Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 30, 2020
Brexit Promoters Lament Predictable Brexit Results

It is only one month until the United Kingdom of Britain leaves the European Union. There is still no deal about the future relations between the two entities and the time is running out. But even if a deal about the economic issues is finalized and signed there will still be many changes and inconveniences.

One argument with which the British government promoted Brexit was the "end of free movement". Most people who voted for Brexit probably thought that this would mean the closing of a one-way street that only affects migrants to Britain from lower tier countries. Now they are waking up to the fact that Brexit is closing down a two way road.

Furious British expats blast EU's new post-Brexit travel rules which will ban them from spending more than three months at a time at their holiday home from January

  • Travel rules will change after end of the post-Brexit 'standstill' transition period 
  • After January 1 UK tourists visiting EU countries will be restricted to 90 day stays
  • The rules have prompted a backlash from Britons who own holiday home in EU 

These are not 'new' EU rules. Starting January 1 Britons will be allowed on vacation in the EU for a maximum of 90 days in every six month period. These are the long existing rules for non-EU citizens if their country has no agreement for bilateral free movement with the EU.

The Daily Mail, which now laments the issue, campaigned for years for the UK to become one of those countries. It is now outraged about the consequences.

There will be more such 'surprises' which Brexit promoters will lament about even when these were utterly predictable.

Now, as Brexit becomes reality, people are finally waking up to the myriad of problems it will create for UK car maker, farmers, logistics and everyone:

On Jan. 1, the free movement of goods across the English Channel is due to end for the first time in half a century. The change has sparked fears of severe bottlenecks at British ports and highways, where customs officers will inspect trucks amid an acute lack of staff that could rattle supply chains.

Some 10,000 trucks cross the channel on ferries each day, moving about half of all goods between the U.K. and the continent while dozens of daily sailings move freight mainly between Dover on the British side and the French ports of Calais and Dunkirk.

“The problem is that you have to stop things,” said Richard Ballantyne, chief executive of the British Ports Association, a trade body. “Both the driver and the cargo will require documentation and if you queue up, you would immediately face congestion and delays.”

Large parts of the businesses that define London as a global financial center are moving to the EU:

The London Stock Exchange's pan-European share trading platform, Turquoise, opened for trading on Monday, a spokeswoman for the exchange said, joining two rival operators.

The Amsterdam-based hub was set up to avoid disruption to the LSE's EU customers, who face having to trade euro-denominated shares inside the bloc from January because Britain's full access to the EU ends on Dec. 31.

Two other London-based share trading platforms, Cboe and Aquis Exchange, have opened so-called Brexit hubs in the EU to trade shares denominated in euros.

Goldman Sachs is also opening a platform in time for January.

While opening alternative trading platforms in the EU won't lead to many jobs leaving London, other trading-related activities, such as clearing and settlement, are also likely to move over time.

Many international banks in London have opened Brexit hubs in the EU and are under pressure from regulators to undertake activities such as stock, bond and derivatives transactions for EU clients from inside the bloc rather than in London.

Those are quite a number of high paying jobs and a lot of tax revenues that Britain will be missing:

[Consultancy] EY said in a report last month that the 7,500 roles and 1.2 trillion pounds ($1.6 trillion) in assets that have moved already may just be the beginning. It expects further shifts in personnel and assets once the U.K.’s transition period officially ends.

That bodes ill for the U.K., where finance employs more than one million people, makes up about 7% of the economy and accounts for more than a 10th of all tax revenue. Despite that, the industry has garnered little of the attention bestowed on fishing, which makes up just 0.1% of the U.K. economy, in the protracted Brexit negotiations.

The level of access between the markets of Britain and the EU is still not defined. The negotiations are still ongoing but hang on fishing rights, a level playing field to prevent unfair competition and the governance of the deal.

While the EU wants a deal no one is sure if Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson really wants to achieve one. He may be just play for time to achieve a hard Brexit without any EU agreement.

But even if a last minute deal gets done there will still be many changes and disruptions. Without a deal those will be tremendous and may damage Britain beyond repair.

Comments

@98 Mark 2

So you can see the elite now control both main party’s in the U.K. The Brixit Party got neatly put back in its box, by the powers that be. To be forgotten about. Leaving a major power shift to the Tory’s, The elite and Israel in control. Who dares gainsay them ? Same as in the US.

Sorry, but I must correct you. It’s not the elite and Israel in control–it’s Zionism in control, because that’s what Zionism really is. Zionism isn’t just limited to the occupation of Palestine; and the media is Gatekeeper ensuring control is unbroken.
Corbyn was an emergent threat to Zionism, i.e. full control of both parties, so he was swiftly banished with the gatekeeping media’s help.
Zionism is the real enemy of democracy.
The choice is always the same, only sometimes, one side is more fascist when a serious correction is in order.
Trump was a correction to scrap the JCPOA and fast-track other Zionist ambitions.
Now, that the more lenient Biden is taking over, Zionists, like Thomas Friedman on yesterday’s Cuomo Primetime, who pretended to be against Trump, are already pushing Biden to keep with Trump’s maximum pressure against Iran strategy and not go back to the original deal, but include a ban on ballistic missiles in the deal leaving Iran like a sitting duck for when Trump or Tom Cotton return with the Republicans to finish the job on Iran.
It’s a tag team, and Zionism is always the common denominator.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 1 2020 13:54 utc | 101

I figure that the UK, where I got two relatives living in, has more to lose than gain by its brexit in the form it has been shaped.
In the short run, perhaps much more. Since of course the UK is not an industrial, real economy booming place anylonger… as they were 80 years ago.
Since they are a high income country, since are close to wealthy Europe and since they will not abhorr any of their stupid elites neoliberal conceptions… they have two options.
Option one is to cling to and grab more fiercely than nowadays the US scrotum as a means of survival or at least hope keeping a living standard. Or option two, discuss and pick up a choice of long term economic association with Peking.

Posted by: augusto | Dec 1 2020 13:58 utc | 102

It’s a fact that the Israeli lobby groups were largely instrumental in distroying the Corbyn led Labour Party.
We know have had Boris Johnson as prime minister for one year. The same time we have had the covid virus.
Britain is on its knees.
High street shops closing down. Thousands dying. No one but no one blames Johnson.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 14:00 utc | 103

oldhippie @97
You can’t stop interacting. No retreat. As you point out that serves the interests of the elites.
Sure, there are great numbers of posters in online media who are shall we say “less than forthright” in revealing their allegiances and objectives; who are for all intents and purposes marketing narratives. There are more now than ever before due to the prevalence of gig work and large numbers of otherwise unemployable Millennials. Hipster word-lumpers hanging around the entrances to NGO and corporate offices with “Will shitpost for food” scrawled on scraps of cardboard. The discourse version of cannon fodder.
We are also inundated with AI bots as Bemildred @95 points out, though as we can see such bots are poorly suited for long-form posts such as what is more typical here and are much more effective on platforms like Twitter. They are the discourse version of drone warfare.
Just know that participating in online discourse really matters. If it didn’t matter then the elites wouldn’t be investing so much on trying to control it. People like Bezos and Zuckerberg didn’t get rich by spending on charity for gig workers whose labor doesn’t pad their bottom line.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 14:00 utc | 104

The other persona I’ve been watching is the ever ingratiating james. He posts over at the turcopoliers house and says things that would get anyone else banned instantly. Banned before first post appeared. Lang is of course ex-DIA. A colleague could have asked him to tolerate an intrusion. Don’t believe for a moment he colonel decided to be tolerant inside his own shop. …
Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 12:29 utc | 97

Interesting to watch people, isn’t it?
Pat Lang always disliked the left, the softest liberal position on matters was what got you banned, while the most vicious extreme right position were always fine. T’was always easy to see.
I have been wondering about James on SST too sometimes. Not here, but over there. But over there you have to be careful not draw the wrath of the master. He is choleric at times. I always wondered how long it would take till TTG would become a target. That happened recently. When I made a comment about the short exchange between the two in comment that passage somewhere else immediately disappeared, and mine never showed up. He challenged him as a soldier.
A career soldier versus a real one. Fred is his tag-team partner. They are mental twins.
A lot of the people from the services have left by now. Now he is left with his co-author Larry Johnson, they wrote a book on intelligence together.
SST is an old man. I don’t think there are or ever were many handlers, junior or senior handlers, as you call it, on his blog. A lot of people with experience in the military no doubt, and they all, almost naturally lean right. Often rabidly so.
Mark2 made some good points to the extent I watched his comments. And James does a good job at surviving on Pat’s blog. To survive you only have to not challenge him directly or indirectly, it’s that easy. That’s his sore point. If you watch your temper, everything is fine.
Mark2 is not that far from me mentally. But I can try to look more closely. I dislike the troll or handler discourse. Good that b censors very, very little. Pat always wants to remain in control. And he has a minor manipulative strain.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 1 2020 14:46 utc | 105

It won’t serve the European Union for Brixit to be a success. Britains plan to jump into bed with trumps Amerca are withering on the vine.
The Biden govenment is unknown and untested, not good for U.K. forward planning.
Mean while both U.K. and US have lost all credibility from the Russian Chinese point of view.
Brixit was supposed to make Britain an independent world power again. Not a hope. The law of unforeseen circumstances as far as the public goes!
But for the super rich —- profit out of chaos. The rich now have no allegiance to any one country.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 15:47 utc | 106

@101 Mark2
To abbreviate Zionism as merely Israel is to play into the false front/cover for the wider occupation. Behind that front lies the question: how is it that Zionism has such a hold on the Democracies of the U.S., U.K., France, Australia, Canada and so on? The answer lies BEYOND Israel.
Why can’t that question be asked when it’s so obvious what Zionists have constructed: a one party system in each of those countries?
Zionism is not relegated merely to the occupation of Palestine. Zionism is way more complex and powerful.
Why is it that the policy towards China has turned so hostile? Ziofascist Trump started this hard turn and believe me, it was the Zionist plan all along, with Kissinger, the other Zionist Trump whisperer, stepping into the political arena again to steer Trump in that direction.
It’s too bad that most Jews don’t run from Zionism, for what it represents; a subversion of democracy, but power is the ultimate seduction, but so is the false security Zionism assures them. Zionism is the anti-thesis of security.
I refuse to be muzzled when it comes to expressing the truth, nay, expressing the obvious. Anyone of any persuasion who sees what Zionism has achieved should DISAVOW it immediately.
It’s not my problem that Jews are holding back on disavowing Zionism! That’s not going to muzzle the truth; but it will grow resentment for those people not privileged, but harmed and restricted by Zionism and I’m not referring to the Palestinians, which are the obvious victims.
Accusations and labels of anti-Semitism shouldn’t be used as a cudgel and a muzzle so that Zionism can continue usurping democracy and the press! People should be free to point out the glaring facts on how their will is thwarted and subverted each time. How many more Corbyns should Zionism destroy before people see this for what it is?
I stated that when Trump is out I will be Biden’s harshest critic and push back on the Zionist pressure (influence) that I know will drive Biden. Of course I know that the Dems are part of the one-party system! I’m not naive, however, slowing the fast-track destruction of Iran and Cold War against China takes precedence and not some fantasy that writing in a name not on ballot is somehow a powerful message. It’s squat!
Zionism isn’t a minor player in political arenas; it is a geopolitical seismic influence that should be recognized for what it is today and routed. That’s what will work! It starts with recognizing the problem.
If Bernie is accused of being a sheepdog, then the Democratic Party is the sheepdog for Zionism, cause you know Republicans are mostly all in with Zionism, and pretending Trump and the Republican Party are not Ziofascist is the height of dishonesty and hypocrisy.
There’s one major thing I agree with the Saker on even though he overdosed on Trump’s kool-aid: it is the Anglo/Zionist Empire, but when I see how leaders like Corbyn are taken down and spit out by the Zionist machine; I think it’s high time it’s called out as the Zionist/Anglo Empire. That switch has been happening for the past hundred years and is now the rule. Zionism is fully manifest; and is the elephant in the room that we should stop ignoring.
Zionism has long since expanded its role in the world way beyond Israel’s borders, therefore, our perception of Zionism should not remain limited to its occupation of a mere speck of desert.
You can choose conservative or a more liberal edge, but there is only one Party. Zionism. This reality is not democracy!

Posted by: Circe | Dec 1 2020 16:06 utc | 107

…Not Murdoch. And I’ll stick wasps up my arse before I vote tory
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 23:46 utc | 55

Wouldn`t the wasps be the p.o.s.h. circles in the UK? Wasps doesn’t seem to make sense in that context. British usage moved to American by now, or that always was the case? And port-outside-starboard-home is only a vague historical relict?

Posted by: enigma | Dec 1 2020 16:31 utc | 108

The Chinese mooned their vehicle Chang’e 5 to bring soil samples from our satellite, for the first time since 1976. The opium wars are history, well not completely, now the theater is Afghanistan.

Posted by: Paco | Dec 1 2020 16:31 utc | 109

Can’t b come up with some serious hardship from Brexit. not living in Britain I don’t know what are certain to be some negative outcomes for Britain by Brexit.
Posted by: gepay | Nov 30 2020 20:33 utc | 33

I lived in Britan from the early 70s up the Thatcher, what puzzled me most were the shortages. It definitively was sugar at one point. I don’t need much sugar thus I doubt that troubled me much, but there were other more seriously curious shortages too.
Mind you, creative energies based on a solid study of present export import affairs? I am sure though it has been done or is in progress now.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 1 2020 16:47 utc | 110

Everything works together. The Covid lockdowns will hide the Covid shortages while blaming hard Brexit. The future mandatory vaccine card will be their version of social credit that will be needed for things like flying. But hey, a passport will be the burden. Lost tax revenue can now be blamed on Brexit rather than the humanitarian disaster that has been created for a manmade virus that kills less then one percent. Populism is getting their punishment from your globalist banking buddies. Beautiful…no?

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Dec 1 2020 17:12 utc | 111

@Arata | Nov 30 2020 16:40 utc | 1

What will happen to Scotland?
There is rumore that they will try again for independence referendum .

Independence? Replacing foreigners from London with foreigners from Brussels?

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 1 2020 17:21 utc | 112

@ oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 12:29 utc | 97 …. enigma | Dec 1 2020 14:46 utc | 106..
the question of AI bots is an interesting one.. it has come up at moa before.. no one is going to know when this is happening.. i agree with william @ 105… participating in online discourse matters… you can imagine all you want, and i think it is important to imagine too, as opposed to having an inflexible viewpoint on all this.. i don’t view mark2 as a bot myself.. he is fairly transparent as i read it… as for donkey, king lear and etc – hard to know what the game is their, but i think it is a bit more complicated..
as for my participation in pat langs site, i see i am not the only one who likes to see what is being discussed their… the fact is i have been banned and then banned again and what i dig about pat’s site is i can continue to say whatever i feel like saying, knowing he is going to see the message even if he doesn’t publish it… and, often times he doesn’t publish my comments because they piss him off! he was using the supposed issue of election fraud in venezuala to make a case of election fraud in the usa.. i said that was a really bad way to make a case, as the usa has been determined to screw venezuala right left and center…. of course my comment didn’t get published… the posters are primarily ex military types, including TTG who is more normal as far as it goes… pat lang is still living in the past fighting the commie under his sheets… it is funny and sad to watch, but it is what it is… try ignoring pat’s ‘i’m banning you’ comment and just post, regardless of being told you are banned.. that is what i did… sometimes my comments get thru!
in summation, there might be AI bots, but you are either going to be able to tell easily, ,or not.. as for people that annoy you – circe as an example for me – just ignore them… she is like an insane one issue women who squeals and sh-reeks regularly and who i put my own mute button on.. otherwise, as wg says – continue to converse would be my advice..

Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 17:23 utc | 113

Enigma @ 106
You are reading version 2.0. There was 1.0 and 1.1. Version 1.0 you would not agree with at all.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 17:27 utc | 114

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 14:00 utc | 104
It’s a fact that the Israeli lobby groups were largely instrumental in distroying the Corbyn led Labour Party.

Ok, ok there is this quite well done documentary by Al Jazeera looking into matters. Four parts easily available online: The Lobby, TV series or documentary series if you like. For anyone who does not quite understand lobby groups. No doubt Joan Ryan was a tool of the prototypical: “the lobby”? …
We know have had Boris Johnson as prime minister for one year. The same time we have had the covid virus. Britain is on its knees. High street shops closing down. Thousands dying. No one but no one blames Johnson.
Not quite the same time. You would agree?
Otherwise:
Reports from wherever on the Islands you live are welcome. France seems/seemed to have had a rather harsh lock down regiment, just as returning friends from there were forced into a 14 day quarantine in London.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 1 2020 17:54 utc | 115

Here’s an article by an Italian economist
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/carlo-clericetti-solidarity-only-in-exchange-for-subordination/
and here’s one, in the same Defend Democracy daily posting by a Spaniard.
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/stuart-medina-miltimore-the-mystery-of-the-dwindling-eu-funds/
They both make arguments that suggest that the EU cannot survive so long as voters in the member countries have any choice.
To put it very simply: the EU is a totally neo-liberal project, its institutions are all designed to protect the wealthy and imperialism from popular reform.
The EU has a poster boy: Greece. If you like what it did to Greece and the people of Greece you will support the EU. But if you do, and you are not part of the tiny elite that constitutes the ruling class, or auditioning for a job as one of their ideologists, apologists, or cops, then you are acting irrationally.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 1 2020 17:59 utc | 116

Gruff, James, enigma
Let me give you an example from another site. One which will not get free publicity in this comment. It is mostly a one man show but there are comments. The master of the site puts up long posts full of information that checks out. Except for the fraction that doesn’t. And the smaller fraction that does not check out and is truly strange. The master himself has a completely fictive bio that no one could believe. He does have disciples and true believers and a small number of followers who quietly hint they are not in it for the complete spiel.
So there was a post about historical occurrences that I know very well because I was there. I posted a comment that stuck strictly to what I had seen. And participated in. There was an immediate reply from the master that my post was a perfect example of spook writing and spookdom. And the post will remain up so all can study how spooks write. And I was just, well, OK, now I know how you operate, and no point in further replies. Next there was a reconsideration. They decided maybe I wasn’t that bad and was just older. Whatever. I had created a unique moniker for my one post. Suddenly that moniker was posting lots. And it all sounded like an older guy. And they even had phrasing that I might have used. And then there were biographical hints that were definitely me. For a flipping comment thread someone had figured out who I was and researched me. And let me know what they were doing. So they of course had my email and it would not take much sophistication to work from there. They had to put at least some effort into what they did. Some of the bio stuf, would not, I think, have come up in a casual search.
So yes, social media is a playground and maybe a battlefield.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 18:07 utc | 117

I remember PM Heath, miners strikes, power stations shutting down, and the three day working week.
Just to say that 1970’s UK was a quite different beast from the presenthday country. At that time, joining the EU (or EEC, as it was then called) brought obvious benefits. And those who joined earlier benefited more than those who joined later.
Now it’s the other way round. Being in the EU has obvious disadvantages – immigration, to mention just one. Now it’s those who leave first who will be best off. Consider Germany: as long as Germany is in the EU it has to pay what amounts to war reparations. Germany will not become wealthy until it has left the EU.

Posted by: passerby | Dec 1 2020 18:51 utc | 118

@vk. 94
I still don’t understand this reference to “free health care”. Any healthcare in (public healthcare facilities) for visiting or resident Brits is paid for by the UK government (unless, like me, they have private medical insurance)….it’s what Brits pay their taxes for….it’s not “free” anymore than if you pay to insure your car….and then have a crash and the insurance company replaces it….it’s not a “free” car. A Brit won’t get past the reception of a Spanish hospital unless he can prove that costs will be paid either by UK Govt or private insurance. Otherwise he pays cash upfront. The UK must be the only country in the world that allows people to get off aircraft from Nigeria or wherever, take a cab to a London hospital and have a baby….without paying a cent. Now, THAT’S free health care.

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Dec 1 2020 18:55 utc | 119

oldhippie @119
That is neither a bot nor a typical starving nickel-posting astroturfer. It is still difficult to get bots to sound convincing in any higher-level discussion where posts are longer than a sentence or two. I’m not saying you cannot have an entertaining discussion with modern bots, but the fact that they are bots still leaks through any detailed discussion. It’s harder to spot bots in short-form media, though (Twitter, most YouTube comments, etc).
What you describe doesn’t fit the profile of a typical nickel-poster either. They are not paid enough to invest that much time and effort into their posts. As well, they get paid by the number of posts, not the quality of the posts. Their employer might spot check some of their work, but mostly they just scrape the forums and count the references to their employee’s handle or screen name in the data pile.
No, that sounds more like someone on a salary and not a simple piecework lumper.
People shouldn’t be so surprised by this. The private sector spends hundreds of $millions on influence campaigns on social media trying to get people to buy carbonated sugar water. Why would they not do the same, along with their captured tools in government, to promote their strategic national and geopolitical interests?
For those looking to cash in search the job boards for job titles like “Social Media Content Coordinator” or “Social Media Specialist”.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 19:05 utc | 120

@ 119 oldhippie… interesting story… thanks for sharing… it is easy to have your personal info taken and another person created out of it.. having to provide an e mail is part of the problem.. i have a website.. for anyone who has my e mail, they can do a search just with the e mail and my website comes up.. that is an annoying aspect to posting at a lot of blogs.. but my reality is i only post at moa and sst! i avoid facebook like the plague, although i use it from time to time for promo purposes for gigs.. the reality is we can’t know that much about the people we are talking about and our imagination can come up with all sorts of scenarios for who or what it is that is talking to us…. i agree wtih @ 122 william and do make a big distinction as he does – between a blog like this and twitters, fb, or youtube comments – again all areas i avoid saying anything.. i will leave you with a beautiful brian wilson song – your imagination..

Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 20:24 utc | 121

@ 117 bevin quote which i totally agree with – ” the EU is a totally neo-liberal project, its institutions are all designed to protect the wealthy and imperialism from popular reform.” i would say the same of nato, imf, world bank and etc. etc. too… more people need to see these institutions for what they are…

Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 20:29 utc | 122

@109 enigma
All I meant was I’ll do something awful to myself before I vote for the conservative party. Brit humour lost in translation possibly?
Not sure what you meant by port outside starboard home, sorry.

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Dec 1 2020 22:23 utc | 123

gruff @ 122
Of course writers get salaries. Everyone at Brigade 77 gets a salary. If I were the brigadier I would have plenty of the command working their own stables of writers. If MoD is ready to pony up for the Brigade proper can’t see why they wouldn’t pony up for contract help. It is only funny money. We know for sure about the one troll farm because it is publicized, there would logically be others.
Boredom and ennui are a given for a troll. But there is also the little hit of dopamine or endorphin when a post gets a response. Some will enjoy milking that, some will take pride in tradecraft. There is always the army of the unemployed should the writers become too dull.
Since the Church hearings back in the 70s it has simply been stipulated that CIA takes control of media and control of narrative as a primary responsibility. Ulfkotte filled in some details recently, my take is that everything I see in print, everything broadcast, any outlet, is supervised and controlled. Back in the 50s they had control of most of the little magazines, anything larger kind of taken for granted. They should be far more thorough now. Gobble up everything.
This little blog is different, b seems to genuinely believe in and sponsor free speech. This simply must attract attention. Even the number of views here would be enough to attract attention, the content has to inspire action. How much longer this place will be tolerated is questionable, even here you see the left fascists calling for retribution. (The right fascists of course always do that, they do not seem to control much.) The sheer unanimity of the MSM is astonishing. Minor holdouts as Fox or WSJ are now wholly in line. Mainstream politicians always punch left, the police always punch left.
This place talks about finance a bit, no one seems to notice that shale oil and fracking are dying apace. There will be consequences. Treasury is having a hard time selling to foreign customers. There will be consequences. The US military is rapidly becoming a joke. There are consequences. The climate is simply falling apart. There are already consequences, even if we studiously ignore them, they are multiplying quickly. At same time the endless lockdown is driving the population to madness. Covidians certainly punch left, even as they tell you you are a puppet for Trump/Putin. There is far worse in store.
It is not much of an environment for discussion. Bernhard is wonderful/amazing/steadfast and we can all salute him. While it is allowed.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 22:41 utc | 124

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Dec 1 2020 22:23 utc | 125
I was simply wondering about the combination of wasp and Tory. Wondering if my British friends use wasp too, and posh has disappeared from British slang.
take care.
WASP Wikipedia:
“White Anglo-Saxon Protestants” (“WASPs”) is a term for white American Protestants, usually upper-class[1] and of British descent. WASP elites dominated American society, culture, and politics for most of the history of the United States, maintaining a monopoly through intermarriage, inheritance, and nepotism. Although the social influence of wealthy WASPs has declined since the 1940s, the group continues to dominate some financial and philanthropic fields and politics.[2]
POSH (port outside, starboard home):
As a friend explained refers to British upper class ladies, reflecting which side of the ship to use to vs. on the way back home from India.
OED agrees:
The story goes that the more well-to-do passengers travelling to and from India used to have POSH written against their bookings, standing for ‘Port Out, Starboard Home’ (indicating the more desirable cabins, on the shady side of the ship). Unfortunately, this story did not make its appearance until the 1930s, when the term had been in use for some twenty years, and the word does not appear to have been recorded in the form ‘P.O.S.H.’, which would be expected if it had originated as an abbreviation. Despite exhaustive enquiries by the late Mr George Chowdharay-Best, researcher for the OED, including interviews with former travellers and inspection of shipping company documents, no supporting evidence has been found.
Webster has this:
To Great Lengths
The most elaborate version of the story associates the practice with the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, which from 1842 to 1970 was the major steamship carrier of passengers and mail between England and India. The P. & O. route went through the Suez Canal and the Red Sea. The cabins on the port side on the way to India got the morning sun and had the rest of the day to cool off, while starboard ones got the afternoon sun, and were still quite hot at bedtime. On the return trip, the opposite was true. The cooler cabins, therefore, were the more desirable and were reserved for the most important and richest travelers. Their tickets were stamped P.O.S.H. to indicate these accommodations–in large violet letters, according to one recollection. This account of the origin of posh was even used in advertising by the P. & O. in the 1960s.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 2 2020 2:28 utc | 125

@ oldhippie and …. enigma
further to our conversation about pat lang and my involvement, i decided to make a post at sst on the open thread earlier today after i posted here at moa.. here is what i said and what he published later in the day…
“pat – how do you decide who you are going to ban and who you are going to let speak?? is it just as it looks – if someone has a radically different viewpoint then you, then you are not going to publish it? or?? thanks..
Posted by: james | 01 December 2020 at 12:45 PM”
“james
YES. I do not willingly provide a platform for leftist scum. Why are you still here?
Posted by: turcopolier | 01 December 2020 at 05:36 PM”
here is my response just written and entered, but i doubt it will show up publicly…
“lol… pat, that is not a nice thing to say, let alone the fact your characterization is not very friendly or correct… but i guess since there is a commie under everyones bed sheet, according to you – it is what is to be expected from you!
Posted by: james | 01 December 2020 at 09:26 PM”
see if that gets published! now you can maybe appreciate how this all works and how i roll a bit more…

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 2:30 utc | 126

@127 Enigma
Posh is still going strong here. Never heard anyone use the term w.a.s.p. but that doesn’t mean it’s not used.
Thanks for the explanation.

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Dec 2 2020 6:43 utc | 127

James,
Hmmm, I fully accept that he doesn’t publish that. So his recent complaint, he had received a series of insults was real. … No wonder really, considering the mental defensive TDS faux-news bubble they built up around themselves.
How many such posts does b receive?
I get: You respond to “scum”. In instances like this I take a very, very deep breath and great care not to respond as expected. Always did. Makes no sense. Does it? Pavlovian Dog? You insult because you want to hurt. So it is somewhat satisfying to see the result you produced? No?
It’s more complex and subtle in my case, but yes e.g. the moment you use humor, irony or tiny bits of sarcasm you seem to enter the danger zone. Not concerning all topics, but if they challenge the master or endanger the strategic marching order, so to speak, your post is definitively out. Topics at present: Election fraud. Covid-Conspiracy against the King. Dire warnings against the threatening inner communist take-over. Fighting inner Anti-Americanism. Here TTG is suspect. Thus, cannot be a real soldier.
The matters below may well border somewhat on Anti-Americanism? And there are only two groups that share that trait: the inner (communist, socialist) enemy and the (some) ‘furreigners’. Big no, no.
____________________________________________________________
Amusing that in Election-Fraud-Gate again two foreign state sponsored actors surface, Advanced Persistent Threats. Not as in Russia-Gate–no Russian bears–this time Chinese and Iranian APTs: Dragons, Pandas and Kittens. Caesar’s always have enemies, inner and outer ones.
See Team Kraken expertise:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.15.pdf
1 Declaration of XXXXXXXXX. Pursuant to 28 U.S.C Section 1746, I, XXXXXXXX, make the following declaration. 1. … 2. I was an electronic intelligence analyst under 305th Military Intelligence with experience gathering SAM missile system electronic intelligence. I have extensive experience as a white hat hacker used by some of the top election specialists in the world. The methodologies I have employed represent industry standard cyber operation toolkits for digital forensics and OSINT, which are commonly used to certify connections between servers, network nodes and other digital properties and probe to network system vulnerabilities.
20. As seen in included document titled“AA20-304A- Iranian_Advanced_Persistent_Threat_Actor_Identified_Obtaining_Voter_Registration_Data” that was authored by the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) with a Product ID of AA20-304A on a specified date of October 30, 2020, CISA and the FBI reports that Iranian APT teams were seen using ACUTENIX, a website scanning software, to find vulnerabilities within Election company websites, confirmed to be used by the Iranian APT teams buy seized cloud storage that I had personally captured and reported to higher authorities. These scanning behaviors showed that foreign agents of aggressor nations had access to US voter lists, and had done so recently.
21. In my professional opinion, this affidavit presents unambiguous evidence that Dominion Voter Systems and Edison Research have been accessible and were certainly compromised by rogue actors, such as Iran and China. By using servers and employees connected with rogue actors and hostile foreign influences combined with numerous easily discoverable leaked credentials, these organizations neglectfully allowed foreign adversaries to access data …

Take your pick, several Apt’s available that are attributed to Iran and China. Apts are assumed to be always connected with state sponsors in our case here, we are dealing with Dragon’s, Panda’s, Kittens this time no Bears.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 2 2020 8:18 utc | 128

POSH and WASP were both prevalent in my youth. POSH in particular reeks of marketing hype. WASP refers to the upper class protestants that ran things in the North and most other places here up until quite recently. The emphasis in WASP is on what you are not, you are not non-white, are not any sort of high-church religion, and you are not Irish or Scots or god forbid something worse. GHW Bush was card-carrying WASP going way back. A clique-ish bunch. I’m about half WASP (other half Scots). In the middle and upper classes, it was not a good thing to marry non-WASPs either, but most of us stopped caring about that in the 60s, and rightly so. Generally you need to have plenty of money to be a WASP too, if not you become “redneck” or “cracker” etc.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 2 2020 8:26 utc | 129

And the post will remain up so all can study how spooks write. And I was just, well, OK, now I know how you operate, and no point in further replies. Next there was a reconsideration. They decided maybe I wasn’t that bad and was just older. Whatever. … Some of the bio stuf, would not, I think, have come up in a casual search.
So yes, social media is a playground and maybe a battlefield.
Posted by: old hippie | Dec 1 2020 18:07 utc | 119

Yes, that’s a spiel Pat plays too. Misuse people as exhibition A, so to speak. Offering the image of the enemy. Feeding the rage, while keeping his cards close to the chest. …
Maybe around the 2016 election someone showed up as “Anonymous” rigidly right and claimed to collect lists of people in the comment section, naming names. I didn’t make it onto his list, but ironically responded, I was envious I hadn’t made it onto it. It’s odd how narratives change. Presently the narrative dominates that the Antifa soon in charge will build camps, not verbatim. I consider most of it games. Attempts to feed the hate, define “in” versus “out” groups. Create fear. Drive people out that don’t fit in.
And then: After the boozer closes the counter-revolution starts?
We’ll see.
Yes, depending on the place the web has turned into a battlefield. You either fit in, or you are out. If you don’t realize you’ll better leave. One learns to duck and cover and observe. A lot of places drive within their own narrow reality-bubble now.
Otherwise: Keep your real web profile low, there are lots of tools to find you easily. I learned that early decades ago.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 2 2020 9:19 utc | 130

Corbyn; In the “inquiry” that was published by Labour, about 50% of the accusations were made by ONE person on multiple occasions.
Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 30 2020 21:38 utc | 38

Let me guess, Wikipedia: The Lobby, TV series Al-Jazeera:
First series (The Lobby)
In the UK, the National Union of Students, Jewish Labour Movement, Union of Jewish Students, Conservative Friends of Israel, Labour Friends of Israel and other UK based pro-Israel groups[4] were profiled. Additionally, the series explores claims of antisemitism in the Labour Party and also the role of Joan Ryan.

Wikipedia Joan Ryan:
No-confidence vote
On 6 September 2018, her Constituency Labour Party passed a motion of no confidence in her. It accused her of acting like an “independent MP in all but name”, of making false accusations of antisemitism, and of fuelling a “trial by media” by smearing Jeremy Corbyn.[37][44][45] Ryan blamed her defeat on “Trots, Stalinists and communists”, who she said had entered the Enfield North Labour Party, and said “Just to be clear I will not be resigning. I am Labour through and through and I will continue to stand up and fight for Labour values.”[46]

Now it’s enough!!!!!

Posted by: enigma | Dec 2 2020 9:50 utc | 131

This is the Labour Party now:
Labour ready to work ‘hand in hand’ with finance industry says Anneliese Dodds in charm offensive on City
Pitiful.

Posted by: vk | Dec 2 2020 12:15 utc | 132

Such an idiotic post. As others have noted, the people complaining didn’t support Brexit in the first place. Why wouldn’t they complain about some marginal restrictions on their abilities to jet set across Europe. This web site has gone to shit.

Posted by: Mike Wallens | Dec 2 2020 12:44 utc | 133

VK @ 134
Yes ! All the more pitiful considering how disfunctional the Tory party in govenment are.
The very time you need a strong rational opposition party.
More povity and debt than any other G7 country.
80 thousand covid deaths.
Personaly, it’s very sad, but was all to predictable.
But for the rest of the world I can understand them celebrating !
Long over due, karma and rough justice.
How the mighty have fallen.
We should be able to inflict less damage to the world from here on.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 2 2020 13:10 utc | 134

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 2 2020 8:26 utc | 131
That’s pretty close to how Phil Weiss described his wife’s wasp background. Those elites, according to him managed to take a step back, learned to accept others in their circles. … and somehow became irrelevant.
Did I misread?
But yes, it wouldn’t be surprised that posh was carried over to the US scene. Although I didn’t encounter it in advertisement or via marketing, but via a real British landlady I worked for shortly. Apparently she felt I could substitute all the servants in India she grew up with. One valet only for cleaning and polishing the shoes. How many of them? I forget the details. I got tired of the job, ultimately it was hard to figure out if I was to be a maid or some type of gentlewoman, that had to be around constantly up to until late in the night helping her understand last night’s dream.
__________
Still puzzled a Brit combing Wasp and Tory … But then yes, there definitively is some type of Anglo-Saxon solidarity across the pond.
Mind you we Germans are pretty bad in our adoptions of English. And here, without any doubt the main driver is marketing.

Posted by: enigma | Dec 2 2020 13:52 utc | 135

Posted by: enigma | Dec 2 2020 13:52 utc | 137
“Apparently she felt I could substitute all the servants in India she grew up with.”
LOL. I am not sure what you think you might have misread. That sounds like a classic Brit aristo. But yeah, I think the WASP identity here was derivative of the British class system, but cast in “American” and Protestant terms. Most essentially they retained the need to maintain class status markers and the entitlements that follow from that. There was a time here in the 20th Cen. when class thinking was out of fashion, but it came back with a vengeance in the Reagan Reaction.
I think there came a point where there just were not enough of us any more. I think at some point the WASP aristos had to choose between their ethnic separatism/elitism and their money, and they chose the money. There are of course lots of people still running around who find all that “mixing” unacceptable.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 2 2020 14:28 utc | 136

James @ 128
The value of Lang is that he knows a lot about the inner workings of the intelligence community and of US government generally. And he talks about it. Of course he tries to control the discussion, he did that professionally his entire life. He is old and slips a lot. Lots of small reveals. Sy Hersh was long reputed to have amazing and impeccable sources in the military that handed him great stories. It was always Lang, Larry Johnson, Phil Giraldi. They did lunch at Sans Souci. And naturally the three of them played Hersh, and he played the game and got scoops. Hersh is now totally persona non grata and won’t be published again. The three informants are now talking to any who would listen, they do it online. And they play us. Always, automatically, reflexively. And there is still value there. If you take too much of their routine at face value you will be misled.
Lang is cunning and has had an interesting life. He was probably one of the best our domestic IC ever had. He is also stupid. He has published reading lists where he still promotes Will and Ariel Durant’s History of Civilization. Mostly the used book stores pitch those when they come in. They are found in estate lots from deceased well above 90. No one but Lang has read that tripe in sixty years. He still vouches for the laughable Bernard Lewis. You may read Edward Said on Lewis if interested. And as above this is still the best this country has had.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 2 2020 15:52 utc | 137

Another thought following up on 139. In a better world dinosaurs as Lang, Johnson, Giraldi would be irrelevant. Their memories or their memoirs could hold some interest, they would not be players at all if our polity were not so broken. Same thing can be said about dinosaurs named Trump, Clinton, Biden, Pelosi ad nauseam. Our system is broken, so what this gerontocracy is thinking or doing does matter.

Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 2 2020 16:01 utc | 138

@ enigma | Dec 2 2020 8:18 utc | 130… you get it! i don’t think b deals with anything like this.. the big difference is you do not see b coming into the comment section and getting all pissy, which is mostly all pat lang does.. pat lang lives in the comment section.. b doesn’t.. smart move on b’s part!
@ oldhippie | Dec 2 2020 15:52 utc | 139.. thanks…… i really agree with this quote from you – “He was probably one of the best our domestic IC ever had. He is also stupid.” most people can’t fathom this, although i personally appreciate the complexities of people and i really can relate to your words here..
and a quote from you @ 140 – “they would not be players at all if our polity were not so broken. ” this sounds fairly accurate as well.. i agree with your viewpoints here.. thanks for starting this conversation earlier on the thread! fwiw – i am now laying off on posting at pats site.. it ain’t worth it.. the guy is typical gemini scatterbrain..

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 18:19 utc | 139

James
OK one more on this old thread. About the pathetic caliber of intellectual life in this country. Bernard Lewis, mentioned above, was and perhaps remains (died 2018) America’s leading and most influential Arabist. Said’s takedown of Lewis is a literary epic. Just for starters this Arabist does not speak or read Arabic. Only a couple of very short visits ever to Arab countries, none after he became established.
So Said does it right, I have a personal reminiscence. It was 2003, Von Freeman received his honorary doctorate from Northwestern U and I was an invited guest to the dinner for the honorary class. Lewis got a degree as well. I was seated perhaps ten feet from him and our tables were at 90 degrees, seating on one side of table only, I had a good view. This was an old slob who used his necktie for a napkin, clearly the necktie that evening had seen much service. He was drinking much too much. To his right was a woman in her 80s, a distinguished microbiologist who also got the honorary. He was pawing her under the table. Twice some faculty member had to come over and ask him to behave. To the ladies right was Vonski. Von was a ladies man to say the least, he was entertaining a lady who wanted to be entertained. It was very plain Lewis’ problem was that the lady was preferring a black man over his disgusting but white person.
After dinner a couple of dignitaries gave mercifully brief little speeches and then Von picked up his sax and entertained. Willie Pickens played piano.Von told some jokes and did some banter to put his audience at ease. He played Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered for maybe ten minutes, very short for him. This audience had never heard anything like this, he played as out as he always did, but he had them in the palm of his hand. Lewis sat glumly with his hands clapped firmly over his ears.
As he neared the finish Von took the reed away from his mouth and softly sang the words “Young again, beguiled again. I feel like a child again”. Pretty much the whole audience broke down in tears. He had a huge ovation. When he walked back to his seat the lady stood and gave him a peck on the cheek. Lewis was ready to start a fight. Fortunately the faculty member was right there and so was an usher. And fortunately by then Lewis was too drunk to resist much.
This is the guy who has handed the mainstream their view of the Arab world. Total boor, total fraud, complete fool, he is the best academe has to offer. The experts’ expert on the Middle East.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Dec 2 2020 19:18 utc | 140

@ oldhippie… fascinating personal story! thanks! i hadn’t heard of this lewis fellow before… it is a great story you tell here and of course that is a beautiful song that von opted to play.. i have played it many times.. many of these songs i don’t know the words to, but my drum teacher always said it would be best if i knew the words.. i have a book called the real vocal book with this song in it.. i have played it on the piano and looked at the words which are also on the paper…
thanks for sharing! it puts the image of pat into a wider perspective and of these other characters including yourself too!

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2020 19:33 utc | 141

Banks and brokerages can dream of moving their operations to the continent to front potential, though as yet not clear, problems brought about by Brexit.
They will soon find out however, that regulation, fiscal and labour laws on the continent, are not conducive to running their business as they would like to.
Similarly, for customers on the continent the need to find a safe heaven for their wealth will redouble.

Posted by: guidoamm | Dec 6 2020 6:57 utc | 142