Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 05, 2020

Can't Count Votes? Just Draw Straws.

It seems that we all will have to fill up our popcorn supplies as the rather comical and disgraceful process of U.S. vote counting is likely to continue until maybe December 8, the safe harbor date on which the states will have to certify their electors.

The race is nowhere near where the Democrats and their supporting media had expected it to go. Just last week polls claimed that Biden would lead in Wisconsin by 17 percent. The current margin is a rather dubious 0.6 percent which upcoming recounts may well eliminate.

That the Democrats lose House seats, do not win the Senate and barely manage to drag their demented presidential candidate towards a stalemate tells a lot about their lack of sane policies. A donor party completely disinterested in what the people really want - medicare for all, no fracking etc. - will have little chance to survive a future onslaught of conservatives with a more competent figure head than Donald Trump.

There will be protests, probably violent ones, and more legal action from either side. I see no compromise possible that would satisfy both parties. I fear that, should Trump lose this election. Trumpism will only grow and make the U.S. ungovernable.

Maybe Trump and Biden could publicly draw straws to get over with it.

Posted by b on November 5, 2020 at 12:06 UTC | Permalink

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Circe @62

"Come on people, count those votes; every last one of them!"

Only count all LEGAL votes, of course.

If the integrity of the ballot cannot be safeguarded, then, what is the path to peaceful transfer of power?

It is either ballot or bayonet.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Nov 5 2020 17:30 utc | 101

_K_C_ @99

No doubt that Silicone Valley pulled out all the stops to kill Prop 22, but how difficult is it to see that whipping the wage slaves is bad even through a mass media smoke screen?

There is nothing "left" about California which is why I go with the "Dead Kennedys" assessment of that land of hypocrisy.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2020 17:33 utc | 102

@ oldhippie | Nov 5 2020 16:46 utc | 86... that is quite the story... thanks...

this is a post from paco on a previous thread that is worth repeating....

Paco | Nov 3 2020 21:38 utc | 79
"High time to send observers, otherwise the international community shall not recognize the legitimacy of the results.... A US Guaidó is needed, then the MSM can tell the world that over fifty countries call him president."

Posted by: james | Nov 5 2020 17:39 utc | 103

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2020 17:33 utc | 102

Americans (and many other peoples) are easily led. From the Prop 22 opposition Twitter account I am getting the impression that the proponents ran a very misleading ad campaign. I honestly had never even known of this until 15 minutes ago, so I'm just getting caught up. From the Twitter account I quoted earlier:

Gig Workers Are Voting No On Prop 22 @GigWorkersRise · Nov 4 We know Californians stand with us: A full 40% of those who cast their ballot for Prop. 22 did so believing they were giving drivers a living wage, misinfo peddled by gig cos. Drivers are still owed protections, wages, paid time off, & we’re going to make sure the cos provide it.

I've seen this play out on numerous other propositions over the years where the (likely) incessant advertising by billionaire corporations tricked people and totally drowned out any anti advertising. California may be worse than most places, but I saw it happen in Texas too under (slightly) different circumstances.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 17:41 utc | 104

@53 c1ue

Best post of the thread.

I live in a deep blue state and desperately want to see a comeuppance of the Dim establishment that cockblocked POTUS and enabled the worst partisan behavior, including letting cities burn and closing small biz after small biz w/ lockdowns.

We will see what the Senator from Kentucky does. The RINOs may, at the result of Trump's nationalism showing chinks in the armor, revert back to the old GOP that you correctly identify. They may throw the Dems a bone and ok an anemic stimulus to dress up bipartisanship and make it seem that a post-Trump America CAN WORK!

But like George Carlin said, watch out when that government comes to a bipartisan agreement. BOHICA!!!

If Biden emerges the victor, however, that national MSM coverage of covid will change gears to a more hopeful tone and they will let up on our necks with their boots, lifting school and business restrictions.

In Oregon, the governor had a press conference last week announcing just that, the lifting of school restrictions. It would have been far too suspicious to lift the restrictions only directly after a Biden-win. Therefore, to get her ducks-in-a-row and to avert that suspicion, she announced this a week before an election in which Biden was the clear, overwhelming favorite. Interesting, eh?

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Nov 5 2020 17:42 utc | 105

There is nothing "left" about California which is why I go with the "Dead Kennedys" assessment of that land of hypocrisy.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2020 17:33 utc | 102

Yep, demographics here is complicated, but it's always been a Republican state, and the current Dem party here is pretty much Republican light. What reforms we have managed came mostly from the initiative process and that is hit or miss as one can see this time. Pat Brown was an anomaly. The duopoly is under attack here, we mucked up their closed primary system, the know-nothing style of Republican politics is still popular but gets no traction in elections. The Silicon valley boys, who are just as bad, still have some credibility here, which is unfortunate.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 5 2020 17:43 utc | 106

Right wing politics in the US is almost undetectable by: bob sykes @ 9 <= you need a sense of smell the stench is unbearable.

"Maybe Trump and Biden could publicly draw straws to get over with it." Jiri @ 15.. <=Both candidates should withdraw, without a mandate they are helpless as governors to bring about the change Obama campaigned for, and Kennedy died for..

This is bullshit. by: Smith @ 17 <= complaint's about government operating in secret are off limits to the governed?

BOTH factions seek to exploit the central feature of USA election results .. Diebold?! by: Chevrus @ 22

A voting tie is a monumental {mind control} victory for the elites. Jinn @ 27.. I agree..

Doun South @ 28 There is no such thing as vote fraud, its called manipulation..
Vig @ 31, Political sex causes ballets to multiply.

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2020 17:45 utc | 107

Eoin W @32

Ta very much for the very needed chuckle! I doubt that Biden was really intended to be the Prez for longer than is absolutely necessary; Harris instead. But Biden would get his evidently decades long yearn: having the title Prez for however brief a moment. He will, should he win and it looks more likely (!?! Tara Reade, anyone?????? but then there was M. Lewinsky indicating that when it's a Blue Face, don't matter), ever after, semi-alive or dead, be called Prez Biden. (Isn't this his third or fourth effort? Boy, does that show something psychologically unhealthy.)

Why do Muricans not drop these titles (Prex, Vice Prez, Sec of this or that) once out of office??? To me it seems that they crave titles but don't have, ya know, "Sir, Lord, Earl, Lady, Prince etc...."

Posted by: Anne | Nov 5 2020 17:49 utc | 108

Well seeing as it doesn't make a difference who sits in the oval office and we're such a capitalistic country they need to do like the tv talent shows. Call in with your vote, every vote costs a buck, vote as much as you like. At the end a winner get elected, the money gets divided up between the population (as they're the ones that will carry the burden of the results) and everyone gets a check.

Posted by: Tobi | Nov 5 2020 17:50 utc | 109

The Russian disinformation campaign to divide Americans and sow chaos has infiltrated The Atlantic magazine.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 5 2020 17:50 utc | 110

Polling should have died in 2016. People seem to think polling will die after the 2020 repeat of 2016.
It won't.
Polling is too useful a tool for manipulating people - the herd effect.
People will be mimics (and herdable) until evolution or the Apocalypse carries the day, whichever comes first.
It will be about 5 minutes from now when we again hear the words, "polls show...".

Posted by: librul | Nov 5 2020 17:58 utc | 111

Nevada results are coming in and they're not looking good for Trump.

Okay, given that development, if Biden takes Nevada; this may be premature, but I have a strong gut feeling that Georgia might be kingmaker. That would mean that (my oh my, what beautiful irony!) Georgia would make Biden the 46th President of the United States. Astounding.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 5 2020 17:58 utc | 112

The results here in Oregon were the usual Oregon Odd--all the initiatives passed with strong margins with the increase in tobacco taxes--$2 for a pack--gaining over 80% approval. The balance of the State government remained unchanged. Our vote-by-mail system worked perfectly again.

Most views of the election from outside are very negative. This view from China is nuanced yet quite wise:

"Moreover, it must be said that part of Chinese society's views on the US election includes seeing its obvious drawbacks. Chinese people are aware of how it splits US society and how such division could endanger a big country with complex conditions like China. Americans play big in elections, but their cultural tradition has helped them contain the risk from worsening. However, it is hard to predict whether such restraint will function in the long run. This is part of many Chinese people's serious reflection of American-style elections."

This Russian artist's understanding and his approach will shock many yet awe a few like myself.

Iran's Khamenei tweeted this which was posted to Pepe Escobar's FB:

"What a spectacle! One says this is the most fraudulent election in US history. Who says that? The president who is currently in office. His rival says Trump intends to rig the election! This is how #USElections & US democracy are."

To which I commented: Yes, looking in from the outside allows one to see what those inside cannot, unless those inside make the effort to stand back and see what others either cannot or refuse to see. Plato and his cave comes to mind, but that lesson most Americans never learn because philosophy isn't taught, along with critical thinking.

Most here know my appraisal of the election, its outcome, and the direction and condition of the Outlaw US Empire, so I'll refrain from repeating myself. The current front page depiction at Sputnik for example displays 5 images and related articles about the ongoing anarchy. This article I find very disturbing, the assertion that armed feds can illegally enter any vote counting center to seek out alleged fraud, specifically in Pennsylvania.

Trump's behavior related to the basic aspect of the democratic process--voting--shows his utter contempt for that process and its system, which we must admit has become a main Republican Party trait since Reagan's Southern Strategy in 1980. How can a politician run on the platform to Make America Great Again when he attacks one of the basic things that made America great in the eyes of the world for decades? Trump's actions ought to lead to his defeat, yet so few are able to see that fact.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 17:59 utc | 113

@Posted by: jayc | Nov 5 2020 17:50 utc | 110

Thanks for link (Atlantic, yesterday), jayc !

"The party of national security, fiscal austerity, and personal responsibility supports a president who is in the pocket of the Russians"

"Russia, Russia, Russia"
Can we give this Russia-mania disease a name?
How about circe-somethingorother?

Posted by: librul | Nov 5 2020 18:07 utc | 114

Breaking: Pennsylvania Supreme Court Reportedly Rules Against Trump Campaign's Move to Allow Closer Scrutiny of Vote Counting

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 5 2020 18:08 utc | 115

@ jayc | Nov 5 2020 17:50 utc | 110... thanks.. i enjoyed that...

@ librul | Nov 5 2020 17:58 utc | 111... polls are very useful for massaging brains... it seems to work and will not be going out of style any time soon...

Posted by: james | Nov 5 2020 18:10 utc | 116

Zanon @63 Living in AZ and voting by mail (cannot drive and since my husband died no longer have a car): Last day to receive a mail in ballot (they have been common in AZ because, I imagine, many of us are not longer as young as once we were - permanent Snowbirds) Oct. 23. And (apparently) akin to PA if that mail in ballot is Dated by the PO on the 3rd, it can be delivered to the polling places by Friday....

Frankly, if, instead of the utterly idiotic and untenable so-called "Lesser Evil" voting, the vast majority of the electorate had written in or voted 3rd party, perhaps we might become a Real democracy. Instead the TDS Kool Aid suppers have simply pressed the Blue button rather than the Red. Meaning of course, that Nothing will change: We shall still bomb, destroy, devastate (and fund those activities by zionist plundered Palestine) other peoples, cultures, lives, homes in countries thousands of miles from these shores in order to maintain the grotesque financial returns to the MIC and their bureaucratic confreres; we shall continue to ignore the really existing socio-economic plight of most of the lower 50% of America (no matter their skin hue) while ensuring the ever increasing grasping of the upper 10%; we shall continue to preen, to ponce around the world stage proclaiming our beatific blessings on the planet - so long as all do as we insist.

The TPP and that other kindred agreement will be re-established - and if anyone thinks they are good for the ordinary bods, think again. Nor are they good for the signatory countries, only for the global plutocrats (who bring prominently to mind the global European royalty of the 19C - they had ZERO allegiance to their country, people (subjects, bien sur). Only to each other.

Posted by: Anne | Nov 5 2020 18:13 utc | 117


Mccarthyism 2.0? Philip Giraldi wrote the following some days ago:

Reich’s objective is not limited to punishing the Trump White House’s top officials who may have promoted policies considered anathema by the incoming Democratic administration. Reich tweeted “When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.” The Reich proposal would potentially mean punishing thousands of otherwise innocent individuals who had little influence over what happened during the past four years. “Enabled” covers a lot of ground, and is prone to devolve into something like a witch hunt. “McCarthyism” only much worse comes immediately to mind.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 5 2020 18:16 utc | 118

It really is comical being on the outside looking in for the past few years. At the end of the day this election (president) boiled down to a popularity contest or prom king vote. Even though there was record turnout for both, Trump managed to piss off enough white males (while he gained in other categories, per c1ue's post #53) to lose the election. If Trump was less of an asshole and quietly went about dismantling the deep state and draining the swamp, he would have won in a landslide despite fake opposition from the corporate oligarch owned media. It was his role as "heel" that did him in, whether he plays it intentionally or by nature.

In my own personal sphere, Trump's supporters were by far the most obnoxious people I've dealt with, emboldened by his own antics, of any past presidential administration (actually stretching back about two years before Obama left office). It really is a popularity contest and people really do get tired of assholes who can never admit they were wrong on some things while actually not being wrong on others and working quietly and diligently on them. This is not to say that the MSM wasn't responsible for almost all of it. To a guy like Trump there is no such thing as "bad publicity" and the corporate presstitute media was happy to give him a platform any time he wanted to rant about a meaningless issue. Every Tweet was analyzed and "fact checked" by CNN and MSNBC. Free publicity.

The Russiagate hoax and the kayfabe Ukraine impeachment only STRENGTHENED his re-election chances, perhaps as designed (if the theories of people like jackrabbit have merit) as did the totally fake Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. The Democrats and the media TRIED to give Trump the election (up until the Biden laptop scandal censorship) just like they did in 2016, but his act has worn thin, even abroad, and it cost him the election.

Most voting Americans either don't give a shit about policy or they have a one-dimensional, meme- or YouTub-based understanding of it, so they vote on party lines, peer pressure, spite or just because. Trump's loss (if it holds) has very little to do with policy and almost everything to do with personality.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 5 2020 18:16 utc | 119

Consortium News published this excellent article about how the Electoral College was decided upon at the Coup that brought us the 1787 Constitution. I'm sure many will find this excerpt amusing yet very perceptive:

"[George]Mason, a delegate from Virginia, shared Jefferson’s skepticism about regular Americans, saying it would be 'unnatural to refer the choice of a proper character for chief Magistrate to the people, as it would, to refer a trial of colours to a blind man. The extent of the Country renders it impossible that the people can have the requisite capacity to judge of the respective pretensions of the Candidates.'"

Those that read the lecture I linked to about China's System can now make a better comparison once they've read how and why the Electoral College system was formed.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 18:17 utc | 120

Very Inteeresting...Seems there is sort of a "Fishes and Loaves" election ballot Miracle for Biden going on in Pennsylvania right now.

Yesterday the Penn Vote commission said vote counting was 92% complete, but today same election officials announced it was only 88% complete. Reason? Another 750K ballots have just appeared.

Posted by: gm | Nov 5 2020 18:24 utc | 121

old hippie @86

Appalling - and everyone ought to be appalled at such treatment of an elderly woman - and for so minor an infraction. And the notion that one cannot speak one's mind to the FILTH (cops - sorry Brit Speak), that that is considered "illegal" is outrageous, obscene. THEY - the Filth, The Busies (as in Busybodies) etc...- Serve US, not the other way round.

That's the problem with them being armed.

Posted by: Anne | Nov 5 2020 18:27 utc | 122

Posted by: vig | Nov 5 2020 16:45 utc | 85

PMC = Professional Managerial Class = Fach-und Führungskräfte ("Petit Bourgoisie")

Posted by: v | Nov 5 2020 18:28 utc | 123

Public armwrestling match,
Jerry Springer fight,
Or, put them on Family Feud (live),
Dealer's choice... 😏

Posted by: Josh | Nov 5 2020 18:35 utc | 124

oldhippie - It is far from unknown for younger women to get pulled over for a supposedly busted tail light etc. by such police and be forced to perform sex acts.

Posted by: Waldorf | Nov 5 2020 18:35 utc | 125

So true Mr Gruff @ 93 (?) I was horrified (but unsurprised) when I heard this a.m. that the CA electorate had voted against the Uber/Lyft gig workers being covered for unemployment etc...oh dearie me, the bourgeois Californians (all "Progs" and "Woke" no doubt) couldn't allow that. (Just as they wouldn't, in the 1970s, allow for a property tax increase in order to help continue good education for, well, you know, the lesser folks.) I mean - those "Progs" might actually have to pay for a real taxi, or real taxi prices...Gor Blimey....

These arses really have no bloody idea - despite, I do not doubt, their expensive eds, their nice jobs (Zoom assisted at the mo), what it is like at the bottom of the ladder... Oh wait: isn't it all about equality of opportunity not equality of outcome???? We need a rev...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 5 2020 18:37 utc | 126

In Lavrov's interview with Kommersant which was mostly about the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, he was asked about the US Election and then about the dire state of relations with the EU. Lavrov reiterates Russia's position:

"I repeat once again that Russia will respect the choice of the American people, and that we are ready to establish constructive cooperation with the winner of the race for the White House, regardless of his party affiliation. However, considering the current circumstances, we realistically assess the prospects of bilateral cooperation and do not expect too much. Anyhow, let’s wait for the voting results. We don’t have long to wait."

Yes, the interview was done prior to the vote counting anarchy. IMO, we can substitute the Outlaw US Empire for the EU in Lavrov's answer about the current crisis in relations:

"Russia’s relations with the European Union are in crisis – and it is not our fault. The EU bureaucracy and individual member states are using any, even the most absurd, reasons to enhance something they call 'containment' of Russia.

"New sanctions, illegitimate from the international law perspective, are being imposed. Considering the number of sanctions imposed on our citizens under far-fetched pretexts, the EU is second only to the United States. The European media continue a broad anti-Russia campaign. In trade and economy, the Brussels bureaucracy is stepping up various protectionist policies, violating WTO rules and introducing its openly politicised rules of the game as they go.

"At the same time, we are being told that Russia can “earn” the right to have normal relations with the EU by changing its behaviour. This cynicism is absolutely off the scale."

Lavrov repeats it's up to the EU to alter its behavior:

"[O]ur European colleagues must clearly understand that any interaction is only possible on an honest and equal basis and respect for each other's interests. We will not allow any one-sided games here. There will be no unilateral goodwill gestures on our part. We still hope that a rational approach and common sense will prevail, both in Brussels and in member capitals. We are ready to wait for that as well."

IMO, that wait will last months.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 18:43 utc | 127

So many universes so little time. Actually the 'counting' has gone incredibly smoothly with not nearly the chaos that was predicted by many. The States that are not done counting are those everyone knew were the closest contests going in and that lawsuits were bound to be threatened and so the slow count is to make sure the laws are being followed closely. But it is remarkable the Trumpian hysteria, the cult that has been engendered by a diseased conman who believe every meme they see. Trump's chance of winning is 50%. That is a huge victory for Trump given the 5% chance he had going in. His base is unshakable and zealous and he'll carry his base onto Trump TV or whatever his next gig is if he loses. And if Biden wins? Fours years of partisan gridlocked nothing - which is like 20 in End Time Years. We're doomed either way. I'm thumbing through my Bunker catalog.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 5 2020 18:44 utc | 128

There is a thing I like in Trump. He's a nihilistic bully destroying the american empire. I wonder. How long will get to CIA kim him?

Posted by: Nick | Nov 5 2020 18:50 utc | 129

Its ridiculous how they cannot call the Alaska vote finished,

Right now:
Trump 62%
Biden 33%

Will it appear some new ballots in this typical republican state perhaps?

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 5 2020 18:57 utc | 130

Now Nevada won't complete vote counting until Friday or Saturday. That's nuts. Even Pennsylvania's total will come in sooner, except for 29,000 votes that loser Trump manbaby is legally challenging.

However, Georgia is still in play!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 5 2020 18:57 utc | 131

More and more evidence of voting fraud is piling up (barring outside observer from voting counting, 89% voter turn out, refusal of states to update their vote totals, discarded trump votes found in dumpsters, vote counts being stopped for hours at a time). Textbook example of votes being manipulated, they are counting some, stopping, estimating how many Biden votes need to manufactured to reach the desired total, stuffing the ballot boxs, then restarting. Will almost certainly go to the US Supreme Court (unless the supreme court declines to hear the cases, which I think is unlikely). Regardless of how this turns out I think some things can be agreed upon

1. Trump supporters are furious, far more angry then Gore supporters in 2000, they are mobilizing to defend Trump's political future and his legacy. If Trump loses, I suspect their first target will be the Republican establishment who they regard as having been half-hearted in defending Trump. They will probably succeed in making Trump-style populism the new ideology of the Republican Party (comparable to Goldwater's influence on the Republican Party of the 60s-80s)

2. Biden is a lame duck already, his political capital has been wholly spent and with a Republican senate and a Republican base baying for blood he won't be able pass anything of note that doesn't have bipartisan support (he'll probably stir up some new wars in the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Europe - always bipartisan support for MOAR war). We will probably stand down within 18 months (he'll try to last at least a full year). As a political figure he is tarnished beyond repair and his calls for "coming together" will mean nothing to the Trump supporters who are convinced he stole the election.

3. The Democrats are no longer the party of minorities as they originally assumed themselves to be. Though the majority of blacks and hispanics continue to support the Democratic party, Trump grew his support in both groups (around 20%, almost double what it was last election). "IF" the Republicans continue with a populist message they will be able to continue this growth, this is significant because the Democratic rainbow coalition strategy is based around getting 80%+ of the minority vote, this will force the Democrats to look at strategies at getting elected

4. For several decades now the US political system has been becoming more corrupt, undemocratic, unrepresentative and oligarchical. Regardless of outcome, this looks like a crossing of the Rubicon moment, where a huge segment of the population refuses to accept the legitimacy of an election. This doesn't mean a civil war is on the table now, but many people (on both sides) will adopted a turn-a-bout is fair play attitude - expect future elections to be even more disputed, courts to be more politicized and prosecutions to be more arbitrary.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 5 2020 19:03 utc | 132

@114 librul

There is no doubt Russia and Putin were hoping for Trump, despite Putin being mum on the subject. The Russian people were strongly for Trump on account of Biden and the Dims warmongering rhetoric with Russiagate.

Ironically, Russia peobably did aid the Trump campaign in some clandestine form or another. But not through facebook ads, lol.

The Dims are so angry with Russian nationalism under Putin whose steady hand displays all the world's tact and subtlety. The Dims are too dumb, as are all tyrannies.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 5 2020 19:06 utc | 133

Wait, what?!?

The democrats are bad because they want single payer health care and reduce fracking and transition to green energy using solar, wind, and storage.

And you are against that?

Posted by: Tom | Nov 5 2020 19:14 utc | 134

Well, Trump was sorta correct about no longer hearing about COVID come 4 November as the vote counting anarchy is the top news story. But that didn't mean the pandemic ceased. New Milestone of 100,000 infections in one day, 104,000 to be more exact, reported on 4 November. IMO, 200K/day will arrive before Thanksgiving. Oh, and did you see where in North Dakota a Republican candidate who died from COVID last month won his election!?

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 19:15 utc | 135

But I don't believe we are a nation of children and idiots. I believe the political class is completely corrupt and does not serve its citizens, but they are not us; they have been captured by the wealthy and the powerful. A few observations. I saw the long lines on Tuesday and how orderly and patient those in line were, socially distancing and wearing masks, and those were - in the main - Trump voters. This morning I took a little drive around my locale, and like magic all of the yard sign litter - like an aggressive fungus - was almost completely gone. Halle-fuckin-leujah! Seems that everyone here, as partisan as they may be, really want to put this season behind them.

I understand the desire by non-Americans and expats to see rioting, violence, and societal collapse here in the US. To be expected after decades of crimes against humanity that are globe-spanning. But, be very careful of what you wish for: that sort of breakdown can only result in a fascist totalitarian state, and if you think that the US can't bring more pain than has already been caused, you may find yourself very mistaken.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Nov 5 2020 17:12 utc | 96

Thanks for both the first hand report and the warning. Hopefully what you have witnessed was less anecdotal, more generalized. Regarding the warning I would replace all the misguided wishes you mentioned as the collateral of an actual expectation that a Trump administration would have spoilt the opportunity for the US Outlaw Empire to bring further global misery. Your point stands of a system breakdown potentially bringing a fascist totalitarian state...

As an external observer I am since recently inclined to recognize that a 2020 Biden election would fulfil the role the 2016 Trump election represented beyond the domestic purpose. Trump brings down Empire's Mask, beyond the ability of their true political representatives to sanitize it back globally. Trump being the industrial air-bag, and Biden eventually whizzing the Empire in its, hopefully "soft" but, inevitable crash-landing. Where Trump Would Not, Biden Can Not. Wishes..

In truth I have no idea, that's USAians mess to clean up, not mine.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 5 2020 19:26 utc | 136

76# Quasiment retired anonyme

I do not know anything more about Michael Bociurkiw but I recall an Canadian man of Ukranian origins working for the OSCE with this name to be reported in july 2014 as the first official to visit the MH-17 crash-site,when it was still under ukranian shelling.He stated that there was formol stench,and mainly asiatic bodies lying around,people lookin greenish,and wearing winter clothes.This would indicate that it was actually MH-370 that was shot down ,the plane that disappeared in the Indian Ocean some months before.Spoke he the truth,or was he trying to connect a false narrative loose-end to the downing of the airplane.

Posted by: willie | Nov 5 2020 19:39 utc | 137

Polling and the Gallup organization were already being used to influence American opinion and voting in 1939-40 by British intelligence. This is treated in Thomas Mahl's book "Dangerous Deception." This has been going on for a long time.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 5 2020 19:43 utc | 138

Sorry, the title of Mahl's book is "Desperate Deception".

Posted by: lysias | Nov 5 2020 19:45 utc | 139

From oldhippie | Nov 5 2020 13:43 utc | 25

Repeating a comment from yesterday. US does not have national elections. The US has 3141 County elections that all happen on the same day. Each County plays by own rules. The only reason for maintaining the arcane system is corruption. Jimmy Carter has said many times the Carter Center would never accept an invitation to monitor a US election because there are basically no rules. Only 3141 satrapies.

Absolutely spot on. Back in the day I worked many an election and from this rejected all the bullshit claims about Russians getting into voting machines. The only people cheating Americans are other Americans. Both parties are too vested into their particular methods of cheating to ever allow reforms needed for fast, efficient, and correct voting and tallies. Oh, BTW one of the distractions to keep Americans from understanding voting corruption is to blame the Russians for raping America's pure pristine and virginal electoral system.

Gallup Poll Shows 78% Of Democrats Mistakenly Believe Russia Changed Election Results

Posted by: Erelis | Nov 5 2020 19:47 utc | 140

Read Giraldi's essay, and he echoes what many of us have written about the Outlaw US Empire:

"What drives the empire’s engine is essentially bipartisan, even in its own way, apolitical, existing as it does as a form of leaderless shadow government that functions as a community-of-interest rather than a bureaucracy. It is inclusive and reflective of the real centers of power in the country, namely the national security state and Wall Street."

Which is to say that Imperial Policy isn't really controlled from the Oval Office, and to that I'll add much of domestic policy too. As Hudson has said numerous times, we have a centrally planned economy controlled by the FIRE sector that operates on the very short term which completely ignores any sort of long term planning, which is what's really required for an Industrial Capitalist Economy. In this podcast, Hudson admits what we're governed by what ought to be termed Financialized Fascism, the Constitution is broken beyond repair and only a Great Revolt can rewrite and rebuild the USA. But as myself and others note, to do that, citizen solidarity is a sine qua non, and this election proves that's far from happening. So, what might we expect between now and 2024? A continuance of Bad Governance at the federal level will be mirrored in many states and anarchy will escalate regardless Biden or Trump. Continued erosion of living standards. A heightened threat of war with either China, Russia or both, and or with Iran. The replacement of Biden with Harris, quite possibly by his own party via 25th Amendment. In other words, more stumbling down the paths begun by Reagan in 1980 and GHW Bush in 1990.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 19:57 utc | 141

If Trump loses the election and it's really looking that way, I suspect he will attempt to run again in 2024. This is going to make Nikki Haley and Republicans very angry, cause it will hurt her own ambitions and I don't believe she would be interested in VP, cause she resigned from the Trump Administration to distance herself from his self-destruction and I doubt she'd want to play second fiddle to another session of chaos.

Besides, by 2024, Trump may already have a criminal record.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 5 2020 20:10 utc | 142

@steven t johnson #75
You really are a sad human being.
1) Predictions: I never predicted a Trump landslide. I didn't even predict a Trump win.
What I said was that I believed the election would be close - in opposition to what the MSM polls said.
2) Minority votes for Trump: If you cannot understand what increased minority voting for Trump means, I can't help you. Your lack of contact with reality isn't my problem.
3) Democrats and deregulation: Who was President when telecoms and banks were deregulated - i.e. Glass Steagall? Clinton. Really, at least know the history of your own party.
4) Trump rallies/racism: Meh. The reality is that Trump is going to get more votes than Obama in 2012 and possibly even 2008. Either 10M racists turned 21 in the past 12 years or else (far more likely) you are full of crap.
5) No PMC: yes, your already non-existent credibility went negative with that statement.

In any case, you continue to amuse me with lack of facts, TDS and failure to even demonstrate a smidgen of contact with reality.

Have you 'fessed up yet to totally being wrong about Marshall? Probably not. Either you aren't educated or you are educated - but only in identitarianism as opposed to actual history.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 5 2020 20:19 utc | 143

"We are all Donald Trump!" Only in the US would the same people who claim some mysterious Deep State controls everything, who claim that it doesn't matter who lives in the White House, and who say that everything is rigged nonetheless suddenly rally around an ignorant jerk who can't stand them and who did not do one thing to actually help them in the last 4 years.

The other guy is a corpse, but at least we know that going in. And hey - the Deep State controls everything, it doesn't matter who lives in the White House, and everything is rigged anyway.

So here's some stuff:

Kenye West won about 60,000 votes. He has graciously conceded the race and is planning his 2024 run. Huzzah!

Turns out there IS an international observer group watching the US elections. The OSCE [Org for Security and Cooperation in Europe] has an observer mission to the US elections. The head of this group said that Trump is grossly abusing his office by calling for an end to the vote counting and for prematurely declaring his victory. "In a preliminary report published on Wednesday, the OSCE called Trump’s accusations of fraud 'baseless' and praised the 'enormous effort made by election workers,' despite what it called 'deliberate attempts by the incumbent president to weaken confidence in the election process.' ”

Now Trump says he is going to make legal challenges of voter fraud in ALL the states that were put in the win column for Biden. But not in the states that went for Trump, because obviously those weren't fraudulent votes. I bet previous candidates wish they had thought of that. For proof, he says, all you have to do is just check out the media - all the proof is right there being reported in real time. (He is now going to rely on the same media he has called enemies of the state and fake news to provide his proof that the election is being stolen. Okay.)

The fastest growing segment of Christianity around the world is Pentecostalism. This is the "charismatic movement", comprised of sects that believe in divine healing, speaking in tongues, and prophesying.

The fastest growing Christian church in the US specifically is the Mormon Church [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]. Of course, they allow you to be baptized into membership after you are dead (your living relatives just nominate you and you are added to the rolls posthumously), which may explain their continuing growth. The talk on this thread about dead people voting made me think of this. See, the US is so great and exceptional that even being DEAD is no barrier to your continuing success in life. The Mormons also believe in divine healing and the gift of prophesy, which has led to some really horrible, disturbing events. A great book about one such situation is Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven". And if you are into adventure or mountain climbing, you should read his "Into Thin Air". Great storytelling and very compelling.

All these miscellaneous, seemingly unrelated things may be an indicator of what some of our problems are and from whence they arise. If you don't know what I mean, maybe check out "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

Posted by: teri | Nov 5 2020 20:23 utc | 144

@vig #85
Sorry: PMC refers to the Professional, Managerial class.
It could be considered the Petit Bourgeoisie in the Marxist sense except these aren't shopkeepers. They're the middle managers, doctors, lawyers, MBAs, tenured professors, finance types and what not who are divorced from the actual hands-on labor.
They mostly work for large corporations and government/non-government institutions like state governments (at the higher levels), think tanks and nonprofits.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 5 2020 20:24 utc | 145

@TJ | Nov 5 2020 16:47 utc | 89

Now we have dead people voting Democrat, all I can do is laugh at this point.

The dead voting for the demented. Yes, that's how far it has gone.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 5 2020 20:27 utc | 146

@ karlof1 # 140

Yes, global interventionism has been a problem and supposedly is less-supported by younger citizens. But what difference does that make.

The Pentagon justifies the enormous annual expenditure on armaments and world-wide deployment because, as stated in its self-serving 2018 National Defense Strategy, “Long-term strategic competitions with China and Russia are the principal priorities for the department [of defense], and require both increased and sustained investment, because of the magnitude of the threats they pose to U.S. security and prosperity today, and the potential for those threats to increase in the future.”

Now it's obvious that neither Russia nor China threatens the United States. Russia has never invaded any country with regime change in mind, as the US has, and has mightily tried to be friendly. China is a long distance away and much weaker than the US.

The continental United States is surrounded by Canada and Mexico on two sides, friendly countries, and by fish on the other two sides. For sure there is absolutely no need for a half-million person standing army. The Founding Fathers got it right. The Constitution pointedly gives Congress the power to “maintain” a navy, but only to “raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years.”

The US is a non-democracy and so major issues like this are never shared with US citizens. There's a lot of money in the US security state, funds that are essential for the bought-and-paid-for politicians most of them with a life-time tenure due to gerrymandering and the profits of being a national politician.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 5 2020 20:32 utc | 147

Nemesiscalling @ 105
I agree with you re w a Biden win the democrats will gradually lessen Covid measures...I have been telling my husband that for weeks... they politicized the virus to hamper Trump... they didn't give a damn about the economy for main street or the effects on peoples emotional state..

Posted by: dp | Nov 5 2020 20:36 utc | 148

@vig #85
And to clarify further: there is a professor at Stanford University named Victor Davis Hanson. He is both a tenured professor in early Western history (Greek) and also a farmer - 4th or 5th generation in the San Joaquin valley in California.
What Hanson has talked about at length was that the urban elite - the people in the cities and along the East and West Coasts of America - have been enjoying a different reality than the rest of the country.
In particular, the opening up of the American economy to China, India and the rest of the world has created new markets for companies like Boeing, Facebook, GE and the like - which benefits these areas and demographics.
However, this same action has also exposed American farmers, manufacturers, non-MBA/PhD/Master's/etc to low priced labor and mercantilist economic policies in these other countries.
The example Hanson uses is his own farm. In the 1980s, the price for raisins was $1200/ton and the market was largely in Europe.
With the advent of the EU, Greek farmers got subsidies from the EU such that they took over the EU market for raisins. The price for raisins fell to $400/ton.
Hanson doesn't say that this could/should be prevented; what he says is that it is a travesty that there were no voices in the US at least pushing back against these obviously anti-competitive economic policies. The lack of such voices meant that the forces of globalism could run rampant and destroy entire sectors of the American economy at amazing speed. In particular, the US leadership = oligarchs plus PMC class chose to sell out the rest of the country in order to enrich itself.
This is 100% obvious to anyone who looks at the details of what has happened in the last 30+ years: China went from 6% of the US GDP in 1984 to near parity (or beyond) in purchasing power terms today.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 5 2020 20:37 utc | 149

#137 willie

He was there. Here`s an interview with him from 2014:

I only heard that specific theory recently and searched some of the CBC news coverage from the days after the crash. Revealing info includes flight number from tail of plane, how high the plane was flying, photos. Reminder that Malaysia is a Commonwealth nation.

Posted by: Quasi Retired anonym | Nov 5 2020 20:48 utc | 150

Social media's public support for the democrats and their supporters is clear election meddling, its time republicans - that get more and more censored by social media giants fight back against this bias.

Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey should be ARRESTED for censoring Trump’s tweets, former White House strategist Steve Bannon says

Trump will still be president until end of january, perhaps he will deal with this propaganda outlets by the repeal of 230

Section 230: What the law is and why Trump wants to repeal it

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 5 2020 20:52 utc | 151

karlof1 @ 140 But as myself and others note, to do that, citizen solidarity is a sine qua non, and this election proves that's far from happening. <= thanks for Giraldi quote <= citizen solidarity often arises in leaderless, spontaneous, idle-space environments; college campus panty raid=example; the campus becomes roar directed.

I do not know an American who is happy with the USA.. Its collective current potential to adequately perform is even worse, then its long prior history of dismal performances. The USA and those it govern are buried in the middle of seven privately owned layers, suggesting the USA is a mindless servant to the other seven layers. Yes the USA needs a modern engine that runs on a different fuel, but careful inspection of the nine layers shows the problem is not in the structure of the government, instead it is in the USE and management of the government. Seven of those nine layers use<=or direct the use of, the government, and every one of the seven users are private entities or made up of private entities each seeking to accomplish private interest. No revolution would produce a successful result ( a change favorable to the governed), if any of those seven layers were allowed to remain.

the layers in the power stack:
layer 1: global franchisor (Oligarch) sets rules of play; establishes goals local nation state franchisees must
actively seek in order to remain in control of the power.
Layer 2: local oligarch <= national (wall street beneficiaries who use their wealth to conform national outcome consistent with global powers).
Layer 3: copyright and patent monopolies represent 90% of the Assets of market based corporation balance s.
Layer 4: think tank and other private organizations and bureaucracies regulate, fund and direct programs.
public<= layer 5: the elected 527 person government regulate the members of the public
Layer 6: Intergovernmental Bureaucracies limit and direct elected power to global goals.
public<= layer 7: the 340,000,000 members of the highly public
layer 8: Keysian stimulus restrain economic system control
layer 9: the media which programs the environment variables and keeps the narrative on track (many techniques)

The private layers, 5 and 7, are contained within, and enveloped by, privately owned layers. Its the total environment that has brought the USA to "not relevant, cannot govern status". Once again I submit it is not material who is in charge at the USA.

Posted by: snake | Nov 5 2020 21:07 utc | 152

Some guy on Twitter claims to have found something weird - surging votes for Biden in the swing states yet no such surge in votes for the Democrats' senate candidate accompanying Biden on the ticket. "Down ticket votes" is what he calls it, normally a supposed link in preferences.

He gives Michigan as an example.

Trump: 2,637,173 votes
GOP Senator: 2,630,042 votes
difference: 7,131 votes

That's supposed to be a regular pattern, only a slight difference between the two. The picture with Biden is different...

Biden: 2,787,544 votes
Dem Senator: 2,718,451 votes
difference: 69,093 votes

A much larger difference. What do you make of this?

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Nov 5 2020 21:08 utc | 153

"Trumpism will only grow and make the U.S. ungovernable".

What a relief, we were worried that the Democrats and their sponsorship of BLM and Antifa might somehow make the country ungovernable.

Posted by: lah | Nov 5 2020 21:11 utc | 154

If you really hated the US, which candidate would you want to see in the Whitew House?

Posted by: passerby | Nov 5 2020 21:12 utc | 155

c1ue@142 reaffirms basic innumeracy, trying to compare percentages without looking at totals, which is incompetent math. Imagined points #2 and #4 are not. If deregulation were nothing but the decades old repeal of Glass-Steagall, rather than executive orders, decreasing funding for regulatory agencies and deliberately putting into place officials ideologically opposed to the very functions of their office, c1ue would have a point. But none of that is true and there goes point #3. Point #1 reduces to a whine that c1ue didn't personally predict a landslide (which may not even be true, c1ue is not an honest person,) while steadfastly ignoring the illogic of thinking that such enthusiasm will mean something politically after an election campaign. The idea that the current party system is going to be fixed by rah-rah rally goers. This is not a point, it's doubling down on grossly stupid. As is, by the way, whatever moronic conspiracy theory about Marshall c1ue is fixated on.

As to point #5 about the PMC? c1ue in another comments writes
"PMC refers to the Professional, Managerial class.
It could be considered the Petit Bourgeoisie in the Marxist sense except these aren't shopkeepers. They're the middle managers, doctors, lawyers, MBAs, tenured professors, finance types and what not who are divorced from the actual hands-on labor.
They mostly work for large corporations and government/non-government institutions like state governments (at the higher levels), think tanks and nonprofits."

The claim that doctors and lawyers mostly work for large corporations and government/non-government institutions is a barefaced lie, on a par with the crank history of judicial review. The idea that MBAs are a class who don't include top management is remarkably stupid even for c1ue. Bankers are "finance" types, as well as stockbrokers but they are not socially connected to "tenured" professors. Actually tenured professors are only in there to try to pretend that these are all lefty university types. University types most certainly include the likes of Victor Davis Hanson, who is not a lefty, but an astonishingly reactionary piece of trash whose judgment on everything, including Greek history is suspect. I didn't know he was a property owner, but being a genuine petite bourgeois certainly explains a lot about him. Professional managerial types by the way also include clergymen, after life salesmen in business for themselves, by the way. The dishonorable implication is that something called the PMC is the vessels of wokeness, the true threat to humanity, but they are not good honest hard-working folk, etc. Given c1ue's track, the claim will no doubt be that no, there isn't really an invidious hint that PMCs are snobby elitists...but that is only meaning. PMC is a reactionary propaganda construct, a parody of pseudo-ideas like "totalitarianism," mindless jargon posing as thought.

A sad human being? Quit looking in the mirror, c1ue.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 5 2020 21:17 utc | 156

Counting is still frozen, people.

What is going on?

Posted by: Smith | Nov 5 2020 21:25 utc | 157

The rational way of doing things follows the maxim: haste makes waste. Every Spring Pennsylvania Department of Transportation crews are busy marking stretches of divided highways where a line or two will be repaved. Then the work on those stretches is scheduled to last till late fall, giving the crews steady work when they are not busy with snow removal.

Similarly, a rational method for vote counting would schedule it so the results are ready when the elected office holders should be introduced to their offices. In case of President, that means before January.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2020 21:38 utc | 158

"Trumpism will only grow and make the U.S. ungovernable."

Not sure that's true, though widely bruited at the moment. Lepen's Ralliement National in France shut down after their failure in 2017, though widely predicted to make a great come-back. and AfD in Germany settled down on 15%, instead of threatening the state. The balloon can burst.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 5 2020 21:38 utc | 159

@Smith | Nov 5 2020 21:25 utc | 156

Counting is still frozen, people.

What is going on?

They are waiting for the correct result to appear, then counting will resume.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 5 2020 21:39 utc | 160

I forgot to mention that counting the remaining votes in PA works like a clockwork. With each 1% counted (ca. 70k), Trumps lead decreases by 0.5%, not 8% votes left, the remaining lead is under 2%. Will the strategic bombers that were recently deployed to Russian borders be sent onto Philadelphia?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2020 21:42 utc | 161

scotch bingeington@152 has a question about the difference in the votes for Biden and down ballot Democrats. What I make of it is, Trump has no real program but racism and the promise to use government to hurt the woke, and forget about making this a better country but trashing government instead. Thus I see this as people repudiating Trump personally, as a villain whose racism either repels them or they don't see it as compensating for his being a grossly incompetent pathological liar. And the difference in the senatorial races is probably due to not nearly so many people wanting to vote against the incumbent.

But the guy probably thinks this is some sort of evidence of villainy.

So look at the figures. Don't just look at the differences highlighted but look at the totals. There are listed about 2.64 million votes for Trump and about 2.79 million votes for Biden, for a total of about 5.43 million votes. The Republic (NOT A DEMOCRACY!) senator is listed at about 2.63 million votes and the Democrat is listed for about 2.72 million votes, for a total of about 5.35 million votes. That's a difference of about 80 000 votes, even larger than the 69 000 the twitter genius finds so sinister. But the thing is, is this abnormally large for a drop in down ballot races? Until that question is answered with some numbers, this means nothing sinister.

But if you are a die hard reactionary, you can read these same figures as proving there is a lot of support for the Republic (NOT A DEMOCRACY!) Party that is immune to distaste for Trump, for reactionary principles with more manners.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 5 2020 21:44 utc | 162

Don Bacon @146--

During the 1930s which was arguably the USA's more democratic period, the people fought for and enacted a series of Neutrality Acts aimed to limit what the Merchants of Death as they were called then could get the nation involved in. 1947's National Security Act was made to ensure such citizen actions would never again arise, which made the necessity of an Eternal, never to be killed or defeated--perpetual--Enemy. From my own experience as both teacher and student, very little emphasis is placed on the 1930s Pacifist Movement or the fruits of their labors--Acts FDR refused to veto for two reasons: they were very popular nationwide and would likely be overridden by Congress. Much the same treatment is given to the 1960s Anti-War Movement. Indeed, the second installment of the two-semester teaching of US History would often end with JFK's assassination because time would run out and the remaining years events never covered!!! I campaigned for a 3 semester US History core at minimum but never got any traction, and so that deplorable situation remains--even at the college level undergrad inrto US History core. Even History Majors find it hard to learn what they must to properly teach the core!! The result is an essentially illiterate citizenry when it comes to knowing their own national history making them easy marks for the Divide and Rule Class.

Snake @151--

I do not know an American who is happy with the USA.

That's the central premise of my book, Critical Mass, I'm in the process of writing. One section votes R, the other votes D, yet neither are going to provide a solution and that fundamental fact for some reason is oblivious to those voting R & D. I might fail but my aim is to knock those collective heads together so they can see the error of their ways and join forces to defeat those that oppress them both. In 1992, William Greider tried his best with his Who Will Tell the People: The Betrayal of American Democracy, but far too few heeded his warning. In many respects, it's 2016 again, and we have 4 years to overturn the table-again.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 21:47 utc | 163

steven t johnson wrote:

That's a difference of about 80 000 votes, even larger than the 69 000 the twitter genius finds so sinister. But the thing is, is this abnormally large for a drop in down ballot races?

Yes I think it is abnormally large.
What I think it means is that 80,000 showed up to vote either for or against Trump and did not care to vote the rest of the ticket.

If you compare the vote totals to 2016 I think you may find goof evidence to conclude that a lot more than 80k showed up purely to vote for or against trump. Most of those apparently did bother with other races on the ticket.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 5 2020 21:57 utc | 164

Jiri @ 15:

Arm-wrestling (or hand-wrestling) is an acceptable way of solving disputes in New Zealand. Since New Zealand is the place where some of the global elite are building underground bunkers, perhaps the New Zealand conflict resolution method will be the new trend.

Arm-wrestle settles NZ dispute

Two New Zealand companies have resolved a long-standing dispute by agreeing to an unusual form of out-of-court settlement - an arm-wrestling match.

The two firms - telecommunications companies Teamtalk Ltd and MCS Digital Ltd - could not decide which of them should have access to a sought-after mobile radio network.

Industry regulators had already become involved in the dispute, and the companies appeared to be heading for an expensive court battle.

But then the two chief executives came up with the idea of holding a best-of-three arm-wrestling competition, with the radio network as the prize.

Allan Cosford, the managing director of MCS Digital, proved the stronger man on the day, overpowering David Ware, Team Talk's chief executive.

But even the defeated man was feeling positive after the event.

"I will be abiding by the decision. Sure, losing hurts - but not nearly as much as paying lawyers' bills," Mr Ware told Reuters news agency.

Of course should one of the US presidential contenders win the best-of-three bouts, er, hands down, the loser might contest the results of the wrestling in court.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 5 2020 22:00 utc | 165

Thanks teri for mentioning that Sagan book, very much looking forward to reading it!

Thanks for the sensible statements vinnieoh. Thanks for sharing the anecdote oldhippie.

The rest is pretty much pure FUD.

Posted by: Rae | Nov 5 2020 22:06 utc | 166

Jackrabbit | Nov 5 2020 15:29 utc | 59:

I'm not so sure if Hillary's ego would allow Harris remain as President for long. Pull an LBJ and blame it on Iran?

Now we have dead people voting Democrat, all I can do is laugh at this point.

TJ | Nov 5 2020 16:47 utc | 89:

Old news to those that been paying attention. I'm glad it's starting to get some coverage.

Posted by: Ian2 | Nov 5 2020 22:09 utc | 167

Re: discrepancy between numbers of votes for president and for senate.

Lots of people only vote for the president in a presidential election year and don't bother with down-ticket candidates. And lots of people only bother to vote at all when it is a presidential election year and don't bother voting during mid-term years. Also, US senators serve for 6 years and the schedule is staggered so that only about a third of the Senate is up for reelection during any given election. Neither of Maryland's Senators was up for reelection this year, so there was no section on the ballot for US Senator in our state.

Posted by: teri | Nov 5 2020 22:11 utc | 168

More censorship

Stop ‘Stop the Steal’? Facebook repeatedly boots pro-Trump election integrity group for real-world organizing amid 'tension'

Claiming fraud in Iran, Russia, Syria and so on is fine however for Facebook..

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 5 2020 22:19 utc | 169

154:If you really hated the US, which candidate would you want to see in the Whitew House?


Posted by: blueswede | Nov 5 2020 22:28 utc | 170

While not quite as funny & entertaining as George Carlin, the latest two First, Second, Keiser Report's both contain some uncomfortable truths, particularly the second that lends great credence to Hudson's description of the Outlaw US Empire as Financialized Fascism. (Someone apparently thinks that FUD yet wants to read Sagan's book.) Another confirmation of what the Keiser's report is today FB blocked my several attempts to place a link to Giraldi's essay at Strategic Culture thus confirming--again--the existence of censorship algorithms. If you click the links, I suggest just watching the first halves of each program which will only take about 25 minutes of your valuable time.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 22:30 utc | 171

Arm wrestling does not strike me as a method of electing someone. In Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth there were plentiful elective offices, including deputies to Diet (Sejm), and if I recall correctly: there were three rules: one sabre - one vote (no right to bear a sword, no vote), consensus -- all voters have to agree, and the last one: intimidation allowed. That said, the use of firearms would be dishonorable.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2020 22:38 utc | 172

If the dead can vote then the Dead Can Dance

Chill out USAi - some music for your soul.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 23:00 utc | 173

It is looking grim for Trump. There is a good chance that Biden will take, PA, GA, NV. He is already projected by most in Arizona. Trump is going to lose the popular vote by a million votes more than he lost it by in '16. It is possible the Dems pick up a senate seat in GA in addition to the seat they picked up in CO. They retained control of the house. For some reason, there are people on the site who seem to think this was a good showing for the Republicans because they didn't do quite as badly as the polls predicted.

Posted by: David | Nov 5 2020 23:05 utc | 174

The 1876 Presidential election was so completely corrupted by Democratic Party cheating across the South that the Electoral College was defeated. No normal ballot was possible in the Electoral College, because there were competing slates of Electors.

Instead of picking the President by a vote of the House, as provided in the Constitution for such instances, Congress created a Commission. The Commission picked the President, by a vote of 8-7.

That is the only time a Commission has been done.

It is also the only time an election had been so comprehensively corrupted across so many states.

The (Northern) Republicans got their candidate elected, which was likely the honest outcome before all the cheating, as near as we can really know.

However, to get that they had to give up Reconstruction, and permit the start of Jim Crow across the South.

It was a high price to pay. It was paid. Who suffered? Black people were thrown to the wolves.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Nov 5 2020 23:05 utc | 175

People seem to think that the Trump team is looking to win on these lawsuits. They know they aren't going to win. They're doing it to introduce doubt in the election process. It's an awful abuse of the judicial system and does nothing to serve their goals, so I have no idea what they're hoping to get out of this other than a fucking civil war.

Posted by: Nick | Nov 5 2020 23:06 utc | 176

Dead can dance and vote and sing to the heavens: Lament for the USAi

This piece is the background music in the poverty scene in the movie Baraka. Stay strong USA people and overturn this insanity.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 5 2020 23:12 utc | 177

@ karlof1 #162
At least you (apparently) got to cover JFK's assassination which ended his 1963 peace offensive toward the Soviet Union. No president wants an encore concerning Russia!. . . Although Trump came close, saying nice things about Russia which got him impeached (not shot).
I see China shaping up as the next major bogeyman, and no president better shirk his/her duties to be nasty to the dragon.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 5 2020 23:30 utc | 178

The amount of cerebral activity wasted here is, well, wasted...It's a class-war people, recognize it for such. The U.S. needs to fall down among the weeds, and fertilize what's coming...The libertarian impulse must be squashed until it is unrecognizable!!

Equality, Fraternity, and Liberty in that order, my friends. All else is sickness in the mind.

Posted by: donten | Nov 5 2020 23:33 utc | 179

People seem to think that the Trump team is looking to win on these lawsuits. They know they aren't going to win. They're doing it to introduce doubt in the election process. It's an awful abuse of the judicial system and does nothing to serve their goals, so I have no idea what they're hoping to get out of this other than a fucking civil war.

Posted by: Nick | Nov 5 2020 23:06 utc | 175

Indeed, the outcome is dividing society into groups that mutually loath each other and collect slights and injustices, both real and perceived, so elections become cycles of revenge. What is missing are paramilitary groups trained abroad or financed by competing business tycoons. Perhaps it is an early stage of the process, the drift of Roman Republic toward Empire through a sequence of dictatorships, civil wars and temporary power splitting like Triumvirates took about 100 years.

On the "plus side", this serves interests of plutocrats because no one bothers with reforms that would reduce their profits.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 5 2020 23:35 utc | 180

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 5 2020 15:29 utc | 59 My prediction failed

Credits to Jackrabbit for admitting his theory failed to make an accurate prediction.

Not that he'll change his theory at all, of course. LOL And it remains a theory, nothing more. A credible and plausible theory - but nothing more. Even if Trump ekes out a win, it still doesn't support the theory.

My prediction of either a close Trump win or a close or landslide Biden win appears to have been accurate. Not that I claim any theory to support the prediction in the first place. I just assumed nothing would go as planned for either side - which appears to have been the case in spades.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 23:41 utc | 181

"The race is nowhere near where the Democrats and their supporting media had expected it to go.

That the Democrats lose House seats, do not win the Senate and barely manage to drag their demented presidential candidate towards a stalemate tells a lot about their lack of sane policies."

Posted by b on November 5, 2020 at 12:06 UTC

Who gives a flying fuck about the race not going where the Dems expected !
They seem to be winning, so why do you give a shit?

Your "Supporting Media" comment is rubbish- What about your supporting media here? Nearly all american Media is propaganda for profit info-tainment. US media is paid advertising supporting Lies of the Empire.

"demented presidential candidate" - HA and Trump isn't a demented narcissist liar, and complete scum. What sort of tabloid horseshit are you spewing?

Posted by: CitizenX | Nov 5 2020 23:42 utc | 182

"My prediction of either a close Trump win or a close or landslide Biden win appears to have been accurate."

Sounds like a prediction of "Anything other than a Trump landslide."

Posted by: spudski | Nov 5 2020 23:45 utc | 183

Posted by: spudski | Nov 5 2020 23:45 utc | 182 Sounds like a prediction of "Anything other than a Trump landslide."

That's exactly what it was. Jackrabbit insisted that the Deep State had orchestrated a landslide" win for Trump. I told him he had zero evidence of that because he doesn't have access to the Deep State or any actual evidence of Deep State actions. He insisted on a landslide, only doing a little waffling when b pointed out that Clinton had reason to want Biden to win so Harris would replace him and give Clinton a job; so Jackrabbit had to admit that the Deep State likes Clinton, so maybe Biden would win. But he still stuck to his landslide Trump victory.

C’est la vie!

At this junction, I just go up and haven't checked what's going on, but I'm inclined to call the election for Biden. Maybe I'll revert to being agnostic after I check what's happening (if anything is happening.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 23:56 utc | 184

RSH, thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 6 2020 0:02 utc | 185

Confidence In Our Electoral Process
- We have met the enemy and it is us


The blather was everywhere, all the time, not just for months, but years:

Examples a plenty,

"Fiona Hill warns of Russia undermining confidence in U.S. democracy before elections"
October 27, 2020

‘Chaos Is the Point’: Russian disinfo undermining confidence in democracy
NED, National Endowment for Democracy January 10, 2020

Russia remains more potent threat of election interference despite administration focus on Iran
WaPo Oct. 22, 2020

"The FBI said late Wednesday that Russia and Iran have taken action to undermine US confidence in the upcoming elections."
CNet Oct. 22, 2020


We have met the enemy but will we learn?
And will the Deep State pundits ever shut up?
You already know the answer.


While searching out the above quotes I came across an amusing quote
from a CIA funded Russian dissident
now living in New York. What do you suppose the CIA would have
their paid mouthpiece say?

"Russian democracy is a farce."
Garry Kasparov 7/5/2020

(made me laugh, how about you?)

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2020 0:07 utc | 186

I mistakenly posted this on previous thread. So here goes.

Things are looking really bad for Trump, and he's going to speak at 6:30 p.m. Now you know he's gonna rant and rave and spew bullshit and behave like he's fit to be tied trying to steal the election and Biden's thunder. I'm hearing he's apoplectic.

Meanwhile, I'm bursting at the seams to scream out: IT'S OVER YOU EVIL MOTHERF**KER...IT'S OVER!


So, I was right! The bastard is blathering multiple lies and incitement as I write this. He's trying to STEAL the election. His Presidency ends in total disgrace!

Please, please call the men in the white coats and take that delusional moronic lunatic out of the Press Room in a straight jacket.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6 2020 0:08 utc | 187

@Posted by: Circe | Nov 6 2020 0:08 utc | 186

Maybe they can put Trump in a room next to Hillary. Wouldn't you luv to be a fly on the wall listening to those two screech at each other.😁🤩😂🤣

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2020 0:13 utc | 188

Trumps recent speech tonight was on par with the best of Goebbels or A.H's insanity.

b may wish to check his lack of condemnation against Trump. Both parties suck, but you seem to be sucking on GOP Trump love. WTF on that?

Posted by: CitizenX | Nov 6 2020 0:16 utc | 189

From FiveThirtyEight:

Dan Hopkins Nov. 5, 8:14 am
What We Know About The Remaining Vote In Pennsylvania

With 20 Electoral College votes, Pennsylvania is the biggest prize left on the table, and we’re following it closely as it continues to count votes over the next 24-48 hours (or so).

Trump and Biden are now separated by about 164,000 votes, with Trump leading. But the more than 460,000 outstanding mail ballots left to be counted are likely to lean heavily Democratic. And at least 116,000 of them come from Philadelphia, a very Democratic-leaning city where mail ballots so far have gone to Biden by more than a 9 to 1 ratio. If Biden wins those outstanding mail ballots by something approaching the margins he has been winning mail ballots statewide, those mail ballots should give him the lead statewide.

Still, there’s some uncertainty here, with different sources showing different numbers of outstanding mail ballots. The New York Times’ dashboard, for instance, may overestimate the outstanding votes in places like Philadelphia; its current estimate implies turnout for the two major parties in excess of 800,000, a sizable increase over the roughly 693,000 votes cast for major parties in 2016 at a time when lots of college students aren’t in town due to remote learning. That discrepancy could reflect a lag in adjusting for mail ballots that have already been counted. Or it could reflect provisional ballots — or the fact that mail ballots can arrive after Election Day, too.

And it’s hard to know how many total provisional ballots are out or how they are likely to break given all the voting by mail, although Biden won the large number of provisional ballots in York County, a GOP stronghold. The upshot: The votes are certainly out there for Biden to take the lead, and that’s my best guest, but there’s no guarantee. Caution is the word of the day.

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 5, 8:44 am
After saying earlier this AM there are fewer than 25K absentee ballots left, Georgia's secretary of state has corrected the number to the same count the data shows: About 50K left. That doesn't include provisionals, military and overseas ballots & ballots that are cured. #gapol
— Greg Bluestein (@bluestein) November 5, 2020

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 5, 10:15 am
The Georgia secretary of state keeps revising the estimate of the number of absentee ballots remaining: The latest word is 61,367. That means Biden has to win at least 65 percent of them in order to take the lead.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 0:17 utc | 190

From FiveThirtyEight:

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 9:23 am
It looks like another 20,000 or so votes have come in from Philadelphia, and they broke 92 percent for Biden. Along with about 9,000 votes from deep-blue Montgomery County that broke 73 percent for Biden, this cut Trump’s statewide advantage from 2.6 percentage points to 2.3 points. It might seem wild that the Philadelphia tranche of votes could be that Democratic, but look at this way: Philadelphia usually votes around 80 percent (or a little higher) for Democratic presidential candidates. Clinton, for example, won 82 percent of the county’s votes in 2016. Right now, Biden is at about 80 percent in Philadelphia. But we also know that voters who used mail-in ballots were more likely to be Democrats, so you’re talking about the most Democratic votes out of a strongly Democratic-leaning pool of voters.

Clare Malone Nov. 5, 9:50 am
The president has been tweeting more this morning about wanting to “stop” the (legitimate, of course) vote count. Apparently, what Trump means, according to his campaign, is that they want to stop the count until the Trump campaign can monitor it (again, as we’ve said before, there is no proof of fraud.) The specific rules for partisans observing the vote-counting process vary from state to state and the National Conference of State Legislatures has a handy guide for those rules. But take for instance, Pennsylvania, which is a pretty big prize today. “Partisan observers are permitted to be present when absentee and mail-in ballot envelopes are opened, and when the ballots are counted and recorded,” the NCSL writes. In Arizona, “Partisan observers are authorized to observe processing at the county recorder’s office.” In Nevada, “Members of the general public may observe the preparation of absentee ballots at central counting boards.” So, it’s unclear why the Trump campaign would argue that these vote counts would need to be stopped so they can observe them; they’re already allowed to observe.

MY NOTE: Yes, it's clear why he wants that - he wants to interrupt the process and have his people claim fraud where there is none.

Amelia Thomson-DeVeaux Nov. 5, 12:03 pm
Quick legal update: The Trump campaign/GOP case in Chatham County, Georgia, alleging mishandling of late-arriving ballots, was dismissed by a judge on Thursday morning after a hearing where evidence and arguments were presented.

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 1:06 pm
Meanwhile, another 4,500 votes came in from Georgia, which went 63 percent to 36 percent for Biden, but given the small number, they moved things only very slightly in Biden’s direction. According to ABC News, Trump now leads Biden by 0.27 percentage points, or 13,540 votes. Earlier today, we heard there were about 61,000 votes left to count, but since then, around 10,500 more votes have come in, and Georgia’s secretary of state just said that 50,401 ballots are still outstanding.

With counting continuing in numerous counties throughout #Georgia, as of 12:45 p.m. today there are approximately 50,401 ballots still outstanding#SecureTheVote
— GA Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (@GaSecofState) November 5, 2020

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 1:33 pm
In a sad sign of the times, the county registrar in Clark County, Nevada, said that his wife and mother are worried about his safety. After what we saw in Maricopa County, Arizona, when pro-Trump protesters showed up last night and caused a disturbance outside where vote counting was going on, it’s understandable.

messed up state of things: Joe Gloria, the Clark County, NV voter registrar, said his wife and mother fear for his safety
— Eliza Relman (@eliza_relman) November 5, 2020

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 5, 2:33 pm
Biden would need to win only 60 percent of the outstanding vote (mostly mail-in ballots) in Pennsylvania in order to carry the state. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer’s Jonathan Tamari, Biden had won 78 percent of the mail votes counted as of this morning.

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 4:22 pm
Around 14,000 Pennsylvania votes were just reported by Erie and Philadelphia counties (roughly split between them), and Biden captured more than 80 percent of those ballots. This updated count brought Trump’s lead in Pennsylvania below 100,000 votes to about 98,000 votes, or 1.5 percentage points (50.1 percent to 48.6 percent).

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 0:18 utc | 191

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nate Silver Nov. 5, 4:33 pm
If 90 percent of the remaining ballots are from Clark County, Nevada should be projected for Biden, IMO.

JUST IN: Nevada's Secretary of State says there are approximately 190,150 ballots left to count, 90% of which are from heavily-Democratic Clark County. h/t @StevenTDennis
— Emma Kinery (@EmmaKinery) November 5, 2020

Nate Silver Nov. 5, 4:53 pm
Biden now within 10,000 votes of Trump in Georgia.

GA Presidential Election Results
Trump (R): 49.48% (2,439,678 votes)
Biden (D): 49.29% (2,430,153 votes)
Jorgensen (L): 1.23% (60,821 votes)

Trump Margin: +9,525 (-3,246)
Estimated: > 99% votes in

More results here:
— Decision Desk HQ (@DecisionDeskHQ) November 5, 2020

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 6:13 pm
A new update of around 37,000 ballots just came in from Pennsylvania, of which Biden won about two-thirds. This reduced Trump’s raw vote margin to about 78,000 votes, or 1.2 percentage points (50.0 percent to 48.8 percent). Most of that was 30,000 votes from Cumberland County just west of Harrisburg, the state capital. While Cumberland is Republican-leaning — Trump leads there 55 percent to 44 percent now — Biden won nearly 70 percent of this tranche of ballots, which look to have made up most of the county’s remaining mail votes. Heavily Republican Blair County (home to Altoona) also reported more than 5,000 votes, but Trump only won a narrow majority of those.

And finally:

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 5, 3:56 pm
An Update On What's Still Left To Count

We’re going to take a bit of a break on the live blog until this evening to actually feed ourselves, bathe, etc. Here’s where things stand in the presidential race in the key remaining states:

Where we’re expecting more data tonight:

Arizona: Biden currently leads here by 68,129 votes, but there are around 430,000 left to count, according to KNXV-TV analyst Garrett Archer. We are expected to get more results from Pima County (Tucson) early this evening and from Maricopa County (the Phoenix area, where the bulk of the uncounted ballots are) at 9 p.m. Eastern. It’s unclear whether we’ll get a projection here. (Some outlets, such as Fox News, have already projected Arizona for Biden, but most media outlets have not, including our colleagues at ABC News.) But so far, Trump has been gaining in late-counted ballots, but there is reason to think that may not be true going forward.

Dribs and drabs, but we’re watching closely:

Pennsylvania: Trump currently leads Biden by 108,367 votes here, but that lead has been narrowing as more ballots have been counted. Approximately 340,000 mail-in votes are left to count, and the secretary of state said earlier on CNN that she thought the networks would be able to project a winner here today, but we don’t really have a good sense yet of timing: The outstanding votes have been trickling in slowly.
Georgia: Trump currently leads here by a razor-thin margin (12,768 votes) with 47,277 ballots left to count. Most of those are expected to be counted today, but at least one county (Chatham, where about 17,000 ballots are outstanding) says it will need until tomorrow. So whether we’ll get a projection here later today is murky, too.

No big updates until tomorrow — or later:

Nevada: After a recent update, Biden still leads here by 11,438 votes. Although about 140,000 late-arriving mail ballots or provisional ballots have yet to be counted, these ballots are expected to lean Democratic. Clark County (home of Las Vegas), where 90 percent of the outstanding ballots are, will release its next update on Friday and should have the bulk of the counting done this weekend.
North Carolina: North Carolina has counted every ballot it had in its possession as of Tuesday, and Trump leads by 76,737 votes among them. However, the state has announced that about 117,000 mail-in ballots and 40,766 provisional ballots are potentially outstanding, although not all of them will count. Mail-in ballots have until Nov. 12 to arrive, and only at that point will more results be released.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 0:19 utc | 192

OK, now I'm up to date.

From the info from FiveThirtyEight, I think we can say this:

1) Things are going well for Biden and badly for Trump, even in places where Trump currently has the lead.
2) Biden is likely to take Nevada, and has a shot at Pennsylvania.
3) Arizona is the problem. It was called for Biden early, and that appears now to have been premature. However, Biden is still leading there.
4) If Biden takes Nevada, he gets six more Electoral Votes. If he retains Arizona, it's over for Trump.
5) If Biden takes Pennsylvania - 20 Electoral Votes - it's over for Trump.
6) The only way Trump wins is if Biden loses Nevada and Pennsylvania and Arizona.
7) Trump is expending legal (and non-legal) efforts to get the vote counts stopped until he can send in the bully-boys to disrupt the process. So far the courts are not going along. Read the posts at FiveThirtyEight on those efforts.
8) The election is still up in the air until tomorrow, so I'm *not* calling it yet. But if I *had* to call it, I'd say Biden wins.

And of course, if Biden wins, all hell breaks loose as Trump and his idiot supporters go ballistic. And of course, if Trump wins, all hell breaks loose as everyone else goes ballistic. So the one thing we can count is: ballistic losers. LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 0:28 utc | 193

I think this belongs to a paradox category:
The orange man just said: “there is voter fraud in US.”
Considering all the lies he’s told, do I believe him?

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 6 2020 0:50 utc | 194

I was disturbed by what I saw on Matt Taibbi's election night coverage group. People whom I admire were on there: Katie Halper, Thomas Frank, Jimmy Dore, Brianna Joy Gray, Aaron Mate, Abby Martin. a few other more mainstream like David Sirota and Marianne Williamson. Most had fought against Russiagate and got beat up a bit for it. But what bothered me is that they were almost cheerleading for Biden (except Jimmy). At that point the numbers favored Trump more than now but their tone was: "Biden is really bad but I can't believe Trump is winning." Most were shocked, nervious, Sirota was depressed and Taibbi almost speechless-- the 7 beers he drank didn't help him. Mate wasn't making sense of his vote for Biden, the first time I remember him like that.
Here's my take: we Americans are way too soft, too spoiled and insulated and we are not ready to risk losing our cushy life or our stuff to organize and grow a resistance. We are not Bolivia. We are not Cuba. We are not Nicaragua. We are not Yemen. We are not Iran. We are not Venezuela. We really don't have leaders. The people above have done some work and helped some but they are not Evo Morales. They are not Mandela, Castro, or Che. We barflies are not ready either. This forum could help us prepare but only if we (I'm talking to myself here also) go out and start pushing and talking and organizing in our neighborhoods.
... but... we might lose our stuff... or more.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 6 2020 1:01 utc | 195

Yeah kinda flagged this one early up in the comment section myself... glad GG has more on it.

Seriously, wtf is up with not being able to count votes like any other normal country in the USA??????

Posted by: Et Tu | Nov 6 2020 1:02 utc | 196

Trump was true to form! Is there time to impeach him again for that performance that we just witnessed? He and his son are inciting civil war fgs! He's literally pulling a Samson option. I cannot believe that anyone would take any of what he said seriously? Omg, don't let him drag the election into the gutter! Don't give credence to any of it! It's all manipulation.

He's trying to steal the election and impose his will. This is f**king treachery and an assault on democracy! He's either out of his mind or really the Manchurian candidate. Arrest him already, damnit!

I wrote the following when he spoke at 2 a.m. after the election BEFORE the CLEAR outcome we are witnessing. I didn't post it cause I thought maybe it was over the top. Nooooh, I should have posted it! I was right to think this:

What Trump said tonight is shocking. How can anyone just dismiss what he said should he go on to win! He is unfit for the highest office.

What is the matter with people? This gangster is unfit for office; he has already corrupted the office in so many ways. Why is everyone lowering the bar for him? The damage he is doing to society and democracy or what was already a flawed democracy that can be repaired is indelible. Yes, he arose from that flaw, but the path is to fix what's wrong not allow fascism to root! Trump is a depraved narcissist bringing everyone down into the gutter! He's a pathological liar. He's not religious. He doesn't even read the Bible except to display it upside down! He's not even Elmer Gantry with a captive following; he's Jim Jones taking everyone down with him! He's elliciting the worst of man's nature. Snap out of it, people!

This is how fascism starts; with cult-like control. Can people not see what he's doing?

My God; he belongs in an asylum not in the Presidency!

Covid didn't just expose Trump for the fraud that he is. 3000 Americans died on 9/11 and they are memorialized yearly. America! 235,000 Americans died in less than a year! This President has no compassion for them or their families and everyone has followed him into an alternate reality of distraction and divisiveness and ignored the great loss and sacrifice of those who tried to prevent this tragedy. How can you now allow this man to pit Americans against each other on top of such staggering loss? Stop him!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6 2020 1:10 utc | 197

Richard Steven Hack @Nov5 23:56 #183

My prediction was wrong. I'm happier to be wrong than right! A landslide for Trump (possible only via DS manipulation) would've been a terrible sign of what's to come.

I'm waiting for the final election result before writing an assessment of the prediction.

For now, I'm enjoying my popcorn.

Jackrabbit insisted that the Deep State had orchestrated a landslide" win for Trump.

"Insisted" is waaay too strong.

I made a prediction based on my belief that 2) Deep State actually supported Trump much more than we are led to believe; and 2) that the odds of a major war in the next four years is fairly high.

A landslide win by Trump would've enabled him to lead the country into war much more easily than a close win.

... Jackrabbit had to admit that the Deep State likes Clinton, so maybe Biden would win.

IMO Clinton is a powerful force in the DS but not a decisive force.

b's description of the possibility of Clinton as VP made some sense.

In some ways Kamala-Clinton might be better than making Trump into a type of 'Glorious Leader'. And the effort that it might take to manipulate the elections to such a great extent might've been deemed too risky.

And let's not forget that Biden is also a pro-Empire Deep Stater. In the end, I agree with those that say that the Deep State EMPIRE FIRST agenda will not change.

<> <> <> <> <>

PS I would think that Biden-Kamala or Kamala-Hillary is preferable (to the Deep State) to a President Trump that clings to office with election gimmicks (verbal attacks, lawsuits, confounding the count via violence, etc.).


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 6 2020 1:35 utc | 198

Circe: I read during one of impeachments that a journalist's preschool son asked her if the president will be oranged. A confusion of two fruits. Trump will definitely be oranged, verging on the color of blood oranges.

My personal take: given a choice of a senile imperialist and an imperialist with Turette syndrome, it is better to throw out the one currently in office. This method does not always work, in some countries -- say, Ukraine -- we had succession of crappy presidents, usually with a brand new party, but at least sends a signal that it could be worthwhile to change something. Perhaps one day dev/null will not work.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 6 2020 1:41 utc | 199

Now for a bit of Schadenfreude comic relief...

House Democrats savage Nancy Pelosi and say she needs replaced after election disaster then feud with the Squad for backing socialism in wild conference call which leaks

* Rep. Abigail Spanberger, a moderate Democrat, ripped into party leaders on a conference call on Thursday after House majority shrank

* No one should say 'defund the police' ever again,' Spanberger said, referring to one of The Squad's demands

* We will get f****** torn apart,' she added

* Speaker Nancy Pelosi defended the party, saying Democrats held the House

* Democratic Rep. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who lost, her race, cried during call

* She said colleagues couldn't pronounce her name and were mean on Twitter

* Details from the call played on live on Twitter as those on it leaked details to the Capitol Hill press corps, who promptly tweeted them

* As details from the conference call emerged online, lawmakers demanded the guilty leakers be found

Posted by: gm | Nov 6 2020 1:42 utc | 200

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