Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 07, 2020

Regime Change In Washington Paves Way To More Nefarious Policies

It seems that the powers that be are finally managing to get rid of U.S. President Donald Trump.

While Trump's domestic policies have been as much to the favor of the very rich as those of his predecessors, his foreign policies were remarkably different. A Harris (Biden) regime will return to 'business as usual' and be more aggressive. That is the reason why I for one will miss Trump.

The unceremonial dethronement of Trump will also have domestic consequences. His voters will inevitably call it a fraud. A Harris (Biden) administration is unlikely to have the funds needed to fight the pandemic and its disastrous economic consequences. That together could give rise to a challenger who combines Trump's rightwing populism with political competence. That is a prospect everyone should fear.

Ever since Donald Trump entered the political stage he was fought by the military-media-intelligence establishment with ruthless campaigns designed to regime change him:

The seeds of this scheme were planted several months prior to the 2016 election when Hillary Clinton authorized a smear campaign against Trump alleging that he's secretly a “Russian agent”. It was hoped that this would discredit the race's frontrunner and thus result in handing her the presidency that November. This eventually morph into the discredited “Steele dossier” and the subsequent Russiagate conspiracy theory. The purpose of these information warfare provocations was to delegitimize Trump's election, insincerely present the Democrats as the guardians of America's electoral integrity, and therefore powerfully shape public perceptions ahead of the 2020 election. During the interim, a related narrative was weaponized claiming that Trump is a corrupt lawbreaker and wannabe dictator who'll cling to power at all costs.

Now, as it seems that Joe Biden may win the presidency, there is no longer a need to promote the fake 'Russiagate' stories.

Bryan MacDonald @27khv - 10:37 UTC · Nov 7, 2020

Amazing how quick the "Russian meddling" narrative died, in the US, once it became clear that the 'correct' candidate was going to win the election, wasn't it?
After all, the folk who pushed it don't want to delegitimise Joe Biden's forthcoming presidency.

Just in time for the election three major pillars of 'Russiagate' were thoroughly debunked and quietly buried.

Michael Tracey @mtracey - 14:51 UTC · Nov 3, 2020

Amazing. Hours before Election Day comes news that Mueller aggressively tried to prosecute Assange and Roger Stone for a conspiracy related to the 2016 DNC/Podesta emails, but ran into "factual...hurdles" which could not establish any conspiracy. Perfect time to memory-hole this

---
Raw intelligence - Meduza spoke to all the likely sources behind the ‘Steele dossier.’ The report that forever transformed Donald Trump into a ‘Russian agent’ looks less and less convincing.
---
Self-styled whistleblower Christopher Wylie and The Guardian reporter Carole Cadwalladr earned film deals and flashy awards by blaming Brexit and Trump on a sweeping conspiracy between data firm Cambridge Analytica and Russia. A British government investigation shatters their claims to fame.

It is no wonder then that Trump's followers now doubt all vote counts that disfavor him.

Max Abrahms @MaxAbrahms - 12:50 UTC · Nov 6, 2020
Mainstream media has played a huge role in eroding American confidence in our elections. They spent four years saying Trump’s 2016 win was just a gift from Putin. Now the media is incredulous that so many Americans don’t trust the electoral system they succeeded in discrediting.

Given the way Trump was fought throughout the last four and a half years it is hard to believe that the current part of the process, especially the counting of absentee / mail-in votes, is handled without similar shenanigans taking place.

Consider what a 2012 New York Times piece on mail-in ballots had to say:

Election administrators have a shorthand name for a central weakness of voting by mail. They call it granny farming.

“The problem,” said Murray A. Greenberg, a former county attorney in Miami, “is really with the collection of absentee ballots at the senior citizen centers.” In Florida, people affiliated with political campaigns “help people vote absentee,” he said. “And help is in quotation marks.”

Voters in nursing homes can be subjected to subtle pressure, outright intimidation or fraud. The secrecy of their voting is easily compromised. And their ballots can be intercepted both coming and going.

The problem is not limited to the elderly, of course. Absentee ballots also make it much easier to buy and sell votes. In recent years, courts have invalidated mayoral elections in Illinois and Indiana because of fraudulent absentee ballots.

And what about this? Why are private media companies allowed to selectively censor the president?

Michael Tracey @mtracey - 15:14 UTC · Nov 6, 2020

The majority of Trump's recent tweets are currently censored. I don't care how misleading or even false they are. That's not for Twitter to arbitrate. People cheering this power-grab by unelected tech officials are authoritarian dupes

Claiming that 'Trump is evil' or that he lies as all politicians do does not justify this.

From an international perspective Trump is certainly not the worst president ever:

Without Trump, the world stage will be poorer. Trump was good for world peace. He didn’t start a war anywhere, which is not something that can be said for most of his predecessors. Trump was a master of skulduggery — a farcical coup attempt in Venezuela, a ghastly political assassination in Iraq — but indeed knew where to stop when Iran rained a hundred missiles on the American bases in Iraq.

Trump claimed to be ever ready to have a battle but never had one. He vowed to unleash “fire and fury” on North Korea but ended up saying, “We fell in love”, after the [then] historic meeting in 2018 with Kim Jong Un. In reality, Trump unwittingly speeded up the processes favouring multipolarity.

We will of course not miss Mike Pompous, the most lying Secretary of State ever, or Matthew Pottinger who tried his best to antagonize China. Nor will we miss Marshall Bellingslea who intended to destroy all the arms control agreements that have kept this planet alive.

But those were side figures and much less effective than they would have been with the full backing of a competent president. They are mere rats who are now already leaving the ship.

Ragıp Soylu @ragipsoylu - 10:13 UTC · Nov 7, 2020

James Jeffrey, US Special Envoy for Syria, is leaving his post after an apparent Biden victory — Asharq Al-Awsat

What we must fear now is the 'business as usual' that is coming next:

Trump has not been defeated by a Bernie Sanders; he has been defeated by a corrupt political hack backed to the hilt by the large majority of the billionaire owned media, financed out of Wall street and with no intention of pursuing anything other than neo-liberal economic policies. It is also the firm re-establishment of the rule of the security state and the military-industrial complex. Trump’s instinctive isolationism made him an enemy of the security state interest which spent a great deal of time in trying to undermine its President.

With Biden we will return to business as usual, and that means war and invasions. Under Trump we have had no new wars started, even if he continued old ones with little control. Without Trump, I have not the tiniest doubt that Syria would have been bombed back to the Stone Age, exactly like Libya, and millions more people would have been killed. Irrespective of the undoubted damage Trump has caused inside the United States across many fronts, Hillary would have killed a lot more people. Just not Americans.

The Harris (Biden) foreign policy will be much more aggressive than Trump's has ever been:

The Biden campaign has worked tirelessly over the past year to channel the image of Joe Biden as a “serious person,” particularly on foreign policy matters. Biden, according to this narrative, is an elder statesman who grasps the intricacies of international politics. Trump, by contrast, is presented as an inept bull in a china shop who only speaks the language of “fire and fury.” Only Biden, we are told, can bring back stability around the globe.

 

Don’t believe a word of it. This carefully curated image of Joe Biden’s strategic acumen and geopolitical foresight is at odds with the former vice president’s own stated views and policy track record. His statements about a variety of countries suggest that they are based less on a strategic view of world affairs than snap judgments.

The Harris (Biden) regime is likely to concentrate on foreign policy because it will, for lack of money, have trouble to be effective on domestic issues.

The Senate is likely to stay under Republican control. After trillions of deficits accumulated under Trump the Republicans will now, under a Democratic president, again find their inner deficit hawk:

Chris Cioffi @ReporterCioffi - 16:00 UTC · Nov 6, 2020

Senate committee talk from Graham: If we keep the Senate which I think we will and I become Budget chairman. I'd like to create a dialogue about how can we finally begin to address the debt.

While a runaway pandemic unleashes its devastating economic consequences the new Republican austerity position is likely to have catastrophic effects.

For the next four years Trump and his followers will inevitably claim that fraud must have played a role in his loss.

James Melville @JamesMelville 23:33 UTC · Nov 4, 2020

In the movie “Citizen Kane,” a tycoon runs for political office. In advance of the election result, his newspaper prepares two headlines after the election. One headline says: “Kane Elected” and the other says: “Fraud At Polls.”
This feels spookily prophetic today.

We have reasons to fear what is likely to evolve from this.

chinahand @chinahand - 15:12 UTC · Nov 4, 2020

Watching trumpers bringing the dolchstoss is nice support for my thesis "the dark energy of fascism will draw its power from trump's defeat not his victory"

The disputed election, the gigantic economic downturn and an aggressive foreign policy will pave the way for a more effective populist:

Make no mistake: The attempt to harness Trumpism—without Trump, but with calculated, refined, and smarter political talent—is coming. And it won’t be easy to make the next Trumpist a one-term president. He will not be so clumsy or vulnerable. He will get into office less by luck than by skill.
...
At the moment, the Democratic Party risks celebrating Trump’s loss and moving on—an acute danger, especially because many of its constituencies, the ones that drove Trump’s loss, are understandably tired. A political nap for a few years probably looks appealing to many who opposed Trump, but the real message of this election is not that Trump lost and Democrats triumphed. It’s that a weak and untalented politician lost, while the rest of his party has completely entrenched its power over every other branch of government: the perfect setup for a talented right-wing populist to sweep into office in 2024. And make no mistake: They’re all thinking about it.

While I would not have voted for Trump I rue what is following him.

Posted by b on November 7, 2020 at 12:18 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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I love the fact media worldwide is so rosy.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 7 2020 22:30 utc | 201

uncle tungsten @Nov7 21:55 194

Beware the false flag.

Yes. The military wouldn't be allowed a choice.

Note: I mentioned that a false flag would probably be how a war with Iran would start in my comment @Nov7 15:08 #56.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 7 2020 22:31 utc | 202

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 7 2020 21:55 utc | 194

There was a crisis in 2012, and again in 2018, where an attack on Iran was in prospect, where there were big threats, but suddenly things calmed down, and they started to talk about internal destabilisation. The US military is hanging back, not keen to go to war.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 7 2020 22:33 utc | 203

"Military intelligence officials got into the system and changed votes"

https://twitter.com/m1dn7ghtrider/status/1324877621117784066

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 7 2020 22:35 utc | 204

Laguerre @Nov7 22:33 #205

I think that's all true. And I hope that war will be avoided.

But I think we have to recognize the possibility. Trump would be the perfect one to start such a war because of his erratic and belligerent nature and his absolute devotion to Netanyahu/Israel. Then the new President would claim (as all President's do) to be peace-loving but he inherited the war from Trump (ie. typical deflections and excuses).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 7 2020 22:40 utc | 205

Good too see Death Cult Crazies Pence and Pompeo shown the door...although I am guessing old Deep State Phat Po will stay in the mix with the Biden Administration.

I think Maggie's post @2 shows why it was a lose/lose situation either way. Trump was only part of the problem, his chunk of nutball, flatearth, climate change denying supporters who believe Biden and Company is communist, or even left-wing, instead of the "other" fascist right-wing party are as ignorant and dangerous as they come.

Ultimately, Trump's incompetence bought Russia/China some time. Contrary to common belief around these parts Russia's military was not ready to stand up to the USA in 2016.

And was Trump's foreign policy any more benign...?...or was the Obama Administration just way more efficient at creating chaos and color revolution? Murdering Soleimani likely started a war with Iran, we just don't know it yet. The aggression towards China was just as dangerous as the aggression towards Russia that we are likely to see ramped up in the near future. Obsolete Abrams couldn't flip Venezuela...but he tried. Bolivia was a partial success.

The best thing about Trump wasn't that he was fundamentally any different...it was that he was largely inept.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 7 2020 22:42 utc | 206

@Jay | Nov 7 2020 22:15 utc | 198

Why not if, but only if individual states are close.
The answer should be "Yes" if the result is contested, not "why not if". The claim by Trump's team is that inspectors have not been given reasonable access, they claim they could not see anything, so I would say your requirement that "states are close" is circular logic, it builds on unverified and contested counting.

I would claim that any election should be verified, regardless of claimed numbers. But this is obviously not the case in the US banana republic.

Yes it is about 2020.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 7 2020 22:47 utc | 207

Politically, the US is a 3rd world country with a democratic veneer for "gas lighting" the voters and external propaganda purposes. Economically, the US is a 2nd world country on the decline. The cause of this is a controlling elite made up of some super-rich people operating through the CIA, which itself operates through agencies like the FBI and people like George Soros to conduct, most recently, a "color revolution" not overseas as in the past, but within the US itself. These people consider the US Constitution to be an impediment.

The array of bizarre and fairly obvious "covert" operations they have mounted against Trump for over four years now, indicates they consider him a genuine threat to them - that's interesting in itself. Apparently, they had to come out of the shadows over the last four years in order to dislodge him so they can conduct their operations more effectively. These operations are about big money and big power politics, and have been stirring up bloody regional wars and have been threatening nuclear armed powers in Eur-Asia. It is very doubtful that the plans this controlling money elite and their "deep state" operatives have for the future will benefit the US or its people.

Posted by: xeno | Nov 7 2020 22:47 utc | 208

Norwegian, 206:


"Military intelligence officials got into the system and changed votes"


Just saying something doesn't make it true.

Posted by: Jay | Nov 7 2020 22:53 utc | 209

Posted by: vig | Nov 7 2020 14:12 utc | 33

Read it, thanks for the link. Article merely raised the concern, provided no evidence itself. All it consists of is assertions by the Trump campaign - which we've seen elsewhere, also without evidence. That deceased persons received ballots in the mail merely means the voter registration rolls are outdated - which is true in many places and is frequently the reason why assertions of fraud are raised - before people check the actual registration records involved, as noted in some of my previous posts.

As the article notes, the court will decide whether the issue is systemic or limited. One waits for actual evidence before concluding vote fraud. So far, absolutely none has been provided, certainly not on the level to claim the election was "stolen."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 22:55 utc | 210

Yanis Varoufakis sees the result as a resurgence of the old right.

5 minutes and worth a listen.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 7 2020 22:55 utc | 211

While Trump's domestic policies have been as much to the favor of the very rich as those of his predecessors, his foreign policies were remarkably different. That is the reason why I for one will miss Trump.

Awwwh shucks! How touching. My heart bleeds for you…NOT! But seriously, we have been aware of your bizarre infatuation with Trump since day one always refusing to lay the buck at Trump's bone spurs feet instead always ambiguously claiming the Trump Administration did this, and did that...soooo what part are you gonna miss, huh? Allow me to refresh your memory:

1. Tearing up the JCPOA
2. Trashing arms control treaties
3. Initiating Cold War tactics with China
4. Imposing the harshest sanctions on Iran (act of war)
5. Bragging every 2nd day about the murder of Soleimani (act to provoke war)
6. Killing hundreds of Iraqi militia sympathetic with Iran that fought ISIS
6. Lying about decreasing troops in the ME and instead shuffling them around and increasing deployments to bases.
8. Helping MBS clear his crimes (butchery being the worst)
9. Helping KSA and UAE kill and starve Yemeni men, women and children and ordered a raid in Yemen where 30 civilians including children were killed along with a Navy Seal and 5 soldiers.
10. Defunding UNWRA that helps Palestinian refugees
11. Moving the Embassy to Jerusalem and illegally declaring Jerusalem capital of Israel and the Golan Heights permanently belonging to Israel
12. Closing down Palestinian mission in the U.S.
13. Trying to criminalize BDS i.e.Free Expression
14. Attempting to rob the Palestinians of the entire West Bank and attempting to legitimize APARTHEID in the Deal the anal-retentive Kushner pulled out of his ass
15. Putting Elliot Abrams, rabid Zionist Neocon in charge of regime change in Venezuela after pathetically attempting a coup and reversed previous administration’ s policy to re-establish diplomacy and normalize relations with Cuba.
16. Domestically, the whole Wall fiasco that literally brought the country to a standstill with the shutdown for nothing, he gave tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires he jeopardized DACA by cancelling the Executive Order protecting Dreamers, forcibly separating thousands of children from their parents and putting them in cages and detention centers. Hundreds of children are still lost to their parents. He tried multiple times to repeal the ACA that would deprive millions of healthcare, and is trying even now, advanced Dakota pipeline through Native American lands and repealing multiple environmental protection regulations including allowing dumping of coal debris into streams, filled the Courts with hundreds of incompetent Conservative lackies, gassed peaceful protesters, and finally royally f*&ked up his handling of the Covid-19 Pandemic that resulted so far in 19 Million infections, hundreds of thousands of dead Americans and counting, an economic meltdown and millions of people suffering hardship with no relief in sight.
...I know there's more but I can't be bothered to clean your clock further and by the way, now that Joe Biden won the election and your own admission that Biden will be the 46th President you just further blew up your credibility after writing this in mid-October:

While most polls show that Joe Biden will win the U.S. election my gut is telling me that Donald Trump will have a second term.
And you were as bigly wrong about the 2018 Mid-terms.

Now, on that thread I wrote I would get to eat your lunch eventually, and that day has arrived.

So, what's on the menu??? Hand it over, mister!

I'll leave you with dessert – humble pie!

So which part are you going to miss of your halcyon Trump trip? Let me guess: The part where Russia benefits at the expense of hurt for everyone else?! That part!

The Putin party is OVER. I’ll have my champagne at your loss. Cheers!🥂

Posted by: Circe | Nov 7 2020 22:58 utc | 212

Look at the bright side: Brezhnev was leader of the Soviet Union until he was 80.

Posted by: passerby | Nov 7 2020 22:59 utc | 213

Posted by: vk | Nov 7 2020 21:17 utc | 188

"But that was not the USA's strategic objective in Syria. It was to remove it from the Russian sphere of influence and dominate the entire Levant region, creating a protectorate centered around Israel that would seal off Russia from warm waters. This objective wasn't reached, therefore the USA lost the war."

I would certainly love to see America's strategic objective in print. In the meantime, all I can do is speculate.

There comes a time for a declining empire when wreaking havoc is a strategic means to maintain dominance. And when the empire's revenue stream depends entirely on that dominance, these considerations become existential. Cutting back emergent competition may keep the show on the road for a few more decades.

Every time I hear the statement that the USA lost the war, I can't help but think of two very different types of people and where they stand at this moment. While syrians sit on rubble, the elite responsible for this production is sitting quite comfortably, sipping single malt, blowing smoke rings.

Posted by: robin | Nov 7 2020 23:00 utc | 214

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 7 2020 16:32 utc | 97 But notice that the process of whitewashing and beatificating Trump is in full display at all the usual pro-Trump sites, like The Saker, in spite that they simulated having given away with him in previous months...

Even Glenn Greenwald has gotten into the act with his latest post on Substack. He just posted a savage attack on the previous administrations of Bush and Obama. He's correct in his assessment of those administrations. He's also correct that those persons from those administrations who have attacked Trump are themselves guilty of worse actions. I have no problem with that. But in declaring that Trump wasn't as bad as Bush and Obama - simply because he didn't start a new war - is still ridiculous. As a person, he was far worse than Bush or Obama. As an administration, he was at least as bad as Bush and Obama because he furthered the cause for war with Iran, and war with China, which will be much more serious wars than Afghanistan or Iraq. That the wars haven't occurred yet is hardly a reason to absolve him of responsibility when they do occur under a subsequent administration.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:01 utc | 215

Laguerre #205

Thank you but - Today's circumstances are never yesterday's circumstances.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 7 2020 23:02 utc | 216

...And on cue, Circe shows us why it was truly a lose/lose. Anyone who thinks Trump acted favorably towards Russia is a racist, Zionist Nutball who couldn't think her way out of a wet paper bag...

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 7 2020 23:04 utc | 217

@Jay | Nov 7 2020 22:53 utc | 212

Just saying something doesn't make it true.

Such a public statement is worth investigating, right? We all want the truth, right?

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 7 2020 23:06 utc | 218

@ Mark2

Appreciate it but I can't stand rap music.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 7 2020 23:07 utc | 219

Posted by: Lawrence Magnuson | Nov 7 2020 16:02 utc | 80 I'm looking for an argument that grants both sides are cheating. A reality-based thing.

Good luck with that.

I said earlier that I assumed there are indeed instances of vote fraud on both sides in this election, as there are in every election. The issue is whether there was enough to claim the election was "stolen". As of today, absolutely zero evidence has been forthcoming. Nothing but assertions and un-investigated claims.

But the "accepted wisdom" is in that Biden stole the election...somehow. Even b appears to have decided it *has* to be true. So that's how it's going to be from now on. Just everyone accepted the notion that the Russians help Trump "steal" the election from Clinton, now everyone believes Biden stole the election from Trump. And so the decline of American discourse will continue unabated.


Do you know how many people believe the President of the U.S. is secretly a foreigner? 24%. That the JFK assassination was an inside job? 76%. 9/11? 57%.
Who believe the entire universe was created in 144 hours? 46%. You stagger through your lives in a mythological fog of ignorance and fear. - Cobra Comnmander, G.I. Joe Comic

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:09 utc | 220

It depends on how you view "history" whether or not the DJT phenomenon will die out or live on, building steam as our neoliberal reality consolidates its power in the hands of fewer and fewer while pushing more and more away from its comforting and providing glow.

If you are like the poster vk and myself, you understand history as a Hegelian in that great forces are testing each other, bouncing off, gathering itself together for another clash and resulting synthesis. But ever forward towards completion.

DJT was and still is the greatest symptom of our neoliberal times and of an antiglobalist epoch that is yet fledgling though getting ready to be relieved of its comfortable nest, pushed out by a testing mother who knows the time has come.

If the bird flies, we can assume that the more horrific aspects of nationalism will be kept under the wing, away from the sun. If it can not flap itself to safety, we can assume the worst will transpire.

A Biden presidency is but a minor blip, an effort to go unrewarded. The idea of Trump will only burn brighter and brighter in the next four years.

Who knows, perhaps you fine members of the world intelligentsia might see the importance of the man by his reaching out to those you forgot and who you deem deplorable, in your coastal, worldly snobbery, smashing the patriarchy and eroding the concept of natural sex.

Us racist, xenophobic, misogynist white nationalists will make our way in history back up to the front. And you will find us more sensible and merciful than your own esteemed technocrats. But we will make sure you are incapable of further damage. Neutered, if you will.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7 2020 23:15 utc | 221

Posted by: james | Nov 7 2020 18:26 utc | 144 Wagon Rolling into Detroit Vote Counting Center in Early Morning fwiw..

I believe I addressed that, or rather one of the articles I cited addressed that. It was a news station cameraman's gear, IIRC. I'm not motivated to go look it up again, you can do that yourself if you care.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:17 utc | 222

Aside from Russia sticking its nose in, Countries like Iran are prepared to defend their land.
Iraq, Libya, and Syria were not prepared at all. Other countries like Russia and China are also prepared.
Add in that the aggressor is thousands of miles from home and the attacked are defending their home, and wars are a spectator sport back home until plane loads of body bags start showing up.
Plus it seems that the US military is in it for the money and not nearly as interested in actual nasty fighting.

Posted by: arby | Nov 7 2020 23:27 utc | 223

RSH wrote

The issue is whether there was enough to claim the election was "stolen". As of today, absolutely zero evidence has been forthcoming.
_______________________________________________

I hate to say it but I think you may see the evidence you ask for. Call it the "November surprise". or maybe it'll be December...

I still believe trump will win this election and it is looking like the evidence of some massive fraud may be the only path to that outcome.

The reason i believe trump will win is that biden winning is not a good outcome for TPTB. Having people with 300 million guns extremely pissed off at you is not good for business. And that is the bottom line.

If I'm right that is really sad because the result will also be massive voter suppression going forward and that is just one result, many other birds will be killed with the same stone.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 7 2020 23:28 utc | 224

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 7 2020 21:55 utc | 194 To my suggestion at #168 that Trump could start a military action against Iran, you say "the military would refuse, in my view". Beware the false flag.

Correct. As I said many times, if a President is presented with a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident, he won't have any choice but to go to war.

Also, the military does not refuse direct orders. They may dissemble and quibble, and under-perform, but they do not refuse orders to go to war. They may counsel against it, but unless they have direct evidence that a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident is a false flag - in which case they will likely present that evidence to the President - they will obey their orders.

Also, as to Jackrabbit's point about build-up, yes, there will be a build-up. But it won't necessarily be five hundred thousand troops sitting in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or wherever. It will be a slow "boiling frog" build-up of aircraft, naval assets, Special Forces teams being moved - most of which will be invisible to anyone not following military troop movements on a daily basis. Once the war actually starts, then a massive logistics movement will definitely occur. But it's also quite possible that there will be a slow build-up similar to the Iraq wars.

All of which also assumes that there won't in fact be an overt incident - such as the Soleimani assassination - that triggers the war, and does not enable the time to do a slow build-up. And if a false flag incident is bad enough so that there is no time to do a proper investigation, the war will start and escalate to the point where the original incident becomes moot - especially if the TPTB want it that way.

Conventional, non-nuclear wars start in many ways. Usually it does entail a buildup of forces. Assuming that it will look like the first or second Iraq war is a mistake, however.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:32 utc | 225

Richard Steven Hack #223

So that's how it's going to be from now on. Just everyone accepted the notion that the Russians help Trump "steal" the election from Clinton, now everyone believes Biden stole the election from Trump. And so the decline of American discourse will continue unabated.


Do you know how many people believe the President of the U.S. is secretly a foreigner? 24%. That the JFK assassination was an inside job? 76%. 9/11? 57%.
Who believe the entire universe was created in 144 hours? 46%. You stagger through your lives in a mythological fog of ignorance and fear. - Cobra Comnmander, G.I. Joe Comic

Thank you for that assessment and great comic quote.

I am afraid that the Demonazis might have to along with that 'stole election' mantra because if there is a universal use of MAIL IN ballots that are beyond their capacity to rort then they may be overwhelmed by those socialist thinking democrats in the primaries.

Can't wait to hear their contorted logic that says OK for the national elections but taboo for the dem primaries. They will either find a way or make one.

Greg Palast will be worth listening to over the next while.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 7 2020 23:32 utc | 226

I remember Billmon's blog well. And this blog is a branch of that. So to see it go snarlingly pro trump is an irony i wish i never saw. What do you think Billmon would say if he had to say a sentence about what this has become?

Posted by: cb | Nov 7 2020 23:38 utc | 227

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 7 2020 22:25 utc | 201
You are being very circular today, and I just can’t let it go.
As a good acolyte, @155 you say: “And, as RSH has stated, any war is unlikely to be a conventional war for territory that requires a build up.”

Then @164 I say: “the answer is nuking Iran?”

Then @201 you say: “I don't think so.”

So, what kind of war is left to fight? If it’s not conventional, it’s nukes. If it’s not nukes, it’s conventional and needs build up. Like a good politician, you’re speaking from both sides of your mouth.

There was a lot talk re contradictions and paradoxes up thread. I think you can’t see the contradictions in your logic.

Also, you have not answered the question as to why he held back previously. On at least 3 occasion he had a good reason to act. I would look for an answer to this first.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 7 2020 23:46 utc | 228

Norwegian, 221:

"Such a public statement is worth investigating, right? We all want the truth, right?"

Public statements by themselves are not evidence.

Posted by: Jay | Nov 7 2020 23:47 utc | 229

Posted by: Jay | Nov 7 2020 22:53 utc | 212 Just saying something doesn't make it true.

It does for these idiots. It's their entire mode of "thinking". It's the equivalent of hitting someone with a board, then asking "have I got your attention?" Nothing has to be supported with evidence - everything is just "self-evident" to that kind of mind. They're basically muggers without the balls to actually physically attack someone.

I was reading an article in a martial arts magazine yesterday. The author, a well-known self-defense expert, was talking about how there are a lot of Internet martial artists who denigrate professionally trained fighters, making assertions with no experience or logic to back them up. I expect he was mainly referencing Reddit, where I read this sort of stuff daily. He attributed this, as many do, to the "keyboard warriors" who infest the Internet, with no accountability for their statements. This always existed, but the Internet has given it wide spread influence.

What matters to these people is aggressive assertions and doubling-down on those assertions if called on them. Then they use the "question tactic" - asking their opponent, "Well, why this? Why that?" Questions are not evidence, of course. By forcing their opponent to do research on the questions, they put the ball in their opponent's court without having to support their arguments themselves. It's basically troll behavior. Then once they're accused of being trolls, they fall back on another standard trope: "You're not arguing fairly. You're violating civil rules of discussion."

Which is amusing, because it's all a complete disregard for rules of intellectual discussion. It's all a planned method of argument, never intended to lead to a rational discussion, but merely to beat down any opposition to their belief system. As I said above, it's basically a mugging - which is what trolls are: Internet muggers. It's fundamentally all a complete lack of intellectual integrity and an inability to reason due to emotional cognitive dissonance over the issue being discussed.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:49 utc | 230

#223 Steven Hack

I'll check out the G.I. Joe comic, seems much more realistic than the MSM.

Posted by: TJ | Nov 7 2020 23:50 utc | 231

jinn227:

Even the New York Post isn't supporting Trump in his quest to prolong this ugly charade of his:

https://nypost.com/2020/11/07/president-trump-your-legacy-is-secure-stop-the-stolen-election-rhetoric/

Various powers in the USA aren't especially afraid of wingnuts with guns.

Posted by: Jay | Nov 7 2020 23:50 utc | 232

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7 2020 23:15 utc | 224 Us racist, xenophobic, misogynist white nationalists will make our way in history back up to the front. And you will find us more...merciful than your own esteemed technocrats.

You got that right. Because any time I get the chance to pop one of you in the head with two .45 hollow points, I'm taking it. You can take that to the bank - and then right to the grave. You want my attention. You got it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:54 utc | 233

@Jay | Nov 7 2020 23:47 utc | 232

Public statements by themselves are not evidence.
Strawman, I get that you are not interested in finding out if the public claims can be supported by evidence. That is why investigations are for.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 7 2020 23:55 utc | 234

Andrei Martyanov on the Cambridge Analytica and 'Russians did it' HOAX. Here

I wonder how the Mercer scoundrels and thieves are feeling.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 7 2020 23:58 utc | 235

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 8 2020 0:00 utc | 236

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 7 2020 22:25 utc | 201
JR, don’t let your mentor here lull into believing that a war with Iran would end any other way than without the use of nukes, or worse yet, a defeated empire.
Also, please read The Saker’s article I linked. It has a funny redneck response in it — them, sand-niggers and all…

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 0:01 utc | 237

@236 rsh

Food doesn't grow in the city my friend.

We will wait for you guys to come out in the open.

We will see about the upper-hand then.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 8 2020 0:01 utc | 238

Norwegian, 237:

"Strawman, I get that you are not interested in finding out if the public claims can be supported by evidence. That is why investigations are for."

You misused the term "strawman". I'm not claiming you said something you didn't and then arguing with that "construction" of mine which I ascribe to you.


I get that you can't cite any evidence that supports the "public statement" you keep harping on.

Cite evidence, or drop it.

Posted by: Jay | Nov 8 2020 0:02 utc | 239

Sakineh Bagoom #231

So, what kind of war is left to fight? If it’s not conventional, it’s nukes. If it’s not nukes, it’s conventional and needs build up. Like a good politician, you’re speaking from both sides of your mouth.

Like a good politician that is exactly what Trump did. He kept the wars going as it placated the MIC and didn't enrage his base some of whom were exhausted with wars. He did what Obama did, used snipers in their current high tech form. He sniped Qassem Soleimani and lots of others. The Harris Biden team are perfectly capable of continuing the Trump doctrine of aggravation and keeping us on the edge of our chairs etc etc.

Building big bright new bangers and sky rockets will be fine for the MIC and the inner war monger in both Harris/Biden can be sated with an occasional high profile assassination. They will celebrate their new hpersonic missiles and smart drone swarm tricksies with lots of fanfare.

That sort of war is entirely possible and it is very successful in squandering an amount of $$$ that could be invested in services for life and people and planet. Besides the funeral industry is at full capacity so who needs dead soldiers. Such is the USAi.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 8 2020 0:11 utc | 240

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 7 2020 23:55 utc | 237 Strawman, I get that you are not interested in finding out if the public claims can be supported by evidence. That is why investigations are for.

When you have an investigation, let us know. Right now, you have zip. Bupkus. Sour grapes.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 8 2020 0:11 utc | 241

Posts 224 and 236 are completely outside the norm of this blog, and prevailing societal norms of mutual respect and respect for the law, morality and open discussion based on facts.

"Because any time I get the chance to pop one of you in the head with two .45 hollow points, I'm taking it. You can take that to the bank - and then right to the grave", is something that should never be seen on this blog, or any other, for that matter.

I expect b to ensure the relatively high level of discourse on this blog for the benefit of all thoughtful people who are genuinely trying to understand the world and times we live in.

Posted by: JB | Nov 8 2020 0:12 utc | 242

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 8 2020 0:01 utc | 241 We will wait for you guys to come out in the open.

Like I'll ever be "out in the open". Good luck with that. You are the ones who'll be out in the open.

Posted by: Richard Steven Heck | Nov 8 2020 0:14 utc | 243

@ Richard Steven Hack | Nov 7 2020 23:17 utc | 225... thanks richard.. i missed it... i posted that in response to a comment jay made... apparently i am not supposed to share stuff, or i get branded a particular way... i find the heated vibe on both sides of the aisle really unfortunate.... also the language towards others is really unimpressive as well...

can an election be stolen? i thought the bush-gore election was stolen.. i tend to think that neither side is that desperate to steal an election and wouldn't resort to really illegal acts to make it happen... so, i could be accused of being naive in all of this.. do i think it happened here?? probably not, but as others have noted, the emphasis is on those making the claim of election trickery or illegal actions... until that is provided - it is irrelevant what people say...

but, i do think of all the bullshite around russiagate and how easily people are conned.... i blame the media in good measure and as william gruff stated much earlier in the thread the CIA and FBI are not doing a very convincing job of it in many respects... would they meddle in an election in a direct manner?? i doubt it, but maybe i am wrong... but again - the emphasis is on those making a claim to prove it... i haven't seen anything like this yet...

on a broader level - i personally think it matters very little who won this election - trump or biden... the usa is on its way down and the election here is further proof of it.. i wish this wasn't the case and i wish i could have faith that biden is going to represent something better but as i have seen in my lifetime, all the promises of something better have been accompanied by a much bigger dose of problems not foreseen by all of these newly elected presidents...

Posted by: james | Nov 8 2020 0:15 utc | 244

Posted by: JB | Nov 8 2020 0:12 utc | 245 Posts 224 and 236 are completely outside the norm of this blog, and prevailing societal norms of mutual respect and respect for the law, morality and open discussion based on facts.

I agree. 236 was a response to 224. As I've said before, while I will respect b's rules, I haven't signed a contract to coddle idiots who violate the rules of intellectual discussion.

As an aside, I have no respect for "law, morality". I *do* have respect for open discussion based on facts - which is precisely what the right-wing trolls here do not respect. And as I said above, the next trope they resort to is "Oh, gee, you're not respecting me" - once their arguments have been debunked.


Posted by: Richard Steven Heck | Nov 8 2020 0:18 utc | 245

@245 jb

Neutering does not imply physical violence.

It means to take away the levers of the neolibs and neocons.

In the future, us deplorables will learn not to be tricked by big tech and msm.

Mr. Hack was onviously triggered by my take on Hegel's history.

My post was nowhere near out of the norm.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 8 2020 0:20 utc | 246

Posted by: james | Nov 8 2020 0:15 utc | 247

Agreed with pretty much everything you said. Anything is possible. I'm just waiting on actual evidence of anything untoward. Everyone else is obsessed with "assertions not in evidence", as they say in court.

Posted by: Richard Steven Heck | Nov 8 2020 0:21 utc | 247

Post 239 was a screwup caused by my being on the VPN. Let me try that again. Also I just noticed I spelled my own name wrong. LOL

Posted by: jinn | Nov 7 2020 23:28 utc | 227 I still believe trump will win this election and it is looking like the evidence of some massive fraud may be the only path to that outcome.

Oh, I agree that could happen. I'm only arguing that there is no *evidence* of massive vote fraud - so far. I have no objection if someone actually *does* turn up such evidence. I just don't expect it based on what's been said and done so far.

The other problem for Trump is that manufacturing evidence of massive vote fraud is even harder than manufacturing the vote fraud itself. That's why most of his lawsuits have been dumped so far - they're based solely on side issues and "assertions not in evidence", as they say in court.

But that doesn't mean it's impossible that some one might pull a rabbit out of a hat (with apologies to Jackrabbit) and either produce some convincing evidence of vote fraud or some legal maneuver to invalidate actually valid votes.

This is 2020. Anything is possible. Anyone remember when Nixon put the US nuclear forces on red alert for no apparent reason? Anyone want to bet Trump couldn't possibly do the same thing or an equivalent?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 8 2020 0:25 utc | 248

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 8 2020 0:11 utc | 243
Thanks for the reply uncle t.

While on a walk, I was pondering the imponderables today: With all the people working from home nowadays, how is the home invasion industry fairing? Are thieves still thieving with impunity?

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 0:32 utc | 249


Jay @235
Even the New York Post isn't supporting Trump in his quest to prolong this ugly charade of his:
______________________________________

The New York Post doesn't have access to the same intel that trump has.

________________________________________
Various powers in the USA aren't especially afraid of wingnuts with guns.
_________________________________

Ha Ha ha
Yeah sure. There on your side.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 8 2020 0:33 utc | 250

Right Wing Watch is having a feast on the writhing carcass of the loony bird.

Enjoy the gloat.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 8 2020 0:40 utc | 251

jinn, 253:


The New York Post doesn't have access to the same intel that trump has.


Couple things:

That has nothing to do with what you claimed above about some parties being afraid of wingnuts with guns.

Nor of course did you say anything about some secret intelligence only Trump has, but that sure is very like Iraq war pushers in 2003, so the NYPost, et al, and Russiagate pushers in 2017-20, so the NY Times.


Your other comment below the dashes makes no sense.

Posted by: Jay | Nov 8 2020 0:41 utc | 252

The other problem for Trump is that manufacturing evidence of massive vote fraud is even harder than manufacturing the vote fraud itself.
___________________________________________

Manufacturing voter fraud is not that hard. Getting away with it makes it hard but we are not talking about getting away with it.

It does not seem like it would be very hard to get people to do stupid things in an election that people are so worked up about.
If TPTB get people to commit terrorist acts to further their agendas and narratives getting people to commit some election fraud seems rather trivial by comparison.

But it doesn't have to be fraud. The races is some states are are so close that clerical errors could do the trick.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 8 2020 0:53 utc | 253

The heady euphoria of U.S. voters clashes with the wild-eyed disappointment of others among them. I wonder if emotional excess is all drawn from the same poisoned well. Clearly they do not see what is coming. The cynical crowd who sold Saddam Hussein chemical weapons tech also baited the trap that destroyed him; they were just biding their time. The fools will in time uproot their own country, and will come to believe that they can get away with destroying anything, anyone. What will happen to this country when the dystopia that surrounds us chooses to see people as just another commodity to used or purged from existence, when they no longer have utility, a task to fulfill?

Glenn Greenwald recently did a report on a huge commercial hog farm in Iowa that found it too expensive to humanely euthanize thousands of its animals; and so they shut down ventilation in the huge enclosures and turned up the heat, and literally tortured these creatures to death; and these could be heard squealing and shrieking for hours until the silence finally settled. The neoliberal order has no compunction about causing suffering; for it will not consider relief for humans incarcerated in its crowded prisons in a time of pestilence. What hope is there for those joyous or outraged people in the street who are still in the grips of their strange delusions?

Posted by: Copeland | Nov 8 2020 0:56 utc | 254

I'm struggling to understand the sympathy for Trump from some quarters.

Here is one 'elite' put into power by a corruption of the democratic process. No different from all the previous 'elites' put into power by that same perversion of the democratic process.

Now he has been removed in favour of another 'elite', again by the same perversion of the democratic process.

I swear I will never understand the urge humans have to take flawed men, lacking in almost all virtue and raise them as gods over themselves for rulers

Truly we deserve the tyranny we choose ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 8 2020 1:04 utc | 255

I just have one thing to note: Trump remains POTUS until 20 January 2021. And all the nuts in his administration remain until then too unless they resign or get fired. IMO, it's the unelected parts of the government that deserve watching, especially Jerome Powell at the Fed who was declared the election's real winner by Barron's on October 30. IMO, there's a lot to be said in favor of Crooke's latest:

"One clear outcome of the U.S. election was the collapse of the promised ‘Blue Wave’ – an implosion that marks the ‘beginning of the end’ to a powerful spell enthralling the West. It was the delusion which Ron Chernow, the acclaimed U.S. presidential historian, gave credence, as he contemptuously dismissed America’s “topsy-turvy moment” as purely ephemeral, and a 'surreal interlude in American life': No longer can it be said that there is one ‘normal’. Win or lose the White House, Red Trumpism remains as ‘President’ for half America....

"The fact remains that the election has produced a result in which it is abundantly clear that one half of the American electorate precisely voted to oust the other half. It is gridlock – with the Supreme Court and Senate in the hands of one party, and the House of Representatives and White House (possibly) in the hands of the other. As Glenn Greenwald warns [link at original]:

"No matter what the final result, there will be substantial doubts about its legitimacy by one side or the other, perhaps both. And no deranged conspiracy thinking is required for that. An electoral system suffused with this much chaos, error, protracted outcomes and seemingly inexplicable reversals will sow doubt and distrust even among the most rational citizens."

Make that two elections in a row as 2016 was just as chaotic. Escobar's satire will be Truth for many. And captured as it is by Neoliberalism, the D-Party has no tools to solve the USA's problems since those who still believe they must be more like Republicans to beat Republicans remain in control--and that includes Biden and Harris. The explosion of COVID cases will worsen as nothing will be done during the Lame Duck period making any economic resurgence unlikely. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear calls for a nationwide shutdown during February being termed politically impossible thus making COVID a permanent liability.

As for war with China or Russia, or massive escalation in Ukraine, we must wait and see. IMO, COVID must be solved prior to any such actions. My one prediction is 2024 will be an even more heated struggle than 2020.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 8 2020 1:14 utc | 256

I celebrate that DJT will have to forego an abjectly offensive arm twisting policy towards
other lesser states to secure US dominance uber alles.

Not that Biden's will be different. His policies may be more persuasive and less coercive.

The litmus test will be his attitude towards Venezuela aided by the votes or Florida.

Posted by: CarlD | Nov 8 2020 1:15 utc | 257

Posted by: jinn | Nov 8 2020 0:53 utc | 256 Manufacturing voter fraud is not that hard. Getting away with it makes it hard but we are not talking about getting away with it.

Why not? If you don't get away with it, it doesn't work. That applies to either Dems voter fraud or Trump manufacturing the evidence for Dems voter fraud.

"It does not seem like it would be very hard to get people to do stupid things in an election that people are so worked up about."

True. That's one reason why I say there is very likely voter fraud on both sides. The question is whether it was enough to "steal the election." Who cares if a half dozen counties misrepresented the vote if they weren't enough to throw the election. You have to do voter fraud on a large enough scale - at least in swing states - to throw the election. That's *always* hard because you don't know for sure how the valid election votes is going to go. That's why the parties spend their time these days on *pre-rigging* the election by redistricting and voter roll clearing.

"But it doesn't have to be fraud. The races is some states are are so close that clerical errors could do the trick."

Possibly. Again, based on past history, that's unlikely. We've already seen some clerical errors - one in particular that caused the alleged "ballots found" story in Wisconsin, IIRC. But it didn't change anything. The clerical error has to be at least in the tens of thousands of votes in most of the swing states we've seen so far. And really, it has to be Pennsylvania so those 20 Electoral College votes go to Trump rather than Biden. Difficult to do, since Pennsylvania is historically Democratic, even if they went for Trump in 2016. Or it has to be in multiple swing states with 15-16 votes each. Nevada, for example, won't matter since it only has six. Biden is on track to get close to 300 Electoral College votes - so any reversal has to reverse him back down below 270. I don't see clerical errors doing that. Only vote fraud on a significant scale is likely to do that. And again, no real evidence of that has surfaced.

In any event, again, anything is possible - but we haven't seen it yet. So claims about "stolen election" are premature. That's all I've been saying.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 8 2020 1:18 utc | 258

Sakineh Bagoom @Nov7 23:46 #231

So, what kind of war is left to fight? If it’s not conventional, it’s nukes. If it’s not nukes, it’s conventional and needs build up. Like a good politician, you’re speaking from both sides of your mouth.

Well, it would be an unconventional conventional war in that it is not fought in the conventional, territory-grabbing way.

It's already begun, if one considers the crushing sanctions regime to be like a barrage that 'softens' enemy lines.

It's not difficult to see how such a war might be fought: extensive use of drones, space weapons(?), trade sanctions, sabotage, cyber attacks, propaganda ops to generate civil unrest, etc.

=
Also, you have not answered the question as to why he held back previously. On at least 3 occasion he had a good reason to act. I would look for an answer to this first.

He simply didn't have cassus belli.

  • Trump/USA's claims that Iran attacked Saudi oil infrastructure was bullshit as everyone knew it was the Hoothi.
  • Iran's downing a stray drone is not something that warrants war. The Trump Administration pressured Iran to accept an attack as retaliation and then demanded (with Israel) that Russia allow such an attack. Iran and Russia rejected these idiotic entreaties.
  • Trump killed Soleimani and maybe Trump was hoping THAT would start a war. Apparently Trump's Generals (and/or other 'adults in the room') wouldn't be sucked into fighting a major war based on Trump's illegal act and they accept a missile attack on a US base instead.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8 2020 1:24 utc | 259

So a few naive liberal Americans are unhappy with B's position. Too bad and no one will miss you. It is entirely logical to be simultaneously happy that Trump (a geriatric, corrupt, pervert) lost, and deeply disappointed that Biden (a geriatric, corrupt, pervert) won. America is now going to experience its very own Konstantin Chernenko. But the time when things fly apart will have to wait for some future 3rd rate president to actually try to fight a peer opponent. They will lose, and in that moment when America's boot is lifted off of the world's throat, all hell will break loose.

vk@188 - China does not need to invade Taiwan which is located 160km from the mainland coast and 12,000km from the USA. Anti-Access/Area Denial weapons (of which China has plenty) are perfectly capable of winning that fight with few or no shots fired. There is nothing the the USA or Taiwan can do about it. You will never see the USN sail one of their little boats through a hot Strait of Taiwan or even come within 1000 km of it in a real dispute with China.

Posted by: sad canuck | Nov 8 2020 1:28 utc | 260

He simply didn't have cassus belli.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8 2020 1:24 utc | 262

Come-on Jackrabbit. Children read these pages. Some post here too.

Perhaps you too have "head trauma" from the slap that was administered.
If you don't understand rocket attacks on your bases as "cassus belli" stop posting your BS here. It's getting tiresome.


Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 1:33 utc | 261

I believe Biden was meant to defeat Trump and here's some strange symbolism that's hard to deny.

A prophetic moment happened in a recent Biden speech at one of his car rallies.

I found it posted in an article on a site I infrequently frequent and mostly dislike.

No, it's not just the 2 bald eagles that strangely flew overhead while Biden spoke.

Scroll to the end of the article to the still photo of Biden delivering a speech. There's a significant omen behind him, captioned: If you see it, reply "Got it!".
Imagine me seeing this BEFORE the harrowing 4-day countdown?

So Biden defeating Trump feels like fate.

Omens

But for me there's the son of a Parkland shooting victim spontaneously bringing out the best in Biden that demonstrates more emphatically why he was the right person to defeat Trump.

Sorry, you all know Bernie was my guy, but you can't fight this moment.

https://youtu.be/oITUm8MushI

One more thing: Biden visited his childhood home in Scranton on Election Day and wrote something on the livingroom wall for the new owner:

From this house to the White House with the grace of God. Joe Biden 11-3-2020

Writing on the wall

Posted by: Circe | Nov 8 2020 1:36 utc | 262

You’re better than this. There was no Russian interference beyond what the two countries have always attempted to do. I’d bet my next year’s pay that the Steele dossier was Russian disinformation from the beginning. But there was never any vote stealing. Just using media, etc. The difference is that Russia found someone stupid enough to fall for it. Putin’s only goal (because any other was unrealistic) was to embarrass the US. He was doing what he could to give the US its Yeltsin: a venal, incompetent buffoon with the strong potential to bring the country to its knees. No intelligence agency worth the name would have Donald Trump as an actual asset, but he makes an easy mark to put your finger on and an even easier one to show a dangle.

The Dems just didn’t want to admit that their candidate and campaign were so bad that they lost to Donald trump. So they fixated on the Russia thing (again, not anything both countries haven’t done to each other but never with such success). But to suggest that Trump had a good or even anti-imperial foreign policy is laughable. He chomped at the bit for war with Iran. He assassinated an Iranian flag officer in a third country. He flipping moved the US embassy in Israel. He was very bad for the empire, but not intentionally. Had he seen a way to personally profit from the empire he would have done it. He wanted great big military parades and it wasn’t just Bolton who was trying to coup Venezuela.

All he did was to show and potentially accelerate the empire’s decline. Biden will be awful and he fantasizes about a time now past. With the pandemic raging here as it is, we’re a plague state. It’s not the end, but clearly the decline. Four years from now we’ll get Trump’s authoritarian impulses packaged in something besides a diaper and senility. And he will make one last attempt to secure the empire with extraordinary violence. He’ll fail because it’s too late but the carnage will be significant. A second Trump term would have potentially sped this up. But if you think that man wouldn’t fire off nukes just because he was pissy (and hey, he still could!), then you’ve gone around the bend from the traditional rigor of your analysis.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 8 2020 1:40 utc | 263

President Trump Can't Sue His Way to a Second Term. Why He Is Trying Anyway


With the notable exception of the 2000 presidential race, which was effectively decided by the Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore, it is voters who decide elections. And that, legal experts say, is the main flaw with Trump’s strategy: Biden has won too many votes for the Trump campaign to mount any legal challenge that would actually change the outcome.

For an election to be successfully litigated, experts say, the margins between the candidates have to be exceedingly close. The dispute between George W. Bush and Al Gore two decades ago, for example, hinged on just 537 votes in Florida. Election litigation is only consequential, says Nathaniel Persily, a professor at Stanford Law School, “if the number of contested ballots exceeds the margin of victory.”

As of November 7, Biden is leading Trump by over 4 million votes, according to the Associated Press. The state-by-state count that determines the electoral college count is even more daunting for the President. Biden leads Trump by nearly 35,000 votes in Pennsylvania, 25,700 in Nevada, 20,500 in Arizona and 7,250 in Georgia. Trump needed victories in nearly all of these states to amass 270 electoral votes, and the Associated Press has called every one but Georgia in favor of Biden. (Other outlets have withheld calling Arizona for Biden). Recount laws vary by state, but in every state except Georgia, the margins appear too large for the states to automatically issue one.

That last sentence is correct. I've just been over at FiveThirtyEight, and they analyzed the recount requirements in the swing states. Wisconsin sits at a margin of 0.6 percentage points now, Georgia at a razor-tight 0.1, Pennsylvania at 0.5 and Arizona at 0.6. Georgia is the only one guaranteed a recount.


The campaign has other legal options beyond recounts, but experts say those are also unlikely to succeed. The Trump team can, for example, contest the validity of the remaining ballots that have yet to be counted. Or they can sue to get some ballots thrown out on the basis that they were filled out unlawfully. So far, their record on both counts is not encouraging for the President.

Prior to the election, Republicans in Texas, including an activist and a local legislator, tried to get ballots thrown out in Harris County, where they argued that nearly 130,000 ballots cast at a “drive-through” polling location were unconstitutional. That argument did not pass muster in either state or federal courts. In Nevada, the Trump campaign unsuccessfully tried to sue to halt ballot-counting in Clark County, only to appeal to the Supreme Court after a lower court rejected the claims. (The campaign has tentatively reached a settlement with Nevada officials to allow increased access).

The post-election legal landscape doesn’t look much better for Trump, as the barrage of litigation his campaign has already filed since November 3 shows. In the past four days, the campaign has filed more than half a dozen lawsuits in state and federal courts in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Michigan and Georgia. Most of these cases attempt to push for more access to the ballot counting process, and allege without evidence that fraudulent votes have been cast. They’ve seen little success. Judges in Michigan, Nevada, and Georgia have collectively rejected three cases.

The only real success the Trump campaign had this week was in Philadelphia, where a Judge ruled they could be within six feet of watching the canvassing process. But even that decision has already been appealed to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, and legal experts say that, at a minimum, it will merely slow down the process.

Most important, even if the courts allow more Republican-led lawsuits to proceed, and the campaign wins some of them, experts say any decision is unlikely to alter the outcome because Biden’s lead over Trump is too large. “We’re not seeing situations that the margins of change are possible in areas that would change the electoral count,” says Myrna Perez, director of the Brennan Center’s Voting Rights and Elections Program.

Taken together, few see a way to victory for Trump through the courts. “None of the litigation filed so far seems plausibly calculated to overturn the result of the election. Many complain about things like access to the counting facility, which doesn’t change election outcomes,” Rick Hasen, an election law expert at University of California Irvine, wrote in an e-mail to TIME. “Some raise unsubstantiated claims of fraud, and on a very small scale.”

The one lawsuit Hasen thinks still has a chance of success is the dispute over Pennsylvania ballots that arrived between election day and November 6. In mid-September, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that ballots received through November 6 could be counted, even if they did not have a legible postmark. The Pennsylvania Republican Party twice appealed to the Supreme Court. The second time, the court declined to expedite the case, but did not rule out hearing it after the election. On Friday, in response to a request from Pennsylvania Republicans, Justice Samuel Alito ordered that all mail-in ballots received after election day must be segregated, even though election officials had already ordered counties to do that...

So why pursue a legal strategy that seems so clearly destined to fail? For Trump, some observers say, the goal may not be to win the election so much as to cast a pall of uncertainty over the results, thereby encouraging the perception, however unfounded, that he is the victim of fraud and remains the rightful leader of his fervent base. “This is all looking increasingly like disinformation through litigation, rather than plausible legal claims,” says Joshua Geltzer, executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown Law.

RSH Take: Exactly. It's Trump being Trump. And his idiot supporters being his idiot supporters.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 8 2020 1:46 utc | 264

Inside the Trump campaign as it grapples with defeat while plowing forward with legal fight
Trump staffers are getting prank called while manning a voter fraud hotline.


Though the Trump team has filed lawsuits in several states, sources familiar with the actions stress to ABC News that there has been internal bickering over the suits with some members of the president's legal team feeling they are "pointless" and "meritless." Sources said in particular former New York City Mayor Giuliani, who is now the president's personal attorney, and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi's involvement should be seen as "the actions of Trump's warriors who will do anything and ignore the obvious reality that this is over."

Meanwhile, Trump has been defiant in the face of defeat, repeatedly and baselessly claiming he won the election in a series of all-caps tweets on Saturday after spending a few hours at his golf club in Virginia.

Another aide noted that they were proud that the president had expanded support from 2016, but, ultimately, the results show it wasn't enough to overcome "how much so many people hate him," citing the president's handling of the coronavirus and relentless efforts to discredit mail-in ballots as key issues.

Since Election Day, many Trump campaign staffers have been huddled on a noisy floor in the campaign's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters fielding hundreds of calls a day on a hotline the campaign set up as they try to find instances of voter fraud, multiple sources told ABC News.

But the hotline has turned into a nightmare for some, as staffers, some of whom have contracts that expire in the coming days, have been bombarded with prank calls from people laughing or mocking them over Biden's win before hanging up, sources tell ABC News. Prank calling the Trump campaign's hotline has already become a trend on TikTok, the social media network that was used earlier in the year in an attempt to tank the president's rally in Tulsa by mass-requesting tickets.

To quote William S. Burroughs, "Way we like to see them..."

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 8 2020 1:53 utc | 265

Sakineh Bagoom @Nov8 1:33 #264

rocket attacks on your bases as "cassus belli"

Iran had a cassus belli, USA didn't.

USA accepted a missile attack to avoid war.

moa readers understand that if USA is going to be involved in a major war, they will strive to make it seem like a 'just war' so that allies and the public support the war.

For someone that presents themselves as knowledgeable, your blind spots are telling. As are your determined attacks on anyone that considers that USA-Israel-Saudi war with Iran is not impossible/inconceivable.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8 2020 2:17 utc | 266

@Richard Steven Hack:
Your ad hominem attacks are not helpful at all.
For people outside US Biden or Trump makes no difference both absolute rotten. Like the so called real democracy in US.

Posted by: Wolle | Nov 8 2020 2:22 utc | 267

Near the beginning of Biden's speech tonight he said “They delivered us a clear victory, a convincing victory.”

hahahaha. clear and convincing. I doubt it
I am sure that there are quite a few tens of millions of people very skeptical of that assessment tonight

Germany and other european nations have their results in about 2-4 hours, from what I hear.

And

https://twitter.com/MaxAbrahms/status/1324843615428947969
"Democrats are absolutely correct that if Trump doesn’t have the votes he should congratulate his opponent, affirm the integrity of our institutions, note he lost fair & square, then go quietly into the night for America — so the exact opposite of Hillary’s response in 2016."

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 8 2020 2:37 utc | 268

Although I would never have and didn't vote for him, I am surprised to find I would have preferred Trump to have been re-elected. Mainly because it takes some kind of competency to have gotten Biden elected.
The weakest with the most obvious issues Democratic candidate I have seen in my 70+ life (although Clinton with his sexual predator issue was just as corrupt but at least he could talk). Even if as it appears competent enough to carry out election fraud in swing states. This means as Pepe Escobar said the blob will be running things but without the wrench in the works that Trump was by his incompetency. It is payback for the Republicans who certainly committed fraud to get Baby Bush elected. I will not be sad to see Jared go. It did appear to me that if the Deep State didn't want Trump to be re-elected then they would have to bring on the next economic catastrophe to before the election. Lo and behold even the world economy was wrecked to help enable the "great reset".
This is the first election I just didn't vote as there was nothing of interest to me in the state part of the election. Whatever system a country uses the idea is that you want it to put competent people to be put in positions where the decisions made matter. Trump Biden US National politics is broken.

Posted by: gepay | Nov 8 2020 2:42 utc | 269

Boy, that escalated quickly!

Posted by: blues | Nov 8 2020 2:43 utc | 270

michaelj72 | Nov 8 2020 2:37 utc | 271:

I had the same reaction. Good luck to him and Harris on uniting the country. I'm surprised Biden lasted as long as he did.

Posted by: Ian2 | Nov 8 2020 2:46 utc | 271

I do not think we will see a Trumpist president again in our lifetime. He was a 4 year long cat five storm blowing through the political establishment. The Republican establishment will be happy to be rid of him.

Back to the Bushes, Romneys, and McCain like candidates on their side. In other words, back to normal. Every time I take dump from now I will look back and watch the Coriolis effect of shit going down the drain and think about how wonderful the world will now be and hope I am still young enough to remember to wipe my ass.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 8 2020 2:47 utc | 272

@Sakineh Bagoom 252
With all the people working from home nowadays, how is the home invasion industry fairing? Are thieves still thieving with impunity?
Nah, the guys with guns are on duty.
news report
A Florida husband said he fatally shot his pregnant wife after waking up in the middle of the night and thinking she was an intruder.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 3:05 utc | 273

Carlton Meyer had an interesting thought:

Our media pretends that its billionaire owners decide elections, based on their maps. If that seems wrong, it is. They don't report that it's the state legislators who decide which delegates are chosen to represent each state. In four of the contested states, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Arizona, the state legislature is controlled by Republicans who must certify the election results presented by their secretary of state.
Republican leaders in either the state assembly or senate can simply ignore this requirement and wait for the deadline this month to pass. If asked, they can claim the race is too close to call or fraught with fraud. If not certified, no delegates are sent to vote, so Biden loses votes awarded by CNN. No lawsuits or court rulings are required. If they want to get aggressive, they can vote to tweak their state law and choose delegates themselves as specified in the US Constitution, choosing all Republicans who will vote for Trump! This is legal and constitutional. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 3:09 utc | 274

karlof1 @ 259, I thank you again for the pdf link on China, which I have to say I found rather repetitive, though at the time of its publication it no doubt was popular in China. Interesting that back then, in 2011, the first chapter "Not misreading oneself" has the theme of pride in achievements as opposed to subservience as a character building exhortation, and the book ends with the example of the frog in the well, described as not applying to China as far as "parochialism, narrowmindedness, and complacency" are concerned. Instead, the risk being that these characteristics might better be applied to the west as 'last frog in the well."

There is a lot of truth in the exposition, and yet I do have a feeling that a lot has been glossed over. It rather reads a bit as a MAGA description of the US might well be - no apparent faults to the Chinese temperament, and yet the Chinese are human beings like the rest of us. I don't want to sound too harsh because the actual progress has been amazing, and there is a lot to learn. Still, my daughter is raising her sons in the US; to each his own.

It's good we can't see how the next president will govern. Perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised. I don't really expect it, but at least for a while yet we can hope. All circumstances are very different from the past, and unlike some, I don't think the past determines the future, even if in many ways there can be echoes...

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future,
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

[The Four Quartets: T.S.Eliot, first quartet - Burnt Norton]

Posted by: juliania | Nov 8 2020 3:15 utc | 275

where's the guy who claimed 'trump will win by landslide' mr jack rabbit

the influx of delusional trump supporters are laugh riot in MoA , even now when biden won 2020 they still cannot accept it

Posted by: milomilo | Nov 8 2020 3:15 utc | 276

I would not know who won nor why.
But when I voted, they opted not you use the machine and required a provisional ballot instead and when I complted it the person helping me took the sealed ballot from my hand and threw it in an open satchel with a few others 50 - 100 I would estimate. In my area I might be presumed a Trump voter by my appearance. Squirely as F. A developed nation would be embarrassed. In what way was the voting process improved. What if the vote taking were deem invalid - would anyone have nerve to make such determination.
Really in my area it would not matter if my vote were not counted as there is essentially zero chance for other than democrat.

Posted by: jared | Nov 8 2020 3:16 utc | 277

@ karlof1 259
The explosion of COVID cases will worsen
Military.com, Oct 1
COVID-19 Cases Reaching Record Highs in Military, Among Veterans
>The Department of Veterans Affairs is seeing a resurgence of patients with COVID-19, with the number of active cases at 6,454 as of Tuesday, exceeding the record high of 6,424 set July 20. In addition to a surge in cases, VA facilities are seeing an increase in deaths: 4,060 as of Tuesday, with nearly 700 of those in the past month.
>The military services continue to struggle to contain the coronavirus, with the seven-day average of new cases across the Defense Department at 703 as of Oct. 30 and inching toward the record seven-day average of 806 set July 22.
also:
> Military Suicides Reached All-Time High in 2019, and military suicides have increased by as much as 20 percent this year compared to the same period in 2019, and some incidents of violent behavior have spiked as service members struggle under COVID-19, war-zone deployments, national disasters and civil unrest

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 3:27 utc | 278

Got a call from a friend in the States this past afternoon. He had some interesting takes. I used to work closely with the MIC, on the outside as a contractor. He said his boss, the company president, had encouraged all employees that he could to vote for Trump because Biden would be bad for business. Aren't wars generally good for business in that sector? Let me answer that question: they're GREAT for business. I saw several people become millionaires during the 8 years of the Cheney administration. So how do we square the notion that the military and its contracting community didn't want Biden elected with the idea that he's about to start several wars?

I, for one, don't think it's as simple as b's analysis. Did Trump start any NEW wars? I would argue that he tried when they assassinated Soleimani and a few other things Pompeous did. But fine, he didn't actually invade any sovereign countries or put many more boots on the ground in Syria. Africa is a dark secret in American press coverage of the military so we don't know much about US involvement, and I assume that the Saudis are still using American military assistance and U.S. made bombs to attack Yemen. But there really weren't too many "easy" new wars to get into. The Arab Spring is long gone, and the US isn't going to get into a military conflict on Russia's flanks where they are running color revolutions. Even there, when you subtract Ukraine, the remaining dominoes aren't all that appealing. What's the geostrategic importance or economic reason to overthrow Belarus' government? Other than to add yet another NATO nation encircling Russia and of course ripping their markets apart for Western "investment." Either way, there weren't many low hanging apples for Trump to attack and there wasn't a 9/11 or Arab Spring type event. SO I think Trump's lack of bellicosity might be more coincidence than b does.

Now, will Biden ratchet up the situation in and around Syria? Maybe but I kind of doubt it. I think that ship has sailed, but I could be very wrong. Also, there remain very few low hanging fruit if his administration and the hawks that surround it are indeed plotting something. It's going to require another false flag, IMO, and a big one. But again, what the hell do I know. b could be totally right.

No matter what happens, one thing that we can all count on is another massive military spending bill, bigger than the one before it, every year in congress - AND - Joe Biden happily signing off on it.

I do wonder what becomes of Julian Assange, and I will never forgive Trump for following through on what the previous administration refused to do.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 3:30 utc | 279

For someone that presents themselves as knowledgeable, your blind spots are telling. As are your determined attacks on anyone that considers that USA-Israel-Saudi war with Iran is not impossible/inconceivable.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8 2020 2:17 utc | 269


That’s the type of shite that your mentor has been peddeling for over a decade now. Well done. The indoctrination is complete.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 3:40 utc | 280

Also, with the anticipated softening of relations with China, does anyone have an informed opinion on what might happen with the Huawei executive that was detained in Canada. Will the Biden administration call off the Canadian (lap) dogs that are currently fighting to extradite her?

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 3:43 utc | 281

I find the following quote disingenuous and infuriating partly for all my enumerated points @215.

Trump was good for world peace. He didn’t start a war anywhere, which is not something that can be said for most of his predecessors.

Trump was never going to initiate war in his first term, but all his belligerent, intrusive acts against Iran were meant to weaken Iran for eventual war, like a bull is weakened with mutilation and cruelty before the matador leans in for the kill. From his Game of Thrones Winter's Coming Threat to murdering Soleimani and everything in between, including trashing the JCPOA and reimposing sanctions, Ziofascist Trump had an obsession with Iran for God's sake that he meant to satisfy!

************
On another note:

Will Trump issue a pardon for himself and his family on the way out?

what-trump-may-try-to-do

For sure Trump will face legal scrutiny as Citizen Trump, however, if he does try to pardon himself and members of his family, it will indicate consciousness of guilt.

Bush got away with a lot. He should have been impeached for Iraq or charged later for war crimes. By the way, I consider Trump on par with Bush as the two worst Presidents ever.

Trump should be tried for corruption on many levels and negligent homicide.

I'm just ecstatic his rule is OVER, before he did even more harm unfettered in a second term.

Trump's defeat alone is peace!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 8 2020 3:45 utc | 282

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 1:33 utc | 264

I think you've got it backwards. The Iranian attacks on illegal American military bases in their backyard was a RESPONSE to the US assassination of one of their highest generals and a warning was phoned in well in advance. Why do you think that nobody was killed? Come on. We can thank the strategic and tactical genius (relative to their foe) for there not being a real war. They also understood that it was a PR move. Demonstrate to the US (and everyone else, including Israel) that their weapons are VERY accurate. If the situation were reversed and Mike Pompeo had been assassinated while visiting Iraq, the Trump administration would have immediately declared war and started plotting the destruction of Iran.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 3:48 utc | 283

Jonathan Cook has written what strikes me as a perfect analysis of the current US electoral situation and the US electorate. I regard him as a top-tier, thoughtful and perceptive observer, and I think he provides the best summation of the state of the game that I have yet seen:

The task before ‘Sleepy Joe’ is to put liberal America right back to sleep

Large swaths of the population don’t bother to vote out of hard-borne experience. The system is so rigged against them that they don’t think it matters much which corporate party is in power. The outcome will be the same for them either way.

Others vote third party, or consciously abstain in protest at big money’s vice-like grip on the two-party system. Others, appalled at the prospect of Trump – and before him the two Bushes, and before that Ronald Reagan – were forced once again to vote for the Democratic ticket with a heavy heart. They know all too well who Biden is (a creature of his corporate donors) and what he stands for (whatever his corporate donors want). But he is slightly less monstrous than his rival, and in the US system those are the meaningful electoral options.

And among Trump’s supporters too, there are many desperate for wholesale change. They voted for Trump because at least he paid lip service to change.

These groups – most likely a clear electoral majority – could redirect the US towards political, social, even spiritual growth, if they could find a way to come together. They suffer from their own enervating divisions.

I don't have the time or energy to say any more about this but I recommend the read. It's mercifully short and concise, but it cuts very deeply, and speaks of existential challenges, which is what the US political organism actually faces, I believe.

And those "enervating divisions" of course are precisely what we experience in this thread - this is not a remote phenomenon but a current existential challenge that we all here are in the middle of and that we should solve.

The failure to solve this will run something like this, from the article:

That is why this US election – at a moment when the need for real, systemic change is more urgent, more evident than ever before – produced not just one but two of the worst presidential candidates of all time. We are looking at exactly what happens when a whole society not only stops growing but begins to putrefy.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 8 2020 3:49 utc | 284

So now the election results go the courts and will probably end up at the US Supreme Court. However, I'm not really sure what the supreme court could actually do if it ruled in favor of Trump. The US Constitution says that the electoral college has to vote by Dec 14/20. So it would be impossible to hold a second vote in any state within that timeframe. They could invalidate some ballots that meet certain criteria (was received by "X" date, etc...), but again the US Constitution is quite clear that the states are in charge of how elections are handled so the impacted states could simply ignore the ruling (they'd face a contempt of court charge, but realistically what can the Supreme Court do to enforce its' ruling before Dec 14/20). The Court could rule that impacted states are ineligible to send electors to the Capital to cast their votes for President. But that would 1) effectively disenfranchise those entire states (Using a bazooka to kill a fly) and 2) neither Trump or Biden would meet the 270 required votes (unless there was a backroom deal done between the electors beforehand to unify behind one candidate). That would mean the House of Representatives would get to decide who the next President is and they would certainly vote for Biden.

I still believe that the US Supreme will want to hear the case if for no other reason to re-assert Federal control of the standards used for Federal elections at the state level (The Voting Rights Act was based on this concept so refusing to hear the case would weaken the Act). I personally think we'd get a hybrid ruling where Trump would get a minor victory (some votes thrown out but not enough to change the results at the state level) and the Court would also recommend certain changes to how future votes are conducted. This would also be a face-saving solution for all of the parties, Trump would get to say that there was voter fraud, Biden would still get to be President and the US government would say that short-comings were found and will be fixed for future elections. Judges can, of course, always surprise you, but generally speaking, earth-shaking judgements are very rare and the US Supreme Court overturning the election results from several states would definitely be earth-shaking, regardless of the level of fraud involved in the vote.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 8 2020 3:49 utc | 285

i forget who said it (maybe chris hedges) but around the last election someone wrote, "if trump didn't get elected right wing america would be sure to vomit up a candidate who makes him look like a leftist saint by comparison in 2020". it will happen because the democrats are still whores, still inept and still the party of rahm. they care about winning elections (and have collectivelt agreed the law doesn't apply when you're "fighting a fascist") but when it comes to governing they're cardboard cut-outs just like the republicans of whom they've become clones over decades of neoliberal reagan worship.

as you mentioned, one of the most "face palm" aspects of the past week has been the petulant and - for lack of a better word - shitty tone in the media; in general but especially when trump questioned the votes. from the same twats who spent 4 years screeching (i use that word a lot lately) about putin clones voting in ohio and piss tapes and how "evidence means nothing if we don't like it, you peasants". for example, the pictures of hunter biden trading crack for sexy time are "unfounded conspiracies" even when they're staring you right in the goddamn face.

plumpguido will not be missed but given the average staying power of the neocon pricks in trump's cabinet he might have been booted soon anyway. plus he and bolton have the fetid stench of adelson all over them. it's not like joe "i am a zionist" biden will resist that type or their tribal desires.

Posted by: the pair | Nov 8 2020 3:51 utc | 286

@ _K_C_ 286
the Trump administration would have immediately declared war and started plotting the destruction of Iran.
They're free to plot, but Iran would have been attacked long ago, by the "real men who go to Iran," if it were possibly logical. But it wasn't and it isn't. Iran has many ballistic missiles on underground platforms zeroed in on the US bases with 40,000 troops and dependents in the Gulf, plus ships in the Gulf and at sea. Also Hezbollah has thousands of missiles pointed toward Israeli cities. . .The US (like Israel) only picks on easy targets (and loses).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 3:59 utc | 287

And yes I understand that only Congress can "declare" war, but that's ancient history. Trump would have invoked some power or other, probably the AUMF or whatever it's called nowdays and immediately started bombing Iranian population centers and military bases if Iran had assassinated Mike Pompeous. The Iranians, like the Chinese and Russians are much smarter than their aggressors.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 4:01 utc | 288

Sun Tzu: The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 4:05 utc | 289

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 3:59 utc | 290

So you're saying that in the event of the magnitude of the US Secretary of State and whoever was in his delegation were murdered while on some sort of peace making mission in Iraq and Iranian fingerprints were all over it (I'm sure you'll agree - they're smart enough to make it very hard to tell), the Trump administration would have done nothing? Or what do you think they would have done? I can tell you for sure that Iranian military bases and missile batteries would have been attacked, perhaps the supposed sites of their nuclear program. But the first task would be to neutralize all the missiles pointed at US bases, Israel and Saudi Arabia. Don't you think those ends would justify the risks in the eyes of the hawks in Trump's cabinet, MBS and Nutty-Yahoo?

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 4:06 utc | 290

Don Bacon,

Also see my comment at 282. I mentioned that there were no "low hanging fruit" for Trump to attack during his first four years in office. There haven't emerged any new "low hanging fruit" during that time for a Biden administration to attack. As you said, the US and Israel only pick on people they think can't or won't fight back. Iran doesn't qualify but they are being gradually weakened by brutal sanctions. So I do think if they had assassinated a detachment of high ranking US officials in Iraq, Trump would have no choice but to initiate bombing of Iranian sites, in Iran. Of course there's a reason that would never happen - The Iranians are too smart to do it.

But to my main point, do you agree that Biden doesn't have any looming "arab springs" or other low hanging fruit that would give credence to b and others' predictions that he will wage wars? Against whom? Trump didn't have many easy to pick on enemies to attack and neither will Biden. He'd need a second 9/11 or a VERY high profile Iranian military attack on American interests in the Middle East (or elsewhere - say a "suitcase nuke" at an American base in Germany or something). If something like that DOES happen, there's a 90% chance that it's a false flag and excuse for Biden to attack somebody, but we both agree, Iran is far from an ideal target.

So who does Biden bomb first? Where do they invade first?

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 4:15 utc | 291

@_K_C_ 293
the first task would be to neutralize all the missiles pointed at US bases, Israel and Saudi Arabia
I'm saying that Iran plus Hez out-gun the US in the Gulf/Israel area, task or no task, which is why Iran hasn't been attacked and won't be.
IOW I agree with you, the Iranians, like the Chinese and Russians are much smarter than their aggressors.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 4:15 utc | 292

What I will note is the swift manner in which the main stream media and the tech giants dismiss Trump's claims that there has been voting irregularities. They dismiss it out-of-hand as being blatant lies being presented without any evidence.

Hmmmm. I've heard that song before. Back when Trump insisted that he and his campaign was being spied upon by the FBI.

An obvious lie. An outrageous claim that was presented without any evidence.
Only, it turned out that this was absolutely, completely, and utterly true.

If there is massive voter fraud going on in this election then *of* *course* Trump is not going to have the evidence at his disposal to back up that allegation. After all, he is not a co-conspirator. He was not in the room when those frauds were planned, or executed.

Doesn't mean he is wrong. Doesn't mean his allegations can be dismissed out of hand, if only because the last time that happened it turned out that Trump was correct and his detractors were wrong.

Yet there is - once again - 100% unanimity across the board that what he is alleging is false, and can be immediately shoved down the memory hole.

That for me raises a very big red flag.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 8 2020 4:18 utc | 293

@ _K_C_ 294
Biden's task will be to keep the MIC, including munition plants, humming with contracts for military sales and other "national security" products wherever they can be found. He may have warmonger Michelle Flourney there to help him. The Dems are close to the Atlantic Council and NATO, so it will probably be in eastern Europe somewhere that would irritate Russia, like Georgia or Ukraine. Afghanistan keeps on giving. And if/when China attacks Taiwan, Biden will have that opportunity. The Indo/Pacific command is raring to go after "aggressive" China.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 4:27 utc | 294

caitlin johnstones article tonight was pretty good.. she left a link to a salon article from 2016 - april... that i am sharing here

America is no model state: U.S. elections rank worst among Western democracies

Posted by: james | Nov 8 2020 5:06 utc | 295

The link posted by Grieved can be accessed by copying and then going to duckducckgo and pasting it in. ( It is at Strategic Culture.) Certainly worth reading as Cooke always is. His penultimate paragraph ends in questions:

"...Is it time to adopt an entirely different strategy, rejecting traditional politics? And if so, can it be made to work when all the major institutions – from the politicians and courts, to the police, intelligence services and media – are firmly in the hands of the corporate enemy?..."

Perhaps we need not simply sit and hope. I will return to the first passage of T.S. Eliot's beginning quartet:

Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,
Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.
Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
Time past and time future
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 8 2020 5:18 utc | 296

As for foreign policy, it will not be softer yes, but it will also be less erratic and more responsible with the adults in the room in charge.

Posted by: Innocent Civilian | Nov 7 2020 16:27 utc | 94

The innocent of the world will be ever so grateful that they are being starved murdered and sanctioned to death by people who are a little less erratic and are "adults" in their actions. They will be so grateful, you will even be able to hear their heartfelt words from six feet under.

Posted by: Tom | Nov 8 2020 5:39 utc | 297

Sorry, here is the link Grieved posted @287 to the Jonathan Cooke article. I omitted the details in my post at 299.

The task before ‘Sleepy Joe’ is to put liberal America right back to sleep

It didn't connect for me, so I copied after blue lining it, and took it to duckduckgo to paste it there.

It was worth the effort. Thank you, Grieved.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 8 2020 5:41 utc | 298

I think you've got it backwards. The Iranian attacks on illegal American military bases in their backyard was a RESPONSE to the US assassination of one of their highest generals and a warning was phoned in well in advance. Why do you think that nobody was killed?
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 8 2020 3:48 utc | 286

That’s because you are making it up. I never said no one was killed. I was making exactly the same point. Yes, it was phoned in, because, Iran did not wish to kill multitude of empire lackeys, but put the gun to their collective head.

Anyway, I see that Don Bacon has ably answered your other points.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 5:54 utc | 299

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 8 2020 3:59 utc | 290
Yes Don. These are the same Israelis that post cardboard cut-outs as soldiers at the northern border.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 8 2020 5:58 utc | 300

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