Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 08, 2020

The MoA Election Week In Review

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

> Public PBS and NPR provided extensive coverage to presidential candidates in their newscasts with President Trump receiving 48 per cent of all politics-related news coverage on both channels, largely critical. Former Vice President Biden and his campaign received 18 per cent of such coverage on PBS and 20 per cent on NPR, most of which was neutral. On the three national TV networks (ABC, CBS, and NBC) President Trump received 63, 56 and 60 per cent of prime time politics-related news coverage, respectively, most of which was critical, while former Vice President Biden received 20, 25 and 22 per cent, respectively, mainly in a neutral tone. The cable networks were mostly relying on reporting opinions at the expense of balanced coverage. MSNBC, and, albeit to a lesser degree, CNN, portrayed the incumbent President very negatively, and Fox News showed open bias with demeaning vocabulary against former Vice President Biden in some of its evening shows. <

> Though the maths and maps suggests Biden will likely reach 270 Electoral votes, the old saying ‘It ain’t over ’till it’s over’, holds true. The electoral vote scenarios in the key ‘swing states’ would only apply if there is no litigation, fraud or theft.  However all three are in play – If you are stuffing the ballot box, you first wait to see what the regular vote is, so that you know how many votes you ‘need’ (mathematical anomalies aside) to push your candidate over the top.  Trump, somewhat rashly, gave out the GOP vote calculations at 02.30 on Wednesday, and hey-presto, loads of absentee ballots suddenly arrived at certain polling stations at around 04.00.  That seems to have happened in Wisconsin, where over 100,000 Biden votes appeared seemingly out of nowhere on a flash drive delivered by hand from a Democratic district. That put Biden ahead in Wisconsin – but litigation is in process. Likewise, it appears that a huge “absentee ballot” dump appeared in Michigan that heavily favored Biden.

This is just the beginning of a new and more uncertain phase that could go on for weeks. <

> In sum, if the results we have hold, Joe Biden will win the election and preside over a divided Congress. A chastened and anxious Democratic caucus will continue to hold the House. A triumphant Senate Republican caucus will obviously destroy his major legislative agenda. Biden will assuredly turn to policy by executive action, just as Barack Obama did late in his legislatively stymied administration. When he does, Republicans will do all they can to send those actions to a 6–3 conservative Supreme Court Biden will be unable to pack or meaningfully reform. In defeating Trump, Democrats will have avoided their worst-case scenario. Instead, they will have won the worst possible Biden victory, a political situation that will be a nightmare all its own. <
> There is nothing done by the Trump administration that can be rationally characterized as a radical aberration, some dramatic break, from U.S. tradition. Quite the contrary: none of Trump’s actions and policies are in some new universe of savagery, lawlessness, or radicalism when compared to those who preceded him in power. <

Joseph Dana @ibnezra - 10:06 UTC · Nov 8, 2020
Biden’s acceptance speech in front of a Chase logo pretty much says everything you need to know about the next four years. #USElectionResults2020

Please use the Open Thread 2020-88 for non-election issues.

Posted by b on November 8, 2020 at 13:06 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

Posted by: Jezabeel | Nov 9 2020 3:55 utc | 89 It's a few thousand votes in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona, and Michigan.

You're correct. My mistake (I usually know better.)

But it *is* around 100,000 votes (Biden's lead) scattered over seven states - which means Trump has to prove fraud in enough of those states to invalidate 20 Electoral Votes. Pennsylvania alone is 20 Electoral Votes and appears by any measure to be solidly Democratic as it has been since 1992 with the sole exception of 2016. Pennsylvania is unlikely to be reversed. Which leaves Trump with six states, some combination of two or more have to be flipped for him to invalidate 20 Electoral Votes.

Not going to happen. Why? Because a recount won't do it. And because there's no chance that a large enough vote fraud occurred across that many states, and still less in any one state such as Pennsylvania, Michigan or Wisconsin, to invalidate 100,000 votes. AFAIK that's never happened in any Presidential election in recent memory, if ever, and probably not even in state elections, and it didn't happen this time.


"Widespread calls to conduct the 2020 elections by mail, to protect voters from COVID-19 exposure, are being met with charges that the system inevitably would lead to massive voter fraud. This is simply not true.

"Vote fraud in the United States is exceedingly rare, with mailed ballots and otherwise. Over the past 20 years, about 250 million votes have been cast by a mail ballot nationally. The Heritage Foundation maintains an online database of election fraud cases in the United States and reports that there have been just over 1,200 cases of vote fraud of all forms, resulting in 1,100 criminal convictions, over the past 20 years. Of these, 204 involved the fraudulent use of absentee ballots; 143 resulted in criminal convictions.

Let’s put that data in perspective.

One hundred forty-three cases of fraud using mailed ballots over the course of 20 years comes out to seven to eight cases per year, nationally. It also means that across the 50 states, there has been an average of three cases per state over the 20-year span. That is just one case per state every six or seven years. We are talking about an occurrence that translates to about 0.00006 percent of total votes cast.

Oregon is the state that started mailing ballots to all voters in 2000 and has worked diligently to put in place stringent security measures, as well as strict punishments for those who would tamper with a mailed ballot. For that state, the following numbers apply: With well over 50 million ballots cast, there have been only two fraud cases verifiable enough to result in convictions for mail-ballot fraud in 20 years. That is 0.000004 percent — about five times less likely than getting hit by lightning in the United States.

Suggest everyone read this report by the Brennan Center For Justice: Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth - Brennan Center for Justice

Large-scale voter fraud simply does not happen in the United States - at least, not by any of the "ballot stuffing" methods being proposed as the reason for Biden's win. It only happens from redistricting and voter disenfranchisement prior to an election - not *during* an election, except in very minor cases relative to the overall election. And it has never influenced a Presidential election in recent memory.

It's simply a non-existent issue.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 9 2020 4:02 utc | 91 If nothing else, we have the example of the 2000 election: Gore had actually won but conceded to GWBush.

Apples and oranges comparison. Gore was ahead by 500 votes. Biden is ahead by 100,000 - and the counting isn't done yet. Trump has only one way to win: prove electoral fraud across two or more states (or Pennsylvania alone) to invalidate 20 Electoral Votes.

I've already stated my final prediction: Biden won. Trump lost. Trump won't be able to prove enough fraud to invalidate the voting results.

You want to make the opposite prediction - or learn from your last mistake, and just posit the possibility of a Trump win? That's fine with me either way.

And I'll expect everyone here who's wasting the bar's time with BS about "stolen elections" should be held to account by b - including b himself - should it turn out that every one of Trump's lawsuits get either dismissed or proven wrong. If Trump actually proves enough electoral fraud to reverse Biden's win, I will absolutely turn up here and admit I was wrong.

If you were here, I'd say: Look into my eyes. Do I look concerned?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 6:31 utc | 101

I am following the Australian media from outside Australia. I notice the familiar repetitive propaganda technique used to sell messages in the media to the gullible and uneducated public. It's all in a word and that word was again deployed today in federal parliament to describe Joe Biden. The word, wait for 'decent.'

I fail to understand how someone who describes himself as a zionist can also be described as decent. The two positions are mutually self exclusive. A better word would be ugly, obsequious or weak. I am sure barflies have a few more adjectives to throw in, In six months there will be a flood of useful words.

Posted by: Paul | Nov 9 2020 6:36 utc | 102

@EoinW | Nov 9 2020 2:48 utc | 84

If readers are like me, they're beginning to tune out the comment section. Really it's been pretty pathetic compared to the comment section at the Saker's blog. Which is unfortunate because MofA deserves better.

Yes, the comment section has been Hacked.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 6:36 utc | 103

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 6:36 utc | 102


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 7:08 utc | 104

Scrolled directly to the bottom of the first page of comments without reading any other than the one right above the Post a comment form, which is RSH's regarding election fraud. Agree completely with the Brennan center's conclusions as I have read it before. I can't say I care much for Mr. Brennan, but that's beside the point. Anyway, I only dropped in to offer a few observations nowt that I've had a night to sleep on this US election stuff and a day to dive into social media, talk to people, and view a couple of American TV programs that I sometimes like to watch even if I don't always agree with them (no, I will never watch Bill Maher on HBO - he's a fucking establishment crank whose intellect I cannot even believe allowed him to make a career in standup comedy much less hosting a roundtable style talk show, and one that regularly features Ann Coulter - gag). So forgive me if I'm saying anything that hasn't already been said, and also please forgive me if I had an ongoing dialogue with anyone in another thread that I've not gotten back to due to fatigue (Sagineh Bagoom (sp?) I'll get back to it when I can).

Couple of observations:

1) Watched Dave Chappelle's SNL monologue from Saturday night in America on "Saturday Night Live" - I recommend it. Very funny and really hits the nail on the head. I won't spoil it, but if you end up watching (yes, SNL has become totally unwatchable during the Trump years), let me know what you think. I think Chappelle captured the zeitgeist when Bush/Cheney were in office and that he continues to in 2020. Love that dude.

2) Watched John Oliver using my American daughter's password for HBO Max and a proxy server. This is how I normally view John Oliver: a) He avoids the Russia stuff just enough to remain credible in my mind, even though he often hints around it to appease his viewing base of mostly liberal Democrats with college educations. He's never pushed the Russiagate thing in the manner that, say, Steven Colbert did, but he's allowed some of the narratives to enter his show unscathed or un-criticized. b) He does a great job of exposing and breaking down the everyday graft and corruption of the elite in America and how it plays out for regular people. They did a bit on the diabetes clinics one time and another on trailer parks - I recommend both of them. c) He panders to the aforementioned educated liberal Democrat base just enough but knows where to stop to keep someone like me watching even if I scoff at some of the narratives he allows to seep in.

All of that said, this Sunday's episode did a great job of showing the hypocrisy of Trump supporters and their behavior during the time spanning the closing of polls to now in the USA. In one clip, we see an all-white mob of (bused in?) angry Trump supporters in Philadelphia (80% black) chanting and screaming to Stop The Count!. I believe it was Wednesday night when it was filmed. In another clip we see a mob of mostly white, often armed Trump supporters in a heavily white Arizona precinct screaming to Count The Votes!. Additionally we see several clips of people in the USA and abroad dancing and reveling in public places that Trump is gone. There was literally just one person in any of the clips that had a pro-Biden sign. This matches with my own anecdotal and observed take on this election that regardless of why (be it the constant MSM negative treatment of Trump (which I and others better versed than myself have argued is actually GOOD for him - CNN's top executive seems to think so)) there was a silent majority of Americans (although JUST barely) that really hate Trump the person and were far more happy to see him go than they were happy to see Biden/Kamala replace him. It really was a popularity or prom king contest and even though Trump filled arenas with his rallies and prompted crazy people to stage boat parades (regattas) and Biden "couldn't fill a parking lot", it wasn't possible to extrapolate any meaningful information from those anecdotal facts beyond what they say themselves. Namely, Trump packs arenas, Biden doesn't. But the mistake Trump supporters made was assuming that this naturally extrapolated to his popularity, but more importantly Biden's lack of popularity.

Turns out that wasn't the point. Enough people were sick of Trump, his toxic image (mostly self-made), and willingness to embrace or refuse to condemn the most xenophobic, hateful rhetoric and policy of some of the farthest right American constituencies, that they were willing to hold their nose and vote for Biden enthusiastically as a rebuke to Trumpism. This is the key fact that too many of his supporters (or supporters of CERTAIN Trump policies) here at MoA don't seem to understand. Especially the ones constantly making unfounded/unbackable allegations of fraud on a scale and of a magnitude necessary to get Biden elected. His supporters are projecting their own passion for him and their perceived lack of passion for Biden onto what they expected the results to be. That's not how it works. They are also exhibiting hallmark sociopathic traits (narcissism is a form of sociopathy I believe) when they say that THERE'S NO WAY OUR GUY LOST! IT'S IMPOSSIBE UNLESS THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD!!!

Before I continue, let me reiterate what I've said since I started commenting at MoA about this election. I think Biden will be a horrible president and I also think that there is some merit to the theory of some regulars here that a second Trump term would have hastened the decline of the USA hegemon and/or re-written the structure of the "elite" or "establishment" in Washington. But I also know that Trump was able to stack the district courts and SCOTUS with right-leaning, Federalist Society wet dream judges and justices (many of whom were called unqualified by the ABA) who will waste no time finding in favor of the types of policies stemming from the war on terra that George W Cheney put in place and which Barack H Obama seized and entrenched. These are activist judges and there is no way to make a case otherwise. Trump also gutted important "three letter agencies" like the EPA and Education Department as well as opened up vast swaths of federal land for privatization and exploitation. All of which are long term, ESTABLISHMENT GOP goals. Hence, as Glenn Greenwald argued in the linked piece, Trump governed like an arch-Republican, not a fascist tyrant like the MSM and "resistance" Democrats tried to paint him as. And I hate arch-Republicans, so I'm going to watch what Biden does on those and other issues before I make a judgment about him, and of course I'll be observing his foreign policy stances and likely criticizing them, as I have done with every president since Ronny Raygun. I am not and won't be celebrating either the Biden presidency - OR - the ousting of Donald Trump. I will be cautiously optimistic that Biden can fill some judiciary vacancies with somewhat liberal or progressive judges and reverse some of the damage that Trump did with respect to the Paris accords and other international agreements. I know I'll be disappointed in a lot of what really happens.

I have said several times over the past several days that I would also rub Trump's loss in with many of my Trumpist family members, friends and colleagues. I have changed my mind. I can't get excited about Biden and I don't really care all that much now that it really comes down to it. What I WILL do is demand intellectual rigor and real evidence from them if they are going to do what the Democrats and MSM did for 3.5 years with the Russiagate BULLSHIT and make claims of vote/voter fraud and the stealing of this election by way of USPS, the ballot box and vote counting operations. Show me evidence or shut the fuck up. And guess what, so far ZERO examples of legitimate vote rigging in favor of Biden. The converse? ZERO examples of vote rigging in favor of Trump! This election played out much differently than normal due to Da Rona, but any sane, patient, rational, informed adult already knew that the vote counting was going to be a LOT slower than normal and that this would muck up the MSM's usual "up to the minute" election coverage and forecasting. No more "found votes" conversations for me. That's just utter contemptible bullshit - UNLESS you have evidence AND the other side of the story or an explanation is available to review. I'm done with it and fatigued from the pitiable hypocrisy of Trump and his supporters. They spent nearly 4 years fending off BOGUS claims that Russia fraudulently got Trump elected, and now we're going to have to hear the same thing from his side, but instead of Russia it's vague claims of voter fraud backed by absolutely zero evidence - for FOUR MORE YEARS? (sadly, that is exactly what's going to happen)

Last thing is Trump's stated refusal to accept the results (I'm fine with recounts, lawsuits and reviews in cases where they are legitimate - after all, we need to know the real winner just like we needed to know in 2000 when Gore conceded and the partisan SCOTUS gave us George W Bush - without whom b might never have entered into a 'career' or side gig of blogging!) and his claims that he will boycott the usual ceremony like the one where Obama, after years of baseless and borderline racist attacks from Trump via Twitter, still sucked it up and attended the coronation of Trump. That's just classless and, to me, very much in keeping with the attitudes and (lack of) intelligence of some of Trump's more fervent American supporters.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:25 utc | 105

Sigh..fatigue indeed. Meant to say "forgive me if I'm saying something that HAS (not hasn't) already been said..."

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:27 utc | 106

Hope anyone that responds refreshes and sees this first:

That's not how it works. They are also exhibiting hallmark sociopathic traits (narcissism is a form of sociopathy I believe) when they say that THERE'S NO WAY OUR GUY LOST! IT'S IMPOSSIBE UNLESS THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD!!!

how did I fail to add in the kicker - that's EXACTLY what the Dims and Hillary did when SHE lost!!! Massive fraud allegations of another kind.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:31 utc | 107

Posted by: vk | Nov 8 2020 14:31 utc | 8

LBJ was a conundrum. A total asshole who thought the universe revolved around him, a known racist and a warmonger. But it's inaccurate to say no economic reform happened under his "war on poverty" watch. Haven't read your link yet, but the description you gave isn't necessarily true. There were plenty of economic and civil rights reforms under his presidency despite the things I mentioned.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:36 utc | 108

Also, last thing from me until someone replies to one of my posts.

Any links to YouTube videos or other Twitter or social media accounts of "how they stole the election for Biden" without even a modicum of the poster's description of what happened in their own words will be ignored. If I'm going to take any of these fraud allegations seriously, I need to see what the person alleging it is capable of articulating by way of words typed on the keyboard and rendered in pixels on my screen. At least a summary of whatever the bullshit YouTube clickbait monger, social "influencer", and inevitably "like" and "follow" seeking numbnuts is saying in the video that you are asking us to go spend 10-40 minutes of our day watching. Because, as I have said before - these people are no different than the Russian clickbait schemes that b has done such a great job of exposing and explaining. They churn out conspiracy theories like pretzels at a pretzel factory and rack up the "thumbs up", "likes", "follows" (and related revenue) - but worst of all they promulgate bullshit conspiracy theories that even those people who supposedly believe in strongly enough to post here at MoA (and assuredly elsewhere) without bothering or being capable enough to give us the Cliff's Notes versions so we can decide whether we want to waste (or benefit) from the time spent. So sick of that type of discourse in these threads lately.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:42 utc | 109

Guess everyone's asleep, but here's that Chappelle monologue I was talking about. Link is short enough not to break anyone's browser.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:48 utc | 110

Since the sheep so very seldom look up, hardly any have noticed the this so-called 'presidential election' has occurred within the deep dark shadow of something profoundly sinister.

Frank Zappa:
The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.

Eric Zuesse, Strategic Culture, 11/1/2020:
For example, on the Republican side, the fact that Donald Trump’s coronavirus leadership has been a catastrophic failure and is recognized throughout the world to be so, is ignored by some and denied by others, but it’s not recognized by Republican voters — they are in reality-denial about it. Also, for another example, these voters are in reality-denial about Trump’s racism and race-baiting. They deny the clear evidence of it.

However, on the Democratic side, the fact that Joe Biden is profoundly corrupt is simply ignored, as is the fact that he stole the nomination from Sanders by lying through his teeth. As is the fact that Biden was the U.S. Senate’s leading advocate in the Democratic Party for continuing segregation (‘separate but equal’). He was a stealthy bigot, not only on segregation, but on criminal justice. Also, the fact that Biden is an ardent proponent of U.S. imperialism and of the privatization of infrastructure in the conquered countries so as to sell them off to U.S.-and-allied investors, is likewise totally ignored by Democrats. (The main difference between Biden and Trump on foreign policy is over which country is the most important to conquer: for Trump it’s China; for Biden it’s Russia; but both want to conquer also Syria, Iran, Venezuela, and a few others.)

Perhaps the truth that both Republican and Democratic voters resist more strongly than any other is that the Republicans’ leadership regarding coronavirus-policy has been disastrously myth-laden and bad, and that Democrats are better only in that they are not leading this disaster, but Democrats have actually gone along with Trump on it wherever the polls were showing that a majority of the public were supporting his policy on the given matter. In other words: Biden’s policy has been simply to gloat over Trump’s getting all of the blame, and to avoid crucial specifics on what his own policy and priorities would be. But a choice between two evils is still evil — it’s an evil system. What is evil there is not merely the options, but the corrupt system that restricts those options to only ones that are acceptable to the actual rulers, to the very few — the aristocracy — that benefit from, and control, the corruption. That’s what’s more evil than either of the two nominees is. It is the people who are financing their political careers. And this is the reality that the vast majority of America’s voters, in both Parties, refuse to recognize. They refuse to recognize the more-fundamental problem, which problem is the trap that the country has degenerated into. Without recognizing that more-fundamental problem, there is no way out of it — not even possibly a way out of it.

The really biggest problem with this so-called 'election' is that the Deepest State, which operates all the major propaganda organs, did not even bother to hide the fact that it was blatantly and furiously playing austerity games.

Please understand that any 'political' (rather than 'casual') election that bears any involvement with computer voting, mass mail-in voting, and fails to implement simple score voting (each voter casts, say, zero to ten votes to as many candidates as they prefer -- eg. each voter could, for example, theoretically grant nine votes to a dozen different candidates) is grossly inadequate. It will be either hopelessly insecure, or incapable of liberating the commonalty from corporate foundation fronted, perceived viability, two (or too few) party lock-in. It will provide no democracy whatsoever, just a tyranny of stealth overlords.

Posted by: blues | Nov 9 2020 8:12 utc | 111


Perhaps the truth that both Republican and Democratic voters resist more strongly than any other is that the Republicans’ leadership regarding coronavirus-policy has been disastrously myth-laden and bad, and that Democrats are better only in that they are not leading this disaster, but Democrats have actually gone along with Trump on it wherever the polls were showing that a majority of the public were supporting his policy on the given matter. In other words: Biden’s policy has been simply to gloat over Trump’s getting all of the blame, and to avoid crucial specifics on what his own policy and priorities would be. But a choice between two evils is still evil...

Agree with much of what you said prior to this paragraph, but Biden not being in power means that Biden isn't responsible to issue forth a point by point, step by step approach to dealing with the pandemic until he IS in power. The other thing is the previous administration, for all it's well discussed faults, left a pandemic "game plan" and staffed numerous positions to ensure that it was at least remotely workable. Trump quickly gutted it.

The plan itself

McConnel himself admits they fucked up

But the salient parts are true.

Fact is, as you state, they could have dealt with this much better, and it was the hubris of the Trump administration (combined with DemocratX10 willingness to cut vital programs to appease the aristocracy) that led to where America is at.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 8:20 utc | 112

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 7:48 utc | 104-109

Amen to everything - except Chappelle, which I couldn't care less about. I don't "do" comedy, for the most part - other than maybe George Carlin, who was sufficiently cynical not to piss me off. I mean, I can laugh at wit, of course, I just don't search it out. Plus, if I go to Youtube to watch it, Youtube will insist on "recommending" fifty thousand more comedians, so I'd have to download it to see it, and I'm ripping the last of my DVD collection to mkv format right now.

"Agree completely with the Brennan center's conclusions as I have read it before."

I was aware that vote fraud occurred in local, county and state elections here and there - mostly based on the fabled LBJ voted in by dead people meme. But until I scanned the Brennan report, I didn't realize just how non-existent the phenomena is for the last X decades, especially on a national scale. It was obvious to me that organizing a *national* ballot-stuffing operation would be huge and likely to be detected and thwarted. Which is why they don't do it any more - too much surveillance. This isn't the 1800's or Tammany Hall in New York or whatever. I don't think even Greg Palast would claim conventional ballot-stuffing compared to redistricting and voter roll clearing is a thing. And while the latter definitely happened in this election as in every recent election - watch his interview on Jimmy Dore, which is mind-blowing - it certainly didn't affect the result of the actual voting that did occur. Which leaves nothing to justify any notion of a "stolen election" other than idiocy.

Also agree that people are just sick to death of Trump and his unending, merciless bullshit. I suspect many blame him for the economic disaster resulting from the necessity to lock down for the pandemic - and then re-open too soon to even get whatever benefit there was from it. Of course, previous administrations also bear that blame, but Trump could have acted to do something at least to minimize the problem but chose to do the opposite. And I think everyone realizes that. But his supporters have cognitive dissonance as to the degree of his blame which they can't handle which is why they're all pandemic deniers - and now election deniers.

It's definitely a massive dose of cognitive dissonance (more than narcissism, even) amplified by the fact they're, well, morons. Everyone here jumps on me for calling people morons, but there simply is no other word for people that bereft of reason and intellectual integrity - or even the common sense of a bulldog. I use that dog analogy because a guy down the hall has a couple bulls, called Brutus and Bella, which I call "the B Crew". Brutus can't be bothered to give me the time of day, while Bella is eager for attention. Both of them are smarter than some of these Trump people - maybe most of them.

So, nice to see your posts. You can take over battling the BS here for a while. You do a good job of it - better than me, actually, given that everyone here already hates me and usually ignores my posts (yes, they've actually said that - repeatedly.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 8:21 utc | 113

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 8:21 utc | 112

Watch the Chappelle clip. He's on the money.

I agree with rest in which you agree (mostly) with me. Trump supporters created their own little bubble. They held rallies, regattas, Mad Max style takeovers of federally funded interstate highways, and were just reality denying jerks in general. Guess what: I have flat earthers and mask protesters in my social media feeds; NONE of then were Biden voters and NONE of them would have voted for Bernie either. They are nutso Trump FANATICS.

Anyone who thinks that this type of phenomenon doesn't spin off an equal (or bigger) and opposite (or just let's get rid of this asshole) phenomenon doesn't understand human nature.

Trump fucking lost, even with the "found" mail-in ballots and slower than normal election returns that the media flubbed as usual and which the right almost always blames everything on (see: 2000). If you were surprised by the eventual tabulated results, fine. But if so, you aren't very bright or informed. We all knew that Biden votes were going to come by mail and be counted slower for reasons that have been amply and ably covered here in comments for days.

Trump is still a scumbag for refusing to take part in the transfer of power (POWER - says it all) theater that every previous modern president has done, and he's walking a dangerous line that promises mass civil unrest simply because he refuses to accept his narrow loss in the same way that even warmonger Killary did in 2016. But it's his FANS (not followers) who will make it extra interesting in the weeks to come.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 9 2020 8:41 utc | 114

People are getting too emotional over this shit.

It doesn't matter if there is fraud or not, any attempts to raise doubt and delegitimize the US elections are good.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 9 2020 9:14 utc | 115

Flynn’s attorney has been put in charge of Trump’s legal team investigating the irregularities during the election:

Sunday Talks – Sidney Powell Discusses Election Fraud: “We have identified 450,000 ballots in key states, that magically only voted for Biden”…

Interview with Sidney Powell

Despite the best efforts of some here to put everyone back to sleep it looks like things are going to hot up this week,

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2020 9:21 utc | 116

The Saker asked some key questions this weekend:

IF the Dems felt confident that the Trump campaign had no case, why not simply relax, wait and see the courts reject the Trump campaign’s petitions?

But no, instead, they are acting exactly as if they were all terrified that the courts might do something which would compromise the victory of the Biden campaign!


The comments below the article are interesting too.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2020 9:42 utc | 118

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2020 9:21 utc | 115 Interview with Sidney Powell

Powell is a tough, smart attorney, by all accounts. It will be interesting to see what she comes up with. But I'm not hold my breath.

Again, assertions do not equal evidence. The problem with her quoted statement is the term "magically". "Magically" is how Trump thinks. But there are no "magic votes" - they came from somewhere, and there is a chain of custody (or not - which she is going to have to prove). Which means she's going to have to specifically prove that those votes are not from living people who voted the way the votes said they did (or did anything else which is illegal). And that is going to be next to impossible. Mostly because it didn't happen.

As for not relaxing and letting the courts do their thing, the fact is that quite a few people welcome a court resolution. Because then evidence talks and bullshit walks - and Trump and his moron followers are nothing but all about bullshit.

I'm waiting. To quote the guy in the movie 'Hackers': "Is that all you got? Come at me!" - with actual evidence. No more bullshit assertions and innuendoes.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 10:02 utc | 119

EoinW & Norwegian

Yes, the comments section has been hi-jacked. MoA has generally gone downhill. RSH and KC sound like the same person, same style, same tone, same structure, same length, same boring repetitive themes, some insulting bent, etc.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 10:15 utc | 120

JackRabbit , why would people here believe in your posts ? you are the one that keep saying Trump will win in a landslide when all data pointed the other way. Now that you been proven wrong again (as your other nonsense) why keep posting your drivel here ?

hint : no one believes everything you posted

Posted by: milomilo | Nov 9 2020 10:16 utc | 121

RSH @ 118

Me? I’m waiting for SCOTUS as I’ve said previously as that is where the key issues will be decided. They are the people who are properly qualified to decide what is bullshit or not.

I support neither side as I’m not American. I’m just interested in a current geopolitical issue that either way will have ramifications beyond the election. Waiting to see what Dimitri Orlov’s take will be in this issue.

As an aside, it is interesting to me that a self described anarchist spends so much time defending the status quo.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2020 10:22 utc | 122

So here is what Trump is doing, besides playing golf. Because life must go on, at least for US'ians. Not so much for people in the crosshairs of the US. The below is from an article at The Hill:

The Trump administration is readying new sanctions against Iran as the clock runs out before President-elect Joe Biden is inaugurated, Axios reported Sunday. 

Trump officials are working with Israel to institute a series of sanctions on Iran, 10 weeks ahead of Inauguration Day, two Israeli sources briefed on the effort told Axios. 

Elliott Abrams, the administration’s envoy for Iran, went to Israel on Sunday and discussed the planned sanctions with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and national security adviser Meir Ben-Shabbat. Abrams is also scheduled to meet Minister of Defense Benny Gantz and Foreign Minister Gabi Ashkenazi. 

The Israeli sources told Axios the president’s administration aims to establish the “flood” of sanctions to boost pressure on Iran ahead of a transfer in power to Biden, who has previously said he wants to return the U.S. to the 2015 nuclear deal.
Officials hope these sanctions make it more difficult to return to the agreement that Trump backed out of in 2018.
The U.S. has organized a “target bank” of Iranian entities to sanction, and a source privy to a  briefing from Abrams told Axios that the envoy said the administration aims to announce a new set of sanctions every week ahead of Inauguration Day.
Israeli sources told Axios that these sanctions are separate from the Iranian nuclear program and instead linked to its ballistic missile program, assistance to terror organizations and human rights violations. 

The State Department did not immediately return The Hill’s request for comment. 

Abrams also plans to travel from Israel to the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, two countries that have teamed up with the Trump officials and Israel against Iran. 

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will arrive in Israel on Nov. 18, Israeli and U.S. officials told Axios, for a trip to the region aimed at escalating pressure on Iran.[...]

Posted by: teri | Nov 9 2020 10:41 utc | 123

Back to lurk
Posted by: Walter | Nov 8 2020 17:19 utc | 36

Good to hear from you Walter, thanks for temporarily unlurking, look forward to more of the same.

Posted by: BM | Nov 9 2020 10:50 utc | 124

A very good data analysis thread (30+ posts) pointing to highly likely election fraud

Evidence Suggesting Voter Fraud in Milwaukee – a thread.

I’ve been looking at the vote counts in Milwaukee, and there’s suspicious patterns in the data that need explaining. Proving fraud is difficult, but a lot of irregularities point in that direction

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 10:53 utc | 125

Posted by: Helen | Nov 8 2020 15:27 utc | 19

Loads and loads of game changing memes around. But this one no doubt tops it. It has been circling a little longer around. ...

Maybe this variant with a little help from the UK looked at superficially, considering the man's blog or non-blog but database

About the Author: Brett Redmayne-Titley has authored and published over 180 in-depth articles over the past twelve years. Many have been translated and republished worldwide. He can be reached at: live-on-scene ((at)) Prior articles can be viewed at his archive:

What I find vaguely amusing in a lot of those endeavors, it feels what the author ultimately desires is that the people behind the numbers raise their fingers or stand up, so they can be counted: Would you please stand up, so we can count you? (give us a call, sent a complaint) ... In Brett's case it concerns those from his perspective spinelessly audacious creatures that did indeed split their votes between Democratic president and Republican representative (Senate). Who in the world would do such a thing. Well, me, quite often really.

Posted by: vig | Nov 9 2020 10:55 utc | 126

Helen, that was a bit fast:

It must be now also be recalled that Biden, during a campaign stop Q&A presser on Oct 25, stated very clearly, that…

“[W]e have put together and you guys did it for President Obama’s administration before this, we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”

While his statement may also prove the upcoming need for the 25th Amendment, if it is not an admission of complicity, it is certainly an indictment of the media.

Posted by: vig | Nov 9 2020 10:59 utc | 127

Posted by: Helen | Nov 8 2020 15:27 utc | 19

Seems, my longer comment did not work. Yes, Biden probably misspoke. Both parties didn't trust each other.

Here is a little help from the UK, who too picked up on the meme. The slightly manipulated video was forwarded on twitter by Eric Trump and spread from there.


Personally I am very, very careful with the Saker.

Posted by: vig | Nov 9 2020 11:08 utc | 128

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2020 10:22 utc | 121 As an aside, it is interesting to me that a self described anarchist spends so much time defending the status quo.

I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of my purpose.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 11:19 utc | 129

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 10:15 utc | 119 MoA has generally gone downhill.

If b has a problem with me, he will tell me - as he has in the past. You, OTOH, can fuck right off.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 11:23 utc | 130

Mark2 @ 122

My condolences. I guess you missed out when FB, Google @ Twitter were hiring.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 9 2020 11:27 utc | 131

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 9 2020 2:52 utc | 85

Without being long-winded, I agree with what you say, that’s about where I’m at too. It won’t be six months, maybe a couple if he is lucky. Trump didn’t get any honeymoon. Biden won't either.

Bolivia is going to save the world before we are done.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 6:20 utc | 96

Thank you for that, but the computer I surf with does not have sound and that is intentional.

We don’t need a casus belli to go to war, that’s just part of the con, and anything will do. Lots of examples of that too. No casus belli, we’ll make one up.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 9 2020 11:51 utc | 132

Fake anarchist who's really a fascist @129

Where I come from you are wot is known as a "WANKER!"

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 12:05 utc | 133

Isn't it fascinating how our hokey resident "anarchist" is by far our most vociferous and voluminous proponent of quickly accepting the establishment narrative about the election and halting all discussion of the election fraud? Wouldn't anarchy be better served by promoting doubt about the establishment's electoral machinery? It is not as if we don't have anything to work with here where suspicions of fraud are concerned.

I just find it curious that a self-proclaimed "anarchist" suddenly went all-out with establishment advocacy. Of course, he is a California "anarchist" which suggests that he got his ideas about anarchy from Hollywood movies, which in turn means that he is just an anarchist larper.

Oh well, it used to be fun reading his posts, and I suppose going forward it will be entertaining to see what new issues he is larping about from time to time.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2020 12:22 utc | 134

Some indicators (not exclusive) that an anarchist is really a fascist:

1. Promoting hatred of the other,
2. Advocating or provoking violence,
3. Eschewing human cooperation,
4. Being funded by non-worker groups (such as elite groups, intelligence services, rich individuals, etc),
5. Advocating or supporting transhumanism,
6. Extreme individualism,
7. Extreme darwinism,
9. Promoting such writers as Max Stirner,
8. Denying anarchism is a form of (and rooted in) socialism/communism.

It is obvious that anarchist groups, like Trotskyite groups, are prone to infiltration and being used by the intelligence services.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 12:31 utc | 135

vig | Nov 9 2020 10:59 utc | 126

It must be now also be recalled that Biden, during a campaign stop Q&A presser on Oct 25, stated very clearly, that…

“[W]e have put together and you guys did it for President Obama’s administration before this, we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”

While his statement may also prove the upcoming need for the 25th Amendment, if it is not an admission of complicity, it is certainly an indictment of the media.

c'mon now. why on earth would you take one sentence out of context and publish it as some inadvertent revelation?

the first hit for fact checking

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2020 12:33 utc | 136

Australia. I notice the familiar repetitive propaganda technique used to sell messages in the media to the gullible and uneducated public. It's all in a word and that word was again deployed today in federal parliament to describe Joe Biden. The word, wait for 'decent.'
I fail to understand how someone who describes himself as a zionist can also be described as decent.
Posted by: Paul | Nov 9 2020 6:36 utc | 101

All the Western politicians are zionists, that is how they qualify for the appointment.

But more to the point, when somebody needs to massively rig the primary vote to become a candidate, and a massive corruption scandal at the last minute before the election is totally ignored, and for whatever reason appears to have claimed to have set up the most comprehensive voter fraud organisation in history, and in fact there does seem to be a flood of claims of fraud, and yet that person is described as "decent", it speaks volumes to the meaning (or lack) of the spoken word in Western society today. It makes George Orwell's "1984" talk of "newspeak" blush with understatement.

Today we live in a world where truth is lie and lie is truth, up is down and down is up, black is white and white is black, good is bad and bad is good ...

Welcome to the Great Reset ...

What is clear is this: the more you have to shout about something, repeat it endlessly and endlessly, and ruthlessly silence and censor naysayers and doubters, the more obvious it is that the message you are trying to force down everybody's throats is in fact untrue. Same applies to Covid-19.

As the Nazi Propaganda Minister said, if you repeat something often enough people will believe it.

Posted by: BM | Nov 9 2020 12:48 utc | 137

@Bemildred | Nov 9 2020 11:51 utc | 131

We don’t need a casus belli to go to war, that’s just part of the con, and anything will do. Lots of examples of that too. No casus belli, we’ll make one up.

I know, but the show must go on, so I was pointing out one way a false flag could be used to establish a supposed casus belli and get rid of Biden now that he has served his purpose and is in the way.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 12:49 utc | 138

ADKC @136

Yep. Right wing "anarchist" groups are infiltrated because they are a convenient place to harvest disposable headchopper-class kooks for covert operations. Trotskyist organizations are infiltrated because they are dangerous to the establishment if not kept off balance and constantly split.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2020 12:50 utc | 139

OK. I'm done here. Don't any of you ever cross my path. I'll kill you.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 9 2020 12:52 utc | 140

The classic larper farewell!

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2020 12:59 utc | 141

Smith @ 114

You're correct that it is good more people realize what a fraud all our elections now are. Unfortunately it still matters who wins this election. We all have to live in western society. If Biden wins, and the US gets in lockstep with everyone else, it will be endless conformity, with little room for individuality or free thinking. We also will have to live with a large minority or small majority which hates anyone who thinks differently. Today's liberals are tomorrow's Stasi.

I'm not suggesting President Trump is the grand savior. More like a "fly in the ointment". Nevertheless, if these people can blatantly steal an election and get away with it then it will embolden them and we'll see even more outrageous behavior. I'd prefer to put that off for as long as possible.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 9 2020 12:59 utc | 142

@BM | Nov 9 2020 12:48 utc | 138

Thank you, this paragraph is very insightful:

But more to the point, when somebody needs to massively rig the primary vote to become a candidate, and a massive corruption scandal at the last minute before the election is totally ignored, and for whatever reason appears to have claimed to have set up the most comprehensive voter fraud organisation in history, and in fact there does seem to be a flood of claims of fraud, and yet that person is described as "decent", it speaks volumes to the meaning (or lack) of the spoken word in Western society today. It makes George Orwell's "1984" talk of "newspeak" blush with understatement.

The election was not really about Trump vs. Biden or 'Democrats' vs. 'Republicans', it was simply about truth vs. lies, and the liars and cheaters claim they have won by trying to change the meaning of words like 'decent' and 'truth'.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 13:01 utc | 143

Amazing, the air is already fresher!

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 13:01 utc | 144

@ Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 12:31 utc | 136

Anarchists are not necessarily on the left side of the political spectrum. They may also be on the right side. The only constant is that it is always on the extreme sides.

During the war of Ukraine, for example, the Anarchists sided with the White Army against the Red Army, in an alliance that almost wiped out the Jewish community there. This was in 1918-1921, well before the rise of the Nazis.

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 13:02 utc | 145

If Democrats rigged the Election, why is it that they didn't rig the House and Senate seats they lost in their favour that appear on the same ballot, in order to prevent Republicans from blocking all their legislation?

Those of you pushing this Trump-initiated conspiracy, including b have no decency.

Trump has told over 10,000 lies during his Presidency. He has made deception the rule not the exception. He is a pathological LIAR with a serious pattern of dishonest behaviour to prove he is trying to steal this Election.

Trump is a dangerous and sick individual who has no respect for the truth and is creating social unrest over his ego and inability to lose gracefully. When people can no longer recognize the difference between truth and fiction they have been rendered truly powerless and can be easily weaponized to a fever pitch of hysteria with cult-like prodding and persuasion to secure fascist rule. This is treachery against democracy and this is what Trump is engaging in; a coup against democracy.

Again, what is the point of Dems fixing the Presidency and losing House seats and not fixing to gain Senate seats on the same ballots?!

You are aiding and abetting a hostile takeover with clear deception! This is shameless and evil.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 9 2020 13:04 utc | 146

Rita Panahi @RitaPanahi

Biden: “We have put together the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organisation in the history of American politics”


Posted by: Mao | Nov 9 2020 13:07 utc | 147

Is this Emma a bot or what?

Does it keep posting the same Iranian reference to models, scaffolding whatever it was the last time and only time I looked it up? Important aspect no doubt ...

Is that you, Babak playing troll, Kooshy, no one but "the beige" one comes to mind able to perform such a troll-capriole. OK maybe you want to communicate instead of spamming??? Yes pretty crowded here.

Ok balloon, or bubbles, maybe one or the other SST Reader remembers Adam L. Silverman, Great Freedom Production:

But then again, now that Sidney Powell is legally involved on the Trump election fraud front "Maybe it ain't over till its over". Would be interesting to see it fully and transparently cleared up this time around.

Posted by: whosoever | Nov 9 2020 13:08 utc | 148

Milo @ 120

I'm a believer! Fact is, Jackrabbit was correct. President Trump did win in a landslide. That's why they stopped counting at 10:30 EST. He won Florida faster than in 2016, He was routing Biden in Pennsylvania(which was a close victory 4 years ago). He had a bigger lead in Michigan this time. He made gains in minority voting. Biden's performance in Texas was one of the worst by a Dem ever.

It was a landslide win for President Trump. This is why the Dem fraud needed to be so massive that it couldn't be hidden. Of course, if you want to believe Biden got more votes than Obama during his wins then you are entitled to your opinion. I must admit that if a senile candidate can do so well then I can't wait to see which party comes up with a comatose nominee first.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 9 2020 13:11 utc | 149

We always knew how corrupt the DNC was. Last Tuesday(actually Wednesday morning) we got to see how easy it is to rig an election when a corrupt party has the full support of the media, the Deep State and half the Republican party. Now we get to see how corrupt the US justice system now is. The cheating in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan & Wisconsin(perhaps more states) will be exposed and punished if that justice system still works.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 9 2020 13:16 utc | 150

Mao | Nov 9 2020 13:07 utc | 148

knock it off. what is your agenda?

you know very well this is one sentence taken out of context.

If you are going to post BS, at least make it a little bit harder to disprove.

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2020 13:17 utc | 151

vk @146

It could be argued that all Marxists are ultimately anarchists as their goal for some point in the future is the "withering away of the state". Naturally, the only kind of anarchy that we can have without an extensive transition period where society heals and matures; the only kind that we can have tomorrow, in other words, is the "Mad Max" kind of anarchy. It doesn't matter if that is approached from the left or the right, the end result of "instant gratification" anarchy will be the same.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2020 13:18 utc | 152

Circe @ 147

You're a wee bit confused. It's the media which has told 10,000 lies about President Trump. I am bemused by people who don't care about truth or decency preaching about such things to others.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 9 2020 13:21 utc | 153

EoinW @150

The bunny was claiming that the establishment was cooking up a landslide victory for Trump, yet the establishment is currently trying to get Harris installed and is heavily gaslighting everyone who questions their rush to call the election. The call of a landslide for or against is irrelevant. The role of the establishment in the election and its objectives are, however, of critical importance.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2020 13:26 utc | 154


As you know the MSM has anointed Biden (Hillary) as the next President.
Today Politico put legal procedures in quotes. Legal procedures are so-called legal procedures.
The true procedure is what the MSM says it is.

Putin won’t congratulate Biden until ‘legal procedures’ are settled


Posted by: librul | Nov 9 2020 13:54 utc | 155


Couldn't agree more.

On Consortium News (now on today's Counterpunch) there is Jonathan Cook's excellent article: "Election 2020: Sleepy Joe's Task Is To Put Liberal America Back to Sleep Again." And you'd better believe this rather than the totally spurious, usual "Lesser Evil" Bullshit encapsulated in the title of Norman Solomon's piece also on today's Counterpunch: "Progressives Made Trump's Defeat Possible. Now it's Time to Challenge Biden and Other Corporate Democrats." (Solomon, like Chomsky, is a "Lesser Evil" promoter. As IF any Evil is lesser.)

Frankly - Cook is the more accurate, insightful reporter of reality; Solomon the more dutiful sheep dogger.... I.e. Rinse, repeat, rinse repeat ad infinitum and without ANY significant change to any really existing policy. Well, let me take that back a bit: the Warmongering and making, drone killings will almost certainly increase under a B-H admin. Of course, all framed in "nice speak" - nice so long as you are NOT the target people, culture, society...But when - really, truly - did the US bourgeoisie (a large proportion of the electorate no matter Blue or Red side/face of the Janus party) actually give a moment's thought about the people we bomb, the lives, livelihoods, water supplies, homes we so lustily destroy? Hey - their pension plans/shares rise monetarily as the MICIMATT benefits... Murdering people makes oodles of boodle...

Exceptional - too damned right but not in the bullshit Winthropian miasmic manner.

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 13:59 utc | 156

@154 EoinW

You didn't address the glaring truth in bold; why is that?

Why would Dems rig only the top of the ballot and not rig the part that gives Biden the power to pass his agenda???

Because it's NOT RIGGED!

Because Trump is attempting a scam on the American people trying to STEAL an Election and upend Democracy...that's why!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 9 2020 14:06 utc | 157

@Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 13:02 utc | 146

Anarchists also allied with greem-brown and reactionary traitors inside GDR, high officials at government and security apparatus, to overthrow the German socialist republic. Just like happened in the USSR. To demonstrate the univerasl rule that no government is ever overthrow without unestimable help from inside.


Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 9 2020 14:09 utc | 158

Has anyone heard anything about those OSCE Observers who were - according to NPR at the very beginning of this election farrago - supposed to be here watching/observing some of the counts? Since that single mention on NPR - Not a single mention of them.

Did they bother to observe? Were they hanging out in DC, enjoying a glass or two, feet up?Wny haven't we heard their observations? Were they really here???

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 14:18 utc | 159

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 14:18 utc | 162

U.S. election tarnished by legal uncertainty, baseless allegations of fraud: OSCE

Also, some interesting perspectives on Trump, election:

We Were All Wrong About Trump. Even the Mooch. What? Doesn’t Anyone Believe in Come-Backs?

Trump had no real presidential values or skills. And America is in a mess because of it. Biden, who won more votes than any president in history, has four years to clean the mess up and bring some sobriety to the White House.

But his hardest job is to convince the American people that Trumpism and its myths – that it is out to protect blue collar workers and make America a super power like in days gone past – has no depth to it and that the Republicans should think long and hard about backing Eric or Ivanka when the time comes to begin presidential elections again in four years’ time. Republicans may well think that due to Biden’s highest ever voting record, it will need to take extreme measures to stand a chance. The smart thing would be to let the Trump camp, which might include Steve Bannon even as a candidate, go it alone and wheel out someone like Mitt Romney.

The other thing we learnt about the Trump period is that, after all, you’re never too old to become president. One has to wonder if Biden will even make it to a second term which will bring him into well over his 80s.

And also, just when you think American media can sink to an all-time low, Trumpism takes it further into the ditch. Trump’s genius was his ability to manipulate the media agenda through tweeting and distracting journalists away from the hardcore subjects like healthcare, the environment, the economy and foreign policy onto the president’s jaw-dropping ignorance of almost everything and not being able to spell words like “polls”. Or not being able to find Iran on a map of the world. Or for the thousand of pitiful lies he spewed out.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 9 2020 14:47 utc | 160

@158 Anne

In war, you have to know when and how to pick your battles.

If the war is for true Democracy which is the bedrock for everything else including pure Progressiveness, and Democracy is facing a real existential threat; as Trump and his minions, have proven by stacking the Courts with hundreds of lackey judges and skewing the Supreme Court and militarizing the police, then for God's sake fight that damn front and stop waging another battle that will surely 100% destroy your ultimate goal. You can't wage a massive battle for democracy against a fascist thug like Trump while distracted by waging another for progressive purity.

Quit making the enemy, Trump, who is harnessing and securing fascism, the enemy of your enemy Biden! What purpose does it serve at this moment, except to bl0w up your ultimate goal?! What purpose does it serve to make the fascist pig enemy your damn friend!?

The battle must be to get rid of the totalitarian now before the tools of fascism become iron! The war is won by choosing your battles wisely. You are sabotaging the ultimate progressive goal.

Unless, of course, your reason for being is really hasbara concern mole...I mean, tr😈ll.

You've already betrayed yourself.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 9 2020 14:47 utc | 161

@Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 14:18 utc | 162

Well, it was also OSCE "observers" who never saw the shelling of civilian houses in Donbass, thus, do not take it bad when it happens in the "West".

Also, on another vein, for all the ripping of clothes here about voting/recount fraud, you oh so rightfull US citizens claiming from the law now, where were you when your country was doing the same abroad, like in Brazil, Bolivia, etc..
I did not read you none in this any of the newcomers...
That Trump followers/supporters claim for legality and truth is a joke when Their POTUS has championed on fake news and alternative reality as no other. Could yo utake it when it could be that chickens come home to roost?

For what I am witnessing, at bird sight, not reading the whole threas thoroughly, what has happened at MoA is that it has been invaded by the usual crew of pro-Trumpers who, previously to the adverse result of the elections ( and B´s obvious bias favouring Trump..)or posted very few or have not appeared here ever..

The tactics of coordinated effort of mass harassing to get rid of those few remaining who hold opposite ideas, and develpo them well, is verbatim carbon copy of those displayed at the Unz Review...

Just saying...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 9 2020 14:50 utc | 162

@ Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 6:28 utc | 100

Use searchterm "Interview with Source on Electronic Vote Fraud"

I did not have to sign in when I used the searchterm.

FWIW (for what it's worth), though I expect the bald flack person to be anointed, I also expect that the election is a failure.

The Presidency was understood in 1787 to be a tricky matter. It remains one.

In the metaphysical sense, I suspect, the failure of the institutions is a signal indicator that there is no longer a US State, but only a simulacrum.

In the precise sense, I also hold the opinion that Trump actually won, but that Harris will be anointed. This amounts to a singularity. These have a precise definition in maths, , and I propose there is an approximate political equivalent.

This singularity can't last. Defeat in bald fact follows the metaphysical rule.

Posted by: Walter | Nov 9 2020 14:52 utc | 163

Flynn’s attorney has been put in charge of Trump’s legal team investigating the irregularities during the election:

That is the best evidence I have seen that portends that this election is another Trump kayfabe.

The Flynn prosecution was pure kayfabe

The FBI said Flynn did not lie.
The two FBI agents swore to the Mueller team that they believed Flynn "was not lying". When the the two expert eye witnesses say there was no crime you don't have a case.

So how did Flynn get prosecuted and found guilty without any evidence presented against him?
Easy... Flynn and Trump provided the evidence.

And then Sydney Powell arrives on the scene and poof the evidence against flynn magically disappears. How is that possible??? It is pretty easy, since there was no evidence in the first place.

If this election goes to Trump due to voting/election irregularities that are discovered in the next few weeks, I for one will be convinced the irregularities were intentional to once again deify trump. Time and again we have seen this same pattern of the left wing media telling us over and over and over that trump is dead and finished and every time eventually trump is magically resurrected like christ almighty himself to live another day.

How many times do you have to watch the same movie before you can figure out the ending?

Posted by: jinn | Nov 9 2020 14:53 utc | 164

the first hit for fact checking
Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2020 12:33 utc | 138

Welcome dan of steele, why steele? Ready for fight? For which side exactly? If you tell me, I might try to recall your name in the flow of matters.

Ok, what facts should I check?

Posted by: Vig | Nov 9 2020 15:00 utc | 165

vk @146

True anarchism is a form of communism/socialist based on coperative principals. The main point of difference between Marxist Communism and Anarchist Communism was the need for a state (the dictatorship of the proletariat). Marx viewed the proletariat state as being a necessary transition which would be dispensed with once a true communist society was was achieved. Anarchism viewed the state as antithetical to communism and that the beureacratisation would become oppressive and permanent.

It is anarchism's misfortuntune that fascists, embarrassed to call themselves by their real name, now call themselves anarchists.


It is tiresome when people raise Ukraine "whataboutery" because Ukraine's experience and history is so unique that any point raised means little outside Ukraine. There is so much that you omit:

1. The territory of Ukraine was ceded by the Bolsheviks to Germany in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. This act accentuates the idea of Ukraine as an independent country and the need for oppressed Ukrainian peasants to fight for their freedom.

2. The Ukainian vassal sate (of Germany) experienced increasing unrest which developed into the rebels achieving dominance in mid-1919 (following the collapse of the German front). Note: there is a lack of Soviet State involvement in fomenting and supporting unrest upto this stage.

3. There were two main rebel movements; one was Social Revolutionary, the other was Anarchist. South & East Ukraine was dominated by Anarchist rebels who formed the Black Army. The Black Army effectively allied with the Bolsheviks and fought against and defeated the White forces in the area.

5. In November 1920, less than two weeks after assisting Red Army forces to defeat the White forces, Makhno's headquarters staff and many of his subordinate commanders were arrested at a Red Army planning conference to which they had been invited by Moscow, and executed. Makhno escaped and fled Ukraine.

6. Allegations of antisemitism (during the Russian Civil War) were made against the White army, the Ukrainian People's Republic and forces loyal to the Bolsheviks. The allegations against Makhno's forces are based on the Bolshevik account of the war and are unproven. A considerable number of Jews took part in the Makhnovist anarchist movement. During the Russian civil war, the Central Committee of the Zionist Organization in Russia reported on many groups committing pogroms against Jews, including the Whites, Nationalists, and Red Army forces, but did not accuse Makhno or the anarchist Black Army of directing pogroms or other attacks against Russian Jews.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 15:02 utc | 166

@166 Walter, your link goes off the page and has already contributed to messing up the thread somewhat. USE THE HTML TAGS,

Posted by: Circe | Nov 9 2020 15:08 utc | 167

@ Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 15:02 utc | 169

There's no evidence Anarchism is a form of Communism. Marx completely disagreed with Bakunin, and called him "Mohammad without a Qur'an".

There was some effort to create an Anarchist Theory at the end of the 19th Century, but eventually the failure of design of the whole concept threw it back to its ideological nature. Nowadays we can affirm with certainty Anarchism is not a theory, but a mere ideology (on par with Liberalism and its sub-classes such as Nazifascism, libertarianism, neoliberalism and radicalism).

The only ideology with a scientific theory behind it today is Communism (or "Scientific Socialism", if you want to weed out the vulgarized versions out there). The rest is just Opium des Volkes (religion).

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 15:12 utc | 168

Yes, the comments section has been hi-jacked. MoA has generally gone downhill. RSH and KC sound like the same person, same style, same tone, same structure, same length, same boring repetitive themes, some insulting bent, etc.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 10:15 utc | 120

[my snark]
I could not agree more. This is a brilliant application of the best tool in political analysis: "THEY ARE ALL THE SAME". E.g. Communists + Socialists + Biden (not to forget PLA and CCP, while subsets of Communists that deserve particular attention). I was not aware of the latter, but Trump ads convinced me completely.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 9 2020 15:13 utc | 169

Vig | Nov 9 2020 15:00 utc | 168

just open the url I posted and it will enlighten you.

First of all I don't have a dog in this fight. I admit that I am happy to see the end of Trump as I consider him an embarrassment to the country. surely we have more distinguished people in a country of 330 million. but that does not make me in love with Biden. I voted for the third party candidate on my state ballot.

Second, I am come from a small town named Steele and I am Dan.

I just don't like to see foolish things posted that are not at all true. I saw that even RT ran that story. tsk tsk. Fact checking is relatively easy with today's internet. It can actually be used for more things than arguing with strangers and looking at funny pictures of cats.

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2020 15:28 utc | 170

Hack has completely spammed the thread. His interlocutors look more and more like socks. Hack brings nothing not to be found on CNN or at NYT. Except his lies about bank robbery.

And then Hack tells us he is going to hack our offline identities, come over and put two .45 hollow points in our brains. This is how blogs end.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 9 2020 15:31 utc | 171

vk @171

Marx did not invent socialism/communism but he did formulate Marxist Communism, the principal idea of which was the bureaucratic state (the dictatorship of the proletariat) to control the development of society towards a utopian communism. So you're able to say that Anarchism is not Marxist Communision, but you are not able to deny that Anarchism is a form of communism - and no expulsion from the First International can change that.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 15:32 utc | 172


I find myself coming by this place less and less precisely because of hostile assholes like Hack. if b continues to censor non-establishment Covid analysis while letting a transhumanist reject like Hack spray his low-testosterone spunk all over these threads, there's really not much reason left to stop by.

Posted by: lizard | Nov 9 2020 15:39 utc | 173

Anarchism is eclectic and compatible with parts of the Marxist corpus. If there is a "theory" to anarchism it is one that has yet to be formalized, but informally we can discuss anarchism as a theory of political power, and one which has the explicit goal of ensuring that power is equitably shared by all in society, such that relationships of domination are minimized or totally abolished. Marxists ignore the anarchist critiques of their politics to their own peril. The revolutionary state bolsheviks like Bukharin sought to construct, which he chastised anarchists like Luigi Fabbri for not believing in, ultimately killed him, as Bakunin and other anarchists in the First International expected would occur to revolutionaries inaugurating their "people's state."

Posted by: fnord | Nov 9 2020 15:39 utc | 174

The only ideology with a scientific theory behind it today is Communism (or "Scientific Socialism", if you want to weed out the vulgarized versions out there). The rest is just Opium des Volkes (religion).

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 15:12 utc | 171

Incidentally, Roman Catholics of intellectual bent have a similar opinion, theologians of their Church are best trained and apply superior logic and analysis of sacred text and empirical facts. In political movements, "theory" may have rather loose connection to activities, and both evolve over time. Marxism uses labels and paradigms that are seriously dated, although they may be used with common sense (that patches the obsolete parts and avoids "dialectics" as a magical tool), this is not always the case to put it mildly.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 9 2020 15:46 utc | 175

milomilo hits a new low with more baseless accusations ... sigh.

He has never gotten over my suspicions about Erdogan's apparent coup attempt (which Erdogan called a "gift from God").

<> <> <> <>

milomilo @Nov9 6:23 #98

“biswapriya” are known as hasbara troll who always denigrate “putin” as weak ... jackrabbit the resident hasbara troll support this “biswapriya”

I actually disagreed with Biswapriya Purkayast in my comment @Nov8 16:13 #28
My own view is that IMO Russia's "answer" to the Empire's 4-gen warfare has been demonstrated in Ukraine and Syria and their ability to counter 4th-gen warfare will only improve via Russia's alliance with economic powerhouse China and the SCO military alliance.


milomilo @Nov9 10:16 #121

... why would people here believe in your posts ? you are the one that keep saying Trump will win in a landslide

The prediction of a landslide was wrong. But the thinking behind the prediction - that the Deep State may want to make Trump into a type of 'Glorious Leader' - is yet to be determined. If Trump can pull out a win then he will be even more adored by his fans and admired by many others.

A win would fall a short of 'Glorious Leader' because the adoration is not as widespread as that designation indicates (a landslide would be needed for that). But a Trump win - after what Republicans have depicted as an existential battle with the left - would likely strengthen him sufficiently to allow him to do unpopular things like take the country to war (which is my biggest concern).

Anyone following my prediction (as milomilo appears to be) would be aware of, and understand, what it is based on as well as the thrust of my recent comments that reflect similar concerns about Trump gaining undue stature and what he might do with the power that stems from that.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 9 2020 16:00 utc | 176

@164 etc Bemildred, Circe, H Schmatc - WHY do YOU All assume that if you criticize the Blue Face of the JANUS Party (don't you know what that means?), you must - well, of course, be FOR the Red Face (the Strumpet in this case) of that Party? Absolute Twaddle and Typical of USians who seem completely unable to think outside of the two-faced monopoly.

I Loathe and Detest the whole MICIMATT and its puppets in the WH - whatever color Face they present. They are ALL murdering, terrorist barbarities - it matters not which group they purport to be, they all kill, destroy, devastate other peoples, in other cultures, societies and all for the better wadding of the MICIMATT wallets (and their own).

It is a totally corrupt system that should stripped of all $$$$ and widely expanded (in order to be rather closer to a democracy) to fully include at the very least as many political parties as effing Germany has.

It is a country, a polity, a plutocracy, a militarized entity whose only reality is world dominance by terroristic devastation and non-compliant governments' overthrows. Utterly grotesque, barbarous - and anyone who supports anyone of either side of the Janus party are complicit, usually as far as I can see by - as Jonathan Cook clarifies - dropping into immediate slumber once their "choice" is in the WH. How many times has the likes of Chomsky et al advised lesser evil voting and THEN fight for what's right, only for everyone to go back to life as it was before the election?

For Everyone's info - I wrote in my "choice" (I'd've written in Hawkins had I known that the Green Party was still in existence; not on offer this time round in AZ). There is NO Way I would have voted for either handsy, racist, lock em up and throw away the key, bomb them till they disappear, Biden or KH equally lock 'em up and throw away the key while looking the other way when the Filth committed crimes...And not give the Zionists everything they want including the disappearance of every Palestinian (yes, the Strumpet - but so will go B and KH); And not give sanction to death Iran, Venezuela, Cuba... No way...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 16:04 utc | 177

vk @171

Everyone these days sees the problem of "science" becoming a new "religion".

Another term for "Scientific Socialism" is technocracy and that is a nightmare that we have plenty of evidence for today (whereas Marx and Engels did not). It is just another idea and there is little in the way of "science" behind. I would go further and state that the indications are that any implementation of "Scientific Socialism" will inevitably lead to dehumanisation.

Engels was greatly encouraged by Darwinism in his formulation of "Scientific Socialism". Well, we can either say that it was early days and Engels didn't really know what he was advocating or we can claim he saw the future clearly (as, I guess, you would) and that puts Marxist Communism in bed with National Socialist ideology and (more significantly) practice. Experiments on humans, genocide, racial superioty, transhumanism, etc. it's all "Scientific Socialism" when you think about it, unless you can draw a line for me?

It seems to me that any attempt to draw a line results in non-coercive, free choice of the indivdual ideas, and that points you in the direction of Anarchism.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 16:08 utc | 178

@164 Circe - I'm in my 70s and definitely not a troll and even more definitely not a hasbarista. Quite other. But such accusations are the typical response, are they not, to those who refuse to accept another's arguments?

Moreover, I would suggest that you read a little more carefully. Where do I write that I support the Strumpet???????? Buggeration - hardly. I am immensely, profoundly pro-Palestinian, BDS; deeply ANTI-Imperialism of ALL sorts and sizes - sod it (think bugger), I came from the "sun never sets on" empire's metropolis. I am completely pacifist, absolutely anti-war. Jaw jaw, not war war generation.

So your assessment of what I have written is totally misread. Might you be an arsehole? (Arse - the original English word deriving directly from its German forebear, not the one for donkey. And unlike Ass (donkey), arse can be and is used as a VERB.)

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 16:16 utc | 179

Exchange on Pepe's FB page:

A: "I wanna know how much money comrade Putin pays Pepe... to defend the agent Orange!!!"

B: "Your comment reminds me of my school days when I took a class in Logic.

Premise1: Trump does not like Biden
Premise 2: Pepe does not like Biden
Conclusion: Pepe likes Trump
It makes perfect sense. I can see you are well versed in Logic too."

Posted by: spudski | Nov 9 2020 16:25 utc | 180

What really, really galls me, incensed me and makes my stomach churn bile is witnessing Trump nonchalantly out golfing while Covid infections reach 10 Million, and around, close to 1000 Americans are dying every day, while his destructive lies are tearing democracy apart.

Nero or Samson?

I swear, sometimes I'm prone to suspect Trump has an implanted chip, because, the plot in this movie keeps expanding further into the unimaginable and unconscionable twilight zone. I can't believe people don't see the clear picture of what's going on here as Trump leads the blind on and forces everyone into enabling the mechanics of this subversion.

Stop aiding this STEAL! This is a conjob. Trump is casually playing golf while America burns as if he is either sure of the outcome or doesn't give a damn what wreckage he leaves behind that he can later use to complete the coup on Democracy.

What's happening is beyond belief. We'll see if Trump & co. succeed. He hasn't pulled it off yet, but yes, there is a lot of mounting damage already especially in regards to people's inability to distinguish fact from fiction and propaganda. Of course, that weakness already existed before Trump, but Trump has capitalized on it, amplified and I fear, cemented it.

Trump is fanning incitement and the Russia collusion investigation that failed because Mueller abandoned the finances part of it, is what Trump is using as a basis for his election fraud grievance.

More than ever, Trump's finances must be investigated to the last decimal point. The truth will bury the Trump dynasty and the fascist coup that has been mounted to undermine democracy, once and for all.

Follow the money...

Posted by: Circe | Nov 9 2020 16:30 utc | 181

_K_C_ @ 105: " Glenn Greenwald argued in the linked piece, Trump governed like an arch-Republican, not a fascist tyrant like the MSM and "resistance" Democrats tried to paint him as..."

Thank you for expressing well in your entire post what I would have said myself (only you said it better) this morning. On Sunday I was able to have a great discussion with my son in Omaha who had voted for Biden, and I have to say that was the first time I could explain myself, exactly as you have done here. I would do the same for a Trump supporter - haven't had that opportunity. The hyperbole is off the scale on both sides, or has been. I hope everyone calms down.

Oldtime Democrats (I was one) who have felt betrayed since 2000 should take heart that this time the anomolies in the system will be scrutinized as they were not when earlier candidates for the presidency stepped aside too soon once the first count was in. Gore did that; Kerry did that. If the system is now robust enough to stand being checked and rechecked, that will be a very good sign. We certainly know how hard it has been to trust all the different parts of it and that trust needs to be restored.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 9 2020 16:31 utc | 182

I voted for the third party candidate on my state ballot.
Second, I am come from a small town named Steele and I am Dan.
Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2020 15:28 utc | 173

If I were American, I have no idea what I would have done. More often than I wish to remember the same dilemma I witnessed: thus with you fully. On the other hand isn't it odd considering the US supposedly the Ultimate Land of the Free, voters are given two often equally bad choices only? With the ones voting third party blamed afterwards for ultimately electing Bush Junior and thus The Great War on Terrorism? E.g. and thus somewhat responsible? Third Party futile resistance?

Looked at this from outside: "Draining the swamp" is an interesting issue. Just as hard to define the "swamps" various variants. Blob?

Yes, I noticed "of Steele" could refer to location inside the US.

Thanks Dan, now I go back and check your link.

Posted by: vig | Nov 9 2020 16:32 utc | 183

@ Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 16:08 utc | 181

Even if your line of argumentation was correct (it is not), it would still not save religion's bacon. It would just drag science to the mud religion already is into.

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 16:34 utc | 184

Richard Steven Hack @Nov9 6:31 #101

Large-scale voter fraud simply does not happen in the United States - at least, not by any of the "ballot stuffing" methods being proposed as the reason for Biden's win. It only happens from redistricting and voter disenfranchisement prior to an election - not *during* an election, except in very minor cases relative to the overall election. And it has never influenced a Presidential election in recent memory.

It's simply a non-existent issue.

Yes and no.

Trump and his minions are claiming widespread voter fraud across many jurisdictions to sow FUD. But they only need to alter the outcome in Georgia and Pennsylvania and find ONE faithless elector.

This election had the largest mail-in voting ever. By far. And Trump been criticizing the mail-in voting for months. So the people have been well prepared for his challenge to mail-in votes.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 9 2020 4:02 utc | 91 If nothing else, we have the example of the 2000 election: Gore had actually won but conceded to GWBush.

Apples and oranges comparison. Gore was ahead by 500 votes. Biden is ahead by 100,000 - and the counting isn't done yet. Trump has only one way to win: prove electoral fraud across two or more states (or Pennsylvania alone) to invalidate 20 Electoral Votes.

100,000 sounds like a lot. It's actually 107,000 in the contested states but that's only 0.000544% of the total votes cast in those states. And Trump doesn't have to win all of the contested states.
Biden is ahead by about 45,000 votes in Pennsylvania; 10,000 votes in Georgia; and 17,000 votes in Arizona; 20,000 votes in Wisconsin, and 15,000 votes in Nevada.

And it's not "apples and oranges". _K_C_ has also compared 2020 to 2000.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 9 2020 16:41 utc | 185

@ Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 9 2020 15:46 utc | 178

You would have to give me examples of "dated" nomenclature in Marxism (plus the author who claims to be Marxist). Marx is the only intellectual the liberals don't seem to bother for you to criticize and discard without having ever read.

But no. Marxism is science. The Theory of Value is scientifically proven. The Law of the Tendency of the Profit Rate to Fall is scientifically proven. Marx's wage law is also already scientifically proven to be true. Etc. etc.

Capitalism will fall even without a natural catastrophe. What will happen after it falls, we don't know for sure (as there is no theory of communism). But Marxism scientifically proved capitalism is historical, not natural (the liberal thesis).

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 16:43 utc | 186

the first hit for fact checking
Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2020 12:33 utc | 138

Was that your link? I was aware of it, its obviously too nuts to believe.

So Biden is suffering from Alzheimer but then again in some - careful - secret meeting with campaign helpers told them, nothing to worry guys we have got this all set up, but we nevertheless need you to walk around ring bells and get people to register.

Makes huuuge sense, doesn't it?

Posted by: vig or whoever | Nov 9 2020 16:44 utc | 187

NPR is on - as it is until night when the classical music station is on - have to obliterate the silence that is existence without my late husband.

Apparently - indeed it has been apparent since KH was "chosen" by the DNC-Obama-Clinton lot - her election was important because - guess what?: of her sex and her skin hue. Of course, What else matters???? Clearly what does NOT matter is her really existing record as DA first of Sf then of CA in toto. Nope - those "diversity" markers. Are people that - let me try to be polite here - Gormless?? Ignorant?? Must be deliberately so.

On those grounds - Well, on the sex ground - they'd have ALL voted for the Snatcher!!! How utterly mindless is that sort of - whatever? How does voting for someone, applauding, lauding someone's "election" (do you get elected to Veep? didn't think so) on the sole grounds of their sex and skin hue mean anything when they are demonstrably an inhumane piece of work? A deeply integrated part of the existing racist, lock 'em up and throw away the key (many peoples of high melanin skins) establishment, a profoundly pro-zionista and their 70+ year barbarity toward the rightful indigenous dwellers of the land of Palestine, a corporate-capitalist-imperialist.....?

Decent? It is abundantly crystal that words have lost their meaning...

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 16:53 utc | 188

@ Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 15:32 utc | 175

Marx never classified the dictatorship of the proletariat as the bureaucratic state. This is a 20th Century projection that takes the USSR as fait accompli.

Marx is not the utopian school. You're confusing yourself with the utopian socialists, who came before Marx in France (Proudhon et al). Marx's version of socialism is called "scientific socialism" precisely not to mix with the utopian variant of the beginning of the 19th Century.

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 16:55 utc | 189

@180 Anne

Can you then f**cking go to war with Biden AFTER you destroy Trump son of a b*tch fascist for attempting to hijack the judiciary, militarize the police and take down Democracy???!

Can you put your testicular fortitude in the burning priority and INTEGRITY instead?!

Of course not! And don't rub your Progressive resumé in my face and pull age rank on me as some kind of proof of who you really are and your unblemished integrity! Let's see you take down the Trump fascist menace...then get back to me with your high and mighty attitude missy!

I'm waiting.....

Posted by: Circe | Nov 9 2020 16:57 utc | 190

@190 vk

You can also say that patriotic nationalism is scientifically a spiritual phenomenon of history.

And it is where you and I divert.

I believe that a homogenous people will suffer together for a cause if only awoken to it. Unfettered neoliberal capitalism has put America to sleep.

It is slowly waking up and will prove that it belongs to history. People will rejoice and true diversity and sovereignty of nations will reign supreme.

Provided the globalists don't tip over the card table aware of their losing hand.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 9 2020 17:15 utc | 191

Brave new world in the colonies, the Estonian interior minister resigns after calling Biden corrupt. A little taste of the ice cream cone to be served, worldwide, hunters cone with Camela* smile.

*Camelar: from romaní, to want, to seduce, from sanskrit kama, desire, love. (Kama Sutra Circe?)

Posted by: Paco | Nov 9 2020 17:15 utc | 192

@194 Circe

You really do believe that someone who is not for YOUR preference is therefore For the opposing side. Talk about truly existing binary, walled in thinking...

If the majority of the electorate (fat chance there being so many bourgeois) had decided to vote third - enth party/write in - as in fact a true democracy gives full space for - then perhaps the Janus Party (corporate-capitalist-imperialist plutocratic to its two colored nail tips) would be extirpated. And a real democracy stand a chance here.

Why do you find it impossible to believe, accept - nay recognize - that to NOT support your wing (i.e. face) of the Janus Party, does NOT mean supporting the other wing/face??? Clearly incapable.

And could you please, would you please, explain how Biden and Harris will be of such benefit to the rest of the world? And I mean ALL of it.

Posted by: Anne | Nov 9 2020 17:28 utc | 193

This sounds interesting, if true...

BREAKING: Donald Trump may win the state of Georgia after 132,000 ballots may be ineligible.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2020 17:33 utc | 194

vk @187

"Even if your line of argumentation was correct (it is not), it would still not save religion's bacon. It would just drag science to the mud religion already is into."

Sound's like you've lost the argument!

vk @190

It is misguided to claim that these theories are "proven", they remain "theories" because the experiments required for definitive "proof" of economic theories are just too immense and complex to administer. It doesn't mean they aren't "true" but it does put the "theories" in the realm of belief and dogma and outside the scientific method.

The question is no longer about what happens when the rate of profit falls.

Capitalism is not really about profit, capitalism is about extraction (of value) and accumulation. The rate of profit falls because of the process of accumulation and extraction. In the past Capitalism has renewed itself due to destruction of capital, debt jubilee, innovation, new lands, conquest, etc. which allows a new round of accumulation.

We are potentially at a unique moment in hostory. An elite group of Capitalists may be on the verge of achieving something like maximum accumulation (when, effectively, they own everything). You may well imagine that this is a crisis for capitalism (it is) and that capitalism will defintely collapse (not necessarily). I think that the elite group have studied Marx's theories and have determined a way out of the accumulation conundrum; this way out amounts to "pulling up the ladder" or "cashing in their winnings" and freezing the development of human society.

What the elite group may be seeking to do is transistion to a new form of society which seems to be like communism but is really a form of feudalism, I will call this new form of society "corporatism". It will take about 20-30 years to establish "corporatism"

These are the envisaged features of this new society:

1. People will own nothing, everything will be rented.
2. People will have a guaranteed subsistence income, but will not be able to accumulate any surplus or any property (no matter how petty).
3. People will have productive lives only, when they cease being productive they will cease living.
4. People will be controlled and monitored 24 hrs a day. The use of pacification drugs will become universal
5. There will an end to innovation and progress because that is a threat to the elite group.
6. The population will be reduced and people will all be moved to cities and live in allocated units within contained/restricted areas.

The advantages for the elite group is that they get to keep everything and no longer worry about losing their wealth to competitors, they will be above the law and be able to do anything they want, and their progeny will experience the same.

Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 17:34 utc | 195

This at NC:

I use a safe format for me - my post there that this is an important meme didn't show up yet, and I don't think Yves realizes how important this would be, even just as a message, for so many young indentured citizens. I imagine she only is looking at the portfolio factor. I'd love to see Michael Hudson's take if anyone has it.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 9 2020 17:41 utc | 196

Regardless of Biden winning (or not), what really matters is:
1) Republicans still control the Senate and picked up many seats in the House. No blue wave.
2) It is quite clear that minorities increased their voting for Trump vs. 2016. Otherwise how to do you square where all those new Trump votes came from in 2020 when whites voted less for Trump, overall?
3) The Republicans also increased their strength at the state level. 2 more states are now "trifecta": Republican governor and both chambers of the state legislature. Democrats failed to flip even one Republican legislature as of Friday afternoon: CNBC source
To put this in perspective: Republicans control a majority in 59 state legislative chambers vs. 39 for Democrats as of June 2020 - that number is going to shift further. It is projected that Republicans will control 23 trifectas vs. Democrat 15 - unless Arizona flips.

All in all, a very weak win for Biden. Not that he was going to change anything substantial anyway - but now it is clear that won't happen even if Biden wanted to.

The ongoing state level domination by Republicans also points towards continuing weakness of Democrats outside a handful of coastal urban areas.

This is pretty much the definition of a Pyrrhic victory for Biden (assuming he wins) and the Democrat party, particularly since this means the 23 Republican controlled state trifectas will dominate the redistricting of House seats after the 2020 census (and the same for the 15 Democrat minority).

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 9 2020 17:42 utc | 197

@ Posted by: ADKC | Nov 9 2020 17:34 utc | 200

The issue here is merely definitional: religion is a set of dogmas and rituals whose credence and political power stands over a priori assumption they're absolutely true - i.e. faith.

Science is a methodology of inquiry in which truth itself is seek through the formulation, confirmation or refutation of hypotheses. Either you can understand the results of a scientific inquiry or you can't: that doesn't concerns the scientist (albeit it is desirable for you to be able to understand it). It is completely different from religion.

I repeat: it's not because you can't comprehend a scientific fact that makes the fact not scientific. This is different from religion, where if I don't believe in a given god, said god ceases to exist.

I won't show you a link to a dictionary; you can search for both terms yourself.


Profit is value. The capitalist invests a determined quantity of value in money and initiates the production process, which generates surplus value. Then the produce is sold in the market (circulation). If all the value is realized, then the capitalist will end up with the quantity of money he invested + x. Since only labor can produce more value it costs, it is self-evident all of x came from labor. However, from the point of view of the capitalist, the whole thing produced x because he bought the whole thing. Profit is, therefore, surplus value with another name, in relation to total capital instead of in relation to variable capital ("wages").

Posted by: vk | Nov 9 2020 17:48 utc | 198

Norwegian @ 199

It comes from the Peoples Pundit.

Re: Georgia, which we just began to touch now, there are 132k CoA flags in Fulton County, alone.

Just so everyone understands, and my listeners will, I'll keep going regardless of the results of this particular election.

We're never going to stop until we clean it up.

Just under 10k confirmed dead returned absentee ballots in Michigan. We're done, for now.

While I'm open to the idea some of these have been rejected, I'm not open to any outright dismissal they all were rejected.

This was a small, tested listed that suggests irregs are plenty.

The People’s Pundit that made that discovery is profiled in this NY Post article:

Baris avoided that pressure by crowd-funding his battleground polls. His Twitter followers and podcast listeners ponied up the cash to conduct them — and chose the states he surveyed.

In return, they received above-average transparency, with access to Baris’ poll questions, crosstab results, and maps showing just where in each state his respondents were found.

Big Data Poll

He is no crank.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2020 18:00 utc | 199

My comment on the student debt issue raised by Chuck Schumer in a post at naked capitalism hasn't appeared, though others expressing the same opinion have. I was struck by Yves' negative heading, and I posted the link above as it definitely would be a game changer that if it had been so worded by Schumer as a suggestion of policy before the election would have tipped the balance in Biden's favor. It is startling that with it now being a locked situation as far as passing anything in Congress, the suggestion that debt be cancelled by executive order is coming now. My thought is that if Biden can do it, so could Trump.

But then, I don't really understand politics at all.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 9 2020 18:00 utc | 200

« previous page | next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.