Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 30, 2020

Welcome Back In Independence - Why It Was High Time For Glenn Greenwald To Resign From The Intercept

Yesterday Glenn Greenwald resigned from the Intercept.

The editors of the online journal, which Greenwald had co-founded, tried to censor a recent piece he wrote on the corruption of Joe Biden and on the concerted media effort to suppress that story. Greenwald's contract with the Intercept guaranteed him editorial independence. With its censorship efforts the Intercept breached that contract.

The Intercept editors replied to Greenwald with a smear piece that does not refute any of the claims he has made:

We have the greatest respect for the journalist Glenn Greenwald used to be, and we remain proud of much of the work we did with him over the past six years. It is Glenn who has strayed from his original journalistic roots, not The Intercept.

Aheem. No. I have read Glenn Greenwald since, fifteen years ago, he first published at his former blog Unclaimed Territory. He went on to write for Salon and the Guardian. Every Greenwald piece I have read was worth the time. Greenwald's writing has not changed at all. It was the Intercept which soon after it launched already moved away from what it had promised to be and which ended up as useless 'me too' in the librul media landscape.

Others have commented on the resignation:

My first reaction to Greenwald's resignation was a question:

Moon of Alabama @MoonofA - 18:19 UTC · Oct 29, 2020

Why did it take him so long?

Matt Taibbi @mtaibbi

The answer is, as Greenwald himself mentions, the financial security the contract with the Intercept gave to Glenn and his family. But that came with a serious reputational price that is no longer worth paying.

That the Intercept was not the adversarial outlet that it had promised to be at its founding has long been clear. I have written several Moon of Alabama pieces about that.

Our most seminal piece on the Intercept described it as part of a U.S. government operation which used Silicon Valley billionaires to buy the Washington Post and to create the Intercept with the intent to remove the Snowden papers from the public. The same outlets then went on to create Russiagate:

     From Snowden To Russiagate - The CIA And The Media was published on December 26, 2017.

Snowden had copies of some 20,000 to 58,000 NSA files. Only 1,182 have been published. Bezos and Omidyar obviously helped the NSA to keep more than 95% of the Snowden archive away from the public. The Snowden papers were practically privatized into trusted hands of Silicon Valley billionaires with ties to the various secret services and the Obama administration.

The motivation for the Bezos and Omidyar to do this is not clear. Bezos is estimated to own a shameful $90 billion. The Washington Post buy is chump-change for him. Omidyar has a net worth of some $9.3 billion. But the use of billionaires to mask what are in fact intelligence operations is not new. The Ford Foundation has for decades been a CIA front, George Soros' Open Society foundation is one of the premier "regime change" operations, well versed in instigating "color revolutions".

It would have been reasonable if the cooperation between those billionaires and the intelligence agencies had stopped after the NSA leaks were secured. But it seems that strong cooperation of the Bezos and Omidyar outlets with the CIA and others continues.

After the Snowden rush was over Glenn Greenwald mostly wrote for Intercept Brazil about the corruption under Jair Bolosonaro. He unraveled the fascist efforts to put the former President Lula into jail. As he lives in Brazil Greenwald's reporting came at a high personal risk.

As he will now be freelancing again we can expect him to again concentrate on U.S. politics. He will add to the faithful reporting of Taibbi, Yves Smith, Tracey and other independent writers. It is high time to do so as U.S. media on the leftish side have become incapable of publishing faithful news about their favorite candidate.

In his censored Intercept piece Greenwald points out that the U.S. media and social media suppress any mention of the corrupt behavior of the Biden family in the Ukraine and in China. It his highly welcome that he adds his voice to our debunking of the media falsehoods in those affairs:

The claim that Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner is evidently false. As we have pointed out several times Shokin, the prosecutor, confiscated four large houses and a luxury car of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky just ten days before Joe Biden started to press for his firing.

Glenn Greenwald is a well known author. He will be able to gain enough readers to support his now again independent writing. Still independence comes at a price. Besides the income there are a lot of perks that come with writing for a larger outlet. As a lonely independent blogger one is at times missing those. 

But Greenwald's career path only reinforces my determination to continue Moon of Alabama as an independent entity. It is the only way to report and opine without the interference of other interests. My thanks go to you, the readers, who make this possible. 

Posted by b on October 30, 2020 at 13:22 UTC | Permalink

next page »

As Matt Taibbi pointed out the suppression of the Biden story is an even bigger story than the scandal itself.

Now that Greenwald has resigned in such a public manner and for the reasons he has, there is no way that the US MSM can continue to suppress the story without severe reputational damage.

The damage control they have run for Biden just blew up in their face.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 30 2020 13:29 utc | 1

The podcast Greenwald did with Joe Rogan is fascinating too.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 30 2020 13:32 utc | 2

Good. Maybe Glenn Greenwald now has the "editorial independence" (read: cojones) to clarify in detail why the Snowden Files have been swept under the table?!

Posted by: v | Oct 30 2020 13:40 utc | 3

Thanks to you, Glenn & all independent journals for having the balls and integrity to do the right thing!
I will continue to send financial support to you both.

Posted by: 4 corners Bill | Oct 30 2020 13:41 utc | 4

Kudos to you for your reporting on The Intercept's shady origins and practices. I always wondered how Greenwald managed to stay with them for so long after Matt Taibbi abandoned ship.

While I hate the personal turmoil this is likely going to involve for Greenwald, I'm impressed by the extent to which he's kept his credibility undamaged over such a long period.

Posted by: stratodude | Oct 30 2020 13:42 utc | 5

And thanks to you, b.

Posted by: fx | Oct 30 2020 13:43 utc | 6

No surprise to find that Peter Maas is at the centre of this sordid story- his work, most of which is founded in the endless repetition of discredited CIA smears, exemplifies the corruption in The Intercept.
Independent bloggers like b, Craig Murray and Greenwald (and there are very many others) ought to consider the possibilities of forming
a loose federation in order to maximise the exposure and availability of their work. With the monopolies like Twitter, Facebook and Google using all their strength to obscure real journalists' work it is crucial that those attempting to discover the truth should be easily accessible.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 30 2020 13:45 utc | 7

"The Real Story of the last four years" - Glenn Greenwald

At the 4:00 minute mark in this video Greenwald sums up the sorry state of our, now, Security State. Democrats and the MSM have allied themselves with The Security State.

Jump to the 4:00 minutes mark.

Posted by: librul | Oct 30 2020 13:49 utc | 8

Meanwhile, Naomi Klein makes an even more unlikeable person out of herself:

Glenn was not "censored" - he was edited, and edited well. Crying censorship is a marketing ploy to gin up subscribers for his new Substack. Are people really going to fall for it?

From Shock Doctrine to Sellout Queen is only a small step in journalism.

Posted by: v | Oct 30 2020 14:00 utc | 9

if you listen to Greenwald on Joe Rogan, and you listen carefully, you might glimpse the true insight that drives our media gatekeepers, even the ones who proclaim their independence. I'll summarize it this way: as reputations are built, fear of ridicule keeps the edifice of identity that results from crumbling.

for example, why is it that I can't post links at MOA, a winner of the Serena Shim award for uncompromised integrity in journalism, to another website (TLAV) that has ALSO won the Serena Shim award?

is it that our host is just too afraid to be called a Covidiot on Twitter? is that why the conversation here has been so narrowed and links to TLAV don't show up?

my list of media sources I trust keeps getting shorter and shorter.

Posted by: lizard | Oct 30 2020 14:02 utc | 10

Dear b.: GG is a very slipy person. I reccomend you some Pepe Escobar writings about him.

Posted by: Francisco Montero | Oct 30 2020 14:05 utc | 11

Yep, agree in full. Wonder if part of the trade was, in addition to the paycheck, protection from Bolsonaro?

In any case, Greenwald helped show that both halves of the US 2-party system approve the support of violent right wingers worldwide, when it protects the empire's power, as is the most common pattern. His MSM detractors still believe the modern US, in total, can be a force for peace and democracy. It will take them many years to admit the depth of contradictions. And when they do they will be fired. So it goes...

Posted by: ptb | Oct 30 2020 14:09 utc | 12

Pretty disappointing for MoA to talk about the involvement of Bazos and the other guy Omidyar and fail to mention the other side of the transaction, Greenwald himself. Those guys purchased the Snowden archive from Greenwald no doubt for millions perhaps even tens of millions of dollars. They are all lawyer/businessmen and they did business. Well over 90% of the Snowden archive will never appear in public and we will never know what is in them this is entirely due to the actions of Glenn Greenwald Bazos and Omidyar are just business men acting for their own interests.

Greenwald, like Chomsky, are charlatans and propagandists working for imperial interests.

It gets easier and easier to pick out the fascists, they are the ones who cry DEMOCRACY no matter what. DEMOCRACY - There is no alternative. It's still working as we can see.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Oct 30 2020 14:15 utc | 13

b., care to explain why you list Yves Smith here?
She posted one Greenwald resignation article today too,
and reposted exactly one "maybe, maybe not" article over Hunter Biden's emails 10 days ago,
but otherwise big black nothing.

Posted by: michael | Oct 30 2020 14:24 utc | 14

Posted by: lizard | Oct 30 2020 14:02 utc | 10

You trust The Last American Vagabond? This hyperventilating blabbermouth?
He has opened so many doorways to all kinds of rabbit holes but has never found a way out.
Same goes for people like James Corbett.
A good yardstick for how trustworthy a media source is, is to read the comment section and the chat conversations during the live-shows.

Posted by: v | Oct 30 2020 14:25 utc | 15

B: Pepe Escobar AND Sibel Edmonds on slippy GG

Posted by: Francisco Montero | Oct 30 2020 14:31 utc | 16

I am always shocked that GG is still perceived as having any credibility. He founded the intercept, he didn't just work for it. He buried the snowden files as pointed out above.

As far as him "needing a paycheck" to "support his family", fucking hilarious. How many books has he written? How many paid appearances? GG and the next couple of generations of his descendants don't have any financial concerns.

I believe GG is what is known as a gate keeper.

Posted by: visak | Oct 30 2020 14:32 utc | 17

I have only pity for the so called journalists who still write for the Guardian.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 30 2020 14:43 utc | 18

I welcome GG's assault on The Intercept, obvious "controlled opposition".

So he sold out and now he wants to "regain trust".

But as others said, the question that comes to mind is: "Why did it take so long?" and also "Why now?" Which leads to the observation that we should scrutinize closely what GG makes an issue of next. They're up to something.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 30 2020 14:57 utc | 19

GG has been consistent through the years in both his excellent writing and world view. As for Snowden - GG, LP and others have the entire Snowden cache - it has not been buried by billionaires. Why it all hasn't been released or reported on is the question to ask, which I'm sure they have sound 'journalistic' reasons, or not. It's easy to question the honor and veracity of strangers from afar. From this POV GG has been a consistent voice for good in the ol' blogosphere.

Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 30 2020 15:02 utc | 20

'The motivation for the Bezos and Omidyar to do this is not clear.'

Let's remember that the CIA essentially funded Amazon's development through its cloud computing contract.

I wonder how many other Tech 'Unicorns' have received funding or seed financing (and perhaps their technology too) from the CIA.

Perhaps the CIA is America's version of Iran's Revolutionary Guards?

Posted by: dh-mtl | Oct 30 2020 15:09 utc | 21

"finally" was my first thought as well. i had his intercept author page bookmarked but just giving a single view to that PoS site made me feel like i needed a shower after.

granted, he should have left after the syria nonsense. then after the russiagate stupidity (risen and mackey are by far two of the most screeching and idiotic gaters outside of louise mench and her alternate dimension). then he should have left when they took down the snowden archive - which, as you and others have mentioned many times, was only a paltry sliver of the entire release. i've never 100% bought into the "snowden was a limited hangout" theory but WOW did they shit the bed on what could have been a profound set of leaks.

i've also been a bit confused over his recent "poor victimized joe rogan getting 9 figures to say dumb shit for 4 hours a day" campaign but i hope he keeps publishing books and maybe find a way to monetize his work. as a fellow reader of his going back to the blogspot days i agree he's not only great at the actual technical art of writing but mostly consistent (he was oddly anti-chavez back in the day which is funny given his current residence and whom he interviews).

Posted by: the pair | Oct 30 2020 15:30 utc | 22


trust is earned, and trust can be lost. TLAV helped Whitney Webb keep a critical eye on the true implications of the Ghislaine op and the connections to the dark winter vaccine op.

but hey, at least b won't be labeled a Covidiot on twitter.

Posted by: lizard | Oct 30 2020 15:33 utc | 23

dh-mtl @ 21

To understand this significance, you have to consider what the intelligence community was trying to achieve as it seeded grants to the best computer-science minds in academia: The CIA and NSA funded an unclassified, compartmentalized program designed from its inception to spur the development of something that looks almost exactly like Google. Brin’s breakthrough research on page ranking by tracking user queries and linking them to the many searches conducted—essentially identifying “birds of a feather”—was largely the aim of the intelligence community’s MDDS program. And Google succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

Posted by: Down South | Oct 30 2020 15:39 utc | 24

Hunter Biden’s activities have been known for years yet swept under the rug. Any preemptive opposition research Democrats conducted into Biden would have raised huge red flags. But they chose to foist the sclerotic, empty suit on the American people anyway.

Now the chickens have come home to roost. Should Biden win, he will be immediately knee-capped, like Trump was with the RussiaGate incriminations.

Cui Bono? Certainly Republicans, who will flog this incessantly, making Benghazi look like a jaywalking crime. Others note that the intelligence services love to use information like this as leverage to nudge a President to conform to their desires. One would think that this would not be necessary since Biden, as head of the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, had to have been a trusted asset already, just like Pelosi who was a compliant, long serving member of the House Intelligence Community.

Since the NYPost article came too late to affect the election, and was suppressed by the liberal media, I expect its release was just a friendly reminder to Biden as to who is in charge. Should Biden show signs of independence, I expect the liberal media to magically discover the story, adding credibility to whatever Republicans will have been flogging. Otherwise Republicans will be just mocked or just ignored.

The Democratic establishment’s zeal in selecting a deeply compromised, underachieving candidate like Biden, who has a long history of eagerly rollIng over to have his belly rubbed by powerful interests, is a clear indication of the extent to which they have been corrupted and compromised.

Posted by: JohnH | Oct 30 2020 15:43 utc | 25

I believe Glen Greenwald was an important part of the demise of John Key as neoliberal Five Eyes leader in New Zealand, even though at first his appearance there was drummed down by the NZ media, and it well appeared to have defeated its purpose. Sometimes uncomfortable truths take a while to percolate, especially when they come from outside the country. (I know that from conversing with my own family there.) While the entire cache of the surveillance files has not been released, enough came out to let us know what was going on in our acceptance of internet communication and many aspects of the deep deep surveillance that was and is still going on.

The Intercept was a mixed bag from the getgo. The enticements must have been hard to resist, even though I like many others could never find a comfortable home there. And there are many news conveyers we will have to forgive for past transgressions they may not feel bold enough to admit. Actions do speak louder than words,but words verify actions. And no one, least of all those who only comment, should fault those who belatedly turn away from what we all abhor. We were all like that once. It has taken me till now to forgive Matt Taibbi for his advocacy of Obama in 2012. I haven't read his pieces since. Now, with Greenwald making a similar move, and in light of Glenn's past heroism as I consider that period, I am hopeful it is a sign that we are not alone.

[PS. Although b's prior post of the russiagate Wall Street shows yet another obfuscation of responsibility, I thought it also a sign of significant backtracking with respect to relations with Russia. That has to be a weakening of the iron curtain stance, even if only a very slight quiver at the edge. We should remember that russiagate helped Putin solidify support in his own country, and I suspect elsewhere as well.]

Posted by: juliania | Oct 30 2020 16:11 utc | 26

Well over 90% of the Snowden archive will never appear in public and we will never know what is in them this is entirely due to the actions of Glenn Greenwald Bazos and Omidyar are just business men acting for their own interests.
Posted by: Babyl-on | Oct 30 2020 14:15 utc | 13

Don't fret.
Snowden and his NSA files are all in the safest of safe places - aka Russia. Putin has been critical of Snowden's decision to collect NSA files instead of simply resigning from the NSA (Part 2 of Oliver Stone's Putin Interviews). However, the Yankee person who made the decision to strand Snowden in Russia, by cancelling his travel documents, should be awarded the Nobel Prize for Irony...

I'm 100% certain that Russia's security services have read all 40 or 50,000 files and have ranked and categorised them. I'm also certain that possession of the Snowden/NSA files is the reason Putin laughs off US 'sanctions'.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 30 2020 16:21 utc | 27

Dont matter.. Trump will lose and big. The american people are fed up with annoying and tired buffoon. Like I said 2 months ago in this same board. This election is a plebicite about Trump. He is like a CBS show about to cancel after the 4th season

Posted by: Nick | Oct 30 2020 16:28 utc | 28

Posted by: Down South | Oct 30 2020 15:39 utc | 24

Have you ever read the definitive article on the CIA creating Google? That was published in 2015, two years before the article you linked to. Thanks for that link, by the way, I hadn't seen it before.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 30 2020 16:28 utc | 29

thanks for your work b.... i have always admired glenn g's writing from way back to the early days.. i wasn't all that impressed with the intercept move, but people change.. i welcome this change and wish him much success... he is one of the writers, along with a short list - that i do admire for speaking truth to power... they are few and far between...

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2020 16:37 utc | 30

i see emptywheel had the usual knee jerk reaction... that cluster fuck sure is a sorry state of affairs...

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2020 16:38 utc | 31

I did go and read the link to Taibbi's piece in b's account. As I said above, actions speak louder than words,but words verify actions. I was happy with the piece until this extract:

"...These intelligence community leaders only a few short years ago served an administration that sought a “reset” with the systematic human rights violator that was Vladimir Putin’s Russia, a country then-President Obama dismissed throughout his tenure as a “regional power” that acts “not out of strength, but out of weakness.” The consistent posture of the Obama administration — the Obama-Biden administration — was that Russia ranked far below terrorists as a potential threat to the United States.

After 2016, however, these officials presented themselves as norms-defending heroes protecting America against the twin “existential” threats of Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin..."

I will continue to stay away from Taibbi. He has the wrong meme about Russia, and that is important to me.

Posted by: juliania | Oct 30 2020 16:40 utc | 32

I tried reading The Intercept once but they were the usual Western BS, attacking Syria, calling Assad a dictator and so on. Never went back. This is ONLy news simply because GG's article is anti-Biden. Most people who mention it have either never read the Intercept or they parrot the West Anti-Russia, ant-China propaganda.
Sorry, but this isnt news.

Posted by: Hoyeru | Oct 30 2020 16:42 utc | 33

I am sooo glad I did not choose journalism as a career.
It must be painful for an idealistic journalism student to
graduate from college and then discover they have to sell
their idealistic souls if they want to work in the MSM.

Posted by: librul | Oct 30 2020 16:46 utc | 34

RSH @ 29

I have read it and funnily enough that was the article I was looking for in order to reply to dh-mtl but I obviously must have used the wrong keywords whilst searching for it.

Thanks for posting it. Essential reading!

Posted by: Down South | Oct 30 2020 16:49 utc | 35

A striking difference between Glenn Greenwald and other journalists who were able to obtain similar high salaries in journalism is that he really never seemed to waiver in his professional ethics as a journalist. Amy Goodman is probably an acceptable model for what the purchasers of the Intercept would have preferred Greenwald to become, but he continuously fought to keep his independent voice, which printed things he believed to be crucial information for the world whether they were received warmly by the owner class or not. I am actually surprised Glenn was not pushed out of the Intercept earlier once the sale went underway, or that the Intercept was not rebranded with some wacky style a'la Fox News or the Epoch Times to quickly discredit itself.

One of these days a major publication will take root that does not eventually cave in and sell the business for loads of money, but I imagine if the founders of the Intercept did not take the "hush money", then the paper would have been made to fold through outside pressures.

Joe Rogan is a fascinating case study for this sort of free press at the moment, although I don't view his program. I think Rogan will slowly be sanitized in much the way the Intercept was slowly sanitized, but I am hopeful that Glenn Greenwald is able to move into a new productive endeavour, perhaps founding a new outlet or at least maintaining his voice in a better space.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 30 2020 16:55 utc | 36

Instagram pauses 'recent' search listings on U.S. site to stop fake election news

Posted by: Down South | Oct 30 2020 16:55 utc | 37

Before Greenwald's resignation, it was obvious to me, the intel community was in a full court press to dominate, not only the media which they already owned, but also our congress. Just look at how many candidates with CIA history recently ran for public office. It's also obvious the the recent rioting is sponsored by the CIA, though cleverly concealed, through George Soros. The coming election is the most important one in the history of the USA. And that's saying something. For the simple reason that the left, if put in power, will promote censorship, CRT, vaccines, and UN agendas like the Green New Deal. All of them and more are designed to enslave the population more than ever before.

Posted by: joetv | Oct 30 2020 17:01 utc | 38

Here is a "keeper" I kept from Glenn Greenwald:

(context - night/day before 2016 California Primary the MSM collude to manipulate and interfere in an election, the MSM declared Clinton the winner over Bernie for the nomination and thus no one need show up on primary day unless they wanted to register a meaningless protest vote for Bernie)

"This is the perfect symbolic ending to the Democratic Party primary: The nomination is consecrated by a media organization, on a day when nobody voted, based on secret discussions with anonymous establishment insiders and donors whose identities the media organization — incredibly — conceals. The decisive edifice of superdelegates is itself anti-democratic and inherently corrupt: designed to prevent actual voters from making choices that the party establishment dislikes. But for a party run by insiders and funded by corporate interests, it’s only fitting that its nomination process ends with such an ignominious, awkward, and undemocratic sputter."

compare the above MSM election interference to the "Facebook posts by Russians"
being mindful, of course, of the interference we are witnessing these last few days by the mass censorship of the Biden Laptop evidence

Posted by: librul | Oct 30 2020 17:16 utc | 39

From Greenwald's piece on the Bidens:

The Washington Post on Sunday published an op-ed -- by Thomas Rid, one of those centrists establishmentarian professors whom media outlets routinely use to provide the facade of expert approval for deranged conspiracy theories -- that contained this extraordinary proclamation: "We must treat the Hunter Biden leaks as if they were a foreign intelligence operation — even if they probably aren't."

I've read Thomas Rid before. He's an infosec guy. He's very big on "Russia hacked the DNC". I don't usually agree with his points precisely because he believes attribution of hacks based on circumstantial evidence is a valid approach. So the quote attributed to him by Greenwald doesn't surprise me in the least.

I've read Greenwald since his days at Salon. The two things that has always impressed me about his writings: 1) he appears to have intellectual integrity, meaning his concern is to be factually correct in what he writes - something 99 percent of people don't do (as witnessed repeatedly here by commenters who think assertions are evidence); and 2) his writing and speech are very precise, apparently something gained from having been a lawyer. I don't always agree with his assessments of things (e.g., he believes Assad did do chemical attacks during the Syrian civil war), but in general I've found him to be persuasive on most matters he writes about. I look forward to continuing reading his stuff.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 30 2020 17:25 utc | 40

@james (31)

Marcy Wheeler (emptywheel) was and remains the high priestess of Russiagate BS. Rachel Maddow probably gets much of her material directly from Wheeler's blog. It's no wonder that Wheeler is pathetically dumping on Glenn Greenwald, as he was one of the few independent-minded journalists who assiduously demolished the Russiagate edifice she (and others) built. Sore losers remain bitter forever.

Much the same can be said of "The Intercept's" editors, though I do believe that the site still posts some valuable pieces. Readers have to be selective.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 30 2020 17:32 utc | 41

@34 librul

It is fairly obvious in the first year of undergraduate studies as a journalism student that information is controlled by money via advertisement and ownership, hence the information is edited to benefit moneyed interests and all outlets that will pay you when you graduate are a part of those interests. Within your first year these ideas are made abundantly clear to you and most people interested in journalism are savvy enough to realize that they aren't going to get paid to be Glenn Greenwald before they reach senior year.

Pretty much all journalism students have to accept this before they graduate. Those that somehow remain blissfully unaware of this are the ones who move quickly up the ranks once hired and are also the ones that were never going to be Glenn Greenwald in the first place.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 30 2020 17:36 utc | 42

great "keeper" librul - thanks!

Posted by: spudski | Oct 30 2020 17:37 utc | 43

@ rob... thanks.. i was unaware of that... emptywheel's website is an echo chamber...

Posted by: james | Oct 30 2020 17:39 utc | 44

Perhaps the hardest thing for any writer to preserve is their independence, for unless you have independent wealth (and that in itself can render you suspect) you need to get an income from somewhere since we live in a cash economy with no basic stipend. As for Greenwald, I stopped reading him several years ago. As for journalists and journalism, I have a very basic question: Why is telling/seeking Truth deemed Leftist/Radical? IMO, being truthful ought to be considered a politically Neutral or Conservative Value since liars come dressed in every political hue. It seems to me that the one great downfall of Liberalism is its failure to value Truth and Truth Telling as it's most important aspects. Thus any writer incapable of being truthful isn't worth spending finite time to read--credibility is the #1 asset for all people but especially those we need to trust.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 30 2020 17:48 utc | 45

@45 karlof1

'Why is telling/seeking Truth deemed Leftist/Radical? IMO, being truthful ought to be considered a politically Neutral or Conservative Value since liars come dressed in every political hue.'

It reminds of that Ben Franklin quote 'A man who would live in peace should not speak all he knows or all he sees' (I am sure I missed the exact wording just a bit).

Franklin knew the power of information and especially how the powerful liked to control information. There are likely many other older quotes in this regard. The idea of truth being taboo likely is as old as language.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 30 2020 17:54 utc | 46

The Intercept is going to have a hard time whitewashing their viewpoints, positions, and arguments without people of integrity and honesty among them. Hopefully, Mr. Greenwald is able to do some good without the constraints of censorship, which the corporate payroll cabal foists upon everyone.
I wish him success, and I wish him well.

Posted by: Josh | Oct 30 2020 18:02 utc | 47

I agree with those that respect what GG has done but still harbor some misgivings about GG's real motivation in the past and currently.....

I also would like to see the rest of Snowden's dump and assume that if Snowden thought it was important enough to share then it is important enough for all of us to see and consider.

I think about GG like I think about Bernie Sanders.......potential serious sheep dog syndrome in action.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 30 2020 18:28 utc | 48

"Snowden and his NSA files are all in the safest of safe places - aka Russia."

Snowden made clear early on that he did not take any files with him when he left Hong Kong, that he handed them all over to Greenwald and Laura Poitras. I find this believable, as it was not in his interest to keep any of the files if he wished to ever have a chance to return to the U.S. His whole point was to release the files to the public, and the journalists he gave them to were in the best position to do that.

Of course Snowden was smeared by the intelligence agencies as probably turning the files over to Putin, etc. It is in THEIR interest to portray Snowden as a cynical adventurer, out for what he can get by using the files. By keeping the public focused on such allegations, they distract attention from the contents of the files, which do not reflect well on those agencies and their attitude towards the American public.

Posted by: R.A. | Oct 30 2020 18:30 utc | 49

Another thought I have about the Biden revelations is that if Biden wins this story will potentially take him out early and force him to hand the reins over to Harris which was the Deep Democrat plan all along.

Remember, there is only one party, the money party and both the blue and red are in it up to their eyeballs.

One can only hope that if Trump wins that the Biden corruption, as it comes out more and more, will signal the death knell of the current blue part of the money party.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 30 2020 19:06 utc | 50

Greenwald is basically a conservative in the sense he believes nonsense about how politics and society work. It appears a lot of his nuttiness is due to believing BS about the "Deep State" and he's up in arms about the suppression of a Biden scandal. The problem for him as a journalist---actually, as a human being pretending to have a mind---is that the scandal has to be about what Hunter Biden and Joe Biden said to each other, not what Hunter Biden said to Ukrainians. Either Hunter didn't correspond with Joe, which is circumstantial evidence for Joe's innocence (yes it would be!) or it's been suppressed, which is why the shady provenance of the laptop is such a big deal.

The Steele dossier should never have been a story and should have been ignored by the mass media and Trump-lovers can honestly complain about how it wasn't. But what they can't do is honestly complain about a non-story that favors them (and that was artfully arranged by them to boot!) Getting psycho about the Deep State censoring the media is as ludicrous as the malignant paranoia that turns influence peddling (generally designed to be "legal" in a corrupt system) into "Treason!" That's just hack propaganda at best and raving lunacy at worst.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 30 2020 19:20 utc | 51

downsouth@24, RSH@29, thanks for the links.

From the article referenced by RSH@29, I found this:

'In sum, the investment firm (Goldman Sachs) responsible for creating the billion dollar fortunes of the tech sensations of the 21st century, from Google to Facebook, is intimately linked to the US military intelligence community; with Venables, Lee and Friedman either directly connected to the Pentagon Highlands Forum, or to senior members of the Forum'.

So, we have the 'military intelligence community' (MIC) funding and overseeing the creation of the technology, then providing the seed funding to launch these 'Tech Unicorns', including Google, Facebook, Amazon (Tesla, Uber, etc.?), using U.S. Gov. resources, then in collaboration with 'intimately linked' investment firms pump the stock prices to obscene evaluations, making the top people in the MIC no small personal fortunes, while creating virtual monopolies in information, communication and strategic technology sectors.

And these monopoly companies are fully under control of the MIC, since what can be 'pumped' can also be 'dumped'. No wonder the 'journalists' and employees of these 'Tech Unicorns' and their related companies dance to the tune of the MIC.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Oct 30 2020 19:27 utc | 52

Hopefully this site will learn something from this event as well in regards to coronavirus censorship.

Posted by: Joe | Oct 30 2020 19:28 utc | 53

Biden helped organize the overthrow of a democratically elected government and then used or allowed to be used the results to enrich his family. Regardless of legalities, if that isn't corruption I don't know what is. It doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Oct 30 2020 19:32 utc | 54

I think GG is a bit naive in general. He writes: "As it deteriorated and abandoned its original mission, I reasoned to myself — perhaps rationalized — that as long as The Intercept at least continued to provide me the resources to personally do the journalism I believe in, and never to interfere in or impede my editorial freedom, I could swallow everything else."

He definitely rationalized it. The rot in the Intercept was almost immediate--in 2015 and 2016 in the run-up to the election, Robert Mackey wrote dozens of utterly ridiculous, fact-free articles for the purpose of pro-Clinton/anti-Trump. This would perhaps fit GG's vision of independence, but the kicker is that so many commentators commented corrections to his lies and called him out that [I assume Betsy Reed] eventually actually disabled comments. That's beyond a free marketplace of ideas. GG should've resigned then when it was obvious that stooges like Mackey and Risen were being pampered by Reed.

"Finally" and "it's about time" were my reactions. And for a couple years now I've held GG in a bit of contempt for continuing to be affiliated with that rag. And his excuses didn't fly. He also continually praised Betsy Reed, which is bizarre.

Hope his new endeavor takes off. I don't think he should start any group effort though--again, he's naive and a bit spineless and would just be used again like a dumb puppet or leashed dog. Stick to a solo act.

Posted by: Hippo Dave | Oct 30 2020 19:47 utc | 55

Bemilded #19

"they are up to something"

The Harris presidency I presume. It is time for the switch as the bait is rotten.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 30 2020 19:53 utc | 56

I would be interested in hearing views on Jeremy Scahill in context to this.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Oct 30 2020 20:00 utc | 57

Now that Glenn Greenwald is free of The Intercept, a good question to ask is what sort of independent reporting he'll do. Having an independent blog as so many others do seems obvious but unless GG is prepared to sell his articles to other independent blogs or allow them to republish his work, he will have limited exposure and will have to depend on a very loyal readership who can persuade others to read his work. He will need to pursue donation drives if and when he faces litigation for writing critical pieces or if his partner David Miranda is targeted again by intel forces over something GG writes or does.

As Bevin @ 7 suggests, some form of co-operative endeavour, like a collective where writers can pool their resources and use that pool as collateral to get legal advice and other assistance to support their writing and earn income, is needed. I assume GG already belongs to a journalists' union or association in Brazil. The next step, if he has not already contemplated doing so, would be to form a co-op with other writers in Brazil, Portugal, Angola and Mozambique (nations with Portuguese as their official language) to report on issues in their regions and develop into something similar to TeleSur and The funding would have to come from writers themselves and the readerships they bring with them.

It would be a surprise if The Grayzone hasn't already offered GG a gig along lines similar to what The Intercept should have done for GG in the first place. Although on second thought I suppose The Grayzone probably don't need him and his reputation and any baggage he carries could well overshadow their writers and their work.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 30 2020 20:02 utc | 58

Posted while I was typing psychohistorian@50 "One can only hope that if Trump wins that the Biden corruption, as it comes out more and more, will signal the death knell of the current blue part of the money party." Why? How ever could anyone delude themselves into thinking one party rule on a national level, in addition to the many states/districts which are de facto one party rule already, is a Good Thing? It's bad enough that the two parties are basically Ins. vs. Outs, but uncontested rule means they gang up against the rest of us! If it's all get along to go along, there will be no incentive to give even crumbs to the people at large, nor even to adhere to the common decencies. (Of course a lot of Trumpery is about a sadistic glee in the uncommon indecencies.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 30 2020 20:04 utc | 59

After listening Greenwald with Tucker show, I am convinced that he was indeed a gatekeeper for the NSA to hide its documents from public.

Greenwald is not complaining about security services doing what security services do but rather he complains that they participate in domestic politics. I also find him being untouchable in Brazil quite suspicious as we all know how much Brazilian thugs care about rule of law. I think NSA still owes him a favour and affords him protection in Brazil.

Posted by: kemerd | Oct 30 2020 20:06 utc | 60

@ steven t johnson | Oct 30 2020 20:04 utc | 59 who seems to have misinterpreted my comment.

The only one party rule I am in favor of has secular as its base, sovereign control of finance and is bottom up representative of the populace. I, unfortunately, continue to be loosely associated with faith breathers of the blue pill side of the money party and I strongly want to see the blue party exposed for the perversion of democracy it represents.

I want to see public finance in the US and globally to take the punch bown away from the perverts that never learned to share in grade school and shouldn't have been allowed to advance until they did.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 30 2020 20:19 utc | 61

Whitney Webb has her own site here at unlimited hangout.

Whitney Webb is one mighty good journalist and deserves to mentioned in the same breath as Yves Smith. Whitney is fearless, Smith - comfortable and middle class.

There is no need to endure the bloviating cringe of the last american vagabond. But good luck to him and his investigations too. I sometimes imagine what he will be like when he gets as old and crotchetty as Pat Lang. I'd like to see that :))

Greenwald's next few posts will indicate his credibility or otherwise.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 30 2020 20:52 utc | 62

I am unforgiving. The Intercept's disgraceful reporting on Syria and its continual support of White Helmet bullshit ought to have prompted any journalist with a modicum of integrity to have resigned from that outfit years ago.

Greenwald seems to have adopted the position that "I founded Intercept and have say-so on what distorted bullshit we publish and so How Dare You not publish my bullshit when I chose to tell the truth?"

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Oct 30 2020 20:54 utc | 63

Guy Thornton #63

Yes I am inclined that way too. Perhaps there has been a takeover at the Intercept if he has a contract exempted from editorial interference and then that exemption ignored. Perhaps the CIA tem need to be shot of him and will leave it to Bolsonaro and thugees to clean house?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 30 2020 20:59 utc | 64

@60 I'm actually surprised GG is still alive. He and his partner, David Miranda, have got a lot of powerful political enemies in Brazil....not least Bolsonaro. I can't see them having CIA protection 24/7.

Posted by: dh | Oct 30 2020 21:02 utc | 65

DH @ 65:

Perhaps all the dogs GG and David Miranda shelter - last I heard, they were supposedly sheltering 100 homeless dogs at their Rio de Janeiro home but that figure is likely exaggerated - do a much better job than having 24/7 CIA protection.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 30 2020 21:21 utc | 66

JohnH @25 write

The Democratic establishment’s zeal in selecting a deeply compromised, underachieving candidate like Biden, who has a long history of eagerly rollIng over to have his belly rubbed by powerful interests, is a clear indication of the extent to which they have been corrupted and compromised.

If Biden is elected it will be a clear indication of the extent to which American voters have been corrupted and compromised.

But I don't think Biden is going to win.

I think the whole purpose of the Democrats putting up a rotting mackerel as a candidate is to help trump get four more years in the White House and I believe they will succeed. Do you really think the oligarchs want the candidate who is promising to tax the piss out of corporations and everyone who makes more than $400K/year or do you think the oligarchs want the guy who gave that group huge tax cuts?

The US electoral system is rigged and has been for centuries and anyone who believes this election it is rigged in favor of Biden is an idiot.

If trump loses the only reason he loses will be because of a virus. That was the one thing the oligarchs were unable to control. The last 2 days have both been all time record highs for new covid cases in the US while Wuhan has not had a new case in 4 months. That is how bad the US has managed the pandemic.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 30 2020 22:33 utc | 67

karlof1 | Oct 30 2020 17:48 utc | 45

I have a very basic question: Why is telling/seeking Truth deemed Leftist/Radical? IMO, being truthful ought to be considered a politically Neutral or Conservative Value since liars come dressed in every political hue.

Surely, the reason for that is that the left is primarily about the welfare of the majority (or should be, anyway.) So they can afford to be factual and truthful, when talking to the majority. The right, on the other hand, is about protecting ruling class privilege and so has to disguise what they are doing under various sorts of lies, when talking to the same audience.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Oct 30 2020 22:38 utc | 68

psychohistorian @50--

That's an excellent insight--Biden's corruption will fuel an Impeachment drive resulting in his conviction or invocation of the 25 Amendment that would crown Harris as a very unelected and likely extremely unpopular POTUS--"very" because she dropped out long before the Convention, had a very small following, and was destroyed in the initial debates. The only ones desiring Harris as POTUS are the Parasitic Puppeteers.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 30 2020 22:45 utc | 69


Posted by: Jayne | Oct 30 2020 22:53 utc | 70

@Richard Steven Hack 29

thanks for the link.

Self censorship is even worse than censorship by omission. Both are routine 'Western' MSM procedure and are done on auto-pilot. There are no prizes for guessing which side the MSM are backing in the middle east and it is not impartial black letter international law. Where else do they applaud the thief for keeping the stolen property?

Posted by: Paul | Oct 30 2020 22:54 utc | 71

Biden helped organize the overthrow of a democratically elected government and then used or allowed to be used the results to enrich his family. Regardless of legalities, if that isn't corruption I don't know what is. It doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted by: Michael Weddington | Oct 30 2020 19:32 utc | 54

It reminds me when I was in a line of cheese department 40+ years ago in Warsaw, Poland, and there was a very irate customer. According to his words, he bought a piece of cheese that he did not know, but after unwrapping, it stank to high heaven and was TOTALLY rotten, not on the edges but all the way through. Sales lady refused to refund the purchase, and with the help of customers from the line argued that the cheese was exactly as it was supposed to be (local version of Roquefort). That enraged the guy even more.

We are deep in blue cheese territory. You may hope that some stinking molds are not toxic -- at worst, some vomiting and headaches. Actually, electing and impeaching Biden (and finding him innocent because of the lack of mental capacity) could be the best scenario (if not realistic).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 30 2020 23:08 utc | 72

I see two barflies have responded to my question, Rutherford82 @46 & foolisholdman @68, and thanks to them for tackling that very slippery concept: Truth. In writing, there's verisimilitude, one of several literary devices used to bend Truth. Then there's veracity, which at first glance looks solid yet still erodes. Then of course there're the many wonderful synonyms for Truth like accuracy as with polls where there's a margin for error that're still declared accurate. And we all know about the facts called statistics.

My little exposition is to show that Truth can very easily be morphed into something it wasn't and many writers become professionals at doing just that, and we read them daily, particularly here at MoA. I thought Walt Disney's best story was Pinocchio; but at the time Walt was living a lie while trying to extol Truth. Wasn't one of 1984's themes Truth being turned inside-out? Why are publications and other media that lie daily still in business when they have zero credibility? What does that say about our society and where its morals are located? How do we teach our children to be honest truth tellers when as parents we lie to them quite early and readily--Christmas, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, real reason for Thanksgiving, and so forth?

Truth seems to be a very difficult concept to be consistent with and act upon. Brings up the ultimate question: Are humans capable of being completely moral; and if not, then is that goal impossible or is there a way? Do Bonobo's lie?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 30 2020 23:25 utc | 73

One concern I have for Glenn is that his platform for reaching an audience will be much smaller than it was with “The Intercept.” I do not doubt that he will have a large number of subscribers (I have already signed up), but his reach will be shorter. I expect him to have a new podcast fairly soon.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 30 2020 23:39 utc | 74

@73 karlof1

You have poignant words about truth that I have little to add to, but certainly appreciate.

As far as incredulous media institutions remaining in business, that boils down to a failure of leadership. Who determines who owns these media institutions if not the most powerful and influential leaders in society? And most consumers of such media are happy to consume unquestioningly with such a wide variety to choose from. You can't fault people for finding media flavors they really enjoy even if that media tells them constant lies. It is the owners of the media responsible for the content distributed.

'Are humans capable of being completely moral; and if not, then is that goal impossible or is there a way?'

This is more difficult to answer. Without immorality, would morality even exist? Deep stuff here. Change it from 'humans' to 'leaders' and I think there may be some discussion to be had.

I have often thought about how children develop differently due to so many lies in life, some of them to protect the children in various respects, and wondered if an alternative was any better. I don't think we can eliminate lying from society, so I think it's better to be honest with the children at the right age and tell them that adults tell lies for reasons. It would be easier to do this if Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny weren't ubiquitous ideas among children.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 30 2020 23:55 utc | 75

1. Greenwald is a waste of time no matter who he claims to work for or not. If he's supposed to be a friend then no one needs any enemies.

2. Snowden seems happy and satisfied that his own leak was mostly contained (essentially he asked for it), at least in the mainstream narrative he wanted to sound the alarm and not much more and he achieved that. That narrative might not conform to reality, there doesn't seem to be anything to gain by deciding if it does or not

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 31 2020 0:11 utc | 76

Posted by: R.A. | Oct 30 2020 18:30 utc | 49
"Snowden made clear early on that he did not take any files with him when he left Hong Kong, that he handed them all over to Greenwald and Laura Poitras. "

So who will reveal the truths contained in the Snowden files now? Now that he is again "independent" will Glen do more with this huge haul or not? As for Ms Poitras is she done dumping on the real resistance or what? If something doesn't happen soon they will most certainly look like two cuckoos in the warblers nest.

Posted by: corkie | Oct 31 2020 0:28 utc | 77

Rutherford82 @75--

Thanks for your thoughtful reply! Yes, admittedly prevarication is a very big problem that I see negating any possibility of building a Good Society. Certainly there were taboos generated as a way to protect the young and innocent until they grew mature enough to be told why they needed to be protected. But a parent today has to beat back society when it comes to the many contrived commercial invasions like Santa Claus or the one happening tomorrow, Halloween. Then there's the demand that siblings share but when at school and on TV children are taught not to share but to be selfish. See how rapidly parental authority is undermined and deviance is promoted. What's worse is children grow up not valuing Truth--look at Trump or Biden! Yet I don't recall the issue of Truth and Fabrication being mentioned in any sociological or psychological study I've read about our society(ies). Too bad Vulcans don't actually exist so we can ask them how they purged lying on the way to logic. Perhaps if humanity can overcome itself and double the amount of time it's been a species--6 million more years--it will by then have found a way to always value Truth.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 31 2020 0:32 utc | 78

Good to see the skeptical commentary about gg and Taibbi.

However, IMO skeptics don't go far enough. About gg, Taibbi, or US politics.

How is it possible that gg (and so many others) fail to see the series of "October surprises" - some of which appeared in late September - that the Democratic and Republican tag team has thrown our way?

  • Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

    Sorry, but this is so contrived - USA has enormous leverage over the States normalizing relations with Israel and Trump has been belligerent in other areas;

  • Trump Defeats Covid-19'

    Sorry, but there are good reasons to believe that Trump never had Covid-19;

  • Pelosi blocks stimulus (while Biden is mostly mum)

    Sorry, but this Pelosi standing on principle is laughable and she's only making Trump look generous;

  • The Hunter laptop

    Sorry, but it only tangentially implicates Biden AND the embarrassing info released so far is unlikely to lead to any prosecutions (is that all ya' got? LOL) PLUS the strange coincidence of Weiner's laptop in 2016 is hardly ever mentioned;

  • Social Media Partisanship - Censoring of the Hunter laptop!

    Sorry, but this defies logic. The Deep State reveals it's heavy hand in favor of the Democrats? C'mon. They control BOTH Parties.

But there's more! Why did the Democrats nominate another Hillary-like Centrist with lots of baggage? Why did Sanders fold like a cheap suit AGAIN? Why did Pelosi lead the impeachment farce? Why are the Democrats still banging the Russiagate drum? Etc.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Anyone that can't see what's going on is an idiot or in-on-it (I count the brainwashed as somewhere in between).

Sticking with my prediction: Trump in a landslide - including the popular vote - so as to make Trump America's 'Glorious leader' with massive support for what ever war USA/Empire is forced to fight (oh so regrettable, oh so necessary).


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 31 2020 1:29 utc | 79

@75 karlof1

Making profit rewards lying, almost at every occurrence. This is how it creeps into the media, which is wholly owned by profit makers, and the repercussions of this are entire cultural holiday rituals revolving around the desires of lying profit makers. Still, I have fun at Halloween and Christmas.

The one great aspect of Truth is that it very much relative, so one can find a happy existence with Truth even in a society awash in fabricated existence. And yet it does seem society should expect more from everyone if we wish to make a more harmonious existence.

And yet many in life don't want to know cold truths. Many want to live in a happy bubble and I especially think they want to raise children in that same bubble. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Posted by: Rutherford82 | Oct 31 2020 1:33 utc | 80

He might be back but one thing is for sure. You have no integrity. John Ianonidis Stanford University Giulio Tarro Ex Sapienza University.

Posted by: falcemartello | Oct 31 2020 1:39 utc | 81

I can t forget that Glenn greenwald was the one who finally had the guts to throw light and then shatter to pcs the whole net of criminal lawfare called 'lavajato'.
Also here of course the stinky hands of the US Justice Dept has played an important role.
This second rate immitation of the Italian Mani Pulite process was responsible for the destruction of nearly a million jobs, he atmosphere of hatred in society the political expurgation of former president Lula da Silva ... and the worst of all evils, the election of this worldwide fascist monster called Bolsonaro.

Posted by: augusto | Oct 31 2020 1:50 utc | 82

I think "What is truth?" or similar questions are easier to deal with if you invert them, seek the absence of observable error and deception, including deceptive omissions. Once you leave the realm of observable reality you are necessarily in the realm of theory and opinion, not "truth". But even there you can at least expect relevant information to be disclosed. The dense fog of bullshit that we all endure here is not some inevitable act of nature, we can and should demand something better. Truth in advertising may be too much to demand, but no lies or relevant omissions is not. Our news media and political parties all claim the right to lie to us, our commercial "elites" base their business plans on deception, so the first thing to do is tune them all out, they are predatory swine.

Anyway, if wwe could achieve that much, I think we'd be doing great.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 31 2020 2:01 utc | 83

@ Bemildred | Oct 31 2020 2:01 utc | 83 with the inverted definition of Truth

Nicely put. One of the delusions of those of faith is that humans are some sort of Gods while reality shows us not knowing anything about 95% of the Cosmos we live in. If we had any sort of humility we would define truth using your "absence of observable error and deception, including deceptive omissions" much more.

You can serve the God of profit or the public commons but you can't serve both.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 31 2020 2:18 utc | 84

You are an excellent resource of factual information.
Your opinions are generally highly rational and carry weight.
You challenge "authority".

For these reasons I send "digital green" support when you appeal from time to time.

Your diligence as a loner is testimony to your character. You work as hard as anyone on this planet who strives to investigate, probe and report the truth.

Most all of us don't know you personally, but value you beyond friendship. You are a sentinel of freedom.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Oct 31 2020 2:36 utc | 85

Yuriy Lutsenko must be the primary carpetbagger to transfer Ukraine and IMF funds to the nearest, convenient offshore storage. I guess the tax haven of choice must have been Delaware.

Thanks b for the story and the links.

Might turn out to have been a high price to pay for fracturing Ukraine/Russian associations. If Biden wins could he do us all a nice drive by in Dallas?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 31 2020 2:48 utc | 86

Even the most strident partisan can admit that GG has left the plantation and been silenced.
Matt Taibbi will reach that point, maybe.
Aaron Matte is close.
Jimmy Dore already left.

Conservatives and liberals alike, appreciate when left wing voices express their frustrations with mass media silencing and influence.
It’s a good thing.

Posted by: Cadence calls | Oct 31 2020 2:52 utc | 87

On the day after we learn that more than 50% of kiwis believe they have the right to tell fellow citizens they cannot ingest pot for fun, but give a mob of anonymous doctors the power to determine who should get put down like a past it's best before date household 'pet', I have to say the Greenwald saga hasn't done anything to restore my faith in humanity.

There is so much hypocrisy and self delusion getting pushed out by people who have an obvious conflict of interest, something that is blatantly obvious sure. What I cannot stand though is those who rip into Greenwald for no reason other than he doesn't hold exactly the same views on every issue as they do.
Whether it be those who claim the "real good stuff" of Snowden has never been released, despite the fact that Mr Snowden has never called Greenwald or the Intercept out for that when he would know or that Greenwald hasn't criticised zionism sufficiently, the Reality Winner saga, or whatever, I just don't see how any of those issues relate to Greenwald's point on this.

Greenwald is trying to illustrate exactly how corrupted the corporate media is, how that corruption isn't just down to some fat arse on the top floor issuing orders, it is also down to the self censorship of a twisted culture which journalists subscribe to.
That issue is a big one I have tried to broach it here several times using the example of my brother a tv journo who has worked all over this old rock on many well known news & current affairs tv shows. I spent enough time with him and his colleagues to see how insidious the process is. A sort of mutual backscratching club forms where a common view on what the truth of an issue is, is decided, everyone sticks to that POV otherwise they must be an idiot or nazi, or commie or whatever. He's been retired for a few years so most of this was about whether you could walk into any newsroom anywhere in the world and swap war stories with other 'seasoned' correspondents while the junior talent laps it up, but he did get into the twitter thing in the final years of his work and that has exponentially increased the power and the size of the journo clique.

As Greenwald says in his talk with Joe Rogan, it wasn't fear of losing their jobs which motivated the Intercept editors to censor him, it was fear of being 'deplatformed' by their colleagues & alleged friends, for the crime of aiding trump.
We see it here sometimes when a comment about biden's unsuitability for being prez is immediately re-interpreted by some as being 'pro trump' when it is nothing of the kind.
I was sad to see Matt Taibi & Katie Halper fall into that trap last week when right at the end of their podcast they both said something along the lines of "If I lived in a marginal state I guess I would have to hold my nose and tick biden".

Oh one other thing. Greenwald pointed out on Joe Rogan that it was the DC dim hacks & msnbc enablers who first raised issues about Biden's cognitive decline back in the early days of the dims primary.
Greenwald reckons they were terrified he would win because a normal campaign would have exposed him for sure, the pandemic created space for the dims machine to design a 'stay at home campaign'. No I do not believe the two are linked in some sort of massive conspiracy, just that it was an opportunity to be taken advantage of, they would have come up with something else if the pandemic hadn't occurred. That is the number 1 task of political operatives - to imagine, develop and deliver seemingly unique ways to deceive the citizens.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 31 2020 3:45 utc | 88

thanks debs... watching the joe rogan show now... 3 hours.. who has the time to sit thru something that long?? cheers...

Posted by: james | Oct 31 2020 4:38 utc | 89

joetv @ 38
Just look at how many candidates with CIA history recently ran for public office.

Another interesting post Trump phenomenon. IT is explored here. All Democrats...

There are 57 candidates for the Democratic nomination (2018) in 44 congressional districts who boast as their major credential their years of service in intelligence, in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, at the State Department, or some combination of all three.

They have to very worried about the direction of the country to get their hands dirty like this in mere politics at the house level. WSWS draws some valid conclusions. It continues in 2020 with some moving into Senate races. It has the feel to me like they feel they are losing control and have to get involved.

Rob @41
It's no wonder that Wheeler is pathetically dumping on Glenn Greenwald, as he was one of the few independent-minded journalists who assiduously demolished the Russiagate edifice she (and others) built. Sore losers remain bitter forever.

Controlled opposition attacking each other to keep the informational Chaos and disinformation going full blast.

jinn @ 67
I think the whole purpose of the Democrats putting up a rotting mackerel as a candidate is to help trump get four more years in the White House and I believe they will succeed.

That has always been my suspicion. The deep insiders control the final vote tallies in a close election. We are that far gone and have been for many decades.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 31 2020 5:09 utc | 90

james # 89

Yeah I know what you mean. I got through two & a bit hours it was worth it just to hear their shared point of view on 'cancel culture' & deplatforming.
None of it is boring or irrelevant that could mainly be because I've been trying to avoid thinking about the referendum results which were entirely predictable, there is still that part of you that hopes against hope Jeremy Corbyn will win or bourgeoisie kiwis will decide if people want to smoke pot, then they should do so, or that there are plenty of ways now for people to knock themselves, encouraging bureaucrats to make the process even easier won't end well.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 31 2020 5:19 utc | 91

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 31 2020 2:18 utc | 84

Yes, thank you, a little humility goes a long way in these things. I think we are only modestly smart at best, and mostly filled with convenient delusions and social conventions that we mistake for "reality". It's not reality, it's us. What goes on in our little heads is certainly real but it is not ever reality. I don't want "The Truth", I just want a lot less bullshit and manipulative drivel. One thing I notice about guys like Putin is he does not toot his own horn all day long. He takes care of business and let's that do most of his talking. All these "narrative managers" is what we can do without.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 31 2020 5:26 utc | 92

So we have learned that virtue is a moving target.

We have learned that the lifetime span of any person can easily encompass many changes, including complete swings from one end of a spectrum to the other, and back again. And again.

We have learned that truth itself is the only thing that stands upright out of the shifting sands that we will always have to sift it from - every day, for every thing.

We have learned that people and things are not absolute, and that they must always be parsed afresh for each conclusion - each passing conclusion.


But what we have not quite learned yet is to give up judgments cast in the form of absolutes.

If we give up absolutes cast from relative terms, we do not need to fear that we will become weak. We will in each fleeting moment become strong instead, by parsing the truths of the time against their shifting contexts, and declaring for the truth.

Glenn Greenwald gave us, without knowing it, the gift of showing how people make their own decisions that take them away from our former allegiance, and perhaps never see this drift, caught up as they are in their own contexts. And they can even come back - or actually, return to join the new present, since the old present is gone. And only the future can show if they returned anywhere, or if we stayed in place to see it happen.


As for the question of if we the humans can change our character in order to live in a better world - our character was always made from this shifting sand. Shifting sand is all there is for any reality, except for the underlying nature of reality, which never changes, and is always constant.

The Buddhist teachings demonstrate these two things in logic that the world has never been able to surpass, not in any scheme of thought (or even faith) whatsoever, and any poor student such as myself - or you - can test this and verify this for oneself.

So this is the reality we find ourselves in, whether for good or for ill - but we can take this reality and understand that what we decide today changes the world we live in, and what we decide tomorrow changes it again. We can shift the sands as easily as we can be shifted by them.

And this is a cause for great optimism. We can change for the better, as easily as we change for the worse. Therefore, no one who cares about this is excused from the task of helping to create the change that suits one's idea of the better.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 31 2020 5:33 utc | 93

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 30 2020 23:25 utc | 73

There is no such thing as "truth". That's just another context-less buzzword people throw around to make themselves sound more virtuous than others. "Truth, Justice and the American Way"...yeah, right. All three terms are total BS.

There is factually correct and not factually correct. Period. If you want a rational definition of "truth", it probably would be something like "the conglomeration of facts of a given domain set in relation to each other in context."

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 31 2020 2:01 utc | 83 I think "What is truth?" or similar questions are easier to deal with if you invert them, seek the absence of observable error and deception, including deceptive omissions. Once you leave the realm of observable reality you are necessarily in the realm of theory and opinion, not "truth".

Agreed. Well said.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 31 2020 5:41 utc | 94

@ Grieved | Oct 31 2020 5:33 utc | 93 who wrote
So this is the reality we find ourselves in, whether for good or for ill - but we can take this reality and understand that what we decide today changes the world we live in, and what we decide tomorrow changes it again. We can shift the sands as easily as we can be shifted by them.

And this is a cause for great optimism. We can change for the better, as easily as we change for the worse. Therefore, no one who cares about this is excused from the task of helping to create the change that suits one's idea of the better.

Thank you for your thoughtful words. Now that I have joyfully healed from my traumatic brain injury and have been in my new home for almost 6 months I have applied for multiple advisory positions for the city and told them of my advocacy for public banking during an interview....if not now, when? Yes, we need to be the change we want to see up, be present, tell the truth and don't own the outcome.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 31 2020 6:00 utc | 95

smith @ Oct 30 2020 15:46 utc | 103

Need we bring up the nine-dash-line that viciously ignores international laws and is naked imperalism on China's neighbors?

Need we bring up China's perspective as it looks south to the areas in question?

Posted by: pogohere | Oct 31 2020 7:37 utc | 96

About Glen Greenwald - Snowden gave him and Laura poitras 1000s of NSA documents that the NSA didn't notice him taking. Consider the different outcomes of Julian Assange. Snowden In actopm movies would be very unlikely to safely make it to Russia. Especially if the Washington Post (main speaker for CIA propaganda) and the Guardian knew where he was and something of what he was up to. Just enough of snowden's documents get released to confirm that what the conspiracy world had been saying about the deep state spying on us was totally true as far as digital communications went. But what was in the thousands of other documents that we will never see. It appears that Greenwald gave them to the billionaire that financed the intercept because we then just stopped seeing any more of them. Laura poitras has a film made about her and gets award after award and what revelations have come from her. While Julian Assange...
It makes me wonder - was Snowden about letting us all know that the NSA hes every digital communication there is. Iphones and Gps tells them where most everybody is or goes. I'm not going into the ramifications of medical contract tracing brought about by the cult of corona.
Greenwald has done some good reporting. Llke every reporter who reports in the mainstream there are places he just doesn't go. Even Robert Parry who had to leave the mainstream media because of his reporting on the CIA cocaine involvement and H W Bush's October Surprise wouldn't touch the rabbit hole of 9/11. tens of millions every year are spent by the usual suspects to make sure it remains one.
I take reporters like Greenwald and Taibbi as reliable on the things they report on. I watched Aaron Mate go from Democracy Now to the Real news Network to the Grey Zone as his reporting clashes more and more with what the mainstream wants you to hear. Abby Martin continues to grow. I worry for Whitney Webb but I imagine she doesn't have a big enough audience for "them" to worry about her. I have james Corbetts reporting to be backed up when researched further. He goes many places that most all reporters don't go. I find b.s reporting to be reliable (we disagree on covid) but there are places he doesn't go either.

Posted by: gepay | Oct 31 2020 8:42 utc | 97

"Greenwald is a dangerous SOB… he is backed by powerful globalist left money, rich families (Soros' type), he is involved in criminal activities to produce his narrative, as he did in Brasil by dealing with rackers that were hired to break internal media/private texting of many Judges in Brazil, from the Supreme Court to the Car Wash team. The racking was hired and executed, paid by a network of people around him.

In another move, he placed his husband to be the replacement of a hardcore leftist for a Federal Representative position, and the deal was that the vote runner would "abdicate' alleging "persecution" from "ghost militias" so Glen's husband would assume the post and be protected with parlamentar immunity, and of course having access to a lot of information prime for Glen to boost on Intercept, and BTW, Intercept was financially involved in all dirty deals from Glen.

I can only sense his decision to leave Intercept as the same he did on Guardian, a patron must have put a lot of money for him to start a new "Intercept" like news channel. Glen has millions around the world the blindly believe on him due to Snowden case….millions have no idea how corrupt he is.

There is nothing wrong in being left or right…people are free to choose, my issue is that people are blind…totally blind…for me both left and right are the same nowadays…you can change the Gov label but the essence is the same, everywhere, so Glen does play the game for the deep pockets that run the world, thus he is directly involved with zionist of all sorts."

Posted by: Mia | Oct 31 2020 9:09 utc | 98

Anyone interested in a thorough critique of Greenwald in general and especially the Snowden-Intercept affair, check out this very good but unfortunately long dormant blog which was dedicated to the demolition of what the anarchist author calls the "celebrity left".

Posted by: Russ | Oct 31 2020 9:23 utc | 99

@32 Juliana.

A bit late on the scene, but I struggle to agree with you when you say: 'actions speak louder than words,but words verify actions.'

Quite frankly, I call that a load of unmitigated horse-shit.

I would not use the word 'verify', rather 'justify'. And far more often than not, that justification falls well short of apppropriate moral and principled reasons. Usually, it's because 'we did, not because we should, but because we could, since it made us richer or made our voters feel good about us. Both is better!'.

Actions speak far louder than words. To deny that is mendacious at best, that's what propagandists would rather have you think. Words are cheap and cost exactly nothing (excluding legally slanderous or libellous statement. But then again, the law is writtten by the system, for the system).

However, actions are often cheap too. Let's face facts, if you want to start a thoroughly illegal and murderous war for your own secret benefits, work hard and become the leader of a 'free and democratic western nation'. You can start any war you like then, kill as many people as you want. Just ask Bush the Younger, Blair, Howard. They are far greater war criminals than Milosevic, Khaddafi, Bashar Al-Assad, whomsoever. Because of the vastly greater damage they do when they get it into the heads to have their own self-generated crusade.

Posted by: Ant. | Oct 31 2020 10:01 utc | 100

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