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October 22, 2020

Open Thread 2020-84

News & views ...

Posted by b on October 22, 2020 at 17:04 UTC | Permalink

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Many factors contributed to what happened in bolivia:
- MAS party is a well organized grass roots operation. It's been modeled after Cuba and Venezuela parties. Its the most powerful organization in bolivia by far
- opposition to MAS in bolivia is a joke of disorganized selfish groups of ppl. They never went out of the cities to talk to campesinos who are the majority in bolivia. They basically ignored the majority.
- Anez government let economy meltdown and abused MAS supporters psychologically and physically.
- bolivia election system is surprisingly a well oiled machine. It performed spectacularly.
- lastly, over 60% of bolivia are indigenous. They were given a choice between a racist government and the MAS. It was an easy choice

Posted by: comandante | Oct 23 2020 12:38 utc | 101

In his mind, even when he is spectacularly wrong (with a purpose), it was an error that nobody could have forseen and everybody else was wrong as well - even those who were right:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/22/economists-globalization-trade-paul-krugman-china/

Definition of a useful, high educated, well spoke, bearded idiot - in the Gartman mould.

Posted by: jared | Oct 23 2020 12:59 utc | 102

Thanks for karlof1's tip, here is some excerpts from Xi's speech at 70th anniversary of Korean War commemoration at ChinaDaily.

These are a few "interesting" points:
- It is necessary to speak to invaders in the language they know: that is, a war must be fought to deter invasion, and violence must be met by violence.
- A victory is needed to win peace and respect.
- The Chinese nation will never cower before threats, or be subdued by suppression.

This may be for Taiwan and its boss:
- China will never allow its national sovereignty, security and development interests to be undermined. China will never allow any forces to violate or separate its sacred territory.

Sorry that I couldn't find the full text though.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 23 2020 13:13 utc | 103

Syria

"As the country tries to overcome aggression and sanctions from the U.S. and the European Union, the government plans to create more homes and announces that 11 new artisanal zones were established in Tartous, Quneitra, Homs, and Hama provinces. Also, with China's support is has imported transportation, including buses and 708 vehicles for the cleaning sector."


Syria: Six Million Displaced People Have Returned Home

Posted by: arby | Oct 23 2020 13:34 utc | 104

@ arby

Great news!

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 13:43 utc | 105

Looks maybe like the Bolivians have inspired the Ecuadoreans---

Ecuadorians Remember 'Rebellious October' With New Protests

Posted by: arby | Oct 23 2020 13:51 utc | 106

NY Post with excerpts from Xi's speech:

China’s President Xi takes jabs at US in Korean War commemoration

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 23 2020 13:56 utc | 107

@ the passimist 89
That directly contradicts various statements of the Russian government according to wich Navalny hadn't been poisoned at all but suffers from some unknown medical conditions.

The key to understanding what really happened to Navalny are really the Russian government statements since it can be ruled out at 100% probability that they are part of a plot by the German government.

Posted by: m | Oct 23 2020 14:15 utc | 108

"...how do you teach courage? How do you teach sacrifice for others? How do you teach cooperation and commitment? "
Posted by: migueljose | Oct 23 2020 0:50 utc | 45

Experience is the best teacher. A hard and cruel teacher, but lessons are begining to be learned. And you are correct,miguel; you have given us four new freedoms, and the first one to practise is courage.

We are entering the age of experience.

Posted by: juliania | Oct 23 2020 14:43 utc | 109

Trump’s H-1B immigrant visa reforms will make America poorer

To prevent businesses from undercutting wages, the government will also require employers to increase the salaries of H-1B visa holders. The highest-skilled immigrants will have to be paid at the 95th percentile of the prevailing wage for their occupations, up from the 67th percentile under current rules.

[...]

The most important point is the simplest: The strongest possible U.S. economic recovery requires more talent drawn from the rest of the world, not less. A smart immigration system would recognize this fact, and in that way advance the interests of all Americans.

Yeah, fuck the rest of the world, fuck the immigrants. The Empire must be kept at all cost.

Posted by: vk | Oct 23 2020 14:52 utc | 110

@Hoyeru #69
I can't say that I have experienced the same thing regarding lines in South/Central America as you - but my experience in that region is mostly Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Panama (and the Caribbean).
Your experience in California is more to do with the localized ones than the actual original culture - is my guess.
As for China: There is no comparison between American capabilities and Chinese capabilities.
The American agencies record lots of data but have little to no direct intervention capability.
China's Great Firewall, in contrast, employs literally hundreds of thousands of people. China can (and does) intercept a picture in transit and white it out of a WeChat message. China also literally monitors and blocks any and every site it dislikes coming into the country.
The actions by Google, Twitter and Facebook are moderate by comparison. American methods rely rather on the bullhorn (MSM) and co-option of the journalist class and companies via selective promotion.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 14:54 utc | 111

@Richard Steven Hack #81
An insult from you, I take as a compliment.
The one thing I can rely on your posts is ignorance.
Even a cursory examination of the life expectancy of seriously ill people - for example, in nursing homes - shows that they die, on average, in 6 months. We've been under COVID-19 lockdown for ... more than 6 months.
Furthermore, had you pulled your head out of another anatomical region, you would have noticed that overall US mortality in the CNN report was 20% above normal but COVID-19 is only 2/3rds of the excess deaths?
The normal logical person's conclusion is that there are other factors going on.
The facts are: drug overdoses are up. Suicides are up. Shootings and killings/murders are up.
So thank you for your utterly meaningless and worthless label - I don't care, nor does anyone else with half a brain.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 15:02 utc | 112

m@89 I got a rather detailed explanation from a Russian friend who just spent several weeks there. Navalny started out as an anti corruption reformer but got involved with partners that figured out how to monetize the dirt he was digging up. This is over a period of years, not something recent. There is no conspiracy between the Russian government and the Germans. Navalny was not a threat to governmental power in Russia - this was strictly a business matter. See the RT article I linked to:

https://www.rt.com/russia/504238-berlin-dominates-europe-moscow/

and the Russian government is not happy about how the case was used by the Germans for their own ends.

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 23 2020 15:04 utc | 113

Posted by: vk | Oct 23 2020 14:52 utc | 109

"The strongest possible U.S. economic recovery requires more talent drawn from the rest of the world, not less.

It's a lie too, the strongest possible US economy will organically out of the strongest possible development is Uncle Sugar's human capital, which "we" have been assiduously working to suppress for these last many decades now. You want to know why we fell behind, that is why, all these billionaires with their love of cheap labor.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 23 2020 15:04 utc | 114

Which are the dumbest false flags of recent memory?

My selections are:

#1) Journalist Arkady Babchenko - he gets every prize!
He faked his death, complete with blood soaked pictures,
and then showed up the next day alive at a news conference.
They should name a drink after him, "Noah's Ark Ark Ark"- glacier water mixed
with glacier water, stirred not shaken.

#2) Saudi Intelligence Service - they air shipped printers
with incomplete bombs in them to the US and Britain from Yemen.
The Saudi agents revealed that they kept the tracking slips of the bombs!
I'll drink to that. And the Saudis played heroes by providing the tracking
numbers to the US and Britain in the nick of time. And I'll drink to that!

#3) Just this week CrowdStrike (yes, they still enjoy "credibility" in some circles)
let us know that Iranian hackers included a video with their email threats.
And that clever video:
"The video showed the hackers' computer screen as they typed in commands to purportedly hack a voter registration system.
Investigators noticed snippets of revealing computer code, including file paths, file names and an internet protocol (IP) address."
How does the Saudi Intelligence service say, "Skol!"?

Posted by: librul | Oct 23 2020 15:06 utc | 115

@Yeah, Right #95
Let me be clear: I think COVID is a serious disease. I think it is worse than flu - about 10x worse.
However, the above 2 statements do not also mean that I fail to recognize that some significant number of COVID deaths would have occurred anyway. The average life expectancy in a nursing home is 6 months - we are already into the 7th month of lockdowns in California.
Murders/shootings are up. Suicides are up. Overdose deaths are up. The people dying from these 3 causes tend to have far, far greater life expectancies than those in nursing homes.
So my question for you is: are you certain that the life expectancy saved by lockdowns, particularly now, is greater than the life expectancy lost due to increased murder, suicide, overdose and ginormous economic dislocation?
That's the ultimate question, in my view.
Note again that I don't disagree with the lockdowns in March/April - we didn't know much then and there was much uncertainty.
However, even death rates for those hospitalized with COVID - which were in the 50% range in March, averaged 25.6% through August, are now down to 7.6%.
Every policy has consequences beyond the first order target.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 15:07 utc | 116

To Kadath | Oct 23 2020 2:18 utc | 56:

I agree with your assessment. Trump did terribly on wind power, but Biden was awful on North Korea, reminding us of the insulting manner in which the Obama administration conducted its 'diplomacy'. Both defended fracking as if it were the best thing since sliced bread, and oh dear no, not medicare for all...socialism, aargh! So, Canada is a communist country?

Posted by: juliania | Oct 23 2020 15:08 utc | 117

@snake #90
BCG is named for Albert Calmette and Camille Guérin. Wiki has an excellent writeup about it.

What is interesting is that there is research showing the BCG seems to have positive effects beyond its target: tuberculosis. In particular, it seems to reduce mortality from all causes, in all sorts of socio-economic conditions. A study in Guinea-Bissau saw children with BCG experience 50% reduced mortality from all causes, for example.
Bladder cancer is another example.
Some scientists speculate that this is occurring because BCG is "priming" the immune system beyond just tuberculosis; this is plausible because BCG is actually a genetically different bacillus - grown in potatoes. Kind of like cowpox and smallpox but a much more radical host difference (cows/humans are both mammals; potatoes and people are different phyla).
Hard to say, yet, if this is a valid view outside of bladder cancer (where it has been shown to help).

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 15:17 utc | 118

@jared #102
Except that there were lots of credible people specifically speaking to the consequences of free trade - like Ross Perot running for President in 1992 and 1996 on specifically a platform concerned about the consequences of said free trade.
Krugman is known primarily for being prolific on social media and his NYT column - the literal definition of the bullhorn attached to a bullshit artist.
I've considered him a dumbass since at least 2001.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 15:20 utc | 119

@vk #110
You do realize that H1B is literal indentured servitude, right?
And that its purpose is nothing more than cheap(er) labor for the tech companies?
I know many people on H1B, as well as several people who specialize in H1B "hiring".
The good news: many of these people are smart and capable.
The bad news: they're stuck at the companies they start at for 7 years or more - and are paid significantly (20% to 50%) under "market". If they leave, their green card process starts anew even assuming they find another H1B sponsor.
More bad news: there are also a significant number of "body shops" who do nothing but enter the lottery for H1B visas, then auction off the "wins" to the tech companies. The H1B people in these situations are far worse off because they work for the "body shop", not the tech company.
Most importantly: H1B, even at its peak, brought in less than 200K people (188K by law).
In comparison: in 2017 - legal immigration was
Family and Immediate Relatives: 748,746
Employment: 137,855
Refugees and Asylees: 146,003
Diversity and Other: 94,563
Total Visas Issued: 1,127,167
Over 1.1 million people came in legally without the H1B.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 15:31 utc | 120

Time To Mute The President. Former Twitter and Google Executive Calls For Trump To Be Banned From Social Media Until After The Election.

Jonathan Turley. https://tinyurl.com/yybpol6g

The ‘most powerful man’ in the World, the story is, the Prez. of the USA, should be banned from popular social platforms. Not the Onion or what ?!

The challenger is? The winner might be...?

The challenger is the GAFAM (1), the nexus of control of communication power. The mere existence of the public defiance (censorship real + threatened for future) makes them winners.

Trump doesn’t control large Media Corps. The MSM has thrown in its lot with ‘Dems’ since a long time (dates ..?), via funding, deals, corruption, etc.

Media types are by nature part of the credentialised class, totally removed from primary production, essential services, aka the ‘deplorables’ the low paid workers; plus ignorant of the top tiers of ressource management (e.g. Oil Cos., fracking, electrics, phys. com. networks, chip production, Mega-Agri, even airplane industry, etc.) They are the superficial froth on the top of the cake and like to ignore and debase the cake.. which btw ensures their lives and comfort. By nature, indoctrination and necessity, they focus on control of information, narrative, propaganda, the shaping tool(s), which are under their hands, their self-image as controllers and ‘shapers’ is all they have — until the SHTF.

1. GAFAM = google apple facebook amazon microsoft. In Europe, often GAFA minus microsoft.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 23 2020 15:58 utc | 121

Noirette | Oct 23 2020 15:58 utc | 121

"GAFAM = google apple facebook amazon microsoft. In Europe, often GAFA minus microsoft."

GOG and MAGOG would encompass those written names except Facebook (and Twitter).

Posted by: Russ | Oct 23 2020 16:27 utc | 122

Russ @76

Thank you for a common sense reply to an insane suggestion. Some people cannot resist the idea of forcing others to do what they don't want to do. Lately such people appear to all be on the Left.

Personally I'm waiting for Bruce Willis to take on Covid 19 singlehandedly and defeat the bad virus once and for all. Then after, Terry Gilliam could make a movie about it.

Posted by: EoinW | Oct 23 2020 16:29 utc | 123

Bemildred @114--

Seems a few missed the words Putin spoke that I highlighted so those reading them could learn something. Alas, horses can be led to water....

LuRenJia @103--

I haven't found a transcript yet either. It's clear that Xi used the anniversary to send a message--We beat you when we were at our weakest, and we'll have no problem now that we're much stronger. Also, the message to his fellows: We're involved in what is essentially war with the Outlaw US Empire and need to once again combine our efforts, work tirelessly, and overcome the adversity placed before us. That's what I get from several items this morning, "China sends stern warning via commemoration of war it won against the US 70 years ago in Korea"; "Xinhua Headlines-Xi Focus: 70 years after milestone war, Xi urges pooling strength for national rejuvenation"; "Commentary: War commemoration a timely warning to anti-China "paper tigers"; and "China loves peace, but don’t provoke it: Global Times editorial".

I rather doubt any of the higher ups within the Outlaw US Empire's governing structure will read any of those items, and few will even know Xi gave an important speech directed at them. Escobar's column today points to such arrogant ignorance as being part of the USA's founding persona--a very uncomfortable truth few US citizens would want to admit. Do read it when it emerges from behind the paywall sometime later today. It's interesting to put Xi's and Putin's messages side-to-side and read them as one. I don't think there's anyone within the Duopoly that could craft an intelligent reply; and if tried, they'd only end up with their own pie in their face.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 16:39 utc | 124

Tannhouser @2

Welcome to Gotterdammerung!

Thanks for posting that. It's provocative, if nothing else. Great for an open discussion.

Though the wish list seems plausible, the thought that crossed my mind is: "is any government competent enough to pull any of this off"? Perhaps the Chinese Communist Party, however the CCP is the most anti-freedom political party on the planet. The only people admiring it are either members of the party or they do not have to live under CCP rule. Seeing we're talking about the Canadian Liberal Party, whose specialty is corruption, I have little fear of them successfully prosecuting any complex plan.

ID @7

Even if the article is pure fiction, it is still relevant, therefore has value. Case in point the independent MPP who accused the government of building interment camps. Even if totally wrong, he did the public good by forcing the government to state publicly that they were not building such camps. Sure politicians can still lie, however by making the issue public makes it more difficult for them to do so.

I wish someone would accuse the government of planning mandatory vaccines. So far the only western leader with the decency to state he will NOT force citizens to be vaccinated is Donald Trump.

Posted by: EoinW | Oct 23 2020 16:44 utc | 125

Russ 122, yes. Heh, good parallell (sp?)

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 23 2020 16:45 utc | 126

@ russ - GAFAM... thanks for explaining that abbreviation..

Posted by: james | Oct 23 2020 16:45 utc | 127

i guess it was noirette.. thanks noirette.. can't skim posts, lol..

Posted by: james | Oct 23 2020 16:46 utc | 128

@74 Paco and @78 Russ, i.e....two birds with one stone

You forgot the disclaimer: According to the Russian-edited version of the debate Trump won the debate.

While 53% of Americans believe Biden won and 39% for Trump.

So I was right earlier: Biden B- Trump D

And since Russians don't get a say....oh, wait...

Posted by: Circe | Oct 23 2020 16:52 utc | 129

giving russia a say is like giving circe a say, lol.... it is all lopsided!

Posted by: james | Oct 23 2020 17:00 utc | 130

Latest from the cow boys: the US have forced the temporary authorities of Sudan to accept a normalization with Israel in exchange of removing them from the list of states who support terrorism. No matter that these authorities have been put in place temporarily by the people who demonstrated for a year and that the temporary constitution then signed excludes the possibility of signing such deals. No problem either with the fact this government is not the one against whom the sanctions were taken.
A few days ago, the US was asking Sudan to pay a fine of 335 million dollars for their hosting people who had organized attacks against them.
Sickening.

Posted by: Mina | Oct 23 2020 17:04 utc | 131

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 16:39 utc | 124

"...It's interesting to put Xi's and Putin's messages side-to-side and read them as one..."

My impression from statements I've read from Putin and Xi (just a sampling over the last 5 or so years - nothing in depth like karlof1's professional approach) is that they are closely aligned. People who think the criminal anglo led west will prevail have Biden brain function.

Posted by: tucenz | Oct 23 2020 17:07 utc | 132

EoinW | Oct 23 2020 16:29 utc | 123

"Personally I'm waiting for Bruce Willis to take on Covid 19 singlehandedly and defeat the bad virus once and for all. Then after, Terry Gilliam could make a movie about it."

Wasn't there a movie about making a bunch of lunatics think they actually were playing roles in a movie so that when it was shouted "Cut! That's a wrap!", they'd all forget their lunacy and go home?

If that would only work in real life...

Of course, being a key part of the Propaganda Ministry, Hollywood is fully on board with all the globalist assaults on humanity.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 23 2020 17:09 utc | 133

This article at counterpunch is useful:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/23/data-from-bolivias-election-add-more-evidence-that-oas-fabricated-last-years-fraud-claims/

There is no doubt that Canada and the Liberals played a critical part in justifying the coup in Bolivia and that- for all their mealy mouthed assurances to the contrary- they and the treacherous NDP did not hesitate in the slightest to promote a policy which directly sacrificed the interests and the demands of the indigenous people on the altar of corporate capitalism in a country in which the priests of the cult are unreconstructed fascists.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 23 2020 17:11 utc | 134

The Q & A portion of Putin's Valdai Club Speech transcript have been posted, and they run longer than his speech. In his first query, I completely agree with Putin that too many people have yet to learn the fundamental lesson the pandemic ought to have taught:

"However, the pandemic is playing into our hands when it comes to raising our awareness of the importance of joining forces against severe global crises. Unfortunately, it has not yet taught humanity to come together completely, as we must do in such situations."

But his answer wasn't directed at ignorant citizens. Putin's ire was directed at the Outlaw US Empire:

"I am not referring now to all these sanctions against Russia; forget about that, we will get over it. But many other countries that have suffered and are still suffering from the coronavirus do not even need any help that may come from outside, they just need the restrictions lifted, at least in the humanitarian sphere, I repeat, concerning the supply of medicines, equipment, credit resources, and the exchange of technologies. These are humanitarian things in their purest form. But no, they have not abolished any restrictions, citing some considerations that have nothing to do with the humanitarian component – but at the same time, everyone is talking about humanism.

"I would say we need to be more honest with each other and abandon double standards. I am sure that if people hear me now on the media, they are probably finding it difficult to disagree with what I have just said, difficult to deny it. Deep down in their hearts, in their minds, everyone is probably thinking, 'Yes, right, of course.' However, for political reasons, publicly, they will still say, 'No, we must keep restrictions on Iran, Venezuela, against Assad.' What does Assad even have to do with this when it is ordinary people who suffer? At least, give them medicines, give them technology, at least a small, targeted loan for medicine. No." [My Emphasis]

If I could speak to Putin, I'd tell him that they have no hearts, they are soulless, completely bereft of any sense of morality, and cannot be reasoned with whatsoever. They are ghouls, incapable of being shamed or made to feel guilt. You look at them and see a human, but they're not human at all; they are parasites cloaked in human form. They differ little from the Nazis of 75+ years ago and need to be eliminated once and for all. The pandemic has fully exposed them for what they are.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 17:17 utc | 135

No, mainland China is nothing like the West.
A simple example: in the West - US or Europe - people line up orderly. In China, it is a literal dogfight.
Then there's the entire surveillance thing.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:43 utc | 62

I was in Europe several times, and to my surprise, people behave differently in different places. For example, if you have a red light for pedestrians and no incoming cars, Danes (where I observed) wait for the green, and Norwegians cross the street. I have seen a nice line for tickets in southern Italy that the moment the selling window opened converted to a compact mob. OTOH, southern Italians were orders of magnitude friendlier to hitchhikers than northern Italians.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 23 2020 17:24 utc | 136

@Piotr Berman | Oct 23 2020 17:24 utc | 136

For example, if you have a red light for pedestrians and no incoming cars, Danes (where I observed) wait for the green, and Norwegians cross the street.

LOL, Confirmed! We have common sense. Indeed there are differences.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 23 2020 17:33 utc | 137

Priorly posted on Circe's 'Silly Seasons' thread plus:

Should any here be interested, Wikipedia has aa extensive listing of governmental scandals for the 20th and 21st century administrations. Note the number of executive, legislative and judicial scandals for each administration. Note also the volume of scandals as administrations go from Franklin D. Roosevelt through to D.J. Trump for both executive and legislative branches. The political parties of the malfeasant are of interest as well - trending can be discerned, maybe, for the observant. Starts with FDR's (1933 - 1945) administrations having only 2 scandals but subsequent administrations improved on that record substantially. What will the future bring?

Wikipedia's List of federal political scandals

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Oct 23 2020 17:42 utc | 138

@134 Has anybody seen a comment yet from the Honorable Chrystia Freeland or the Lima Group regarding the election result in Bolivia? Maybe they are too busy strangling Venezuela.

Posted by: dh | Oct 23 2020 17:43 utc | 139

@Yeah, Right94

Shooting unarmed civilians is now routine for some Australian soldiers in Afghanistan. There is a behind closed doors commission of Inquiry by the Inspector-General of the ADF into war crimes right now. Google.

Then there is footage of soldiers discussing another execution murder:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-22/video-shows-sas-soldiers-discussing-apparent-execution/12789520

Perhaps they had to destroy the country in order to 'save' the country. It's time to get out of this war.

Posted by: Paul | Oct 23 2020 18:13 utc | 140

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 17:17 utc | 135

Yes, the question and answer segment was a lot more prolific and one could tell that Putin is way more at ease speaking freely than just reading a statement, I thought he was a bit off balance at the beginning when exposing his message, that changed when asked openly and from journalists all over the world about current world problems. A sharp contrast with the way US politicians keep their discussions within a very restricted framework, with a lot of false assumptions taken for granted, like we are number one, we are the light on the hill, we are democratic, we help countries destroying them, etc etc., That’s why the Biden lapsus of “we liked Hitler” resonated, it is true, Adolf was adored by the elites in the UK and some in the US. Comparing Putin’s participation in the forum and the presidential debate in the US, even though I did not watch it completely except for some highlights, it is like comparing a master class with a primary school lesson, minus the innocence of children.

But the papers of reference just quote the most malicious parts of a three hour talk, like the pun of “do not wait for Russia’s demise, we might get a cold at your burial”, so as to reinforce Putin’s image as the bogey man, the punk that we must get rid of. Let me add to the list of western politicians missing humanity traits the one I think is more obvious, they lack any brains.

Posted by: Paco | Oct 23 2020 18:25 utc | 141

Posted by: Circe | Oct 23 2020 16:52 utc | 129

Dear Circe, I assume by your statement that you did not read Lavrov answer when asked who was his preferred candidate, he mentioned a song by some Slepakov, song that the singer defined as belonging to the patriotic-erotic genre. Listen to it, and somewhere here in the Bar, in some old post you can find the lyrics translated. But to make it brief, they do not give a t*rd who wins, it’s going to be business as usual with anyone of the dotards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y6xUxaqNa4

Posted by: Paco | Oct 23 2020 18:40 utc | 142

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 17:17 utc | 135

If I could speak to Putin, I'd tell him that they have no hearts, they are soulless, completely bereft of any sense of morality, and cannot be reasoned with whatsoever. They are ghouls, incapable of being shamed or made to feel guilt. You look at them and see a human, but they're not human at all; they are parasites cloaked in human form. They differ little from the Nazis of 75+ years ago and need to be eliminated once and for all. The pandemic has fully exposed them for what they are.

Do you seriously believe that Putin and "his regime" don't already know that?

Posted by: tucenz | Oct 23 2020 18:54 utc | 143

Paco @141--

Thanks for your reply! Within today's Strategic Culture Editorial is a reference to a newish book by Ron Ridenour, The Russian Peace Threat: Pentagon on Alert, and how it details the history of Russophobia. Andrei Martyanov posts a review of the book here, and I'll need to add it to my collection. The citation Martyanov supplies from the book IMO proves Russophobia was never about Communism but about Capitalist Imperialism:

"As one of the fathers of American 'realist' (supposedly 'better' than neoconservative) school of thought, Hans Morgenthau stated in 1957:

'I would say, and I have said many times before, that if the czars still reigned in Russia, that if Lenin had died of the measles at an early age, that if Stalin had never been heard of, but the power of the Soviet Union were exactly what it is today, the problem of Russia would be for us by and large what it is today. If the Russian armies stood exactly where they stand today, and if Russian technological development were what it is today, we would be by and large confronted with the same problems which confront us today.'"

That's a very weighty confession, and one I hadn't know about. And that brings up another large part of the problem. Far too few know any of the very important Insider's history, which only a very select group of historical specialists know unless someone like Ridenour, you or myself puts it into a book so that it gets a wider readership that's still too few to make the difference that's required to alter the Culture that's been built upon a Big Lie. If only there were more Truth Seekers instead of Ignorant Partisans!

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 18:58 utc | 144

Posted by: Paul | Oct 23 2020 18:13 utc | 140

Shooting civilians out of hand started with the Americans in Iraq, and influenced other allies, like Australia and UK. Treating the local population like pieces of dirt became the norm. there are lots of videos showing exactly that.

It's a good part of the reason that the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. But it's over now. The US lost. It's only a question now of havering until the conditions are right. But in the end the Taliban will be in power in the south; I'm not up to date about the north.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 23 2020 19:08 utc | 145

tucenz @143--

If I thought they already knew, I wouldn't have bothered. But since Putin and company haven't explicitly said anything of the sort, I must assume they don't know and might welcome my viewpoint. Happily, I don't have to deal with Russia's enemies from their POV. Unfortunately, their enemies are also the Domestic Enemies ruining my nation that I must deal with on a more intimate basis and try to eliminate--a very hard task when so few know reality. Surely you're aware that there are people within the Outlaw US Empire that Love and Agree with the soulless Trump, Biden, and their allies; that they also constitute the Enemy Within?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 19:10 utc | 146

Laguerre @145--

The crime you speak of has existed for thousands of years. At least humanity has progressed to the point where we view such acts of depravity as the crimes they are, but they don't get prosecuted as much as the must.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 19:15 utc | 147

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 19:15 utc | 147

No, I don't agree with that. Normally occupied civilians are not stomped out like vermin, but that was what happened in Iraq, and evidently later in Afghanistan. I have lots of videos on my hard drive from post 2003, which no longer have links, because in that time nobody bothered, but since then have become embarrassing.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 23 2020 19:35 utc | 148

It is rare that anything Karlof1 says needs amending but his last paragraph @ 135 in which he says that politicians of the Outlaw Empire of the US and its satrapies differ little from the Nazis needs correcting: these people ARE Nazis and moreover, in the case of Canada's deputy prime minister Chrystia Freeland, descended from them.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 23 2020 19:50 utc | 149

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 23 2020 19:35 utc | 148

I still remember the video where the US forces drove over an unfortunate woman in the road, and didn't bother to stop to find out out whether she was still alive. That's not normal behaviour.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 23 2020 19:53 utc | 150

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 15:02 utc | 112 overall US mortality in the CNN report was 20% above normal but COVID-19 is only 2/3rds of the excess deaths?

I am quite well aware of that.

"The normal logical person's conclusion is that there are other factors going on."

Which, again, is quite obvious and was discussed in the articles I read.

As to the question of whether those deaths caused by the lockdown or lack of medical care due to the pandemic outweigh the deaths and serious illness caused by the virus itself, no one knows the answer to that and will not until probably years from now when everything has been tallied up - if it ever is. Your presumption that you already know that is bullshit.

But it is irrelevant because the US was unprepared for the pandemic, did not handle it properly once it did occur in comparison to the Asian and some Western states, and the lockdown was the result of that failure - not the pandemic itself. And the excess deaths by other causes are also the result of that failure to provide the necessary mechanisms to test, trace, and isolate - which continue to be failures.

Your original statement remains illogical and an attempt to deny the seriousness of the pandemic, despite your attempts to walk it back.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 23 2020 19:55 utc | 151

Elon Musk will learn the hard way China is not your average Third World nation:

Tesla recalls 30,000 US-made Model S and X vehicles in China, as local challengers chip away at its market share

Dozens of new models were launched this year in China, as electric carmakers from BYD in Shenzhen to Xpeng in Guangzhou compete for the hearts and check books of the nation’s buyers, chipping away at Tesla’s market share.

And there's more coming:

‘China’s system’ to replace American tech in extreme situations: top Chinese engineer

Competition is a bitch, isn't it?

Posted by: vk | Oct 23 2020 20:22 utc | 152

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 23 2020 19:55 utc | 151

According to the French reports I've read, the new crisis is due to a mild variant, where nobody dies, since replaced by a more serious variant where there could be death, but not yet seen in the figures. i.e. you should isolate, nothing else to do.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 23 2020 20:25 utc | 153

Laguerre--

I'm not disagreeing with you, but such behavior by Americans and their armed forces has existed since the Pilgrims and their "sport" of scalping, yet blaming such deeds on their victims. The Love-Hate relationship I have with my nation is the bane of my existence.

Jen @149--

You'll get no argument from me as I've called them Nazis before, just not consistently. I once asked a history prof if the US Gilded Age wasn't a form of Fascism and was told there wasn't enough federal government involvement to fit that description, but that would change later.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 21:31 utc | 154

The Mexican Representative at the OAS, Maximiliano Reyes Zúñiga, has asked for the resignation of Secretary General Luis Almagro for his complicity in promoting the Morales election as fraudulent.

Let's see how many other members will do the same. Let's see how many
Latin American leaders have a spine.

https://venesol.org/2020/10/22/le-mexique-demande-la-demission-de-luis-almagro-a-la-tete-de-loea/

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 23 2020 23:07 utc | 155

@Richard Steven Hack #151
Given that countries in Asia, in Europe and elsewhere are locking down again - the notion that the US was unprepared and exceptional is nonsense.
The reality is that SARS-2-COV is out.
No lockdowns are going to make it go away - in fact, no country has stopped it cold with the possible exception of Sweden.
Nor is there any question whatsoever that lockdowns and the associated economic disruption are directly a cause (if perhaps not the only cause) of said increases in murders, suicides and overdoses.
The question again is: what is the plan going forward?
We already know that it will be at least another year before vaccines are going to be in sufficient quantity and administered to enough people to induce herd immunity - assuming the anti-vaxing doesn't spread.
Note that California has had the full lockdown/economic restrictions - but COVID cases are not tailing off at all.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 23:15 utc | 156

@karlof1, 21:31 Oct 23, 154

It wasn't a sport. The use of scalp hunters to motivate privatised, commercialised campaigns through the issuance of scalp bounties was part of the first American way of war which also included extirpative war making (attack Indian villages and homes, kill Indian women and children, raze Indian fields and destroy food stores and/or kill Indian food sources like buffalo), and the creation of specialised units for Indian fighting(rangers). (see "the First Way of War: American War Making on the Frontier by John Grenier, 2005).

Posted by: cirsium | Oct 23 2020 23:21 utc | 157

@ karlof1

That's interesting to say, can you elaborate more on the scalping matter between the natives and the pilgrims?

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 23:31 utc | 158

@ Lag. 148
Normally occupied civilians are not stomped out like vermin, but that was what happened in Iraq

Recent US wars have not been "normal" they have been a war on terror where anything goes because anyone even suspected of being anti-American could be killed, in Iraq and Afghanistan especially. (Which often morphed into killing just for the fun of it.)

Specifically, these were not countries taken over by a dastardly foreign force, to be liberated by the US. These were regime-change wars (as were the wars on native Americans BTW) with lots of anti-American citizens who wanted the US out of their countries. Soldiers were getting their legs (and other parts) blown off riding around in regular vehicles, so special armored vehicles were required to protect them from insurgents____terrorists____extremists___ (fill in the blanks, anything will do)

Vietnam was an earlier case of this type, which reminds of one of my favorite quotes:
"One day while I was in a bunker in Vietnam, a sniper round went over my head. The person who fired that weapon was not a terrorist, a rebel, an extremist, or a so-called insurgent. The Vietnamese individual who tried to kill me was a citizen of Vietnam, who did not want me in his country. This truth escapes millions." --Mike Hastie, U.S. Army Medic, Vietnam 1970-71

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 23:32 utc | 159

Speaking of Pilgrims & natives, I just finished a fascinating book on pre-Columbus native Americans. "1491, new revelations of the Americas before Columbus" by Charles C. Mann.
from Amazon:

In this groundbreaking work of science, history, and archaeology, Charles C. Mann radically alters our understanding of the Americas before the arrival of Columbus in 1492.
Contrary to what so many Americans learn in school, the pre-Columbian Indians were not sparsely settled in a pristine wilderness; rather, there were huge numbers of Indians who actively molded and influenced the land around them. The astonishing Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan had running water and immaculately clean streets, and was larger than any contemporary European city. Mexican cultures created corn in a specialized breeding process that it has been called man’s first feat of genetic engineering. Indeed, Indians were not living lightly on the land but were landscaping and manipulating their world in ways that we are only now beginning to understand. Challenging and surprising, this a transformative new look at a rich and fascinating world we only thought we knew.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 23:43 utc | 160

Pilgrims again, with Thanksgiving coming up.
--from Smithsonian....
The Myths of the Thanksgiving Story and the Lasting Damage They Imbue . ."Wampanoags today remember the Pilgrims’ entry to their homeland as a day of deep mourning, rather than a moment of giving thanks."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 23:56 utc | 161

First attempt at posting this failed due to the goddamn site filter against VPNs.... Let's try that again...

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 23:15 utc | 156G iven that countries in Asia, in Europe and elsewhere are locking down again - the notion that the US was unprepared and exceptional is nonsense.

That is probably the dumbest thing you've said yet. Not worth responding to.

"No lockdowns are going to make it go away - in fact, no country has stopped it cold with the possible exception of Sweden."

The Sweden nonsense has been both debunked and also explained by the cultural acceptance of restrictions which were requested, not imposed - which is the only difference. Otherwise Sweden did worse than the other countries in its region, as has been established over and over again.

More importantly, you continue to ignore the fact that *lockdowns do not work* UNLESS they are accompanied by adequate testing volume, contact tracing, and isolation of exposed persons. That is because no lockdown can be perfectly applied - even in China. *That* is how it is done. *That* is where the US failed and is continuing to fail. And *that* is why you have to resort to hand-waving to distract everyone from the stupidity of your original comment.

"Nor is there any question whatsoever that lockdowns and the associated economic disruption are directly a cause (if perhaps not the only cause) of said increases in murders, suicides and overdoses."

More hand-waving. Of course, those negative effects occur. Unprepared people react badly. It was the US government's responsibility to deal with the pandemic by short, sharp lockdown and the addition measures I stated above which is how the Asian countries did it. It is the US government's responsibility for those excess deaths not directly attributable to the virus.

And I suspect that is why you don't want to deal with the issue. You have some denial agenda which prohibits you from criticizing the government's response.

"The question again is: what is the plan going forward?"

The plan should be exactly what should have been done in February: a short, sharp lockdown with adequate mass testing, tracing and isolation. There is nothing stopping the US government from doing what it should have done. The results may not be perfect - since, as you correctly say, "the virus is out" - but continued "do nothingness" will only make the situation worse.

We're done here.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 24 2020 0:25 utc | 162

@155 There is a considerable move now to get Almagro out. The Puebla Group certainly wants him gone.

https://www.plenglish.com/index.php?o=rn&id=61055&SEO=puebla-group-requests-luis-almagros-resignation

Still no statement about Bolivia from Justin Trudeau or the Honorable Chrystia Freeland.

Posted by: dh | Oct 24 2020 1:43 utc | 163

Richard Stephen Hack @162

Exactly what part of Sweden nonsense has been debunked? Over the past 30 years between 89,000 and 94,000 Swedes have died annually. As of August 17th, Sweden was on pace for 94,000-95,000 deaths in 2020. Perhaps slightly above the average but not even 6,000 above(they claim to have suffered 6,000 Covid deaths). I'm new at this pandemic stuff but I imagine a deadly virus would mean double or triple the annual death average. Either Sweden has gotten it right - without lockdowns and masks - or the death totals in every country are close to the normal average. Which means the entire pandemic is media/government hype.

Base your opinion on numbers. This is the only way to be objective. Case numbers are not good enough. Pandemics are when excessively large numbers of people die. Even in countries locking down a second time the death totals continue to be a fraction of what they were in the spring. Apparently the media/government believe you can have a pandemic without people dying. And it is death totals over the normal average that matter! Otherwise you merely have the usual number of people dying, which occurs every year.

We can argue endlessly on this subject and both sides will always talk past each other. This is the state of western culture. There's Left and Right and no room for reality or facts. Both sides believe what they want to believe and disregard everything else.

I will conclude with one final point: people who die of Covid 19 have not been murdered by anyone. That's total immature nonsense to blame politicians you don't like for Covid 19 deaths. This is the big difference between the pandemic and lockdowns. The latter commits harm that is man made. It also guarantees the death of our free society. Is that really worth it? Isn't it better to accept that death is a fact of life and be grateful that this pandemic is killing less than 1% of the population? We'd be getting off pretty light if our governments were not destroying the society they were suppose to protect.

Posted by: EoinW | Oct 24 2020 1:49 utc | 164

We might... but the proverbial *they* are definitely not "done". I am experiencing first hand the broad effect of the measures being implemented, it was hard to imagine those "in theory". For months I have been very cautiously lauding the precautionary measures, congratulating myself for living in a country which against some considerable odds tentatively achieved very reasonable results.

It has now become very clear to me how the breath, length and term of these measures go beyond anything that can be found reasonable. I'll avoid bothering barflies with details, the summary is this: you get a flu, the same exact symptoms you may have had in past and the world around you turns upside down, it is simply unbelievable the amount of wasted human and material resources that are triggered once you are triaged to be processed. UNBELIEVABLE. It hits all levels, the state, the company you work for, your colleagues, friends and your own. Akin to a butterfly effect which flaps an hurricane not at its antipode but around itself.

I am observing ~2500 a day currently with a persistent but increasing cumulative of ~44000, adding contacts under suspicion an additional ~57000 in a country of ~10M, ~6M of which are at working age. That is a total of ~100000, 2 weeks ago that number was ~75000, a month ago ~62000. It hits social security coffers like nothing before, it blocks entire departments within companies, delays/kills entire projects, closes down entire companies... If we are lucky to reach a peak in a month we are threatening around 5% of the full workforce being prevented from work by then with all its consequences, a proportion of which lost forever. With a possible 10% affected by the end of the wave. But that is if we're lucky.

If this is the best that this civilization has come up to deal with COVID-19, we've learned nothing, we deserve our fate.

I respect a lot of the barflies here, and specially to those that have apparently made their mind about this and how necessary all of this is: save for a final judgement and please don't let your guard down.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Oct 24 2020 2:13 utc | 165

According to Richard Steven Hack @ 162 The plan should be .. a short, sharp lock down with adequate mass testing, tracing and isolation. <= I instructed my congress person to do as Hack ordered. ..She replied that Article I, Section 7, paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the United States of America provides that every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the president of the USA. If he approve, he shall sign it, but if not, he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it.

Her reply continued: because no bill concerning the matter has passed either house, I advised the President the health of the nation depends on compliance with Hack's Covid 19 order.

Posted by: snake | Oct 24 2020 2:31 utc | 166

Posted by: arby | Oct 22 2020 19:00 utc | 8 -- ""Here are the consequences of the war for the people of Syria."

"It became necessary to destroy Syria to save it for democracy" says the ghastly ghouls of Washington, as they reprise My Lai.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 24 2020 5:19 utc | 167

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 21:22 utc | 25 -- ".... the confidence its citizenry has in its government...."

The Chinese citizenry do not only have CONFIDENCE in their government, but they comfortably give their CONSENT to be governed by the CCP.

In the West, this consent to be governed is weak. The people are disheartened, demoralised, confused, lost, angry, depressed, having seen continual usurpations and betrayals by their "leaders", who serve themselves, not the people.

To me, it is not democracy, not socialism, not any '-ism', but whether the citizenry perceive that their government is serving the people or serving themselves.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 24 2020 5:43 utc | 168

EoinW | Oct 24 2020 1:49 utc | 164

"I will conclude with one final point: people who die of Covid 19 have not been murdered by anyone. That's total immature nonsense to blame politicians you don't like for Covid 19 deaths. This is the big difference between the pandemic and lockdowns. The latter commits harm that is man made. It also guarantees the death of our free society. Is that really worth it? Isn't it better to accept that death is a fact of life and be grateful that this pandemic is killing less than 1% of the population? We'd be getting off pretty light if our governments were not destroying the society they were suppose to protect."

Yes, no one knows enough truth to so grossly violate the ethical commandment, “First Do No Harm”, the way every interventionist always does. 2020 demonstrates the most extreme violence history has ever known perpetrated by those that claim to know enough truth to inflict such violence on every part of human life.

As always the most vulnerable elements - our inner feelings, our self-respect and self-confidence, our personal relationships, our ability to form such relationships in the first place, our attempts to rebuild human community amid such a hostile sociopathic commodified habitat - are the most vulnerable to this totalitarian violence.

This site and most of its commenters, and the great majority of such former "dissident" posers, having morphed overnight from erstwhile "anti-imperialists" to born-again imperialists, are most typical in their new love of the gospel of "humanitarian intervention". That's what was supposed to be happening in Libya or Syria? Burn down the village in order to save it? Forget that - we'll burn to ashes what's left of the very human soul in order to save the husk.

Of course the human body never was in the slightest special danger - it was obvious from early on that covid's actual effects were well within the range of the normal flu's effects. There was a brief spike of excess deaths in the spring and since then it plummeted back to the norm and will not go back up.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

The "pandemic" such as it ever was, has been over since late spring. That's why the cultists have to resort to semantic distortions and misdirections (shrieking about alleged new "cases" where they mean non-symptomatic infections, detected by what's universally known to be an unreliable test, and which numbers if accurate simply reflect the inexorable progress of herd immunity, while fraudulently implying significant numbers of people are dying when this is really not happening anywhere nor will it ever happen) and outright lies, while regressing to the most infantile flat-earthism in parroting over and over, "I believe because it's absurd...I believe because it's absurd..."

I do disagree with this: "people who die of Covid 19 have not been murdered by anyone."

A large majority of the deaths have been among the vulnerable - aged and already sick from usually multiple pre-existing conditions - concentrated in care facilities. We said from the start that these concentrated vulnerable should have been protected while the rest of society continued its prior routine with no changes. The lockdown assaults did the exact radical opposite of what should have been done - all of society was needlessly subjected to totalitarian assault while protecting the vulnerable is the one thing the lockdowns did NOT do.

Since health care personnel continued to traipse in and out of these otherwise segregated facilities with no special decontamination measures being applied, thus predictably infiltrating the virus into these facilities, those in charge of these facilities and the regulations affecting them are guilty at least of mass manslaughter. When we consider how NY's governor Cuomo and others in the US and UK and probably elsewhere deliberately ordered that patients known to be infected be placed in these same "segregated" care facilities, negligence turns into deliberate mass murder.

So the actual brief death spike of spring 2020, to the extent that it does represent bona fide covid-19 deaths, tallies a Nazi-style euthanasia campaign perpetrated by governments, in order to get rid of useless eaters as well as to drum up a death toll which could meet the requirements of the insanely hyperbolic propaganda about a fake "lethal pandemic".

If it wasn't for this massacre in the care facilities, there never would have been any pronounced covid spike at all.

And to conclude by saying again, this massacre in the care facilities was a one-off event. There never will be another significant covid death wave, except of course for the much worse and greater arc of death from the lockdowns themselves, as is borne out by the comparable record of the post-USSR socioeconomic collapse and assault by the same Western neoliberals that now are the impresarios of the terror-lockdown assault that uses covid as a pretext.

https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/10/22/against-the-corona-panic-part-xviii-lessons-from-no-lockdown-belarus-on-the-wuhan-corona-flu-wave-the-total-mortality-impact-is-in-line-with-previous-peak-flu-waves-and-dwarfed-by-effects-of-soviet/

And of course whatever death spike is going to be caused by whatever shoddy profit-seeking "vaccine" is rushed to market and forced upon as many sheeple as possible.

We know the infinite malignity of the government and corporate elites, we know the vileness of the Covid Death Cult, and we know that no level of death and suffering is too much for them.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 24 2020 6:57 utc | 169

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 16:39 utc | 124 -- "It's interesting to put Xi's and Putin's messages side-to-side....

Putin: The US is a great nation, but please leave us alone.

Xi : China loves peace, but don't provoke us, you paper tigers.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 24 2020 7:48 utc | 170

@Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 23:43 utc | 160

Speaking of Pilgrims & natives, I just finished a fascinating book on pre-Columbus native Americans. "1491, new revelations of the Americas before Columbus" by Charles C. Mann.

That kind of topic is indeed extremely interesting. I would like to make 2 comments.

The first comment one is the typical one you might expect from someone like me. Years ago I also read a book about America before Columbus. It is written by the norwegian Kåre Prytz and is called "Vestover før Columbus" (translated: "Westwards before Columbus"). I am going to re-read that book I think.

From memory, the book makes several claims, some of them might be considered speculative (including the claim that Columbus was indeed in North America, however not in 1491 but in 1477 in today's Canada, following information from Ireland). Other interesting revelations in the book is that there was knowledge (stories/maps) in europe about the existence of a continent in the West well before Columbus and well before the vikings.

As we all know the Norseman Leiv Eiriksson is supposed to be the discoverer of America, we have proof of this with the viking settlements in L'Anse aux Meadows at Newfoundland as uncovered in the 1960s by Helge Ingstad. However, the first norseman to observe the amercan continent was not Leiv Eiriksson, but instead Bjarne Herjulfsson in the year 986 when sailing from Iceland to Greenland, he drifted off course and saw the new land west of Greenland as told in "Flatøyboken".

There is much more in that book by Prytz. There is also references to the norse sagas with detailed descriptions of a location that matches the coast otside today's Boston. After all, if the vikings were able to sail from Norway to Iceland, from Iceland to Greenland and from Greenland to Newfoundland, who seriously believe they stopped there?

The second comment is maybe more in line with what your book describe about the Aztecs in Mexico and also the mysterious Olmecs that predate the Aztecs, producing huge basalt stone heads, some with disctinct african-looking features. Clearly, there were advanced societies in america well before the arrival of the europeans.

You can also take the inkas of south america into account, and if you do that you might find they are also predated by some other cultures that seem to be highly developed. In the core of Machu Picchu in Peru you find stone construction that is very different and much more precise than the rest of the place. The Inkas were impressive stone builders, but they built around something more advanced and older than themselves. The same story repeats itself in other places like Ollantaytambo and not to mention Puma Punku across the border to Bolivia. These places seem to have been subject to a "major upheaval" at some point, and much later the Inkas arrived to reclaim/rebuild them.

Then add the existence of something that seems irrelevant to the above: The Carolina Bays, i.e. elliptical depressions in the landscape of the Carolinas in the US. In fact there are hundreds of thousands of these very large (several hundred meters) depressions along the east coast of the US, and they all have common traits. They are mathematical ellipses with very similar eccentricities and with their long axes systematically oriented largely in the same direction. Similar depressions can be found in Nebraska, but now the main axes are rotated.

Antonio Zamora makes an excellent argument in "Mechanism for the creation of the Carolina Bays" that these features are secondary impacts of ice boulders creating conical depressions later relaxed to become elliptical conic sections today known as Carolina Bays. The story goes that about 12800 years ago, Canada and northern US was covered by the 4km thick Laurentide ice sheet and the ice sheet was struck by a comet or asteroid fragment over today's Michigan (Saginaw Bay). The location can be determined by the Nebraska basins/Carolina Bay long axis orientations. The elliptical eccentricities determine the impact angles and therefore also the launch angles and flight times. In short, huge ice boulders bombarded all of today's USA east of the Rockies, wiped out the megafauna and caused the Younger Dryas cold period that lasted 1200 years. It took thousands of years to re-establish civilizations after that, i.e. the Inkas, Olmecs and Aztecs. But in the south we can find signs that these people were not the originals, someone with significant technology was there before them, but all we have is literally carved in stone.

On a personal level, I have a friend from Peru who travelled to Bolivia and Tiwanaku/Puma Punku and showed me his pictures of the very unique "keystone cuts" you can find there and some very few other places in the world. By coincidence, I travelled last year to see Angkor Wat in Cambodia and observed there with my own eyes pretty much identical "keystone cuts" in the foundation of that ancient temple area (the whole area is the size of a modern city...). A straight line between those two locations go right through the globe, they are almost exactly opposite locations on the planet.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 24 2020 8:18 utc | 171

@Russ | Oct 24 2020 6:57 utc | 169
Thank you.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 24 2020 8:22 utc | 172

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 18:58 utc | 144 -- "The citation Martyanov supplies from the book IMO proves Russophobia was never about Communism but about Capitalist Imperialism...."

Ever since their earliest days, the US is all about eating other people's lunches. Today, with only 4% of global population, they demand to consume 40% of global resources. Americans demand 10X their share of global resources, by hook or by crook, but more typically by crooked means.

First they ate the native americans' lunch, then hawaii, mexico (a huge chunk thereof), philippines (for a season, to grow bananas, LOL), korea (that one got stuck in their throats), vietnam (they had to vomit that one out), afghanistan (the poppies are growing well, thank you very much), the middle east (crime in progress), and now..... Russia?!!?!?!?!? and China?!?!?!?!!!

What entitled, arrogant, grubby little snots they are (with apologies to good Americans, educated Americans, truth-speaking Americans, realist Americans, eg. you karlof1).

At the end of GATS (the Great American Toilet Swirling), US living standards just might slip by a huge 90%, but Americans will hardly notice, because the Great Denouement will be gradual. And how will it feel at that point? Just look at NZ where I live now: everything costs more than anywhere in the world, even neighbouring Australia (food, building materials, LED lights, high-techie things, DIY things).... but kiwis do not notice, yet think they are a modern, happening nation. That will be what the US will feel like in future.

Aliexpress, anyone? Made-In-China bullet trains, anyone?

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 24 2020 8:52 utc | 173

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 23:43 utc | 160-- " Challenging and surprising, this a transformative new look at a rich and fascinating world we only thought we knew."

That is politesse for "It is easier to shoot them if we pretend they are uncivilised barbarians living sparsely on the land, without agriculture, without culture, without history, without technology, without humanity, without God... sorta like call them gooks, sand niggers, collateral damage, terminations with extreme prejudice."

No remorse required when democratic, freedom-loving, good guys shoot non-humans..... sorta like shooting zombies.... sorta like shooting dogs.... sorta like shooting Palestinian kids....

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 24 2020 8:57 utc | 174

Let me be devil's advocate on that one.

In all history, nations have called the others barbarians since ever, the greeks with the celts, the romans with the germans, the chinese with the xiongnu/mongolian/manchurian, the japanese with the portugese/westerners...

These accusations only come usually when the so-called barbarians start to eclipse/threaten the civilized, but it's ultimately meaningless because the barbarians usually prevail.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 24 2020 10:01 utc | 175

Don Bacon @ 160:

Based on books and magazine articles I've read in the past, my understanding is that when the Aztecs first established Tenochtitlan on the island in the middle of the lake in the Valley of Mexico (where Mexico City is now located), the island was quite small and the lake fairly large. Over the years though, as Tenochtitlan grew, the Aztecs reclaimed land from the lake through dredging activities and turning the land into chinampas for growing food. Over time, older chinampas would be paved over and used for public forums or temples and new chinampas would be dredged out of the swamplands surrounding the city. So Tenochtitlan was not only larger than any European city of its time when the Spaniards under Hernan Cortes came upon it, it was also one of the largest cities in the world, if not the largest, to be built on artificially made land.

Evidence exists also of a civilisation based around the Mississippi River valley and its tributaries in the eastern United States from 800 CE to 1600 CE (just before European settlement on the Atlantic seaboard), with its staple crops being corn, beans and squash. Its largest city was Cahokia which at its peak in 1100 CE might have had a larger population than London at the time.

Intriguingly there have been discoveries that the Amazon rainforest region in Brazil and floodplain areas near the Brazil-Bolivia border might once have hosted advanced cultures that managed the rainforest, built artificial mounds for growing crops and established fisheries. There is some evidence that pre-Columbian indigenous peoples in Amazonian Brazil built megaliths and other large structures.

Even Aboriginal Australia was host to a sophisticated sedentary culture in southeast Australia, in the territory of the Gunditjmarra people who cultivated eels as a staple food and who created networks of weirs, traps and breeding ponds for eels. They built stone dwellings and had a hierarchical social structure. Eel farming, the structures associated with it and the large-scale changes to the landscape to accommodate this form of aquaculture are thought to go back 6,000 years.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 24 2020 10:30 utc | 176

Smith @ 175:

The Tokugawa shogunate in Japan threw out the Portuguese and ceased all contact with the outside world - apart from the Dutch who were allowed to trade only at Nagasaki - when they realised that Japanese peasant-folk were not only learning how to use guns and buying them, but also learning how to make firearms, and the threat that armed and dangerous peasant masses posed to their rule and to the samurais who were supposed to defend the shogun and the daimyo (the landed gentry).

The Battle of Nagashino in 1575 by rival groups to claim the shogunate was fought with firearms to defeat cavalry using strategies that the film director Akira Kurosawa adopted for his film "Ran" when staging a battle between two rival brothers' armies.

Posted by: Hor, Jennifer | Oct 24 2020 10:48 utc | 177

To me, it is not democracy, not socialism, not any '-ism', but whether the citizenry perceive that their government is serving the people or serving themselves. by: kiwiklown @ 168 <= Think in terms of layers <=who does your government serve? In America, the USA government does not serve those it governs, it serves first the privately owned nation state system franchisees and they serve the global oligarchs who created the nation state system, and who decide generations in advance what is to happen next, and who have the wealth <=to make what they want to happen <=happen.. Beginning in the 1700th technology which enabled complex systems was developing and that it would not be long before the world could be managed and controlled from the top by pushing a few (rule of law ) buttons. The top then divided the people of the world into manageable parts, and implemented a franchise system (the nation state system). They then sold franchises to the most corrupt they could find in each divided area, and the corrupt implemented more and more systems by imposing the rule of law and using force to demand conformance. In this way power from the top was forced into the smallest creature at the bottom.

The nation state was a necessary step in the goal to control behavior from the top by the press of a button.

Clearly it takes banking to enable and energy to drive such a system, so oil and banking became the common denominators that crossed the locally controlled franchisee owned nation state lines. Nearly all systems relied on communications (postal service (an invention of Hill), and phone to Internet), transportation (ships, RRs, and planes) and Education (if could not read, books could not deliver propaganda or train )and those not trained to operate complex machinery were not likely to be part of the profits that engineered machines and orderly systems could make from mixing energy, materials into products and services the system could distribute.

If oil and banking were the systems that supported production and industry, then rule of law and use of force (military) were the brains at the top. The Oligarch franchisors at the top of the global heap have come to understand that rule of law is their most powerful weapon and that surveillance and feedback have advanced to make it possible to manage, by rule of law, behavior at the lowest individual level. Hence the need for the middle man, (the nation state franchisee is disappearing). It is no longer necessary to manipulate the segmented parts, as it is now possible to manage every element in the system (span of control) down te smallest part that has anything to do with behavior.

the Pandemic is a designed experiment. Its purpose is test compliance and to decoy blame for the expected panoply of diseases 5g might deliver as the feedback system is implemented.

________|-------------<= report behavioral response <=.. |
if behavior=target=continue, otherwise =>adjust rule of law and use force

Posted by: snake | Oct 24 2020 10:51 utc | 178

@ Hor, Jennifer

Firearms were well used by japanese during that time, the expulsion of foreigners by the japanese, similar to the chinese and vietnamese at the times were the fact that foreigners, especially christian missionaries start to make trouble against the existing regime/government.

The Shimabara rebellion (infamous due to Makai Tensho) and the Taiping Tian Guo can be used as examples of christian missionaries/theology inciting rebellion, which of course, cannot be tolerated.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 24 2020 11:02 utc | 179

Russ @169

It's the Samantha Powers Syndrome. I remember Powers on PBS, during the Iraq War, as anti-war as anyone. Then the Democrats gained power and she was invited into the government. Next thing, she's helping destroy Libya.

You've correctly pointed out that B & Company are doing precisely the same thing - the pandemic being their Libya Crusade. They are mostly intelligent people, hopefully they come back. Will there be anything to come back to? Then again we've seen no signs that people recover from Trump Derangement Syndrome. Instead they make an easy transition to the Covid Cult. Perhaps these mental viruses mark a breakdown that can't be recovered from. It's always the Left which embraces such insanity. I'll spare you why I think that is. I never thought anyone could make a flag waving redneck look so harmless!

I had President Trump in mind because so many people are claiming he's responsible for every Covid death in America. I still do not consider it murder - not even what Cuomo did. I'd say it was simply incompetence. Mainly because it happened everywhere, not just in New York. Even the Swedes screwed up and did not protect seniors well. I'd never accuse the Swedish government of murder.

What is criminal is people not taking responsibility for screwing up, something the Swedes and other governments have done. Not Cuomo, he blames everyone else, naturally Trump too. Is that because it's an election year or does the man really have no conscience?

They're all politicians and have a hard time ever admitting they are wrong. Apparently scientists too, though science has become so politicized that it is losing the trust of many people. We've had a mask law in Ontario since mid July. We've gone from next to no cases to a spike in cases. Obviously the masks do nothing to protect people. Will the government politicians and scientists ever admit they were wrong and end the mask law? More likely they'll double down and make it a law to wear them outside!

I suppose they are all criminals. I think of them as small people who I wouldn't let run a lemonade stand, let alone give limitless power to. Couldn't each community ask the volunteers at the Rotary Club to run things and tell all the politicians and government bureaucrats to Go To Hell?

Posted by: EoinW | Oct 24 2020 11:44 utc | 180

China's Tibet eradicates absolute poverty

The CCP has done what no feudal warlord (Dalai Lama) has ever done for Tibet.

Yes, the CCP - China's Communist Party. Not the Tibetan gods, not any other religion, not the capitalist colonizers. Communism.

--//--

Number of PCR tests conducted in Moscow surpasses 10 mln

"The total number of tests for the presence of COVID-19 conducted in the capital has surpassed 10 mln. A quality mass testing is extremely important in the fight against the pandemic, so we constantly work on expanding its volumes. To date, in Moscow, city, federal, and private laboratories on average conduct as many as 90,000 tests for the presence of the coronavirus daily," she [Deputy Moscow Mayor Anastasia Rakova] said.

Well, according to many Barflies who frequently comment here, Deputy Moscow Mayor Anastasia Rakova must be a moron, as they claim PCR tests are a fraud that shouldn't be even tried on a mass scale. Too unreliable!

But what does she know? She only has the entire Moscow prefecture machine, with Russia's most brilliant minds on the subject and first-hand data at her disposal.

--//--

Most of world’s chocolate comes from labor of 1.5 MILLION children, some as young as FIVE – study

That's the true source of American prosperity. Why it does what it does in the rest of the world. Not some random dude who does Law or Medicine in some random corner of the Empire.

Everything the USG does, it does for its people. Nobody was complaining about the invasion and destruction of Iraq when the gallon of gas dropped to some cents in the USA.

If you're eating a Kit Kat in the USA, know you're savoring the taste of the Empire, the taste of Pax Americana.

--//--

The Radicalization of a Small American Town - The change has occurred so slowly that at times I hardly noticed it.

It's not that you hardly noticed, but that you noticed it and liked it.

Christian fundamentalism was rehabilitated during the Cold War as a way to fight Communism in American territory on the ideological front. It was all done under the argument of "freedom of religion" - a feature the Americans claimed only existed in capitalism (Free World).

So, no. Christian fundamentalism didn't arose under the American people's nose, in some shithole in Alabama a la a terror movie. It arose under thunderous applause of the New Englander educated elites and the new suburban middle class.

--//--

The Shrinking of the American Mind

Finally someone agrees with my Imbecilization hypothesis!

Admitting you have a problem is the first step, as they say. Assuming the problem is solvable, that is.

Posted by: vk | Oct 24 2020 12:51 utc | 182

America, YOU FAT.

Latest news from Russia. Diabetics are 10 times more likely to come down with covid-19. More than 27% of covid cases in Russia are diabetics.

Of course here in the exceptional nation fat shaming is not allowed. Cannot be mentioned directly or indirectly. Politically incorrect. Say one word about it and at best you must be a trumptard. Deplorable. Irredeemable. Cancelled.

Also as a matter of course medical knowledge from those Soviets is all disinformation.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 24 2020 12:59 utc | 183

@ Posted by: EoinW | Oct 24 2020 11:44 utc | 180

The problem with your argument is that the West uses the same criteria to blame Mao and Stalin of "genocide" - the first for the (non-existent) famines of the Great Leap Forward (which wasn't even Mao's idea in the first place); the second for the famine in southwestern USSR in 1930-1932, which was caused by a new mutation of lice (or rust? Don't remember exactly which).

If you don't consider those COVID-19 deaths capitalist genocides, then you should also - for the sake of intellectual honesty - to not consider the aforementioned cases as communist genocides.

So far, we're only using the criteria the West itself created. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

--//--

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 23 2020 18:58 utc | 144

I read the Strategic Culture article (not the editorial, the other one, about the revival of Russiagate), and I disagree with it in that regard: America's main antagonism continues to be against socialism, not Russia per se.

The key here is that we must understand that, albeit brutal, Russia didn't suffer the fate of Yugoslavia. It was dismantled institutionally, and even then, not entirely.

The Americans do have a fear Russia will become the USSR again. That's very clear from the rhetoric their leaders still use to designate Russia. Russia is only the far-right dystopia in the very limited circles of the so-called "center-left" ("liberals") of the USA, which includes the NYT and WaPo and hence the impression it is bigger than what it really is.

--//--

@ Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 24 2020 5:43 utc | 168

The theory you're using is the Theory of Statecraft, which states History is the history of the eternal struggle between the free individuals and the State's oppressive machine.

In my opinion, this theory - widely used by capitalist/liberal historians, specially historians from "Economic History" field - is pure pseudo-science. The State didn't exist before the Westphalian consensus was created and then spread through capitalism in its industrial phase. You cannot, by any stretch of imagination, call what existed in Antiquity and the Middle Ages "State".

Posted by: vk | Oct 24 2020 13:25 utc | 184

@ vk

Now that's interesting, how were the feudal kingdoms and the various empires in Antiquity and the ME not a "state"?

Of course, you must define a "state" first.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 24 2020 13:32 utc | 185

@Posted by: Jen | Oct 24 2020 10:30 utc | 176

For the pedantic smarty-pants out there, the original cultivated staple crops of archaic/early sedentary Mississippian and Southeast North American indigenous cultures were mainly local native plant varieties in the goosefoot (Amaranthaceae, Chenopodium) and sunflower (Helianthus) families ie. H. tuberosus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_artichoke and H. annuus (sunflower seeds).

Corn, beans and squash were native to south and central America, and were introduced and adopted indigenously to Mississipian agriculture much later.

http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/nat_amer/pre/htmls/m_food.html

"Corn is originally a tropical plant and was domesticated in what is now Mexico by Native Americans. Two-thousand-year-old charred corn kernals have been found at a Woodland site near East St. Louis, but it appears that corn was not an important part of the diet until thirteen hundred years ago or A.D. 700. Mississippians depended on corn for food, and they cleared and planted fields near their towns and villages.

The amount of cultivated plant food in the Mississippian diet distinguishes it from the typical Woodland period diet.

Native plants like goosefoot (Chenopodium bushianum) and sunflower (Helianthus annuus) continued to be cultivated, but more productive plants, not native to Illinois, became most important. Non-native crops-corn (Zea mays), squash (Cucurbita), and eventually beans (Phaseolus vulgaris)-soon became mainstays of the Mississippian diet."

Posted by: gm | Oct 24 2020 13:47 utc | 186

@ Norwegian 171
Yes, the pre-Columbian era is interesting. I lived a while on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, and there was an area (now built over with houses) where the Vikings have been said to have landed.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2020 14:10 utc | 187

@kiwiklown 168
The Chinese citizenry do not only have CONFIDENCE in their government, but they comfortably give their CONSENT to be governed by the CCP.

Yet we hear that the Chinese people are oppressed and unhappy with their autocratic leaders. If that's so, then why do the Chinese return from their world-leading 166 million annual outbound tourism trips (2019)?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2020 14:11 utc | 188

@ Jen 176
Valley of Mexico . .Mississippi River valley . .etc
Yes there are many stories like that in "1491" -- along the Amazon River, Peru, etc. Also in New York the native tribes had a truly democratic society, with females handling the politics and males doing the security duties.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2020 14:13 utc | 189

Stupid, stupid CNN giving Trump tons of media coverage and a mouthpiece and making a big deal while he voted in Florida.

Exactly what Trump wished for: so much attention in a critical must-win state for just casting a vote for himself.

ARRGH! Lame-brain media fails again. Dopes!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 24 2020 14:26 utc | 190

Time to Flee? Áñez Asks US For 350 Visas After Arce's victory

"With the victory of the Movement Towards Socialism (MAS) in the Bolivian elections on October 18, the de facto coup government presided over by Jeanine Áñez, has requested visas from the United States for its officials according to a US-based network."

Posted by: arby | Oct 24 2020 14:29 utc | 191

@ arby

LOL that's pathetic.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 24 2020 14:30 utc | 192

@kiwiklown 174
It is easier to shoot them . . .
It's believed that most natives died from disease.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2020 14:31 utc | 193

Meanwhile in Moreno's Ecuador--

Ecuador: Police Crack Down On Peaceful Protest in Quito

"

Officers on motorcycles stormed into the crowd and dispersed hundreds of demonstrators.

Ecuador's National Police officials Thursday dispersed with tear gas a demonstration called by the Workers' United Front (FUT) to protests against the economic situation and President Lenin Moreno's mismanagement of the crisis."

Posted by: arby | Oct 24 2020 14:51 utc | 194

@Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2020 14:11 utc | 188

"Yet we hear that the Chinese people are oppressed and unhappy with their autocratic leaders. If that's so, then why do the Chinese return from their world-leading 166 million annual outbound tourism trips (2019)?"

Undoubtedly the CIA/DoS-controlled propaganda media would have a ready answer to that. Something like [cue the Wolf Blitzer breathless delivery] 'CNN has just obtained photographic evidence that over 480 million family members of Chinese international tourists were held hostage under brutal conditions last year in prison camps in Xinjiang Province to ensure their travelling relatives would return ...'

Posted by: gm | Oct 24 2020 15:17 utc | 195

Smith,

I guess they like the weather in the US.
Could get very hot for them in Bolivia.
Interesting how they request enough for the top bunch and the grunts they used are left to face the music.

Posted by: arby | Oct 24 2020 17:20 utc | 196

@ arby

Definitely not principled fighters, these people.

Or they just run out of funding because of this election year.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 24 2020 17:29 utc | 197

Clever political ad: A play on the old Weekend at Bernie's movie;

Weekend at Bidens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLIv5L2WxCo

Posted by: gm | Oct 24 2020 17:57 utc | 198

@EoinW, 180

I still do not consider it murder - not even what Cuomo did. I'd say it was simply incompetence.

I agree that it is not murder. Is it not an example of "depraved indifference"? Sending an old, sick person, suffering from a highly infectious disease, out of hospital back to a nursing home which is not a hospital is not only depriving them of care but also putting the susceptible residents at risk. The politicians who ordered the move, the managers who facilitated the move and the doctors involved should be prosecuted for culpable homicide (Scots Law). The doctors should also be struck off for breaching their Hippocratic oath (do no harm). Are these people modern examples of "desk killers"?

thank EoinW and Russ for an interesting discussion

Posted by: cirsium | Oct 24 2020 18:20 utc | 199

@Don Bacon | Oct 24 2020 14:10 utc | 187

Yes, the pre-Columbian era is interesting. I lived a while on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, and there was an area (now built over with houses) where the Vikings have been said to have landed.

If my memory serves me, that's indeed the area in the book I mentioned...

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 24 2020 18:41 utc | 200

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