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October 22, 2020

Open Thread 2020-84

News & views ...

Posted by b on October 22, 2020 at 17:04 UTC | Permalink

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@nypost still locked on Twitter

Posted by: Down South | Oct 22 2020 17:42 utc | 1

https://thecanadianreport.ca/is-this-leaked-memo-really-trudeaus-covid-plan-for-2021-you-decide/


Fellow Canucks, any thoughts? Interested in thoughts given the additional 'lock downs" coming or already came in urban centers.

Disclaimer.....I do not believe everything in this link or the web page.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 22 2020 17:48 utc | 2

Trump released the unedited footage of the 60 minutes interview

https://m.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/350524406214941/?refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FETDJzMQg8X&_rdr

Posted by: Down South | Oct 22 2020 17:49 utc | 3

Was reading around the expiration of the UN arms embargo on Iran when I found this gem of an article, Iran's Next Move: Arms Transfers to South America?, analysing the “security landscape” in South America: “By the end of October, the security landscape in South America could change, with the Islamic Republic of Iran setting up arms sales in South America, from Venezuela to Bolivia.”

Well worth the read.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 22 2020 17:49 utc | 4

75 years after ‘Stunde Null,’ collapse in Russian-German relations is driven by Berlin’s renewed desire to dominate Europe

--//--

The Fed’s $4 Trillion Lifeline Never Materialized. Here’s Why.

The USA is cash starved. At the same time, it is awash with cash. Why is that?

The scientific explanation for this we can find in Marx. Capitalism is the system where value must valorize, i.e. create more value than before.

The USA can print and distribute cash whatever they want to. The underlying problem is that it is not lucrative to invest in US territory anymore, so its financial sector is simply trying to find ways to keep itself afloat.

--//--

Economic recovery: just for China [graphic]

A V-shaped recovery for China and a reverse square root for Europe and the US.

As I predicted in March, China would register a sudden and huge drop in its economic output (GDP), but would quickly recover lost ground after the pandemic was under control because it has a socialist economy, which allows it to quickly activate/deactivate its economy, from the central government.

Looks like I was right, and this is further proof China is, indeed, a socialist economy (and not a capitalist one).

--//--

West's Anti-Chinese Campaign Failing Spectacularly

Now, pick the map in this article and see which countries were polled by PEW Research. You'll see why anti-China discontent grew in their poll.

--//--


AstraZeneca shares turn negative after Brazilian health authority says volunteer in Covid vaccine study dies

The victim was a healthy 28-year-old male Brazilian doctor.

The initial information was diverging: AstraZeneca came out publicly and claimed the dead doctor wasn't even part of the trial. The local Brazilian MSM journalist then claimed her sources were legit and that the doctor was part of the trial, albeit on the placebo group.

It is obvious the doctor wasn't on the placebo group. What are the chances a healthy 28-year-old to die suddenly, precisely during the period he was participating a vaccine trial? Even if he officially was on placebo, you have the objective fact the medical community in Brazil is extremely corrupt, so it wouldn't be surprising if this doctor did what he needed to do to extra-officially go to the vaccine group.

This AstraZeneca (Oxford) vaccine is already dead. It is known to cause transverse myelitis. Now it its known to cause death. If you're from a country that's going to use this vaccine, my advice is to not take it: only the Russian vaccine and the Chinese ones are reliable as of today.

--//--

Republicans push China Task Force Act as election, propaganda ploy

Anti-China tabloid New York Post was very sad for the fact that it was its Ukraine news that viralized.

It wanted for the other news about Hunter Biden to viralize: the one linking him to a "Chinese firm", which was published, by the way, before the Ukrainian one.

But when you read the article, you get the information at the end that the Chinese tycoon was actually a Hongkonger tycoon who lived in a mansion in Long Island, NY, for decades. He committed a lot of crimes in American soil - after which he was extradited... to Hong Kong!

So, does the New York Post suddenly considers Hong Kong part of China? That's a sudden change in its editorial policy. After all, on October 12, 2020, the same NY Post published this article:

Hong Kong [and not "Chinese"] fashion empire heiress dies during ‘illegal’ boob job

--//--

Kremlin dismisses reports claiming Russia supplied ‘faulty’ lung ventilators to US

The USA disposed all the artificial lung machines Russia donated. Machines that could've saved dozens of lives in the US thrown away because of politics and ideology.

The West is descending through a very dangerous path, the path of denial of science and hard facts themselves. This will only accelerate to the West's intellectual decline, which at some point will lead to its absolute technological decline. They will degenerate to a stage where progress itself will have to be actively curbed in order to preserve the system (capitalism). It will be the beginning of a new dark age.

Posted by: vk | Oct 22 2020 18:12 utc | 5

Putin's Valdai Club appearance video and beginnings of a transcript are now posted at the Kremlin's website. Here again is the paper Putin's responding to with his opening speech. What I'll call his introduction is as follows:

"From the onset of the pandemic in Russia, we have focused on preserving lives and ensuring safety of our people as our key values. This was an informed choice dictated by our culture and spiritual traditions, and our complex, sometimes dramatic, history. If we think back to the great demographic losses we suffered in the 20th century, we had no other choice but to fight for every person and the future of every Russian family.

"So, we did our best to preserve the health and the lives of our people, to help parents and children, as well as senior citizens and those who lost their jobs, to maintain employment as much as possible, to minimise damage to the economy, to support millions of entrepreneurs who run small or family businesses.

"Perhaps, like everyone else, you are closely following daily updates on the pandemic around the world. Unfortunately, the coronavirus has not retreated and still poses a major threat. Probably, this unsettling background intensifies the sense, like many people feel, that a whole new era is about to begin and that we are not just on the verge of dramatic changes, but an era of tectonic shifts in all areas of life.

"We see the rapidly, exponential development of the processes that we have repeatedly discussed at the Valdai Club before. Thus, six years ago, in 2014, we spoke about this issue when we discussed the theme The World Order: New Rules or a Game Without Rules. So, what is happening now? Regrettably, the game without rules is becoming increasingly horrifying and sometimes seems to be a fait accompli."

This is the 17th session of the Valdai Club, and I ask: Where is there an equivalent in the so-called democracies of the West which are allegedly the guardians of free speech and debate, where there supposedly exists a "marketplace of ideas"?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 18:19 utc | 6

reply to Tannenhauser @ 2

imho 'The Canadian Report' has the look and feel of a Conservative smear site. I put zero faith in the anonymous leaker ploy. There has been an uptick of these campaigns going on. O'Tool is on the attack and political grandstanding is definitely not what the country needs or wants right now.
Although I have never voted Liberal, I am grateful they are in charge and not Conservatives through this ordeal.

Posted by: ld | Oct 22 2020 18:37 utc | 7

"Here are the consequences of the war for the people of Syria.

The economy has contracted by two-thirds since 2011 [1], the year the United States and its Western allies, along with the Turks, Saudis, Emiratis, and Qataris, assisted by the Israelis, fanned the embers of an Islamist insurgency that has burned since the 1960s into a conflagration.
Over 80 percent of Syrians now live below the poverty line. [2]
Once classified as a lower middle income country, the World Bank in 2018 reclassified Syria as a low-income country. [3]
According to the country’s president, Bashar al-Assad, Syrians are trapped “between hunger and poverty and deprivation [created by the long war] on one side and death [from the coronavirus] on the other.” [4]
Food prices have increased more than 23 times over the past decade. [5]
The World Food Program warns of an impending famine. [6]
Syria’s healthcare system, once one of the finest in the region, is in disarray. The country suffers a dearth of doctors, drugs and medical equipment. [7]
Dams and oil fields barely function. [8]
Industrial areas have been completely devastated. [9]
Schools and hospitals lie in ruins. [10]
Entire neighborhoods have been reduced to rubble. [11]

Washington’s Long War on Syria: An Update

Posted by: arby | Oct 22 2020 19:00 utc | 8

@Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 18:19 utc | 6

Re: "...Thus, six years ago, in 2014, we spoke about this issue when we discussed the theme The World Order: New Rules or a Game Without Rules. So, what is happening now? Regrettably, the game without rules is becoming increasingly horrifying and sometimes seems to be a fait accompli."

Putin said this virtually in the same breath directly after his previous paragraph you excerpted where he speaks of the serious ongoing challenges of the coronavirus pandemic.

What that says to me is that he is hinting with his trademark subtlety that he thinks the CV pandemic may not be a naturally arising event. In other words, a plandemic.


Posted by: gm | Oct 22 2020 19:00 utc | 9

@Tannenhouser,

The site looks like the classic conspiracy theory right wing site, and the contents they point to look amateurish - so I would not put much store by it. Trudeau is certainly not my favourite politician, too much of a US poodle, but this looks way off.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 22 2020 19:06 utc | 10

a bit of good news about USA trying to encircle China:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/indonesia-refuses-host-american-spy-planes-amid-sino-us-cold-war

Indonesia Refuses To Host American Spy Planes Amid Sino-US Cold War


The US and China are smack dab in the middle of a new Cold War. The observation in itself should not be startling to readers - as President Trump's trade war metamorphosed into a technology war over the Chinese tech companies' global dominance. Rapidly deteriorating relations between both superpowers, especially since the virus pandemic, has resulted in increased military action in East Asia.

In the last couple of years, we've pointed out the US has constructed a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth jet "friends circle" around China. More recently, there's been a significant uptick in US spy planes changing their transponder codes to disguise themselves during operations near China.

In the attempt to increase spy plane presence in East Asia, US officials made multiple "high-level" attempts in July and August to Indonesia's top defense and government officials to clear the way to allow Boeing P-8 Poseidon maritime surveillance planes to land and refuel on the Southeast Asia country.

Four senior Indonesian officials familiar with the matter told Reuters that defense officials rejected the US proposal because Indonesia has a well-established policy of foreign policy neutrality - and does not permit foreign militaries to operate across its archipelago.

Reuters notes the P-8 "plays a central role in keeping an eye on China's military activity in the South China Sea, most of which Beijing claims as its territory."

Indonesia rejected the US spy plane presence because it has developed increased economic and investment ties with China over the years.

"It does not want to take sides in the conflict and is alarmed by growing tensions between the two superpowers, and by the militarization of the South China Sea," Indonesia's Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi told Reuters.

"We don't want to get trapped by this rivalry," Retno said in an interview in early September. "Indonesia wants to show all that we are ready to be your partner."

Dino Patti Djalal, a former Indonesian ambassador to the US, said the "very aggressive anti-China policy" projected by the US has become troubling for Indonesia.

"It's seen as out-of-place," Djalal told Reuters. "We don't want to be duped into an anti-China campaign. Of course, we maintain our independence, but there is deeper economic engagement, and China is now the most impactful country in the world for Indonesia."

Greg Poling, a Southeast Asia analyst from the Washington, DC-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said Washington's attempt to pressure Indonesia into giving up land rights so US spy planes can fly in and out of the country is an example of "clumsy overreach."

"It's an indication of how little folks in the US government understand Indonesia," Poling told Reuters. "There's a clear ceiling to what you can do, and when it comes to Indonesia, that ceiling is putting boots on the ground."

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Both China and the US have recently ramped up military exercises in the South China Sea. The US has increased naval freedom of navigation operations, submarine deployments, and spy plane flights, while China has increased naval missions in the region.

To sum up, the new cold war has pressured Southeast Asian countries to take sides; they must choose between the US and or China. As for Indonesia, they quickly decided to be neutral with a lean towards China. Does this mean China's gravity in terms of its size and its influence is overwhelming the US?

Posted by: Hoyeru | Oct 22 2020 19:08 utc | 11

gm @9--

Yes, that's the ongoing rhetorical battle between the Collectivist nations who uphold the sanctity of International Law and the Neoliberal Nations controlled by Financial Parasites that can't survive under a functional International Law System. That distinction is constantly becoming clearer particularly to those residing within the Neoliberal nations as they watch their lives being destroyed. IMO, we're on the cusp of entering the most critical decade of this century which will determine humanity's condition when 2101 is reached.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 19:12 utc | 12

Holy G-d, after that DNI presser yesterday, I can only wonder which reality these clowns are inhabiting. They want us to believe that Iran is attempting to extort people into voting for Trump. Would this be the same Trump who had Qassem Soleimani back in January? Is that what we’re supposed to believe? Are we supposed to be that idiotic? I’m in a stupor here.

Posted by: DougDiggler | Oct 22 2020 19:18 utc | 13

Hoyeru @11--

Does this mean China's gravity in terms of its size and its influence is overwhelming the US?

Indonesia has a very dark history of relations with the Outlaw US Empire and many Overseas Chinese still reside there despite the many murdered during the 1960s. Indonesia also has the largest Islamic population and has closely watched the Empire's destruction of and animus aimed at Islam. IMO, the Outlaw US Empire's own actions have undermined its relations with Indonesia and a great many other nations, and China with its superior values and development philosophy is merely filling the vacuum. Indonesia and China also have longstanding cultural relations stretching back 2,000+ years. And commercially, they've been trading in their domestic currencies since November 2018. With a population closing in on 300 million and the 7th PPP-ranked GDP, Indonesia presents a very large market for China, and I see their relations growing closer as the Outlaw US Empire wanes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 19:32 utc | 14

https://m.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/posts/10157530043341135

Full statement by Tony Bobulinski on his business dealings with Biden and the Chinese.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 22 2020 19:39 utc | 15

On 10/17/20 Mark Crispin Miller posted a link to a youtube video entitled "UN Agenda Soldiers Moved In To Quebec". (He has since posted another link to the same video should the video on YouTube be swept in a purge...) (MCM's original headline, if I recall, had the ominous suggestion to 'Download this video!', which he has since changed.)

The video is certainly worth a look. But what I'm particularly curious about is a comment to the video on YouTube by a user named JCVdude. I'll post the entire comment as it appears there:


Shared to me this am...
I REALLY REALLY DONT WANT TO BE RIGHT ABOUT ALL THESE DURING LAST 7 MONTHS... AND THE NEXT 7 MONTHS....
This needs to go VIRAL!!!!! Only each person can decide if this is real or not. It matches exactly what we have all read and researched will happen IF we don't stop this. This is ALREADY happening in other countries...This is a leaker from the liberal party of canada. Please contact all levels of authorities and gov that we know the plan. The isolation centers we already know are bring built as shown on the gov website RFP program.
Fw: LPC Strategic Committee Leak
Inbox
LPC leaker
1:47 PM (7 hours ago)
----- Original Message -------
On Saturday, October 10, 2020 1:38 PM, REMOVED wrote:
Dear REMOVED,
I want to provide you some very important information. I'm a committee member within the Liberal Party of Canada. I sit within several committee groups but the information I am providing is originating from the Strategic Planning committee (which is steered by the PMO).

I need to start off by saying that I'm not happy doing this but I have to. As a Canadian and more importantly as a parent who wants a better future not only for my children but for other children as well. The other reason I am doing this is because roughly 30% of the committee members are not pleased with the direction this will take Canada, but our opinions have been ignored and they plan on moving forward toward their goals. They have also made it very clear that nothing will stop the planned outcomes.
> The road map and aim was set out by the PMO and is as follows:
> - Phase in secondary lock down restrictions on a rolling basis, starting with major metropolitan areas first and expanding outward. Expected by November 2020.
> - Rush the acquisition of (or construction of) isolation facilities across every province and territory. Expected by December 2020.
> - Daily new cases of COVID-19 will surge beyond capacity of testing, including increases in COVID related deaths following the same growth curves. Expected by end of November 2020.
> - Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 - early January 2021
> - Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.
> - Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus (referred to as COVID-21) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.
> - Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1 - Q2 2021.
> - Enhanced lock down restrictions (referred to as Third Lock Down) will be implemented. Full travel restrictions will be imposed (including inter-province and inter-city). Expected Q2 2021.
> - Transitioning of individuals into the universal basic income program. Expected mid Q2 2021.
> - Projected supply chain break downs, inventory shortages, large economic instability. Expected late Q2 2021.
> - Deployment of military personnel into major metropolitan areas as well as all major roadways to establish travel checkpoints. Restrict travel and movement. Provide logistical support to the area. Expected by Q3 2021.
Along with that provided road map the Strategic Planning committee was asked to design an effective way of transitioning Canadians to meet a unprecedented economic endeavor. One that would change the face of Canada and forever alter the lives of Canadians. What we were told was that in order to offset what was essentially an economic collapse on a international scale, that the federal government was going to offer Canadians a total debt relief. This is how it works: the federal government will offer to eliminate all personal debts (mortgages, loans, credit cards, etc) which all funding will be provided to Canada by the IMF under what will become known as the World Debt Reset program. In exchange for acceptance of this total debt forgiveness the individual would forfeit ownership of any and all property and assets forever. The individual would also have to agree to partake in the COVID-19 and COVID-21 vaccination schedule, which would provide the individual with unrestricted travel and unrestricted living even under a full lock down (through the use of photo identification referred to as Canada's HealthPass) .

Committee members asked who would become the owner of the forfeited property and assets in that scenario and what would happen to lenders or financial institutions, we were simply told "the World Debt Reset program will handle all of the details". Several committee members also questioned what would happen to individuals if they refused to participate in the World Debt Reset program, or the HealthPass, or the vaccination schedule, and the answer we got was very troubling. Essentially we were told it was our duty to make sure we came up with a plan to ensure that would never happen. We were told it was in the individuals best interest to participate. When several committee members pushed relentlessly to get an answer we were told that those who refused would first live under the lock down restrictions indefinitely. And that over a short period of time as more Canadians transitioned into the debt forgiveness program, the ones who refused to participate would be deemed a public safety risk and would be relocated into isolation facilities. Once in those facilities they would be given two options, participate in the debt forgiveness program and be released, or stay indefinitely in the isolation facility under the classification of a serious public health risk and have all their assets seized.

So as you can imagine after hearing all of this it turned into quite the heated discussion and escalated beyond anything I've ever witnessed before. In the end it was implied by the PMO that the whole agenda will move forward no matter who agrees with it or not. That it wont just be Canada but in fact all nations will have similar roadmaps and agendas. That we need to take advantage of the situations before us to promote change on a grander scale for the betterment of everyone. The members who were opposed and ones who brought up key issues that would arise from such a thing were completely ignored. Our opinions and concerns were ignored. We were simply told to just do it.

All I know is that I don't like it and I think its going to place Canadians into a dark future.

What I'd like to ask the patrons of this establishment is... What do you make of it? True? Accurate? Disinfo? Paranoid fantasy?

I have my own ideas about its veracity, but I'd like to hear from the others here whom I greatly respect and who are better informed than I.

Posted by: Lohmann | Oct 22 2020 19:51 utc | 16

Lohmann@17 see #2

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 22 2020 20:04 utc | 18

Tannenhouser@18 (&2)

I'm glad to see that others want to know more...

I emigrated from Murka to Canada some 20 years ago accurately predicting the situation Murka now finds itself in today. But Canada seems to be at the forefront of pushing the globalist agenda. (One just needs to watch CTV news to learn what the latest globalist hot-points are on any given day.) I may have jumped out of the fire, but I didn't think I'd be jumping into hot embers...

Still, I'd rather be here than there...

Posted by: Lohmann | Oct 22 2020 20:11 utc | 19

What do you make of the latest mortality figures?
USA http://www.null4.net/usa-mortality.png
France http://www.null4.net/fr-mortality.png

Source: https://www.mortality.org/

Posted by: Deltaeus | Oct 22 2020 20:22 utc | 20

@2 @16

Although many details about the Great Reset won't be rolled out until the World Economic Forum meets in Davos in January 2021, the general principles of the plan are clear: The world needs massive new government programs and far-reaching policies comparable to those offered by American socialists such as Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) in their Green New Deal plan.

Or, put another way, we need a form of socialism - a word the World Economic Forum has deliberately avoided using, all while calling for countless socialist and progressive plans.

"We need to design policies to align with investment in people and the environment," said the general secretary of the International Trade Union Confederation, Sharan Burrow. "But above all, the longer-term perspective is about rebalancing economies."

One of the main themes of the June meeting was that the coronavirus pandemic has created an important "opportunity" for many of the World Economic Forum's members to enact their radical transformation of capitalism, which they acknowledged would likely not have been made possible without the pandemic.
https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/504499-introducing-the-great-reset-world-leaders-radical-plan-to%3famp

Posted by: Down South | Oct 22 2020 20:29 utc | 21

Posted by: Lohmann | Oct 22 2020 19:51 utc | 16

Well, sounds like a load of paranoid fascist crap to me. Not denying that there may well be food shortages, water shortages etc. etc. in the next 20 or so years. But the idea that the Canadian government, or any other one, is on top of this and has a plan is frankly, laughable.

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Oct 22 2020 20:57 utc | 22

@20
fewer car accidents

Posted by: ptb | Oct 22 2020 21:11 utc | 23

Incredible!
Crowdstrike is still out there being used as a credible source.

...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber-iran-exclusive/exclusive-dumb-mistake-exposed-iranian-hand-behind-fake-proud-boys-u-s-election-emails-sources-idUSKBN2772YL

Crowdstrike attributed emails to Iran based upon a video attachment. Try not to laugh - DARE YOU.

"The video showed the hackers’ computer screen as they typed in commands to purportedly hack a voter registration system. Investigators noticed snippets of revealing computer code, including file paths, file names and an internet protocol (IP) address."

Posted by: librul | Oct 22 2020 21:18 utc | 24

Lohmann & Tannenhouser @18 & 19--

Only one nation to date because of its unique structure and the confidence its citizenry has in its government such that they're capable of acting in harmony has been able to beat back COVID. None of the Neoliberal nations have the requisite qualities/capabilities to match that performance. Canada's infectious curve follows the shape of the Outlaw US Empire's. Clearly, there's a need to do something, but Canada can't emulate China's actions precisely because it's not China. As for the debt relief plan, the IMF isn't at all needed and its inclusion to me indicates something nefarious is afoot. The plan Hudson proposed in this podcast beginning about the 25 minute mark is the best way to deal with such debt. Essentially, the treasury prints then distributes the cash to eliminate the debt, then completely writes down the debt it just created on its own balance sheet since it owes it to itself. Yes, that generates a massive payoff to those owning the debt, but then they no longer hold any and society is recycled back to before it accumulated all that debt. Indeed, a special tax might be enacted to recollect the majority of those payments that would provide the capital to return to the Real Economy.

Many societies need to reach a decision about COVID: Either accept it as a fact of life from here-on-out, thus constant masking, social distancing and hygienic efforts to decrease transmission, or devote the assets required to stamp-it-out and relentlessly trace any new outbreak such that it is prevented from any further spreading from the outbreak's initial point as China's done. Yes, vaccine application might become possible in the future; but IMO, COVID will continue to mutate and pose medical and hygienic issues just as with flu. The IMF, however, is one of the top global parasites, and I wouldn't let it anywhere near to my nation's financial system.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 21:22 utc | 25

Any guesses out there by MOA followers on how many minutes will pass on tonight's presidential debate (LOL) before Donald Trump walks-off the stage? How about seconds?

Posted by: GeorgeV | Oct 22 2020 21:28 utc | 26

@ arby 8
Syria: "Entire neighborhoods have been reduced to rubble. [11]"

According to news reports, Raqqa was devastated by the U.S.-led airstrikes that accompanied the SDF's four-month offensive to drive out the Islamic State, and a year later the city is still in ruins.
It's worse than that. The "so-called fight against ISIL" included the US military firing indirect fire weapons (artillery, rockets, mortars) into a civilian-occupied city. Many of the victims are still buried there in the rubble caused by indiscriminate indirect fire.

Feb 6, 2018 -- A small Marine artillery battalion fired more rounds than any artillery battalion since Vietnam. “They fired more rounds in five months in[to] Raqqa, Syria, than any other Marine artillery battalion, or any Marine or Army battalion, since the Vietnam war,” said Army Sgt. Major. John Wayne Troxell, the senior enlisted adviser to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. “In five months they fired 35,000 artillery rounds on ISIS targets, killing ISIS fighters by the dozens,” Troxell told Marine Corps Times during a roundtable discussion Jan. 23. “We needed them to put pressure on ISIS and we needed them to kill ISIS.” . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 22 2020 21:29 utc | 27

ptb @23
Thanks for responding. That's a good falsifiable hypothesis - I'll try and investigate the data to see if it explains the fact that people are dying in the US at a significantly lower rate than normal. If I can find the data, I'll report back.

When I look at the charts, I see an epidemic that's over, but I'm willing to be convinced there is something else going on.

Posted by: Deltaeus | Oct 22 2020 21:30 utc | 28

Traffic fatalities down 2% despite miles travelled being down by 16%. So a 2% reduction in traffic deaths, which itself is only 2% of deaths from all causes.
There must be something else driving the total mortality down lower than normal.

Source: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813004

A statistical projection of traffic fatalities for the first half of 2020 shows that an estimated 16,650 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes. This represents a decrease of 2 percent as compared to the 16,988 fatalities reported to have occurred in the first half of 2019
Preliminary data reported by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) shows that vehicle miles traveled (VMT) in the first 6 months of 2020 decreased by about 264.2 billion miles, or about a 16.6-percent decrease.

Posted by: Deltaeus | Oct 22 2020 21:46 utc | 29

Posted by: Lohmann | Oct 22 2020 19:51 utc | 16
> - Phase in secondary lock down restrictions on a rolling basis, starting with major metropolitan areas first and expanding outward. Expected by November 2020.
> - Rush the acquisition of (or construction of) isolation facilities across every province and territory. Expected by December 2020.
> - Daily new cases of COVID-19 will surge beyond capacity of testing, including increases in COVID related deaths following the same growth curves. Expected by end of November 2020.
> - Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 - early January 2021
> - Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.
> - Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus (referred to as COVID-21) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.
> - Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1 - Q2 2021.
> - Enhanced lock down restrictions (referred to as Third Lock Down) will be implemented. Full travel restrictions will be imposed (including inter-province and inter-city). Expected Q2 2021.
> - Transitioning of individuals into the universal basic income program. Expected mid Q2 2021.
> - Projected supply chain break downs, inventory shortages, large economic instability. Expected late Q2 2021.
> - Deployment of military personnel into major metropolitan areas as well as all major roadways to establish travel checkpoints. Restrict travel and movement. Provide logistical support to the area. Expected by Q3 2021.

That is an entirely believable scenario - up to the point of the "total debt relief", which I doubt is going to occur. Also, unless someone is planning to increase the lethality of the virus, I doubt there will be a higher mortality rate - although it's certainly possible a la 1917-18.

But the sequence in general is believable. In the US, the sequence is likely to be enhanced by the civil unrest and Constitutional crisis as a result of the election.

We're already seeing secondary lockdowns occurring in New York on a zip code by zip code basis.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 22 2020 21:54 utc | 30

Increase in Death Rate Highest Among People Age 25 to 44
The pandemic is affecting young adults more than has been realized when analyzed on a percentage basis


“Contrary to skeptics who claim that Covid-19 deaths are fake or that the numbers are much smaller than we hear on the news, our research and many other studies on the same subject show quite the opposite,” said that study’s lead author, Steven Woolf, MD, director emeritus of Virginia Commonwealth University’s Center on Society and Health.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 22 2020 21:58 utc | 31

Why Herd Immunity Is a Bad Public Health Policy
Scientists in a top medical journal warn that herd immunity is ‘fraught with risks’


According to the authors’ calculations, 190 million of the 330 million people in the United States would need to be immune to reach a herd immunity threshold of 60%, which, the authors write, would result in “several hundred thousand additional deaths.” ...

So far, the authors write, “there is no example of a large-scale successful intentional infection-based herd immunity strategy.” (Note that this is different from a vaccine-based herd immunity strategy, which does work, albeit imperfectly.) Sweden is the most obvious example of a country that tried to go for herd immunity as public policy, and doing so resulted in some of the world’s highest death rates (especially among the elderly) and economic losses comparable to other European countries, as the New York Times noted in its coverage of the Great Barrington document. And though one might expect many people in Sweden to have antibodies against Covid-19 after this strategy was adopted, the so-called seroprevalence in Stockholm, Sweden, was reported as less than 8% in April — about the same as other cities.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 22 2020 22:02 utc | 32

Covid-19 Cases Rising Again in Nursing Homes Nationwide
Uptick portends more deaths among the most vulnerable and reveals a flaw in idea of natural herd immunity

10 Signs the Pandemic Is About to Get Much Worse
New Covid-19 infections are accelerating, portending a deadly fall and winter


Because younger people are less likely to die from Covid-19, the rate of deaths per infection has fallen (improved treatment has also helped lower the death rate). But that masks the fact that more than 700 Americans are dying from Covid every day — a plateau that has held steady for several weeks. Meantime, hospitalizations have already started to tick back up, and Covid-19 deaths were rising in 23 states as of October 16.

Covid in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count


Case numbers in the United States are rising rapidly as states in the Midwest and Rocky Mountains struggle to control major outbreaks, and as new hotspots emerge elsewhere in the country.

The national trajectory is only worsening. Wisconsin has opened a field hospital. North Dakota, which not long ago had relatively few cases, now has the most per capita in the country. And across the rural West, states like Alaska, Wyoming and Montana that had long escaped the worst of the pandemic have seen case numbers soar to alarming new records.

Deaths, though still well below their peak spring levels, averaged around 700 per day by mid October, far more than were reported in early July.

So much for the "pandemic is over" bullshit from the Covidiots here.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 22 2020 22:11 utc | 33

Forget Shutdowns. It’s ‘Demand Shock’ That’s Killing Our Economy.


But what makes this demand shock exceptional is that the U.S. still has 40,000 to 50,000 new Covid-19 cases and 600 to 700 deaths every day, and as a result lots of Americans are still leery of doing normal, not particularly indulgent things like eating out, going to the gym, or going to the movies. A recent survey by research firm Datassentials, for instance, found that 58% of those surveyed described themselves as “uncomfortable” with dining indoors, and 36% described themselves as “very uncomfortable.” Not surprisingly, then, no matter how creative restaurants get, traffic is still down sharply in most places, and 2.5 million restaurant workers who lost their jobs in April remain unemployed. Similarly, gyms have been open in most states for months now. But a recent survey of 5,000 gym-goers by RunRepeat found that 70% haven’t returned and 43% said they had no plans to go back. Half a dozen gym chains have filed for bankruptcy in recent months, including 24 Hour Fitness, the owner of New York Sports Club, and Gold’s Gym, with many of them permanently shuttering a majority of their locations...

The point is that lifting stay-at-home orders and opening restaurants isn’t enough: Until consumers feel safe, they’re going to stay away.


Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 22 2020 22:19 utc | 34

I came across the Other Side of Truth's Youtube channel while looking for something else and found these videos. Would anyone like to watch and comment?

"Ethiopia's Wonderful COVID-19 Story"

"From Last Place to World Leader - Somalia's COVID-19 Story"

I checked the claim that the first video makes about Ethiopian Airlines having actually earned a profit during the worldwide COVID-19 pandemic and found more mainstream news sources stating that this is true. Ethiopian Airlines did indeed stay in the black by concentrating on cargo transportation rather than passengers. Repatriation flights and auxiliary services such as aircraft maintenance (I presume this would have been for other airlines within Ethiopia and outside) also helped boost Ethiopian Airlines' profitability in the fiscal year that ended in early July 2020.

Even if the videos don't convince MoA barflies, the news about Ethiopian Airlines' lateral thinking and the results this has borne should gladden us all, especially after the Boeing 737-MAX disaster for the airline in March last year.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 22 2020 22:43 utc | 35

Can someone explain how US-backed coups in Brazil, Iran, Guatemala, etc yielded terrible governments that held power for 10 years+, and in Bolivia they lasted a year? The obvious difference I see is that these other countries (and many other examples) yielded dictatorships and had little pretense of civil rights and democracy. Is it getting harder to do regime changes and maintain legitimacy with the American middle class due to social media on-the-ground reports from regime-change victims? Or what accounts for Bolivia reversing course so quickly when other countries with equally unpopular coup governments were stuck with them for 1+ decades?

Posted by: W | Oct 22 2020 22:53 utc | 36

@Deltaeus 28,29

Thanks for looking that up, was curious about that actually.

The 5-10% dip below the baseline is certainly a tantalizing clue to something ... Maybe the extreme precautions taken around hospitals and nursing homes simply mean the elderly are getting other infectious diseases less often.

As for epidemic being over in the US, the serious-symptomatic hospitalization stats say otherwise. I'd take the baseline mortality level as a sign that treatment has drastically improved, combined with the 70+ age group now being much more isolated and thus protected, if often miserable.

I.e. mask use is common enough in urban areas that it is working for those at risk of dying who take it super seriously, but not enough to stop the infections for everyone else.

Posted by: ptb | Oct 22 2020 22:59 utc | 37

Don Bacon @ 27

Yes. Wasn't all that long ago when b and many of the barflies were kind of celebrating the fact that the Yankees lost in Syria and were getting the boot.
Turns out that is not what has happened at all.

Posted by: arby | Oct 22 2020 23:09 utc | 38

Aren't we in agreement Covid was "released" and probably different versions in different areas...maybe some less virile in order to build antibodies? And aren't we in agreement they can release whatever they want to release whenever they want?

Posted by: davenitup | Oct 22 2020 23:12 utc | 39

W @36--

I'll opine that Bolivia has a much stronger civil society whose solidarity was temporarily broken then restored to the point where they could oust the golpistas. Plus, the military is made up of those on the side of civil society. Throughout South America, the reaction to the reactionaries smolders and flames up on occasion where solidarity is high. Neoliberal policies have wrecked every economy where they were introduced there, particularly the middle class, which is weak in most nations, and gave them cause to join with the lower working classes. The struggle there will revive. The Parasites and their allies are too few in number, and Gringoland has proven itself to be more loco than ever before.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 23:17 utc | 40

davenitup @39--

No.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 23:18 utc | 41

W @ 36:

It could be because in Bolivia the working class, the poor and other marginalised groups were more united (after Morales' long presidency which gave them time and the stability they needed to organise) and could communicate with one another in Quechua and Aymara, and in those languages could organise resistance without fear of being infiltrated by those loyal to the interim government whose leaders know only Spanish and English.

There may be other factors unique to Bolivia that helped: being a mostly land-locked country being a country where most support for MAS is in high-altitude areas where Aymara and Quechua are dominant or co-dominant with each other and/or with Spanish; and the neoliberal factions having most of their support in Santa Cruz department which is actually far from the capital La Paz and in the eastern lowland areas.

Ecuador had a strong civil society under Rafael Correa and Brazil under Lula da Silva and Rousseff had also been building a stronger civil society in parts of the country. But they had their own particular issues and strains. Correa put his trust in Lenin Moreno as his successor (which Moreno betrayed) when he probably should have extended his Presidency at the risk of international disapproval.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 22 2020 23:53 utc | 42

The Grayzone went to Bolivia to report on the election with Anya Parampil (worked at RT), Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton and Wyatt Reed.They were immediately harassed and threatened when they landed but then the fascist wheels started falling off.
Here is a very informative interview-- Parampil talks with Ollie Vargas, a British/Bolivian who has reported from Kawsachun Coca News for the past year. Follow Ollie Vargas if you want to understand Bolivia and South America. I'm guessing he will be a part of the new government. His point of view is clear, deep and well spoken.

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/10/21/bolivia-fascism-coup-election/

Posted by: migueljose | Oct 23 2020 0:33 utc | 43

karlof1@25:
.....the confidence its citizenry has in its government such that they're capable of acting in harmony has been able to beat back COVID.

Yes, a citizenry confident in its government and thus acting in harmony on demand was a huge factor in China's success. But that's only half the remedy. The right kind of actions the government demands of its citizenry is the other half. Knowing the right kinds of actions to take, when to take, and who to entrust to carry out, all these details requires competence, diligence, and discipline. Frankly, the highly touted western entities DON'T HAVE these ingredients. Collectively, the western leaderships have been seen fumbling around like drunks in trying to corral COVID for the last 6 months.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 23 2020 0:49 utc | 44

Bacon and Karlof1 and Jen
I agree. Ollie Vargas goes into more depth in the link above regarding the strength of the social fabric in Bolivia which is formidable if you are right wing. The MAS party reacted with almost lightning speed following last year's coup: Evo's governing group appeared to me to be surprised but the grassroots movement that underpins the MAS politicians organized street protests immediately while they also saved Evo's life along with cabinet members. A number of MAS demonstrators were murdered. They didn't back down, they organized. They seemed fearless. Then they held huge meetings in February and later, choosing candidates and organizing campaigns all while being chased, arrested, charged with terrorism. When the fascist government delayed the scheduled elections for the third time in August the MAS people literally shut down the country. Roadblocks everywhere. The fascists tried to retaliate but failed and then backed down and basically never had a chance after that.
We in the U.S. have nothing that comes close to the social fabric of Bolivia. They could teach us but, then again, how do you teach courage? How do you teach sacrifice for others? How do you teach cooperation and commitment?

Posted by: migueljose | Oct 23 2020 0:50 utc | 45

Bravo to the USMC whistleblower who exposed the latest blatant Australian military war crimes in Afghanistan:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-21/soldiers-killed-man-who-could-not-fit-on-aircraft-says-us-marine/12782756

Now imagine if the Australian government tried to extradite the whistleblower by calling him the semantic names the US government reserves for Julian Assange?

Where is the gutless Australian government for Assange?

They are too busy making 'no comment' about actual war crimes. Any signatory to the Geneva Conventions can denounce the conventions. Either defend the conventions for everyone, including Palestinians, or get out.

Posted by: Paul | Oct 23 2020 0:57 utc | 46

@43 migueljose
Thanks, great interview!

@45 good question. One thing that stands out to me, and this is totally anecdotal and may be a stereotype, but it seems in 'big picture' conversations about politics, Latin Americans are more able to draw on their history and that of other countries on the continent, compared to US/Canada. Obviously this is not enough by itself, and also it may be a result of necessity as the stakes are sometimes much higher than in US politics - but there are multiple generations of living left leftist movements, even if they do get overthrown every 10 years or so.

Posted by: ptb | Oct 23 2020 1:28 utc | 47

At the 40 minute point: Biden getting pounded.
Clearly he expected Trump to be hindered by the mike cutoff format, but Trump is clearly very well prepared.
Now Biden is interrupting Trump...

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 1:41 utc | 48

@Deltaeus #20
Links don't work.
I would note that any "mortality" numbers which exclude COVID-19 are highly suspect.
It has been clearly documented that at least half of COVID deaths are people who are seriously ill. There is no question whatsoever that at least some of these would have died anyway but later - yet these are classified as COVID.
Actual overall US mortality through August is up 20% with 2/3rds being classified COVID:
CNN report on overall US mortality

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 1:49 utc | 49

Stopped watching the debate.

I believe Trump is winning this one.

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 23 2020 1:52 utc | 50

Biden drugs run out.

He's exposing his dementia worldwide.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 1:56 utc | 51

@ OV 44
The right kind of actions the government demands of its citizenry is the other half. Knowing the right kinds of actions to take, when to take, and who to entrust to carry out, all these details requires competence, diligence, and discipline. Frankly, the highly touted western entities DON'T HAVE these ingredients.

I suppose many readers have read President Xi's bio, here. I'm impressed. Based on what I know, I share the opinion of former prime minister of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, when asked about Xi: Lee said he felt he was "a thoughtful man who has gone through many trials and tribulations. . .I would put him in the Nelson Mandela class of persons. A person with enormous emotional stability who does not allow his personal misfortunes or sufferings affect his judgment. In other words, he is impressive"

Compare all that with what we get stuck with in our "democracy."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 1:59 utc | 52

As much as I dislike China's culture and society, Xi Jinping is a fearsome man, much to be respected by his enemies.

I think he can range among one of the best leaders China ever had, with similarity to Emperor Wu of Han.

The USA is totally incompetent compared to him.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 2:02 utc | 53

@ c1ue 49
It has been clearly documented that at least half of COVID deaths are people who are seriously ill
I would submit that a leading cause of COVID death, along with illness, is the utter poor condition of most older Americans, and not a few younger ones, for whom the act of walking is considered to be dangerous, for one example, up there with not eating cheeseburgers and fries.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 2:06 utc | 54

@ Smith 53
I dislike China's culture and society
I'm curious, what exactly do you dislike?
I grant that China's culture and society are very un-Western, but there must be more than that for you.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 2:11 utc | 55

Trump is thrashing Biden in this debate while still being civil (well, civil by Trump standards), not sure how impactful this debate will be with the American voters. I think Trump will probably win (60/40 chance) the election as it *feels* like 2016 all over again, if the polling agencies have half a brain cell they will declare Trump the winner of the debate and use that to justify tightening the polls results in the lead up to the election. If we do have a rerun of 2016 again and the polling agencies fail again, I dont think anyone will trust the polling agencies again.

Posted by: Kadath | Oct 23 2020 2:18 utc | 56

@ Don Bacon

If you visit mainland China, you would know China is actually one of the more westernized societies in Asia especially in the urban part due to all the wealth and technological advance, so it becomes a sort of homonized "soulless" culture typical of this century.

Also, couples this with all the survelliance, facial recognition and push for cashless society, it offers a bleak vision of the future for humanity.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 2:18 utc | 57

@ Smith | Oct 23 2020 2:18 utc | 57 who wrote
"
If you visit mainland China, you would know China is actually one of the more westernized societies in Asia especially in the urban part due to all the wealth and technological advance, so it becomes a sort of homonized "soulless" culture typical of this century.
"

Your "soulless" is everyone else's secular and believe it represents a blossoming of humanity from the cultural barbarism of global private finance top/bottom world.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 23 2020 2:36 utc | 58

@Don Bacon #54
That is likely somewhat true, but people with serious existing health conditions died in Europe as well. Italy, France, UK etc.
The point is: a significant fraction of the COVID deaths would certainly have occurred even had there been no COVID - thus any comparison of US mortality which excluded COVID cannot be accurate in any way.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:40 utc | 59

Biden recovered a bit - until he totally lost in on his flip-flopping "Green New Deal" and "no ban on fracking", followed by "ending the oil industry".
Clear win for Trump.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:42 utc | 60

For me the unswered question is why is taxpayer money being spent on vaccines, when the need is prevent the infection.. not fight it with a vaccine after it takes hold.

I read two very interesting papers . recently, both suggest a way to prevent corona virus from attaching to the human cell. both use the GFC and both promise to work in ways that would be very effective.. Waiting on some testing to say more. ..

also, someone said here recently that BCG was under consideration to treat Corona viral infection pathology.. wonder how that is progressing.

what do the barflies think of the content of the following?
mossad biden assissination?

Posted by: snake | Oct 23 2020 2:43 utc | 61

@Smith #57
No, mainland China is nothing like the West.
A simple example: in the West - US or Europe - people line up orderly. In China, it is a literal dogfight.
Then there's the entire surveillance thing.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:43 utc | 62

@Kadath #56
I posted links and excepts to an interview of the one polling company that accurately predicted 2016 in the b post about Bolivia.
Check it out.
Agree or disagree, the points raised are worth consideration.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:46 utc | 63

@ psychohistorian

Yeah, I don't quite agree with that. I mean that sort of "blossoming" secularity can be found in many parts of East Asia or even parts of SEA, it's not quite unique to China.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 2:48 utc | 64

@snake #61
BCG is being explored because, early on, none of the countries with active BCG vaccination programs have serious COVID problems.
However, that's no longer true in the sense that COVID cases in Russia jumped tremendously even as the mortality numbers still are really low.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:51 utc | 65

Great moderator!

So Biden wants to end the oil industry ? Wow! Even Trump was blown away by that.

If that doesn’t ruin Biden’s presidential campaign, nothing will.

Posted by: Down Douth | Oct 23 2020 2:57 utc | 66

@66 Down Douth(sic)

It won't ruin him because the oil industry know that Joe Biden is a centrist and stated fossil fuels would be phased out gradually not overnight and everyone knows this is an absolute minimal necessity to avoid catastrophic consequences the signs of which are already manifesting in the environment.

***********

The debate in general was a snooze fest. Biden gets a passing grade B- and Trump gets a D for two reasons.

First, while at the last debate Trump acted like a bull in a China shop, in comparison at this debate, I thought maybe he got a mild sedative prior to the debate to help him control himself.

However, this more behaved demeanor made him look weak and ineffective and he lied throughout the entire ordeal and maybe spoke a only a couple of half-truths.

It was a yawner, neither was stellar and it ain't gonna change a thing.

People have one thing in mind: as long as Biden keeps a steady, consistent course, he's good enough to get rid of Trump and that's the goal top of mind for everyone.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 23 2020 3:42 utc | 67

snake @ 61
Man accused of plotting to kill Joe Biden after van with guns, explosives found in NC

Interesting, it sounds like the van may have been dropped by someone else and he was the pickup guy to use its contents. 500K is a lot of green to leave laying around for an idiot like that.

Man arrested in Kannapolis accused of collecting guns, explosives, posting threats about Joe Biden

A Polish passport, many drivers licenses and a place in Quebec among other locations. This was no small operation.

That mute button really helped to shut up Trump. He must have actually taken some advice to shut up for the first time in his life after his disaster in the last debate.

It appeared to me Trump got the better of Biden on most issues. Now Biden can go back into the basement and sleep for a week to catch up.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 23 2020 3:44 utc | 68

@c1ue
that no lining up in a ques thing is also very prevalent among Latinos and most South Americans too I experienced while in California. They act as if they have no concept of it whatsoever. Extremely rude bastards too, who simply refuse to speak English.
Maybe it just means Europeans have been better trained to behave as sheep.
Speaking of surveillance, are you kidding? USA has the most surveillance agencies in the world. Ever heard of No Such Agency, CIA, FBI, the 5 eyes, the credit score rating in USA, cameras everywhere etc? The Chinese are simple amateurs compared to the West.

Posted by: Hoyeru | Oct 23 2020 3:55 utc | 69

@ Hoyeru

Nah, the chinese have the infrastructure integrated for survelliance.

The west might spend more money on it, but China is not an amateur in that field, at all.

Hell, chinese companies openly sell the analytics of these data for other companies and the public, and that's just gender/age/location.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 4:19 utc | 70

Smith @ 57:

Typical day in "soulless" China: driver argues with police for nearly nine minutes in Shanghai.

I suppose the proof of such soullessness is the crowd that gathers around the scene.

In the US and maybe some other Western countries, the police would have thrown him against his car or pushed him to the ground and sat on him, or even pulled their weapons on him.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 23 2020 5:14 utc | 71

Jen,

I wouldn't bother trying to change "Smith's" mind on anything. He's a drive by 'paracaidista' commenter who, when pressed for details in response to his one liners, resorts to the standard western "liberal" media lies about China re: surveillance and uniformity and "soullessness" as though the U.S.A. has ever been a model in the right direction on any of those things. You'll find nary a complaint from him about the NSA or CIA and the illegal surveillance and propagandizing of Americans in the mainland. It's a waste.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 23 2020 5:32 utc | 72

Also, Jen - that's a great and telling clip. Imagine that happening in the USA. LOL, never. Someone would have been shot or beaten to death for sure. Instead what you see is reasonable people coming together to protest an unjust police action. In the States, the driver would have been murdered in a hail of bullets and the cops let off without any meaningful consequences. Like how grand juries there that can indict a ham sandwich can never seem to come to an indictment for a cop. It's surely the militaristic attitude rolling downhill from the Empire's wars of choice to the everyday American's existence in a post-industrial private finance controlled false Republic.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 23 2020 5:37 utc | 73

Posted by: Circe | Oct 23 2020 3:42 utc | 67

Dear Circe, I could not watch the debate, timezone does not allow, but this morning I watched a very short segment of fumbling Joe telling a humongous truth that won’t go well with the US public, yes, Hitler was a star for the anglo world, pre war time of course.

I would not dare comparing the three hours of Putin during the Valday forum with the pathetical old man that should just retire. It would be like comparing a master class with kids playing in a kindergarten, and now go ahead and call me a troll.

Posted by: Paco | Oct 23 2020 5:49 utc | 74

@ Jen

You were saying? Another typical day in "soulless" China:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OkVQ-BVNXo&ckattempt=1

I mean, it's not hard to find evidences of "police brutality" in the US or China. It depends if you like to be kneed in the guts or stepped upon I guess.

@ _K_C

I don't see how the West spying justifies China spying.

The USA isn't a model, and China isn't a model either, and that's my problem. There's no model society to look forward to.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 5:49 utc | 75

karlof1 | Oct 22 2020 21:22 utc | 25

"Many societies need to reach a decision about COVID: Either accept it as a fact of life from here-on-out, thus constant masking, social distancing and hygienic efforts to decrease transmission, or devote the assets required to stamp-it-out and relentlessly trace any new outbreak such that it is prevented from any further spreading..."

Well that's a flat-earth way to pretend the obvious alternative doesn't exist: Recover sanity and go about life as before with neither a fascist "stamping out" mentality nor the radically anti-social superstitions of face diapers and hex spacing. That is, regard it the same way we've long regarded the comparable flu.

That's the sane, rational, pro-human baseline.

And to say yet again, only the most deranged Dominionist delusion thinks you can "stamp-it-out" or prevent this virus from completing its natural cycle now that it's been widely at large in the environment for at least a year.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 23 2020 5:55 utc | 76

davenitup | Oct 22 2020 23:12 utc | 39

"Aren't we in agreement Covid was released..."

At first everyone here agreed it almost certainly was an accidental release from Fort Detrick, an accidental release from Wuhan, or a deliberate US bioattack on China and Iran.

That was before b and most of the regulars became born-again imperialists, part of which was to receive their marching orders that the virus had a so-called "natural origin", for some definition of "natural", whatever that could mean in an ecocidal commodity globalist context. Certainly going by any non-Orwellian, English language definition of natural, there's no conceivable way the origin was natural. (That's why the propagandists dropped any specifics as far as the origin and took refuge in vague slogans.)

Posted by: Russ | Oct 23 2020 5:56 utc | 77

# 67 circe: "The debate in general was a snooze fest...It was a yawner, neither was stellar and it ain't gonna change a thing."

If the resident rabid TDS frother has such a restrained response, Trump must've clobbered him.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 23 2020 5:57 utc | 78

Interesting pair of articles about Russia - from RT about the relationship with Germany:

https://www.rt.com/russia/504238-berlin-dominates-europe-moscow/

and from Strategic Culture on "Russophrenia":

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/20/russophrenia-or-how-a-collapsing-country-runs-the-world/

and then Putin at Valdai:

https://thesaker.is/russian-president-putin-delivers-speech-at-valdai-discussion-club-2020/

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 23 2020 6:05 utc | 79

@ _K_C

Also, why do you lie?

I watch that chinese driver arguing with police clip, these people aren't protesting the police action, they are just gathering to look at the act, while the police does their job.

And it's not just unjust action either, that dude is being uncooperative and deliberately blocking the license plate, and yes, he does get roughed up a bit by multiple police. Is that police brutality?

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 6:07 utc | 80

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:40 utc | 59 The point is: a significant fraction of the COVID deaths would certainly have occurred even had there been no COVID

You still don't get it, do you? If they would have been alive today without having had the virus, the cause of death *is* the virus.

Only a moron claims that someone who might have died a year from now or ten years from now from his underlying condition should not be counted as a virus death - regardless of whether he had COVID-19 or any ordinary flue.

You officially have the title "Covidiot".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 23 2020 6:39 utc | 81

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 23 2020 2:40 utc | 59

Only a moron claims that someone who might have died a year or ten years from now from an underlying condition should not be counted as a virus death - regardless of whether he had COVID-19 or regular flu.

You are officially a "Covidiot".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 23 2020 6:41 utc | 82

_K_C_ @ 72, 73:

Well the people gathered around the altercation weren't actually intervening on the driver's behalf. But it is significant that they did stop and watch out of curiosity, and were not afraid of what the police might do to them. You can see how closely they cluster around the police as they and the driver continue their dispute. This might say something about the public attitude towards the police in China.

Smith @ 75:

It would be very odd that in a nation of some 1.2 billion, there were no incidents of police brutality. What is significant in that video you posted is that it came to the attention of the news media in China and those media made it public. In other countries, including Western countries, the police would not only cover up the brutality but the news media would spin it so as to put the police actions in a better light than they deserve, or the police would even later be acquitted of manslaughter.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 23 2020 6:43 utc | 83

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 23 2020 3:44 utc | 68

My kind of guy. LOL Someone who doesn't just bitch and moan on a blog.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 23 2020 6:44 utc | 84

Poisining Navalny without actually killing him makes a lot sense. Murdering him would have made him a martyr. Poisened but alive he still serves as a deterrent for others.

Particular reveiling was Dimitri Peskovs statement at the 1st of October where he claimed that Navalny works for the CIA. The Russian government didn`t publish any evidence for it`s allegation (Isn`t it the BND that Navalny is supposed to work for?) bit that`s not even the point.

Peskov: "We didn`t poison Nawalny. And that traitor totally deserved it!"

Posted by: m | Oct 23 2020 6:45 utc | 85

@ Jen

I mean, what would the police do to them? Crowd gathering around the police has always been a thing, even in western countries, some even try to fight the police to protect the guy who's being arrested.

In the famous G. Floyd case, you have people all around police crying and hollering.

Also, the idea of cover-up happens in all countries, not just western and Chinese media, so that's not a good comparison. The difference is that western media always tries to inflame tension, and you have talking heads defending the victim/police and create counter narratives so both the police and civilians feel pissed off instead of finding a solution.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 6:51 utc | 86

@jen or never indicted for murder at all, because the prosecutor didn't give the grand jury that option.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 23 2020 6:54 utc | 87


The British Poultry Council is seeking an urgent exemption from virus-related quarantine restrictions for at least 1,000 seasonal workers from countries including Poland, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria. The proposed relief would be needed for the end of October, it said in an emailed statement on Wednesday.

“There is a shortage of U.K.-based workers with the necessary training and qualifications to slaughter and process Christmas turkeys,” British Poultry Council Chief Executive Officer Richard Griffiths said in the statement. “If these vacancies cannot be filled, it will have a significant impact on the production of and therefore cost of food.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-21/u-k-quarantine-threatens-christmas-dinner-poultry-group-warns

Posted by: Mao | Oct 23 2020 7:01 utc | 88

Trump, Biden and the ‘f****** Germans’

Close US engagement with Berlin will be questioned whoever wins the presidential election.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-joe-biden-angela-merkel-us-germany-transatlantic-relationship/

Posted by: Mao | Oct 23 2020 7:13 utc | 89

m@84 the buzz about Navalny is that he and some partners were running an anti-corruption blackmail racket getting compromising information on various enterprises and individuals and Navalny decided to cash out without informing or consulting with his partners. Nothing to do with the Russian government.

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 23 2020 7:32 utc | 90

@snake #61
BCG is being explored because, early on, none of the countries with active BCG vaccination programs have serious COVID problems.
However, that's no longer true in the sense that COVID cases in Russia jumped tremendously even as the mortality numbers still are really low. by: c1ue @ 65

What is interesting about BCG is its ability to restore .. 20 years ago, bladder cancer worldwide.. was using BCG to restore all four classes of BC.. but then no one had any idea as to how it worked.. and I could not interest anyone to study its mechanism.. The wives tale history of BCG use in BC is interesting, <= a TB hospital discovered by accident during WWII that patients with both TB and BC showed improvement, instilled directly into bladder it often put BC in remission. .

Back then, I understood to be only one manufacturer (in Canada?).. I do not know if there are different kinds of BC or what..what is the history on BCG vaccination where can i update? thanks.

Posted by: snake | Oct 23 2020 8:53 utc | 91

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 23 2020 1:59 utc | 52

I remember watching Trump with Xi the first time with the chocolate cake and the cruise missiles. I remember thinking that that was a BIG mistake on Trump's part, Trump the Chump.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 23 2020 11:07 utc | 92

finally at step in the prevention direction for CoVid 19.. might even use the antibodies for a back up vaccine..

neurologist Mika Simons - Technical University of Munich.

neuropilin-1, a tour director for Corona Virus S protein?

Posted by: snake | Oct 23 2020 11:26 utc | 93

@46 Paul "Bravo to the USMC whistleblower who exposed the latest blatant Australian military war crimes in Afghanistan"

If you read the article you will see nowhere within it a claim that this Marine actually witnessed the "war crime".
Indeed, apparently he didn't even see anyone being killed, much less witnessed the manner in which they died.

As in...
Marine: "And you just heard this silence and then we heard a pop. And then they said, 'OK, we have six prisoners'. "
Marine: "This was the first time we saw something we couldn't morally justify, because we knew somebody was already cuffed up, ready to go, taken prisoner and we just witnessed them kill a prisoner"

According to him own testimony he had *deduced* what had happened based on what he had heard, but he hadn't *witnessed* a killing.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 23 2020 11:40 utc | 94

Saad Hariri is back in the game! It will be different, this time, won't it? ;-)

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Oct 23 2020 11:41 utc | 95

@49 c1ue "It has been clearly documented that at least half of COVID deaths are people who are seriously ill. There is no question whatsoever that at least some of these would have died anyway but later - yet these are classified as COVID."

That argument leaves me cold. Everyone dies. E.v.e.r.y.o.n.e.

To say that a person who died of Covid would have died of Something Else Anyway is an argument that can be applied to every single person.

If they hadn't had a car accident then something else would have killed them.
If they hadn't overdosed on heroin then something else would have killed them.
If they hadn't been riddled with bullets then something else would have killed them.
If they hadn't gone into cardiac arrest then something else would have killed them.

All equally true, because The Undiscovered Country comes to everyone.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 23 2020 11:47 utc | 96

well here's two more people, an unarmed black couple, in a "suspicious vehicle" shot down by the domestic occupying army. but hey, maybe they had underlying health conditions, right?
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/yes-im-nervous-mayor-urges-192721062.html
more temporary desk duty for the officers, i expect. i remember watching video of 2 cop cars plowing through protestors in new york city, but those cop cars weren't suspicious. no weapons were found in the car. the officer who shot them said the "suspicious vehicle" began reversing toward him so he felt it necessary to pull his gun and fire into the car killing the passenger and badly wounding the driver. the driver said "mama, they shot us for no reason".

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 23 2020 12:08 utc | 97

@smith
In the famous G. Floyd case, you have people all around police crying and hollering.
yeah, people don't like seeing cops murder people in the street. fortunately some of the crowd took videos of the murderous cops, which is why they are being prosecuted, and wonder of wonders, lost their jobs instead of being assigned to a desk where they couldn't kill anybody but other cops.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 23 2020 12:13 utc | 98

i suppose we should be grateful the cops didn't steal the phones, as they have done in past cases, or shoot randomly into the crowd. i guess there were too many cameras, too many people watching, for them to think they could get away with a plea of self defense.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 23 2020 12:17 utc | 99

@ pretzelattack

The fact you admit that the cops in the USA allow these civilian-filmed footages to be aired in the media means there's at least some sort of semblance of "freedom" comes.

You ever notice how in the China clip, nobody brings up their smartphone to film the incident, and nobody seems to say or shout anything? That's not a coincidence nor that group not having a smartphone, it's that their phones would be taken if they indeed film it and they don't want no trabble.

The footage in that clip was filmed by a cop.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 23 2020 12:33 utc | 100

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