Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 6, 2020
Why Trump Returned To The White House

Yesterday President Donald Trump revealed this interesting re-election strategy:


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This is a Hail Mary strike taken at high personal risk.

Trump was certainly not well enough to get released from the hospital.

It is not really known when Trump got infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and when he fell ill with Covid-19. The treatments his doctors said they used with him are somewhat conflicting. After Trump was diagnosed with Covid-19 he was given a high dose of monoclonal antibodies which directly attack the virus and lessen the overall growth of viruses. The antiviral drug remdesivir which lowers virus RNA production was also given:

[I]t would seem that if you’re going to give monoclonal antibodies, that they would be best given early in the course of the disease, when therapy is still in antiviral mode. The addition of a five-day course of remdesivir to the treatment regimen fits that as well: both of these are designed to lower the amount of virus present and (in theory) keep the disease from progressing to a more severe stage.

Both therapies make most sense in the first phase of a virus infection when it is still only in the upper part of the respiratory system. In that phase the normal immune system is still building up its defenses. But Trump seems to have already been in the second phase of the infection where the virus is in the lungs and when the immune system starts to attack the body. He at least twice had too little oxygen in his blood likely without feeling it. This "happy hypoxemia" is typical for Covid-19:

The adequacy of gas exchange is primarily determined by the balance between pulmonary ventilation and capillary blood flow, referred as ventilation/perfusion (V/Q) matching. In the initial phase of COVID-19, several mechanisms contribute to the development of arterial hypoxemia, without a concomitant increase in work of breathing. Rapid clinical deterioration may occur.

At that stage Trump was brought to the Walter Reed hospital and began the antiviral therapy. But his illness must have worsened. After his second day in the hospital his doctors announced that he had been given the corticosteroid dexamethasone:

[The] severe stage shows up as an overactive immune response leading to the well-known “cytokine storm”, and potentially big trouble. It really looks like the best therapy we have for that at the moment is dexamethasone. So I found it interesting – and not in a good way – that the president’s medical team had actually put him on dexamethasone, because its mode of action is to damp down the inflammation response. And if a person is still in the early stages of infection, that’s the opposite of what you want to do.

The doctors also said that Trump's chest CT showed what they 'expected' without describing what that was. It likely means that the virus had started to attack the lungs:

Due to increased lung edema (leading to ground-glass opacities and consolidation on chest imaging), loss of surfactant and superimposed pressure, alveolar collapse ensues and a substantial fraction of the cardiac output is perfusing non-aerated lung tissue, resulting in intrapulmonary shunting.

That increased the need to give additional oxygen and to start with the anti-inflammatory steroid.


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If the disease can not be stopped at that point, the next dangerous consequences, small blood clots (microthrombi) are likely to occur. Trump will have to take some kind of blood thinner to prevent those from causing a stroke.

No sane doctor would at that point release a patient from the hospital.

But Trump wanted to be back in the White House. He calculated that he needs to show that the virus can be beaten.

He has no other chance to win the election. The people rightly believe that he screwed up the U.S. response to the pandemic. Even older voters who voted for Trump in 2016 are now saying that will vote against him:

In a recent Washington Post-ABC poll, 52 percent of likely voters over 65 supported Biden, compared with 47 percent for President Trump. Four years ago, Trump won those voters over Hillary Clinton.

Trump was warned of this early on. As Tomas Pueyo wrote back in April:

The older you are, the more likely you are to both vote Republican and die from the coronavirus. Voters aged 80+ are 80 times more likely to die from the coronavirus than those under 40 (16% fatality rate vs. ~0.2%).

This effect is strong enough that people who voted for Trump in the 2016 election are around 30% more likely to die from the coronavirus than Democrats. In some swing states from the 2016 election, such as Pennsylvania, if the coronavirus were to run wild, this effect alone could have wiped out up to 30% of the gap between Republicans and Democrats in the 2016 election.

Trump can no longer convince the voters, especially the older ones, that he did everything to protect them from the virus. What he probably still can do is to convince them that it does not matter because the virus can be beaten.

To do that Trump had to make himself the showcase.

I do not want to suggest that Trump intentionally infected himself. But he did pretty much everything one should not do if one wants to prevent that.

Trump is relatively old, he has additional risk factors and despite that he now can say that he has beaten the virus. Should nothing further happen to him there is no way that anyone can doubt that.

His real message in this White House video is: "I have beaten it. You can beat it. The virus does not really matter. Just carry on."

That message, in various variants, will now get repeated every day. Some people will start to believe it and it may indeed help Trump to win the upcoming election.

There are risks in that strategy. Some of those who recently got infected in the White House may die. That would lead to accusations that Trump has caused that by being careless.

Another risk, and a personal one that Trump is taking, is the fact that he has not yet beaten the virus. He may still need oxygen. His lungs are still impacted and will take many weeks to heal. This virus is insidious. There is a risk that there will be some kind of relapse or complication that will need additional treatment in Walter Reed. The White House is equipped for medical emergencies but not for the intensive care that often follows. Should Trump need to go back into the hospital his strategy will likely fail.

Trump will still get dexamethasone. That drug has side effects and withdrawal from it can be tricky:

  • The production of corticosteroids is controlled by a "feedback mechanism," involving the adrenal glands, the pituitary gland, and brain, known as the "hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis" (HPAA).
  • Using large doses for a few days, or smaller doses for more than two weeks, leads to a prolonged decrease in HPAA function.
  • Steroid use cannot be stopped abruptly; tapering the drug gives the adrenal glands time to return to their normal patterns of secretion.
  • Withdrawal symptoms and signs (weakness, fatigue, decreased appetite, weight loss, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain) can mimic many other medical problems. Some may be life-threatening.

It is unlikely that Trump will soon go back on the campaign trail. He can be happy if he has enough energy for the next TV debate with Joe Biden. He will probably need additional drugs to sustain it.

When the British prime minister Boris Johnson fell ill with Covid-19 his approval in the polls increased. We have not seen that effect for Trump. But the polls may be wrong. They were wrong in 2016 because many who were asked did not want to admit that they would vote for Trump. That effect may now be even stronger than it was back then.

Trump's return to the White House is sending message of confidence. It is likely that it will bring him additional votes.

By deciding to leave the hospital early Trump showed his willingness to take a significant personal risk to achieve his reelection. One may hate the bastard and still admire him for that.

Comments

To give another view: if we take the absolute number of US cases: 7717830 and divide into the number of deaths: 215723 – the result is 2.7%.
At least 70% of all deaths involve people who had serious health issues as mentioned above: diabetes, cancer and what not.
This shows that the estimation above isn’t far off: the likelihood of Trump dying from COVID-19 just isn’t high by any measure.
Is Trump stunting? Absolutely
However, the Democrats may well have over-egged their pronunciations of doom. 2.7% absolute and under 0.5% mortality for not-sickly people just isn’t that likely.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 7 2020 0:06 utc | 101

@Johannes,
It appears that the only one who cannot read English is you, as in the basic statistics. In Scandinavia we have Norway, Sweden and Finland:
Norway: 2721 cases per million popn; 51 deaths per million popn.
Sweden 9504 ; 582
Finland 1972 ; 62
I have no need to read some local GP’s prognostications on something which is obviously above his educational level (i.e. he is not a researcher in infectious diseases or pandemics). There is a quite blistering debate going on in Sweden about their approach, with Sweden coming closer to other nation’s approach.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash
The countries with the best outcomes tend to have done hard local or national lockdowns and/or extensive contact tracing and face mask usage (China, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand). Sweden is not one of these. The truth will come out in the next weeks as Autumn and Winter descend on the Northern Hemisphere.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Oct 7 2020 0:08 utc | 102

Insane amount of disinformation and trolls in this post , again anti lockdown peddle the swedish nonsense and trump supporters slobbering in denial ..
BUT
lets be clear , lets hope for Trump very slim victory 2020 , a victory that will be contested by democrats and the people of america who realize who trump really is. And then lets the civil war begin.. nothing bring down US faster than trump

Posted by: milomilo | Oct 7 2020 0:08 utc | 103

Politics is the entertainment division of the military-congressional-academic-industrial complex.
It’s all theatre to make you think your vote and opinion matter. As Mr. Carlin (and Mr Zappa) said — they don’t.
It’s a Big Club, and we’re not in it.

Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 7 2020 0:22 utc | 104

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez @AOC
4h
What an anti-everybody agenda looks like:
The President & GOP are walking away from getting ANY COVID stimulus relief done, effectively endangering millions, after *they* themselves got COVID & enjoyed free socialized healthcare, so they can push through an anti-ACA SCOTUS pick.
My take: Well, so much for another $1,200 stimulus check. I was expecting both parties to at least get that done in order to “buy the election”. Apparently I was too naive.
Posted by: milomilo | Oct 7 2020 0:08 utc | 102 lets the civil war begin.. nothing bring down US faster than trump
Agreed. I still don’t think anyone should vote for Trump or Biden. And I still doubt there will actually be a civil war as opposed to civil unrest, at least not any time in the next few years. But this country is done. Stick a fork in it. Burn it all down and start over. Kill the rich, take their money, take their women. But do it intelligently. Don’t let the situation get to the point where Russia and China have to nuke us all (and if it does, have a plan to get out first.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 7 2020 0:30 utc | 105

5)I read somewhere that when Trump’s dad had dementia in his 70s, the family built him a fake office and gave him fake documents to sign so he could still think he was going to work. Trump seems to be going along this path.
Posted by: GreatSocialist | Oct 7 2020 0:05 utc | 9
There is a high chance that the Oval Office will be a fake office. I mean, if both Biden and Trump will be alive in January, the chance is 100%. But this condition has less than 100% probability.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 7 2020 0:38 utc | 106

I really cannot understand ..People on the thread ..[not able to].. remember that Dick Cheney is still alive by: teri @ 86 You must not have read the label carefully, Assad and Company, the manufacturer, says its spray is not effective against oil and gas creeps…

Posted by: snake | Oct 7 2020 0:38 utc | 107

Well, he’s finally found a way to drain that swamp. We thought he was stupid but he fooled us all.

Posted by: Ralph Conner | Oct 7 2020 0:46 utc | 108

Ah, James @ 35 …
How do you know what you’re seeing really IS believable?? ..
or could THEY adjusting your screen to fit THEIR image?
Therein lies the rub!
‘;]

Posted by: polecat | Oct 7 2020 0:48 utc | 109

Trump was not discharged from the hospital to go home. He brought the hospital home. How long he can keep up the charade remains to be seen.

Posted by: Augustine | Oct 7 2020 0:50 utc | 110

Given advanced age of newly infected Senators and possible more vulnerable people, I would not use words “Hail Mary” discussing Trump at this point, but “Thypoid Mary”:
Mary Mallon – Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org
Mary Mallon (September 23, 1869 – November 11, 1938), also known as Typhoid Mary, was an Irish-born cook believed to have infected 53 people with typhoid fever, three of whom died, and the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the disease

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 7 2020 0:54 utc | 111

Posted by: Johannes | Oct 6 2020 22:01 utc | 65
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Oct 7 2020 0:08 utc | 101
I accept the possibility that the virus may not be as deadly as initially thought (clearly fewer people are dying now in spite of ever-increasing case numbers) and that herd immunity may be possible, but for now I will keep working from home and ordering my groceries online. At this point we’re still gathering evidence and it’s too early to make any firm conclusions.
Would that properly controlled epidemiological experiments were possible. Right now we have countries that went into hard lockdowns and now seem to be almost back to normal (e.g., China), countries that officially did little yet so far have avoided total disaster (e.g. Sweden), countries that did little and have experienced multitudes of deaths (e.g, USA, Brazil), and a whole lot of in-between scenarios. In some countries the 2nd wave has outpaced the 1st (much of western Europe), while others are having an extended 1st wave or are still in an in-between period. Factor in racial, social, climate and demographic factors plus the possibility of multiple virus strains, and who-knows-what-else, and the only thing that’s clear is that we still have a lot to learn.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Oct 7 2020 0:55 utc | 112

thanks b for continuing factual reporting. my opinion is trump has a fallback option of creating maximum chaos. he has just nuked stimulus checks, which means the poor and much of the middle class will soon be desperate–no job, no stimulus money, recipe for greatly increase unrest and wars in the streets, which the increasingly brutal cops will put down, using experience gained by many of them in the wars.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 7 2020 0:55 utc | 113

Put another way: we now have had multiple world leaders and famous politically linked people who have gotten COVID and not died:
Boris Johnson
Prince Charles
Jair Bolsanaro
Juan Orlando Hernandez (President of Honduras)
Not a single one dead so far. Johnson was the worst of the bunch, but not apparently actually in the last category (pneumonia plus serious).

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 7 2020 0:58 utc | 114

Trump’s condition is indeed sucking up all the oxygen of this bar and the rest of cyberland and the impact is far reaching. I’m looking at the collapse of my network of liberal friends who have become so addicted to TDS that I can’t really text or talk with them anymore. They are not happy with me when I send links about Assange, Gabbard’s bills to pardon Snowden, Assange, change the Espionage Act, Biden and Harris’s records, transition team, endorsements, statements on Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Putin, Bernie’s rallies of “1” for Joe. Lots of stress and finger pointing here.
Meanwhile, Bolivians are taking back their country.

Posted by: migueljose | Oct 7 2020 1:02 utc | 115

Well, he’s finally found a way to drain that swamp. We thought he was stupid but he fooled us all.
Posted by: Ralph Conner | Oct 7 2020 0:46 utc | 107
Old thinking! What was called “swamp” is now a “wetland”. Wetlands have huge ecologic importance, support many species, decrease flooding, purify waters etc. Sudden increase of rationalism in the national budget, tax rules and regulation would collapse industries that are responsible for 30-50% of American GDP (military related sector 6%, medical-industrial sector 17%, and then we have financial sector and few others). But this ecosystem is very resilient, so you can “mow the grass” and it will quickly grow back.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 7 2020 1:03 utc | 116

@ polecat | Oct 7 2020 0:48 utc | 108… OT good news!
‘No redactions!’ Trump says he ordered TOTAL declassification of ALL Russiagate and Clinton email probe documents again – i will believe it when i see it!

Posted by: james | Oct 7 2020 1:17 utc | 117

I just have to share a quote from a recent posting at Reuters

(Reuters) – The White House Gift Shop, which is not affiliated to the White House, has started taking pre-orders for a “President Donald J. Trump Defeats COVID” commemorative coin.
Last in a series of coins marking moments in Trump’s first presidential term, the coin celebrates his “ascendance over and personal defeat of the deadly COVID pandemic virus”, the gift shop website said.
The coin was priced at $100. There was no photograph of the coin on the website.

I will wait a week before I concede bad conjecture about Trump’s death but never will buy a commemorative coin, thank you.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 7 2020 1:57 utc | 118

the majority of people that get it do not die, and one might remember that world leaders, being world leaders, have the best medical care, unlike the great unwashed. so 4 world leaders getting it and not dying doesn’t mean much. trump is probably the likeliest candidate to die yet, because he is far more focused on winning the election that getting better. and remember, johnson nearly died.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 7 2020 1:58 utc | 119

What forest? Hey look, a tree!
I’m one of those who believe that Trump faked the whole thing.
I think b is right when he says: … Trump had to make himself the showcase but it’s more likely that he did so without actually being sick himself. There is virtually no independent evidence that Trump was actually sick but there is a whole lot of showboating.
Someone who was sick with a potentially fatal disease and it got serious enough that oxygen was administered would not be so cavalier and/or brush it aside. But when reporters asked about the oxygen, the doctors essentially claimed that it wasn’t really needed. It’s Trump partisans that have played up his illness.
IMO The Trump WH did the testing not Walter Reed Hospital (WRH). And Trump decided to go WRH merely for effect (essentially, for observation). Trump also decided when he would leave.
Trump used Walter Reed doctors as props. It’s clear that they had limited information and were restricted in providing what little they had. Nevertheless, those paying attention could plainly see that:

  • In their first news conference, doctors dodged the question of whether Trump had been admitted to the hospital(!)
    The answer given simply stated the obvious: “Trump is a patient. Who is at Walter Reed Hospital.”
    Admitting Trump would’ve meant taking his vitals and doing tests.
  • When Trump was preparing to leave the hospital (after the drive-by stunt) the doctors were asked: when was the FIRST TIME that the President tested negative?
    The doctors refused the answer the question!
  • The doctors also didn’t say they were discharging him, they merely said that Trump “met all criteria for discharging on Saturday [the day before)]
  • The doctors were asked how they could justify releasing Trump when it was likely that the worst of his illness was ahead of him. They said that Trump has all the care he needs available to him in the White House.
    But that was true BEFORE Trump went to WRH! So why the need to go to WRH?

I’d guess that the WRH doctors never tested Trump and may have actually had limited access to him. Trump’s primary physician was probably always in charge. Trump was probably tested only by the White House. Was it the WH that administered the meds also?
As the doctors at WRH grew uncomfortable as Trump’s props, Trump “decided” to leave. LOL.
<> <> <> <> <>
Sadly, those who can’t/won’t see that Trump was elected by the Deep State and is pushing their MAGA agenda pigeon-hole themselves such that all strange behavior from Trump is merely ego-driven. Fetishing Trump’s ego is just a form of self-deception that supports the illusion of democracy. One should not allow oneself to succumb to the entertaining kayfabe.
I wrote on the prior thread about the Democrats pulling punches and then of Trump’s patriotic spectacle. IMO such things are not accidental. When we look back at Germany in the 1930’s we also see a deliberate spectacle to entice and enthrall.
And the Democratic Party’s constant shooting themselves in the foot is also not accidental.
Don’t waste your vote! The duopoly elections are rigged. Vote third-party, write-in, or not at all.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2020 2:01 utc | 120

Politics is the entertainment division of the military-congressional-academic-industrial complex.
It’s all theatre to make you think your vote and opinion matter. As Mr. Carlin (and Mr Zappa) said — they don’t.
It’s a Big Club, and we’re not in it.
Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 7 2020 0:22 utc | 103
b is barely newsworthy 1 in 10 these days… but i can’t find anywhere alternative that isn’t batshit crazy…

Posted by: Rae | Oct 7 2020 2:06 utc | 121

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2020 2:01 utc | 119
Wasn’t the question asked by so many, “When did the president last test negative?”
No answer given to that question.

Posted by: suzan | Oct 7 2020 2:23 utc | 122

And now for something completely different..
Colour revolution in the making?

Posted by: Hosscara | Oct 7 2020 2:32 utc | 123

The best Analysis on the internet so far.
Donald Trump did not make a deep fake and pretend to be ill. His military Doctor and the Joint Chiefs (who are quarantined) won’t go along with the charade. The Chiefs want him gone. He is infected, contagious and to a degree ill. He is rolling the dice to be the pro-wrestling hero who defeats the virus and gets re-elected.
Leaving the hospital is hellishly selfish. Anyone near him not wearing PPE can be infected. October 13th is the date to see if he is still here. Meanwhile, anyone working the White House who is 60 or older is at risk of death is similar to Americans serving in the military during WWII.
Was the GOP targeted? No. The virus needs uninfected human beings to reproduce. Instead their political beliefs (anti-science and anti-public health) put the stupid and unprotected more frequently near infectious virus shedders who were not contact traced and isolated. The White House became a super-spreader site.
The US federal government has collapsed. The two-headed one-body political party that has no interest in doing what is best for the American people will die shortly if they continue to be unable to control the pandemic and end the economic depression.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Oct 7 2020 3:03 utc | 124

Johannes @ 50
Thank you sir! It may be a wasted effort here but I appreciate it. People believe what they want to believe. So they ignore death totals like, Sweden which has had 5 deaths in October, while lockdown and mask law countries are having 50-100 deaths daily.
Of course B is now quoting the Washington Post! How low will people sink to keep their Covid 1984 pandemic going? We need to end the Scamdemic to get this site and its comment section back to the excellent posting it used to do.
Oh and bravo to President Trump! I get colds and they last two weeks. This old man beats Covid 19 over a weekend. The most public figure showing the world how deadly a virus Covid 1984 really is. Hopefully a turning point. Though I know the Looney Left will never admit they were wrong about their precious pandemic.

Posted by: EoinW | Oct 7 2020 3:33 utc | 125

In the theme of a fake Oval Office, as everyone here has probably read the Orange One has just announced the unredacted declassification of all information regarding Russiagate and Clinton email servers. The only media covering this in the States is Fox News, with Russia media also covering it. As of when I write this, The Hill, BBC, Reuters, and WaPo have not issued a word. He claims he already ordered it declassified, but everyone seems to be dragging their feet. I wonder why?
If nobody follows his orders and no one talks about it and does nothing, has it ever happened, and is he still Commander in Chief?
If it isn’t released by January will the Biden Administration reclassify it? If someone leaks before then, can they be prosecuted? Will Trump stay alive after the election?
Stay tuned!

Posted by: Michael | Oct 7 2020 3:39 utc | 126

I REALLY pray the fukker gets serious problems such as neurological damage, brain damage and lung damage becomes senile and drooling and dies writing in pain, the way millions around the world from Syria, yemen to Venezuela are suffering. Couldn’t happen to a nicer asshole. But from the looks of it, it appears to be a PR stunt that a lot of dumb Americans will fall for.

Posted by: Hoyeru | Oct 7 2020 3:57 utc | 127

@foolisholdman | Oct 6 2020 21:47 utc | 63

There are two video clips of Trump after his discharge from hospital in VT, that show him looking pretty poorly, for what it’s worth.
Posted by:

I too look pretty poorly when I have the cold.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 4:15 utc | 128

psychohistorian | Oct 6 2020 18:30 utc | 7

I am going go go out on a short limb and posit that Trump will be dead within a week.
….
It will be interesting to see what Trump tries to accomplish before expiring.
Is this how empire falls?

I will join you on that limb and will shout you whatever beverage you desire. I will bring a shiraz.
As far as empire failing, I would say this is just the beginning. Biden is incapable of so many things that he really deserves to go down in history as more incompetent than Donald Trump and almost as incompetent as Fort Detrick. The latter can’t even run a sewage treatment plant let alone a BSL4 lab.
I reckon Donald has done the right thing – better than a nine mm bullet, quieter and less messy, and a ringing affirmation of stupidity. All those militia heavies and their mate at zero hedge will be looking right at Walter Reade and the Demonazis at Russia. I just can’t wait to hear of it all. Rachel Madcow’s vibrator will break down and she will be bawling on air at the unfairness and evil of it all.
Just DO IT USA.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 7 2020 4:21 utc | 129

Did Trump get the virus? Really?
Trump is a pathological liar and has given exhaustive proof of this. Why should we believe that he is speaking the truth now?
Trump is a fraud and a fraud capable of doing anything to win

Posted by: Permafrost | Oct 7 2020 4:21 utc | 130

re: Johannes comments
It’s hilarious reading useful covidiots’ comments, trying to “refute” a medical professional’s testimony from the hospital floor with concocted conspiracy theories! WHO/WEF/Fates Foundation must be proud to have brainwashed so many sheeple!

Posted by: LXV | Oct 7 2020 4:27 utc | 131

@Circe | Oct 6 2020 22:36 utc | 73

It’s obvious no one in your family ended up on a ventilator dying alone because of Covid and leaving behind kids and a spouse!

That is true, I know of nobody who have died from covid, and none of my friends or acquaintances know of any such cases when I ask them. In March they closed down my workplace with 500+ employees claiming that one of my colleagues had the virus. But I worked closely with him the whole week before and he just had a cold returned quickly fresh as ever, it was all a stunt ordered from above (the company is partly government owned). They are still at it.
I know is what is claimed in the mainstream meadia, but it is not reflected in reality.
As for my family the last few months there has been one death from old age (102) and a serious case of cancer that is being treated, but with difficulties because of the covid hysteria. I just went to the dentist and he explained he is now forbidden to use some of his modern equipment due to ridiculous rules issued by the authorities, all due to the imaginary virus threat. The problems caused by the hysteria are orders of magnityde bigger than the perceived threat from covid, and that is the crime you might want to focus on.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 4:32 utc | 132

@RJPJR | Oct 6 2020 23:06 utc | 83

I agree that he looked BAD on the White House balcony, for the was obviously winded and trying to hide it.

I never said what you are attributing to me. Check your facts.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 4:36 utc | 133

Posted by: Hoyeru | Oct 7 2020 3:57 utc | 126
Agreed. Very likely it was a stunt – or he does have it and it is a stunt anyway (in terms of how he’s playing it, as b said, hoping he wins.)
I *seriously* want to see this guy croak from the virus. If I wasn’t an atheist, I’d be praying for it. But with my luck, it probably won’t happen.
Posted by: Michael | Oct 7 2020 3:39 utc | 125 He claims he already ordered it declassified
Trump claims a lot of things – 99 percent of which are total bullshit. When he releases the (likely non-existent) *NSA evidence* that Russians actually were in the DNC servers, then maybe I’ll believe it. Or he releases documents proving that the FBI does have an analysis of Seth Rich’s personal computer that shows Rich was in touch with Wikileaks, as argued by Butowsky’s lawsuit, etc., then maybe I’ll believe it. Until then, it’s just another Trump random statement of zero value.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 7 2020 4:36 utc | 134

@migueljose | Oct 7 2020 1:02 utc | 114

Meanwhile, Bolivians are taking back their country.

I hope so! Maybe you can share some details in a suitable open thread?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 4:45 utc | 135

Michael #125

…the Orange One has just announced the unredacted declassification of all information regarding Russiagate and Clinton email servers.

Thank you Michael that is good news and all I can say is RED HERRING. But I must admit it is a good red herring. The frenzy at msnbc will be extreme.
But is it a cover to drag Julian Assange to the USA gallows? I would not put ANYTHING past Donald Trump.
The only test of Trumps good intentions is if he goes after Debbie Wasserman Schultz for setting up the Congressional extortion/spy ring through the Awan family IT scammers. I can’t see him doing that because of chabbad solidarity between New York and Florida. After all the home team in occupied palestine has got all the wins from the Trump presidency.
I expect to see lots of middle level red herrings over the next few weeks because of the election timeframe. If Trump believes he is about to die, he could reach into his old family bottle of DEEP VENGEANCE and go after some other unworthy [goyim] souls.
Enough already I am seriously considering avoiding any thread derived from the NYT or WAPO. I am sick of their puerile nonsense. I can get that myself should I feel that deprived. Any way there is an abundance of ignorance at Amazing Polly or Steve Pieczenic to lure me if I ever need that perverse therapy.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 7 2020 4:55 utc | 136

Trump (most likely) contracted the virus from Ronna (Romney) McDaniel.
Romney’s niece, aptly named as well.
Ronna was with Trump on September 23/September 24 and began self-isolating later that same day – Friday September 24 – after her family members became infected.
Romney was diagnosed a few days later (Wednesday September 28).
The ‘super spreading’ event was on Saturday September 25 – the Amy Coney Barrett Rose Garden ceremony.
It is likely Trump was a “super-spreader”. There would likely have been others (obviously) who were there with Trump/Romney on September 23/24 and were also there at the Rose Garden ceremony on September 25. They could also be super-spreaders.
Perhaps Trump and one or more of his entourage.
This should be fairly easy to determine really with a little bit of questioning.
The first question to confirm this link is to find out when Romney’s family members are thought to have contracted COVID-19 and therefore when it is likely they gave it to Ronna.
Also worth looking at Amy Coney Barrett (who apparently had COVID-19 in the “Summer” – which ended around September 21), and perhaps Ron Johnson, who was self-isolating in September because his staff had been infected. But had emerged from quarantine by the time the Rose Garden ceremony happened.
Ronna looks the most likely to have brought the Rona though.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 7 2020 5:00 utc | 137

Re: Posted by: David | Oct 6 2020 18:40 utc | 14
David – Trump is not categorically out as you assert far from it.
As for your point about Trump taking a turn for the worse, perhaps, but you undercut your own evidence when you say Trump’s condition could take a turn for the worse on/about day 9, which is unofficially the worst day for COVID patients in terms of the impact.
As you can see from my previous post – Trump most likely caught COVID-19 from Ronna Romney on September 23/24.
9 Days after September 23/24 is October 2/3 which is when Trump went into hospital. So he’s now days past that point, but maybe you’re right – Day 9 is the worst day – well – that was the day he went to hospital!! Congrats – you might have nailed the Day 9 thing.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 7 2020 5:06 utc | 138

Roger Boyd #101

The countries with the best outcomes tend to have done hard local or national lockdowns and/or extensive contact tracing and face mask usage (China, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand). Sweden is not one of these. The truth will come out in the next weeks as Autumn and Winter descend on the Northern Hemisphere.

Perfectly well put, thank you. The frantic denial party relying on GP’s always give me a chuckle. I would not be her if I had listened to the absurd prognostications of conventional GP’s in my young days. My brother’s GP just tried to kill him a few days ago as he is less inclined to push back and do his own research.
GP’s are fine for cuts and stitches, baseline diagnosis, simple remedial advice and as the permission portal to more detailed specialist advice. They are NOT the font of perfectly correct wisdom.
The long term prospects for successful lock down countries is interesting to contemplate. In my land I doubt we would be welcoming visitors from the renegade clown countries anytime soon and that suits just fine – no USUKi Typhoid Mary visitors. Come to think of it that would be a fine new name for Fort Detrick – Fort Typhoid.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 7 2020 5:08 utc | 139

The US federal government has collapsed. The two-headed one-body political party that has no interest in doing what is best for the American people will die shortly if they continue to be unable to control the pandemic and end the economic depression. by: VietnamVet @ 123 THE USA has <=no "PHYSICAL EXISTENCE". THE USA is a <="STRUCTURE"; <=described in "SEVEN ARTICLES"; which have been amended <="TWENTY-SEVEN TIMES"; expressed on a ="SHEET OF PAPER"; with heading and title="CONSTITUTION OF THE USA". The description of the structure outlined in the 1st three articles of the Constitution names <="POSITIONS AND FOUR GROUPS"; defines on each position and group <="BOUNDARIES, CONSTRAINTS AND SCOPE OF AUTHORITY TO EXERCISE POWER"; and assigns within those definitions <="POWERS TO GOVERN AND JUDGE". [currently their are 527 governors + the judiciary]" . The two headed political party you refer to are not part of the public Government. They are private parties, whose sole purpose is to help the OLIGARCHS to use the USA (government) to <="CONTROL THE MASSES". private__Layer 1: Global Oligarchs, control entire nation state franchise system. private__Layer 2: Local Oligarchs, own+control local "named" nation state franchise.. public___Layer 3: Functional Government structured in accord with founding documents. private__Layer 4: Two party system:function to <=TO CONTROL THE MASSES private__Layer 5: the Electoral College: function to <=CONTROL ACCESS TO PRESIDENCY. public___Layer 6: the 340,000,000 who constitute the governed masses. private__Layer 7: 92% privately owned, main stream media. Forces external to the government are private actors <= "CORPORATIONS, POLITICAL PARTIES, OLIGARCHS, FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, ADVISORS, CONSULTANTS, NGOs, THINK TANKS, MAIN STREAM MEDIA AND BED TIME PARTNERS". the USA is the only public part of that "private party control of the masses "schema.

Posted by: snake | Oct 7 2020 5:18 utc | 140

How is the First Lady doing?
Does anybody know?
Does anyone care?

Posted by: Curious | Oct 7 2020 6:02 utc | 141

Good news: racist anti immigrant Steven Miller is also sick. General Mark Milley is quarantined. The empire is dying at the hands of the “China plague”.

Posted by: Gabriel Moyssen | Oct 7 2020 6:16 utc | 142

trump seems to be going off the rails again, calling off negotiations over much needed stimulus payments then hours later reversing course. maybe donald jr can get the rest of the trump family on board with blocking him from twitter. i think the steroids are affecting him, along with the covid.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 7 2020 6:55 utc | 143

Sweden “as of 6 October 2020” has 4772 confirmed cases during the last 14 days. Source ECDC scroll down to see the numbers, last column is “Confirmed cases in the last 14 days”.
Johannes is misinformed with a straight lie and misinforming by propagating the same lie.
At least to me it seems unlikely that herd immunity is possible for COVID-19 and it also seems unlikely that any effect of vaccination will be permanent. It will most likely take years or decades to find out for certain.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 7 2020 6:57 utc | 144

@ julian we don’t know when he got it. he announced it on friday, oct 2d. if he got it on thursday, we will reach it on saturday oct 10. nobody but you is saying he got it on sep 23 afaik. and he is seeming to be increasingly unhinged, which is why his son wants some kind of family intervention.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 7 2020 7:01 utc | 145

Re: Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 7 2020 7:01 utc | 145
Pretzel, it generally takes 5 days for symptoms to appear.
If he got it on Thursday there is no way a test on Friday am will show him with the virus.
It’s generally accepted it was spreading around the Rose Garden on Saturday September 25 – go and search far and wide and you will see that much discussed.
So who brought it to the Rose Garden? Well, there are several suspects including Trump himself if he picked it up on September 23/24 from Ronna – and for that matter anyone else who was with Ronna on September 23/24 – they caught a plane together! Obviously there are several people who were in the company of Ronna on September 23/24 who were then at the Rose Garden. Ronna wasn’t because she was already self-isolating.
Also, I am far from the only one saying this.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 7 2020 7:09 utc | 146

pretzelattack | Oct 7 2020 6:55 utc | 143
“trump seems to be going off the rails again, calling off negotiations over much needed stimulus payments then hours later reversing course… i think the steroids are affecting him, along with the covid.”
Sounds a lot like the (very likely deliberate) whiplashing of constrict-relax-constrict-relax of the entire government-media terror-lockdown assault. Once again we see what a perfect microcosm Trump is of the entire economic civilization.
Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 7 2020 6:57 utc | 144
“At least to me it seems unlikely that herd immunity is possible for COVID-19 and it also seems unlikely that any effect of vaccination will be permanent. It will most likely take years or decades to find out for certain.”
And if true, what exactly do you think would be left of humanity after these years and decades of mass psychological terrorism (including the classical schizophrenia-inducing double-bind whiplashing I just mentioned) and the building up of techno-Stalinist totalitarianism?
At what point would you finally say the alleged “cure” (which you’re already doubting) is worse than any conceivable worst of the disease?
I was never in any doubt from day one.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 7 2020 7:20 utc | 147

Posted by: vk | Oct 6 2020 20:20 utc | 43 — “…. let me ask the true, the consequential question: which case (1 or 2) will solve the economic problems put before them? Which will make GDP grow? Which will create jobs? Which will open the path to sustained economic growth for the foreseeable future? Because that’s what matters when the cookie crumbles.”
Thanks, vk, for asking consequential questions contrasting US vs CCP governance.
I would phrase my questions thusly: Which group of leaders, in which nation, is using which approach to governance, that delivers the people’s good?
My answers are the CCP, running China, using a mix of capitalist and socialistic methods, serving the Chinese people’s good. Not just for the majority Han Chinese, but also the other couple hundred minorities. Serving the people just as Mao exhorted.
So very unlike the Exceptionally Indispensable Nation, where leaders serve themselves, right down to the smallest ‘benefits of office’ such as going to hair salons during covid19 lockdowns (the zombie-faced leader of chicago; plastic-faced leader of the opposition, crazy nancy pelosi; et al). LOL.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 7 2020 7:48 utc | 148

@101 Roger Boyd
Thank you for the concise refutation of Johannes’ posturing.

Posted by: michael | Oct 7 2020 8:07 utc | 149

Previously b claimed that Trump did nothing to stop the spread of Covid because it was mostly killing non-whites and presented charts that showed the overlap between low-income, non-white neighborhoods and the associated high death rate from Covid and this was proof positive that Trump was doing nothing to stop the pandemic because the people doing the dying wouldn’t be voting for him in any case.
Now he tells us that in fact Covid is really killing the elderly white folks that make up the Republican voter base in such numbers that these deaths can actually influence the election in marginal states where Republicans have small leads.
Which is it ? They can’t both be true.
If Trump recovers in time for Election Day the Democrats will lose the election which why they are all secretly hoping he dies.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 7 2020 8:15 utc | 150

131# Norwegian
Eight months in pandemic,and I still do not know about one single person that got covid nowhere in my region,or in the greater family.Let us get it over with.
Doctors are used to lying to patients.I just cannot figure out why so many people trust medical agents.They have been lying for centuries to gain power over people,first by killing off midwives ,burnt as witches and taking over their positions,than by monopolizing pain killers and letting patients completely in the dark about effects and side-effects.They vaguely refer to the Oath of Hippocrates,so if that is so important,why do doctors accept politicians to decide over whether or not to use specific medical treatments.
I do not say that all doctors are bad,or unable to cure your ailments.But they are not scientists,curing people is an art,and depends largely on the doctor’s personal aptitude ,insight and attitude towards his fellow-human.
Anyways,you cannot buy health,and the biggest fools over here are those that think that modern medicine is a progress and will be even more in progress in the future.It is a scam,like politics,like space-travel.The real progress is sewage,kitchen sinks,toilets combined with personal day to day hygiene.

Posted by: willie | Oct 7 2020 8:27 utc | 151

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2020 20:30 utc | 45 — Thanks. My comments on some of your 6 points:
Second point — I too believe there is a high chance that Trump is doing a kayfabe thing using the walter reed hospital as a prop ( hat tip to Jackrabbit @ 119 ).
Third point — Trump does not have full, nor even predominant control of his government. That is why he bobs and ducks and weaves as he tries to appear to be in charge. The permanent, bureaucratic, unelected officials jerk him around daily even as he second guesses them, and they second guess him.
Fourth point — The US economy imploded in the 4th Quarter of 2019 (that overnight bond crash was the clue), now “repaired” with FED money-printing. When covid19 came along, it was useful cover for distracting Main Street America, impoverishing the people to experience pain for a while, training them to live with less, and then even less in 2021.
Fifth point — MAGA failed not simply because of Trump (his failings conceded, but his government does not fully work for him), but because America is too far gone down the toilet hole to be saved by one president, nor by one party. As Richard Steven Hack @104 said: …. this country is done…. Burn it all down and start over.
Sixth point — Yes, both parties form the Parasitic Kleptocracy. Their lying will go on until the lying cannot work. Meanwhile, Wall Street jostle to grab their last fistful of free money at the FED money-printing pump. Main Street America will never see that they have been made poorer in real terms because their house prices will actually RISE in relative terms, that is to say, in the new devalued USDs. Meanwhile, Wall Streeters, including the Parasitic Kleptocracy, will see their house prices, stocks, artworks, fortunes rise FASTER than Main Streeters can ever hope to see in their lifetimes.
Taking the long view, the elections, trump, biden, covid19, china, russia — all those are distractions in The Magician’s Hand, while his other Hidden Hand is stealing from the American Treasury, enriching the Elite, impoverishing Main Street. It is sad to see that all the nice American people — people in history’s most exceptionally indispensable nation — can do is to snipe at each other, even in intelligent fora such as this one, completely missing the ongoing COTA (Crime Of The Ages).

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 7 2020 9:01 utc | 152

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 7 2020 5:08 utc | 140 GP’s are fine for cuts and stitches, baseline diagnosis, simple remedial advice
As I like to say, doctors are good for bleeding, broken bones and babies – anything beyond that, they’re hopeless.
I’ve had nothing but bad, useless or non-existent advice from the doctors at the clinic I went to for my piriformis syndrome and diabetes. The piriformis physical therapy I got from San Francisco General made the condition worse. One of them wanted to put me on statins – but I did my research and discovered statins are useless unless you’ve already had a stroke or heart attack, they’re the most over-prescribed drug, and two-thirds of patients on them quit within two years due to muscle aches. I cured my diabetes by simply losing 45 pounds. Dropped from an A1C of 9 to 5.6 in six months (Metformin probably helped, tho.)
Doctors prescribe stuff so they can charge the insurance companies or Medicare. The insurance companies and the government fight back by restricting treatments and minimizing payouts. Scam all around. Everyone is corrupt. Trust no one. Do your own research. Make your own judgements. You’ll be right as often as the doctors are, maybe more so.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 7 2020 9:27 utc | 153

Posted by: willie | Oct 7 2020 8:27 utc | 152 Eight months in pandemic,and I still do not know about one single person that got covid nowhere in my region,or in the greater family.
No one gives a shit about your anecdotal, i.e., worthless, experience. Go talk to the doctors on the front lines in New York back in April and May. Then STFU.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 7 2020 9:35 utc | 154

Richard 155#
Just last week I got the annual autumn proposal to get free seasonal flu vaccination,as my country France sends by letter evry year to those above 55 or 60 years old.I never respond to this.So show me last season’s annual flu numbers?Can you even find any?
Covid did it take the place of normal flu?Every year over 70000 die of annual flu,where are they now?
Of course I cannot judge what happened in New York back in April and May but I’m sure Your Obesiness will detail it to me.

Posted by: willie | Oct 7 2020 9:55 utc | 155

Plenty of people like Trump. Survival of the fittest. Lot of them in small time business.
Vietnam and covid. Not a single case in he last few months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLiETi9sHCI
I watch this clown a bit and didn’t know he was based in Vietnam.
Another I watch a bit is a motormouth canadian and turns out he’s based in Thailand.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 7 2020 10:08 utc | 156

Russ @ 148
And if true, what exactly do you think would be left of humanity after these years and decades of mass psychological terrorism…
it’s scary to imagine decades from now, but here in Italy the formerly ubiquitous handshake cum kiss on each cheek is over. in one fell swoop they’ve killed it. i don’t know ’bout the touching of noses or kissing three times in the Arab world, but naturally such modes of human contact have been the norm since forever among many cultures. it’s quite astounding, though, the compliant, collective antipathy expressed towards such decency in these threads and elsewhere, so devoid of human character.
i think the transition to a barren, antiseptic future is all but settled…bleak, desolate, hygienic, infertile,
sad.

Posted by: john | Oct 7 2020 10:18 utc | 157

Posted by: Down South | Oct 7 2020 8:15 utc | 151
“Which is it ? They can’t both be true.”
Yeah, actually they can. What Trump thinks has no causative effect. Trump can think it’s killing the poor and non-white while it is actually killing lots of his old well-off white supporters. No contradiction there. Actually happened already. If you pay attention you will find Trump believes all kinds of stupid stuff.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 7 2020 10:20 utc | 158

Posted by: Russ | Oct 7 2020 7:20 utc | 148 techno-Stalinist totalitarianism?
What’s that?
Did you jump on the John-Pilger-anti-Stalin-rethoric-train recently?

Posted by: v | Oct 7 2020 10:28 utc | 159

To continue the timeline on stimulus talks between WH and Congress, last night after 10 p.m. ET, Trump began negotiating with himself. He sent out this tweet: “If I am sent a Stand Alone Bill for Stimulus Checks ($1,200), they will go out to our great people IMMEDIATELY. I am ready to sign right now. Are you listening Nancy?”
This could nauseatingly go on until election day. Of course, $1200 would maybe cover one month’s rent (no utilities, food, insurance, gas, etc.) on a one bedroom apartment even in the town where I live, which is basically Podunk, Any State.
Reminds me of a scene in that old movie “The Jerk”. Trump, McConnell, Pelosi, and the rest keep lowering our expectations and counting on us being content with just keeping what we can carry in our arms as we get thrown out of our homes. “All I need is…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2X3vVMdh-s

Posted by: teri | Oct 7 2020 10:42 utc | 160

john 158
It’s a horrific thought. The only bright spot is that maybe we’re seeing the terminal stage of modern civilization’s decadence, the soul of the people worn down to nothing. That’s the only way they could be submitting to this mass obscenity. Then perhaps once the necropolitan civilization collapses completely a humanity restored to natural modes of living (no doubt dragged there kicking and screaming by Gaia; but at any rate they’ll have to get there one way or another) can emerge from the wreckage and rebuild the ways of being human, including the physical closeness we evolved to want and need over millions of years, but which this obscene civilization does indeed seem finally to have extirpated among “civilized” zombie hominids.
As for the global South, maybe they can make the transition without completely losing their humanity along the way, if they can only hang on and resist the depredations of the West a little longer.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 7 2020 10:59 utc | 161

v 160
I’ve never read Pilger. I have read many books about Stalinism.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 7 2020 11:00 utc | 162

163 cont’d
I’ve read much about Stalinism, and am all too familiar with the aspirations of today’s Western governments and corporate technocracy, which is why from day one I recognized and opposed this totalitarian offensive which is using “covid” as a pretext.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 7 2020 11:20 utc | 163

Posted by: teri | Oct 7 2020 10:42 utc | 161
I repeat, absolutely nothing Trump says has any meaning whatsoever. It’s all pure narcissism and pure BS.
He issued that tweet because he realized that denying everyone their $1,200 would look bad for him. That’s it. Doesn’t mean anything other than he’s concerned about his perception, as usual. He’s a liar, a con artist, a BS artist, and a bully. Nothing more. It would be smart for Pelosi to take him up on that offer, but then he’d probably renege, which is the other thing he does constantly. And Pelosi can’t do it because then it would make Trump look good for offering and her supplicating to him by accepting. So she’ll hold out for the $2 trillion plus the Repugs won’t give her.
So I don’t get $1,200, and neither does anyone else. What is anyone going to do about it? Nothing. Business as usual in America. After this election, basically the same people will be in power doing the same things the previous crowd did, because they’re all owned by the same people. Until the people who own them are *killed*, nothing will change.
Fortunately for me, as a retiree living on $989 a month (plus $94 in food stamps) in subsidized housing, I will be fine as long as the Social Security checks keep coming and the organization that runs my building remains operational. And I will be planning for the day when either are no longer true should that situation arise. Once my hacking skills are up to snuff, I will take their money and turn it against them. Everyone else locked in to the employment system is going to be screwed, unfortunately for them. This is what one gets when one believes in the mythology of society and state.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 7 2020 11:26 utc | 164

Trump is not going to die. Name an A-list celebrity who has died. Biggest name off the top of my head would be John Prine. Who was in end stage lung cancer, had already had big pieces of lung surgically removed. After Prine maybe we could list Bucky Pizzarelli. A-list to me but not to most. And 94 years old. Who else? Herman Cain? More like a footnote.
Celebrities are just immune to this. Trump will live.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 7 2020 12:03 utc | 165

When U R 15 minute helicopter ride from Walter Reed and have constant medical supervision U can afford to be brave. BTW sorry for the U’s and R’s, posting too much on Laura Ingraham’s lunatic account.
Trump is in no danger but while he was in the hospital he could work without endangering his staff, now he has turned the WH into a war zone. It’s a selfish mood but will play well to his Hoaxer base. I might be projecting but certainly the middle / left see this as a sign of privilege but as someone once said, ‘I have never gone broke betting against the stupidity of the American people’.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Oct 7 2020 12:05 utc | 166

willie
I like your anecdote just fine. RSH somehow has license to lob ad hominems at everyone in the bar. He makes threats too. Just disregard. He is almost certainly a paid troll. Mysterious to many of why he is allowed to continue, mysterious why anyone responds to him.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 7 2020 12:14 utc | 167

Well, this should get things moving again:
Trump Authorizes Declassification of All Docs on ‘Russia Hoax’, ‘Hillary Clinton Email Scandal’

Posted by: Bemiildred | Oct 7 2020 12:27 utc | 168

The COVID hoax teaches us that we are essentially powerless. We have no human rights. They can destroy our livelihoods, force us to wear useless face diapers, tell us where to stand, and restrict travel. They can impose restrictions if we want to buy food.
The object is to teach us that we are powerless and must obey. The object is to train us like animals. Then they will introduce mandatory vaccinations that may poison us, reprogram our DNA, and identify if we are compliant or not.
We need to organize and demand our human rights. We need to flood our traitorous politicians with demands for:
1. Freedom of speech
2. Freedom of Information.
3. Freedom of assembly.
4. Freedom of belief & worship.
5. Freedom of movement.
6. Freedom from forced vaccination.
7. Freedom from restrictions due to opting out of vaccinations.
These are human rights. They are given to us by God, not by subverted and corrupt governments.

Posted by: Jose | Oct 7 2020 12:34 utc | 169

So it looks like President Trump is making a quick return to good health. This despite the fervent wishes of the tolerant and caring liberals that he’d die in severe discomfort. How they squealed and gloated. “See, he downplayed the threat and now he has it! He’s finished. Ha ha ha.” In fact Donald’s rapid recovery has betrayed the fundamental weakness of their position and by extension that of the whole Covid scam. Because this is not the deadly virus its touts proclaim it to be. It’s probably a little worse than most flu epidemics (especially for the oldest age cohort) but is nothing out of the ordinary. Certainly its impact doesn’t go next or near to justifying the scaremongering and panic being used to lock down and subdue whole nations. Reminder: For people under the age of 60 the survival rate for those infected is in excess of 99%. Yes, 99%. Even for those of the President’s age the survival rate is about 95%.
So with their premature celebration of his demise the libtards have highlighted the non-exceptional lethality of the virus and in doing so made themselves look even more ridiculous and hypocritical than usual.

Posted by: Jose | Oct 7 2020 12:46 utc | 170

We have been lied to every step of the way. News reports of overworked doctors, overflowing morgues, crowded hospitals, crowded ICUs, emergency rooms inundated with thousands of COVID-19 patients, racing ambulances full of COVID-19 patients, mass graves, and refrigerated trucks full of bodies are contradicted by numerous videos of empty hospitals, empty waiting rooms, empty “testing centers”, and parked ambulances in the alleged “epicenters” of the pandemic.
The coronavirus charade is no different from previous virus panics — SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, Zika — only now the people at the top think we are divided enough, stupid enough, and weak enough to submit to a massive acceleration of the ongoing transfer of power and wealth from us to them. Sadly, it appears that they are correct.
Too many of us still believe — despite overwhelming historical and contemporary evidence to the contrary — that the government and the corporate media do not lie, especially about the big things. In reality, the government and the corporate media lie about everything — especially about the big things.I

Posted by: Jose | Oct 7 2020 12:51 utc | 171

In fact Donald’s rapid recovery has betrayed the fundamental weakness of their position and by extension that of the whole Covid scam. Because this is not the deadly virus its touts proclaim it to be.
___________________________________________
Well yeah.
That is exactly what it was intended to make you believe.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 7 2020 12:55 utc | 172

Gleaning from the comments: Trump’s oxygen levels were normal on Friday morning but on the low side “below 94”. Depending on when Trump contracted the virus, that may have been his “day 9”. Indeed, it was clearly stated that Trump was taken to Walter Reed “out of an abundance of caution,” which probably meant that the doctors did not know whether his oxygen level would drop to a dangerous level. Adding too much “info” to this info complicates things: Are all the White House people, those who have tested positive or those who have not, and their doctors involved in some kind of conspiracy? Is the entire medical establishment part of some kind of deep state or is it not? Why does Trump look “pale” if he did not even have the virus?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 7 2020 13:13 utc | 173

@Jose, 12:51, 172
Some people are taking on the liars – see this post by Dr Reiner Fuellmich on Crimes Against Humanity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr04gHbP5MQ&ab_channel=Dr.ReinerFuellmich

Posted by: cirsium | Oct 7 2020 13:13 utc | 174

“Trump was certainly not well enough to get released from the hospital.” How the fuck do you know ??

Posted by: Sylvestre | Oct 7 2020 13:17 utc | 176

@Richard Steven Hack #165
You’re in SF, I believe?
Would you have voted for Trump if he had enabled another $1200 stimulus? I think not.
Even if you voted for Trump, would it make any difference whatsoever to California’s electoral votes? Equally unlikely.
The reality is that the red states are open. Jobs are coming back, although the extent of the COVID fearmongering has done extensive damage.
Yes, COVID is not just another flu. But it is equally clear it is not the Black Death, the 1918 flu or other truly severe diseases.
The economic lockdown is far more damaging than the effects of the disease. For example: here’s an article from Brookings showing that just in March through mid-July, 420000 small businesses failed
A second data point: the NBER estimates 3.1% of all jobs will be lost due to small business failures arising from a 9% increase in their failure rate.
These aren’t small numbers, nor are these losses going to be reversed quickly. The Brookings article notes that the jump in spending in May 2020 only recaptured 63% of the losses from retail sales drops in March and April. A graph shows that the peak retail sales fall was double that of the 2008 GFC.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 7 2020 13:37 utc | 177

Nah, Trump is dying. His hand were blue during his WH comeback

Posted by: Nick | Oct 7 2020 13:39 utc | 178

Trump’s clusterfu*k began with the event he hosted in the Rose Garden for Amy Coney Barrett, and his decision yesterday to kill the relief bill until after the election and ram through Barrett’s appointment instead will be, (pardon the pun), the nail in his coffin.
I gather from Trump’s twitter that he’s trying to walk back that blunder and blame it on everyone else, which I knew he would do, but it’s too late, since already he was staring into the abyss of defeat, and now he just looks stingy, petty and weak. I predict that by the end of next week, his fantasy will all unravel, and his fall will be stunning.
Trump’s self-undoing was planned by TPTB out in the Universe somewhere. He was destined to fall from the pinnacle of power for his humiliation to be complete, as it should be, given his level of depravity, and so this spectacle can remain a cautionary tale with a singular interpretation for all Americans. Trump is but a serious symptom of a disease that afflicts most of America.
I don’t know what Trump was thinking when he posed for that video in the White House portico Monday night all puffed up with his fake magnificence. That too was destined to show the world; he’s always been a poser President, and America too is a poser with the past 3 decades or more of failed leadership in the world. The image Trump tried to convey in that video came off as pompous and shallow. There’s no substance there because it wasn’t earned with selfless duty, humanity and courage.
RBG will have the last word and maybe get her final wish as droves of women voters flee from Trump, but Covid will have been the test that ended it all for Trump and exposed the U.S. as unworthy to lead the rest of the world.
No hail Mary pass to save his own skin will undo his monumental Covid fail. He did not conquer Covid; COVID and not his risky promiscuity while Americans died in war will be his Vietnam that drives him into the pages of historical infamy.
This end is what you get when you put your own selfish quest for greatness before decency, honor and compassion.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 7 2020 13:55 utc | 179

More data points, because any one source can be flawed/anomalous/wrong:
Yelp reports Blue state business closures are twice or more vs red state business closures
California has 39.1K permanent and temporary business closures vs. Texas’ 15.2K.
California has 1/3 more people than Texas, but this is still a huge disparity.
Florida has 10.2K closures with a bit over half of CA’s population.
For specific metro areas:
LA has 15K closures, NY has 11.2K closures, SF has 6.2K closures (but a small fraction of the population of LA or NY), Chicago has 5K closures.
The remaining metro areas are under 4K.
It is notable that the Illinois lockdown started later (March 20?) and appears to have ended in early May.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 7 2020 13:55 utc | 180

@144 Yes he really gave the stock market a heart attack yesterday . Perhaps he figured out that the Dems are using the stimulus negotiations as a voting ploy.
Anyway he’s changed his mind today and the market has rebounded.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/stock-market-futures-open-to-close-news.html

Posted by: dh | Oct 7 2020 13:56 utc | 181

teri @Oct7 10:42 #161

I am ready to sign right now. Are you listening Nancy? …. Reminds me of a scene in that old movie “The Jerk”.”

Reminds me of this scene: Want the transfer orders for the [rank and] file? … ya gotta ask me nicely. Except Pelosi will never be able to ask nicely enough.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 7 2020 14:07 utc | 182

@willie | Oct 7 2020 8:27 utc | 152

Eight months in pandemic,and I still do not know about one single person that got covid nowhere in my region,or in the greater family.Let us get it over with.

Yes indeed, we are aligned in this. Everyone who doesn’t know any sick persons (not “cases”, but people actually sick) should ask themselves if their perception of reality is compatible with the real world.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 14:37 utc | 183

@Jose | Oct 7 2020 12:34 utc | 170
Thank you, you have it 100% correct, and the actions described are really necessary.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 14:43 utc | 184

Russ:
A large part of humanity is so far doing just fine without herd immunity and without vaccines and should continue to do fine unless the virus and the disease turns worse and maybe even if that happens.
These countries have achieved it by being vigilant and doing as much as they can both as individuals and as societies, both by simple measures and practical technological innovation, and by being willing to take on the collective burdens that so many in “the west” don’t seem to want to and instead ridicule in so many different ways including fantasies about enormous world-wide conspiracies and the supposed futility of surgical masks and so on.
China has shared everything they did right from the beginning, they proved it can be done, it’s up to everyone else to learn and emulate it and if we refuse then so be it. Some countries did copy China and did achieve similar success.
None of this is new, it’s been like this for over half a year now or longer. Some people will refuse to accept the reality of it until they die, don’t ask me why, but it would be nice if they went away from here and found some other place to complain and whine.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 7 2020 14:52 utc | 185

SRB,
Well put.
They are like a broken record. Very annoying after a while. Why can’t they say their piece once and then STFU instead of hundreds of posts calling the whole thing BS.

Posted by: arby | Oct 7 2020 14:57 utc | 186

@181 c1ue
That is a bullshet biased propaganda analyses of the facts on YOUR part!
1) The greatest number of international flights come into New York, Chicago and L.A. Therefore that’s why they suffered the greatest number of Covid infections in February and March and had to take the strictest measures to contain it.
2) Blue states generate higher GDP than Red States and are the most underfunded by the Administration. So in this crisis, they would be the most vulnerable and have the greatest challenge salvaging businesses.
3) Your site’s statistics also show that in permanent closures Texas and Florida’s were higher than Ilinois and New York! If California’s was the highest it’s because it also has the highest GDP and has been dealing with Covid and fires. While Florida’s permanent closures are higher than New York and yet NY has a higher GDP than Florida.
I’d say Chicago, ranked 5th in GDP, did very well.
So your conclusion is pure BUNK.
@184 Norwegian
Speaking of BUNK–you’re contemptible! Maybe Covid can do us all a favor and give you up close and personal proof of how deadly it has been and is so you stfu once and for all with your garbage!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 7 2020 15:25 utc | 187

CT scan on Friday showed he had developed pneumonia in the lungs.
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1312816632620699648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1312816632620699648%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siliconinvestor.com%2Freadmsg.aspx%3Fmsgid%3D32969732
I think society is pinning too much on a magic bullet that may never come. They need to condition people to take these measures as permanent as they do in Asia and start retrofitting buildings to purify the air to make them safer.

Posted by: Les | Oct 7 2020 15:25 utc | 188

@arby | Oct 7 2020 14:57 utc | 187

Why can’t they say their piece once and then STFU instead of hundreds of posts calling the whole thing BS.

Great, the process to accepting reality has started. This is level 2, anger. As for the factual argument, the thousands of posts perpetuating the imagined threat far outnumber the opposition.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 7 2020 15:30 utc | 189

No president can stop a virus. Heck vaccines and doctors can’t stop a virus. Where Trump failed was by not appointing a Special Council to find out not only who made this virus, but who paid for it. Trump campaign itself has made some moves that suggest they plan on losing. Personally I think Trump just wants the whole thing to be over with. Plus just watch Covid will die Nov 4, and never will you hear about again.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Oct 7 2020 15:33 utc | 190

Correction: Illinois as a whole is ranked 5th in GDP; same difference, since Chicago generates most of that.
Hey Les, thanks for the link but did you have to shrink the thread to get it ain? Geez. Check out how to put links in html codes and LEARN to do it. If a tech dummy like me can do it so can you.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 7 2020 15:33 utc | 191

This “Operation Coronavirus” is a tightly woven, interconnected web of scams, much like a set of Russian dolls, where the outer layer contains a series of successive inner layers until you get to the core.
Another aspect of the scam which has been well exposed by doctors such as Dr. Lee Merritt and Dr. Tim O’Shea is the deliberate fusing of the terms ‘positive’, ‘infection’ and ‘case’. According to Merritt, since ancient times, a case referred to someone who was demonstrably sick. An ill person. Medically speaking, it never, ever referred to someone who was asymptomatic or who had no symptoms of illness.
However in the COVID scamdemic, the term has been hijacked and re-defined to include anyone who tests positive with the highly flawed COVID PCR test. As Merritt emphatically states, “That is not epidemiology. That’s fraud.”

Posted by: Ed | Oct 7 2020 15:54 utc | 192

“submitting to this mass obscenity”……
it’s an interesting catchphrase….. is the present neo-liberal agenda mass obscenity?? i think it is… no one frames it in this context though….

Posted by: james | Oct 7 2020 16:00 utc | 193

@Circe #188
Your track record is such that I take comfort in knowing that whatever you say, will almost 100% likely be wrong.
But let’s take a look at your rejoinder to my comment.
You said:

1) The greatest number of international flights come into New York, Chicago and L.A. Therefore that’s why they suffered the greatest number of Covid infections in February and March and had to take the strictest measures to contain it.

The busiest airport in the US is Atlanta. According to your logic, it should therefore have a top 3 COVID problem, and Georgia with it. Dallas is busier than New York. Busiest airports in US
Conclusion: You’re wrong. Again.
You said:

2) Blue states generate higher GDP than Red States and are the most underfunded by the Administration. So in this crisis, they would be the most vulnerable and have the greatest challenge salvaging businesses.

GDP has nothing to do with numbers of businesses. Unless you can prove that there are *more* businesses per unit of population in blue states vs. red, the amount of dollars flowing through said economy is very much secondary.
Or put another way: the identical restaurant in Manhattan vs. Orlando – the NY restaurant would have 4x or more rent, 2x to 3x pay rates and higher menu prices accordingly. “GDP” for said NY restaurant is higher, but unless there are more restaurants per 100K New Yorkers, GDP is irrelevant to rate of closures per restaurants in business.
Conclusion: You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You said:

3) Your site’s statistics also show that in permanent closures Texas and Florida’s were higher than Ilinois and New York! If California’s was the highest it’s because it also has the highest GDP and has been dealing with Covid and fires. While Florida’s permanent closures are higher than New York and yet NY has a higher GDP than Florida.

Illinois population: 12.74M
New York population: 19.54M
Texas population: 28.7M
Florida population: 21.67M
Florida has 10% more people than New York – so a 10% higher permanent closure rate is not “more”, it is equal.
California fires: no, sorry. No fires in SF or LA. The fires were in the boonies in Northern CA and Oregon.
Texas has 2.25 times more people than Illinois and 1.47 times more people than New York.
Texas permanent closures are 2.34 times more than Illinois and 1.39 times more than New York, so you are correct but not to the degree you think, particularly since you cherry picked permanent vs. temporary (of which the difference is enormous).
Still, the tiebreaking vote is cities. New York City somehow has more permanent closures (7.1K) than New York State (6.4K). Hmmm? Most likely the New York State data is suspect or an error.
Net net: a partial good point but mostly due to a broken clock being right twice a day, since you still focused on GDP which is irrelevant and you also clearly did not even consider population differences.
You said:

I’d say Chicago, ranked 5th in GDP, did very well.

Except Chicago had a really short lockdown – because the courts stopped Governor Pritzker from extending it. Oops!
Overall: I am very comfortable that your impeccable record of being wrong, is still intact.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 7 2020 16:13 utc | 194

james | Oct 7 2020 16:00 utc | 194
“is the present neo-liberal agenda mass obscenity?? i think it is… no one frames it in this context though….”
Of course it is, and that’s exactly one of the correct frames for the terror-lockdown assault which uses covid as its pretext,
as I’ve detailed in numerous pieces.
Like for example this one, conveniently titled Covid in Globalist Context
and which begins,
“Covid-19 and the terror-lockdown offensive which uses it as a pretext comprise a purely globalist project, and those who perpetrate or support
globalization are responsible for this epidemic…”

Posted by: Russ | Oct 7 2020 16:14 utc | 195

to CIUE 195
@Circe #188
Your track record is such that I take comfort in knowing that whatever you say, will almost 100% likely be wrong.
But let’s take a look at your rejoinder to my comment.
You said:
1) The greatest number of international flights come into New York, Chicago and L.A. Therefore that’s why they suffered the greatest number of Covid infections in February and March and had to take the strictest measures to contain it.
The busiest airport in the US is Atlanta. According to your logic, it should therefore have a top 3 COVID problem, and Georgia with it. Dallas is busier than New York. Busiest airports in US
Conclusion: You’re wrong. Again.
Well Circe mentionned INTERNATIONAL flights. Not busiest airports. Atlanta is busy because of domestic flights
using it as a hub.
So Circe is right and you did not read well enough what she said.

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 7 2020 16:33 utc | 196

Russ wrote
“Covid-19 and the terror-lockdown offensive which uses it as a pretext comprise a purely globalist project, and those who perpetrate or support globalization are responsible for this epidemic…”
________________
Covid has done more to shut down borders and isolate popilations than anything else I can think of.
that doesn’t fit very well in with the usual globalism story.
Covid has also disrupted international trade and foreign direct investment.
If the people who perpetrate or support globalization are responsible for this epidemic it sure looks to me that they have been shooting themselves in the foot in a big way.
If all the evidence did not contradict your claims, you might be taken more seriously.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 7 2020 16:51 utc | 197

So far I have yet to see even one logical reason given why this “scamdemic” is a scam.
Only some kind of conspiracy theories that don’t stand even the slightest whiff test.

Posted by: arby | Oct 7 2020 17:01 utc | 198

From my personal experience with dexamethazone via a relative smalldose that lasts about 3 days every two weeks in connection with chemo for cancer (steroids have a definite hyper effect on me): Trump is in for bouts of sleeplessness, bizarre dreams, and a short-tempered, uncontrollable tendency to overreact and snarl and rant with complete intolerance about minor things not in tune with whatever gestalt his drug-addled mind has chosen to focus on briefly. Just ask my wife. Dexedrine and methamphetamine ain’t got nothing on this black-beauty/west coast turnaround brand of speed. Think the first debate was wild? Think the tweets can’t get crazier? But I guess the forces in control just want to keep him alive until Nov 2 and will control what gets out. And the motherfucker may be well used to it.

Posted by: defaultcitizen | Oct 7 2020 17:09 utc | 199

@ Posted by: c1ue | Oct 7 2020 16:13 utc | 195
People (specially from the right-wing of the American political specter) like to paint Chicago as some kind of leftist/socialist failure within American territory (with its high proportion of blacks, high crime rate etc. etc.).
But, in fact, Chicago is one of the most important financial centers in the world. In some specific areas of finance, it is even bigger (and more important) than New York itself. It’s not by chance that Obama – in a moment of most need by Wall Street – came from Chicago (senator of Illinois).
Don’t let those right-wing fairy tales fool you: Chicago is, by capitalist standards, one of the most successful and prosperous cities in the world, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: vk | Oct 7 2020 17:12 utc | 200