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November 15, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-90

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

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Other issues:

On Ant's canceled initial public offering, China and money:

Ethiopia's Nobel Peace Price lauded dictator launched a civil war:

Six weeks before Brexit Britain's government is extremely busy:

Covid 19:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on November 15, 2020 at 14:48 UTC | Permalink

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This is an excellent analysis of the Trump situation.
It is to be found at the Steel City Scribblings blog.
http://steelcityscribblings.uk/wp/2020/11/15/why-did-trump-get-so-many-votes/
I'm not sure how accessible that link is so here is the intro:
The central question of US politics is why Trump won the second largest number of votes in US history, and the answer is that he delivered a lot to his constituency.

In 2016 real median household income in the US was $62,898, just $257 above the level in 1999. That’s two decades of income stagnation, in fact for a large part of the last two decades median income had actually been falling. Under Trump by 2019 the median income grew to $68,703. Last month 56% of US polled voters said their families were better off today than they were four years ago.

For the first three years of his presidency, Trump produced steady growth (which a number of presidents have managed) in which a disproportionate share of the gains went to low-income workers (a much rarer feat). Workers in the lowest quarter of incomes saw their wages rise almost 5 per cent. This was the first sustained downward redistribution of income and wealth since the last century, a vindication for voters in the forgotten parts of the country who voted for Mr Trump in 2016. It may account for the unexpected and marked rise in support for Trump from young Latinos and black men.

Trump also delivered on other promises, or least could make a plausible claim to have delivered. He brought troops home and avoided foreign wars, and it’s mostly the poorer communities who suffer the casualties in such wars. He also very publicly challenged China, even if that challenge was clumsy. The Democrats barely mentioned China, rightly seen by many in the old collapsing industrial communities as one of the main sources of their local economic decline, and in fact have been talking with great enthusiasm for the last few decades about increasing free trade.1

Mike Davis in a very interesting article in the London Review of Books entitled “Rio Grande Valley Republicans”, examines how Trump won, and the Democrats lost, the communities of poor Mexicans living along the border in Texas. Davis writes:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n22/mike-davis/short-cuts

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15 2020 14:53 utc | 1



Trump is regarded as having produced an economic miracle but the reality is not as it is depicted in bevin's post. There were more jobs created in Obama's last three years in office than there were in Trump's first three years. Growth during Obama's last three years was 2.3 percent during the last three years of his administration. Grow increased to 2.5 percent yearly during Trump's first three years. Two tenths of one percent is not a miracle, it is a blip and it came at a price. When Obama took office, the deficit was 1.2 trillion. When he left office it was 585 billion. Trump inherited a 585 billion dollar deficit and in three years, before any Covid-19 spending took place, increased it to 984 billion by the end of '19, before any Covid spending took place. Obama cut a massive deficit he inherited by more than half. By contrast, Trump was on track to double the deficit in four years. Reagan is lauded for created growth but he also more than doubled the deficit. That is the "miracle" of Republican economics, massive deficit spending. Reagan, Bush and Trump all took the same approach. Clinton cut the deficit to zero. Obama cut it in half. The Republican approach only works in the short term. Trump was applying the same magic that he applied to the six companies he drove into bankruptcy.

When you slash taxes while increasing spending, you will get a strong burst of growth but it is not sustainable. Eighty three percent of the tax cut Trump enacted went to the richest 1 percent. Under Trump, inequality has increased dramatically. Every year of Trump's administration set a new trade record high. That doesn't suggest he succeeded in his trade negotiations. He promised to dramatically decrease the national debt but did precisely the opposite.

I'm amused when people claim Trump kept his campaign promises. US troops are still mired in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. He did not end the "forever wars." He extended them for four years. When Iraq wanted to negotiate the withdrawal of US troops, Trump's response was to threatened to impose on Iraq sanctions that were far worse than those imposed on Iran. Trump continued to assist in the Saudis industrial scale slaughter of Yemenis. Trump has on several occasions proclaimed publicly that the US was in Syria "To keep the oil." He stated that he regrets that that the US did not keep Iraq's oil as well. Trump has hired a Texas energy company to participate in "taking" Syria's oil. The US presence in Syria is a violation of international law. So is pumping its oil. It is called pillaging. Trump's actions against Venezuela are acts of war. They included a Bay of Pigs like assault that the US no doubt at least tacitly approved. Trump promised to build a wall across the nearly 2000 mile long border with Mexico that would be paid for by Mexico. He built five miles of new war and Mexico didn't contribute a penny. That was one of his central promises and he didn't come close to accomplishing it. It will take four hundred years to finish at the rate Trump achieved. Another major promise was that he would repeal the Affordable Care Act and replace it with a plan he said would be, "Beautiful." He said his "beautiful" new plan would be better and cheaper than the Affordable Care act. He proposed nothing whatsoever. Trump promised that he would not cut Medicare, Social Security or Medicaid but his budgets all proposed slashing all three.

Trump didn't come close to fulfilling his campaign promises. His economy is no "miracle." It is a house of cards that is poised to collapse.

Posted by: David | Nov 15 2020 15:57 utc | 2

Moving this awesome *Whitney Webb* interview forward from my late night posting of it on an old (2020-89) open thread:

Very good broad-ranging interview of Whitney Webb (starts at ~min 49; runs for ~56 min) and she covers a ton of current topics ( election, election fraud, great reset/4th industrial revolution, dark winter, covid, rushed warp speed vaccine program run by same (bioport/bioemergent solutions) actors associated with Bush 43 anthrax scare/amerithrax fbi investigation/coverup of ~2 decades ago, Q psyop,
IOT Surveillance state panopticon, and wait, there's more).

Very worrisome, but very believable and relevant to what is going on now.

https://youtu.be/SE031deuThc?t=2940

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 8:09 utc | 230

I came away after listening to Whitney's talk, thinking to myself: "Oh-oh...Has *Skynet* just gone 'live' or something...?"

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 16:02 utc | 3

bevin @Nov15 14:53 #1

The central question of US politics is why Trump won the second largest number of votes in US history, and the answer is that he delivered a lot to his constituency.

Cherry-picked nonsense. Trump ran against the chimera of a "radical left" consisting of socialists and violent Antifa with a healthy dose of racist dog whistles thrown in the mix. His SAVE AMERICA! propaganda was very effective at getting his minions to the polls.

Trump didn't end wars (afghanistan, syria, yemen); didn't make peace (north korea, israeli-palestinian); didn't protect Americans (pandemic lies); didn't "end Obamacare on day one"; didn't fight the deep state (just teasing us) or clean the swamp; and didn't "lock her up" (hillary).

Trump's #winning was staged: Democrats that shoot themselves in the foot again and again (Russiagate, impeachment); Gulf Arabs making peace with Israel (mostly done before Trump and USA Deep State can bring enormous pressure on the pampered monarchs); beating Covid-19 (seems faked with Walter Reed Hospital used as a prop).

Trump danced with the Saudi's; gave Israel everything he could; terminated multiple arms treaties; conducted a YUGE arms build-up and militarized space; cut taxes; and bailed out Wall Street and Boeing. In short, just what we'd expect from a U.S. President that works for the globalist establishment and the EMPIRE FIRST Deep State.

=
Last month 56% of US polled voters said their families were better off today than they were four years ago.

In the middle of a pandemic, they say that they are better off? LOL.

Who did the polling?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15 2020 16:04 utc | 4

I watched a fascinating interview with Steve Bannon on PBS (2:26:25) which covers a range of topics from how he and Trump came to be, how Trumpism started how the Establishment GOP hates Trump, how Fox and Murdoch tried to sabotage Trump’s campaign before it even started and many more interesting things.

The interviewer is not a political hack and the interview is free flowing.

https://youtu.be/pm5xxlajTW0

Posted by: Down South | Nov 15 2020 16:14 utc | 5

The USA is Atlantis and the Titanic rolled into one. Get to higher ground!

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 15 2020 16:18 utc | 6


Citing Trump getting the second highest number of votes in a presidential election without noting that he got beaten decisively in the popular vote for the second time is the approach Trump supporters like bevin use to make what in reality is an untenable case. Trump claimed he won by "a landslide" in the electoral college in '16 when he got 306 electoral votes but his supporters claim that when his opponent defeats him with the same number of electoral votes and what is likely to end up with over 6 million more popular votes, it was a close election that proves he "delivered a lot to his constituency." Please stop with this nonsense bevin.

Posted by: David | Nov 15 2020 16:25 utc | 7

On Ant's canceled initial public offering, China and money:

Ant, Uber, and the true nature of money - Cory Doctorow / Pluralistic


Cory Doctorow is known to be far left, liberal and quite critical of China. When he is telling you that China is doing something right, that means you should pay attention.

Posted by: SunOfAlabama | Nov 15 2020 16:30 utc | 8

Just a reminder ——-
Any violence on the streets of America was directly or indirectly a result of police violents toward the black community.
Anti-fascists are anti violence and pro self defence.
Trump supporters always deliberately try to turn that reality upside down just as they and the elite lie about other country’s being their enemy.
Don’t loose grip guys, I know it’s hard for you.
Both the Black community and Antifa want to live in peace.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 15 2020 16:45 utc | 9

“Trump supporters like Bevin”

Does anybody believe Trump supporters read the London Review of Books?
Demanding perfect conformity is fascism. I kinda liked many of david’s comments, disappointed and warned.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 15 2020 16:49 utc | 10


@ #1


"Trump also delivered on other promises, or least could make a plausible claim to have delivered. He brought troops home and avoided foreign wars,"

Why do people still pretend presidents have anything to do with foreign or economic policy ??

Puppet after puppet have come and gone and every one of them has proven to be nothing more than a total charlatan following orders and applying the policy goals of the billionaire funded think tanks.

It's so sad people have been dumbed down to the point that they can't even realize their own foreign policy has been domestic policy in the US since its inception.

Why does it never occur to folks that redeploying troops or giving them leave right before an election might just be a temporary political calculation ???

If voting had any effect on policy goals, it would immediately be made illegal. The elite would never allow a 50% chance that their "investments" might lose.

Can we stop with the false narrative that we can elect a superman or superwoman "of the people" that will intimidate the capitalist ruling elite class already ?? This is one of the major reasons we're sliding into global totalitarianism via corporate fascism. Everyone is fast asleep still dreaming the "American dream".

Please stop adding to the noise, you're just validating the propaganda.

Posted by: dave | Nov 15 2020 16:50 utc | 11

I am a long time and enthousiastic reader of MoA, but sometimes I got puzzled how B. puts "tags" on individuals and/or situations, without further analysis: "Ethiopia's Nobel Peace Price lauded dictator launched a civil war". Why Abiy is a dictator? Is B aware of the internal forces within Ethiopia trying to desestabilize the country? And finally, is Abyi who launched the war? "The TPLF dominated Ethiopia’s government before Abiy took office in 2018, but its power has since waned. Abiy’s government launched military operations in Tigray on Wednesday, after he accused the TPLF of attacking a military camp in the region and attempting to loot military assets. The TPLF denies the attack and has accused Abiy of concocting the story to justify deploying the military." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/05/ethiopian-military-claims-to-be-at-war-with-tigray-leaders

If Abyi is a dictator, despite the positive changes he has so far brought to the country, what it was Hailemariam Desalegn or Meles Zenawi? Are you aware of the change that Abiy has brought to Ethiopian politics and huma rights compared to his predecesors?

Posted by: Jenaro | Nov 15 2020 17:00 utc | 12

SunOfAlabama | Nov 15 2020 16:30 utc | 8
"Cory Doctorow is known to be far left"
He is mostly about reforming capitalism.

David | Nov 15 2020 15:57 utc | 2
And then there's all that beautiful coal.

Posted by: Keith McClary | Nov 15 2020 17:04 utc | 13

Matthew Porges will help anyone trying to understand the end of the ceasefire between #Morocco and #WesternSahara after Morocco's violation of the agreement that has been in place since 1991.

https://twitter.com/matthew_porges

Posted by: Mikel | Nov 15 2020 17:36 utc | 14

Geronamaker@ 14

I didn’t warn” anyone but myself. Bernhard supervises this bar. Bernhard is not a Trump tool.

Seldom do I agree with much that bevin says and usually skip his posts. Imagining he is a Trump tool is ludicrous.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 15 2020 17:47 utc | 15

@9 Mark2...Um no Antifa are the 21st century Brownshirts, as evidenced by their actions. Shouting down positions different than theirs, threatening Violence, creating mayhem any where opposite opinions are expressed, and in general extiguishing individual freedom and cultivating fear to speak out. They are being used/supported by TPTB to divide populaces, in much the same form that BLM has been coopted. Your unquestioning support of them outs you as a wannabe Fascist and a useful sheep. I encourage you to just exit the fascist closet and be who you are. You can thank me later.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 15 2020 17:51 utc | 16

“Trump supporters like Bevin”

Does anybody believe Trump supporters read the London Review of Books?


Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 15 2020 16:49 utc | 10

____

Believing that reading the LRB signifies anything other than the ability to read is laughable, tbh

Posted by: Triden | Nov 15 2020 17:55 utc | 17

thanks b!

@ SunOfAlabama | Nov 15 2020 16:30 utc | 8... i liked this quote from the article..

"But the whole point of a finance regulator is NOT to let the finance sector write its own rules.
That's because bankers will cheerfully set the whole economy on fire to turn a buck (see, e.g., America)."

i am not sure how it goes with china.... it seems we have a group of posters at moa that are convinced china is on the righteous path.. then there are a few of us who aren't so sure about that... personally i think china will screw the world just as much as the usa-west have with their own version of neo-liberalism run amok... i will be happy to be wrong too..

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2020 18:03 utc | 18

Fascism in the streets of the US right now, and no liberal media cover it, this is how media/msm will react now under Biden - with silence when protesters from the other side are attacked, such a disgrace

Media takes heat for ignoring violent attacks on Trump supporters at MAGA rally
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/media-coverage-million-maga-march-trump-conservatives-violent-antifa

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 15 2020 18:07 utc | 19

Trump lawyer says she’s about to ‘release the Kraken’: ‘I’m going to expose every one of them’

Sidney Powell, a former federal prosecutor and member of President Donald Trump’s legal team, said Friday night his campaign has collected a mountain of evidence revealing widespread election fraud linked to Dominion Voter Systems software.

In an interview with Fox Business Network’s Lou Dobbs, Powell said the company’s software was initially created to “produce altered results” in Venezuelan elections in favor of the late left-wing leader Hugo Chavez but has since been exported to other countries for the purpose of stealing elections, including in the United States.

“I can hardly wait to put forth all the evidence we have collected on Dominion,” she said, adding that the software was funded by money from Venezuela and Cuba.

“China has a role in it also. So if you wanna talk about foreign interference, we certainly have it now,” she continued.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/11/14/trump-lawyer-says-shes-about-to-release-the-kraken-im-going-to-expose-every-one-of-them-996267

https://www.infowars.com/posts/im-going-to-release-the-kraken-sidney-powell-vows-to-expose-dem-collusion-behind-dominion-voting-systems/

Posted by: Mao | Nov 15 2020 18:08 utc | 20

Concerning "imperialism in pumps", it can take inspiration from Wagner. This is an unusually lightweight and youthful rendition of the battle cry of a walkyrie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRQoVnO2m8w

And this is the rendition by Deborah Wasserman Schultz a former Chair of the Democratic National Committee (parental guidance suggested):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtiAMQ_inwg

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 15 2020 18:12 utc | 21

Did the US Raid European Software Company Scytl and Seize their Servers in Germany? — Company Refutes Claims?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/us-raid-software-company-scytl-seize-servers-germany-intel-source-says-yes-happened/

Scytl Company Website Crashes – Company Reportedly Released Statement, Refuting Reports of US Raid in Germany
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/scytl-company-website-crashes-company-reportedly-released-statement-refuting-reports-us-raid-germany/

Posted by: Mao | Nov 15 2020 18:13 utc | 22

bevin

What you say is true, that doesnt matter for the left today, just watch your critics below your comment.

Left today is pro war, pro wall street and blm and antifa causes, globalism, and international trade deals that outsource jobs to asia - thats why they hate Trump, he fought all that.
Heck even the dumbfounded left support FBI today, who would have thought? Why? They are against Trump so then they root for the FBI. Absurd!


GDP rebounded by record 33% annual rate last quarter, but resurgent pandemic threatens recovery
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-10-29/us-economy-coronavirus-unemployment-gdp-third-quarter

Wall Street drops Donald Trump in favor of Joe Biden
https://www.dw.com/en/wall-street-drops-donald-trump-in-favor-of-joe-biden/a-55420944

Bush-era neocons put their weight behind Biden. And that can mean only one thing.
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2020/07/11/bush-era-neocons-put-their-weight-behind-biden-and-that-can-mean-only-one-thing/

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 15 2020 18:21 utc | 23

dave@11 Yes, indeedy. "Why do people still pretend presidents have anything to do with foreign or economic policy ??

Puppet after puppet have come and gone and every one of them has proven to be nothing more than a total charlatan following orders and applying the policy goals of the billionaire funded think tanks."

Nothing could be further from the truth. Of course, some prezzies are deeper in the pockets of the MICIMATT than others...but it matters not, really. Since WWII for sure.

This does NOT make one a supporter of either bloke - hardly.

Spin is the name of the game...Orwellian, of course. Edward Herman and David Peterson (and earlier Mr Herman and Mr Chomsky) are an essential read (yes...hundreds of pages). So too...Mr Blair (Eric not the fucker Tony).

Posted by: Anne | Nov 15 2020 18:26 utc | 24

Sorry dave @11 - I meant nothing could be CLOSER to the truth...My apologies...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 15 2020 18:28 utc | 25

The interviewer is not a political hack...

@Posted by: Down South | Nov 15 2020 16:14 utc | 5

When you give air time in in the waves to fascist, definitely you are a political hack, whatever the disguise of neutrality and lack of special interest you could choose to wear at the moment.

Bannon is a fascist, a person trying to spread hatred and divide to. not only the US, but at least also to the EU, US allies.
All this based on no more than personal frustation issues with whatever merit he has not so far recognized enough ( as happens with all fascists, btw, see Hitler inferiority complex..) and personality issues with his way of being, which includes a lot of problems in dealing with women in a sane way.
All this he has tried to sublimate into a pretended political ideology, which by including points and Marxists ways of vindicating old grievances of the masses, tries to gain these for their project by fooling them on who they are not, as he did Hitler, resulting in an impossible from where to catch mess which materailize in breaking apart whatever humanity could have built of civilization so far, so that to built from smithereens to give it the opportunity for resurgence of a new world where he, and his kind, can finally find themeselves at the top, a goal they know are only able to achieve by causing enough turmoil, and terror, as through democratic means would be impossible.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 18:37 utc | 26

Does anybody have any insight into what's going on in Peru? Reports indicate protests in response to the impeachment of Pres Vizcarra and his replacement by Manuel Merino have been met with a heavy-handed police response, but it's unclear who or what triggered all this. Thanks.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Nov 15 2020 18:40 utc | 27

@David,

You captured the Democrat modus operandi so well. They lie about fiscal constraints so that they "cannot" deliver their campaign promises, and clean up the fiscal mess left by the Republicans - without reversing any of the massive tax cuts on the rich. Then in come the Republicans and spend like crazy as it seems that they "can" deliver for their constituents no matter what the fiscal position. We are now getting the Dem part of the process once again, when will "good ol Joe" start cutting US pensions ("social security") because of such fiscal constraints while of course keeping up military spending?

Roger

Posted by: Roger | Nov 15 2020 18:44 utc | 28

Just wanted to let all the barflies now that Canada's CBC has a new docu-series, "The Rise of the Murdoch Empire". Lots of talk on MoA about Bannon and Murdoch, so I thought this might be of interest. The first episode, Kingmaker, is available online now. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. Given what's taking place in the AngloSphere at the moment, this series could contain some revealing bits of info (we lesser Anglo nations are sometimes used by superior Anglo sources as vents for compromising info).

https://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/episodes/the-rise-of-the-murdoch-empire

Posted by: Quasi Retired anonym | Nov 15 2020 18:47 utc | 29

Speaking of compromising info, Canada's CBC news program, The National, is frequently, although not always, a good source. The most significant show of the week is the one on Sunday evening. It starts at 9 PM EST.

https://twitter.com/cbcthenational

Posted by: Quasi Retired anonym | Nov 15 2020 18:59 utc | 30

@Posted by: Mao | Nov 15 2020 18:08 utc | 21

RE: "In an interview with Fox Business Network’s Lou Dobbs, Powell said the company’s software was initially created to “produce altered results” in Venezuelan elections *in favor of* the late left-wing leader Hugo Chavez but has since been exported to other countries for the purpose of stealing elections, including in the United States.

I think Sidney Powell must either have her wires crossed and meant to say "*against* the left-wing leader Hugo Chavez...", or was she was just reciting the official US propaganda line.

Dominion was founded in 2002, and it bought out both Bush 43-loving Diebold (Remember Bev "black box voting" Harris's and Greg Palast's exposes of Diebold after the 2001 Bush-gore election?) and sketchy Sequoia Systems voting box companies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems

Bush 43 deep state tried to overthrow Chavez several time so it is very doubtful Diebold/Dominion ever would have been used to rig Vz elections in 2002 to *help* CH get elected.

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 19:01 utc | 31

@ 25

"Nothing could be further from the truth. Of course, some prezzies are deeper in the pockets of the MICIMATT than others...but it matters not, really. Since WWII for sure."

Elections have been an absolute joke in this country for over a century now at least. The US is and always has been an oligarchy/plutocracy. Any president not in the pocket of the covert community is executed and so are other members of their family just to make an example out of them.

The robber barons prove that even before the Kennedy's the covert community and MIC were owned exclusively by the elite for the purpose of "furthering their interests" under the premise of "furthering American interests".

There's no way in hell the elite would ever allow a peasant to spoil their loot and pillage quest upon humanity.

The spin is a new version of the same BS dating back to the divine right of kings era where the King and his useful idiots would spin anything and everything in order to maintain and or obtain more power over a larger area.

Top vs bottom has been spun into race, religion, ethnicity, geography, pure superstition, and right vs left, conservative vs liberal, globalist vs isolationist, etc etc, etc.....

Global control over all the peasants is what the goal is and has been for quite some time now.

WEF’s ‘Great Reset’ Plan for Big Food is NOT good news…

GMOs, lab-grown protein & cocktails of pharmaceuticals await us

https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/14/world-economic-forums-great-reset-plan-for-big-food-benefits-industry-not-people/

We're all just "growth opportunities" to the capitalist class since they've eliminated economic competition and are pointing our own weapons upon us using the virus to replace the war of terror that no longer can be believed by anyone with even a fraction of functioning brain cells.

Get ready to wake up in a corporate industrial zone you used to call your "country"...

It's really amazing how much is buried and marginalized now that the elite have legalized their fraud and mass murder tactics.

WHO, Pharma, Gates & Government: Who’s Calling the Shots?

https://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2019/WHO,-Pharma,-Gates.aspx

The elite see the p(l)andemic as yet another opportunity to cement their family legacy and gain absolute control over anything of value or necessary to sustain life.

This is the entitlement syndrome us peasants have been accused of for decades now on steroids.

We're just along for the ride.

Keep voting harder and harder though if it eases your mind.

Posted by: dave | Nov 15 2020 19:11 utc | 32

Cummings was fired by Joe Biden/Harris call. They are trying to blame Johnson girlfriend. British elite trying to save their face hahaha

Posted by: Nick | Nov 15 2020 19:13 utc | 33

How and why Trump managed 71 million votes is a very appropriate question and efforts to analyze this shouldn't be abruptly dismissed. I have noticed many partisan Democrats in USA are content to label all Trump voters as deplorable racist incipient fascists, and leave it at that.

Jeff St Clair's weekly column in CounterPunch had interesting stat: the 5 million popular vote margin of victory for Biden matches the Trump/Biden gap in California alone. Further, if one removes the three Pacific coast states - California, Oregon, Washington - from the totals, then Trump wins popular vote by 1.5 million. That's just a thought game, but shows the support for Trump was relatively widespread.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 15 2020 19:19 utc | 34

@Posted by: Jenaro | Nov 15 2020 17:00 utc | 12

No, we are not aware of that, what we become aware by reading the three thorough excellent reports, of varied sources, linked by B, is that he is not only mixed Muslim/Christian, but also, and most important here, funded by KSA and UAE, just the sunni extremists major players in the "Colation of the Willing", war of extermination on Yemen, both with lowest scores in human rights in the world, who, in spite of that, count with the full support of not only the "Champion of Democracy and the Free World", the US, but, I guess, due your complaints, also "Great Watchover of the West", the UK, both involved to the tilt in the Yemen genocide by providing not only mass destruction weapons to KSA and UAE and myriad of PMC killing national people there, but also trainers and mercenaries, while reports there were in the first times of the genocidal war on the peoples of Yemen that "coalition of the willing" aircrafts were managed by Israeli pilots taking off from UAE airfields...

There is no way the Tigrayans would assault any military detachment to achieve military assets, since they have no need, as they conform major part of Ethiopian army and hold a quite respectable arsenal, as one of the reports linked by b so thoroughly explains.

Abyi Ahmed "democratic efforts" passed through elimination any other ethnic Ethiopian group historically present from government and, not only, but also eliminating regional authonomy and right gurarantedd by the Constitution the Ethiopian peoples, along the Eritreans ( once a united people ) awarded themselves, and which included the right of self-determination/secession of any region in case it could feel like to do so, and it is precisely because of that the Eritrean nation currently exists, in the first place.

Your "democratic" candidate IS NOT the president elect, but a fruit of a "peaceful transition of power" from the previous elected PM, which refuses to hold new elections as was agreed when the previoud elected PM resigned in his favor. He has continuously ignored claims from the regions to hold new elections, perpetuating himself in power against the will of the Ethiopian people ( benefiting as so many others in this from the Covid-19 pandemic, which starts appearing all the way as a means to reshape the world geopoliticaly, after we have witnessed how in the term of few weeks the borders of two European countriies have changed in the Caucasus...). In that scenario, the Tigrayans, to the webs of seeing their right to participate in Ethiopian politcal life erased, and without any perpective of returning, decided to hold regional elections by themselves, in their right guaranteed by the federal Constitution, to which Abyi Ahmed responded sending in the army, declaring a war on his own nationals. More or less the same procedure like in Yemen, oye, what a casuality!

To help crushing this increasing resistance from Tigray, and other regions like Oromo, to his increasingly tyrannical rule, in search of making of Ethiopia a new African Empire, becoming himself the new Emperor of Ethiopia, of course ( as he most probably has been promised by certain foreign powers ) he cut off water, electricity and communication from the Tigray region, in a clear intend to exterminate its whole population what was contested with armed isurrection which is the right thing to do when you are on the verge of being terminated.

While most of the neighboring nations/countries wish the peace and estability to return and claimed for peaceful negotiations, Eritrean current dictator meddled in favor of "PM encargado" Ahmed ( go to know what promises from KSA and UAE/US /UK..) producing in the way some false flags to blame the Tigrayans, which make him candiate for a fair retaliation, as jus happened in a unique Eritrean location, Asmara airport, for him to be aware of the convenience of minding his own business.

What Abyi Ahmed is doing is, instead of nation building, destroying the delicate ethinc social fabric constructed through decades in Ethiopia, destroy the Federal Democratic People´s Republic, to rebuilt from ashes a new African Empire, and, on behalf of whom would be this? Well, support from KSA and UAE, the same "nation builders" acting in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, through their porxies and means, and other places, could give and idea...I bet the US/UK and Israel in the current run up for resources, after China had become a good economic partner of Ethiopia, and to cause instability in the region when Russia just reached an agreement with South Sudan to have there a naval base...

RYou should read more apart from The Guardian and Legoland teleprompter...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 19:24 utc | 35

H.Schmatz @ 27

It is quite clear you did not watch the interview which is simply an insiders guide to the 2016 Trump campaign as he talks about the goings on in the campaign which wasn’t public knowledge.

Then you start throwing in references to Hitler with liberal sprinklings of “fascist”with a straight face to somehow bolster your argument and then expect me to take you seriously?

Posted by: Down South | Nov 15 2020 19:25 utc | 36

@ Anne | 26

Ha ! Oh well, it's all good. You just got me up on my soap box again is all. It really doesn't take all that much to do unfortunately.

Take care and stay sane, things will get very interesting going forward. I'm hopeful and somewhat half expecting the elite to completely over extend their advantage and fail. We all know they're lazy, and rely on others to do their bidding and history proves their innate ability to f*ck up a two car parade.

Peace.

Posted by: dave | Nov 15 2020 19:30 utc | 37

Anne@25 I'd also like to recommend "The Tomorrow File" by Lawrence Anderson. Another good dystopian read in the vane of Huxley and Orwell.

Posted by: Shadow | Nov 15 2020 19:35 utc | 38

...expect me to take you seriously?

Posted by: Down South | Nov 15 2020 19:25 utc | 37

You can take me how it pleases you, since I advnance, if did not clear clear during this campaign, I do not take it seriously anybody suppoeting Trump or Bannon.

In fact, anybody supporting Bannon, I consider it my swron enemy as that ugly thug dedicated these past ecade to train here the most despicable fascists organizations with dark funding, as it is always the casem like happened in Albania/Kosovo, to try to overthrow our governments in Europe.

I think he should be trialed in the ICC.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 19:40 utc | 39

More popcorn needed. Sidney Powell, Michael Flynn's attorney, and now on Trump's legal team, is investigating Dominion for voter fraud. Powell says that she is "going to release the Kraken"!

Popcorn! Popcorn!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFCXPw1t17o

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Nov 15 2020 19:42 utc | 40

Shadow@39 oops, I meant Lawrence Sanders.

Posted by: Shadow | Nov 15 2020 19:42 utc | 41

Philip Giraldi on the dangers of the fascist Joe Biden
Neocons Poised to Join New Government

Biden appears poised to inherit many former Obama White House senior officials, who would consider the eager-to-please neoconservatives a comfortable fit as fellow foot soldiers in the new administration. Foreign policy hawks expected to have senior positions in the Biden Administration include Antony Blinken, Nicholas Burns, Susan Rice, Valerie Jarrett, Samantha Power and, most important of all the hawkish Michele Flournoy, who has been cited as a possible secretary of defense.
Nowhere in Biden’s possible foreign policy circle does one find anyone who is resistant to the idea of worldwide interventionism in support of claimed humanitarian objectives, even if it would lead to a new cold war with major competitor powers like Russia and China. In fact, Biden himself appears to embrace an extremely bellicose view on a proper relationship with both Moscow and Beijing “claiming that he is defending democracy against its enemies.” His language is unrelenting, so much so that it is Donald Trump who could plausibly be described as the peace candidate in the recently completed election, having said at the Republican National Convention in August “Joe Biden spent his entire career outsourcing their dreams and the dreams of American workers, offshoring their jobs, opening their borders and sending their sons and daughters to fight in endless foreign wars, wars that never ended.”

https://www.globalresearch.ca/neocons-poised-join-new-government/5729368

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 15 2020 19:52 utc | 42

H.Schmatz @ 40

In fact, anybody supporting Bannon, I consider it my swron enemy

Really? This is beyond pathetic.

It’s not about supporting anyone. It is about gaining more knowledge of a particular time in American history from an insiders perspective. Nothing more nothing less.

Please don’t address anymore posts to me. You are no less deranged than Mark2.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 15 2020 19:52 utc | 43

Just a nasty little question that came to me yesterday;

Monsanto was (before the merger with Beyer) trying to patent the "living", as it's OG modified plants were "new" living beings and therefore "belonged" to it.. Similar example; are the "Frankenfish", modified Salmon/eels, considered as "belonging" to their creator as well? The question is this. Does the Pfizer vaccine, which also modifies your genetic structure, mean that all those who get vaccinated "belong" (legally !!) to Pfizer?

-----------------------------
@Posted by: Mao | Nov 15 2020 18:08 utc | 21
and gm | Nov 15 2020 19:01 utc | 32

I saw this "Dominion" article in "Sputnick" which seemed curious to say the least. I took it for deliberate "disinformation" from the US side to try to pre-blame the Venezuelans and Cubans for any Dominion vote flipping or false counting in the US elections.
I tried looking up the methods used in Venezuela and they use a system that gives a paper print-out at same the time as the vote. (Which may or may not be controlled by the voter - but can be if he/she wishes). It seems less likely to allow direct vote flipping.
I couldn't find out if Cuba even uses electronic voting devices. I assume NOT, as they probably do not have the money.
It would serve also to paint Sydney Powell as a "tool" of the Venezuelans, decry Chavez and use Sputnick as a vehicle. etc.

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 15 2020 19:58 utc | 44

Too kind, dave @38...Peace to thee, too.. Not that other parts of the world don't need peace more, as you understand...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 15 2020 20:08 utc | 45

I visited Ethiopia (Asmara-Masawa) in the very early 70's for a week as part of a holiday.

This was still during the time of Emperor Haile Sallassi. The story of his visit to Saudi Arabia is this;
The official plane landed and Haile Sallassi stepped down onto the red carpet where Faisal (SA) was waiting for him. (Band playing, troops at attention etc.) The two leaders advanced towards each other and met in the middle, still on the red carpet. They stopped and just stood there silently looking at one another. - They were both "doubles" and their respective instructions had been to "meet" the other leader - but no one had told them what to say or do once they had done that.

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 15 2020 20:11 utc | 46

Has anyone anything other than dread at the very likely appt of Michele Flournoy to the Biden-Harris admin???

As if B & H weren't bad enough on their own....

Posted by: Anne | Nov 15 2020 20:22 utc | 47

Anne @ 48

Not specifically about her.

Biden’s Pentagon Transition Team Members Funded By The Arms Industry

Posted by: Down South | Nov 15 2020 20:31 utc | 48

I will be adressing whatever I deem I should from what is posted in a public forum.
Period.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 20:32 utc | 49

Saw this in our local paper in Letters section:

Pest Control - It's beginning to look as if, on Jan. 20 next year, someone will will have to vacuum Donald Trump and his clan out of the White House, just as is being done with the nests of Asian giant murder hornets or any other dangerous pests. It might be necessary to wait a few days for the new occupant's family and staff to move in, to allow time for complete fumigation.

Posted by: Mantooth | Nov 15 2020 20:41 utc | 50

when it comes to the short bus of the scum right and all the developmental disasters who ride it daily, takimag and especially sailer are riding in the back (and playing grabass with vdare). odd that a link to that fecal matter disguised as a website would end up here but oh well...it's your site. do as thou wilt and such.

the idea that a vaccine that might work might be available soon in a population where maybe half of the citizens are covidiots could affect the election is laughable at best. i guess if russia beats them to a viable vaccine everyone in america will suddenly be pro-putin? is trump the CEO of pfizer? were there polls showing people were single-issue voters and the issue was a vaccine maybe being available at some unknown date in the future? and here i was focusing on the economy and foreign policy. silly me! jesus christ.

Posted by: the pair | Nov 15 2020 20:42 utc | 51

Down South@49 Missed this piece on Antiwar. Thanks (with despair attached) for the direction to it. Gawd Luvaduck - as if we haven't already done enough damage to the world, other societies.... Meanwhile back here - homelessness will surely rise in line with increasing poverty (but hey, the likes of B & H and their crew and overseers will be completely unaffected, indeed sloshing around in the $$$). What after all do the lumpenproletariat, the plebeians, hoi polloi matter?? Only useful when they do the laundry, wash floors, cook meals, make beds and care for the kids...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 15 2020 20:57 utc | 52

Wut?

https://theintercept.com/2020/11/14/israel-coronavirus-netanyahu-protests/?comments=1#comments

22 hours ago
(Edited)
Could Intercept cover this other Middle Eastern conflict: https://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/diplomats-rockets-fired-at-eritrea-amid-ethiopian-conflict/6XMH2GL2L5BRHCK6CDIITRXE7I/

I am really confused. From that report, it sounds like Tigray "preemptively attacked" the government of Ethiopia (its own country) and then retaliated against the capital of Eritrea which it accused of helping Ethiopia. So it's now at war with two countries it sits in between. Meanwhile Amnesty is reporting hundreds of people in Tigray rounded up and many killed on account of their local ethnicity.

Israel is a familiar hobby horse, but with Intercept's concentration of people who know the language and customs of the Middle East, you could really shine by trying to make things like this seem comprehensible to average Americans.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Nov 15 2020 21:09 utc | 53

>> a fascinating interview with Steve Bannon on PBS

A regime manager interviewed by regime TV?

Necessarily useless. Part truth. Part falsehood. 100% gaslighting.

Posted by: oglalla | Nov 15 2020 21:23 utc | 54

#36 My sources are not The Guardian, I've just post the link to illustrate my point; besides readings,I have been in Ethiopia many times in the last 15 years, witnessed the repression of previous governments on the population and seen the changes brought by Abiy Ahmed (with this family name, what did you think he was, taoist?). Anyway, I did not wrote my comment to foster debate among MoA readers, but just to ask B to provide more context to his "dictator" label, maybe in a future post.

Posted by: Jenaro | Nov 15 2020 21:49 utc | 55

RE:Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 19:01 utc | 32

Okay. Here is the story of how Dominion is connected to vote rigging in the 2004 (not 2002) VZ electons in Chavez's favor:

Wikileaks: Soros-Linked Voting Machines Now Used in Most Battleground States Were Used to Rig the 2004 Venezuela Elections

Smartmatic, a UK based company, is a George Soros linked company that has provided voting technology in 16 states including battleground zones like Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Virginia.

The company[Smartmatic] was formed in 2000 and a Chavez campaign adviser was placed on the board as well.

The chairman of Smartmatic is Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, who sits in the British House of Lords and on the board of George Soros’s Open Society Foundations. He was formerly the vice-chairman of Soros’s Investment Funds and even the deputy secretary-general of the United Nations when he worked as chief of staff to Kofi Annan.

[...]

The Pan Am Post reported on the links between Smartmatic and Dominion this past week week.

Dominion is the name of the company involved in the recent U.S. elections.

Its name is associated with irregularities due to the failure of its electronic systems, whose technology was purchased from Smartmatic through its subsidiary *Sequoia*, revealed American Thinker.

Dominion denies its link, although, at one point, it allowed Smartmatic to market its same technology abroad in places where Dominion did not do business.

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 21:50 utc | 56

Does anybody have any insight into what is going on in Peru. The interim president has resigned after days of protests.

As far as I know Peru has long been the Empire's most loyal vassal in Latin America.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Nov 15 2020 21:55 utc | 57

gm/57

Should have added: "Dominion acquired Sequoia Vote (rigging) Systems in 2010."

That is the connection between Dominion and vote rigging in VZ.

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 22:01 utc | 58

@Posted by: Jenaro | Nov 15 2020 21:49 utc | 56

You many have travelled there as much as you want, or try to make us see here, whatever, but, really, that you like "the changes" brought in by Ahmed there, does not imply the Ethiopian population must like them, as it gets clear by all sources it is the case that they do not indeed, what is in the origin of the conflict which lead to this war, due the stubborness of Abyi Ahmed on transforming Ethiopia into another country different from what the Ethiopian people fought to award themselves with, which is a Federal Poeple´s Democratic Republic, not an Empire where he holds absolute power.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 22:16 utc | 59

@Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 22:01 utc | 59

But...if Dominion was involved in the rigging of the voting in Venezuela in 2010, how do we know that the 2016 election was not also rigged in favor of Trump?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 22:19 utc | 60

@Posted by: Jenaro | Nov 15 2020 21:49 utc | 56

On the other hand, as a more than probable foreign contractor working there, I do not wonder you like the changes there, highly likely benfiting your corporation on detriment of the Ethiopian people.
Before Ahmed took illegaly power, as yo ucan read in the reports linked by "b", the country was quite well managed by the government leaded by TPLF, which industrialized the country and managed the resoruces on behlf of the population.
What was wrong with this last independent country is that it was sovereign with respect its resoruces and so chose to trade with China.
That was enough to send in your typical "encargado", conveniently trained in the US, in charge of diverting the riches to foreign coroporations in exchange for his own welfare/wealth/grip on power.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 22:26 utc | 61

The only W the USA is gonna take:

Fears of double-dip recession rise alongside COVID-19 cases

--//--

China to build its own supply chain for microprocessors - with or without external pressure:

Materials, equipment 'bottlenecks' for Chinese chip sector: experts

--//--

US has lost its moral superiority amid raging post-election chaos

Evidently, the West will continue to regard the American System as the go-to option for their own statecraft; but the glamour is quickly vanishing to the Chinese people.

--//--

Covid 2021: more calamity ahead?

Just look at India in the second graph. That should be the capitalist/liberal rival to China.

Posted by: vk | Nov 15 2020 22:42 utc | 62

chavez was popular, and the gateway pundit is full of shit. not that us elections aren't rigged, but stop pretending that countries in central and south america don't go leftist without vote rigging, and stop pretending the u.s. hasn't tried to disable or overthrow every government down there that doesn't submit to the u.s. love the way the gateway pundit keeps bringing in stalin to link him to chavez, typical right wing smear job.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 15 2020 22:43 utc | 63

@Posted by: dh-mtl | Nov 15 2020 21:55 utc | 58

RE: "Does anybody have any insight into what is going on in Peru?"

Whitney Webb who presently lives in neighboring Chile, which like Peru, is also a tightly controlled US client/vassal state, says a lot toward the the end of the YT I posted above at post #3,

starting from YT time 1:38:20 https://youtu.be/SE031deuThc?t=5900 :

She says that Chile (not Peru) is currently "a mess" with respect to Covid. She continues: "Chile is basically a US client state, so it follows the same play-book as the US, but it is a lot more draconian...Chile since the 1973 coup and installation of the dictator Pinochet by Kissinger, has been used as a laboratory [ie beta test site] by the US for different things (neoliberalism for one example), but also if I may say some of the more draconian covid responses are being piloted here (in Chile) that we may see in the next few months being applied inside the USA {Whitney goes on to explain they have been having a rolling 5-phase lockdown system in place since last March that they arbitrarily move around from city without much explanation, apparent justification, or accountability by Chilean government deciders..citizens are pissed... there's more...]

I assume something similar is happening nex door in Peru.

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 22:48 utc | 64

@Posted by: oglalla | Nov 15 2020 21:23 utc | 55

Yeah, the part false part comes when he blames the "lumpemproletariat", along with the banking/financists ( of which he was part, btw...)for the evils of the working class and middle class, that way, since the working class could never be able to reach the wealthy, who, i ncase of necessity, will hide in theri security bunkers, along the "deep state", it gets as unique scapegoat the "lumpemproletariat", along the immigrants, which is your typical fascist way to disperse the rage when they arrive the bad times, deepest crisis of capitalism which comes deepening since 2008. Notcie also, that he is typicaly fascist in that he never blames the capitalist system in itself..

He describes "lumpemproletariat" as those living from the state, one guess unemployed, disabled, pensioners...What´s wrong with this people, how he knows they have never worked, how he knows they are not disabled by "serving the country" in the unending wars for the profit of the MIC and transanational corporations?

Thus, his poorly elaborated platfrom, at politcal level, since they have nothing in the basket for the working class, reduces to this:

-We must grab power as the wealth to share decreases and there is not enough for the two parties in the bipartisan system we have formed here.

-To grab power we must gain the support of the working masses for the Republican Party.

-To gain their support we must inform them on how they have been robbed during decades by a phantom we create ad hoc, the "deep state", without explaining how the very Republican Party is part of this phantom, but signaling the Democratic Party through a myriad conspiracy theories spread by a well connected/designed networks of blogs, "alt-media", youtube channels, and so on.

-To avoid them coming for the head of elites ( amongst whom we are counted...), we must signal another culprit at hand from amongst them, the real "deplorables",· who do not work at all and spend our taxes, or are aliens who keep robbing the jobs who belong to the people of good and God ( not because they have been called in by the same corporations whose interests´our party has laways defended..)

-If we win the elections, we must keep the rage and hatred and conspiracy theories rolling anyway, otherwise the people will start thinking that, after all, we are not fulfilling any of our electoral promises, we have only benefited the rich once grabbed power, and moreover, another great economic crisis is here, the great corporations have been bailed out by them working class and middel class, and there is no money to bail them now.

-If we lose the elections we must nearly destroy the system, or even start a civil war, so that the people does not have enough peace and tranquility so as to start thinking and become aware of the scam, and thus could came for our heads, when they realize they have been robbed by umpteenth time, but this time they have been really plucked, and that morevoer a part of their money I hold myself in my accounts in Goldman Sachs, or any other bank or tax haven.

This is your typical scoundrel, timador de toda la vida, and those behind him are the greatest scammers, including casino owners and all kind of dirty business, and their lawyers, what is new here?

This is as old as the world...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 15 2020 23:02 utc | 65

@ 10 Oldhppie

Nothing like any mention of anything positive about Trump (say him stopping to pet a puppy) to bring out the derision and the labels. There was indeed something polarizing about Trump the man which obscures the ability of a large number of people to discern even the most objectively stated facts, while coming out with the label "Trump supporter". This happened and is happening to a great many people who are progressive (cf. bernie support group from the primary) and post of progressive blogs across the entire - now partly censored - universe. Not just some supposed "Right wing' people.

One ca of course debate the merits of any action or policy of the Trump administration without descending to impugning others or ascribing to them this or that tendency.

Implying for example that someone like @bevin is a "Trumpist" is just plain silly and shows the tendency to label now afflicting the American society in full disturbing colors. I see a great many who post here that I may sometimes agree with and sometimes not. That's the beauty of this particular forum - people come from all directions.


Posted by: Merlin2 | Nov 15 2020 23:05 utc | 66

"the gateway pundit is full of shit. "

-Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 15 2020 22:43 utc | 64

That's very possible...Chavez's Wikipedia entry (which may ALSO be full of shit) says Chavez stood for/won (6yr term) prez elections in 2000, 2006 and 2012. (not in 2002 or 2004 as GP or Fox biz tv Dobbs/ Sidney Powell video interview relate regarding Dominion vote box rigging tales). None of the sources match up or agree.

Who you gonna believe?

Chavez appears to have been cancered in 2011 during Obama deep state admin, and died in 3013.

Posted by: gm | Nov 15 2020 23:28 utc | 67

pretzelattack @64--

It's far more appropriate to link Stalin to the US led and financed Death Squads that have terrorized all nations South of the border for many decades. The Pinochet example of executing every economist, professor and student that didn't conform to the Chicago School of Neoliberalism is an excellent example as is Operation Condor. And the OAS vilifies Cuba and others, but never the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2020 23:37 utc | 68

agree karlofi

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 16 2020 0:01 utc | 69

This is the kind of people dudes like Banon uses to scapegoat in the name of the corporate elites...

IN MEMORY: 133rd Anniversary of the execution of the Chicago Martyrs.

On November 11, 1887, in Chicago, United States, four anarchist workers convicted of their participation in the struggle for the 8-hour work day were hanged.

https://twitter.com/JC_1789/status/1327670522172350468

To those who see always no speck in the US Constitution, as if it were the Tables of Law, deos it not exist yet the US Constitution?
Under which amendment these poor working people could be hanged only for striking to avoid ñabor exloitation and conditions of already allegedly abolished slavery?

Was not the US already the "land of the free"? It seems some were more free than others, after all...

The other day they broadcasted on TV Twelve Years of Slavery on the real story of Solomon Northup, a free man living in NY with his family which is drugged and kidnaped by a slave trader to be brought to the South where he suffers the most atrocious abuses, along his fellow slaves, in a cotton plantation on one of those puritans some of you find so virtuouse, until the man manage to get a letter go through to his aquaintances in NY to be liberated. After that, he has no possibility to see any justice made on his case, as he, as black man, has no right to denounce a white, and thus, neither the slave hunter nor the cruel landowner got any punishment...Scott free...

We hold these truths because they are self evident...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 16 2020 0:19 utc | 70

-To gain their support we must inform them on how they have been robbed during decades by a phantom we create ad hoc, the "deep state", without explaining how the very Republican Party is part of this phantom, but signaling the Democratic Party through a myriad conspiracy theories spread by a well connected/designed networks of blogs, "alt-media", youtube channels, and so on.
_________________________________________________

Mr Schmatz has Bannon nailed

The most important phrase is "we must inform them"

How does Bannon propose to do this "informing"?
Answer-> by creating an alternative corporate media that poses as being the adversary to the MSM.

Bannon's job has always been to sell the donor class on Trump.
Once the sale is made (and it was in 2016) Trump's success is assured. Bannon is the guy who made Trump president by selling him to the donors. The genius of Bannon is that he convinced the elites that they will get more power than they ever dreamed possible by backing a "popularist".


Posted by: jinn | Nov 16 2020 0:20 utc | 71

FWIW the documentary about Murdoch which Quasi Retired anonym linked to @ #30 is a BBC series published in england about three months ago under the title of "The Rise of the Murdoch Dynasty". It is important to know that it is made by the BBC as the beeb & newscorp are in a fight to the death, whilst I haven't yet discovered any blatant lies, the beeb's attempt to blame newscorp for england's involvement in the iraq illegal invasion, without discussing their own culpability in that regard is typical of bbc self-serving hypocrisy.
The link at #30 requires a canada connection and is full of commercials from amazon & others, as well only episode 1 appears to be available whereas all 3 episodes are available on usenet & torrent index sites.
Episode one is very england-centric which is to be expected from the beeb, in the way it really only goes in depth on westminster pols about murdoch's use of blackmail to make pols do what murdoch insists upon.
Whether or not any later episodes do the same in amerika, it is fair to say that there is no reason to expect a different modus operandi in a different nation, Murdoch is a confirmed global capitalist who standardises his media operations around the world so any substantive difference in blackmail & extortion is unlikely.

So thanks for the heads up Quasi Retired anonym as I had somehow missed this one in my weekly scour for docos.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 16 2020 1:22 utc | 73

CBC's docu-series, "The Rise of the Murdoch [Media] Empire" {Democratics} <= probably need the rise of the Aldeson Empire{Republicans} and the rise of the Soros empire to make fiction into reality. thanks for the link Murdock

by: Quasi Retired anonym @ 30 Monstanto owns life, God failed to file a patent? Vaccinated humans belong to Pfizer?

by: Stonebird @ 45 <=. The destruction of America can be traced to patent and copyright lawyers and the congressional leaches that wrote those wealth extracting laws that have made so few so very rich.

To the pair @ 52 <=Maduro announced phytobiology in Venezuela has developed a modified urosolic (from apple peal) extract that 100% stops corona virus replication in vivo..WHO is looking into it now. Probably a chewing gum could do the trick.. no vaccination warranted, needed, wanted or allowed. To even suggest vaccination is to invite civil war <=no one, including God, trust the medical or the pharmaceutical industries or the USA.. .

dave @ 33 The robber barons prove that even before the Kennedy's the covert community and MIC were owned exclusively by the elite for the purpose of "furthering their interests" under the premise of "furthering American interests".

There's no way in hell the elite would ever allow a peasant to spoil their loot and pillage quest upon humanity.

Yes, the words in the Constitution(1787) explains the nature of the back-then conspirators involved in the production and ratification of a republican federalist government imposed on Americans by the Constitution of the USA. To understand their conspiratorial need, careful read the Constitution, and ask what would have happened to their land granted estates, to the slaves they did not free, to contracts with British governments, and to the ownership of those copyright and patents and letters marque they held? . . John Hanson 1781, was the first president of the United States, he conveniently died a few months after accepting the job.

by: vk @ 63 morality is absent in the people who run the USA.. Its moral America the USA seeks to destroy.

We hold these truths because they are self evident... by: H.Schmatz @ 71 If you replace because with the words "to be" this sentence begins the list of grievances enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, and was written by the rebel patriots hell bent of chasing the British government backed Corporations out of America. . It is difficult to find a difference between the listed atrocities of the Oligarch controlled British in 1776 and the list of atrocities that could be made of the oligarch controlled USA today. I think it is obvious, both governments have suppressed those they govern.

Posted by: snake | Nov 16 2020 1:33 utc | 74

"Is the mask finally slipping?

"A serious Danish study on the effectiveness, or lack of it, of face coverings has still not been published. The study is a randomised controlled trial, the gold standard of scientific enquiry in such things. But according to a Copenhagen newspaper, Berlingske, three scientific journals have turned it down.

"Nobody will say why. I’d only say that in recent months, existing research casting doubt on the usefulness of masks has been increasingly difficult to find on the internet, sometimes actually disappearing from places where it used to be."

Peter Hitchens

Medical Journals Refuse To Publish Landmark Danish Mask Study

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 16 2020 2:01 utc | 75

I saw the Student Debt Crisis Town Hall link below and wanted other barflies to know it is going to happen on November 20th at 12 PM PST....I am going to miss it

Student Debt Crisis Town Hall

A transformative conversation about how the student debt crisis is undermining America’s future featuring leading experts in the U.S.

Panelists include:

PAUL GRONDAHL - Director New York State Writers Institute (host)

MATT TAIBBI - Author, Rolling Stone Magazine, Reporter (moderator)

Michael J. Camoin - Videos For Change Productions, SCARED TO DEBT (filmmaker)

ALAN COLLINGE - Founder of StudentLoanJustice.Org (activist)

CATHERINE AUSTIN FITT - Investment Advisor (former Sallie Mae )

THOMAS BORGERS - Wall Street Banker, Financial Investigator

Join this Town Hall discussion, a virtual March on Washington, that will eventually land in D.C. Tell your friends and your family. Register to receive a direct access link reminder. There is no charge to attend the STUDENT LOAN Debt Crisis Town Hall.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 16 2020 2:01 utc | 76

Well, I guess by now Circe has completed his/her purpose.

Posted by: blues | Nov 16 2020 2:14 utc | 77

So ZH is posting a story from The Epoch Times that says Trump lawyers are getting ready to claim fraud in any states with voting systems from Dominion Voting Systems, Election Systems & Software, and Hart InterCivic

Evidently a whistleblower came forward....

It is not like the older private Diebold systems are auditable.....wonder why in the age of Open Source software there isn't a demand for an auditable voting system???

The shit show continues and in the US we are setting new records for the best shit show in the world! USA! USA! USA!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 16 2020 2:36 utc | 78

Much ado about nothing. The d’s stole the election, with a hand puppet that could barely remember where he was, from time to time....doesn’matter .....trump did nothing in his four years. The fed reserve flooded the oligarchs with trillions, and the little people got their free bread. The lack of Leaders vs fraudsters has left the west in cv lockdown ...no one knows what is the right course. ...regardless of its efficacy, the lockdown is killing the patient far. Quicker than the malady.
The so called ‘leadership’ will continue its ‘War on convid’ and will have the same success as had all the other ‘wars’.
The us is rotting from the head down. There is only one recourse. The head must be separated from the body, so a new head can grow.. ..wonder how long it will take before the People decide enuf is enuf.

Posted by: James joseph | Nov 16 2020 2:50 utc | 79

Harmeet Dhillon: GOP Paid Millions to Lawyers Who Threw Trump Under the Bus

The Republican Party spent millions of dollars on lawyers in anticipation of election-related legal battles who have abandoned President Donald Trump, said Harmeet Dhillon, the former vice chairwoman of the California Republican Party.

Dhillon observed how Republican donors have been parasitized by political consultants, campaigns, political action committees, and related operations. She shared her analysis on Thursday’s edition of SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight with host Joel Pollak.

https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2020/11/13/harmeet-dhillon-gop-paid-millions-lawyers-threw-trump-under-bus/

Posted by: Mao | Nov 16 2020 2:59 utc | 80

Re: Peru, as mentioned, Peru has been a faithful follower of the U.S. imperial system. The leader Vizcarra was pushed out and replaced supposedly for mishandling the covid response. The new guy, Merino, was involved in pushing him out. Vizcarra was thought to be a normal mainstream corporate guy but it looks like he had some support because the "street" exploded, especially the young people. a few deaths later, Merino quit "to avoid violence". Peruvian youth feel empowered but they're.... young. Meanwhile, next door in Bolivia, the MAS movement is consolidating their power and looks impressive. Peru shares a border and lots of linguistic/cultural kinship with the Aymara and Quechua so let's hope they learn from Bolivians.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 16 2020 3:01 utc | 81

@blues78 it's purpose completed. There I fixed it for you.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 16 2020 3:28 utc | 82

Evo Morales returned to Bolivia this week as the MAS party entered week 2 setting up their government. It's hard to know how the two power centers (Evo and the new MAS leadership) will mesh but my guess is that Morales and his vice president Garcia Linera will find a way. New President Arce was the finance minister under Morales and the architect of the 14 year economic program that registered big gains for the country, so they know each other well. Morales's return was like Mandela's release from prison-- a 2 or 3 day procession, masses of people, they really love Morales. Arce was not there, he was working. They seemed to keep their distance which I think is probably good for Arce especially. It's really a unique situation and I don't know of any other similar case where a deposed president returns after his party defeats his ousters a year later... at the polls! and-- the fascists walk away!
The other big thing is the call for justice which appears to be in the early stages of happening. Press reports are naming perps and detailing crimes, arrest warrants for high profile leaders-- including military-- are being posted. Overall, almost jaw-dropping. Argentina, Venezuela, Mexico, Nicaragua appear to be moving fast to re-establish high level working relations. Russia, China, Iran are also "all in" with Bolivia. Lithium production is going to get back up but it's public sector and will eventually be the batteries and Elon Musk will compete with China and others to establish supply chains. U.S. is there but for now appears neutered.
Two young heroic journalists have been risking their lives the past year and continue with daily on the ground reporting: Ollie Vargas, one parent is Bolivian, the other is British, he's a Bolivian citizen, reports a lot in English and is getting more exposure. Also, Camila Escalante, born in El Salvador, raised in the U.S. also tweets and reports a lot in English. They started Kawsachun Coca News, endured death and arrest threats and prevailed. Their base is the progressive stronghold of Cochabamba, near Morales. The website is in Spanish but they're on Twitter, maybe Facebook. Telesur has them on some too.
https://kawsachuncoca.com/
https://www.telesurenglish.net/

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 16 2020 3:31 utc | 83

@84 migueljose

Thanks for this splendid report - very concise. Astonishing about the arrest warrants, I hadn't heard that.

Ollie Vargas has a very uplifted report in English at Mint Press News (also republished at Strategic Culture):

A Hero’s Welcome: Inside Evo Morales’ Triumphant Return Tour

Morales’ first speech in Bolivia, delivered at the plaza in Villazon, struck a similar tone, discussing the future rather than reminiscing about past glory. “We have to keep working, our task now is to protect President Arce and our process of change, because the right doesn’t sleep and the empire is always looking at our natural resources, but we use our experience to go forward even stronger.”

So how does he plan to go about doing that? Morales is not just another private citizen. He has now assumed his role as the President of the 6 Federations of the Tropico, the powerful Chapare region rural workers union that he led throughout the 1990s and from which he founded the MAS. He’s also still the president of the MAS, the Movement Towards Socialism. He’s not the leader of the state, but he is the political leader of the ruling party.

Yes it will take conscious attention to keep the two powers separate and in harmony but Morales seems to be well qualified for that. He said that everyone must be anti-imperialist; if they're not anti-imperialist they're not revolutionary. That's one razor-sharp perspective. He keeps that narrative sharp for the people, he holds the vision while the government handles the material things.

All good so far.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 16 2020 4:33 utc | 84

I just read theamerican conservative B linked to this thread.. American Conservative at first, I was appalled at the authors start date, but then I realized it was intentional, to leave out that global dominance was embedded from the start in the constitution. Few underestood just how big and powerful the British West and East Indies companies were during these times. These companies and many like them, were everywhere at once, their merchant shipping was protected by the world's strongest navy. and history shows everything British Commerce touched was exploitative to the target of the touch. In America, the oligarchs had control of the colonies because they were the owners of the land (land grants), the colonies were used to enrich the commercial interest of the mother country (<= a statement that holds true in every British Colony) and to understand how weak the historical background of that Article is, you need to look at what was happening in Russia, Japan, China, South America, Africa, Iran, the Ottoman Empire, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, and most of all the British Colonies in America that became the USA because the powers that be were active in every damn one of those places, all at once, simultaneously. If you read the British legislation during those periods you will see the parliament was doing then what the USA congress does today, writing laws to protect home town commercial interest across the globe. This is the British way, to extract the profits from many places at once, by colonization, and when the colony rises up seeking independence, then the Brits seize control of the new instituted local politics and the banking systems. Wherever the British were, the locals were exploited and this did not start in 1900 it began maybe in the 1450's with the enclosure acts and the development of the industrial revolution.

Owning the means to make things and the means to transport them to markets was a first premise.. in time, it was discovered, that it was not necessary to own the physical colony or the physical factory that made stuff, all that was needed was to control the production and the means to transport the produced goods. Investment grade Copyright and patents were the heart and sole of the British Coffee Houses <=where the wealthy bought and sold them like stocks and bonds, but remember these intangibles do not evidence ownership of anything physical, they are means by which control of all and every means of production in near and far away places are controlled from the arm chair of a wealthy oligarch..

Over the period from 1450 to about 1900 the Oligarchs had several privileges that allowed them to control nearly everything in every place at the same time. One was the privilege to board a ship or place on board a ship their representatives who go travel and go to just about anywhere with sufficient wealth to corrupt nearly all people and their governments. After boats, beginning in 1850s or so came the Rail roads and again few were able to ride them because the cost was out of reach, then in the 1890s, the telegraph, and in the 1920s or so airplanes, again the wealthy few could go anywhere.. and they developed a banking system which is today called the Federal Reserve and they developed a system to control the politics where ever they had a need to do, it was called the nation state. WWI was planned in Switzerland in 1897.. Russia signed a pack with France and the next Year Britain, France and the USA agreed to get Germany and to take the oil from the Ottomans. It jelled in 1913 the same year the constitution of the United States was changed to allow the taxation of the incomes of the American people; taxation was necessary to guarantee the loans the federal reserve was to make to the nearly broke nations in Europe who were going to fight wwi so commercial interest could eliminate competition from Germany and gain monopoly access to the Ottoman oil. Please note <=with days after the income tax amendment (16th) passed the USA congress, the federal reserve act passed the congress and the public sovereign nation state (USA) gave its right monopoly in money to private bankers.

The subject article seems to pick up from there. ?

Posted by: snake | Nov 16 2020 5:10 utc | 85

There's the flag of the East India Company and there's the Grand Union Flag.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 16 2020 5:39 utc | 86

b, make more popcorn!

Several people have already posted about this above. It cannot be stated enough!
If this comes to fruition it is like ... wow! ... History Changing !

Get your popcorn ready (and take a deep breath if you own equity stocks).

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-lawyer-sidney-powell-were-getting-ready-overturn-election-results-multiple-states

"Trump Lawyer Sidney Powell: "We're Getting Ready To Overturn Election Results In Multiple States""


“We have so much evidence, I feel like it’s coming in through a fire hose,” Powell said, while noting that she won’t reveal the evidence that she has.

Posted by: librul | Nov 16 2020 5:46 utc | 87

Below is a Reuter's posting adding to my comment at #79 and that of librul # 88

"
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump asserted on Twitter on Sunday he would soon file “big cases” challenging the 2020 election results in which Joe Biden defeated him, even after his campaign has lost numerous court battles over the results.

Trump did not specify if his campaign would file new lawsuits but said on Twitter “our big cases showing the unconstitutionality of the 2020 Election, & the outrage of things that were done to change the outcome, will soon be filed!”
"

The shit show continues....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 16 2020 5:51 utc | 88

Just watched all three episodes of "The rise of the murdoch dynasty" yeah I know but for some reason didn't have too much on today). Anyway after episode one's expose of the tony the cuckolder bliar years, episode 2 gets into the englander phone hacking scandal and how it came close to bringing the murdoch empire down and episode 3 is probably the most amerikacentric episode as it details how after massive initial resistance newscorp esp Fox got behind orangeutan, then Ailes ouster & rupert's decision to take a hands on approach to fox.

Much is made of murdoch's decision to get out of entertainment and flogging all of that off to disney for a major shareholding in that corporation but for me that was ditching soon to be unprofitable pieces while hanging on the the core business toxic news which can be used to strong-arm, blackmail & extortion in a way that childrens' movies cannot.

There is no doubt that the decision to turn against orangeidiot came from rupert, however the doco was made a few months before the amerikan election so others need to watch episode 3 in particular to see what they glean.

Oh it also explains why the bliar is not heard from too much anymore. Tony & murdoch wife number 3, wendy deng, apparently got horizontal and wendy made the error of using newscorp email servers to organise 'liaisons'. huge mess - heheh it couldn't happen to a lower mob of scumbags. Meanwhile Lachlan & James the two competing murdoch sons had been trying to show 'wendy' was a chinese agent - see they are just as vulnerable to gaslighting as anyone.

The series main value is in demonstrating that the elite deep state or whatever are not some all prescient monolith but are a cess pool of competing interests who hook up whenever something is mutually rewarding. There is no compunction about buses & the usefulness of tossing anyone who isn't oneself, under a bus should the need arise.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 16 2020 6:11 utc | 89

@ Debsisdead | Nov 16 2020 6:11 utc | 90
who wrote
"
The series main value is in demonstrating that the elite deep state or whatever are not some all prescient monolith but are a cess pool of competing interests who hook up whenever something is mutually rewarding.
"

The all prescient monolith are the tools/existence of global private finance.

Who does the BIS compete with? The World Bank? The IMF? Yes, there is the AIIB now but lets get real, the Murdoch dynasty is not the story of the control private finance exerts on society and has for centuries now.

We have a structural issue, not a few bad apples.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 16 2020 6:25 utc | 90

re psychohistorian # 91

Nobody is saying it is a few bad apples least of all me, but the way too many paint our oppressors as some sort of monolithic all knowing arseholes whose interests always align is not only incorrect it encourages despair among us the 99%, who see the opposition as being unbeatable when in fact they are anything but.

Banking & finance interests are forever competing to establish power over one another and murdoch/newscorp via its extortion network is much sought after, competed for, by those financial interests (eg every time murdoch has wanted a coupla billion to get control over media is some market 'private finance' fights tooth and nail to be the candidate selected for the privilege of lending Newscorp money, why? So that it is they (the particular gang of cash surplus arseholes) can exert sufficient political control to 1) enrich themselves & 2) do down the competition. Seeing the world as some great all knowing conspiracy is exactly what these pricks want you to believe so you will give up.
Just using economic control while ignoring political & strategic resource control would have to be the most expensive, economic depleting method for a gang to get what they want. Doing that whilst rivals achieve the same with less expenditure would have to be the quickest route to irrelevancy.
I realise you have a fixation on 'private finance', by all means do that if you wish psychohistorian, that is should your goal be just to whine without deducing ways to resist, but if we really want to exert change, the most practical means is to recognise that control of finance is a tool, yeah maybe the most powerful tool, but still just one tool in the kitbag of our always competing against each other oppressors.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 16 2020 7:27 utc | 91

Every day more and more, with thankfully the exception of a few, MOA is turning into Infowars: conspiracy theories, baseless assumptions and meager to zero facts.

Are librul, blues and Tannenhouser, the MOA house bully, ready for Trump's warp-speed double vaxx injection on their butt cheeks? 🤣😂 Come on, you gotta take one...no, two! in the same month for Trump! AHH-HAHA!

@2 David

Although I hated Obama's foreign policy, you are 100% factual on the economic side. Excellent post.

*******

Let's say Biden restores the JCPOA, fires Elliot Abrams on Iran and the regime change job in Venezuela and doesn't start any wars...oh boy, will you all be bored around here!

We'll see. Unless of course Trump pulls off his coup. Oh yeah, then we'll have war for sure!

Mark2

Keep on keeping on. Tannenhouser is ready to have a bird.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 16 2020 7:56 utc | 92

Circe @ 93
Hi Circe good to hear you and compare notes.
Yes yes yes to all you say there, were on same page.
Me ? I’ve just put my feet up for the mo, enjoying s**t show here, they truly do our work for us particularly the ones you mention. We need do no more. Their posts are truly cringe worthy !! No insight whatsoever.
Love to hear you. Do you have another go to site ? Big respect ✊

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 16 2020 8:13 utc | 93

In all the charges of massive voter Fraud against the Democrats, it seems to be overlooked that the GOP even gained seats in the down-ticket elections.

That is either some very lame or very refined vote-tampering on the part of the DNC...

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Nov 16 2020 8:55 utc | 94

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2020 23:37 utc | 69

"It's far more appropriate to link Stalin to the US led and financed Death Squads that have terrorized all nations South of the border for many decades."

That's probably the dumbest sentence you've ever written on this blog.
Sounds like the typical Murican delusional leftist who Parenti used to critize so pointedly.

Posted by: v | Nov 16 2020 9:34 utc | 95

I mentioned earlier that the "Deep State" is a term that has come into a lot of use lately - with no clear definition.

Any modern government relies on trained, experienced professionals who are familiar with the way things are done. These people are indispensable and cannot simply be swapped out with each change of administration without disrupting government.

The Executive Branch is in charge of them but needs to confer and work with them in terms of what can realistically be accomplished. When the Executive Branch tries to impose its will beyond the range of what is feasible there is bound to be some pushback from these professionals who serve the country, not just a single administration.

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Nov 16 2020 10:52 utc | 96

V @ 96
Here’s an interesting and relivant fact the people / activists that campaigned for — ‘the 8 hour working day’ in America, were hung.
Please have a care before you turn your nose up at the left !!
We had to fight for every single thing you so glibly take for granted now.
Relivant and topical right here right now.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 16 2020 11:05 utc | 97

I heard about a German fellow, a history student, who visited the site of the Haymarket Riots in Chicago, expecting to find some sort of memorial to the fallen heroes of workers' rights.

Instead he found a plaque commemorating the policemen who were killed protecting us from Socialist Anarchists.

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Nov 16 2020 11:11 utc | 98

I should add that the monument has since been removed and replaced by one commemorating the workers

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Nov 16 2020 11:13 utc | 99

Karlof1 @ 69:

Josef Stalin may have been a harsh and unforgiving, even vengeful leader, he allowed or promoted people of dubious worth into his inner circle (and many of them happened to be Georgians like himself or Armenians) and his government moved quickly to put puppet governments into eastern Europe to act as buffers between the Soviet Union and West Germany - but to compare his government to US-funded governments and their death squads in South America, especially during that continent's notorious Operation Condor period during the 1960s and 1970s is very far-fetched.

During Stalin's time as leader, the Soviet Union did not pursue programs that compared in scale and influence to Operation Condor in other parts of the world outside eastern Europe. The Soviet Union might have run a network of gulags to imprison dissidents and treat them harshly for the terms of their sentences but to my knowledge never tortured dissidents just for the heck of torturing them or subjecting them to vicious and sadistic forms of execution like taking them over an ocean in a helicopter, binding them hand and foot, cutting their abdomens open and then throwing them out, as the Chilean and Argentine governments used to do to dissident prisoners.

Incidentally after World War II the CIA and MI6 were running Ukrainian ultra-nationalist and ex-Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera and some of his fellow OUN hombres as agents into Soviet Ukraine, at least until KGB agents traced Bandera to his apartment in West Germany and killed him in October 1959. During WW2, Bandera and his faction of the OUN (Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists) behaved very much like death squads for the Nazis, capturing, torturing and killing Polish and Russian civilians alike, and targeting Jewish people especially.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 16 2020 11:18 utc | 100

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