. As an aside it was during the reign of Charles 1 that all the anecdotes about sots' miserliness were created, most likely as an attempt to force the monarchy to spread gold from taxes among more englanders.

So the englander landed gentry who felt they were left out in the cold began a pamphlet campaign, which spread all sorts of rumours about perverted catholic rituals occurring at court. That began to crank up the hoi polloi. The printing press was relatively new at the time and pamphlets were a new media back then a way to 'talk directly to the people'. The fact that the 'talk' was all lies & fake news should surprise no one who saw the tosh being spread among the englander population by the likes of nigel farage etc., who is working for the descendants of the same landed gentry that cranked the civil war.

The EU has always been an anathema to england's ruling elite for exactly the same reasons a scots king was 350 years ago. Too much decision making was happening in Brussels and worst of all too much business was being awarded to 'foreign' corporations.
One only has to consider the dodgy deals the Johnson government has done with old buddies during the covid pandemic to see how this government is ardently returning all tax expenditure to the 'old boys'. In fact it has got so bad that even Tory womanhood's ladies have been forced to blush .

This aristo controlled brexit is what Johnson has been aiming for his entire working life. Remember Johnson first came to public attention as the Daily Torygraph's 'Brussels Correspondent'.

As the premier conservative newspapers' man at the EU, Johnson promoted all sorts of tosh about such nonsense as rules on the bendiness of bananas or that the EU was planning to use army engineers blow up Berlaymont, the EU's Headquarters building.

These barrows of bulldust inevitably made their way into tabloid rags such as englanders' Daily Mail, where drongos swallowed them avidly as 'the gospel according to Boris'.

There are some around here who consider themselves lefties and who cheer on brexit as a way of combatting the worst evils of neoliberalism, they will be disappointed when england's decision to flee the EU results in even lower rates of pay for workers, less workplace health & safety plus increased imports of cheap labour (albeit highly policed to the point of slavery) from 'Commonwealth Countries'. It will be great for the slavers, BooHoo Clothing will be able to bring their factories back outta Pakistan and into the england midlands once more.

This is what the fight over the level playing field has been about. England's elite refuse to be tied to minimum standards of working conditions and want the right to not only decline any changes EU nations may make for things such as paid maternity leave, the definition of 'casual' work etc, they want to be able to wind conditions back to the Victorian era, believing that this time they know how to beat any further attempts to organise labour.

The sad thing is just like the Civil War which ended after Cromwell's death with a Stuart being put back on the throne, but firmly under the control of the ruling elite, brexit will end with the average englander shitkicker in a much worse place than they were before.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 22 2020 22:16 utc | 88

@ psychohistorian | Dec 22 2020 21:22 utc | 85 // Some Random Passerby | Dec 22 2020 22:01 utc | 86 // Jackrabbit | Dec 22 2020 22:08 utc | 87

as i said @ 13 in support of the poster MK - "it seems to me as another poster pointed up up above @ MK - it is the financial centre of the uk (tied at the hip with the federal reserve and of course the uk-usa never miss a chance at war for money) that in all likelihood are the winners in this game of predictable outcomes... boris the clown is the perfect leader for such a time as this.. "

when @ 66 maff posted what they said, i went and looked at maps of the brexit vote and how it was split up. here and here , but since you all have a viewpoint worth reconsidering, i am reconsidering it again!

didn't boris the clown run on a leave vote?? didn't corbyn say he was going to explore the options?? it seems a majority wanted to leave, not stay... i just can't imagine the financial centre london wanting something that would not benefit them... and i can't see them not winning in an msm publicity campaign... and i can't see boris getting the poll position and etc. etc. if the financial sector wasn't behind it - which was all my original viewpoint - but i am willing to entertain the idea of i have it wrong... this is the nice thing about being open minded - you can be wrong too! please continue to try to enlighten me! thanks..

Posted by: james | Dec 22 2020 22:32 utc | 89

What is needed is a way to prevent infection, a aerosol or chewing gum that can kill the virus or attach to the virsus so that it cannot infect human cells. Viral Infections are usually functional unless and until the virus can gain entry into a host human cell and use the gut of the cell as its food, and replicate inside of the host cell and then burst that cell open and release it replicons into the intercellular spaces.

Such an agent exists..... It has a known mode of action.... It is proven in study after study....

This agent is Zn+ to stop transcription of the viral genome within the cell cytoplasm

Another agent is Ivermectin.... Ivermectin stops transport of Viral proteins and viral RNA into the nucleus.

Necessary is an ionophore... HCQ.... Quercitin.... to transport the Zn+ into the cell so it can do it's work.

Helpful is Vitamin C... and Vitamin D...

In India a company has assembled a blister pack containing Ivermectin, doxycycline, and Zinc in sufficient numbers to prevent / treat COVID-19. Cost $2.85 USD...

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Dec 22 2020 23:00 utc | 90

James it was a very large majority that wished to leave.
And this is entirely consistent with the history of the EU and its predecessors (The Common Market): the Irish also voted to leave, then, after great pressure and an almost unanimous front including almost all the political parties and fire threats of retribution, the vote was reversed.
In France and the Netherlands where the EU's neo-liberal constitution was put to a vote it was defeated in both countries. In this case though, as I recollect, the matter of approving the Constitution was simply taken out of the electorate's hands. The barely revised rejected constitution was then approved in the form of a treaty which of course was not put before the electorate.
The reality is that the EU is both a stalking horse for Washington and a hedge against democracy. It is a neo-liberal project established to ensure that private property should not be threatened by a potentially egalitarian electorate. It is essentially anti-democratic a recreation of the Hapsburg empire complete with parliaments/talking shops without sovereign power and directed by unelected commissioners.
This month's New Left Review has a marvelous article-some 19000 words long, by Perry Anderson which reveals the EU's nature in great detail. I gave a link a week or so ago.
The problem with much discussion of this matter is that it is a subject on which a radical socialist and a conservative banker can both agree that the EU is a bad thing. I, a radical socialist, because I believe that the state must take control over the commanding heights of the economy and ensure that such horrors as homelessness and poverty are ended. The conservative financier because he believes that the City of London, which he and his class have defended from socialist regulation over the years, ought not to be controlled by bureaucrats in Brussels or the European Central Bank.
The millions of working class Englishmen and women who voted to leave the EU anticipated that the procedure of doing so would be orderly, sensible and transparent. They were not voting for Boris and his banker friends but for a revival of manufacturing, progressive taxation, nationalised, rather than profit taking, utilities and natural monopolies and a restoration of trade union and civil rights, the right to strike for example.
The truth is that the world is a very big place and there are plenty of countries who would eagerly embrace offers from the UK to enter into trade agreements formal or informal: Venezuela, Cuba and Iran all spring to mind. But Russia and China are also obvious potential partners. And what such countries have in common is that they would not seek to interfere in the UK's internal politics and to dictate the limits within which political parties there can operate. In this they differ from the EU, joined at the hip with NATO which is always under US command. We have just seen in the surgical defenestration of Jeremy Corbyn and his replacement by a Zionist member of the Trilateral Commission how the EU/US axis, acting through the tame media and employing the agency of the swollen security establishment (where the first loyalty is to the Empire and Washington), arrogates to itself the right to decide just how far the British people will be allowed to go.
In this matter that means that they will, at a pinch, be allowed to leave the EU but that the Special Relationship (US Occupation) is sacrosanct and NATO is forever.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 22 2020 23:10 utc | 91

- Right. If british companies want to export to the EU then they still have to follow EU regulation(s). For those companies nothing will change.

Posted by: Willy2 | Dec 22 2020 23:28 utc | 92

james @Dec22 22:32 #88

But .. but .. but ... enlighten me!

Theresa May's failure to stem the tide meant that BoJo had to embrace it. They certainly weren't going to let labor take the reins! BoJo doesn't necessarily want to actually make Brexit happen but to steer the Brexit ship to a safe harbor (a harbor that is safe for the establishment). Brexit must be show to be impossibly complex and burdensome to achieve while every attempt is made to appear to make it happen.

In that vein, it's not surprising that France's shut down of traffic to Britain has raised concerns of food shortages after Brexit. OMG! Have we burnt our EU bridges?

You may have noticed that several commenters in this thread have voiced skepticism that a Brexit will actually happen. In fact, there has been such skepticism on every Brexit thread.

As bevin describes @90: the history of EU referendums has been anti-democratic. Until Brexit, the EU establishment has never take "No" for an answer. TINA! is a fat lady that never sings.

Hope you are well supplied with popcorn.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 22 2020 23:39 utc | 93

WTF has happened to MOA? four times I have attempted to post and four times after preview and correction then post my post disappears, yet all sorts of rightwing claptrap appears here day after day. Yesterday screeds of spam stayed up for hours. WTF has happened to MOA? no money in truth just fake news now b?

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 22 2020 23:47 utc | 94

Re Bevin at 90
"A very large majority wanted to leave". Rubbish. Look at the tiny % who won
"The Irish wanted to leave". And stay with UK ???? Never happened. Are you mad. More rubbish.
It goes downhill after that.

Posted by: Boindub | Dec 22 2020 23:48 utc | 95

Wow. The two countries who recently gave the finger to globalist agendas - US and UK now Covid pariahs. What are the odds.

Posted by: Jezabeel | Dec 22 2020 23:52 utc | 96

Last f..kin time I think I have some notes here for the 5th time how/why the brexit scam.

So much nonsense spread about the origins & meaning of brexit when any objective analysis reveals it to be inspired by and funded by the exact same gang of elites who caused the englander civil wars of 1642–1651 and who rule england now just as they have since the 11th century AD.

Most are taught that the Civil War was because England had a king, Charles Stuart who was a catholic. Well as we have seen here and now eg Syria, turning an economic conflict into a religious one is a quick and easy way to motivate the masses which is essential to generate sufficient cannon fodder to keep a war running.

The real problem with england's Charles 1 isn't that he was a catholic, it was that he was a scot who brought much of his Scots' court with him when he moved South.
That didn't only remove a big chunk of the usual englander elite from decision making, it also meant that when the King wanted something done be it a road a bridge or other public works contractors familiar to the Scots' court were used and that took money out of the pockets of the 'usual suspects'. In other words this was very serious. As an aside it was during the reign of Charles 1 that all the anecdotes about Scots' miserliness were created, most likely as an attempt to force the monarchy to spread gold from taxes among more englanders.

So the englander landed gentry who felt they were left out in the cold began a pamphlet campaign, which spread all sorts of rumours about perverted catholic rituals occurring at court. That began to crank up the hoi polloi. The printing press was relatively new at the time and pamphlets were a new media back then a way to 'talk directly to the people'. The fact that the 'talk' was all lies & fake news should surprise no one who saw the tosh being spread among the englander population by the likes of nigel farage etc., who is working for the descendants of the same landed gentry that cranked the civil war.

The EU has always been an anathema to england's ruling elite for exactly the same reasons a scots king was 350 years ago. Too much decision making was happening in Brussels and worst of all too much business was being awarded to 'foreign' corporations.
One only has to consider the dodgy deals the Johnson government has done with old buddies during the covid pandemic to see how this government is ardently returning all tax expenditure to the 'old boys'. In fact it has got so bad that even Tory womanhood's ladies have been forced to blush .

This aristo controlled brexit is what Johnson has been aiming for his entire working life. Remember Johnson first came to public attention as the Daily Torygraph's 'Brussels Correspondent'.

As the premier conservative newspapers' man at the EU, Johnson promoted all sorts of tosh about such nonsense as rules on the bendiness of bananas or that the EU was planning to use army engineers blow up Berlaymont, the EU's Headquarters building.

These barrows of bulldust inevitably made their way into tabloid rags such as englanders' Daily Mail, where drongos swallowed them avidly as 'the gospel according to Boris'.

There are some around here who consider themselves lefties and who cheer on brexit as a way of combatting the worst evils of neoliberalism, they will be disappointed when england's decision to flee the EU results in even lower rates of pay for workers, much less workplace health & safety plus increased imports of cheap labour (albeit highly policed to the point of slavery) from 'Commonwealth Countries'. BooHoo Clothing will be outta Pakistan and back in england's midlands where they kicked off.
This is what the fight over the level playing field has been about. England's elite refuse to be tied to minim standards of working conditions and want the right to not only decline any changes EU nations may make for things such as paid maternity leave, the definition of 'casual' work etc, they want to be able to wind conditions back to the Victorian era, believing that this time they know how to beat any further attempts to organise labour.

The sad thing is just like the Civil War which ended after Cromwell's death with a Stuart being put back on the throne, but firmly under the control of the ruling elite, brexit will end with the average englander shitkicker in a much worse place than they were before.
The left has been knocked out of the ring by fake anti-semitism & the Keir Starmer wannabe aristo will be keeping Labour split & out of power for decades, exactly as planned.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 22 2020 23:59 utc | 97

Debsisdead | Dec 22 2020 23:47 utc | 93: " after preview and correction then post my post disappears..."

Happened to me a lot also, mainly on longer posts where I was working in the comment box for a long time.

Then I realized that the comment composition box has a 'time-out' feature.

So what I always do now is just before I hit the 'Post' button, I copy the entire comment box content so I will have comment saved to clipboard, and can immediately replace it if it gets lost due to the time-out.

Then I refresh and paste the clipboard saved comment copy back into the new (blank) comment box.

Posted by: gm | Dec 23 2020 0:12 utc | 98

The runaway train that was BrexShit finally gets to the end of the tracks to crash and burn as it was planned to.

Unknown billions spent on MSM and AltMedia narrative manufacture and management. The aim of bridging of the Red/Brown invented factions. The fake leftists and rightists, many of whose commentators populate discussion boards btl at most Indy and fake Indy sites, most are agent provocateurs.
It is easy to spot once one knows the tell tale or even tale telling they do. You know who I talk of - when you see a consistent anti EU message by self proclaimed ‘socialists/Marxists AND the self proclaimed Libertarian/anti globalist types. There are whole sets of such memes.

The pushing of all the ancient buttons of mob mentality.

The imposition of politically motivated Austerity to create the root unhapppiness and the fault for that being laid on the EU.

All being the petrol soaked fire to create the smoke behind which vote fraud can be covered.

Yes the Brexit referendum was fixed by postal vote fraud.

As was the Scottish Indy referendum as a precursor - it would have been impossible to fix that after Brexit. Because there would have not been anyway of thinking the pro EU Scots would have not voted unanimously for Independence to rejoin/stay in the EU. No one would have believed the polls or the fix.

Watch as the blue monkey troll army attacks those assertions.
—————

A hard BrexShit was the calculated option from decades ago. As soon as the British veto could not be used to stop the EU’s evolution into a mature and ever closer Union with a Level Playing Field for all members under a common independent Court, that is the final supranational arbiter.

BrexShit is the Ancient Pathocracy breaking away, causing max damage on the way out, as the Anglo American Imperial Project comes to the end of its multi century hagemony. The Money that built it and owned it and the monarchs and the wars and conquests, the Capitalist/Anti Capitalist philosophies, the fake economics and hidden Truth of Money and Public Tax and Spending and National Debt - all LIES. All that thes self proclaimed Great Wizards built is like the Roman Empire, in decline and fall. BrexShit is just one front of consolidation (retreat) and continued existence (survival), in vain as is usual throughout history.

The plan for Britain of these wizards and their psychopathic minions (the ‘elected’ and the other technocrats? To turn it into the new Shanghai/HongKong on Thames - the seat of all these who made untold riches out of exploitation of Asia/Pacific and ruled the world with their fortunes. By expanding their ancient Seat. The Square Mile has been bigger than that already for a longtime. They have long planned to expand it. A creation of a new state within a state, just like the Vatican. Money being their ancient God (even has a name - Lud) with its web of money laundering, tax avoidance, legal exceptionalism for the Old Money and the New and a control over the whole inter banking and settlement systems; the World Bank and co - the poisonous fruits of BrettonWood that has been shoved down the throats of the rest of the world forever like so many geese being fattened up for livers to be consumed.

It is OVER. But like phantoms or Zombies - they refuse to believe they are dead dead dead. They have even stopped hiding in the background and have taken over high offices themselves.

They refuse to believe that A New Empire is coalesced and stronger daily and as the EU and the new trading blocs evolve into combined international Rules base common economic and security goals; It is burning down the Breton Woods! Using the structures set up to control these old peoples and their lands. The 5+1 eyed Gollum Empire can only threaten to burn it down themselves! A bit like the retreat from Atlanta! Or demented late era Caesars.

What a great time in the history of the World to be alive! As the human condition finally breaks free from the ancient Slave and Money Owning Pathocracy.

Onivar!

Posted by: DG | Dec 23 2020 0:45 utc | 99

@ bevin | Dec 22 2020 23:10 utc | 90.. thanks bevin.. it see it that way pretty much as well.. the whole thing is undemocratic... i can't see the little people benefiting from any of this.. and the monarchy is an anachronism and yet it continues on...

@ Jackrabbit | Dec 22 2020 23:39 utc | 92.. well it is indeed a circus no doubt with the little person pulled every which way.. i think they know what they are doing and it essentially amounts to screw the little guy... it has always worked before, so why would now be any different?? i wouldn't mind some popcorn right about now! thanks..

@ 96 debs.. interesting perspective and a historical one too.. thanks..

@ debs - listen to what gm suggests @ 97.. that is what i do and it works for me...

@98 dg - i like this quote from you.. i hope you are correct in that..
"BrexShit is the Ancient Pathocracy breaking away, causing max damage on the way out, as the Anglo American Imperial Project comes to the end of its multi century hagemony. "

Posted by: james | Dec 23 2020 1:19 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.