Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 03, 2020

A Weird Election Where The Aftermath May Be More Important Than The Result

Every four years the United States has "the most important election ever" though none of those I remember have really changed anything fundamental.

Today's election is different because the Democrats have threatened to attempt a color-revolution should their candidate not win:

It seems clear that the Democrats will contest the election unless Joe Biden wins an electoral college majority. If Trump wins they will draw out any concession until the last mail in vote is counted and litigated through the last level of jurisdiction. They hope that the accompanying media attention, social media marketing and street action will wear down the support for Donald Trump.

Throughout the last months the required tactics have been tested with Soros funded Black Live Matters protests and anarchist riots in Portland and other cites.

This is, as far as I know, the first election day on which businesses have boarded up their shops because they fear that the election night will be followed by rampages and looting:

Business districts and office buildings in several U.S. cities are boarding up their doors and windows for fear of Election Day unrest and in the days that follow.

The sound of sawing, drilling and nailing filled several blocks around the White House and in New York City, including its iconic Macy's flagship department store.

Police said Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills will be closed down completely on Tuesday, following a large pro-Trump demonstration in the shopping district over the weekend.

Federal authorities planned to extend the perimeter fencing around the White House by several blocks, encompassing the same area fenced out during this summer's protests against racism and police brutality.

Why all this fuss? The difference between the two major parties is slim. Whoever wins will be constrained in his policies to fit the general imperial trends the U.S. follows.

It is funny though how little we know about the most likely outcome. The polls have been more often wrong than right and now show a tight race in those places that are really important. The final result may depend on a few hundred mail-in ballots in some county in Pennsylvania. Or there could also be a landslide in either direction.

My personal hunch is that Trump, who is much less exceptional than the media portrait him, will gain sufficient electoral college votes to stay in office.

If the Democrats react to that as they have planned it is quite possible that the aftermath of the election will be psychologically and historically more important than the election result itself.

It is hard to convey how exceptionally weird this all looks from the outside.

Posted by b on November 3, 2020 at 18:17 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

lysias # 148

I suspect this reflects blacks and Hispanics voting for Republicans.


Macho admires a Trump strong man - wimpy Bidens suck. Harris jails and dominates the black and hispanic man- Pence silent.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 4 2020 7:31 utc | 201

Trump is introducing America to fascist rule. He wants the ballot counting to stop and wants the Supreme Court involved.

This is insanity.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 4 2020 7:33 utc | 202

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 7:17 utc | 198

Interesting. I've got the (usual) reverse trajectory. I started off as a born anarchist. Nobody and no authority was going to tell me what to do, and believe me I ran a course of destruction through my home town and my first college town that ended up in several arrests and convictions. Longest stint in the slammer was only about a week, but it left an indelible mark. I have a friend who Trump set free from the federal prison system that had done the better part of 7 years in solitary. Of course they have a euphemism for it - "special housing" or SHU. He says it was a nightmare. I believe him and I'm also claustrophobic. I would have killed myself after a week, and I don't think that makes me a wimp.

More to the point, that's why I know that "white (male) privilege" exists. I've dodged so many arrests - AND beatdowns - due to my innocent seeming blue eyed blonde nature and "gift of the gab" (I have in fact kissed the Blarney Stone back in teh 80s). I saw what happened to black and brown dudes in my position and it wasn't good. Meanwhile I got along fine with the "trustie" cholos (I speak fluent Spanish, which helps here in Spain too) and was pretty much able to hang out with the black guys too. It was in far West Texas though, so the blacks were a minority and it wasn't federal prison. No Aryan Brotherhood shit.

Back to your story - why did you embrace anarchism and criminality so late in life? Most of us are the opposite. I have a wife, dog and kids now. Have since I was in my mid 40s. That would be the end of it all, no matter how tempting it was to go to Occupy events and fuck shit up back in the 2007-2011 era.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 7:35 utc | 203

You all will be glad to know that your Trumpcon got the Guaido Venzuelan vote and anti-Castro Cuban vote in Florida, the dumbest state in the imperial universe.

That's called karma dear Circe, lest we forget about Zelaya-Honduras-Queen of Chaos. We could add Haiti to that toxic mix. But you're right, the dumbest state, home to all the contras of the universe.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 4 2020 7:39 utc | 204

Circe #200

Trump wants to steal the election. Period!

Russians back Biden, Madcow goes berserk.

You just can't trust those cunning Russkies. They fake their Trump support thingy in 2016 just so they can get Biden and Harris in for 2020. They had this planned all along and the USA deep state are planted with Russian commies. Podesta must have known this all along.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 4 2020 7:39 utc | 205

I'm sorry for the over schadenfreude, but the US Deep State color revolutionalising America would be hilariously ironic to us on the outside.

Posted by: Parabolic | Nov 4 2020 7:42 utc | 206

So was that Trump declaring early victory?

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 7:53 utc | 207

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 7:53 utc | 207

Yup. Exactly as predicted. Feeling even more confident about the description I laid out re: what is about to happen until Friday.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 7:57 utc | 208

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 7:53 utc | 207

Yes. Exactly as I called it. Trump knows that the perception of a win is good enough for his followers. He, and the Republican machine, will now do everything possible to prevent any dissolution of his PERCEIVED victory. Many of us (not jackrabbit who predicted, stupidly, a Trump blowout) saw this coming.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 8:01 utc | 209

@207 Smith If I were Trump I'd be reasonably confident right now.

He has to lose both North Carolina and Georgia to lose from here, and he is ahead (barely, but ahead) in both.

Basically, it comes down to this: so far Biden can only be confident in flipping Arizona, and that alone isn't enough to win the Presidency for him.

Georgia and North Carolina are his last hopes for further inroads on Trump viz 2016, and Biden is behind in both.

Baring overnight voter fraud on a massive scale it looks to me that Trump will win

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 4 2020 8:03 utc | 210

Georgia is going to Biden, around 500'000 votes to be added.
North Carolina goes to Trump (the counting seems to be finished)

=
Biden would stand at 254 eleectoral votes
Trump 228

Then we have Pennsylvania where pro-Biden areas have not been counted yet. Lets assume Biden win PA that will be another +20 meaning Biden will reach 274 electoral votes.

Then we have Michigan, same here, pro-biden areas have not been counted yet. That is another +16 to Biden. Meaning he will have 290 electoral votes.

Its over for Trump.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 8:10 utc | 211

Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 4 2020 7:35 utc | 203 I have a friend who Trump set free from the federal prison system that had done the better part of 7 years in solitary.

I spent a total of around 3 years in solitary - one stretch of two years, three and a half months. Not totally solitary, of course. You can talk to cells near you, the trustees, etc. I've always been used to living alone, not having much contact with other people. I'm perfectly adapted for "social distancing". LOL

"No Aryan Brotherhood shit."

Yup. I got along with many blacks in prison, and a few white guys. But I avoided getting too friendly with anyone. The big trick in prison is not to ally with anyone if you can avoid it, and look not worth bothering in the first place. Having someone look out for you without demanding anything in return is useful, however, as long as it's just because they happen to respect your non-alignment.

"why did you embrace anarchism and criminality so late in life?"

I think I've mentioned this before here. Started out in high school as an Ayn Rand Objectivist. Went in the Army, went to Vietnam, got out. Discovered The Libertarian Connection, a zine, where I was introduced to the concept of anarchism. Had to figure out which one - limited state or anarchism - was correct. Reasoned out an economic reason (the state is a coercive monopoly), so came down on anarchism's side as a right-wing free-market anarchist. Many other influences: Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson, William S. Burroughs, and more, influenced me towards more individualist anarchism. Bad work history and experiences - underemployed, unemployed, on welfare, homeless on occasion. Turned me sour on society over time. Decided to study terrorism and guerrilla war with an eye to conducting my own "revolution". In short, like the movie "The Network": I was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it any more. Robbed two banks, got caught, nine year sentence. Out in 2001. Five years supervised release.

Prison was good for me in the end. Spent my time reconsidering my philosophy in detail. Formed a foundation which has not failed me yet. Have only enhanced it over the last twenty years.

My philosophy now is based on individualist anarchism a la Max Stirner, tempered by an attraction to what I call "radical Transhumanism". I have principles, but no morality or ethics, and I reject "right vs wrong" in favor of "correct vs incorrect". I distinguish what is "correct" behavior based on what would make long-term economic sense in a rational society. But since we don't live in a rational society, I have a parallel view of "correct" behavior which is almost the exact opposite of that and everyone else's view of "right and wrong".

Needless to say, this makes me "interesting". As an example, my role models in life tend to be comic book and movie villains. I like to refer to myself as "a combination of Star Trek's Mr. Spock - and Heath Ledger's Joker." LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 8:34 utc | 212

@_K_C_ #135

"That part isn't really that controversial. But he only took an interest in BLM in about mid-July."

Still waiting for evidence of Soros funding autonomous street protests. The National BLM is an astroturf organization. May be they took money from Soros but the national org has no relation to the actual autonomous street protests. Do you know why? It's because they are spontaneous and anarchist in nature and thus have no hierarchy or structural organization to receive donations. Unless Soros was standing on street corners handing out cash to random protestors all over the country the claim of him supporting BLM protests is pure and utter bullshit and should not find comfort on an intelligent blog such as this.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 8:44 utc | 213

@William Gruff #137

"There is no "left" in America, including BLM and antifa blackshirts"

My ignorant friend, antifa is an activity, not a political party, group, club or org. Anti-fascists are members of their respective communities exercising group self-defense. Please stop repeating corporate media and government propaganda.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 8:52 utc | 214

So they just stop counting and just left it like that for Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania?

What kind of shitshow is this? Now both sides have grounds to claim frauds.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 8:55 utc | 215

2016 election
Trump 306 electoral votes
Clinton 232 electoral votes

Right now
Biden 238
Trump 213

Doubtful if Trump will get any more electoral votes than that?

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 8:57 utc | 216

@Russ #143

"...I saw what frauds all self-alleged internet "anarchists" were about the cancer ("growth") economy and about intrinsically authoritarian hierarchical technology."

So they weren't actually anarchists. How does that reflect poorly on actual anti-authoritarians? Some idiots were playing anarchist cosplay and now you know that all anarchist are like this? Really?

"After that it wasn't the slightest surprise how almost all self-proclaimed "anarchists" ran home to statist-authoritarian mama the second the "Covid"-spewing TV gave them their marching orders."

Once again, this describes non-anarchist behavior. This proves nothing about the state of anarchist thought and activity in 2020 USA.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 9:01 utc | 217

What I find interesting is that Arizona is already declared won by Biden despite about only 80% votes count and very, very low turn-out.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 9:05 utc | 218

@Jezabeel #160

"Both sides mischaracterize the other so badly.
The Republicans think the Dems are anarchist left wing liberals - when in actual fact they are the US arm of global paedophilia/Satanick population control
The Democrats think the Reps are stupid white people, but under Trump they vote for what they see as the anti-establishment dude who reflects their total lack of faith in institutions/media etc."

What's a Satanick? Is that like a demonic Santa Claus? Why are you wasting our time here with your preposterously humorous comments?

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 9:07 utc | 219

@Russ #164

"On the contrary, it's self-evident that vermin which chooses to believe the MSM lies are nothing but the lowest most vile dregs ever."

What the hell are you referring to? It's not anarchists. In fact, I challenge you to show one example of an anarchist that "believe[s] the MSM lies". That's a contradiction in terms.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 9:12 utc | 220

@211 Zanon Trump is going to win Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, which leaves him 11 short of a win.

So he can win either North Carolina or Georgia and he will win. He can lose one and still win.

Biden is toast.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 4 2020 9:12 utc | 221

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 8:57 utc | 216 Doubtful if Trump will get any more electoral votes than that?

He can if he wins the states where he is currently leading.

He's leading in Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Together they total 77 Electoral Votes which, with his current 213, will give him over 270.

His lead is comfortable in Michigan and Wisconsin, around 5%, close in Georgia and North Carolina at around 2%. Pennsylvania he has a huge lead - but only 65% of the votes have reported. But they have 20 votes, so if he takes PA and three other states, he's in. If he doesn't get Pennsylvania, he may have a problem - he'll need four of the five remaining states. That will drag this down to the wire - which is why Pennsylvania is so important.

And Pennsylvania is messed up. They're late reporting, they have 400,000 mail-in votes to count, and they're doing it in an convention hall with new equipment and new people under social distancing rules. It's going to be a disaster.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 9:25 utc | 222

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 9:12 utc | 220

He's talking about me. He thinks because I accept the virus as dangerous and advocate mask wearing, etc., that I'm some weenie kowtowing to the MSM. He's an idiot. Or more precisely - some kind of reformed Maoist. He's a Trump mama's boy thinking he sees the reality of the world via Trump's blessing.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 9:28 utc | 223

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 8:55 utc | 215 So they just stop counting and just left it like that for Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania?

I don't know. AP hasn't updated their figures in quite a while and the reporting levels seem to be frozen. Has everyone just decided to go to bed and resume in the morning. That's messed up.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 9:32 utc | 224

@Richard Steven Hack #223

I've worked in the disease surveillance field for several years now tracking WNV, plague, hanta etc. I know how easily pathogens can spread and I chose to cover my face based on my work experience and research. I suppose that makes me a weenie, too!

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 9:35 utc | 225

AP current report this morning:


By early Wednesday, neither candidate had the 270 Electoral College votes needed to win. Trump made premature claims of victories in several key states and said he would take the election to the Supreme Court to stop the counting. It was unclear exactly what legal action he might try to pursue.
ADVERTISEMENT

Vote tabulations routinely continue beyond Election Day, and states largely set the rules for when the count has to end. In presidential elections, a key point is the date in December when presidential electors met. That’s set by federal law.

Several states allow mailed-in votes to be accepted after Election Day, as long as they were postmarked by Tuesday. That includes Pennsylvania, where ballots postmarked by Nov 3 can be accepted if they arrive up to three days after the election.

Trump suggested those ballots shouldn’t be counted. But Biden, briefly appearing in front of supporters in Delaware, urged patience, saying the election “ain’t over until every vote is counted, every ballot is counted.

“It’s not my place or Donald Trump’s place to declare who’s won this election,” Biden said. “That’s the decision of the American people.”

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf tweeted that his state had over 1 million ballots to be counted and that he “promised Pennsylvanians that we would count every vote and that’s what we’re going to do.”

Legal experts were dubious of Trump’s declaration.

“I do not see a way that he could go directly to the Supreme Court to stop the counting of votes. There could be fights in specific states, and some of those could end up at the Supreme Court. But this is not the way things work,” said Rick Hasen, a professor of law and political science at the University of California-Irvine.

And this:


Democrat Joe Biden’s campaign says it will fight any efforts by President Donald Trump’s campaign to go to the U.S. Supreme Court to prevent ballots from being tabulated.

In a statement sent before 4 a.m. Wednesday, Biden campaign manager Jen O’Malley Dillon called Trump’s statement that he will “be going to the U.S. Supreme Court” and that he wants “all voting to stop” “outrageous, unprecedented and incorrect.”

O’Malley Dillon says the Biden campaign has “legal teams standing by ready to deploy to resist that effort.” And she says, “They will prevail.”

So it seems that both sides recognize the importance of Pennsylvania and the mail-in vote and are preparing to start the legal fight.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 9:39 utc | 226

Yeah Right

Trump is going to win Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania,

How could he possibly win those states? Majority of Biden votes has not be counted in those states
Check
https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2020/general-results

Also I see now that Wisconsin is just about to turn blue (Biden)


Richard Steven Hack

Check the map https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2020/general-results , click on these states you mention, and put the cursor over the counties that have not been counted yet.
Majority of those with big population is turning to Biden heavily.

I guess this is why Trump already raised the issue of fraud, which looks kind of silly but I guess he is getting desperate.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 9:51 utc | 227

Wisconsin is swinging to Biden:

Biden 1,551,268 49.29%
Trump 1,549,127 49.22%

3,147,142 votes counted. Estimated >95% in

According to tweets, Green Bay is not reported yet - went for Clinton in 2016.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 9:54 utc | 228

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 9:51 utc | 227 Majority of those with big population is turning to Biden heavily.

Isn't that kind of what one would expect? Larger urban populations tend to be Democratic, rural Republican, depending on the overall character of the state, of course.

As I said before, based on Trump's leads he could win this. However, as it gets down to the wire, it's likely Pennsylvania is going to be the decider. If Biden gets those twenty votes, Trump will need to get the other four states - and Wisconsin is slipping toward Biden. So the other three states are no longer important. It's Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. If Biden keeps his lead in Wisconsin, it's down to Pennsylvania. Trump only stays in the race if Pennsylvania goes for Trump.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 10:01 utc | 229

Correction: Since Wisconsin has 10 Electoral Votes and the other three states other than Pennsylvania have 15 or 16 each, they remain important depending on how Pennsylvania goes.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 10:10 utc | 230

@Piotr Berman, "Yet the latest wave of Republican ads links Biden to Communists"

So what. In modern American context the word 'communist' is just a swear word.

Ds represent global finance and agitate/zombify their potential voters by amplifying bullshit ethnic grievances. This is pretty much the opposite of what Communists do. Ds are American far-right.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 4 2020 10:12 utc | 231

Biden widen the popular vote - now 49,9% vs Trump at 48,4%. Small growth but significant where this election is going I guess.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 10:13 utc | 232

Yeah, this kind of pause reporting then suddenly trickling down Biden votes doesn't sit well with me.

This reeks of fraud.

Posted by: Smith | Nov 4 2020 10:50 utc | 233

anonymous | Nov 4 2020 9:01 utc | 217

"...I saw what frauds all self-alleged internet "anarchists" were about the cancer ("growth") economy and about intrinsically authoritarian hierarchical technology."

So they weren't actually anarchists. How does that reflect poorly on actual anti-authoritarians? Some idiots were playing anarchist cosplay and now you know that all anarchist are like this? Really?

"After that it wasn't the slightest surprise how almost all self-proclaimed "anarchists" ran home to statist-authoritarian mama the second the "Covid"-spewing TV gave them their marching orders."

Once again, this describes non-anarchist behavior. This proves nothing about the state of anarchist thought and activity in 2020 USA.

I was referring to my time years ago where I was initially nonplussed seeing self-alleged online "anarchists" cheering on inherently hierarchical, ecocidal engineering stunts like space travel, fracking etc., and how it's no surprise that today they serve as junior deputy "Covid" propagandists, relaying what they receive from the TV news.

If that doesn't describe you, then I wasn't talking about you. If it does...

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 11:05 utc | 234

anonymous @214: "Anti-fascists are members of their respective communities exercising group self-defense."

You have obviously never even organized a hotdog stand at the local flea market, much less a community exercising group self-defense militia. Order does not spontaneously coalesce out of disorder. That would violate the Laws of Thermodynamics, and no matter how rad you imagine yourself to be you will not be breaking those particular laws. Organizing even seemingly trivial actions takes work, and knowing the Millennial work ethic somebody has to pay for that work or it doesn't get done.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 11:24 utc | 235

@232 Zanon "Biden widen the popular vote - now 49,9% vs Trump at 48,4%. Small growth but significant where this election is going I guess."

Well, there goes your credibility....

The popular vote is irrelevant.
A deliberate feature of the system, not a flaw.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 4 2020 11:25 utc | 236

Anyone remember watching the results roll in for the elections in Mexico in 2012? Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO) was way ahead all day but at the 11th hour (literally, it was 11:00pm) Nieto "surged" by millions of votes, and in some voting districts AMLO's vote counts actually started going down, not as percentages but in absolute numbers. Of course, Mexico had just introduced American-made receipt-less and unauditable electronic voting machines, so there was no physical evidence of election fraud, but everyone knows what really happened.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 11:37 utc | 237

I just woke from a great night's sleep and have not turned on the TV as I don't have one, but I have also not scanned the headlines yet this morning. Did Howie Hawkins win?

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 11:40 utc | 238

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 11:24 utc | 235

Since no one said anything about a "militia", that was a content-less post. So we know you don't like anarchic organizations and appear to be ignorant of how anarchic organizations have worked effectively in various countries in the past. Or perhaps you're under the misapprehension that anarchic organizations don't have leaders. They certainly can. What they don't have is rulers.

Not that I'm holding up any current anarchic group as an example, as I don't know any. I suspect neither do you. But I know they're worked in the past in various places.

In any event, your post is non-responsive to the allegation that antifa groups are frequently anarchic and have little or nothing to do with Soros funding, despite right-wing paranoia. Provide evidence of the contrary, if you can. The one article posted in this thread I have shown to be pretty underwhelming as evidence.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 11:44 utc | 239

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 11:40 utc | 238

Heh, no. The Libs appear to be getting their usual 1.1% of the vote and the Greens their .2%. At least that's where they were when the election was apparently "frozen" a few hours ago. At least that's how it appears based on the AP not having updated anything in a couple hours.

CNN hasn't called nine states: Alaska; Arizona; Georgia; Michigan; Maine; Nevada; North Carolina; Pennsylvania; Wisconsin

Looking at Twitter, the arguments are starting to rise about "vote fraud". This is going to turn ugly if credible results aren't turn in within the next 24-48 hours.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 11:52 utc | 240

Well, I might as well go to bed if the election is going to stay frozen for another three or four hours while the East Coast wakes up, followed by hours and hours of piecemeal vote counts from the five swing states.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 4 2020 11:56 utc | 241

Yeah Right

Yes I didnt claim popular vote is necessary just pointing out the obvious.
My credibility is fine, I guess what you said below wont age that well though:

Trump is going to win Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania,

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 11:59 utc | 242

Richard Steven Hack @239

"Anarchic organizations" may or may not have rulers, or even tape measures (don't want to get tied down by what someone else dictates the units of measure to be), but they always have organizers. See, it's in the label: "anarchic organizations".

"Community exercising group self-defense" is just a politically correct way to say "militia". They are the same thing, only the long form version is a bunch of linguistic squirming to avoid using a nice and concise word that has negative connotations among self-anointed "beautiful people"... California Über Alles, basically.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 12:01 utc | 243

Trump (likely to) lose Michigan.

“Those votes are by mail for the most part. We believe that is the composition of them. We know they're coming in a Democratic county. Democrats have been voting heavily by mail,” Mattingly said. “What I'm trying to lay out for you is this: Donald Trump was ahead by 212,000 votes about 30 minutes ago. Right now, he's ahead by 64,000 votes.”

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/index.html

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 12:03 utc | 244

Richard Steven Hack @240: "This is going to turn ugly if credible results aren't turn in within the next 24-48 hours."

We can certainly hope.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 12:05 utc | 245

So they stopped counting votes in such a crucial election ? It can mean only one thing- voter fraud. Gruff @ 237 has it right.

Posted by: Down South | Nov 4 2020 12:11 utc | 246

@251 Down South

They didn't stop counting dimwit. The counties where mail-in votes were held for last are all heavily Democratic. They should have counted them first so Trump couldn't spew his fascist garbage prematurely early this a.m.

Biden is going to win Michigan and Wisconsin next. Pennsylvania will take more time.

Nevada is leaning for Biden. If he gets 3 out of these four, Biden wins.

I'm reading some really uninformed crap from your ilk.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 4 2020 12:57 utc | 247

c1ue @151

The turnout this year will be the largest in multiple decades.
_________________________________

yes it will be a record and that is why Trump will win
Trump has done more to sucker people back into the duoply than any other president and for that he will be rewarded.

But nevertheless the effect in 2016 and now in 2020 of polls showing an easy win for Democrat candidate has been to make some lazy potential Democrats complacent and not bother to vote while having the opposite effect on the Trump voters who all are convinced their vote is needed.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 4 2020 13:20 utc | 248

Eventually, Biden will throw in the towel and concede - probably by end of this week, and the kabuki theater will have played out EXACTLY as planned. Give everyone hope that Trump's gonna be run out of the White House only to see an almost exact repeat of 2016.
_______________________________

Looks that way to me. too.

Posted by: jinn | Nov 4 2020 13:27 utc | 249

@oldhippie 23 "When I was in public school in the 1960s the only subjects taken seriously were sports and discipline."

You forgot revised history and anticommunism.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Nov 4 2020 13:37 utc | 250

It should be painfully obvious by now that the goal of electoral politics in the US - by those who manage it - is to maintain a balance of power between two revolutionary extremes. Of course, balances of power never last forever. It may be instructive to look at the fate of the Concert of Europe, which collapsed when its primary beneficiary (the British Empire) no longer saw it as useful.

Comparisons to professional wrestling are often made as well. It's important to keep in mind the goal of professional wrestling, which is to make as much money as possible. It's a business, after all. There are certain "angles" - narratives - that are marketed, but they don't always work out as expected. Sometimes the audience boos at the face and cheers for the heel. What happens then? A new angle, more favorable to the audience, is adopted. The show must go on.

In both 2016 and this year, Trump has either been trying to play the heel or at least is being used as the heel. Why would that be? To diminish and defuse the revolutionary "right". The revolutionary "left" is hardly any threat these days. Smashing storefront windows and setting police cars on fire does not a revolution make. On the other hand, the revolutionary "right" routinely organizes itself into heavily armed militias. And there's been brewing opposition in the military, mainly from the "right", against the establishment's foreign-policy objectives. It would seem, then, that the "right" is the bigger threat than the "left" these days - to the establishment.

Whether Trump leaves office next year or in 2025, if he's not prosecuted for anything afterwards (notwithstanding pardoning himself), then one can only conclude that he was a part of the kayfabe from the beginning. But to paraphrase his one-time opponent, what difference does it really make?

Posted by: Cynica | Nov 4 2020 14:04 utc | 251

I voted for Howie Hawkins / Angela Walker
but I am rooting for Trump in the hopes he turns "Democratic Party"
into a trivia question.

"Crash and burn", DNC !

---

Rooting, the word, has a curious origin, it is from a baseball context.
I just looked it up.
Rooting rhymes with tooting and thus a new definition was born.
Some writer (?) in 1875 substituted "rootin tootin" when referring to "noisy and rambunctious" baseball team supporters.

Posted by: librul | Nov 4 2020 14:33 utc | 252

Whether Trump leaves office next year or in 2025, if he's not prosecuted for anything afterwards (notwithstanding pardoning himself), then one can only conclude that he was a part of the kayfabe from the beginning.

__________________________________
Trump is not only part of the Kayfabe, trump created the Kayfabe Before trump it was fake but it was not kayfabe fake

In other words, trump introduced the concept of the face and the heel to American politics where trump would play the heel.
Prior to trump an election involved two faces. Trump explained to the establishment that a contest with two faces was lame and boring. Trump explained that a contest with a face and a heel would bring in the fans in record numbers and as we can see today trump was right.


Posted by: jinn | Nov 4 2020 14:39 utc | 253

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr | Nov 3 2020 19:30 utc | 37

Yes, "éventuel" in French is used in the same way - that is, to mean it's a matter of events, whereas in English "eventual" means it's only a matter of time.

Of course, all languages are imprecise when you get right down to it. Still it's interesting to see how Trump, for example, uses language. Just today in his unprecedented White House rally - for that's what it was, complete with the TV-show style announcer yelling 'Doooo-naaaald Truuuump!!' - he said something like "this has never happened before in history." He's always saying things like that. It has the effect of removing everything from its historical context and putting us in one where anything can happen. This despite the fact that if Americans had any notion of history, they would have seen that Trump is nothing new at all and not "voted him in."

Posted by: Gene Poole | Nov 4 2020 14:49 utc | 254

@Smith #233

"Yeah, this kind of pause reporting then suddenly trickling down Biden votes doesn't sit well with me. This reeks of fraud."


It most certainly does. This country has a long history of persistent election fraud like voter caging, gerrymandering, voter intimidation and the purging of voter rolls to name a few. Usually it's the Republicans but the Kennedy election had it's issues.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 15:30 utc | 255

@Russ #234

People say a lot of things on the Internet. How does your experience with non-anarchists have anything to do with anarchists? Why make proclamations about alleged anarchists when you weren't actually dealing with anarchists. Just because a cat crawls in an oven and has kittens don't make'em biscuits.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 15:36 utc | 256

@William Gruff #235

I see. So we're ignoring 100 years of anti-fascist history and making new definitions based on what, your perception of what defines anti-fascist activity? Your attempt to equate anti-fascist community self-defense with the term militia is at best ignorant and at worst dishonest.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 15:46 utc | 257

@William Gruff #243

You type and words appear on the screen but they have no meaning.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 15:50 utc | 258

@anonymous

Why would an anarchist get upset over fraud in a system that they consider to be inherently illegitimate to begin with?

Otherwise, it seems like a better strategy to not get hung up over others' semantics and instead try to make one's points using others' semantics. If the goal is actually communication, of course.

Posted by: Cynica | Nov 4 2020 16:17 utc | 259

@Cynica #259

"Why would an anarchist get upset over fraud in a system that they consider to be inherently illegitimate to begin with?"

I'm sure I don't know what you mean. Can you clarify?

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 4 2020 16:25 utc | 260

@anonymous #260

It seems quite clear. Anarchists should logically not respect the result of any US election. So it should logically not matter to them whether things like "voter caging, gerrymandering, voter intimidation and the purging of voter rolls to name a few" happen during US elections or not.

Posted by: Cynica | Nov 4 2020 16:34 utc | 261

Funny thing on CNN site past hours, their headline claims there is a tight race and they still have Biden at 224 and Trump 213 electoral votes, funny since Fox have Biden at 238 which they have had for like 5 hours already.
https://edition.cnn.com/
Surely CNN realize their side have already won?

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 17:06 utc | 262

@ Cynica | Nov 4 2020 16:17 utc | 259... thanks for stating that.. i sure appreciate your participation here - however limited it is... sometimes reading a persons comments, it is like a drink of cool water.. that is how your posts generally come across to me..

Posted by: james | Nov 4 2020 17:31 utc | 263

Its on,

4 ‘Trump supporters’ stabbed after election night fight near White House – DC police
https://www.rt.com/usa/505566-stabbing-white-house-election/

This goes back to what I said earlier, these people only looking for violence even when their side just won the election. With Biden as the president they can continue to do this freely now, no Trump on Twitter to criticize this violence from now on.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 4 2020 17:46 utc | 264

anonymous | Nov 4 2020 15:36 utc | 256

"People say a lot of things on the Internet. How does your experience with non-anarchists have anything to do with anarchists?"

I think of a guy I met some years ago who when I first met him was wearing a "This T-Shirt Kills Fascists". I rolled my eyes and assumed he was a poser. Guess who wears a mask everywhere, propagandizes for this vileness, and had his lawn festooned with Biden placards.

As for other self-alleged "anarchists", most of them seem pretty gung ho about the intrinsically hierarchical Earth-destroying economic civilization. So far as I can see they offer no alternative to the death machine, just as we have "leftist" commenters here touting how wonderfully earth-killing the Chinese "alternative" is.

It's clear there's no alternative within the framework of an inherently ecocidal civilization, and most of all no alternative among its fake-competing ideologies which are nothing but squabbling among the necropolitans, nothing but squabbling over whether it's 36 or 37 angels that dance on the head of a dagger in Gaia's heart.

"Why make proclamations about alleged anarchists when you weren't actually dealing with anarchists. Just because a cat crawls in an oven and has kittens don't make'em biscuits."

So you oppose the state and most of all its latest and ultimate "Covid" gambit. Glad to hear it.

Posted by: Russ | Nov 4 2020 17:47 utc | 265

anonymous @257

You don't even know what fascism is, so how can you know anything about "anti-fascist history"?

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 4 2020 18:36 utc | 266

teri,

Good points. Firmed up positions reminds me nothing more than middle-school debate club, where you learn to double-down on every lie that comes to your head. Remember standing at the podium, trying to think.... that was my bad, I have learned. That's most internet boards now.

As for b and his insistence that this is some kind of Color Revolution coming from the Soros and the left wing, it is so laughable if it weren't so random and surprisingly bereft of sound historical analysis.... Here is what happened last night - it was an incomplete FIX, laughably obvious election rigging.... what fell down is the mailed-in ballots that were sitting there and couldn't just be fed into the giant maw that is the farce that is vote tabulation now.

The CIA and their kissing cousins, the Mossad, practice this shit all over the world and in particular, in Central and South America, since they now control the voting machines and more importantly, the central tabulating software where algos can be installed to turn an initial lead by the left-leaning forces into a late collapse. Watching last nights results turns into a rout, I saw the playbook right there - CIA/Mossad make sure three things happen- two are practical and the third is psychological, maybe the most important:

First, the Fix has to be fluid, horse-racey stuff so that the cowed electorate will agree to play this same rigged game at a later date. (Trump cant just suddenly have a Red Wave when everyone was predicting the Blue Wave)

Second- the Fix has to make sure that it matches the vote totals - you cant' just add votes, you have to flip them (so it isn't too suspicious) - This fix reminds me of the machine selection from 2004 Bush/Kerry - the War Hero had a 3 1/2 lead from the voters, the machines gave the Dry-Drunk Zero a 3 1/2 win. (RIP Exit polls)

Third - The "Win" has to be beyond credibility, leaving the left-wing forces psychologically demoralized, scared, divided - Upside is that the right-wing death squads are lurking, bolstered, empowered.

Where did it fall down? Opening ballots, looking at signatures, counting votes in large open-air places with real people watching (lawyers on both sides) and suddenly you cant run the Algos.

Counting one vote at a time is really hard to make systematically corrupt. I expect places like Penn, Mich, and Wis. to fix this glitch for the next Fix so that it goes smoothly.

Posted by: Kurt ZUMDIECK | Nov 4 2020 19:04 utc | 267

William Gruff @266--

In the Hudson-Jay podcast I linked to yesterday, they agreed what controls the Outlaw US Empire would best be described as Financialized Fascism. There's supposed to be a transcript made and posted in the near future that I'll keep an eye out for since their discussion was done at a rapid-fire pace with quite a lot of overtalking which made it difficult to follow. I as wrote on the other thread, several state outcomes are within the threshold that automatically triggers a recount; so, an "official" result won't be announced for awhile.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 4 2020 20:02 utc | 268

@ karlof1.. thanks for your various notes! they're helpful..

Posted by: james | Nov 4 2020 20:07 utc | 269

@Cynica #261

First, at what point did I declare myself to be an anarchist?
Second, what you're saying is that I can't study history? I can't be aware of my surroundings?
It sounds like your saying that if I were an anarchist I wouldn't be able to have an opinion outside of anarchism?

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 1:12 utc | 270

@William Gruff #266

"You don't even know what fascism is, so how can you know anything about "anti-fascist history"?"

I'm sorry. I forgot that we are old friends and you know all about me. My bad.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 1:19 utc | 271

"I think of a guy I met some years ago who when I first met him was wearing a "This T-Shirt Kills Fascists"."

Sounds like he's a Woody Guthrie fan. My point is that you are describing folks you met throughout your life that seemed to be anarchists then they acted in a way you deemed non-anarchistic so now all anarchists are poseurs? I still think you haven't met any actual anarchists. We should also discriminate between left anarchists (historical libertarians) and right anarchists (Libertarian Party/anarcho-capitalists). The ones in the streets protesting seem to be left anarchists.

"So you oppose the state and most of all its latest and ultimate "Covid" gambit. Glad to hear it."

Not sure how you reached this conclusion. In an earlier post I described how I see the pandemic based on my years of work in disease surveillance. I know how to protect myself from deadly pathogens and it doesn't require the gov to inform me or tell me what to do.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 1:33 utc | 272

Previous post for @Russ #265

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 5 2020 2:25 utc | 273

Soros funded? Anarchist riots? I see this website is for tin-foil cranks now. Tell Soros I want my checks

Posted by: B has lost it | Nov 5 2020 2:55 utc | 274

@anonymous #270

First, at what point did I declare myself to be an anarchist?

Based on your earlier comments, it seemed like you are an anarchist. But you make a fair point. So will you declare yourself to be an anarchist?

Second, what you're saying is that I can't study history? I can't be aware of my surroundings? It sounds like your [sic] saying that if I were an anarchist I wouldn't be able to have an opinion outside of anarchism?

In no way did this commenter's earlier statements imply that you can't study history or be aware of your surroundings. It's frankly baffling how you can claim otherwise. So your response may be an attempt at misdirection, which would mean you're not engaging in this discussion in good faith.

Posted by: Cynica | Nov 5 2020 12:53 utc | 275

"Tell Soros I want my checks"

Useful idiots who do the actual rioting don't get paid. They are the product, not the workforce. It is the Internet agitators who cook up the Twitter memes who get the paychecks. It is the "event organizers" who create "buzz" through "guerrilla marketing" on the local community college campus and at the local skate parks who get the cash. You know, the ones who are super enthusiastic about the "protest" at the campus pub, and maybe even have some free event-themed t-shirts "that a friend made" to give away, but are nowhere to be found when the Kristallnacht glass starts breaking and the peaceful fires start erupting?

Don't be silly. Nobody pays cattle to get them to go to the slaughterhouse.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2020 13:38 utc | 276

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2020 13:38 utc | 276

Yes, I remember it well from the '60s:

"Never listen to your local FBI plant."

"Never listen to the guy that says 'Hey, let's throw rocks at the cops.'"

What a strange time that was, I think we are getting into that territory again.

There are always provocateurs looking for a show, some excitement, and if they get paid so much the better. It's just like the Internet.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 5 2020 14:54 utc | 277

Gruff @ 118 I'd say you've bought into the media narrative yourself: https://fair.org/home/corporate-media-reverse-reality-by-blaming-blm-protesters-for-everything/

Posted by: Gene Poole | Nov 5 2020 15:49 utc | 278

Gene Poole @278: "I'd say you've bought into the media narrative yourself"

Perhaps, but not likely. I don't even have a TV. I don't even know of any YouTube "influencers" other than perhaps Jimmy Dore.

There are no protests at night, so your example from FAIR is itself delusional. Entertaining the notion that there can be a debate over whether the "events" in question are "protests" or "riots" is indicative of mass media personnel who have consumed their own false narratives until they no longer even know what is real or just spin. Apparently FAIR has been caught up in this break from reality as well. It's kind of interesting that the eyecatch for their article claiming that riots should be labelled as protests is an image from an obvious riot, doubtless one that they think should be called a protest by the mass media.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2020 21:16 utc | 279

Posted by: Cynica | Nov 4 2020 16:34 utc | 261 Anarchists should logically not respect the result of any US election. So it should logically not matter to them whether things like "voter caging, gerrymandering, voter intimidation and the purging of voter rolls to name a few" happen during US elections or not.

That does *not* logically follow. Anarchists recognize the duplicity of the state and have no problems calling it out in specific examples. I am an example of that. I do *not* care about the outcome of the election - other than I want Trump gone so I don't have to read about his stupid tweets any more - and I still recognize when corrupt political party members are disenfranchising the voters - even if the voters are idiots for not recognizing this and stopping voting until their *own system* is revamped.

Stop trying to educate people in logic when you don't know the meaning of the word.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Nov 5 2020 23:25 utc | 280

@Cynica #275

I appreciate your measured response. No, I won't declare myself anarchist. How about left-leaning anti-authoritarian? ;)

"Anarchists should logically not respect the result of any US election. So it should logically not matter to them whether things like "voter caging, gerrymandering, voter intimidation and the purging of voter rolls to name a few" happen during US elections or not."

I seemed to me that you were implying that as an "anarchist" I could/should not have an opinion on US elections. Whether something matters to me is wholly independent from whether or not I believe in it. I can pay attention, keep score and still not believe any of it. My point was that were I to be an anarchist I would still pay attention to politics even though I wouldn't necessarily trust it. Thanks for clarifying.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 6 2020 5:55 utc | 281

@William Gruff #276

"Useful idiots who do the actual rioting don't get paid. They are the product, not the workforce. It is the Internet agitators who cook up the Twitter memes who get the paychecks. It is the "event organizers" who create "buzz" through "guerrilla marketing" on the local community college campus and at the local skate parks who get the cash. You know, the ones who are super enthusiastic about the "protest" at the campus pub, and maybe even have some free event-themed t-shirts "that a friend made" to give away, but are nowhere to be found when the Kristallnacht glass starts breaking and the peaceful fires start erupting? Don't be silly. Nobody pays cattle to get them to go to the slaughterhouse."

Nice attempt at marginalizing an individuals need for self-defense and to fight against perceived injustice. Of course it was Soros pulling the strings because you couldn't possibly conceive of the idea that individuals would want to defend themselves and their community from fascists marching in the streets. Of course you have to come up with some explanation that jives with your worldview otherwise cognitive dissonance would consume you.

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 6 2020 6:11 utc | 282

@Richard Steven Hack #280

It seems some further clarification is in order. For one to complain about things like "voter caging, gerrymandering, voter intimidation and the purging of voter rolls to name a few" would seem to imply that they'd consider an election in the current US political system without those things to be legitimate. Yet anarchists consider the US political system - indeed, all political systems - as oppressive per se and therefore illegitimate per se. In other words, anarchists do not reject political systems as oppressive and illegitimate because they engage in things like gerrymandering, voter intimidation, etc. Their rejection of political systems is fundamental. Logically speaking, then, anarchists should reject the results of all elections in all political systems as illegitimate, even if they are completely free of things like gerrymandering and voter intimidation.

As a point of comparison, consider Marx's statement in Capital that, even if all commodities were exchanged completely according to their values - that is, if the law of value operated perfectly - capitalism would still be exploitative.

That being said, it's entirely possible (logically speaking) for anarchists to recognize corruption within an institution which they consider to be wholly illegitimate - in the sense of the institution not following its self-professed standards. But that really has nothing to do with anarchism itself.

@anonymous #281

It's entirely up to you whether to declare yourself to be an anarchist. However, it's unclear what the difference is between "anarchist" and "left-leaning anti-authoritarian".

Looking back at your earlier post (currently #255), it's possible that you were evaluating the US electoral system by its own standards instead of anarchist or "left-leaning anti-authoritarian" standards. As mentioned above, it's entirely possible for anyone, anarchists etc. included, to evaluate a system for internal consistency - that is, whether the system is following its own rules. That's entirely separate from supporting the system.

Posted by: Cynica | Nov 6 2020 14:34 utc | 283

anonymous @282

There were no fascists marching in the streets of Kenosha, at least not until antifa and BLM showed up to correct that shortage. Except for the ones pretending to fight fascists that do not even exist, there are no fascists in Portland. There were no fascists to be chased out of Philadelphia, but there were some TVs and shoes that needed to be "liberated" from some stores after hours... imprisoned by fascists, I suppose?

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 6 2020 17:01 utc | 284

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 6 2020 17:01 utc | 284

Except for the fact that the BLM is not an anti-fascist movement and never claimed to be so. They're an anti-police violence movement. The far-right militias came on behalf of the police forces.

There is police in Kenosha and Portland, right?

So, the order of the factors is this one: police -> BLM -> right-wing militias.

Posted by: vk | Nov 10 2020 14:07 utc | 285

« previous page

The comments to this entry are closed.