Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 25, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-85

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Michael Tracey @mtracey- 18:34 UTC · Oct 24, 2020

Tried to get into Biden’s “drive-in” event with Bon Jovi this afternoon in Dallas, PA and was told attendance is limited to “party officials and donors.” Registration is not open to the general public. Kinda weird how these campaign rallies have effectively become private affairs

Mark Sedwill said the UK had sought to exploit Moscow’s “vulnerabilities”, including through the deployment of its recently declared offensive cyber-capability.

He said the aim of such actions had been to “impose a price greater than one they might have expected” in response to aggressive Russian behaviour.

---
Other issues:

Class wars:

Proxy wars:

That proxy wars are essentially anti-democratic goes some way to explaining the adoption of a proxy doctrine, traditionally the preserve of the intelligence services, by the conventional US military. Proxy warfare is officially condemned in Washington and London as a device of undemocratic enemies, but it is precisely for its anti-democratic possibilities that the West embraces it.

Covid-19:

Should Trump be blamed for Covid-19 deaths. Sure, he did not help. But the states are responsible and they differ very much in their approaches. Vermont and Maine are doing okay. The two Dakotas and many others seem to have different priorities. What would a different administration have done? To what effect?

Virus pictures:

Lebanon:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on October 25, 2020 at 13:31 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

Clock is ticking on the US election.
Here it comes.

Posted by: librul | Oct 25 2020 13:43 utc | 1

Slavery is Jeffersonian. Denying that is dishonest. Wanting that is deeply reactionary. I have no idea why Pepe Escobar is deemed to be any kind of leftist, unless the definition of "left," is "stupid sentimentality about 'the People'."

Taibbi is misled yet again by his deranged theories about the Deep State. I suppose the real attraction of this nonsense is how it allows one to pose as intelligent and independent minded while actively opposing a valid understanding of the social world. The problem with that is it means accepting the scientific premises of Marxism. [Note: There is also an ethical commitment that makes one a socialist/communist. Every central bank determined to preserve the industrial reserve army of labor is working on "Marxist" principles, but isn't socialist/communist!] As a result, Taibbi has confused himself with a rare instance of the mass media correctly assessing there is no story, not yet anyhow. It was things like Benghazi and the email servers that were fake news. The idea that it's only a problem when the imaginary Deep State decides what's news makes excuses for the usual prevailing state.

And yes, there is no story. Skipping over the questionable provenance of the laptop, the story is the email correspondence between Hunter and Joe, not between an addict and someone he's trying to get money from. What Hunter said to string along Burisma et al. is irrelevant. It is idiotic to assume Hunter Biden is a truthful person. Like all addicts I presume?

Again, there is no story until the Hunter/Joe Biden emails are disseminated. My guess is that they are withheld because they are conclusively exculpatory. And there is still a possibility that somebody hacked Hunter Biden, then dumped a self-serving selection into this laptop. There's not even the possibility of a real story in the sense of potential indictments, because no honest, competent judge would allow the laptop, with it's shady provenance, into court. Pumping up a news story because some conservative hack would shame the courts yet again? That's asking for a miscarriage of justice, not reporting. To top it all off, of course, the real problem is how much influence peddling is *legal.*

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 25 2020 13:59 utc | 2

@2 In other words, you will vote for a crook.

Posted by: librul | Oct 25 2020 14:12 utc | 3

Not being American I decided to do some research as to whom is responsible for the health response to COVID-19 in the US. The MSM and Democrats put the blame for the high death toll squarely on

The Tenth Amendment states that
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

Meaning that:
As University of Texas law professor Bobby Chesney has recently reminded us, the states are independent entities within our system of federalism, not mere subordinate jurisdictions of the national government. In areas reserved to the states, he says, the federal government “cannot coerce the states into taking actions to suit federal policy preference.”
https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/03/25/trump-or-governors-whos-the-boss/amp/

What powers does the president have:
As we have seen, the president can restrict international travel, harden the borders, and invoke national emergency powers such as the Defense Production Act. Without federal leadership, the states will have hard time coordinating their policies on the many aspects of the current pandemic that cross state lines.

So the way understand it while the federal government can block overseas travel and co-ordinate policy between states and increase production of essential medical equipment it is up to the states to determine the response to COVID-19. If the states want to implement a lockdown they can and if they want to make mask wearing mandatory they can. This applies too to social distancing and other measures to prevent COVID-19. These measures are entirely the prerogatives of the state and not the federal government.

Now at least 40% of the deaths have been elderly living in nursing/cares homes. This interesting article takes a look at why that is:

Nursing homes were already struggling with infection control before the pandemic hit. A Government Accountability Office report published in May found that more than 80 percent of nursing homes were cited for infection-prevention deficiencies from 2013 to 2017. About half of those homes had “persistent problems and were cited across multiple years.” The report describes, among other incidents, a New York nursing home where a respiratory infection had sickened 38 residents. The home did not isolate or maintain a list of those who were sick, and continued to let residents eat meals together.
https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/613855/

The nursing homes it seems to me are the responsibility of the state they are in. Meaning that any COVID-19 prevention measures need to be taken by the state in which the homes are based and not the federal government.

It was the governor of New York who forced nursing homes to accept COVID-19 positive patients when they did not have the means to deal with this crisis as seen in the article above. It is not surprising that COVID-19 spread like wildfire in these already poorly maintained nursing homes. At least 6000 people died in nursing homes in New York and that figure only includes those who died in the actual nursing homes. The governor of New York was not the only one who did this. Michigan did the same and I think a few other states.

Take into account that when Trump did try and ban overseas travel from China he was pilloried for it. Biden called him a xenophobic. Pelosi in late February was telling people to join her for festivities in China Tiwn. De Blasio did the same. It is clear the Democratic leadership did not take COVID-19 seriously at the beginning of the pandemic and neither did many governors.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 25 2020 14:27 utc | 4

Argh!

... blame squarely on Trump... NOT the Tenth Amendment.....

Posted by: Down South | Oct 25 2020 14:28 utc | 5

The Pennsylvania state Supreme Court ruled Friday that ballots in the state cannot be rejected because of signature comparisons, backing up guidance issued by the state’s chief elections officer heading into Pennsylvania’s first presidential election with no-excuse mail voting.
https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/10/23/pennsylvania-court-ballot-signatures-431794

This is extraordinary. The potential for fraud is limitless.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 25 2020 14:37 utc | 6

https://youtu.be/5649FAF3_ws

Sky News Australia special report on the Hunter Biden laptop.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 25 2020 14:40 utc | 7

When will Joe bring out his new crack grandbaby from Hunter's Arkansas stripper?
That will surely earn a few broken home votes!

Meanwhile 80 folks showing up to listen to Barack Hussein bray in anger.
6000 massed for the POTUS speech down the road.

ONLY FOUR MORE YEARS TO GO SNOWFLAKES!
Wail.
Gnash.
:)

Posted by: JoeG | Oct 25 2020 14:52 utc | 9

@ Down South #4
Not being American I decided to do some research . .
And you did your research perfectly, putting many Americans to shame IMO.
It is a fact that the USA is a republic of states, and a "state" back in those days was a country. So the citizens who are blaming Trump for everything that goes wrong disregard the simple facts that you present in your comment.
The president is an executive, executing the laws that Congress passes in those areas listed in Article I, Section 8 -- "The Congress shall have Power To . ." and public health is not on the list. The president should not be considered as an autocrat making decisions on everythng. This is supposed to be a democracy.
Public health, like public education for example, is a function of the states, and they failed us to a great extent. . . .good job!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25 2020 14:54 utc | 10

https://youtu.be/wKnZxgVRI5g

This is a video produced by Bernie Sanders against Joe Biden in the Democratic primaries

Posted by: Down South | Oct 25 2020 14:55 utc | 11

There's not even the possibility of a real story in the sense of potential indictments, because no honest, competent judge would allow the laptop, with it's shady provenance, into court.
_____________________________________________
Well if there was a crime I suspect the laptop would be admitted as evidence. The FBI was given the laptop and they could easily determine if it is authentic.

But there is no crime for which there is any evidence as far as can see. Are they going to charge Hunter with smoking crack with no more evidence than a picture of what looks like a crack pipe?

The main reason you can tell this is all Kayfabe is that it so utterly ridiculous and contrived. The right wing news media is harping on the story that the FBI should have done something with the laptop. They actually believe the FBI's is covering something up because they did nothing with the laptop even though no actual crime has been identified. Its like the steele dossier - even if its all true where is the crime?

What is obvious is that there was a conflict of interest for Joe Biden when Hunter took the job with Burisma, but such ethical breaches are so commonplace in Washington that it is hilarious that this one is being treated as if it is something special or as if its is the only one. Its also an ethical breach for trump's children to be given lucrative positions of power for no other reason than they are related to trump. Its also an ethical breach for trump to pressure a foreign govt to assist in smearing a political rival. And that one is the most laughable because we are supposed to also believe that the CIA was so shocked by that particular ethical breach that they went and tattled about it to the whole world.

So yes there is no real story its all fake. And you are correct that Taibbi is also, like all the other journalist, trying to create something out of nothing.


Posted by: jinn | Oct 25 2020 14:56 utc | 12

Misterious death from Necrosant Pacreatitis probably originated by undetected by tests Covid-19 infection complications, and which could explain Navalny´s "syndrome" which then was used as alibi to stop NSII and sever ties between Germany and Russia and between the whole EU and Russia, for that matter, due collectively agreed mandatory sanctions...

Notice that, in the middle of a pandemic, Navalny did not restrain himself from assisting to every party where alcohol was served he was able to...

https://www.patreon.com/posts/42824424

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 25 2020 14:59 utc | 13

@3 librul

I too was very confused by Escobar's article. His strange endorsement of the Orange One was a bit over the top, but then that is his style. Regarding the election, the Stenographers, Russiagate, and dirt on the Deep State, Aaron Matte did a very revealing interview with the consummate insider/outsider, RayMcGovern on Grayzone. I really enjoy listening to Mr McGovern speak, as he is such a sraight-up guy. I especially relished how he refers to former Secretary of State, Robert Gates. It reveals how psychophants and sociopaths climb to the top, and how old hands perceive them. See below:

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/10/23/blaming-moscow-for-hunter-bidens-laptop-is-russiagate-disinformation/

Posted by: Michael | Oct 25 2020 15:14 utc | 14

@14 Michael

Oops! That should be "Secretary of Defense".

Posted by: Michael | Oct 25 2020 15:42 utc | 15

librul@2 manages to be incredibly stupid in at least two different ways in one sentence. That shows true determination to make an ass of yourself. One the assumption that not foolishly repeating BS from Trump means I'm voting for Biden is itself BS. I'm not voting for Biden either. And the implication that Biden is the crook when implicitly defending Trump is ridiculous. Influence peddling is largely legalized, so that system is corrupt. But it's Trump who cheats vendors and whose Trump university is a straightforward fraud and whose foundation is nothing but a tax scam and who very likely falsified his tax returns to hide his real profits too. This strongly suggests librul is a morally diseased clown who admires lawbreakers if they're both vicious and successful. Biden isn't much, but he isn't really rich, not by the crazed standards in the US and he isn't nasty little shit like Trump. Those aren't really reasons to make him president, but liking Biden as a person more than Trump is basically common decency.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 25 2020 15:43 utc | 16

https://www.rubikon.news/artikel/das-corona-zauberkunststuck

Posted by: E | Oct 25 2020 15:48 utc | 17

@16 Steven

Interesting. My take on librul's comment on #2 was much more circumspect... which one?

Posted by: Michael | Oct 25 2020 15:55 utc | 18

@2 ST Johnson. Biden's computer. Nobody seems to be interested in the cache of teeny-bopper porn found there. Mainly his 14 yr old niece but other girls too.
You could add some files to a comp carefully if you had the tools, but deep faking the whole thing? Probably not.
But where did they get the pics of her, and her with him?
Anyway it would be illegal anywhere in the US. How odd.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Oct 25 2020 16:01 utc | 19

Here is a Biden quote that is likely going to be talked about heatedly for months

As everyone knows, we have a very strong chance of having a contested election, to say the least.
The threat of voter fraud being at a magnitude not experienced in this country since...forever(?)
has been in the news for months. If you are not concerned about it then you haven't been paying attention.

Now along comes Biden and not only does he throw a match into gasoline
he uses instead a flame thrower. Amazing!


Biden Brags About Assembling "Most Extensive Voter Fraud Organization In History"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/joe-biden-brags-about-assembling-most-extensive-inclusive-voter-fraud-organization


Posted by: librul | Oct 25 2020 16:12 utc | 20

@19 Guo Wengui has the resources. He obviou;sy hates the CCP and hitting Hunter Biden is a way of attacking them. Not sure where Steve Bannon fits into it but I guess he has his own axe to grind. Anyway it won't get much traction unless twitter, facebook and google want it out there..

Posted by: dh | Oct 25 2020 16:17 utc | 21

@18 Michael

It is a good thing I didn't write **two** sentences in my #3 comment instead of just one ;-)
The amount of frothy liquid from Steven would have necessitated a visit to The Mac Shop (Wilmington Delaware, of course).

Posted by: librul | Oct 25 2020 16:24 utc | 22

An interesting week indeed. One only shudders what next week will bring.

It's interesting the 'right' is latching onto Joe's malapropism about 'voter fraud' to ignore the massive voter suppression effort being run by the GOP. Certainly the zealous passions on both sides of the monopoly two-party system coin will drive a few folks to cheat, but the number is so low as to be laughable.

More interesting is the prediction that early voting, mail-in balloting etc. will drive voter participation to its greatest level in 112 years. And that voter participation number, the greatest in over a century is 65%. Regularly the number is 50%. Half the folks in 'the greatest democracy in the history of the world' don't participate, largely because a monopoly two party system in which the chief difference between the two parties is a matter of attitude, does not reflect the bread and butter interests of the majority of people. But even in the bestest election ever a full 35% of the eligible electorate does not vote.

What's the voter participation rate in European countries?

Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 25 2020 16:45 utc | 23

Re: Pepe

Love seeing some of the blue pill tards throwing up in their cabernet these days...

Bidens's

Laptop

Matters

:)

Posted by: JoeG | Oct 25 2020 16:51 utc | 24

@22 librul

I gave up froth when I turned 30. It was way too exhausting. If you have the time (40 minutes) and haven't checked out the Ray McGovern interview @14, I strongly recommend it. That man is such a combination of concise facts, hilarity, and impishness, it's well worth the time. Also, his beard has gotten sooo awesome!!!

Posted by: Michael | Oct 25 2020 16:57 utc | 25

18 folks showed up to listen to Ebola Harris yesterday...
LOLOLOLOL

Posted by: JoeG | Oct 25 2020 16:58 utc | 26

Best Twitter string all week. Lays out everything in easy to read fashion:

https://twitter.com/1776GodandUSA

Joe Biden and his first wife, Neilia, had three children: Hunter, Beau and Naomi. In 1972, Neilia and Naomi, died in a car accident. Joe eventually married a woman named Jill. He already knew her because she had been Hunter's babysitter at the time of the car accident.

AmericanStrong

(Yea THAT seems normal-marry the babysitter). They'd a daughter named Ashley. Ashley lives 'a quiet life' & is frequently in & out of rehab for various substance abuse issues. Now sadly, the sanest, most normal one, of the 3 surviving kids, Beau, dies in 2015 from a brain tumor.

AmericanStrong

He had been married to Haillie and they had 2 children, a boy and a girl named Natalie, who was 11 yrs old when her dad died. Enter Hunter Biden, in 2015, to "comfort" his brother's widow. Mind you, Hunter is married at the time, to Kathleen Biden, since 1993.

AmericanStrong

He starts screwing around with his dead brother's wife in 2015...his wife Kathleen finds out about it and they separate. Hunter moves in with his dead brother's wife, Haillie,and her two kids and they have a grand old time. He ultimately gets divorced from Kathleen in 2017.

AmericanStrong

Meanwhile, he starts screwing around with a stripper, while still shacking up with his dead brother's wife, before his divorce is finalized, and gets the stripper pregnant. Haillie kicks his butt to the curb supposedly for this indiscretion in 2018.

AmericanStrong

He denies the stripper's baby is his, although a paternity test proves otherwise and eventually marries a woman named Melissa in 2019 after 6 days...does the tale end there? Why no, no it doesn't. That just sets the stage...

AmericanStrong

Enter the laptop from hell...loaded with emails, text messages, photos, child pornography, videos, and other sordid digital images....Hunter Biden dropped the laptop off in Delaware, his home state, to get it repaired.

AmericanStrong

It seems he dropped it in some water while in a meth-induced state of mind. He then neglected to pay the $85 repair fee & the laptop became the repair shop owner's property for non-payment. When the owner saw what was on it,he contacted the FBI. No response. The DOJ? No response.

AmericanStrong

Eventually, it landed in Rudy Giuliani's possession and he turned it over to the Delaware State Police AFTER making 4 copies of the hard drive. Turns out, there's quite a lot of child pornography on there...much of it involving children on Hunter's many trips to China.

AmericanStrong

The Chinese Communist Party uses this as a blackmail tactic...they supply the young girls, they film you, unknowingly, and then they can keep you "in line", while paying you the big $$$ to do their bidding, like lucrative deals with your VP father.Millions of dollars was paid to Hunter Biden for favors with the US Govt while Joe Biden was VP under Obama. 8 years Hunter made the contacts and split the money with his father: Joe Biden sold out his country and used his meth head son to do it.

AmericanStrong

But, IT GETS WORSE. Today, on the laptop, emails were released between Beau Biden's widow, Haillie, and Joe Biden in 2017 and more in 2018 when she and Hunter were still living together.

AmericanStrong

They were casually talking about Hunter's continually "sexually inappropriate behavior" she'd witnessed from Hunter toward her 14y/o daughter, Natalie, HIS NIECE! She told Joe that she felt she had put her children in a dangerous situation by getting involved w/ Hunter Biden.

AmericanStrong

Joe knew his son was screwing around with his niece and he advised his daughter-in-law to go to therapy.....no one went to the police and the abuse escalated. THAT is the main reason she broke off her relationship with Hunter.

AmericanStrong

Among the pictures of Hunter having sex with young Asian children, there were hundreds of provocative pictures of a 14 year old girl, mainly topless, and hundreds more of Hunter Biden, in sexual poses with her, HIS NIECE. She was 14 yrs old and HE WAS 48!!

AmericanStrong

BOTTOM LINE: ANY MAN WHO CAN'T TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN HOUSE, HAS NO BUSINESS BEING IN THE WHITE HOUSE. THE END.....but, is it? Nope.

AmericanStrong

Rudy says there is more to come, primarily involving Joe Biden getting rich off laundering foreign money through our country, using his son as intermediary. Biden is as dirty and crooked as they come. Hillary looks clean compared to him.

AmericanStrong

Now it makes sense why Obama REFUSED to endorse him as the DNC candidate until he was the last man standing! More to come...dear God, how much worse can this get?

Biden's
Laptop
Matters

Posted by: JoeG | Oct 25 2020 17:03 utc | 27

Today's 'Glorious Leader' propaganda

These themes are appearing everywhere in various guises:

  • 'Glorious Leader' Trump is the people's hero!
  • The Nation's enemies HATE our 'Glorious Leader' Trump!
  • 'Glorious Leader' Trump is an infallible winner who will lead us to victory!

These themes can be seen in today's links and commentary:

Trump as a populist

He's a populist only in that he plays to the crowd. Like any con man.

Trump is a faux populist - the Republican Obama.

=
Supression of the laptop

A feature, not a bug.

The appearance of the laptop on the eve of the election is no accident. Just as the nomination of Joe Biden is no accident. And the bullshit "resistance" put up by the Democrats is not accident.

=
Trump and Covid-19

b asks:

Should Trump be blamed for Covid-19 deaths. Sure, he did not help. But the states are responsible and they differ very much in their approaches. Vermont and Maine are doing okay. The two Dakotas and many others seem to have different priorities. What would a different administration have done? To what effect?

An adequate response would've been to:

  • immediately declare a Nation Emergency to have the power necessary to adequately protect the country

    instead Trump lied to the American people about the virus and waited to declare a National Emergency until the dire situation (that he had allowed to occur) could cover for a bailout of Wall Street and Boeing;

  • effectively restrict air travel and conduct testing at the airports with mandatory quarantine for sick travelers

    Trump's travel ban was ineffective because it only covered direct flights from China and there was no testing at the airport, only self-identification;

  • learn from the experience of others

    instead the Trump Administration adopted a harmful "not invented here" approach that was prompted by a pretended distrust of Chinese intentions

    example: Chinese quarantined anyone suspected of having the virus recovery centers while Western governments urged people feeling sick to remain home and sent infected people back home where they would infect others;

  • set proper goals: virus eradication instead of bending the curve

  • provide LEADERSHIP

    - set a good example

    - hold public health officials accountable (why hasn't anyone been fired?)

    - make the pandemic fight bi-partisan by including Democrats

    - build public trust with truthful, up-to-date info and guard against propaganda and misleading info

    (most people in USA didn't even know what the symptoms of SARS-COV-2 were until late March and even that was incomplete - diarrhea wasn't added until July!)

Note: This list is not meant to be complete.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

The positioning of Trump as 'Glorious Leader' is not happenstance

IMO this was planned before the 2016 election. It is the kind of thing a country's power-elite undertake in order to prepare a nation for war. Since at least 2014, the US Deep State - managers of the Empire - have been engaged in responding to the Alliance of China-Russia. An Alliance that challenges the Empire's hegemonic New World Order (NWO).

Both Biden and Trump are "safe hands" in that they are Deep Staters and will do the bidding of the Deep State.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2020 17:21 utc | 28

Well this is, from my point of view, rolercoaster of a year. Pandemic, divorce, IRS stuff and possible jail time on top of fines, and now, US elections that might (and possible will) trigger US civil war and crash of US dollar, leading to even worse pandeconomic-ic for whole world.

What a time to live in.

Posted by: Abe | Oct 25 2020 17:37 utc | 29

For the record, I am not John McAfee.

Posted by: Abe | Oct 25 2020 17:39 utc | 30

Down South @ 4

Understand something about nursing homes. They generate large numbers of predictable and easy to manipulate votes. State inspection problems are resolved by producing more votes. Wide open corruption, fully institutionalized, so normal no one thinks about it. And they are very profitable. Only problem with old people dying in nursing homes is it becomes very slightly more difficult to conjure expected tally of votes. Every nursing home in the country works closely with whichever political party dominates in whichever county

Also keep in mind that USA does not have national elections. Instead we have 3000+ county elections that occur on the same day. Few counties are other than one party rule. The county Democratic Party Chairman or Republican Party Chairman is all-powerful on Election Day. The county chairman has tight relationships with every nursing home.

In general this commenter does not believe most covid statistics. In general I believe they are inflated. Nursing home deaths the reverse is true. Nursing home deaths are amazingly simple to fool with. Death certificates are again the business of the county. Reporting covid deaths is bad for business so they don’t.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 25 2020 17:46 utc | 31

Pompeo’s last foreign tour will be no victory lap: Global Times editorial

--//--

Secessionist DPP, colluding with the US, pushes cross-Straits to brink of war: observer

It's important to highlight the fact that the DPP is not an independentist party, but a secessionist one: they don't want independence for the island of Taiwan; they want Taiwan to become a colony of the USA.

--//--

Why China's dramatic economic recovery might not add up

I bit the bullet and read the whole article. It's one of the biggest collections of "what the fuck?" moments I've ever read.

I sincerely failed to see where is the big fraud the headline claims to be. Nothing China used is alien to Western accountancy. I remember every Western expert praising the Troika's "rescue package" to Greece when it registered a +1.1% GDP growth the day after the package was announced.

--//--

As China clamps down, activists flee Hong Kong for refuge in the West

Or, alternatively: "CIA assets in Hong Kong come back to home".

--//--

Japan looking to make PCR tests easier for those with no COVID-19 symptoms


Oops! One more government that doesn't know what it is doing, according to the Covidiots here in this blog. PCR tests are a fraud, after all...

--//--

The Great American Famine; The Liberal Genocide of 2020:

America and the Virus: ‘A Colossal Failure of Leadership’ -- In its destruction of American lives, treasure and well-being, this pandemic marks the greatest failure of U.S. governance since Vietnam.

--//--

The real reason why Putinism is with its days counted:

Why Russia commands strategic arms talks with weakening US

Yeltsin 2.0 is coming...

Posted by: vk | Oct 25 2020 17:57 utc | 32

Look how Russia undermines democracy in the US...

https://twitter.com/jimmy_dore/status/1320247208298516480

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 25 2020 17:59 utc | 33

a. the politics and insider persons and entities who fight among themselves, within the the USA
b. private politicians and wealthy entities external to the USA who by their wealth or size rule the USA

The problem is neither a nor b reflect the political and social inclination of mainstream America!

Neither candidate, nor the party system which supports them, reflects the political inclination of mainstream America, neither candidate is a result of an election, or any other process, in which the masses self determined by collective self will, the type of government or who they collectively decide to ask to lead the government that commands Americans and controls their lives.

The authors of the Declaration of Independence (1776) were faced with just such a situation. British Aristocracy, land grant governorships, British government by rule of law and military force protected massive and powerful British Corporations doing business in colonial America. These massive and powerful corporations were siphoning from America all Americans could produce and channeling the collective net productivity of the American colonialist in British Colonial America back to the British corporations and their Wealthy British (Wall Street) investors.

The Continental Congress wrote. WHEN IN THE COURSE OF HUMAN EVENTS, IT BECOMES NECESSARY FOR ONE PEOPLE TO DISSOLVE THE POLITICAL BANDS WHICH HAVE CONNECTED THEM WITH ANOTHER, AND TO ASSUME AMONG THE POWERS OF THE EARTH, THE SEPARATE AND EQUAL STATION TO WHICH THE LAWS OF NATURE AND OF NATURE’S GOD ENTITLE THEM, it then goes on to say..

Experience has shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably they same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies(states) : and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their form Systems of government.

I think it can be shown that the History of the present [government] .. is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over [the governed people in] these States,
printed with permission.

No matter the heads I win tails you lose (Trump v. Biden result), America and Americans lose.

Posted by: snake | Oct 25 2020 18:05 utc | 34

I want the Jeffersonian republic back. But Thomas Jefferson owned slaves til he freed them at his death, oh my. You can already see here there are those who judge people. from a different era just to make themselves feel superior. I'm glad to know they are perfect. Does that superiority make one a supremacist? I get so confused about wokeness rules.

Also isn't Hunter's lawyers trying to get the laptop back? Oddly they are not suing the NY Post over salacious hacked lies. Anyway that all pales with big daddy bragging about setting up the biggest and best voter fraud the country ever has seen. Let's face it Joe knows he'll get away with it. Guess that make him, woke world, and its liberal owners all complicit with cheating and fraud. How does that make their beloved equality... dare I say...equal?

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Oct 25 2020 18:08 utc | 35

@Posted by: JoeG | Oct 25 2020 17:03 utc | 27

Re: Biden crime family

Mustn't forget Joe Biden's 33yr old niece Caroline (daughter of James Biden), a veritable one-person crime wave, who nevertheless seems to have skated through it all with nothing beyond a stern finger wagging from the judge.

https://nymag.com/tags/caroline-biden/

https://nypost.com/2017/06/09/joe-bidens-niece-dodges-jail-after-100k-credit-card-scam/

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1125690/joe-biden-niece-arrested-drunk-driving/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8513719/Joe-Bidens-niece-Caroline-33-arrested-year-DUI-year-probation.html

https://nypost.com/2020/10/04/dui-court-date-for-joe-bidens-niece-set-for-day-after-presidential-election/

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 18:13 utc | 36

RE: Biden crime family:

They sound like bunch of rednecks to me. It's the first time I have understood Joe Biden's supposed connection to the white working class. This explains a lot about Joe. Hollywood Hillbillies 2.0.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 25 2020 18:25 utc | 37

I've never heard a rabbit whine so much...
:)

Posted by: JoeG | Oct 25 2020 18:30 utc | 38

I keep thinking of Steven King's book "The Stand". Could Trump be the Walking Dude?

"We're Not Going to Control the Pandemic," Trump Chief of Staff Says on Live TV as Covid Cases Surge

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 25 2020 18:33 utc | 39

Ethics and moral standards of Irish travelling gypsies, including, it seems, hints of the uncle-niece and cousin to cousin consanguinity thang. I wonder if that's why Caroline got so messed up?

This link goes into a lot more Bidens than just her:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8513719/Joe-Bidens-niece-Caroline-33-arrested-year-DUI-year-probation.html

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 18:39 utc | 40


This was going to be a response to vk @ 32 but is maybe more like a sitrep. Yes, I am a covidiot. Here in Illinois the Department of Public Health is telling us more than 7 million of us have been tested. Not 7 million tests but 7 million different people. More than half the population. Anyone who is still breathing air knows that this is utter rubbish. No one believes this. What has occurred is 7 million billing opportunities. In a few months they are going to have to say that we have all been tested, each and every one of us. And then even the unconscious will know that the official story is rubbish.

No one seems to grasp how corrupt the entire process is. No one seems to understand that the US has no concept of public health.

There are constant proclamations in all media that testing is free and available and anyone can be tested, symptoms not necessary. BS. Go to a testing location and it is same as always. The staff are bureaucrats who have been given a small particle of power and they are going to use it. For any who sincerely wish to be tested the basic stratagem is to tell the staff that you are very very sick. Tell them you are so sick that if it were not all theater they should forget the swab and call an ambulance right now. Act up the part big time and they might be able to produce a swab. Or maybe not. They are still going to ask you if you have traveled to China in past 14 days and are still going to make your visit bureaucratic hell. And likely in two weeks they will tell you your test results have been lost. And send you a bill.

Where testing is occurring is in employment. Health care in US is fundamentally employment based so this makes some sort of sense. Those still working likely have to interact with public. Reports I hear are that if you get a swab at workplace they are probably going to swab again in a months time and the tests do add up. Also reported is that 10-20% of the tests come back positive. And a positive test is simply a pass to two weeks off work, usually with pay. But no one in the office gets sick. The few who might get sick are always the obvious suspects. Those who are way past retirement age. Those over 300 pounds. Those who already have a stack of health issues. Most get the positive result and just laugh at it. Even in workplaces where there are significant numbers of those obviously at risk, few of those get sick after a positive. Everyone is an asymptomatic positive. Everyone. And those who experience this month after month, no matter how conventional or how stupid, stop believing the endless fear campaign.

A modest proposal. It becomes more and more apparent covid is primarily a disease of fat people. Those fatsos are also vectors of infection. So lockdown the fat. Hard lockdown and you can get out if you lose fifty pounds. The rest of us resume life. Not entirely facetious here. Remember the notion of getting R-naught below 1? Locking down the fat would do it. So would passing out Vitamin D but that is not sufficiently punitive to suit American culture.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 25 2020 18:44 utc | 41

@ Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Oct 25 2020 18:08 utc | 35

Now this is a common misconception many people born after the post-war commit frequently.

Liberalism arose spontaneously during the 16th Century in Western Europe - developing mainly in the Netherlands and then the UK (after the Glorious Revolution).

The concept of equality and freedom of these original liberals (of whom Locke was one) had nothing to do with the concept we use since the post-war: they were defending cattle slavery over feudal serfdom. Cattle slavery was freedom, said the liberals, because slaves were "movable property", i.e. the slaveowner could freely move and expand his property and get richer. The feudal serf was tied to the land and could not be moved from it, therefore increasing the power of the king and the feudal lords. In the early liberal scripts, you can easily observe what can only be described as an obsession with the concept of "movable property", i.e. the concept that property can be - and should be - movable (an alien concept to feudalism).

The feudal dominant classes, obviously, were against cattle slavery. And they used the institution that gave themselves legitimacy to argument against it: the Church. That's why the original Christian Fundamentalists were the most fervent abolitionists: cattle slavery weakened the power of the Church, too, as slaves were not men, but property, so they could not be baptized, let alone marry.

But the feudal lords didn't have any influence over what the colonialists did in America (New World). They were feudal lords, after all - their power derived from a fixed piece of land (kingdom, fief) given to them by the Christian God Himself. America wasn't given to them by God. The Western world, therefore, was divided by a dual-system for a good three centuries, where the liberals were confined to America and feudalism continued to exist in Europe. With time, this dual-system degenerated to become defined by race: "negroes" (blacks) were naturally-born slaves, while whites were naturally-born freemen. The Irish question continued to be a torn in this narrative, and the British liberals of the time knew this piece of hypocrisy.

The original liberals (Thomas Jefferson among them) loved to compare themselves with Ancient Rome and, sometimes, Ancient Greece. Their ideal model was the Roman Republic and the Athenian Republic, where an oligarchy was part of the "civil society", while the slaves were just property. In these systems, "men" were just the ones with political rights. Freedom to them is to be ruled by rules you consent (i.e. you wrote alongside your equals).

Indeed, the French Revolution of 1789 was condemned by the liberals at the time. They questioned the implicit abolitionist tone of its Constitution. They claimed that, if everybody was free, nobody was free (as there would be no slaves, therefore no property, therefore no freedom).

Hence, when Jefferson wrote "all men are created equal", he's unequivocally talking about the slaveowners only. It was obvious to all Americans who could read at the time. It's only after the socialist era (1848-present) that the American Constitution was "reinterpreted" so that "all men are created equal" to mean "all human beings".

Posted by: vk | Oct 25 2020 18:47 utc | 42

taibbi can be hit or miss with the "hits" being a good read and the misses...not so much. the linked article is okay (basically saying what johnstone and greenwald among others have already said over the past weeks) but then:

"The Republican version of Burisma story – essentially, that former General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin was Elliott Ness, and Joe Biden intervened to fire him specifically to aid his son’s company – is also not supported by evidence."

it kinda f_cking IS though, matt. was biden bragging about it on tape a "deep fake"?

it reminds me of the way even ostensibly "left"(ish) journalists always start a point with "now i know maduro is a rapist who stomps kittens on porn sites, BUT..." which just buys into the whole "we totes love the people just not the 'dictator' they elected" intervention nonsense. these are the people who would actually fall for the "do you still beat your wife?!?!?" trap.

Posted by: the pair | Oct 25 2020 19:06 utc | 43

@JoeG | Oct 25 2020 18:30 utc | 38

I've never heard a rabbit whine so much...:)

Sound of a distressed (jack)rabbit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S83hCpKBgeQ

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 19:27 utc | 44

You know that time Joe's eyes started bleeding... Does that always happen when he gets bad news?
Beelzebub is not pleased. He has been humiliated but knows that after the election he will have his revenge.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Oct 25 2020 19:28 utc | 45

Everyone be honest here. Have ever heard a jackrabbit at all?
I was listening to the AI nerds discussing the nuances involved in identifying this moose... which happened to be a caribou.
A machine would know the differences... and certain types of Canadians would but not an engineer. So... that tells you things and is funny and so layered.
I am working on tying a musk joke into that but they wouldn't get it of course. But we would.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Oct 25 2020 19:41 utc | 46

"The Republican version of Burisma story – essentially, that former General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin was Elliott Ness, and Joe Biden intervened to fire him specifically to aid his son’s company – is also not supported by evidence."
_____________________________________________

There is not much of anything that is supported by the evidence.

Biden's story about getting the prosecutor fired is a perfect example of an evidence free story. Biden's bragging story claims he got the prosecutor fired in less than 6 hours or he would leave Ukraine and not give them 1 billion dollars. And yet the evidence shows that Biden was nowhere near Ukraine when prosecutor Shokin resigned and there was no $1Bn released as a consequence of Shokin leaving office. Prosecutor Shokin has provided sworn testimony in a court affidavit that he knew nothing about Biden wanting him fired until more than a year after he left office when he saw the video with Biden bragging about getting the prosecutor fired.

Nobody cares about evidence - when you got a good story who needs evidence? The left wing says Biden is a hero for getting rid of a corrupt Ukraine prosecutor and the right wing says that Biden fired the prosecutor because he was investigating Hunter. The left wing has invented facts to support Biden's story because they would never admit Biden's story was a bragging lie. The story about investigating Hunter is a bit suspect also because Hunter has never been in Ukraine and thus it seems unlikely Ukraine law would have any jurisdiction of any act by Hunter.

The reason that was given for Shokin's resignation at the time it happened was that the people of Ukraine had lost confidence in Shokin because he had failed to prosecute any of the Maidan sniper murders and there was protests in the streets demanding his resignation for that failure.
Even Shokin says that at that time was why he believed he was resigning.


Posted by: jinn | Oct 25 2020 19:51 utc | 47

Old rabbit proverb

Trust biggest ears, not biggest mouth.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2020 19:55 utc | 48

The have admitted that they have held the Hunter laptop for over a year. Of course they are orchestrating the release at this time to affect the election. They have pounded on the Trumper like a drum for over four years for a reason. Obama was largely treated like a saint for eight years for a reason.

We all knew it was going to be a shit show. Now the Hunter sex tapes are being release. I have seen one where he is tooting a crack pipe and getting a foot massage of his pecker.

I have had enough. Time for me to go into the basement and take a month long nap.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 25 2020 20:02 utc | 49

I presume the following article by Reuters is a provocation, comments?

Putin rejects Donald Trump's criticism of Biden family business

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Sunday that he saw nothing criminal in Hunter Biden’s past business ties with Ukraine or Russia, marking out his disagreement with one of Donald Trump’s attack lines in the U.S. presidential election.

I can't imagine Putin saying something stupid like that.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 25 2020 20:06 utc | 50

@ jinn | Oct 25 2020 19:51 utc | 47 who wrote
"
The story about investigating Hunter is a bit suspect also because Hunter has never been in Ukraine and thus it seems unlikely Ukraine law would have any jurisdiction of any act by Hunter.
"
I can only conjecture that you are new to the MoA bar because the Ukraine story has been covered extensively here.....

And to further show yourself why don't you reply to the following comment that just appeared as OT in another MoA thread by commenter Inkan1969 | Oct 25 2020 19:52 utc | 85

"
Can someone check this article?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-putin-idUSKBN27A0TA

“Yes, in Ukraine he (Hunter Biden) had or maybe still has a business, I don’t know. It doesn’t concern us. It concerns the Americans and the Ukrainians,” said Putin.

“But well yes he had at least one company, which he practically headed up, and judging from everything he made good money. I don’t see anything criminal about this, at least we don’t know anything about this (being criminal).”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2020 20:08 utc | 51

michael@18 asks a question I don't understand. librul@3 drew the moronic conclusion my post @2 meant I was voting for Biden while also imply Trump wasn't a crook, which is also moronic. (No, librul was not being ironic about how voting for either man would be voting for a crook.) I was the one who thought Jeffersonianism is not what it's cracked up to be was my comment and librul had zero to say on that.

Horsman and Joe G seem to have private information I know nothing about. Perhaps they've been briefed by superiors with police contacts? Inasmuch as Hunter Biden isn't running for president, it is still true that the relevant issue is what the email correspondence between Joe and Hunter shows about Joe's dealings with Burisma.

I've already forgotten which fool managed to forget that Trump publicly asked for Russian help in hacking the Democrats. But no one with any sense whatsoever honestly believes that means Trump is a Russian asset. That's like thinking Biden is a traitor for bragging about pressuring Ukraine, except using a double standard for extra special hypocrisy.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 25 2020 20:10 utc | 52

Trump plays Biden's rambling lifeguard recollection: "...I got hairy legs...and the kids used to come up and reach in and pull..and rub my legs up and down...and I loved kids jumping on my lap... " video, on the Jumbotron at his New Hampshire rally today[?].

https://twitter.com/Yanky_Pollak/status/1320423399416619008

Trump actually went there... and just a day after Hunter's crack-smoking hairy legged hand/foot-job kompromat video hit the intertubes last night, and is fresh in everyone's minds.

That is really sharp message coordination.

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 20:14 utc | 53

Norwegian | Oct 25 2020 20:06 utc | 50

I presume the following article by Reuters is a provocation, comments?

Putin rejects Donald Trump's criticism of Biden family business

Sorry, the link was bad, trying again
Putin rejects Donald Trump's criticism of Biden family business

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 25 2020 20:17 utc | 54

Interesting series of conversations yesterday.
My wife was invited to a (likely illegal) house party literally 55 miles away.
On the ride share way down, talking to the driver - including about COVID. He is Brazilian, is employed by a big company as a web guy and had just returned to SF from Florida where he had temporarily relocated to in March. Too expensive in SF Bay Area even for an employed so he also does Lyft driving.
Anyway, we had a very friendly an interesting discussion on COVID. He started with the usual line: lockdowns, masks, etc.
I then asked him: You were in SF when the lockdowns started then you were in Florida. Compare the economic situation in the 2 places. He agreed Florida was a world different.
I then asked him - did you look at the relative performance of Florida vs. California?
Florida has had 3.6 people per 100 test positive and 0.0765 deaths per 100 due to COVID.
California has had 2.3 people per 100 test positive and 0.044 deaths per 100 due to COVID.
California is better - although at least some of this is relative ages of the population (Florida median age is 41.6 vs. California median age 36).
However, the premise of the lockdowns was that it would stop COVID in CA. It has not.
I then asked him, what I noted here on MoA: how much longer can people withstand lockdowns? Restaurants in SF have been greatly expanding outdoor seating as much as possible, but every single place around me - that I have looked at - has less than 50% capacity vs. pre-lockdown.
Unless rents fall - it doesn't seem clear at all that these restaurants are going to survive at all.
I also asked him about Brazil: another COVID hotspot.
Brazil has 2.52 cases per 100 people and 0.0737 deaths per 100 people.
So we agreed on this:
1) Lockdowns *do not* stop COVID. They may or may not have some benefit in reducing deaths short term - but the jury is still out on long term. Without mass vaccinations, all that happens is "flattening the curve" but the area under the curve (i.e. people sick and dying) isn't going to reduce.
2) What is the health impact of the lockdowns? As noted before: suicides, murders and overdoses are all way up. The absolute numbers aren't that high but the people dying of these causes are far, far younger.

We also talked a lot about his work and his interest in doing cyber security in the future.

On the the party:
Even the most pro-lockdown person I could find (mostly 50+, mostly conservative) believes we won't have a vaccine good to go until 2022.
So I asked him: what happens if we lock down for another 18 months vs. the 7 we have had? Will there be anything left?
It was clear he hadn't thought about this at all.
I also him: we have been locked down in CA for 7 months. COVID has not gone away.
Engineers say: "If its stupid and it works, it isn't stupid".
The corollary is: "If its smart and it doesn't work, it isn't smart".
Are the lockdowns working either as advertised (stop COVID) or reducing the area under the curve?
Given the resurgence of lockdowns all over Europe and Asia, it is very clear that "Stop COVID" isn't working.
What about reducing the area under the curve? (not the slope)
Again, if we cannot test, approve, manufacture, distribute and administer vaccine to at least 50% of the population for another 1 to 3 years - how exactly will lockdowns help?
California's budget shortfall for 2020 stands at 42% reduction as of August NPR on CA budget shortfall
This is for 5 months of lockdown.
In dollar terms, what was a projected $5.6 billion surplus in January is, so far, a $54 billion deficit - note this vs. a budget of $222B.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 25 2020 20:18 utc | 55

@ 47 jinn... i would argue that we are not allowed to look at the evidence, as it's typically hidden out of view... why is that??? why is everything stamped top secret?? it is only accidentally, or thru alternative means that we find out of phone calls between nuland and pyatt the usa ambassdor to ukraine for example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfdrG46kH-Q i get it that they wouldn't want this to be broadcast widely for the bad light it sheds on the usa's agenda in ukraine..

the fact is the usa had its hands all over ukraine in the lead up to the coup in ukraine in 2014... if that doesn't look suspect, i am not sure what does... as for bidens bragging about ukraine not getting the 1 billion unless the prosecutor gets fired - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oesl2RXpfPQ why is it deemed acceptable that biden had gone over to ukraine 13 or 14 times prior to this loan, working out details on the fate of the people of ukraine in the first place??? the optics look bad, but i concede it is hard to get at the important details if vested interests are always working to keep them concealed.. same deal the response to hunter bidens e mails - cover up is the name of the game.. see fb and twitter response as confirmation... why is this??? why is there so much to fucking hide and all these people are so supposed to be so fucking clean?? that is the part that doesn't add up for me... and that is the part where i think people in the usa in particular ought to be asking questions as opposed to accepting being stonewalled so easily... that is what boogles my mind... of course partisan politics is very strong in the usa... i personally don't give a shit what side of the divide is trying to cover up information... the cover up stinks and sheds a very bad light on the exceptional nation.. it sheds an even worse light on the usa msm..

i figured i'd throw my 2 cents in here since all that ever gets discussed is usa politics leading up into the never ending election fufah which seems like it never ends..

Posted by: james | Oct 25 2020 20:21 utc | 56

c1ue @Oct25 20:18 55

Naturally, your simplified pro- vs. anti-lockdown comparison ignores the experience of countries like South Korea, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, etc.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 25 2020 20:29 utc | 57

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 25 2020 20:17 utc | 54

It is accurate but incomplete. Of course Putin has the necessary experience so as not to fall in the trap of choosing a candidate, regardless of his true preference, like Poroshenko did in Ukraine, he was for Hillary in the open like many others since he believed Hillary was a done deal, but she was not, and he is not president anymore, Putin is not going to make the same mistake.

Asked about Hunter, he repeated a few times that he did not know details, something hard to believe, and he remarked with a special tone the fact of the good money paid to Hunter but kept it in the business sphere, I do not suspect anything criminal he said, but, and there is a great but that the reuters article does not contain, at the end he is informed of Trump saying that Biden got money from Russia and keeps on getting money from Russia, and the answer was a pause, such a pause that the journo asked: no comment? the answer, no comment. Interpret that, could be no could be yes. So either side will say whatever is convenient for them to say.

Posted by: Paco | Oct 25 2020 20:44 utc | 59

Backlash effects of science...bet that those in Silicon Valley, like Thiel, looking for ethernal life would do whatever is needed to get studied one of these worms...Novichok is not the only thing we will find smuggled from one point to another, I fear, and for the most spurious purposes....
It seems that Covid-19 is only the starting point....

https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/1320434844212596737

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 25 2020 20:52 utc | 60

@Paco | Oct 25 2020 20:44 utc | 59

Thanks for commenting. The Reuters article refers to Sputnik as source, and I have found
this one that does not mention Hunter Biden at all, unlike the Reuter article.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 25 2020 20:55 utc | 61

"Cling to words, the sure gate to the Temple of wisdom" Mephisto, Faust 1

this way you will either be "Vor dem Gesetz" and never actually be admitted to "the Law" as the gatekeepers put up more and more barriers, rules, fees, etc. Or alternatively, after costly admittance to the Temple and with some access to its "wisdom," you never leave, so bedazzled by idols and incense and the profit and loss.

"go to the ant, lazy person". "consider the birds". etc., etc. jump those borders and poop all over their childish rituals and sacrifices and empty knowledge of dry bones.

e.g., this from wsws article on MMT:
"The value of each commodity is determined by the amount of socially necessary labour required to produce it." in this statement which is an article of faith of these rather fundamentalist Troskyites, like every bourgeois economist, they have determined that the value of the material resources necessary before labor begins is a big fat ZERO, $0.00.

like every spreadsheet written at least since Excel, if not since doubly entry accounting, the water, trees, air, people, owls, moonshine and sunbeam, all start out as costs because they get in the way of whatever bullshit a capitalist pig is doing. the dynamite to damn a river is a cost to be paid out of the gold from the mine. all the other rubble doesn't even count except as it gets in the way and needs to be dumped somewhere else.

we need to go back to some philosophical wandering as Hegel insists in the preface to the Philosophy of Right. "the logos is common to all"-Heracleitus. there are no temples of wisdom. in the US, wisdom means not recognizing that not a damn word in that oh so inspiring Declaration of Independence means a thing compared to this bullshit sentence (see VK above):

Britain "has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions." (ah eloquence, what do you mean?)

(Jack Rabbit is right about Trump. doesn't mean he can't be sacrificed but his chaos is useful.)

Wisdom cries out in the streets, at the city gates. and none regard her, as Falstaff noted. because wisdom cries out for the voice in the wilderness. people can't make a straight path to anything. they all know they need to be washed but they don't even recognize that their neighbor poops too, in the same stream they use for their ablutions and baptisms.

we fight over bathroom access. We can only get our shit together together.

Posted by: jason | Oct 25 2020 20:57 utc | 62

@ Paco | Oct 25 2020 20:44 utc | 59

Agreed. Putin walked a diplomatic tightwire in answering in such a way as to preserve his political capital whichever candidate comes out on top.

He's in good position with this answer if Biden should win, and alternatively, if he said something overtly supportive of Trump's 'Biden corruption' narrative, it would be a 'lose-lose' for both trump and Putin, as it would be taken/used as ammunition to politically attack Trump as a Putin's puppet/ally.

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 20:58 utc | 63

@ E | Oct 25 2020 15:48 utc | 17

Thank you for the Rubicon link. While I haven’t made up mind yet, and while I continue to take precautions, if I were a betting man and if I were forced to place a bet, then I’d call the Covid-19 pandemic “Saddam’s WMD 4.0”.

What were the previous versions? Iraq was of course “Saddam’s WMD 1.0”, followed by Obama being an anti war and pro peace president (“Saddam’s WMD 2.0”), and then followed by Russian collusion (“Saddam’s WMD 3.0”). I have a perfect score in calling out the last three public brainwash campaigns. If past performance is any predictor of future performance then there is a good chance of me being right this time as well.

You may enjoy this long interview with Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsXPe33kLt8

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Oct 25 2020 21:08 utc | 64

The comments were made in a program that gives some takes of the Valday Forum, curiously the bigger part of the interview is about how Russia is not against the US presence in Afghanistan, he said it saves us money¡¡¡¡¡¡, he extended himself about how in spite of many disagreements Russia and the US collaborate in a number of areas. The program is something like off camera takes on the Valday forum, some interesting angles, and the interview is roughly between 6:00 and 14:00 minutes. In Russian.

https://youtu.be/EkcDfh1E_m0

Posted by: Paco | Oct 25 2020 21:10 utc | 65

Pericles is blunt in his final injunction to Athens in the funeral oration: don't let female grief distract you from the beautiful city we men are building. no Antigones, no Andromaches, no Hecubas, no Ophelias or pregger bag ladies.

don't consider the sacrifice of youth, much less the rest of nature, that is the central ritual of our temples, as Hans Castorp learned on "the Magic Mountain", while skiing during a blizzard. the maintenance of the social order requires Kronos to devour his children. social evolution, the urge and the right of youth to build its own future, must be denied.

kids across the world cannot be allowed to share short jazz dance videos on Tik Tok with each other precisely because it would destroy the social order as children everywhere learn the truth: the parents and elders and rulers fuck you up. US kids don't actually hate Chinese or Russians. don't tell anyone.

Cain wandered ages from his karmic debt...till he hit Edenic California...which in really about 100 years, we've managed to burn down, from envy.

Posted by: jason | Oct 25 2020 21:22 utc | 66

ugh, HTML

Posted by: jason | Oct 25 2020 21:32 utc | 67

Posted by: jason | Oct 25 2020 21:32 utc | 67

tout pour moi devient allégorie
Et mes chers souvenirs sont plus lourds que des rocs.

Posted by: Paco | Oct 25 2020 21:48 utc | 68

@Posted by: jason | Oct 25 2020 20:57 utc | 62

Did you know that Guthrie was tenant at Trump´s, the father, condo, and made verses complaining on the usuric conditions and banning of black people from hiring a flat there?
Read it at one linked article from a linked article in one of Pepe Escobar´s last articles...

You would be a good polemizer while talking with Pope Francis on the argued by him neccesity of renunciation of ideals and goals by the left so as to avoid our nations being destroyed by the fascists sent in by the US Trump administration to stir up things in our countries taking advantage of the crisis provoked by the pandemic, for once the left is governing...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 25 2020 21:48 utc | 69

Israel gets oil from Iran, USA gets transport to space from Russia, USA gets oil from Russia, China gets oil from Iran, & the Vatican doesn't have a finger in any of these pies?

Posted by: cadaver | Oct 25 2020 22:07 utc | 70

psycho @51 wrote

I can only conjecture that you are new to the MoA bar because the Ukraine story has been covered extensively here.....
________________________________________
In case you haven't noticed the story is still being discussed at MoA and as far as I can see there is no consensus on what the story actually is. The reason for that is there are no discernible facts on which to base a story - its all just made up bullshit story telling.

Putin is correct there is no evidence that Hunter Biden
was involved in any criminal action in Ukraine. How could there be? There is no evidence Hunter has ever been inside Ukraine. If Hunter Biden committed any illegal acts he did them in Europe or in the USA. So why is trump twisting Ukraine's arm to investigate Hunter Biden? Why isn't he asking the authorities that actually have the power to investigate to do so? Simple answer: it is all fake - no real stuff allowed.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 25 2020 22:22 utc | 71

james:

i would argue that we are not allowed to look at the evidence, as it's typically hidden out of view...
______________________________________
Well of course, if there is a hint of crime the evidence will be hidden if at all possible.
But
what works much better than that is to create hints of fake crimes then there is no worry about the evidence accidentally being revealed.

That way the real crimes go unnoticed.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 25 2020 22:28 utc | 72

@ jinn | Oct 25 2020 22:22 utc | 71

Please watch a brief 4 minute video segment (2:31:30-> 2:35:30) from the YT of Trump rally today in New Hampshire. Nothing more.

Then vote as you wish.

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 23:00 utc | 73

Doh... Forgot to add the link....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_yMehWboV8

Posted by: gm | Oct 25 2020 23:02 utc | 74

Today Honduras became the 50th nation to ratify the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons that makes the Treaty viable beginning 22 January 2021. Iran was one of the 122 nations to vote in favor of the Treaty back in 2017 but hasn't ratified, which would shut up several Outlaw nations if it did. That the nuclear armed nations were all explicitly against the treaty also says they're against the goal written into the NPT that they disarm their nukes:

"the NPT non-nuclear-weapon states agree never to acquire nuclear weapons and the NPT nuclear-weapon states in exchange agree to share the benefits of peaceful nuclear technology and to pursue nuclear disarmament aimed at the ultimate elimination of their nuclear arsenals." [My Emphasis]

The Outlaw US Empire's withdrawal from most existing arms control treaties and refusal to extend the New START Treaty sends a very negative message to the world that it intends to remain an irresponsible Outlaw Nation until it's putdown and forced to obey International Law.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 25 2020 23:07 utc | 75

This is a mixed pie report: "Bankruptcy trends show East beats West." Overall Asia is in much better condition than the Outlaw US Empire or the EU, which I expected back in March, and the gap is likely to grow wider once the pending corporate bankruptcies in Neoliberal nations start to occur.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 25 2020 23:28 utc | 76

One of the issues concerning START was that both the US and Russia were to remove nuclear weapons and then decommission them. This involved disposal of the warheads and their nuclear material

The Russians built reprocessing plants, turned it into fuel and sold it to the US. Their warhead fuel is gone. WHAT IS NOT KNOWN is that the US reprocessing plant was never finished. THE US STILL HAS ALL ITS OLD WARHEADS, IN STORAGE.

Putin agreeing to cap ALL WARHEADS gives the US a possible 5 to 1 advantage to the US. That is why Shoigu opposed it. But if it came to an arms race the US could field 1000's in the same time Russia fields 100.

The one redeeming point is that stored US weapons would need reconditioning, and that takes time, this is why the one year time frame.

Without some form of agreement Russia loses a nuclear arms race.

Posted by: les7 | Oct 25 2020 23:31 utc | 77

"Shares of gun makers gain as Biden's lead grows"> - Channel New Asia"

Oh, I can guarantee you that. The only thing stopping gun sales from surging will be a shortage. Serious firearm owners are one-issue voters and they will *all* vote for Trump. Every firearm magazine and Web site out there loves Trump and hates Biden with a passion.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 25 2020 20:18 utc | 55

Still at his bullshit after I shut him down in the previous thread on this topic. Probably the biggest Covidiot still remaining on this site.

For the equally retarded, remember that lockdowns only work when they are accompanied by massive testing, tracing, and isolation of exposed persons - none of which the US implemented - and is still not implementing - unlike most of the Asian nations and a couple Western ones.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 25 2020 23:41 utc | 78

From two sources:

"Trump will immediately fire 'FBI Director Christopher Wray, CIA Director Gina Haspel, Defense Secretary Mark Esper AND a long line of senior officials' if he wins the White House"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8878305/Trump-plans-fire-heads-FBI-CIA-Pentagon-wins-election.html

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-immediately-fire-fbi-cia-directors-if-reelected

Announcing it now sounds like a good way to get JFK'd imo.

Posted by: gm | Oct 26 2020 0:15 utc | 79

I came across the FT article linked to below a few days ago and haven't made the time to use it in a comment until now. After the link, read the quote from it and my associated remarks

MMT: The case against Modern Monetary Theory

The take away quote
"

....Imagine too, as MMT proponents suggest, that control of the printing press is taken away from unelected central bankers and given to “accountable” elected fiscal representatives. Would we be any better off?

Far from it. Giving elected representatives the keys to the printing press is the equivalent of giving a gambling addict the keys to the casino. For many politicians, the primary objective is to remain in power. As such, they will too often be incentivised to pursue instant gratification at the expense of longer-term stability.
"

The good thing is that the unelected central bankers are being called out for what they are and the choice of public/private finance is being broached in a public forum.

The bad thing is that the author uses as the example of public finance the early-1970s UK “Barber boom” instead of the elephant in the room.....China.....sad

Its a start for me that the sides of the civilization war that I have been writing about are being discussed starkly in public forums, albeit negatively.

And "unelected central bankers" = the global private finance cult, IMO and writing

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 26 2020 0:16 utc | 80

Norwegian @ 50, 54, Psychohistorian @ 51:

Putin is possibly distancing himself from being drawn into the US Presidential campaign by Trump.

What Burisma Holdings may have done in getting Hunter Biden on its Board of Directors in the past, and hoping to get his experience and skill as a lobbyist in Washington DC, may have been legal in both Ukraine and the US, irrespective of whether it was the ethical thing to do. If it was legal, then it was not criminal. Same might be said of the Chinese energy company with which Hunter Biden had business contacts: the company was interested in what he could do for it in Washington DC as a lobbyist. Putin can't really comment on what Burisma Holdings and Hunter Biden have done as what happens in Ukraine is the business of the Ukrainian government to regulate.

The issue with Yuri Luzhkov's widow Elena Baturina making wire payments in the millions of US dollars to Biden probably falls into the same category of legality as do Burisma Holdings and the Chinese energy company's attempts to hire Hunter Biden and the huge amounts of money they paid to him. What Biden passed to them and what he got, if he passed on information or advice that did not break national security laws and if the money paid him was agreed on in advance, then the burden of proof that a crime or crimes were still committed falls onto those who make that accusation.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 26 2020 1:07 utc | 81

les7 @ 77

Simple number of warheads doesn't equals linear strength. Means of effective delivery are crucial. Russia, even with 1/10th on number of warheads have enough to irradiate whole planet, let alone US only. It is The idea of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) doctrine - even if enemy eliminates 90% of your nuke arsenal in first strike, the 10% you have left is assured to be enough to nuke them back 100%. That is why 10x overkill in numbers IS the A in MAD.

So, US can have more warheads on old delivery systems as much as it wants. Russia has much more advanced and effective delivery systems. Balance is still there.

Posted by: Abe | Oct 26 2020 1:17 utc | 82

@82

My cooconcernd the possibility of a renewed nuclear arms race. The ability to reprocess reactor fuel or old warheads is the limiting factor... especially when the US is looking at the pre-emptive use of tactical and programmable yield weapons.

As I noted elsewhere, this could be why China lifted their moratorium on reactor construction when the US withdrew from the START negotiations. Th Chinese have since pushed forward the testing and operation of the Hualong One reactor, which produces plutonium, instead of waiting for the joint Russian Chinese reactor, a hybrid fast breeder design, which does not produce weaponizable byproducts.

Posted by: Les7 | Oct 26 2020 1:50 utc | 83

@ Abe #82
US can have more warheads on old delivery systems as much as it wants. Russia has much more advanced and effective delivery systems.
Absolutely. Russia (and maybe China) has hypersonic delivery systems, over 5X the speed of sound. The US has no defense against them. None.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 26 2020 2:22 utc | 84

gm | Oct 26 2020 0:15 utc | 79

IMO,...So Trump says he will "fire" fbi=Wray, cia-Haspel, etc.if he is re-elected. But Wray, Haspel, etc. are either Senior Executive Service or Civil Service categories...the President has not the singular authority to "fire" them from government service.

Both SES and CS gov employees can only be removed from gov payrolls by SES-board due-process or CS-board hearings after SES or CS brings appropriate charges. Pres can perhaps force their removal from a particular job or office, but not from gov employment/payroll.

If-you-re-elect-me-I'll-fire-them is just more elite-speaking bamboozle [hat tip to Malcolm X] .

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 26 2020 2:52 utc | 85

@ ct #85
Trump fired James Comey (FBI) and he could fire Christopher Wray and Gina Haspel.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 26 2020 3:08 utc | 86

why wait until the election? More BS from trump the scammer.

Whats really sad the the Trumpeteers, who eagerly eat whatever he says.
Hey, trumpteers, he really did "lock her up", right?

Posted by: Hoyeru | Oct 26 2020 3:14 utc | 87

The Art of the Deal? The US trade deficit in goods has never been higher. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 26 2020 3:20 utc | 88

P.S. to my #85///

10 cents says Trump knows nothing of SES, nor do most readers here.

I was once CS and only learned existence of SES abt 5 years ago...it's a bypass of any Presidential-appointed actually running a gov department/agency authority. SES mostly operates an the level of managing the day-to-day affairs of an agency/department, whose Pres-appointed head [w Senate advise & consenr] usually ends wwith each newly-elected Pres.


SES came into law 1979, oh-so-quietly, under Pres. Carter and expanded wildly under afterwards..

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 26 2020 3:21 utc | 89

So we agreed on this:
1) Lockdowns *do not* stop COVID. They may or may not have some benefit in reducing deaths short term - but the jury is still out on long term. Without mass vaccinations, all that happens is "flattening the curve" but the area under the curve (i.e. people sick and dying) isn't going to reduce.
2) What is the health impact of the lockdowns? As noted before: suicides, murders and overdoses are all way up. The absolute numbers aren't that high but the people dying of these causes are far, far younger.

C1ue @ 55. <= wonder if those who test positive are subsequently murdered to make the number quotas?

C1ue @ 58 question who were traders that exchanged horses for slaves. <= I am told but c/n find a qualified reference to support the information, that the Jews in Salonika <(the Ottoman city at the top of the Mediterranean sea, where the decadents of the same Jews who were forced from Portugal in 1492 and Spain in 1501 settled; apparently they purchased the horses from Hungry, Poland and Russia..Switzerland and Sweden, Norway. and traded them in African for slaves that were sent to do the work in the foreign colonies of Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, . (check on the British East and West Indies corporation history for more)

Posted by: snake | Oct 26 2020 3:39 utc | 90

Jen @ 81
I doubt if Burisma hired Hunter for experience, it sounds like they hired him for cover and access to the VP. Legal and normal it is but he should have at least registered as a lobbyist.

I think the criminal part would come in if he was shoveling money to Joe. The emails seem to intimate that Joe was getting kickbacks and two whistle blowers that worked in the operation are saying Joe was getting kickbacks. That part is SOP but very illegal. For a burden of proof an investigation and a trial would be in order if the facts support. Two credible witnesses they have. No chance of that happening.

One email states the 3 million in Russian money was only part of 100 million funneled through the Moscow mayor channel. Putin was visibly irritated when asked the question about the money and that is very out of character for him.

One wonders how that new prosecutor is getting along cleaning up all that corruption in the Ukraine? Probably just a shuffling of deckchairs and business as usual. If Joe has just kept his mouth shut this mostly would have slipped by unnoticed.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 26 2020 4:29 utc | 91

Julian Assange- US Military Involved in 108,000+ Deaths in Iraq! (10 Years Since The Iraq War Logs):

https://toranja-mecanica.blogspot.com/2020/10/julian-assange-us-military-involved-in.html

Posted by: ARIES | Oct 26 2020 4:39 utc | 92

How San Francisco became a COVID-19 success story as other cities stumbled


Now life has returned. Restaurants and stores are open. Clad in masks, pedestrians last week clutched bags from stores where they had just shopped. Diners sat at tables outside restaurants and cafes. People strolled along the bay on the Embarcadero, and a huge Ferris wheel opened for business at Golden Gate Park.

After cautiously approaching the pandemic for months, with a go-slow attitude toward reopening, San Francisco has become the first urban center in California to enter the least restrictive tier for reopening. Risk of infection, according to the state’s color-coded tiers, is considered minimal, even though San Francisco is the second-densest city in the country after New York...

San Francisco followed the “hammer and dance” approach, made famous by San Francisco author Tomas Pueyo on the website Medium, Wachter said. The city hit the hammer by shutting down early in the pandemic. The dance has been more complicated. The city has reopened slowly, making adjustments when cases rose and backtracking when necessary...

Of the 20 most populous cities in the U.S., San Francisco has the lowest death rate per capita from COVID-19. If the entire country had followed the city’s approach, Wachter said, there would be 50,000 dead from the pandemic instead of more than 220,000.

And it was Tomas Pueyo's articles on Medium referenced here by b that prompted me to take the pandemic seriously.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 26 2020 4:49 utc | 93

From Twitter...

Carlos Menchaca 萬齊家 @NYCCouncil38
On the first day of early voting in Red Hook, @NYPD76Pct officers confronted community activists handing out PPE in front of an early polling site & then seized it. This is unacceptable, the NYPD must issue clear guidelines & not escalate situations at the polls.

Apparently NYC cops, who are probably all Trump supporters, saw handing out masks as a "political assembly".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 26 2020 4:56 utc | 94

Circumspect @ 91:

I would think Joe Biden getting kickbacks from his son would be something we'd expect Putin not to be aware of, especially if the money is being laundered through third party accounts in Delaware or some other taxation jurisdiction such as the proverbial Caymans or the US Virgin Islands.

I don't wonder that Putin was irritated by Trump's insinuation that he (Putin) was personally involved in the transfer of US$3.5 million to Rosemont Seneca Thornton through former Moscow mayor Yuri Luzhkov who was said to have funnelled millions' worth of construction projects to firms owned by his widow Elena Baturina-Luzhkova. In the first place, that is suggesting that Putin has a hand in every major multi-billion-dollar business transaction in Russia, or gets a kickback from such. Secondly, just because Putin may have met Baturina-Luzhkova and attended her husband's funeral does not mean the two are close. It would be strange if as a public figure, Putin had not attended Luzhkov's funeral (a state funeral, it seems) given that Luzhkov had been mayor of Moscow. Third, the firm Hunter Biden co-founded may be called Rosemont Seneca Partners but evidence that it is the same firm as Rosemont Seneca Thornton is scant.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 26 2020 5:01 utc | 95

Oh, man, you couldn't make this stuff up...A Sacha Baron Cohen prank blows up the Internet...

Giuliani Shown in Hotel Bedroom Scene in New ‘Borat’ Film
Rudy Giuliani is shown in a compromising position in a hotel room with a young woman acting as a television journalist in a scene in Sacha Baron Cohen’s latest mockumentary.


Giuliani then asks for her phone number and address. He lies back on the bed to tuck in his shirt after she helps remove his recording equipment, and he has his hands in his pants when Baron Cohen rushes in wearing an outlandish outfit.

Baron Cohen, who was disguised as part of the crew, screams that the young woman is 15 years old. Up to that point, there is no indication she is underage. The character, who is Borat’s daughter, is played by Maria Bakalova, who is listed as 24 years old on the Internet Movie Database site, IMDb.com.

Speaking on his weekly radio program on WABC, Giuliani called the scene “a hit job.”

“I am tucking my shirt in, I assure you, that’s all that I was doing,” he said. He said he realized he was being set up when the woman asked whether he wanted a massage.

“At no time before, during, or after the interview was I ever inappropriate,” Giuliani tweeted. “If Sacha Baron Cohen implies otherwise, he is a stone-cold liar.”

The former New York City mayor called police after that encounter, but there is no indication an investigation was launched. Giuliani spoke to the New York Post’s Page Six column about the encounter in July but did not mention the bedroom aspect.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 26 2020 5:05 utc | 96

Don Bacon | Oct 26 2020 3:08 utc | 86

And who would know what Comey's true status is. SES? CS? CIA? Still on USG lines? On pension with NO gov status? No covert USG status, about which it is in many cases perfectly legal to lie? Maybe voluntarily quit? Who would actually know the "whole truth"?

Note that when a USG "spokesman" answers a question, how would s/he know anything except what he was told to answer?! I.e., he is not a source, just a "spokesman" for a source. That is why there are such positions known as "spokesman"...they are buffers to protect principals. It is there prime raison d'etre [reason for existing in the 1st place].

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 26 2020 5:40 utc | 97

@Richard Steven Hack | Oct 26 2020 5:05 utc | 96
That was last week. You are our of touch.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 26 2020 6:01 utc | 98

Norwegian you sure are tuned into American life, entertainment and politics. I'm here in Spain and I just heard about the SBC Giuliani thing on Friday or Saturday, so yah - "last week" - are you really in Norway or just some Trump fanboi posting from Iowa? Besides, what difference does it make if a thing was "last week" if it hadn't been discussed here yet?

Two more things for everyone else.

1) Yasha Levine's take on the Hunter Biden Ukraine non-issue (since corruption is legal now anyway and the West has been screwing with Ukraine and every former Soviet republic since God knows when) https://yasha.substack.com/p/yes-hunter-biden-is-corrupt-its-one? (Rudy also has his own "goings on" in the Ukraine)

2) I've now seen debates, town halls, 60 minutes interviews, all after the fact - but NONE of them addressed the ongoing, bi-partisan (Republican favored tho) War on (some) Drugs. Why can't someone ask either Trump or Biden what their actual plan is given that numerous states have already legalized recreational marijuana but are still frozen out of the banking system (not that this is a bad thing assuming they let there be an alternative in the West)?

I want to hear from Trump his thoughts on medical or recreational MJ. Same from Biden. No more bullshit about their past statements or records. Some are STILL undecided!

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 26 2020 6:09 utc | 99

The result of the Armenian and Azerbaijani Fms meeting in the US is another humanitarian truce in Nagorno-Karabakh . Looks like the Minsk Group Co-Chairs are standing firmly together and insisting that both sides take immediate steps to comply with the previous commitments made in Moscow earlier this month.
The Minsk Group co-chairs will meet later this week in Geneva to follow up.

I have not found any details as to what was agree. If anyone has, I’d be interested to read them.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 26 2020 6:30 utc | 100

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