Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 06, 2020

Why Trump Returned To The White House

Yesterday President Donald Trump revealed this interesting re-election strategy:


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This is a Hail Mary strike taken at high personal risk.

Trump was certainly not well enough to get released from the hospital.

It is not really known when Trump got infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and when he fell ill with Covid-19. The treatments his doctors said they used with him are somewhat conflicting. After Trump was diagnosed with Covid-19 he was given a high dose of monoclonal antibodies which directly attack the virus and lessen the overall growth of viruses. The antiviral drug remdesivir which lowers virus RNA production was also given:

[I]t would seem that if you’re going to give monoclonal antibodies, that they would be best given early in the course of the disease, when therapy is still in antiviral mode. The addition of a five-day course of remdesivir to the treatment regimen fits that as well: both of these are designed to lower the amount of virus present and (in theory) keep the disease from progressing to a more severe stage.

Both therapies make most sense in the first phase of a virus infection when it is still only in the upper part of the respiratory system. In that phase the normal immune system is still building up its defenses. But Trump seems to have already been in the second phase of the infection where the virus is in the lungs and when the immune system starts to attack the body. He at least twice had too little oxygen in his blood likely without feeling it. This "happy hypoxemia" is typical for Covid-19:

The adequacy of gas exchange is primarily determined by the balance between pulmonary ventilation and capillary blood flow, referred as ventilation/perfusion (V/Q) matching. In the initial phase of COVID-19, several mechanisms contribute to the development of arterial hypoxemia, without a concomitant increase in work of breathing. Rapid clinical deterioration may occur.

At that stage Trump was brought to the Walter Reed hospital and began the antiviral therapy. But his illness must have worsened. After his second day in the hospital his doctors announced that he had been given the corticosteroid dexamethasone:

[The] severe stage shows up as an overactive immune response leading to the well-known “cytokine storm”, and potentially big trouble. It really looks like the best therapy we have for that at the moment is dexamethasone. So I found it interesting – and not in a good way – that the president’s medical team had actually put him on dexamethasone, because its mode of action is to damp down the inflammation response. And if a person is still in the early stages of infection, that’s the opposite of what you want to do.

The doctors also said that Trump's chest CT showed what they 'expected' without describing what that was. It likely means that the virus had started to attack the lungs:

Due to increased lung edema (leading to ground-glass opacities and consolidation on chest imaging), loss of surfactant and superimposed pressure, alveolar collapse ensues and a substantial fraction of the cardiac output is perfusing non-aerated lung tissue, resulting in intrapulmonary shunting.

That increased the need to give additional oxygen and to start with the anti-inflammatory steroid.


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If the disease can not be stopped at that point, the next dangerous consequences, small blood clots (microthrombi) are likely to occur. Trump will have to take some kind of blood thinner to prevent those from causing a stroke.

No sane doctor would at that point release a patient from the hospital.

But Trump wanted to be back in the White House. He calculated that he needs to show that the virus can be beaten.

He has no other chance to win the election. The people rightly believe that he screwed up the U.S. response to the pandemic. Even older voters who voted for Trump in 2016 are now saying that will vote against him:

In a recent Washington Post-ABC poll, 52 percent of likely voters over 65 supported Biden, compared with 47 percent for President Trump. Four years ago, Trump won those voters over Hillary Clinton.

Trump was warned of this early on. As Tomas Pueyo wrote back in April:

The older you are, the more likely you are to both vote Republican and die from the coronavirus. Voters aged 80+ are 80 times more likely to die from the coronavirus than those under 40 (16% fatality rate vs. ~0.2%).

This effect is strong enough that people who voted for Trump in the 2016 election are around 30% more likely to die from the coronavirus than Democrats. In some swing states from the 2016 election, such as Pennsylvania, if the coronavirus were to run wild, this effect alone could have wiped out up to 30% of the gap between Republicans and Democrats in the 2016 election.

Trump can no longer convince the voters, especially the older ones, that he did everything to protect them from the virus. What he probably still can do is to convince them that it does not matter because the virus can be beaten.

To do that Trump had to make himself the showcase.

I do not want to suggest that Trump intentionally infected himself. But he did pretty much everything one should not do if one wants to prevent that.

Trump is relatively old, he has additional risk factors and despite that he now can say that he has beaten the virus. Should nothing further happen to him there is no way that anyone can doubt that.

His real message in this White House video is: "I have beaten it. You can beat it. The virus does not really matter. Just carry on."

That message, in various variants, will now get repeated every day. Some people will start to believe it and it may indeed help Trump to win the upcoming election.

There are risks in that strategy. Some of those who recently got infected in the White House may die. That would lead to accusations that Trump has caused that by being careless.

Another risk, and a personal one that Trump is taking, is the fact that he has not yet beaten the virus. He may still need oxygen. His lungs are still impacted and will take many weeks to heal. This virus is insidious. There is a risk that there will be some kind of relapse or complication that will need additional treatment in Walter Reed. The White House is equipped for medical emergencies but not for the intensive care that often follows. Should Trump need to go back into the hospital his strategy will likely fail.

Trump will still get dexamethasone. That drug has side effects and withdrawal from it can be tricky:

  • The production of corticosteroids is controlled by a "feedback mechanism," involving the adrenal glands, the pituitary gland, and brain, known as the "hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis" (HPAA).
  • Using large doses for a few days, or smaller doses for more than two weeks, leads to a prolonged decrease in HPAA function.
  • Steroid use cannot be stopped abruptly; tapering the drug gives the adrenal glands time to return to their normal patterns of secretion.
  • Withdrawal symptoms and signs (weakness, fatigue, decreased appetite, weight loss, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain) can mimic many other medical problems. Some may be life-threatening.

It is unlikely that Trump will soon go back on the campaign trail. He can be happy if he has enough energy for the next TV debate with Joe Biden. He will probably need additional drugs to sustain it.

When the British prime minister Boris Johnson fell ill with Covid-19 his approval in the polls increased. We have not seen that effect for Trump. But the polls may be wrong. They were wrong in 2016 because many who were asked did not want to admit that they would vote for Trump. That effect may now be even stronger than it was back then.

Trump's return to the White House is sending message of confidence. It is likely that it will bring him additional votes.

By deciding to leave the hospital early Trump showed his willingness to take a significant personal risk to achieve his reelection. One may hate the bastard and still admire him for that.

Posted by b on October 6, 2020 at 18:01 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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His o2 sats never went below 90... we don't even prescribe oxygen in the us for patients unless there 02 sat run consistently at below 90% ... I suspect he was given 02 as a precaution... Sorry B... great that you report your observations but is clear you are not a health care provider.

Posted by: dp | Oct 6 2020 18:10 utc | 1

"Trump was certainly not well enough to get released from the hospital."

Dear B, You have no possible knowledge of Trump's condition. If he was released (after three days of treatment), his doctors must have thought he was well enough. There have been many people with mild symptoms, perhaps a substantial majority of all the cases. The medical profession in the US is nowhere near as corrupt as you are implying.

Posted by: bob sykes | Oct 6 2020 18:13 utc | 2

This one should get B chuckling:

Pentagon Joint Chiefs of Staff all in Quarantine!

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2020/10/06/top-military-leadership-quarantines-after-coast-guard-vice-commandant-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

This Administration really deserves a Darwin award

Posted by: Et Tu | Oct 6 2020 18:17 utc | 3

I see it somewhat different:
It was clear from the beginning that Trump's COVID-19 infection would bring him additional votes. But not for any of the reasons you mentioned b, but because of the social media reactions by the TDS fraction.
"Hope you die" and similar, are much stronger than possible negligence by Trump regarding the February/March federal response.
And even Michael Moore shot himself in the foot, this time.

Posted by: michael | Oct 6 2020 18:21 utc | 4

A quote from a news article about Trump:

"Conley said Trump was doing “well” late Thursday into early Friday and showed only mild symptoms at that time. But by late Friday morning, Trump had a high fever, and his blood oxygen level dipped below 94%, Conley said.

Trump was then given supplemental oxygen for “about an hour,” despite the president insisting he didn’t need it, Conley said."

Now, according to the Mayo clinic, the threshold for being concerned about oxygen levels in a patient is 90 percent. Indeed, measuring myself with a pulse-oximeter, I have seen my oxygen levels temporarily drop to 94 percent, and I was not ill at the time. It is also true that oxygen levels of 99 or 100 percent are not desireable, sa the function of the blood is to deliver oxygen to the organs of the body. A 100 percent reading can indicate that the blood is not releasing oxygen quickly enough.

So, is Trump really dangerously ill? I think the jury is still out on this one. It is a distinct possibility that he has received various treatments because he has been bullying his doctors. Given the power dynamics of the situation--this is the President of the US--and Trump's known personality, the patient telling the doctors what to do seems likely.

Posted by: R.A. | Oct 6 2020 18:24 utc | 5

@dp

Or maybe the government is lying, and the fact that oxygen was administered is evidence that Trump's O2 in fact went under 90.

Posted by: lysias | Oct 6 2020 18:30 utc | 6

The shit show continues....


I am going go go out on a short limb and posit that Trump will be dead within a week.

Trump does not do well with authority like in a hospital and knows his days are limited so moved back to a space he can control.

We know Trump is still on dexamethasone and I expect it to be one of the causes of his death...along with a heart attack. But, will they call it Covid caused?

The part of me that has healed from trauma similar to that which Trump was subjected to by his father feels sorry Trump and others like him who choose to project their hurt on others. The bullies of the world are very hurt people and that disregulation of their neural networks can be remediated, just like what I did to heal myself. If our world can survive long enough for the neuromodulation techniques that I used to mature and expand their availability, I am confident we can evolve our species to another level of being that will deprecate rule of bully leadership.

It will be interesting to see what Trump tries to accomplish before expiring.

Is this how empire falls?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 6 2020 18:30 utc | 7

>>When the British prime minister Boris Johnson fell ill with Covid-19 his approval in the polls increased. We have not seen that effect for Trump.

There was a significant embarrasment in the US case becasue a whole cluster of infected people emerged in the White House and among GoP politicians.

The US case is a glaring case of negligence.

The White House and the President's circle are supposed to be the most protected area in the planet.

Also Trump, unlike Johnson, has tried to avoid responsibility by constantly crying about "China virus". It sounds like loser behavior. He failed to contain it, unlike other countries, and then someone else is always to blame.

Fact is, though, people are dying in the USA. They are (mostly) not dying in China, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, or Taiwan.

There are pool parties in Wuhan and lockdowns in New York.

It becomes increasingly harder to hide the miserable reality of the US and Western Europe and the one of China, with its opened economy moving full steam ahead.

Posted by: Passer by | Oct 6 2020 18:32 utc | 8

Trump shouldn't have been released. He needs to be kept in a negatively pressurized room. Or at least set up in a quarantined tent with controlled airflow. We won't know how bad Trump's condition is until day 9. Trump presented symptoms of infection 7 days ago. Trump clearly isn't out of the woods yet, and likely walked out of hospital against medical advice. As someone else here said, this is likely a case of the patient telling the doctors what to do -- Trump driving his own course of treatment. Yes, US healthcare is corrupt, in different expressions though depending on your class status.

Posted by: David | Oct 6 2020 18:33 utc | 9

It is not really known when Trump got infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and when he fell ill with Covid-19.

There is no indication he got infected with anything. Testing positive is not proof of anything. The fact that he returned quickly is a sign that this was an election stunt more than anything else. At the same time he managed to discredit the hysteria.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:34 utc | 10

You people really are grasping at straws when faced with this narrative creator called Trump. Same with the MSM. Can't leave him alone. Can't form a coherent story without him in it. B stick to SITREPs of far away places that aren't easy to debunk

Posted by: Jezabeel | Oct 6 2020 18:36 utc | 11

@Norwegian

So you think the report that he had fever is a lie?

Posted by: lysias | Oct 6 2020 18:37 utc | 12


boy I missed who posted this link but it is a hot potatoe.. its claims
class actions in tort, fraud, and crimes against humanity are immient because
there is not way the PCT test used by the corrupt nation state system and its agencyes
can detect Corona virus whoever posted it thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr04gHbP5MQ&app=desktop

Posted by: snake | Oct 6 2020 18:37 utc | 13

I forgot to add: Trump's condition could take a turn for the worse on/about day 9, which is unofficially the worst day for COVID patients in terms of the impact. Trump brashly went against medical advice and struggled to present a public image of good health. He, his staffers, his administration, and his campaign will pay dearly for it. I'm not exaggerating when I say Trump could be dead within two or three weeks, considering his advanced age and weight. Herman Cain died within a month of his diagnosis. Boris Johnson is 18 years younger than Trump, not as overweight and is still a shell of his former self months after "recovering" from COVID. Re-infection is also a possibility (very possible in Trump's case?), as is incomplete recovery. He'd be even less capable of carrying out executive tasks than he was before onset of symptoms. In any case, as b noted, this is a big Trumpian gamble and his campaign is likely doomed. Trump is leaving office, whether his staffers invoke the 25th or whether he gets voted out, or whether he dies by month's end. But he is categorically out.

Posted by: David | Oct 6 2020 18:40 utc | 14

@psychohistorian | Oct 6 2020 18:30 utc | 7

I am going go go out on a short limb and posit that Trump will be dead within a week.

Nice, a testable hypothesis! So it is timeout October 13 then.

So when he does not expire, what will you have learned?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:43 utc | 15

@lysias | Oct 6 2020 18:37 utc | 12
He pretends to be struck by the pretend disease so he can pretend to have beaten it. Since the last few months have proven that you can get away with anything, it is a winner.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:49 utc | 16

But the polls may be wrong. They were wrong in 2016 because many who were asked did not want to admit that they would vote for Trump.

No, the pre-2016 election polling was "wrong" because such polling is still largely based on land line surveys, and whether or not voters are being polled on a land line or a cell phone, almost all of them screen calls in some manner, many rarely pick up phone calls from unrecognized numbers.

As for election day 2016 exit polling being wrong, no, there's solid evidence Trump stole the Michigan "win", or had it stolen for him, and the Michigan exit polls saying Hillary won the state are correct. (However, of course HRC lost the 2016 nomination to Sanders and had to have her "win" arranged.) But HRC explicitly gave up the opportunity to have Michigan fully recounted.

Florida 2016 general election exit polling also says that HRC won Florida, but Trump's "win" there was by a much bigger percentage than in Michigan. So there was no effort to recount Florida in 2016.

Pretty certain that Pennsylvania exit polling also shows HRC winning against Trump there, but that state uses a lot of "voting" machines which are wholly computer based and leave no paper records to check.

Posted by: Jay | Oct 6 2020 18:54 utc | 17

Thanks B, but Trump hat no choise. Must try this. And in my opinion will succeed.
What is ?
Don't let IT dominate your life.
Sound GREAT.
This COVID-19 is something serious, but not more than many. Life is a fatal desease.
In France, very interesting move from some courageous high scientist medics.
And something like that
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/st-paul-coronavirus-hospital-homeless-shelter
What des that mean to close an Hospital in Minneapolis and fire hundred of médicales workers if this desease is really dangerous for a country.
I think that Trump can't say, but I DO:

Don't let THEM dominate your life.

Posted by: MichaelW | Oct 6 2020 18:55 utc | 18

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:49 utc | 16

You haven't seen the video of Trump on the balcony of the White House obviously in pain to breathe, have you?
All faking I guess...

Posted by: v | Oct 6 2020 18:56 utc | 19

And à little question more... So many COVID-19 case in WH, all together, just in time for election Day or Scotus nomination.
Any suspicion ?

Posted by: MichaelW | Oct 6 2020 18:59 utc | 20

Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:49 utc | 16
They also said Friday night he was checking in for a three day stay at WR, how could they possibly known that?

Posted by: George | Oct 6 2020 19:03 utc | 21

Many key members of the Russian govt got infected - disappeared for a while and came back including the Prime Minister.
As far as I can tell there was no hysteria over there about this - they kept calm and carried on

Covid19 infection is not a death sentence for the vast majority of people

I am frankly fed up with the hysteria when an infection is announced.

1.You can be asymptomatic
2.You can have mild infection
3.You can end up in hospital needed oxygen
4. You can die

I don’t know where Trump is on the spectrum - or any of the people in the White House.

Wish this illness was viewed calmly and not politically and that’s what I think many outside the media bubble wish. So that they can get on with their lives


Posted by: James2 | Oct 6 2020 19:04 utc | 22

psychohistorian 18:30 7

"We know Trump is still on dexamethasone and I expect it to be one of the causes of his death...along with a heart attack. But, will they call it Covid caused?"

I would call it Tronald-caused... a special form of suicide. Suicide by poll maybe. His problem being not to be able to loose.

Posted by: pnyx | Oct 6 2020 19:16 utc | 23

Posted by: snake | Oct 6 2020 18:37 utc |

Wow, this guy is obviously a vulture attorney by the sheer quantity of lies he puts in his speech.
I stopped listening after he called the virus "Wuhan Virus from China".

Thanks anyway!

Posted by: v | Oct 6 2020 19:20 utc | 24

@George | Oct 6 2020 19:03 utc | 21

They also said Friday night he was checking in for a three day stay at WR, how could they possibly known that?

Well, there's your answer. Planned.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 19:21 utc | 25

Clearly Trump is so toxic that even The Virus (TM)(Pat Pend) faced defeat.

Posted by: Ken Garoo | Oct 6 2020 19:22 utc | 26

"his blood oxygen level dipped below 94%, Conley said."
Like 93.9? Which is not a low blood oxygen level.
I've a family member who relies on oxygen- oxygen levels are checked regularly in my family members case
Normal blood oxygen levels can dip as low as 95%

It feels like you are grasping? Or should I say gasping?
AS for the idiocy of the 'democrat' class when Trump having Covid was reported, including here....
True colours, I guess?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptoms/hypoxemia/basics/definition/sym-20050930

Values under 90 percent are considered low.
Trump "low" wasn't low at all

Posted by: R Rose | Oct 6 2020 19:27 utc | 27

I think it utterly possible that Trump was not ill at all. He is the master of alternative realities.

But even if he did test positive his chance to survive is over 95 percent.

If USians vote with covid-19 fear in their mind they will vote for Biden, if the economy is in their mind they will vote for Trump.

In communication you preferably show something, that is what Trump just did.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 6 2020 19:29 utc | 28

What do you mean the polls **may** be wrong?

So you actually believe the hilarious poll numbers they are putting out- depsite all that happened- in 2016?!?

Tut tut. You're wrong. But we will confirm soon enough I guess.

In the meantime, I swear, something happens to this blog whenever Trump, Hydroxychloroquine and/or other medications are mentioned. Here we go again....

Posted by: Skeletor | Oct 6 2020 19:38 utc | 29

Dear B, have you ever experienced pheumonia ? or a severe chest infection ? I have, severe chest infections several times.

I had been a private glider and power pilot for many years so I am more than familiar with the expected effects of anoxia (euphoria), but, even though my blood oxygen would have been reduced during the pneumonia and chest infections what I experienced wasn't euphoria - it was an inability to concentrate and a general feeling of lassitude.

So, happy hypoxaemia? Not in my experience.

Posted by: Derrick | Oct 6 2020 19:45 utc | 30

Norwegian @15: "So when he does not expire, what will you have learned?"

We will learn that the insanity of Trump Derangement Syndrome can descend to levels we have not yet imagined could exist.

Of course, I am not referring to psychohistorian here as that poster doesn't exhibit any symptoms of TDS, but we will be treated to the spectacle of other posters flying into frustrated and impotent rages at Trumps's continued refusal to die for them.

It will be fascinating.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 6 2020 19:45 utc | 31


I'm leaning towards Trump faking this illness for sympathy votes. Time will tell.

Posted by: Ian2 | Oct 6 2020 19:48 utc | 32

There's no need to speculate about the outcome. If Trump doesn't get sicker before October 14 then he'll recover.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 6 2020 19:49 utc | 33

i've been thinking of this, myself:

https://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/30/avlon.reagan.shooting/index.html

"In the wake of the assassination attempt, Reagan's approval ratings jumped -- providing a new baseline that propelled his legislative agenda forward and helped translate to his broad-based re-election. By the 100th day of his administration, 51% of Democrats supported him and 70% of independents in addition to 92% of Republicans."

and so has this writer (who makes a good point):

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-10-02/when-reagan-shot-country-rallied-he-hadnt-spent-months-downplaying-assassins

though bush's incompetence/malevolence/both caused/planned/____ed? 9/11 he shot up in the polls as well. it was also after stealing an election (like russiagate except with americans so...amerigate?) and being a typical fratboy slackass for months on end. i've given up on trying to figure out what voter types find important.

Posted by: the pair | Oct 6 2020 19:52 utc | 34

2 things... more media exposure for trump and covid.... i am not sure the net result of this... hard to believe anything these days, especially with regard to trump! i will believe it when i see it..

Posted by: james | Oct 6 2020 19:54 utc | 35

Covid-19 blocks pain, gives opioid high:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//
SciTechDaily -- 10/6/20
Scientists Discover SARS-CoV-2 Infection Can Relieve Pain – May Help Explain COVID-19 Spread

Research shows SARS-CoV-2 promotes pain relief through the receptor neuropilin-1, which gives scientists a new target for non-opioid pain therapeutics and offers one possible explanation for the unrelenting spread of COVID-19.

SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, can relieve pain, according to a new study by University of Arizona Health Sciences researchers.

The finding may explain why nearly half of all people who get COVID-19 experience few or no symptoms, even though they are able to spread the disease, according to the study’s corresponding author Rajesh Khanna, PhD, a professor in the UArizona College of Medicine – Tucson’s Department of Pharmacology.
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: blues | Oct 6 2020 19:55 utc | 36

one more note: as he was walking to the plane it looked like his left arm was limp and dead until he did a lame jerk wave (think seinfeld's "casual sieg heil"). he also looked white-ish which is strange for him.

Posted by: the pair | Oct 6 2020 19:55 utc | 37

@ the pair - he forgot to put on all his make up... i don't know who does that for him, but it is caked up pretty thick in most pics i see of him... the hospital pics were a departure from that..

Posted by: james | Oct 6 2020 19:58 utc | 38

Anyone here ever been to an "oxygen bar"? They are establishments where you can go to imbibe oxygen recreationally.

There is a difference between oxygen being administered and needing oxygen to be administered. Not enough oxygen will certainly kill you, but a little extra is rarely a problem. For the President, it doesn't hurt to err on the side of "a little extra" where O2 is concerned.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 6 2020 19:59 utc | 39

@William Gruff | Oct 6 2020 19:45 utc | 31

We will learn that the insanity of Trump Derangement Syndrome can descend to levels we have not yet imagined could exist.
I have a hard time imagining even lower levels. But I guess that's your point.
we will be treated to the spectacle of other posters flying into frustrated and impotent rages at Trumps's continued refusal to die for them.
It will indeed be fascinating. There is room for speculation about why the TDS is so strong, given the insanity of US policies and presidents the last 60 years.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 20:06 utc | 40

Every "fact" that we "know" about the Trump being used to draw conclusions here has been provided directly or indirectly by the Trump.

The only conclusion I can draw so far is an old obese man has to take a couple of deep breaths after walking up some stairs.

Posted by: Randy | Oct 6 2020 20:12 utc | 41

William Gruff | Oct 6 2020 19:59 utc | 39:

Pure oxygen can definitely be harmful, and shouldn’t be administered without medical necessity. Just because some sharp people have figured out they can get money from the gullible at “oxygen bars” doesn’t change that fact.

I genuinely have no idea which side of this silly discussion about Trump saying that puts me on, but I thought I’d point it out.

Posted by: David G | Oct 6 2020 20:15 utc | 42

Trump's return to the White House is sending message of confidence. It is likely that it will bring him additional votes.

By deciding to leave the hospital early Trump showed his willingness to take a significant personal risk to achieve his reelection. One may hate the bastard and still admire him for that.

That only makes sense if we were in a pre-modern medicine era, facing a disease we can't comprehend and over which we have absolutely no control of.

But we don't live in such an era. We know how the virus is, and we're actively working to prevent its spreading (lockdown) and to literally cure it (many experimental drugs and treatments; vaccines). In this era, superstition and personality cult don't work - or, to be more precise, shouldn't work.

Let's make a quick mental exercise. Which of these two illustrative cases inspire more "confidence" on the populace?

1) Trump's happy ride out of the hospital; or

2) This? (or even this)

As a Marxist, I will not stop here. Ignoring those bullshit liberal idealist views of the world as pure individualistic subjectivity, let me ask the true, the consequential question: which case (1 or 2) will solve the economic problems put before them? Which will make GDP grow? Which will create jobs? Which will open the path to sustained economic growth for the foreseeable future? Because that's what matters when the cookie crumbles.

Posted by: vk | Oct 6 2020 20:20 utc | 43

@ Norwegian asking me what I will learn if Trump doesn't die in a week.

I suggest reading The Art of Conjecture by de Jouvenel for some of the background on my future positing.

By the end of a week I will get a feeling of how far Trump spread the virus to the WH staff, press and public. What will be the symptomatic response of these folks? Will they live through it like Trump is suggesting he is?

If Trump lives another week I think his chances of dying from the virus go down significantly but he may have ongoing health issues. If he lives it will tell me that some of my friends that are as potential victims of the virus as Trump may live through getting the virus.

I posited that Trump is going to die based on my mythological reading of the entrails of owls, not any TDS feelings I might have.....I actually harbor worse feelings towards "We came, we saw, he died." Clinton than Trump.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 6 2020 20:20 utc | 44

First point I'll make is the observation that people residing within the Outlaw US Empire are the most unhealthiest people on the planet, which is why they die from COVID-19 at a substantially higher rate.

Second point I'll make is there's no way for us to know if Trump's infection is genuine, nor do we know the veracity of all statements made relative to this event. Given his Treason--and IMO he knows he's Treasonous--he'll do whatever he thinks will allow him to get away with his Big Time Crime--worse than anything else he's done overseas.

Third point is the "guns" of Hybrid Warfare continue to fire away, which hints at Trump not being in control of that policy.

Fourth point is we know the government's doing all it can to mask the severity of the nation's economic health as it continues to lie about most everything is that regard.

Fifth point is we have empirical evidence that Trump's failed at his most important campaign talking point: To Make America Great Again by getting back the jobs that were sent overseas, "'Promises Made, Workers Betrayed': Trump Gave $425 Billion in Federal Contracts to Corporations That Offshored 200,000 Jobs" during his term. All Biden need do is emphasize that point over and again to beat Trump as that's baggage Trump can't afford.

Sixth point is that Neofeudal debt deflation is already here, will grow worse and won't change because both parties form the Parasitic Kleptocracy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2020 20:30 utc | 45

@ Posted by: dp | Oct 6 2020 18:10 utc | 1

The patient is POTUS himself. It's normal for the doctor to be much more careful with their margins of tolerance when his/her patient is more important than an ordinary one.

In this case, it could simply be that the doctor was overly afraid to let the POTUS die in his hands one month from the election day, and, foreseeing the inevitable (i.e. that his saturation would fall below 90%), ministered oxygen before the inevitable materialized. It doesn't mean Trump's saturation wouldn't fall below 90% - it certainly would: the doctor simply treated a more important patient with a better care than normal (he also doesn't want to go to Guantanamo to die by torture and disease if he dies under his care).

Posted by: vk | Oct 6 2020 20:30 utc | 46

David G @42

I have not bothered to check because I considered it highly unlikely, but have we been told that Trump was being administered pure oxygen? As well, the masks usually used in hospitals to administer O2 are rarely airtight, so even if 100% pure O2 is being fed to the mask, the patient is getting a mix of 50% or less. This would never be problematic for short durations unless the patient needs a higher concentration.

Basically, has it been announced that Trump was being administered pure O2, as would be the case with say a diver experiencing the bends?

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 6 2020 20:33 utc | 47

Does anybody remember the mysterious "covfefe" tweet? Now it is revealed that Trump was foretelling the pandemic and that he himself would get covid fever. The man is a profit, I tell you!

Posted by: farm ecologist | Oct 6 2020 20:36 utc | 48

i am not sure if he is either a profit or a prophet!

Posted by: james | Oct 6 2020 20:41 utc | 49

The Swedes have herd immunity. This alone confirms Trumps view to the maximal degree. The rest is noise. Under normal conditions, the Swedish case alone with its 10.000.000 people-case-sample suffices to end the discussion. But not in this plandemic.

Trump for once is right, like him or detest him: It is a flu. I say this not only as a person who'd received training in epidemiology but, besides, has a first row seat to watch the situation in the city of Munich, Bavaria: Currently not 1 f*cking patient in treatment for Covid-19. There is neither an excess mortality nor a significant number of patients who suffer long term damages to the heart or lungs to speak of. A handful of repeat infections worldwide (probably a data taking artefact).

Accept it, all you ill-guided, self-acclaimed, panic-stricken Covid-19-armchair-crusaders: Your case has fallen apart big style. Time to accept defeat and call it a day.

Posted by: Johannes | Oct 6 2020 20:45 utc | 50

It is appalling from a safety standpoint that doctors released Trump from the hospital while he is still sick. He is contagious, he can infect others so he is a biohazard. It should not matter does if he feel good or great or whatever. He is still shedding viruses so he should be isolated, quarantined.
The most outrageous display of double standards.

Posted by: hopehely | Oct 6 2020 20:46 utc | 51

It's also a very high risk gambit for the doctors at Walter Reed & at the Whitehouse to release him if he is not ready, unless you believe all this crap about "Hitler's Doctor" that the media push. It's not going to do their careers any good to release him if he then keels over and dies. Better to make him check himself out "Against Medical Advice" if he is crazy enough to do it.

Way I see it it's a doctors compromise between keeping him in the hospital a few more days, with a promise to behave when he gets out, and him freaking out and making himself much sicker due to frustration and anxiety. Although it may seem unusual to recover so quickly he does, by virtue of his position, have some of the best doctors in the world on his case.

Posted by: kibitzer | Oct 6 2020 20:59 utc | 52

Posted by: Johannes | Oct 6 2020 20:45 utc | 50

I disagree.

Compared to their scandinavian neighbours, the swedes are not doing that great (2-5 times the # of cases and 5-10 times the # of deaths per capita compared to norway, finland and denmark; https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) so I don't understand why so many people use them as a shining example of how to deal with Covid infections.

The lethality of the virus admittedly is much less now than 6 months ago in most places, and this likely reflects our learning over time how better to treat symptoms and minimize disease progression. It's also possible that the virus is mutating to less harmful forms.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Oct 6 2020 21:05 utc | 53

Ferrick @30
So, happy hypoxaemia? Not in my experience.
____________________________

Your experience is not with covid.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6490/455

Posted by: jinn | Oct 6 2020 21:09 utc | 54

Seriously, WTF???

Sat, Oct 3, 2020:
President Donald Trump pressured Congress to pass a coronavirus stimulus plan Saturday as his administration and congressional Democrats struggle to forge a relief deal.
In a tweet sent as the president receives treatment for Covid-19 at Walter Reed Medical Center, the president wrote, “OUR GREAT USA WANTS & NEEDS STIMULUS.” 

“WORK TOGETHER AND GET IT DONE. Thank you!” he continued. 
-------

Mon, Oct 5:
Pelosi and Mnuchin spoke for about an hour and agreed to share written proposals on Tues. morning when they will talk again.
----------

Tues. morning, Oct 6:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin will speak Tuesday as they continue negotiations over another round of coronavirus stimulus. There are indications that the two sides are getting closer, with Rep. Ted Lieu (D., Calif.), a member of the speaker’s leadership team, telling Bloomberg that Democrats would accept “somewhat less” than the $2.2 trillion they have proposed.
--------------

Also Tues. morning, Oct 6 :
The head of the U.S. Federal Reserve,Jerome Powell, said Tuesday that the economy could suffer if another round of coronavirus relief isn’t signed into law.
------------------------

Tues. afternoon, Oct 6: Trump has a private conference call with Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy and Mnuchin, who was scheduled to speak later Tuesday afternoon with Pelosi. On Trump call with GOP leaders, the President signaled he wanted a deal and didn't say he was going to pull the plug on the talks, according to a source familiar with the call. 
----------------

Oct 6, later in day:

Stimulus negotiations are on hold until after the Nov. 3 election, President Donald Trump announced in a tweet on Tuesday. Claiming that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi “is not negotiating in good faith,” Trump said he had instructed his representatives to stop negotiating “until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business.”
-------------

End of business day, Tues, Oct 6: DOW is down 600 points, for those who think this means something (Trump usually does).

-----------
Does he really think this is a winning move? The way things were, people were blaming the Republicans or the Democrats for the lack of action, depending on which side they favor, but this makes the lack of a stimulus package entirely Trump's fault.

Layoffs all over the place, supplemental unemployment benefits and the federal moratorium on evictions expired weeks ago, and the window to apply for PPP loans expired weeks ago, as well. Trump is a fucking retard. Or the dex is making him change his mind from one minute to the next. I don't even care which it is at this point - I just want this blowhard to get the fuck gone already.

Posted by: teri | Oct 6 2020 21:11 utc | 55

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:43 utc | 15

Hit the nail on the head, didn't you?

Posted by: kibitzer | Oct 6 2020 21:20 utc | 56

William Gruff @31

Of course, I am not referring to psychohistorian here as that poster doesn't exhibit any symptoms of TDS, but we will be treated to the spectacle of other posters flying into frustrated and impotent rages at Trumps's continued refusal to die for them.
______________________________________

Anybody who believes the deep state is out to get trump should expect him to get very sick and die in the nerxt week. This is there perfect opportunity to get rid of him and blame it on Covid.

But that won't happen. What will happen is this stunt will help trump get reelected and like all the other stunts (Russiagate, Ukrainegate etc) trump could not have pulled this off without the help of the deep state.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 6 2020 21:22 utc | 57

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:49 utc | 16

Oops .. Hitler's doctor(s)?

Posted by: kibitzer | Oct 6 2020 21:24 utc | 58

Trump’s Covid Debacle

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 6 2020 21:28 utc | 60

I have to agree with Johannes @50
Everyone seems to ignore the numbers out of Sweden... they seem to show they have herd immunity..
although I do no believe the is a "plandemic... the elites are just taking advantage of the situation... for the usual reasons, money and power grabs
Covid does differ significantly from the the flu in several ways , like organ failure as oppose to just dying with pneumonia as is the case with the flu) bearing in mind that both the flu and the virus main target group are the frail. It seems to me the real turning point in the US, was when the deaths started climbing up in New York..Cumuo (an establishment sweetheart) was responsible for letting residence return from the hospital with positive test results, to 700 bed ware house nursing homes ( and i am guessing people in a nursing home like that were poor and on medicaid), a petri dish for the virus. That is happened shortly after the Governor cut medicaid benifits

My earlier comment about Trump and his o2 sats... sure they are going to place the president (or any elite ) on 02 if their sats drop a little... I am betting he normally runs around 96-97 %... Meaning I don't think he was in that much distress.

Posted by: dp | Oct 6 2020 21:29 utc | 61

Posted by: Johannes | Oct 6 2020 20:45 utc | 50

Maybe not.

Swedes are doing much worse than their Scandinavian neighbours (2-5 times as many cases and 5-10 times as many deaths per capita, according to worldometer). It puzzles me that so many hold them up as an example of how best to deal with the pandemic.

Admittedly fatality rates are going down in most places as compared to earlier this year. This likely reflects greater survival as we learn how to treat the disease, and possibly mutation of the virus to less deadly forms.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Oct 6 2020 21:29 utc | 62

karlof1 @58 -

Yeah, that is my point. What the hell is he thinking? It's so stupid - and right before the election. Funny thing about Trump that I have noticed; he always acts like the government's money is his money. If people get tax cuts, or that stimulus money they sent out in March, or some little box of donated food from the Dept of Ag, he demands everyone thank him as though he had personally spent his own money on these things. Likewise, he spends the taxpayers' money on himself, his family and his buddies just as though it were his to pass out, too. And by-passes Congress to redirect money hither and yon as though he were simply rearranging his personal checking accounts.

Man has a weird and childish grasp of what his position is. Unfortunately, Congress has let this go on too long to stop it now. Congress, right this minute, could work out a stimulus package without him, pass it through both houses, and let him dare to veto it. Except I get the feeling that neither party actually wants to do any stimulus either. We are just on our own entirely.

Posted by: teri | Oct 6 2020 21:39 utc | 63

Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:34 utc | 10

There is no indication he got infected with anything. Testing positive is not proof of anything. The fact that he returned quickly is a sign that this was an election stunt more than anything else. At the same time he managed to discredit the hysteria.

There are two video clips of Trump after his discharge from hospital in VT, that show him looking pretty poorly, for what it's worth.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Oct 6 2020 21:47 utc | 64

Ben Bernanke’s helicopters have been grounded by order of Pres. Trump, so no more economic “rescue” crumbs for the starving plebes until Trump gets reinstalled, according to him. Extortion?... or, ‘The Fix is in?

Posted by: norecovery | Oct 6 2020 21:54 utc | 65

@ farm ecologist

Can you read english, Sir? In Sweden Covid-19 is over. Just goto google, type "covid19 death rate sweden" and watch the curve in awe. Not even MSM or the WHO for that mater trie to dispute the success Sweden had in fighting the flu AND avoiding almost all collateral damages. Death rates in Sweden have been high initially as they did nothing to protect those at risk. Government has apologized for that. Death rates are practically zero now.

I tend to prefer reading reports from people who have real insights.

Posted by: Johannes | Oct 6 2020 22:01 utc | 66

It's commonplace to refer to the fog of war. What about the fog of Donald? He is a canny politician in full election mode, and he will do anything to gain a second term.
Twenty-eight sleeps to go.

Posted by: Hal Duell | Oct 6 2020 22:02 utc | 67

"One may hate the bastard and still admire him for that. "

Nope. This is just another example of what has been called his "magical thinking." It's a reflection of his narcissism.

I don't give him credit for anything whatsoever. He is one major scumbag who is a threat to anyone near him and to the rest of us. Fuck him.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 6 2020 22:08 utc | 68

Let's be realistic about all this doom and gloom predictions about Trump's health, even at 74 yrs old and obese the mortality rates for someone of Trumps age and health is around 3.1% from Covid. To put that in perspective the average 1yr mortality rates for a 74yr old man in the US is 3.2% (in other words, if we tracked 100,000 74yr old men roughly 3,200 would die over the course of the next 12 months). So in other words, while this isn't a minor flu the odds of this triggering a major health crisis for Trump are fairly low (but not zero).

Posted by: Kadath | Oct 6 2020 22:08 utc | 69

Posted by: norecovery | Oct 6 2020 21:54 utc | 64

Extortion seems unlikely, it's his money is what he thinks. He's a cheapskate.

I'm at a loss to come up with a rational theory of why he did it, but I'd wager it is something about maintaining his image of being in control. He's an actor, he's always playing himself. The show must go on. It's all he has.

Everybody seems a bit overwrought for the fix to be in, no little self-satisfied smirks now. Self-pity everywhere is more like it. And still a month to go.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 6 2020 22:08 utc | 70

teri @62--

On our own is close to being 100% correct. If you have 45 minutes, I suggest watching the most recent Renegade Inc and this Keiser Report episode. And then if you have more time and still feel able, read this Hudson interview transcript.

Yes, it's all very troubling and disheartening, but IMO it's better to know than to remain in the dark.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2020 22:09 utc | 71

norecovery @64--

Bernanke's been out of the game for awhile. The new Fed Printer in Chief is Jerome Powell. Bernanke left on 1 Feb 2014 and was replaced by Janet Yellen, who lasted 4 years and committed the same crimes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2020 22:15 utc | 72

@karlof1 — Tongue in cheek, surely you know about Bernanke’s famous “helicopter money”? Dropping bills from the sky to stimulate the economy. That’s what the latest feigned attempt at a “stimulus package” includes. Now it’s been blocked by the president’s latest announcement.

Posted by: norecovery | Oct 6 2020 22:33 utc | 73

He pretends to be struck by the pretend disease so he can pretend to have beaten it. Since the last few months have proven that you can get away with anything, it is a winner.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:49 utc | 16

A winner only in your own depraved mind and Trump's.

It's obvious no one in your family ended up on a ventilator dying alone because of Covid and leaving behind kids and a spouse!

There should be a law for such level of willful ignorance that kills.

@62 teri

Mitch McConnell and Trump are guilty on all counts of inflicting hardship, mental cruelty and even death on Americans in the worst crisis in more than half a Century.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 6 2020 22:36 utc | 74

“One may hate the bastard and still admire him for that.”

Nope, sorry, I cannot admire Trump for continuing to minimize the threat of Covid-19 and, as a consequence, promote its spread. The man is a horrid orange narcissist and sociopath. He embodies two personality disorders at the same time, again not something that I can admire.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 6 2020 22:36 utc | 75

karlofi, this is off topic but are you aware that Alfred Russel Wallace- the naturalist whose independent conclusion that life evolved is said to have prompted Darwin to publish his research into the subject- wrote a book Land Nationalisation with conclusions very similar to Henry George's?
Marx wrote to his friend Sorge, on the publication of Progress and Poverty, that " It is a first, if unsuccessful attempt at emancipation from the orthodox political economy."
The importance of George's ideas in sparking movements in Ireland and Scotland that led to the Scottish Land Restoration League -'to restore the Soil of Scotland to the people for whom it was intended' and in Ireland where the Irish Land League is often underestimated.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 6 2020 22:41 utc | 76

@Rob #74: So wearing black masks and slave-trader Kente cloth while taking a knee is not sociopathic narcissism?

Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Oct 6 2020 22:45 utc | 77

If Trump lives, then this will surely give him a great boost.

It is in fact the perfect foil to Democrats blaming Trump for the Covid deaths. Now, Trump will be a living example of his conservative values (not wearing masks as a society for sake of the economy). He will be idolized for pulling himself up by his bootstraps merely for 5 minute pressers and photo ops here and there.

It's brilliant producing of narrative from the Republicans, or possibly even Trump himself, and I don't believe the public at large will be able to mitigate the divisive effects of this stunt ahead of the election, likely with a strong swell of emotional support for Trump from people desperate after months of depressed commerce. Trump will be their shining idol while the liberals will, in Jill's own horror-inducing words, have to swallow Joe Biden.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 6 2020 22:48 utc | 78

Isn't tearing up deals and contracts Trump's signature move?

Posted by: arby | Oct 6 2020 22:52 utc | 79

I just love the fear of death in the morning so prevalent today! Such an absence of any grasp of philosophy, probably just so much impracticality to bother with. Is it any wonder really?

Sports casters also spend your ordinate amounts of time second guessing an outcome, and are invariably mistaken when the subtlety of reality comes to be. Really annoying.

Trump dead in a week, ok, willing to entertain that possibility, but I’d rather let time tell. Thanks for looking into the future for me!

Posted by: Geoff | Oct 6 2020 22:54 utc | 80

Libs will likely be in an even more compromised position having to accept an unknown chosen successor to Biden. The level of manipulation seems to increase with each successive fake election.

Posted by: @Rutherford82 | Oct 6 2020 22:59 utc | 81

#80 was posted by norecovery. Something got messed up by the program.

Posted by: norecovery | Oct 6 2020 23:03 utc | 82

Norwegian | Oct 6 2020 18:49 utc | 16
They also said Friday night he was checking in for a three day stay at WR, how could they possibly known that?

Posted by: George | Oct 6 2020 19:03 utc | 21

It has occurred to me that the three-day stay came about because he really needed it, and, while he was there, they outfitted the White House presidential apartment as a state of the art hospital to be able to keep him there (and pretend that he's doing just fine) no matter how sick he gets.

I agree that he looked BAD on the White House balcony, for the was obviously winded and trying to hide it.

Dr Conley has lied repeatedly, so, there is no reason to trust anything that he says about oxygen level or anything else.

Posted by: RJPJR | Oct 6 2020 23:06 utc | 83

This is the making of history whichever outcome eventuates. So how do the odds look? Option 1 -Trump recovers and remains in the Presidential race - likelihood around 2%. Option 2 - Trump experiences moderate to severe covid symptoms and recovers - 68%. Option 3 - Trump dies due to the combined effect of treatment and risk factors as suggested around 13th October - around a 30% chance. Should we open a book?

Posted by: Jan Price | Oct 6 2020 23:13 utc | 84

"I feel better than I did 20 years ago, I can't wait for the erection....uh ...uh... I mean election".

Posted by: jef | Oct 6 2020 23:16 utc | 85

@ karlof1 @ 70

Thank you for replying. I came back to the computer after reflecting that I had perhaps been a little snippy to you, which I did not intend at all. I do read Hudson all the time; he is wonderful and one of the last real economists writing. I used to watch the Keiser Report frequently, but got out of the habit when he started recommending bitcoin so heavily. I think bitcoin and the like are fairly obvious scams. I will watch the episode you recommended, however. Never seen Renegade Inc, so thanks for a new site to check out!

@ Circe @ 73

You ain't just whistling Dixie. These are true sociopaths. Trump et al are just something you'd scrape off your shoe before you track it into the house. I really cannot understand how anyone is suckered by this greedy, cruel fool. People on the thread were talking about karma the other day (I think I even mentioned it), but then I remember that Dick Cheney is still alive and I kind of lose any belief in divine retribution right quick.

Posted by: teri | Oct 6 2020 23:16 utc | 86

Posted by: falcemartello | Oct 6 2020 23:03 utc | 82

So these German lawyers are suing the WHO for crimes against humanity? Won't this even further undermine our confidence in our institutions?

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 6 2020 23:17 utc | 87

Trump got infected because of his close contact with an infected staff at the WH. But Covid19 is not SARs, the much more deadly virus. Thats my take of the event. No conspiracy theories involved whatsoever. Peace y'all!

Posted by: Martin | Oct 6 2020 23:17 utc | 88

They are getting tested daily and the infection is found early.

Trump needed the oxygen. His doctor had to be asked several times because he was evasive. He finally said it didn't get into the low 80's. That fact that he is receiving treatment according to established protocol is enough to assume that it broke 90.

He got infected because he does what he normally does when he is wrong. He doubles down on it and lies. He can't backtrack on his mistakes like most politicians can't. The whole system is full of people waiting to catch mistakes.

Posted by: Les | Oct 6 2020 23:25 utc | 89

Posted by: falcemartello | Oct 6 2020 23:03 utc | 82

You are overlooking the huge number of people who had only "mild" cases and have suffered permanent organ damage.

The virus is VERY similar to the SARS virus, hence its official designation SARS-Cov-2. Over half of those afflicted with SARS who "recovered" suffered for years from debilitating after-effets.

In French Switzerland, where I live, there are more and more physiotherapists training to deal with these "recovered" persons who have serious lung and muscle damage (with very little to show for their efforts, so far). There are also reports of people with damage to other organs (brain, kidneys, heart, liver...).

The virus has been shown to attack the hemoglobin cells, impairing their ability to transport oxygen. That would explain the damaged organ tissue: oxygen deprivation.

A close friend had a "mild" case in April/May, and he is still trying to get over it. Two weeks ago, he told me that he is now coughing up... what? He doesn't know but says it is coming up from his lungs and it looks like little bits of crushed glass.

Another point: we are still only at the beginning of this, regardless of what one wishes to believe about what has happened so far in Sweden.

There was also a study published already a couple of months ago about people who were "recovered" and suffered a "reinfection", with the researchers unable to determine if it was infection from a new strain or from a reactivated initial infection strain. What shocked them was that they found that the second virus strain was "colonizing" (their word) the antibodies triggered by the first infection.

Fauci, who was supervising the gain-of-function research that gave rise to this monster, kept repeating that it has only just begun until he was sidelined and effectively silenced. He ought to know what he's talking about.

Posted by: RJPJR | Oct 6 2020 23:25 utc | 90

reading nonsense from subjective dingbats is par for the course around here, but Johannes | Oct 6 2020 22:01 utc | 65 is up there with the worst.
Rather than wade through more subjective tossage at the link, I entered covid death sweden, went to the worldometer site for covid sweden , then did the same for the UK right here. One of the important things to remember about Sweden is that for a euro nation it has a tiny population just over 10 million Whereas the englanders etc have a population of around 68 million. Multiply the swede graph by 6.8 and their death curve rate is up there with the englanders etc, who are among the highest deaths in the world.

I wonder what happens if we compare that swede kark rate with a nation a bit closer to it in population Aotearoa population 4.8 million. Lets look at the Covid death rate there, double it and compare to Sweden eh?
Oh oops that's a bit hard to do as they haven't had any covid deaths since the middle of September. 2x0=0 deaths in Aotearoa in the last few days.
As a retiree, I know where I prefer to live & it aint Sweden. 'Herd immunity' - what nonsense.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 6 2020 23:30 utc | 91

For the record, the posts at #77 and #80 are not from the same user.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 6 2020 23:33 utc | 92

Posted by: Kadath | Oct 6 2020 22:08 utc | 68

Agreed. While we all hoped he'd croak (and he may yet), there always a high chance that he would survive simply because most people do. At his age, he had maybe an 8% chance of dying, based on the earliest figures.

If he does survive, however, the question remains what sort of physiological effects will he suffer from having had it. A lot of survivors show physiological changes such as reduced lung function which may be why he's breathing hard - and may continue to do so. It might also exacerbate his diabetes (I assume he has it) and it may even reduce his heart function. In short, he may win the election but he's probably going to die sooner than he might otherwise expect as a result.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 6 2020 23:38 utc | 93

Sorry, b, but your conjecture is nothing more than just that: conjecture.
I will refer instead to a much more reliable indicator of Trump's health: Trump's twitter feed.
Over the weekend - it went to almost zero.
Today and yesterday: back full steam.
www.trumptweetstoday.com

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 6 2020 23:47 utc | 94


Jan Price @84

Option 1 -Trump recovers and remains in the Presidential race - likelihood around 2%.
Option 2 - Trump experiences moderate to severe covid symptoms and recovers - 68%.
Option 3 - Trump dies due to the combined effect of treatment and risk factors as suggested around 13th October - around a 30% chance. Should we open a book?
______________________________________

If you are paying 50:1 odds on Option 1 I will put $1000 on that one.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 6 2020 23:51 utc | 95

92

Just another Hack

Posted by: Jezabeel | Oct 6 2020 23:52 utc | 96

I had already posted this on the previous Trump thread. 333-

I will repost it because I feel it is relevant information.

Kellyanne Conway's daughter, Claudia ,15, has set Twitter afire with some comments on TikTok to the effect that the POTUS is a lot worse than he wants to admit.

Claudia herself has the virus, just as her mother and complains that she has trouble breathing, just like the POTUS.

Check @TrumpCovidTakes on twitter.

The fact is that while he is administered antiviral drugs to minimise the invasion, he has received corticosteroids also which diminish the intensity of the immune system reaction but lowers the ability of the body to fight the invasion.

The steroids make him feel good but are a double edge sword.

I believe that climbing the stairs to the WH, which he did slowly, was more than his respiratory system could handle. So he had to remove the mask to improve his breathing.

Many have seen this gesture as an improper and reckless example to his supporters, specially in view of his earlier, irresponsible, tweet urging people not to take COVID19 seriously.

It seems that the POTUS is willing to decimate his staff at the white House.

Posted by: CarlD |

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 6 2020 23:55 utc | 97

@Jan Price #84
The reality of COVID-19: if a person doesn't have a serious pre-existing health condition, their likelihood of serious illness is low in absolute terms.
For every 100 people verified infected, 50 or so are basically asymptomatic.
Of the remaining 40-50, 1 in 5 will get a medically concerning case of COVID-19 (not serious but on the path to it).
Of these 1 in 5, about 1 in 4 (we're now talking 1 in 40 overall) will get pneumonia.
Of those who get pneumonia, about 1 in 5 develop into a serious COVID-19 case (i.e. ventilator and what not).

Of the people who get to the serious case level - a but under half die but the ratio has been falling.
So the chance of Trump dying is well under 1 in 300 and possibly lower.
The chance of Trump getting a really serious case is maybe 1 in 150. Absolute odds of any one person testing positive and becoming a serious medical COVID-19 case is 1 in 200. It is somewhat higher if you are over 65, call it 1 in 100 but lower if you are over 65 but don't actually have bad health as in cancer, diabetes and what not. Let's say 1 in 150.
Thinking Trump has a 30% chance to get seriously ill or die: clearly you don't understand the numbers.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 6 2020 23:59 utc | 98

HAAAAA! Stephen Miller just tested positive for Covid-19!

Now, I'm waiting for Pence to test positive. Then I'll declare game, set, match; Trump rule over.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 7 2020 0:00 utc | 99

Nothing to admire about Trump.

1)He's going back to the White House because he thinks the longer he stays hospitalized, the weaker he looks. It's a vanity thing and also a PR image thing. He thinks it'll hurt his re-election prospects if he looks weak.

2)Also he hates wearing a mask, and in WR, he has to wear a mask while in the White House he is the boss and nobody can tell him what to do.

3)The typical course of the disease has many patients suffering another downturn after the initial infection period is "overcome". Trump is a long way from even partial recovery. His looks like a severe case. Without the medical care he has as POTUS, he would probably add to the 210,000 deaths stats.

4)The experimental monoclonal antibody shot Trump took was made from the blood of recovered Chinese patients in Singapore. Trump has just been shot up with CHYNA BLOOD. This will make him 10% CHYNESE.

5)I read somewhere that when Trump's dad had dementia in his 70s, the family built him a fake office and gave him fake documents to sign so he could still think he was going to work. Trump seems to be going along this path.

6)This shitshow has more drama than Survivor or Apprentice anytime.

Posted by: GreatSocialist | Oct 7 2020 0:05 utc | 100

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