Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 11, 2020

How Trump Might Still Win

Trump currently seems likely to lose the fight over the election outcome. So far he has not shown any evidence that a significant extend of fraud has happened. While there will always be some votes in doubt the numbers in play now are not large enough to explain Biden's presumed victory. The courts are therefore likely to reject Trump's current challenges.

The media, including Murdoch's stable of right wing organs and the social media giants, have firmly declared a Biden victory and are thereby of no help for Trump.

But the Republican Party and Trump will want to keep fear, uncertainty and doubt alive at least until January 5 when the two Senate run-offs in Georgia get decided.

While the Republican incumbents are leading the race the Democrats will put a lot of resources into the state to move those seats to their side. They would give a Harris/Biden administration control over the Senate.

It is also possible that Trump may actually try to stay in office by manipulating the Electoral College process.

There are several more steps and deadline in the elaborate election process for the presidency.

  • Dec  8 - States determine their electors for the Electoral College.
  • Dec 14 - Electors meet in their states to cast their votes for the new President and Vice President.
  • Dec 23 - Certificates of the electoral vote results get delivered to the president of the Senate, who is Vice President Mike Pence
  • Jan  3 - Members of Congress are sworn in.
  • Jan  6 - Congress meets to count the electoral votes and declare the results.

Trump could, even without finding the necessary votes, (ab-)use the Electoral College process to shift the result to his side. He can try to block or delay certifications in certain states and/or he can push Republican state legislators to appoint Trump electors.

There is precedence for that from the 1876 election:

Then as now, each state must decide on a group of electors to meet with a joint session of Congress on January 6 where the winner of the presidential election is declared. The normal practice in a state where Biden won the popular-vote total would be for state election officials to certify the results and send a slate of electors to Congress. But state legislatures have the constitutional authority to conclude that the popular vote has been corrupted and thus send a competing slate of electors on behalf of their state.
The 12th Amendment to the Constitution specifies that the “President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” That means that in the case of disputes about competing electoral slates, the President of the Senate—Vice President Pence—would appear to have the ultimate authority to decide which to accept and which to reject. Pence would choose Trump. Democrats would appeal to the Supreme Court.

Alternatively, if at that point, no candidate has the required 270 electoral votes, the 12th Amendment stipulates, “the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote.” Currently, Republicans have a state delegation majority with 26 of the 50 states and they appear almost certain to keep that majority in the new Congress. A vote of the states would then elect President Trump for a second term. And again, Democrats would appeal that outcome to the Supreme Court.

In both cases the Supreme Court, with six of its nine judges nominated by Republicans, is likely to find in favor of Trump.

There are some variants of such a play:

If a lawsuit successfully stops certification of results in a state, legislators there could step into the void and pick a pro-Trump slate of electors.
  • The lawyer, who requested anonymity to speak about the scenario, said Trump's team now appears to be trying to throw enough dirt at the process for counting late ballots to argue that accurate results can't be ascertained.
  • The next step could be to try to get federal or state courts to enjoin secretaries of state from certifying results.
  • Any move to provide an alternative slate of electors could force the first real test of the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and could land before the Supreme Court.
  • Among the key swing states, Arizona and Georgia have GOP governors and legislatures. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have Democratic governors but GOP legislatures.

The Democrats are of course aware of such a possibility. They therefore play up the certainty of a Biden's victory even as the election process is far from decided.

But one should never count Trump out. Despite four years of getting Russiagate bullshit thrown at him he has managed to stay in office and to proceed with much of his program. He is also the first president in a 100 years who resisted the intense pressure to launch a new war. He is therefore unlikely to fold and to concede that he has lost the race.

There is only one person that could stop Trump from being successful with a 'dirty' Electoral College strategy. That is of course he himself. Over the last four years he has failed to select competent advisors. He will now need the best strategists and lawyers that are available. Jared Kushner and Rudi Giuliani will not do. Trump will also need the full backing of his party to put pressure on state legislators.  He will have to make concessions to get the necessary support.

Meanwhile we all, as bystanders, will have to up our popcorn supplies to sustain the next two month.

Posted by b on November 11, 2020 at 17:36 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@Zanon | Nov 11 2020 21:31 utc | 82

NATO says Biden victory will help with 'assertive Russia,' as influential Moscow MP warns Democrat sees country as 'main enemy'
https://www.rt.com/russia/506094-nato-biden-election-tensions/

As a Norwegian I can say with some authority that I know what the word "Quisling" means, and Stoltenberg is following in that "proud" tradition. He is a puppet and collaborator of the worst kind.

For those who don't know, Quisling was a member of the Norwegian pre-war government in the 1930's. When the German Nazis arrived in the morning of April 9, 1940 and the government and King escaped northwards, Quisling performed a Coup d'Etat by going on state radio and declared himself "Minister President", and collaborated with the Nazi occupation forces.

Everybody knew the meaning of the word "Quisling", even the Germans. The story goes that during the occupation, in one of the illegal resistance pamphlets there was a cartoon showing Herr Quisling going to Victoria Terasse (Nazi headquarters in Oslo) to visit Josef Terboven (German Reichskommissar for Norway):

Quisling arrives at the gate and says to the German guard: "I am Quisling"
The guard replies: "And your name please?"

Terboven and Quisling in 1942

He was executed in 1946.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 11 2020 22:20 utc | 102

@Posted by: AntiSpin | Nov 11 2020 21:56 utc | 92

Thnaks for the recommendation, I will bookmark them and i will be probably reading, may be when I retire.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 22:25 utc | 103

AntiSpin @92--

Thanks for your endorsement! I second Steffens's book and provide this bit from the 1957 version:

"Though Steffens' subject was municipal corruption, he did not present his work as an exposé of corruption; rather, he wanted to draw attention to the public's complicity in allowing corruption to continue. Steffens tried to advance a theory of city corruption: corruption, he claimed, was the result of 'big business men' who corrupted city government for their own ends, and 'the typical business man'—average Americans—who ignored politics and allowed such corruption to continue. He framed his work as an attempt 'to sound for the civic pride of an apparently shameless citizenship,' by making the public face their responsibility in the persistence of municipal corruption." [My Emphasis]

I'll point out that PavewayIV @20 and I are echoing Steffens's argument. In the first installment of his USA trilogy, The 42nd Parallel, John Dos Passos notes how everyone's hustling; everyone's on the take, a trait also portrayed by the movie The Sting. Many might think the art of being a grifter is one of many dysfunctional national traits only to discover when looking closer that having a grifter's tools was a key to surviving in such cities. The term nowadays is "Street Smarts." To suddenly "discover" the fantastic amount of corruption in contemporary America and thinking it new is as ironic as Casablaca's corrupt Captain Louis Renault just discovered gambling in his city.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 11 2020 22:26 utc | 104

Is it written in the US Constitution that elections must be hold in labor days? If that is so, another reason to reform that Constitution made only to asure a certain part of the population can vote.

For all what Trump followers here protest the results, I can not see anybody claiming for the elections being hold on Sundays when most of the population have time for to go voting, arranging that those who work even at Sundays are proived by their employers enough time to go voting.

This way the elections would not be rigged and unaccessible for most part of Us working class, especially those who live in balck neighborhoods.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 22:30 utc | 105

Karlofi @ 93:

"... Now I'm posing this as a serious question. What does the Duopoly gain from Biden that it can't get from Trump?"

Surely the money pump that was dispensing largesse to the post-Maidan regime in Ukraine via the contacts that regime has with the DNC (Crowdstrike, the Atlantic Council and the media who take the Atlantic Council's money, like Bellingcat for example) before 2017, and which must have dried up while Trump was President, will start up again should Biden last long enough past his inauguration. After all, you know he did indeed push former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to sack his Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin for continuing to investigate the activities of Mykola Zlochevsky and his company Burisma Holdings (at which Hunter Biden was on the Board of Directors) and even boasted about it.

With Biden at the helm, both Democrats and those Republicans (like Mitt Romney) who do not support Trump can push for further neoliberal, military and other activity against Russia in eastern Europe and Transcaucasia (Abkhazia, South Ossetia). They might also try to resurrect their war in Syria and ensure Syria can never get the Golan Heights back.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 11 2020 22:34 utc | 106

Basically, the Republicans are laying the ground to delegitimize another Democratic President. This is is how they keep their base frothing at the mouth in between Republican Presidents. There is absolutely no evidence of widespread election fraud. Top election officials in all 50 states have said as much, and that includes all of the red states. If such evidence does exist, why has no one presented it to the public? This is the exact same question that Russiagate skeptics asked with regard to the Russiagate conspiracy theory. And guess what? No evidence for that was ever brought forth.

Another big reason why Trump refuses to concede defeat is that he is using the recount and court challenge gambit to raise money to pay off campaign debts. In the fine print of his plea to donors, it says that the money raised may not be used for its stated purpose but may be put towards other needs. It’s a typical Trump grift.

Posted by: Rob | Nov 11 2020 22:34 utc | 107

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 22:00 utc | 94

Glad you got to come around Schmatz, much more productive this way.

Then you have not made the revolution, like many other of us, out of personal circunstances, maiinly that we are poor, and must espend most, if not all, of our time working hard to make a living.

That is the truth. Our material conditions are both our most significant constraint but also, imo, the only forge for the necessary class conscience. Most fellow comrades are struggling with day to day issues, there's hardly opportunity to uncover the shit we are thrown over beyond insulting the bastards. It is noticeable, with recent aggravations, that some curiosity arises, the usual MSM ridden preconceptions are overturned in minutes whereas previously they would require intricate arguments to develop. The themes of those are wide ranging and are being recentered on what matters. Don't lose an opportunity to fertilize their mind... keep positive and your spirits up Schmatz.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Nov 11 2020 22:35 utc | 108

"In both cases the Supreme Court, with six of its nine judges nominated by Republicans, is likely to find in favor of Trump."

kinda doubt it. they're corporate whores first and republicans second (if not third since i'm sure a few are rand reading "libertarians"). the actual heads of "state" in the banks, defense contractors and resource companies have settled on biden as their new bitch and laws are meaningless unless enforced.

luckily i despise every side so whoever "loses" and "wins", i'll still have a larf. for example: they both have asshole sons but biden's is more likely to end up dead and bloated in a thai brothel. they both look like sentient leather recliners but trump is more likely to have a full on "i'm coming elizabeth!" coronary on live television. plus the side splitting hilarity of the US collapsing no matter who gets installed as the quadrennial figurehead.

good times.

Posted by: the pair | Nov 11 2020 22:39 utc | 109

https://youtu.be/WZWRhLW7Y8w

This is the best explanation,
If a US President candidate
Refuse to conced..

Posted by: TIRED | Nov 11 2020 22:39 utc | 110

H.Schmatz @94--

Thanks for your reply! Yes, it's very hard to keep up at times, both with MoA and the world. And it's worse for one having English as a second language. Yes, our current Constitution is too old and has many flaws, most the result of the compromises made so it could be ratified. I think you'll be helped a lot by reading this short essay about the Electoral College's hows and whys.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 11 2020 22:39 utc | 111

H Schmatz @ 104:

In Australia, federal, state and local government elections are held on Saturdays and people also have the option of early voting during weekdays or sending in postal votes.

In most English-speaking countries, Sunday voting is not usual because Sunday is traditionally the Protestant Sabbath day, on which one is supposed to rest and not do any work. You and I know of course that most people in the Anglosphere wouldn't care two hoots if polling were held on Sundays, as not everyone goes to church that day or is even Christian.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 11 2020 22:43 utc | 112

Now BBC is making a big fuss that China hasn't congratulated Biden's election win.

MSM are so determined to set the tune for everyone to believe Biden has won the election before the official election result is announced.

Posted by: lulu | Nov 11 2020 22:45 utc | 113

"he resisted intense pressure for war" is incorrect. Trump killed Iran´s top general, cowardly. Iran´s restraint avoided war. the battery of sanctions & restrictions on the US. Dollar transactions all around the world is an act of war.

Posted by: nietzsche1510 | Nov 11 2020 22:49 utc | 114

@Posted by: Jen | Nov 11 2020 22:34 utc | 105

But if Atlantic Council is onlyy a DNC tool, how do you explain that under YTrump administration and Pompeo SoS it was Atlantic Council fellow Franak ViaÇorca who helped organize the Belarusina color revolution, to the extent that now he figures in his Twitter account as Tikhanovskaya´s personal advisor?

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 22:50 utc | 115

The Democrats are praying Biden even makes it to late January. A husk of a man. What the party is doing and what his family is doing to him is simply elder abuse. Any speaking of how he will hold on at least a year are just dreaming out loud.

Harris ended her primary candidacy after being eviscerated by Tulsi Gabbard. It took maybe thirty seconds of microphone time for Tulsi and then Harris was down for the count. She has shown nothing since then that makes her look like more than fluff. And of course we know she is for sale, Willie Brown told us so and she has basically confirmed that. In every sense she is for sale and has never had anything else to offer.

A week ago I was pretty sure any still extant Trump allies would desert the sinking ship. He is still a client no lawyer would want. Right now he might be up to a measurable sub- 1% chance. It will have nothing to do with facts or law. There will be no discovery, there will be no determination of facts. Election ‘facts’ are designed to be slippery. Election judges do not attempt to arrive at a determination of facts. They sniff the wind.

Heard a peep out of Hillary lately? Where is Obama hiding? Where is who hiding Joe?

The Polyannas and zombies on this thread will likely get their wishes.When Joe or a facsimile is President there will be 70 million who just don’t believe it. Just keep on being cavalier and dismissive and arrogant and superior. See how far it gets you.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 11 2020 22:54 utc | 116

Jen @105--

Thanks for your reply! IMO, there wasn't much drop-off in Color Revolution activity under Trump, and he followed fairly closely the National Defense Directives against both Russia and China. Perhaps its the blatant rejection of treaties since Biden has vowed to rejoin/renegotiate, particularly New START. Maybe it's resistance to a currently secret policy ploy like the Great Reset or Biden's announced very different approach to the pandemic or some other secret schism we're not privy to yet. I don't doubt the vote result here in Oregon since our system is extremely hard to violate in any massive manner--it was an emotional contest thus the high turnout. The joined Media Narrative is cause for concern for it signals another BigLie, and to go through that effort means a rather important motive.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 11 2020 23:01 utc | 117

Meanwhile, read that the last US 2020 election, without adding the cost of the incoming recounts, has been the most expensive so far, exactly costing double than the previous one, and this in the middle of a pandemic, when Wall Street has been already bailed out, but yet not the people...

I was reading the other day an OpEd about Melania, and got aware that her refusal to join in Trump in the WH for months costed also a lot to the public treasure....

Obviously, this people is not spending their money...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 23:04 utc | 118


Posted by: lysias | Nov 11 2020 22:11 utc | 97

The last two times, I voted for Jill Stein of the Greens. But this time I felt I had to vote against the plutocrats, and Trump was the guy most of the plutocrats most opposed.
___________________________________________________

The plutocrats appreciate your gullibility.
and the plutocrats hope that now that you have become invested emotionally in trump you will support the things trump does on the plutocrats behalf.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 11 2020 23:07 utc | 119

thanks b... an insightful post and you are tapping into the over riding question hanging in the air at present - what happens next?? good overview...

@ 20 paveway... nice to see you back!

@ 32 grieved... thanks... my thought as well...

@ 99 jen... thanks... ditto your comment too.. the media has set this up a certain way to really push it a particular way..

Karlofi @ 93 quote "... Now I'm posing this as a serious question. What does the Duopoly gain from Biden that it can't get from Trump?"

this is a good question karlof1.. one of the obvious answers is it looks like some sort of change is happening when in fact no change happens... change the chairs on the deck of the titanic, but you are still sailing on the titanic either way.. that is one thing... 2ndly - the agenda can be pushed with a velvet glove as opposed to an iron hand... not that biden is a velvet glove or trump is an iron hand - but you get the idea.. for those who live on the surface of things - most people - you can see the attraction for getting biden to push the same agenda here.. there may be other aspects to this i am missing..

i don't believe there is any difference in terms of support for israel and i do believe biden will be forced into finding a way to make war on iran -not that trump hasn't already done this in every way short of actual war on the country.. taking out irans general - soleimani was an act of war plane and simple... although it is argued trump didn't start a war, what is beyond dispute is his subservience to israel.. there will be no change under biden....

lets see how it pans out here moving into the inauguration date... i suspect biden gets in, but i hold out the possibility i am wrong..

Posted by: james | Nov 11 2020 23:15 utc | 120

Try looking at it this way,
Your favorite government's security/intel can tell you what flavor of boobs you most recently looked at on the internet, and where you were when you did so, and what time/date it was when such occured.
I'm pretty fuckin' sure they know that creepy joe did not 'win' shit.

Posted by: Josh | Nov 11 2020 23:15 utc | 121

From what I know and I have watched, since the point of view of a European Spanish average citizen, a bit informed in geopolitics:

Advantages of a Biden presidency:

1-We will not be sent thugs to twist our arms and menace our governments so as we pay more for US weapons to add to NATO resources or to obly us to renounce using Chinese 5G technology eventhough we find it more profitable.

2-May be courtesy and may be even diplomacy old school will return to political negotiations.

3-We will not be sent far-right hooligans trained by Bannon to stir up divide and old grudges so that to provoke our democratically elected government of mild left leaning to fall, which equates an intend of coup d´etat, a full attack on our sovereignty, and one would think an act of war.

4-There will be more stability and persepctive of future will be further from global confrontation with the possibility of Biden rejoining the JCPOA and accepting expanding New Start treaty for another 5 years, as he has slided he would do.

5-The possibility exist that he takes another approach to China too, eliminating another point of international turmoil and friction, so that we all can beneffit from China´s astounding progress and achievements.

Advantages of Trump presidency:

-NONE

This, could explain why congratulations run so fast from European countries, not mine as I am aware, but definitely, understandable, I guess...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 23:22 utc | 122

james @119--

Thanks for your reply! I just looked in at a few websites to see what's been happening. This Sputnik report based on this Axios report may provide an answer if it's confirmed by subsequent events:

"A senior adviser brought on by acting US Defense Secretary Christopher Miller could mean the administration wants to accelerate its planned troop withdrawals before US President Donald Trump’s tenure ends on January 20, 2021."

Note this reporter following the Establishment narrative. The article also cites a Bloomberg report about troops being evacuated from Somalia. Trump has always said he wanted to bring home troops. If he does succeed in doing so and very soon, he'll certainly increase the Red Tide backing him and perhaps throw a wrench in Deep State plans. It seems he's removed any obstacle at the Pentagon. So, we'll wait and see.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 11 2020 23:31 utc | 123

Walter @ 76

"Fair question. I think we tried, Then the fascist cabal murdered every leader and spread dope everywhere."

Interesting. Never quite saw it that way before but damn true.

Posted by: arby | Nov 11 2020 23:31 utc | 124

Advantages of Trump presidency:

A significant majority actually voted for him. What else should it take?

Posted by: blues | Nov 11 2020 23:31 utc | 125

@ 121 h schmatz... in other words you like the deceit served via a pretty velvet glove, lol... okay... you figure the usa isn't going to strong arm europe with biden...i can't see it myself.. it will be served up nice though and apparently that is good enough to convince most things have returned to normal.. i personally don't think there is a return to normal here... we are not in normal times and we are not headed for normal times.. that era is over.. as in ova and out...

Posted by: james | Nov 11 2020 23:33 utc | 126

PavewayIV @ 20 seys: The founders of the U.S., above all else, intended to frame the constitution and form a state that was as resistant to corruption and exploitation by power- and control-seeking psychopaths. They didn't intent the constitution to be a sacred relic of worship, and they didn't intend the state to morph into an authoritarian religion where skeptics are terroristic heretics. They acknowledged the impossibility of assurring that by the constitution and state it described. They depended on future generations of U.S. citizens to change the constitution as conditions required to keep out the psychopaths. We, in the U.S., have dropped the ball on hardening the state from corruption by psychopaths. Worse yet, we can't even recognize psychopaths and actually enable and embrace their rule. The founders of the U.S. couldn't possibly have foreseen the knuckle-dragger citizenry we have today depending on an automatic, self-driving government.


Winston2 @ 27 responds to 8 Tell me where in the Constitution is says the popular vote was ever meant to matter in a Presidential election ?
The whole point of the EC was that it didn't if it didn't agree with our owners wishes. by: winston2 @ 27

Grieved @ 32 seys: Both the rising and the falling are already happening, ..the eyes of more of the US populace are being exposed to a government that seems strange to them.. <=Its an oligarchic dicatorship, not a democracy.

Hoarsewhisperer @ 35 seys: the Swamp ..runs America from the shadows. <= .they are the wealthy globalist.

Karlof1 @ 42 seys: A state's popular vote determines which candidate is supposed to win its electoral votes.<= haha .. thanks for the joke.. politics at the state level is hand in the cookieeee jar..in the unlighted room.


lysias @ 45 seys: Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution, on the selection of electors, makes no mention of the popular vote. It does, however, give state legislatures the power to determine how electors are to be chosen.

<=That's right and on Dec 8, 1803 just 5 years after the 2nd USA government first meet, it made it even more clear, the deplorables are to have no say in the office of government that controls foreign activities of the USA military, no say in the USA government that deals in treaties, and no say in the appointment of USA diplomats to foreign nations. In other words, protecting corruption in out of sight places was a first object of the Oligarch Framers. .. I keep telling everyone, the problems we all talk about at Bs bar can each and every one be traced to the failure of Bar Members to understand that the Framers intended to use the USA to do to the Americans the USA would govern just exactly what the British had done to the Americans while the British were in control. The First President of the United States was John Hanson (1781).

take a look at
1. Article V No one (<=not within the control of those in command of Federalism) are allowed to amend the constitution

2. Article VI What meaning is in the clause "All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this shall be as valid against the USA under this Constituion, as under the Confederation.
Just which engagements were the fat cats Framers trying to protect? What were they fearful the constitution might eliminate; when their own constitution was ratified.. After all the constitution was the doing of of the FAT Cat Framers, it was their way of suppressing the
Democracy <=Freshly Independent Americans were so proud of..
Think about it.. government contracts, slave contracts, land grant claims to most of the land east of the Mississippi, international deals with foreign nations and on and on and on..

3. Article VI[2] the so called Supremacy clause <= its federalism delivered complete control to the ex British Aristocrats.
these were the owners of the land grants, slaves and corporations George Washington was one of the richest persons in America.
I can find no part of the constitution that is about democracy for those in the governed classes. Think hard, Why were not <=the Bill of rights=> part of the original constitution (all Ten Amendments (BORs) were made effective on December 15, 1791..)?
Maybe the Framers were not interested in protecting the rights of the governed? These Federalist were representatives of fat Cats; the Fat Cats intended to trash the Articles of Confederation by replacing the AoC with their federalist Republican constitution <= that little trick transformed control of the government from the people (a democracy) so many had died to get; to an Aristocrat's Republic (a Republican Government).

Forcing the 1st ten amendments (BoRs) into the Constitution was all the salvation and protection the people's democracy could muster. It was difficult to manage against the massively powerful Aristocratic Framers and their corporations who were planning to use the Constitution to demolish democracy and take over control of America. How many of those who would be the governed were consulted on the matter of ratifying the constitution? Did those to be governed know what was happening? Were those who ratified the constitution the governed masses?


4. Article VII Ratification of the conventions (<=at Philadelphia) shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this constitution. Show me where the governed masses ever had a chance to speak up against the constitution? The masses were over powered and out maneuvered.

i stand to be corrected.. so please feel free.. i want the truth.. nothing more nothing less. the above is what i understand.. without more, I just can't agree with PavewayIV at 20 ..

the question why swamp prefers Biden to Tramp <=might be Murdoc vs. the casino king

Posted by: snake | Nov 11 2020 23:35 utc | 127

ABC Australia's take on the 1876 US elections and the compromise result:

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/nightlife/this-week-in-history-the-1876-us-election-dispute/12862150

Posted by: Paul | Nov 11 2020 23:36 utc | 128

@ 122 karlof1... thanks for the link to the axios article... they will need to get the troops out of afgan if they want to go to war with iran as i see it.. it would be a nice poke in the eye to the incoming admin too though.. i can't see it.. wall st would not approve, lol..

Posted by: james | Nov 11 2020 23:37 utc | 129

This metric of reasoning is simple, but quite effective.

Posted by: Josh | Nov 11 2020 23:37 utc | 130

@karlof / james

any trump troop pullout before his eviction from WH can be easily reverses by biden later of by transfering more troops in the areas.. nothing here to see except seen as irresponsible move by trump as he have 4 years to pull the troops out but only willing to push it at the last hour.

i do hope trump fight biden and his enablers support him by wresting the nomination from biden. Thats when we all see the US will be in such a state of mess and civil war , it have no energy to mess with other nations as it already planned to do.

witness pompeo in panic as he tried hard to keep trump the clown in power as it enables him and his israleli masters to enact war with iran if trump in power.

The israeli playing dangerous game here with US internal politics

Posted by: milomilo | Nov 11 2020 23:40 utc | 131

2Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 23:22 utc | 121

Forgot to add another advantage of Biden´s presidency:

6-The US will join in in an internationaly coordinated scientific approach to combat the pandemic facilitating its overcome, by sharing protocols, and may be even come to agree in not politicizing vaccines and meds for Covid-19 and supporting Mr. Putin´s initiative on making of Covid-19 vaccines a human legacy available to all people in the world.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 11 2020 23:46 utc | 132

H.Schmatz #53

It is my impression that there is a whole network of "influencers" in the net trying to tear the system apart to built something different from ashes...This is done by people who, obviously do not see themselves being part of the final ashes from which to built, as sure of having a good refuge while the turmoil endures.


There is also a century+ network and infrastructure of anti socialist practice that infiltrates and derails and murders effective development of a socialist alternative. Consider the greens and Sanders - good intentions / aspirations or controversial and focused on tiny minorities but thoroughly limited either by their being lured into adopting policy scenarios that are rabidly attacked. The Greens are marooned by both internal idiocy in selecting their leadership candidates in a process that conforms to the paradigm of idiocy established by the duopoly plus a policy platform that needs to be continuously advocated to be remotely effective. I see Sanders performance as being made to order as an exemplar of how the 'machinery' will grind you into submission or defeat - hence despair and dis-empowerment for the supporters. Sanders capitulation and endorsement of the class enemy was craven in 2020.

Add to that the 'calls for revolution' or 'destruction of the system' which is merely a means for the state apparatus to identify the network of radicalism and destroy it or, more likely, enable it as a useful means of frightening/terorising the people to keep away from 'those types' and their 'anarchy' - hence dampening revolt fervour.

I was disappointed in the equivocation and faux posturing of Jesse Ventura and I guess he is a total flake or the recipient of a direct and unambiguous message. The 2020 election build up was likely an immense intimidation and influencing/whispering exercise by the demonazis to neuter third party - AGAIN ! Something like 'if third party run against us Trump will win' - weep and moan etc.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 12 2020 0:05 utc | 133

Theoretically it's possible but the problem is this: why would the Republicans enter this meat grinder for Trump?

Trump's last leverage against Mitch McConnell was the SCOTUS nomination. He could've told him: if you want this nomination, back me up at any cost in these elections. But he was hasty and nominated Amy Comey Barrett immediately. By doing so, he rendered himself completely disposable to the Republican establishment.

The Republicans don't need Trump to govern. They already made Obama a lame duck president for the last six of his eight years of government; they've already mastered the art of micro-politics.

And no, Biden will not abandon Trump's anti-China grand strategy. He already told so. Besides, an anti-China strategy wasn't Trump's idea: it was Hilary Clinton's (Pivot to Asia).

The only different ingredient I can see here that can shift the winds to Trump's favor is his appeal to the masses: it will be interesting to observe how much of his base is pro-Trump and how much is simply anti-communist. The American people don't need Trump to perpetuate anti-communism.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 0:10 utc | 134

In general, I think the burden of proof should be on election officials to show that their vote counting processes are fair, honest and open. When I cast my ballot recently here in Southern California, it was electronically scanned - which meant that at least the voting machine knew for whom I voted. I received _nothing_ confirming my votes: no grocery tape printout, nothing on a screen and I can't check on a website. Why on earth should I just trust that what I marked was faithfully recorded? I get more of a record buying a pack of gum.
There are two aspects to all of this: one is legal, that is to say what you can prove in a court of law. Thanks to making ID requirements illegal, it is virtually impossible to prove fraud (ie, no way of knowing who actually cast the ballot). The other aspect is trust in the process, which is equally important. As far as the latter is concerned, it is far better to assume the process is flawed and make it incumbent on the election officials to offer evidence it is not.
Whether or not Trump wins any of the lawsuits, I think it is within his rights to bring them. If they uncover any fraud, that is still a good thing - even if he ends up losing the election.

Posted by: ian | Nov 12 2020 0:13 utc | 135

@Posted by: snake | Nov 11 2020 23:35 utc | 126

Interesting reflections.

the other day I was reading an OpEd on the so sanctified Funding Fathers of the US where the author came to conclude that these were a colony of religious fanatics shipped to the Americas to fight the Spanish Empire, a Catholic superpower at the time... Once there, they split into two factions, the Puritans, and the others ( can not recall the nick name...)and to this very day they keep fighting for grabbingpower, obviating anytime the interests of the growing masses.

Then you have that today, the masses are others, many people who can not date their ancestors to the Fuding Fathers ( as he does often, for example, Pat Lang..:) but who are US citizens and contribute to the building of the nation. These are the ones Trump, his followers, donors and ideologues, and most of the Republican Party, want to keep out of politics, not to say out of power.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 0:14 utc | 136

Should Trump wish to obliterate the Democratic Party, it is not by winning the 2020 election.

Let Biden take over a bubble economy and apply lockdowns and 5tr deficits. The crash will arrive in spectacular form, along with rioting out of control.

While Trump campaigns across the Heartland until 2024. Perversely, the networks will still cover Trump for their ratings. The Republican Party will remain Trump property until further notice.

Like Grover Cleveland, 1880-1892, Trump could two of three Presidential elections.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Nov 12 2020 0:17 utc | 137

Thanks to Carlton Meyer @ 57. I would be surprised if Trump creates disorder within the electoral college scenario. But then, I don't follow these things as carefully as others, nor do I have the same historical views. I remember when Grieved suggested that perhaps neither candidate deep down wants to win. And for each there are skeletons' bony appndages stuck in the doors of closets,so some wheeling and dealing might be underway with respect to those. We've learned that much goes on behind closed doors, and I for one didn't begin to assess what Clinton had been doing until many years afterwards, thanks to comments such as those of posters here.

Does Trump really want four more years of combat? Maybe he does. I would put forward that maybe his approach in this interim time is simply to give his supporters the opportunity to be able to say, "We fought a good fight," and "God bless him, he tried." Or "He's not a quitter, say that for him!" That's the kind of legacy he cares about, I think.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 12 2020 0:32 utc | 138

Trump will win, because the mind-boggling scale and sheer openness of this electoral fraud should make it relatively easy to uncover. Whatever the outcome, USA is basically done as a single country, and is on its way to eventual and not too distant dissolution. The Empire is rotten to the core and is not salvageable.
In the meantime, it's really funny how US media is basically begging both Putin and Xi to congratulate Biden and validate this atrocity by their implicit recognition.

Posted by: Venom | Nov 12 2020 0:45 utc | 139

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//
Trump will win, because the mind-boggling scale and sheer openness of this electoral fraud should make it relatively easy to uncover. Whatever the outcome, USA is basically done as a single country, and is on its way to eventual and not too distant dissolution. The Empire is rotten to the core and is not salvageable.
In the meantime, it's really funny how US media is basically begging both Putin and Xi to congratulate Biden and validate this atrocity by their implicit recognition.

Posted by: Venom | Nov 12 2020 0:45 utc | 138
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That sounds just about right.

Posted by: blues | Nov 12 2020 0:53 utc | 140

Karlof1 @ 93

Excellent question! I can only answer by expressing my personal reasons for wanting this settled for President Trump. I've no idea if these reasons in any way reflect upon the Duopoly's opposition to him.

1) I hate bullies. The ganging up on Trump by the entire MSM(even Fox) and tech giants is outrageous. It's ironic as he has often been a bully in foreign policy. On those occasions I support Iran/Venezuela/etc and am against Trump. In his defence I'd point out that every US president would behave, more or less, the same way. Washington DC is the real bully.

2) All the oligarchs are against Trump. Any enemy of yours is a friend of mine.

3) Likewise the Looney Left is against him. Nothing I hate more than limiting freedom of expression through political correctness.

4) As for political incorrectness, Trump is the only western leader to be against lockdowns and mandatory wearing of masks or vaccines. That makes him the only leader who respects people's civil liberties.

5) Fair play. It's so obvious there was fraud. We knew in advance there would be fraud - look at the Dem primaries of 2016 & 2020. It's not just about saving western democracy(I'm not sure it's worth saving given the state of our media) it's about right and wrong. Decent people should always oppose cheating. I think we hate the oligarchs so much because we sense their wealth is mostly ill gotten gains.

I'm shocked I have so many reasons in favour of Trump. That reflects poorly on the state of the Dems, the media and the Left. #4 might touch on your Duopoly question. If there is a Great Reset in the works then Trump is the worst gremlin possible to throw into the plan.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 12 2020 1:02 utc | 141

Liberty Blogger @136

That sounds about right. Sort of a silver lining in a dark cloud. But will there still be a country for Trump to win in 2024? Another problem is that if they can rig the election when not in power then what more can they do in power. One party state?

Personally I have American friends and would never wish for them to have to spend four years trying to avoid all the lunatics on the Left, backed by all the power of the state. In fact, I wouldn't wish that fate upon anyone.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 12 2020 1:29 utc | 142

"There is only one person that could stop Trump from being successful with a 'dirty' Electoral College strategy. That is of course he himself. Over the last four years he has failed to select competent advisors. He will now need the best strategists and lawyers that are available. Jared Kushner and Rudi Giuliani will not do. Trump will also need the full backing of his party to put pressure on state legislators. He will have to make concessions to get the necessary support."

This doesn't seem to have earned the attention it deserves, I think. Advising Trump to get competent hatchetmen and make corrupt deals with Republican state legislators is openly supporting Trump no matter what. I suppose you can falsely argue it's more honorable than pretending to believe Trump actually won the vote. That's a false argument because shamelessness is not courage or any other admirable thing.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 12 2020 1:32 utc | 143

karlof1 @Nov11 21:59 #93

What does the Duopoly gain from Biden that it can't get from Trump?

The way this question is formulated makes it a bit of a trick question. The Duopoly is not an end in itself. As managers of the Empire, the Deep State (aka "Security State") runs the Duopoly. So the better, more appropriate question is: What does the Deep State want?

And since Trump is as much a Deep State partner as Biden, it is perhaps more strange that Trump is not giving in (if Biden is the Deep State favorite). I doubt that Trump would make such trouble for his Deep State comrades.

Aside: The notion that the Deep State backs the Democrats over Trump is baloney. IMO that was deliberately set up fakery that was needed for Russiagate (which was just McCarthyism) and easy win for Trump (against establishment forces) that would endear him to his MAGA followers.

Over the past several weeks I've written (many times) that the Deep State might back a re-invigorated Trump Presidency if they are planning for war. A landslide victory for Trump would've been ideal but a come-from-behind victory from a tenacious Trump might be nearly as effective.

The history of the last three decades show that Republican's wage major wars while Democrats wage small and/or covert wars (liberal interventions) and regime changes. Republicans will never relinquish the patriotic mantle that allows them to trump (pun intended) the left's aspirations.

If Trump wins, he will be positioned to take the country to a major war.

Trump's winning has been telegraphed to us via the previous failures (all kayfabe) of the Democrats to unseat him (Russiagate, impeachment) or offer any effective resistance to his MAGA plans. With this backdrop, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the Democrats have never effectively countered Trump's claims that Biden and the Democrats are an existential danger to America. Trump has not simply run against Biden but against the chimera of a "radical left" that will bring socialist tyranny, corruption, violence, and decay.

That doesn't meant that a major war would be impossible under Biden but it would not be ideal to anyone planning for war.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 1:34 utc | 144

I feel there is a coordinated effort to keep hope alive and us distracted so banks can continue looting and to soften the blow and so they can max plans to vacinate us all in return for food - we are truly reduced to cattle. Moo.

Posted by: jared | Nov 12 2020 1:42 utc | 145

It's strange to me how little concern there is here for the possibility for war from a second-term Trump who has been very belligerent and/or the Deep State Empire managers that both Trump and Biden work for/with.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 1:48 utc | 146

The Putz-in-Chief got his sewn-in hairpiece wet today at Arlington National Cemetary, and bone spurs draft dodger saluted for the cameras like the fake he is and touchingly put his hand on the wreath commemorating soldiers who died on the battlefield and lingered in that pose while I was reminded he had his own private Vietnam hopping around from one bed to another risking catching std's with all that promiscuity he engaged in according to his confession to the Reverend Howard Stern.

Then, as I suspected, the whole sordid poser scene was set to melodramatic music and surprise-surprise! the video appeared on his twitter just like the balcony video of his triumphant return to the White House after catching and surviving what he had once described as the Flu.

The whole Veterans Day commemoration was exactly as I perceived it to be: ALL ABOUT HIM; the supreme asshole Trump pretending to be something he will never be: dignified.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 12 2020 2:07 utc | 147

karlof1, I'm impressed by your bio (I'm a 'magna' myself - our college rarely gave out summas). And as you know I very much appreciate your many links when I have time to read them. I do have two queries - won't call them questions as they are a bit unformulated as many of my posts are. With respect to the naturalization oath of office - well, I did take that one some time ago, mid Clinton years actually. Were I to take it today, the hazard I would face, being elderly, and also in light of the bellicosity of recent leaders, is that I would not be able to swear that I would take up arms in defence of the country. So, I am stating that loud and clear here, and my question would be does that put me in jeopardy of being deported - well, I wouldn't mind that, to tell the truth. My native land is doing a sight better on covid these days - I miss being able to hug my kids and grandkids. And in that respect, how come naturalized citizens are bound by such an oath and native born aren't? I mean, sure if there were a draft, but there isn't.

Second bit, voting is a right, and very many like me have thought about it long and hard, and decided not to. I love the historical process that was the creation of a Constitution back in the day, even though I am only an amateur at understanding it. I went to college very close to D.C., even got to listen to Lomax's recordings of Leadbelly in the basement of the Library of Congress. My heart is here, my own experience settling that question historically speaking. If the Constitution required me to vote I would, but it doesn't. I like that. So when you say it's a duty and castigate those who don't, you lose me and a lot of others. Because when we don't vote we've thought long and hard about it, and not because we are lazy or don't care about the country. It's a matter of conscience, not my country right or wrong. That's a bad thing I would never swear to. So,you lost me on that one. And it wasn't in my oath of citizenship either, so I don't think they will deport me on that one. The duty of a citizen? I think it is to do our best, whatever age we are given to reach (and mine's getting respectable now) to love and support this country as best we know how to do. And sometimes that means taking a stand against what we would most prefer to be doing at this point in time, because conscience trumps everything political, it really does.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 12 2020 2:08 utc | 148

@133 vk

Once again, vk, you prove how terrified you are of DJT.

He is the Hegelian World-Historical figure that is greatly loved by his supporters.

"The GOP doesn't need him."

Sure dude.

Watch Fox News fade into RINO-status to diminished viewership as Trump gets a TV contract to carry the phenomenon to the only place it can go: UP!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 12 2020 2:20 utc | 149

I also only got a magna in Princeton in 1968, but I thought that that was compensated by, after military service, getting First Class Honours at Oxford in 1974, when a First in Greats still meant something.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 12 2020 2:22 utc | 150

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 1:34 utc | 143

The history of the last three decades show that Republican's wage major wars while Democrats wage small and/or covert wars (liberal interventions) and regime changes. Republicans will never relinquish the patriotic mantle that allows them to trump (pun intended) the left's aspirations.

I don't think this holds water. What I see is a clear pattern of decline:

1) George H. W. Bush directly invades Iraq with legitimate American forces. It a full-fledged invasion, the first war declared for explicitly economic purposes by the USA. Nobody finds it weird or contests it, because the USA had just emerged victorious from the Cold War and is now the sole superpower;

2) Bill Clinton, in order to not rub American supremacy on everybody's faces, invades Somalia and annihilates Yugoslavia with legitimate American forces behind a UN flag. He wins Yugoslavia but doesn't manage to do a Communist Nürnberg Trial, and loses in Somalia. The first chink in the armor of the sole hegemon;

3) George W. Bush wins through electoral fraud (Florida). 9/11 happens with his blessing. He then has to do a kabuki in order to blame it all on Iraq and Afghanistan. Even then he doesn't earn the UN's blessing. He invades Iraq and Afghanistan with legitimate American forces and wins in Iraq. He takes Iraq's oil reserves, but the objective doesn't solve America's economic problems. Afghanistan turns into a swamp. He fails to invade Iran and fails to bomb North Korea. He loses against Russia in Georgia. The USA still is able to invade other countries and destroy them with legitimate American forces, but with much more difficulty and not always achieving what it wants. For the first time since the beginning of the End of History invasions are halted before they even begin;

4) Obama has to begin his government with a mammoth USD 1.1 trn unconditional bailout to America's big banks and other companies. He tries to make a profit from the occupation of Iraq by recalling American troops and substituting them with drones and mercenaries (Blackwater). Afghanistan continues to drain the coffers. Russia rises. China rises. He pathetically tries to invade Syria with auxiliaries (ISIS) and fails utterly (Russia even imposes a no-fly zone to NATO/USA). Invasions are then further scaled down to color revolutions (Ukraine, etc.). South China Sea is lost without even a fight. Ukraine is partitioned by Russia after the color revolution and NATO loses the Black Sea forever;

5) Trump cannot even begin a new war. He contents himself with color revolution in Latin America, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Belarus and other Central Asian countries. For the first time since the End of History, a POTUS tries to be friends with a previous enemy nation (North Korea and Russia). For the first time, a color revolution is reverted in Latin America (Bolivia), while a clandestine invasion of Venezuela also fails.

So, the pattern here is clearly one of decline. At the beginning of the End of History (1991), the USA can invade anyone with its regular forces, legally and with the blessing of the UN and NATO - and wins all those conflicts. Then, it begins to lose or at least not completely win - but still do the whole thing legally, with regular forces and with blessings. Then it still is capable of invading and winning - but not legally and not with the blessing of even the main NATO allies (France and Germany); also, even when it wins, it is clear it was not what the Empire needed to stay afloat. Then, it has to abandon any prospects of invasion by regular forces, having to resort to color revolutions and clandestine auxiliaries (terrorist armies). Then it is not even capable of doing those color revolutions successfully anymore (except in Latin America - the Empire's historical little bitch, so it doesn't really count).

The conclusion we can reach here is that Trump didn't initiate any new war for the simple fact he couldn't: the Empire is overstretched, its resources dwindling.

With Biden, I think we'll witness this process deepening, but in another key:

Biden Outlines Plans to Reset U.S. Foreign Policy After Trump

“Political wisdom holds that Americans, the American public, doesn’t vote on foreign policy,” he said in New York, speaking before a crowd that included some former diplomats. “But I think that’s an old way of thinking. In 2019 foreign policy is domestic policy in my view. And domestic policy is foreign policy.”

With Biden, we can see for the first time in American history the USA officially admitting it is an empire. The American people will be directly involved and voting and supporting for foreign policy, i.e. invasions and interventions. Domestic policy will fuse with foreign policy, in a typical imperial metamorphosis. There will be no going back, it will be a war of annihilation between the USA (I'm here including its provinces) and the rest of the world. As the famous Soviet epic once said, it will be a battle not for glory, but "for life on Earth".

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 2:30 utc | 151

juliania @Nov12 2:08 #147

voting is a right

It should be a Constitutional right in a country that claims that it's citizens are sovereign. But it isn't. Millions are disenfranchised as a result (mostly ex-cons - who AFAIK are mostly people of color).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 2:31 utc | 152

Re: 145 Jackrabbit,

I don't discount the possibility of Trump starting a war in a hypothetical second term, the issue is simply in comparison to the Biden/Harris team. I would say Trump would have a 50/50 chance of starting a war with Iran, Syria or Venezuela and maybe a 20% chance of blundering into a war with Russia, China or North Korea. Normally these odds would be awful, but I'm 100% certain that Biden/Harris will start a war Syria or some African country like Libya (under Obama the US started expanding military outposts in Africa, the first step to a major US intervention) . More importantly I think Biden/Harris would have a 60% chance of blundering into a war with Russia out of sheer hubris and recklessness thinking that the Russians will backdown if given a bloody nose. In essence, Trump might trigger a disastrous regional war with a few hundreds of thousands of dead but Biden/Harris are more likely to trigger World War 3 with Hundreds of millions of dead.

For those people who think Biden/Harris will provide a "more steady hand" in Foreign policy, just remember it was under the Obama/Biden that the US provoked the coup in Ukraine and then allowed the CIA and the Pentagon to fight a three-sided proxy war against against each other and Assad in Syria, with the CIA backing ISIS & Turkey and the Pentagon backing the Kurds. Allowing your own departments to wage proxy wars against each other in other countries leads me to believe that Biden will be so beholden to the M.I.C. that he will allow them to start wars on their own initiative as long as he doesn't have to get involved publicly, this is a terrible trait for any leader (in fact, this is an anti-leadership trait - it means Biden is basically a figurehead for the Deep State/interagency bureaucracy). Even if Biden/Harris avoid a Cuban Missile Crisis like event with Russia, once government departments start wage wars against each others staff in other countries eventually that sort of attitude will come back to the United States proper (just like the Colour revolutions doctrine) For example, in 1930s Imperial Japan, the Army and Navy regularly assassinated Generals / Admirals during department powerplays regarding changes to defense policy and funding.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 12 2020 2:35 utc | 153

@PavewayIV | Nov 11 2020 18:44 utc | 20
I hear you. My position was that good forces must try to uphold the law when psychopaths try to crush the last remains of civility. Maybe too naive. The alternative is very frightening. Things are spiralling downwards.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 11 2020 18:51 utc | 24

Are you European or American? If American I would like to object to your use of west, whatever that is supposed to mean:
If this fraud stands, elections are no more in the west.

Your election fraud expert is an interesting guy. Too lazy to look up his brothers-in-arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_Ayyadurai

Besides, once again if American will you join the “Million MAGA March” gathering in DC to protest the election fraud? Or are you locked up in Norway?

Posted by: vig | Nov 12 2020 2:50 utc | 154

150+ comments and some good perspectives and some drivel making this place read like ZH commentary

Summing up what a number of commenters have said,

Trump will likely fail to change the outcome but he is keeping focus away from increasing Covid infections/deaths during the rest of his time in office and the effort will likely reduce his political debt.

Karlof1 asked what the difference in outcomes is and I think Trump has done what he was tasked to do, radically change the trajectory of America to either support the bullying of China/Russia/et al or prepare America for a Reset and financial collapse from the hollowing out and financialization of everything.
Trump was unable to bully China into continuing the global private finance control world wide and so, because of the global debt/Reserve Currency inflations, have set the world on a coarse for meltdown and contrived social conflict. When the crash occurs and "parties" get together to form the new world order, China and Russia will be at the table but, if international financial law is upheld, the global elite with the appropriate derivatives that make them owners of everything will be the only other party at the table.

The Reset is occurring before the natives get their shit together to force evolution to total sovereign/public finance/banking throughout the world.

The shit show continues to keep everyone entertained while rape and pillage go on behind the scenes.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 12 2020 2:51 utc | 155

vk @Nov12 2:30 #150

I don't think this holds water. What I see is a clear pattern of decline:

You are waaay too optimistic.

Republicans Bush Sr. and GWBush each sent hundreds of thousands of troops into battle.

Democrats Clinton and Obama conducted small and/or covert wars.

Trump hasn't started a "major war" but he has laid the groundwork for it with his:

  • acts of war

    - two unjustified missile attacks against Syria;

    - occupying Syrian territory;

    - assassinating Iranian Gen. Soleimani;

    - reneging on a peace agreement with North Korea;

    - seizing Venezuelan State assets and promoting a coup;

    - supporting coups and color revolutions in Bolivia, Hong Kong, and Belarus

    - crossing Chinese 'red lines' by selling advanced arms to Taiwan;

    - terminating peace treaties and arms pacts and militarizing space;

    - thumbing his nose at UN Resolutions regarding Golan Heights and Palestinians;

    - continuing with USA occupation of Afghanistan and support of Saudi war in Yemen.

  • vast military build-up
  • belligerent rhetoric
  • stroking of MAGA Nationalism.

It is simply wishful thinking to expect that there will not be a war (probably major war) during a Trump second term.

Biden might also take USA to war but Trump's patriotic MAGA nationalists would cheer a war if Trump is President.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 2:52 utc | 156

2. This fraud has been organized for months by the democratic party and their oligarchic bosses.
Posted by: dh-mtl | Nov 11 2020 18:38 utc | 15

This fraud campaign has been prepared month ahead and announced by the master piedpiper.

I surely hope you already donated lavishly to the Trump fraud fund. Norway too, I hope.

Posted by: vig | Nov 12 2020 2:57 utc | 157

Red Ryder #100

Thank you, that saker video is an astounding presentation and I would find it extremely hard to believe the linear movement to be a mere artifact of counting. I will be interested to see the continuing debate around this. Some equivalent data mapping needs to be shown for numerous hand counted counties. I would like to see a refutation or even a second analysis.

The pattern of repetition by machine counting needs a much greater sample of comparison with Hand counting.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 12 2020 3:02 utc | 158

Kadath @Nov12 2:35 #152

Thanks for your comments. I don't think you've addressed my main point.

My contention is that Republicans (home of the 'patriots') are more likely to conduct major wars and Trump's MAGA nationalist followers would happily help stoke war fever when Trump calls for that.

By his many "victories" (mostly faked) - against Democrats, Covid-19, Israel's enemies, etc. - Trump is becoming a large-than-life character/"hero" that a come-from-behind victory will make even more adored.

It's this kind of leader that can easily take the country to war.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 12 2020 3:04 utc | 159

People keep talking about how the "Great Reset" is coming and how the Elites will restructure everything to fulfill their dystopian vision of how society, wealth and power should be structured. I agree that the Western political/Economic elites have their plan and will be attempting it, however failure has consequences. The Western elites have basically failed that everything they've attempted for that last 30 years, nothing has lived up to the promises that they were sold to the people with. Quite likely that was by design, but just like the Soviet Union, Tsarist Russia, Pre-Revolutionary France, late Qing-era China, eventually the commoners give up on the elites and are no longer willing to sacrifice to protect them or obey them for stability. If the current crop of geriatric leaders in the West (most of whom are 70+yrs old), try to throw all established cultural/social/historical norms on the bonfire to create their new vision of the world I have a feeling that most people will look at their history of 30 years of failure and just write them off, ignore or undermine their plans and start looking for new elites to elevate. The Soviet Union had likewise been in decline for almost 30 years when it suddenly collapsed, the Western countries post-WW 2 order might similarity undergo a rapid collapse. One thing that has been fairly consistent in History is that the lifespan of Empires has gotten progressive shorter in the West since the fall of the Western Roman empire, England's empire lasted less than 100 yrs, the US empire empire is already creaking at 70 years.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 12 2020 3:13 utc | 160

Kyle Becker @kylenabecker
DOMINION.

"This image-cast evolution voting machine has the physical ability to mark votes onto the ballot after the last time the voter sees the ballot... and that's a DISASTER. "

Princeton comp. science prof Andrew Appel shreds Dominion voting systems. America was warned.

[VIDEO]

https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1326570329238626305

Kyle Becker @kylenabecker

Full video by @LuluFriesdat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQmfLDeghpI

https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1326570466904059905

Posted by: Mao | Nov 12 2020 3:21 utc | 161

Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick announced Tuesday that he would pay up to $1 million from his campaign account to incentivize, encourage and reward people to come forward and report voter fraud from anywhere in the country, CBS Dallas / Fort Worth reports.

"Whistleblowers and tipsters should turn over their evidence to local law enforcement. Anyone who provides information that leads to an arrest and final conviction of voter fraud will be paid a minimum of $25,000," said Patrick in a news release.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dan-patrick-texas-lt-governor-1-million-reward-voter-fraud-evidence/

Posted by: Mao | Nov 12 2020 3:24 utc | 162

snake@126 - I don't disagree. Some of the framers were kind of bastards, others were brilliant. All men created equal, but a curious set of privileges for the Colonial 'aristocracy' were preserved. We had 233 years to weed those out and refine our Constitution to something far more noble - as intended by (some of) the framers. Psychopaths have been retooling the laws and interpretation of the Constitution for their own purposes every single one of those 233 years. We were too slow/dim to outpace them. Now, they are the system. Voting and laws were our tools to prevent usurpation of the constitution/government. They don't (and were never intended) to fix a thoroughly corrupt and usurped system after the fact. I'm horrified that Americans are so easily and constantly gaslighted into thinking voting and laws have magical powers to fix what they cannot possibly fix.

...Think hard, Why were not <=the Bill of rights=> part of the original constitution... Because the Constitution defines the mechanism of the state, not the people or their specific rights it was protecting. There is no such thing as 'Constitutional rights', citizens already had inalienable rights. In The Federalist No. 84, Hamilton argued that constituting a government without a specific mandate or powers to deny the citizen's rights should be guarantee enough for the protection of those rights. Enumerating some specific and necessarily incomplete list of citizens' rights in the Constitution was (in his opinion) dangerous, as the state would eventually assume powers not granted to it regarding 'missing' rights. He was woke to: Psychopaths *always* seek more power and control. Imagine that kind of bone for the little people from a 18th century Colonial aristocrat and media mogul!


Jackrabbit@143 "So the better, more appropriate question is: What does the Deep State want?"

Wasn't that asked and answered here on MoA? Kayfabe... M O A R Kayfabe. Massive steaming torrents of Kayfabe spewing out the end of MSM hoses covering the starving unwashed masses in the putrid slop. Hear them squeal with delight? They love it! Bring in another tanker and unleash a tsunami of kayfabe.

I'm pretty sure that's what the Deep State wants. There's some other secret things, but don't worry about that.... have some more kayfabe. Yay!"

Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 12 2020 3:25 utc | 163

Trump is now up to about 4 replacements in the Pentagon, he could be looking for yes-men who will not leak any pending plans to bomb Iran. Trump is locking out Biden's transition team and Trump is surrounded by bloodthirsty, Evangelical loons.

This looks like a perfect storm to me, the means and desire are there and also the 'War Powers Act' has been misinterpreted to mean that the President can shoot to kill for 60 days.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Nov 11 2020 18:13 utc | 7

Under the hypothesis that Trump is making hasty replacements in Pentagon to secure approval for a military action, I do not see the generals to meekly agree to a disastrous war in the Gulf. A coup in USA is militarily much simpler to achieve, and it would be a straightforward way toward to prize (hereditary presidency for Trump/Kushner dynasty?), instead of a convoluted way conjectured by Christian.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 12 2020 3:27 utc | 164

England's empire lasted nearly 200 years, from the 1770s to the 1940s, and had an afterlife of 10 or 20 years, in places like Malaya and Africa. In Hong Kong, it lasted still longer.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 12 2020 3:27 utc | 165

Watch the video and then comment.

http://thesaker.is/dr-shiva-live-mit-phd-analysis-of-michigan-votes-reveals-unfortunate-truth-of-u-s-voting-systems/#comments

Posted by: Red Ryder | Nov 11 2020 22:19 utc | 100

And I know a professor of chicken science who concluded the opposite (actually, this is poultry science)

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 12 2020 3:30 utc | 166

Trump's right-hand man:

Big anti-China loser Pompeo to fail pushing anti-China stand before leaving: analyst

In a Tuesday speech at the Ronald Reagan Institute, Pompeo used some of his strongest rhetoric against China, describing the Communist Party of China as a "Marxist-Leninist monster," detailing the administration's China policies, and also said the US is "not finished yet" when it comes to getting tough on China, Bloomberg reported on Tuesday.

This is who you're supporting if you're a Trumpist.

Posted by: vk | Nov 12 2020 3:41 utc | 167

Re: 158 Jackrabbit,

I really can't say if Trump is a "Great Leader" type of personality, I'm sure Trump fancies himself as one. The problem is that there are a lot of people who really, really, really hate Trump on a deeply visceral, personal level. Hmmm.... One thing I have noticed, is that when the US goes to war the American people always create heroes out their leaders, I remember after 9/11 people I knew who previously called Bush jr. a coke snorting, drunken idiot, suddenly started describing him as some brave leader defending the nation, and how Rudy Giuliani (then NY city's mayor) became "America's Mayor". Eventually this went away and Bush jr went back to just being an drunken idiot and people now seem to utterly loath Giuliani. After 4 yrs of the US media trashing Trump 24/7, him suddenly being rehabilitated into a great American leader taking the US in a a major war with China or Iran seems unlikely. Honestly, Trump seems so divisive now that he would make a better President to take the US into a Civil War or mass unrest, perhaps there are no countries weak enough for the US to be able to attack now so it is being forced to engage in auto-cannibalism to feed its' insatiable desire for war. A civil war would allow the US to write off a slew of selective debts while forcing the country to take on a whole host of new debts and taxes to pay for rebuilding a devastated country, the North and the various carpetbaggers made a lot of money out of the 1st reconstruction period.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 12 2020 3:43 utc | 168

A funny sample of the nutcase logics of some in this website:
The DNC had polls placing Biden 5+ points ahead in key states, but they put up this MASSIVE computer fraud system giving only a <1% lead in this same states, so the counting could be contested.
Isnt it so obvious that should a fraud scheme had been used, the counting would have given Biden an undeniable win?
I think even a 6 year old understands that. But its too much for the political flat earth society members.

Posted by: BERNARDO C TROISE | Nov 12 2020 3:52 utc | 169

Ding, dong, The jerk is gone. Now it is time for the MoA to concede

Posted by: Nick | Nov 12 2020 4:06 utc | 170

"Voter fraud" cuckoos are just as bad as Russiagaters, seriously.

It's pretty clear why Trump won against Hillary (nothing to do with foreign meddling) and also pretty clear why he lost to Biden (nothing to do with fraud). Whoever claims otherwise is just a partisan hack, and unfortunately the comment section on Moon of Alabama these days seen to attract more right-wing nuts than anti imperialists. And, to be honest, while b's reporting is good 90% of the time - and I'm thankful he didn't jump on the covidiots bandwagon, denying the pandemic - his stances on Trump haven't been that great. But nothing even close to what I read in the comments.

Posted by: tropicalML | Nov 12 2020 4:24 utc | 171

Americans are not Germans, b, they will not tolerate an authoritarian sociopathic narcissist who takes power through arcane legal manipulations. It may satisfy some compulsion you have to celebrate the humiliation of the US through your support of this pig, Trump. Today is Veterans Day which honors US vets who saved your sorry ass country from its Third Reich and put it back on its feet. Wipe that smirk off your face. It may amuse you to watch the cartoonish spectacle of this wannabe Putin cling like a barnacle to the White House. Trump commands no respect in the Pentagon and the 70+ million popular votes he is credited with are largely bogus supplied by the Koch/Mercer machinations in states where no one is looking. There will be no investigation of the uncontested red state voting. There are fascists & theocrats in this country, but their number is too small to support a coup by this unindicted criminal lunatic. Are you having fun, b?

Posted by: jadan | Nov 12 2020 4:34 utc | 172

@ jadan

Take a breath.

Yeah, b most of the time is rather ignorant of the internal political discord of the U.S., but to what degree of honor and dignity does the Pentagon exhibit to this day that is qualified enough to condemn Trump for his lack thereof?

It's rhetorical, by the way.

America has shown little in our FP besides sycophants stroking the egos of imperial wannabes.

I trust a man like Col. Lang to tell me how infested these departments are.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 12 2020 4:42 utc | 173

The fraud was pulled off by Silicon Valley (Facebook, Twitter, Google) and the mainstream media, who deep-sixed what should have been 2 weeks or more of critical coverage of Biden's influence peddling activities – a scandal that cuts right at the core Biden campaign that he is a man of character. This election was so close that this may have been decisive. Orwell would have been impressed.

Posted by: Dave | Nov 12 2020 5:18 utc | 174

What are the mechanics of electronic fraud? Statistical analysis is evidence of their existence, but demonstrating how they arise is really the point.
Russell Ramsland (Allied Security Operations Group) describes the architecture of these systems. The systems he describe are extremely susceptible to manipulation, and difficult to audit. It creates the means and opportunity, politics the motive.
Fraud is all but inevitable. If this is credible, The integrity of the entire elections system is in serious doubt. That is a third rail few politicians would dare discuss openly.
Here is Mr. Ramsland's interview with L Todd Wood. [on bitchute] He discusses the layout of the systems and where they are susceptible to manipulation (almost everywhere)

Such a porous system would explain why news media outlets are so eager to prefix any discussion of the issue "without evidence".

Posted by: TimothyS | Nov 12 2020 5:25 utc | 175

Britain salutes u president Harris, how u ever thought u got independence a couple centuries ago. Never happened. U cannot just walk away scot free.

Posted by: cadaver | Nov 12 2020 5:51 utc | 176

@ Dave | Nov 12 2020 5:18 utc | 173 who writes that there should have been 2 more weeks of coverage of the Hunter Biden scandal

I do wonder if that will be pursued or dropped but my question back to you is why didn't the Trump team release the scandal 2 weeks or more earlier?....

People keep needing to be reminded that Trump is still alive, unlike the Kennedys's and Lincoln, because he is not a threat to the real Deep State, global private finance elite. Trump is the Hollywood front for empire in decline. He either wins the battle against foreign foes or takes the global empire front country down with him as distraction for those behind the global curtain.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 12 2020 5:52 utc | 177

This country was not founded as a democracy. There's nothing in the Constitution that mandates that a state must hold and election or abide by the results of an election to select its delegates to the Electoral College. The Constitution merely specifies that 'Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress...'

So the legislatures of the various states decide how and whom to appoint the electors for that state. And -- as it happens -- the Republicans control both houses of the legislatures of Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

As far as I can see, legally there's nothing stopping the Republicans from winning this election. They simply appoint the necessary electors.

Posted by: Colin Wright | Nov 12 2020 5:54 utc | 178

The same people who spent four years accusing Russia of interfering in America’s internal affairs are now attacking Moscow for not meddling. It’s another curious case of something previously described as ‘Russophrenia’.
Russia has explained that it will hold off congratulations to Biden until the US election has been officially called, or his rival Donald Trump concedes. You may think this is a reasonable approach to demonstrate respect for the democratic process amid a contested election. But you would be wrong according to the Western mainstream media, which explains this is an effort by authoritarian leaders to keep their man in Washington.

It is also apparently evidence of Moscow supposedly still supporting Trump and Putin fearing that the morally righteous Biden will hold the evil Russians accountable yet again. No matter that the US State Department, long America’s primary ‘democracy promotion’ vehicle, has reminded foreign leaders that the count has yet to be completed.

The narrative of Russiagaters in the media immediately collapses once you factor in how China and Mexico have also indicated they will wait for the official election results. Trump started a trade war and a Cold War against China and his principal foreign policy objective has been to curb the rise of China.

https://www.rt.com/russia/506355-kremlin-staying-silent-biden-victory/

Posted by: Mao | Nov 12 2020 5:54 utc | 179

I started with Trump's show at Arlington National Cemetary, because I didn't want to dignify the content of this article.

It's like you're running through the gamut of save Trump's ass strategies and keep moving to the next each time they're proven ridiculous.

Funny you didn't mention the purge of multiple officials at the DoD whom Trump is replacing with Loyalists? There are rumors Trump also wants to sack Gina Haspel and Chris Wray and this purge may extend to the Joint Chiefs.

Now, the big, glaring question is: Why now? Why is he doing this now?

Some say it's to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan, but would he have to fire everyone, and replace them for this move?

Maybe Rabbit's right in that he'll initiate a war with Iran, and therefore needs to clear troops out of Afghanistan a) to get them out of proximity; and b) to give them a rest in case they're needed for a ground operation...somewhere.

However, there is a 3rd possibility that is way, way out there: election coup with the imposition of Martial Law?

Then there is Executive Directive 51 that could be used to cancel the transition and extend Trump's rule together with Martial Law.

What is Trump up to? Why would he initiate a sweeping purge so close to the end of his Presidency?

Something's up.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 12 2020 5:55 utc | 180

Oh boy, people are reading and quoting Project Veritas for fact checking. It would be ironic, only if Project Veritas itself was not the definition of irony. Trump will go till the end, the recent firings and installment of Trump loyalists to the critical positions that require authorization of use of force are a testament to it. Meanwhile, the US institutions are on fire, thousands of government positions are vacant or run by temporary personnel. That is what happens when your president has expertise on all things:
https://www.wired.com/story/trump-hollowed-out-us-national-security-vacancies-acting/

Posted by: Innocent Civilian | Nov 12 2020 5:55 utc | 181

Untested AI software was used to verify mail-in ballot signatures in highly contested localities like Clark County, Nevada. The company that produces it has close ties to Lockheed Martin and Microsoft and its founder has a bone to pick with Donald Trump.

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/11/investigative-reports/suspect-ai-software-verified-mail-in-ballots-with-little-human-oversight-in-key-battleground-states/

Posted by: Mao | Nov 12 2020 6:04 utc | 182

Circe #178

What is Trump up to? Why would he initiate a sweeping purge so close to the end of his Presidency?

Something's up.

Resistance Circe, obstruction, rejection of the demonazi right to rule. He will continue to terrify the right wing demonazi fan club that have just 'defeated' him. He is acting too little and too late and, if he ever had a chance to act, it was at the beginning of his term but he had appointed an Attorney General that couldn't fart and chew gum at the same time. Plus he didn't have the nerve to go after the demonazi thieves, cheaters and hucksters. Lost opportunity leading to 2020 reverting to business as usual.

Maybe this is a Trump tantrum - full of oblique gestures and weird energy leading to a laughing stock. Can you imagine what is being said in the briefing rooms in the WH between DT and Kushner and Ivanka? Now that would involve more weird than hat full of Rsoles.

Maybe (and this is a BIG maybe) he might bring the troops home for xmas and saddle the Harris/Biden presidency with a grotesque dilemma. Now that I would like to see.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 12 2020 6:23 utc | 183

It


Will


Make

NO

Difference


To


Anybody

Who

"Wins"


The


Amerikastani

presidency.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 12 2020 6:45 utc | 184

Of all the scenarios that lead to a Trump victory the one sketched above is the least likely.

A recount of all the legal votes plus the SCOTUS decision on Pennsylvania and all the sworn affidavits of organised voter fraud being used in lawsuits currently under way should be sufficient to give Trump victory. If Russia and China thought there wasn’t a good possibility that Trump would win they would have congratulated Biden already. But they haven’t and for good reason.

The fraud was blatant. If there was no fraud as alleged why were Republican observers either barred (literally in some cases) from observing the counts? Why were windows boarded up and doors locked with chains to not allow Republican observers in ? Why did the Democrats counter sue to block Republican observers from observing ? Why did a sherif threaten to arrest Republican observers from entering even though the observers came with a valid court order ? Does that strike you as the actions of people engaged in legal practices ? Even in those areas were they did allow Republican observers in they were stationed so far away they needed binoculars!!!!!

Let alone the fact that the dead voted in record numbers for Biden in this election.

Even the Deep State is worried about the legal action Trump is taking and are openly calling for a palace coup:

In the incredible Monday evening CNN interview, Brennan - himself responsible for stoking the now widely debunked Russiagate claims from the start of the Trump presidency - brazenly urged Vice President Mike Pence to seize power.
Once they seize power the legal action will stop.

If the Deep State doesn’t seize power and the lawsuits are successful Trump will win.

The real story for me now is the implosion of Fox News. Murdoch may have called the election, according to Debsisdead but the cost is going to be tremendous. I used to watch snippets of Tucker Carlson on YouTube and now after the election he seems so fake and insincere.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 12 2020 7:01 utc | 185

123 - The more obstreperous Black Panthers were blasted out of existence or jailed for long periods, some may still be inside, and someone like Leonard Peltier is still in jail and may die there. Perhaps the late 1960s-early 1970s were as close to revolution as anyone got in the USA, but the state pulled out all the stops and crushed it.

Posted by: Waldorf | Nov 12 2020 7:04 utc | 186

Whilst I have no skin in the game (US presidential choice seems to be either cat or dog poop. Pick one to slam in your face), the subject of fraud does interest me.

I believe the 2019 UK general election was won via fraud (postal votes), and I'm certain that the Scottish Independence referendum was also fraudulently defeated.


Scottish evidence

The article gives a huge list of electorial fraud around the globe before providing insight into how the Scots were cheated.

The only question is have really is how far back has this been going on?

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 12 2020 7:23 utc | 187

@EoinW | Nov 12 2020 1:02 utc | 140
I agree with you, these are my reasons as well.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 12 2020 7:28 utc | 188

Excellent analysis of 4 Wisconsin counties revealing the use of the weighted race vote shifting “feature” of Dominion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztu5Y5obWPk&feature=emb_logo

Really it is advertised as a feature! Of course not to the public.

Who will win an election? Not the one with the most votes, but the one who counts the votes….

That Dominion made the mistake of shifting votes already in the system instead of applying the shift to the incoming votes. Thus the shift was revealed by a decrease in votes already allocated to Trump which should be impossible in any vote counting system. By analyzing national wide all results of subsequent vote counts these system initiated shifts were revealed. The numbers of votes thus shifted are massive and of course focused in the battle states.
https://thedonald.win/p/11Q8O2wesk/happening-calling-every-pede-to-/

Dominion is advertised on the Clinton Foundation website:
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/clinton-global-initiative/commitments/delian-project-democracy-through-technology

Shareholder of Dominion seems to be senator Feinstein’s husband and Pelosi’s former chief of staff seems to work for Dominion now.

One may note that the glitch county received an update 2 days before the election.

Trump already tweeted that the Voting system vendors will have it coming,

Posted by: JR | Nov 12 2020 7:28 utc | 189

The CIA/Dem Party Zombies have had far more than their fair share of time here. Biden et.al. is suicidal.

DON'T GIVE YOURSELVES TO THESE UNNATURAL MEN.

The suicidal Dem Party needs to die if we are to live.

That will solve very little with two-party inducing choose-one voting, and black box machines.

But we can fix that with hand counted paper ballots, and simple score voting.

go for it!

Posted by: blues | Nov 12 2020 7:49 utc | 190

We'll all know when the election is over when the notorious LBJ letter to incoming presidents is handed over from one hapless zionist stooge to another. Somehow elected presidents are supposedly 'bound' by this weird bit of paper to not ever mentioning in public the contradiction of the NPT, US domestic law and the failure of the bandit state of Khazaria to abide by the provisions of the NPT while at the same time openly boasting about possessing a massive nuclear arsenal and routinely and repeatedly threatening all the neighbours with nuclear annihilation over many decades.

Or else the incoming president may be JfK'd, for exactly the same reasons.

US domestic law explicitly prohibits any 'aid' for such rogue nuclear armed regimes. Why the exception and the double standard?

The US public needs to find some self respect and throw out these fakes, parasites and traitors forever.

Posted by: Paul | Nov 12 2020 8:41 utc | 191

If there's a deep state, it is in the UK. I can't see BoJo and the EU aristocracy (Brussels and else) dealing Brexit with Trump on charge.

Posted by: Mina | Nov 12 2020 9:02 utc | 192

This is pretty rancid: James Anderson worked under Esper, basically making him the number three position in the Pentagon. He resigned after Esper was fired. When Anderson left the building for the last time, he was given a "clap out" as an honor from his fellow employees. This was followed immediately by the White House demanding a list of names of any political appointees who had clapped for Anderson so they could be fired.

Posted by: teri | Nov 12 2020 9:41 utc | 193

As far as I can see, legally {<=legal is not at issue, constitutionally is?=>] there's nothing stopping the Republicans from winning this election. The..[Republicans, in each state need only to ]..appoint the necessary electors {<=to the electoral college]. by: Colin Wright @ 178
<= Yes, M16, Mouse sod, and Chrome Saudi are standing by, with physician designed "weakest spot" bone diagrams of each potential appointee to the Electoral College..<= they take no chance <=an inappropriate appointment to the Electoral College will not occur. .

Colin Wright @ 178 answer should satisfy Psychohistorian at 177. The sum of the answer is:
Who needs war to stay in office, when the electoral college is constitutionally available, so much cheaper, more timely, and convenient.

uncle tungsten @ 183 Circe #178 What is Trump up to? Why would he initiate a sweeping purge so close to the end of his Presidency? <= Something's up. Circe @ 180 questions why the Troop withdraw from Afghanistan and suggest it might be in preparation for an election coup with the imposition of Martial Law? <=and I reported two days ago that a friend at Panama City, Florida reported to me he waited 6 hours for a military convoy to head North on Highway 20. <=Circe theory =>Trump's back up plan in case vote recount and EC fail.

I think Mina @ 192 may have something "If there's a [control center for the] deep state, it is in the UK [and Hk].

Posted by: snake | Nov 12 2020 10:18 utc | 194

You can not say, that everything is alright just because you dislike Trump!

Posted by: padre | Nov 12 2020 10:32 utc | 195

@Posted by: Innocent Civilian | Nov 12 2020 5:55 utc | 181

Grennell is one of the people we wil be grateful not having to deal with anymore in Europe, apart from Pompeo.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 11:01 utc | 196

One of the few areas where Trump kept his campaign promises (largely due to partisan obstruction) is in revealing and taking action against the corrupt political bureaucracy - partly acheived by bring the most corrupt on board his administration then firing their asses. His efforts continue. Bull in China shop. Has been the most productive administration in my life time. Would like to see it continue.

Investigation into US voting process integrity is badly needed. That and the process is too suseptible to influence of owners.

The demos have more of a political machine, repubs is free for all. Not the doing of the demos is that they have been aquired. Is false populism v attempt at genuine if opportunistic, sporatic populism. Populism is the real enemy of the owners who favor corporate socialism.

Effort would be to raise sufficient issue with election integrity to justify audit which either reveals fraud or delays either way I imagine that takes it to the electoral college.

Posted by: jared | Nov 12 2020 11:23 utc | 197

@Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 11 2020 22:39 utc | 111

Thanks for the essay on the Electoral College, I am needing more info on hw this intricated process works.

I Spain we are communicated during previous weeks to election day which electoral college we must go to vote to, normally a school very close in the neighborhood, where you can vote from 8am to 8pm by showing your personal ID card ( which is alos enough to travle through the Schengen space, btw...)
This happens so because there are censes actualized periodically ( I think every decade or so, may be more often...) where it is intended to register all the population at that time lives and works in Spain.

When you go voting, you present your personal ID card to the electoral table interventor, which sings you name aloud so that the next interventor on charge of the cense listing finds you in it and marks your name as already voting. It is hen when your vote, introduced in a sealed ( if you want ) envelop, and thus secret, is introduced in the electoral urn. Observers from all the political parties are present at the table and the electoral college.

All these interventors are citizens selected haphardly ( being selected for this task always being referred as a full annoyance, as elections are celebrated on Sundays, sometimes only free day in the labor week, you are payed a representative quantity in money to be there and provided a sandwich and a drink for lunch..). I have not ever participated in the process, but I fera the votes are counted by hand, after the schools close. This is why at certain point already into that night there is an estimated of the results, varying some parliament seats up and down. Canary Islands always function an hour later that the peninsula.

It is the candidate of the party achieving majority of votes who is elected president, later ratified by the Head of State, Monarc Felipe VI.
If the party achieving more votes has not enough majority, it can form a colation with like minded parties to achieve it, this opens the possibility to negotiate with other parties with other different platfroms which could add to the paltform of the party with more votes, also with the autonomus regions majorities, which could be of other ideological leaning, as happened during the last elections.

I think this system of ours gives less opportunities to be rigged, at least at voting sites level. Of course, when everybody accept the rules of the game and do not start questioning the legitimacy of the process, as it has done the recently created far-right Vox party ( close to Trump, in fact they repeat Trump´s points at Spanish parliament, for strange it could sound...) during the whole duration of this legislature so far, stirring violence in the streets, one time after another undermining government efforts to combat the pandemic, and phisically menacing ministers who have little babies even in their own homes...

The only thing which could be rigged here is the possibility of access to be a candidate, as happens in all the Western world, not at hand of any person out there with political concerns. It is said you have no opportunity unless you have been invited and given the blessing at the Bilderberg Group meeting....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 12 2020 11:40 utc | 198

It does make a difference who wins the presidency. It mattered in 2016 as the upset paralyzed many deep state/establishment operations

  • The US presence in Libya became inconsequential.

  • The US retreated dramatically in its war against Syria. Yes, the Russians changed the tune in Syria, but the US stopped dancing because of the domestic political disruption at home.

  • The US position in Iraq has also become tenuous because of that disruption.

  • America's fascist regime in Bolivia was left without the necessary support by the disruption and was therefore removed by the Bolivian people. It will take at least a decade to set up another color revolution there.

  • The US tools in Ecuador have been neglected and are likely to be dumped by the Ecuadoran people.

  • The US color revolution in Hong Kong was resoundingly defeated due to the internal divisions in the US and Trump's destruction, intended or otherwise, of the empire's "reality exclusion zone" ("soft power" delusion that makes people elsewhere in the world think that aligning with US interests will be good for them).

  • The US color revolution in Belarus was one of the most farcical examples of the empire's efforts ever due to these same disruptions. The Belarusians were able to easily brush it off.

  • The US didn't respond to Iran's missile strikes on US bases. Whether this was blocked by Trump or the internal discord in the imperial leadership left the military unprepared for response is irrelevant. The PNAC administrations of Bush/Obama/Biden absolutely would have responded with strikes involving a large number of cruise missiles, even if they only blew up imaginary "secret nuclear facilities" empty desert, in order to maintain the narrative that nobody is allowed to get away with slapping the World Cop.

  • Somehow it passed under the radar, but Trump managed to cut the US State Department budget by around 20%. That is an even bigger deal for the anti-imperialists who understand how the empire works than cutting the US military budget.

  • Trump legitimized the use of the term "fake news" in public discourse. This weakened the empire's global brainwashing apparatus. Think of it sorta like shining a spotlight back on the projectionists in Plato's Cave.

  • Deployment of the "identity politics" mechanism for silencing political speech that might be disadvantageous to the neoliberal order has been slowed. Being censured and banned from employment and public discourse for arguing that "all lives matter" has not yet been enshrined in law, for example. With Harris in office it will be, though.

It is so odd hearing the Trump Derangement Syndrome victims celebrating how much better things will be now that their boogeyman has been defeated. Are they really so stupid naive? Have they already forgotten what real war is like? Have they already forgotten that it was Biden who sponsored the "crime bill" that rounded up millions of young Black men "super predators" and stuffed them into private prisons? Is it forgotten that Biden (along with Clinton) institutionalized the "school to prison pipeline"?

It is because it is so easy to fracture these TDS victims' minds that western society has no hope of fixing itself. It is trivial for the mass media to normalize true horrors while getting these mentally broken people to bark at shadows. But perhaps I am being overly cynical. While many are desperate for a return to the delusional wholesomeness of Obama's deadly embrace, many more have opened their eyes to the establishment's deceptions and toxicity. Maybe that will eventually become enough to salvage things in the west as global capitalism descends deeper into its nexus of crises.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 12 2020 11:43 utc | 199

Mao | Nov 12 2020 3:21 utc | 161 and all fyi
https://twitter[dot] com/i/status/1155227112099524609
(vote machine video post from snowdon)

Posted by: Walter | Nov 12 2020 11:53 utc | 200

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