Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 11, 2020

How Trump Might Still Win

Trump currently seems likely to lose the fight over the election outcome. So far he has not shown any evidence that a significant extend of fraud has happened. While there will always be some votes in doubt the numbers in play now are not large enough to explain Biden's presumed victory. The courts are therefore likely to reject Trump's current challenges.

The media, including Murdoch's stable of right wing organs and the social media giants, have firmly declared a Biden victory and are thereby of no help for Trump.

But the Republican Party and Trump will want to keep fear, uncertainty and doubt alive at least until January 5 when the two Senate run-offs in Georgia get decided.

While the Republican incumbents are leading the race the Democrats will put a lot of resources into the state to move those seats to their side. They would give a Harris/Biden administration control over the Senate.

It is also possible that Trump may actually try to stay in office by manipulating the Electoral College process.

There are several more steps and deadline in the elaborate election process for the presidency.

  • Dec  8 - States determine their electors for the Electoral College.
  • Dec 14 - Electors meet in their states to cast their votes for the new President and Vice President.
  • Dec 23 - Certificates of the electoral vote results get delivered to the president of the Senate, who is Vice President Mike Pence
  • Jan  3 - Members of Congress are sworn in.
  • Jan  6 - Congress meets to count the electoral votes and declare the results.

Trump could, even without finding the necessary votes, (ab-)use the Electoral College process to shift the result to his side. He can try to block or delay certifications in certain states and/or he can push Republican state legislators to appoint Trump electors.

There is precedence for that from the 1876 election:

Then as now, each state must decide on a group of electors to meet with a joint session of Congress on January 6 where the winner of the presidential election is declared. The normal practice in a state where Biden won the popular-vote total would be for state election officials to certify the results and send a slate of electors to Congress. But state legislatures have the constitutional authority to conclude that the popular vote has been corrupted and thus send a competing slate of electors on behalf of their state.
The 12th Amendment to the Constitution specifies that the “President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” That means that in the case of disputes about competing electoral slates, the President of the Senate—Vice President Pence—would appear to have the ultimate authority to decide which to accept and which to reject. Pence would choose Trump. Democrats would appeal to the Supreme Court.

Alternatively, if at that point, no candidate has the required 270 electoral votes, the 12th Amendment stipulates, “the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote.” Currently, Republicans have a state delegation majority with 26 of the 50 states and they appear almost certain to keep that majority in the new Congress. A vote of the states would then elect President Trump for a second term. And again, Democrats would appeal that outcome to the Supreme Court.

In both cases the Supreme Court, with six of its nine judges nominated by Republicans, is likely to find in favor of Trump.

There are some variants of such a play:

If a lawsuit successfully stops certification of results in a state, legislators there could step into the void and pick a pro-Trump slate of electors.
  • The lawyer, who requested anonymity to speak about the scenario, said Trump's team now appears to be trying to throw enough dirt at the process for counting late ballots to argue that accurate results can't be ascertained.
  • The next step could be to try to get federal or state courts to enjoin secretaries of state from certifying results.
  • Any move to provide an alternative slate of electors could force the first real test of the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and could land before the Supreme Court.
  • Among the key swing states, Arizona and Georgia have GOP governors and legislatures. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have Democratic governors but GOP legislatures.

The Democrats are of course aware of such a possibility. They therefore play up the certainty of a Biden's victory even as the election process is far from decided.

But one should never count Trump out. Despite four years of getting Russiagate bullshit thrown at him he has managed to stay in office and to proceed with much of his program. He is also the first president in a 100 years who resisted the intense pressure to launch a new war. He is therefore unlikely to fold and to concede that he has lost the race.

There is only one person that could stop Trump from being successful with a 'dirty' Electoral College strategy. That is of course he himself. Over the last four years he has failed to select competent advisors. He will now need the best strategists and lawyers that are available. Jared Kushner and Rudi Giuliani will not do. Trump will also need the full backing of his party to put pressure on state legislators.  He will have to make concessions to get the necessary support.

Meanwhile we all, as bystanders, will have to up our popcorn supplies to sustain the next two month.

Posted by b on November 11, 2020 at 17:36 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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teri @193

That sounds great! I hope the numbers fired by Trump reach the tens of thousands! Had he done this years ago then no amount of election fraud would have been able to overcome his popularity and unseat him.

Trump needs to flush the shit out of the CIA now, though that would leave that organization completely unstaffed. That's no big deal because the former CIA orcs can run for office as Democrats (they do already), so they won't be long without jobs.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 11:56 utc | 201

@Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 11:43 utc | 200

I am thoroughly conscious of what Obama presidency was about and what the Biden one will be.
In fact, I am quite conscious what US Imperialism is always about since some 15 years ago when sterted reading and researching on it.

But, if you are aware, and eventhough they are probably even more conscious than me, governments being literally strangled by the binomy Trump/Pompeo ( notice Trump has not fired him...thus doing his foreign policy...)like Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, are somehow having a respite by knowing that Biden could have been elected, not because they promise themselves a life on peace, but at least that they are alloowed to breath and not being miserably exterminated by blockade.

What mosy of us are waiting for is simply gaining time, at least to recover from the hard loses out of the pandemic before Trump sends in his hit men Grenell or Pompeo to obly us to spend in weapons or expensive fracking oil when we need every euro to spend in helping families and business and to reinforce the health system.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 11:59 utc | 202

Walter's link made clickable.

Note the difference in narrative that the New York Langley Times has about electronic voting machines from the time of that post to today. This is how you can tell that they (Mockingbird mass media) are lying, and if you study the context of the clip you can learn how to tell when the Mockingbird mass media leaks truth.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 12:08 utc | 203

This article is fantasy. Im sure Trump and his fanboys would like it to be a real possibility. But there's better chance of USA controlling the pandemic than of this happening.

Even if this somehow happens. It would mean automatic civil war. I doubt civil war is of the best interest of anyone. Pentagon and courts would never let it happen.

Posted by: comandante | Nov 12 2020 12:14 utc | 204

Russia meddling again, with a little help from a Ukrainian that wrote his chef d’oeuvre in Russian, yes, seems like there is a place in Pennsylvania were people live over a century, and beyond, either that or a bunch of Death Souls voted. I really wonder, who among the DNC minions impersonated the great Chichikov riding along with Selifan and Petrushka, buying death souls, and to overdo those nasty russkies buying living ones too, if the price is right.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 12:16 utc | 205

@Gruff

We are aware, no worries...

Archives reveal that the US agreed, at the highest level, to "maximize pressure on Allende to prevent consolidation."

These happened always with Republican governments..for what is worth...May be Russia gets along better and gains more advantage with Repubs, than with Democrats, as the invitations to the US, even to Bushes´s home clearly reveal, not the rest of the world...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 12:31 utc | 206

teri @193

That sounds great! I hope the numbers fired by Trump reach the tens of thousands! Had he done this years ago then no amount of election fraud would have been able to overcome his popularity and unseat him.

Trump needs to flush the shit out of the CIA now, though that would leave that organization completely unstaffed. That's no big deal because the former CIA orcs can run for office as Democrats (they do already), so they won't be long without jobs.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 11:56 utc

The great story was that Anderson resigned from the post of political advisor to DoD, on the departure a number of people clapped, and WH demanded a list of those clapping, perhaps to fire them if possible. I got a total two relevant hits in Google search

1. Clapping for the Wrong Reasons is a 2013 short film directed by Hiro Murai and written by Donald Glover. The film stars Glover and features producer Flying Lotus, actor Danielle Fishel, porn star Abella Anderson, and fellow rappers Trinidad James and Chance the Rapper.

Wrong hit, Abella Anderson was not employed by Pentagon (all the pity).

2. www.independent.co.uk › ... › US Election 2020
14 hours ago — "A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a ...

The story in Independent is VERY THINLY SOURCED, namely on a Tweet of Bill Kristol, a “Never Trump” Republican and former newspaper editor, who now runs advocacy organisation Defending Democracy Together, said there was an atmosphere of “loyalty-oath” inside the Pentagon. In other words, a Tweet of a creep with a lousy "agenda".

IMHO, a good move would be to replace James Anderson with Abella Anderson, a sedentary job would put some meat on those thin bones, but I would doubt if firing political appointees would yield significant benefits. I read that the most resilient cockroaches live in Capitol Building, they survived an untold number of eradications are are immune practically to everything. I suspect that this is were political appointees are recruited, those creatures are practically immortal -- like Bill Kristol. Revolving door is their favorite form of exercise.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 12 2020 12:43 utc | 207

H.Schmatz @203: "...Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, are somehow having a respite by knowing that Biden could have been elected..."

The empire appreciates your naiveté, but the PNAC crowd has a great deal of lost ground to try and recover. Any "respite" will be purely imaginary, but for comfortable middle class people imaginary respite is good enough, I suppose.

Cuba has been embargoed for almost three quarters of a century. It is laughably childish to imagine Biden has any intention of changing that. Obama slightly relaxed travel restrictions (not trade) to Cuba for the sole purpose of infiltrating CIA/State Department "regime change" personnel into the country. That's all. No respite there.

America's embargo against Iran is nearing half a century. Promises of lifting the embargo have always been lies. They will continue to be lies under Biden. A carrot held out at the end of a stick that the Iranians will never be able to reach.

The empire's embargo on Venezuela has only just begun (as of 2015). The embargo will not be lifted.

On the other hand, the US State Department's budget will be expanded and covert operations and "regime change" operations will be greatly enhanced and accelerated in these countries. Only gullible little children can think otherwise.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 12:48 utc | 208

Piotr Berman @210

Well, that's all true enough, but it would still have been cheered by the American population. The American public would have "clapped them out".

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 12:54 utc | 209

I just realized how to spell Trump with a C. Circe. Just as divisive just as arrogant just as rude just as shallow

Mark2 Glad to hear no one will have to read your "thoughts" here anymore you cowardly fascist POS.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 12 2020 12:57 utc | 210

Rouhnai, as representative of the Iranian people, one of most strangled by the Trump regime.
He may be suffering also what Trump followers call so derogatorily TDS, as if the grievances suffered by most nations under this far-right presidency were imaginary...

This is an insult to our feelings and intelligence after being grossly harassed by Trump officials, and their Troy Horses inserted inside our nations, during four years..

This obvious disinterest for what others have gone through is made by people who have awarded themselves an IQ way over the medium score and have always derogatory words for anyone not supporting Trump, us included...Not LIKE that they are going to convince us, not especially through their ways..

YES, WE EXPECT CHANGE!

https://twitter.com/Ruptly/status/1326562834516377601

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 12:57 utc | 211

Did you see the video of Cuomo's daughter having two Freudian slips in one brief speech she makes?
First she says "we now have the first afro-asian female president"
Then she says "Joe Biden managed to steal - did I say steal, sorry I meant win! - win the election"
When people are not good at lying AND euphoric at the same time, this happens.
It came via telegram and is most likely not on an open channel, so I cannot link to it.

Posted by: Matthias | Nov 12 2020 12:58 utc | 212

@Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 12:48 utc | 211

Yeah, right, obvious, but at least some respite is always better, with Trump will be that elevated to the n factor, who knows when he would feel so reinforced into a second mandate, that narciso will grow to unexpected heights..
I prefer not witnessing, you know....

Wit hrespect Cuba, there is already a US Embassy there, ugly, yes, but one after all, thus no need of any opening hands to insert its agents there. Cuba has already some few dissidents inside who will sell their mothers into slavery in exchange of a bit easily achieved luxury, to not need expecting added US agents over there, as I was able to witness in the streets... and even amongst official tourist operators...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 13:11 utc | 213

People still believe the US is a democratic republic with fair and functioning elections ?

Simply astonishing..... Anyone that believes any election results handled by the uniparty corporate fascist elites and their agents is guilty of magical thinking at this point.

Not that it matters any, since the morons we elect are just PR agents. Someone has to stand up and dodge the rotten tomatoes. That's why they usually get paid off after they leave office.

We're all just along for the ride, we may as well just enjoy what we can while we can and just worry about our own integrity since nothing can save the world from the elite's delusional quest for absolute control and unlimited power.

This mass murder, fraud, and exploitation has been going on for centuries now, it's nothing new. Remember that inner peace leads to world peace, you can't have one without the other. Inner peace is the only thing you can actively pursue and control to any extent.

Be kind to one another and don't let other folks pick your friends or enemies for you.

Peace........

Posted by: dave | Nov 12 2020 13:32 utc | 214

Even running along with the risk of Trump´s most ardent followers/supporters making something big of this and inventing another conspiracy theory this time related to Jill´s links to the mafia or so, a curiosity, it seems Jill Biden has distant relatives at Gesso village, Sicily ( Italy ), the villagers are celebrating there on her behalf...

https://twitter.com/Ruptly/status/1326532635951329283

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 13:33 utc | 215

Good news, this open the possibility of judging US officials´ crimes there. r
Recall here that it was under Trump presidency that major disregard for this International Court has been expressed....

#ICC prosecutor says those responsible for 'serious crimes' in #Libya should 'face charges'#UnitedNations

https://twitter.com/Ruptly/status/1326487335349858306

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 13:44 utc | 216

Obama refused to launch a no-fly zone, which means refused an air war against Assad's government before Trump was president. That was the turning point. People like Gruff who pretend they're for Trump because he's anti-war are lying. Nobody who is anti-war assassinates a top Iranian commander. People like Gruff are still liars.

As for the alleged geniuses who pretend they support Trump because his incompetence is destroying the empire: Social and economic decay is destroying the empire and nobody can solve this with mere competence. The idea that things getting worse will end up making things better by leaving "us" the heights of power after the old regime kills itself off used to be called "heightening the contradictions." As in, Hitler will discredit the bourgeoisies and then we workers will take power. In other words, attributing this policy to people is a way of calling them stupid. Pretty much everyone claiming to play eleven dimensional chess in supporting Trump as an anti-imperialist ploy is simply lying.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 12 2020 13:51 utc | 217

Trump's head lawyer Rudy Giuliani gives an 11 min interview on the evidence for Trump's legal battle, and overview of legal suits and filings underway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xurB9TiCWE

Also, Simone Gao interviews (23 min) Republican National Committee Member from California, for his opinions on whether Trump be able to get the SCCOTUS to intervene on the 2020 election fraud issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQSNjwf8Hk8


Posted by: gm | Nov 12 2020 13:51 utc | 218

H.Schmatz @214: "...Troy Horses inserted inside our nations, during four years..."

I guess it isn't really the insertion of the "Troy horses" that some people have a problem with but rather with the words and speeches that accompany those horses. After all, the JCPOA Troy horse" was Obama's doing, not Trump's. Clinton was supposed to trigger that trap, not Trump. Would Europe have resisted America's sanctions on Iran if it were Clinton calling for them rather than Trump? Would Europe have rejected the "snap-back" if it were Clinton that argued for it rather than Trump? Of course not in both cases. With nice words instead of bellicose ones to sell America's sanctions Europe would have happily joined America's attack on Iran.

You've been getting "Troy horses inserted" by the empire for a great deal longer than four years. I would think Spanish people would know that as well as anyone else by now.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 13:51 utc | 219

Electoral College Trumped

Posted by: snake | Nov 12 2020 13:53 utc | 220

@ Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 12 2020 13:51 utc | 218

Obama didn't "refuse" to enforce a no-fly zone in Syria; he was impeded to do so by Russia. You know, against his (and therefore, America's) will.

The USA isn't invading more countries for the simple fact it can't. The rest of the world is beginning to impose its will on the Americans. As I've said in the previous open thread: the American people will have to get used to humble pies, because they'll have to eat many.

--//--

@ Posted by: Kadath | Nov 12 2020 3:13 utc | 160

The "Great Reset" is a fantasy term. It doesn't exist. It's just a bombastic term some journalists invented for click bait purposes.

What is happening is simply the good ol' decline. When declines happen slowly, there's always a natural instinct of the empire in question to try to "go back to the old ways". We don't need to create new terminology to explain simple historical processes.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 13:58 utc | 221

More from Giuliani last night:

Giuliani: 650,000 Votes Were Counted Unlawfully In Philadelphia And Pittsburgh

Posted by: gm | Nov 12 2020 14:00 utc | 222

I was very amazed by this article.
Many many sites I read here in the US show ballot fraud. One example being a voting machine reducing the number of votes for one candidate while adding the exact same number of votes to the opposing candidate at the exact same time! Electronically switching votes. I cite this example as it was on a cnn site and was shown on the vote counting part of the screen; it was not the subject of the news.
IMO, using electronic voting machines has permitted all kinds of fraud for YEARS; we naive and careless Americans have just accepted the results of the machine. I think this election has put into question our system of voting and to save our country we will have to change it. Reason being; we Americans have gone to the polls happily pushing buttons for our candidate of choice and this action actually means squat. Our candidates have been chosen by those that control these machines, which are all owned and operated by opaque private companies, one of which (Dominion) is partly owned and operated by the family of our current speaker of the
house. I hate to think this. I encourage every citizen of the US to investigate.

Posted by: lizzie dw | Nov 12 2020 14:02 utc | 223

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 13:51 utc | 220

You've got it, they certainly inserted us, to keep in power an ally of Hitler during 40 years in exchange for... that's it, bases baby, bases. Rota with one eye on Gibraltar just in case. I take a bike ride almost every morning, and I ride by the infamous Broken Arrow spot, where back in the sixties four H bombs were dropped, one of them broke and spilled plutonium. How's that for an insertion, then on my way back I contemplate the beautiful Sierra, well, yankees love good spots with nice views, right on the highest point there is an Aegis radar, so I think, Volodya back there in Kozelsk, how're doing today, he is watching my Sierra and in case things go awry guess who is gonna get a big bang.. so yes, insertion, like the so called spanish "socialists" whose motto was OTAN de entrada no, that is To start with: NO, but insertion: Yeaaaah insert it please, and the guy got to be NATO's secretary general for a million bucks a year and the bombing of Yugoslavia. So much for the spanish socialists and their cousins the yankee Dims.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 14:07 utc | 224

Discovering that the electronic voting machines are controlled by whomever and that our pushing buttons for our candidate is an exercise in futility does not obviate the other voter fraud which has occurred this election, that being, for one, the hauling into polling places boxes and boxes of votes - in one case 130,000 votes - all of which were for Mr. Biden and all of which were counted (although why they bothered I don't know) in the middle of the night with no observes present. I think that is Michigan but it could be Pennsylvania. There are many examples available to read - for instance a list of voters who registered and voted who were all born in 1800. Or the fact that mail in ballots were received back at the polling place the same day they were mailed out. Or that state regulations regarding election rules are made by the legislature of a state but changes in these rules were made by other state entities immediately before the election. Why have a state legislative body with constitutionally mandated tasks if you are not going to pay any attention to them? We all need to read the Constitution of the United States on a regular basis so we know what we have here.

Posted by: lizzie dw | Nov 12 2020 14:12 utc | 225

Sad news indeed this morning. The last major provider of election news that sagely kept Pennsylvania outcome as still undecided now put Pennsylvania to "decided" column and updated the electoral count of Biden to 279 >= 270. Georgia will have a recount and Arizona is still doing something (counting?).

AP has the same story. I tried to compare the count with sites that present yesterday news, and the only difference is that the "counted" percentage moved from 97% to 99% with advantage of Biden at 0.8%. Meaning: the precise numbers of votes credited to candidates did not change. That implies that either the size of a batch of votes not counted happened to be much smaller than estimated, or that a batch was removed from counting, perhaps the votes that GOP was demanding to exclude.

With Deep State taking over Real Clear Politics with its bevy of right-of-center commentators (they also aggregate links in a balanced way), following the coup at Fox News, there are precious few beacons of light left in the land. I suggest all despondent advocates of Trump to listen to the song on You Tube "Duct Tape and Baling Wire" with an instruction how to repair a broken heart.

Among unverified news, Guliani was seen listening to Rigoletto and crying.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 12 2020 14:23 utc | 226

Class struggle:

Business groups shudder at thought of Sanders as Labor secretary

“Naming such a polarizing choice would be a pretty big bait-and-switch for a president-elect who ran on bringing the country together to solve problems,” said Matt Haller, senior vice president of government relations and public affairs at the International Franchise Association.

“This election said many things, but it was not a mandate by voters to turn America into a country that rejects capitalism — just ask the House incumbents who were thrown out of office in purple districts for being unable to separate themselves from the lunatic fringe agenda,” he added.

Aric Newhouse, senior vice president of policy and government relations at the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), said the next administration and Congress should be focused more on bipartisanship.

“We think this is the time for middle ground, compromise, results-oriented policies and extremes on either side are not going to be conducive to getting things done in Washington. It's not about individuals, it’s not about people, it’s not about politics, it’s about policy,” he said when asked about the prospect of Sanders leading the Labor Department.

[...]

Several union leaders who spoke with The Hill said they would be thrilled to have Sanders atop the Labor Department.

“Bernie Sanders would be an amazing Labor secretary. He doesn't just understand labor and advocate for working people, he grounds his life in the labor ideals of solidarity, equity, and leaving no one behind,” said Sara Nelson, international president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.

“Bernie understands that you can't have a strong democracy or a thriving economy without a strong labor movement and power for working people to get a fair share of the value our labor creates,” she added.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 14:30 utc | 227

vk @222: "The rest of the world is beginning to impose its will on the Americans."

I am not so sure about that. It would certainly be good if what you say will be the case, but posts like those by H.Schmatz leave me doubtful. Many people seem to think that the empire will become much nicer now that Trump is on his way out. It is just wishful thinking; pure fantasy, but these people seem to really believe it. Doubtless many world leaders, who are supposed to be wiser, also believe that peace will reign in the world now with Trump gone, while in fact the last four years have been internationally the most peaceful in living memory.

There is a problem with this as it resets global expectations for the American empire back from negative to positive. People want to believe that things will be better, so they do believe it. So when the US increases sanctions on Iran and starts launching missile strikes on Iran, many people in the world will give the US the benefit of the doubt and say "Maybe Iran deserves it this time. After all, Biden isn't Trump. I'm sure he has a good reason!" And when the US begins bombing again in Syria and increasing troop number there people will say "Yeah, but it is Biden doing it now, not Trump! Biden isn't bombing Syrians for their oil, but rather to protect them!" People will desperately cling to these fantasies in the hopes that things return to how they imagine they were in the good ol` days before Trump.

Never underestimate how short people's memories are. These people's minds are so damaged and cleansed that they even think Bush Jr. was a good world leader now. They have totally forgotten America's war on Iraq, and they probably don't even realize that America waged war on Libya and Yugoslavia. If forced to confront those realities those people suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome will prevaricate and rationalize those crimes by arguing "Yeah, but America had good intentions then! Not like Trump! Trump is mean!"

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 14:36 utc | 228

@Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 13:58 utc | 222

Ehhh, really?

Twit deleted by WEF after it was spread in the net...

https://twitter.com/netmork/status/1325916793156874242

Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 14:42 utc | 229

@Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 14:07 utc | 225

And all those insertions will come to an end with a new Trump presidency, do not tell me, yeah, after all we do not get it, right?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 14:44 utc | 230

Gee the resistance, with out any evidence, opined for four years of Russian hacking. So how are all of you so certain that since you say an election can be hacked, it wasn't again with the Dominion voting machines? Here in PA we have ballots arriving in the mail that are still being counted as I typed. Alito ruled the election officials must segregate the mailed in ballots that arrived after the 5th. Two reports circulating the envelopes of those belated ballots have been destroyed, and another claims they were never segregated. Kinda sounds like a contempt of a court ruling here. What would happen if the Supreme Court does rule contempt, and that all mailed in ballots from Philadelphia and Allegheny are considered tainted and subsequently inadmissible? Trump then wins PA , and I would be thrilled to see the Democrat party machine of Philly get theirs for a change. Then all you need for a President Trump is wins in Arizona and Georgia (which I have read are doing a certified audits (?)).

I have no clue if Trump can win, I do hope he starts burning the whole freaking thing down. Start by bring home the troops in Afghanstan and maybe Syria / Iraq. A couple of pardons for Assange and Snowden wouldn't hurt. Declassify everything. Then I will pop some popcorn and bake cookies to watch the resistance cry Hitler and racist one more time. Could everyone learn that Hitler was a national socialist and Mussolini was the fascist? Adolph would have loved the resistance, while Benito would have dined with your corporate sponsors.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Nov 12 2020 14:46 utc | 231

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 14:36 utc | 229

It's not becoming nicer: it's becoming more impotent. You don't need to do color revolution when you can do a traditional military invasion. Color revolutions are essentially the poor man's military invasion/colonization.

In fact, History tells us the opposite is true: declining empires are more aggressive than hegemonic empires. Hegemonic empires have plenty of room to play cute because they are economically prosperous.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 14:47 utc | 232

In fact, History tells us the opposite is true: declining empires are more aggressive than hegemonic empires. Hegemonic empires have plenty of room to play cute because they are economically prosperous.

@Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 14:47 utc | 233

Thus... no way we need another Trump presidency to receive what is to be expected after all, due the situation in the US, of which everybody is aware here and at governments level...

The strong political and judicial strategy being displayed by the whole GOP supporting Trump in his contestation of preliminary election results points at that a new Trump presidency will be harsher, anyway, after gaining new cofidence through what they will no doubt interpret as a regained legitimacy offered by at least half the electorate ( from those who vote, are allowed to vote there, of ocurce...), the other half as that they do not care anyway, as Trump has widely demonstrated.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 14:53 utc | 233

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 14:44 utc | 231

So if I say that Biden is an old corrupt politician that makes me a Trump lover?
What makes me cringe is hypocrisy and that the so called Democrats or Socialists in Spain are full of it. De entrada no, and then the guy goes to say in a press conference that the pilot “dropped the bomb with the best of intentions, like every pilot of a democratic country”, after blowing a passenger train -full of passengers- and a bridge in Yugoslavia. Those guys are worse than robbers and scoundrels, Trump does not pretend to be something, he is an asshole but does not hide it, to the contrary, he brags about it. I prefer that to “we came, we saw, he died”, yeah Hilaria, you went to an expensive school and they taught you famous aphorisms from famous historical characters. Bravo.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 14:59 utc | 234

@Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 13:58 utc | 222

More on the unexistent ( according to you...) "Great Reset"

8 predictions for the world in 2030

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 14:59 utc | 235

At the time of Macron becoming president of France in 2017,it was reported in several MSM media that the counting of votes was totalized or mastered or whatever you call it,in Denver Colorado.

I tried to find those mentions,but I could not.I believe that at the time they even gave the name of the company that was committed by France (government Hollande)to do the counting.

H.Schmatz,I 'm quite sure that is was G.W Bush who signed a law or executive order to invade The Hague (Netherlands) in case of any american prosecuted in a TPI or ICC court.

Posted by: willie | Nov 12 2020 15:03 utc | 236

@Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 14:59 utc | 235

The solution,I repeat, does not passe for allowing another 4 years of Trump, since he would that on steroids.

I have already explained on my awareness of the system, but "what is to be done" is not support a scoundrel supported by the whole GOP like Trump.

Of course, I am not far-righ leaing, like most here these days...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 15:08 utc | 237

@ Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 14:59 utc | 236

I get the concept, but I don't understand why you're calling it "The Great Reset". Every empire interprets its own fall as the end of the world, this is not exclusive to the Americans.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 15:10 utc | 238

Sorry for this, B.
Leaving aside the issue of the pandemic, is still interesting read - an opinion piece on the matter of The Reset.
Trying reading with only one eye:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/11/11/dystopic-great-reset-and-fight-back-population-reduction-and-hope-for-children-of-men/

Posted by: jared | Nov 12 2020 15:11 utc | 239

H.Schmatz,I 'm quite sure that is was G.W Bush who signed a law or executive order to invade The Hague (Netherlands) in case of any american prosecuted in a TPI or ICC court.

@Posted by: willie | Nov 12 2020 15:03 utc | 237

Whose party, the GOP; is supporting Trump as if there was no tomorrow, once aware of the possibilities of contestation of results at SC, as B explains..

He has congratulated Biden, by passing, just in case, to get well and not loose ball...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 15:11 utc | 240

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 15:08 utc | 238

Talking aphorisms, the Queen of Chaos should tell old Billy that great sentence spoken by no other than Napoleon himself:

More head and less tongue....

Right and left is so passé. Up and down is a lot more like it.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 15:15 utc | 241

vk @222 Is correct about the "Great Reset". It is economically nonsensical. You cannot reset capitalism simply by wishing real hard. The only thing that can reset capitalism is an event that kinetically destroys significantly more than half of the world's industrial productive capacity. Such events are called "world wars". World wars are unlikely to work as a means of resetting capitalism these days as any nation state that has significant industrial capacity will also have the ability to create and use nuclear weapons, making it risky to attempt to destroy their industrial base.

I am not saying delusional moonbeam morons - Europeans, for instance - are not going to attempt a Tinkerbell fix for capitalism, just that they cannot succeed. They will try to economically fly by pulling upwards on their own underwear, with easily predictable results.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 15:17 utc | 242

@Paco

Curious, to say the least, that you pedal daily by an US military base and you speak, at least, Spanish and Russian...

I asked whether you was a "niño de la guerra" at other thread, you did not answer, do not bother, obviously you are not...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 15:17 utc | 243

William Gruff @Nov12 11:43 #200

I see what you did there!

You're engaging in the same back-fitting that you accuse me of when I say that the 2016 election was rigged. But your back-fitting is specious and pro-Trump.

You accept the canard that of Trump fighting the Deep State. Many of us see that 'fight' as just kayfabe.

Trump was selected to be President because he could be the faux populist anti-Hero to Obama's
faux populist hero. You search far and wide for reasons why has disrupted the Deep State instead of seeing that the Deep State wanted to shake things up - Trump's JOB has been to shake things up (for team Deep State) and stoke patriotic nationalism. All in response to the challenge from Russia and China.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 15:18 utc | 244

@steven t johnson | Nov 12 2020 13:51 utc | 218: "Nobody who is anti-war assassinates a top Iranian commander."

To begin with, nobody is "anti-war". Except for a few cranks, perhaps. The proof's in the pudding: no new wars during his whole term, his first term.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 12 2020 15:21 utc | 245

@ Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Nov 12 2020 14:46 utc | 232

Gee the resistance, with out any evidence, opined for four years of Russian hacking. So how are all of you so certain that since you say an election can be hacked, it wasn't again with the Dominion voting machines?

Perhaps it was bullshit when the Democrats spewed it too?

If there were an operation to carry out substantial voter fraud we'd have numerous whistleblowers before the election and before the GOP decided to pull this psyop on their rank-and-file.

My hope for the final days of the Trump administration is that he pulls the rug under enthusiasm for a Biden administration by drawing down our forever wars, including the war on drugs. Can you imagine if Trump was the president who legalized pot? Liberals' heads would explode. Maybe if we just believe hard enough it will happen (although this tactic has burned me recently with Trump's covid diagnosis).

Posted by: fnord | Nov 12 2020 15:22 utc | 246

So if I say that Biden is an old corrupt politician that makes me a Trump lover?

@Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 14:59 utc | 235

The inverse of that neither makes of me a Biden lover, but you, and mainly Gruff, insist on denying that fact.

What I want is gaining time, as short term goal, to overcome the pandemic, after all, it´s already almost every man for himself...If yo udo not overcome the pandemic, you can not do longer term planning, which is what probably results operative by foreign transatlantic hedge funds...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 15:26 utc | 247

Old and Grumpy @ 232

What would happen if the Supreme Court does rule contempt, and that all mailed in ballots from Philadelphia and Allegheny are considered tainted and subsequently inadmissible?

If SCOTUS rules that the decision by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court was unconstitutional that is exactly what may occur.

Why is the Supreme Court Involved in Pennsylvania?


Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 15:38 utc | 248

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 15:17 utc | 244

That made me laugh, are you suggesting I'm some kind of spook?
Read the post properly, I pedal by the site where back in the sixties there was a Broken Arrow incident, and the supposed beach where the US ambassador together with Mr. Fraga took a swim to prove to the world that there was nothing wrong with our beaches, or with the plutonium dropped on us, to protect us of course, like a few decades later Mr. Pesc remarked with all authority: like every pilot of every democratic country. So you see if you or your family get blown to pieces by a democratic bomb you have a reserved spot on democratic paradise. Hypocrisy, makes my blood pressure explode.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 15:39 utc | 249

To all the Dick-tator Trump bootlickers like William Gruff, NemesisCalling and others and Russiabots like Paco, blues and in between the two like crazy Uncle T., DownSouth, Norwegian and EoinW, who never met a conspiracy theory they couldn't resist: keep spinning your wheels in the muck...going nowhere.

@193 teri

I looked it up and it's true, Dick-tator Trump wants names of those who clapped when James Anderson resigned and walked out of the Pentagon; to have them fired.

I could picture a certain infamous Dictator with funny mustache screaming from his bunker for the heads of traitors to his cause in the ranks.

If he's purging to this degree, then what else could this be but a coup? Worse case scenario.

If he attempts a coup, which will probably be considered a breach of 18 U.S. Code Chapter 115 § 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government then he might be arrested.

I'll bet he already has a pardon issued for himself, and in some twisted way would argue that the statute used for such case is an unjust law because it contravenes this right: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness-That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.

Is this the start of all hell breaking loose? It's looking like Trump might actually be mulling the Samson option. Although, I hear Trump minions are talking him down to face the reality of defeat so maybe the worst-case scenario was diffused.

*******

Now for the b*tch slap for all here who deviously try to blur the lines between Progressive goals and Trumpism. Do not confuse Revolution with Coup. Do not confuse the purge Trump may be attempting and the purge of Citizens United and corruption or goal of purity in governance many Progressives aspire to! And this is ESPECIALLY for Debsisdead: Do not confuse or try to equate Trump with Eugene Debs. Debs would be the enemy of Trump! Trump is a Roy Cohn, McCarthyist who would see Debs and his followers rot in prison like he's doing with Assange. Shame on you artfully pushing Trumpism while vicariously using Eugene Debs! He's been turning in his grave thanks to you not vociferously denouncing Trump as the Enemy of the People as he would. Your equivocation, ambiguous cowardice therefore glaring tacit enabling of Trump disgusts me to my core.

The chaff are unmasked.

The p.s. is for b: Your popcorn is akin to Nero's cithara.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 12 2020 15:48 utc | 250

Mao Cheng Ji @Nov12 15:21 #246

The proof's in the pudding: no new wars during his whole term, his first term.

Those who decried the characterization of BLM protests as "mostly peaceful" are cheering Trump's "mostly peaceful" foreign policy.

LMFAO.

"Mostly nonsense" from partisan hacks.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 15:53 utc | 251

Posted by: Circe | Nov 12 2020 15:48 utc | 251

Dear Circe, you're losing your powers, no matter how hard you try you're not going to make swains of the responsible posters that see beyond your partisanship. Your rants are quite entertaining, and we have a couple of months to go. So if ten days shook the world, John Reed dixit, seventy something days are going to be..... wondrous. Don't forget Yogi Berra, aint over till its over.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 12 2020 15:58 utc | 252

@Paco,

Tell me, if you do not mind, how is it that you speak Russian, a language not so commonly taught, least spoken, in Spain, except amongst old refugees from the civil war already death in their majority?

I would like to leran Russian, only just do not have the time right now..

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 16:03 utc | 253

Circe @Nov12 15:48 #251

Dick-tator Trump wants names of those who clapped when James Anderson resigned and walked out of the Pentagon; to have them fired.

We see bullshit like this anti-clapping vendetta instead of any real action to drain the swamp:
... his supporters claimed (because they wanted to believe they finally had a champion and to believe their votes were well placed) that Trump was playing 4-D chess! Some 4-D chess! The game is over, and he’s clearly lost.

So, I'm more than glad to give him the boot. Trojan Trump was an abject failure at his biggest promise. The deep state remains entrenched, and Trump exposed almost nothing but his own back side. He didn't end any of the MICs military endeavors. He repeatedly made the MIC’s top brass his many chiefs of staff. There was no 4-D chess here, people! There was two-dimensional stupidity. Trump got played or never intended to do anything he said.


<> <> <> <> <>

I've been warning that Trump is a Deep-State approved faux populist for years. The Republican Obama.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 16:06 utc | 254

Jackrabbit @ 255

I've been warning that Trump is a Deep-State approved faux populist for years. The Republican Obama.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.


And in order to keep up this pretense they’re willing to destroy the credibility of the MSM and Big Tech and and rig an election in full view of everyone ?

Did the thought never occurred to you that there is a split in the elite between those that are nationalists who want to preserve the US at the expense of the empire and those that are globalists who want to preserve the empire at the expense of the US ?

Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 16:15 utc | 255

vk @233: "It's not becoming nicer: it's becoming more impotent...declining empires are more aggressive than hegemonic empires. Hegemonic empires have plenty of room to play cute because they are economically prosperous."

I agree completely with this part, and so does my understanding of history and of economics. Late-stage capitalism is a morass of contradictions. The weaker empire becomes the more vigorously it must employ the tools it still has available.

"You don't need to do color revolution when you can do a traditional military invasion. Color revolutions are essentially the poor man's military invasion/colonization."

This part I am not entirely in agreement with, though I don't think it is central to your point. In its prime the empire can subjugate nations simply by asking them nicely to kneel and kiss the imperial ring. Color revolutions are just a step up in forcefulness from that. The US never militarily invaded Australia but that country is now one of the most servile and obsequious vassals the empire could ever want. The empire can easily maintain its occupation and control of that country with only a few dozen troops. Australia would happily dive on a grenade to protect the empire, as they are doing in their own trade war with China.

Another example would be Italy in 1948. While the US had invaded Italy, it took, in effect, color revolution for the empire to take control of that country.

Color revolutions, or seizing control of the state apparatus by bourgeois capitalist politics, is cheaper for the empire than destroying the state followed by nation-building. It also results in a more productive (profitable) vassal state. It isn't a sign of weakness for the empire to pursue this less expensive control since the whole point to capitalist empire is efficient extraction of wealth. Cutting costs is a never-ending part of capitalism, even where running empire is concerned.

With that said, it is important to understand why when empire is in terminal economic decline it will (more like it must) resort to more expensive and less productive means for controlling its vassals. The empire has less to offer its vassals as its economy declines. So long as the empire is economically powerful the middle classes in the vassal states will align with it. Those middle classes like having their nations "penetrated" by the empire's "Troy horses". When the empire's economy is in decline, though, it loses its "mojo". Asking nicely is no longer enough to keep the vassal state serving its bosses and so more energetic approaches must be used to keep the vassals in line. These more energetic approaches to imperial control cost more and reduce the productivity of the vassal states. That in turn hastens the empire's economic decline, which in turn results in the empire needing to employ more violence to maintain itself in a positive feedback loop of self destruction.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 16:16 utc | 256

We are at the beginning of an attempted color revolution, and the only real beneficiaries will be those who want to see US institutions thrown into the wastebasket to allow for the unimpeded control by big money and the complete dissolution of white power. The irony is that this imbecilic 'revolution' is being led and cheered by white nationalists.

Posted by: saggy | Nov 12 2020 16:17 utc | 257

@William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 15:17 utc | 243

Re. The Reset -
I believe I understand that Resets are a regular feature of world finance.
It's what happens when we go bankrupt - slate is wiped clean, somebody eats the loss.
A regular occurrence in personal and world history.
The Reset has to do with when the owners will say they have a plan to ensure that it will never happen again. Often it is masked by war or revolution - French Revolution.
A little reset in 2008 - Tarp etc.
A stealth reset at inception of the <<< Global Pandemic >>> - quick injection of around 1T to banks and Boing.
I believe the USA has bankrupted itself something like 7 times in it's brief history.
See Cantillian Effect - the wealthy pocket the winnings and go home - reverse Robinhood scheme.

Posted by: jared | Nov 12 2020 16:17 utc | 258

vk defends his cothinker Gruff pretending I
didnt explicitly mention imperial decline. Both are wrong
If Obama doesn’t deserve credit neither does trump

Mao Cheng Ji denies that an act of war like the assassination
Of Soleimani is an act of war on the specious grounds
the Iranians didn’t fight back with a general war. Trump
Risked general war on a whim. There is no honest defense of
Trump on anti war grounds no matter what Gruff vk and Mao
Say

Posted by: Steven Johnson | Nov 12 2020 16:27 utc | 259

I asked myself, do I like Trump?
No I do not.
I really don't.
He's a moron.
I actually think I hate him as much as I hate Biden.
But I believe that Trump is a better choice.
Trump cannot lose this or USA is PHUCKED!!

Posted by: Fernando Martinez | Nov 12 2020 16:34 utc | 260


Down South write:

And in order to keep up this pretense they’re willing to destroy the credibility of the MSM and Big Tech and and rig an election in full view of everyone ?
____________________________________________

But that is not what is happening. You are stating a counterfactual. In the eyes of the majority the credibility of the MSM and Big Tech has been enhanced. Trump may eventually win the electoral college but there is no dispute that the biggest block of voters in history of the US voted for Biden.

In your eyes the left arm of the corporate media and Big Tech has lost credibility, but I suspect that happened before trump came along. In your eyes the right arm of the corporate media has gained credibility. Trump may have helped with that.


Posted by: jinn | Nov 12 2020 16:45 utc | 261

Down South @Nov12 16:15 #256

Did the thought never occurred to you that there is a split in the elite between those that are nationalists who want to preserve the US at the expense of the empire and those that are globalists who want to preserve the empire at the expense of the US ?

In August 2014 Kissinger advocated for MAGA as a response to Russia and China. Ten months later, Trump was the MAGA candidate who blew past all apparent (i.e. fake) opposition from the entire political establishment.

USA elite is still EMPIRE FIRST and globalism is still favored. But USA nationalism needed to be rekindled to meet the challenge from Russia and China.

Only when they are properly deluded will USA dumbf*cks fight and sacrifice. They will never know that they are fighting for their globalist masters.

The exceptional nation. Now with more arms (after Trump's military build-up), more patriotic fever (MAGA!), and more magical thinking.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 16:49 utc | 262

jinn @ 261

In the eyes of the majority the credibility of the MSM and Big Tech has been enhanced

I’m left speechless.

Jackrabbit @ 262

USA elite is still EMPIRE FIRST and globalism is still favored. But USA nationalism needed to be rekindled to meet the challenge from Russia and China

You can’t be a nationalist and a globalist. They’re mutually exclusive. In Russia the fight is between Atlantic Integrationists and Eurasian Sovereignists ( a la Saker)

You’re too far down the rabbit hole it seems if you can hold two mutually exclusive propositions in your head and pretend they’re one and the same.

What you are seeing in the US is that the fight between the two groups has become so intense and the stakes so high that the fighting has broken out in the open, The globalists are so desperate to get rid of the nationalist that they’re willing to sacrifice the credibility of the MSM, Big Tech even rig an election in such a public manner because it’s an existential crisis for both groups. Either the empire survives or the US does. They can’t both survive.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 17:06 utc | 263

juliania @148--

Thanks for your reply! Your age would preclude you from taking up arms. There are other ways such as what pacifists were assigned--medical duty and other non-combat chores.

As to voting as a requirement of citizenship, making it mandatory would interfere with the concept of perfect liberty, but what's far more important is civic involvement, the means-end test of civic literacy advocated by Nader. My basic aim is to highlight the fact that citizens have obligations as citizens--duties--they must perform for the polity to function properly. Here's a preview read of Steffens's The Shame of the Cities I urge everyone to read for it details the depth of corruption in those cities that set the stage for our current socio-political dysfunction. What Steffens describes are not the actions of citizens but those of grifters trying to gain by playing the game they see everyone else playing--and the cops turning a blind eye. The US Senate at the time he's writing was seen as a massive cesspool of corruption--just look at political cartoons from that era to see how viciously Senators were lampooned.

Any Republic is only as moral as its citizenry. The great number of skeletons in US History's closet tells us that this nation is one of the most immoral of all time, and we are living the results of that now and for the past 3-4 generations. How else to billion and trillionaires come about?!

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 12 2020 17:09 utc | 264

Ahahahaha. The comment section here is maybe 1/2 step better than 4chan. What a sad state of affairs for both b and his site (and I’ve been on private email lists with b almost 15 years ago). Massive voter fraud creates landslide victories like the old soviet and post-soviet elections; think Yeltsin winning 95%+ of the vote in Chechnya after starting a war there. And massive voter fraud committed by the Dems would have won them at least a few senate seats. The results of the election at state levels clearly show that people were splitting tickets: vote for Biden and GOP senators/reps. Hell, the Dems lost seats in the house. It might also be worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is the most incompetent organization in the world. It lost to Donald Trump once and almost lost a second time. If anyone could pull off massive voter fraud, it’s not the Democratic Party.

What a world we live where a cult can form around a grown-ass toddler who wears diapers in a country that’s barely functional and is now a damned plague state. I hate Biden and the Dems *and* I hate trump. The only good Trump’s done is accelerate the decline of the empire and expose the bullshit mythology of America. Not everything’s a conspiracy. In the US you have to account for the terrible educational system and the proud ignorance of our idiots like the current president.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 12 2020 17:17 utc | 265

Down South | Nov 12 2020 17:06 utc | 263

You can’t be a nationalist and a globalist. They’re mutually exclusive... You’re too far down the rabbit hole it seems if you can hold two mutually exclusive propositions in your head and pretend they’re one and the same.

I don't see them as on and the same. You are twisting what I said.

You don't want to see that globalists are capable of using nationalism when it is deemed necessary.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 17:25 utc | 266

Jackrabbit @ 266

You don't want to see that globalists are capable of using nationalism when it is deemed necessary

Oh, I can see that and the perfect example of that is when they built up National Socialism in Germany to take on the Soviets after that revolution that they funded didn’t turn out they way they thought it would.

What I am saying is that isn’t what is happening in the US.

Why would the globalists build up nationalism in the US to take on Russia and.China when they have spent the last 50 destroying America in what Paul Volcker described as a controlled disintegration of the US which by my reckoning has progressed so far as to be irreversible?

That 1.4 Quadrillion dollar derivatives Death Star is going to blow regardless of who is President.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 17:44 utc | 267

What I love about the postings at "Moon of Alabama" is that they are so nepharious and many-sided. Keep the good work up!
-- and thenks to "be" for his persistent work. The high quality of his schooling and background from the years when Germany rightfully was kept divided is to be attrubutet to the quality of East against West Schooling in the ranks of the inteligences of those two polities.

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐 | Nov 12 2020 17:48 utc | 268

I had a high opinion of the MoA, but since the media has decreed Biden elected, it seems that his analytical faculties have been anesthetized.
Will MoA be in mass hysteria when he realizes that Trump has already been elected?

Posted by: Octron Bismark | Nov 12 2020 17:50 utc | 269

".. I can see that and the perfect example of that is when they built up National Socialism in Germany to take on the Soviets after that revolution that they funded didn’t turn out they way they thought it would..."
If there is one unfailing indication of the presence of an idiot it is the suggestion that the Bolshevik Revolution was funded by bankers and carried out by their dupes.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 12 2020 18:19 utc | 270

Bevin @ 270

Ignorance is bliss

Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 18:44 utc | 271

@ Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 18:44 utc | 272

And Kaiser Wilhelm II arranged a train to transport Lenin back to Russia in 1917. And the Kock patriarch collaborated with oil refineries in the USSR during Stalin. And Trotsky was originally a Menshevik. Etc. etc. etc.

Nobody had a crystal ball. Some conservatives thought the Bolsheviks would bring the definitive destruction of Russia. Some capitalists thought they could use and derail the Bolsheviks in order to more easily sack Russia. Some others thought the Bolsheviks would self-destruct if they were put together. There was no internet at the time. It's easy to observe the chaotic times of 1917-1945 with the benefit of hindsight.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 19:05 utc | 272

@273 vk - Nobody had a crystal ball

Nor do they now, and I think this is Down South's central point.

@271 bevin

Truly there's no need to call people idiots. It would be more useful if you'd critique Sutton's work for us, which I know you're eminently capable of doing. And I recommend vk's point also for your consideration.

For the record, Down South strikes me as a genuine and thoughtful commenter, certainly one whom I read. And as for you, it was your comment quoted in Counterpunch that first led me to MoA - I trust my respect over the years has been obvious.

Surely we are more collegial than this?

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 12 2020 19:41 utc | 274

@Steven Johnson | Nov 12 2020 16:27 utc | 260:
"Mao Cheng Ji denies that an act of war like the assassination
Of Soleimani is an act of war on the specious grounds
the Iranians didn’t fight back with a general war."

You bet I deny that an assassination is an act of war.

You're right that it could count as a casus belli, but then you're also right that, in fact, it didn't start a war. For all we know, Khamenei might've been in on it.

In general, these discussions would go smoother if those on the liberal side (yes, you do sound like a liberal) tried to contain their TDS. Otherwise it feels like talking to a phonograph stuck on 'Orange Man Bad'.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 12 2020 20:39 utc | 275

Finnian Cunningham interprets another scenario being built up, contrary to hwat many try to make us believe here...

>A HREF="https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/11/12/trump-doubles-down-on-coup-detat/">Trump Doubles Down on Coup D’État

We have not heard a word here, or at other fanatic pro-Trump blogs like SST for that matter, on the new appointees to head main posts at Pentagon.
The alleged vote fraud, which it seems really is not, act as squid ink to veil this plot..

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 20:45 utc | 276

The link go through wrongly...

Trump Doubles Down on Coup D’État

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 20:47 utc | 277

Roma locuta, causa finita

NY Post: Pope Francis congratulated Joe Biden Thursday, making the head of the Catholic Church the ninth world leader to speak personally with the former veep since he was named president-elect.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 12 2020 21:29 utc | 278

Good article. But I am not sure it is true that Trump did not start a war.

A blockade is an act of war under the Paris Declaration Respecting Maritime Law and by Articles 1–22 of the 1909 London Declaration Concerning the Laws of Naval War.

I think that it is at least arguable that Trump has committed acts of war against both Venezuela and Iran.

Posted by: Mike from Jersey | Nov 12 2020 21:34 utc | 279

It's just really difficult to understand what you are going on about.

There is massive evidence of voter fraud. Massive. While it's great that 150 years ago Americans honored the Constitution,we don't even need to go there. They are cheating. There is massive evidence they have cheated.

Posted by: restless94110 | Nov 12 2020 21:43 utc | 280

Mike from Jersey @280--

Thanks for your comment. It's very sad since it seems I'm the only one in the crowd who sees and calls out the daily violations of International Law and its own Constitution by those running the Outlaw US Empire and ongoing for 75+ years now.

From the Streets:

Trump Won!!

Biden Won!!

Trump Won!!

Biden Won!!

Trump Won!!

But nobody yells:

The People Lost!!

The POTUS will be a proven criminal even prior to the Inauguration this year for the 13th time since 1945. Do let that sink in for a minute. Based on that stat, one might surmise the electorate installs a known domestic enemy in almost every election since WW2. A few have concluded the citizenry very much deserves the mistreatment they get from such people they elect. Looks like there's an exception to the rule of not being able to fool almost all of the people all of the time.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 12 2020 22:09 utc | 281

Nobody talks or mentions MOA any more, anywhere. It used to be a very cool site. Now it's just establishment. Oh my God, how did I fall for it?

Posted by: Lchearn | Nov 12 2020 23:47 utc | 282

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 12 2020 22:09 utc | 282 -- "But nobody yells: The People Lost!! The POTUS will be a proven criminal.... for the 13th time since 1945..... a known domestic enemy in almost every election since WW2."

Thanks for your formulation of the charges. The US is guilty as charged: an Outlaw Nation since at least 1945, led by audacious criminals, useful idiots, go-along-to get-along servants, and their owners -- the famous One Percent.

Thinking people, truth speakers, honest people will join you to point to those truths, but we are a tiny minority. Let's say we are the Other One Percent.

The majority, at least the last 3 generations of Americans, have been lulled into deep sleep by the deep state. Most of them are not dumb, just mis-informed, but they cannot be awakened by us yelling at them. I liken them to members of a cult, their minds totally captured, perverted, inverted, complete with stockholm syndrome. As I wrote on The Saker yesterday, they are Repeaters: they repeat error continually, and have a confounding (to you and I) capacity to reject truth. Such people are beyond reason, and cannot be de-programmed easily. Much of the commentariat on this blog, and indeed, on The Saker is proof thereof.

To turn this situation around, what needs to be done is the opposite of what the deep state has done. Start in the schools, teach truth to children, who will go on to raise children of (some) truth, and by the 3rd generation, America just might live the truth, build a True America. That is assuming the One Percent does not fight back and wrestle truth-speaking patriots to a standstill, or worse, that they do not arkancide us. LOL.

Me? I do not have the years left. How do you turn an insane people back into sanity? I do not have the optimism left. I am pessimistic about America next 50 years, but optimistic about America after that, especially if America rediscovers their spirituality, their God, their senses. Until then, America will see more pain, more toilet bowl swirling.

Yes, it is indeed lonely for prophets, those who cannot help but shout truth every single day. And just as I wrote to The Saker yesterday, so I write to you to please do not stop writing. Please write, but also, please educate your children so that they will educate your grandchildren. Me? I am doing that too.

And thanks again to you, I am doing my 'homework' on that Zhang Wei Wei fellow (whom you introduced), who speaks with such clarity, scholarship, authority, and intelligence on the error that is the US, and on the hope that is China.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 13 2020 0:01 utc | 283

282 Cont'd--

Adding to the assured calamity is this by Giraldi, "Neocons Poised to Join New Government," announcing the almost certain return of the "Kaganate of Nulandia" while reminding us that the Neocons arose first as Ds in the 1970s. We should add it all to Pepe Escobar's "Return of the Blob" essay warning us what's in store if Biden was installed. So, it turns out there were very principled reasons to vote for Trump. Hopefully, Giraldi's conclusion isn't prophetic:

"Nowhere in Biden’s possible foreign policy circle [Link at Original] does one find anyone who is resistant to the idea of worldwide interventionism in support of claimed humanitarian objectives, even if it would lead to a new cold war with major competitor powers like Russia and China. In fact, Biden himself appears to embrace an extremely bellicose view [Link at Original] on a proper relationship with both Moscow and Beijing 'claiming that he is defending democracy against its enemies.' His language is unrelenting, so much so that it is Donald Trump who could plausibly be described as the peace candidate in the recently completed election, having said at the Republican National Convention in August 'Joe Biden spent his entire career outsourcing their dreams and the dreams of American workers, offshoring their jobs, opening their borders and sending their sons and daughters to fight in endless foreign wars, wars that never ended.'"

If I recall correctly, Trump agreed with Tulsi Gabbard about the need to end the Outlaw US Empire's Forever Wars. It's also quite revealing to read what D-Party Pundits are writing about versus the reality exposed above. Here's one example, "Republicans Aren’t Just Bad Losers—They’re Traitors to Democracy." The writer has such a bad memory he can't recall his D-Party did the same in 2016 and continued to be "Bad Losers" for 3.5 years more; and of course, he's only one of thousands. As I wrote earlier, the election outcome chaos is the most revealing aspect of the election.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 13 2020 0:14 utc | 284

Trump is just as much of a murdering war criminal scum as every other US president.

This "article" strikes me as tabloid garbage, just written to encourage division and vitriol with absolute shit for substance. Trying to pretend trump as anti-establishment is immature, unrealistic and fully disingenuous.
Trump is a swamp creature, he would not have held office otherwise.

If you're going to peddle garbage like this- then tell me-

How the fuck do you know Trumps 2016 win was not rigged? You don't, Nor did Russia interfere. But this is exactly the same GARBAGE tabloid journalism. Shameful really.

Posted by: CitizenX | Nov 13 2020 0:40 utc | 285

kiwiklown @284--

Thanks for your very gracious reply! After my 20+ year career in Food Services I went back to college in 1996 at 41 aiming to major in the teaching of US History, Political Science, Economics, and English as a Second Language to grades 7-16; I also minored in Anthropology and Sociology, and thought seriously about a genuine PhD in Philosophy--all so I could imbue students with basic truths and the skills to think and reason critically in order to outwit the forces of indoctrination. But a combination of factors and politics allowed me to teach for only 4 years. I was done in 2004 and moved to Oregon from California, my native state, and essentially retired, although I continued my research and worked on amassing my library. Now I'm 65 and know a whole lot more than I did at the end of 2001. I have several ideas for books that are meant to inform, but I do look around and ask myself perhaps too often if it's worth the effort. Compared to the Establishment Narrative, the Truths I have to tell would appear quite radical despite them being the Genuine Truth. I know all about trying to convert the Deeply Indoctrinated: The Theory of Evolution versus the Fantasy of Creationism was my first testing ground. Other encounters with the Deeply Indoctrinated involving other topics fared no better leading me to conclude it's not the topic but the depth of the indoctrination that creates the Zealot. Look at all the Evangelicals hoping for the incineration of 7 billion humans so they can go unmolested to their Fantasy Island--Immoral isn't the word; deluded psychopaths is closer.

I'm Paul Revere but nobody heeds my warning or worse--spins it. I'll bet the rabbit and circe feel the same, as well as many others. It's clear that getting people to think and reason critically isn't enough; to paraphrase Pink Floyd, they need to know beyond the basic facts and more than where it hurts. Thanks again for your clear vision!

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 13 2020 0:49 utc | 286

CitizenX @286

How the fuck do you know Trumps 2016 win was not rigged?
_______________________________________________

How do you know Trumps 2020 win was not rigged?

Posted by: jinn | Nov 13 2020 0:57 utc | 287

CitizenX @286--

How the fuck do you know Trumps[sic] 2016 win was not rigged?

The reverse question could be asked of you, nor could your answer be indisputably correct. The great mass of evidence says Trump's 2016 win was genuine, but the only way to really know is to go back and count every single vote, just as it is this time. The nation's already in a chaotic crisis, so why not add some more to the pyre so it might get out-of-control and burn the entire rotten edifice down so we're forced to rebuild.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 13 2020 0:59 utc | 288

karlof1 @ 265, thank you for the link to the preview, and in answer to your question at the end, I'd say that billionaires and trillionaires come about only because in the US the meritocracy system that other nations have, some better some worse didn't weed out the greedy and we will all probably pay for that as far as the immediate future is concerned. But I do not put this failure of our government onto the people. I was surprised at the number of people who voted; but not surprised that the vote was evenly placed. I don't think ordinary citizens are bad; I don't think we are all businessmen -- I actually know very few such, whose bottom line is profit by any means. So I'm not going to 'mea culpa' in that respect; nor do I place the blame on my neighbors. It is not all Americans who have this mindset; it is a cruel and misanthropic disease that afflicts a small portion of citizens and has come to the fore like the covid we find ourselves oppressed by, in government, where it can do the most damage, today, now- as never before in my lifetime.

There always were checks and balances - heroes who spoke out, even in the literature and entertainment fields, poetry and the like. The memory from the horrors of WW2 held back the worst excesses that have now become rampant.

I will say strongly that no, religion is NOT a business! Mine came from a garage converted into a church by a family whose head was in a concentration camp in Dresden when it was firebombed. A family church, with Russian refugees from the USSR driving up from far cities to attend. And what I study is the teachings of that church; it is my icon. I don't believe citizenship is enough to keep on on a moral path. Some spiritual nourishment is fundamentally crucial to our ability to keep to the road of virtue. So, that's what I teach, more by trying to be on that path myself than by instructing others. Example is the best teacher.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 13 2020 1:07 utc | 289

Here is a new Simone Gao interview of a Republican poll challenger/watcher on duty at the Detroit (Cobo Hall) vote counting center during the Nov3-4 ballot counting period. Very informative; 22 min long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVqUIgzrkDk

Posted by: gm | Nov 13 2020 2:25 utc | 290

@290 juliania - Example is the best teacher

And fortunately the world has China for that example, along with its rigorous documenting of its thinking and planning, so that all its example can be studied and evaluated, even as it continues to feel its way in the dark creating new economic theories from the base of Marxist theory.

When the US has fallen low enough that the normal height of China seems high enough to aspire to, the Demonstration Effect will work its way with the exhausted minds of the US populace. To use a Tibetan term, like working butter into leather, gradually the leather becomes pliable.

All of this will take time, but I now see no reason to think the world doesn't have that time. The world will get on with its path, and the US, in increasing isolation, will walk down its.

~~

@284 kiwiklown and #287 karlof1

I've concluded that the most successful way to conduct a revolution is not to attack the institution you wish to overthrow but to build its replacement so that as it declines, your replacement can gain in position. And it must decline, if it has already alienated people such as yourself.

So, communities, cooperatives, and new political parties are the answer to the demise of the US, in my view. This means a different timescale and a different allocation of personal energy.

Frustration and despair are both killers of the daily energy needed to help build this new world. It will never bear its great fruit in our lifetimes. Even more reason to offer all that we have into its building while we live.

It's not about us. It's about our descendants. No point getting upset because we can't see immediate gratification.

The world sympathizes, I believe, and will help as it can. But the world has its own tasks to attend to. This is our thing.

two cents

~~

ps...as always, if the battle suddenly does appear, all unexpected yet real as the dirt, then I stand ready at any moment to abandon my lifetime labor and meet you at the barricades :)

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 13 2020 2:26 utc | 291

A general observation about "massive fraud":

Perception of fraud was cultivated by Trump and Trumpoid for months if not longer. In particular, Philadelphia was declared an enemy at par with Iran and Venezuela. Thus there are many reports, some stemming from provocations concerning "observation process", COVID restrictions give occupancy limits on rooms, spacing limits on individuals, and while local officials were offering solutions like monitoring cameras, Trumpoids were bent on picking quarrels and collecting complaints. Thus it would take very biased judges to offer Trump campaigns remedies they would need. Or a veritable coup d'etat by Republican majority legislatures.

There are some political benefits, stocking a "black legend" mesmerising low income folks of Republican persuasion and other susceptibles. And in short term, there is a bundle to be made through fundraising.

But in practical terms, GOP has too many targets to handle through local authorities first. Salutary effect that is possible is that Democrats will update the current black legend, Russian interference, by the enemy next door, something that resonates much better.

Besides chasing victory on presidential level, Republicans have to think about the Senate. Real Clear Politics has a very interesting analysis. Namely, Trump machine and Democratic machine made a big bet to convince their propaganda targets to particular methods of voting: Trump -> voting in person, Democrats -> voting by mail or, even better, drop box (surely delivered). In previous years, voting by mail required "valid reasons" in most states, but COVID forced acceptance everywhere for everyone, although republicans tend to obstruct drop boxes.

So what good Republicans of Georgia ponder now is if this was not a huge mistake. To wit, they could loose some percentage of vote by attrition, people ready to vote in person but somehow not making it, the car did not start, the dog was cranky, hangover, whatever. Conversely, Democrats made some gains. At least, in Georgia. Those gains did not show up on the level of Congressional districts, mostly "safe", but clobbered them on statewide level. So now they will propagate mail voting. Note that with cold weather COVID infections increase, perhaps even as far south as Georgia, January weather may discourage going out, perhaps even in Georgia, so it is vital to embrace mail vote.

To conclude, Trump seemingly (and according to Pope, actually) lost to a very crappy candidate, which does not give credit to his personal qualities and strategies. Democrats, decrepit as they are, had a better campaign. Still, walking and chewing gum in the same time is hard, hence problems with the House and Senate. Will they consider less vacuous campaigns in the future? Gerontocrats on "both sides of the aisle" are slow to learn...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 13 2020 2:58 utc | 292

{snark}
Of course there was voter fraud, if only due to this logic: No third world country elections observers were present in US to oversee the polling places as they are expected to, by amercanskis in their home countries.
{/snark}

Keep your eyes on the show — let’s call it ‘As the Swamp Turns,’ shown to you. It’s a grand show. It is a show, where Karl Rove types make history, right in front of your eyes. And, you will study that, as he told you, you would. And while you’re studying that, more history is made. Yada, yada.

In the meantime, walk the earth. Enjoy breathing. One breath at a time.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 13 2020 4:01 utc | 293

I feel like Trump might fire Mark Milley.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 13 2020 4:40 utc | 294

Adding to the assured calamity is this by Giraldi, "Neocons Poised to Join New Government," announcing the almost certain return of the "Kaganate of Nulandia" while reminding us that the Neocons arose first as Ds in the 1970s. We should add it all to Pepe Escobar's "Return of the Blob" essay warning us what's in store if Biden was installed. So, it turns out there were very principled reasons to vote for Trump.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 13 2020 0:14 utc | 285

It is so hard to get rid of rose tinted glasses! Many folks think that Kaganate returned to its natural ancestral Khazaria, it was a fleeting presence. As far as I can tell, the grip of deep staters over all things Ukrainian never weakened, a feeble rebellion by Trump was immediately squashed. Just a little example: Trump's Administration imposed sanctions on Andrii Derkach because he interfered in American elections by publishing tapes of recorded conversations of Poroshenko with Biden (and to make it funnier, also with Putin), and full records of bank transfers from Burisma to Hunter Biden. So worried were Trump's appointees about possible aspersions on an important candidate in American elections!! But was it doing of Trump himself in a fit of fairness? Or Kaganatians were operating without any supervision: while in Kaganate, do what the Kagan says (or Nuland). On the basis of my model of Trumpian mentality, I would assume the latter.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 13 2020 4:43 utc | 295

Trump's Department of Homeland Security put out a statement that 2020 Election was the most secure in American history. I think Trump is going to fire Chris Krebs, the director of DHS' Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency for making that statement.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 13 2020 5:01 utc | 296

Grieved @ 275

Thank you. That is exactly how I intended it.

Anthony Sutton had access to the State Department's archives which is where the bulk of the material he used to write his books came from.

His books are a compelling read which exposes a side to international relations and events most are unfamiliar with.

Sutton's next three published books (Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, Wall Street and FDR and Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler) detailed Wall Street's involvement in the Bolshevik Revolution to destroy Russia as an economic competitor and turn it into "a captive market and a technical colony to be exploited by a few high-powered American financiers and the corporations under their control"[5] as well as its decisive contributions to the rise of Adolf Hitler and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whose policies he assessed as being essentially the same "corporate socialism," planned by the big corporations.[6]

Sutton concluded that it was all part of the economic power elites' "long-range program of nurturing collectivism"[3] and fostering "corporate socialism" in order to ensure "monopoly acquisition of wealth" because it "would fade away if it were exposed to the activity of a free market."[7]

Antony C. Sutton

I appreciate and understand that not everyone will agree with his conclusion but first read the books as I have (many are free online) before you criticise.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 13 2020 7:37 utc | 297

@Circe | Nov 13 2020 5:01 utc | 297

Department of Homeland Security put out a statement that 2020 Election was the most secure in American history
They want to rub it in your face, you know. But you have the mask on, obviously.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 13 2020 7:57 utc | 298

Circe | Nov 13 2020 5:01 utc | 297

Suspect AI Software Verified Mail-In Ballots With Little Human Oversight in Key Battleground States

11-9-20

Untested AI software was used to verify mail-in ballot signatures in highly contested localities like Clark County, Nevada. The company that produces it has close ties to Lockheed Martin and Microsoft and its founder has a bone to pick with Donald Trump.

Though accusations of election fraud in the 2020 US presidential election have been swirling across social media and some news outlets for much of the past week, few have examined the role of a little known Silicon Valley company whose artificial intelligence (AI) algorithm was used to accept or reject ballots in highly contested states such as Nevada.

That company, Parascript, has long-standing cozy ties to defense contractors such as Lockheed Martin and tech giants including Microsoft, in addition to being a contractor to the US Postal Service. In addition, its founder, Stepan Pachikov, better known for cofounding the app Evernote in 2007, is a long-standing and 2020 donor to Democratic presidential candidates.

Parascript’s AI software was used during this election in at least eight states for matching signatures on ballot envelopes with those in government databases in order to “ease the workload of staff enforcing voter signature rules” resulting from the influx of mail-in ballots. Reuters, which reported on the use of the technology, asked the company to provide a list of counties and states using its software for the 2020 election. Parascript, however, declined to supply the list, replying, instead, that their clients “included 20 of the top 100 counties by registered voters.”

. . .

Currently, US election infrastructure is overseen by the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), headed by Chris Krebs, who was a top Microsoft executive before taking on his current role. Under Krebs’s leadership, CISA’s 2020 election operations center includes representatives from major Silicon Valley companies, including Google, Facebook, and Twitter, as well as unspecified “election technology” companies. The center also works with the Center for Internet Security, which is funded by eBay billionaire Pierre Omidyar’s Democracy Fund and has several members of the Obama administration’s cybersecurity team and/or National Security Council on its board. Microsoft directly partnered with the Center for Internet Security’s efforts related to the 2020 election this past June and IBM is also partnered with the center.

[emphasis added]

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 13 2020 9:43 utc | 299

If there is one unfailing indication of the presence of an idiot it is the suggestion that the Bolshevik Revolution was funded by bankers and carried out by their dupes.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 12 2020 18:19 utc | 271

---
What a liar you are, Mr Bevin.

There is literally a mountain of evidence of the Bolscheviks being financed by NY Bankers. Jacob Schiff alone gave the at least 5 million, more than. Decade prior to the revolution.

I'd call you an idiot, but for that to be true you'd have to actully be ignorant regarding Schiff's financing of the Bolsheviks. But I know you're not, i have seen others inform you of this before, and seen you try to dismiss it. So, "liar" it is then

Posted by: Triden | Nov 13 2020 9:58 utc | 300

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