Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 25, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-85

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Michael Tracey @mtracey- 18:34 UTC · Oct 24, 2020

Tried to get into Biden’s “drive-in” event with Bon Jovi this afternoon in Dallas, PA and was told attendance is limited to “party officials and donors.” Registration is not open to the general public. Kinda weird how these campaign rallies have effectively become private affairs

Mark Sedwill said the UK had sought to exploit Moscow’s “vulnerabilities”, including through the deployment of its recently declared offensive cyber-capability.

He said the aim of such actions had been to “impose a price greater than one they might have expected” in response to aggressive Russian behaviour.

Other issues:

Class wars:

Proxy wars:

That proxy wars are essentially anti-democratic goes some way to explaining the adoption of a proxy doctrine, traditionally the preserve of the intelligence services, by the conventional US military. Proxy warfare is officially condemned in Washington and London as a device of undemocratic enemies, but it is precisely for its anti-democratic possibilities that the West embraces it.


Should Trump be blamed for Covid-19 deaths. Sure, he did not help. But the states are responsible and they differ very much in their approaches. Vermont and Maine are doing okay. The two Dakotas and many others seem to have different priorities. What would a different administration have done? To what effect?

Virus pictures:


Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on October 25, 2020 at 13:31 UTC | Permalink

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Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2020 1:01 utc | 194 -- "Rentiers.... Vampires.... are one and the same.... living off the labor of others.... a parasitical relationship as one is fed by the other.... "

Yes, same same.... sucking blood off live victims.... eating other people's lunches.... eating without working.... smoking crack during a foot 'massage'.... getting paid in martha's vineyard mansions for reading teleprompters.... same same....

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 27 2020 7:10 utc | 201

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 26 2020 23:17 utc | 181 -- "The Outlaw US Empire is directed by a bunch of fraudulent bankers and Rentiers.... regardless the victor, the next POTUS will again be one of their stooges, who will then fail to enforce the law and thus again commit treason against the people of the United States."

Just as an uneducated, poorly-read, unthinking, incurious person cannot believe that a huuuuuuuge falsehood can be a lie, so he cannot believe that a huuuuuuge truth can be true.

What you laid out there is a huge truth, particularly in the way you led us to see "treason" in your exceptional nation.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 27 2020 7:22 utc | 202

vk @196: "Looks like local governments in China enjoy so much independence from the Central Government that they are creating a "duplicated effort" effect in the semiconductor sector, wasting many resources as a result."

This is only a problem if the primary concern is the absolute fastest and cheapest path to reproducing American semiconductor capabilities. The chief "resources" being "wasted", however, are scientists and engineers and technicians, which are not really being wasted because they are doing the work they trained for. Even if there are dozens of teams doing exactly the same thing (unlikely), then at least they are all sharpening their skills on real problems while putting dinner on their families tables. It is not as if China will be suffering from a shortage in scientists and engineers anytime soon, and their bigger problem is keeping enough of them productively employed that students continue to pursue STEM educations.

But this isn't just high tech busy-work. It's not just public works projects to keep engineers off the streets. It is much more likely that these seemingly redundant development efforts will diverge while continuing to attack the same problem. This socialist style competition guarantees innovation that will leapfrog its way past the current state-of-the-art. More importantly, big development efforts always have spin-off innovations that are mostly orthogonal to the primary purpose of the development effort. Think velcro and freeze dried food preservation coming from America's Apollo Program. Even if the teams stay tightly focused on precisely the same goal, it is impossible that their serendipitous tangential innovations will all be the same.

This effort in China to quickly achieve global leadership in semiconductors will result in the emergence of disruptive technologies that we cannot even begin to imagine right now. Despite how dark and hopeless as things are in the West these days, what is taking place in China is incredibly exciting.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 27 2020 11:19 utc | 203

The edict just came down that bars and restaurants with indoor seating are closed here in suburban Cook County effective tomorrow. As there is snow on the ground this morning outdoor seating won’t work. The reason is an “uptick” in “covid-like” hospital admissions. Covid-like is a completely new term to me and the decree - we are living under rule by decree - does not define it. There has certainly been no determination that the “uptick” has any connection to bars and restaurants. Contact tracing is not happening here. Since it is purely guesswork a better guess would be the uptick connects to schools re-opening. Schools are explicitly to remain open. Have already spoken to proprietors of two local businesses I patronize, they are closing and closing for good. Both cite the impossibility of making decisions when decrees fall from the sky.

The most interesting part of the decree was that for establishments that remain open with outdoor seating, of which there will be none, dancing is prohibited. Dancing. Have not seen any public displays of dancing for a long time. Even when Barrett Deems was still alive and Thursday nights at the Mill were devoted to swing dancing there were not a lot of couples on the dance floor. The dancers traveled long distances for that show. Spontaneous dancing at restaurants is just not a threat to civilization. Thinking about it now the last time I witnessed that dance would have been at a Mexican restaurant in San Bruno in 1999. A grandfather and bandleader dancing with his granddaughter. The State of Illinois will now protect us from such moral corruption.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 27 2020 13:10 utc | 204

"China firmly opposes US newly approved arms sales to Taiwan island: FM "

"US threatens to destroy Iranian missiles if shipped to Venezuela as Washington slams Tehran with new oil sanctions"

Posted by: arby | Oct 27 2020 14:02 utc | 205

The official policy of the US government is now explicitly "herd immunity". I'm sure the morons here will appreciate that.

White House Finally Announces Coronavirus ‘Plan’: Let ’Er Rip
Giving up on prevention is a death sentence for hundreds of thousands more Americans

Lest there were any doubts about the White House’s pandemic response plans, President Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, made the approach clear over the weekend. The apparent “plan” is to give up on prevention efforts and allow the virus to spread as much as possible — rip off the Band-Aid and see what happens.

“We’re not going to control the pandemic,” Meadows said Sunday. “We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics, and other mitigations.”

Because therapeutics have yet to offer any “cure” for Covid-19, and given that widespread deployment of any successful vaccine is months away, the “let ’er rip” strategy is a capitulation to the coronavirus and a death sentence for 500,000 to perhaps 2 million Americans, according to the scientists who study the spread of the virus...

Asked why he said the United States will not control the virus, Meadows said, “Because it is a contagious virus, just like the flu.”

Indeed, the coronavirus is highly contagious. But its effects are nothing like the flu. No flu strain has killed more than 116,000 Americans in 101 years. This coronavirus has already taken more than 225,000 lives. And contrary to popular depiction, the virus has been unusually deadly for younger and middle-aged adults, too. While in raw numbers more older people have died from Covid-19, the percentage increase in deaths is highest among people ages 25 to 44.

“Covid-19 is not like Influenza,” tweeted Krutika Kuppalli, MD, a clinical professor of infectious diseases at Stanford University School of Medicine. “It is at least 5x deadlier for those admitted to the hospital and causes long term side effects leading to morbidity which is yet unclear.”

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 27 2020 14:19 utc | 206

This a.m. (Oct 27) on NPR's broadcasting of the BBC World Service, there was a brief news report on matters Belarusian. The London based program person spoke with a female "reporter" in Minsk. The short discussion concerned the Strikes called for by Tikhanovskaya.

The protests not having produced the goods (removal of Lukashenko and the installation of the female NATO-western puppet Tikhanovskaya) so onto strikes especially of the state owned industries plus small businesses...This reporter said - without prodding - that the strikers will be paid - from the "Solidarity Fund." Hmmm. Interesting and fully in keeping with skeptical thinking about this whole situation. Then, to top it off and underscore one's need for the deepest skepticism about the veracity of and indigenous roots of the effort at removing Lukashenko, the London end closed with the "credentials" of the Minsk based "reporter": not only a "reporter" but a worker in the Atlantic Council....

Of course, this being a color revolution target country, any and all violent means used by the police etc to stop the protests/strikes is blared abroad on NPR/BBC. And continuing calls for Lukashenko to remove himself from the presidency - accompanied by "look at how he and his "regime" treat the population."

Now one might ask WHERE was similar outrage across the MSM and EU/UK/USA (accompanied by western calls for the removal of Macron) throughout 2019 and the extreme brutality the French Riot Police meted out on the Gilets Jaunes protestors (who weren't asking for Macron to go, just some taxes and similar social spending efforts). Those protests were by and large peaceful (there were black dressed, masked infiltrators who did damage and who gave the Gilets jaunes some bad press). The Police were anything but - numerous protestors lost eyes, hands and had serious damage to their jaws because of the stun grenades used.

Of course the aim is to scoop up the last stretch of Russia's western borderlands into NATO hands. Meanwhile some similar efforts continue along Russia's more southerly borders. Why can't we just let other countries alone? Mind our own business and take care of our own societies, peoples? (Not a serious question 'cos I know that it is all about US global dominance and $$$$$ for the western corporate-capitalist-imperialist ruling elites.)

Posted by: Anne | Oct 27 2020 14:28 utc | 207

Some details on how to analyze the figures. These are 2 parts of a 3-part series, the 3rd one has not been posted yet.

Covid-19 Hospitalizations Are on the Rise — Here’s What You Should Know (Part 1)

COVID-19 Hospitalizations Are on the Rise — What You Should Know (Part 2)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 27 2020 14:29 utc | 208

Tweet from Bernie Sanders:

Bernie Sanders @SenSanders
COVID-19 deaths:
United States: 225,000
Population: 328.2 million

COVID-19 deaths:
Canada: 9,963
Japan: 1,716
Australia: 905
South Korea: 457
Vietnam: 35
New Zealand: 25
Taiwan: 7
Total deaths: 13,108
Total population: 364.6 million

Donald Trump: "It is what it is." Pathetic.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 27 2020 14:34 utc | 209

The escalating news of arms sales to Taiwan and talk of war is focusing more discussion about possible attack plans (which China has been working on for years). And that focuses more attention on the hundred-mile wide Taiwan Strait and its weather, with high winds most of the year. This is important to the small watercraft that China would depend upon for a beach invasion on the Strait. There are other possible locations, but the east side of Taiwan is mountainous.
The Strait weather forecast is here. Hover over the black arrows to get the forecast wind speed, 10 m/s = 22 mph.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 27 2020 14:47 utc | 210

the “let ’er rip” strategy is a capitulation to the coronavirus and a death sentence for 500,000 to perhaps 2 million Americans

The death toll has been steady around 700 deaths/day in the US for a few months. To get to 500K would take more than a year at the current rate and several more years to get to 2 million

What this announcement does is make the election even more of a referendum on how to proceed against covid.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 27 2020 14:51 utc | 211

Just followed the links from the resident misanthrope and transhumanist. The given link is to, which I would characterize as MSM/government. That article says Remdesivir is now proven. Which they buttress with a hyperlink to NEJM. Go over to the NEJM article and it says no such thing.

Then there is the usual dexamethasone script. The two patients I know personally who were intubated say they were both going to die until dexamethasone brought them back. Which is why it is standard therapy for ARDS. It was before covid 19 existed and is again now. In between the NIH guidelines told doctors steroids were verboten for covid. Exactly the same thing as telling an asthmatic no inhalers allowed. Doctors hated that guideline but complied. New and improved therapy for covid is simply standard therapy.

And then the endless moronic story that there are no therapeutics for covid outside hospitalization. Just go to the MATH+ site that the resident transhumanist likes to promote. Follow the links provided there for vitamin D. MATH+ provides the information but will not make a recommendation or draw the conclusion. Of course the primary source of vitamin D is sunshine on skin and we were just all told to spend the summer in hiding. It has been known since forever that D reduces odds of coming down with colds and flu. That is why your grandmother dispensed cod liver oil. One of the very few dietary sources when the sun goes down. Medical establishment and fooking wishes to know less than grandmother did. Saying that nothing can be done and we should just live in fear — that is what you will get from misanthropes and the willfully ignorant.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 27 2020 15:03 utc | 212

Rushed confirmation of Barrett mirrors deepening US political divisions

I'm not contesting Barrett's legitimacy to the SCOTUS throne, but you have to admit the process of her selection and the circus around it was very banana republic-esque.

Posted by: vk | Oct 27 2020 15:40 utc | 213

@ vk #216
. . . it was very banana republic-esque
Actually it was very serious for those Americans of female persuasion, because it involves the government potentially telling them what they can and can't do with their own bodies. (It's assured that they won't get involved in male vasectomies.)

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 27 2020 15:58 utc | 214

"Qiao Collective
Newsweek's claim that 600 Chinese community groups in the U.S. are "arms of the CCP" is based entirely on the Australian Strategic Policy Institute—which is literally funded by the U.S. State Dept & Raytheon.

This is full-blown McCarthyist manufacturing consent for war on China.
Quote Tweet
· Oct 26
As part of a four-month investigation, Newsweek has identified 600 community groups in the U.S. with links to the Chinese Communist Party—part of a large campaign by Beijing to sow unrest ahead of the U.S. election.

Posted by: arby | Oct 27 2020 16:34 utc | 215

Don Bacon @213: "...the east side of Taiwan is mountainous."

Beautiful area for biking and picnics. Amphibious landings? Not so much.

But where else will America be bringing in the resupplies after Taiwan's airbase and airport runways are all cratered and the harbors mined? Certainly not on the western shores of Taiwan!

The mainland doesn't have to do a harsh ground invasion of the island. A simple blockade (along with plentiful offers of humanitarian aid) will work wonders.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 27 2020 16:45 utc | 216

@ oldhippie | Oct 27 2020 15:03 utc | 215

In accord with the overall theme of your comment, I would share this posting from today on the failure/termination of part of a Phase III trial of a new Lilly monoclonal anti-covid antibody + remdesivir combination trial for lack of efficacy. (It so happens that remdesivir + monoclonal antibody [albeit Regeneron's, not Lilly's) was touted as being a big part of Trump's covid treatment success).

Unfortunately, we’re getting a dose these days of “That’s why you run clinical trials”. Word came Monday evening (Peter Loftus in the WSJ, and a Lilly statement) that the ACTIV-3 trial being run by the NIH has shown lack of efficacy for the combination of the Eli Lilly/AbCellera anti-coronavirus antibody (bamlanivimab, LY-CoV555) when combined with remdesivir in hospitalized patients. This is the trial that had been paused earlier this month for safety concerns, but now no more patients will be enrolled at all. A thorough review of the data showed that there were, in fact, no differences in safety between the arms of the trial with and without the antibody – but there was also no difference in efficacy.


You’ll notice a theme here, to wquhich we can add the recent remdesivir data from the SOLIDARITY trial. Earlier data had suggested that the drug has some positive effects (although not dramatic ones) but the larger data set didn’t bear that out. What these things do is set bounds for what you can expect for a given therapy: the level of response in these cases means that even if there is some benefit, it’s going to be limited (or, at the most optimistic, limited in these particular populations of patients). A Wonder Drug would have given a stronger signal, and none of these are wonder drugs. The question is whether there’s any signal left after more waves of well-controlled data come in – and if so, what patients can get what benefits there are.

So two questions come to my mind:

1. How did the Great Gilead Gods of Science ever finagle an FDA approval for remdesivir (for which Gilead can charge >$3k/single Tx course alone, in the US) if no one seems to be able to independently replicate proof of remdesivir's efficacy/benefit vs. covid?

2. What cured Trump's bout with covid so fast if it was not Remdesivir plus antibody?

Posted by: gm | Oct 27 2020 16:57 utc | 217

Boris Johnson is no socialist. But his big spending will make Labour's job harder

The analysis is going from the wrong viewpoint.

It's not that Boris Johnson outflanked Labour, but that social-democracy (center-leftism) is a failed ideology/project by definition. Keynes was fundamentally wrong. Social-democracy is fundamentally wrong. Labour Party is betting on the wrong horses. That's the root of the problem.

If your grand-strategy can be defeated by a couple of signed blank checks, then your grand-strategy is failed by design.


Diverging opinions:

Latest US arms sale to Taiwan ‘will help island reach goal of being able to destroy half of any Chinese invasion force’

Can US arms sales to Taiwan be curbed? Yes and undoubtedly: Global Times editorial

Let's ignore our political affiliations for a moment and think in terms of pure logic:

1) do you think China is more powerful today or in the year of 1949?

2) what do you think is the most advantageous for the USA: conquering the Mainland and destroying the CCP or defending the island of Taiwan?

In my humble opinion (not an expert on either subject), the correct answer to 1 is "today" and the correct answer to 2 is "conquering the Mainland and destroying the CCP".

So, can you see the problem with the line of argumentation of the USA side? 70 years ago you could have invaded and conquered the whole China. Not only they didn't do that, but instead they went back home crying and started a witch hunt (McCarthyism) precisely on the question "who lost China"?

Now they are claiming they can obliterate an entire PLAN amphibious invasion with just USD 2.4 billion. In a world of modern missiles, they're telling the Taiwanese people to hold off an amphibious invasion!

If I were a Taiwanese, I would ask for my cash back, as the Harpoon will never be used: there won't be an amphibious invasion by the PLAN; there will be an amphibious parade from the Strait to Taipei.


@ Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 27 2020 15:58 utc | 217

So, what you mean is that the fate of abortion rights lied with an 85-year-old woman with terminal cancer?

Not a very democratic system, if you ask me.

Posted by: vk | Oct 27 2020 17:06 utc | 218

William Gruff @206--

Hey Bill, check this out:

"While China has taken serious steps in recent years to address environmental and climate issues, including cutting greenhouse gas emissions and joining a global climate pact, new pledges by the top leadership to reach carbon neutrality by 2060 and the need to shift China's economic growth model toward high quality and sustainability add fresh urgency. The upcoming five-year plan is crucial in spearheading such efforts." [My Emphasis]

The solar farm heading that article is awesome! I once proposed erecting similar solar farms underneath the high voltage transmission lines that transit the desert to Vegas and LA. But like high speed rail, that's yet another failure of vision. As you read the article, you'll see there's a whole lot of opportunity for STEM people as this citation implies:

"However, 'balancing environmental protection with economic growth is a question for 10 years ago. What we are talking about now is that carbon neutrality would boost economic growth and promote structural changes and upgrades, which is completely in line with China's supply-side reforms,' Zou said." [My Emphasis]

So, China's instituting what is essentially Green Policy that is designed to "boost economic growth" that the Anti-Science TrumpCo folk haven't a clue about will leave the drowning Outlaw US Empire even further submerged than would've been predicted just last week. And I'm sure you recall Putin saying Russia and China are deeply involved in sharing their technological developments--Symbiotic Synergy of the sort completely absent from all Neoliberal nations. An example:

"Already, many local governments in China and companies in the country are heeding calls from top officials to cut carbon dioxide emissions. China's largest offshore oil and gas producer CNOOC, for example, announced last week that it would aim to raise the share of natural gas from 21 percent to 50 percent of its total output by 2035 to contribute to a national carbon neutral target by 2060. [My Emphasis]

And that will be Russian gas. And the next blub ought to casue some to blink:

"German carmaker Volkswagen China said on Monday that it would bring all new electrified models to the 3rd China International Import Expo in November to highlight its theme of 'Shaping a Carbon Neutral Future.'"

Imagine just how difficult it would be to organize a car show within the Outlaw US Empire with that theme! If VW can produce quality electric cars for the China market, when will we see them here in North America?

And if that article wasn't enough, here's "China plans further clampdown on carbon in new 5-year plan"; so, it's not just semi-conductors and electronic high-tech that'll be fueling China's ambitious future goals. It will be showing the world how to attain a carbon neutral economy that doesn't sacrifice the populace but uplifts it instead. And you know what? That'll be something the Parasites helping to drown the Outlaw US Empire simply can't halt except via war. Thus the continuing escalation of Taiwan as flashpoint that must be resolved sooner than later from China's perspective, IMO.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2020 17:14 utc | 219

gm @ 220

Your first query is very easy to answer. Gilead Sciences is Donald Rumsfeld. He has experience in this. Previously he came out of retirement to get approval for Aspartame on behalf of G.D. Searle. Aspartame was and is so dangerous FDA merely looked at the formula and would not allow human testing. Rumsfeld fixed that. Now in his late 80s he remains the foulest of demons.

To the second query I can only guess. No privileged information here. First priority for DJT was likely performing advertising services for pharma. Very doubtful he took what he was publicly said to take. The monoclonal antibody is very new and there have been major adverse events reported. It would have been nuts to take that sort of risk with a sitting President. If something went wrong the quarterly sales target would be harder to meet and let’s keep our priorities straight.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 27 2020 17:38 utc | 220

oldhippie | Oct 27 2020 13:10 utc | 207

"Have already spoken to proprietors of two local businesses I patronize, they are closing and closing for good. Both cite the impossibility of making decisions when decrees fall from the sky."

That will only continue until all independent businesses are wiped out and the entire 99% economically liquidated, for as long as people remain stupid, spineless, and insane, continuing to obey these self-evidently lawless, unconstitutional decrees.

Almost everyone here who previously deplored how the US internationally wants to overthrow law in favor of "rules" by US decree, suddenly have learned to love administrative tyranny and hate the rule of law. Just one of the long list of 180 degree flips on the part of all these born-again imperialist frauds.

"The most interesting part of the decree was that for establishments that remain open with outdoor seating, of which there will be none, dancing is prohibited. Dancing. Have not seen any public displays of dancing for a long time."

I'll happily dance any time with any woman who wants, a total stranger, as long as she's not wearing a mask.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 27 2020 18:22 utc | 221

My @222 Cont'd--

China has a new formulation, "Dual-circulation strategy becomes new road map of growth":

"China's more domestic-focused development pattern is not a stopgap measure to deal with the current pandemic, but also a road map for China's new economy development trajectory for the next 20 to 30 years.

"The dual-circulation plan is expected to help China become a stable force in global economy that emerges in a new, inclusive, balanced, win-win globalization post-pandemic period. Therefore, the dual-circulation strategy will be a key focus of China's 14th Five-Year Plan, especially for the next year....

"In terms of establishing a new, open, balanced, inclusive, and win-win form of globalization, China will contribute both wisdom and solutions." [My Emphasis]

Here China's former vice minister of commerce and executive deputy director of the China Center for International Economic Exchanges throws down the gauntlet--no more IMF/World Bank Zero-sum centered globalization that drew the ire of protesters globally. Things will now be done differently as Neoliberalism sinks beneath the waves along with its prime practitioner the Outlaw US Empire, which is still greatly handicapped by the treason of its leaders in not even trying to control the pandemic and allowing hundreds of thousands of people to die. Why would any national leader consider following such an immoral nation on any policy front? (If for that reason alone, the Parasites must replace Trump.) That's a question the NATO-enslaved nations must ask themselves as most declined to follow Trump's treason when it came to protecting their citizens during the pandemic.

I can't think of a more dreadful situation facing the Parasites running the Outlaw US Empire. Their credibility is worthless as are their policies. Plus, they've watched their global leadership be replaced by an avowedly Socialist nation and one that's also Asian. And being Parasites, they have no idea how to nurture the Real Economy back to health such that they might have a chance at regaining their lost stature. Their POTUS options will only worsen the current situation; Trump moreso than Biden, IMO.

But for the rest of the world, a grand opportunity beckons--a socially and environmentally sound nation with a formula capable of solving several longstanding intractable problems that's already formed a Bloc with nations comprising over 1/3 of global population. Let's hope the drowning Outlaw US Empire goes quietly and lets the world get on with living.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2020 18:22 utc | 222

Just a little thought on the Borat thing.

IMO he could have picked anyone of the "stans" to humiliate.
For the most part we in the west had almost no idea about any of them but the picture he presented fit in an exagerated way of what was already in our heads. The same as the picture of Russian women being large and hairy and living in a overcast black and white country.
Borat did not invent that stuff, it had already been planted in our heads.

Posted by: arby | Oct 27 2020 18:27 utc | 223

@Richard Steven Hack #170
South Korea had restrictions - but bars were open. They played baseball months before MLB decided to start playing.
Nor did they lock down even a single district, much less an entire province or the entire nation.
The country then instituted a lockdown at the end of August - it seems that testing doesn't work, contact tracing doesn't work so they decided to try what has failed in Europe, the US and China.
Funny that - South Korea touted as a model of response early on.
And now?

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 19:09 utc | 224

@vk #185
If feudalism was dead in 1860 - why is it that the English feudal lords still own 30% of all the land in England?
And that a Queen is still the head of state there? As well as many other nations - including demonstrated power like the deposing of an Australian elected head of state?

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 19:13 utc | 225

@arby #226
If Russian women are large and hairy - why are most of the sexy hookers in movies and television, Russian?
I disagree with your statement as it is wrong both in fact and in common understanding: most Americans think Russian women are all hot.
Mass media distorts all kinds of things - fat and hairy Russian women isn't the meme that MSM pushes.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 19:16 utc | 226

Latest Trafalgar poll data:
Pennsylvania has swung from several months of Biden +3.x% to Trump +0.8%.
Trafalgar polls for Pennsylvania:
Oct 25
Beginning of October

Trafalgar polls for Florida:
Note how Biden was -0.4% in July and is now -2.3%

Trafalgar polls for Michigan:
Note how Trafalgar *really* differs from other polls here: the mainstream polls are saying Biden +7% to +10% vs. Trafalgar ranging from Trump +0.7% to +1.4%

Trump's campaigning is clearly having an effect, just as Biden's lack of campaigning...isn't.

Next Tuesday is going to be interesting...

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 19:29 utc | 227

@ Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 19:13 utc | 225

They became capitalists. Not every feudal dominant class was killed. France was an exception. Most feudal lords transmuted into capitalists, which in England was marked by the Glorious Revolution. The same happened in Germany, where the feudal lords became capitalists in the "revolution from above" (Bismarckian reforms; Juncker reforms).

It is not widely known, but the French Revolution was despised by the brightest liberal minds of the time. Their ideal political model was either the American South (future Confederates) or England (Constitutional Monarchy). In their minds, the French Revolution was an initially legitimate liberal revolution which was soon "corrupted" by the radicalists (Jacobins). By 1790, no liberal considered the French Revolution legitimate, and all of them supported the future reforms in France of the beginning of the 19th Century (the Napoleons, II and III).

Posted by: vk | Oct 27 2020 19:45 utc | 228

I guess you're not old enough.
During the cold war Russian women were not portrayed as hot.
All photos of Russia were in black and white and it was always very gray and overcast.
Big Russian women were shown working on ships.
As a person who didn't pay a lot of attention at that time those were the images that I recall.

Nobody would have found Borat funny if they thought that whatever Stan he mimicked had hot women and was somewhat advanced.

Posted by: arby | Oct 27 2020 20:04 utc | 229

@228 It's possible too that most French people were unhappy with Robespierre and his Reign of Terror. They were glad when Napoleon came along and ended the chaos.

Posted by: dh | Oct 27 2020 20:10 utc | 230

karlof1 @219

Thanks for the link to that article!

I was aware that China has been pursuing a number of major tech development efforts. The thing is that any one of those efforts on its own, such as the semiconductor push, will be spawning disruptive innovations. All of them together? Yeah, that's something to get really excited over!

I know I have harped about this like a broken record, but we really need to look at the STEM grad students that countries produce to get an idea about where humanity is heading. Russia, with half of the population of the US, has almost as many STEM grad students as America. While it is true that Russia also hosts a lot of international students, more than half of America's STEM grads are international, and increasing numbers of those international students are leaving America and taking their educations home with them.

If we consider that half of America's STEM grads are not American, a country that upgrades more of their domestic talent with STEM educations is Iran! Yeah, that "raghead" country that the losers in America's corporate mass media who barely achieved a Special Education version of a bachelors like to denigrate! USA domestic STEM grads ≈ 250k/yr; Iran STEM grads ≈ 330k/yr.

But all of that pales when compared with China's nearly 5 million annual STEM grads. And that number is just going to increase (in 2016 China was opening a new university each week).

Between Iran, Russia, and China we are seeing a tsunami of technically capable talent being developed. It is impossible to say in advance where that will take humanity, and the possibilities are beyond imagining. What we can say is that it will be exciting! Heck, it already is.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 27 2020 20:53 utc | 231

Russ @ 221

Even six months ago would have said your vision was needlessly dark. Stupidity reigns.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 27 2020 20:53 utc | 232

@ Posted by: dh | Oct 27 2020 20:10 utc | 230

Doesn't change the fact that the Jacobins - all of them - were dyed-in-the-wool liberals.

Posted by: vk | Oct 27 2020 21:41 utc | 233

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 19:09 utc | 224

Christ, what a fucking moron! All he can do is repeat "lockdown, lockdown, lockdown". Never once has he mentioned testing, tracing and isolating. He is absolutely *determined* to ignore all that and focus strictly on his mindless repeating of "lockdown, lockdown, lockdown."

Pathetic moron. In fact, he's nothing but a troll on this subject. I'm not wasting any more time on this idiot.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 27 2020 22:02 utc | 235

Posted by: jinn | Oct 27 2020 14:51 utc | 211 to get to 500K would take more than a year at the current rate and several more years to get to 2 million

Who says it's going to stay at that rate? This announcement guarantees that it's going to go up. That's the point. The only question is how far. Remember that flu season is coming with the usual 30,000 or more which will strain hospitals burdened by the coronavirus. So more patients of both flu and coronavirus will die than necessary.

The figure I've seen recently was 400,000 by February. That's quite doable. If enough hospitals become overwhelmed, at least some states could be looking at New York in April levels of death, which might push it closer to 500,000. The two million figure is undoubtedly the outside of whatever model was being quoted.

In any event, what level of unnecessary deaths is acceptable? Apparently to Trump supporters, almost any level is just fine, as long as the economy is re-opened so the rich can soak them even more.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 27 2020 22:17 utc | 236

@233 If you say so. I'm not sure the Jacobins were liberal in the modern sense. I think of them as anti-Royalist, Republican and in favor of strong central government. Quite dogmatic in fact. I see modern liberals as being more progressive i.e. for individual least that's what they say until they get power..

Posted by: dh | Oct 27 2020 22:28 utc | 237

@vk #228
The royalty in the UK are now capitalists? They are absolutely not. Those royals get paid by the government. The same can be said for Swedish, Spanish, Dutch and many other European royals.
Germany: perhaps you can point some links showing how the Hohenzollerns own IG Farben, Bayer etc.
France: Ditto how the French aristocracy managed to pull their ownership through the French revolution.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 22:36 utc | 238

@arby #229
The Cold War ended around 1991. That is almost 30 years ago, or almost a full generation.
Even so, your recollection isn't too complete.
Let's examine Russian women in such movies as "The Red Shoes" - not Communist, but certainly Russian (and even actual Russian dancers).
Or the Broccoli era James Bond movies - there were plenty of sexy "Russian" women there such as "From Russia with Love".
Then there's Doctor Zhivago, etc etc.
Are you sure the portrayal of Russian women was as fat and hairy in popular media?

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 22:43 utc | 239

@Richard Steven Hack #235
The more you curse, the more you moan, the more I smile.
Again, you have no credibility.
You demonstrate no clarity of thought.
You don't even bring interesting information forward.
All you're good for is attacking anyone you don't agree with.
Every single time you write a post which is utterly empty of anything but bile, you increase your own lack of credibility.

But unlike you, I believe in freedom of speech.
I respect that other people have other opinions, even if I don't agree with them.
I believe in understanding other people's points of view and allowing for the possibility that they and their views can have validity.

Sadly, you clearly don't.
Thank goodness we live in a society where such as you, still don't have a monopoly on power.

By all means, continue your hate-filled spewing. It only serves to further degrade everything you represent.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 22:47 utc | 240

Oh, now politics is about power!

Why Leftists Should Vote for Biden in Droves - Politics is about power, and the left will have more under a Biden presidency.

Liberals are indeed the masters of moving the goalposts. When Biden is in danger of impeachment, the narrative will go back to "it's all bout fairness and values" stance.


Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 22:36 utc | 238

The Saxe-Coburg and Gotha are not the whole nobility of the UK. And they do have capitalist enterprise - it's just that we don't know about them as easily.

Germany is the most glaring example of a feudal aristocracy turning capitalist class. Hobsbawm mentions that, by WWI, the prince was the second most rich capitalist in Germany (behind only Thyssen) - hence we use the term "Juncker Way" (as opposed to the American Way) as one of the two forms capitalism can be built from a feudal base.


@ Posted by: dh | Oct 27 2020 22:28 utc | 237

There is no Radicalism. Radicalism was a fantasy term a faction of the liberals - both in France proper and in England - used to designate the other liberals who simply extended the liberal logic to its ultimate consequences, that is: equality should also expand to the serfs, as "all men are born equal".

Liberalism isn't against central government. They are only against central government when it hurts their interests. They openly defended "despotism" (absolutist government in the colonies) when it favored their class interests. Yes, individual freedom is a pillar of liberal thought: but the key here is "individual" - only property owners were individuals; slaves, native-Americans, Arabs, Chinese, Indians, Irish etc. etc. were not humans; they were classified as "wild beasts", therefore the land they occupied was considered res nullius. The liberals liked to paint themselves as the equivalent of the Senate of the old Roman Republic: a slave-owning oligarchy.

Posted by: vk | Oct 27 2020 22:54 utc | 241

@vk #241
References to World War 1 era German companies isn't supportive of your case - since the Hohenzollerns were still the rulers of Germany until that war ended.
Nor are your English references very relevant since you did not address the fact that the aristocracy in the UK - royals as well as the entire feudal layers underneath - still own 30% of all the land in the UK.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 23:21 utc | 242

William Gruff @231--

Thanks for your reply! Yes, I'm motivated by China's exploits to the point where I wrote a long article at my VK Space about where it's going and how its being propelled by its citizenry, not Financial Parasites. The working partnership between Russia and China will soon add the entire ASEAN bloc which will doom the EU as a backwater unless it rapidly changes its policies by ousting its Neoliberals and NATO-centric politicos and makes a grand effort at rapprochement with both Russia and China--and I ain't a whistlin' Dixie about that prediction.

As for the Parasites and Neoliberalcons running the drowning Outlaw US Empire, they just got gobsmacked by two related developments--First, the Empire lost its standing as the overall largest economy to an avowedly Socialist nation and will further slide downward in comparison since those at the helm have no vision whatsoever of how to save their ship of state; and secondly, it lost its claim to its exceptionalism because that nation's Asian, populated by people deemed inferior for centuries.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2020 23:34 utc | 243

A look back at 2016:
FiveThirtyEight on 2016

Specifically, Trump beat his FiveThirtyEight adjusted polling average by a net of 2.7 percentage points in the average state, weighted by the state’s likelihood of being the tipping-point state. This average reflects some states (such as Wisconsin) where Trump beat his polls by more than 2.7 points, along with others (such as Nevada) where Clinton beat her polls. But it isn’t as though Trump lucked out and just happened to win in exactly the right combination of states. Clinton led by only 2.3 percentage points in the weighted average of tipping-point states in FiveThirtyEight’s final forecast, providing for many potential winning combinations for Trump. For instance, he could have won the Electoral College by winning Nevada and New Hampshire (and the 2nd Congressional District of Maine) even if Clinton had held onto Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

Here is the aggregate present poll data for the swing state:
AZ: Biden +2%
FL: Trump +1%
GA: Trump +1%
IA: Biden +1%
MI: Biden +9%
NC: Tie
OH: Tie
PA: Biden +4%
WI: Biden +5%

Now compare with Trafalgar:
AZ: Trump +4% (11 EV)
FL: Trump +2.3% (29 EV)
GA: No Data (16 EV)
IA: No Data (11 EV)
MI: Trump +0.6% (16 EV)
NC: Trump +2.8% (15 EV)
OH: Trump +3.7% (18 EV)
PA: Trump +0.8% (20 EV)
WI: Biden +1.3% (10 EV)

This is interesting because Trafalgar specifically tries to address the polling errors which were obvious from 2016, which FiveThirtyEight specifically talks to above.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 23:36 utc | 244

@ Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 23:21 utc | 242

Capitalists can't be rulers of their own countries? Let's warn Trump and Macron then.

What determines a capitalist from a feudal lord is the nature of their property, not the degree of fusion between their members and the State. If you're a monarch with USD 20 billion in a hedge fund in the Cayman Islands, you're a capitalist, no matter how many nobility titles you have.

Germany already was fully capitalist by the WWI.

Posted by: vk | Oct 28 2020 0:02 utc | 245

Pompeo's spreading lies again, but then isn't that what he does best? Yes, that would be correct, but too many people actually listen to him instead of pressing mute. In fact, he's lied so much that commenting on them is not just becoming tedious; but here at MoA, it's almost making it certain barflies will just ignore your comment since it's just the SOSDD. But as I reported @243, Pompeo had to do something in retaliation, so lets read what he lied about this time:

"Our leaders, and our citizens, see with increasing clarity that the Chinese Communist Party is no friend to democracy, the rule of law, transparency, nor to freedom of navigation, the foundation of a free and open, prosperous Indo-Pacific."

Now lets look at this People's Daily article that completely refutes Pompeo's lies aside from the maritime where we already know he's full of bull, "14th Five-Year Plan showcases democratic policy-making. Yes, democratic in a manner that completely destroys every US claim to be a democracy--Ordinary Chinese are invited to participate in policy planning, actually expected is a better term. The process is called Democratic Centralism, which I've explained here in several comments. Let Pompeo choke on the following sentence:

"According to experts, by soliciting public opinions and passing them to experts and officials to tailor professional and responsible plans, ordinary people can participate in the nation's governance, while professionals can help realize the people's needs in more efficient and scientific ways."

And then we have this nice example:

"From August 16 to 29, the Leaders' Message Board, an online forum affiliated with People's Daily Online that solicits public opinions, received over 1.1 million pieces of public advice on the 14th Five-Year Plan. Among the participants, 28.8 percent are from government sectors and state-owned enterprises, 15.4 percent are professionals, 11 percent are students, while freelancers and privately or individually-owned businesses account for 9 percent of the total."

And this:

"Local authorities across China have also provided different ways to help the people voice their needs, encouraging locals to provide suggestions for the 14th Five-Year Plan. For instance, the Tianjin government started to solicit public opinions in 2018, compiling a list of 31 major pieces of advice covering a variety of sectors. In 2019, 30 research institutes from China and overseas were selected to refine this advice, based on which over a thousand scholars have come up with a draft to enrich the content of the nation's five-year plan."

The level of involvement by Chinese in the civic aspect of their lives is so far ahead of what happens in Neoliberal nations it's embarrassing, almost as bad as having a dumbfuck like Pompeo in any position of power--Head Janitor at West Point ought to be his job. IMO, if US citizens had any idea about China's accomplishments, its visions, and the level of the ordinary citizen's civic involvement--that s/he's actually listened to--they'd jump ship and head West following that admonition from the 19th Century.

Meanwhile, Trump makes Pompeo an even bigger liar:

"'I Don't Believe That's By Our Laws,' Trump Says of Counting All the Votes in an Election."

You just can't make that stuff up. Seems the only thing capable of saving the USA's Ship-of-State is if it hits a shoal that keeps it from completely sinking beneath the waves so it might be refloated at a later time by a morally much improved group of people.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 28 2020 0:24 utc | 246

That haughty (definitely not hottie) stiff asshat, Jared Kushner, treats African Americans like he treats Palestinians in that they should recognize what's good for them according to Trump's definition of what that is and want success and prosperity. In other words he's trying to say that their blind to success and they shouldn't dismiss a CON when they see one.

On another note. Biden gave a pretty good speech in Warm Springs, Georgia today with interesting historical anecdotes. It was dignified and sobering for the times.

While on the other side you have Trump super-spreading the virus, hosting party-like rallies while hundreds of people up to and over a thousand per day are dying. This is how Trump behaves in a war, after all, promiscuity was his private Vietnam while Americans were dying in Vietnam.

To make matters worse, he's playing music from that era at his rallies that's making the brilliant musicians who created and who never imagined it would be used in such an atmosphere of reckless and depraved revelry to promote a bastard like Trump...CRINGE.

Trump embodies everything the greatest musicians of the sixties and seventies despised. They should sue Trump collectively.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 28 2020 0:59 utc | 247

Oh look...all the lefty losers of MOA.
Only 4 more years to go ladies!

Posted by: JoeG | Oct 28 2020 1:22 utc | 248

@246 karlof1 - "the only thing capable of saving the USA's Ship-of-State is if it hits a shoal that keeps it from completely sinking beneath the waves so it might be refloated at a later time by a morally much improved group"

That's a very nice picture, and since I personally believe that the future is created in part from the pictures imagined in the present and the past, I have to wonder what that could look like.

This is essentially running aground, unable to come ashore, because unable to admit to the grounding - with the propeller spinning in the air as the engines overheat, nothing happening, and waiting for the next tide to lift the fortunes of the ship.

I can see it, perfectly, as the stalling is described as a great adventure towards herd immunity a greater thing, and the Wurlitzer beats out the narrative, the Congress keeps the turbines running - because, personal income from graft, naturally - and the people fret incoherently and die impotently.

The rich, of course, hire pleasure boats for trips around the bay, and the ruling culture sees nothing amiss, or even amidships.

We really don't have to look very far to see how this plays out do we? We are already living in the dynamics that can enfranchise this scene.


We have feared for some years that the dying of empire might result in a death throe that would disturb the peace of the world, but the very Wurlitzer that is perhaps the greatest Vichy quisling in all of this sad affair may yet prove to be the saving grace that allows utter disaster to befall the US without anyone knowing, or caring or being able to affect it.

I remember 2014, and our fears of those death throes. And the Saker today has a reprise on the Iranian missile attack on the US base that showed the world for the first time in stark clarity just how impotent and "run aground" the US is. He dates it as the end of empire. Well, maybe so, and we certainly called it at the time a historic first for the free world, a milestone - or should that be a shoal?

And the point is that if the US is simply going to fall into reverie and dementia - and maybe it is time to have a broken mind as president to replace the broken morality of the current one - rather than to kick up a fuss at its own dying, then what a wonderful thing this will be.

It's a lovely picture, karlof1, and I wanted to help paint its flesh, because what are dreams for if not to come true?

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 28 2020 1:31 utc | 249

@249 more...

And I have wanted to mention also that Russia and China are obviously calibrating actions precisely to the fall of the west - and that at some point, strong arms will be needed to place the patient gently on the ground, or in its bed, and this cannot be done purely from gentle coaxing.

Iran showed that it was possible to touch the patient physically without a manic response.

Hence the ramping up of diplomatic and editorial language, the Chinese exhortation to its soldiers to readiness for war, and the great moves we now discern to creating alternative systems and agreements and platforms for action in the global theaters - much of which you've noted here, karlof1, and continue to do.

There will come one very delicate and fraught moment when the flip will become the flop, and the free world will actually seize the US by its arms and lay it forcibly to rest. This action plans and war-games and strives to be so gentle and so elegant that the patient will think that he willingly takes himself to his rest.

For all the impatience over the years from all the observers, one hopes that the breathtaking subtlety of this one supreme action will satisfy.

We agreed long ago that the US must take a very real and very public slap one day, and it came when Iran administered it in January. Now there must follow this one action, and it must happen, and it is yet to come.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 28 2020 1:54 utc | 250

I see information cleansing house is giving us a heads up on the Harris/Biden presidential administration appointments.

The kleptocrats list here.

Obummer style treachery yet again. YAWN!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 28 2020 3:18 utc | 251

karlof1 @this thread,
Thank you very much for continuously and tirelessly providing valuable info and updates. Really appreciate it.

Grieved@249, 250,
It seems to me there is no sign at all that amerikkka would change any time soon. Unfortunately, there are not many options to deal with amerikkka since it only knows one thing and one thing only. Therefore, it would be dealt with the only thing that it knows. Hopefully, it then would change for the goodness.

The current affairs within amerikkka don't look good either. When the time was good, everyone got a piece of something. Now, it's totally different. One illustration is how China conducts testing for the pandemic. When there were confirmed cases in QingTao a few weeks ago, China tested 9 million people in the city in 5 days. Now, there are confirmed cases in Xinjiang, China did testing for 4+ million people that are not in its major developed areas in 3 days. This would not happen in any western country or region since no western country has neither $$$ nor the abilities to do it. Barflies here at MoA definitely notice this. However, it seems to me that few people in the west realize the meaning behind this. Just from this angle, it shows (1) where the money is and (2) how much a government cares about the people.

I don't understand why some things are always presumed to be good or bad without any question being asked in the west. Those things are not self-evident like the sun comes up and goes down every day.

How can one expect what good could come out with a group of morons when they apply democracy?!

As always, I appreciate your thoughts and thanks for sharing.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 28 2020 3:19 utc | 252

Below is a link to a Reuters posting that shows that the Boeing/FAA corruption is being replicated in other government regulatory areas

Tyson Foods workers to replace some federal inspectors at U.S. beef plant

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 28 2020 3:59 utc | 253

@251uncle tungsten

I have no illusions where Biden is concerned, I just want Trump out on his ass.

So when you start with wanting nothing more than that every little good thing that happens from there is a bonus.

After Trump is out the door, I never want to hear another word from Trump, about Trump, or Russia or Putin.

To think I used to like Russia and Putin. Now thanks to Trump, my regard for Russia and Putin has gone from 8 to 2.

You know, I couldn't stand Bush jr. And still can't, but I appreciate him keeping a low profile. I won't dream Trump will do the same, but I sure can hope.

Anyway he's in his 70s so it'll be downhill from here. I'm sure he'll resurface as everyone's crazy uncle showing up at the most inopportune times.

As long as I don't have to see him or hear his bullshet every day--oh what a blessing, Lord Jeesus!

And I'll be glad when that aloof, artificial tart who sleeps in the next room to his is out on her skinny fanny too!

I really don't care--do U? Indeed. Go back to your shallow existence and your matching golden toilets in Florida, madam, and good riddance!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 28 2020 4:41 utc | 254

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 27 2020 22:47 utc | 240 The more you curse, the more you moan, the more I smile.

Which is exactly why you're a fucking troll.

"All you're good for is attacking anyone you don't agree with."

Like the statements that preceded this one didn't attack me.

"But unlike you, I believe in freedom of speech."

No, you believe in being a troll.

Don't feed the trolls. Good-bye. You are the weakest link.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 28 2020 4:57 utc | 255

Covid-19 Bullshit Exposed in 5 Simple Graphics
COMMENTARY: Words don’t seem to be eradicating these fallacies. Maybe images will help.

Across the United States, Covid-19 hospitalizations are up 45% in the past month. As I’ve written before: People don’t go to the hospital for the fun of it. Meanwhile, Covid deaths are rising, too, and that data makes for an ugly chart that has a frightening amount of upside potential given that a) deaths follow case counts by a few weeks and b) the national plan is to wait for a vaccine, which experts say won’t be available on a widespread basis until at least early spring.

They can't eradicate these fallacies because trolls like clue have a vested interested in promoting them - and there are more than enough other morons to believe them.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 28 2020 5:04 utc | 256

My kind of guys...

Trump campaign website hacked
A message posted on the site said the "world has had enough of the fake news" spread by the president and threatened to release dirt on the Trump family.

Now if only these guys weren't scammers and actually *had* dirt on Trump and his family. It wouldn't be that hard to dig up if you're a hacker.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 28 2020 5:10 utc | 257

Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 28 2020 3:19 utc | 252 -- ".... it seems to me that few people in the west realize the meaning behind this. Just from this angle, it shows (1) where the money is and (2) how much a government cares about the people."

Good observations, LRJ. And I add:

(3) how efficiently a proper public health system works;

(4) how the people give consent to be governed (served?).

(5) how the CCP is still on a bio-war footing since Wuhan

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 28 2020 8:08 utc | 258

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 28 2020 1:54 utc | 250 -- "....Russia and China are obviously calibrating actions precisely to the fall of the west - and that at some point, strong arms will be needed to place the patient gently on the ground, or in its bed...."

Or back into its baby cot, that horrendously loud-screaming banshee of a child, which once started out so good, but now has grown into a troubled teenager.

"Iran showed that it was possible to touch the patient physically without a manic response."

And Iran continues to show that you can carve out space for freedom of action, even of navigation (in the US backyard even), if you hold a sharp damascus blade to Empire's throat in the Straits of Hormuz.

"There will come one very delicate and fraught moment when the flip will become the flop, and the free world will actually seize the US by its arms and lay it forcibly to rest...."

Ah.... I see, just like the Suez Canal moment when the US firmly laid the Brit Empire to rest shortly after WW2.

Thanks, Grieved, for an elegant word-picture of how USS Freedom runs aground. Delicious prose!

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 28 2020 8:24 utc | 259

@Richard Steven Hack | Oct 28 2020 5:10 utc | 257

My kind of guys...

Trump campaign website hacked

Yes, we noticed that calling people having other views than your own "morons" and that hackers are "your kind of guys". At least you have stopped calling for physical violence, so maybe that is progress?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 28 2020 9:37 utc | 260

I haven't commented here fore a bit but seeing this propaganda headline I had to post it. "Grave-counting satellite images seek to track Yemen's COVID death toll"
Looks like the the anglo part of the anglosphere is still a bit pissed off about Kashoggi getting sawed up. Reuters

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 28 2020 10:13 utc | 261

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 28 2020 9:37 utc | 260 At least you have stopped calling for physical violence, so maybe that is progress?

Sorry to disappoint, but I'll never stop calling for physical violence. It's just that hacking is a more efficient and less risky way of taking down enemies.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 28 2020 11:04 utc | 262

@244 c1ue

Just 6 days left before I can rub those bat-shit crazy polls in your face.


Posted by: Circe | Oct 28 2020 12:11 utc | 263

@vk #245
Interesting - so according to your apparent definition, the UK has been capitalist since forever. The UK of Queen Elizabeth of Spanish Armada era was thoroughly "capitalist" in that the state did not own or operate the majority of the productive assets.
Equally, you ignore what feudalism is: which is ownership of land (and other assets) by nobility in a cascading series of obligations.
Both the standard and Michael Hudson views on feudalism are reflected in the above view - with the note that late 1800s economic reformers ranging from Marx to John Stuart Mill were specifically addressing feudal economic ownership.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 12:21 utc | 264

@Richard Steven Hack #255
Sad, but you don't seem to understand the difference between attacking a person vs. attacking what they do.
I have never called you a troll, a fascist, etc etc.
Nor have I cursed you.
What I have said, repeatedly, is that your ad hominem behavior and lack of fact/evidence has destroyed the credibility of everything you say.
What is particularly sad (and interesting) is that I actually believe that the US has gone too far into the bankster/capitalist side. For example, I 100% agree that a national health care system is necessary - whether it is Medicare for All or a real national health care system.
Unfortunately, the rabid behavior of yourself and your compatriots such as Circe only repel me.
I will never support any movement which not only tolerates, but encourages the behavior of such as the two of you, regardless of the few areas which I would otherwise find agreement on.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 12:26 utc | 265


And don't give me just the fixed 18-24 group! I wanna see Women, I wanna see +65, and I wanna see College Educated groups.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 28 2020 12:30 utc | 266

@Circe #268
I actually hope, for your sake, that the election results next week are closer to the MSM views than what Trafalgar is showing. Suicide rates are sky high and I honestly fear for your safety should your world view suffer yet another major case of cognitive dissonance.

Although to be fair, another 2016 might actually give Bernie or his Progressive successor a chance to retake the Democrat party - something I would actually welcome. It is sad that the Democrats are so corrupt that billionaire Trump is able to become the "man of the people"...

If you weren't so rabid, you might have observed that Trafalgar's delta vs. MSM today can be construed as higher than 2016 - which could indicate over-reach in their methodology.

You could also have observed that the voters that just wanted change in 2016 are unlikely to vote Trump again - since he is now the incumbent.

But you are so far gone in TDS and Identitarianism that it seems reason and evidence no longer matter.

In any case, I don't actually know what will happen next week. To me, it is too close to call but Trump's Energizer Bunny campaigning is clearly making a difference even as Biden continues to narcoleptically campaign.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 12:35 utc | 267

@ clue, multiple posts

Thank you. Also notice that when the transhumanist posts covid it is mostly or all pure MSM. MSM is presumed to lie and to lie against our interests at all times. Except when addressing covid. Then they are suddenly truth tellers and the unfaithful are idiots and morons.

Replying to someone else on thread. No he has never stopped with the ad homs or the death wishes. Maybe a while since he actually threatened to harm another commenter.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Oct 28 2020 12:46 utc | 268

@LuRenJia #252
No, you are wrong. The problem in the US isn't lack of money - it is that COVID testing as well as all other forms of health care are for profit.
For profit means there are tens to hundreds of millions of dollars spent on election campaign financing such that elected officials know full well not to interfere with the US health care gravy train.
For example: In 2016, Hilary Clinton received $32.6M in campaign funding from the Health sector. source
This is more than the next 10 candidates, combined (Trump received $4.87M and was 5th highest - behind 3 other Republican candidates).
Nor is the $32.6M indicative of the actual total: "dark money" or PACs certainly contributed a lot more.
In 2012, the Republicans actually received more ($23.96M vs. Democrat $19.2M).
In 2008, it was Democrats with $31.89M vs. Republicans $15.26
I guess the health care industry felt it already got what it wanted with Obamacare (2010).

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 12:47 utc | 269

More fun facts: that noted covidiot publication, the New York Times, published this on August 29: NY Times article

One solution would be to adjust the cycle threshold used now to decide that a patient is infected. Most tests set the limit at 40, a few at 37. This means that you are positive for the coronavirus if the test process required up to 40 cycles, or 37, to detect the virus.

Tests with thresholds so high may detect not just live virus but also genetic fragments, leftovers from infection that pose no particular risk — akin to finding a hair in a room long after a person has left, Dr. Mina said.
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Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive, agreed Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside. “I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive,” she said.

A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35, she added. Dr. Mina said he would set the figure at 30, or even less. Those changes would mean the amount of genetic material in a patient’s sample would have to be 100-fold to 1,000-fold that of the current standard for the test to return a positive result — at least, one worth acting on.
Image“It’s just kind of mind-blowing to me that people are not recording the C.T. values from all these tests, that they’re just returning a positive or a negative,” one virologist said.
“It’s just kind of mind-blowing to me that people are not recording the C.T. values from all these tests, that they’re just returning a positive or a negative,” one virologist said.


Officials at the Wadsworth Center, New York’s state lab, have access to C.T. values from tests they have processed, and analyzed their numbers at The Times’s request. In July, the lab identified 872 positive tests, based on a threshold of 40 cycles.

With a cutoff of 35, about 43 percent of those tests would no longer qualify as positive. About 63 percent would no longer be judged positive if the cycles were limited to 30.

In Massachusetts, from 85 to 90 percent of people who tested positive in July with a cycle threshold of 40 would have been deemed negative if the threshold were 30 cycles, Dr. Mina said. “I would say that none of those people should be contact-traced, not one,” he said.

Another commenter had noted that cycle amplification over 30 yields spurious results - this New York Times article supports that.
The article also, as can be seen above, notes that 43% to 90% of people tested are effectively false positive. This is far, far worse than the theoretical rate of 0.5% which I had posted about earlier.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 13:01 utc | 270

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 28 2020 10:13 utc | 261 -- "Grave-counting satellite images seek to track Yemen's COVID death toll"

What wonderful software to be able to distinguish graves due to covid and graves due to western-aided bombing by saudi butcher-bullies.

What wonderful feelings to block medicines, but to so gleefully count your enemy's dead.

What soul-less ghouls to mock a people when the are down for the count.

What wonderful western values.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 28 2020 13:05 utc | 271

@267 c1ue-less

Whut??? Is that capitulation yet again, this time on the reliability of Trafalgar's crosstabs?

I see Trump's vs Biden's campaign strategies like this:


Plan to defeat Covid vs weird science
Healthcare plan vs it's 2 weeks
Environmental Plan vs You mean global warming exists?
Infrastructure Plan vs No Infrastructure Plan cause my imaginary dog ate my homework
Green jobs and infrastructure jobs plan vs Jobs are magically coming back
Immigration Plan vs Uh...Mexico will pay for the Wall that's 1000 beautiful miles.

Uh... wiki notes: By October 19 2020, 371 miles (597 km) had been built, the bulk of it being replacement of existing outdated or dilapidated barriers.
The cost for this part of the Wall in progress ballooned from just over 700 million to 3 BILLION and Steve Bannon was arrested for defrauding investors with his We Build the Wall scheme that built 5 miles on private property.

Trump's overall plan: Twitter, TV and a bucket of KFC. Oh, and more tax breaks for Wall Street and Ziofascist control via the judiciary, and more acts of war against Iran. COVID, COVID, COVID...just Fake News!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 28 2020 14:04 utc | 272

c1ue @270

in July, the lab identified 872 positive tests, based on a threshold of 40 cycles.

With a cutoff of 35, about 43 percent of those tests would no longer qualify as positive. About 63 percent would no longer be judged positive if the cycles were limited to 30.

The obvious conclusion is that of the 63 percent that no longer test positive there would be some unknown quantity of false negatives. When very small amounts of virus genetic material is detected that may make it likely that what is being detected is fragments that are no longer viable or contaminants that did not come from the person being tested, but it is also still possible that a positive is not false.

In other words the chosen number of cycles is a trade off between false negatives and false positives. If you consider false negatives far worse than false positives you set the number of cycles high enough to eliminate the false negatives.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 28 2020 14:20 utc | 273

@ Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 13:01 utc | 270

They are not false positives; the patient really has or had the disease a few time ago. False positive is when there's absolutely no traces of the virus and the test points the existence of the virus. And even the NYT article you mention doesn't affirm for sure that all 40 cycles only detect fragments of the virus: they may or may have detected just fragments.

And detecting just fragments of the virus is not bad, as the disease is only 8 months old. At worst, the person had the disease only eight months ago.

Besides, immunity from people who recovered from the COVID-19 seems to last only for a very short time, and we don't know how much longer the person is contagious.

Posted by: vk | Oct 28 2020 14:22 utc | 274

" The US consulate in Hong Kong and Macao reportedly rejected four Hong Kong secessionists seeking political asylum on Tuesday, which was a "wise move" because offering asylum to secessionists could risk the closure of the consulate, experts noted."

All of a sudden the US doesn't know these seccessionists.

Posted by: arby | Oct 28 2020 14:34 utc | 275

@ Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2020 12:21 utc | 264

Not only me, but most historians. England is considered to be the cradle of liberalism by the liberals themselves. The liberals considered the Glorious Revolution (1688) - and not the French Revolution (1789) - as their date of birth. They unequivocally classified England as the "freest nation" until the American South was born (and then, only even some).

The genocides the British Empire committed in India and elsewhere are commemorated by the liberals as the salvation of European civilization, and perfectly justifiable. They also didn't seem to bother about the existence of the British monarchy, with one or two exceptions. The key here is to understand Liberalism divides the societal sphere in two: political rights and natural rights. The political sphere is the one that is reserved to the specific obligations of the State - which can or cannot violate Freedom; the natural sphere is the absolute rule of the capitalist (slaveowner), where the State cannot interfere in any way. Hence their concept of Natural Law (which still exists today), which is the concept that capitalist rule is natural, fruit of the Providence (later, Natural Selection). In the natural sphere, everything was valid - including genocide and dictatorship (the term "dictator" was revived in this era); as long as the British Monarch stayed confined in his/her "political sphere", all was fine.

Feudalism is much more than simply ownership of land based on a specific set of obligations. First of all, land is not mobile: it is inheritable until the end of times. Second, it is a non-monetary economy: the serfs must pay in kind and in labor time directly on the land of his/her lord - there's no inflation in a feudal economy (a fact that mr. Hudson cleverly forgets to mention). Third, labor force is not mobile: the serf is tied to a specific piece of land until the end of times - not even the nobility having the power to move him/her out. Banking and commerce existed in feudal Europe purely by accident and came from the corners of the subcontinent or Asia: pure feudalism never existed in reality.

Posted by: vk | Oct 28 2020 14:39 utc | 276

"Bolivia's Interior Minister @ArturoMurilloS
has asked the MAS to not 'persecute' leading figures of the coup regime. When Murillo took power a year ago he promised to 'hunt down' leftists."

Posted by: arby | Oct 28 2020 16:24 utc | 277

246 karlof1, 249,50 Grieved,

How fitting it would be if the shoal in question should turn out to be the US Supreme Court. I can remember still the moment coming home from work,(in the days that I drove back and forth from home to work,) listening to the arguments on the car radio as back in the day the Supreme Court was deciding whether or not all votes in Florida could and should be counted --- the terrible sinking feeling what the decision was no, send all the good citizens home, this cannot be done.

And I remember later reading Justice Kennedy's dissenting speech, where he fortells the calamity to come this decision would be for the nation. And all the harrowing of the system undertaken then by citizens seeking (and failing) to correct the inadequacies laid bare at that time and never thereafter corrcted. It's as if someone at the masthead cried out "Shoals ahead! Take evasive action!" and was ignored.

Many of us have been climbing our assorted beacons ever since. And now it is clear that all systems are broken and we are drifting...

In the mail yesterday I received a letter from the Democratic council in my state, pointing out that while voting is anonymous, not voting isn't. And there in black and white was my name for the last voting period listed boldly "not voting". I remember now why that was. A worker for the Democratic Party knocked on my door and told me that no Greens were on my ballot so I would have to reregister or I could not vote.(this was days before election day, and apparently the last day I could do so). I was so offended by this, from the party I had left, for the first time since becoming a citizen I stayed away completely. My last vote was for Jill Stein, and I had watched the count intently. Her low number did not change the entire night. That is a very suspicious fact, given her popularity online, and her work to spread her message, a popular one.

Onto the shoals we go. In New Zealand that would be Manukau Harbour. Not the Waitemata -- Manukau, the west coast harbour of my native city, close to where I was born. Not the east coast one where I grew up and where dolphins lead ships safely to port. Waitemata, "sparkling waters"; Manukau, "place where the migrating birds fly over".

I know both places well.

Posted by: juliania | Oct 28 2020 16:38 utc | 278

juliania @278--

Took my step son fishing today on a very nice ocean, and we both caught our limits of rock fish--7 each. I was very pleased to catch a very fat Trump fish, about 40% larger than this specimen, at about the same time a fancy--and rather expensive--boat went cruising past flying a very large Trump banner. Alex and I enjoyed a hearty laugh at the coincidence, and it was the only one like it out of the 14.

Yes, the 2000 Judicial Coup still echoes loudly. Maybe Bolton will work for Biden this time. Relations with the rest of the world will continue to sour regardless the victor, and the Parasites will continue to suck the life blood from their host. Might take a page from Trump's playbook and declare our plot of land an independent nation, but that's fraught with as many problems as secession. At least there're many good things happening elsewhere we can cheer!

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 28 2020 23:00 utc | 279

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