Brexit Promoters Lament Predictable Brexit Results
It is only one month until the United Kingdom of Britain leaves the European Union. There is still no deal about the future relations between the two entities and the time is running out. But even if a deal about the economic issues is finalized and signed there will still be many changes and inconveniences.
One argument with which the British government promoted Brexit was the "end of free movement". Most people who voted for Brexit probably thought that this would mean the closing of a one-way street that only affects migrants to Britain from lower tier countries. Now they are waking up to the fact that Brexit is closing down a two way road.
Furious British expats blast EU's new post-Brexit travel rules which will ban them from spending more than three months at a time at their holiday home from January
- Travel rules will change after end of the post-Brexit 'standstill' transition period
- After January 1 UK tourists visiting EU countries will be restricted to 90 day stays
- The rules have prompted a backlash from Britons who own holiday home in EU
These are not 'new' EU rules. Starting January 1 Britons will be allowed on vacation in the EU for a maximum of 90 days in every six month period. These are the long existing rules for non-EU citizens if their country has no agreement for bilateral free movement with the EU.
The Daily Mail, which now laments the issue, campaigned for years for the UK to become one of those countries. It is now outraged about the consequences.
There will be more such 'surprises' which Brexit promoters will lament about even when these were utterly predictable.
Now, as Brexit becomes reality, people are finally waking up to the myriad of problems it will create for UK car maker, farmers, logistics and everyone:
On Jan. 1, the free movement of goods across the English Channel is due to end for the first time in half a century. The change has sparked fears of severe bottlenecks at British ports and highways, where customs officers will inspect trucks amid an acute lack of staff that could rattle supply chains.Some 10,000 trucks cross the channel on ferries each day, moving about half of all goods between the U.K. and the continent while dozens of daily sailings move freight mainly between Dover on the British side and the French ports of Calais and Dunkirk.
“The problem is that you have to stop things,” said Richard Ballantyne, chief executive of the British Ports Association, a trade body. “Both the driver and the cargo will require documentation and if you queue up, you would immediately face congestion and delays.”
Large parts of the businesses that define London as a global financial center are moving to the EU:
The London Stock Exchange's pan-European share trading platform, Turquoise, opened for trading on Monday, a spokeswoman for the exchange said, joining two rival operators.The Amsterdam-based hub was set up to avoid disruption to the LSE's EU customers, who face having to trade euro-denominated shares inside the bloc from January because Britain's full access to the EU ends on Dec. 31.
Two other London-based share trading platforms, Cboe and Aquis Exchange, have opened so-called Brexit hubs in the EU to trade shares denominated in euros.
Goldman Sachs is also opening a platform in time for January.
...
While opening alternative trading platforms in the EU won't lead to many jobs leaving London, other trading-related activities, such as clearing and settlement, are also likely to move over time.Many international banks in London have opened Brexit hubs in the EU and are under pressure from regulators to undertake activities such as stock, bond and derivatives transactions for EU clients from inside the bloc rather than in London.
Those are quite a number of high paying jobs and a lot of tax revenues that Britain will be missing:
[Consultancy] EY said in a report last month that the 7,500 roles and 1.2 trillion pounds ($1.6 trillion) in assets that have moved already may just be the beginning. It expects further shifts in personnel and assets once the U.K.’s transition period officially ends.That bodes ill for the U.K., where finance employs more than one million people, makes up about 7% of the economy and accounts for more than a 10th of all tax revenue. Despite that, the industry has garnered little of the attention bestowed on fishing, which makes up just 0.1% of the U.K. economy, in the protracted Brexit negotiations.
The level of access between the markets of Britain and the EU is still not defined. The negotiations are still ongoing but hang on fishing rights, a level playing field to prevent unfair competition and the governance of the deal.
While the EU wants a deal no one is sure if Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson really wants to achieve one. He may be just play for time to achieve a hard Brexit without any EU agreement.
But even if a last minute deal gets done there will still be many changes and disruptions. Without a deal those will be tremendous and may damage Britain beyond repair.
Posted by b on November 30, 2020 at 16:19 UTC | Permalink
next page »I wouldn't worry, " the city of London " will not lose its status as the financial hub of the world. Lord Rothschild will make sure of that. As for the other issues, cry me a river Britons a nation's borders have meaning after all, your Holiday homes will have to accommodate.
Posted by: Anony | Nov 30 2020 16:42 utc | 2
While some finance jobs may be leaving the UK, for the elite of finance, keeping the City of London corp from the prying eyes of those in Brussels was always the intention and that requirement is being met.....so everything else is just collateral damage.
And having all those derivatives scattered hither and yawn is part of the plan I suspect. If those derivatives hold Superior Position over other financial assets in other countries like has been done in the US then putting all of the assets of the West at risk of these derivatives will be interesting to watch unfold when the music stops....and it will, quite soon I believe....just need to get all those ducks in a row....
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 30 2020 16:51 utc | 3
Note that nobody in Britain seems to complain about the re-introduction of tariffs according to the level permitted
by the WTO should negotiations fail. All the important issues are things that fall in the category of Non-tariff barriers of trade (travel restrictions, bureaucracy etc.).
Posted by: m | Nov 30 2020 16:54 utc | 4
Old habits die hard?
Considering the number of countries the British Empire screwed up to make them easier to loot, it's ironic that they've finally decided to do the same thing to Britain itself.
One wonders if they'll use the same pious bullshit to justify it?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 30 2020 16:54 utc | 5
The 'myriad of problems' that Brexit will cause is a small price to pay for Briton to escape the clutches of the Neo-fascists that are running the EU. It is very small in comparison to the price that our grand-fathers, great grand-fathers and great-great grandfathers paid to escape the clutches of the ancestors of these same Neo-fascists less than a century ago.
Back-tracking on Brexit now would turn Briton into the equivalent of Vichy France, forever a castrated colony of the EU.
Posted by: dh-mtl | Nov 30 2020 17:14 utc | 6
To be fair, the people who didn't like free movement of immigrants competing for lower tier work are most likely not the ones complaining about restricted access to their European holiday homes, and it's fairly disingenuous to try to frame the issue that way.
Posted by: tspoon | Nov 30 2020 17:26 utc | 7
Brexit fascinates me, as it is a laboratory regarding what occurs when a political entity chooses to divorce itself from a dominate state. As a response to what people perceive to be a dictatorial/corrupt agenda by a dominant state people seem to either push for a changing the state, overthrowing it, or seceding from it.
In the US we are taxed over 55% of the discretionary spending for support of the Department of Defense Industries. As people grow poorer due the Empire's decline, and increased wealth inequity, more and more people are becoming aware of this fact and wondering exactly who is the beneficiary of this wealth transfer. Some Libertarians talk of succession, and some of the left talks of "revolution". IMHO in order for changes to take place, the sanctioned national sources of information must be disregarded,the cost/benefit of continuing relations to the state must be apparent enough for people to be willing to weather the transition, and people must be united on an action. While the US populace is currently too brainwashed and divided, it appears, at least to me, that the UK is approaching that point. Brits must currently be weighing out if they benefit enough from the taxes lost, vs possible benefits received by not being tied to such a bureaucracy, but as the adage goes, will the new boss be the same as the old boss?
Posted by: Michael | Nov 30 2020 17:29 utc | 8
A lot of this is scare talk BS. In fact there will be abundant work-arounds and Brits owning 2nd homes in Spain will have easy to obtain visa extensions. In the end Britain and the Brits will be no more disaccommodated by Brexit than Americans are from not being part of the EU.
Posted by: erik | Nov 30 2020 17:32 utc | 9
The brexiters unfurling the flag, that is fine, but something else will come to an end with Brexit, health care tourism. Our regional hospital in Southern Spain was always full with english patients, they not only demanded free health care but translators also since the lords of the galaxy do not have to learn any other language but the whiteman's.
Something else that will come to an end, the stomach ache scam, yes, we have our gizzards so accustomed to hormones and chemicals in food that we want a free holiday. Never saw Russian tourists with a calculator in their hand when the bill came, the Brits: calculations ‘till the last penny. Ciao bambini, you won’t be missed.
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2018/10/31/inenglish/1541000032_097733.html
Posted by: Paco | Nov 30 2020 17:40 utc | 10
Posted by: Paco | Nov 30 2020 17:40 utc | 10
Sorry Circe, forgot about the tag, I'll try not to in the future.
Posted by: Paco | Nov 30 2020 17:41 utc | 11
Why did people really vote for Brexit?
The key thing is that over 30 odd years real GDP doubled while real GDP per head rose by around 10%. The 25% did very very well, the 75% went nowhere.
So 1. No Brexit voter one cares about GDP - GDP growth only benefits a minority.
2. Any talk that helps describe why the rich world has become so unequal will win votes. Immigration is just one small part of that, but easily identified. So job mobility remains a target of Brexit voters.
3. Brexit voters know full well that trickle down theories do not work. We can lose all the £100k+, £200k+, £500k+ jobs and it won't matter to most of us.
One thing for certain, it wasn't people that spend >3 months a year in their French 2nd home that voted for Brexit. Or Goldman Sachs partners.
Posted by: Michael Droy | Nov 30 2020 17:45 utc | 12
@ paco... the url is fine.. ignore the circe jerk..
thanks b... it seems to me this whole free trade or not concoction is used as a fear tactic... generally when fear is being rattled in front of peoples faces, some one has a deeper agenda and game plan... take a look at how the uk was screwed out of voting for corbyn as one example of this... they got the ever so dignified boris instead, lolol..
me - i am all for protectionist and national policies... all these globalist game plans serve the corporations and screw the little people... people need to grow their own and get back to a 100 mile diet and getting less caught up in this made race among countries for who is the best whore to serve the corps... that is what i see most of this free trade, or non brexit crap as about...
Posted by: james | Nov 30 2020 17:51 utc | 13
A bit OT I know, but can anyone tell me which side Starmer is on? Last I heard he wasn't with the Conservatives but...... he doesn't seem to think much of the workers of the Labour Party, and therefore becomes "remain" by default?
The other OT part is that the EU has it's own problems with members, and Brexit may well show the way for others to leave. (Hungary, Poland spring to mind). A clean break without an agreement should leave the UK in the position it was before Brexit. eg. The Fishing rights are part of it's sovereign rights and are not subject to a 15% quota "generously donated" by Brussels.
Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 30 2020 18:08 utc | 14
Hoarsewhisperer @5--
Well prior to Union and the Age of Colonialism, Elite Britons were doing an excellent job of expropriating their poorest fellows to generate the Capital further adventures would require, Enclosure being the primary vehicle used along with the coercive power of the State. Wikipedia does an excellent job of whitewashing the genocide of enclosure. Diggers and Levelers were the names given to the multitudes that opposed the process but didn't have enough power to overthrow the Crown. Corbyn was viscously attacked because he represented the longstanding aims of Commoners for a just and equitable society whereas back in Elizabeth I's day he'd have lost his head.
Stonebird @13--
Easy, Starmer's on the side of the Elite and against the Commonfolk who are the usual members of Labour. The EU exists to further entrench Neoliberal control.
Starmer was knighted for his work back in 2008 working 24/7 to prosecute the plebs for protesting the bailouts of banks. Labour Party is kapoot, totally irrelevant. There is no opposition to establishment anywhere on the planet.
Posted by: cadaver | Nov 30 2020 18:24 utc | 17
So, o Frauds here? Was Dominion used in EU? I do know it was used in Australia...so.
Posted by: Zico The Musketeer | Nov 30 2020 18:34 utc | 18
I doubt the British working class who voted for Brexit is mourning the loss of Spanish holiday homes or international banking jobs. Did I click on a Guardian article by accident? Things certainly are changing around here which is a shame.
Posted by: sad canuck | Nov 30 2020 19:03 utc | 19
I believe those in England who are most impacted will shift operations to Ireland. Good chance that divided Ireland will reunite.
Posted by: El Cid | Nov 30 2020 19:08 utc | 20
"...travel rules which will ban them from spending more than three months at a time at their holiday home from January"
What nonsense. All they need to do is get a residence permit. And if you have a vacation home in the country, that certainly shouldn't be a problem at all.
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 30 2020 19:12 utc | 21
Not been part of the EU will create no major problems but lots of inconveniences. The EU members countries will consider as traitors and their behavior will certainly change toward the Brits visiting.
Posted by: Virgile | Nov 30 2020 19:16 utc | 22
"Those are quite a number of high paying jobs and a lot of tax revenues that Britain will be missing"
Right. But what about the high paying jobs and tax revenues that Britain will be getting, as it's now likely to become an offshore banking center for EU's rich, similar to what Switzerland used to be?
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 30 2020 19:21 utc | 23
@ El Cid #18
I wonder this too. Perhaps the answer will include the consideration from Dublin's perspective, is uniting Ireland worth the cost of owning the problems, especially the religious bigotry, in the north of the island?
Posted by: Hal Duell | Nov 30 2020 19:26 utc | 24
OK - Here I write as one who grew up in the lower working classes (dad worked as Cowman [milked cows], as a bus conductor, as a butler, a gardener]) born in the late 1940s....
The EU is a corporate-capitalist-imperialist institution (Hey - why else would the Snatcher have signed up to it, albeit vocally reluctantly?) in which the European Parliament does NOT have say or sway: that all belongs to the totally UN-elected European Commission.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not in any way pro-Tory (Blue Face over there), nor Blairite (Red Face but not)...Brexit not at all sure about. But I know where the Northern working classes are coming from...after decades of Thatcher and Thatcherite austerity, joblessness, poverty.
My brother dwells in North Yorkshire (he used to be a tenant farmer) and now works ("self-employed" dontcha know) on a farm and at a stone yard...He has seen a small factory where he dwells go from employing local lads and lasses to ONLY employing East European men and women...For the small town where he lives and surrounding villages and hamlets this factory was an employment goody, paying the best wages around (well above agri ones, the few agri ones that there were)...
Now this factory has NOT employed locals for two to three decades...Rents and housing prices in the area (beautiful - moors, riggs and fells and nearby North Sea coast) have been rising since before the Snatcher but now are well, well beyond local folks earning capacity unless already entrenched in own house. (Decidedly NOT helped by the bloody bourgeois townie incomers buying houses...added to the loss of decent paying jobs to those from Eastern Europe...resentment grew...[and they don't speak the local dialect - a language - which disn't help].)
The middle classes (all levels) look down on such Northerners (especially) because - hey - they like being able to buy a house in Spain or Portugal or France and holiday/retire there...Their jobs aren't affected, indeed likely improved by being in the EU...
Not a lot has changed - the North of Britain (including northern England) and (effete) southern England (always southern middle classes/bourgeoisie sucking off the tit of the work of the northern Brits especially, but also south western ones) - has been in the same "relationship" with each "other" since - oohh, the 16thC for sure, definitely since the 18thC and the explosion of the Enclosures, the installation of the various textile mill/knitting frame "updates."...
E.P. Thompson, Christopher Hill...
Posted by: Anne | Nov 30 2020 19:54 utc | 25
Karlof1 - Yes - Starmer is Bliar is Thatcher with a Red Face (the colors over there being reversed)... While Corbyn was hardly Gramsci, he was so much, much more the person for the working classes and their needs and rights (though I doubt that he could have returned water, gas and electricity to public ownership)...
Posted by: Anne | Nov 30 2020 19:57 utc | 26
B I'm trying to understand why the rest of fucking Europe should have any rights to fishing in British waters???? If the Euros have overfished their own waters...tough titty... why should the British fishing communities have to (as they largely have) destroy their livelihoods (and I'm talking about the blokes who do the fishing) in order that the French, Spanish and whatnot can maintain theirs????
After all during the Cod Wars (back in the ancient 1970s) the Icelanders make blatantly clear that the Brits had zero rights to fish for cod in their waters. And rightly so (unfortunately, and dreadfully, this did not end the overfishing of cod)...
Posted by: Anne | Nov 30 2020 20:15 utc | 27
Posted by: Anne | Nov 30 2020 19:54 utc | 23 / 24
Hi Anne
Your posts generally make a lot of sense, but I hope you don't think Brexit will improve anything for anyone in the north of England. Brexit was conceived by the people behind people like Farage in order to make a killing on the money markets and to protect the City of London from EU regulation. Working people may have voted for this as a (justified) protest against austerity, but it won't benefit them in any way. Outside the EU, wages will be forced down by whatever means are available - maybe South Korean gang-masters instead of eastern EU ones, but down they will go. And there will be no recourse to (EU) law.
You are spot on about Starmer - just the smile on the face of capitalism in case the tories get voted out next time.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 30 2020 20:18 utc | 28
Ahh Brexit.
There was so many reasons for it (Anne @23 explains the working class situation well).
In no particular order.
1) A proper kicking for David Cameron.
2) The nostalgia of returning back to when Britain was great (impossible).
3) Disgust at what the EU had become. It's come a long way since the common market.
4) Imported cheap labour (There is nowhere for unskilled Brits to emigrate, and they'd struggle if there was).
5) City of London (touched upon elsewhere in the thread).
6) New opportunities for those in a position to milk said opportunity.
7) Nihilism.
8) A chance to hurt the middle classes.
There are probably more, but these have been the reoccurring ones I've noticed.
For the record, I went 1,4 and 8. Dave deserved it. Ran away crying the next day. I know he's laughing on account of being very rich, but the Eton toff never saw the kicking coming. 4 has been going on for years. It stinks. It creates bad tension towards people who aren't really the enemy. There's also the issue of surviving when you know you don't have a chance. 8 was best though.The middle class has used and abused those beneath them for centuries, from little things such as employing them as a cleaner for a pittance through to political exploitation. It was very therapeutic to be able to reach up and pinch their balls!
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 20:23 utc | 29
". Corbyn was viscously attacked because he represented the longstanding aims of Commoners for a just and equitable society"
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 30 2020 18:17 utc | 14
Do you really believe corbyn isnt a sheepdog for the sheeple dumb enough to belive T.I.N.A?
Do you belive burnie is a folksy socialist to?
Stop the T.I.N.A worshipping, most alternatives are better then a malthusian fascist regime i would say.
Even a tyrant is satisfied sometimes and let his flock rest in peace, the malthusian fascist billionaire club otoh know that they are our betters and will never rest before humanity is purged by 5-6billion, and the survivers will be a docile mulatto breed. Their words not mine! It is not hard to find if you dig around the web and their sites a bit.
(imo it seems like inbreeding is the norm/not taboo for this club, so i do not think the malthusian death cult have followed their reasoning all the way to its end... Not seeing the forrest bc of the trees kind of thingy.. )
Posted by: Per Sigurd | Nov 30 2020 20:30 utc | 30
@26 Mr O'Donnell -Thank you...No I'm sure that Brexit was as much a Bourgeois effort (likely - and here is paranoia, I imagine - some hidden agency skullduggery enabling the influx of chlorine soaked chicken, hormone/antibiotic drenched beef etc...nothing good, anyway) as the Beeb promoted (heavily) staying in...The ONLY folks who gain, whatsoever the direction taken in capitalist nations, are those who have clutch of the purse strings...
Posted by: Anne | Nov 30 2020 20:30 utc | 31
@19 Mao Cheng Ji
I know people in the Canary Islands that have lived there for decades without even bothering with all that, the government wants them there spending money into the economy so they won't kick them out and I'm sure the same goes for mainland Spain as well.
Posted by: TJ | Nov 30 2020 20:32 utc | 32
Its hared for me to see spending only 3months out of 6 months at one's 2nd home in Europe as a hardship worth getting worked up about. Can't b come up with some serious hardship from Brexit. not living in Britain I don't know what are certain to be some negative outcomes for Britain by Brexit.
Posted by: gepay | Nov 30 2020 20:33 utc | 33
tina - there is no alternative... i had to look it up... not everyone is familiar withall these abbreviations...
@ Per Sigurd | Nov 30 2020 20:30 utc | 28
i think you are full shite myself...
Posted by: james | Nov 30 2020 20:36 utc | 34
@28
Corbyn was not a sheepdog. The attacks still ongoing now, almost a year later prove this. The man took, and is still taking an extraordinary amount of shit. The problem I have is working out how much of it is to do with socialism and how much is due to his support of Palestine. (Shai Masot for example)
If Corbyn is guilty of anything, it's his turn the other cheek/let's work together attitude. If he'd had been as ruthless as Starmer, Watson and others, things would be different in the UK today
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 20:43 utc | 35
Anne @24--
Thanks for your reply and other comments. It's hard watching from afar and not knowing until recently about the Deep History related to the expropriation and exploitation of Englanders by other Englanders; but IMO it seems that the current repetition of past depredations began prior to Thatcher's rise, and the onset of Neoliberalism's current chapter could be described as another round of Enclosure since common assets were/are again being stripped away and privatized to bolster Elite's Capital Assets. Within the past century, resistance was made through Labour, but now that Labour is also siding with the enemy, what vehicles of resistance remain or are now arising? I guess the question that might best be asked: How many understand that this is yet another chapter in the ongoing Class War and solidarity required?
"Starting January 1 Britons will be allowed on vacation in the EU for a maximum of 90 days in every six month period."
To be blunt, this is a very sensible rule, one that should be globally applied between countries - and yes, this includes sending the EU "Freedom of movement" to the dustbin of history, which it should never have left.
For a starter, those few who can actually afford that kind of movement don't deserved any kind of favourable treatment, they're well off and don't need any help of any kind - unlike, say, the millions of people who can't afford any vacation in every 6 months, who deserve the State's attention and benevolent aid.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 30 2020 20:52 utc | 37
Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 20:43 utc | 33
Corbyn; In the "inquiry" that was published by Labour, about 50% of the accusations were made by ONE person on multiple occasions.
Corbyn had the secondary "failure" in certain eyes as being a threat to the oligarchic clique's plundering of the possessions of the many. He dared to want a bit of "equality" for the working class!
My question about Starmer, who has the all charisma of the back end of a London bus, is which side of the Brexit or Fixit divide does he sit?. (between you and me....A London bus is more useful and is a lot more tolerant as it will allow anyone on board)
(As Karlof1 mentioned earlier, Smarmer represents the snobs and the Blairite wing of the Labour Party. Personally I just refuse to call them "elite" as most people do)
---
Additional thought; If UK residents can only go for six months at a time to the EU, why not apply the same to "immigrants" in the UK unless nationality is granted?
Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 30 2020 21:38 utc | 38
Very kind and thoughtful Karlof1@34...
Oh yes - the first uprising of the Villeins - serfs - in England against their oppressive working-life conditions was the "Peasant's" Revolt led by Wat Tyler, and possibly Jack Straw, in 1381 post the Black Death pandemic in which c. one third of the population died...First uprising against their exploitation by the working people who maintained (unwillingly) the lifestyles of their overlords.. (the fact that it was the result of that pandemic, or rather that the results of that pandemic gave the workers, the serfs as they really were, the opening they needed to revolt against their exploitation raises the slightest of possibilities for what might evolve from this one)...
Reading Thompson (especially Customs in Common, The Black Act for insights into the pre-19thC period of oppression of the plebeians), and the Hammonds (Village Labourer), Hill, Linebaugh, Samuel....all really let one know that - at bottom, under capitalism (in conjuncture even more with imperialism) especially nothing really changes without tremendous effort and sacrifice by the poorer-poorest segments of society. And even then, if it does change for their betterment, those changes do not last.... There will always be some - among those on the bottom rungs as well as further up - who will see opportunities for exploitation of others.
Posted by: Anne | Nov 30 2020 21:39 utc | 39
" Corbyn was viciously attacked because he represented the longstanding aims of Commoners for a just and equitable society whereas back in Elizabeth I's day he'd have lost his head."
karlof1@14
He'd have lost his head in Elizabeth II's reign if the 'antisemitism' campaign had not got him. And that is a point that Per Sigurd@28 might want to think about- as the Embassy of Israel, Pompeo and the new leader of the Labour Party Starmer would attest, Corbyn, for all his faults (the faults of a gentleman) was absolutely real. That is why he is no longer a Labour MP- sheepdogs, Per, are not much use if you separate them from their flocks.
The reality is that Corbyn represented a real existential threat to the ruling class in the UK. And they knew it. Their hatred for him and the extraordinary lengths to which they went to destroy hgim politically leave that in no doubt.
As to Brexit- Anne is quite correct. As is karlofi.
The only novel thing about Brexit is that it is taking effect. Normally when the people-of France or the Netherlands or Ireland- vote overwhelmingly against the EU and its draconian neo-liberal rules, nothing changes. Either, as in France, the rules are changed and the vote ignored. Or, as in Ireland, the people are made to vote again and dissent is marginalised in the media.
The truth is that most of western Europe would do the same if they had the chance, because they know that there is no chance of reform within the EU which suffers from two massive problems.
First it is committed, in law, to neo-liberalism and socialist reforms (including nationalising industries) are literally not allowed. Pre EU nationalisations are 'grandfathered' but no new socialist measures are allowed.
Secondly, the EU is actually a US Imperialist project. So long as the UK is a member of the EU it is bound by policies which are in effect, cleared by Washington.
Brexit- self determination- plus a socialist government ready to break with US imperialism, exp-lore the many options of multi lateralism, work cooperatively with the many victims of Imperialism and rebuild the manufacturing capacity Thatcherism/Blairism sacrificed (along with the working class they hated and feared so much) as part of a free alliance of nations building a socialist future, these are perfectly viable policy alternatives.
More of the same, sliding rapidly into a security state fascism run by a ruling class that is about as patriotic as the Latin American scum who live in Miami and terrorise the lands that evicted them, won't work.
The time has come for the UK and Europe to change. And the first step needed is to break away from the EU, NATO and the other fetters imposed by imperialism.
Of course to understand this analysis you have to recognise that the first victims of the British Empire were the people of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England.
The Empire was built on their dispossession and peopled by the millions evicted from their own holdings, its army and navy were built on the poverty and unemployment of those who, in Chaucer's time, held and cultivated every acre of land. That Empire, now with its HQ located elsewhere, still exists- it is the historic task of the working class, which built the Empire under duress, to smash it up and burn it down. And to do so in alliance with the dispossessed of all lands- that is the globalism that will be.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 30 2020 21:41 utc | 40
I witnessed the birth of Brixit 3 years even before it was given the name. And I watched it develop and new where it had come from, why, and how evil it was.
It came from the very top elite, using the Tory’s and right wing media.
Labour had been in power along time. The toffs wanted to take back control.
For 3 years the media slowly ratcheted up xenophobia. Spreading fear and splitting the working class in two, Ditto the middle class.
Brixit was voted for out of pure nationalism. And race hate.
Artificially contrived by Rupert Murdoch and his cohorts.
‘Nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel ‘
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 30 2020 21:48 utc | 41
Anne @23
Thank you for a perspective on lived British culture that one rarely finds here across the pond. Your words give the British some depth beyond the caricature of snotty assholes that I normally work from. I suppose the working class British don't travel so much and thus most of those I've met in my travels have been insufferable middle class or upper class pricks. Perhaps that has unfairly colored my opinion, so I thank you for providing a perspective I can empathize with a little more.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 30 2020 21:53 utc | 42
@39 Mark2
So those who opposed the Maastricht treason are time travelers then?
Posted by: TJ | Nov 30 2020 21:59 utc | 43
@36 Stonebird
Brexit or fixit?
Difficult question. A year ago I would have answered fixit. But since Starmer became leader, remain enthusiasm has dried up. I genuinely haven't heard a peep about needing to overturn Brexit since his ascension. I think his most recent comments were back in February, when he blamed Labours loss on not pushing harder for remain.
I'd guess Starmer wants what the trilateral commission wants. But quite what that is, I have no idea.
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 22:03 utc | 44
@ 39 mark2 - i would say the opposite - ‘Globalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel ‘ but regardless, whether it is pitched as nationalism or globalism - we know for a fact that the wealthy and elite will sell it any way they can to convince the lowly plebs how something is bad so they can screw us any which way they want.. that much we do know...
Posted by: james | Nov 30 2020 22:14 utc | 45
TJ
The seeds of fascism are all ways there, in any community they just need nurturing. You think you think.
No ! Your told what to think by the sun or mail papers.
I won’t be replying to any one else here. So don’t bother trying to disrupt or derail my factual narrative !
Oh and don’t stay up. I’m in no rush.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 30 2020 22:17 utc | 46
@40 William Gruff
I'm sorry to hear of your experience of us Brits. May I just say that I've always found you americans to be genuine, highly cultured and often with a refreshingly idiosynchratic view of history and their place in it.
Posted by: Maff | Nov 30 2020 22:28 utc | 47
Posted by: TJ | Nov 30 2020 20:32 utc | 30
Well, yeah, but if you overstay, you might have to pay a fine at the border, when leaving.
Horrors, horrors...
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 30 2020 22:36 utc | 48
As part of the plan the Murdoch group found and gave a microphone /megaphone to a right wing self publicist by the name of Nigel Farage. A fascist from his public school days. His school teachers have commented on that and may well be searchable on the net.
He fitted their Oswald Mosley type game plan.
Until that 3 year period the working class didn’t give a damm about Europe or immigrants.
The short term gain was —- Cameron got in for the Tory’s.
The long term gain was to distroy the Labour Party just as they had distroyed the unions.
And devide old Labour by giving the now brainwashed right working class —- Nigel Farage.
Camaron only got in by promising a referendum on leaving the EU. That ploy was success for the overall elites plan.
Note the part played here by The gullible now programmed to be racist, half of the workingclass —-
They had voted in the Tory elite. Never to be removed. Also note —- the ironc, law of unentended consequences affecting the working class, benifiting the elite.
Remember Blair was the Tory’s man on the inside (new labour)
Now Starmer (sir) is.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 30 2020 23:03 utc | 49
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 30 2020 16:51 utc | 3
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 30 2020 19:21 utc | 21
I agree, somewhat. The Brits were always very special anyway, joined late and were never really enthusiastic about it.
As one of the Germans alluded to above: The European Center of Evil, I am not so sure we are heading towards a bright future. A lot of the points Britain complained about are no doubt relevant. What about the US/EU driven expansionism East towards Russian border? ...
Maybe a break will set free a lot of creative energy. We'll see.
Posted by: vig | Nov 30 2020 23:11 utc | 50
Anne @37 & bevin @38--
Thanks for your replies and further commentary!! It's easy to see my admiration for the Chinese and what they've constructed which shows that building a nation from the bottom->up that puts the interests of Commonfolk first is possible. It's also easy to see the disdain and hatred that accomplishment has drawn just because it was attempted much like the Russian Revolution. All revolts against Capital and Aristocratic Authority have met the same allied resistance, which has proven quite educational. Add scholars like Hudson & Graeber who are able to provide the very ling view of it all, and much begins to fall into place. Linebaugh and Rediker are correct to say the flows of resistance and revolutionary ideas followed the Gulf Stream from the Western Hemisphere to Europe where they landed and festered but only found victory much further East. Those behind Neoliberalism and the ongoing Class War it now leads were able to defeat the first attempt as Russia was never able to overcome the fantastic level of losses it suffered in WW2 and its own lack of a civilizational foundation to provide a better backbone for its society. China was luckier for numerous reasons, and although not ideal has at least defeated Neoliberalism and the poverty it thrives upon.
The Class War's been ongoing for centuries, so it won't end in a snap. But there's a glow of hope in East Asia with the ASEAN & APEC blocs coupling with China's BRI, for Globalization isn't just the realm for Capitalists. Marx saw Socialism as the complete democratization of the workplace, where all workers became owners that became the basis for the dissolution of Class boundaries. We all see how genuine democracy is stifled yet rhetorically praised to heaven. It should be clear by now that genuine democracy begins in the workplace and local townhalls then gets transferred to the national stage, not the other way round. That's how Grassroots Populism works; it grows from the bottom->up.
Sow the wind; reap the whirlwind.
Brexit is about pure greed, selfish British exceptionalism and an incapacity to play nice in the sandbox and instead take ones toys, make a stinky poop and go home. Oh and there's racism involved, of course. That's all it is.
Ordinary working people were duped a la Trump kult style and will be the first to feel the pinch when prices rise.
The pandemic is hurting the U.K., but to pull a Brexit right before this? Well that's a whole lot of karma hitting the fan at once, and well-deserved.
They'll be cryin' Bexit buyers' remorse in their ale at the pub. Dumb move.
Posted by: Circe | Nov 30 2020 23:32 utc | 52
The Tory’s in.
We now had a new nationalist party, with a figurehead Farage, placed there by Murdoch ect. Between them coining and publecising the term ‘Brixt’ and Brixit Party you can now begin to see that far from being a working class ‘movement’ it is, was engineered /construted by the elite. Exploiting the publics fear of Europe and immigrants a fear they had deliberately created from nothing by using the media that they owened.
The Birth of Brixit. And it’s parentage.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 30 2020 23:37 utc | 53
Anne and Some Random Passerby,
Appreciate your comments in this thread. The theme of the British "middle class" has come up a few times now and I was wondering if you could help those of us from the United States understand how the middle class in Britain differs from the middle class in the United States, from whatever perspective you think is best. In the U.S. the middle class is what has been aspired to by the poor for as long as it has existed as a powerful voting bloc - dating back to The New Deal, really. There are different strata in the middle class: lower, middle and upper, defined by household income. The creation of the middle class was made possible by policies like TND and the American corporate/private finance/aristocratic "libertarian" right have been chipping away at them in a coordinated effort since as far back as the 1940s - with help from the corporate media and willing dupes in the populace who can be convinced that "government ALWAYS == bad" and to vote against their own interests. Regardless, I believe that the so-called middle class in the U.S.A. has for a while now been the majority, at least in terms of who actually votes (in part because the poor are often disenfranchised or disincentivized to vote).
But to the idea of, as Some Random Passerby put it, using Brexit to reach up and "pinch the balls" of the middle class, I am intrigued as to how it works over there - what qualifies as middle class and how big of a portion of the population is it (including historically)?
Here in Spain, where I've only been for about 4 years now, the situation (and not so distant historical context) is a bit different, but my personal metric for what qualifies as "middle class" is any person or household that can afford to buy and maintain a car, as strange as that might sound.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 30 2020 23:44 utc | 54
@47 mark2
3 years?!?! Cobblers! This year is the tenth anniversary of bigotgate. Resentment towards cheap imported labour has simmered for far longer than 36 months.
@50 Circe.
Buyers remorse? You have no idea. Why would any working class Brit who voted out have buyers remorse? For once, we got to choose our fate. Frying pan or fire. Neither is good, obviously. But for once, we got to jump instead of being thrown.
To you both.
It's easy to sneer that we were duped. However, it isn't so easy to dismiss experience.
For the record, I used the library to back up my initial conclusion that Brexit was the right choice. Not Murdoch. And I'll stick wasps up my arse before I vote tory
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 23:46 utc | 55
Anne and Some Random Passerby,
Just wrote a longer comment/question for you both and it was unceremoniously disappeared by MoA's filters. The short version was my personal explanation of what constitutes "middle class" in the USA (and also shallow version for here in Spain) and asking both of you if you could expound on what and who makes up the middle class in Britain. The reaching up and hitting them in the balls comment has me thinking it's a lot different than in the U.S.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 30 2020 23:47 utc | 56
As a follow-on to the comment that didn't disappear, in the USA working class can be synonymous with middle class. Is it not the same in the UK?
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 30 2020 23:49 utc | 57
Posted by: Maff | Nov 30 2020 22:28 utc | 45
I've interacted with many, many Brits in my own travels and my anecdotal experience has been a gamut. There have been a few boorish, loud families (once met a family from UK on vacation at Disney World in Orlando, FL) that strike me as not very different from certain American people - mostly unconcerned with finance, geopolitics, etc., more concerned with getting by. They were definitely not snooty or pompous, just not very shall we say "cultured." And while in South American and Europe the majority of Brits I encounter range from what Gruff described to very friendly, self-aware individuals and families, often expats (many here in Spain) who I was happy to share a beer or a meal with and chew the fat, so to speak. Interesting thing is that I've met far more "working class" Brits who travel abroad than I do Americans. I wonder if that's a function of relative income levels or just culture. FWIW, I don't think it's possible to group persons from any country into one large basket and it's always interesting to hear the perspective of someone from the "other side of the pond."
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 30 2020 23:56 utc | 58
@ 53 _K_C_
Quick answer (nearly midnight here, work beckons so I must sleep)
Middle class are managerial types, doctors, lawyers, police etc. Anyone who can freely use money to fix their problems. Some are higher up the chain than others. Almost all share the contempt you see and read about in the media towards poorer types (racists, bigots, uneducated etc).
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Nov 30 2020 23:59 utc | 59
So who is the odd one out ——-
Blair, Cameron, Farage. All tools of the elite !
When Cameron became priminster, Gordon Brown who had only been labour leader a short time stepped down, having failed.
Enter the scene —- Corbyn the odd won out. Name only added to the labour list of candidates as a leftist make weight.
The right wing branch of labour had moved to Farages Brixit Party. Corbyn now was voted to be the labour leader. He was the only one who they weren’t controlling ! Couldn’t control. Hence they used their media to demonise him.
Having successfully ‘owened’ the brainwashed Brixitiers minds using the same successfully racist propergander they did the same tactic against Corbyn.
He is/was the strongest most honest man you could imagine. Hence the threat to the elite.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 0:18 utc | 60
@ _K_C_ | Nov 30 2020 23:56 utc | 55... americans are not world travellers... you and gruff are probably exceptions... remember when you are told 24-7 that you live in the exceptional nation and just how lucky you are to live in this exceptional nation - why would anyone want to travel? lol.. of course it is also easier for brits to trip to spain and etc too..
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 0:22 utc | 61
@ Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 0:18 utc | 57... the way i heard it mark, there was a 5th column buried in the labour party with knives for corbyn... it seems a part of the labour party got hijacked... not sure where it is at now.. i follow craig murrays commentary on stuff like this which is usually quite informed.. maybe bevin will comment again..
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 0:24 utc | 62
- Once Britain "ruled the waves". Now Britain finds itself in a situation where the EU economy is (much) larger than the UK economy. In that regard the UK finds itself in a situation where the EU economy (with all its imperfections) has more weight than the UK economy.
- "End of free movement" ?? Boris (Blowjo) Johnson and his government are seriously considering allowing socalled "Skilled Workers" into the country. I fear "Skilled Workers" is a different word for "cheaper workers".
Posted by: willy2 | Dec 1 2020 0:32 utc | 63
_K_C_ @54--
English history will tell you why that is. I'll give it a brief go based on my understanding. Never quite rising to aristocracy was a thin tier of property holders who were never dispossessed by the expropriation of enclosure. Thus by the time of Marx, fully 85% by his reckoning were proletarians in some shape or form, which he presumed would be the same with other nations--his most vital mistake. The result was the thin middle class aligned itself with the aristocracy since the policies it made to favor it also aided them. Shakespeare is an excellent example of a member of the middle classes despite his existing prior to the Industrial Revolution. Many middlers participated in the various joint stock companies formed to exploit Colonialism, and their few shares still provided an excellent income at that time allowing them to purchase the uniform of the middle class. Note that Doyle's Holmes rented rooms, but was still a club member and wore the proper uniform. With Colonialism, the Empire grew as did the government and its agents in that endeavor which needed to be manned by a loyal civil service which was elevated into middle class status. Then there are the Merchants and their niche since they were often denied ascension to aristocracy. Was Scrooge a Tory? Most Certainly! Yet his life is portrayed as being rather mean.
The big difference with the USA is its poor didn't get expropriated via enclosure but were enriched by conquest and became property holders and thus middle class. Then there were the merchants who were the most rebellious of the rebels. What was it Gordon Wood wrote in his Radicalism of the American Revolution; it was a Middle Class Revolution, not one where the poor and property-less rose up against the property-holding Aristocrats. I recall one passage where a visiting Englander's cited as saying there's no way to differentiate between the classes because all were able to afford the uniform. The times differ but the attributes don't. My ancestors were Citrus Ranchers and Vineyard Owners from Southern California who were able to weather the Great Depression and Prohibition and whose initially free land became the basis for their wealth and class. Yes, they toiled hard and formed cooperatives with others for mutual aid--very socialistic. Their lands are now suburban tracts caused by a very different type of enclosure. I do hope you get a better explanation from someone living in England.
Anony #2
I wouldn't worry, " the city of London " will not lose its status as the financial hub of the world. Lord Rothschild will make sure of that.
That is too good. Allow me to pop your illusion balloon.
Lord Rothschild would be absolutely aware of the consequences of brexit and no doubt has a legion of financial risk and strategy managers that have fully gamed this scenario. Why should he care for the consequences in the UK? If brexit had not suited Lord Rothschild and his thieving brigands it would never have happened. The press would have been silenced and every advocate accused of anti-semitism.
I will bet you a strong drink that the englanders will be smashed in this scam by global private finance and that the good Lord will be elsewhere when the crap hits the fan. Meanwhile Queen Elisabeth II will go into the history books as the idiot Queen that allowed englanders to be robbed blind while she drove the royal coach down the road.
You might have noticed that the UK Labor Party problem is under safe control with lots of noise and banging and witch hunts etc., just in time for the heist. I hear there is plenty of development space in Haifa or Tel Aviv where the old 'City of London' functions can be relocated. Perhaps new land could be found nearby as well and who would complain?
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 1 2020 0:43 utc | 65
James you are right with all your points there.
Uncle tungsten bang on with all of that. I wasn’t going to name that family but you did. Thank you.
———
So the family that uncle tungsten names, with branches in both U.K. and US being a very close freand of Murdoch and business associate (look up genie oil)
Have very close ties with Israel putting mildly !
They were able to call in the full weight of the Israeli lobby groups to distroy Corbyn.
———-
I’m done for today.
But look for a very close comparison to the making and take down of trump.
“I’ll be back”
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 1:05 utc | 66
@61 karlof1 - and many others
I think the difference with class in the UK is that it's tangible, in the same way that I assume the caste system of India is tangible. The condescension of a higher class to a lower class is based on rank in society which is ultimately based on military control of the populace. And it's all done through accents and speech. English people are very attuned to the nuances of voice.
And all of this flows from the centuries that have preceded it. If you were of a higher class by voice and bearing, you were of a better education and you were possessed of better means, treated better by authorities, and expected to occupy a better stratum in the system. And if of a lower stratum, you were punished more severely, especially for breaking the invisible lines between strata.
In the US, that kind of class system doesn't seem to exist. Instead, it's all done through money - as you point out, karlof1, everyone can afford the uniform. Lewis Lapham wrote a nice book about this called Money and Class in America. In his wonderful capacity as a writer, Lapham illustrated how we in the US can move up and down in society's approval and validation, depending on the current stock of our money.
~~
And I have long loved the essay by Mary McCarthy called America the Beautiful, in which she illustrates how the American national culture is simply that of the dirt poor of Europe, with the hollowness writ large into a fullness, the convex made concave - the awful lack of "class" of the poor made into the dominant culture of the Americans - the culture devoid of culture.
In other words, if the poor suddenly could live in a world where they could afford things, they'd exhibit a crassness and an apparent materialism just like the Americans do - but really, she said, this just points out the emptiness of Europe and its class systems of the privileged against the unprivileged. And underneath it all, she pointed out, is actually a transcendence of that apparent materialism, a spirituality and a love of the ideal. I always loved her for that, but she wrote it in 1947, and I don't know if she'd say now that this still existed.
The essay is worth finding - in fact, here it is.
Class systems are terrible things. They block out the natural truth of the universe, which is the true culture of humanity.
Posted by: Grieved | Dec 1 2020 1:28 utc | 67
@38 bevin
You said:
"...you have to recognise that the first victims of the British Empire were the people of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England."The Empire was built on their dispossession and peopled by the millions evicted from their own holdings, its army and navy were built on the poverty and unemployment of those who, in Chaucer's time, held and cultivated every acre of land. That Empire, now with its HQ located elsewhere, still exists- it is the historic task of the working class, which built the Empire under duress, to smash it up and burn it down. And to do so in alliance with the dispossessed of all lands- that is the globalism that will be."
I love those words.
This war is the only war. Every other argument is only a feint.
Posted by: Grieved | Dec 1 2020 1:35 utc | 68
Corbyn was destroyed by extreme elements within his own party with assistance from the Israeli embassy and their bought and paid for media, who would prefer to sit in opposition rather than in a pro Palestine government. Much the same mindset as the DNC and their sabotage of Sanders. The ugly hundred year old zionist project of imposing themselves in a religiously inspired ghetto in Palestine is their number one issue.
I am surprised no one has commented that Brexit will hugely disadvantage UK workers once they have lost the protection of the EU labour laws. Then it will be a race to the bottom.
Posted by: Paul | Dec 1 2020 2:03 utc | 70
Posted by: Grieved | Dec 1 2020 1:28 utc | 64
I have seen it said somewhere(*) that one reason the British found it so easy to rule over India for so long was that they both already had rigid class systems, so they could just displace or suborn those at the top and take over. The UK/USA are still fond of that, perhaps a bit more refined in their methods.
And I want to second your rec for Lapham and "Money and Class in America". I want to add Ferd Lundberg's "The Rich and the Super-Rich" (1968) which was my introduction to the US' ruling class.
* - perhaps this: The Decline and Fall of the British Empire, 1781-1997
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 1 2020 2:05 utc | 71
@Some Random Passerby
Corbyn was not a sheepdog. The attacks still ongoing now, almost a year later prove this. The man took, and is still taking an extraordinary amount of shit. The problem I have is working out how much of it is to do with socialism and how much is due to his support of Palestine. (Shai Masot for example)
If Corbyn is guilty of anything, it's his turn the other cheek/let's work together attitude. If he'd had been as ruthless as Starmer, Watson and others, things would be different in the UK today
Impossible to say, but I suspect that the socialism put in any way seriously into action was far too dangerous for the corporate elite to take any slight risk of absorbing, and they are collaborators with the zionist loby and other interconnected groups within US/UK intelligence agencies. And the financial sector overseers were only too happy to channel the attacks on Corbyn via the 'anti-semitism' route which suited their right wing zionist pals and kept attention almost 100% away from the financial sector and top level of elite.
Plenty of the financial elite who own the state and propaganda machine or can certainly make use of it when they wish, were extremely hostile against the suggestion of Corbyn gaining any real power.
It's a crying shame, but of little surprise to find that at least there remains in the people back home a semblance of knowing right from wrong, but the overarching power remains the propaganda machine, the strength and breadth of which is staggering when seen as an interconnected system of foundations and think tanks and intelligence agencies and commissions and corporate elite owners in many industries. Anyone who seriously considers Russian or Chinese propaganda a serious problem for the world is already indoctrinated into the mega brain washing of our own system in the West...
Posted by: johan nagel | Dec 1 2020 2:20 utc | 72
Ah my favourite subject! Thanks b, for a MoA on the impending end of the track crash as the runaway brexit train (or bus ) goes over the cliff edge.
I have been clear that hard BrexShit was always plan A and the only plan.
Mainly to release the Ancient City from legally binding cooperation on a level playing field under the CJEU.
That City is not the 'retail financial' City that easily can trade in the EU by having their HQ's for European retail finance in any EU country.
Many opted for Dublin and made moves within weeks of the referendum. They will not miss a beat as the rest of us in the UK get screwed.
All else was just smoke and mirrors and running the clock down on A50.
So the desired outcome could be laid at the door of the evil EU and its Treaties.
The first clown negotiator Davis turning up with no papers or plans made it obvious.
The plan was to let the A50 2 year deadline run out and have the EU declare a disorderly exit as per A50!
Thats how to get that cake and eat it.”THEY forced it because of THEIR rules”
The associated plan was to further subvert the EU from the inside with multiple national variations of Ukip type Alt-Right groups – funded by the same peoples and coordinated by the same honchos – like Bannon. The Afd in Germany designed to unseat Merkel, hence displacing her from her senior position in the EU and replace her with Macron (who also was installed by massive manipulation).
That coup at least failed and she hung on and after 3 months formed her government. Which resulted in the sidelining of Macaloon and the paid Atlantists from other EU countries.
It culminated in her masterful huddle in the corridor with the EU representatives, as PM May sat in the room waiting receive her prize , that rules are rules and A50 has expired and a ‘hard BrexShit’ was all that was left. She could come back and say “its their fault and Labours for not agreeing to ‘her deal’! It was Starmers 'job' to help stop the fake 'deal' being approved as much as the 'breakaway' tory rebels and the hard BrexShit ERG group.
Just a pantomime played out to bamboozle the British public and voters. Only A Corbynite government would have delivered a 'soft' brexit.
Well Theresa got turned over by Angela and had to be tearfully substituted by Bozo under the guidance of Dominic Spaffings and the DS/MSM managed, fixed GE to not flinch and be bamboozled by the wise old mutti again.
Thats where we are.
The plan is Hard BrexShit. Followed by a hiving off of Singapore on Thames and letting the rest of the country rejoin. A city state long existing but with a new nation status - like the Vatican. Money is their religion after all. This is a long term plan coming to fruition. Canary Wharf , East India Docks and others developed as the extension of the Square Mile with a HUGE infrastructure investment since the 80's. The story goes back longer but I will leave it at that for the moment.
Mutti Merkel will not be having it – the EU is progressing towards maturity and will tie in with Russia and the Eurasian trading blocks to form the most sensible new ’empire’ that ever existed.
Finally free of the old Anglo Aryan Imperial superiority and exceptionalism demands, that has left the world polluted and species depleted.
Posted by: DG | Dec 1 2020 2:33 utc | 73
Grieved #64
Class systems are terrible things. They block out the natural truth of the universe, which is the true culture of humanity.
Nicely stated brother Grieved. I fully endorse that. The natural truth of the universe indeed excludes class and applauds egalitarian.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 1 2020 2:35 utc | 74
I see no reason to feel the slightest bit of sympathy for Brits. The only thing I am now interested in watching is their Balkanisation, but after the Scots threw away their golden opportunity in 2013, I am not optimistic about that.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 1 2020 2:47 utc | 75
@ DG | Dec 1 2020 2:33 utc | 70 with the cogent description of why there will be a hard Brexit
Thanks for that and the speculation about "the new Vatican". I like that. Yes, it is time to get the God of Mammon religion out of the closet.
If not now, when?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2020 2:57 utc | 76
@ Grieved | Dec 1 2020 1:28 utc | 64 who wrote about America being the culture devoid of culture.
I would define a culture devoid of culture as barbarism myself. I agree that it defines a certain segment of America quite clearly.
Reading the insightful words from Mary McCarthy about the concave becoming the convex made me think about the transition that the poor from China are going through and how those from Hong Kong think of the mainlanders as uncouth.......I keep going back to the monotheistic crazy strictness/myth that the West culture is imbued with and is also blind faith that keeps the elite global private finance folk in power.....so is that concave or convex culture?
And to take that further, all the monotheistic religions, including God of Mammon, are uni-polar types of myths, and as such, they don't play well in a multi-polar world......hence the civilization war we are in.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2020 3:23 utc | 77
Grieved @ 64, I found a different America than Mary McCarthy's, but I came much later than she is writing here. I thank you for the article - it has a New Yorker style to it, and I'd think, myself' a very upper class tone, but that's just me. I do like Steinbeck, have his 'The Winter of Our Discontent' and also read and appreciated "The Grapes of Wrath" -- I guess my strongest pull was to the folk music era in my college days (upper class too that would be considered, though easier for us plebs to get in back in the day.)
But as we're putting forward writings, my top choice would be Flannery O'Connor for her short story "Revelation". I've not been able to plumb the depths of Faulkner but he had a great one about a wild ride down the MIssissippi - I read that one aloud to my boys in their younger days.
I have to say as a kiwi somewhat out of sync with all the British history we were supposed to absorb in school in those days, I found the US when I came in the 50s a place I felt at home,and have ever since, even after trips back down under. I can't explain it - down there I was different; here I fit in.
Posted by: juliania | Dec 1 2020 4:00 utc | 78
@ DG | Dec 1 2020 2:33 utc | 70..good post! i like your optimism and conclusion at the end! yeah - the city doing a singapore move - singapore on the thames, lol - makes sense... keep the focus on money and screw the peasants who they don't want anything to do with anyway.. i am not sure mutti merkel will be around.. i always thought she was into this usa-uk world domination thing anyway... all the bullshit about the skripals, navalny and etc. - she has seemingly swallowed all that and more..
Posted by: james | Dec 1 2020 4:25 utc | 79
@49
... as Russia was never able to overcome the fantastic level of losses it suffered in WW2 and its ow ... ‡
Posted by: Laurence | Dec 1 2020 4:34 utc | 80
I'm beginning to think the BREXEIT is yet another circus performance created by the elite to keep us occupied and amused while they are working on implementing their reset agenda right in the open. I stopped paying attention to it last year during the summer. There are many more important things occurring right now than that circus show.
Posted by: Hoyeru | Dec 1 2020 5:50 utc | 81
@72 Biswapriya Purkayast
Scotland was cheated. There was no way she was getting out.
Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Dec 1 2020 6:44 utc | 82
@58 james
War is Gods way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce
Posted by: TJ | Dec 1 2020 7:34 utc | 83
So Camaron became prime minister, Corbyn an increasing thorn in the Tory’s side largest political party within Europe. And Right wing Farage building a massive nationalistic following. Britain began to disintegrate politically, add to that the Scottish independent party. Controlled by media false perception it still stacked up to an overwhelming swing to right wing nationalism.
It came from Cameron’s promise of a referrendom he delivered on that promise. U.K. voted out. Farage stepped down from the Brixit Party, within one week. Murdoch throwing him a large lavish garden party as a thank you. He was the elites man (stooge) now not needed. Cameron obveously won the next election for the elite. But stepping down soon after. Having done his part of the elites Job he cut and ran before the Brexit hit the fan. Passing the Brexit sorry mess on to Teresa may.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 8:53 utc | 84
Anyone else notice the new and improved Mark2?
Apparently the persona can speak in many voices. The barflies just shrug. The conversation here is being guided.
Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 9:47 utc | 85
Englanders will be smashed in this Bexit scam by global private finance with political icons transforming the governed into blind robbed victims ... there is plenty of development space in Haifa or Tel Aviv where the old 'City of London' functions can be relocated. Perhaps new land could be found nearby as well and who would complain? by: uncle tungsten @ 65..
YES but please remember there is more than location and private real estate property at stake..
globalization has transformed the balance sheet from physical assets 86% in 1955 to intangible assets 90% in in 2020.<=== A transformation required by globalization.. one cannot move the factory from the safe and secure England to cheap labor outer Mongolia China without a patent on the production process and a copyright on the How to Run it Manual and a copyright on the software that monitors it all and a reliable, powerful military force to ensure the foreign owners security while raping the villagers in the foreign land and, at the same time, allowing the fat cat <=in safe haven England,<=to keep not only the profits and bonuses that the foreign place produced for the fat cat but also to avoid paying any taxes to England.
Global-ism required that rule of law be unitialized throughout the world so that production processes, businesses and commercial enterprises could be safe to the interest of the business owner, coordinated <=by and thru copyright and patent law and treaty.
Bexit was essential to globalization because the EU controls the copyright and patent dependant establishments within the union, but not globally.
Posted by: snake | Dec 1 2020 9:52 utc | 86
Brexit is a shit show. Mainly because the ways in which it was sold to the public were disingenuous. Leaving the EU is fine with me, as long as you have a fair understanding of the flaws and benefits of EU membership, but more importantly you have a clear reason to leave.
The UK has not elucidated a clear vision of what it will get from being free of the EU. Only sound bites like "Sovereignty". Does that even count as a sound bite? So why do some politicians want to create a clean break Brexit? Is it just to please voters? Though why were the voters sold the idea of Brexit in the first place? The UK were fine with the EU ten years ago and it only become a real issue with Farage and some in the Conservative party began pushing it.
I can only guess the reason for Brexit is to become more like the US. Remove regulations which protect the average citizen so large corporations and finance can make bigger profits at the expense of the environment and our health. Considering the disparity of what the electorate expect from Brexit and the eventual outcome, UK voters will become even more disengaged from politics and looking for someone to stand up for them.
I think the biggest irony is that Brexit sentiment often comes back to immigration, even if supporters try to pretend otherwise. They expect Brexit will stem the "flood of immigrants" and suddenly everything will be better. Traffic, house prices, queues at the doctors, the social security bill, etc. will be fixed*. Yet if you look at what the Government have actually done it has made it harder for EU workers, because what could be easier than free movement? But it has made it easier for the rest of the World to come to the UK. As migration from the EU were typically the best educated and made up less than 50%, Brexit is unlikely to stem migration very much, if at all.
Why would anyone expect the government to reduce immigration anyway? They had the ability to do something about the 50% which was not from the EU before, but did nothing. They love cheap labour.
* Immigration is not the main cause of any of these problems but the media do a very poor job of educating people on the true causes. Like low interest rates and easy credit for the house market boom. Traffic is a problem everywhere because cars do not scale to the size of cities.
Posted by: Mighty Drunken | Dec 1 2020 9:57 utc | 87
Paco 10.
"Our regional hospital in Southern Spain was always full with english patients, they not only demanded free health care but translators also since the lords of the galaxy do not have to learn any other language but the whiteman's."
Paco, regarding your complaint about Brit patients "demanding free health care".....you are talking ignorant rubbish, which I concede is shared by many equally uninformed Spanish. 1. Any Brit tourist or short term visitor in Spain is covered by the EU EHIC card which is issued by every EU country to its citizens. The Spanish hospital takes the number of the card and bills the UK, so the Spanish pay nothing towards the cost.
2. As regards pensioners living in Spain full time...any Brit pensioner living in Spain has his entire medical costs covered by the EU S1 system whereby Spain is paid in full by UK for the medical costs of every pensioner Brit.. This, btw, is a nice little earner for Spain as Spain is paid on the basis of number of Brit pensioners living in Spain...not on actual treatment provided.
I farm in Spain, and it is a constant, daily source of bewilderment that such a pleasant, friendly but essentially thick & backward people (I don't say uneducated) have managed to assemble such a fantastic country full of magnificent architecture, art, cuisine, etc. (But it's much the same for all the PIGS countries). It is not UK's fault that PIGS are not only broke, but can't provide employment for their youth, which means so many Spanish youth do menial work, such as cleaning toilets or waiting tables in UK. Spain has never contributed a penny to the EU budget but has been a freeloader from the day of its accession....which has been largely funded by the taxes of the Brits you despise. As I write this, Spain is begging...nay, demanding...other EU countries, ie the Germans, to give Spain extra billions because of Covid. If I was a Spaniard I would hang my head in shame.
Posted by: Guy Thornton | Dec 1 2020 9:57 utc | 88
If you want England to profit from Bexit, it is only necessary to eliminate (as in cancel) all copyright, patent and other intangible property [that is, virtual things made into private property by rule of law], and it will be less than a few months before those industries operating in foreign lands will return to England. and pay their fair share of taxes.
Posted by: snake | Dec 1 2020 10:01 utc | 89
Teresa May now prime minister. She was the elites stool pigeon, confronted with political chaos in the U.K. having to deal with an increasingly hostile Europe. Basicly everyone’s punch bag. Whilst the elite assist stripped the nation like a firm of buseness liquidedators.
Through Teresa May they sold the Police stations. Library’s, local govenment buildings. You name it they sold it to one another.
Meenwhile the now openly racist Brixit thugs were to busy hating people less fortunate than them selves to even consider hating their evil masters. They couldn’t see the ‘strings’
Capatilists are greedy, it’s not even about the money, they have that already. It’s about the power the control, it’s an addiction.
The poorer we are the more powerful they are. Fascism is just another tool to that end.
Teresa May won an election on a vastly reduced majority, the only other choice being Corbyn, who was subjected to the afore mentioned character assassination.
With ever increasing toxicity of Brixit she to jumped ship passing the Ball to Boris Johnson as prime minister.
Cameron, Farage, May all had gone.
Corbyn still stood out lasting them all.
Attacked by the elite through their media, attacked by the full force of the Israel lobby groups. Yet still he stood strong and proud ‘a lefty’
A nice man sat firmly on the fence over Brexit to keep the Labour Party together.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 10:30 utc | 90
Reviewing Mark2 version 2.0 and his contribution to this thread. His perspective is not that of a native. Reads like what a very junior area expert at Langley would come up with.
Which gives this persona way too much credit. Just someone posting from anywhere who gets the occasional memo from the junior area expert. And it is still a useful contribution. If you want to know what the desk officers are thinking, what the desk officers consider as they move the pieces about the chessboard, Mark2 just spread it out for you.
Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 11:02 utc | 91
oldhippie @85
Yes, there are a few such "guides" here other than the obvious Brock-bots like king donkey rear .org, who seems to be back again despite the elections in the US supposedly being over.
As you suggest @92 (soon to be 91 because the posts will renumber) the posts by these rather clumsy discourse shepherds do provide insight into the inner workings of the committees tasked by the elites with spinning the daily narratives. I generally only occasionally poke them in the discussion threads to remind them they are being watched and that some of us are not fooled, and also to raise warning flags for the silent lurkers.
Some argue concerning referencing articles in the New York Langley Times or the Washington Bezos Post "Why do you refer to their articles when they always lie?!?!". The precise same argument can be made about the "influencers" paid to infiltrate legit discussions on the Internet. In fact, knowing that a discourse participant is deliberately "shading the truth", spinning an artificial narrative, or outright lying, and furthermore knowing that they are representing the interests of the empire, can give one almost ESP-like insight into the thoughts of the elites (not pretty, but useful). Achieving this insight is not so simple as just inverting what the narrative spinners say, but it is not a whole lot more difficult than that.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 11:50 utc | 92
Meanwhile, UK's economy continues to flounder:
Sir Philip Green's Arcadia Group collapses into administration
Debenhams set to close all stores with possible loss of 12,000 jobs
--//--
@ Posted by: Guy Thornton | Dec 1 2020 9:57 utc | 88
Cost of living in Spain is much lower than in the UK. With an USD 36,000 annual income, you're solid middle class in Spain (maybe even touching the upper middle class territory), while essentially a vagrant in the UK (specially in London - where you're forced to live because that's where the jobs are).
That's the only reason British pensioners live in Spain - not free healthcare (which is superior in the UK either way). You receive British wage (pension) but enjoy a Spanish cost of living - the best of the two worlds (plus the warmer climate, which extends the life expectancy of old people).
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 1 2020 11:50 utc | 93
I figure they are AI bots and we are being used to train them. This opens up some possibilities, if you think about it.
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 1 2020 12:27 utc | 94
@karlof1 #36:
Within the past century, resistance was made through Labour, but now that Labour is also siding with the enemy, what vehicles of resistance remain or are now arising?
Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist–Leninist)
Posted by: S | Dec 1 2020 12:29 utc | 95
Gruff @ 93
Well thank you.
I am reminded of a very old one. Has to be recounted from memory, this was way back in the 1970s and I would have read it in hard copy. Didn’t keep a clippings file. A Florida judge threw out a case against the Florida chapter of Vietnam Veterans Against War. Judge said he had been approached by literally hundreds of parties asking that one witness or another, one fact or another, be kept confidential. Judge had never even heard of some of the supposed governmental agencies making these requests. Had no way of verifying all these IC actors were real. Judge had come to conclusion that majority of members in Florida VVAW were there as agents. So a complete dismissal.
This corner of social media seems more and more like that. Of course we are all monitored at some level. It does seem more and more like a playpen where agents talk to each other. The other persona I’ve been watching is the ever ingratiating james. He posts over at the turcopoliers house and says things that would get anyone else banned instantly. Banned before first post appeared. Lang is of course ex-DIA. A colleague could have asked him to tolerate an intrusion. Don’t believe for a moment he colonel decided to be tolerant inside his own shop.
Problem with all this is that if you think about it too much there is nothing to do but retreat. Which works just as well for those who control us.
Posted by: oldhippie | Dec 1 2020 12:29 utc | 96
Shortly before Boris Johnson became prime minister with a remit of steering Britain through Brixit he transferred a large part of his personal wealth to Southern Ireland not part of the U.K. intending to stay in the E U. An off-shore tax haven ! Think about that.
Whilst haveing been ousted by the Israel backed faction of the Labour Party, Corbyn was replaced by its present leader —- Sir Keir Starmer. He has family connections to Israel.
Tory lite. So you can see the elite now control both main party’s in the U.K.
The Brixit Party got neatly put back in its box, by the powers that be. To be forgotten about. Leaving a major power shift to the Tory’s, The elite and Israel in control.
Who dares gainsay them ? Same as in the US.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 12:52 utc | 97
Posted by: vk | Dec 1 2020 12:03 utc | 94
I would not be so sure about health care in Britain and Spain, the waiting lists in Britain are longer and I know personally british citizens that were treated here, for free of course just like anybody else, a friend got treated for cancer, true he moved and bought a house here. There are plenty known cases of plain tourists that came to be treated.
Posted by: Paco | Dec 1 2020 13:24 utc | 98
. So you can see the elite now control both main party’s in the U.K. The Brixit Party got neatly put back in its box, by the powers that be. To be forgotten about. Leaving a major power shift to the Tory’s, The elite and Israel in control. Who dares gainsay them ? Same as in the US.
Sorry, but I must correct you. It's not the elite and Israel in control--it's Zionism in control, because that's what Zionism really is. Zionism isn't just limited to the occupation of Palestine, and the media is Gatekeeper.
Corbyn was an emergent threat to Zionism, i.e. full control of both parties, so he was swiftly banished with the gatekeeping media's help.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 1 2020 13:29 utc | 99
Circe you are right of course.
I do tend to abreviate the whole Zionist issue by useing the term Israel. It’s a very complex ‘other debate’ you will know much more of that than me.
I’l just add that we can not generalis ther are a huge amount of the Jewish community who are good people. Some less so. Bit like the rest of us really.
Thanks.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 1 2020 13:45 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
What will happen to Scotland?
There is rumore that they will try again for independence referendum .
Posted by: Arata | Nov 30 2020 16:40 utc | 1