Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 03, 2020

A Weird Election Where The Aftermath May Be More Important Than The Result

Every four years the United States has "the most important election ever" though none of those I remember have really changed anything fundamental.

Today's election is different because the Democrats have threatened to attempt a color-revolution should their candidate not win:

It seems clear that the Democrats will contest the election unless Joe Biden wins an electoral college majority. If Trump wins they will draw out any concession until the last mail in vote is counted and litigated through the last level of jurisdiction. They hope that the accompanying media attention, social media marketing and street action will wear down the support for Donald Trump.

Throughout the last months the required tactics have been tested with Soros funded Black Live Matters protests and anarchist riots in Portland and other cites.

This is, as far as I know, the first election day on which businesses have boarded up their shops because they fear that the election night will be followed by rampages and looting:

Business districts and office buildings in several U.S. cities are boarding up their doors and windows for fear of Election Day unrest and in the days that follow.

The sound of sawing, drilling and nailing filled several blocks around the White House and in New York City, including its iconic Macy's flagship department store.

Police said Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills will be closed down completely on Tuesday, following a large pro-Trump demonstration in the shopping district over the weekend.

Federal authorities planned to extend the perimeter fencing around the White House by several blocks, encompassing the same area fenced out during this summer's protests against racism and police brutality.

Why all this fuss? The difference between the two major parties is slim. Whoever wins will be constrained in his policies to fit the general imperial trends the U.S. follows.

It is funny though how little we know about the most likely outcome. The polls have been more often wrong than right and now show a tight race in those places that are really important. The final result may depend on a few hundred mail-in ballots in some county in Pennsylvania. Or there could also be a landslide in either direction.

My personal hunch is that Trump, who is much less exceptional than the media portrait him, will gain sufficient electoral college votes to stay in office.

If the Democrats react to that as they have planned it is quite possible that the aftermath of the election will be psychologically and historically more important than the election result itself.

It is hard to convey how exceptionally weird this all looks from the outside.

Posted by b on November 3, 2020 at 18:17 UTC | Permalink

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Old and Grumpy @ 78

They don't have any positions! They are the Democratic Party, therefore entitled to rule America forever. What support they have is from the Looney Left who, spoiled by winning every issue in the culture war, will throw a temper tantrum any time they don't get their way. Because they get there way practically all the time, they freak out if you just look at them the wrong way. No wonder we've had a 4 year meltdown since Trump appeared on the scene. And they'll double down on their hissy fit as we begin another 4 years.

Funny, I used to be left leaning. Certainly could find common ground with Liberals on many issues. Now all you get from the activists and the left wing media is a monotonous virtual signal.

Posted by: EoinW | Nov 3 2020 23:18 utc | 101

Posted by: gorem | Nov 3 2020 23:06 utc | 97

Wow. I don't know how I missed b's Soros reference. He seems to be getting tricked into a couple of different things that are common among my American relatives and friends. For one thing, BLM is not a violent organization and most every protest that devolved into a riot or looting was aided by outside agitators (yes, I know this is a fraught topic - even BLM activists frown on saying that) - OR - police brutality and violence against demonstrators, nor does it have any roots in Soros' foundations. They only pledged to start donating to BLM and other "racial justice" groups in mid July of this year. Who knows what amount of money has already been spent and on what at this point.

I'm tired of the narrative in right-wing circles that has seeped into MOA coverage and mentions of the unrest in America that implies MOST of the demonstrations are violent. They are not. At least 93% OF ALL protests have been peaceful.

ACLED found the suggestion of sprawling paralyzing chaos in American cities not reflective of reality on the ground. Instead that messaging is part and parcel of “disinformation campaigns” launched by opponents to the Black Lives Matter organization, its political platform or its supporters — a phenomenon documented by groups like the Anti-Defamation League, according to ACLED’s report.

The nonprofit’s analysis, in conjunction with Princeton University’s Bridging Divides Initiative, draws on an array of news reports both domestic and international on U.S. protests this summer. It is also shaped by real-time accounts on social media and other publicly available information.

Depending on a person’s political orientation or exposure to biased media framing — especially media that focuses lopsidedly on looting and vandalism — support for protests can be deeply influenced and lead to deliberate mischaracterizations of activists associated with Black Lives Matter or other civil rights movements and groups.

Portraying the group as a cadre of violent extremists or a “symbol of hate,” as President Donald Trump suggested explicitly in July, contributes to a sharp decline in support for the movement, largely among white people.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 3 2020 23:21 utc | 102

Cheating has always happened in elections, by both sides. 2016 was unprecedented in the use of the intelligence agencies to thwart the Constitution. This election cycle the MSM has shown itself for what it is with it's large scale censorship and blackouts - totalitarian.
Cheating has always happened in elections but this 2020 election cycle the Democrats will take cheating to another level - to the STRATOSPHERE.

Trump and his people saw it coming and so made attempts to thwart the NEW BEFORE SEEN OUTRAGEOUSLY MASSIVE cheating by Democrats and their allies.

Some see Trump's efforts as "distorting the electoral process" - what a laugh!!


Posted by: librul | Nov 3 2020 23:25 utc | 103

Tag Teamers - Teri and David,

You guys/gals are a stitch.

Posted by: librul | Nov 3 2020 23:27 utc | 104


rather NEVER

Posted by: librul | Nov 3 2020 23:33 utc | 105

I just read this piece on the election. They favor Biden and give a lot of reasons why. They make a compelling case for at least a narrow win for Biden

Biden’s Favored In Our Final Presidential Forecast, But It’s A Fine Line Between A Landslide And A Nail-Biter

Nonetheless, Biden’s standing is considerably stronger than Clinton’s at the end of the 2016 race. His lead is larger than Clinton’s in every battleground state, and more than double her lead nationally. Our model forecasts Biden to win the popular vote by 8 percentage points,1 more than twice Clinton’s projected margin at the end of 2016...

Indeed, some of the dynamics that allowed Trump to prevail in 2016 wouldn’t seem to exist this year. There are considerably fewer undecided voters in this race — just 4.8 percent of voters say they’re undecided or plan to vote for third-party candidates, as compared to 12.5 percent at the end of 2016. And the polls have been considerably more stable this year than they were four years ago. Finally, unlike the “Comey letter” in the closing days of the campaign four years ago — when then-FBI Director James Comey told Congress that new evidence had turned up pertinent to the investigation into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state — there’s been no major development in the final 10 days to further shake up the race.

Now, there are also some sources of error that weren’t as relevant four years ago. The big surge in early and mail voting — around 100 million people have already voted! — could present challenges to pollsters, for instance. Still, even making what we think are fairly conservative assumptions, our final forecast has Biden with an 89 percent chance of winning the Electoral College, as compared to a 10 percent chance for Trump. (The remaining 1 percent reflects rounding error, plus the chance of an Electoral College tie.)...

But what’s tricky about this race is that — because of Trump’s Electoral College advantage, which he largely carries over from 2016 — it wouldn’t take that big of a polling error in Trump’s favor to make the election interesting. Importantly, interesting isn’t the same thing as a likely Trump win; instead, the probable result of a 2016-style polling error would be a Biden victory but one that took some time to resolve and which could imperil Democrats’ chances of taking over the Senate. On the flip side, it wouldn’t take much of a polling error in Biden’s favor to turn 2020 into a historic landslide against Trump...

It’s also worth keeping in mind the background conditions in the country today. Trump only barely won the election four years ago, against a highly unpopular opponent in Clinton. In 2016, 18 percent of voters in the national exit poll disliked both Trump and Clinton, and those voters went for Trump by 17 points. If they’d merely split evenly, Clinton would have (narrowly) won the Electoral College. Many of those voters actually like Biden, though, who has much better favorability ratings than either Clinton or Trump.

Meanwhile, the election comes at a time where a 2:1 majority of voters are dissatisfied with the direction of the country amid a COVID-19 pandemic that his killed 233,000 Americans — and which has gotten worse in recent weeks — along with high (though improving) unemployment, a summer of racial protests, and continuous erosions of democratic norms by Trump and his administration. Trump’s approval rating has been in negative territory through virtually the entirety of his presidency. Trump’s electoral record is hardly unblemished: Democrats won the popular vote for the U.S. House by nearly 9 points in 2018, about the same margin that Trump now trails in national polls, in an election where polls and forecasts were highly accurate.

In other words, given everything going on in the country — and Biden’s popularity relative to Clinton — it simply shouldn’t be that hard to imagine a small number of voters switching from Trump to Biden. Indeed, that’s what polls show: There are more Trump-to-Biden voters than Clinton-to-Trump voters. The lion’s share of people who voted for Gary Johnson or another third party candidate four years ago also say they plan to vote for Biden.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 3 2020 23:42 utc | 106

Posted by: librul | Nov 3 2020 23:25 utc | 103

That's a lot of allegations without any factual information to back them. Let me get this out of the way first - I am not a Democrat nor do I support Joe Biden or any Democratic presidential nominee since Al Gore. Did not vote for Hillary or Obama and I DID vote in all of those elections, so I'm not making a partisan point on behalf of the Democrats.

That said, it's basically accepted Republican Party doctrine that the fewer people who vote, and the fewer votes that get counted, the better it is for Republicans. Even Trump has acknowledged it as principle.

Trump said this week of Democratic voting proposals. “They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”

It's the whole basis for the American electoral system and the exact reason that you'll often see the rejoinder that "America is not a democracy, it's a republic." (which is true)

Republicans stole both the 2000 election (Florida and elsewhere) and the 2004 election (Ohio) and I can't find any credible accounts of large scale Democrat/Intelligence Community election theft - whether by way of fake votes, voter intimidation, voting machine hacking/conflict of interest or anything else - unless I go back to the corrupt practices of certain Democrat controlled cities like Detroit and Chicago back in the early half of the 20th century.

NOW, do the Democrats lie their asses off and trot out fake scandal after fake scandal to try to derail Republican administrations (usually with deep state and globalist goals in mind)? Sure. Certainly. We've seen 3.5 years of it and it's laughable. But Republicans do the same things. Whitewater, for one. Note that in BOTH cases the sitting President was NOT removed from office, BUT plenty of other impeachable/prosecutable things committed by BOTH parties were essentially covered up and distracted from.

However, there is absolutely no question which side and party are trying to steal the 2020 election, just like in 2000 and 2004. Just because you see a story in the MSM doesn't make it automatically false and the ONLY stories I've seen across any media that I frequent (independent, center-right, leftist) is that it's Republicans who are doing their best to make sure as few Democrat votes as possible get allowed/counted. Furthermore it's Trump and his fans who are the ones already casting doubts on any outcome that doesn't favor his side. How is THAT not the makings of a "color revolution"?

At the end of the day THERE IS VERY LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE between the parties. If Biden gets elected, not much is going to change in a meaningful fashion to 99% of Americans. It's kabuki theater and horse race bullshit from the top down, all carried out by the corporate media and Silicon Valley in concert with the aforementioned groups (Republicans, Democrats, Deep State, etc.). I've said before that I will relish the disappointment of some of my more obnoxious Trump fan relatives and colleagues, but it will be short lived if he loses. For me, anyway. I'm sure there will be much unrest in the weeks and months, possibly years, that follow.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 3 2020 23:42 utc | 107

Usually, I agree with the posts here. However, this one is very far from reality. I suspect Trump will lose due to his malign handling of the Covid crisis. But, there won’t be a color revolution if he wins because Biden voters aren’t going to take to the streets. His voters may dislike Trump but they don’t particularly like Joe. Besides, Joe Biden couldn’t lead anyone out of a wet paper bag.

The media generated fears of election violence are just that, media generated. The one thing our media does quite well is frighten people for no reason. This is but another example.

And the Soros stuff is delusional.

Posted by: TimmyB | Nov 3 2020 23:54 utc | 108

For those interested in the Republican Party's efforts to disrupt the election results, I recommend Grag Palast's work. He has been tracking voter disenfranchisement since 2000. His points out that the Democrats have been good at vote suppression but that it has been almost entirely in the primary races, whereas the Republicans, starting big time in 2000, have been operating on a country-wide scale.

Trump himself has openly declared, "If all these people [Blacks, Hispanics, Asians et alii] vote, no Republican will ever win an election again." The Republican Party has become a minority party. That does not mean that the Democratic Party represents the needs and interests of the majority of the people of the United States, but it does mean that the Republican Party is completely out of touch with the majority's needs and interests. Look, only, at the response to the pandemic, and Trump's claim that "we've turned the corner, it's going away".

For all her faults (and they are many), Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! has been doing an excellent job of tracking voter suppression on an almost daily basis.

For Palast:

Posted by: RJPRJ | Nov 3 2020 23:56 utc | 109

And thanks to teri and David for being so articulate.

Posted by: RJPRJ | Nov 3 2020 23:57 utc | 110

In reply to my own post, I think I did vote for John Kerry when he was up against Bush in 2004, but I am not certain. I definitely hated Bush and definitely went to vote that year, but my memory is foggy on the matter - I had major issues with Kerry as a candidate, and in 2000 I had to hold my nose when voting for Gore because of LIEberman. What's not foggy is my memory of the Republican shenanigans in Florida and Ohio (for which I think there were later punishments of some kind).

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 0:00 utc | 111

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 3 2020 23:42 utc | 107

Agree with your post pretty much in its entirety. Rereading b's very short post pretty much shows he has zero evidence to single out the Dems for planning violence. As I mentioned in previous threads, people who claim it's the protesters who are responsible for the violence claim that they're just preparing for that - whereas the evidence shows that they're the ones who are armed, and favored by the cops who in turn are responsible for escalating the violence in the protests.

Note: While I'm not one to say that "property destruction is not violence" - indeed, I'm perfectly happy with both property destruction - of the right persons and especially any property owned by the state and the financial community - *and* violence against the same parties - the fact is that most of the violence appears to have originated from specific groups and not from most of those protesting. Tarring all of them with the epithet "violent protesters" is simply incorrect. Those protesters who reacted with violence against the cops once the cops had initiated excessive violence on their part are justified. The only way one can think they're not justified is if one assumes that cops are never wrong.

b provided no evidence for his "hunch" that Trump retains power due to the Electoral College. I've read two articles today, one of which is in my previous post, that argues Biden has several paths to the necessary 270 Electoral Votes - as does Trump. Beyond that, as an anarchist, I'm not motivated to spend a lot of time analyzing the situation - especially given that it will be resolved over the next few days (at least until the legal battles start.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 0:11 utc | 112

Posted by: RJPRJ | Nov 3 2020 23:56 utc | 109

Agree. Palast is good. He was the journalist who exposed Bush and Baker and the oil industry's plans for Iraqi oil prior to the invasion (he exposed it after the invasion, but the plan was in place beforehand.) As you say, he's been very big on tracking voter disenfranchisement operations.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 0:14 utc | 113

Yeah trump made a big deal about contesting the result but it seems like everyone forgets what a bullshitter that arsehole is. Take a look at his 'rallies' over the past few days and you'll see a creep whose looking round for a new scam, developing lines he can use to extricate himself from the current one.
Despite all the promises of proud boys etc, few if any polling places have featured armed whitefellas threatening anyone.

As for the supremes, if the final vote (including postals) is overwhelming biden, there is no way the supremes will rock that ship.
I've made a bit of a study of the assorted 'highest courts in the land' of most 'western nations' and one thing they never do is go massively against the will of the people on a big, highly visible issue. Yep the judges who get onto them are frequently corrupt and they are very political and that is just it, they are political and going against an openly stated vastly supported indication of the will of the people is something they do not do. Why? Cause above everything else these judges want to keep their gig - keep copping backhanders from billionaire owners which they cannot do if they upset the population so much that their court gets abolished/readjusted.

Talk of riots sells fishwraps and gets eyeballs on soap commercials, the media do what the media do.
Amerikans are gonna sit on their arses watching how the thing unfolds and its getting colder & colder outside, so the only way any huge numbers will get 'out there' is if something obviously (and not media beatup driven) wrong & corrupt occurs. Sure a few will buy into the postal votes are fixed nonsense but without really compelling evidence of a large scale fix, no one will do anything. Just a few nutters in other words same as always.
If the supremes prevented postal voters from being counted and that had a major effect on the outcome, the one certainty would be that the supreme court's days are numbered. As much as military bosses may want to get troops out enforcing a crooked supreme court, it is tough to see joe/jo grunt getting behind that. The result may hold in the short term but long term scotus would be screwed and they aren't stupid, the 'justices' know this.

So I reckon the predictions of armageddon are just the usual media beat up that won't happen.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 4 2020 0:24 utc | 114

thanks paco @ 79... so true! i wish more people would think like you!

thanks teri for your posts.. i have enjoyed them and think they have merit... i hope you continue to post...

thanks @ 107 k_c_... i tend to see it the same you as well.. although i am not living in the usa, so might not be following it near as closely...

i think b might have made a mistake leaning too much one way then not... it seems to me @jams early in the thread also wondered why only soros gets dragged out on the rug, and not the koch brothers.. it seems a bit biased and i say this rarely ever towards b...

Posted by: james | Nov 4 2020 0:32 utc | 115

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 0:11 utc | 111

Thanks. And I agree with your thoughts on the nature and origin of MOST of the violence that occurred during protests in the USA over the summer. Are there bad actors who blend into the BLM side of things? Of course there are. The situation was so chaotic that, unless one has a partisan/ideological narrative to push, it's not possible to characterize what happened in a few short sentences or blog posts, even. But anyone that thinks the 'Umbrella Man' in Minneapolis was some sort of super rare phenomenon in the protests hasn't been paying attention. In Oakland, Minneapolis and another place that I forget, it was armed right-wing saboteurs who took advantage of the existing protests and opened fire on cops and police stations. If the media was really "leftist" like so many around here seem to think, then why do they brush that kind of violence under the rug? Like I said @ 102, the majority of violent incidents and property destruction/theft was preceded by police brutality against demonstrators - OR - committed by outside actors with varying agendas. That's not to say people who ostensibly sided with BLM weren't looting in many cases, but most of them were probably dirt poor and desperate. Like after Katrina, but without the hurricane. When black people do it it's called "looting" but when white people do it it's called FINDING.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 0:34 utc | 116

Celebrities who said they'd leave America in 2016 if Trump was elected -- and didn't

Posted by: Mao | Nov 4 2020 0:35 utc | 117

teri @92

Sadly, you do not have to post anything on the topic in question for me to know that you are controlled by media narrative, and to know beyond any doubt that you have bought into the Russiagate conspiracy theory.

How can I know that?

The current media narrative is that it is the Trump supporters who are threatening peace and stability in the US, but what does the empirical evidence show?

While Trump supporters view their candidate as a "human Molotov cocktail" to throw at the system with their vote, we see no evidence yet that they are interested in throwing real Molotov cocktails to burn down their own neighborhoods. Some people have been throwing real Molotov cocktails around, though.

With the first surprise upset in 2016, what was the Dims' response? "Not my president!", right? Are you suggesting that if they get hit with another surprise upset loss they will be more rational now? After they have spent the summer practicing their real Molotov cocktail throwing skills?

Don't bother answering because we all know who has been throwing the Molotov cocktails and who has been enabling them by calling their violence "Peaceful but fiery" and demanding the police treat arson and looting as protected political speech.

You have bought into the mass media narrative that it is the Trump supporters who are a threat when all of the empirical evidence points the other way, and that is a sign that you buy into mass media narratives in general. How many people do you think are buying into the narrative that the "deplorables" are the threat to America who also didn't buy into "Russia! Russia! Russia!"? I'd say roughly 0%, since it is approximately the same narrative.

A rock through a window never comes with a kiss
Rhyme and a reason never argue with a fist
There's a time for discussion and a time for a fight
It's the time in the season for a maniac at night

There's a lot to be said for a blow to the head
So come on! Make a show! Turn it on! Let it go!

Put some madness to the method!
We need! We need! We need! We need!
We need madness to the method!
Revolt! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!
We want madness to the method!
We need! We need! We need! We need!
We need madness to the method!
Revolt! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!X6

We don't care as long as there's some madness!

The member's only lacking with the stage cologne
Try to pacify the jackals at the watering hole
The boys want to mix in with the girls at the bar
And the train doesn't wait when there's no one in the car

Babe, is there a mission to destroy your inhibitions?
So come on! Get some show! Hang it out! Rock and roll!

Put some madness to the method!
We need! We need! We need! We need!
We need madness to the method!
Revolt! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!
We want madness to the method!
We need! We need! We need! We need!
We need madness to the method!
Revolt! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!X6

We don't care as long as there's some madness!

It's a hormone war zone - boys are out for a fight;
Wenches in the trenches on a Saturday night
Stick it here, stick it there; get it out of sight
It's the time in the season for the nasty things at night

Put some madness to the method!
We need! We need! We need! We need!
We need madness to the method!
Revolt! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!
We want madness to the method!
We need! We need! We need! We need!
We need madness to the method!
Revolt! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!X6

Hey, let's have a riot, huh?

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 0:42 utc | 118

The Spectator Index @spectatorindex

FINANCE: Deutsche Bank is looking to cut its ties with President Trump, who has $340 million in outstanding loans, following the election.

(Via Reuters)

Posted by: Mao | Nov 4 2020 0:50 utc | 119


agreed the recent few william gruff’s posts have been strangely juvenile and immature , as if the original poster was changed and now it is a troll handling his nickname.

however i think most propable cause is this , he just a troll who pretend to be rational to gain cred and respect in this site , then at the moment his service called for , he drop his mask and go full on trolling.

just like jackrabbit the resident poster here , you can count him posting rational posts until he was needed to troll this site. This is the same dude who for months posted that erdogan staged his own assasination attempts , as if he was tasked to spread this narrative here..

be very wary about these kind of poster who can do 180 suddenly and change personality as if their account name was shared by different people

Posted by: milomilo | Nov 4 2020 0:59 utc | 120

THE WEIRD OF THIS NOVEMBER and THE ELECTION : ....."b" comes out of the closet supporting the Breitbart Tale of the Lost Hunter Biden Laptop.....and the Trump Reelection !! .....Ice Cube supports the Trump Administration and Blue Lives Matter.....Glenn Greenwald also comes out of the Closet as a Trump Supporter !!...... Moon of Alabama should clarify their support of Guaido and the Miami "Cuban exile" community once for all !!

Posted by: opereta | Nov 4 2020 1:01 utc | 121

The New York Times @nytimes

Here's how the news media plans to report the election results.

The New York Times @nytimes

Correction: We've deleted an earlier tweet that referred imprecisely to the role of the news media in the U.S. presidential election. The news media projects winners and reports results; it does not declare the winner of the election.

Deleted tweet:

Posted by: Mao | Nov 4 2020 1:08 utc | 122

Head of US Postal Service in Contempt of Court:

"'Haul Louis DeJoy in Front of a Criminal Grand Jury': Outrage After Postal Service Misses Court-Ordered Election Day Deadline. 'It's how we all thought they would do it. It's what they said they wouldn't do. And it's exactly what they are doing.'" [My Emphasis]

Direct evidence of Executive Branch electoral manipulation automatically renders election fraudulent.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 4 2020 1:09 utc | 123

Trump takes Florida. The whole race now depends on Pennsylvania.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 4 2020 1:13 utc | 124

Twitter Inc and Facebook Inc on Tuesday suspended several recently created right-leaning news accounts posting information about voting in the hotly contested U.S. election for violating their policies.

Twitter said the accounts had been suspended for violating its policy against “coordination,” posting identical content while appearing independent or engaging in other covertly automated behavior. Facebook suspended them for inauthentic behavior.

Posted by: Mao | Nov 4 2020 1:14 utc | 125

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 0:42 utc | 117

There's a lot going on in that one post. Most importantly, when arrest records and other information have been reviewed, almost none of the arrestees had any ties to BLM or Antifa.

And how frequently were Molotov cocktails even used in protests? Did they come proactively or reactively (previous police crushing of peaceful demonstrations)? You're working really hard to cast aspersions on the left by associating them with not only Dimocraps, the MSM and Russiagate, but also ALL of the violence/looting at protests. What is your agenda? I almost always agree with your posts, but on the protests you seem to have taken a very hard stand against BLM. As I pointed out earlier, 93% of protests were non-violent. That's not some crafty way of describing violence as though it wasn't violence.

Here's the data

Violence is defined in the report as a clash between demonstrators and police or counterprotesters, or as incidents where property damage was caused. In the 2,400 locations surveyed nationwide, 220 protests (just under 10%) were categorized as “violent.”

I would go out on a pretty short limb and surmise that even some of the ones categorized as "violent" probably didn't result in any property damage or physical harm to anyone, on any side. Also that many of the "violent" ones were probably instigated by THE POLICE.

So why is ALL the media coverage, including by the "leftist" corporate outlets like CNN and NYT, focusing on the violent ones, at the expense of the message BLM and other police reform groups are trying to get out there? Again, how many recorded incidents of the use of Molotov cocktails are there and where did they occur? It's really quite simple if you actually think about it - it's because the corporate media's agenda is division among the plebes and to plan, cover up or apologize for the crimes of high government officials, corporate executives and oligarchs.

Back to the violence, though, there are too many examples to count of the narrative you (AND the mainstream, not to mention right wing news media and talk radio jocks) are pushing being completely backwards.

Protesters de-escalate police violence

And the same corporate "leftist" MSM casually dismisses rampant police violence.

Top 16 euphemisms for police beating the shit out of demonstrators

Also, what about the type of regular, ingrained and systemic violence that USA law enforcement undertakes against people every day, especially through the criminal justice system that the BLM people are protesting against? That's not getting much mainstream media attention, much less right-wing media. The usual cruelty

And then there's the Antifa myth. If it was so prevalent, then why can't the Donald Trump DOJ and FBI tie a single protestor to the group? The vast majority have no ties to "the left" at all.

I dunno, but lately it seems like you're pushing Trump's narrative 100%.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 1:20 utc | 126

Pennsylvania is now being called too close to call. It may be a long night, or a long several days.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 4 2020 1:21 utc | 127

I vaguely remember reading that Pennsylvania was going to be the battleground state - the "Florida" of this election (referencing the 2000 election.)

From The Guardian today: Pennsylvania: the battleground state that may be at the center of election storm

The state and its 20 electoral college votes are sitting at the center of a perfect storm. Polls show one of the tightest races among the battleground states between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Models project Pennsylvania as the state most likely, when it tips, to take the entire election with it.

The state also overhauled its election laws last year and is allowing no-excuse mail-in voting for the first time. There could be as many as 10 times as many mail-in votes as there were in 2016, Kathy Boockvar, the state’s top election official, said on Sunday.

Pennsylvania law also prohibits election officials from processing mail-in ballots until election day, which means it could take days to know the winner in the state, leaving a window for Trump to claim victory before all the votes are counted. Boockvar has said she’s confident the majority of votes will be counted by Friday.

It’s possible that the entire national election could encounter a physical bottleneck in Philadelphia, the state’s most populous city. Every mail-in ballot in the city – as many as 400,000 – is to be counted inside a cavernous convention center downtown using new equipment and newly trained staff observing social distancing measures.

Read the article. Talk about a recipe for disaster. If Jackrabbit's theory is correct, this is where the Deep State will make their move. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 1:36 utc | 128

Mao | Nov 4 2020 1:14 utc | 124

"Twitter Inc and Facebook Inc on Tuesday suspended several recently created right-leaning news accounts posting information about voting in the hotly contested U.S. election for violating their policies.

Twitter said the accounts had been suspended for violating its policy against “coordination,” posting identical content while appearing independent or engaging in other covertly automated behavior. Facebook suspended them for inauthentic behavior."

IOW corporate social media predictably inauthentically lowered the final boom against natural internet coordination (exactly what the internet originally was advertised as affording) at the last moment in their desperate attempt to manipulate the election.

Well, why not. It's clear they can do whatever they want with zero fear of reprisal from Trump or his "base", who seem a rather pathetic bunch of lackeys. Are they willing to go to the streets or not, something Trump himself never was willing to organize, is the question.

And if the Democrats manage to occupy the White House, the government-media-anti-"social" censorship regime will have no limits.

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 1:40 utc | 129

milomilo @Nov4 0:59 #119

[jackrabbit] ... for months posted that erdogan staged his own assasination attempts , as if he was tasked to spread this narrative here..

I'm not "tasked" with writing anything here. LOL!

What I write are things no one in the establishment want discussed or considered. TPTB would rather that we all just swallow MSM narratives.

Your suspicions about me also fail because:

  • the possibility that Erdogan staged his own coup attempt has been written about by many others;
  • such false flags are not unknown: consider the Reichstag fire that elevated Hitler;
  • Erdogan himself called the attempted coup a "gift from God" - rather strange for someone that (supposedly) was nearly killed during the coup - what such a formulate REALLY DOES is implicitly convey divine imprimatur upon Erdogan;
  • Erdogan still defies Russia (supposedly his savior!) in Syria and elsewhere.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 4 2020 1:45 utc | 130

Pennsylvania the pivotal state? That's appropriate if it's a toss-up between:

*"YES on ecocidal, community-destroying fracking which has no future", vs.

*"YES on ecocidal, community-destroying fracking which has no future, except No because I pretend to care about climate change, except YES because I really want ecocidal, community-destroying fracking which has no future."

I think that sums it up well enough, and Pennsylvania voters will get what they vote for.

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 1:47 utc | 131

Media seems to be convinced that there will be no result today or tomorrow, possibly no final results till Friday (maybe even longer)

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 1:50 utc | 132

This is the third time someone has claimed that Soros is funding protests for the automomous anarchist BLM movement. Would someone please provide evidence or shut the fuck up.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 1:58 utc | 133

Florida pretty clearly Trump.
Trafalgar and others were correct in:
1) No blue wave in early mail-in.
2) Significant Biden underperformance vs. 2016 in Miami-Dade and other HRC/2016 strongholds.
3) Republicans actually out-turning out Democrats. 190K more Republicans voting than Democrats in the data thus far.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 4 2020 1:58 utc | 134

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 1:58 utc | 132

That part isn't really that controversial. But he only took an interest in BLM in about mid-July.

Soros dumps money into racial justice projects

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 2:02 utc | 135

Doh! [Just as well I guess...] In yet another embarrassing senior moment, Biden introduced his teenage granddaughter Finnegan (err.. no, Natalie) as his late son Beau Biden ['s daughter? (mindreading here)] to a crowd of supporters during an election day appearance in Philadelphia today.

Posted by: gm | Nov 4 2020 2:06 utc | 136

_K_C_ @125

There is no "left" in America, including BLM and antifa brownshirts blackshirts, so no aspersions that I may cast can land upon real leftists. The US political spectrum starts somewhere around "Baby Doc" Duvalier on the left and goes downhill from there.

The ACLED organization that you linked only aggregates data from the corporate mass media, so all it can do is concentrate existing bias and disinformation that big business is feeding to the public.

Please note that there is not a single 'leftist' corporate mass media organization in existence on the entire planet Earth. In fact, big business is the antithesis of the left.

How do you think a "Peaceful but fiery" riot is categorized by the corporate mass media? Hint: You don't have to guess because the answer is right in the quote. This is the data that ACLED is working with, and it happens to not support the assumptions that you are working from.

But you are correct that the corporate mass media (and capitalist financed NGOs like ACLED) have division of the population into mutually antagonistic groups as their objective. Where you lose the scent is in thinking that the groups you imagine to be on the side of light are immune to that manipulation. On the contrary, these groups are created by that manipulation.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 2:09 utc | 137

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 2:02 utc | 134

Also, the groups he's funding don't look like autonomous anarchist groups who might be inclined to use violence, either - although I don't know the provenance of the groups cited in the article.

Of the $220 million, the foundation will invest $150 million in five-year grants for selected groups, including progressive and emerging organizations like the Black Voters Matter Fund and Repairers of the Breach, a group founded by the Rev. Dr. William J. Barber II of the Poor People’s Campaign. The money will also support more established Black civil rights organizations like the Equal Justice Initiative, which was founded by the civil rights lawyer Bryan Stevenson and depicted in the 2019 movie “Just Mercy.”

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 2:09 utc | 138

Russ @128: "Are they [Trump supporters] willing to go to the streets or not..."

They are not.

While our resident bunny thinks that Trump supporters view their candidate as their "Glorious Leader", most in fact just view him as their human Molotov cocktail that they threw into the electoral works. He's their monkey wrench, or "sabot", that they threw into the machinery. Do you imagine that they are surprised, or even a little disappointed, when their Molotov cocktail crashes and burns? Not at all.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 2:27 utc | 139

Just passing through with a fly-by glance, but for the record, Gruff seems exactly like Gruff, b seems just like b, and Hack n' Jack are damn sure the same ;)

All is well, then, on the persona-integrity front.

And all the sound and fury still signify the same nothing.

Personally, I'd get more entertainment out of 4 more years, but if the Democrats despite their heroic effort to LOSE the election actually win it, then it will probably be worth it for their supporters to see how empty the Dem allure was in reality - and this time, unlike with Obama, I suspect a lot of people will see through it.

The Dems will have to manage the economy and the pandemic, mired in baksheesh and with zero compass, sliding backwards while striving to appear as moving forwards. I don't think they have the face for it.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 4 2020 2:38 utc | 140

"Throughout the last months the required tactics have been tested with Soros funded Black Live Matters protests and anarchist riots in Portland and other cites."


Stopped reading there. The big BLM org is hoovering up money from everywhere- maybe they got some of Soros' money, but that specific organization looks to have been explicitly created to capture those funds and prevent them from getting to local groups that are actually in the streets. Pretty sure all that cash is still sitting in the bank. I believe it is under the control of a white music industry exec, who will no doubt pay himself and a few friends handsomely to manage this wonderful charity.
As far as anarchists accepting money from an oligarch- you obviously have never met an anarchist. This claim is laughable.

Posted by: Arkady Bogdanov | Nov 4 2020 2:46 utc | 141

So what is the assessment of the election so far, all the mainstream media outlets are saying that the election will take days to sort out before a clear winner is declared. Doesnt look like a landslide for either side is possible and it will certainly be closer than 2016 in the electoral college. Does anyone think a winner will be declared tonight

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 2:49 utc | 142

Arkady Bogdanov | Nov 4 2020 2:46 utc | 140

"As far as anarchists accepting money from an oligarch- you obviously have never met an anarchist. This claim is laughable."

The reason I gave up on anarchism years ago, even though I still cherish the ideal as a pleasant fantasy, is how I saw what frauds all self-alleged internet "anarchists" were about the cancer ("growth") economy and about intrinsically authoritarian hierarchical technology.

After that it wasn't the slightest surprise how almost all self-proclaimed "anarchists" ran home to statist-authoritarian mama the second the "Covid"-spewing TV gave them their marching orders.

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 2:56 utc | 143

Kadath | Nov 4 2020 2:49 utc | 141

"all the mainstream media outlets are saying that the election will take days to sort out before a clear winner is declared..."

Given how they were all so confidently pre-declaring a Democrat victory, that sounds like a loss of confidence.

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 3:02 utc | 144

Re: Russ 143,

if 2020 is a replay of 2016 then Im not sure how the polling agencies could ever recover, it would appear that they deliberately falsified polling data to either 1) manipulate the election turnout - or - 2) were a bunch of spineless yes-men who gave manipulated data to show what their clients (the Democrats) wanted

Also, I'm now watching NBC's livestream, they don't look happy

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 3:09 utc | 145

All that matters are the swing states.
Florida: MSM poll said tied, actual is Trump+3.5 so far(95% reporting).
North Carolina: Biden got the expected early lead but all 3 or 4 counties not yet reported -> went Trump in 2016. At this moment it is Biden+0.17% = ~10,000 votes. I see Trump winning this by not a lot.
Texas: Democrats smoking crack to think they could win Texas. All those literally dozens of numbers texting me: women, muslim blah blah wasted their time...
Georgia: Trump+13% but I can't tell if Atlanta (Fulton, Cobb Counties) reported yet. Trafalgar saying Trump+6.5 vs. MSM Biden+1.
Wisconsin - Trump leading at the moment. Trump won Wisconsin in 2016 but even Trafalgar had WI going to Biden by a bit.
Michigan: Trafalgar and MSM are 100% diametrically opposite.
Pennsylvania: I think Biden lost this state with his Fracking comments - his time in Scranton notwithstanding.
Minnesota: Trafalgar expects a Trump loss.
Nevada: Trafalgar expects a Trump loss.
Iowa: Trafalgar expects a Trump win.
Ohio: Trafalgar expects a big Trump win vs. MSM tie.

What seems clear so far: The Libertarian vote is going to Trump. Jorgensen was polling in the 1% to 2% range in the swing states but is polling well under that: 0.6% in Florida for example.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 4 2020 3:10 utc | 146

"Why all this fuzz? The difference between the two major parties is slim. Whoever wins will be constrained in his policies to fit the general imperial trends the U.S. follows. "

Yes this is right.
But who is setting the agenda of "the general imperial trends the U.S. follows" ? Who are these actors that "the US follows" ?

Pepe had this pearl in the article he published yesterday : "Big Capital – from East and West – is very much in tune with where all of this is going". This answers the question " Who are these actors that "the US follows" ? "

But the problem is that it is difficult to identify who these "big capital holders" are.
Too often the academic world loses itself in the surface appearances. In the case of studies about power by academics I wrote the following in 2018 in "A growing disconnect between East and West" (in 8.3.1.Global capital or control by the biggest Western capital holders) :

" The Swiss Federal Institute published a study in 2011 that analyzed the different forms of ownership between 43,060 trans-national corporations (TNCs). The team of researchers found that some 1,318 companies form the core of the global economy while 147 control 40% of their total wealth. What’s more the top 25 among these 147 are the world’s top asset management firms. These 25 can “be thought of as an economic ‘super-entity’ in the global network of corporations”.

By pointing to the role of asset management firms as the real decision makers, the authors of the Swiss Federal Institute are hiding the role of the minority, among capital holders, that owns the controlling stake of the world’s total capital base. The owners, of the assets played by asset management firms, are indeed hidden. Furthermore their investments outside of those asset management firms are invisible in the study.

But there is no escaping the fact that the ownership, of the controlling stake of the world’s total capital base, procures its holders with ‘the ownership’ of the Great Game of Power. "

In his study titled "Giants" Peter Phillips further states that some 66% of the world's wealth is owned by EU and US capital holders! This shows how the weight, of past capital accumulation, is still weighing very heavily on the present reality...

So we are in a situation where we know for a fact that -- big capital exists and is represented by a few families -- big capital owns the Western decision making process -- but we can't put family names on what is "big capital" because those family names are hidden by the world’s top asset management firms...

What does this imply in terms of Geo-political security ?

I venture to suggest that -- in the short term we'll see Western big capital imposing a quietening of the tone in the public discourses of its servants' -- within a few short years Western big capital and Chinese state capital will eventually find a 'modus operandi' -- that 'modus operandi' will initially be managed within Regional Economic Blocks and then the interactions between blocks will generate a new global architecture in which East-Asia will be dominant.

Today's "governance-world", or "Geo-politics", is driven by the competition between "Western big capital holders" and "China's state capital". But this never appears front page in the mainstream media because, while deciding for the world, Western big capital holders want to remain hidden. And so the Western media shows us the "surface appearance" of Western power but political decision-makers, and the rest of the Western establishment, are merely the servants of "Western big capital". Elections are thus merely a show to blind the peasants.

The shit show of Western governance of these last few years is now concluding with a new "governance-world" reality that can be summed up as follows :

2.1. the Western Geo-political architecture imposed on the world after 1945 has been dynamited by Trump and there is no going back to this architecture. China is confirming this with its "dual circulation" concept while it is reaffirming the priority of state owned enterprises in the Chinese economy (see the last public humiliation of Jack Ma and Aunt financial).

2.2. the only remaining semblance of Int'l order today is found in the Regional Economic Blocks [ North-America, South-America, EU, African Union, Eurasian Economic Union, East-Asia (ASEAN, Chinese civilizational space, North-East Asia), ... ].

Over the following years these blocks are going to go into overdrive trying to strengthen their internal institutional build-up while also trying to coordinate their activities with neighboring blocs. The China-Russia entente has to be analyzed in this particular context to discover what is really going on... and check how the US is trying to destabilize this great game of the century (India, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey, ...) and India will rapidly have to adjust to this reality otherwise it will be marginalized in the Great Game of Power of the Century.

Posted by: laodan | Nov 4 2020 3:16 utc | 147

Biden's early lead in Texas has disappeared. His early leads in Ohio and North Carolina have almost disappeared. Trump retains a very surprising 8-point lead in Virginia, with 56 percent of votes counted. The Republican candidate for the Virginia Senate seat is almost as far ahead as Trump. I suspect this reflects blacks and Hispanics voting for Republicans.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 4 2020 3:21 utc | 148

if 2020 is a replay of 2016 then Im not sure how the polling agencies could ever recover, it would appear that they deliberately falsified polling data to either
You did not mention that inaccurate polls will help trump win.

That is how inaccurate polling worked in 2016.
Trump won 2016 with fewer votes than Romney got in 2012. The affect of telling people that Trump has no chance of winning is that a lot of anti-trump voters just don't bother to vote.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 4 2020 3:21 utc | 149

Young Turks looks like they are about to give their 2016 election night meltdown a run for the money

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 3:26 utc | 150

@jinn #148
Utter nonsense.
The turnout this year will be the largest in multiple decades.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 4 2020 3:26 utc | 151

I shouldn't have posted that last comment, because, since I wrote it, Trump took the lead in Ohio and North Carolina. He is so far in the lead in Michigan and Wisconsin. If he actually takes Virginia, he may not need to take Pennsylvania.

Trump may win the election tonight. His performance in Virginia is startling.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 4 2020 3:29 utc | 152


that's a possibility too, the two political parties are both controlled by the same ultra-rick A-holes, but how long could rank and file Democrats support the party if the party keeps sabotaging easy wins, 1 election, sure but 2 elections in a row - someone will need to fall on their sword just to show that epic failures have some sort of consequences. I think Nancy Pelso will need to be volunteered for that role.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 3:34 utc | 153

the Young Turk's 2020 meltdown has begun

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 3:41 utc | 154

"Pennsylvania as the pivotal state"

Those thin threads are made of irony.

A guy with mental problems comes at the police with a knife
and the police shoot him dead.
Following that there are riots over the death and people in Pennsylvania see the stark choice
between Trump - who offers to send troops to protect folks -
and Biden - who offers up a scolding to the rioters.

So, Pennsylvania goes Trump and that flips the entire election for Trump.
All because of one mental problem with a knife.

It's early yet to know how this election will turn out,
but I relish picturing a mental problem brandishing a knife as a great symbol
for our Democracy in 2020.

Posted by: librul | Nov 4 2020 3:47 utc | 155

I'm having deja vu watching TYT, they said the exact thing in 2016 where they would battle and crash the Democrats, now they are saying the same thing in 2020.

And how is our dear Circe doing?

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 3:52 utc | 156

Speaking of James Comey.

Do I have this sorted out?

The FBI agent that was charged with looking at Anthony Weiner's pc
discovered Hillary Clinton emails on the pc. He tried and tried to
get action from the higher ups but ... (crickets)...

The agent kept trying but then realized he had to become a whistleblower
if he wanted something to be done.

The FBI higher ups were going to look like the shits that they are when it
came out that they had just sat on the emails.

To protect himself James Comey had to preempt the whistleblower and DO SOMETHING.

James Comey had to weigh the costs of hurting Hillary's chances at getting elected
and protecting himself. The polls were saying that Hillary had this nailed so
Comey calculated and pretended to look at the emails. As we know, he determined that
the emails weren't a problem after all (big surprise, FBI guys). But, oops, Comey
really hurt Hillary's election chances. Ha!

If James Comey and Friends had looked at the Hillary emails on Weiner's laptop earlier in
the summer it would have been old news by the time the November election rolled around.
Thanks for stalling, Comey and Friends!

Posted by: librul | Nov 4 2020 4:05 utc | 157

re: 155 Smith,

your right, they made a huge fuss about how they were going to war with the corporatist Democrats, but they never did and then they fell in line with both Biden and Kamala. When they say "War" I think they mean "collude" instead.

Posted by: Kadath | Nov 4 2020 4:15 utc | 158

@ Kadath

Bernie Sheepdawg told them to vote Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020, they have no freaking choice, these people are talking heads.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 4:25 utc | 159

Both sides mischaracterize the other so badly.
The Republicans think the Dems are anarchist left wing liberals - when in actual fact they are the US arm of global paedophilia/Satanick population control
The Democrats think the Reps are stupid white people, but under Trump they vote for what they see as the anti-establishment dude who reflects their total lack of faith in institutions/media etc.

Posted by: Jezabeel | Nov 4 2020 4:29 utc | 160


The US economy – some facts

Explains this:


No matter the outcome, the fact that this election is so close is a clear indicator that Americans aren’t connecting material conditions on the ground — a depression, pandemic, low wages, etc — to the consequences of politics. Which is an abject, disgusting failure of Democrats.

We can observe the American economy has declined since 1980 relatively - but not by much. It was China that skyrocketed.

This is why the political polarization in the USA right now is being fought mainly on moral/ideological grounds. The American people still thinks it has sufficient time and resources to first fight among itself (put the proverbial traun back on its tracks) - only to then subjugate the rest of world (like it did in 1946 and 1992).

The Americans are still rationalizing in moral-ethic-ideological terms because their economy stagnated and is degrading - but not collapsing. This still gives them a material base to fuel their pride.

But pay attention: those data are in USD terms. Its industry was what declined the most in the linked fact sheet above. Before the War of Secession, the South was richer in USD terms than the North - but war quickly revealed most of the South's "GDP" was financialization (speculation over the slaves' prices).

Posted by: vk | Nov 4 2020 4:31 utc | 161

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 2:56 utc | 142 what frauds all self-alleged internet "anarchists" were about the cancer ("growth") economy

You've never been an anarchist of any stripe or you'd know the difference between left-wing and right-wing anarchism. You're probably actually a reformed Maoist, given your attitude.

"intrinsically authoritarian hierarchical technology."

Bullshit. There's no such thing as "intrinsically authoritarian technology" nor "hierarchical technology."

"almost all self-proclaimed "anarchists" ran home to statist-authoritarian mama the second the "Covid"-spewing TV gave them their marching orders."

Double bullshit. As I've said before, all the COVID deniers are nothing but moronic Trump mama's boys pretending to be rebels - just like their Savior.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 4:43 utc | 162

orangeutan is doing better than I expected, as power hungry & corrupt as the dollar dems are, I actually thought they would get their acts together but they didn't. It seems like they realised too late that 'minorities' especially african amerikans are not a single monolithic bloc happy to tap dance, roll their eyes and say "yes massa, we believe your promises" and then vote as they are told. Incidentally thinking about that, it would be interesting to know what happened on "Super Tuesday" when DNC claimed african americans all got behind biden - its probably too late plus the Sanders sheepdog would never force it, but it seems to me like either that vote was totally fixed or there has been an epiphany since.

Dragging oblamblam out to try and shore up the 'african american vote' has backfired - big time by the look of it. That is a bloke who can only remind african americans that the dems are all show & no go.

That TYT mob are saying now is the time for progressive dems to step in, but considering the so called progressive dems especially 'the squad' and even TYT to an extent followed the fit up of sanders by endorsing biden & doing everything Pelosi demanded it is going to take a lot more than those limp wrists to effect any real change.
As long as the dollar dems know that rank & file will swallow dollar dem diarrhea with little more than a murmur, they are gonna keep control of the party.
Dem party members who have had enough must do a lot more than say "Ooh that's sad" when the DC hacks push a Tom Perez to the front.

Frankly if orangeutan wins that will be totally down to the party rank & file's meek acceptance of Oblamblam foisting Perez on them as the new chairman of the DNC.

Minorities cannot be played any more, they access real information same as anyone else, they don't live in an easily propagandised bubble any more and I cannot imagine how it must feel to be still wearing the same old structural discrimination as always while having to put up with the worsening blatant lies of those who claim to be fixing it.
"Anyone but the dems" would be common reaction I reckon.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 4 2020 4:50 utc | 163

Hack | Nov 4 2020 4:43 utc | 161

Wrong hackboy.

On the contrary, it's self-evident that vermin which chooses to believe the MSM lies are nothing but the lowest most vile dregs ever.

But you go ahead calling yourself a state-obedient-"anarchist". Everyone here sees what filth you are.

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 5:02 utc | 164

The problem with this weird election is that b, and everyone else, seems to be missing the point. The politics is irrelevant; the outcome will be the same regardless of who wins: billionaires will become wealthier at the expense of everyone else, and people abroad will die for profit.

To me, on the outside looking in, the election problems are what they have always been, but never mentioned: the insane amounts of money (corruption) involved, and the insane, designed to be manipulated, voting machines and failed voting systems. But above all, we can see clearly how partisan and insane the media have become. Surely that is the biggest issue to be discussed.

Everything else is just fluff. Fix the media, and everything else ought to follow on. How you fix it is the conversation.

Posted by: C | Nov 4 2020 5:12 utc | 165

Posted by: laodan | Nov 4 2020 3:16 utc | 146 --

Thank you for a most thought-provoking posting, and for pointing us to your 2015 essay, which I downloaded for study.

Whereas Main Street America, those 'deplorable' 99%, are relatively stuck in the USofA, and whereas the 99% in the Rest Of The World are similarly stuck in situ wherever they happen to be living, yet the owners of capital, those 0.1% commanding their servants (your term) making up the rest of the 1-percenters, are global animals. These 0.1% are predominantly Westerners, as you note, but joining their ranks are some Easterners even now learning the rules of good conduct required to enter, and to hold membership therein.

By shrewd intent, by careful planning, they hold multiple passports, retain the world's best tax and legal professionals, benefit from non-extradition treaties, and plant their roots (children, grandchildren) judiciously in multiple jurisdictions to form interlocking, protective, defensive structures that are well nigh impenetrable so that their generational wealth is untouchable by governments. The old money is further along in refining these structures than the new money (eg. Huawei's Meng was caught out in the open, undefended), but the new money will learn, after an initial round of buying up football teams and other high-profile toys, to keep their heads down.

I rather like your description of how moneyed blocks might negotiate a new global money and power structure, and will be giving it more thought.

Thank you once again.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 4 2020 5:28 utc | 166

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 5:02 utc | 163

Struck a nerve with that "reformed Maoist" bit, eh? Thought so.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 5:31 utc | 167

Not looking good for Biden, even though he's still ahead in Electoral votes. Trump has won most states, and leads in eight swing states. If he takes those, he gets enough Electoral Votes to take the election.

Of course, I don't know if any this can be changed by the mail-in, absentee, and early voters.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 5:35 utc | 168

At this point in time - it seems quite clear that Trafalgar is going to be more right than anyone else...again.
Of these 9 swing states (Texas was not. Not even close):
Arizona Biden+7.6 54% reporting
Florida Trump+3.4 98% reporting (called for Trump)
Georgia Trump+7.4 81% reporting
Iowa Trump+8.5 93% reporting (called for Trump)
Michigan Trump+11 54% reporting
North Carolina Trump+1.4 100% reporting (called for Trump)
Ohio Trump+8.4 98% reporting (called for Trump)
Pennsylvania Trump+14.9 62% reporting
Wisconsin Trump+4.4 89% reporting

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 4 2020 5:42 utc | 169

*If* - I say again *if* - the current situation can *not* be changed by the mail-in, absentee and early votes - I call Trump the winner. He's going to get the Electoral College votes he needs to win.

He's leading by substantial margins - 8-10 points or more in almost all the remaining swing states with a large percentage reporting in each. Nevada will be a landslide.

Biden is done. Put a fork in 'em. This makes me really unhappy in terms of having to read about Trump's stupid tweets for another four years. OTOH, as others here have suggested, it will hasten the destruction of the country, which is a Good Thing. Of course, Biden would hasten it, too. So mostly it's about Trump's tweets and his moronic statements. :-)

I told Jackrabbit I would consider ten points or more a "landslide" for Trump. Looks like Jackrabbit was right (if the overall tally agrees with the swing states as they are at the moment.) His theory still remains a theory - but it now has somewhat more credibility.

My first thought is: this is the end of the Democratic Party as it stands now. There's no chance they recover from this brutal defeat twice in a row. Of course, they've lost two elections before (George W). But to lose to TRUMP this way? That's gotta hurt. LOL

It also leaves Hillary Clinton in the dust. So much for b's theory.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 5:53 utc | 170

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 2:09 utc | 136

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree on ACLED. They use more than just MSM sources, mostly local if I gather.

As far as there not being a "left" in the USA, I follow you - as has been discussed here many times, the left was crushed and is pretty limp at the present time. It's one of the reasons it made an old guy like me finally decide to leave the country for Europe. Things are a LOT more civilized here, even in Catalonia.

However, when I said "leftist" MSM, I was being sarcastic. Obviously there will never be a corporate media outlet that aligns left of center, or at least not for very long. But plenty of barflies seem to think that is the case anyway. I was kind of passively aiming that at them, not you.

On election matters, it's early in the morning here and not looking good for Team Blue at the moment. I suppose there are probably hundreds of thousands of mail-in ballots that Trump and the Republicans will fight tooth and nail to stop from being counted once the initial reports have him winning the EC.

All of that said, jackrabbit's theory/prediction just took a major hit. He must be in another country (not the USA) if he honestly thought that either Biden or Trump was going to win in a landslide, EC or popular vote. Wonder what he'll come up with next....

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 5:58 utc | 171

state by state map on this link you all might enjoy..

Posted by: james | Nov 4 2020 6:00 utc | 172

k c - pretty sure jackrabbit is in the usa - east coast i believe..

Posted by: james | Nov 4 2020 6:02 utc | 173

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 2:09 utc | 136

10 electoral points is a landslide? Come on, man. I think the historical definition of landslide has been something like 30 or 40 EC votes, hasn't it? Why bend over backwards to give his theory (of which I only disagree about the landslide part) such an artificially low bar to clear?

10 electoral votes would certainly contradict all the polling models....AGAIN. But it's not a landslide and jackrabbit should have to answer credibly for getting that part so wrong if that is what happens.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:02 utc | 174

Damnit, that last one was intended for RSH. Shouldn't say William Gruff, clipboard must have malfunctioned.

Should have said:

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 5:53 utc | 169

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:02 utc | 175

First of all, here's what I think of this article: 🙄💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤 ho-hum, ridiculously biased for Trump.

Secondly, everyone quit with your uninformed premature ejaculations over Trump scoring a win.

Virginia finally came in for Biden, he's flipping Arizona, Nevada has not come in yet, and millions of mail-in votes have not been counted in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania and the USPS already claimed earlier today that many ballots mailed in days ago have not yet been processed at all, and to expect delays.

This may not be officially over until next Monday!

Keep your britches on, cause it's going to be a long and frustrating night!

Trump wants to declare victory with over 2 million votes maybe more not counted???!

Arrest the bastard already!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 4 2020 6:04 utc | 176

funny enough circe this is all i have heard from either candidate - rt news

‘We believe we’re on track to win this election’: Biden hopeful for victory but not yet declaring....

Posted by: james | Nov 4 2020 6:06 utc | 177

My prediction for what happens next.

Early counts (not including many mail-in ballots) will give the picture that Trump has won. It's already leaning that way.

Trump will declare victory Wednesday before 5PM in the Eastern US, his DOJ, his Postmaster General and Republican operatives in battleground/swing states will use every legal trick (possibly even extra-legal or illegal) to stymie the counts from being completed at all.

Further, it looks like several of those states have precincts that are too close to call yet. There may be recounts demanded and the Republican machine will also attempt to interfere or prevent them from being completed like in 2000, this time with the benefit of a MUCH more "stacked" judiciary and SCOTUS than it was in 2000.

There will be protests, Trump and the MSM will play them up each to their own perceived advantage, and numerous acts of violence including a mass or drive-by shooting carried out by a Trump supporter. To go with lots of confrontational tactics from the likes of anarchists and Antifa, also played up heavily by Trump and the media.

Eventually, Biden will throw in the towel and concede - probably by end of this week, and the kabuki theater will have played out EXACTLY as planned. Give everyone hope that Trump's gonna be run out of the White House only to see an almost exact repeat of 2016. LOL. Amerikkka.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:12 utc | 178

Hmm, Circe, do emoji work now that Windows 10 has added Windows logo + . (period) ?


Going to bed soon, if I can fall asleep. W🤷‍♂️nder what the headlines will be in the morning.

Posted by: librul | Nov 4 2020 6:16 utc | 179

Biden in a lot of trouble. Not surprised, but i predicted a comfortable Biden win. Bad prognostication!

Gotta give a shout out to JackRabbit! He shouldn't have waffled down the stretch.

People define landslides differently, I'd say if you lose the popular vote, as Trump will likely, then he didn't win in a landslide.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 4 2020 6:17 utc | 180

Biden in a lot of trouble. Not surprised, but i predicted a comfortable Biden win. Bad prognostication!

Gotta give a shout out to JackRabbit! He shouldn't have waffled down the stretch.

People define landslides differently, I'd say if you lose the popular vote, as Trump will likely, then he didn't win in a landslide.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 4 2020 6:17 utc | 181

Last post from me on this thread barring a major surprise, but doesn't it suck for Americans that they are trapped into this two party system? On top of that, they mostly use a "winner takes all" approach to their elections. This is looking like one of the closest Presidential elections in history with basically half the population taking one side or the other. That means the losers are completely disenfranchised by the process and there is no middle ground. No wonder it's so easy for the oligarch owned mass media complex to keep everyone there so divided and toxic toward each other. Literally when your candidate loses, you have ZERO voice in government. Which leads to "birtherism" and "Not My President!" phony resistance and civil, not to mention civic unrest. There must be a better way for them (us, I guess, I'm still a citizen) that preserves the spirit of the Constitution.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:17 utc | 182

Actually, just heard that there are 2.2 million votes not yet counted in PA alone and then there's Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin and Nevada!

Twitter just flagged Trump for trying to steal the election.

Things are looking up--millions of votes left to count. The ballots won't be counted tonight.

Trump can stew all night. F*ck him!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 4 2020 6:25 utc | 183

I love it how people are still smoking crack on a Biden win.
Here's the reality:
There is no blue wave.
Not in early mail-in ballots.
Not in swing states.
Not in cities.
If Trump ends today +8% in Michigan and +10% in Pennsylvania - he is re-elected.
The only place Biden will win is where Trump didn't visit in the last 6 weeks: Arizona.
Every place Trump held multiple rallies in - he has exceeded his MSM polls.
The rallies which our Energizer Bunny present and future President held, worked.
The rallies energized his base - Trump used them to drive home Biden's gaffes - Trump played a video recapping Biden gaffes in every single rally and even updated it with things like the Obama's "Bueller? Bueller?" in Michigan.
Trump also picked his battle plan and stuck to it:
1) Crooked Joe (Where's Hunter?)
2) China!
3) Bring jobs back!
4) Religion is good!
5) Energy!
6) I love you!
7) Make America Great Again!
In Pennsylvania - he doubled down on the fracking but he talked about it everywhere.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 4 2020 6:26 utc | 184

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 4 2020 6:17 utc | 180

Hadn't seen that before I made my pledge to shut up until a major surprise happens, so I'll address it anyway.

A "landslide" victory in US presidential politics is NOT defined differently by everyone. It's pretty consistent. It means a massive victory in the Electoral College. 75% or more. It's not a flexible definition, so I will insist that @jackrabbit answers credibly for why he got that part so wrong like I knew he did. He didn't waffle; he stood by the landslide prediction and predicated the rest of his theory's validity on it. Sorry, but that needs to be addressed if he wants any other barflies from following his 'rabbit holes' in the future.

Here's some historical examples of "landslide" wins:

1804 – Thomas Jefferson (D-R) received 162 (92%) of the electoral votes while Charles Cotesworth Pinckney (Federalist) received only 14 (8%). Jefferson won 72.8% of the popular vote, the highest margin of victory in any presidential election with multiple major candidates, although several states did not record the popular vote.
1816 – James Monroe (D-R) received 183 (83.9%) of the electoral votes while Rufus King (Federalist) received only 34 (15.6%).
1840 – William Henry Harrison (Whig) received 234 (79.6%) of the electoral votes while Martin Van Buren (D) received only 60 (20.4%).
1852 – Franklin Pierce (D) received 254 (85.8%) of the electoral votes while Winfield Scott (Whig) received only 42 (14.2%).
1864 – Abraham Lincoln (R) received 212 (90.6%) of the electoral votes while George B. McClellan (D) received only 21 (9%).
1872 – Ulysses S. Grant (R) received 286 (81.9%) of the electoral votes while four candidates split the remaining 66 due to the death of Horace Greeley (D).
1912 – Woodrow Wilson (D) received 435 (81.9%) of the electoral votes while Theodore Roosevelt (Progressive) received 88 (16.6%) and William Howard Taft (R) received only 8 (1.5%)—the worst showing ever by an incumbent president. Wilson won just 41.8% of the popular vote in the three-way race, compared to 27.4% for Roosevelt and 23.2% for Taft.
1928 – Herbert Hoover (R) received 444 (83.6%) of the electoral votes while Al Smith (D) received only 87 (16.4%).
1932 – Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) received 472 (88.9%) of the electoral votes while Herbert Hoover (R) received only 59 (11.1%).
1936 – Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) received 523 (98.5%) of the electoral votes—the largest share since 1820—while Alf Landon (R) received only 8 (1.5%). Additionally, Roosevelt received 60.8% of the popular vote.
1940 – Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) received 449 (84.6%) of the electoral votes while Wendell Willkie (R) received only 82 (15.4%).
1944 – Franklin D. Roosevelt (D) received 432 (81.4%) of the electoral votes while Thomas E. Dewey (R) received only 99 (18.6%).
1952 – Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) received 442 (83.2%) of the electoral votes while Adlai Stevenson II (D) received only 89 (16.8%).
1956 – Dwight D. Eisenhower (R) received 457 (86.1%) of the electoral votes while Adlai Stevenson II (D) received only 73 (13.7%).
1964 – Lyndon B. Johnson (D) received 486 (90.3%) of the electoral votes while Barry Goldwater (R) received only 52 (9.7%). Additionally, Johnson received 61.1% of the popular vote, which still stands as the largest share since the national popular vote was first recorded in 1824.
1972 – Richard Nixon (R) received 520 (96.7%) of the electoral votes while George McGovern (D) received only 17 (3.2%). One Republican elector voted for John Hospers of the Libertarian Party. Additionally, Nixon received 60.7% of the popular vote.
1980 – Ronald Reagan (R) received 489 (90.9%) of the electoral votes while Jimmy Carter (D) received only 49 (9.1%).
1984 – Ronald Reagan (R) received 525 (97.6%) of the electoral votes while Walter Mondale (D) received only 13 (2.4%).
1988 – George H. W. Bush (R) received 426 (79.2%) of the electoral votes while Michael Dukakis (D) received only 111 (20.8%).

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:29 utc | 185

Woke up earlier thinking I'll find out who won. Looks like this is a contest with no winners, we are all going to lose no matter what. Sorry Circe, you certainly tried hard but the Rabbit took it with him.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 4 2020 6:33 utc | 186


Yep, surely not a landslide by any definition!

JackRabbit did waffle down the stretch and rearranged his whole "theory"...if I feel ambitious I will dredge up some BunnyMan quotes from previous MoA entries.

Posted by: Haassaan | Nov 4 2020 6:33 utc | 187

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:02 utc | 173 174

I was referencing my opinion that a "landslide" in this situation would be 10% of the popular vote (not the Electoral College votes) going either way. Obviously ten EC votes out of 530 is not a "landslide".

But Jackrabbit was probably wrong about his landslide. OTOH, if the final tally shows Trump ahead by ten points in the popular vote, i.e., he gets say, 56% of the vote and Biden gets 46% (not counting third parties, etc.) I call that a "landslide". Especially since Trump was behind by eight points according to the - now totally discredited - polls.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 6:48 utc | 188

Obviously that should have been 44%, not 46% in the above. You get the point: Trump wins by 10% or more of the popular vote.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 6:50 utc | 189

It was perhaps not the domination by Biden as I expected but I believe Biden will surpass 300 electoral votes when all counting is over which apparently could go on for days, Biden stands at 238 electoral votes at the moment.

No way that Trump will win PA and doubtful he will win Georgia not to mention Michigan.

Sorry but this is over, Neo-con candidate Joe Biden will win.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 6:52 utc | 190

Aww screw it. Why bother limiting posts on this event.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 6:48 utc | 187

OK, so you're saying that IF either candidate wins the POPULAR vote by more than 10% it's a landslide? I'll accept that definition for the purposes of this conversation and jackrabbit's "theory" - But you do realize that Biden is currently up almost 2M votes over Trump by that count, right? Also, the Republican'ts have not one but maybe TWO popular votes in the presidential race dating back to Nixon. I'm sure you know that. So there is no reason to assume that Trump will win the popular vote AT ALL much less by 10% or more.

Even if there is some dispute as to the definition, the term "landslide" means that one side was BURIED, as in no longer visible or palpable, by the other. That was NOT going to happen EITHER WAY in this election and I could see it from EU.

I already knew he was going to be wrong about his "landslide" prediction, just not by how much.

P.S. I appreciate your commentary and the dialogue - Figures that I'd get along best with a convicted criminal who served hard time. I always thought I'd be in the clink more often than I already was growing up. Cheers, and look forward to more back-n-forth in the future.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:59 utc | 191

Forget my previous Nevada comment, I misread it. Biden is leading there, but only 67% reporting.

Georgia is close - Trump 2 point lead with 93% reporting.
Michigan Trump 8 points lead with 66% reporting.
North Caroline is close - Trump 2 point with 94% reporting.
Wisconsin - 4% Trump lead with 89% reporting.

Pennsylvania - Trump comfortable lead - 14 points - but only 64% reporting. Clearly they're behind in reporting. This is where the action will be.

75 Electoral Votes still in play with Trump leading in every state except Nevada (which only has 6). Trump is only 9 behind Biden.

Again, I don't see Biden beating Trump unless Georgia and North Caroline (and maybe Wisconsin) swing back to Biden. If Trump takes these five states, it's over for Biden - unless Pennsylvania with its 20 votes breaks down the middle or swings to Biden. Again, Pennsylvania is going to tell the tale, most likely.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 7:05 utc | 192

I MEANT to say that's why the Republican'ts haven't WON the popular vote _________________ (not "one").

Getting sloppy here. That's why I like to limit myself.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 7:06 utc | 193

_K_C_ #190

Jackrabbits can dig their way out of any landslide so why would he worry.

I do not see any landslide in any of these numbers but there are quite a few candidates who I would like to bury in a rush.

Lindsay Graham re-elected ! how could they?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 4 2020 7:08 utc | 194

Am I right in thinking that, so far, Arizona is the only state that Trump won in 2016 that looks like it will flip to Biden in 2020?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 4 2020 7:11 utc | 195

c1ue # 183

I love it how people are still smoking crack on a Biden win.
Here's the reality:
There is no blue wave.
Not in early mail-in ballots.
Not in swing states.
Not in cities.

I guess you know the gig as you are inside the beast. I will shout you a six pack of tequila if Trump wins and we should get wasted on the strength of it. If Biden wins I will be getting just as wasted on finest Syrian Arak.

Neither of these two candidates is worth a pinch of sh!t.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 4 2020 7:16 utc | 196

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 4 2020 7:08 utc | 193

I'm conflicted with regards to how I view the jackrabbit's, ahem, participation here.

He's right about a lot of stuff, but he goes out on long limbs that are obvious from a distant vantage point.

He also takes up a LOT of bandwidth around here, as evidenced by my own continued referencing of him. Kind of like donkeytale used to do and craigsummers on the other side. Hence, I feel a little played every time I respond to or take to heart any of his comments in the same way I did back when I first started reading Bilmon and watched "Lost" on ABC. It was like the latter was making it up as they went along (as we've learned JJ Abrams really does do) and the former had it right on most everything.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 7:16 utc | 197

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 6:59 utc | 190 Biden is currently up almost 2M votes over Trump by that count, right?

I'm looking at the AP count just by typing "election 2020" into Google. That shows, as of the last time I refreshed the page, only about a million vote difference: 65,771,877 Biden to 64,063,435 Trump.

"Also, the Republican'ts have not one but maybe TWO popular votes in the presidential race dating back to Nixon. I'm sure you know that. So there is no reason to assume that Trump will win the popular vote AT ALL much less by 10% or more."

Didn't know that. I'm an anarchist - I don't follow elections, let alone election history. :-) If that's true, this probably well come down to the Electoral College.

"That was NOT going to happen EITHER WAY in this election and I could see it from EU."

Agreed. That's why I kept insisting Jackrabbit stick to his ridiculous "landslide". My prediction was either a close Biden win or a landslide Biden win. I couldn't see Trump getting a landslide. And I expected a close Biden win - or at worst, a close Trump win.

"P.S. I appreciate your commentary and the dialogue - Figures that I'd get along best with a convicted criminal who served hard time. I always thought I'd be in the clink more often than I already was growing up. Cheers, and look forward to more back-n-forth in the future."

Thanks. Me, too. The fun part was I wasn't a criminal until I hit my mid-40's. I was pretty law abiding all through my youth. Started turning in my late 30's. Being an anarchist helped - especially once I discovered the Bonnot Gang - turn of the century individualist anarchists who committed the first known carjacking which was then used to commit the first automobile getaway from a bank robbery. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 7:17 utc | 198

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 3 2020 19:23 utc | 30 -- "....the issue of Good Governance versus Bad Governance was raised in the lecture about China's System.... A review of US History will show the last time Good Governance won an election was in 1940, with the 76-year-long string of Bad Governance outcomes beginning in 1944."

So, while US leadership wasted 8 decades as they enriched themselves while enriching the 0.1 percenters, neglecting 2 generations of Americans, China used the same 8 decades learning how to self-govern, learning how to serve their people's needs, then achieving the essence of democracy: delivering the 21st Century good stuff to 2 generations of their 99%.

Like caravans in the desert night, US Bad Governance passes Chinese Good Governance headed the opposite way, but the dogs of the US Camp are too proud to recognise a good thing, thinking to themselves that if only they could bark loudly and rudely enough, then the Chinese might turn around to march behind them. LOL

Posted by: kiwiklown | Nov 4 2020 7:17 utc | 199

c1ue-less is apeshit for Trump, a sleazy con with 6 bankruptcies, and a massive foreign debt who will be arrested soon after he becomes Citizen Trump.

His campaign was a super-spreader marathon probably responsible for the deaths of countless other people who came into contact with the attendees. You being clueless would think that's a successful strategy!

You all will be glad to know that your Trumpcon got the Guaido Venzuelan vote and anti-Castro Cuban vote in Florida, the dumbest state in the imperial universe.

Trump has been trying to steal the election for MONTHS--that's his real strategy!

Arizona was called by Fox for Biden and Trump is bitching and railing that not all the votes were counted yet, CNN and others haven't called it yet, but Biden looks very close to winning there, but imagine the hypocrisy when there are 2 MILLION + plus votes yet to be counted in PA and hundreds of thousands in Michigan and Wisconsin and Trump wants to declare victory prematurely???

Biden has a better chance of winning Georgia than Trump winning Arizona at this point!

Trump wants to steal the election. Period!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 4 2020 7:24 utc | 200

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