Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 22, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-92

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

> It was a shock on arriving at the New York Times in 2004, as the paper’s movie editor, to realize that its editorial dynamic was essentially the reverse. By and large, talented reporters scrambled to match stories with what internally was often called “the narrative.” We were occasionally asked to map a narrative for our various beats a year in advance, square the plan with editors, then generate stories that fit the pre-designated line.

Reality usually had a way of intervening. But I knew one senior reporter who would play solitaire on his computer in the mornings, waiting for his editors to come through with marching orders. Once, in the Los Angeles bureau, I listened to a visiting National staff reporter tell a contact, more or less: “My editor needs someone to say such-and-such, could you say that?”

The bigger shock came on being told, at least twice, by Times editors who were describing the paper’s daily Page One meeting: “We set the agenda for the country in that room.” <

Other issues:




> As of August 11, 24 of Kansas’s 105 counties did not opt out of the state mandate or adopted their own mask mandate shortly before or after the state mandate was issued; 81 counties opted out of the state mandate, as permitted by state law, and did not adopt their own mask mandate. After the governor’s executive order, COVID-19 incidence (calculated as the 7-day rolling average number of new daily cases per 100,000 population) decreased (mean decrease of 0.08 cases per 100,000 per day; net decrease of 6%) among counties with a mask mandate (mandated counties) but continued to increase (mean increase of 0.11 cases per 100,000 per day; net increase of 100%) among counties without a mask mandate (nonmandated counties). <

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on November 22, 2020 at 14:37 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Amazing how one side of the Duopoly thinks the other side is living in "an alternate universe".

Choose, consume one side of the manure pile or the other.

I, a Green Voter, thinks the Democratic side stinks the most.

Posted by: librul | Nov 22 2020 14:49 utc | 1

Re: Macron's failed gambit in Lebanon

Maybe it wasn't as much of a "failure" as they would have us believe! (Just as the blast may not have been as accidental as they would have us believe.)

Reposting from comment on Nov 12 (Open Thread 2020-89):

Nothing to see here!

The Hezbollah-backed government resigned after the Beirut blast. Now Lebanon is ready to make deals with Israel (with USA mediating, LOL):

Lebanon, Israel hold second round of maritime demarcation talks

Lebanon and Israel, still technically at war and with no diplomatic ties, launched a second round of maritime border talks under United Nations and United States auspices to allow for offshore energy exploration.

After years of quiet US shuttle diplomacy, Lebanon and Israel this month said they had agreed to begin the negotiations in what Washington hailed as a “historic” agreement.

Lebanon, mired in its worst economic crisis since the 1975-1990 civil war, is looking to settle the maritime border dispute so it can press on with its offshore quest for oil and gas.

... Claudine Aoun, daughter of Lebanese President Michel Aoun, told Al Jadeed TV that peace with Israel would be conceivable if outstanding issues were resolved.

The armed movement Hezbollah, a major force in Lebanese politics, has criticised the maritime talks.

Meanwhile investigation of the blast is blocked/stalled:

Lebanon: Flawed Domestic Blast Investigation


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 22 2020 15:01 utc | 2

Colombia Reports: A year after Colombia’s biggest anti-government protests in four decades, President Ivan Duque has gone from being an unpopular fraud to being accused of terrorism. Duque and his Defense Minister Carlos Holmes Trujillo may not know it yet, but the protests marked the beginning what doesn’t only seem to be the end of them, but also of their far-right party, the Democratic Center.

LAHT: Brazil has become the first Latin American country to receive an initial batch of vaccines against COVID-19, a development that coincides with an upward trend there in coronavirus cases and deaths.The first 120,000 doses of CoronaVac arrived on Thursday in Sao Paulo after that state’s government reached a deal with its developer, China’s Sinovac Biotech.

El Salvador Perspectives: Investigators from the office of the Attorney General of El Salvador ("FGR" for its initials in Spanish) raided the offices of various government ministries between November 9 and 12 to gather documents and computer files. The investigators held a judicial order in an investigation of possible corruption in pandemic-related contracting by the government. The transactions in question total as much as $155 million according to reporting by RevistaFactum. Reportedly two thirds of the contracts used to purchase medical supplies during the pandemic are under investigation.

Stabroek News: [GUYANA] Not to be lost sight of by the government is that the oil revenues that have begun to flow are for the development of the future Guyana – 50 years hence – and for generations to come. The Stabroek Block and the Liza-1 well are not for the benefit of only today’s citizens. The revenues must lay the foundation for future generations based on sustainable and perpetual economic growth in a carbon neutral economy. To accomplish this requires that Guyana extracts the best possible deal from ExxonMobil. What we have at the moment is woefully unacceptable. Notwithstanding the fact that the PSA is a profit sharing agreement rather than a revenue sharing one, the 2% royalty payment to Guyana for its oil has stood out as an obscenity. It must be improved upon significantly. The many loopholes in the PSA for Exxon’s claimed recoverable expenses to reduce profit sharing to Guyana must be addressed. There must be ring-fencing of the various offshore cost centres to prevent Exxon from simply floating expenses at will in Guyana’s direction. Exxon must pay taxes to Guyana. No major undertaking in any sector of this economy must be able to operate without paying its share of taxes. The period for cost recovery of Exxon’s investment also has to be confronted. There are also major gaps in the PSA in relation to environmental protection.
More on the topic HERE: Opposition party suspicions have added to the growing number of voices within Guyana and abroad who worry that Exxon’s corporate muscle is overwhelming the country’s small and inexperienced government. Guyana had “no economic model” for negotiating with the company, said Jan Mangal, who was an energy adviser to Granger in 2017 and 2018, after the contract was signed. “Ministers didn’t ask for advice from oil and gas experts,” he said. “Exxon will take what it can get, everything it can get. And in terms of Guyana, the people are only beginning to realize what they have lost.”

Posted by: Maracatu | Nov 22 2020 15:17 utc | 3

Dominion voting system, Maduro & election fraud the idea that Dominion was developed for Chavez and also used by Maduro to commit election fraud has gained major currency in the Republican voter base.

This is being promoted by his legal team, Rudi Giuliani and Jenna Ellis as well as his echo chamber on FOX, Maria Bartiromo, Pete Hegseth, Michael Steyn. Ironically, FOX is being demonized for being 'too liberal' because they are entertaining the idea that Joe Biden actually did win the election because his margin is wider then Trump's in the same swing states.

1. A Wall Street editorial pointed out that the Dominion system counted at least 2M votes in Georgia and the recount of the paper ballots showed a discrepancy in the '10's of votes'. This is empirical proof that the Dominion software did not throw the election in Georgia.

2. Was there ever even an actual example of voter fraud in Venezuela or was this yet another example of our Security Establishment lying to destabilize another country.

If our own (United States) lies are now coming back to haunt us, it couldn't happen to a more Exceptional nation.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Nov 22 2020 16:18 utc | 4

Something is happening in Guatemala, and the Western media is not reporting on it. Which usually means the events we see were not part of a plan. Sandra Cuffe of Al Jazeera wrote this yesterday. She also posted some videos on Twitter.

Guatemala protesters torch Congress as simmering anger boils over

Protesters set part of the Congress of the Republic of Guatemala building on fire Saturday, after a controversial budget bill brought a series of long-simmering crises to a boiling point, spurring anti-government demonstrations.

Thousands of people took to city and town squares around the country with demands ranging from a presidential veto of the budget bill and prosecution of corruption to resignations across all branches of government and the constitutional assembly.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Nov 22 2020 16:24 utc | 5

L'Orient-Le Jour promotes the narrative that Macron was played by the Sunnis but a knowledgeable cynic would see this as just a cover for Macron's assisting a USA-Israel-Saudi gambit against Hezbollah.


“Macron was hoodwinked by the Sunnis,” says a well-informed Lebanese analyst.... Hariri’s attitude surprises everyone. The former prime minister has for years adopted a moderate stance vis-à-vis Hezbollah. And now he has decided to toughen it up just as he is put back in the saddle by the French initiative.

“It is the American administration steamroller that was set in motion with an agenda different from that of Paris,” a well-informed source says.... A few weeks later, Berri will announce the resumption of negotiations between Lebanon and Israel for the demarcation of maritime borders.

Hezbollah finds itself in a paradoxical situation. It has never been stronger, both in Lebanon and on the regional level. But all its positions are weakened and it feels cornered from all sides. In Lebanon, the party is well aware that it is losing some of its Christian cover and risks ending up alone against everyone else.

Adib steps down on Sept. 26 after failing to form a government. At a press conference the next day, Macron vilifies Lebanese political leaders, naming Hariri and blaming Hezbollah for the failure of the initiative.

A month later, Hariri makes his big comeback as he is designated prime minister once again. The local press is convinced that he is backed by the French and has the green light from the US and Saudi Arabia.

France will never give up on Lebanon ... [although] the Macronian moment may, for now, have passed ...


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 22 2020 16:39 utc | 6

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Nov 22 2020 16:18 utc | 5

keep on munching that copium!!
I trust the bookies far more and they say it smells rotten.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Nov 22 2020 16:54 utc | 7

Interesting read from F William Engdahl who takes a deeper look at the Pfizer vaccine

Suspicious events

However it seems Albert Bourla, the CEO of Pfizer, doesn’t share the confidence of his own claims. On the day his company issued its press release on the proposed vaccine trials, he sold 62% of his stock in Pfizer, making millions profit in the deal. He made the sell order in a special option in August so it would not appear as “insider selling”, however he also timed it just after the US elections and the mainstream media illegitimately declared Joe Biden President-elect. It seems from appearances that Bourla had a pretty clear conflict of interest in the timing of his press release on the same day.

What’s Not Being Said About Pfizer Coronavirus Vaccine

Posted by: Down South | Nov 22 2020 17:17 utc | 8

Dominion voting systems Venezuela controversy stems from a Wikileak of a US diplomatic cable. The cable features very little definitive or established information - so Powell's claims don't rise much past speculation. Chavez was highly popular, and hardly needed election software to prevail in elections.

Ukraine learns all about the rules-based international order. Successful specialized engine manufacturer forced to give up 80% of its business (with Russia) after Maidan coup. Finds new customers in China. Whoops.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 22 2020 17:19 utc | 9

Did Obama *really* just say this?

Obama: Trump an 'elixir' for Americans 'spooked by a Black man in the White House'

Obama continues to eviscerate himself in the article:


Former President Barack Obama, selling his new memoir, sounds like someone who is still unaware that his FBI spied on the Trump campaign in 2016.

In a book-tour interview with Oprah Winfrey, Mr. Obama says he’s eager for presumptive President-elect Joseph R. Biden “to re-establish that we don’t use the Justice Department, for example, to go after political enemies.”

Operation Crossfire Hurricane, anyone?

Mr. Obama went on to say that Mr. Biden and presumptive Vice President-elect Kamala D. Harris will demonstrate in office that “we don’t mingle personal business interests with the business of government.”

Hunter Biden, anyone?

Did Obama actually say these things? AMAZING!

"For millions of Americans spooked by a Black man in the White House, he promised an elixir for their racial anxiety.”

Posted by: librul | Nov 22 2020 17:22 utc | 10

I can certainly see some of Dominion's vote rigging capabilities being developed in Venezuela, but at the behest of the empire in order to rig the elections against the Chavistas. That doesn't mean that some of the Republicans don't sincerely believe that Dominion is a communist election rigging plot, just that they are wrong about it (what's unusual about Republicans being wrong?). Trump and Giuliani at least have pretty obviously been kept in the dark about most of the details of the empire's global democracy management operations, so I suppose it is an understandable, though pathetically naive, mistake to make.

Anyway, it seems that counting ballots at this point is unlikely to reveal the election fraud. The regime change professionals have had plenty of time and access to make the necessary adjustments to the ballots to make sure they conform to the claimed results. It isn't like it is the first time they have ever had to do this sort of thing.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2020 17:24 utc | 11

Trump is a bad LOSER!

Posted by: Nick | Nov 22 2020 17:29 utc | 12

@jayc | Nov 22 2020 17:19 utc | 10

Dominion voting systems Venezuela controversy stems from a Wikileak of a US diplomatic cable. The cable features very little definitive or established information - so Powell's claims don't rise much past speculation. Chavez was highly popular, and hardly needed election software to prevail in elections.

Yes, Chavez was very popular, and he died years ago (2013). It looks very peculiar and unprofessional by Powell to somehow blame the 2020 US election coup on Chavez. I can't think of a rational reason to push such an angle unless you want to discredit the fraud lawsuits and deflect away for what actually happened within the borders of the US. I will wonder who she works for until I see something solid presented.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 22 2020 17:31 utc | 13

Whew what a week. And this week's going to be even __________________.

It does seem at this point Trump and his co-conspirators are a mix of Barnum, Bailey and the Pied Piper. It's a rather cynical exploitation of a 'sucker born every minute' and a cult of personality. If the goal is to destroy 'populism' which is certainly the Establishment project, Donald J. Trump is a chief agent of that purpose.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 22 2020 17:34 utc | 14

A 3 part series which is a fascinating combination of limousine liberal-dom and failure to understand what is happening in the US:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Why do I say so?

Because the deplorable part of America has lost more people due to excess suicides and opioid overdoses than the entire United States has lost to COVID thus far. It is just that these deaths don't matter to the PMC elites, of which the author is clearly one (and at least somewhat admits it).

Nor is the analogy of Sri Lanka Civil War to COVID particularly apt, particularly the political subtext to all 3 articles. Among other things: the COVID deaths are significantly skewed to liberal urban areas vs. conservative rural ones.

Or to paraphrase this author using his definition:
America collapsed starting at least 15 years ago, not in 2020.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2020 17:35 utc | 15

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2020 17:24 utc | 12

Yes, Giuliani and Sydney Powell said "communists and Venezuela and Cuba" but those were fly attracting political buzz words and then they got to the real heart of it in their press conference.

41:15 into the video Sydney Powell says “The Dominion Project” (her words). She names Lord Malloch Brown as “one of the leaders of the Dominion Project…and Soros’ #2 man in the UK”. (rough quote) “Dominion shared offices with a Soros entity in Toronto”.

Video of press conference:

Here is an article about Lord Malloch Brown:

Lord Malloch Brown Revealed: The British Hand Behind the Coup Shows Its Scales Again

Posted by: librul | Nov 22 2020 17:36 utc | 16

And where would I find said bookies?
I'm feelin lucky...

Posted by: David G Horsman | Nov 22 2020 17:39 utc | 17

JFK was assassinated 57 years ago today.

Wonder how the various generations, generally speaking, view that event and it's cause?


Baby Boomers: I surmise we generally don't believe in the Lone Gunman Theory. Ironically, those Baby Boomers that count themselves
as Democrats now support Trump's enemy the CIA.

Gen X: "My history teacher said..."

Gen Y: "JFK?"

Gen Z: "Whatever"

Posted by: librul | Nov 22 2020 17:47 utc | 18

The riots in Guatemala were provoked by an announced harsh cut in social policies/measures in the middle of a pandemia, while the elites have awarded themselves a rise in the deputies´ diets asignements along with magre benefits for buidlers through announced inversion in infrastructures.
The people just said enough is enough.


Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 22 2020 17:47 utc | 19

Today of course is the sad anniversary of the assassination of the 35th American President, JFK. Killed, history tells us, by a lone gunman, communist sympathizer, traitor, and failure who wanted his 15 minutes of fame.

Meanwhile, the CIA continues to run the world.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 22 2020 17:57 utc | 20

Interesting interview with Sidney Powell on Newsmax where she discusses voter fraud committed with Dominion

Posted by: Down South | Nov 22 2020 17:58 utc | 21

"Putin says American presence in Afghanistan is beneficial to Moscow's interests, rubbishes claims of ‘Russian bounties to Taliban’ - RT"
So, Putin at long last is trying reverse-psychology against the USA? Might work.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 22 2020 17:58 utc | 22

The United States government will formally designate the anti-Israel boycott movement “anti-Semitic” and immediately start cracking down on groups affiliated with it, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Thursday during a visit to Israel, calling BDS a “cancer.”

“Today I want to make one announcement with respect to a decision by the State Department that we will regard the global anti-Israel BDS campaign as anti-Semitic,” he said, standing next to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during a joint statement to the press.

“I know this may sound simple to you, Mr. Prime Minister, it seems like a statement of fact, but I want you to know that we will immediately take steps to identify organizations that engage in hateful BDS conduct and withdraw US government support for such groups. The time is right,” Pompeo declared.

Posted by: Mao | Nov 22 2020 18:03 utc | 23

A newly appointed senior adviser at the Pentagon has said on at least two occasions that “Israeli lobby” money is responsible for Washington’s support for Jerusalem, and accused high level officials, including US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, of becoming “very, very rich” as a result of their support for Israel, CNN revealed Friday.

Douglas Macgregor, a retired army colonel, was asked in September 2019 whether then-national security adviser John Bolton and Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham wanted war with Iran.

“You have to look at the people that donate to those individuals,” Macgregor said.

“Mr. Bolton has become very, very rich and is in the position he’s in because of his unconditional support for the Israeli lobby. He is their man on the ground in the White House,” said Macgregor.

Posted by: Mao | Nov 22 2020 18:05 utc | 24

An idea just occurred to me that might explain the “Dominion machines/Venezuela” connection :

If Venezuela is widely (bipartisanly) considered “electoral fraudsters”, that taints these machines.

That makes IMPLEMENTING these machines a few years later in the US a WILLFUL electoral crime.

Posted by: Featherless | Nov 22 2020 18:18 utc | 25

The US Department of Justice announced on November 4 that it had seized the web domain of the American Herald Tribune (AHT), an alternative media outlet that published editorials criticizing US foreign policy. AHT printed articles primarily written by Americans under their own names, often as original content. 128 other internet publications based in Iran were also taken down by US law enforcement.

The US Department of Justice (DOJ) and the FBI engaged in more than two years of legal chicanery to justify its unprecedented seizure of AHT and the other Iran-based websites. Among many intricate maneuvers, they sought to link AHT and the other websites to Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), thus portraying them as accessories to terrorism and in violation of US laws regulating foreign influence operations. The FBI also relied on a public relations campaign to frame the Iranian websites it targeted as agents of a foreign power.

These actions and justifications enabled the FBI to obtain far-reaching new powers that could have serious implications for the basic American freedom to write, publish and access news and opinion.

Posted by: Mao | Nov 22 2020 18:23 utc | 26

Further to a comment I made on an earlier post, now there is some shocking TV footage.

If a country is fighting endless wars to make the Middle East safe for the ugly and expansionist bandit state it becomes just like the bandit state. Note: it is not unlawful killing it is murder. I cringe when I hear politicians proclaim 'our values.'

Posted by: Paul | Nov 22 2020 18:26 utc | 27

The American Herald Tribune (AHT) is back. We escaped the treacherous wrath of notorious thought police agencies including the US Department of Justice, the FBI, the CIA as well as a few of their media front operations including CNN, the Washington Post, and Bloomberg News. With a slip and a slide and a pirouette or two we danced out of the clutches of the US Dark State and re-emerged at .ca,

Posted by: Mao | Nov 22 2020 18:27 utc | 28

"If Venezuela is widely (bipartisanly) considered “electoral fraudsters”, that taints these machines..."

Venezuela's reputation for well run, clean elections is actually well established. Among those calling them the 'fairest in the world' is Jimmy Carter.
US political discourse is a form of madness, whose most extreme manifestation is bi-partisan foreign policy.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 22 2020 18:39 utc | 29

This is a segment of Alan Jones on Sky News Australia on the US election

The really fascinating part starts 3:56. If the Executive Order he discusses is true ......

Posted by: Down South | Nov 22 2020 18:44 utc | 30

Since it is the Dallas day I was pleased to see on twitter[dot] com/LeeHarvey63

He's doing a play, sorta. Very good.

"....Lee Harvey Oswald
The police have sealed the building. I can’t return to work now. I doubt there would have been anymore work to do anyway. Myself, Bonnie Richey, Sharon Nelson, Stella Mae Jacob, and Gloria Jeanne Holt are all leaving since we can’t get back in...."

It goes on for a time.


I thought "Mike Yeadon Unlocked Why Lockdown was a mistake" @ bitchute was interesting.

Posted by: Walter | Nov 22 2020 18:57 utc | 31

On the options of Lebanon/Hezbollah, there is no option without dignity:

Watch Guns For Food: The U.S. War On Hezbollah And Lebanon's Shia here

Talking with Israel at this point, "That's the kind of conversation between the sword and the neck".."Stopping the fight for liberation, is not an option"....
For such logical statements, some were erased from the face of Earth..

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 22 2020 19:09 utc | 32

I've been wasting some time accompanying some serious (read: sane) American political analysts, and they all seem to come to these same overall conclusions:

1) Trump's lawsuits to try to change the elections results will be unsuccessful (because he lost both Arizona and Georgia, so even if he flips Pennsylvania and even Michigan, the equation won't close in his favor). However, he lays the foundations for a future, more talented and serious far-right leadership to rise in the near future in the USA. Metaphorically, Trump is the Gaius Gracchus to the USA's (hypothesized) upcoming Julius Caesar. Or, if you want to be ideological and more recent, the USA's Paul von Hindenburg for the USA's upcoming Adolf Hitler;

2) Trump is still not the Messiah the American right-wing is waiting for. Most of his followers are more like fans of a superstar than a mass political movement. All those scenes of violence involving the BLM, Antifa and Trump supporters are actually still marginal; most of the conflict is still all talk and no bark. Trump is not "the guy" - at least the 2020 version. Maybe he comes back on top in 2024; or it will be, most likely, another leadership, more ideologically pure than the opportunistic Trump.

3) The American far-right's problem right now is that the ideologically suitable successors to Trump are not in the ideal regions of the country, where a true national mass movement can be built up. They are all from the Deep South. The leaderships from the important regions of the country are not yet ideologically pure to be true successors of the Trump-initialized movement. The Nazis had to import their ideal leadership from Austria to the right place (Berlin and Bavaria) to make things work; this operation is harder to do in the USA, where localism (identity with one's State of birth) is much stronger.

4) The Democratic Party is in tatters. They don't know what to do now that Biden is President elect. Socialism continues to grow withing the party's belly, but it is still too small to have any effectiveness. The DNC is barely keeping control of the party through outright gerontocracy (maintenance of Nancy Pelosi as speaker, at 80 years of age), but the majority in the Congress narrowed while the size of the "Squad" has doubled (from 4 to 8). There may come a situation where the socialists will serve as the de facto Vote of Minerva on some important legislation, which may accelerate the rise of a true nazifascist movement in the USA.


@ Posted by: Featherless | Nov 22 2020 18:18 utc | 26

The Republicans are clearly catering to their Floridan and Texan electoral base. As I've said many times here before, the Venezuelan and Cuban communities in Florida are the scum of the scum, rabid anticommunists, with a lot of political power. Florida is not a swing state anymore thanks to their growth (as the regime change operations fail, they immigrate, like rats, to Florida, in order to receive a pension as promised by the CIA).

By blaming Cuba and Venezuela, the Republicans kill two birds with one stone: they flip the result to Trump and lay the ground for invasions of Cuba and Venezuela.

Yesterday, a Tibetan monarch received political asylum (with a generous pension) in the USA. The aim is surely to invade Tibet and turn it into an absolutists monarchy where he will be the sovereign. As these kinds of operations multiply around the world, the tendency is for the USA to continue to receive an influx of far-righters in their territory, thus becoming a nazifascist paradise. In due time, Pennsylvania won't be a swing state anymore, going full Republican.

The USA is slowly but surely becoming the international headquarters for the far-right. It is sleepwalking into becoming the Third Reich of WWIII.

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 19:14 utc | 33

bevin, you’re missing my point.

Here’s an analogy : imagine the blues and reds both agree that I am a notorious thief, even if it’s only a false narrative. Then they hire me as a security guard. That would be willfully, knowingly hiring a criminal, which would be criminal, not because of the facts, but because of the logic.

Posted by: Featherless | Nov 22 2020 19:17 utc | 34

by: Down South @ 9 < no one seems to care about how unnecessary and dangerous vaccines are? .. TR10 a ursolic acid derivative is supposed to stop dead in its tract any kind of corona virus replication why are we not trying to disprove that, it can be manufactured in many many labs at once all over the world because it is an fruit [apple skin] which is a natural product.. If the virus cannot replicate it cannot make you sick. and the replication is stopped without regard to the specific species or mutation of corona viruses.

Phytolabs all over the world have found other molecules that show great promise against corona virus infections. The thing about these molecules they are not considered dangerous since they come from fruit. Yesterday's apple is today's replication stopper.

This is the problem with medicine the dummy physicians wait on pharma to tel lthem how to and what to do .

Posted by: snake | Nov 22 2020 19:18 utc | 35

thanks b.. always fascinating and much appreciated.. james

Posted by: james | Nov 22 2020 19:29 utc | 36

A couple of thoughts about the Venzuela gambit. Evidently Tucker Carson wanted Sydney to tell him all about the "Dominion" vote flipping in a public interview. Which would have been tantamount to giving away all the potential Republican case, and given the Democrats prior knowledge of what to expect. A no-go. Mentioning "Venezuela-Cuba" could have the effect of heading off a direct civil war if the US Dems and Repubs have a" common enemy" to blame. (Too late for Russia, China too touchy, not many other major targets). Note that Venezuela has a paper trail created at the same time as the electronic vote. Does Cuba even have electronic voting?.
Other wars; Ethiopia and Tigray. The story here is that Tigray is aligned (pro) with the Chinese BRI, and Ethiopia's new President is Pro-US. The War started around the same time that Russia announced it's new attachment port in Port Sudan. So With Socotra and Djibouti, the "openings" into Africa are being literally fought over. There was an article by Enghdahl (Tom dispatch) some time ago about how the large US presence is underestimated. The Ethiopians are winning as of today.

Lebanon; The US object here is to disposses the Christians and cut them off from Herzbollah. Hariri has said that HE will name the Christian Ministers, thus blocking the formation of a Parliament. He is also covering the corruption by leaders of various groups.

Syria and Palestine: Israel are bombing Syria, Iranians and Gaza heavily on flimsy excuses. Probably pre-planned. This is clearly a way to get a war going before Trump leaves. (If he doesn't leave then the situation just leads into more war.). They are also pushing the "sanctions" bit, by Pompeo and other warhawks.

Armenia; The depletion or reduction of Armenian forces before the war started is simply not mentioned. Troop reductions (ratio of 11 down to 9), did they even buy missiles for their 4 S-35s? Increase of the top level Generals and Bureaucracy. Large desertions of troops (1'500 in Karabakh) etc.
Erdogan seems to have been threatened with Sanctions by the US so he may start to get uppity in Idlib again.

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 22 2020 19:37 utc | 37

Mao @ 29

Never heard the the American Herald Tribune until they got taken down. Looking back at some of their articles in the way back machine I see nothing seriously threatening to the state. Never have heard of or seen any of their work appearing in anything I am reading.

That being said, them being taken down was enough to add them to my reading list. It might be they are cementing a crackdown on anything considered antisemitic against the European Jews that took over Palestine before Trump leaves office.

They are shifting the label from "antisemitic" to "antijew" because being called out as Europeans who are not Semitic and not Abraham's seed that was given the land in the Old Testament which really pisses them off.

By their reckoning an Indonesian muslim is semitic and an Eskimo that converts to Judaism is semitic.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 22 2020 19:38 utc | 38

@34 vk

"The USA is slowly but surely becoming the international headquarters for the far-right. It is sleepwalking into becoming the Third Reich of WWIII."

Vk, there is so much stupidity in this comment, I don't even know where to begin.

I do expect at least a little more than this, in all fairness. You can do much better.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 22 2020 19:39 utc | 39

vk | Nov 22 2020 19:14 utc | 34

The Republicans anticipated the efforts of the Dem controlled State "Supreme courts" against them. They are simply trying to get to the Federal Supreme Court (where they now have a majority). They have already filed claims (I think), which presumably means that they have to get "through" all the intermediate steps. Even if they lose them.

I'm not US, so this is my opinion, and although there has been an article in ZH on this point, it is not a definite fact - yet.

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 22 2020 19:51 utc | 40

After you've hopefully watched the Giuliani press conference

don't miss this post about Sidney Powell

Posted by: michael | Nov 22 2020 19:51 utc | 41

Before we are all banned for doing things like this, as Jeremy Corbyn has been, some words about "what life and what existence is worth", or, paraphrasing another great one, "how we graduate at men/women", after learning the esential...

"Letter From Gaza" by Ghassan Kanafani, read by John Berger.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 22 2020 19:53 utc | 42

Mao | Nov 22 2020 18:27 utc | 29:

Using a Canadian domain name won't save it from the wrath of the US.

Posted by: Ian2 | Nov 22 2020 20:09 utc | 43

@DS 31
If the Executive Order he discusses is true ......

President Trump has issued 57 Executive Orders (EOs) this year, here, because that's what "democracies" do! Who needs lawmakers.

EOs have an interesting history, serving as "a rich source of presidential ascendancy" since WWII according to political scientist Robert Spitzer. Harry Truman seized the nation's steel mills in 1952 with Executive Order 10340, which resulted in the last century's most important judicial statement on the limits of presidential power, in Youngstown Sheet and Tube Co. vs. Sawyer .here. wiki-- 'The case served as a check on the most far-reaching claims of executive power at the time and signaled the Court's increased willingness to intervene in political questions.' . . .Still, EOs have been used more and more, especially starting with Bill Clinton's presidency. Advisor Paul Bagala outlined the strategy thus: "Stroke of the Pen. . . . Law of the Land. Kind of cool.". . . In fact that's the name of an excellent book on EOs -- "With The Stroke of a Pen" by Kenneth R. Mayer, here.

As the US Congress continues to be more corrupt with lifetime gerrymandered members, and correspondingly more unresponsive to current public needs, we may expect more and more EOs.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 22 2020 20:16 utc | 44

: NemesisCalling | Nov 22 2020 19:39 utc | 40

in re> vk wrote: "It is sleepwalking into becoming the Third Reich of WWIII."

I find no fault, and no stupidity, in his remark. I agree with vk in this matter.

I do have a slightly differing opinion, but it does not detract from vk's statement. I would say, as my Marxist mother did, that the US moved into the fascist or cryptonazi realm at Warm Springs with FDR's demise and at Potsdam made it quite clear.

Now, obviously, it's progressed.

I am, however, open to the idea that a nascent US fascism is more or less intrinsic since 1787, at least.

I will no doubt lose sleep if somebody thinks that's stupid.

Posted by: Walter | Nov 22 2020 20:24 utc | 45

librul @19, I'm a pre-baby boomer and I'm still very sad.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 22 2020 20:26 utc | 46

As Emma Goldman said longtime ago: "If voting could change anything it would be illegal".

The electoral system is designed from scratch to be fully hackable from many points in all the process, and the fraud in the elections is as american as the apple pie. This is a documentary from 2006, where the exact same problems were exposed, but nothing has changed at all:

The elections in the Center of the Empire means trillions of $ for many people, not just in US, but around the world, because what it is a stake is the "Imperial Wealth Pump" nothing less.

That is the only reason to maintain this baroque election system based on bags full of ballots inside cars running in the night from one distant place to another, just to be counted by hundreds of people with scanners in some kind of assembly lines, and counted by a software of a private company with a secret code.

The election system could be made much much much more simple, secure and cheap, but THEY DO NOT WANT to do this way.

"Democracy is too important to be left to the voters" (me)

Posted by: DFC | Nov 22 2020 20:33 utc | 47

The Emancipation Proclamation was an Executive Order.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 22 2020 21:06 utc | 48

Labour leader accused of ‘direct’ political interference in purge of party members

The persecution is so blatant and so vulgarly executed that even The Guardian is having difficulty pulling a NYT.

Keir Starmer is completely indigestible to the base of the party. He's probably the first Labour leader ever to be fully artificially created, in an MSM vat. A very lame attempt to Americanize the Labour Party.


Tibetan separatist leader’s visit aims to serve multi US purposes

The Americans barely have the capacity to make some noise with Taiwan, which is in the sea, therefore in a terrain that very much favors the American armed forces over the Chinese ones. They spectacularly failed to flip Hong Kong, where the ideological terrain is orders of magnitude more favorable to stage a color revolution.

What makes them think they can flip a landlocked region that's completely strange to Western ideology and is barely populated and very mountainous?

The only thing this wannabe absolutist monarch will do successfully is to eat another chunk of the American taxpayer money.


US-Taiwan semiconductor deal a political show: experts

"The world's biggest market for semiconductors is the Chinese mainland, and if the semiconductors are concentrated in the US and the island of Taiwan, there is a question mark over whether they are capable of producing and consuming enough terminal products," Xiang Ligang, director-general of the Beijing-based Information Consumption Alliance, told the Global Times on Sunday.

"After all, US consumption of semiconductor equipment remains relatively small, and ultimately the producers will have to serve the Chinese mainland market," Xiang said.

Here's the secret: semiconductor technology is not hard - the Mainland can create them in a laboratory anytime they want. The hard part is to make it socially viable, which requires a very big market share (massification).

How will the Taiwanese semiconductor survive without the Mainland's market share?


@ Posted by: snake | Nov 22 2020 19:18 utc | 36

The issue seems pretty much straightforward to me:

1) if you are offered the Russian or the Chinese vaccines, take them. They're safe;

2) if you are offered the Americans or the British vaccines, do not take them. The collateral effects do not compensate for the risk of you dying from or being permanently maimed by COVID-19.


@ Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 22 2020 19:51 utc | 41

Wait, what?

Pennsylvania and Georgia have Republican governors. Having the governor is the key to defrauding the election because he/she has control of the people counting and certifying the votes. The judges are not important in this equation.

A lawsuit asking for the elimination of a batch of votes doesn't change the fact that the governor has already determined how each kind of ballot was certified; the judge can do nothing about it.

Paper ballots always have some degree of fraud. The problem is that Biden flipped so much States by so significant margins that it is hard to imagine such a sophisticated and full of reverse psychology fraud ever happening - let alone in many Republican states.

Biden won these elections. The interesting here will be how Trumpism will evolve from now on - after all, he avoided a "Blue Landslide" and still has 71 million adults on his side.

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 21:30 utc | 49

Re: Biden transition, Republican efforts to refute outcome

It's actually relatively tame, compared to what I expected based on the post-2016 experience. Then, we had the never-Trump Republicans posing a distantly-credible threat of "faithless electors", which could be done with a single state. This time, aside from what will be some moot lawsuits, Republicans have the "refuse-to-certify-results" gambit. This is weaker, as it would have to be done in 2 or even 3 different states that were close and which Republicans control (such as AZ, GA, MI), to bring Biden's electoral votes below 270, and thence to the House state delegations, which favor Republicans. I have zero expectation of this, not wasting further time on it. What you're seeing is grandstanding by individual state-level Republicans, who briefly have the attention of the national media, and can hope to turn a good dramatic performance in this brief moment into a State Senate seat or something like that.

Re: Biden transition, hints of personnel and policy etc

Looking at domestic areas. Foreign policy is very significant, but no surprises to be found. Interested in how quickly Democrats figure out that Biden is far more conservative than Obama. In particular hopes for a meaningful Green New Deal will be dashed early on, I would expect. But do look for some big money crony capitalist program for the energy industry, analogous to what the Obamacare was in relation to single-payer/M4A. Expecting energy lobbyists in key positions, and distraction via scams like corn-based biofuels or carbon capture. Two substantive things that are not impossible are: (1) domestic nuclear energy industry, which in a high-renewable world, is dead without subsidies. (2) the so called hydrogen economy, which EU is investing in. "Green hydrogen" is a perfectly real (tho very expensive) solution to the energy storage problem of wind/solar.

Covid Vaccine - Moderna announced a "$25-$37" price range... Good money if they hit their optimistic case of a billion doses sold (vs 100 million or whatever the US govt guaranteed them, besides helping with the development and manufacturing capacity). Look for Chinese competition to undercut that in very large numbers. It will be quite a feat though to roll out in a year.

Posted by: ptb | Nov 22 2020 21:39 utc | 50

@Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 21:30 utc | 49

Sir Keir Starmer...You explain me how a "Sir", in the British sense of the term, can be the leader of a "labour" party...unless what the party represents is anything except the working class..

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 22 2020 22:04 utc | 51

michael # 42

After you've hopefully watched the Giuliani press conference

Thank you, but I will get more value sipping coffee and watching one of my hens shit.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 22 2020 22:05 utc | 52

@ptb 50

I agree green hydrogen is a very expensive solution to the energy storage problem of wind/solar.

There is a new and emerging solution, the vanadium redox battery:

Posted by: Paul | Nov 22 2020 22:18 utc | 53

Looks like Pepe Escobar's Kraken is just a small sardine:

Trump Campaign Statement on Legal Team: Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own. She's not a member of the Trump Legal Team.

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 22:43 utc | 55

Nice to see all the discussion surrounding the numerous post-election Summits /S.

G-20 Summit extends Debt Relief:

"The G20 is expected to endorse a plan to extend a debt-servicing moratorium for poor and highly indebted economies in the developing world by six months to mid-2021, said the G20 communique released on Sunday, as the coronavirus pandemic has hit the most vulnerable nations in the world hardest.

"'We are committed to implementing the Debt Service Suspension Initiative (DSSI) including its extension through June 2021, allowing DSSI-eligible countries to suspend official bilateral debt service payments,' said the communique.

"As of November 13, 46 countries have requested relief from the DSSI, amounting to an estimated $5.7 billion of debt service deferral, according to the communique."

Considering the 3-5 Trillions the Fed gave to Wall Street, the $5.7 billion amounts to peanuts, although I'm sure some nations would prefer to use peanuts instead of dollars in payment. China holds about 20% of the debt total:

"During a recent written interview, Chinese Finance Minister Liu Kun said that China has suspended debt owed by developing countries in the amount of $1.353 billion, with 23 countries benefiting from the initiative. As of the end of September, the China Development Bank had signed agreements with DSSI beneficiaries involving $748 million."

I'm fairly certain that debt relief authorized by IMF and World Bank is the only help the Outlaw US Empire has provided to other nations during the pandemic, and I'll bet the initiative was forwarded by other nations, not the Empire, which like a Loan Shark has always insisted on payments no matter what.

Of course, the debt issue is tied into the pandemic and the debt aid is just one form of help being discussed at the G-20. Trump's G-20 behavior provided more fuel for editorials:

"US President Donald Trump has been criticized for his absent-mindedness during the summit. Video showed that Trump kept his head down when Saudi King Salman gave his opening remarks. During the summit, Trump sent many tweets that had nothing to do with the G20 or COVID-19, as he continued to complain about election frauds in Michigan, of which no evidence has yet been provided, etc. On top of this, the US president skipped the summit's "Pandemic Preparedness" event in favor of a trip to one of his golf clubs. Trump was clearly not interested in the G20 summit and its discussions as his mind was still fully preoccupied by the 2020 elections. His presence at the virtual APEC leaders' meeting, hosted remotely by Malaysia on Friday, and the virtual G20 summit is believed to be only a move to show he is still US president.

"Trump's performance at the two big meetings is precisely a reflection of the US fight against the COVID-19. The US has astonishingly registered over 12 million coronavirus infections with nearly 256,000 deaths. The US should be displaying the most concern and seek cooperation for the COVID-19 fight. However, Washington, in its indifference, has poured cold water onto the notion of global cooperation in dealing with the pandemic."

I completely agree with the editor's conclusion, but I hope he's prepared to be greatly disappointed as I greatly doubt Biden will act as he hopes:

"If the next administration continues to view China as a top issue that the US needs to address, it will be impossible to lead the US toward a new path of seeking truth from facts. It will wander in the shadow of Trumpism. All humanity needs to join hands and make arduous efforts to completely defeat COVID-19. There is no higher morality than saving lives around the world. The fate of the global economy next year will rest on how much substantive progress is made in defeating the pandemic. There is no time to play political games in the fight against the pandemic."

Well, sure there's plenty of time to play such games--just look at Trump!--particularly if you are 100% immoral as the Empire most certainly is and care nothing about saving lives--even those of your own citizenry.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 22 2020 22:44 utc | 56

Clement Attlee, the head of the postwar Labour government that established the British welfare state, accepted ennoblement, becoming Earl Attlee.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 22 2020 22:49 utc | 57

There is evidence that asymptomatic transmission DOES NOT occur:

Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China

Stringent COVID-19 control measures were imposed in Wuhan between January 23 and April 8, 2020. Estimates of the prevalence of infection following the release of restrictions could inform post-lockdown pandemic management. Here, we describe a city-wide SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening programme between May 14 and June 1, 2020 in Wuhan. All city residents aged six years or older were eligible and 9,899,828 (92.9%) participated. No new symptomatic cases and 300 asymptomatic cases (detection rate 0.303/10,000, 95% CI 0.270–0.339/10,000) were identified. There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases. 107 of 34,424 previously recovered COVID-19 patients tested positive again (re-positive rate 0.31%, 95% CI 0.423–0.574%). The prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in Wuhan was therefore very low five to eight weeks after the end of lockdown.
my emphasis

This study comes supporting early (June 2020) official statements by WHO where:

We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They're following asymptomatic cases, they're following contacts and they're not finding secondary transmission onward. It's very rare and much of that is not published in the literature. From the papers that are published there's one that came out from Singapore looking at a long-term care facility. There are some household transmission studies where you follow individuals over time and you look at the proportion of those that transmit onwards.We are constantly looking at this data and we're trying to get more information from countries to truly answer this question. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward.
(my emphasis) COVID-19 daily press briefing 08 June 2020 (~33m24) - transcript

There existing or not "asymptomatic transmission" is a key piece of information because there lies the fundamental justification for isolation measures imposed on asymptomatic individuals with positive rtPCR test results. Further, without asymptomatic transmission, general confinements can not be scientifically justified for the purposes of slowing down/flattening the curve as has been claimed.

This recenters the pandemic response where it should be all along: properly diagnosed cases.

It is very curious that no later than 24 hours, WHO, was backtracking on the original statements, letting us know that models [as opposed to actual epidemiological studies] suggest otherwise but since they were models they were not mentioned. I'll chalk that up as excess zeal at best.


The supplementary material the study published in Nature was also revealing in terms of the rtPCR testing protocol, which employed, following Chinese National Guidelines, Ct values of ~35/34 (ORF and N genes respectively) on average. This arcs back to the question that has been haunting us, why are these tests being threshold at such high Ct values. In the Chinese case there appears to be an explanation. As the very title of the study mentions, these are tests made for screening purposes not diagnostic.

The following is very enlightening, contrast the following case definitions:

The European Case definition for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), as of 29 May 2020


Diagnostic imaging criteria

Radiological evidence showing lesions compatible with COVID-19

Laboratory criteria

Detection of SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid in a clinical specimen [2] [rtPCR test]


Case classification

  1. Possible case: Any person meeting the clinical criteria

  2. Probable case:
    Any person meeting the clinical criteria with an epidemiological link
    Any person meeting the diagnostic criteria

  3. Confirmed case: Any person meeting the laboratory criteria [see above]

my emphasis

The Chinese Diagnosis and definition of confirmed cases with COVID-19

Mild case The clinical symptoms are mild and no pneumonia manifestations can be found in imaging.

Moderate case
Patients have symptoms such as fever and respiratory tract symptoms etc., and pneumonia manifestations can be seen in imaging.

Severe case
Patients who meet any of the following criteria: dyspnea or respiratory rate ≥30 breaths/min; oxygen saturation ≤93% at a rest state; arterial partial pressure of oxygen (PaO2)/oxygen concentration (FiO2) ≤300 mmHg. Patients with >50% lesions progression within 24 to 48 hours in lung imaging should be treated as severe cases.

Critical case
Patients who meet any of the following criteria: occurrence of respiratory failure requiring mechanical ventilation; presence of shock; other organ failure that requires monitoring and treatment in the Intensive Care Unit.[at this severity they apparently dispense with imaging]

Clinically-diagnosed cases
The clinically-diagnosed cases were only allowed for the cases in the Hubei Province for the period of February 9 to 19 based on the 5th edition of the Scheme released by the National Health Commission of China released on February 8 and abolished on February 19. A presumptive case was defined as meeting the following criteria: (1) recent travel history to Wuhan City or Hubei Province; or close contact with a confirmed or probable case; or cluster transmission; (2) fever and/or respiratory symptoms; (3) laboratory evidence of normal or decreased number of leukocytes and/or lymphopenia. Those presumptive cases with further radiographic evidence showing pneumonia but without a positive RT-PCR test result were defined as clinically-diagnosed cases.

my emphasis

The take away: The Chinese rely on radiological imaging to confirm COVID-19 cases NOT on rtPCR tests which they limit for screening purposes, as opposed to the European which use radiological imaging to define a probable case and rtPCR testing to confirm. The Chinese rely on a tried and tested method for confirming diagnostic and the European rely fallible method generaly used for screening to confirm diagnostic.

This is absolutely absurd!

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 22 2020 22:51 utc | 58

@ Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 22 2020 22:51 utc | 58

The Nature article doesn't state there are no asymptomatic transmissions. It just analyzes the results of the lockdown in Wuhan.

The WHO link you posted is from June, when scientists really didn't know if asymptomatic transmission happened or not. They didn't state asymptomatic transmission didn't exist, they just said that, if it existed or not would change entirely the way we could contain it.

Unfortunately, we already know that asymptomatic transmissions do happen, so lockdowns are an absolute must.

You're confusing diagnosis with tracking. Diagnosis is when the doctor tells his/her patient what he/she has. Only a doctor can give a diagnosis, and only to his/her patients (i.e. the doctor can't diagnose a person that isn't his/her patient). Tracking is just the act where a government tries to have an idea of how many of its governed has a certain virus or bacteria.

Those you're quoting are the criteria for diagnosis, not tracking.

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 23:09 utc | 59

It appears the Outlaw US Empire has put all its chips on the table in favor of vaccines providing the path to "normalcy":

"US Covid-19 vaccinations may begin as soon as December 11, reach enough people for return to normalcy in May – program chief."

When was it determined that the two potential vaccines on offer have "efficacy rates of about 95 percent" since the reports posted here were extremely dubious about them being effective at all? More:

"An FDA vaccine advisory committee is scheduled to meet on December 10 and may grant Pfizer's request for emergency use authorization that day, Dr. Moncef Slaoui said on Sunday during an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper. The Trump administration stands ready to ship the vaccine to immunization sites in all 50 states within 24 hours, he said, so the first doses would be administered to recipients on December 11 or December 12."

As for a vaccine being a panacea, this is from the editorial I linked @56:

"The US has made certain breakthroughs in vaccine development, but so have China, Russia and other countries. The US' attitude toward vaccines seems much too optimistic. As WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said on November 16, 'A vaccine will complement the other tools we have, not replace them… a vaccine on its own will not end the pandemic.'" [My Emphasis]

So yet again, the USA's citizenry is being told by the two institutions it trusts the least--federal government and media--that the End is Near IF they imbibe the new Miracle.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 22 2020 23:09 utc | 60

We live in a society:

Now the U.S. Has Lots of Ventilators, but Too Few Specialists to Operate Them

“We’re now at a dangerous precipice,” said Dr. Lewis Kaplan, president of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. Ventilators, he said, are exceptionally complex machines that require expertise and constant monitoring for the weeks or even months that patients are tethered to them.

Is there a method to convert think tankers and "journalists" to specialized nurses?

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 23:36 utc | 61

The G-20 Leaders Declaration is now available, although it contains no signatures given the conference was virtual. I make mention of that since from its first paragraph its aims clearly deviate from the past 40 years of the Outlaw US Empire's Imperial Policy:

"[It's] our conviction that coordinated global action, solidarity, and multilateral cooperation are more necessary today than ever to overcome the current challenges and realize opportunities of the 21st century for all by empowering people, safeguarding the planet, and shaping new frontiers. We are committed to leading the world in shaping a strong, sustainable, balanced and inclusive post-COVID-19 era."

Yes, Multilateralism to the hilt, not Unilateral do as I say and to hell with everyone except the USA! If Biden has his hands tied in any manner by Trump's reign, it's in the realm of international relations. The Neocons hoping to go to work in Biden's regime will find the playing field greatly altered since they were last in the lineup, which will hopefully put some constraints on their behavior.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 22 2020 23:36 utc | 62


The Nature article doesn't state there are no asymptomatic transmissions. It just analyzes the results of the lockdown in Wuhan.

From the study:

Previous studies have shown that asymptomatic individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus were infectious3, and might subsequently become symptomatic4. Compared with symptomatic patients, asymptomatic infected persons generally have low quantity of viral loads and a short duration of viral shedding, which decrease the transmission risk of SARS-CoV-25. In the present study, virus culture was carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious.


The WHO link you posted is from June, when scientists really didn't know if asymptomatic transmission happened or not. They didn't state asymptomatic transmission didn't exist, they just said that, if it existed or not would change entirely the way we could contain it.

You should reread the transcript where Dr Maria Van Kerkhove responds specifically to the question of asymptomatic transmission "[detailed contact tracing] They're following asymptomatic cases, they're following contacts and they're not finding secondary transmission onward.".

But I will concede that it was too early in the game to make categorical statements, in my previous comment I even said "I'll chalk that up as excess zeal at best" wrt to WHO's backtracking the following day, as in they rather be safe than sorry.


You're confusing diagnosis with tracking.

vk, I thought I had properly separated both of my arguments with the ----------------.
1) I mention the study and the "asymptomatic transmission" issue;
2) I elaborate on "This arcs back to the question that has been haunting us, why are these tests being threshold at such high Ct values."

I know I am addressing two different issues in one comment, I further developed into citing the Case Definitions used by both Authorities in the matter, because these appear to explain the contrast in attitudes by both approaches. But also the study handed me authoritative Chinese data that I had not come across yet.

I am also pointing out that the Chinese have adopted a scientifically sound case definition based on established practice, primarily radiological imaging, while the European case definition is excessively zealous and adventurous a definition by primarily relying on rtPCR. It is the Europeans which are conflating confirmed cases with tracking methods.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 22 2020 23:56 utc | 63

@ Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 22 2020 23:56 utc | 63

"from this study".

Wuhan used PCR after the lockdown. Those specific cases are probably fragments of the virus, not active virus. Hence the asymptomatic cases - as per post-lockdown PCRs - were "unlikely to be infectious".

Wuhan's lockdown was successful. That's the overall conclusion of the study (there were zero symptomatic cases and 300 asymptomatic, none of which were infectious, i.e. they were likely shedding the virus, not incubating it).

Posted by: vk | Nov 23 2020 0:02 utc | 64

Exactly, vk, we are likely observing the falloff effect of the virus loads in a population which by that time had successfully overcome the epidemic. But those were or were not 300 asymptomatic ascertained via rtPCR tests, and as a matter of fact using the same Ct levels used in Europe (Ct ~35)? People which DID NOT transmit the virus to "1,174 close contacts", therefore provably not infectious.

The point I am making vk, is perhaps the reason a lockdown in China can be successful is because the Chinese employed it when based on reliable COVID-19 diagnoses as opposed to the Europeans which are imposing lockdowns based on rtPCR screenings which is surprisingly their official criteria for a "confirmed case".

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 23 2020 0:22 utc | 65

You can't actually write Catholic or Christian together with terrorist/terrorism but you can perfectly write Islamic terrorist in YouTube. First time i know about something like this.

Posted by: Lucci | Nov 23 2020 0:52 utc | 66

".....The bigger shock came on being told, at least twice, by Times editors who were describing the paper’s daily Page One meeting: “We set the agenda for the country in that room.” ....."


vanity! Vanity!!
They've done a piss poor job of it all the last few decades

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 23 2020 1:01 utc | 67

Venezuelan Dominion voting machines stole the election from Trump who won by a lot. This is the claim by Giuliani / Ellis and now I know it is untrue.

1. As stated before, the Georgia re-count proves that the Dominion electronic voting was reliable there.

2. In FOX's 'Media Buzz', they reported that Trump's 'Dream Team' is not going to file any lawsuits based on fraudulent Dominion voting. Really? If this switched millions of votes then this should be the primary avenue that the Dream Team pursues. So even they don't believe their own BS.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Nov 23 2020 1:10 utc | 68

* * CORRECTION * * s/Jenna Ellis/Sidney Powell/ <= In conflated these two women.

Sidney Powell is on the mega-MAGA 'Venezuela / Dominion' conspiracy theory. I don't know where Jenna Ellis stands but it was Powell who made that indelible impression on my in the Maria Bartiromo show. I'm glad because Ellis represented the long suffering Flynn. I'm glad that Ellis was not the loon that I confused her with on Bartiromo's show.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Nov 23 2020 1:23 utc | 69

It's interesting that Stephen Walt has decided to switch from blaming the pro-"Israel" lobby for what went wrong in AmeriKKKan politics, and now prefers to blame Trump. Will someone send Steve a copy of that obscure(?) 2007 masterpiece entitled The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy and jog his memory?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 23 2020 1:48 utc | 70

Is there a method to convert think tankers and "journalists" to specialized nurses?

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 23:36 utc | 61

I would not wish those think tankers/journalists converted nurses on my worst enemy. That would be considered gross malpractice.

Posted by: Quiet Rebel | Nov 23 2020 2:01 utc | 71

Short bolivian update cuz i hurt my fingr.
1. evo's return shows massive support. corporate media and fascists hoped evo would split from arce but they are tight. ollie vargas:
2. david choquehuanca is vp, aymara indian, has strong family ties to his home land, i haven't found english stuff on him yet but look for him. he is well learned in socialist theory, latin am. history, speaks and includes his native aymaran in his speeches, loves his wife of 40 years, wise, humble, fearless. friends with evo since 1984.
3. femenism, bolivian style. sabina orellana is minister of culture, decolonization, depatriarchy... why is there no english word for that?nothing in english on her yet. i'll work on it. the feminists there have fought fascists, buried their murdered kids, endured hunger, insults.they are very tough and don't back down.their hero is bartolina sisa, tupac amaru's wife 1750-1782 (not the rapper). here's her bio
Bolivia is rising! peru and guatemala are following. ecuador is poised to overwhelm the right in feb. elections. chile is pushing hard too. latin america is shaking the world!
that's it for now, almost lost a finger to a log splitter, sewed back on i think it's ok. peace to you all, deep thinkers with good hearts.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 23 2020 2:42 utc | 72

@ 72
Gracias, y buena suerte con tu dedo, migueljose.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 23 2020 2:55 utc | 73

Ojala que te mejores, migueljose.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 23 2020 2:55 utc | 74

That's all good news for Latin America!

Posted by: Smith | Nov 23 2020 3:48 utc | 75

migueljose #72

almost lost a finger to a log splitter, sewed back on i think it's ok. peace to you all, deep thinkers with good hearts.

Good healing to you brother, thank you for your enthusiasm. May they all rise against the northern parasite and drive it out.
Remember - close every embassy of the UKUSAi and Canada.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 23 2020 3:57 utc | 76

Coronavirus vaccine sabotage

Cursed be USA, Israel and Brazil.

Cursed be their politicians and enablers that make this assault on humanity.

May they be guillotined at the earliest moment for their gluttonous evil.

This is a crime against the global humanity and its rights and entitlement to medicines.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 23 2020 5:02 utc | 77

migueljose | Nov 23 2020 2:42 utc | 72

It has been my pleasure to tread you.

You heal your finger and continue doing what you do. Bestest to you and yours from this MOA reader.

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 23 2020 5:15 utc | 78

surely, that is read [not tread] above. CH

Posted by: chu teh | Nov 23 2020 5:18 utc | 79

Hugo Chavez will be FURIOUS about this. The Kraken was released from the team.

Posted by: Nick | Nov 23 2020 5:20 utc | 80

@Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 23 2020 5:02 utc | 77

Interesting read, thx.

The cynic/realist in me wonders what the Five Eyes will do to sabotage Cuba's vaccine.
Would they do something to a batch of Cuba's vaccine that would create bad publicity
and make people reluctant to use the Cuba vaccine?

Posted by: librul | Nov 23 2020 6:23 utc | 81

Sorry karlof1 as much as I would like to be incorrect, my take on the G20 is somewhat different than yours.
That final communique which according to AJnews on thursday (sure they're just another corporate vector most of the time but they did appear committed on this) was written before the 'summit began and is full of non-committal feelgood statements which tie none of the G20 to doing anything.
Kinda like the summits on Yemen where everyone promises billions yet delivers nothing, any debt relief will be contingent on impoverished nations selling their souls to the empire or one of its 'westernised' lackeys.

The 2nd tier imperialists who controlled this summit since amerika is still MIA, realise that their citizens are close to the end of their tether and need to be placated, so IMO they have released a cosmetic statement couched in PR tosh in a vain attempt to placate citizens.

one example is englander treasurer/chancellor of the exchequer Rishi Sunak stating that there will be "no return to austerity " insinuating that the income controls which have driven most britons to impoverishment since 2008 won't continue despite the pandemic.
Yet a day or so later the englander government announces a public service pay freeze - that workforce of 5.5 million workers has endured staff cuts and a drop in income since 2008, if whacking a pay freeze back on to that isn't austerity I dunno what is.

The G20 tosh where no one called out host Saudi for locking blokettes up for the crime of wanting to drive, but did talk much tosh about 'the people' is just more neolib neocon nonsense - up there with having a midget lesbian as 3rd in charge to distract attention from the people's inability to feed clothe & house themselves.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 23 2020 6:39 utc | 82

So b wants real, unbiased news reporting, huh? And yet for weeks now he's playing the Trump victim card here. Actually, for the past 4 years now, he'll have us believe Trump is the poor hostage of the Deep State forced into bed with that butcher MBS giving him billions to slaughter Yemeni civilians and children, forced to murder Soleimani and hundreds of Iraqi militia, forced to destroy the economy and livelihood of Iranians even during the pandemic, attempting to legalize Israeli Apartheid and creating a one-sided deal whereby Israel can steal the entire West Bank. According to b for the past 4 years the ambiguous Trump Administration committed those crimes cause Trump is really such a swell anti-war guy.

Here's some reporting just for you that tells it exactly like it is and doesn't pussy-foot around.:


Cause he's trying to void an election, erase the 6 million vote deficit he has with Biden and pull off a coup.

@77 Krazy Uncle

Now I disagreed with 90% of Obama's policies, but who put those sanctions on Cuba, after Obama took steps to normalize commercial relations with Cuba???


Posted by: Circe | Nov 23 2020 6:41 utc | 83

Oh, God I hope so!!!

Two-term prez

Gotcha! 😜

Posted by: Circe | Nov 23 2020 7:14 utc | 84

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 23 2020 5:02 utc | 77

I read that Russian vaccine will be be produced in India by one of the big Indian companies -- India has a large pharmaceutical sector. In the same time, Brazil is making a deal with China. Now that vaccines are on the horizon, countries will rush to get them to get out of vicious cycle of lockdowns, economic losses and the epidemic itself. In the situation where rich Western countries are in dire need and pressing to be in front of the line for western vaccines, the likes of South America or south Asia will have to fend for themselves, that means dealing with China and Russia.

Mind you, the government of Brazil is "mentally" extremely pro-American, but it is also even more pro-business, and that means pragmatic approach. For more months with no vaccine makes a multi-billion difference. India is quite pro-American but it has deep ties with Russia that remain important and will be reinforced. On the bright side for USA, the "nuclear" is in tip-top shape, and according to Forbes, the population is now used to large scale fatalities -- and tightening of belts, perfect for wars (but when this prospect will become a vote winner? Churchilian "blood and tear" speaches? Somehow I do not see that getting through focus groups).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 23 2020 7:42 utc | 85

Does the fact that even orangetan has disavowed Sydney Powell's lunatic claims about a Dominion voting machine's conspiracy mean that MoA will be no longer subjected to post after post of this tosh?

I dunno, I suppose many will claim this NYT story is fake news since it contains a statement by both orangetan & Guiliani disowning the loony one.
The disavowal is concise and to the point:

"Sydney Powell is Practicing law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team. She is also noti a lawyer for the president in his personal capacity."

signed by Rudy Guiliani, and Jenna Ellis Trump Campaign Senior Lega Advisor And Attorney for prez trump.

IMO the best part about it is that it stops anyone esp moi from having to point out that if Powell's ludicrous Dominion claims were correct, it would have required a huge conspiracy of at least one but more likely several corrupt officers at every polling station to destroy the original hard copies of every Trump ballot then reprint them with Biden as the pick at the same time as a hacker at every state polling HQ hacking the memory cards to ensure that when the hard copies were manually counted and recounted at every polling station the totals aligned with the data gathered with the 'hacked' results gathered electronically at state electoral HQ.
A huge conspiracy that given the characters of types corrupt enough to undertake such a thing would inevitably leak sooner rather than later.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 23 2020 8:00 utc | 86

Unconfirmed but,
Seems like Ansarullah has striked again.

From Spriter's Twitter account:

Another video ..... burning Aramco existence in Jeddah, Saudia, by fire- missiles of the Yemeni army

Posted by: v | Nov 23 2020 11:00 utc | 87

Every MSM: AstraZeneca's vaccine has 70% efficacy.

British MSM: AstraZeneca's vaccine has 90% efficacy.

And they still try to tell us there's such a thing as free press...

Posted by: vk | Nov 23 2020 11:41 utc | 88

Posted by: vk | Nov 22 2020 19:14 utc | 34

The Vote of Minerva gave you away, even before getting to the end of your post I new it was you.

A bit of trivia, a couple of pictures showing co-living in LA compared to George Washington’s slaves quarters in Mount Vernon:

The Guatemalan conundrum is more complex than what was described here, the pains suffered by a failed narco-mafiastate. An article by a center right paper, in Spanish which I think it should be no problem for you:

And yes, "la gusanera" is crowding itself all together in the land of the free..domfries.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 23 2020 12:26 utc | 89

@87 Debs

...disavowal concise and to the point

So wait a minute...ring master Trump and his travelling bumbling lawyer circus disavowing Sidney Powell's farcical stretch of credulity, as not really being part of the rest of the Wild Allegations act, is somehow a redeeming breakthrough in the continuing saga of How to steal an election and pull off a coup while tripping over your over-sized clown shoes...?

No, this disavowal sequel will not help Trump KKKult kaptives see the writing on the wall and neither will shining the light of logic at their Trump-induced brain fog.

Time to use the hook on Daffy Trump.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 23 2020 13:46 utc | 90

My 91 correction:

Actually it's Donald Duck! HAAAAA! That's even better!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 23 2020 14:03 utc | 91

AstraZeneca press release here making what seem to be some pretty amazing statistical claims (p<0.0001), n= many thousands, but this would seem to apply to the phase II claims of there not being immediate harm from injection. The phase III "effectiveness" should refer to the the number of people they believe were exposed, vs the number of people infected. The number exposed must be inferred from the control group, and this number is on the order of 100, thus all this 90% vs 95% business comes with quite a bit of uncertainty.

Posted by: ptb | Nov 23 2020 14:06 utc | 92

Tikhanovskaya finds a new, cushy job in Lithuania:

Тихановская нашла работу в Литве

Former presidential candidate of Belarus Svetlana Tikhanovskaya will open a "legal center" in Lithuania, which will take into account all violations of the rights and freedoms of citizens of Belarus.

This statement was made by the oppositionist at a meeting with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands Mark Rutte.

Boy oh boy - being a failed color revolutionary is quickly becoming a very lucrative business. But fair is fair: Europe and the USA have been exploiting the Third World for centuries, not more just than the Thirdworlders to get some of that wealth back.


Garry Kasparov wants to give Crimea back to Ukraine - without a new referendum, without a transition period, no questions asked:

Отдать Крым без разговоров: ничего нового на Форуме свободной России

In general, Russia should abandon what Kasparov calls "imperial politics": " This includes renouncing all annexations and claims to any territories that were previously part of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union . Imperial politics in the 21st century. brings nothing but troubles and disappointments, including Russia itself."

Funny how the liberal democrats throw democracy away like a used condom when it doesn't align with their geopolitical agenda...

Posted by: vk | Nov 23 2020 14:12 utc | 93

Posted by: ptb | Nov 23 2020 14:06 utc | 93

"The phase III "effectiveness" should refer to the the number of people they believe were exposed, vs the number of people infected. The number exposed must be inferred from the control group, and this number is on the order of 100, thus all this 90% vs 95% business comes with quite a bit of uncertainty.

Well, that's a good point. Whenever somebody in one of these statistical extravaganzas comes out with something like: "this wonder drug is 87.3% effective" you know they are blowing smoke, because they actually have < 1.5 significant digits at best. An honest statement is we think it's somewheres in the 80-90% range, if we get a few more like this we will start to feel confident", but that doesn't impress the rubes.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 23 2020 14:17 utc | 94

Sir Keir Starmer...You explain me how a "Sir", in the British sense of the term, can be the leader of a "labour" party...unless what the party represents is anything except the working class..
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 22 2020 22:04 utc | 52

Hey H, I think his title is no more appropriate that his name in Farsi. Literally (when written) translated: tip of the penis.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 23 2020 14:28 utc | 95

@ vk 94
In general, Russia should abandon what Kasparov calls "imperial politics"
This is actually a veiled warning to keep the US from snatching Taiwan away from China. /s

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 23 2020 14:43 utc | 96

Keep in mind that almost all the millions of "cases" world wide are PCR cycle count of 40 as well as most of the "death with Covid-19" deaths.

"Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates"

"...Bullard et al reported that patients could not be contagious with Ct >25 as the virus is not detected in culture above this value ..."

Posted by: jef | Nov 23 2020 15:17 utc | 97

Very interesting take down of the "pandemic" by former pfizer vp.

Posted by: jef | Nov 23 2020 15:20 utc | 98

I have difficulty accepting the idea that one human being, like “Trump,” is worthy of so much vituperation like there has been both out in the world and mirrored in these threads, especially by those who place the blame for all that is wrong with everything squarely upon his head. And run on and on out of their heads with loathing.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that every human being, and particularly those who choose the troubled path of a political existence, are the product of “influences.” In the public sphere, “powerful” influences that can be anywhere between threatening to vast sums of unimaginable wealth to an unknowable divinity or chance or luck or fortune, if you prefer. Probably way beyond the grasp of any human being. No matter how much is said in public about “god.”

The one person steadily growing more and more brain dead in willing to accept these surges and cosmological tides, is probably just a product of the push and pull and not much else, just colorful, or annoying, or however.

It seems really naive to put blame on one thing. One pathetic human mortal being.

Posted by: Geoff | Nov 23 2020 15:22 utc | 99

Next-level Orwellian propaganda:

Your Brain Is Not for Thinking

This is extremely sophisticated, degenerate propaganda. Nothing ever produced in the USSR came even close to this.

Posted by: vk | Nov 23 2020 15:22 utc | 100

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