Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 15, 2020

Media Again Falsely Claim That Joe Biden's Intervention In Ukraine Was Innocent

Yesterday the New York Post posted a bombshell report related to Joe Biden's corrupt interventions in the Ukraine:

Smoking-gun email reveals how Hunter Biden introduced Ukrainian businessman to VP dad

Hunter Biden, Joe's son, was hired as lobbyist by the Ukranian gas company Burisma while his father, then Vice President of the United States, directed U.S. foreign policy with regards to the Ukraine.

Joe Biden famously ordered (vid) the Ukrainian President Poroshenko to fire his General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin. He threatened to otherwise withhold a $1 billion loan to the Ukraine. Biden's pressure to fire Shokin came ten days after Shokin had confiscated several house of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky. Shokin was eventually fired, the loan to the Ukraine was released and the corruption case against Zlochevsky was buried.

Joe Biden has denied:

  • That he had talks with his son about Hunter's lobbying job for Burisma.
  • That he had ever any talk with Burisma related people.
  • That his insistence on firing Shokin was related to an investigation by Shokin into the owner of Burisma.

The emails the NY Post posted show that one of Burisma's managers thanked Hunter Biden for arranging a meeting with Joe Biden. The source of the emails is allegedly a laptop owned by Hunter Biden which was left at a repair shop.

Some Biden acolytes claim that the emails must have come from an alleged Russian hack of Burisma. But the NY Post also published private photos of Hunter Biden showing him smoking and passed out next to a crack pipe. The photos may well have been, as the Post claims, on a laptop Hunter Biden owned. It is extremely unlikely that they were hacked from Burisma severs.

The Biden campaign offered only a weak refutation of the NY Post claim that he met with the Burisma manager:

Biden’s campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn’t appear on Biden’s official schedule. But they said any encounter would have been cursory.

In an unprecedented manipulative act Facebook as well as Twitter censored links to the NY Post story:

Twitter prohibited its users from posting links to the Post story, while Facebook reduced how often the story shows up in users’ news feeds and elsewhere on the Facebook platform.
...
The New York Post, in an editorial responding to the companies’ actions, said: “Censor first, ask questions later: It’s an outrageous attitude for two of the most powerful platforms in the United States to take.”
...
Facebook, the world’s biggest social network, limited dissemination of the Post story within hours of its publication on Wednesday, according to a tweet by spokesman Andy Stone.

Stone cited a policy saying that Facebook can temporarily take action against content pending review by news organizations and others in its third-party fact-checking program “if we have signals that a piece of content is false.”

Facebook's spokesman Andy Stone has previously worked for the Democrats:

He served as communications director for the House Majority PAC between 2012 and 2014; press secretary for Democratic California Sen. Barbara Boxer between 2011 and 2012; and press secretary for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) between 2009 and 2011, according to his LinkedIn profile.

Facebook's 'fact checking' is done by the shady Atlantic Council:

Max Blumenthal @MaxBlumenthal - 2:25 UTC · Oct 15, 2020

Replying to @andymstone

It seems relevant that one of Facebook’s key third-party fact checkers, the Atlantic Council, is funded by Burisma - the corrupt Ukrainian gas company that paid Hunter Biden $80k a month - DC’s Atlantic Council raked in funding from Hunter Biden’s corruption-stained employer while courting his VP father

Following the Streisand effect the censoring of the NY Post story by Facebook and Twitter has increased the distribution of its claims.

Many outlets reported on it. However a number of these also repeated false claims that Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner when Joe Biden pushed for his firing.

The Washington Post's 'fact checker' Glenn Kessler claims:

[T]he Americans saw an obstacle to reform in Viktor Shokin, the top Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the United States viewed as ineffective and beholden to Poroshenko and Ukraine’s corrupt oligarchs. In particular, Shokin had failed to pursue an investigation of the founder of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky.

The Stars and Stripes writes:

While Shokin had been investigating Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that Hunter Biden was on the board of, the investigation had long been dormant by the time the vice president was pushing for Shokin's ouster in early 2016, a former Ukrainian official told Bloomberg News in May 2019.

NBC News asserts:

But let's be clear: Shokin wasn't fired because of anything improper Joe Biden did, no matter how colorfully Biden recounted the tale in 2018. It's a point worth repeating, loudly, as Daniel Goldman, the former prosecutor who led the investigation for House Democrats, did on Twitter.
Daniel Goldman @danielsgoldman - 12:36 UTC · Oct 14, 2020

Let’s try this one more time: the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired because he was NOT prosecuting corruption cases and there was NO Ukrainian investigation into Burisma. In addition to there being no evidence to support the bogus allegations, the basic premise is simply false.

The claim that Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner is evidently false. As we have pointed out several times Shokin, the prosecutor, confiscated four large houses and a luxary car of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky just ten days before Joe Biden started to press for his firing.


bigger

Ukrainian media at that time reported of the confiscation on February 4 2016:

The movable and immovable property of former Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of Ukraine Mykola Zlochevsky in Ukraine has been seized, according to the press service of the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine (PGO).

"The PGO filed a petition to court to arrest the property of the ex-Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of Ukraine, the Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, Mykola Zlochevsky, from which arrest was withdrawn, and other property he actually uses, namely housing estate with a total area of 922 square meters, a land plot of 0.24 hectares, a garden house with a total area of 299.8 square meters, a garden house in the territory of Vyshgorod district, a garden house of 2,312 square meters, a land plot of 0.0394 hectares, a Rolls-Royce Phantom car, a Knott 924-5014 trainer," reads the report.

The PGO clarifies that the court satisfied the petition on February 2, 2016.

Biden's call to Poroshenko during which he pressed for Shokin's firing followed on February 12 2016. At that time Burisma paid millions to the lobbying shop of Joe Biden's son.

That U.S. media continue to deny that Shokin was indeed going after Burisma's owner shortly before Joe Biden called for his firing is despicable.

Joe Biden's corrupt intervention in the Ukraine stinks to high heaven.

Similar must be said about the Biden family's shady business with Chinese companies.

Posted by b on October 15, 2020 at 15:46 UTC | Permalink

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https://mobile.twitter.com/SohrabAhmari/status/1316446749729398790

This is fascinating!

Posted by: Down South | Oct 16 2020 8:54 utc | 101

Maybe Joe Biden, being an honorable man from Delaware, thought that his original agreement to the bait and switch deal was over and suddenly refused to lie down in early October or totally blow the debate to enable the Karma Harris anointment. So then they had to rush in the old laptop strategy to nail the old blighter down. Goodness knows how much more salacious detail is on that laptop but with any CIA/NSA luck it will turn the whole circus into a sh!t show. I bet there are Russian cryllic characters embedded in it or maybe a russian cigarette in an ash tray in a photograph.....

Anyway laptops never seem to get anywhere near incriminating, ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Please don't tell me I have to watch more Rudi Giuliani antics, that would be excruciating.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 16 2020 10:18 utc | 102

Gruff asked

Is it a lie to say that Trump openly and bluntly criticizes the corporate mass media?
_________________________________

Yes that is a a big fat lie.

Trump has openly and bluntly criticized the so called left leaning side of corporate mass media. But Trump has done more than most presidents to prop up the corporate mass media as a whole. There are two branches of the corporate mass media - the self proclaimed left or liberal side and the self proclaimed conservative or right side. Trump has done more than any other president to drive morons into the arms of one of these sides or the other.
Both of these sides of the corporate mass media now have more eyeballs glued to their side of the mass media, to the exclusion of the other side, thanks to Trump.

The point that people are so deranged by trump that they will support things that are either clearly false or not in their own best interest is certainly valid. But that applies to people who support trump as well as those who hate him. Trump inspires derangement. Trump was not kidding when he said his supporters would continue to vote for him even if he shot somebody in public is clearly an indication of how deranged Trump's supporters are. And now Biden supporters are displaying the same derangement and vowing to support Biden no matter what.

Trump has been a gold mine for the corporate mass media. He is the goose that keeps laying golden eggs. They will do whatever is necessary to ensure the eggs will keep coming for another 4 years.


Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2020 11:42 utc | 103

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 16 2020 2:55 utc | 70 It would not be impossible to make a fake laptop with Hunter's stuff on it

You know the last time a laptop was rigged for propaganda purposes? The one the Israelis created, gave to the M.E.K., and got it leaked to the West so the US could go after Iran. Gareth Porter pretty much proved it was a fake due to mistakes the Israelis made when they faked the documents on it.

Posted by: Triden | Oct 16 2020 3:49 utc | 74 They say the files were placed on the drive two months after it was received at the repair shop.

Can they even be sure that was the drive the laptop came with originally? If someone didn't modify the time stamps on the files, that was a really stupid move. You'd expect the NSA/CIA spooks - even Crowdstrike - would be a bit more competent in loading faked files. Of course, computer forensics is not easy, but still.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 16 2020 11:56 utc | 104

I looked up Cicada 3301 on Wikipedia. I'm fairly sure that's likely a group of what are called "cypherpunks", a play on the word "cyberpunk", which references libertarian hackers who are heavily into using cryptography as a means of ensuring freedom of information, privacy and a free Internet.

Much less interesting than QAnon - not that I've bothered reading up on that, either, since brain-dead conspiracy theories without actual evidence don't interest me. At least QAnon has political ramifications which 3301 doesn't appear to.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 16 2020 12:10 utc | 105

jinn @103: "...that is a a big fat lie."

Except that it isn't.

A previous comment from me:

"Don't publish the truth if it helps Trump!"

People should look long and hard at the implications that attitude has for "journalism".

Some people apparently are.

"While Tuesday’s report reinforces the pervasive us-versus-them mentality currently permeating American life, it also found most people seem to have less trust even in their own chosen media sources." From Poll Shows Growing Distrust of Media Among Americans, Aug 4, 2020.

These are empirical facts. It is a sign of delusion when your view of things does not align with the empirical facts related to that thing. It is unfortunate that your Trump Derangement Syndrome has led you into a delusional view of the world, but at least you offer lip service to the possibility that those whose minds melted down in 2016 from Trump's upset victory might not be completely on speaking terms with objective reality anymore. Your objection to the truth that I posted suggests that you are in that group. This is why I urge people in general to put a little more effort into serious introspection.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 12:43 utc | 106

Triden wrote

These "3 and a 1/2 D" Chess deconstructionist attempts really aren't your forte, are they?
____________________________________

This is not a deconstruction. I predicted the concrete evidence against Biden/Ukraine impropriety would come out right before the election more than a year ago when the CIA whistleblower story came out. How stupid do you have to be to believe that the CIA was affronted by Trumps words to Zelensky and that motivated the CIA to tattle on Trump to Congress? You have to be as stupid as a democrat to believe that. And you have to be as stupid as a republican to believe it was not done to help Trump as we are now witnessing.
Any fool could have predicted that Ukraingate was designed to hurt Biden far more than it hurt Trump and now that prediction is coming true

The whole purpose of Ukrainegate was to create the groundwork for this "bombshell" revelation just before the election.

Hunters laptop was probably lost or stolen while Biden was porking a prostitute or involved in some drug deal in early 2019. The unbelievable story that it was forgotten at a repair shop by Hunter and just by coincidence the contents were then magically turned over to Giuliani is just a cover story to make the possession of the stolen material by the Trump campaign appear legal. The near sighted repair man thinks it was Biden but he is not sure - yeah right.
Giuliani and Trump were aware of the evidence against Biden when Trump spoke on the phone to Zelensky in that famous phone call.

If you want to know why the American elites were given control of the board of a Ukraine company that had previously been manned by Russian elites this story may partly explain it:
https://www.sfo.gov.uk/2014/04/28/money-laundering-investigation-opened/

The board of Burisma was changed from Russian to American shortly after the $23 million was seized and then several months later the money was released when the Brits claim that the Ukraine prosecutors would not release the evidence. The Ukraine prosecutors say they were never asked to provide any evidence.
This $23 million laundering is just the tip of the iceberg. If you look for it you will find that Billions of dollars have been laundered through companies like Burisma. The conduit in Ukraine is Privat bank and Privat connected companies like Burisma. The IMF provides loan guarantees and large US and Brit banks lend the money to Privat bank which lends the money to Burisma which uses the money to buy goods from shell companies in the West (or Russia before 2014). The money is transferred out of Ukraine, the goods are never delivered and the money is disappeared and the legal system in Ukraine (or Cyprus) never prosecutes anybody and Billions of dollars are shared by everyone involved.

Here is a story on the money laundering that appeared ironically the same day as Hunter Biden allegedly dropped off his laptop to be repaired:
https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/oligarchs-weaponized-cyprus-eranch-of-ukraines-largest-bank-to-send-5-billion-abroad

Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2020 13:22 utc | 107

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 16 2020 11:56 utc | 104, 105

Cicada 3301: Looked like some form of mental masturbation to me. Not that there is anything wrong with that ....

laptops: yeah the Israelis are among those who I would expect to think that fabricating an entire laptop to put something over on their "friends" was a good idea. Yeah, the timestamps would be a real chore to make look "natural" unless there isn't much on the machine to start with. That video with him in it would be hard to "invent" though.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 16 2020 13:42 utc | 108

It's strange to me that people accept anything about these laptop emails given the clear political manipulations which include other "October surprises", Sanders as a sheepdog (again), and the Democrats predilection to shoot themselves in the foot.

Here's a scenario: Hunter turns over his laptop voluntarily to FBI investigators or CIA years ago. They take an image of the disk. Deep State election manipulators scrub the hard disk and concoct a story about how it was "found" so that they can release damaging unverified info via Giuliani.

The Deep State elected Trump in 2016 and will do so again in 2020. The establishment (including establishment Democrats) secretly love Trump. He does everything they want him to do.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 16 2020 13:45 utc | 109

The ‘core’ of this story, though not fully elucidated, is well known. I remember a thread here way back which had much of the basics, I posted about Rosemont Seneca, etc.

What is new is the ‘laptop’ narrative, the photos published, the hint at other material to come; and the timing is of course significant. The Chinese connection I only became aware of now.

Report from the US Senate:

Hunter Biden, Burisma, and Corruption: The Impact on U.S. Government Policy and Related Concerns (2020, 80+ p.)

excerpt, from summary:

The Chairmen’s investigation into potential conflicts of interest began in August 2019, with Chairman Grassley’s letter to the Department of Treasury regarding potential conflicts of interest with respect to Obama administration policy relating to the Henniges transaction. During the Obama administration, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) approved a transaction that gave control over Henniges, an American maker of anti-vibration technologies with military applications, to a Chinese government-owned aviation company and a China-based investment firm with established ties to the Chinese government. One of the companies involved in the Henniges transaction was a billion-dollar private investment fund called Bohai Harvest RST (BHR). BHR was formed in November 2013 by a merger between the Chinese-government-linked firm Bohai Capital and a company named Rosemont Seneca Partners. Rosemont Seneca was formed in 2009 by Hunter Biden, the son of then-Vice President Joe Biden, by Chris Heinz, the stepson of former Secretary of State John Kerry, and others. /end

One of the key findings, quote:

In addition to the over $4 million paid by Burisma for Hunter Biden’s and Archer’s board memberships, Hunter Biden, his family, and Archer received millions of dollars from foreign nationals with questionable backgrounds. /end

One of the conclusions, quote:

Many of the allegations Democrats have made against Republicans — that they are relying on foreign disinformation, that they are carrying out a politicized investigation in an effort to bring down their political opponents, and that they are working covertly with the executive branch to quickly release sensitive information for political reasons — reflect the very patterns of behavior that Democrats themselves have engaged in, and continue to engage in, on a regular basis. /end

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf

A lighter read: Inside the shady private equity firm run by Kerry and Biden’s kids. NY Post. March 2018.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/inside-the-shady-private-equity-firm-run-by-kerry-and-bidens-kids/

BHR partners

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BHR_Partners

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 16 2020 13:48 utc | 110

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 16 2020 13:42 utc | 108 That video with him in it would be hard to "invent" though.

I suspect the videos are real - but getting them on a fake laptop would be no problem at all. And even faking the videos might not be that hard, depending on what quality they are. An independent forensic analysis of those might be interesting. The problem with faking anything physical - even digital - is that it usually leaves artifacts that exposes the faking. Visual inspection is not enough to detect a fake these days - it requires low level forensics. Every byte has to be looked at for consistency and anomalies. If no one does an independent forensic analysis of that laptop and publishes their findings, we know the fix is in. And we'll almost certainly never know who really was behind it.

It will be just another "DNC hack" story that gets accepted as mainstream reality.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 16 2020 13:59 utc | 111

Your views on the causes of any socially given evil pulled my attention. Careerism, formal educational systems, inertia all contribute to a banality of evil. Nice. Note they do not cause evil itself: they cause it to be socially tolerated.
It s diagram cut into reality.
But one formidable factor is missing: they treatement, the focus -or omission thereof - the interrest of the MSM media including web portals of existing everyday facts.
First, any kinda bigger media does NOT exist by itself: they are just a sound box, a resonance box... of third parties. Or, better write 'resonance' like this: re$$onance box.
Take for inst a simple screw factory. If they fail to produce and
and keep fine quality of their product , in 2 years they're out of the market.
Not the media: their product is the information, with lesser value/space for the entertainement byproduct. They can cover and disguise their product for a decade or more with just a coordinate attention to a key narrative and careful avoidance of
mention to contrary hints, indications or adverse facts... They do NOT HAVE to maintain a 'quality' level for the product. The info prodct is twistable, retortable, so to say hideable, susceptible to manipulation... and not least, plainly forgetable by the public.

Posted by: augusto | Oct 16 2020 13:59 utc | 112


I checked this morning to see if there was any coverage in of the Biden e-mails in the Times. I didn't see any but there was an answer provided to questions about WAP, which I'm sure everyone knows is an anacronym for Wet Ass Pussy.

I also learned from the Times recently that we should all be grateful for the Cardi B's song WAP because it addresses the cross cultural fear of vaginal wetness. It's about time!

Posted by: David | Oct 16 2020 14:08 utc | 113

Modern Conservatives seem to see everything with a mote in their eye. In the USA we don't vote for the candidate we like. We vote for the least dangerous candidate. Trump brags about killing Syrians to steal their oil - is just one example how this degenerate is worse. I haven't voted since I had to to avoid a Mcain Bimbo administration. I'm definitely voting Biden.

Posted by: Ralph Conner | Oct 16 2020 14:19 utc | 114

Boy are you desperate to rescue loser Trump! Anyone who would peddle Giuliani/Murdoch trash is really scraping the gutter for whatever dirt they can find.

It's no secret Hunter Biden was addicted to cocaine and managed to overcome it.

And Trump grabbed pussy (sexual assault) and had unsafe sex with other women while Melania was pregnant and had a private Vietnam of frolicking unsafe promiscuity and cheated on all his wives and declared bankruptcies and was a all-time loser who owes hundreds of millions today having had every opportunity in the world starting off with daddy Drumpf's fortune.

I could care less who did what as long as your Trump ziofascist stooge is OUT!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 16 2020 14:30 utc | 115

These are empirical facts. It is a sign of delusion when your view of things does not align with the empirical facts related to that thing.
______________________________________________

Gruff is lying again.
You make shit up and call it empirical facts. Here is one of the findings of the poll you cited:
"Given the choice, however, more Americans say they are concerned about bias in the news other people are getting (69%) than say they worry about their own news being biased (29%)."
The poll confirms the point I made. There are two arms of the corporate mass media and the morons believe that the arm of the news media that they are glued to is accurate while the other arm is inaccurate when in fact both arms are often lying sacks of shit.

Trump did not cause the lack of confidence in the news media. The decline in confidence was already happening well before Trump came along. Trump has done more to drive people back into the arms of the corporate media than anything else.

The empirical facts are that after Trump entered the scene more eyeballs are now glued to the corporate mass media than before Trump became a politician. Both the right arm and left arm of the corporate mass media have benefited enormously from Trump. Both arms now have tons of followers that are willing to believe just about anything that their chosen media outlet delivers.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2020 14:36 utc | 116

Does anyone honestly believe that loser, cheapskate Trump who owes hundreds of millions of dollars to foreign lenders would inject $10 MILLION of his own money into his 2016 campaign when he himself admitted he thought he was going to lose? Naaaawh!

If that money wasn't his; and given his stingy reputation, it smells sewer dirty, then that's a serious crime; someone knows, and can blackmail him and how I wish and pray evidence surfaces and orangeman meets orange jumpsuit and leaves White House for Big House, as straight into the Slammer!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 16 2020 14:59 utc | 117

"Trump brags about killing Syrians to steal their oil - is just one example how this degenerate is worse."

It is so much better to kill Syrians for their oil and pretend that it is all for humanitarian purposes, I suppose.

On the other hand, that precisely is why I think Trump is better. Honesty is always better, even when the truth is one that you'd rather not face... particularly when the truth is one that you'd rather not face, in fact. Indeed, a big part of why so many neoliberals hate Trump so much is that he doesn't put a kind and noble face on the murder they want to commit.

US Conservative: Kills brown people and celebrates the body count.

US Liberal: Kills brown people but refers to the dead with their preferred pronouns.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 15:01 utc | 118

it's a beautiful October morning in Montana. I'm going to a river today with the family. I'm going to breathe fresh air without a mask on my face and I'm going to remind myself this is a marathon fight that is WAY BEYOND the cartel knife fight everyone is getting the vespers over on these threads.

Posted by: lizard | Oct 16 2020 15:25 utc | 119

jinn @116

The poll, and your subsequent response, confirms that you are not very bright, or perhaps you are delusionally seeing things that you want to see in information that does not support your desired conclusion.

The poll indicates that distrust in mass media, including distrust in one's own preferred mass media echo chambers, has increased. Your interpreting this as Trump "driv[ing] people back into the arms of the corporate media" requires loss of contact with reality on your part.

I don't think you are lying. I think you are delusional.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 15:34 utc | 120

"Trump had unsafe sex!"

And a smug grin of approval lights the faces of half the Americans hearing of that while millions of women bitterly complain "But he didn't have unsafe sex with me!"

As an aside, I recently came across a study that showed more than half of adult American women have not had an orgasm in the preceding twelve months, and presumably this percentage has been on the rise. I would be interested to see if this orgasmlessness corresponds to hysterically puritanical attitudes towards sex that seem to also have been on the increase lately. This could be an ongoing hidden tragedy that is not getting near enough public attention.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 15:54 utc | 121

That mean he didn't make her wear a mask?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | Oct 16 2020 16:13 utc | 122

@118 William Gruff

Only a lousy bullshitter would put Trump, truth and honesty together when Trump has racked up 20,000 lies since taking office.
🤥's👖on🔥

@121 William Gruff

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to respond with idiocy and remove all doubt.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 16 2020 16:48 utc | 123

oldhippie; Some advise to your friends who want to learn Ukrainian... they likely speak it fluently and don't even know it! ENGLISH is the new "Ukeainian"...it's popping up everywhere as part of the mass media blitz on the poor people.

Posted by: nardami | Oct 16 2020 17:09 utc | 124

The poll indicates that distrust in mass media, including distrust in one's own preferred mass media echo chambers, has increased.
____________________________________
That is your lying spin of what the poll indicates.
The majority trust the news that they rely on but distrust the news other people rely on.

Here is some of what the actual pollsters reported:

"As evidenced in this study, party affiliation remains the key predictor of attitudes about the news media"

"Given the choice, however, more Americans say they are concerned about bias in the news other people are getting (69%) than say they worry about their own news being biased (29%)."

"Americans are more likely today to say the media’s role in democracy is “critical,” up five percentage points since 2017."

"Nearly 8 in 10 Americans (79%) say news organizations they distrust are trying to persuade people to adopt a certain viewpoint, while 12% say they are trying to report the news accurately and fairly but are unable to do so."

That last one indicates that 91% think the other arm of corporate news (which they don't trust) is being inaccurate due to either malice (79%) or incompetence (12%)

____________________________________________
Your interpreting this as Trump "driv[ing] people back into the arms of the corporate media" requires loss of contact with reality on your part.
__________________________________

You are lying again. I have not said the poll says anything at all about Trump. The poll provides no information whatsoever about whether anything has changed since Trump became president. The poll does confirm what I said in regard to two separate arms of the corporate news media. The sheeple that follow one arm do not trust the news that comes from the other arm and visa versa.


Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2020 17:12 utc | 125

jinn @125

I have no intention of curing you of your delusion. That delusion is clearly a central component of your "identity". I am only responding to suggest that if any other readers are confused that they read the report on the poll themselves to see if it supports your claim that the public's trust in the mass media has increased since Trump has become president. Most readers here, however, are sufficiently tuned in to reality to be aware that the corporate mass media's credibility among the American public has plummeted since 2016. Your assertions to the contrary are just "Trump Derangement Syndrome" talking.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 17:50 utc | 126

I am only responding to suggest that if any other readers are confused that they read the report on the poll themselves to see if it supports your claim that the public's trust in the mass media has increased since Trump has become president.
_____________________________________________

You just won't quit lying. I never said the poll supports my claim that the public's trust in the mass media has increased since Trump has become president. The report on the poll results says nothing about Trump at all. I did not present the poll as supporting that claim. That would be stupid because the poll is not at all useful in determining what has changed since Trump became president.

I said that the number of eyeballs glued to the left wing and right wing news outlets today compared to five years ago is what reveals that Trump has driven many of the sheeple back to the corporate news media. The poll you cited says nothing one way or the other about that.


Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2020 19:14 utc | 127

jinn @127

What you said, apart from being unsupported by anything but delusional notions that you pull out of your ass, is irrelevant to your assertion that it is a lie that Trump criticized the mass media. Stop being such a pathetic sophomore.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 21:13 utc | 128

What you said, apart from being unsupported by anything but delusional notions that you pull out of your ass, is irrelevant to your assertion that it is a lie that Trump criticized the mass media.
___________________________
There ya go again - flat out lying.
My assertion that it is a lie that Trump criticizes the mass media was correct. Trump constantly praises the right hand of the mass media and both the left hand and the right hand of the mass media have benefited greatly from Trump's machinations.
Both arms of the mass media have gained more loyal followers who trust what their particular arm of the mass media is telling them. Before Trump came along both arms of the mass media were suffering from growing credibility issues.

Trump's ability to instill credibility to the mass media to the sheeple is the number one reason Trump's contract will be renewed for four more years.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 16 2020 22:50 utc | 129

"Cockburn has watched the scenery collapse with a deepening sense of wonder and respect. Wow! Go on Hunter, my boy, you frat star, you baller. Send a candid 12-minute video of yourself, mainlining crack while getting blown? Why not! Parley your father’s influence in Washington into multi-billion dollar business deals with your comically suspect foreign mates? Hell yeah!"

"There’s an intellectual honesty, an integrity too, in the fact that Hunter smokes crack rather than snorting lines. It’s egalitarian. Unlike those who prosecute the war on drugs, Hunter acknowledges that the two substances are the same."

https://spectator.us/hunter-biden-rules-actually

Posted by: groucho | Oct 17 2020 0:08 utc | 130

jinn @127

What you said, apart from being unsupported by anything but delusional notions that you pull out of your ass, is irrelevant to your assertion that it is a lie that Trump criticized the mass media. Stop being such a pathetic sophomore.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 16 2020 21:13 utc | 128

Mr. Gruff, with all due respect you should've paid attention to _K_C_ who aimed at you on a different thread. Asking you 'not to reach for low lying fruit'. Your above argument with Jinn above borders on delusional. However, Jinn is no better. When debating someone, Jinn and they're calling you delusional, is that reason for you to retort they're lying?

The original question posed by Mr. Gruff is such: "Is it a lie to say that Trump ridicules identity politic and thus weakens it's ability to silence critics?"

Jinn then poorly paraphrases your quote with: "Is it a lie to say that Trump openly and bluntly criticizes the corporate mass media?

Then states "Yes, that's a big fat lie." but immediately follows with: "Trump has openly and bluntly criticized the socalled left leaning side of corporate mass media." before launching into their main argument that Trump is driving people back to mass media.

Imho they've set up a delusional argument as you suggest, but then you had to introduce the link to that equally delusional poll. What part of the leading blurb from your link agrees with your supposition about the poll and the purported storyline behind it?

"More than two-thirds of respondents said they are concerned about bias in the news other people are getting, while less than a third said they worry about their own preferred sources being biased."

Imho, it agrees with Jinn's argument more than yours. Pretty much making this whole debate a waste of the reader's time, eh?

I agree with _K_C_ that we need your amazing intellect more than we need you reaching for those low lying fruits, because perhaps you're having trouble finding anything important to contribute. As for Jinn i agree with most of what you were arguing, but please, get a grip.

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Oct 17 2020 2:45 utc | 131

Trumps made some progress on issue of political/technocrat corruption. This is a central issue to US collapse not a side show and hard to run out of fuel - Washington corruption with support of media. High time it was taken on, hope it becomes a trend.

His nominee to court is pretty special - cool move by Barbara.

His job on foreign policy is/was withdrawl.

I believe civilian death rate has been reduced.

Hes battling use of C/V as political issue same on racism and police brutality and protestors - partly result of outside actors and money.

Hes given the repubs something of a purpose.

Not that bad for a dummy.

Posted by: jared | Oct 17 2020 9:53 utc | 132

aye @131 wrote:

Jinn then poorly paraphrases your quote with: "Is it a lie to say that Trump openly and bluntly criticizes the corporate mass media?
________________

That was not a paraphrased quote. That was a
verbatim quote that I challenged

My point is that Trump is no more critical of the corporate mass media than Biden or Obama. They are all cheerleaders for their special arm of the corporate mass media. Biden says the NY Post is fake news while Trump tells us they print only the truth. Trump says the NYT is fake news while Biden says they only print the truth. They are both promoting the corporate mass media. The only difference is that Trump is far more successful. Under Obama the eyeballs glued to the corporate mass media was in decline since Trump entered the scene the number of eyeballs glued to the corporate mass media has grown.

These are the things that the donor class looks at when they do their performance reviews of the politicians that their money goes to support. Its one of the many reasons the donor class prefers Trump over Biden.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 17 2020 12:14 utc | 133

Since we know that Mossad had an operative unit near Nicosia Airport in Cyprus that copied content of millions of passengers' "smart"-phone for about two-and-a-half years it is not so farfetched to suppose that they got a lot of politicians' and oligarchs' private conversation ,sms and e-mails at their hands to service and fabricate corruption,blackmail on persons and false computer contents to show.And notably pertaining to Ukranians and Russians,and maybe steering all the troubles and rebellions in Russia's backyard.As does the NSA .

Posted by: willie | Oct 17 2020 12:47 utc | 134

114#

One might ask:Who's the conner con-man,Trump or Biden.It does not one little bit make a difference to the rest of the world.In the whole united states there is not even one honest person in politics .Why bother,get your guns out and start killing your overlords.That may not help the survival of your incoherent society,but it will clear up the landscape.After you have done with the media,think about the bloodsucker' lawyer class as a target.Don't they all pick in your pockets,are they not misleading your children about what is right and what is wrong,do you think they'll hesitate one second to do yourselves in?

Posted by: willie | Oct 17 2020 12:56 utc | 135

@114 clinton bragged about quaddafi getting sodomized with a broomstick, obama bragged about how good he was at killing folks, biden brags about he's gonna go after russia and show them what's what; democrats and republicans are just about all enthusiastic warmongers.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 17 2020 13:21 utc | 136

I could care less who did what as long as your Trump ziofascist stooge is OUT!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 16 2020 14:30 utc | 115

I understand the sentiment, the bottom line is that we should have single-term presidents. Someone wrote about a family with a family company, the patriarch got senile so to keep him in a good cheer they organized a fake office where he could come every day, write and approve documents etc., with no access to actual decisions.

Whoever wins, Oval Office will be a fake office. One can make a case that Democrats working in real offices would be less obnoxious than Republicans, AT LEAST ON SOME MATTERS. Arguing for Trump on the basis of selected Tweets is naive at best, arguing for Biden -- as some otherwise intelligent people are doing -- is a combination of wishful thinking and some sober pessimistic considerations. In the long run, we can work on thinning the web of lies spun by self-serving elites and their mercenaries.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 17 2020 15:40 utc | 137

Larry C Johnson over at SST has an October 16 post up claiming that the Hunter Biden emails are authentic. His source is the father of the nerd who owns the computer repair shop entrusted with the laptops. The laptops became the property of the repair shop when Hunter B failed to respond to requests to collect the laptops and settle the account.

https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2020/10/yes-the-hunter-biden-emails-are-authentic-by-larry-c-johnson.html

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 17 2020 15:45 utc | 138

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 17 2020 15:45 utc | 138

I'm not prepared to call Larry directly a liar, but I'm still not buying the story. The emails may be real, but the provenance of how they were obtained reeks of BS. Plausible, perhaps, but still reeks.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 17 2020 23:07 utc | 139

I'm no fan of Biden, having preferred Bernie Sanders, but it's comforting to know that Robert Gates and John Bolton, neither of whom will vote Trump, do not like Biden's policies especially foreign and defense policy and refuse to vote for him either. I guess they'll abstain.

Biden should wear war hawks Gates' and Bolton's repudiation of him as a badge of honor.

Here's the thing, it's not about Biden, interventionist one day, and non-interventionist another. He's a one-termer, so I don't give a damn, 'cause THIS ELECTION IS ABOUT GETTING TRUMP THE HELL OUT OF OFFICE!

That's all, people, that's all it is -- so, quit griping, quit fretting, quit digging and grow up!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 18 2020 1:14 utc | 140

Richard Steven Hack @Oct17 23:07 #139

The emails may be real, but the provenance of how they were obtained reeks of BS.

The scenario I outlined @Oct16 13:45 #109 still seems more likely than Hunter leaving multiple laptops at a repair shop.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 18 2020 4:26 utc | 141

I kind of find Circe's naïveté about Trump to be endearing. One must wonder whether Circe understands that just because Trump Sr. might lose this particular election - even in a landslide - that doesn't by definition make him a one term president. I see no reason to think that if he can stay alive by whatever hook, crook or chemicals that are also keeping Sleepy Uncle Joe alive, Trump might become the next Grover Cleveland - having been elected to two terms, but not consecutive.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 18 2020 5:19 utc | 142

@ Jackrabbit | Oct 18 2020 4:26 utc | 141.. your note @109 is plausible.... the question i have and am unable to answer is " Is it actually certain that Hunter Biden dropped these off? Or someone who claimed to be Hunter Biden?" it makes more sense to me someone else dropped them off, lol....... the shadow knows!

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2020 5:31 utc | 143

james @143

Is it actually certain that Hunter Biden dropped these off?
____________________________________________

Even the repair guy says he is not certain that Hunter Biden dropped these off. The only person who could be certain is Hunter and it seems he is not talking. It would be pretty simple for Hunter to say "that is not my laptop and I've never been to that repair shop"

Anybody interested in some details of the current Burisma board:
https://www.back2facts.com/articles/2019/12/9/its-not-the-bidens-its-blackwater

Posted by: jinn | Oct 18 2020 14:15 utc | 144

james @Oct18 5:31 #143

Is it actually certain that Hunter Biden dropped these off?

Just to be clear, I didn't question if Hunter Biden actually dropped off the laptops.

I speculated that Hunter may have voluntarily turned over the laptops to CIA/FBI and the 'repair shop' story was concocted to explain how Giuliani gots possession of some juicy emails.

Just like Hillary's email-gate, Seth Rich, and Russia-gate, nobody will be prosecuted or ever see the inside of a jail cell for Hunter-gate unless they are targets of the CIA/Deep State (like Assange, Flynn, and Manafort). IMO these are all examples of made-to-order, false-flag propaganda created to achieve a goal: a convincing 'leak'; manipulate public opinion; etc.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 18 2020 14:54 utc | 145

@ jinn | Oct 18 2020 14:15 utc | 144... that is my point jinn... we don't know for sure who actually dropped off the computer...

@ Jackrabbit | Oct 18 2020 14:54 utc | 145... okay.. thanks for clarifying that..

both of you - sst - pat langs site, is covering this more aggressively at the moment... see the site for more ins and outs... cheers..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2020 16:53 utc | 146

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