Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 27, 2020

Iran's Top Nuclear Scientist Assassinated As Israel Tries To Provoke War

Today the top Iranian nuclear scientist Mohsen Fahrizade was assassinated in a complex terror attack while driving on a highway in Absard, a small city just east of Tehran. An explosion stopped his car. Then shots were fired at him from two directions.


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Between 2010 and 2012 four other nuclear scientist in Iran were assassinated in similar ways.

There is little doubt about who is responsible for this attack:

Fakhrizadeh was named by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2018 as the director of Iran’s nuclear weapons project.

When Netanyahu revealed then that Israel had removed from a warehouse in Tehran a vast archive of Iran’s own material detailing with its nuclear weapons program, he said: “Remember that name, Fakhrizadeh.”


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According to the IAEA Iran did not and does not have a nuclear weapons program. More than 20 years back some Iranian scientists did an organizational study about what they would have to do to create a nuclear weapons program. But politics intervened and the program was never launched.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has since its establishment rejected all weapons of mass destruction out of religious reasons. Its leader Ayatollah Khamenei has issued a fatwa the prohibits any attempts to develop, produce or otherwise introduce such weapons.

While a terror attack against its top nuclear scientist can be seen as an act of war Iran is unlikely to openly take revenge for it. Doing such would only play into Netanyahoo's hands as he attempts to goad the U.S. into an attack on Iran.

The assassination of Mohsen Fahrizade does not aim at Iran's nuclear program. Its purpose is to assassinate the nuclear deal with Iran before president elect Joe Biden comes into office.

There are expectations, which I don't have, that Biden will rejoin the nuclear deal with Iran. The Trump administration had left the deal and had re-introduced severe sanctions against the country. President Trump retweeted news of today's assassination. If Biden really wants to revive the deal he should immediately condemn today's assassination. Obama did similar when the other scientist were killed.

There are still 55 days until Trump leaves the office. Netanyahoo will use that time to launch more provocation.

Posted by b on November 27, 2020 at 17:16 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: Grieved | Nov 28 2020 2:23 utc | 102

Thanks, Ramin is truly good at what he writes, he is very knowledgeable
on Iranian culture and eligion that forms the Iranian nationalism. Iranian nationalism unlike American nationalism is not expansionist, not about hegemony, superiority or exceptionalism is all about preserving their culture, way of life, it’s not exclusive or racial, it’s a potluck, everybody can and should throw his own in. Is like Persian language itself, where French word Mercy which was brought by Iranian students of early 20th century is now the most common thank you in Persian everyday conversation.

Posted by: Kooshy | Nov 28 2020 3:43 utc | 101

Don Bacon

The foundation of Shia is the hadith of the Prophet: "For whomsoever I am his Leader, Ali is his Leader." which established the Legitimate Spiritual and Profance Authority in Islam. The chief attribute of Sunnis is the rejection of this Legitimate Authority: "any one but Ali" was the mantra of Arabs atcthat time, it appears.

This is reminiscent of the hadith of Jesus: "On you Pter (stone) I shall build my church."; from which the entire Legitimate Authority of the Catholic Church drives.

Sunni Muslims and Protestant Christians have this in common, they have rejected Legitimate Authority and are in schism with it.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 4:00 utc | 102

Grieved

It is a common belief among the Shia that the Hidden Imam will emerge from his great occulation accompanied by Jesus.

To wit:

The Gospel of Matthew chapter 24 verse 27 and chapter 36 verse 37 as well as the Gospel of Luke chapter 18 verse 18

Who is the Son of Man who comes with Jesus Christ?

Son of Man being Imam Mahdi.

That is why all doctrines and so-called "isms" fail - they are devoid of Hope.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 4:15 utc | 103

@ Grieved106
Glad to be able to add something productive to the conversation!

I am inclined to the second, too "(2) the system creates its people and is to blame for consequences." ...although I believe it is fundamentally both 1 and 2, and that they form a complicated symbiotic relationship between system and people and people and system. It can be kind of a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" kind of question. Perhaps the determinism is of a soft nature, not creating absolutes, but strong likelihoods.

Putin came from a rotten system, but the Russian people seem to produce good leaders in times of need. One big question I have is if Putin can leave a good system in place that will produce more Putins going forward?

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 28 2020 4:21 utc | 104

I have to say that I have lost all respect for the Saker with his most recent article on Trump: Trump’s last hurrah?!

I think he drank the Trump Kool-aid on the Election Fraud business and his praise for that sagging vampire ghoul, Giuliani, whose best performance of the year was reaching into his pants on Borat and bleeding dye from his greasy hair, is bizarre and pathetic.

Then he contradicts himself by referring to Trump as Israel's prostitute, which he is willingly and wilfully, and that an attack on Iran would be evil. Of course it's evil, and so is your damn Trump! You can't separate the evil act and the man who pulls the damn trigger, Doh!

Ugh. He's just all over the map with his opinion; it's so freaking disjointed and the Giuliani bit...aye, please, he's lost touch with reality. He's all in the kult and won't let go! Yuk. He just shot his integrity.

This is what Trump doessss people! Everyone he converts surrenders their dignity and self-respect. Sad.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 4:28 utc | 105

karlof1 @Nov28 1:31 #97

Have you once stopped to think that the "system" in the 1930s was a Neoliberal System--the financiers are what put Hitler into office.

I think there are important similarities and important differences.

In the 1930's Hitler rose to power on back of an historic wrong - crushing WWI reparations. Liberals/neoliberal supported Hitler as a means of stopping the communist movement that arose from the German people's hardship.

The communist threat to the liberals/neoliberals was defeated in 1991. Today Russia and China are now both essentially capitalist. Western neoliberals are not fighting a mortal enemy but manipulating the public to fight a war for global domination (aka NWO). A world order that (they believe) secures their corrupt leadership for all time.

But it's not a Hitler-like dictator that drives this or an amorphous, faceless "system", it's a team effort by Deep State managers of the Empire. That's why pro-Empire policies never change from President to President.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 28 2020 4:29 utc | 106

When I think of that ghoul Giuliani bending over to kiss that liverspotted geriatric Zionist Addle_son's ring and Saker sinking so low as to praise even the slighest thing about that sleaze Zionist ass kisser...never mind. 😕

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 4:39 utc | 107

Do such actions hasten the day when Russia & China station nuclear weapons in Iran under Iranian command simply to end the escalations serving to prevent Iran from achieving nuclear deterrent that Israel has? Make that deterrence a fait accompli, as w/ Pakistan, UK, NK, France...

Paul Damascene | Nov 27 2020 22:15 utc | 49:

That will never happen. It would be a huge departure for China from their usual foreign policy. If China ever adopts such a hostile posture, it will only be over Taiwan. Russia is not interested in repeating the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Posted by: Ian2 | Nov 28 2020 5:17 utc | 108

This murder will boost the popularity of the Iranian government in the population at a time where there is criticism of the handling of the pandemic.
Israel does not understand the admiration of Iranians for martyrs. this crime will unite even more the Iranians against the Usa and its allies .

Posted by: virgile | Nov 28 2020 5:43 utc | 109

I do have a disagreement, Grieved and perhaps karlof1 as well, when it comes to the two attitudes you describe as alternates in your post @ 106. I will give what I think is the Orthodox Christian approach that to me is Putin's also, that there is more flexibility when it comes to systems, since those, inherently human devised, can only succeed or fail as they are used morally. Thus good governance doesn't depend on the system but on the character of those who rule. And the word 'rule' is meant in the same way as the word 'sovereign'. It doesn't mean kingship, though it could. It doesn't mean parity, though it could. It does mean respect for the law, but that respect must be on both sides - the side of the lawgiver and the side of those to whom that law applies.

Plato used "The Republic" to show that governments are like human souls writ large. I think that is true. The interesting thing that most don't see is that his dialogue doesn't end with the analogy of the cave. It actually goes on and on and on, into so much strange detail that most of his young friends, after making sound points and those being clarified, have lost the thread.

Only one, Glaucon, hangs on to the end while remembering the beginning as well. What are we to take from this? I take the "if you can keep it" from Franklin's response. If you can keep it. There is no perfect system. There are, if we are lucky, good persons who can take an imperfect, even vulnerable system and make it work, at least for a time, relying on the support of those who appreciate what he or they are doing or trying to do, while remembering, in the terms of the folk song, that they, the leaders, are only passing through. Like the horse race ongoing throughout the dialogue, they govern as best they may, and pass the torch to the next one. It's not actually about winning anything. It's doing what is sustainable. Goodness is sustainable. Evil is not.

Nothing says that our US system has to fail. The Russians have a good answer to such apparent failure. They went down, way down. But then, what? Something, someone... It was the legend of the phoenix, or firebird. They are living that legend now. A revolution without civil war, a renewal by stages, with the welfare of the entire people of different faiths a sovereign responsibility. China likewise.

And look, they are different systems! Iran too! Very different, as we see here on this very blog. We aren't all alike. We have different ideas. How awful if we didn't!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 28 2020 5:57 utc | 110

Hey Moon of Alabama. Trump’s Wisconsin recount brings more Biden votes
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-wisconsin-idUSKBN28802N

Posted by: Nick | Nov 28 2020 6:31 utc | 111

So circe is happy that amerika seems to be going to war - except it won't be, there is a much slower more deliberate game going on here, one which will fail cause Iranians are the original chess masters. Amerika needs months to build up for a large fight in the gulf - a few thousand jaded ex afghan grunts won't do shit.

Occupied Palestine bosses are trying to draw Iran into a zero sum game.
Many ask how is it that they pull these stunts in Iran, the reason is simple there are SFA Iranians in Occupied Palestine but there are hundreds of thousands of jews in Iran, the vast majority are happy for the refuge Persia/Iran has provided for them, unfortunately there is a tiny % who subscribe to the zionist fable and it is from them that these attacks come.

The Iranian government has always been careful not to do to their jewish community what amerika did to the amerikan moslem population following 911, but nyahoo & his greed perverted offsiders cannot understand that reaction so that they want Iran to turn on its jewish citizens, in the hope they will all turn to zionism. It won't work but Iran is going to have to find a way into its jewish community somehow - that is if they haven't already - in which case these murderers will shortly be apprehended.

The other game pompous & nyahoo are trying to proceed with is awarding the stewardship of the Al-Aqsa Mosque to the al Sauds.
That way the do anything for a dollar MBS will allow the zionists to use it as a synagogue a few more times a year.
Doing that would completely destabilise Jordan whose hashemite royal family had control of Mecca, Medina (Hejaz) & Al-Aqsa for centuries up until 1924 when at the behest of the englanders the sauds invaded Mecca & Medina using Ikhwan mercenaries (sound familiar?).
The kingdom of Hejaz containing Mecca & Medina was given to the sauds by the englanders concerned that leaving the kingdom free like the vatican city could hinder the plan to make the el sauds take complete control of the Arabian peninsular by maybe becoming refuges for the traditional owners of the lands where all the oil was, thereby making that resource theft difficult & a lot more expensive.

So they gave the Mecca & Medina sites to the el sauds then placated the hashemites by 'giving' them Trans-Jordan as it was then, to rule over. The family went from being the rulers of Iraq, Syria & Hejaz to the comparatively tiny area of TransJordan.

However their stewardship of a Aqsa is underwritten by an internationally & later UN guaranteed, treaty. This is what has always held off the zionists whenever they try to pull their 'dome on the rock' nonsense about some long rotted out wooden lean-to they lie & claim was there a few millennia back.

The zionists figure that if they can wangle saudi stewardship not only will that permit them to turn the place into some type jewish tourist attraction complete with casino, the reaction amongst the people of Jordan who have been viciously exploited by their englander imposed 'king' will be extreme & violent, providing them an excuse to invade then occupy it then ethnically cleanse it too.

Naturally Iran doesn't think much of the last major holy site getting handed over to the corrupt el sauds

nyahoo who met with mbs & pompous last week is desperately throwing as many plates into the air at once in the hope that it will provoke a massive reaction.

He is wrong, the way things stand right now Iran can bide its time & slowly sort this stuff out because they know that not even the most corrupt euro members of the UN (englanders) will go for breaking the al Aqsa deal with the Hashemites unless a really big conflagration occurs.

I fully expect most westerners to bitch about the need for immediate revenge when Iran knows exactly how time gives an advantage. Consider Lockerbie the revenge for amerika shooting down an Iranian passenger jet, Iran got its own back yet trapped amerika into blaming everyone but Iran.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 28 2020 7:38 utc | 112

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 27 2020 23:16 utc | 66 -- "You know how symbolically in US they fold the flag of the cuffen and give it to family, that means your loved one was sacrificed for the country. same thing, but without use of a material symbol...."

Great word-picture, kooshy, which only a bi-cultural person can give. Thank you for that analogy, which, though helpful, yet vastly understates the true depth of meaning that a Shia Iranian feels for death in service to his god.

Those sure-assed, black & white, win-lose, one-dimensioned westerners here shouting for immediate, hot-headed retaliation are mono-cultural, but they do not know that they are mono-cultural. They cannot yet understand the spiritual mind; nuance, win-win, long term thinking.

Not, unless they stop and listen to people like you and several others here trying to open up our eyes and minds.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 28 2020 9:04 utc | 113

Josh @88: "How is it that this kind of thing just keeps happening to happen when peace looks like it just might break out?"

I am honestly curious why anyone would imagine "peace looks like it just might break out"? You say "looks like" which suggests that you think you see evidence for this outbreak of peace, but all of the evidence that I see suggests that the risk of real war has gone up significantly over the preceding month, and will continue to increase for several more weeks.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 10:26 utc | 114

Debsisdead @ 112
I’m astonished !!
So are you now saying you are anti-trump ?
And are dead against this hostility and madness ?
Are you telling us you support Bidens words and actions.
You use this serious serious crises as a vessel for your own vain ego. You got the election wrong backed the bad guy.
And now you preach to those of us who have been right all along.
You do not have the moral high ground. Telling people trump was the better of the two.
————
A common mistake being made here is this ——— people here are wrongly focusing on what Iran’s reaction is or should be.
Iran is the victem, unprovoked ! Being attacked by a heavily armed crazed asalient.
The question should be ——- was that a one off attack or part of a on coming sustained attack ?
We’re dealing with Trump who is deranged and Israeli who are brutal murderers of inocent children.
The trump supporters here are deliberately trying to disrupt the truth. As cover for their nazi leader trump.
Iran will need to defend itself unless (a) Biden steps in. or (b) Iran can survive till the presidential transition.
Tyson said plans are great until the first punch. Iran needs to know that.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 28 2020 10:49 utc | 115

To add to my above ——-
Classic example — Look at what happened to Iraq ? Attacked by Bush and Blair.
If Iran follows the same tactic of inaction the same result will happen. Remember this has been planned for years, by trump and Israeli.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 28 2020 11:06 utc | 116

The American warmongers (that’s trump and Israeli lobby groups) are telling the public Iran is a threat. no sane person beleaves that. The only group that wants to bealeve that lie are the people that consider them selves the master race ! Entitled to rule the world entitled to do what they like to who they like. I say no.
Some of those fasicists are evident on this blog.

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 28 2020 11:20 utc | 117

Mark2 #115

You really are incapable of comprehending anything aren't you mark 2.
A while ago when for some weird reason you decided that my pointing out that biden was a corrupt fascist and a zionist, must mean I supported trump, I went to quite extensive effort to explain why I believed that as much as I loathed both candidates, there was a chance trump winning may be long term better for the world because yet another trump/rethug victory could give those remaining among the dems who wanted a better world, some purchase for their lever to get the fascists & zionists out of the dem party.
If dopey Joe won that would mean any chance of a shift away from neoliberalism & corporatism wouldn't happen.

I dunno why I even bothered to respond back then, prolly because at the time I thought your fervid support for neolib fascism was a misplaced misunderstanding of how politics in amerika work.

I see that your inability to understand anything made my post pointless.

I do not back orangetan or dopey joe, why would I? They are both neolib zionists more concerned about the best way to give amerika's tax revenue to the already super rich than give a goddamn about any of amerika's 99%.

But I shall repeat it again in case you didn't catch it first time around, orangetan winning would have provided an opportunity even tho it was slight, of the dem party ending its dependence on corporate $$$'s, if only because the tight as a fish's arsehole elite decide that there was no need to give anything to the dims any longer because they couldn't win a bar raffle.

I occasionally bother to chastise the circe creature just as I would criticise any tool of any of the current crop of political parties who, incapable of thinking for themselves, hand that job over to a corrupt gang of main chancers i.e. any of the so called 'parties' currently operating in so-called 'democracies'.
The circe thing is the only partisan spruiker who hangs at moa like a bad smell that cannot be shaken off. If a rethug persisted in dribbling that same type of partisan rubbish I'd have a go at them too.

I do not expect you to follow that line of reasoning, just as I expect that many will hop in to tell me that there is no chance of the dims ever getting their corporate $$'s monkey off their back. They are likely correct, but when the choice is between one corrupt neolib zionist & another corrupt neolib zionist, it still makes sense to back the one whose victory gives a small chance to ordinary amerikans - no matter how slim that chance is. Get it now? No I didn't think so.
Consider this the final time I shall respond to your stupidity.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 28 2020 12:02 utc | 118

Grieved @98, Haassaan @104

Systems are emergent phenomenon that arise from an aggregate of the material relations of individuals in the society in question with the production and maintenance of the physical environment of that society. "Environment", of course, being the sum of the modifications that humans make to the natural world to make it suitable for their own survival. This is the obvious stuff like shelter and food production, but also infrastructure and all manufactured tangible artifacts (clothing, cell phones, paintings, etc). The society's "environment" is not just what the society's economy produces, but it is the society's economy itself and the relationships between individuals that are dictated by that economy. As an emergent property of the economy, the "system" rationalizes, reinforces, and reproduces the relations within the economy.

There have been efforts in the past to fix society by directly manipulating the form of the political system, but this has failed in all cases. No matter how one tries to constrain the system with "constitutions" and such, the system remains an emergent property of the society's economic relations and so it invariably reflects those relations. This happens despite any details about attempts to make the system "representative".

So does the system create the people or do the people create the system? Both and neither. They are both the products of the society's economic relations, but neither has creative capability outside those economic relations.

As for Putin, he was formed in the wreckage of a society that still possessed real socialist characteristics in its economy. He is trying to impose socialist morality on capitalism (morality is also an emergent property of economic relations), but that is not working great. It is better than not trying at all, but it is a losing battle. Without socialist economic relations for socialist morality to emerge from capitalist morality will eventually reassert itself.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 12:07 utc | 119

Cracker @ 29 - You seem to think (?) that I was insulting Iranians - Nowt further from the truth.

This a.m. on the radio (NPR before it wakes up) the Beeb on its "Newsroom" spoke with their correspondent in Iran (an Iranian going by his accent) and he said that the view in Iran is that they murder was carried out by Iranian double agents - men who worked in some aspect of the country's secret service but who were pro-MEK/Occupied Palestine/USA-NATO...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 28 2020 12:57 utc | 120

Grieved @ 98

I go for (2) as well. But have the belief (illusion?) that it might be possible to insert an element of free will.

Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 28 2020 13:20 utc | 121

Hi Kooshy, FYI and other Iranians on this blog, I remember you well from the Leverret's blog 'Going to Tehran'.
Many commentators here simply want to see more blood, by reiterating that Iran must take immediate regenve and other BS, not worth entertaining them. They are All from the same mischpoke, they will never understand us.
Still good views by a few on this blog.
I am also bitterly disappointed by the saker, may be they bought him, who knows.

Posted by: Sammy | Nov 28 2020 13:26 utc | 122

I would not be too sure about those 55 days. There is a great deal of real evidence that the election was fraudulent to the max.

Posted by: lizzie dw | Nov 28 2020 13:31 utc | 123

Debsisdead @118: "You really are incapable of comprehending anything aren't you..."

Comprehension is not in the poster's job description. The poster is not here to comprehend. The poster is here to promote a specific narrative. Observing that narrative hard-sell gives me deep foreboding that my most cynical suspicion might be accurate. The CIA/"Deep State"/neocon faction within the imperial elites intended to launch a series of attacks and provocations on Iran over the coming weeks to try and trigger Iran's retaliatory "tripwire" before the empty ritual of power change in the empire on January 20th. Trump is foolishly continuing to play along as the kayfabe heel, possibly unaware of just how horrible the resulting war will be and how utterly despised he will be in the history books if the imperial elites pull this off.

Of course, Trump has been playing the kayfabe heel all along anyway, so it isn't a change in character for him.

We can easily see that the poster is spinning a narrative that the poster itself doesn't believe and is just a formula provided by a marketing team. Who here doesn't know that the plans to attack Iran were formalized in Project for the New American Century during Clinton's reign and had been informally part of the empire's objectives since the Iranian Revolution during the Carter regime? Why try to sanitize history to make it look like the coming war is only Trump and not long-standing imperial policy? Furthermore, what's with accusing Debsisdead of being a Trump supporter? How could being that wrong possibly be a mistake? Hint: It isn't a mistake. Tarring as witch/demon/Trumpist (same thing) anyone who challenges the narrative being forced is right in the troll farm instruction manual distributed by the neoliberals. The authors of that manual themselves all suffer from "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and so to them the surest way to silence and discredit opposition is to link it to Trump.

What is most frustrating here is that if this gambit works then the empire will get its war of aggression while simultaneously reclaiming the image of a champion of peace and decency. This will succeed in getting the populations of the Five Eyes and Europe on board with the war effort. Their relief at the removal of the Orange Ogre will be so great that they will give Harris/Dead Guy the Nobel Peace Prize even as they escalate the war.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 13:35 utc | 124

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 28 2020 9:04 utc | 113

Thanks, apparently Iranian TV had interviewed Shaid (martyred) Fakhrizadeh”s wife. She began by congratulating her husband’s martyrdom to the 12th Imam Mahdi, the supreme leader of Iran and the Nation of Iran. And again, from the Supreme leader she receives this message:

“I offer my condolences for this loss and my congratulations on his martyrdom to his respected family, the scientific community of the country as well as his colleagues and students in various sectors, and I ask God to elevate his rank,”

See, unlike in the west, which the family is condoled for loss of their loved one, there, families are congratulated and are congratulating of the Shahadat (marydoom) of loved one. Shahadat in Shia for religion “in the road to god” is the most elevated religious position.

Most of streets in the entire Iran’s large and small cities are named after the local martyrs, who died for Iran’s causes, mostly in the Iran Iraq war. One wonders how and who would be fool to go to war with this collective national mentality.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 13:38 utc | 125

http://www.circeandmark2arebothwhinylittlebitches.com/
:)

Posted by: JoeG | Nov 28 2020 13:42 utc | 126

@118 Debsisdead

it still makes sense to back the one whose victory gives a small chance to ordinary amerikans - no matter how slim that chance is. Get it now? No I didn't think so. Consider this the final time I shall respond to your stupidity. it still makes sense to back the one whose victory gives a small chance to ordinary amerikans - no matter how slim that chance is. Get it now? No I didn't think so. Consider this the final time I shall respond to your stupidity.

Are you Hoarsewhisperer by another name? God that's a bunch of disingenuous/ delusional hoarseshit!

So lemme get this straight, you care more about the slim chance Americans have with a billionaire who wants to destroy healthcare and gave tax breaks to billionaires like him and was creating a police state to crush any kind of insurrection, because why? You think Progressive Dems would rise up and revolt, when half the country is centrist and one-quarter radical right and neither would support that revolt and Trump would put it down in an instant! What are you drinking? Oh yeah, I forgot, the cult kool-aid.

And furthermore, that slim risk is worth war with Iran and the Palestinians getting screwed out of everything and living with Apartheid forever?

Consider this the final time I shall respond to your stupidity. Aaaah, who caaares! Tool is you and Mark2 is lucky not to have to ever deal with your condescension again.

High-five Mark2! Good on you.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 13:42 utc | 127

ran Top Nuclear Scientist Killed in Attack

Posted by: kombizz | Nov 28 2020 13:48 utc | 128

One day before a Mossad agent, the Australian More Gilbert was swapped against 3 Iranian businessman kept captured in Thailand. This is the point making this assassination twice bitter for Iranians. I agree Iran is not going to demonstrate a reflex reaction to this, however I couldn’t imagine that they not pay back hard for this one.
Posted by: Framarz | Nov 27 2020 17:24 utc | 1

That's not quite correct. The attack on Iran's Nuke scientist occurred (roughly) 12 hours after the Oz.gov plane, with Ms More-Gilbert on board, landed in Oz. The More-Gibert story became news in Oz as soon as her release from Iran had been secured, but about a day before she actually set foot in Oz.

If the espionage movies I watch, and the spy stories I read, are correct, then an exchanged spook isn't formally "free" until he or she is in the custody of Friendly Folks in the Homeland. That's what makes the timing of the murder in Iran so suspicious.

The "Official" story in Oz is that Christian Zionist PM, Top Secret Scum Mo, aka Mr Glib, negotiated the swap deal and used an Oz.gov airliner to do the transportation (which included flying between Thailand and Tehran TWICE).

One doesn't need to be Albert Einstein to figure out that "Israel" with the US Swamp's approval(?) initiated this prisoner swap, not Iran. Scum Mo licks "Israeli" & Swamp boots. His Swamp bootlicking is eviscerating Oz's Trading relationship with China, and God only knows what damage his "Israeli" bootlicking is causing.

Of course we'll never know for certain, because Top Secret Scum Mo is being as delightfully vague about this plot as he his about everything else he lies, glibly, about. But imo Scum Mo and his henchmen have blood on their hands over this cowardly murder.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 28 2020 14:59 utc | 129

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 28 2020 10:49 utc | 115
Iran will need to defend itself unless (a) Biden steps in. or (b) Iran can survive till the presidential transition.
Tyson said plans are great until the first punch. Iran needs to know that.
1- Why Iran would need or should expect Biden to step in to help Iran? As b supposed Brannen twit was probably triggered by Biden team, but that was not to help Iran, Brannen is known to be a Saudi butt leaker his twit was to help Biden, it was asking Iran not disturb Biden’s inauguration. Biden or any American policy maker has no love for Iran ever since left the American umbrella in 1979.

2-Why you think Iran would need to survive in this perceived American set timeline of 55 days, Iran has survived a continued war of aggression for 42 years and has progressed in every which way you can think. As matter of numbers and facts Iran is in every which way one can think ,was and is the region’s supper power that is what is worrying US and her satrapies in Israel and KSA and likes. IMO Iran and her allies, most broadly the residence south nations, including Russia and China are hoping if this remaining 55 days can be expanded as much as possible, meaning the US remains in an indecision unstable indefinite stage of regime change.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 15:12 utc | 130

Kooshy @ 130
I hope you are right and I am wrong.
If you are wrong Iran will suffer.
If I am wrong less so.
But I respect your on the ground knowledge.
Trump is a mad man in a corner, Biden just greedy. Which do we choose ?
————-
And thanks for your perspicacity Circe !

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 28 2020 15:37 utc | 131

Posted by: Sammy | Nov 28 2020 13:26 utc | 122

Hello to another Going to Tehran veteran!

Haven't heard from Flynt or Hillary Leverett in years (I don't listen to any legacy media); any idea what they are up to?

Agree: Kooshy's insight is important, especially in that it demonstrates the different thinking systems (Weltanschauung) of American-west vs Persian.

Regarding an earlier comment that Iran has (proportionally) more than twice as many STEM graduates as US, and even edges out China and Russia: It's intriguing to recognize that the parents of Iran's present crop of STEM graduates may have been part of the largest group of foreigners who were students in USA's best universities.

Posted by: ChasMark | Nov 28 2020 15:54 utc | 132

@Mark2

Here is a thread of tweets by someone familiar with Iranian military strategies Patarames @Pataramesh

The cruise-missile/drone attack against Aramco (Abqaiq–Khurais) was a latent Iranian deterrence asset, suddenly showcased No such Iranian capability was known prior to it Solely such latent assets can protect against terror attacks. But not if the enemy is ready to escalate

Hence the primary mean to protect against terror strikes, is not to heavily protect all VIP in a +80m population country
its to hold the opponents interests at risk in various ways and by various assets
Unknown- - targets - weapons - timing - location - directions - numbers

In this context: The assassination of Fakhizdaeh was ordered by Iran's enemies, because they believe the calculus of Iranian retaliation has changed during the brief transition period to the Biden admin In all other scenarios, such an act would haven't been worth the price to pay

The risk taken for the Gen. Soleymani assassination proved to be outside what calculated as a possible Iranian response. It was the media that kept the missile attack against Ain-al-Assad at lower profile than it was: An escalation attack of a nation state against an U.S base.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 15:57 utc | 133

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 15:12 utc | 130

"1- Why Iran would need or should expect Biden to step in to help Iran? As b supposed Brannen twit was probably triggered by Biden team, but that was not to help Iran, Brannen is known to be a Saudi butt leaker his twit was to help Biden, it was asking Iran not disturb Biden’s inauguration. Biden or any American policy maker has no love for Iran ever since left the American umbrella in 1979."

I just want to agree, Brennan's intervention is all about not leaving Biden a mess. If I was Iran, I'd be saying what's in it for me? I thought what Brennan did was quite unusual, he's been behind Russiagate right along, so to have him expose himself again like this makes me wonder why? I don't think he is worried about Iran's welfare.

But since any such dustup is likely to result in defeat for the hegemon or MAD for all, which is the status quo ante (just what we had before) there is no real need for Iran to do much.

I do notice that Biden and Brennan do both appear to be Irish. Seems suspicious, doesn't it?

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2020 16:02 utc | 134

@112Debsisdead

So circe is happy that amerika seems to be going to war -

What part of what I wrote made you think that? My roiling your superior quietude with my skewer of Jooliani, Addle_son and Trump on the same spit? You're so transparent!😉

@126 Hey JoeG-arbage

It got old right after the first time, and your damn link runs off the page and that ends up messing up the threads. Your brain fog can't decipher HTML? Bet you still use this 🧮 to count, huh, or is it your 🖐? 😆

***********
Let me share this hard-earned observation: the Occupiers of Israhell are mostly from Nazi Germany and USSR. Looks like they took the brainwash technique with them to West Bank, or was it originally their special skill to begin with?

Sadly, they get the rest of the world to mistake ass for head. Always remember that's how they seize power.

And since their best defense is milking victimhood, this time the revolution won't be televised. It will come from within, one person at a time making the difference: voice here, a pushback there, a singular take down; always hurting, growing their discomfort and delegitimizing with the truth.

The Death of Zionism will be by a thousand cuts.

@130 kooshy

Here's how I view Trump regime vs Biden regime in regards to Iran. Neither is a friend of Iran; you're right. However, Trump represents Nutcaseyahoo's fast-track destruction, while Biden represents the long-game regime change: opening the door to friendlier relations and Western influence enough to create division; a rift between moderates Rouhani, Zarif...and more conservative IRGC, Khomeini.

In my view, the 2nd option, although deviously contrived to exploit all existing weaknesses and foundation cracks in Iranian society and politics is the option that is least damaging in the short term thereby giving Iranians a chance within the economic gain that comes with a deal to protect and strengthen unity in the Iranian system from a Syria-like outcome of unrest that can be inflated by outside influencers/operators, so that Iran can always sustain its fierce independence and not be sucked in by the Empire's machinations while reaping economic benefit and stability again.

The other option with Trump and NutYahoo is seeking more immediate gratification via full economic ruin of Iran, potential war and complete capitulation of Iran heeling like a wounded animal in despair to the Empire.

None is ideal, but the Biden strategy buys time to strengthen quietly from within against interference down the road.

There is a reason why Ziofascist Trump and Iran's greatest enemy, Bibiyahoo and hardline rabid Iran-hating Zionists, are for the fast-track plan. It's because they believe it will bring Iran completely to its knees with no return to Independence.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 16:07 utc | 135

Kooshy:

"Condolence & Congradulation" was the formulation of the late Dr. Ali Shariati, in connection with the death of Ali & Fatima.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 16:13 utc | 136

No amount of pressure can force Iran to its knees, and who says a hot war with the west plus ksa, uae, zionist regime etc. will be the end of Iran, we have still many open accounts with the mass, savage murderers, which we could settle and must settle.
The west is kaputt, beyond repair and the covid pandemic brought it to daylight. germany has more infections than Iran with a health budget 100 times biiger than ours. Remember those fist fights for toilet paper, it's because you westerners don't wash you asses after shitting, you just wipe it 'clean' with lot of paper.
I have the privilege of owning several Panasonic washlets in my home, Toto and Linax are also recommended, good luck....

Posted by: Sammy | Nov 28 2020 16:33 utc | 137

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 16:07 utc | 135

From what I understand, Iran's Foreign and security issues, internal and external all are decided with majority agreement in Iran's SNSC, and then gets final approval by SL who he is constitutionally in charge of keeping the nation secure, this council includes heads of all three branches of government, FM, various heads of intelligence and military agencies as well as reps from SL and Parliament’s FR committee. I expect in next few days Iran to showcase some new military capabilities that US/EU will condemn and announce destabilizing, like a Mobil satellite lunch which is hint for mobile ICBM. That would be a typical first reaction coming. Something benign but loaded with message. Definitely Iran will not play in US/Israel timeline or theater till it assesses a hit that US will not respond. Iran knows without US support Biden or Trump none of US allies will dear to attack Iran, or any of her allies. IMO, a painful but non-terroristic plausible deniability is what Iran will plan to retaliate.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 16:34 utc | 138

Bemildred @134

Or Brennan's "butt leaking" tweet is intended to distance Biden from a series of increasingly nasty provocations planned for Iran and push the public narrative about Biden being a proponent of peace... a narrative that everyone here knows is nonsense, by the way.

My expectation is some increasingly severe provocations launched against Iran in the coming weeks. Iran will probably resist the provocations, but I suspect the empire's strategists have accounted for that and will have a pathway to escalation already planned out. I would say a false flag event that will be used as justification for a sizable cruise missile attack on Iran. Furthermore, it is likely that most of the cruise missiles will have civilian targets since Iran has the capability of defeating cruise missiles, but those defenses are certain to be concentrated around expected military targets.

If Iran can resist the terrible provocations that are heading its way until January 20th, then it will become dramatically more difficult for the empire to start its war. Reclaiming moral authority is of crucial importance to the empire, but that will not be possible if Biden/Harris start the ware.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 16:44 utc | 139

Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani delivered a speech on Wednesday where he called for the incoming Biden administration to reverse President Trump’s policies. Rouhani said Iran and the US could both take steps to return to the relationship the two countries had before Trump came into office.

“Iran and the US can both decide and announce that they will return to conditions on January 20, 2017,” he said. “This can be a great solution to a large number of issues and completely change the path and conditions.”

Rouhani: US and Iran Can Return to Time Before Trump

Rouhani shows his diplomatic chops. "Joe Joe Joe, let's forget about all this unpleasantness."

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2020 16:44 utc | 140

Just want to add for kooshy:

Zionists exploited rift between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas to dominate Palestinians.

The negative with the Iran Deal is that that they will attempt same in Iran, exploiting all weaknesses in Iranian government and society, IF they don't get their way now with Trump instigating war.

However, you can expect that Republicans will end up destroying whatever deal is made again after January, if they win the Presidency in 4 years with Trump or someone like Tom Cotton, and return to the brink with sanctions and acts of war.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 16:45 utc | 141

There's an old saying: he who can, doesn't whine.

Iran should man up and start doing something that at least resembles professional intelligence and security services and stop whining. Otherwise, their men will continue to die like flies to what is essentially a spent, decadent force (Israel).

Posted by: vk | Nov 28 2020 16:57 utc | 142

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 16:13 utc | 136


FYI, you know that shahadat (martyred) of Imams (especially ahal byet) are not congratulated, they are actualy very serious mourning days in Shia calendar. And I think, congratulating the family of martyrs of religion in shia goes way back than Shariati, it has a mystic non materialist Iranian dervish/ Sufi thought behind it.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 17:06 utc | 143

kooshy @ 125, thank you for this explanation. I will add that it is very similar to the Christian Orthodox way of understanding the death of a loved one, as expressed in the gentle and beautiful hymn "Memory Eternal". I hunted for a video, could not find a good one, so better not to try. In my little church it would be as you say, sorrow in gentleness and beauty.

Here is an expression of that in a talk at pravmir.com telling of Dostoievski's understanding as expressed at the end of his final novel where his hero is speaking to a group of boys after the funeral of one of them. This most gives the meaning of the phrase "memory eternal" which is sung three times slowly in slow, expressive tones, the last time higher notes:

Toward the end of his speech to the boys, Alyosha says this:

Let us first of all and before all be kind, then honest, and then – let us never forget one another. I say it again. I give you my word, gentlemen, that for my part I will never forget any one of you; each face that is looking at me now, I will remember, be it even after thirty years.(775)

This shape is, of course, the Orthodox shape of Memory Eternal: the present seed of actual love is already becoming the unceasing fruitfulness of memory. And this fruitfulness of memory is – in Florensky’s great phrase – “a victory over death,” not at all because we erase the dead in our mind’s oblivion (what secular culture calls ‘getting over it’) but precisely because we keep them so strongly, indeed so brightly present in our love. And Dostoevsky is luminously clear in his Orthodox understanding of Alyosha’s speech. By holding another in our love, we are becoming like God in that we are remembering the seed of God in ourselves at the very instant we are seeing the fully ripened fruitfulness of the other in God. In this way, the other begins to become our very self. Alyosha concludes this way:

You are all dear to me, gentlemen, from now on I shall keep you all in my heart, and I ask you to keep me in your hearts, too! Well, and who has united us in this good, kind feeling, which we will remember and intend to remember always, if not Ilyushechka, that good boy, that kind boy, that boy dear to us unto ages and ages! Let us never forget him, and may his memory be eternal and good in our hearts now and unto ages of ages! (Ibid.)

The point is magnificently clear. The fruitfulness of Memory Eternal arises always and solely from an actual person – here, Ilyusha – who unites in love all the Orthodox believers who sing his passing and have taken him into their hearts. Thus, what begins in isolative grief concludes in relational joy. Such is the shape of Memory Eternal in Orthodoxy and in Dostoevsky.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 28 2020 17:07 utc | 144

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 16:44 utc | 139

"My expectation is some increasingly severe provocations launched against Iran in the coming weeks. Iran will probably resist the provocations, but I suspect the empire's strategists have accounted for that and will have a pathway to escalation already planned out. I would say a false flag event that will be used as justification for a sizable cruise missile attack on Iran. Furthermore, it is likely that most of the cruise missiles will have civilian targets since Iran has the capability of defeating cruise missiles, but those defenses are certain to be concentrated around expected military targets."

Probably something like that, pending events, but I don't share your esteem for the empire's strategists, they seem singularly inept to me. Been so since the 90s I'd say. I think they think one step ahead, they think plausible is the same thing as probable. But yeah, it seems clear we are not done with the "maximum pressure" campaign. Pompeo's last stand.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2020 17:07 utc | 145

In previous 1400 days in office Trump has not shown he has any idea how to be Commander in Chief. The military endruns and flat disobeys orders coming from Trump. It is somehow different the last 55 days?

I have no idea who is in charge. Trump is the lamest of ducks. If anything happens it will not be because Trump instigated it. Israel doing crazy shit is the last thing anyone needs right now, they have been getting away with that since 1948 and before, no reason they should stop now.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 28 2020 17:11 utc | 146

Circe

The Iranian diplomats took the wedge of a " military nuclear program" away from the United States and permanently buried it.

Domestically, the successful conclusion of the negogiations disarmed those internal opponents of the government who attributed primary responsibility of the poor state of relations obtaining between The West and Iran to the Iranian government policies. Many young people in Iran were elated and jubilant, looking with hope to the promise of more productive engagement with the world, specifically the much-amired West, including the United States.

There was also the additional benefit of Irainan economy's unhindered intercourse with the wider global economy and the upgrading of Iran's infrastructure as well foreign investments in various sectors of the Iranian industries.

When the United States reneged on JCPOA and did her best to destroy Iran, she could not un-bury that nuclear wedge.

Furhermore, she dashed the hopes of tens of millions of young people in Iran for a brighter future; in essence establishing that the United States was the enemy of Iran ( as well as the Shia religion). And the Islamic Republic Establishment pocketed those gains politically.

On the integration with the world economy and foreign investments, that is also dead and buried: no one will invest in Iran for the foreseeable future, with or without US rejoining JCPOA. So that has no value for the Irainan leaders.

Negogiations with US, under Biden, would only be limited to concrete, short-term transactional items; e.g. enablement of u-turn dollar transactions for not enriching Uranium beyond 3.5 % and such like.

The fact of the matter is that, just like during Iran-Iraq War, Iranians have been pushed too far to come back to staus quo ante of 2017. Every war leaves a changed political, military, cultural, and economic landscape. The West's economic war againt Iran, and the Shia, is not any different.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 17:22 utc | 147

I've read thru the speculation of what Trump will do, but none on Biden. We're more a colony of Israel then a benefactor. So if Trump doesn't bite, will Biden's administration? There are plenty of neocons in the Biden defense and foreign policy team. The other hand the international finance use to want a deal with Iran. They got one with Obama, but that was before four years and Assad still standing. In the perfect world, we would recognize Israel is a rogue state. The original charter was a two state agreement, of which Israel violated. Finally everyone needs to get over being called an Anti-Semite. No one is against language, and Israel's behavior is a legitimate reason to just say no. You will be called a name too.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Nov 28 2020 17:24 utc | 148

Looks like the whole western media including Pro Biden CNN and their internet expert trolls like we have here on MOA, as I had expected are demanding Iran' needs to take an immediate action,otherwise she is incompetent, looks like so far the action of killing a scientist and an immediate rash action from Iran did not materialize. These guys have no idea of iranian mentality. After assassinating General Soleimani with massive protest inside iran and Iraq (you read show of support) it took Iran several days before announce and hit US bases. Iran and Iranians are known to be patient and calculated.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 17:46 utc | 149

Has China or Russia condemned the assasination? I have'nt seen anything. What will be their position in this case. Mybe happy to see US be draged even more in the ME and not them, or will they defend Iran in the case of escalation? I am realy not sure the Russian's position in this matter. Calling Iran an ally, but look at the history before like delivery of S-300 or finishing Bushehr nuclear reactor, they sure used Iran to get some job done for themselfs.

Posted by: AR | Nov 28 2020 17:51 utc | 150

Finally everyone needs to get over being called an Anti-Semite.

@Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Nov 28 2020 17:24 utc | 148

We are currently in the process of an overextension of the "antisemite" concept to englobe any expression of support for Palestine or the Palestine people, which thus will be turned into a crimethink or expression, and anyone supporting Palestine would thus be deemed, one guess, a terrorist.... This is your Orwellian New Normal. When they labeled Hezbollah a terrorist organization, in spite of not comitting any terrorist act since ages, and playing their political game, which they won, we said nothing..

Also, coincidentaly, there is a current process on criminalization of any expression against globalization, NATO, the EU, the IMF or WB, at least in Spain. Some alternative websites have been already targeted.

One would say that it is an intend to shut up any opposition for the future wars in the Middle East and around the world, including the developing against the working class.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 28 2020 17:53 utc | 151

William Gruff @Nov28 16:44 #139

  • My expectation is some increasingly severe provocations launched against Iran in the coming weeks. Iran will probably resist the provocations, but I suspect the empire's strategists have accounted for that and will have a pathway to escalation already planned out. I would say a false flag event that will be used as justification for a sizable cruise missile attack on Iran.

    This agrees with my thoughts @Nov27 18:28 #8 and @Nov27 19:47 @21. I see the false-flag as being some kind of terrorist attack that kills/injures Americans. Possibly coming soon after Trump wins a second term (which is now my expectation).

    HOWEVER ...

  • Furthermore, it is likely that most of the cruise missiles will have civilian targets since Iran has the capability of defeating cruise missiles, but those defenses are certain to be concentrated around expected military targets.

    ... I think a strike on civilians is very unlikely because any strike on Iran is meant to demoralize and spark anger toward the Iranian government not unite Iranians in anger against the West.

    I also expect that Trump will use the Iranian attack on the US base in Iraq as a template for 'punishing' Iran. He will offer a limited attack on limited targets. This will be a YUGE propaganda win for him and his Deep State and Israeli benefactors.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 28 2020 18:06 utc | 152

"..But it's not a Hitler-like dictator that drives this or an amorphous, faceless "system", it's a team effort by Deep State managers of the Empire. That's why pro-Empire policies never change from President to President." Jackrabbit

That seems to me to be the very point that karlofi was establishing: Hitler came to power thanks to a concerted effort by the German General Staff-Deep State- and the Presidential Office to give him power, despite his failures to win anything close to a majority support from the electorate. It was the liberal/capitalist ruling class which selected Hitler just as, in Italy, it had chosen Mussolini, to see off the socialist threat.

Having said that it needs to be added that such manoeuvrings, by the 'Deep State", involve considerable work and carry with them (as capitalists in both Germany and Italy will attest) enormous risks. The idea, that you constantly promulgate, that the 'game' is all decided in advance and that the powers of the ruling class will always prevail because the people are incapable of organising themselves into a successful opposition, is a central part of the ideology of any ruling class, intended to demoralise and distract its victims from exercising the power that their overwheloming numbers give them.
While you are correct to emphasis the cunning and persistence of the well organised ruling class, your defeatism makes you blind not only to the many errors and mistakes they make-look at Bolivia, for example- but also to the reality that they are expending their diminishing stocks of credibility whilst also continually increasing the proportion of those in the population whose interests lie in revolutionary transformation.
To put it in a nutshell you choose to be a smartarse rather than a thoughtful contributor to our collective understanding. And that is a pity.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 28 2020 18:08 utc | 153

Wind, the point is, Iranians actually embrace martyrdom

Posted by: Mahyar | Nov 28 2020 18:11 utc | 154

My condolences and congratulation to Mr. Fakhrizadeh’s family, and by extension, Iran.

Pin pricks I say. Pin pricks. This is akin to what they call brain drain out of Iran. What they don’t explain, is that, for every brain, drained, out of Iran, there is another hundred being made.

Revenge? No revenge necessary. Iran is achieving it’s strategic goal of kicking the empire out of SW Asia. Acts like, Suleimani’s murder and this cowardly act, will only hasten that exit. Orange man is unveiling the exit plan in his last days.
Mistakes like this, make the empire’s mercenaries — er — soldiers, feel more unsafe, where they go to cower in bunkers when attacked, and not out defending their bases.

What did they achieve with the murder of the other four nuclear scientists. Nothing for their part, but hundreds of Iranian college students that switched track to nuclear science.

All the targets for sanctions have now dried up, so, the empire has let it’s Chihuahua loose, to take these cowardly actions.

Yes Kooshy, few in the west understand Shia ideology and martyrdom (highest honor) properly . Not many understand when Shia scream: Ya Ali, ya Hossein, ya Hassan, ya Abolfazl.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2020 18:16 utc | 155

"Let me share this hard-earned observation: the Occupiers of Israhell are mostly from Nazi Germany and USSR. Looks like they took the brainwash technique with them to West Bank, or was it originally their special skill to begin with?"

This is bilge Circe. Any effort that you put into "this hard-earned observation" would have been better spent on a history book.

As for "the brainwash technique" this was developed entirely in the USA, largely in order to account for the general honesty and candour with which US POWs answered the simple questions that their interrogators-in the Korean War- put to them. It was in order to discredit the overwhelming evidence of the US war crimes, including biological warfare, which killed in the order of 3 million Korean civilians, that social scientists in the US came up with the nonsense that the POWs had been 'brain washed.'
Maybe a couple of simple history books are required.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 28 2020 18:18 utc | 156

Personally I do not fear "Trump war" prior to him leaving office. The forces are not in place on either side. The stalemate will continue indefinitely with or without Trump.

Their opportunity was lost when the West did not back Saddam with airstrikes from Diego Garcia and other nearby bases during the Iran Iraq war in the '80's. Back then Iran's defenseless were a shadow of what they are now. I have talked to a few Iranians that escaped that mess after fighting in a few of those battles. It was unarmed human wave assaults until the Iraqi gunships left and they ran low on ammo. Then the armed units would strike.

We all thought the war was propelled by the APAC types to just weaken Iran and leave them in place for a strategy of tension to keep the money rolling in though fear. What good is living in peace and prosperity to these guys? There would be no one left to bully and stomp on.

Another reason for these wars is to keep oil off the market. It is at times more important to keep oil off the market as it is to keep it freely flowing. If Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, and Libya were producing full tilt oil would be 5 bucks a barrel. Run a chart on oil prices and war. Imagine if they controlled the oil market and its prices in a unified fashion. The West's oil majors would need cases of adult diapers on hand.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 28 2020 18:32 utc | 157

bevin @Nov28 18:08 #153

... you constantly promulgate, that the 'game' is all decided in advance and that the powers of the ruling class will always prevail ...

No I don't. Perhaps your antipathy for me has colored your perception?

What I try to do is look behind the curtain. And I urge people to think for themselves and see the big picture. I've written that BOTH Trump and Obama are faux populists; that Sanders was a sheepdog (TWICE!); that EMPIRE skews all policy decisions and disadvantages ordinary people; etc.

One of the great Deep State successes is their ability to pull the wool over the eyes of the public. They accomplish this via the duopoly and a controlled corporate media (aka "access journalism"). People are generally unaware of this, and even smart people at moa often fail to properly take this 'reality' into account. I point out such rabbit holes and argue for more cynicism.

=
While you are correct to emphasis the cunning and persistence of the well organized ruling class, your defeatism makes you blind not only to the many errors and mistakes they make ...

Yes, they are cunning and persistent! But I'm not blind to their 'errors and mistakes'. I've written often about their failure to bring Russia into the Western orbit. A huge mistake that they only realized after the SHOCK of Russia's refusal to allow Western 'wins' in Syria and Ukraine in 2013-14.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 28 2020 18:36 utc | 158

@149

Maybe Iran should patiently calculate how to prevent their essential citizens from being murdered at the whim of rogue Western regimes.

Posted by: Wind Hippo | Nov 28 2020 18:38 utc | 159

Posted by: Sammy | Nov 28 2020 16:33 utc | 137

A bidet is the ideal solution, no paper to the water cycle and the exercise of washing one's orifice once a day, excellent sensation at almost zero expense and great for our health.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 28 2020 17:07 utc | 144

Do you observe all the orthodox fasting festivities like the upcoming Nativity fast? What kind of effect does it have on your physical health?

Posted by: Paco | Nov 28 2020 18:38 utc | 160

Ya Hossein.

https://thesaker.is/every-day-is-ashura-every-land-is-karbala/

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2020 18:40 utc | 161

This terrorist attack comes in as provocation when UN arms embargo on Iran expires.

Also the attack comes to offer a perfect cover up in the media for friday´s US #dollar crash to its lowest level in almost three months...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 28 2020 18:41 utc | 162

Western media personalities and reporters, and for that matter almost all of young second generation Iranian Americans, who grow up in the west after the revolution, and now are employed and working for western think tanks and or academia, even if they are informed and unbiased they still will have to conform their views and analysis with a set US state focused narrative on Iran, (like getting a job in NYT) this makes their knowledge or opinion useless for making a sound policy or truly become informed. They are just sprading US propaganda narrative.

Ever since Biden’s election I have read hundreds of articles, analysis and interviews, by so called Iranian and non-Iranian Iran experts on Iran, including recommendations on a way forward for both Iran and Biden administration. Frankly non coming from this experts or usual western reporters is even worth for to wipe one's ass with. Frankly, if you are not trolling or are not paid to troll and not have an agenda, you should read and learn more than posting BS analysis or speculative comments.

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 18:49 utc | 163

@147 Fyi
Agree with your entire assessment of Iran's pov. I hope Biden enters into negotiations respecting that realistic perspective and not to undermine, but won't hold my breath.

@138 kooshy

Yes, patience and timing always, convincing capability message, check, (the Russians are very effective with that kind of messaging btway!), and maybe risking oblique surgical response with plausible deniability? That too is part of messaging, as in, here's just a taste. Nothing too pretentious; and just as you describe, painful.

Unfortunately, Zionists, being the reknown cowards they are and having such low tolerance for pain, have learned to excel in 6 areas: 1) blackmail/bribery/influence 2) milking victimhood 3) hasbara/global media gatekeeping of false narrative 4) INTELLIGENCE 5) cyber warfare and 6) weapons stockpiling.

Of course defeating all that is daunting. However, Iran should focus on creating it's own firewall focusing on INTELLIGENCE and cyber security, and personal security.
Military defense is extremely important, but why do I capitalize INTELLIGENCE? Intelligence is extremely important. Zionists excel in this arena and that's a big part of why they get away with so much criminal behavior. Intelligence could have saved Soleimani. Why didn't he and government superiors question everything; trust nothing and always be prepared for the worst? Also, for the life of me I cannot understand why important figures in Iran's defense like Fahrizade do not travel always in armoured vehicles with security detail in a similar car given what Zionists pulled off in Iran to date? It just doesn't make sense. Iran needs to beef up Intelligence and Security if it intends to compete with Zionist thugs.

Nutcaseyahoo himself spilled intelligence on their plans for Fahrizade, issuing a veiled threat 2 years ago. Plenty of time to prepare.

But over all, UNITY, is the most powerful revenge. That goal is paramount.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 18:50 utc | 164

Posted by: Wind Hippo | Nov 28 2020 18:38 utc | 159

Sure will do, but at the time and theater and intensity of Iran's choosing not yours, Iran don't see no obligation or urgency to make you feel satisfied with her actions. That simple

Posted by: kooshy | Nov 28 2020 18:54 utc | 165

@ Circe 135;

Let me share this hard-earned observation: the Occupiers of Israhell are mostly from Nazi Germany and USSR. Looks like they took the brainwash technique with them to West Bank, or was it originally their special skill to begin with?

This is simply absurd. History and economic data don't lie: if the USA stops propping up the Israeli economy (which is already to the tune of USD 16 billion per year just in unconditional free money), Israel doesn't last another decade.

Israel is and always was an American post-war pet project. Always.

Posted by: vk | Nov 28 2020 18:56 utc | 166

@Paco

Don't know anything about Nativity fast, I am a Shia Mosley.....

Posted by: Sammy | Nov 28 2020 19:10 utc | 167

@156 bevin

You totally wittingly or unwittingly made my point. I'm referring to the Zionist propaganda machine that is churning full tilt til today since Zionism was regrettably invented.

What came first: the Korean War or the USSR, and the Nazis with Zionism tagging along? Brainwashing propaganda was not an American invention; Zionists brought it with them to America BEFORE Korea.

Thank you...for making my point.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 19:11 utc | 168

The empire's kinetic war on Iran doesn't have to be in full swing by January 20th, it just needs to be started. Iran just needs to be goaded into a response that the Mockingbird mass media can use to paint the empire as the victim. If hundreds, or thousands of US troops cannon fodder in bases across the ME are killed, and hundreds or thousands also snuff it in America's biggest military base Israel, then all the better for plotters. Sufficient damage must be done by the Iranian response that the empire's marketing division can create the impression of inevitability in the empire's counter-response. This provides cover for Biden/Harris as that counter-response (and the build-up needed to make it happen) will take place on their shift. They can speechify about "cooler heads" and "restraint" while smaller scale attacks are occurring on Iran and the build-up is underway for the Big One.

But it is important that the provocations occur while Trump is still in office so that the empire can feign innocence after he is out.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 19:19 utc | 169

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 13:35 utc | 124
You are one of the few reasons i still bother to check this blog.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Nov 28 2020 19:51 utc | 170

circumspect

There has not been any stalemate since 1979. Iranians have expanded their influence across 4 countries and are entrenched in 3 of them.

Once Afganistan splits into Khorasan, for the non-Pashtuns, and Afganistan, for Pashtuns, Iranians will be there too.

In an analogous situation on the Korean Peninsula, North Korea is presently armed with ICBMs, seriously threatening US allies, if not the United States herself. That was not the case in 1994.

There is no organized military force between the Iranian border and the oil wells of Iraq. No organized force can prevent Iran from conquering Turkeminstan. The oil wells of Baku are not militarily defensible from Iraian forces either.

Going by Korean analigy, any stalemate will end with Iranians arming themselves with hypersonic and thermobaric weapons.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 19:56 utc | 171

Why didn't the empire just lie and tell us they did find WMD's in Iraq? It doesn't seem that hard to come up with some dummy WMD's given all the other lies and efforts they've undertaken to obscure the truth. It's just never made sense to me. This kind of gets at some of the other comments about the empire not wanting to target Iranian civilians so as not to give Iran a moral edge. Why wouldn't the empire just do it and then lie that they didn't? They've done it before many times.

Posted by: davenitup | Nov 28 2020 19:58 utc | 172

bevin @153

What you point out is the entire reason that the bunny is here in the first place. The myth of the invulnerability of the empire needs to be maintained. Each of the empire's mistakes and failures must be recast as part of a deeper plan.

If the truth were to come out to the public that those leading the empire are not just tragically flawed psychopaths, but also incompetent buffoons, then the thought of building a new social order that doesn't have those kinds of freaks at the top becomes a whole lot more attractive. I mean, people will put up with having a psycho for a boss so long as it seems like he is doing a good job in a difficult position. If the psycho boss is also a bumbling idiot who screws up everything he does, on the other hand, then nobody will listen to him.

The bunny's task is to try and make the bumbling idiocy seem like brilliantly planned misdirection, as if it is really some sort of zui quan (Drunken Boxing martial arts form) in the political realm. This is done to protect the imperial elites despite appearances the bunny gives of being critical of them.

By the way, I await the bunny's rationalization of Trump kicking Henry Kissinger out of the Pentagon. According to the bunny's nonsense narrative Trump was anointed as "Supreme Leader" by Kissinger because... MAGA! Logic? None there whatsoever, and Kissinger getting the boot from the Pentagon makes the bunny's circle even harder to square. The irrational squirming of trying should be fun to watch nonetheless.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2020 19:58 utc | 173

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2020 18:40 utc | 161

Nice, but why is Saker an apologist for Ziofascist Trump? Too much contradiction and duplicity there.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 20:03 utc | 174

@103
You are a deliberate deceitful devil. You are misquoting verses and inventing others.

When Christ returns there will be no doubt as to who He is and of the divine nature of the event. Muhammad has nothing to with it.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Nov 28 2020 20:09 utc | 175

B, that is 55 days to Trump's second term.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Nov 28 2020 20:12 utc | 176

@165

The actions I'd like Iran to take is to protect her essential citizens from being murdered. If that's done there's no need for any retaliation at any time because they wouldn't have been murdered.

I have no opinion on how or when Iran retaliates for this latest terrorist attack on their citizens. My point is Iran is negligent and incompetent to be in this position at all. That's the root logistic cause--pathetic security provisions.

Posted by: Wind Hippo | Nov 28 2020 20:13 utc | 177

few in the west understand Shia ideology and martyrdom (highest honor) properly .
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2020 18:16 utc | 155

Us western Orthodox Christians understand, but sadly the number off us is steadily declining.
1000+ years under a Maria/sun/devil worshipping cult in Rome and the schism that birthed the protestant "feelz good" cult and a ever present search and destroy mission against Christians/Christianity have decimated Christianity in the west.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Nov 28 2020 20:15 utc | 178

99.9% of narratives are pure illusions, but war is what happens when a people arrive at the end of their narrative. The Iranians just seem to be gifted with a very long narrative, so they can afford to wait it out.

"A decade-long U.N. arms embargo on Iran that bared it from purchasing foreign weapons like tanks and fighter jets expired Sunday, Oct. 18, 2020" -- AP

"Russia is ready to deliver weapons to Iran but only after the international sanctions are lifted, the head of the Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation, Dmitry Shugayev, said on Monday." -- Sputnik News

It's now Nov. 28, and Iran's new Russian weapons will be operational any moment now...

So maybe it's 'Last Call' for any new war.

Posted by: blues | Nov 28 2020 20:20 utc | 179

@32 Circumspect.
If it is the case that 5eyes is now 6eyes it may explain the rather strange Christchurch Mosque massacre. New Zealand had a history of opposing Israel at the UN and would have been unlikely to support Israeli participation in 5eyes. A terrorist incident at home may have been used to provided an incentive to allow this

Posted by: Ike | Nov 28 2020 20:34 utc | 180

FWIW: one should never underestimate the ingenuity, patience and persistence of Iranians.

We have not seen YET what the retaliations wrt the assassination of Soleimani will be ( the bombing of the base was nothing - just to calm the population) and now with this assassination , l'avenir nous le dira if one understands French.

The Israelis or the Americans will pay for it in the future- may not happen in Israel or the US but somewhere outside their borders.

If I am Pompeo, I will watch over my shoulder once the USSS stop their protection on January 20th . Same goes for Trump, his kids and even his buildings /golf clubs - especially those outside the US. As far as the Israelis, Hizb'Allah will do the work for the Iranians.

Patience will be the moral of this story in 2020.

Posted by: Yul | Nov 28 2020 20:50 utc | 181

Islam delivered the ideological frames for the socioeconomic transformation of Arab Bedouins. It advanced tribal structures into slavery and later centralized feudal formation. Islam was used by Bani Hashem, the more democratic tribe supporting the poor mass, as opposition ideology, in fight against Bani Ommayeh elite and the usury. After Islam was adopted by the tribal centers across the then existing Arab trade routes, it was subject to a split. Islam of the rich and Islam of the poor.

Following Ali and his blood line is the foundation of different factions of Shia Islam. Ali was one of the most prominent supporters of social justice tendency in Islam. Husayn his son took the legacy of his father and added the value of readiness to sacrifice everything in defence of own moral principles. Husayn and his 72 aides were slaughtered in Karbala in an unfair battle under sever conditions.

When Iran was invaded by Arabs, Iranians with the more developed culture, a culture influenced by religion, mysticism, theosophy but also political dialectic, identified the progressive elements in Shia and constructed a national liberation theology based on Shia. The Karbala tragedy was ingeniously turned into a political instrument to mobilize and raise fearless resistance against the invader. Rituals were developed to make Husayn’ martyrdom in the monumental tragedy of Karbala part of the Iranian culture during centuries. From 9th century, the ideological leadership of popular movements in Iran were in the hands of Shia Muslims (Zeydiyan, Gherameteh, Esmailian, ...). Under Safavid, finally Shia was declared as the official religion. This was again a political move to unite and mobilize Iranians in defence of sovereignty against the Sunni Uzbeks on the north-east borders and Sunni Ottomans at western borders.

The mourning and commemorating rituals (Ashura) for Husayn and those martyred at Karbala are still today part of the practice by all Shia believers, following the original political objectives. A very strong asset against invaders and in service of national independence.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 28 2020 20:50 utc | 182

FFS, now you force me to defend the tds suffering murcan demoncRat(hasbarra?) circe vk | Nov 28 2020 18:56 utc | 166?🤬🤬🤬

(S)He talked about their ancestry not their stolen Semite identity, AND the occupying entity WAS NOT a u.s project IT was british...
And YES, most of the ☦pharisees/"j.e.w.s that are NOT j.e.w.s"☦ living in the zionist occupier entity are from eastern Europe, try to find nutty`s real name and see if it is from a Semitic language tradition or nearer what used to be Khazaria?
"ashke nazi" is not some weird nazi group, they are Khazarian pharisees and rule FUKUSEU+ and occupied Palestine.
Now go find a old map🧐if you find Khazaria in the Americas feel free to attack my comment😉
(And open a Bible if you want to learn who the pharisees are and who their father is)
I hate having to defend murcan NPC`S, but the truth is the truth no matter who spoke it🤷‍♂️

Posted by: Per/Norway | Nov 28 2020 20:54 utc | 183

The stalemate I proposed is between the West, which includes Israel. I did mention that Iran has some ability to influence events in a few areas of the region. Upping the ante with better weapons platforms will do nothing as that can be matched and surpassed in spades by the Western Powers. Their best bet is to continue to work with Russia and China as a block against the West.

Hence we have vast amounts of Trump Russia propaganda and Trumps economic war against China. The Biden team wants to go back to the days of working together. I do not think they will give up on their Russian propaganda.

I do not think the Biden team wants to use a carrot instead of a mallet against Iran because they are a bunch of nice guys. Something else is afoot. What I know not.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 28 2020 20:55 utc | 184

davenitup@171
I always assumed that they DID find WMDs in Iraq and that they all said "Made in America" on them.

Posted by: Shadow | Nov 28 2020 20:57 utc | 185

Mr.Per/Norway

Indeed not.

In fact, quite the contrary, across the West, there has not been any outreach, to my knowledge, towards Shia Muslims; e.g. White House Iftar dinners have not included Shia religious leaders.

The last time I heard of Shia religious figure coming to the United States, was in connection with a delegation of Iranians that included 2 religious scholars. They refused to submit to bodily searches, unlike the Sunni Defense Minister of Pakistan who submits, as a matter of course, and went back to Iran -I think in 2006.

Late in 1990s, if memory serves, there was an Ayatollah who attended a philosophy symposium on Dynamic Logic at SUNY at Stony Brook. I also have not read or heard of any meetings or exchanges of letters between say, the Arcbishop of Canterbury with any Ayatollah in Qum or in Najaf, or indeed with anyone in the Shia World.

There are no Shia religious scholars invited to attend any Track 2 or Track 1.5 anywhere. The West, I am afraid, is deliberately ignoring a potent political component of life as it is lived among Shia Muslims.

My personal experiences and observation across both Catholic and Protestant countries has been one of hostility to God, to the Catholic Church and a sense of dispisement, barely concealed, towards Shia and Shia Islam.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 21:01 utc | 186

Most of the input from political, military and security analysts in Iran point in direction of a pay back. A common understanding take shape, that it’s wrong to demonstrate strategic patience toward those behind this assassination. Enemies must be confronted with the painful consequences of such actions.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 28 2020 21:06 utc | 187

@181 Yul

We have not seen YET what the retaliations wrt the assassination of Soleimani will be ( the bombing of the base was nothing - just to calm the population)

Could you explain this a bit in detail and please supply all the instances where a US military base was bombed by a nation not in direct war with Yankee imperialists since their “independence”.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 28 2020 21:15 utc | 188

Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2020 22:41 utc | 55
& like-minded commenters (Team Huff-n-Puff) derogating Iran for failing to respond to "this, that and the other thing" visited upon them by the most powerful nation in the world and its vicious, amoral attack-dog, Israel.

I ask you, Team Huff-n-Puff: how have you responded when zionists took over your children's schools and taught your children that sodomy was a good thing, honoring their own patrimony was a bad thing, criticizing zionism was an absolutely forbidden thing, and acknowledging zionist supremacy was the existentially required thing?

Did you speak up?
Did you resist?
Did you offer a sober counter-argument?

Or were you afraid to take the risks?

Posted by: ChasMark | Nov 28 2020 21:16 utc | 189

Mr. circumspect

Better weapons cannot be neutralized by the West, there are such sciences as metallurgy and ballistics, and control theory that cannot simply be wished away; as one already observes on the Korean Penninsula or across the Russian Federation.

Posted by: Fyi | Nov 28 2020 21:22 utc | 190

"Nice, but why is Saker an apologist for Ziofascist Trump? Too much contradiction and duplicity there."

Posted by: Circe | Nov 28 2020 20:03 utc | 174

😂😂M`Kay, your tds is on par with rachel madcow😂

Thnx, i needed a good laughter and read one of your dimmest comment ever after being forced to defend one of your comments.
Sorry to say it, but people like you are The reason i sometimes think and say out loud that regular murcans deserve the shitshow coming their way.
I see no difference btween tRump and bide`t running your fascist shithole of a 🍌 republic.
It is of no concern which wing have the top talking head job, it is still run by the fascist malthusian billionaire club and zionist traitors on wall street and city of london🤷‍♂️

I would not dare to admit that i was willing to concent to a fascist usury system by voting for any of the low iq talking heads presented by that system btw, i would be to ashamed...

(i do not vote for any Norwegian political party, i do not concent bc they broke the social contract.)

Posted by: Per/Norway | Nov 28 2020 21:33 utc | 191

if everyone would stop responding to ''you know who'' we would all be much better off here at moa!

@ Sammy | Nov 28 2020 19:10 utc | 167... sammy, paco was addressing juliania in that part of their post which included you...

@ juliania | Nov 28 2020 5:57 utc | 110... julliania - i really liked what you had to say in that post.. thank you!

Posted by: james | Nov 28 2020 22:10 utc | 192

@ any who have responded to Mark2

This persona posts in at least two different voices. The more common voice is so simplified anyone could do it from a template. Or the old posts could be recycled, all the same. He claims to be a Brit, gets too much dead wrong to believe in that. Sounds American to me. Just not a real person. Or if he exists is so close to brain dead as to not matter.

Circe strikes me as real. She saves us the trouble of listening to MSNBC or reading dailykos. As absurd and extreme as she may sound there are many like her. Representative of her type, and it is a big cohort.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 28 2020 22:29 utc | 193

I believe that Iran needs to maintain its refusal of retaliation. Revenge is a meal best eaten cold, and the aggressor can wait as Iran has made clear. Besides the steep decline of the zionist $$ forces in the USA leaves their base in occupied Palestinian land within a stones throw when/if the time is right.

Meanwhile the OPEC alliance meets on 30 November and 1 December 2020 to discuss whether to extend production cuts in 2021. That should be a fun fest. The suppressed demand for oil in all western consumer nations remains and that has a severe impact on their economies even worse when all other employment/production collapse is considered. That circumstance can be influenced.

There is no logic that could justify Iran alone picking a fight with a 'nation' that bristles with nuclear weapons outside of any global regulation, that rejects all diplomatic and civilisational norms of a society equal with others and totally rejects any form of external moderation or self control.

This all points to a descent into barbarism if vengeance becomes the norm. Let us not promote that ignorance and give support to those that refuse the trap.

Per/Norway #191 Loved that post.

People going to Saker for good news are akin to those that spend their days raking in sewage tunnels looking for the odd lost jewelery.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 28 2020 22:44 utc | 194

William Gruff @Nov28 19:58 #173

bevin @153

What you point out is the entire reason that the bunny is here in the first place.


LOL! I guess you missed my reply to bevin @Nov28 18:36 #158. It explains why I'm here pretty well. But I'll add this also: anyone that's been here long enough knows that I've fought many trolls and dispelled many false narratives. I've been particularly hard on bevin when he has offered wacky commentary.

Anyway, I'm surprise by your comment because we actually agree on quite a bit. Such as the existence and malign influence of a Deep State and a good deal of what is expected regarding Iran in the upcoming weeks - as I explained @Nov28 18:06 #152.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 28 2020 23:02 utc | 195

I am intrigued by all the commentary regarding the return/reincarnation of esteemed ancient beings across some of the middle eastern peoples.

Perhaps the 'return of the blessed one' has a more ancient specific root in the mythology and current practices of the Dogong people. That is worthy of further serious study and it would be very good for the world if the works of French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen were translated to many languages and placed in a number of researchable online archives.

Perhaps this may contribute to lessening of the tensions in the world or at the very least removing one of the veils of legitimacy behind witch murderous nationalists conceal themselves.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 28 2020 23:07 utc | 196

Framarz @188

Iranian Official: So Far We Only Avenged Soleimani's Car, Revenge For His Death Will Be Greater

I can't find a link, but I'm pretty sure the Red Flag is still flying.

Posted by: arby | Nov 28 2020 23:12 utc | 197

uncle tungsten @Nov28 22:44 #194

I believe that Iran needs to maintain its refusal of retaliation.

Iran may not be allowed that luxury (forbearance).

Some of us have speculated about a false-flag retaliation.

Commenters that hype Iran's capability and willingness to retaliate are just preparing the ground for such a false-flag.

We saw the same sort of nonsense during the mysterious "attacks on shipping in the Gulf". As I recall, these attacks were about 9-months before the US drone was downed. Some speculated that the US had hoped that their P-6 would be downed instead of the drone. The resulting loss of American life would've meant war... and would've been blamed on Iranian vengefulness (aka "lashing out").

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 28 2020 23:16 utc | 198

The first time I noticed mark2 on this forum was when he objected hysterically to my pointing out George Floyd's criminal record, shortly after he died. Had he been posting here before that?

What I have noticed about his postings is that they seem to suit the agenda of the Deep State.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 28 2020 23:22 utc | 199

@196 uncle tungsten @198 Jackrabbit

You are both denying the fact that since 40+ years Iran has been facing a nuclear weaponized alliance, for the most part, outside and above any global regulation, on it’s own.
Question yourself, if Iran had the privilege of an alliance with such powerful countries like Russia or China why Iranian military doctrine is based on own deterrence and self defence without any outside support? ... Then offer your wisdom ...

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 28 2020 23:32 utc | 200

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