A Weird Election Where The Aftermath May Be More Important Than The Result
Every four years the United States has "the most important election ever" though none of those I remember have really changed anything fundamental.
Today's election is different because the Democrats have threatened to attempt a color-revolution should their candidate not win:
It seems clear that the Democrats will contest the election unless Joe Biden wins an electoral college majority. If Trump wins they will draw out any concession until the last mail in vote is counted and litigated through the last level of jurisdiction. They hope that the accompanying media attention, social media marketing and street action will wear down the support for Donald Trump.
Throughout the last months the required tactics have been tested with Soros funded Black Live Matters protests and anarchist riots in Portland and other cites.
This is, as far as I know, the first election day on which businesses have boarded up their shops because they fear that the election night will be followed by rampages and looting:
Business districts and office buildings in several U.S. cities are boarding up their doors and windows for fear of Election Day unrest and in the days that follow.The sound of sawing, drilling and nailing filled several blocks around the White House and in New York City, including its iconic Macy's flagship department store.
Police said Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills will be closed down completely on Tuesday, following a large pro-Trump demonstration in the shopping district over the weekend.
Federal authorities planned to extend the perimeter fencing around the White House by several blocks, encompassing the same area fenced out during this summer's protests against racism and police brutality.
Why all this fuss? The difference between the two major parties is slim. Whoever wins will be constrained in his policies to fit the general imperial trends the U.S. follows.
It is funny though how little we know about the most likely outcome. The polls have been more often wrong than right and now show a tight race in those places that are really important. The final result may depend on a few hundred mail-in ballots in some county in Pennsylvania. Or there could also be a landslide in either direction.
My personal hunch is that Trump, who is much less exceptional than the media portrait him, will gain sufficient electoral college votes to stay in office.
If the Democrats react to that as they have planned it is quite possible that the aftermath of the election will be psychologically and historically more important than the election result itself.
It is hard to convey how exceptionally weird this all looks from the outside.
Posted by b on November 3, 2020 at 18:17 UTC | Permalink
next page »Well it is totally anecdotal, but voter turn out in rural southern Missouri is extremely heavy. This region is probably 70% pro Trump anyway and obviously popular vote doesn’t necessarily affect electoral college vote, but it appears that the rumors that this election cycle it is the Republicans who have been doing a lot of get out the vote work may have some truth to them.
Posted by: J Swift | Nov 3 2020 18:23 utc | 2
I'm in Florida now but I lived in Greece for nearly 20 years and acutely aware how weird this all looks from the outside. It's easier to see at a distance than it is up close sometimes b.
Posted by: Nick | Nov 3 2020 18:27 utc | 3
Biden will win because Trump destroyed the US economy.. Remember Clinton slogan 1992 'It's the economy, stupid'. The avarege American Joe could give a damn about foreign policy. Not matter if Trump is lesser bellicose of two
Posted by: Nick | Nov 3 2020 18:31 utc | 5
Colour revolution run by the demonazis? What if the repugnants respond? That would create excellent cover for the Biden carpetbaggers and the Harris switch.
I want to see a tied race and maximum internal disarray and Supreme Court 'decision' :)
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 3 2020 18:39 utc | 6
The color revolution playbook starts with denying the legitimacy of the vote. That person is Trump. Attributing a plot for a counterrevolution to anyone else is lying.
That's bad enough but finding something sinister about plans to fight to the last lawyer is just mad dog reaction. The idea that contesting the democratic legitimacy of the Electoral College is somehow monstrous socialism is foaming at the mouth vicious. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Samuel Tilden and Rutherford Hayes, are commies? As ever, the combined inanity and moral squalor of the Trump lovers is astounding.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 3 2020 18:40 utc | 7
Today's election is different because the Democrats have threatened to attempt a color-revolution should their candidate not win:It seems clear that the Democrats will contest the election unless Joe Biden wins an electoral college majority. If Trump wins they will draw out any concession until the last mail in vote is counted and litigated through the last level of jurisdiction. They hope that the accompanying media attention, social media marketing and street action will wear down the support for Donald Trump.
Throughout the last months the required tactics have been tested with Soros funded Black Live Matters protests and anarchist riots in Portland and other cites.
Is this a joke? The Biden campaign has built his coalition on white suburbia, older voters, and a pretty right-leaning electorate. The Democratic Party has moved sharply to the right under his campaign and has in almost no way supported BLM outside of a handful of progressives. I expect when they win they will quickly throw the BLM movement entirely under the bus as they're not really needed.
Posted by: Brian | Nov 3 2020 18:40 utc | 8
Nick
Actually economy is doing better than expected. Even though Covid will contintue to be a threat against economic growth.
"U.S. GDP booms at 33.1% rate in Q3, better than expected"
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/us-gdp-report-third-quarter-2020.html
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 3 2020 18:41 utc | 9
The final result may depend on a few hundred mail-in ballots in some county in Pennsylvania.
One thing certain is that no matter what happens on November 3rd there will be two hard core partisan factions which will insist their guy won, refuse to concede anything, dig in and entrench. From there it’ll be an extra-electoral civil war of propaganda, lawfare-waging and street-fighting to determine, force against force, what occupies the White House.
I must say that whenever I see the phrase "Soros funded", I also expect the see "Koch Brothers funded". Otherwise this is just a partisan singling out of one multi-billionaire who uses his (not very often 'her') money in ways that would be better left unfunded.
Usually I am disappointed though. Soros may be a big bogey man for some, but the Koch brothers and many more fund enterprises every bit as reactionary, undemocratic and often much more right-wing, and should be called out more often.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 18:42 utc | 11
uncle tungsten | Nov 3 2020 18:39 utc | 6
"I want to see a tied race and maximum internal disarray and Supreme Court 'decision' :) "
And then refusal of the loser to accept that decision. Enough of this "supreme court" humbug.
What's with all the articles supporting trump?
In fact, it is Trump who said to be preparing a horde of lawyers to challenge to results. BOTH sides are preparing to challenge the results, and it will probably goes high as the supreme court, yet people keep on only mentioning the Democrats doing that.
Clear bias against the Democrats.
Sad, one more supposedly free and unbiased site that often talks against Democrats but has nothing to offer as to WHY Trump is better choice than the Democrats.
Where the fuck are we supposed to get our real news from, where????
Posted by: Hoyeru | Nov 3 2020 18:43 utc | 13
Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 18:42 utc | 11
I must say that whenever I see the phrase "Soros funded", I also expect the see "Koch Brothers funded".
So far it's indisputable, as far as street action Soros got there the fastest with the mostest. Not what I would've expected until recently, but there it is.
So where are these "militias" who are going to fight for Trump if necessary? God knows in four years he never lifted a finger to organize anything outside government and party.
steven t johnson
It is not Soros backed supporters of Trump that rioted past months all over the US, they are on the left, fringe, weird pro-violence youth that have nothing to do with the left at all, only out there for the kicks of violence and destruction.
Same with the fence they put up around the White house, surely you do not believe those arent placed there to fend off Trump supporters.
Posted by: Zanon | Nov 3 2020 18:48 utc | 15
@Pat Bateman | Nov 3 2020 18:31 utc | 4
Biden by a landslide.That would be even weirder, looking from outside...
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 3 2020 18:49 utc | 16
MSM poll average: tied
JoeG's link: Trump+85K votes with about 1/2 of Election day over.
Biden came in up by 90K votes, so it does look likely that Trump wins Florida.
In addition, JoeG's link shows over 116,000 more Republicans voting vs Democrats have voted thus far. Independents, using the 2016 split - would be Biden+31K
Posted by: c1ue | Nov 3 2020 18:52 utc | 17
It’s very weird in DC. The language around it all:
https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/11/02/these-are-the-protests-happening-around-dc-this-week-3/”> All the protests planned in DC this week
And crazy discussions on https://www.foxnews.com/us/election-day-white-house-demonstrations-zoom-calls-shutdown-dc/“>Zoom meetings. (Surprised one Fox News commenter compared it to Ukraine—maybe people are waking up that this is just neoliberal regime change operation chickens coming home to roost?)
Posted by: catb | Nov 3 2020 18:53 utc | 18
Agree with b rhetorically asking what's the big fuss when both parties are two sides of the same plutocratic, imperialistic coin. The 99% have been so well divided and pitted against each other (even here in these comments) and the 1% are laughing all the way to the bank.
Posted by: Canadian Cents | Nov 3 2020 18:53 utc | 19
Posted by: Russ | Nov 3 2020 18:47 utc | 14
Yeah, but . . .
Why is "Soros" a meme (if you believe in 'memes'), but "Koch Bros" is a seldom seen, obscure epithet.
I have a couple of answers, but one of them isn't very nice . . .
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 18:55 utc | 20
thanks b... i think what's different now is a confluence of energies that are very different... instead of the msm talking about real concerns of the people, it is one big distraction- noise machine.. it seems to be ramping up mayhem, as opposed to anything else.. regardless the election result, the overall atmosphere is very polluted and dangerous at this point as i see it...
@ 1 A.L.... i think you need to read what b said again as i believe you are reading it wrong..
@ 11 jams.. i think you have a point, but a wider one that i would like to make is how big money is also contributing to the polluted political and election environment that is going on at present as well... in fact i personally believe the system that supports end phase capitalism is really suffering the consequences... the train is off the tracks and a new system needs to be built... i can't see this happening before it all falls apart...
Posted by: james | Nov 3 2020 18:55 utc | 21
Media narratives are already planting the idea of a prolonged election outcome reveal, possibly sometime in December was already mentioned on one news station.
This election has loads of mail-in ballots and will be a real mess if there is not a runaway victory.
I expect a Trump victory and believe the manipulation of poll numbers to inflate Joe Biden in the media is not reflective of overall American sentiment. I also expect a "color revolution" attempt by Democrats will only amount to Russiagate-flavored theater and, sadly, a lot of violence among voters.
Posted by: Rutherford82 | Nov 3 2020 19:01 utc | 22
It looks weird from inside as well as from outside.
US does not have politics or political life in the ordinary sense. We barely have a polis or a polity. All of that is subsumed under and substituted by elections. Elections are the simulacra we use instead of having life.
In a recent thread there was discussion of education as viewed by Putin. America does not do education either. When I was in public school in the 1960s the only subjects taken seriously were sports and discipline. That was a golden age compared to present. The electorate has no education at all. We were all born yesterday. We live in an eternal present, no past, no future. Today is an election and that is the totality.
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 3 2020 19:02 utc | 23
Why Trump will win
Election Day: Lionel gets the last bite
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 3 2020 19:10 utc | 25
@Zanon: "It is not Soros backed supporters of Trump that rioted past months all over the US, they are on the left, fringe"
I have to object to classifying anything associated with Ds (and with Soros) as "left". Their main - nay, their only - strategy recently has been amplifying bullshit ethnic grievances.
There's nothing - nothing - 'left' about doing this. In fact, this is a typical far right M.O. Ds are much further to the right than Rs.
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 3 2020 19:10 utc | 26
The 2016 expectation that Hillary would crush Trump caused the Demonkrats to inadequately rig the vote enough to overcome the deplorable surge for Trump. This time they have set up the greatest and most inclusive voter fraud in history. Maybe they will manage it this time, but only 28% of US citizens think the election will be "free and fair". With tens of thousands of people showing up at Trump rallies compared to the striking absence of turnout at the Biden "rallies", would it not be logical for people to question any vote showing a massive Biden vote?
Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 3 2020 19:11 utc | 27
Posted by: oglalla | Nov 3 2020 19:09 utc | 24
You will need to elucidate. "Word" means nothing to me.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:12 utc | 28
Probably looks like a bizarre comic book turned into a b-movie.
As far as my take on the internal American reaction,
Most likely, neither 'side' will accept the 'other side's' version of the election results.
How big of a hissy fit will either/both throw? Who knows?
Yesterday, Hudson conducted a podcast with Paul Jay of The Analysis.news website about the economic aspects related to the election. On the previous thread, the issue of Good Governance versus Bad Governance was raised in the lecture about China's System I linked to that ought to inform everyone that the winner will again be Bad Governance. A review of US History will show the last time Good Governance won an election was in 1940, with the 76-year-long string of Bad Governance outcomes beginning in 1944. Since 1944, the increasing impact of Bad Governance on the USA's political-economy has behaved like compound interest in its escalation to the point where Real GDP is now less than it was in 1990, with a related drop in living standards of all sorts, and all that was occurring prior to the arrival of the pandemic.
Given the underlying socio-economic conditions thanks to the escalation of Bad Governance, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see rioting in major cities nationwide. And I'll add that the election is already illegitimate since the selection before election process was rigged from the start--again. Those on the outside looking in ought to be thankful for their distance, although most barflies are afflicted by Neoliberal Bad Governance too and need to act accordingly to rid themselves of that plague.
3:2 for Biden ... If he doesnt win, we won't know for a while since PA will be taking its sweet time to count the mail.
As for violence etc - utterly overhyped.
Oh sure there will be non-stop noise up until the inauguration. Generally peaceful protests in DC, maybe the odd parked car getting vandalized. Just the usual crap. The thin blue line club showing off their merchandise. Lawyers in state capitals cleaning out the national supply of paper clips. Police chiefs grandstanding. CNN exposé on Russians under your bed. Washington Post changing its website color. Blah blah blah. 99.9% symbolic gestures.
Posted by: ptb | Nov 3 2020 19:23 utc | 31
Rutherford82 @22
Agreed! They did manipulated poll numbers 4 years ago and it didn't do them any good. This time they're going one step further and trying to manipulate the actual vote.
Colour Revolution indeed! I do love the irony of it all. Trump could win and end up getting treated the same way he treated Muduro in Venezuela. Or the Dems could win and find out Trump can be just as poor a loser as they were in 2016 and refuse to leave the White House.
Personally I'd say it would be Trump in landslide if it was a free and fair election, which it won't be. Can Democrats steal it with fraud? I doubt it. They haven't done anything right in 4 years. Why would such a corrupt entity suddenly become competent?
Posted by: EoinW | Nov 3 2020 19:23 utc | 32
My honest hope is that the more or less responsible elements of military, security, and intelligence, will keep things from getting out of hand, and 'step in' to inform the conflicting parties that they actually did an actual count and actually verified it, in reality.
Did you not say Biden was going to win yesterday??? Why the big change now??
Posted by: Scott | Nov 3 2020 19:27 utc | 34
Thanks b., for calling it as you see it
even if it doesn't fit the imposed narrative.
Posted by: michael | Nov 3 2020 19:27 utc | 35
Also that, if they have to, they will restore actual constitutional law, and enforce such upon the conflicting 'parties', while maintaining general stability and safety for the population.
@1: Just to clear up a likely misunderstanding:
"Eventuell" means "possible" in German. It is a common error of Germans writing/speaking in English to confuse "Eventual" and "Eventuell".
I think B has consistenly stood by saying it can go either way, and believing a Trump win to be likely.
I think he just confused those words, and did not mean that a Biden win would be a sure thing.
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr | Nov 3 2020 19:30 utc | 37
Absolutely the worst take ever on the US election dynamics--paragraph by paragraph by paragraph. All of it. I'll only point out that the Democrats have no plan or any real will to fight back--just as in 2000. I don't understand German election--but I don't try to explain them. Trump will go to the Supreme Court as in 2000. BLM has very little to do with the Democratic Party--Biden, for instance is a long time racist. Worst article here, ever.
Posted by: Lawrence Magnuson | Nov 3 2020 19:30 utc | 38
Brilliant. Not only one but two posts for election day in the USA! The first is reruns the laughable "October surprise" adding out of nowhere the evil machinations of Hillary Clinton. And the second reruns your "color revolution" fantasy. Even though Trump has followed the color revolution playbook, lagging in the polls, condemning the legitimacy of the election and telling his fascist militia supporters to "stand by", you report the Dems are the ones planning the "color revolution" because they've got teams of lawyers standing by. Thanks again. I hope you got some of Steve Wynn's recent $250M to the Trump campaign to augment whatever you receive from Russian intelligence. Thanks b. I can now stop wasting time and braincells reading your blog
Posted by: Tio Marko | Nov 3 2020 19:31 utc | 39
There's nothing - nothing - 'left' about doing this. In fact, this is a typical far right M.O. Ds are much further to the right than Rs.
Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Nov 3 2020 19:10 utc | 26
Yet the latest wave of Republican ads links Biden to Communists, and the previous ads recommended "strong President" while Biden is "weak". As both parties are rational and empirical, and the experience proved that irrational slogans that border on nonsense work best, the picture is morose for folks lacking team spirit a.k.a. tribal attitudes. Democratic ads discourage voting for Biden, Republic ads discourage voting for Trump.
Reminds me a Colombian( ?) movie I watched in my youth, with one memorable side theme. A side character runs for the Senate in his country, as can be seen from the billboards with his visage and slogan "Onofre e differente". Campaigning is exhausting, so our candidate relaxes in the company of a professional provider of relaxing services. He asks her "What do people say about me?" "That you are worse than others." "Why?" "Because you are different." That is what you get when you do not use professional political analysts. In this vein, Trump is different and Biden is indifferent.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 3 2020 19:31 utc | 40
Think mistaken about who and why people are protesting. Believe the majority of the protesters are progressive leaning and in pursuit of "basic rights" such as healthcare, housing, jobs, environment, education, etc.
The protests will continue regardless of a Trump or Biden win. Occupy started during Obama. No difference between GOP and establishment Dems.
Posted by: Joe | Nov 3 2020 19:34 utc | 41
All this excitement about whether Joe Trump or Donald Biden wins! Crazy! It will be business as usual whichever puppet gets the special name. Although business under Trump will be more disorganised.
Wake up, you US citizens. Ditch the Republicans and the Democrats. They are just two cheeks of the same warty arse. The US Empire will crumble with the dollar, within a decade. God f*^@k the USA.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:37 utc | 42
Trump is going to win it. They only question is by how much.
The cities are not boarding up because they expect Trump to lose. They’re boarding up because the left will not accept a Trump win under ANY circumstance.
Hillary Clinton has urged Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden to “not concede under any circumstances,” in November’s presidential election, as she believes the results are “going to drag out,” because of mail-in voting.
Posted by: Down South | Nov 3 2020 19:43 utc | 43
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:37 utc | 42
Sorry. To be perfectly clear, I meant:
"warty oligarchic arse"
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:49 utc | 44
Funny how it's all the BLUE cities boarding up....like they know they're gonna lose...
:)
Posted by: JoeG | Nov 3 2020 19:49 utc | 45
If news organizations declare Joe Biden the mathematical president-elect, he plans to address the nation as its new leader, even if President Trump continues to fight in court, advisers tell Axios.
https://www.axios.com/biden-transition-plan-election-day-65caa1f6-886e-42cd-b205-5ee8f89941f2.html?utm_campaign=organic&utm_medium=socialshare&utm_source=twitter
Posted by: Down South | Nov 3 2020 19:49 utc | 46
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr | Nov 3 2020 19:30 utc | 37
Dear Don't. There is no such word as: "Eventuell"
Sorry to rain on your parade.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:53 utc | 47
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:53 utc | 47
OK "Don't" - I can't read - I admit it! My bad.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:56 utc | 48
@43 Down South
Sounds like you are expecting a reaction similar to that of the GOP during the Bush/Gore election.
Posted by: Joe | Nov 3 2020 19:56 utc | 49
@Jams O'Donnell | Nov 3 2020 19:53 utc | 47
There is no such word as: "Eventuell"
In German (b is German) and in Norwegian "Eventuell" is indeed a word, meaning "possibly/perhaps".
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 3 2020 19:59 utc | 50
https://fair.org/home/corporate-media-reverse-reality-by-blaming-blm-protesters-for-everything/
Posted by: Joe | Nov 3 2020 20:11 utc | 51
It is almost as if the Deep State vampire squid would prefer to bring the Republic that threatens it to 3rd world status in order to protect the oligarchy.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Nov 3 2020 20:13 utc | 52
@32 EoinW
Voting in the U.S. is manipulated at all levels. Fortunately the results probably don't matter due to the financial stranglehold on politics so, except for the those employed by the political candidates, it isn't worth losing sleep over. But if there was a functional government in place then it would be a big deal.
The truth is that the facade of the Democrats is falling while the Republican brand has not changed very much in a long time. Democratic support is an all time low and it is getting harder and harder to spin that brand to a society which is not stupid enough to believe everything anymore, especially in the face of two consecutive Presidential elections rife with internal DNC corruption.
The donors really just want the electorate divided, so any real vote manipulation is inconsequential in the scheme of things if all policy trends in the direction of finance and that sort of thing.
I predict you will see more scandal and spectacle over elections on television and every issue will have its emotional appeal magnified to try and bolster support for a feckless Left, while policy continues to feel like it was written by Count Dracula. Ultimately, violence will be stoked by news media in this subtle way until the "violent left" is used as an excuse to enact law and order policies aimed at shutting down protests of all types.
Posted by: Rutherford82 | Nov 3 2020 20:14 utc | 53
The claim that the polls were inaccurate in '16 is not true. The polls accurately predicted that Clinton would win the popular vote. The difference between '16 and today is that the polls gave Clinton a three to four percent advantage with an 11% undecided. Obviously, the undecideds broke more for Trump than they did for Clinton but it still required a minor miracle, winning MI,PA and WI by a total of 77 thousand votes for Trump to prevail. Unlike in '16, this election's polls show Biden with a lead that exceeds the number of undecided voters. That is a big difference, one that those dismissing Biden's status as a favorite ignore.
Another important factor not considered by those expecting a Trump victory is the low number of votes he received in '16. He won with fewer votes than Romney received when he lost. Many Democratic leaning voters stayed home because they loathed Clinton and were not expecting a close election. That isn't going to happen this time. The turnout looks to be very high, which is a bad sign for Trump. There is a reason the Republicans have unleashed an army of lawyers across the country doing everything they can to disqualify votes. They know that the more votes that are cast, the less likely it is that Trump will win. Unlike Clinton, Biden invested time and money in WI and MI and is leading both by a significant margin in every poll I have seen.
B has it completely wrong with respect to who is going to contest the election. Trump announced from the beginning that he would contest the election because he does not consider mail in votes legitimate, even though he has voted that way himself for years. The Democrats are going to do everything possible to thwart Trump's efforts to quash the mail in votes, as they should. It is not "contesting the election" to ensure that all votes are counted. It is contesting the election to say that mail in votes are fraudulent without producing any evidence to support the claim.
Pennsylvania is the key. The polling shows a close race. The mail in vote is expected to skew toward Biden while today's walk in vote cohort favors Trump. Trump will likely declare victory on the basis of the conventional vote total and then do everything possible to delegitimize the mail in vote that is likely to result in a Biden win.
Posted by: David | Nov 3 2020 20:14 utc | 54
Someone on this thread wrote the popular vote doesn't matter since it's the Electoral vote that determines the winner. My question to that commentator: How does s/he think a candidate gains the Electoral votes from any state? Again, the overall popular vote does not determine the winner. Rather, the popular vote within each state determines which candidate wins that state's Electoral votes, with 270 or more making one the winner.
Which candidate the few genuine Leftists within the Outlaw US Empire likely voted for wouldn't be a D or R for they are both well Right of Center as is the Libertarian Party leaving the Green Party as the only real choice, which is how I voted, although I'm resigned to another Bad Governance outcome on the national level.
Soros mainly does color regime change revolutions outside the USA and cleans up by currency manipulation and other crookery.The Kochs do color regime change revolutions inside the USA mostly at the state snd local levels and are fossil fuel crooks by dna.
Posted by: Thom Prentice | Nov 3 2020 20:16 utc | 56
Throughout the last months the required tactics have been tested with Soros funded Black Live Matters protests and anarchist riots in Portland and other cites.
b,
You discredit yourself by posting next to fact free rightist drivel.
Posted by: Jay | Nov 3 2020 20:18 utc | 57
My personal hunch is that Trump, who is much less exceptional than the media portrait him, will sufficient electoral college votes to stay in office.
Remember when you said the republicans would take the House in 2018 because the US economy was good?
Posted by: Jay | Nov 3 2020 20:21 utc | 58
Paul Damascene @52--
Yes, that's exactly their plan. They use the government to wage war on the nation and gorge themselves on the ever increasing debt load citizens must carry just to keep their standard of living at a 1970 level while privatizing as many assets as possible. What percentage of protesters are in the streets because of the ongoing Class War is unknown. Regardless the winner, I expect protests to continue.
@zanon: "Actually economy is doing better than expected. Even though Covid will contintue to be a threat against economic growth.
"U.S. GDP booms at 33.1% rate in Q3, better than expected"
LMAO. I guess you also think the stock market is an economic indicator that reflects the well-being of normal people.
And yeah, if you pump $4,000,000,000,000 into a bunch of corporations and the ludicrous stock market casino, the "economy" of any country will "do better".
If Greece during it's financial crisis had $4 trillion to spare and gave it all to their oligarchs and robber barons, would Greece's "economy" mean the country was doing great? Give me a break.
Posted by: Mr Funchu | Nov 3 2020 20:31 utc | 60
Minor social issues get pimped every election cycle, supreme court pick, etc. They never change, just a whip to get voters out. In the meantime, the country gets more corporate/fascist, more imperial, more privacy for gov & less for us. Don't see any way out. We're living some strange combo of 1984 & Brave New World. I know I'm not, but it's hard not to feel all alone & stranger in strange land.
Posted by: BDrizzle | Nov 3 2020 20:32 utc | 61
Trump has stated repeatedly that if he loses he won't accept the result because a loss could only be because of a "rigged" election. He has also engaged in a campaign of disinformation about mail in voting, claiming without providing anything resembling evidence that it is fraudulent. Biden has stated often and without equivocation that he will accept the results. It isn't the Democrats who have filed hundreds of lawsuits trying to disqualify votes, it is the Republicans. Why would b claim it is the Democrats who will contest the results?
Posted by: David | Nov 3 2020 20:33 utc | 62
@karlof1 #55
48 of the 50 states are "first past the post" - meaning whoever wins the vote in that state gets all the electoral votes.
Note that a ranked vote or proportional setup doesn't mean "Bad Governance" goes away. European nations have ranked voting - and the effect there was to create an indistinguishable blob encompassing the center right and center left. This is why far-right parties have been on the rise in Europe for many years.
Posted by: c1ue | Nov 3 2020 20:33 utc | 63
Sad to have to read such nonsense from you.
First, it matters whether a climate denier is in power or not. Second, it matters whether someone is in power who, for all the jobs in the administration, picks the most disgusting fellows to be found in the usa - or not.
I have no hatred for the u.s. population. I do not wish them a fascist dictatorship. And if one says they already have one, it is because one has not experienced what that really means.
It is Tronald who will do everything possible to turn a possible defeat with the help of a court appointed by himself into the opposite. It is the fascist militias that are ready for a civil war. To claim the opposite is outrageous.
Posted by: pnyx | Nov 3 2020 20:35 utc | 64
Josh@32said: “My honest hope is that the more or less responsible elements of military, security, and intelligence, will keep things from getting out of hand,“
If it’s any consolation, they have probably tinkered with the voting machines already. Only problem is if different agencies back different candidates! I’d be astounded if they let themselves be caught off guard like they did in 2016, particularly since Biden has to be one of their assets.
Here’s a list of voting machine manufacturers: https://www.eac.gov/voting-equipment/registered-manufacturers
Posted by: JohnH | Nov 3 2020 20:36 utc | 65
Upthread, I linked to the Paul Jay podcast with Michael Hudson. Here's the essay he penned that's rather well done. Try this:
"The corporate Democrats think they can contain progressive forces; the Trump Republicans believe they should be crushed.
"This election isn't just about choosing the lesser evil; it's about choosing a more advantageous field upon which to wage battle. Without creating illusions about who Biden represents, the Left should vote for him for President and support progressives in down-ballot races.
"Trump needs to lose, and he needs to lose big." [My Emphasis]
I agree with the bolded point and others made by Jay as well as his analysis of our overall condition:
"While the far-right form of fascism is exceptionally dangerous, it has developed within an 'acceptable' form of fascism that's been evolving for decades right before our eyes."
That's it for the distractions I'll be providing--a lecture, a podcast, and an analytical essay.
@James O'Donnell:
So far it's indisputable, as far as street action Soros got there the fastest with the mostest. Not what I would've expected until recently, but there it is.
It's highly disputable in a fact based argument.
Posted by: Jay | Nov 3 2020 20:48 utc | 67
I think this is a rather regal Brexit-related message from former Canadian PM, Brian Mulroney. Subtle. See for youself. (And glad to see Her Majesty flexing, geez, like we`re in the Commonwealth for nostalgia or something.)
For a little humor, over Canadian fascination/absorption with all things USA
https://twitter.com/22_Minutes/status/1323296500164759552
Posted by: Quasi Retired anonym | Nov 3 2020 20:51 utc | 68
@pnyx | Nov 3 2020 20:35 utc | 64
climate denierOnly those who insist the earth's climate is dead and not changing could be considered a "climate denier". The climate has always been changing, and much more than right now
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 3 2020 20:52 utc | 69
“Antiquated, seriously flawed and vulnerable to failure, breach, contamination and attack,” U.S. District Judge Amy Totenberg wrote of Georgia's aging DRE system before ordering the state to replace it in 2019... Georgia's replacement system for DREs had been rejected by Texas and is the subject of a court battle over accuracy.”
https://news.yahoo.com/news/ballot-safe-computer-experts-sound-100129923.html
IMO if Trump wins, it means that the intelligence services have got him under control.
Posted by: JohnH | Nov 3 2020 20:54 utc | 70
JohnH @65
In 2016 the establishment knew their pick was going to win by a landslide. They had absolute certainty, so why bother with the extra work of cooking the tallies? After all, how could many of the American people possibly vote for the joke candidate who was reveling in playing the part of the Great Orange Ogre? It was inconceivable.
I am sure the establishment does have its contingency plans activated this time, but things are a little different now. Real discussions of election fraud (as opposed to voter fraud) were far outside the Overton Window back in 2016. Now the risk has been raised by the establishment itself, validating the possibility of widespread election tampering and making it part of the national discourse. Suspicions and evidence of tampering will be impossible to dismiss as "conspiracy theory", so the establishment's freedom of action has been significantly constrained by their own accusations against Trump. As a consequence, they may be hesitant to doctor the vote counts as much as they would like.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 3 2020 21:02 utc | 71
Really funny to see people peddling their favorite pronostics on the eve of being probably proven dead wrong ...
Posted by: dee | Nov 3 2020 21:05 utc | 72
70 He has been under their control from the chocolate cake surprise murder of that 24 year old Syrian radar
tech,no going back once you become a member of the war criminals club.
Posted by: winston2 | Nov 3 2020 21:06 utc | 73
Wait, so Trump is the one who is sending armed poll watchers out to the states, stopping the post office mailings, already suing in court for ballots to be tossed out, actively telling supporters that any votes not counted by 8 pm tonight are invalid, telling his followers that Democrats are such "socialists and communists" that they are enemies of the state, and he is the one talking about having all his political opponents (and some of his own administration) arrested right after the election, but somehow it is the spineless Democrats who allow all this shit to go on without much complaint that are the ones trying to instigate a color revolution in the US.
Everyone is completely gonzo, inside out and upside down. And now even MoA.
Posted by: teri | Nov 3 2020 21:10 utc | 74
teri @74: "Russia! Russia! Russia!"
Come on, fess up, you've been chanting that for the last four years. Don't lie and say it ain't so.
The Dims have been gonzo since they turned on their TVs on the morning of November 9, 2016 to see how much Clinton had won by. They lost their minds then and have not yet found them again.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 3 2020 21:18 utc | 75
Karlof1 @59
Thanks for giving this some thought.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Nov 3 2020 21:19 utc | 76
It's very one sided to focus on Biden team's color revolution while denying Trump's. Both of them are evident. But, since media attention on Trump's had been overwhelming and quite muted on Biden's, let's count this as a venial sin...
Where this post is right is that it is the after struggle that matters. How far it goes and the damage it inflict on US' standing and power will reverberate everywhere.
In the end someone (not necessarily Trump or Biden) will win and will have to patch up this country on the rubble of the coming disaster. The question of how to reunite the USA after that, on what basis, for what purpose. For instance, during the election season, a lot of commentators argued that opposition to China was the only common ground in foreign policy.
China's patience at political, economic and tech attacks by the US is running to its end. The next "leader of the free world" will most likely have a very narrow window of opportunity to bring the relationship back to normalcy before China retaliates.
Posted by: Saracen's head | Nov 3 2020 21:29 utc | 77
Democrats are so cute. First you had your divisive resistance in 2016, but the divisiveness wasn't your fault. Then you moved on to Russia, Russia, Russia. I get the Clinton machine and bipartisan cronies had unfinished business in the raping of post Soviet Russia. Damn that Putin for demanding legitimate tax payment. I always thought you guys loved taxing the rich. Guess not, but the bigger question are you getting any kickback from the global predatory crony system? Probably not. Now it is Trump won't leave. He will. Trump will suppress the vote. No he wants a big turnout. Here in PA our dear AG Josh Shapiro has said a couple days ago that Biden has the early votes to win the state. Kinda sounds like Josh plans on suppressing election day voting...no? Why can't you just win the vote with your positions? Why can't you accept when people don't like your positions? More importantly when did you decide to hate working class people, especially the white ones? They use to be your base. Everyone please stay safe from the deep state's planned insanity.
Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Nov 3 2020 21:29 utc | 78
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 3 2020 21:02 utc | 71
High time to send observers, otherwise the international community shall not recognize the legitimacy of the results.... A US Guaidó is needed, then the MSM can tell the world that over fifty countries call him president,
Posted by: Paco | Nov 3 2020 21:38 utc | 79
Gruff@71: The problem is that you have a perfect situation: undercover services and a secret activity with no auditing possible in many cases. I’m sure that the intelligence services understand full well what the margin of error is, and know how to work within it in the places where it can tip the balance.
Heck, they might even be the secret owners of many of these voting machine manufacturers.
In addition, we know that some intelligence services went for Hillary in 2016–former CIA Director Mike Morrell helped kick off RussiaGate with an op-Ed in 2016. CIA Director John Brennan led the interagency charge against Trump’s unproven collusion. Now Trump has vowed to make a lot of heads roll if he wins.
Lots of motivation and lots of secret tools, along with a perfect opportunity...
Posted by: JohnH | Nov 3 2020 21:38 utc | 80
If anyone still doubts that the MSM - at the highest and most controlling levels - loves Trump, here's THIS
Also, if you're going to say the Dems are planning a "color revolution" you'd have to acknowledge that is exactly what happened in 2000 when the media destroyed Al Gore and gave the election to Bush along with the "activists" on the ground in Florida, such as Brett Kavanaugh.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 3 2020 21:38 utc | 81
Is it too early to coin the moniker "Biden Derangement Syndrome"? I expect a lot of it here at the whiskey bar from some of the newer regulars. Funny.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 3 2020 21:40 utc | 82
David #54
thanks for that analysis. good. I basically agree with you up to the point of the last paragraph
PA is only the key state IF trump wins in all the other contested swing states/areas where biden has some advantage/lead - slight as those polling leads may be, that's why those states can't really be called: in George, Maine 2, N Carolina, Florida, Arizona, Nebraska 2. I've also seen the forecasted vote share in PA as being at trump 47% and biden 52%. I would call that for biden, except of course for mail-in related shenanigans.... Ohio is virtually tied in polling so who the hell knows about that state.
personally, all along I've thought to myself, I can't see how any sitting president can survive 15%-20% or more real unemployment, and a pandemic which has killed over 100,000 (and I don't believe for one minute that clinton as president would have done a much better job of it, at all.
I am expecting the media to call it for biden by midnight.
But the last 4 years have been so unusual I wouldn't be surprised at anything this election.
Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 3 2020 21:46 utc | 83
Let's check in on how Sweden's Herd Immunity Miracle is working out.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Nov 3 2020 21:49 utc | 84
Thank you teri for saying more effectively what I tried to state in previous posts. It is preposterous to call the current situation, which you so aptly described, an attempt at a "color revolution" by the Democrats. The normally very sensible response Mr. Gruff's response, "Russia! Russia! Russia! is bazarre. You don't have to believe in the Russiagate nonsense to know that it is the Republicans who have, from the beginning, announced that they would not accept the results of the election if they lost because a loss is proof that it was rigged. They are engaged in desperate shenanigans in an attempt to thwart the electoral process. I say this as someone who loathes the thoroughly corrupt Joe Biden. The Republicans are delegitimizing the process because they know that they will almost certainly lose an honest election.
Posted by: David | Nov 3 2020 21:49 utc | 85
The U.S. Constitution gives state legislatures the power to decide how presidential electors are elected. It has been the practice in recent history to make the choice depend on the popular vote, but that is not constitutionally required.
Posted by: lysias | Nov 3 2020 21:50 utc | 86
Thread is a slightly deviant microcosm of the same bullshit conflict that distracts from any meaningful insight.
One strategy trumps ALL others: divide and conquer.
Posted by: Rae | Nov 3 2020 21:52 utc | 87
Norwegian | Nov 3 2020 20:52
Missing the point of my post you admit inadvertently you do understand very well what is meant.
Posted by: pnyx | Nov 3 2020 21:55 utc | 88
15 Reasons Trump wins. And I saw that as a Kanye voter
1. Karentocracy
2. Blue Lives Matter
3. Burn, Loot, Murder
4. Pudding brain Biden
5. Kamala Harris
6. Gun sales
7. Green New Deal
8. Suburban security Moms
9. Huntergate
10. Second Debate: Lockdowns, kids in cages, anti fracking
11. Millennial no shows in early voting
12. Lopsided Get Out the Vote game ground
13. Early vote parity instead of massive Dem lead
14. 20/40 - 20% black votes, 40% Hispanic votes for Trump
15. Trump hustles, while Biden hides - effort matters
Posted by: Anunnaki | Nov 3 2020 21:56 utc | 89
Posted by: Brian | Nov 3 2020 18:40 utc | 8
"I expect when they win they will quickly throw the BLM movement entirely under the bus as they're not really needed."
Don't be naive. If Biden wins, he becomes "the new Hitler". Nothing changes. It will be necessary to destroy democracy in order to save it. Who will become the the new 'Lenin',the new 'Trotsky', the new 'Dzerzhinsky'?
Posted by: curmudgeon | Nov 3 2020 22:11 utc | 90
@Posted by: teri | Nov 3 2020 21:10 utc | 74
Agree, totally...
For what I have read there were white supremacist militias prepared to even shot voters coming into poll stations in case Trump will send a signal of the results going badly.
Then, you have the Vienna terrorist attack ( of which nobody has told a word here, curiosuly...)another quite suspicious one, perpetrated by another old known of the intelligence services from amongst those who wanted to go fighting in Syria, happening in the day before elections, as if to underpine Trumps´ monothematic platform of "law and order"...
The attack, lableled as very professional BY Austrian PM, Kurz, was allegedly planned against a synagogue whic, at the time of the attack, was closed!...Naturally, as the terrorist, lately we know, claims being from IS ranks...Are we to believe that IS, who are able to send in swarms of drones, several times, into Hmeymin Russian military base in Tartus, and manage to keep a proxy war going in Syria for already more than five years, forgot consulting the timetable of the synagogue?
Coincidentaly, of all the media, Israel’s Channel 20 was the first to get the exclusive video of the attack...one would say they were prepared...to shot...the film...
But, do not think, this could well be the preheating only, and may be you should go preparing for another 9/11 event in case Trump loses, or while it is determined who won...
Who has more to loose on case Trump loses? Who has benefitted maostly from Trump´s presidency?
A clue, it is not the US people...
Just yesterday, happened to be the anniversary of violent assasination of Pier Paolo Passolini, communist, Italian writer, poet and film director....
On November 14, 1974, Pasolini made these lucid statements to the most important newspaper in Italy, the Corriere della Sera. A surprising fact if we take into account that the Corriere was on the right and the direction of that medium was linked to the P2 Lodge (-Gladio-)
https://twitter.com/Herbert_Keg/status/1323352733286567943
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Nov 3 2020 22:20 utc | 91
William Gruff @ 75:
You say, "teri @74: "'Russia! Russia! Russia!' Come on, fess up, you've been chanting that for the last four years. Don't lie and say it ain't so. The Dims have been gonzo since they turned on their TVs on the morning of November 9, 2016 to see how much Clinton had won by. They lost their minds then and have not yet found them again. "
Fuck is wrong with you? Do you have me confused with someone else? I very seldom post comments anywhere, but the ones I have posted here have made it abundantly clear that I never bought into that Russia bullshit. I also thought the whole Ukraine impeachment thing was some major crappola the Democrats thought up because they wanted to impeach Trump but didn't want to impeach him over the things they want to get away with themselves.
I didn't vote for that war-pig Clinton, nor did I vote for the ignorantly viscous, mendacious grifter Trump. I am not registered as either Democrat or Republican for what it is worth.
I have no heroes. At least, not in US politics. We are on our own. I just believe that people ought to see with clear eyes and not deny reality. The truth is what I wrote in my comment at #74 - Trump is deliberately undermining the election. The Democrats seem rather sanguine about it, considering the lengths he has gone to. If he is your hero, defend him all you want, but don't come on here and try to inject some bullshit you just made up into my opinion, as thought it were something I ever said. Fool.
Apologies to anyone who is offended by my language here. I've just had about a bate of people telling me what I "really" think or what I "really" mean.
Out of the ruins, out from the wreckage
Can't make the same mistakes this time
We are the children, the last generation
We are the ones they left behind
And I wonder when we are ever gonna change?
Living under the fear, till nothing else remains
We don't need another hero,
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome
Looking for something we can rely on
There's got to be something better out there.
Mmmm, love and compassion, their day is coming
All else are castles built in the air
And I wonder when we are ever gonna change?
Living under the fear, till nothing else remains.
All the children say,
We don't need another hero,
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome
So what do we do with our lives?
We leave only a mark.
Will our story shine like a light,
Or end in the dark?
Give it all or nothing!
We don't need another hero,
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome
All the children say,
We don't need another hero,
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the Thunderdome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcm-tOGiva0
Posted by: teri | Nov 3 2020 22:23 utc | 92
"High time to send observers, otherwise the international community shall not recognize the legitimacy of the results. A US Guaidó is needed, then the MSM can tell the world that over fifty countries call him president"
Posted by: Paco | Nov 3 2020 21:38 utc | 79 | Nov 3 2020 21:38 utc | 79
Bravo, Paco.
Posted by: curmudgeon | Nov 3 2020 22:24 utc | 93
@H.Schmatz
Germany was the target. That's Merkel cleverly anticipated the quarantine. Obviously to favor Trump platform
Posted by: Nick | Nov 3 2020 22:44 utc | 94
If Democrats win then Russiagate will be buried. I long believed that the most powerful - John Brennan, James Clapper, Hillary Clinton, James Comey and Robert Mueller - would get by relatively unscathed, it is the American Way of Unequal Justice; but,
*** I had hoped some measure of undeniable Truth would be out there on the table for all to see when all is said and done.***
What am I saying!?! As I am writing this out I say to myself, "Are you kidding?!".
Forget the part between the ***s
Forget it.
What would be the point? The MSM and Democrats will live FOREVER in denial no matter what is on the table.
Russiagate will be buried.
PERIOD.
Posted by: Librul | Nov 3 2020 22:47 utc | 95
Teri, As a long time admirer of William Gruff's posts on this site, I was shocked by what he wrote. No one likes to be grossly mischaracterized and that is just what Gruff did to you. I don't blame you for being angry and using the language you used. I despise Joe Biden but it is preposterous to ignore the outrageous efforts of the Republican party to distort the electoral process while simultaneously claiming that the Democrats are engaged ins a "color revolution."
Posted by: David | Nov 3 2020 22:49 utc | 96
Hope the Soros thing is a joke. If you actually think the protests are some grand play by liberal forces and not a legitimate outpouring of grief by citizens in a country that is going to shit, you're starting to lose touch.
If you went around and asked "Soros funded" antifa and BLM protesters what they thought about Biden, the majority response would not be whole-heartedly positive. Dems and you are delusional if you think the youth are going to fight in the streets for BIDEN of all people.
Posted by: gorem | Nov 3 2020 23:06 utc | 97
A Weird Election
"Weird" is a feature, not a bug.
The exceptional asshats always put on a good show for the sheeple.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 3 2020 23:11 utc | 98
A Weird Election
"Weird" is a feature, not a bug.
The exceptional asshats always put on a good show for the sheeple.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 3 2020 23:12 utc | 99
@ David @ 96
Thank you for your comment. I was surprised by his remark, obviously, because I too have found Gruff to be a usually intelligent commenter.
Actually, one reason I don't post much is that, like every comment thread on every website, people who post a lot tend to become wedded to their positions and that can lead to a firming of already entrenched ideas, divisiveness, and rancor (such as I displayed). I find it hard to just ignore comments where the writer is making things up or simply refusing to rethink pet fixations. Since I do not want to be one of those people - the ones who think they are always correct just because they dominate the thread - I try to read and learn (a LOT of really smart people here to learn from) without offering my own little two cents too often.
But, yeah, this time I thought B's topic post was way off, so I commented, only to be caught off guard by what Gruff said.
Anyway, it's time to put the little note back up on the edge of the computer screen; the one that reminds me "No Comment". I stuck by that for years, and guess what? Nobody ever argued with me or told me I was stupid. :)
Posted by: teri | Nov 3 2020 23:14 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
b didn't you say in your last post you expect a biden win? I note you used the word 'eventual'... Care to expand?
Posted by: A.L. | Nov 3 2020 18:23 utc | 1