Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 18, 2020

Open Thread 2020-91

News & views ...

Posted by b on November 18, 2020 at 18:12 UTC | Permalink

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Here's a version with the original English transcript:

Back from the dead: Hugo Chavez’s ‘scheme’ rigged US elections against Trump

The original is in a video on the GOP official Twitter account.

Posted by: vk | Nov 20 2020 1:39 utc | 101

ON gLOBAL spy network....

Denmark had wanted the Eurofighter or Saab for its airforce upgrade, how did it end up with that F35 dud. ?

As if we need more proof on [[[five eyes]]], aka [[[five liars]]] shenanigans, yet another expose' on fukus global eavesdropping on 'friend' and 'foe'...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37668/nsa-spied-on-denmark-as-it-chose-its-future-fighter-aircraft-report

PS
Whats a 'friend' for ?
Caitlin JOhnstons sez....

just a hostage.

YOu automatically qualify as 'foe' , if you refuse to be another fukus hostage.

heheheh


Posted by: denk | Nov 20 2020 1:50 utc | 102

Below is a Xinhuanet link to a speech by Xi and then some quotes from it

Keynote speech by Chinese President Xi Jinping at APEC CEO Dialogues

The quotes

"
Since the start of this year, facing the sudden onslaught of COVID-19, China has put people and life above everything else. The 1.4 billion Chinese people, united as one, have made a major strategic achievement in fighting the virus. We have endeavored to both contain the virus and speedily bring production and life back to normal, thus maintaining economic and social development. China’s economy resumed positive overall growth in the first three quarters this year. This hard-won achievement speaks volumes about the resilience and vitality of the Chinese economy. The fundamentals sustaining China’s steady and long-term economic growth remain unchanged. We have full confidence and ability to maintain stable economic performance and achieve the goals of finishing the building of a moderately prosperous society in all respects and eradicating poverty within the set time frame.

At its recently concluded Fifth Plenary Session of the 19th Central Committee, the Communist Party of China deliberated on and adopted the recommendations for formulating China’s 14th Five-Year Plan. According to the recommendations, China will complete building a moderately prosperous society in all respects within the set time frame. From next year on, China will embark on a new journey toward fully building a modern socialist country. We will develop a full understanding of the new development stage, and apply the new development philosophy. We will foster a new development paradigm with domestic circulation as the mainstay and domestic and international circulations reinforcing each other. The new development paradigm is a strategic decision we have made based on the current stage and conditions of development in China and with full consideration given to economic globalization and changes in the external environment.

....

Openness enables a country to move forward, while seclusion holds it back. In today’s world where economic globalization has become an irreversible trend, no country can develop itself by keeping its doors closed. China is already deeply integrated into the global economy and the international system. We will not reverse course or run against historical trend by “decoupling” or forming a small circle to keep others out. By fostering a new development paradigm, we are not pursuing a closed-door circulation, but open and mutually reinforcing domestic and international circulations.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20 2020 5:24 utc | 103

I just watched the Sidney Powell press conference, hoping to root for that team and cause.

But ugh. She threw Venezuela and Cuba under the bus, as associated to those dominion machines and their software. Didn’t mention Canada or Spain or Germany though.

It sounded like she was offering the Deep State a deal, more than anything else. Dirty lawyers.

Posted by: Featherless | Nov 20 2020 6:02 utc | 104

This is what KKKult leader Trump reduces bootlickers to:

giuliani-hair-dye-press-conference

He had dye coming out of his ears coming out of his, you know...

Trump is a menace to society, to democracy and to humanity.

Hospitals are going to be so overwhelmed with Covid patients they're going to start letting the older ones just die, like in Italy, and I believe some are already doing that. Meanwhile Trump the depraved, indifferent criminal is digging his heels into the floor of the Oval Office, refusing to let go of power, sending his crazy lawyer to peddle his election fraud conspiracy to any judge who will listen. After the hair dye spectacle, the next judge he encounters should immediately state: Throw this demented quack and his case out of my courtroom and fine him for bringing a frivolous case and attempting to waste the Court's time!

This charade has gone on long enough; evict the Oval Office s.o.b. squatter nowwwww!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 20 2020 6:19 utc | 105

Yeah, never mind arguments and evidence, let’s talk about his hair dye.

And did you look at his shoes ? So 1995, like OMG. *rolls eyes*

Posted by: Featherless | Nov 20 2020 8:01 utc | 106

@ Featherless | Nov 20 2020 6:02 utc | 103

But ugh. She threw Venezuela and Cuba under the bus, as associated to those dominion machines and their software. Didn’t mention Canada or Spain or Germany though.

Yes, I reacted to that as well. It seems like an excellent way to let the air out of the case. Which team is she on?

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 20 2020 8:29 utc | 107

NemesisCalling @ 76

Everything you say there is completely reasonable. Hard to disagree.

The problem is it would be very difficult to design the study that would tell us more. And entirely impossible to fund, conduct, or publish the study. The Danish study, with all its flaws, is the best we have ever had and the researchers are being treated as pariahs, their result treated as treason.

The desire to be secure and righteous in ignorance is just too strong.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 20 2020 13:03 utc | 108

"Britain has announced an extra £24.1 billion ($31.8 billion) in military spending, as part of the country’s biggest investment in defence since the cold war that ended 30 years ago in 1991."

always more for war

Posted by: arby | Nov 20 2020 13:05 utc | 109

A game developer's analysis of QAnon: Medium article
It is interesting but ultimately, wrong in the sense that QAnon is a designed game.
The methods detailed are far older: look no further than your local palm reader.
Methods to gull the unwary are ancient.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 20 2020 13:45 utc | 110

Here is Slate equating present divisiveness in the US with France in the Huguenot persecution era: source
Overall, wrong.
The author does mention regional rivalries in a single sentence, but categorizes the conflict as mostly religious.
Equally, the author describes the differing viewpoints in the US as between almost balanced groups. I consider this wrong as well; I see the present situation as a function of class: PMCs with the full power of society and the state vs. everyone else.
The difference?
A regional conflict at its worst yields civil war.
A class conflict at its worst yields revolution.
The one question I have been pondering is: Normally, the ruling class has its Praetorian Guards or some other form of kinetic defense.
Is this true for the PMCs today?
I do not believe the military or law enforcement rank and file share the PMCs views and goals. Are their economic interests sufficiently intertwined for them to overcome their class conflicts with the PMCs?

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 20 2020 13:52 utc | 111

test

Posted by: gm | Nov 20 2020 13:54 utc | 112

@Posted by: Featherless | Nov 20 2020 6:02 utc | 104, Norwegian | Nov 20 2020 8:29 utc | 107

Part of what S. Powell was saying about VZ-Dominion[Sequoia] black box voting connections was quoting from a 2006 letter by Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D. NY) to some US voting/election authority, voicing Maloney's concerns about the security/hazards of that company's e-voting equipment.

Part of it may be as Featherless suggested: Powell genuflecting and paying lip-service to the current official US foreign policy propaganda narrative line vis a vis Venezuela and Cuba.

She also said something interesting when a reporter asked her a question about the alleged US forces seizing purported vote processing servers in the Munich office of the company SCYTL (Sp?) reported a few days ago.

Sidney said her understanding was yes it had occurred, but then added the curious comment that she was not sure if “the good guys got it or the bad guys got it”.

Meaning maybe the raid was carried out by US elements (corrupt 3-letter agencies?) intending to suppress/destroy evidence stored on those servers?

Posted by: gm | Nov 20 2020 13:55 utc | 113

@Nemesiscalling #76
@oldhippie #108
Many N95 masks are primarily to protect against incoming - they have valves to let exhalations go freely.
However, it is not logical to say that masks of any kind, do nothing.
The fact is: any mask you wear - whether surgical, cloth, or even your hand with fingers clamped together - causes humidity and temperature to increase in the region enclosed.
This is 100% proof that any type of air obstruction from a mask will reduce droplets coming out of a person.
Do they 100% prevent sick people from infecting others? Of course not.
But they don't need to. Even a 10% reduction in infection spread due to droplet reduction has disproportionate impact.
Ditto for masks helping people avoid infection. They absolutely do not guarantee against infection, but again, even a 10% reduction in likelihood is significant.
The issue is not whether masks "work" or not - for various definitions of work.
The issue is if the harms from wearing masks: economic, medical, whatever - are significant.
Yes, certainly some people can't wear masks due to respiratory problems - but overall: both the cost and opportunity cost of mask wearing is minimal.
Why not do it?
Studies can and should be done, but ultimately they don't matter - right now - if cost and opportunity cost is minimal.
Even if benefit ultimately is minimal, masks are still worth wearing now.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 20 2020 14:16 utc | 114

@steven t johnson #99
I didn't believe your credibility could get any worse, but you have accomplished it.
Calling pretzelattack a Trump shill is so wrong as to have had me laughing for a good 2 minutes.
You really have no idea what you are doing or saying - just a reflex to call anyone who doesn't agree with you, names.
Thank you for providing levity with your absolutely breathtaking incompetence.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 20 2020 14:18 utc | 115

@111 c1ue

Slate is one of the great neoliberal outlets. It is an excessively slick site that makes my underpowered desktop weak in the knees. Not that I bother reading anything there, anyway. It is amalgamation of pure economic globocap with interventionist, neocon policy, entirely aimed at youth and young professionals.

It is a very disturbing site visit, full of "two minutes of hate" rhetoric aimed at deplorables.

...

@108 old hippie

Indeed. It seems that no one is willing to pry their mind from the scientific "certainty" that masks help.

What if this certainty is in fact a danger if it misleads? If it makes people feel comfortable around, say, those most vulnerable in elderly care homes?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 20 2020 14:20 utc | 116

Giuliani and Powell are both serious lawyers and Giuliani is a fairly significant public figure. I find it highly unlikely that either of them would be willing to totally destroy their public reputations and put themselves at risk of lawsuits by filing a completely baseless legal case and making such shocking accusations without at least some supporting evidence (perhaps not enough to win the case, but enough that the cases need to be taken seriously and not laughed out of court). The Duran did a video on this press conference and they seem to think that the Trump campaign is setting this up to be a long term legal battle that will dog Biden/Harris/DNC well into the new year and possibly destroy the creditability of any Biden/Harris administration even if the election results aren't thrown out. However, I should also point out this whole argument could easily be grabbed onto by the RNC in general as a weapon to beat the DNC over the head with as a payback for Russiagate. Interestingly, we should remember that Trump came to power promising better relations with Russia and Russiagate was used to push him to confront and sanction Russia over and over again. Now Powell and Giuliani accused Venezuela, Cuba & England of in effect trying to manipulate a US election will this be used to push a possible Biden/Harris administration to escalation against Venezuela & Cuba

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 20 2020 15:56 utc | 117

Chris Martenson's latest YT reports a new bombshell regarding 'Gain-of-function (GoF)' paymaster/EcoHealth Alliance President Peter Daszak having surreptiously organized and drafted, very early in first week of Feb 2020 (even before WHO had formally named the new disease COVID-19, and before general public announcements in US of the coronovirus epidemic then hitting China had been made), a letter to the The Lancet medical journal, signed by 27 prominent GoF researchers and virology "thought-leaders", claiming with certainty that the novel CV was a *totally naturally evolved* emerging new virus/disease.

https://youtu.be/0VymMqiyukk?t=699

These revelations is based upon communications obtained by a science watchdog group "US Right to Know" (USRTK) under an FOIA inquiry:

Nov 18, 2020 "US Right to Know" release

Emails obtained by U.S. Right to Know show that a statement in The Lancet authored by 27 prominent public health scientists condemning “conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin” was organized by employees of EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit group that has received millions of dollars of U.S. taxpayer funding to genetically manipulate coronaviruses with scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

The emails obtained via public records requests show that EcoHealth Alliance President Peter Daszak drafted the Lancet statement, and that he intended it to “not be identifiable as coming from any one organization or person” but rather to be seen as “simply a letter from leading scientists”. Daszak wrote that he wanted “to avoid the appearance of a political statement”.

The scientists’ letter appeared in The Lancet on February 18, just one week after the World Health Organization announced that the disease caused by the novel coronavirus would be named COVID-19.

This same USRTK group has been tenaciously bird-dogging a couple GoF scientists working with alleged bat and pangolin novel CV, to nail them down on producing important original source data to prove the veracity of primary viral RNA sequences they published/claimed in scientific journals Nature and PLOS Pathogens and submitted to the Genbank open source database.

Nature and PLoS Pathogens probe scientific veracity of key studies linking pangolin coronaviruses to origin of SARS-CoV-2

Is it just me, or is all this sh*t (renewed covid fear, election fraud/coup, Great Reset, GoF revelations) seems to be hitting the fan at the same time?

Posted by: gm | Nov 20 2020 16:00 utc | 118

RE: Posted by: gm | Nov 20 2020 13:55 utc | 113

Correction: SCYTL Office raided was in Frankfort (not Munich) according to reports.

Posted by: gm | Nov 20 2020 16:07 utc | 119

@NemesisCalling #111
You said:


Slate is one of the great neoliberal outlets.

I would term it technotopian, but of course there are overlaps with same parts of neoliberal views.
Nonetheless, there is value in understanding all points of view regardless of personal agreement or disagreement.
For one thing, such work greatly helps illuminate the biases which all demogogic thought is based on.
The same can be said for conservative and libertarian sites.
It is also of interest because the subject is religious thought - not something liberals have much direct experience with.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 20 2020 16:37 utc | 120

c1ue@115 still can't quote anything I wrote that shills for Biden or anyone else, but I've quoted pretzelattack lying about how Trump wasn't, unlike the Democrats, bankrupting the country with military spending. Lying for Trump to attack Democrats is Trump shilling. Case closed, pretzelattack and c1ue lost.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 20 2020 16:51 utc | 121

@106 Featherless

Fools on a fools' quest don't need to open their mouths for others to see they're up to no good. Sometimes life gets the last word exposing the level of jackassry therein.

And with Rudy's untimely drip mishap, life is saying: IT'S OVER.

Other not so evolved people need writing on the wall like Rudy's cheap shot at Cuba and Venezuela.

As long as you finally get it...or do you still have doubts? It wouldn't surprise me. (Sigh...🙄)

Posted by: Circe | Nov 20 2020 17:07 utc | 122

@120 c1ue

It is true that you must study your enemy and this means sometimes cloaking yourself or lurking in their midst to try and discover patterns of thought that permeate their warped worldviews.

I disagree that these sites do not cause harm, however, and that a subjective relativism should abound when dealing with worldviews.

Indeed, their mission at slate is not one of understanding, of reaching out. It is purely a technological powerhouse meant to bully.

Why do slick sights like slate, which offers little in meaty intellectual discourse when compared to no-frills sites like MoA or Unz, draw so many to its readership? Because flashy lights and high-production values are a tool for clouding minds: those that partake in wide-eyed amazement at the production believe that this equates to truth when it comes to worldview.

Look at the spectacle of modern films. It is the same phenomenon. Talk about dazzling with bullshit.

Make no mistake though. The fake display of neocon/neoliberalism playing off each other at slate represents something far more sinister than something to be tacitly condoned. It smells of the future.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 20 2020 17:17 utc | 123

Yes folks, Chavez and Fidel are the Kraken proving Trump was robbed. I kid you not....signed, rudy oozing charm.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 20 2020 17:27 utc | 124

@NemesisCalling #123
Harm is your view; my view is that truth gets discovered in the interplay between viewpoints.
Sometimes this interplay is harmonic, more often it is adversarial. The value of free speech is precisely to encourage this interplay.
The harms of Slate and other MSM isn't what those outlets say - it is what is not permitted to be said by anyone else.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 20 2020 21:06 utc | 125

@125 c1ue

True, but you may wake up one day to find sites like MoA, Unz, SST, zerohedge, etc. are offline while what is left is the fake interplay of ideas btw the neolibs and neocons on slate.

What would you call slate, then?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 21 2020 0:42 utc | 126

I haven't had time to read all the posts so perhaps someone has already replied?

@ Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 19 2020 13:16 utc | 50

If you look more carefully, you’ll see that the claim made by Kerstin Skovgaard et al is not what you represent. They are making a far narrower claim.

Further, the circumstances of the study make even that claim questionable.


They claim masks did not protect the ~6,000 wearers from covid infection (as fifty some from one group and sixty some from the other were infected).
They did not claim that masks don’t prevent the spread of covid to others. They did not even look at this.

Second, the study is based on self reporting data. IOW it is not a scientific study in a rigorous sense. Further,the prevalence of possible disease exposure was low and variable.

So not rigorous science. Only good for feeding covid hysteria.

Posted by: suzan | Nov 21 2020 2:40 utc | 127

6,000 ===> 3,000 mask wearers
total ~ 6,000 in study

Posted by: suzan | Nov 21 2020 2:43 utc | 128

Trump's legal team has multiple complaints. Most of these complaints involve isolated incidents and have very narrow implications. Trump's legal team has amassed witness testimony to some abuses, but it's unclear if that is extensive enough to call into question the legitimacy of the vote.

The most serious allegation appears to be the claim that Republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough to verify the authenticity of mail-in-ballots. Once accepted, there is no way to audit the verification of a mail-in ballot.

Powell adds a National Security dimension by raising the issue of ownership and control of voting machines and tabulators.

Trump and his legal team steadfastly ignore the widespread expectation that mail-in votes would be mostly for Biden. Guiliani, for example, says: when I went to bed on election day Trump was up by hundreds of thousands of votes in Pennsylvania. We have seen a similar denial of reality from Trump on other issues (such as, "if we test more, we'll just find more cases!" - as though the testing will generate cases instead of finding them).

It's difficult for me to imagine that Republican Legislatures in contested states will override the "will of the people" but few would've foreseen a Bush win in 2000 engineered by complaints over "hanging chads".

<> <> <> <> <>

If Trump does manage to win (with Deep State approval), it is a very bad omen. It would embolden him as much as his tenacity endears him to his supporters. And history shows us that Republicans - the Party most associated with USA patriotism - are much more likely to start major wars.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2020 3:05 utc | 129

Kind of off topic, but can someone clarify this for me, cause I’m kinda new at this :

Companies and Rich People and interest Groups pay Lobbyists to bribe Senators and Congressmen with that money, and whenever they vote on policy, they represent those interests.

Is it something like that ?

Posted by: Featherless | Nov 21 2020 4:56 utc | 130

All across the [[[five liars]]] land, whiteys are chanting....
'We'r all Uighurs now'

I heard the anglos are championing to ban the film MUlan....cuz part of the flim was film in Xinjiang, where 'CCP put millions of our moslem bro into gulags', accodring to the [[[five liars]]] bullhorn.
[sic]

Hard to believe, are these the same people who turned Fallujah to shards , the same people who've massacred 30M civilians, mostly moslems since ww2 alone?

Posted by: denk | Nov 21 2020 14:17 utc | 131

One of the top videos on Canada's news sites today: the UK and Canada announce the Canada-UK Trade Continuity Agreement. Here's the 11 min teleconference, featuring BoJo and Trudeau:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec_VzDHFmAk

Posted by: Quasi Retired anonym | Nov 21 2020 18:13 utc | 132

@NemesisCalling #126
The US and the western democracies don't, largely, explicitly ban.
Their strategy is the Bullhorn and the kazoo. MSM is the Bullhorn and everyone else has kazoos - the effect is that the majority of the population is too busy/lazy/dumb/ideological/whatever to go through the extra effort to find obscure sites and navigate unslick web interfaces.
China has shown that explicit control of the internet is possible - but that only works via a truly enormous monetary and other overhead cost.
The large social networks are also finding this out.

So my answer to your theoretical question is: if explicit banning occurs, there will be plenty of signs of that before it really gets going. This would include intel agencies or some other government agency hiring literally hundreds of thousands of people for this work.

The shadowbanning type stuff that we see today is actually more of an artifact than a goal: these companies were forced to create mechanisms to control porn, ponzi schemes and what not - and this mechanism was then hijacked by Cancel types to promote their ideological agenda.
The problem is that there is no right answer for a social media company with the cancel types, so it isn't going to progress much further.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 21 2020 18:31 utc | 133

@Featherless #130
What you write is correct in a sense, but incorrect in detail.
First of all, the "quid pro quo" mechanism isn't so straightforward as simple bribery.
It is more "attention buying": Senators and Representatives have limited time. A donor who kicks in tens of thousands or more gets face time and attention while the 99.9% of constituents get the leftovers.
Nor is this the only mechanism.
Among the others:
1) Selection bias: the Kochs pioneered this. Rather than use money to force someone to do something they don't want, use less money to identify and promote those which largely share the views you want to promote. This is also what happens with journalists.
2) Consultants/"free work": Writing and reading laws is really tedious and painful. Companies push consultants as helpers, if not actual bureau policy heads, that will do this work. This way the Senators and Representatives can spend more of their time glad handing donors and otherwise furthering their re-election chances.
3) Post-political jobs: Senators and Representatives who faithfully serve or accomplish really big things get jobs after they exit. Really cushy jobs.
4) "speaking engagements": The Clintons pioneered this. Rather than the somewhat diffuse and significantly time delayed aspects of post-political jobs, those who can will get $200,000 to $1M+ speaking engagements paid for by grateful companies.
5) PAC spending: giving money direct to a candidate has visibility and limits; spending money to attack opponents has far less transparency, accountability and limits. For 2020 - it seems the PAC spending was roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of all political "donations".

There are numerous other ways, but this gives an idea how American style corruption works.

Bribery is so 3rd world...

Not that it doesn't occur, but bribery in America is laughable compared to the amounts changing hands from the above "legit" means.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 21 2020 18:41 utc | 134

@ Suzan & c1ue

As a thought experiment attempt to devise a study that will address all your concerns. Rigorously. For starters all study participants should wear cameras 24/7 so we can monitor compliance. The researchers should view all of that video or we can’t be sure.

What happened was a good faith effort to answer an important question. Since the result is unwelcome the study is being picked to bits. The claims of the study are not just narrow, in the very text of the study the study is attacked by editorial committee.

So what is “the science”? Apparently whatever you wish it to be. Masks are built to standards and they meet those standards. There is no mask that filters virus. Never been attempted. We do not know how much this particular virus is transmitted by droplets and how much transmission is aerosol. We are whistling in the dark. The Danish study tried to shine a little light and no one will have it. Absolutely guaranteeing no further study will be done. Those who were born with a priori knowledge on all subjects have been validated and will rule.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 21 2020 18:46 utc | 135

@Featherless #130
I should also add that there is an increasing class aspect to American politics.
Thomas Friedman - one of the literally worst journalists I've ever seen in a major position, is married to a huge real estate/shopping mall heir. This moron is a major water carrier for the neoliberals and US warmongers at the New York Times.

John Kerry is married into the Heinz fortune.

Zbigniew Brzezinski's daughter is a highly paid commentator on MSNBC, a practice pioneered by a CNN's Christiane Amanpour - who is married to Robert Rubin's son, James. Robert Rubin: ex Citigroup head and US Treasury secretary - Citigroup under Rubin being distinguished because it had merged with Traveller's insurance even though it was literally illegal. The law against this was changed to fit Citigroup's desires.

I think this gives a pretty good idea how the US oligarchy works...

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 21 2020 18:49 utc | 136

@oldhippie #135
Actually, it is well documented that novel coronavirus primarily transmits via droplets.
We know this because there are almost zero cases of fomite transmission - catching it from a surface.
We also know that the majority of transmission occurs in close and long duration proximity situations: in people's houses/apartments, nursing homes, barracks etc. Even a cruise ship cabin situation isn't that bad - considering the people are otherwise much closer in proximity than normal life - particularly during eating.
In any case, the point is still the same: the masks represent very little cost or post opportunity cost. Even if they do nothing - but which we won't find out until later - they are still worth wearing now.
By all means, do the studies but it is foolish to predicate against mask wearing now.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 21 2020 18:57 utc | 137

Despite some here who are still hopeful, Pompeo's trip is considered a 'farewell' by insiders
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/9/394268/World/International/Pompeos-strange-farewell-tour,-full-of-symbolism-a.aspx

Posted by: Mina | Nov 21 2020 19:23 utc | 138

"- they are still worth wearing now"

Nope. Surgical masks are pretty much useless, you're being had.

Cowling et al. -2009
Simmerman et al. -2010
Canini et al. -2010
Aiello et al. -2020
Leung et al. -2020
and on and on and on .....

Posted by: Hmpf | Nov 21 2020 19:24 utc | 139

You can put lipstick on a pig, but...

By vetoing €1.8tn budget and comparing Brussels enslavement to life under communism, Poles could blow up the whole EU project

--//--

The dialectics of betrayal, explained:

See how Chinese dissidents suck their homeland’s blood like parasites

--//--

The death of Trump:

China remains top investment choice for foreign enterprises

--//--

Why a financial crisis won't happen in China:

G20: the debt solution

Much of the increase in debt among the so-called developing economies has been in China where state banks have expanded loans, while ‘shadow banking’ loans have increased and local governments have carried out increased property and infrastructure projects using land sales to fund them or borrowing.

Many ‘Western’ pundits reckon that, as a result, China is heading for a major debt default crisis that will seriously damage the Beijing government and the economy. But such predictions have been made for the last two decades since the minor ‘asset readjustment’ after 1998. Despite the increase in debt levels in China, such a crisis is unlikely.

First, China, unlike other large and small emerging economies with high debts, has a massive foreign exchange reserve of $3trn. Second, less than 10% of its debt is owed to foreigners, unlike countries like Turkey, South Africa and much of Latin America. Third, the Chinese economy is growing. It has recovered from the pandemic slump much quicker than the other G20 economies, which remain in a slump.

Moreover, if any banks or finance companies go bust (and some have), the state banking system and the state itself stands behind ready to pick up the bill or allow ‘restructuring’. And the Chinese state has the power to restructure the financial sector – as the recent blockage on the planned launch of Jack Ma’s ‘finbank’ shows. On any serious sign that the Chinese financial and property sector is getting too ‘big to fail’ , the government can and will act. There will be no financial meltdown.

Posted by: vk | Nov 21 2020 20:42 utc | 140

c1ue @ 137

No, we do not know that transmission by droplet predominates. Tell me how that might be known experimentally. We know that droplets are much mentioned. I would not like to be in the way of a sneeze just now. I am not encouraging anyone to stand in front of someone who sprays as they speak. The long duration proximity you mention is exactly the case where aerosol buildup would happen. But we just don’t know. Pretending we know what we do not is never helpful.

There are plenty of situations where my face will be masked. Starting with where it is required. For a very extended period public transportation around here did not require masks and I wore one anyway. Masking while out riding my bike - not a chance. While driving my car - not a chance. At home, no thank you. And may we please quit the rubbish about no harm. It absolutely harms children to not see faces, to not play. Dentists are seeing plenty of cases of infection and inflammation with those who must be masked for long shifts. Plenty of other problems. This is a huge experiment on a vast scale and to say it is nothing and all perfectly safe is baseless.

It is not good manners to pull out the heavy guns on social media. Going to do it anyway. I lost a close friend to suicide. He was already somewhat socially isolated, a bit of a loner. Last time we saw him alive he talked a lot about wanting, needing to see faces. RIP Marco.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 21 2020 22:11 utc | 141

@ Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 21 2020 18:46 utc | 135

The Danish study, based on self reporting with no context supplied of subjects’ circumstances, found no statistically significant difference between mask wearers and non-mask wearers regarding the infection rate with covid, yes, but the study did not address several salient points with implications for public health policy:

1) Did the mask wearers spread fewer virus aerosols than non-mask wearers?

2) Was the covid viral load exposure reduced for mask wearers compared to non-mask wearers, thus lessening the chance of an infection which could cause more severe disease?

3) What were the home and work circumstances of study subjects? Was there exposed to children under age 5? (Children under age 5, if they are infected, potentially carry 100 xs the viral load of people over age 5.) In other words, without understanding the circumstances of the subjects in term of exposure and risk, little can be deduced from such a study regard public heath policy.

I don’t want to argue with you old hippie. You’re on the mark wrt pointing out how usa elections are really accumulated local elections, all potentially corrupt. This covid thing sucks hugely. Who wants to live through a dystopian drama designed by idiots. Nevertheless, we need remain vigilant and sensitive to cause and result, in this case potential exposure to (lab escaped imo) virus and potentially passing it on to others. When the cost of wearing a mask is practically nothing, imo, this is a public heath policy no brainer. Make it fun and move on.

If you long for unmasked facial expressions, they will come soon enough.


Posted by: suzan | Nov 21 2020 23:54 utc | 142

15 Asia Pac countries have signed on the RCEP deal.

Its only logical that India choose to exclude itself, its the Washington anointed 'natural leader of Indo Pac'.
It doesnt belong !

But what the fuck is Oz doing in RCEP ?

Caitlin JOhnston

fukus has no friends, only hostages

MInd you,
Oz is that proverbial slave who's even haughtier than the master.

hehehhehe

Posted by: denk | Nov 22 2020 3:38 utc | 143

@oldhippie #141
Actually, there have been a lot of studies that looked at where people contracted novel coronavirus.
These studies provide more than sufficient background data to understand if droplet transmission is more likely the primary method than fomite or non-aerosol.
Among other things, people are not catching coronavirus from far distant transmitters.
This is replicated across contact tracing studies, superspreader studies, sampling of air and from surfaces etc.
If viral particle but not aerosol transmission is a thing, there would be far more cases where the infected were far away from any possible sources. Equally, superspreader events would see a far greater distance and density where people get infected - but every study shows close proximity is by far the largest factor.
Lastly, the Danish study: it is not particularly useful because Denmark has a Covid rate of 12 per 1000 over 34 weeks.
The 3 month study with 1500 per control group means less than 6 persons would be expected to get COVID. In actuality, the number is probably even lower since the biggest spikes were early on. Or put in other words: the sample populations are far too small to expect any realistic results.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2020 4:51 utc | 144

A dutch MSM journalist broke in into an ultra secured and secret European Union defense ministers videoconference.He found the supposedly secret acces code on a message from the dutch ministry of Defense.His arrival caused a lot of giggling by the virtual attendants,a lot of those ministers being females.The EU foreignaffairs minister Joseph Borrell immediately threatened the journo with police intervention,and the guy was not in to reporting anything,he just said he was going to leave it there.The videoconvention was annulated because of this security threat.(Imagine the russians listening in as well!).Not even his own media reported about it.

I wonder what was the purpose of this completely underreported deliberation.Maybe they were implementing Pompeo's directives?Anyways,the E3 have been posing preposterous demands already to Iran for renegociating the JCPOA,accusing Iran of illegally mounting up their stockpile of uranium.

https://fr.sputniknews.com/europe/202011211044807568-un-journaliste-neerlandais-pirate-une-visioconference-des-ministres-de-la-defense-de-lue--video

EU is a joke,but a dictator's one...

Posted by: willie | Nov 22 2020 8:33 utc | 145

Posted by: denk | Nov 21 2020 14:17 utc | 131 -- "Hard to believe, are these the same people who turned Fallujah to shards , the same people who've massacred 30M civilians, mostly moslems since ww2 alone?"

Yuppp, one and the same.

Example? those 25 Aussie special forces that killed 39 Afghan civvies in cold blood. Only thing 'special' about them is that they called that 'blooding', and they compete to see who is the first to kill, and they drop 'evidence' beside the corpses of their victims as 'proof' of taliban sympathisership. A sad, sad, sad repeat of the old Vietnam crimes committed 50 years before by bored, hot-blooded young men with more brawn than character ( and don't get me talking about their atrocious educayshun ).

And the common denominator of all this barbaric conduct? these young idiots were raised in the bastion of 'West values', that monster with Five Eyes.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 22 2020 8:46 utc | 146

c1ue thank you !

It’s nice to have a knowledgeable community, to learn from.

Posted by: Featherless | Nov 22 2020 8:52 utc | 147

Yesterday the news of the resignation of Dr. Malekzadeh, Deputy Minister of Research and Technology of the Iran Ministry of Health was published. This occurred just 1 day before a new round of Lock Downs start in Iran.
Previously, Dr. Ahmadinejad (ex-president), during an interview had mentioned that some executives in the Health Ministry of Iran have received money from WHO to test western medications on Iranians to allegedly fight Covid 19 virus.
While Iran is not able to import necessary medication under illegal sanction regime of US government, WHO operates 7 active collaborating centers in Iran, making Iran the most prominent subject of WHO studies in MENA region. Rumors about WHO activity to gather genetic information from different parts of Iran, disguised as medical effort to fight Covid 19, is circulating in the society.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 22 2020 12:00 utc | 148

kiwiklown 146

From the Korean war to Nam, Cambodia, Laos..
ex Yugo, Iraq, Afpak, Syria right to the current genocide in Yemen, the 'west' war crimes are legendary and well documented


for example, the collected reports from their own
MSM on the atrocities in Fallujah is enough to send
the Bush, Clinton, Blair, Howard to the gallow...
Except, who's gonna arrest these criminals ?

So we've this sickening situation today where these same mofo are holding court on the world stage, anoiting themselves the role of judge, prosecutor and excecutioner all in one.

Planting 'evidence' to frame the innocent is par for the course for [[[five liars]]].

Exhibit A
The 1965 genocide on the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia was a joint op by MI5/CIA, the former fabricated fake news about impending coup staged from Beijing, the latter planted 'evidence' in the form of 'China supplied arms cache'.
Almost three millions were slaughtered in that genocide of the century.

This Wuhan caper is but the latest and prolly their
vilest FF to frame the Chinese.

We'r just talking about some biggies here, the tip
of an iceberg..

Its the classic 'bandits crying robbery'.

Posted by: denk | Nov 22 2020 13:09 utc | 149

c1ue @ 144

There are plenty of studies also that in enclosed spaces as trains, buses, airplanes, offices it barely matters how far the infectee is sitting from the infecter. There remain very large numbers of infections that are entirely unaccounted, which works well with a guess that this virus is more or less ubiquitous. And all of these are just guesses following observations. There is no way to do the experiment. Last I heard any mention of fomites the verdict was they are basically not a factor. I recall staring at the page and wondering how anyone would know that. Around here the lockdown is purported to be fairly strict and we still touch keypads at the grocery store and push on door handles that are pawed every few seconds.

Observations are good things. Clinical observations by clinicians who know their work are good things. Experiments are good things. Judgment is a good thing. Certainty about complex novel situations will almost always be in error.

And your math is plain wrong, you don’t know how to calculate 2%. The numbers you start from show that you have not visited the article at the Annals.

As this stretches on those who jump to obey every piece of the narrative look more and more like participants in Stockholm Syndrome. Which means amongst other things there is very little point in having this little discussion.

Looking forward those who reflexively obey everything that smells of authority are going to be a distinct population from those of us who ever pause and think. Those who have given their brains entirely to authority will have no adaptive ability at all in novel situations. Big disadvantage in any survival situation. But authority will not try to kill you. You will want to kill me.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 22 2020 14:31 utc | 150

@oldhippie #150
So your assertion is that distance doesn't matter?
Wow, that's utterly unsupported by anything I've seen.
Droplet distance is well tested; aerosol distance is clearly much greater.
If aerosol dispersal was a thing - then the superspreader events that are well documented would all have been worse. I looked at cruise ships, choirs, customer service offices, etc etc.
In every single case, there is no evidence of aerosol transmission.
For a cruise ship - aerosol transmission would mean infections occurred randomly all over the ship. They did not - they were confined to specific corridors and ship's crew areas.
For the choirs - the people in the audience further back than the first 3 rows basically didn't get it.
For the offices - only part of the floor where the infections occurred, saw most of the infections. Not the floors above or below.

Perhaps the problem is that you conflate partial benefit vs. prevention. I have never said masks prevent anything. What I've said is that they likely reduce the rate of transmission - and even a small reduction or no reduction is more than sufficient reason to have people wear masks since the cost and harms associated are minimal.

As for the Danish study: the calculation is very simple.
Denmark has seen 12000 or so cases per 1 million, according to Worldmeter. The epidemic started in March - until today it is roughly 24 weeks.
The study was April through June = 12 weeks.
12000 cases per 1 million = 12 cases per 1000. Study size was 1500 per cohort - 1 for masks and 1 for no-masks.
The math is therefore 12*1.5*12/34=6.35 which I rounded down to 6.
If masks provide a 10% benefit - this would not be seen in such a study. It would be necessary to have at least 10 infected in a single cohort to have a chance of seeing it - and more like 100 as randomness and chaotic factors do exist.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2020 17:50 utc | 151

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