Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 05, 2020

Can't Count Votes? Just Draw Straws.

It seems that we all will have to fill up our popcorn supplies as the rather comical and disgraceful process of U.S. vote counting is likely to continue until maybe December 8, the safe harbor date on which the states will have to certify their electors.

The race is nowhere near where the Democrats and their supporting media had expected it to go. Just last week polls claimed that Biden would lead in Wisconsin by 17 percent. The current margin is a rather dubious 0.6 percent which upcoming recounts may well eliminate.

That the Democrats lose House seats, do not win the Senate and barely manage to drag their demented presidential candidate towards a stalemate tells a lot about their lack of sane policies. A donor party completely disinterested in what the people really want - medicare for all, no fracking etc. - will have little chance to survive a future onslaught of conservatives with a more competent figure head than Donald Trump.

There will be protests, probably violent ones, and more legal action from either side. I see no compromise possible that would satisfy both parties. I fear that, should Trump lose this election. Trumpism will only grow and make the U.S. ungovernable.

Maybe Trump and Biden could publicly draw straws to get over with it.

Posted by b on November 5, 2020 at 12:06 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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James #103

I nominate Borat as the guaido of USA. He is recognisable, a fraud and a pseudo demonazi. Ideal

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 6 2020 1:58 utc | 201

Enough drama already. The pattern is clear enough, Biden is gonna win the vote count.

By tomorrow evening we'll be in Act II: Recount

This is gonna go on for a while.

--

Also, Republicans did so well compared to expectations (heck their main opponent is the most conservative Dem available), they'll be prepared to let Trump sink on his own, I'd say. McConnell is gonna be interested in one thing and one thing only - winning the GA senate runoff (so that he keeps being senate maj. ldr.) For all other DC Repubs, the time to get off the Trump ship is now, so look for that.

I'd say tune out the crap, rest up, and try to figure out what kind of policies Biden's conservative-lite unity govt is going to foist on the US and the world. Its gonna be a 'unique opportunity' etc etc

Posted by: ptb | Nov 6 2020 2:08 utc | 202

Enough drama already. Posted by: ptb | Nov 6 2020 2:08 utc | 201

This is in Jackrabbit "orchestration" theory. However, the script is written by professionals who went for a blockbuster and sequels. Drama, drama and more drama! Jubilation on both sides when they read opinion polls (Trumpist had their "truthful polls" to cheer), then alternation of dismay, hope, joy and dismay again.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 6 2020 2:30 utc | 203

@ 200 uncle tungsten - "Borat as the guaido of USA":... they were getting closer with trump, but now taking a step back with biden... i wonder who is next??

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2020 2:34 utc | 204

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 6 2020 1:35 utc | 197 "Insisted" is waaay too strong.

Ah, no. But OK, we can agree to disagree on that insignificant point.

"A landslide win by Trump would've enabled him to lead the country into war much more easily than a close win."

Probably correct. But given the crowd of warmongers Biden has, I'd say it's a toss-up. I still see war with Iran within the X years; the only question is whether X is 4 or 8.

"IMO Clinton is a powerful force in the DS but not a decisive force."

IMO Clinton is a *beneficiary* of the Deep State - but not a member herself. She doesn't have enough money, and she doesn't have any direct intelligence connections. She does have political friends and probably some support from corporate Deep State members. So in my view the Deep State uses her for their purposes and she uses them to try to get power.

"And the effort that it might take to manipulate the elections to such a great extent might've been deemed too risky."

Yes, I agree there. Trump is a bull in a China shop in general and will be during elections. Regular politicians have a hair more "finesse" at their fraud.

"I agree with those that say that the Deep State EMPIRE FIRST agenda will not change."

Agreed. Which is why in the end the only reason I want Trump gone is so I don't have to read about his stupid tweets and insane pronouncements. I'm not a fan of clown shows. Now, watching Biden stumble through his pressers might be fun for some people, but I couldn't care less. What matters is what wars he starts.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 2:37 utc | 205

Geez.. Biden has grabbed Pennsylvania by the pussy.. Bye, Bye Trump .. Good Riddance..

Posted by: Nick | Nov 6 2020 2:37 utc | 206

Looks like Biden is going to be the next POTUS. Everybody can fill a lawsuit and even if Trump wins them, none gives him the electoral votes as they only ask for a recount or a very vague (e.g. annulling the votes counted when they papered the windows - how will the Justice system know which ballot was counted during that period and which wasn't?). His only chance was to annul all the mail in votes - which obviously isn't gonna happen, as vote by mail is enshrined in the Constitution.

But regardless, we already have two big conclusions:

1) Trump may be ephemeral, but he opened the Pandora Box. He's the messenger of the Apocalypse, not the cause of the Apocalypse. He's the first symptom of one very clear aspect every American should have in mind and never forget: their Empire is declining (albeit very slowly);

2) This elections was pure, unadulterated, humiliating defeat for the Postmoderns - both on the right (neofascists, white supremacists) and on the left (woke, identitarians, SJWs). Trump got more Latino and Black votes than Biden - who won the white vote. The Latinos of Florida are the scum of the scum who should be dead, not voting - they are criminals and oligarchs (and children and wives of them) who are wanted in their countries of origin; the USA should deport them so they can meet their due fate, pay the price for all the crimes against humanity they committed. They voted for Trump because they literally see the Democrats as Socialists (they have PTSD with the word, it reminisces them of the humiliating defeats they suffered from the hands of Fidel Castro). At the same time, many whites are simply not in a mood of abandoning their cushy lives in the upper middle class suburbs to form militias to kill vagrants and gays in the streets of Chicago, LA and NY; they just want the good ol' social-democrat combo of better wages, better working conditions, jobs for their children and grandchildren, universal healthcare and a new infrastructure. They didn't vote in Trump because Trump's economic policies were an utter failure which only made Wall Street happy.
In the end, what determined the whole thing was class. It is class that is the decisive factor in the motions of any historical social system. When the cookie crumbles, people vote on their class interests, not on their racial or gender identity. That's why, at the same time the far-right Latinos voted en masse for Trump in Florida, they also voted for a USD 15.00 minimum wage (with absolute majority, over 50% of the vote). That's why those whites who voted for Biden: they don't want to live in a world just with their fellow whites; at the end of the day, they still want Jose to mow their lawn for USD 5.00 and Maria to watch for their kids for USD 10.00 on Sundays. Marx was right, whatever liberal thinker you believed in/the Bible was wrong, get over it.

Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 2:38 utc | 207

This is getting sooo boring now, here at moa it seems to have reduced rethugbots & dembots throwing rocks and not even just at each other, anyone/thing visible & in range is copping it. Yawn grow up boys & girls.

A couple of points from someone 100% disinterested in the eventual outcome.

1/ Will libertarian party prez candidate Jo Jorgenson be 'ralph nadered' We all remember what happened to honest decent human being Ralph Nader after the 2000 election. In typical dem party fashion the party unwilling to face the truth that they had chickened out and let the Bush family steal Florida, a major distraction "Let's blame Ralph Nader" was launched and Nader was driven from the public space by the very people who have long benefited from his hard work over decades.

If you check results in Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona, or Nevada , you will find the same thing every time, that in those states orangeutan, orange moron or whatever is your favourite nym, trump is losing to dopey joe biden, he is losing by less than the number of votes that have gone to Jorgenson.
This is going to be a close race whichever way it goes and Jorgenson is polling between 1% to 1.5% across all states.

Now before all the liberts round here get cranked, no I'm not saying if Jorgenson hadn't run all those votes would have gone to the orange idjit, I imagine many would have stayed at home.

BUT blaming Jorgenson would be an easy out if you were a well paid rethug operative looking for an excuse as to why you failed.

2/ The biggest loser in all this has to be the media, print, TV and online all (including fox news eg someone linked to an article in the NZ Herald a coupla days back which claimed 'senior republicans' were distancing themselves from orangeutan's threats of lawsuits and sledging trump - that story was from newscorp australia a rupert murdoch corporation).

Pretty much every media outlet (except Fox news sometimes) has run with the Russiagate nonsense plus every symptom of trump derangement syndrome yet few appear to have swallowed the bait, dem voters voted dem as per usual but when one considers the sheer volume of the media's trump hate, there has been bugger-all uptake of that stuff by voters.

In other words the media's ability to propagandise the masses has been severely destroyed. Yahoo!

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 6 2020 2:40 utc | 208

Trump's lead in GA is down to 2500 votes with 16k remaining to be counted from largely blue counties. Biden's lead in Arizona is holding up with mainly blue counties to be counted. Nevada is likely to be Biden's. Trump's lead in PA rapidly evaporating. Trump is reduced to making evidence-free claims of fraud. It looks like it is over. He is very possible that Trump is going to lose by a margin greater than the margin he won by against Clinton in the electoral college. He will lose the popular vote by a million votes more than he lost it by in '16. The Dems held the house and gained a senate seat.
The incumbency is a powerful position to run a presidential campaign from. Trump will be only the 11th of 44 presidents to lose as an incumbent.

Posted by: David | Nov 6 2020 2:45 utc | 209

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nate Silver Nov. 5, 6:59 pm
Trump’s lead is now down to about 3,600 votes in Georgia, per Decision Desk HQ.

Sarah Frostenson
Nov. 5, 6:57 pm
Trump is now giving remarks from the White House in which he is not only questioning the accuracy of the polls, but going a step farther to say that they were falsified. That claims is baseless, but one thing we found in the lead-up to the election is that Republican voters were less confident than Democrats that the election would be conducted fairly. Trump is actively stoking those fears in his address.

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 7:08 pm
We knew coming into the election that mail ballots would be counted last in many states because of how their ballot-processing system worked. We also knew mail ballots would be heavily Democratic because of a huge partisan split in how people planned to vote — a split that Trump himself exacerbated by trying to cast doubt on mail ballots and discouraging his own supporters from voting by mail despite the coronavirus pandemic. Trump is also making unfounded claims about fraud. His campaign complained in court earlier today about supposedly not having observers in the counting room in Philadelphia, but his campaign’s attorney admitted that the campaign already had observers in the room, which prompted the judge to ask, “Then what’s your problem?” Additionally, the votes being counted in places like Pennsylvania are votes that were cast by Election Day, which Trump is wrongly claiming were too late to be counted. This press conference is another attempt to undermine faith in the election result, just as the president has spent the entire campaign doing.

Kaleigh Rogers Nov. 5, 7:21 pm
One thing Trump repeatedly claimed in his speech tonight was that his campaign representatives were not being given access to observe the vote-counting process and that they’ve had to sue in order to “have people watch.” First of all, the vote-counting process is always bipartisan and campaign observers are allowed to witness it. Second of all, his lawsuits (in Pennsylvania and Michigan) weren’t about being allowed to observe — because, again, they are and have been allowed — they’re about how close those observers able to stand. The lawsuit in Michigan was thrown out, and the Pennsylvania one was dismissed today after both sides agreed to the number of observers each campaign can have in the room.

Laura Bronner Nov. 5, 7:11 pm
Even before Nov. 3, we expected vote counts to shift toward one part or the other depending on whether Election Day votes were counted first or early and absentee votes were counted first, a process that differed by state. In states where early and absentee votes were counted first, such as Ohio and Kansas, there was a “red shift” as Election Day ballots were added to the total, while in states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, where early and absentee votes were not counted in advance, there was a “blue shift” once those votes were added to the tallies of Election Day ballots. Trump’s claim that the blue shift in these states is evidence of fraud or malfeasance is completely baseless. The fact that Republicans were more likely to vote on Election Day, while Democrats were more likely to vote early or absentee, combined with the differences in when these votes were counted, is what causes these shifts.

Dan Hopkins Nov. 5, 7:18 pm
Here in Pennsylvania, Trump’s margin continues to narrow, with ballot counts updating in multiple counties, including a bunch from Philadelphia; his lead now stands at 64,237 votes. On its own, Philadelphia should still have something at or above 60,000 mail ballots left to count. Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) has 35,000 mail ballots it is legally not allowed to count until tomorrow. And the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Julian Routh estimated less than an hour ago that there were on the order of at least 255,000 mail ballots still outstanding statewide, although that number has dropped since. And there are provisional ballots still to count as well.

Micah Cohen Nov. 5, 8:22 pm
We wanted to follow up on a live blog post that we wrote on the afternoon of Nov. 4 and that was later tweeted from the main FiveThirtyEight Twitter account.

Two more batches of Pennsylvania vote were reported:
-23,277 votes in Philadelphia, all for Biden
-about 5,300 votes in Luzerne County, nearly 4,000 of which were for Biden
*With 83% of the expected vote in, Trump’s lead in PA is now just below 6 points. https://t.co/zspxaPkzKs
— FiveThirtyEight (@FiveThirtyEight) November 4, 2020

This one batch of votes in Philadelphia has been picked up by some people, including a commentator on Fox News, as possible evidence of fraud. It’s not. According to Edison Research, which aggregates vote data for ABC News and other networks (and is the source of the data in question), sometimes election officials and vote aggregators unintentionally enter vote updates one candidate at a time, rather than entering all candidates together. Other candidates’ votes are then included in a subsequent batch.

That appears to be what happened here, and in the next update from Philadelphia, Trump got about double the share of votes that he was getting in the other updates from there during that stretch of time.

Dan Hopkins Nov. 5, 8:58 pm
Speaking of Pennsylvania, Trump’s lead there is now around 53,000 votes, with sizable numbers of mail ballots and provisional ballots still to count.

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 5, 9:12 pm
The contest for Arizona just got closer, but Biden still leads there. That’s the takeaway from Maricopa County’s approximately 75,000-vote report a moment ago. Trump won 56 percent of that batch to Biden’s 42 percent, which cut Biden’s statewide lead to 1.6 points, or about 46,000 votes. With perhaps another 200,000 votes outstanding from Maricopa — and at least a few from other counties in Arizona — Trump is not out of the race for the state’s 11 electoral votes yet.

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 5, 9:40 pm
Biden may pull into the lead in Georgia tonight. According to CNN, Clayton County plans to release results from its 5,700 outstanding ballots by midnight. Biden won the last batch of Clayton votes 87 percent to 13 percent; if he wins the remainder by the same amount, he’d net about 4,300 votes. Trump’s current Georgia lead is only 2,497 votes.

Dan Hopkins Nov. 5, 9:47 pm
New Pennsylvania ballots from Monroe County (Stroudsburg and the Delaware Water Gap, bordering New Jersey) bring Trump’s lead down to about 42,000 votes. That’s a meaningful number — it’s now below the 44,000 by which Trump won the state in 2016.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 2:50 utc | 210

Hint:
Capitalism is really struggling, and what will come next?

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Nov 6 2020 2:53 utc | 211

AP now has Biden and Trump tied in Georgia: both 49.4% of the vote, Biden 2,445,321, Trump 2,447,223.

Trump may win Nevada and get 6 Electoral votes. Biden may take Georgia with 16. Or Biden may win Pennsylvania and gain 20 Electoral votes.

AP currently counts Arizona as Biden's, giving him 264 Electoral votes. If Arizona shifts to Trump, Biden's total drops to 253. But if Biden gets Pennsylvania's 20, that puts him at 273 - win. Trump is at 214. Winning Nevada just moves him up to 220. Arizona flipping back to Trump pushes him to 231. He still needs 39 more votes. He can only get them from Georgia (16), North Carolina (15) and Pennsylvania (20). Lose any one of those states and he loses.

Reminder: Trump leads in those three states. But his lead is shrinking, especially in Pennsylvania and Georgia. Not looking good for the Orange Mophead.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 3:15 utc | 212

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nathaniel Rakich, Anna Wiederkehr Nov. 5, 9:55 pm
We’re going to run silent for a bit as we await a potential lead change in Georgia. With Biden down 1,902 votes and about 16,000 left to count, Biden needs to win only 56 percent of what remains in order to take the lead statewide. If he does, we’ll let you know right here, so don’t go away.

RSH Note: If Trump loses Georgia, it's over - as long as Arizona doesn't flip back to Trump. If Arizona does, Biden still has 253 plus Georgia's 16 or 269. Then he needs only one more Electoral vote. Which means it will come down to Nevada and Pennsylvania (unless there are other Electoral votes I'm not aware of - or faithless Electors, which is always possible.) If Biden gets either Nevada or Pennsylvania as well as Georgia, he wins.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 3:20 utc | 213

Failed to impress:

US elections attract few Chinese fans

Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 3:40 utc | 214

Well, the game is going into double overtime Bobby and now with the score keepers going home for the night the game might not start for days. To top that off Don and Ron up in the p(l)ay by play booth are speculating that the Leaf's (team blue) goalie might not be around when play resumes. I don't know if the "game" will head to a shootout, (for some of the fan(atic)s it might) but the courts are a distinct possibility. Ol' Joe will say he knows some good lawyers. Well, The Dumpster likely knows a few good judges. He should, he put them there. May you live in interesting times. What's Chinese for popcorn? (Spoiler 爆米花).

Posted by: Tom | Nov 6 2020 3:58 utc | 215

b, or anyone who might be familiar with the issue -

Did you know that the Monthly Archives are not working? Were they removed intentionally or is there some sort of software bug? I was wanting to go back 4-5 years and look for some entries for personal research. Actually would love to be able to go back to the very beginning if possible. Not sure if the wayback machine captures MoA, but I guess I will check.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 6 2020 4:04 utc | 216

Unlike vk, my only takeaway from this election is that this is the first elections where the media determines the winner.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 4:22 utc | 217

Re: _K_C_# 215

Which archives aren't working? I clicked on September '06 and the posts came up right away which kinda surprised me because I am currently using a pretty slow vpn. plus 10 years or so ago b backed up all posts to a cd which he sent out to all of us prior to rebuilding his site & I thought that was because he couldn't keep everything archived. Turns out I was wrong and AFAIK everything is still there. The search function has always been a bit screwy though, is that what you are having problems with?
I just tried November 2017 & that was also fine.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 6 2020 4:52 utc | 218

@ vk #213
Failed to impress:. .US elections attract few Chinese fans
The doctrinaire Chinese are just jealous of the success of US rules-based order in the leader of the free world.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 6 2020 5:16 utc | 219

Rick Santorum, Republican shit disturber on CNN, is trying to indulge Trump's paranoid, loser hysteria suggesting the results in Pennsylvania should be set aside so that Trump hack, Lindsey Graham, can conduct an investigation, cancel everything and exact a coup on the voters with the Electoral college electors.

First of all, MSNBC rightly cut away from Trump's speech tonight minutes after it started, refusing to broadcast Trump's lies, staged paranoia and fascist propaganda.

CNN - will you take a cue from MSNBC, damn you?! Stop giving air time to Trump's attempt to STEAL the election and indulging his twisted fantasy that he is the real winner!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6 2020 5:24 utc | 220

The all-knowing, all-seeing Reuters has as it's main Headline:

Vote counts push Biden closer to victory as Trump falsely claims election being 'stolen'

They must have asked the DNC if they had done any cheating and who, with a quite innocent look, replied, "Who, us?"

No bias at Reuters - "Who, us?".

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2020 5:24 utc | 221

vinnieoh @96

What a great and informed comment. Totally agree. B missed the point in this post, sorry to say.

Posted by: MikeA | Nov 6 2020 5:31 utc | 222

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nate Silver Nov. 6, 12:50 am
Decision Desk HQ has Trump’s lead down to 1,479 votes in Georgia based on what I’m assuming is another small batch of returns from Clayton County.

GA Presidential Election Results
Trump (R): 49.4% (2,448,056 votes)
Biden (D): 49.37% (2,446,577 votes)
Trump Margin: +1,479 (-318)
Estimated: > 99% votes in
More results here: https://t.co/xlHf7GZUxJ
— Decision Desk HQ (@DecisionDeskHQ) November 6, 2020

Nate Silver Nov. 6, 12:29 am
So … where do we stand here? Well, we’re playing the waiting game. Look, FiveThirtyEight doesn’t “call” elections, and even if we did, we’d probably be exceptionally conservative. But we’re expecting that at some point, Biden will surpass Trump in the vote count in both Georgia and Pennsylvania. When? We don’t know. Possibly in the wee hours of the morning here, but also possibly not. Not so helpful, I know. But we know from our years of covering elections that sometimes important things happen at 3 in the morning … and sometimes they don’t because some key player in the system has literally gone to sleep.

The Georgia Secretary of State website is not updating again, just like last night. It is possible the Clayton numbers have been uploaded and the person who updates the website went home for the night. Seriously.
— Brendan Keefe (@BrendanKeefe) November 6, 2020

So for now, we’re keeping an eye on those states, but we won’t be posting much until we get some news.

RSH Take: We're in for another uninformative night.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 5:53 utc | 223

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 6 2020 4:52 utc | 217

Turns out it's just fine for me too on a different computer. No clue what that's about, but on this one all I see is a small yellowish rectangle that says Monthly Archives with nothing else in the box. Switching to my "work" PC and there they all are. Too lazy to get to the bottom of it from a technical standpoint this morning but thank you.

P.S. I remember the CD offer, but at the time IIRC I didn't feel comfortable divulging my real name in any possible way due to my career at the time and couldn't afford to end up on a watch list. Didn't have any way to pay anonymously from where I was in Texas and didn't have a PO box. Not that any of that would have put me out of the reach of even basic warrantless surveillance, but I was more concerned that this site and b's email account might be subject to hacks and didn't want my personal info getting out there. But I'm going by a very hazy memory. Also I remember you were around way back in the day, at least as far back as 2007. In fact you're the only person in the bar that I think has been around longer than 8-10 years.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 6 2020 6:01 utc | 224

There is nothing wrong with the counting. What is wrong is that Trump and his goons have been trying to stop it. And that follows months of preparations and lawsuits to make it difficult.

This election is particularly challenging because of Covid-19. You would understand that, right? Democrats believe that is a serious problem, and want to vote by mail in many cases if possible, but that has been restricted in many places for a long time. Democrats tried to expand voting by mail.

Republicans tried (and in most cases succeeded) in blocking any expansions of vote-by-mail. They further tried to add additional restrictions to existing vote-by-mail policies (and that could end in the Supreme Court). Republicans are happy to vote in person, as they don't believe in COVID (and often don't wear masks either). It would be to Republican advantage to slow every step of the process down so deadlines in counting mail-in mallots (which is the most difficult part of vote counting) can't be met. In the experience of me and my friends who have been ballot counters, Republicans will find the most minute excuses to disqualify Democratic ballots, Democrats are usually just trying to get the ballots counted quickly and fairly.

Republicans were successful in litigation stopping the early counting of mail-in ballots, because they didn't want the earliest reports of votes to include the predominantly Democratic mail-in votes. That slowed ballot counting in at least one state.

The insane but constitutionally mandated Electoral College system makes the nationwide count meaningless. Each state being a different combination of different classes of people, the whole election is determined by a handful of counties in a few states where the count is difficult to predict for various reasons. There are always going to be problem counties, the special quality of the Electoral College system is that it makes the entire election hinge on them.

Actually, in no US Presidential election are official results produced overnight. They always take days, because they have to get it right. But when there aren't so many problems like the Covid, the huge vote, the addition to the culmination of years of voter suppression methods, prediction in the minute areas that swing the entire contry because of its arcane system is too risky.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Nov 6 2020 6:03 utc | 225

During the last four years I barely ever - EVER - listened to Trump speaking, he is so cringe-worthy. Am not sure yet, but I might enjoy listening to President Biden and, with a smile and a chuckle, savor the cringes his looming dementia is eliciting from those that voted for him.

---

Congrats, Dementiacrats

---

I voted for Howie Hawkins and Angela Walker

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2020 6:05 utc | 226

Circe @26 is correct regarding misunderstandings of the current U.S. voting and overall situation. Trump will lose decisively by far more than he "won" in 2016. The vote count is entirely predictable because Democrats were worried about Republican voter suppression, other election fraud and long lines in pandemic danger zones in cities.

Therefore they wisely encouraged their supporters to submit ballots by mail, in part to protect. Trump, by contrast, urged his supporters to vote in person on election day. Those votes were counted quickly but the mail ballots take longer to count, particularly in states like Pennsylvania (20 electoral votes) where the Republican legislature wanted to create maximum gamesmanship by forbidding the counting of mail votes until Nov. 3. Thus, the large majority of votes being counted now in Pennsylvania, among other places, are from Democrats.

Reports to the contrary are scaremongering, motivated either by ignorance or bias against Biden, much like claims that he is senile or a "rapist." Regarding the latter claim last spring, let's look into it further since it keeps coming up in reader comments as conventional truth. Instead, it's notable that the woman making the politically motivated claim last spring has not been brought forward since even by Trump and his smear-artist advisors like Roger Stone, Jacob Wohl and Rudy Giuliani. She was caught falsely claiming in court to have earned an undergraduate degree in separate examinations of her troubled career, and it's a poor reflection on any analysts to continue to cite her when she has been unable to specify when or where the alleged attack occurred.

More importantly, Biden has already won more votes than any other presidential candidate in U.S. history and almost certainly will be declared the winner of the election shortly despite a vast propaganda campaign against him and his running mate that essentially accused them falsely of backing socialist and anti-police policies in fact advocated by others.

Posted by: Andrew Kreig | Nov 6 2020 6:07 utc | 227

Bagoom @ 51 "Counting the military budget where a hammer costs, what, mucho dinero." $435. Mind you, they're good hammers.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Nov 6 2020 6:19 utc | 228

re K_C_ # 223

If I had to guess I would say it is a browser issue, I get those often because I'm not a fan of updating anything, in the finish I compromised by having one browser which uses a cookie cleaner and history cleaner which I do keep up to date that I only ever open when I have a vpn running. Is that secure? I don't expect so, but it makes me feel better knowing I may have created an extra hassle for the sticky-beaked sheet sniffers.

I dunno how long I've been here - since it opened and we had to shift from the whiskey bar, but I got there late after Kos flicked billmon.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 6 2020 6:27 utc | 229

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 6, 1:36 am
Georgia and Pennsylvania are really stretching out their moments in the spotlight — they’re releasing new batches of ballots at an agonizingly slow pace. (Though, in fairness, it is late at night and they are working very hard.) The latest numbers seem to be on Decision Desk HQ, which has Trump’s Pennsylvania lead down to 18,224 votes and his Georgia lead down to 1,267.

RSH Take: And the Trump bleeding continues - not from an artery, but from veins, apparently. Or maybe nosebleeds...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 7:02 utc | 230

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nathaniel Rakich Nov. 6, 1:36 am
Georgia and Pennsylvania are really stretching out their moments in the spotlight — they’re releasing new batches of ballots at an agonizingly slow pace. (Though, in fairness, it is late at night and they are working very hard.) The latest numbers seem to be on Decision Desk HQ, which has Trump’s Pennsylvania lead down to 18,224 votes and his Georgia lead down to 1,267.

RSH Take: The Trump bleeding continues - not from an artery but veins. Maybe a nosebleed...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 7:04 utc | 231

Trump went full Russia Russia Gate(!!!) -with his election fraud meltdown gate.

Frickin Hilarious as the parties change rolls.

There are no blue states, there are no red states, there is only the United States !!! Ha

Posted by: CitizenX | Nov 6 2020 7:09 utc | 232

The Middle Aged voting procedures in states like Pennsylvania make Democracy look bad in the eyes of the world. Is de US internally run by Mormons?

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 6 2020 7:23 utc | 233

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2020 21:47 utc | 162 -- "The result is an essentially illiterate citizenry when it comes to knowing their own national history...."

Today's Americans are ignorant, not history-capable.
They are also supremely arrogant, blindly narrow-minded.
And they are asleep at the ship called "Freedom".
They sometimes wake up, only to complain about 'gloating'.
It is really tiring to plough through the fog on this blog.

I guess you love your country very, very deeply to take on the heavy, heartbreakingly thankless burden of writing a book to wake up the knuckleheads.

Some day, a young person with an old head will find your book useful. I hope for you that time will come, if not in this generation, then in the next. Or the next.

I hope the same for my writing here -- that some wayback machine will reassure some future reformer that he / she is on the right track; that there are people living in these times of great trials who were not distracted, but were awake to the evil being done to good decent people.

I'd like to think that we share the same hope, if not the same method.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 6 2020 7:58 utc | 234

Circumstantial evidence points to fraud. Biden was a weak candidate suffering from suspected dementia and the evidence was unambiguous that at least his family was guilty of corrupt dealings with foreign controlled corporations. Biden's fingerprints on the Ukraine overthrow and his profiting from it were also provable with plenty of evidence, including his own boast that he had gotten the Ukrainian chief prosecutor Shokhin removed because he was looking into Burisma. Other circumstantial evidence is that the Biden campaign did not bother with the ground game, using the covid scare as its excuse. Other evidence is the apparent coordination of the halt in counting late Tuesday night by swing state election counting authorities in states controlled by democrat governors, most of whom were unpopular due to extreme lockdowns partially intended to weaken the economy and get rid of Trump. The playbook they then followed is the familiar yankee playbook where a "computer glitch" eliminates the candidate the CIA did not want to win the election. A famous such instance was the prevention of AMLO becoming president of Mexico after such an occurrence (in 2018 when he ran again he was far ahead, and the CIA had other fish to fry.) s Also, the number of votes appears to be targeted to have been just enough plus a bit to win the states in question based on what Trump's known vote total already was. Bear in mind the leads overturned in the three states were enough that the press probably should have called the states for Trump, 4% in Wisconsin, 7% in Michigan and a massive 14% in Pennsylvania. This also indicates an alarming level of corruption. As such, it is also significant and the way the votes suddenly appeared at 4-6 in the morning, after Trump had said he would legally contest the fraud. They had earlier only said they had suspended counting and wouldn't have figures for a day or two. This change of plan suggests that they moved fast to shore up their position in the wee hours of the morning to create faits accomplis before Trump's lawyers could move on Wednesday. The big vans transporting many thousands of ballots suddenly appearing also indicates a possible plan. What is interesting is that this occurred in three of the affected states (PA took longer to act and didn't act immediately because they had a greater deficit to cover. The other factor is the Stalin like unanimity of the new votes appearing and that fewer votes changed in Senate races. Another bit of evidence is the vast increase in the total vote. According to reports, people were not particularly enthused by the choice of candidates, and the action of the press for the most part refusing to publish provable allegations against Biden and reviving the Russia canard also increases the stench levels. We can't know how it was done, but I think that it was possible that these election agencies had a way of figuring out who had not voted, so they went into a mass creation of votes when the chips were down using postal votes which will be difficult to verify, and that they already had lists of incompetent voters in old folks homes. This has also been suggested as a modus operandi of the fraudsters. When Biden talked about the "greatest fraud organization" or whatever it is he said exactly, that was probably a freudian slip by a borderline incompetent who knew what was up but forgot to cover his tracks. The other inference of fraud is that the total number of votes cast has gone way up in comparison with prior years. Trump's losing total will probably end up 10 per cent greater than the Harpy's winning popular vote total in 2016. Reiterating the fact that Biden did not have a significant traditional canvass operation means to me that they had a plan "b", fraud using postal votes. If they control the offices in charge of elections, in the age of modern computer systems, they can do things not thought about before, and, from how the entire thing is played out, this was no longer traditional yankee politics, but was win at any cost. The actions of the legacy press and the censorship of the social media and the tolerance of rioters and the refusal in democrat controlled big cities to punish them all reveal that anything went to prevent Trump winning. A victory obtained by such fraudulent methods sets a precedent. It is a sort of Machtergreifung (seizure of power: the German term is usually associated with the onset of the third Reich and is highly significant for that reason.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Nov 6 2020 8:01 utc | 235

Since there hasn't been an open thread lately I put this out here. Pepe Escobar was on Consortium News today talking basically about everything. Eurasian Integration, US selections, Deep State shenanigans, Ukraine-Biden etc. Conversation starts at 1:21:00 until 3:02:00. For those that sometimes like to listen while doing laundry or cooking instead of reading transcripts. Very enjoyable talk with some interferences (coincidence?) when the chat went silence.

Posted by: vato | Nov 6 2020 8:35 utc | 236

>> Is de US internally run by Mormons?

There’s only one “m” in “morons”.

Posted by: oglalla | Nov 6 2020 8:36 utc | 237

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Nov 6 2020 8:01 utc | 235

Most of what you're said is inaccurate. Everyone knew going in that this election was going to be marked by a high turnout. I have no idea what news you've been watching, but this was common knowledge. It was also predicted that the mail-in voting would produce different results than in-person in terms of when votes were counted by the counties, leading in many cases to a "red wave" when the in-person ballots were counted first or a "blue wave" when the mail-ins were counted, due to more Democrats voting by mail than Republicans due to Trump claiming the mail-ins were unreliable. So Trump shot himself in the foot.

And it appears most of Trump's court challenges have been mostly BS and thrown out by the judges.

The idea that fraudsters took over the identities of the elderly in homes in every county to vote is ridiculous. And mail-in votes can be verified just like in-person ballots if someone wants to spot-check. From an article on USA Today:


To prevent fraud, all votes have to be verified to be counted. States have different ways to do that for in-person voting, but by mail, the principal method used to detect and prevent fraud is by verifying information on the mail ballot itself, according to the Brennan Center, a nonpartisan law and policy institute.

To vote by mail, voters must include personal identifying information, such as an address, birthday, driver's license number or last four digits of a Social Security number. A voter’s remaining personal information is matched against the information stored on voter rolls, such as a signature.

States verify mailed ballots in different ways. For example, Alabama requires a copy of the voter’s ID to be included and either two witnesses older than 18 or a notary public must sign the envelope in addition to the voter. In Maine, a signature by the voter on the envelope is compared to the signature on the absentee ballot application. Likewise, Colorado uses bipartisan teams who compare the signature on every ballot to ones the state has on file for every registered voter...

“Absentee ballots, by the way, are fine,” Trump told reporters Aug. 13. “But the universal mail-ins that are just sent all over the place, where people can grab them and grab stacks of them, and sign them and do whatever you want, that’s the thing we’re against.”

But the only difference between the absentee and universal mail-in voting is that in states that use universal mail-in voting, registered voters don’t have to ask to have ballots sent to them. Regardless of the system, a person must be registered to vote to receive the ballot. And for any mailed-in vote to be counted, the voter's information must be verified by state elections officials.

Another article from The Brennan Center quotes these statistics:


Despite this dramatic increase in mail voting over time, fraud rates remain infinitesimally small. None of the five states that hold their elections primarily by mail has had any voter fraud scandals since making that change. As the New York Times editorial board notes, “states that use vote-by-mail have encountered essentially zero fraud: Oregon, the pioneer in this area, has sent out more than 100 million mail-in ballots since 2000, and has documented only about a dozen cases of proven fraud.” That’s 0.00001 percent of all votes cast.*** An exhaustive investigative journalism analysis of all known voter fraud cases identified only 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud from 2000 to 2012. As election law professor Richard L. Hasen notes, during that period “literally billions of votes were cast.” While mail ballots are more susceptible to fraud than in-person voting, it is still more likely for an American to be struck by lightning than to commit mail voting fraud.

As I've said earlier here, to prove vote fraud, you have to go down to the county level and examine the procedures, the known number of registered voters, the expected turnout, the actual turnout, exit polls, etc., etc. You just don't come in waving your hands and claiming everything is insecure because someone is losing.

Most fraud these days comes from manipulating the voting districts and corrupt voter role cleansing. It's hard to manipulate actual election results in multiple states on election day sufficiently to insure your fraudulent votes override the legitimate votes - and not be detected by recounts and spot checks.

Provide some real evidence of vote fraud in specific states and counties or don't waste my time with speculation.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 9:07 utc | 238

vinnieoh # 96

Thank you for your response and good luck to you. In my early years I worked strenuously to end the various wars. I was part of a team that assisted US soldiers to disappear from the war effort and take up residence in another land. Only once did I ever accidentally meet one of those brave souls in later years and we had much to celebrate. I also copped a few floggings from US MP's who had me on their hit list. But that was their problem and I laughed on into the sunset and made a good life of it.

I trust that the aftermath of this election will reveal mechanisms to push through solid reforms in the USA and that the divisiveness will give way to establishing a less fearful and fractured land for you all.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 6 2020 9:07 utc | 239

@ Richard Steven Hack

Can you provide the reasons for the counting freeze of all battleground states?

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 9:34 utc | 240

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 9:34 utc | 240 Can you provide the reasons for the counting freeze of all battleground states?

Can anyone - with actual facts rather than speculation and theories?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 10:04 utc | 241

So now Biden is officially the most voted for president in the US history.

And Trump is the 2nd most voted for.

To be frank, I can believe Trump, I cannot believe Biden.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:04 utc | 242

From FiveThirtyEight:

Nathaniel Rakich, Sarah Frostenson Nov. 6, 4:31 am
Biden Takes The Lead In Georgia For The First Time

According to the Decision Desk, Biden has now taken the lead in Georgia, albeit a narrow one — just 917 votes. However, the state’s presidential race still hasn’t yet been projected by ABC News (or other outlets at this point), and probably won’t be for a while, given that the final margin is likely to be very close.

This is certainly a big deal as the last time Georgia voted for Democrat for president was Bill Clinton in 1992, but we want to urge extra caution, as this point, as there is still more outstanding vote to be counted, and the margins here are razor thin.

GA Presidential Election Results – Biden takes the Lead
Biden (D): 49.39.% ( 2,449,371 votes)
Trump (R): 49.37% ( 2,448,454 votes)
Biden Margin: (+917)
Estimated: > 99% votes in
More results here: https://t.co/xlHf7GZUxJ
— Decision Desk HQ (@DecisionDeskHQ) November 6, 2020

GA Presidential Election Results – Biden takes the Lead Biden (D): 49.39.% ( 2,449,371 votes) Trump (R): 49.37% ( 2,448,454 votes) Biden Margin: (+917) Estimated: > 99% votes in

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 10:05 utc | 243

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:04 utc | 242 To be frank, I can believe Trump, I cannot believe Biden.

LOL *Anyone* who believes Trump about *anything* is delusional.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 10:06 utc | 244

@ Richard Steven Hack

That says more about Biden than Trump to be quite honest.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:19 utc | 245

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 10:06 utc | 244

RE Smith: At least he is half right. About Biden I mean. I don't believe Biden either. I can belive Trump is an asshole. I can believe he is a crook. I can believe he lies like he breathes, in goes the good air, and out come the lies.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:26 utc | 246

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:04 utc | 242

Trump explains Biden, all those people who came out for Biden did so to stop Trump. In any non-Trump election Biden gets squat like before. He didn't even campaign much. Pissing as many people as possible off all the time has consequences. Biden is a lucky guy, he is. Totally undeserving and yet there it is, just like Trump. It's priceless.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:34 utc | 247

If the main difference between a Trump-voter and a Biden-voter is that one is anti-abortion and the other one is pro-abortion, what does that say about the possibilities for societies to live in harmony with a large proportion (apparently 50% in the USA case) of fundamentalists?

Posted by: Mina | Nov 6 2020 10:36 utc | 248

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:04 utc | 242

That also explains the down-ticket no non-voting, they came, voted for Biden, and left. Get out before you get Corona.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:36 utc | 249

I love the sweet smell of irony in the morning !
So the black vote for the democrats will lose trump the election.
Brilliant ! There is a god in heaven !
There is such a thing as karma !
At the time I thought condoning the murder of black people by curupt racist police was a stupid election tactic by an evil fascist. Disinfranchising a large part of the electorate.
Totally distroying any concept or principle of law and order in the entire United States (disunited &devided)
With obveous negative consequences regarding US geo-politics. - no cred.
As for MOA ——— > no cred ! Sorry.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 6 2020 10:37 utc | 250

@ Bemildred

So you are telling me that people vote Biden because they hate Trump, this is the same rationalization that people voted Trump because they hated Clinton.

But Biden IS Clinton.

And now Biden is the most voted for US president ever, I don't quite believe that.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:39 utc | 251

LOL *Anyone* who believes Trump about *anything* is delusional.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 10:06 utc | 244

Others would talk about unlimited capacities of human spirit.

My personal exhibit one is "something marvelous" that replaced Affordable Care Act (marvelous and unaffordable? Some researchers claim that it refers to a doodle of a stick figure of Obama riddled with paper tacks), but whatever it was, content and whereabouts are unknown.

Exhibit two are (in)effective and (in)sincere efforts to restore peace on Korean peninsula featuring putting certain Bolton in charge. But once the project was as dead as a pile of rusted nails, ungrateful Trump fired Bolton.

Exhibit three is expelling 60 Russian diplomats after being convinced by Gina Haspel with photos of dead ducks and sick children. Additionally, Trump not only hired this torturess (he promised more torture during his campaign, not ALL promises were broken) but he hugged her too (do not try to visualize that if you have hypertension or any other pre-existing condition).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 6 2020 10:45 utc | 252

Posted by: Mina | Nov 6 2020 10:36 utc | 248

The main difference is my blue colored imperial-neolib is better than your red colored imperial-neolib.

Posted by: J W | Nov 6 2020 10:45 utc | 253

@ Bemildred

So you are telling me that people vote Biden because they hate Trump, this is the same rationalization that people voted Trump because they hated Clinton.

Yes, exactly, that's why it's priceless.

But Biden Is Clinton.

No, he isn't. She is a much more pro-active trouble-maker and hate-monger. I don't like Biden at all, but he's a small-time crook. Hillary is nuts and she will sell anybody out in a minute.

And now Biden is the most voted for US president ever, I don't quite believe that.

It's "odd" all right. I stopped "believing" anything about US elections quite a while back, it's all a show, and they walk away with your money too, you know "contributions". Why are we paying politicans to represent us, I thought that was their job?

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:39 utc | 251

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:53 utc | 254

How do I regret not speaking german, but there is one word that I love for its sound and meaning, ZUGZWANG. That is precisely the name of the show named US Elections 2020.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 6 2020 10:53 utc | 255

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:26 utc | 246 RE Smith: At least he is half right. About Biden I mean.

I mean, that goes without saying - which is why I didn't mention it. It's amusing these Trump characters who come in here and assume that just because we trash Trump that we somehow think well of Biden. This is the kind of "either-or" thinking that most humans are afflicted with because they don't have the imagination to envision anything else.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:34 utc | 247 all those people who came out for Biden did so to stop Trump
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 10:36 utc | 249 That also explains the down-ticket no non-voting, they came, voted for Biden, and left. Get out before you get Corona.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 6 2020 10:45 utc | 252

Yup. Gotta agree with all that.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 10:53 utc | 256

@ Bemildred

Hillary, Obama and Biden are basically the different faces of the same system.

I find it strange that people can even distinguish them.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:57 utc | 257

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:57 utc | 257 Hillary, Obama and Biden are basically the different faces of the same system.

You got that right. Just take the further step of realizing that Trump is, too. The fact that he's on the "opposite side" is just a smokescreen. Republicans are exactly the same as Democrats - they just put forth a different facade. Both sides of "the system" are working for exactly the same end goals: power and money. The "grunts" - which is to say, most of the politicians - may actually have different opinions of how to get that power and money. They might even have different opinions on how the world should be run. But in the end, *they* want to run the world and get that power and money. And so do the people who manipulate them - the rich elites and the Deep State.

The only way Trump is different is that he's a lunatic narcissist. Everything is about him. He believes in nothing and has no philosophy and has no real opinions - it's just him. The Deep State can manipulate a clown like that fifty ways from Sunday.

Realize that everything you think you know is wrong. Realize that everything you believe in is wrong. Realize that everything you're doing is wrong. Realize that if you keep doing - supporting clowns like Trump - you're gonna die a lot sooner than you'd hoped you would.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 11:07 utc | 258

@ Richard Steven Hack

No, Trump is different because the media actually spends time and money to attack and censor him, and his policies make people dislike the USA and make it unstable.

You do not want a united, stabilized America where the media is 100% focus on foreign policies.

And now the republicans can safely discard Trump while retaining the Senate and even win some new House seats, and Biden/Obama/Clinton can once again excuse that they cannot do shit because they have a Republican senate, but they are 100% effective in waging wars and killing leaders like Gadaffi.

By admitting that Trump is lunatic narcissist, you give reasons to vote for him, because he's all about himself, and not the system behind the United States.

And no, I'm not wrong on this.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:13 utc | 259

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 10:57 utc | 257

They have many common features, but I have no trouble telling them apart. I don't particularly disagree with your arguments, I just don't think they matter when it comes to winning elections in the USA. I mean they should, but they don't, and it's been that way since the beginning.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 11:22 utc | 260

@ Bemildred

They should, which is why Trump is the 2nd most voted for President in the USA and I can safely believe that.

Biden himself has nothing to write for himself, except he's not Trump.

Thus I believe in two possibilities:
1. People hate Trump that much, which I don't believe considering he got more votes than 2016.

2. Fraud.

And I believe the 2nd one is the correct one considering how this Election differs than the 2016 one.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:25 utc | 261

201#

And Borat is naked and large on the buses in Paris and banlieue,with only a chirurgical mask on his genitals and a big ring on his finger with "Allah" written on it in arabic.Many busdriver have demanded retreat of this publicity,but anyone can see ,owthat this is just deliberate social engineering to get the banlieue muslims throw stones at the buses,to start civil war.

Posted by: willie | Nov 6 2020 11:27 utc | 262

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:13 utc | 259 By admitting that Trump is lunatic narcissist, you give reasons to vote for him, because he's all about himself, and not the system behind the United States.

It's a ridiculous concept. Yes, his policies make the rest of the world dislike the US and make the US itself unstable. The Deep State would prefer to not have that - in favor of their own measures - so they tried to undermine him initially - or at least the Democrats did. The rest was the usual Democratic vs Republicans sideshow. But the Deep State also knows that a ton of idiots think that voting for Trump will change anything. These idiots think they're "rebelling" against "the system" by supporting a lunatic narcissist. In reality Trump is no threat to the Deep State and its intentions whatsoever. Because Trump wants the same things they do: money and power. The only difference is he wants to do it "my way", like Frank Sinatra. But a clown like him is easily manipulated by the Deep State.

If he had any real chance - or even intention - of actually derailing the Deep State or "draining the swamp", he'd have been gone long ago. Putting your faith in that idiot is delusional.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 11:28 utc | 263

@ Richard Steven Hack

If he's easily manipulated by the Deep State, there would be a no fly zone in Syria back in 2016, and there would be TPP where Asia Pacific would be much strengthened against China, also in 2016, and the Iran deal where fake peace would be made while Iran will continue to be subverted, except even more dangerously.

No, Trump has consistently fudged his own foreign policies plan and replace personnel.

This show that he's incompetent but has a will on his own, thus even attempts to manipulate him ends up hurting both the Deep State and his own administration.

This is why Biden is in. The deep state needs a face, it doesn't need a troublemaker.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:33 utc | 264

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 6 2020 9:07 utc | 239

was it in Europe or somewhere else?

I remember end of 60ies/ start of 70ies as young apprentices, students and /or pupils we helped mostly black US - conscripts to make their ways from Frankfurt, Heidelberg and Bavarian US-barracks to Denmark and Sweden. We were and are still very proud to have breached each and every US and german law re war resister's desertion and thereby supporting the vietnamese, cambodian and laotian people to fuck the US off that region.

Posted by: thomas | Nov 6 2020 11:35 utc | 265

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:33 utc | 264 If he's easily manipulated by the Deep State, there would be a no fly zone in Syria back in 2016

No. Russia put paid to that when they entered the civil war. Obama tried six times to get a war with Syria going, and Russia blocked it every time. Even the Deep State is not prepared to directly go to war with Russia.

"there would be TPP where Asia Pacific would be much strengthened against China"

Not if the rich elites behind the Deep State don't want that because they do business with China.

"the Iran deal where fake peace would be made while Iran will continue to be subverted, except even more dangerously."

No. Trump did what Israel wanted - rip up the JCPOA. I have no idea what you mean about "fake peace". Obama only made that deal to gain a foreign policy win for his legacy, knowing full well that whoever followed him would tear it up.

"This is why Biden is in. The deep state needs a face, it doesn't need a troublemaker."

That part you get right. But if Trump were to win, the Deep State would still get what they want, starting with an Iran war and further strain with both China and Russia.

I repeat, there's no chance Trump can do anything significant against the Deep State, beyond possibly delaying something temporarily while they maneuver around him. And there's absolutely zero evidence that the Deep State has anything to do with the Biden win (if it occurs.) Trump simply pissed off too many Americans with his antics, and even a lot of Republicans want him gone because he's an embarrassment.

But you go ahead and believe what you want. As I said before, eventually you'll end up worse off for it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 12:02 utc | 266

From FiveThirtyEight:

Micah Cohen Nov. 6, 6:06 am
Where We Stand At The Start Of Election Day 4 (And Good Morning!)

For our readers who haven’t been up all night watching returns … good morning! 👋 ☕ ☀️ (OK, the sun is not really up yet, at least in NYC, but still.)

Where are we?

Biden has taken the slimmest of leads in Georgia — just over 1,000 votes — with 99 percent of the expected vote in (remember, the “expected vote” is an estimate — we think there are about 10,000 ballots left to be counted, but that could change if more military/overseas, provisional and cured absentee ballots come in). We don’t, however, think any of the networks will project Georgia for Biden anytime soon as the margin is just sooooo slim.
Biden is up by about 47,000 votes in Arizona with about 90 percent of the expected vote in (that’s about 263,000 ballots left to count). Biden’s lead increased by several hundred votes overnight.
Biden has a tiny lead in Nevada and Trump has a small lead in North Carolina, and we didn’t get any more votes from either state overnight. In Nevada, about 89 percent of the expected vote has been counted, leaving about 190,150 ballots outstanding. Almost all of those, about 170,000, are from Clark County (home to Vegas), the Democratic stronghold in the state.
Thus, all 👀 are really on Pennsylvania. Trump’s lead is down to about 18,000 votes in the Keystone State with about 95 percent of the expected vote in. That leaves about 160,000 votes still to be counted. And there are still roughly 44,000 mail-in ballots left to be reported in very blue Philadelphia and at least 30,000 in Allegheny County (home to Pittsburgh).

The upshot is that all signs point to Biden overtaking Trump in Pennsylvania at some point — likely today, but it’s really hard to say. If Pennsylvania is projected for Biden, its 20 Electoral College votes would make him the projected next president of the United States.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 12:05 utc | 267

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:33 utc | 264

Well I certainly agree the "Deep State" is happy to have Biden in. But I don't think that is why Biden won. Biden won because he was a lot less hated than Trump, who in turn, was less hated than Hillary. Obama was less hated than Bush, another high turnout. Lots of people were done with the Republicans after Iraq. In 2016 Trump had the advantage of not being well known. He is very well known now. Trump is polarizing, as they say, people love him or hate him. Trump drove them both, one side to keep him, one side to get rid of him. In ordinary elections here turnout tends to stink.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 12:10 utc | 268

The process is now becoming a game of chicken. Any operative that has the nerve to add large number of false votes to put the game over the edge will be an obvious first sacrificial pawn. So the counting has to continue with the hope that things turn out as could be projected at this time. No one wants to hurry it up with uncertain fate. The MSM outlets spouting their lines just look ridiculously clueless. Binden's backers or rather his operators, since he is just a senile robot, must be tossing the odds on positive investment returns or negative fate (though not really jail). I don't think it is within the grasp of Biden's mind to make sense of what his choices, if any,are at this time. At least Trump has some control over his own destiny.

Posted by: YY | Nov 6 2020 12:19 utc | 269

How do I regret not speaking german, but there is one word that I love for its sound and meaning, ZUGZWANG. That is precisely the name of the show named US Elections 2020.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 6 2020 10:53 utc | 255

It is political wisdom here that the best policy is to do nothing, that way nobody gets angry. But of course sometimes you have to do something. That's zugzwang.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 12:47 utc | 271

Trump has many supporters,more than his detractors would want to believe. He has many in opposition but, maybe not as many as those who oppose want to believe. You add the two together and you have record "turnout"? Even with the convenience of mail-in presence for turnout, how is it that the issue results in possibly going far beyond normal voter participation? What happened to the normal response of non-participation from lack of enthusiasm? The numbers are insanely indicative of non human voting. I can't believe Americans are so clueless in such numbers as to think that Biden is fit as executive material at this point in his deteriorating abilities. Forget likes, dislikes, and politics. If given a hypothetical choice of Biden or Trump, by recent performance on camera, for a role as POTUS in a fictional movie, as a director, which character would you choose to portray a believable character?

Posted by: YY | Nov 6 2020 12:57 utc | 272

@ Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 11:33 utc | 264

If he's easily manipulated by the Deep State, there would be a no fly zone in Syria back in 2016, and there would be TPP where Asia Pacific would be much strengthened against China, also in 2016, and the Iran deal where fake peace would be made while Iran will continue to be subverted, except even more dangerously.

Those are two completely different problems.

The TPP failed to materialize because there was a huge impasse between the USA, Japan and Vietnam over certain tariff exemptions. Each one wanted to keep the tariffs on the sector they were weak and eliminate them on the sectors they were strong. That's the great difficulty with these free trade agreements: too divergent economies will have polar opposite interests. That's why the Mercosur failed to become a free trade zone.

There's no no-fly-zone in Syria for one simple reason: the USA can't do that. Russia completely sealed Syria's airspace with their S-300. This goes beyond politics, as the Americans were forced not to do a no-fly-zone in Syria by a foreign power.

Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 12:58 utc | 273

Trump believes his own BS. His petty narcissism is on full display here. He really can't believe he is losing.

Sad.

The other side has learned nothing. After barely eking out a win over the petty narcissist in the presidential race they will soon be congratulating themselves, making excuses for their poor showing, and trying to get back to business as usual.

Tragic and outrageous.

We the people are still scr*wed - trading the kleptocratic fool for the machine screw.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 6 2020 13:04 utc | 274

Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 12:58 utc | 273

Yes, Russia has "escalation dominance" in Syria, this was pointed out to the Obamanoids, but they don't listen. All these little provocations will be ignored. A major provocation will be taken as an opportunity and examples will be made. "Talk softly and carry a big stick." Same applies in Ukraine, various other places we are trying to "challenge" or "put maximum pressure" on Russia. Dumb does not cover it. All those "advanced" bases are just handy hostages/targets in a real war, right close there and easy to get to. The logistics alone will kill them. We plan for enemies that don't fight back.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 13:15 utc | 275

Posted by: YY | Nov 6 2020 12:57 utc | 272

Zero evidence for your assertions. Yawn. I knew it wouldn't take long before the Trump conspiracy theorists came out of the woodwork. They can't believe their Savior is going down. Mama's boys crying for mommy.

Poster boys for cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 13:36 utc | 276

@ Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 6 2020 13:15 utc | 275

Being dumb doesn't eliminate your survival instinct. All life forms have survival instinct - intelligent or not.

The moment Russia put their S-300 in Syria, the level of the debate transcended intelligence and became one of survival for the Americans.

Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 13:39 utc | 277

From FiveThirtyEight:

Dan Hopkins Nov. 6, 7:50 am
Philadelphia Might Put Biden Over The Top, But It's Not Driving His Strength In Pennsylvania

All eyes are on a handful of states now, including Pennsylvania, with Philadelphia and other jurisdictions expected to report additional votes today that could put Biden into the lead. But if Biden wins Pennsylvania, it will likely be thanks to his improved performance (relative to 2016) in other parts of the state. And despite some baseless claims to the contrary, there’s absolutely no reason to question the trustworthiness of the vote count in Philly.

For one thing, voting in Philadelphia is overseen by a bipartisan group of three elected officials, the Philadelphia City Commissioners. One is Al Schmidt, a Republican. (Of course, bipartisanship is by no means a prerequisite for trustworthiness.)

What’s more, while Philadelphia is the largest source of net Democratic votes in Pennsylvania, Biden’s improvement in the state relative to 2016 is actually driven by other jurisdictions. In 2016, Clinton won about 584,000 votes in the city to Trump’s nearly 109,000, a pro-Democratic vote margin of about 475,000. With nearly 122,000 votes as of 7 a.m. Friday morning, Trump has already won more votes in Philadelphia than he had in 2016. While Biden could wind up besting Clinton’s vote total in the city once the counting is done, he hasn’t yet, and there’s no guarantee he will. What that means is that Biden’s strengthening position in Pennsylvania isn’t powered by Philadelphia; while the timing of vote counting — dictated by the state’s Republican legislators — has put Philadelphia in the position to potentially put Biden ahead of Trump, Biden’s strong performance relative to Clinton is actually driven by other parts of the state.

First, consider York County, a GOP stronghold in south-central Pennsylvania. In 2016, Trump bested Clinton by about 60,000 votes in the county. As of this morning, though, Trump was winning York by just under 58,000, and that margin may narrow further with provisional ballots.

Or better yet, consider Montgomery County, home to the Main Line suburbs just outside Philadelphia. In 2016, Montgomery gave Clinton a net of over 93,000 votes over Trump. But as of this Friday morning, the county’s vote stood to give Biden at least 130,000 over Trump. Mitch McConnell said that the election showed GOP weakness in the suburbs. And he was right.

So Democrats’ improving fortunes aren’t driven by Philadelphia but by other parts of the state. These facts are especially key in light of the allegations that “bad things happen in Philadelphia,” a claim Trump made in the first presidential debate, weeks before the vote counting began. So when GOP senators, including Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz, baselessly allege that there are improprieties in Philadelphia’s vote count, they are undermining the election’s integrity in service of a factless narrative.

In 2016, one straightforward way to see the legitimacy of Trump’s victory in Pennsylvania was to observe that similar trends were afoot across demographically similar counties here and elsewhere. In 2016, for instance, many upstate New York counties showed the same pro-GOP shift that put Trump over the top here in Pennsylvania. The same is true today. In tilting slightly Democratic relative to 2016, with suburb-powered shifts, Pennsylvania is tracking with broader national trends. And like 2016, I see no reason to question the legitimacy of the count.

Micah Cohen Nov. 6, 8:02 am

An update on Georgia from our colleagues at ABC News. Biden’s lead still stands at +1,096 votes. But Gabriel Sterling, the statewide voting systems implementation manager, joined “Good Morning America” and said that there were at least 8,197 votes still outstanding. This includes at least 4,800 ballots from Gwinnett County, which has trended blue and is likely to add to Biden’s margin.

But note, that figure does not include provisional ballots, potential absentee ballot cures or military and overseas ballots. The deadline to verify provisional ballots/cure absentee ballots is today, as is the deadline for military/overseas ballots to be returned, as long as they were postmarked by Election Day. (Sterling said the maximum number of military/overseas ballots that could come in is 8,899.)

“When we know the outcome of this election, we’re going to have an audit afterwards and we have a very good likelihood that it’s going to be within a half of a percentage,” Sterling said. “Under our laws, whoever comes in second in this election [in Georgia], they can request a recount.”

Clare Malone Nov. 6, 8:19 am
Happy Friday, dear readers. In a different kind of election news, the U.S. Office of Special Counsel is apparently opening an investigation into whether the Trump campaign violated the Hatch Act by using federal property for campaign events, including the use of the Old Executive Office Building as a campaign command center of sorts.

RSH Take: Heh, how soon they turn on the losers! Before this is over, Trump will likely be facing all kinds of Federal criminal investigations. Nothing would make me happier than to see Trump frog-marched into the same Federal prison I was in. LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 13:42 utc | 278

Zero evidence for your assertions. Yawn.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 13:36 utc | 276
------
RSH, you could not be more wrong. Before I stopped reading NYT, I read a brilliant opinion piece by an Estonian scientist about the proper attitude concerning Russian evil doings. The lack of convincing evidence (a) confirms what we knew all along, that Russians are masters at covering and muddying their track (b) focusing on that makes Putin happy.

Incidentally, a major part of opioid epidemic stems from the feeling of despondency felt by people who imagine Putin being happy.

That can be applied to other realms. Demoncratic agents are masters in covering their tracks, unlike more honestly disposed Republicans, which explains why the only proven operation manipulating mailed votes on a larger scale (sufficient to alter results in a marginal Congressional district) was done for a. Republican. And a morbid focus on that will make Democrats happy. Which explains another part of opioid epidemic.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 6 2020 14:30 utc | 279

Apparently it's over... Biden took Pennsylvania. So Nevada, North Carolina, Georgia, and Arizona no longer matter.

Nate Silver Nov. 6, 8:56 am
Decision Desk HQ has called the race for Biden. Good for them, because you could have called this thing last night.
Decision Desk HQ projects that @JoeBiden has won Pennsylvania and its 20 electoral college votes for a total of 273.
Joe Biden has been elected the 46th President of the United States of America.
Race called at 11-06 08:50 AM EST
All Results: https://t.co/BgcQsEyt3j
— Decision Desk HQ (@DecisionDeskHQ) November 6, 2020

Nate Silver Nov. 6, 8:56 am
Now it’s just a matter of when the networks decide to make a call. Trump has no path back in Pennsylvania. The outcome is not in doubt.

Geoffrey Skelley Nov. 6, 8:55 am
Those super-blue mail-in votes in strongly Democratic Philadelphia put Biden into the lead in Pennsylvania. There were around 31,000 in the new tranche being reported, and of those, around 87 percent went for Biden.

Dan Hopkins Nov. 6, 8:52 am
And Philadelphia has updated its vote tally. Trump’s statewide margin stood at 18,049 as of 8 a.m., but now Biden has grown his lead in Philadelphia by 23,636, taking the lead in Pennsylvania.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 14:41 utc | 280

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 6 2020 14:30 utc | 279

Heh, yes, you're absolutely right. I must concede. Now let's see if Trump does. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 6 2020 14:54 utc | 281

jaye @ 110
Thanks for the link to the Tom Nichols piece in the Atlantic.

Sadly, the voters who said in 2016 that they chose Trump because they thought he was “just like them” turned out to be right. Now, by picking him again, those voters are showing that they are just like him: angry, spoiled, racially resentful, aggrieved, and willing to die rather than ever admit that they were wrong.

I'm so glad I read that. Now I know that, as Jimmy Dore says, it's not the fault of the people with power. It's all voters' fault!

Posted by: Gene Poole | Nov 6 2020 17:33 utc | 282

@ Richard Steven Hack & vk

Yeah, the mighty S-300 system that weren't fired once and failed to stop the Israeli bombing of Damascus. Oh please, Syria was being destroyed when Obama was in office and it was Trump's incompetence that helped Assad regain most of his countries.

The TPP was also first stripped off by Trump and made it essentially powerless when Japan, Vietnam and Australia tried to do it alone. Trump practically ruined the Asian pivot strategy laid out by Obama.

The Iran deal would have Iran having delusions about being friends with US and the EU again, despite the fact regime change/subversion would still be going on, except more effective since it would be fully supported by the MSM and any iranians deluded by "friendly" USA and EU.

Trump reveals the ugliness and hypocrisy of the USA for the whole world to see so the world can rightfully distanced from it, and now we are back to the "stabilized" USA under Obama/Bush/Clinton.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 6 2020 23:52 utc | 283

I looked for an interesting comment here, as the two pages of the following thread have been disabled - YY, thanks, I think you raise a worthwhile consideration, given what has happened votiongwise in the past. And I hereby admit that I did not vote this time around, as I did put forward on a previous thread, though I understand that my posts are not often read.

This will put me at the top of the righthand column, and perhaps b will notice and correct the newer threads. There are many posts there I would like to read but cannot. Thank you.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2020 0:28 utc | 284

Sorry, I did mean to repost YY's comment @ 272:

"Trump has many supporters,more than his detractors would want to believe. He has many in opposition but, maybe not as many as those who oppose want to believe. You add the two together and you have record "turnout"? Even with the convenience of mail-in presence for turnout, how is it that the issue results in possibly going far beyond normal voter participation? What happened to the normal response of non-participation from lack of enthusiasm? The numbers are insanely indicative of non human voting. I can't believe Americans are so clueless in such numbers as to think that Biden is fit as executive material at this point in his deteriorating abilities. Forget likes, dislikes, and politics. If given a hypothetical choice of Biden or Trump, by recent performance on camera, for a role as POTUS in a fictional movie, as a director, which character would you choose to portray a believable character?

Posted by: YY | Nov 6 2020 12:57 utc | 272"

It was not from lack of enthusiasm, but rather the disillusionment of having both major parties aligned with the plutocracy. I know of at least one other person that I respect who did not vote this time around, so it is a good question to ask. Thank you, YY.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2020 0:35 utc | 285

@ teri 144 "Only in the US would the same people who claim some mysterious Deep State controls everything, who claim that it doesn't matter who lives in the White House, and who say that everything is rigged nonetheless suddenly rally around an ignorant jerk who can't stand them and who did not do one thing to actually help them in the last 4 years."

I believe all that (except that the Deep State - which I prefer to call the Permanent State - isn't all that mysterious) and I voted for the SWP.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Nov 7 2020 9:09 utc | 286

@ 262 willie

Good. AND the little president is doing a very good job of encouraging the adults to hate France.

Posted by: g | Nov 7 2020 15:06 utc | 287

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