Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 04, 2020

Trump Claims Election Fraud, Says He Has Won

WaPo:

With millions of votes yet to be counted, President Trump falsely asserted election fraud, pledged to mount a legal challenge to official state results and made a premature claim of victory.

Weird to have popcorn for breakfast ...

Posted by b on November 4, 2020 at 8:14 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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H.Schmatz #255

your quote from Rafael Poch, US´Qing Syndrome:-

There is nothing in China like the military-industrial complex of the United States that structurally fosters militarism and imperialism with its powerful “lobbies” and think tanks. The mandarins of the United States are prisoners of a network that greatly complicates their adaptation to the new world. Its powerful and efficient propaganda apparatus (“information & entertainment”) presents the United States' two-headed, single-party political regime based on the money aristocracy as a democracy.

That is really well put.

"The mandarins of the United States are prisoners of a network that greatly complicates their adaptation to the new world"


Exactly that!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 3:34 utc | 301

Should have tried harder to get to sleep. My tired brain caused me to misinterpret all of the 538 vs. DecisionDesk stuff.

Sorry about that. It is immaterial to the fact that the data was and is WRONG and that it has since been corrected and that PCR is also still basing his opinion on a flawed premise, but indeed 538 was who published the initial graph/map which was picked up by all the aforementioned actors and RT'd several times. 538 is in fact where the source linked to by PCR got their information. SOOOO ... 538 got the data from results.decisiondeskHQ.com and published the graph/map. I mistakenly got the AP mixed up in the process when they were never involved.

I apologize for any confusion, even though what I said other than falsely attributing the graphic to AP, is still correct. The whole thing is a nothing burger that won't die.

I'm also sorry for taking up so much space with my own little meaningless conversation with MYSELF. LOL

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 3:35 utc | 302

Nevada will put Joe Biden over for the Presidential win..
Tonight.. Now the question is. How long will Biden last until Harris becomes the Queen of Spades of Pentagon?

Posted by: Nick | Nov 5 2020 3:38 utc | 303

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2020 3:32 utc | 299 300 election don't count comments not one comment about the future of America?

That's because we discuss that the other 364 days of the year. Today (well, yesterday) is election day (and probably for the next three months.)

As to your list of recommendations: I agree with a lot of them (except getting painted black, of course). Since none of them are going to happen, why bother? I could put up a list of my anarchist demands which would be even more radical - and just as likely to be done.

One I've always favored is pass a law that any government employee who knowingly lies to a US citizen (or the media) is instantly fired from office and can never hold office again. Of course, you'd have to prove "knowingly" - but since their job is to know any facts they talk about to the US citizenry, that shouldn't be too big a hurdle. Bingo! Whole government gone by Tuesday before lunch.

Sarah Frostenson FiveThirtyEight Nov. 4, 10:30 pm

Meanwhile, Georgia, which has turned out to be a really competitive race (less than a percentage point separates Trump and Biden), is still at 95 percent of the expected vote reporting, but almost all of Georgia’s counties where the vote is outstanding are blue counties, like Fulton (Atlanta). However, according to a Georgia elections official, as of 8:30 p.m. ET, Biden needs to win 64 percent of the outstanding vote to overtake Trump. That might prove a tall order, but this is definitely the closest toss-up state we’ve seen in this presidential race — compared to, say, Ohio and Iowa.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 3:43 utc | 304

@ uncle tungsten

I usually find myself in good alignment with you but not this time. Your insistence that mail-in voting is ok is purely your own opinion.

In my view, mail-in voting is ok when the voting is not highly emotionally charged, but not when the opposite is true. For example, I voted a few times in Australia with mail-in voting and I do believe that my vote was handled appropriately. The good check that my vote arrived was that, almost uniquely to Australia where the voting is compulsory, if my vote was not processed then I would have received a $50 fine. So in a normal election - no issue.

However, when Australia had a referendum on recognising gay marriage, I never even got my ballot envelope in the mail. I asked a few of my neighbours and neither did they. It was not hard to work out that enterprising gay activists went around as soon as the mail was dropped in, picked it up and made “my vote” count towards their win.

The only thing I wonder is why is it always those self-declared “progressives” that are ready to engage in any kind of fraud necessary. I do not care who wins the US election because nothing will change. But this clear pattern of “progressive” behaviour is of concern. How can I live in the same society with the “too progressive”? This is what many US people will be asking themselves after this election, how to live in a society in which the only rule is that there is no rule for you once you declare yourself a “progressive”.

Posted by: Kiza | Nov 5 2020 3:47 utc | 305

The guy at the source of the whole kerfluffle acknowledges that the 130,000 magical votes Tweet was based on incorrect data

Whew. Man I really worked myself through a ringer on that one. But I'm impressed with the transparency of the first guy that used the incorrect info. Even after he corrected himself Trump and others continued to Tweet it as though it was fact and Twitter has blocked or suspended those accounts and Tweets (including Trump's). IMO THAT should be the big story here: Twitter, IG and FB have completely abandoned any pretense of transparency and balance. I mean, what if Trump and the others really hadn't seen the retraction yet? You're going to de-platform them based on a simple MISTAKE? That's a bigger story to me than the false claim of 130,000 Biden votes.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 3:50 utc | 306

Remember: If Trump loses Georgia, Biden has at least 269 Electoral College votes. He'll only need one more (unless Arizona flips back to Trump).

From New York Times journalists over at the New York Times Georgia results page:

Stephanie Saul, in Atlanta 16m ago
The margin between Trump and Biden continues to narrow in Georgia. As of 10 p.m., Trump was leading by just 33,300 votes. Counting is continuing in the Atlanta metro region.

RSH NOTE: Nate Silver FiveThirtyEight Nov. 4, 10:13 pm
Trump’s lead in Georgia is now down to 31,748 votes, per Decision Desk HQ.

Patricia Cohen, in New York 39m ago
In Georgia, 38 percent of voters characterized themselves as moderates. Of that group, 64 percent said they voted for Biden, while 34 percent said they supported Trump.

Trip Gabriel, in Butler County, Pa. 53m ago
Almost all of Georgia's counties with appreciable outstanding votes are tinted blue on the map. This is why the White House is reportedly nervous about the state.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 3:56 utc | 307

Biden notably exceeding HRC's margins rural PA (low bar, but it's the trend). Dave Wasserman seems to think it's over based on that and vote trends in the rest of the state.

Posted by: Schmoe | Nov 5 2020 3:57 utc | 308

@Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 3:35 utc | 302

It would sure be nice if Twitter/Instagram/Google YT wasn't wholesale deleting/censoring/evaporating the free exchange of speech, data, and knowledge sources they did not approve of on their controlled e-media monopolies, so that we could openly share/examine them together and finally settle some of our arguments/misunderstandings.

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 3:58 utc | 309

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 3:58 utc | 309

Agree. See my follow up on that at Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 3:50 utc | 306

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 4:00 utc | 310

=> uncle tungsten | Nov 4 2020 20:23 utc | 204

It's too bad you have no idea what you are talking about. This election methods stuff is very important. It's very, very bad to get it wrong.

Please refrain from suggesting things when you have no clue whatsoever what you are doing.

The common people will pay the price if you insist on parroting the feckless, domesticated election method theorists. Time to give it some real thought.

Posted by: blues | Nov 5 2020 4:12 utc | 311

Twitter allows up stuff that fits/supports their desired narratives and outcomes. Are they still globally blocking the Biden laptop family graft revelations etc?

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 4:14 utc | 312

@blues #22

Instant Runoff Voting would ne better. Along with verifiable paper ballots.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 4:35 utc | 313

''The USPS union is pro Biden..''

The workers are not, but the leadship is.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 4:38 utc | 314

@26

''Internet voting can also be made at least as secure as your bank account, eh?''

Nope. That's not an option. Election fraud would be undetectable.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 4:42 utc | 315

RE: gm | Nov 5 2020 4:14 utc | 312


See? Twitter is cool with allowing this posting by David Litt, former Obama speechwriter, *today* 5:34 pm Nov 4 of a democrat ballot "curing" (post Nov 3 ballot harvesting) assistance operation in Georgia over the next three days (Wed, Thurs and Fri)

https://twitter.com/davidlitt/status/1324117440297639940

"About this event

Attention everyone in or near Georgia: We need YOUR help today! This race is not over and we need every single vote to be counted.

It is all hands on deck and all eyes on Georgia!

Join us today for a virtual training to learn how to knock doors to help voters cure their ballots. We need you in this fight with us today and tomorrow and Friday. We've come so far, this is how we bring it home. See you in the virtual training room and out knocking doors soon!"

And this is legal??? Under Georgia law?

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 4:57 utc | 316

"The guy at the source of the whole kerfluffle acknowledges that the 130,000 magical votes Tweet was based on incorrect data"

-Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 3:50 utc | 306

I'm not so sure about this, _K_C. His explanation for the late night MI Biden vote bump "kerfluffle" still smells sketchy to me. Given the stakes, could someone have gotten that guy to "flip" his statement after the fact?

See this from tonight's Tucker Carlson show:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/trump-legal-adviser-jenna-ellis-discusses-magical-138000-michigan-biden-votes-appeared-nowhere-middle-night-video/

PS: you will note that all the Twitter post links to the data/details in the story were evaporated by Twitter.


Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 5:35 utc | 317

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 3:34 utc | 301

It is an excellent article, I was quite surprised since that level is not attained in the colonies and unfortunately Europe is a colony and Spain is a colony of the colony, in spite of half a billion Spanish speakers and growing. Here is the link to the whole article in Spanish, a machine translation might do.

https://rafaelpoch.com/2020/11/03/el-sindrome-qing-de-estados-unidos/

Posted by: Paco | Nov 5 2020 6:10 utc | 318

Politico.com has an election map that shows the remaining battleground states as Nevada, Georgia, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania.

Biden only has to win Nevada (6) to get to the magical 270.

But if Trump then won Georgia (16), North Carolina (15), and Pennsylvania (20) then its possible that a single faithless elector could mean that the race is decided by the U.S. House of Representatives in a state-by-state (not individual representatives) - a vote that Trump would likely win.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 5 2020 6:10 utc | 319

Can anyone explain this?

https://mielections.us/election/results/2020GEN_CENR.html

Last updated results from the office of the Secretary of State of Michigan.

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 5 2020 6:12 utc | 320

Hmm, I tried to explain this technically but it got too complicated. I have lived and voted in quite a few different countries - many do not insist on citizen only voting, they figure that if you live in a community you have a right to vote to determine among other things, how your taxes are spent.

Anyway most nations pride themselves on having an independent, politically neutral public/civil service. Does that work 100%? No but often enough that if a partisan does get slotted into the top gig in some government organisation, the scam gets exposed by other staff - mostly nothing much happens except citizens find out & watch.

The notion of trying to slot a partisan appointee into the independent electoral commissions which run voting in nation (often the same mob is tasked with overseeing local government, state & national elections, not to mention unions, & industry representation organisations) is alien. Commissioners are generally selected from known to be neutral senior bureaucrats.
Isn't 100% foolproof - no but I would say from observation that it is greater than 90% free of dodgy carry-ons & if some creep gets caught putting their finger on the scales the punishment is severe - people in most countries outside amerika expect election bodies/boards/commissions to be independent & get v. angry if that is shown not to be the case - even when the political organisation pulling the stunt is one they may support, because they know something like that can swing both ways.

If a gang of pols can get in by cheating everyone loses, including those who support the party doing the cheating. If a party can win by cheating they do not have to listen to anyone, they can do what suits them then rig the next election.

So I have no doubt that every now and again a few votes maybe 1 in a million probably more like 1 in a billion votes are not kosher, but there is an audit trail so anything dodgy can get sorted, the acceptance of crookedness in a poll as being normal is only tolerated in amerika.
I s'pose I could labour the point with talk of "which country forces 'democracy' on everyone else", but I reckon most people get that.

Until amerikans force a change to their political culture from the grass roots up by agreeing en masse that getting an honest result is far more important than getting the result that they most favour, the farce that is the quadrennial amerikan prez beauty contest is bound to continue.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 5 2020 6:14 utc | 321

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmA6sulXgAEUNZM?format=jpg
... In all seriousness, from the first day's events, it's just like an ordinary US post-election day - only the one day will take a whole week to finish because the mail ballots are counted later, and they're a significant portion due to Corona.

Posted by: Ishmael | Nov 5 2020 6:21 utc | 322

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 5 2020 6:12 utc | 320

Nope, can't explain that at all. Other than to say that if I was voting in Meatchicken, I would have voted for Rocky De La Puente and the "Natural Law" party. LOL, sounds like a fun group.

gm - Hmmm, well I'm pretty sure that even the first guy who Tweeted it didn't have any reason to retract unless it wasn't true and the retraction Tweet is still up with the graphic that matches the ones from Decision Desk HQ.

Here's what I still want to know - DID 538 use the Decision Desk HQ data for their own graphic? If not, where did THEY get the same info that was allegedly (and I do believe them for now) a typo by Decision Desk HQ?

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 6:24 utc | 323

Kiza #305

The only thing I wonder is why is it always those self-declared “progressives” that are ready to engage in any kind of fraud necessary. I do not care who wins the US election because nothing will change. But this clear pattern of “progressive” behaviour is of concern. How can I live in the same society with the “too progressive”? This is what many US people will be asking themselves after this election, how to live in a society in which the only rule is that there is no rule for you once you declare yourself a “progressive”.

Thank you Kiza, for postal voting experiences gone bad I guess once bitten twice shy. If I had your experience I would vote in person at an early voting place. I know your experience is not the only one but the alternative for personal certainty are available. I have had a deeply engaged political life and I am familiar with many of the dishonest practices that people can stoop to at elections indeed I have been at the front of prosecuting mendacious players.

Your point referenced above though is one of the conundrums of human nature that is a great annoyance/disappointment. I have met and worked alongside many 'assumedly progressive' people who are narrowly so. Scratch the surface and some green blood emerges as they spit some deeply disgusting prejudice or two. Some people have to work with me and I am prejudiced against private finance capitalism. But I would never stoop to the dishonest preferring instead to apply reason and voice in my defence.

I am aware that within the gay activist community you will find good willed progressive people but they are accompanied by many totalitarian leaning individuals who lack any semblance of progressive view. Progressive on one issue only. I would not put any thing past them in their attempt to assert their dominance. But we have worked together on environmental issues or a wealth of other worthy social causes calmly and easily - knowing full well of the gulf in certain matters. That's coalition building for common good.

Broadly on the USAi election outcome - I too have zero confidence in either party to act with solidarity toward its people. There is a mighty remote chance that progressive members of the Congress or Senate might be able to assert influence and achieve passage of some beneficial legislation. Either President though is way out to the repugnant fringe so I expect veto from that office toward anything good. Unless they can hold defence spending hostage in exchange. Now that would take some willpower in the USAi.


blues #311

That is ridiculous and clearly you have no argument or logic to offer.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 6:33 utc | 324

Of course, it's only another USA 'election'. It's not like anything real is happening.

However, Joe Biden is unacceptable. Even by Trump standards.

Posted by: blues | Nov 5 2020 6:37 utc | 325

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 5:35 utc | 317 Given the stakes, could someone have gotten that guy to "flip" his statement after the fact? See this from tonight's Tucker Carlson show

You're going on speculation and a Trump legal adviser? Seriously?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 5 2020 6:10 utc | 319

And the bunny pokes his head up! Concerned you might get it lopped off? LOL Just kidding.

Your point about faithless electors is well made. If you've viewed the Greg Palast interview on Jimmy Dore, linked above, you'd know even worse could happen - and probably will.

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 5 2020 6:12 utc | 320

Not sure. Biden had 2.7 million votes according to the AP, that page only shows 2.2 million. Trump had 2.6, they're showing 2.3. No idea what's going on there.
Maybe it has something to do with the Trump lawsuit to stop the count there. Or someone just screwed up. Or they haven't certified the AP totals yet. Maybe someone else has an idea.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 6:41 utc | 326

debisdead,

Until amerikans force a change to their political culture from the grass roots up by agreeing en masse that getting an honest result is far more important than getting the result that they most favour, the farce that is the quadrennial amerikan prez beauty contest is bound to continue.

It's more than just the political culture. It's the national culture and it's borne of the exact type of ethos embodied by Trump and his supporters (but also the DNC and their chosen candidates).

*Win, at any cost.

*If you ain't cheating you aren't trying (see: NASCAR and SEC football).

*Weekly, monthly and quarterly profits trump any long-term growth plan as long as you can get yours while the getting's good and get out (helps if you can kick the ladder out from underneath you afterwards).

It's a culture of rampant hypocrisy.

*Charles Koch (arch libertarian) to Friedrich Hayek (Austrian arch laissez faire, antigovernmental economist) "Use medicare and social security!"

*Ayn Rand (libertarian demigod and architect of the modern American libertarian facade) to the U.S. government "Where's my welfare? Oh, here it is, Thanks!"

*Literally hyper-conservative/libertarian group taking tons of COVID stimulus money and loans despite years of rhetoric and lobbying to end social safety net programs and justifying it by using some of the most twisted logic imaginable.

*Wall Street bankers and other claimed opponents of "moral hazard" taking massive taxpayer money (though much of it is just printed up as the Fed sees fit) and accepting a government bailout after the most recent pre-COVID financial crisis (created by them, not the CRA or black people forced into sub-prime loan).

The list goes on and on, and it ends (for now) with the biggest hypocrite of them all: Donald J. Trump. Only in the warped minds of American far-right conservatives can a guy with a history of failure, default, refusal to pay his debts, and literally never admitting he was wrong - EVER - ascend to the highest echelons of power in the faux-meritocracy of the United States of America.

Thing is, the Demorats are the "good cop" in the scene while the Rebubbas are the "bad cops" - each playing off the other to continue and enhance the racket. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have each been eager participants in the process. It's a national mental disease. And the people who pay the price while the uber-rich laugh their way to the bank (and off-shore tax shelter) are the taxpayers. As designed, just like it ever was.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 6:41 utc | 327

gm #316

Thank you for that post. !! vote curing? wtf does that mean? I have never encountered that word in ballot circumstances. Are people voting still even after the close?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 6:45 utc | 328

=> uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 6:33 utc | 324

It's not all that complicated if you have any common sense.

Rank choice voting (RCV/IRV) (defeated in Massachusetts) entails massive information traffic, easily tampered with. Also Individual ballot editing (election officials are permitted to move your votes around on your individual ballot if any candidate is 'eliminated').

But with simple score voting, the votes are simply added up. (But fancy election method theorists never worry about security, just lame ass theory.) Same as it ever was.

Posted by: blues | Nov 5 2020 6:57 utc | 329

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 6:41 utc | 327

I should add, the rejoinder is also flaccid easily debunked nonsense.

Hypocrisy by "the left" in America is summarized by:

*Bernie Sanders owns more than 2 houses

*AOC wears fancy outfits that were given to her and has never worked a day in her life

That's almost literally it. The rest of the "leftist" figures as painted by the right (the Clintons, Obama, Biden, Kopmala, etc.) are not even remotely leftist or "progressive". They're corporate owned aspiring ascendants to the oligarchy by way of politics instead (or and then because) of money. 90% of Democrats in the national Congress are millionaires IIRC. Sad thing is being a millionaire isn't even that hard anymore. Doesn't require much work. Just a trust fund, luck with property speculation or getting rich on an IPO or stock buybacks. Point is - I agree with Gruff's comment last night. There IS NO LEFT in the United States of America. But the right is so desperate and so mean spirited that they paint anything to the left of Ronald Reagan as arch-communists and literally will not listen to a single thing they say regardless of merit because the environment is one in which your political opponent is not just a rival, but a blood thirsty enemy looking to DESTROY your way of life and relegate you to a communist gulag. That's not even an exaggeration. It's how the American right talks. Period.

Again, same as it ever was. Why I moved TF out of there. Americans don't realize how toxic they have become. And it's going to end badly.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 6:58 utc | 330

RE: "Can anyone explain this?

https://mielections.us/election/results/2020GEN_CENR.html "

- Posted by: Lozion | Nov 5 2020 6:12 utc | 320

a. We are living in a giant media/deep state simulation?

b. Trump has bitch'in kompromat on MI SoS?

--------------

"Nope, can't explain that at all. Other than to say that if I was voting in Meatchicken, I would have voted for Rocky De La Puente and the "Natural Law" party.

-Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 6:24 utc | 323

Nah...steer clear of him...might be one of them 'drinking society' Poor-- err-- Proud Boys from the looks of him.

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 7:00 utc | 331

Err. bitchin', for the 1960's So. California-speak challenged

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 7:11 utc | 332

snake @ 299

What future? The American economy is going to collapse regardless of who is president. That $1.4Quadrillion derivatives Death Star is going to blow regardless of who is president.

With Trump as president by bringing back the supply chain to the US you would have a base to rebuild the country with. If he loses there goes America’s only chance to recover from the collapse,

Biden has never done and never will do a thing to bring back manufacturing jobs and so with him it will be a complete collapse with no base to recover with. The chances are excellent that in such a case the US will even break up into 4/5 different parts as each region decides to fend for themselves.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 5 2020 7:17 utc | 333

Paco # 318

Thank you for urging me to translate and read that entire article.

It is a valuable and informative and erudite assessment. I will pass it on to many in my network too.

Barflies will find it of high value.

I hope the next President/Congress/Senate can find some modality more grounded, less hysterical and calm in their foreign relations. May they find some representatives with intelligence and sage speaking to cool this USAi ignorance down. They are within the trap and it will take some smart oratory and to spring the jaws - I am not confident.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 7:17 utc | 334

Wa Po is total garbage. Why use that as a source? Election fraud is normalized in the US and it really comes out at a presidential election time but political machines in this country have always used election fraud to maintain power throughout history and there are countless examples. Wisconsin has a 90% turnout which is banana republic numbers.

Irregardless of that Trump is toast because this type of fraud always goes unpunished. As the world turns the media will lose their rating driver punching bag and go back to endorsing the god like qualities of a Democrat administration.

Harris will obtain her Brahman god like status as Biden twaddles in the background letting the state bureaucracy run policy. We might end up with Hillary as Secretary of Defense. It would serve the Pentagram right.

Biden will be like Reagan but Harris is no George Bush or Dick Cheney. What a facade of fakery.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 5 2020 7:17 utc | 335

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 5 2020 7:17 utc | 335

As a non-fan of the Demorat party or any candidate, I'm inclined to agree that the election is a sham.

But your you to say this:

Irregardless of that Trump is toast because this type of fraud always goes unpunished. As the world turns the media will lose their rating driver punching bag and go back to endorsing the god like qualities of a Democrat administration.

After personally witnessing ONLY Republican fraud and vote suppression from 1990 to 2016 in the U.S. I have to say you're wrong. Not only that but you provide ZERO links or evidence. I've been busy trying to get to the bottom of SEVERAL allegations here and doing so in good faith. But like many Trump fans (not just supporters, fans) you come in and level very serious accusations of fraud and bad faith WITHOUT any links or examples.

Hate to say but it's pretty typical of the American right and their acolytes at this point. What do you have to back up any of that? I am asking genuinely.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 7:26 utc | 336

I think the main question to ask yourself is: Are you democratic?
If on election day you are asked to count the votes, and you find that you have in your hands the ballot that will give Trump victory in your state, are you going to count that ballot? Or are you going to crumple it, and throw it away?

Posted by: passerby | Nov 5 2020 7:29 utc | 337

Richard Steven Hack #326

Maybe someone else has an idea.

I will attempt that. Perhaps these machine counters are simple devices that process a tray full then present a count on a display and a clerk writes down the number. Then the next batch is put through. Assuming they are sorted first into candidate groups then that might be ok. But is you have a rogue operator then a batch of the 'other candidates' ballots could be slipped across.

There are ways of crude parity checking that might reveal tens of 1000's in discrepancies: either weighing cartons of sorted ballots on scales or a rough linear measure of bundles etc.

All the above is predicated on the possibility that some fair player is making certain by processing the initial count twice and doing random observations of ballots in sorted piles to be satisfied of reasonable performance by sorters.

Perhaps a figure was posted and then a stuffup was detected and a repeat count was done to get it right thus causing a steep glitch in the chart. Are cctvs in use for court records etc?

I have been on the receiving end of wads of my votes slipped in to a competitors pile. Thankfully my observers were right on to it. Plus I have been observing for others and seen that trick but only for a hundred or so ballots. Mistakes are easy made late at night after long days and mendacity abounds in politics. Its a blend for the finest vitriol.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 7:35 utc | 338

Posted by: passerby | Nov 5 2020 7:29 utc | 337

America is NOT a democracy. Let's get that out of the way first and foremost. Also, as far as presidential elections go, there is zero evidence of Republican votes being tossed out or not counted once they were received and plenty of examples for that happening for Democrat votes.

But once again - what EXACTLY are you implying? You seem to think that there is ANY (much less several important) counties/precincts where the Democrats have the ability to utterly compromise the vote. Which are they? No specifics again.

I'm sick of this nonsense that ONLY Democrats steal the vote when in the past 30 years the Republicans have done it twice, verifiably, and the guy that benefitted is responsible for EVERY American military engagement abroad other than Syria and Libya (although he laid the groundwork for both and Wikileaks has exposed it).

Are you democratic? NO. Not if you believe in the fixed and easily fixable American system of electing presidents.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 7:36 utc | 339

@335
The 90% Wisconsin turnout number you present is generated using a different method than Wisconsin uses to measure turnout. Using the same formula as used in the past, instead of a formula cherry-picked to make it look like election fraud took place gives the following numbers...

2000 - 67%
2004 - 72.9%
2008 - 69.2%
2012 - 57.8%
2016 - 67.34%
2020 - 73.12%

Still a high turnout, but not ridiculously so. As a Wisconsinite I can say that both Republicans and Democrats were (rabidly) enthusiastic this year.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 5 2020 7:36 utc | 340

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//
What future? The American economy is going to collapse regardless of who is president. That $1.4Quadrillion derivatives Death Star is going to blow regardless of who is president.

With Trump as president by bringing back the supply chain to the US you would have a base to rebuild the country with. If he loses there goes America’s only chance to recover from the collapse,

Biden has never done and never will do a thing to bring back manufacturing jobs and so with him it will be a complete collapse with no base to recover with. The chances are excellent that in such a case the US will even break up into 4/5 different parts as each region decides to fend for themselves.
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well now that's a tad harsh. I see it as simply drawing apart, like an over-sauteed tenderloin.

It won't be pretty.

Posted by: blues | Nov 5 2020 7:43 utc | 341

Down South #333

The chances are excellent that in such a case the US will even break up into 4/5 different parts as each region decides to fend for themselves.

Great response comrade. I can see Macron orchestrating a colour revolution in the south while Erdogan foments a colour revolution in California. Maybe the Swedes will give a try in the north. That would focus the USAi mind.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 7:44 utc | 342

_K_C_ #330

"Americans don't realize how toxic they have become. And it's going to end badly."

Amen to that and all that you said. SAD

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 7:49 utc | 343

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 7:44 utc | 342

Yup. Downsouth has no idea what he's talking about. Very Aussie right-wing pro American 5-eyes hyperconservative from what I've seen.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 7:49 utc | 344

#285 suzan

Thanks for your interest.I was wondering if english native speakers would be able to tell one willie from the other.

Your previous advice to snake I did notice and I agree to it completely,about snake's comments;that need spacing to be readable.A problem that sometimes gets me as well.cheers.Never mind who wins.

America is the great pretender.They pretend to have paid visits to the moon.They pretend to be attacked by terrorists.They pretend to back democracy all over the world.Now they pretend to have an election.

But over the years,and with the generations changing past and present narratives,the whole world can see how americans lie to themselves.Not have a credible presidential candidate for a long time.Not be able to organize a federal election on a federal level.

As oldhippie pointed out:every county has its own electoral and counting system.Don't you ever feel ridiculous being american,yo'all americans?Can't you have just a tiny little bit of admiration for the chinese with four times your population,and having an well-organized society,or at least working up to that?

Posted by: willie | Nov 5 2020 7:50 utc | 345

After personally witnessing ONLY Republican fraud and vote suppression from 1990 to 2016 in the U.S. I have to say you're wrong. Not only that but you provide ZERO links or evidence.

Both sides do it. I never said the republicans don't. Look up the history of political machines in the US. Chicago Daley machine, Tammany Hall in NY, The Byrd Organization, Huey Long's machine, and many more...

https://www.americanheritage.com/political-machine-i-rise-and-fall-age-bosses

So if one calls signature verification of ballots suppression, or cleaning uf voter roles as people move and do not unregister from their previous location as suppression or even providing a legal ID to register or vote a suppression then guess what? You open up avenues to cheat.

A few years ago LA county had more registered voters than people. That is data driven earmarked voters where a party can cheat. The Democrats do a much better job of cheating, they always have.

https://mielections.us/election/results/2020GEN_CENR.html

And what about that link?

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 5 2020 8:00 utc | 346

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 5 2020 8:00 utc | 346

Saw it, no explanation for it. Don't care until the final tallies and court cases are decided.

I will note that your major allegations come without links. LA County for one.

But let's be real - it's baked into the USA system - minorities (aka non land-owning white males) have their votes systematically suppressed. Do you agree or disagree, and if the latter, provide links showing that it's all just progressive hand waving.

Also, which Democrat Presidents have been the result of voter fraud or manipulation in the past 30 years.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 8:05 utc | 347

KC @ 344

It is easy to dismiss my opinions as the ramblings of some hyper conservative Aussie. lol Not so easy to dismiss the Saker’s

Simply put, and unlike the case of 2016, the outcome of the 2020 election will make no difference at all. Caring about who the next puppet in the White House will be is tantamount to voting for a new captain while the Titanic is sinking. The major difference is that the Titanic sank in very deep water whereas the “ship USA” will sink in the shallows, meaning that the USA will not completely disappear: in some form or another, it will survive either as a unitary state or as a number of successor states.

http://thesaker.is/does-the-next-presidential-election-even-matter/

Posted by: Down South | Nov 5 2020 8:20 utc | 348

What's happening with Zerohedge today? Where normally there are 100 to 1000 comments on most articles,they collect 30000 up to 280000 today.Is it a side effect of election-rigging by IT experts?

Posted by: willie | Nov 5 2020 8:24 utc | 349

KC @ 344

The US political system is both non-viable and non-reformable. No matter what happens next, the US as we knew it will collapse this winter, PCR is right. The only questions remaining are:

What will replace it? and
How long (and painful) will the transition to a new USA be?
Trump in the White House might not make things better, but a Harris presidency (which is what a “Biden” victory will usher in) will make things much, much worse.

https://thesaker.is/reconsidering-the-presidential-election/

Posted by: Down South | Nov 5 2020 8:29 utc | 350

Posted by: willie | Nov 5 2020 7:50 utc | 345 -- "America is the great pretender.They pretend to have paid visits to the moon.They pretend to be attacked by terrorists.They pretend to back democracy all over the world.Now they pretend to have an election."

Nice one, willie.

They pretend that a lone shooter exploded JFK's head.
They pretend that Building 7 fell due to nearby fires.
They pretend 'mission accomplished' and ran away.
They pretend that Assad must go.
They pretend that the Talibans must go.
They pretend that Crimeans did not vote to join Russia.
They pretend that Guido is the president of Venezuela.
They pretend that Joshua Wong is a student protestor.
They pretend that they can contain 21st Century China.
They pretend that they can contain 21st Century Russia.

The show is only starting. Get more popcorn.

p/s -- This is not gloating, but framing reality in ways
that just might open up a couple more American eyes.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 5 2020 8:31 utc | 351

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 7:35 utc | 338

That pretty much is my assumption. Absent evidence of foul play, it's probably some procedural issue that will be sorted out later. It's also quite possible that the AP got the numbers wrong for similar reasons.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 8:52 utc | 352

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 4 2020 19:27 utc | 185 -- "Only a massive revolt by a citizenry united in Solidarity will provide the upheaval required to genuinely change the USA. And as this election shows quite well, such Solidarity won't be arrived at anytime soon."

And the level of discourse on this blog shows quite well that the citizenry, those I call Main Street America, are not ready: they are asleep.


Posted by: snake | Nov 4 2020 18:55 utc | 177 -- "Americans just watch as crime after crime against humanity is regularly perpetrated by false misleading periodic elections."

Love your use of "just watch" in the present tense. Americans are asleep. They watch, but do not see, which is karlof1's lament. Not to worry, America won't wake up next 50 years. We wdn't be around by then.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 5 2020 8:55 utc | 353

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 5 2020 8:00 utc | 346 So if one calls signature verification of ballots suppression, or cleaning uf voter roles as people move and do not unregister from their previous location as suppression or even providing a legal ID to register or vote a suppression then guess what? You open up avenues to cheat.

Suggest you look at the Greg Palast interview on Jimmy Dore if you want to see how cleaning of voter roles is used explicitly to disenfranchise people of color and others. Read Palast's book while you're at it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 8:58 utc | 354

According to AP, Trump's lead in Georgia has dropped down to less than 30,000 - 22,567. Again, if Biden wins Georgia it's over - unless Arizona flips back to Trump.
Nevada remains frozen with Biden leading.
Trump continues to lead in North Carolina and Pennsylvania - but his lead in PA has dropped to 164,418 as Biden continues to pick up votes.
Biden's lead in Arizona is down to 69,000 or so with votes still being counted. Trump could flip Arizona.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 9:07 utc | 355

Re: https://mielections.us/election/results/2020GEN_CENR.html

"And what about that link?"

-Posted by: circumspect | Nov 5 2020 8:00 utc | 346

The entries for Michigan's presidential and senate races show ~81/83 Michigan counties as having reported their final vote totals so far. I did a little checking, and the 2-3 remaining outstanding counties with significant unreturned final vote count #s are

(1) Antrim Co.(~23K population, [mostly a mix of woodsy/farming rurals and affluent summer home owning republicans] NE of Traverse City. Coincidently Dem Governor Gretchen Whitmer's vacation home is located in Antrim Co. [Elk Rapids] https://www.9and10news.com/2020/05/26/gov-whitmer-addresses-antrim-county-cottage-and-boat-controversy/ );

(2) Wayne Co (~1.75M pop., Detroit central city area; ~40% of precincts still 'counting'), and

(3) Genessee Co. (pop ~400K, Flint city, 22% of precincts' results still out).

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/michigan-election-2020-live-updates-results-polls-vote/6128372002/ Updated 9:24 pm ET Nov 4.

So Wayne Co is the big laggard in turning in their vote tallies, just like back during the 2018 mid term election. Looks like Dem machine is following the same playbook as back then.

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 9:26 utc | 356

There I thought Biden was low energy but in Michigan he's even getting the dead to vote for him. What a motivator!

Posted by: Jezabeel | Nov 5 2020 9:26 utc | 357

What in the holy fuck is with the count freeze?

I didn't remember this back in 2016, this is clear irregularity, if the Dems win, they win, why this freezing?

Posted by: Smith | Nov 5 2020 9:30 utc | 358

kiwiklown #353

Love your use of "just watch" in the present tense. Americans are asleep. They watch, but do not see, which is karlof1's lament. Not to worry, America won't wake up next 50 years. We wdn't be around by then.

Well said, Americans should read and analyse Gurdjieff and Ouspensky at school level. They need to get a handle on the concept of waking sleep and a few other subtle things. Not holding my breath.


Circe, how the hell are ya?

I am still waiting for that momentous event you promised/ alluded to with Trump. It is getting late.
Has someone offered him the bottle of burbon and the pistol yet? Maybe he is just in the White House library snorting lines with Nuttyyahoo.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 9:33 utc | 359

The way I read the situation, the Democrats have figured out that Trump's gang are trying to steal it in various states like Nevada (by putting a lot of Sheldon's money in front of these clerks i.e. bribe their way into getting those votes shifted overnight) and are holding back results in places like Pennsylvania and Georgia - to in effect send a message to Trump that if they steal one state's results, they will respond somewhere else. Democrats have Trump around their fingers. Its the ONLY way to deal with Trump and his cabal - I think! And after the Russians hacked machines last time for Trump, mail in ballots was the ONLY way to counter Trump this time. COVID became the perfect cover to expand mail in ballots. One great benefit of decentralized election boards... the key to the power struggles in a functioning Democracy.

Posted by: Ayatoilet | Nov 5 2020 9:33 utc | 360

For those in need of some not so comic relief there is a good story at Strategic Culture on Adam Schiff and the secret protocols of the elders of Moscow.

This is an interesting twist on the old anti semitic nonsense about the elders of zion and it is really a sharp exposure of the evil of Schiff and his scabrous team.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 9:54 utc | 361

Ayatoilet #360

And after the Russians hacked machines last time for Trump, mail in ballots was the ONLY way to counter Trump this time.

You must have your head firmly implanted in your toilet to make that comment. The Russians didn't and wouldn't bother. If USAi have hackable election machines in this day and age - more fool them. The land of Silicon Valley and the 'smartest tech people in the world' and they can't do simple unhackable voting machines. I sure wont be buying any tech with a 'made in USA' label.

No wonder all those foreign countries are buying Russian military technology.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 10:12 utc | 362

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 10:12 utc | 362

I just read this article about Clinton, Gore and Talbot, and how they really blew it when there was a historic chance to integrate Russia into the west. It really touches me since in those years as a student I participated in a joint project USA-Soviet Union, when the wall came down no one would have imagined that instead of a beginning for a new era, lower military budgets, no wars, cooperation and a long list of positive things, everything would turn out as it did, Nato expanding against a no longer enemy and the beginning of eternal war. To hang the label of left to the Democrats is a sinister joke, the Clintons and his ilk are a true disgrace not only for the USA but for the whole world, and it looks like they’ll be back center stage, a catastrophe.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/28/roots-us-russia-crisis-could-lead-us-wwiii-can-doo/

Posted by: Paco | Nov 5 2020 11:07 utc | 363

It's happening, folks - as we wanted and foresaw. Trump supporters are invading vote counting stations in Nevada and Arizona. Yesterday, they tried to invade Michigan's.

Trump will demand a recount in Wisconsin and to stop counting in Michigan.

My guess is there will be a period of latency until the results of Michigan et al officially come out before the shooting and consequent bloodshed begin.

I'm already stocking my Doritos to watch the whole thing.

Posted by: vk | Nov 5 2020 11:24 utc | 364

The more this vote freeze goes on, the more I'm convinced there are frauds.

Literally "froze" state moves closer and closer to Biden in an orderly manner, except Arizona.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 5 2020 11:29 utc | 365

The US have always had problems with election fraud.

Already back in my univercity days, I read about the Kennedy-Nixon contest. Also then I read a paper by a midwesterne colledge professor who sueveyed his students to find out their voting habits....

10 % had voted more than once in the 1992 election... problem being the lack of a centralised voter registration system...

Trump is of cause right to claim fraud... only question is who did more rigging Biden or Trump?

Posted by: Bjørn Holmgaard | Nov 5 2020 11:30 utc | 366

This is an interesting case study on election fraud. What is staggering is just how many people were involved.

Chicago, however, is known for its fires, and there was a roaring one there in 1982 that resulted in one of the largest voter fraud prosecutions ever conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice. The telltale smoke arose out of one of the closest governor's races in Illi­nois history; and as for the fire, the U.S. Attorney in Chicago at the time, Daniel Webb, estimated that at least 100,000 fraudulent votes (10 percent of all votes in the city) had been cast.[2] Sixty-five individuals were indicted for federal election crimes, and all but two (one found incompetent to stand trial and another who died) were convicted. [3]

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/report/where-theres-smoke-theres-fire-100000-stolen-votes-chicago

Posted by: Down South | Nov 5 2020 11:45 utc | 367

snake @ 299 responds to RShack at 304.. The constitution wants the governed to forget their needs and to blindly follow a particular person <=the elected one (in 1788 it was GW) to lead the world in whatever the behind the scene Founders wanted "the elected one (TEO)" to do. In their hearts and deep in their souls, Americans are democrats, they insist on a democracy and resent an unsubscribed top down anything, Americans understand the difference between team man ship and orchestrated Tyranny.

Americans fought a war to eliminate from amongst them, the world's mightiest: a corporate fascist corrupted government (Britain). Powerless Americans overpowered the Tyranny of an overwhelming Top Down, system of dictatorial colonial governance, directed by those Oligarchs and Corporations in control of the British Government. Americans refuse in their hearts, the idea that a Government should be a leg breaking strong man or that those in control should use the power [designed into every government] to terrorize populations, and to deny the democracy <=ancestor Americans demanded. It appears the time to stand up is again approaching. America has need of a new and different government; the current government cannot deliver to those it governs the right of every human to a collective self determined democracy.

Americans should be voting not for a person to manage the government, but rather on the clauses in the constitution and law books that constrain, direct and dictate to those who manage the government how the elected must act, and what they are being paid to do.

No longer should leaderships impose shackles on the liberties of the governed, no longer should a leader be permitted to use a government he or she leads, to force or protect a few from answering for the tyranny, such few have imposed against the many. Government by design is a crowd control weapon and a rules based organization designed to be used by a management team; but the determination of the use of all governments is a decision controlled by the right of self determination. Only those who are to be the governed have the right to decide how the government should be used and what its leaders must do while serving.

No authority exist allows one person or a few <=to use government to criminalize everything, to use courts to abuse democracy, to keep secret anything, to license any part of human endeavor, to use military powers to destroy human life or faraway place infrastructures, to deny transparency to right of passage, to blockade self determination or to deny the essence of independence and freedom to those who are to be the governed. Its not what the governed can do for those elected to power; its not that elections mean more efficient conduct of bigger and better frauds and corruptions, instead it is what those elected to power must and must not do, with the trust the governed bestowed on the elected, while the elected are in positions mankind has trusted them to, that counts. The governed masses make the rules and establish the goals; the elected leaders manage the masses to accomplish the goals. No other arrangement makes sense.

The governed have a duty, clearly recited in the 1776 Declaration of Independence, to mankind, to be sure that the systems of government and the persons who manage them, serve mankind and the not the self-interest of the leaders and not those few hoping to get rich in feudal fashion. Governments, in whatever form, to be legitimate, must serve mankind and must deny tyranny, whenever it appears, in whatever form, because the future of mankind is at stake.

Nearly all of China was trampled on by Japan, Britain, the USA in 1934 onward.. The Chinese villages, towns, farms were destroyed, British weapons killed untold millions, rape everyone in sight, and until the Germans can to the aide of China, China was about to be swallowed up by Japan and its allies. But its people were led by a few through it all to become a powerful and proud nation of many. The story of survival is our history, when will our history be the story of successful endeavor?

Democracy happened in America for the time between 1776 and 1787.. After that it was business as usual.

No RShack I do not accept that none of what was said by Snake at 299 will never happen, but it is obvious the leader to make it happen is not on the ballet today.

Down South @ 333 also answers" What future? The American economy is going to collapse regardless of who is president. That $1.4 Quadrillion derivatives Death Star is going to blow regardless of who is president.
With Trump as president by bringing back the supply chain to the US you would have a base to rebuild the country with. If he loses there goes America’s only chance to recover from the collapse,

snake says, first off there is no American economy, there is a USA economy all balled up in Wall Street and foreign financial markets<= believe me the USA economy and American economies are very different; the latter is just over broke, the former opulent indifference. Hope the collapse you predict happens.. cause it is a good way out..Americans will probably surprise you guys at the USA and related entities. The collapse may afford the governed an opportunity to eliminate copyright and patent monopoly powers. to block monopoly powers and license restrictions <=created by rule of law/ These powers and restrictions have for too long pardon my language" f***ed Americans". Collapse of the financial kingdom known as the USA may help Americans do what they do best; compete and contribute in the open world as humans.

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2020 12:10 utc | 368

Trump predicts "massive Democrat mail-in voter fraud". Trump ends up ahead on election day but then loses once mail-in votes are tallied

GOP = "Trump is a prophetic visionary".

Democrats = "Trump is a con man setting up his scam."

Posted by: malchik ralph | Nov 5 2020 14:00 utc | 369

Re: malchik ralph

Historically, the populations of "prophetical visionaries" and "scamming con men" largely coincide. Perhaps incoherent speech is more visible in the first group.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2020 14:48 utc | 370

Nearly all of China was trampled on by Japan, Britain, the USA in 1934 onward.. The Chinese villages, towns, farms were destroyed, British weapons killed untold millions, rape everyone in sight, and until the Germans can to the aide of China, China was about to be swallowed up by Japan and its allies. But its people were led by a few through it all to become a powerful and proud nation of many. The story of survival is our history, when will our history be the story of successful endeavor?
Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2020 12:10 utc | 368

Dear snake, can you disclose what textbooks provided you with this fascinating narrative that is totally unknown to me, e.g. British weapons killing untold Chinese millions and Germans coming to the aide of China.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2020 15:11 utc | 371

I was under the impression and argued that mail ballots were paper ballots and thus more trustworthy than machines. I have been following democratic Bernie activists who got engaged in election issues in 16' and 20'. They have a youtube channel, ConvoCoach. Turns out mail in ballots are prone to fraud. Jimmy Carter did election monitoring for foreign governments and claimed some time ago that as a rule that mail in ballots are easily compromised. We have a electoral system that we should be embarrassed by. These Democratic activists see fraud. Check this out ... https://youtu.be/MGKQ7tASkLc

Posted by: Frederick | Nov 5 2020 16:38 utc | 372

"Max Blumenthal Retweeted
venezuelanalysis.com
@venanalysis
Country A: archaic electoral college, results take days, lawsuits to stop vote counting

Country B: foolproof electronic vote, lots of audits, encryption keys given to parties, results known within hours

Country A imperial leaders cry fraud about country B. How does that work?"

Posted by: arby | Nov 5 2020 16:45 utc | 373

@ Posted by: willie | Nov 5 2020 7:50 utc | 345

"As oldhippie pointed out: every county has its own electoral and counting system. Don't you ever feel ridiculous being american, yo'all americans? Can't you have just a tiny little bit of admiration for the chinese with four times your population, and having an well-organized society, or at least working up to that?"

I was born in the usa but have not lived my entire life here. So "american" to me means continental, north or south or both; or it is being used as unthinking term to sell/con us exceptionalism to the uneducated or mis or disinformed. I almost did not come back here to live out my life but I felt it irresponsible to run from what I was born into, so settled in a rural area and built a life, trying to set an example of living with nature harmoniously. Became an artisan. Obviously not enough.

The indoctrination here is overwhelming. It is cultural and has been on slow boil for forty years. I benefited from a liberal arts education, now antiquated here, majored in hard sciences but was exposed to much beyond such as, for example, reading das capital in an economics class and the early philosophical manuscripts 1844 in a philosophy class covering western philosophy. And so on.

What Karl Polyani warned against has happened here. The unrestrained forces of market capitalism have infected all spheres of life such that even leisure and home life is tainted, destroyed. Consciousness is ceaselessly assaulted, and conscience rendered inefficient in achieving/competing/winning. Because by the prevalent thinking, others must lose for one to win.

I've much admired eastern thought and practices, even adopted many myself, with mostly positive results. I was around Chinese (and Japanese) people as a child and young adult, being the child of a scientist who collaborated with people from all over the world. These foreign scientists often spent months living in our family home while they were in usa. Also some French scientists.

China brought millions out of poverty and plans meticulously it seems for its peoples' future. Perhaps if we here in the usa could replace lawyers and politicians with authentically educated people, people educated in the arts and sciences as well as right/good governance, there'd be a glimmer of a brighter future for young people today. I'm not optimistic.

Posted by: suzan | Nov 5 2020 20:38 utc | 374

Officials in PA are really pissing me off! This morning the PA Attorney General Josh Shapiro stated the results would come in end if the day.

Now the PA secretary of state is delaying results further!

Wtf?!

There's going to be a presser from Georgia. They better have finished counting those 50,000 plus votes...come on!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 5 2020 22:43 utc | 375

Things are looking really bad for Trump, and he's going to speak at 6:30 p.m. Now you know he's gonna rant and rave and spew bullshit and behave like he's fit to be tied trying to steal the election and Biden's thunder. I'm hearing he's apoplectic.

Meanwhile, I'm bursting at the seams to scream out: IT'S OVER YOU EVIL MOTHERF**KER...IT'S OVER!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 5 2020 23:07 utc | 376

Please, please call the men in the white coats and take that delusional moronic lunatic out of the Press Room in a straight jacket.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 5 2020 23:57 utc | 377

But let's be real - it's baked into the USA system - minorities (aka non land-owning white males) have their votes systematically suppressed. Do you agree or disagree, and if the latter, provide links showing that it's all just progressive hand waving.

Certainly not in California, that is just not the case here today. Historically it was true very recently in the 1950's and 60's. What the Democrats did to African African voters was clearly egregious.

Define current voter suppression tactics. I presume that is requiring an ID or other form of identification of some sort. I used to do that at my polling place. They check my signature and I voted. They really did not need to because we voted at a local polling place. The poll watchers were my neighbors.

I am very familiar with Palasts work and the Republicans do cheat. I never said they did not but people move, people die, people leave the country and they remain on the voter rolls at their old location and they register for their new polling location.

One has to sue the county to get them to look at the data. Some counties fix the rolls automatically and some let the former voters remain. It is an avenue to steal votes.

I could see the Republicans suing in minority communities to purge the voter rolls and not suing in their strongholds. tT is an election tactic and a legal one at that. Democrats do not use that tactic, they have other arrows in their quiver.

Overzealous Republicans cheat and overzealous Democrats cheat and it was deeply baked in the pie of this country from the day it was founded. Do I really need to prove that?

2001 Florida was outrageous and I have always contended that if Gore won the Iraq war would have never happened. Talk about a game changer with a fraudulent election. What no evidence? Look that one up.

Trump loses and I am OK with that. I will miss him mixing it up the the bureaucracy and the media. I can go back to sleep in the next 4 years of a boring administration.

A rundown of some past convictions for fraud can be found here...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf


Posted by: circumspect | Nov 6 2020 2:12 utc | 378

let's be real - it's baked into the USA system - minorities (aka non land-owning white males) have their votes systematically suppressed. Do you agree or disagree, and if the latter, provide links showing that it's all just progressive hand waving.

Certainly not in California, that is just not the case here today. Historically it was true very recently in the 1950's and 60's. What the Democrats did to African African voters was clearly egregious.

Define current voter suppression tactics. I presume that is requiring an ID or other form of identification of some sort. I used to do that at my polling place. They check my signature and I voted. They really did not need to because we voted at a local polling place. The poll watchers were my neighbors.

I am very familiar with Palasts work and the Republicans do cheat. I never said they did not but people move, people die, people leave the country and they remain on the voter rolls at their old location and they register for their new polling location.

One has to sue the county to get them to look at the data. Some counties fix the rolls automatically and some let the former voters remain. It is an avenue to steal votes.

Republicans sue in minority communities to purge the voter rolls doe not sue in their strongholds. It is an election tactic and a legal one at that. Democrats do not use that tactic, they have other arrows in their quiver.

Overzealous Republicans cheat and overzealous Democrats cheat and it was deeply baked in the pie of this country from the day it was founded. Do I really need to prove that?

2001 Florida was outrageous and I have always contended that if Gore won the Iraq war would have never happened. Talk about a game changer with a fraudulent election. What no evidence? Look that one up. It has been long said the Daley machine gave the presidency to Kennedy in 1960. That is history, look it up.

Trump loses and I am OK with that. I will miss him mixing it up the the bureaucracy and the media. I can go back to sleep in the next 4 years of a boring administration.

A rundown of some past convictions for fraud can be found here...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf

Another new law to clean up outdated voter rolls...

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/supreme-court-gives-states-the-green-light-clean-voter-rolls

And the pitfalls...

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/2019-08/Report_Purges_Growing_Threat.pdf

Democrats hate this stuff and Republicans love it.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 6 2020 2:23 utc | 379

@Down South #333

"With Trump as president by bringing back the supply chain to the US you would have a base to rebuild the country with. If he loses there goes America’s only chance to recover from the collapse,..."

Bring back the supply chain? Fantasies won't save the US worker. Trump brought shit back to America. As long as capitalism rules the day manufacturing will go only where it's cheapest.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 6 2020 6:20 utc | 380

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