Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 03, 2020

Is The War Over Nagorno-Karabakh Already At A Stalemate?

Seven days after Azerbaijan attacked the Armenian held Nagorno-Karabakh territory it has not made any territorial progress.

Overview map

Iran and Georgia have both large Azeri and Armenian minorities within their territories.
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Detail map

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The highlands of Nagorno-Karabakh are ethnically Armenian. The light blue districts were originally Azeri but have been ethically cleansed during the war in the early 1990s.

Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan by supplying it with Turkish drones and with 'moderate Syrian rebel' mercenaries from Syrian and Libya. All are flown in through Georgian air space. Other mercenaries seem to come from Afghanistan. Additional hardware comes by road also through Georgia. Another supporter of the attacker is Israel. During the last week Azerbaijani military transport aircraft have flown at least six times to Israel to then return with additional Israeli suicide drones on board. These Harop drones have been widely used in attacks on Armenian positions. An Israeli made LORA short range ballistic missile was used by Azerbaijan to attack a bridge that connects Nagorno-Karabakh with Armenia. Allegedly there are also Turkish flown F-16 fighter planes in Azerbaijan.

Turkey seems to direct the drones and fighter planes in Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh through AWACS type air control planes that fly circles at the Turkish-Armenian border.

The attack plan Azerbaijan had in mind when it launched the war foresaw taking zones of several miles per day. It has not survived the first day of battle. Azerbaijan started the attack without significant artillery preparation. The ground attack was only supported by drone strikes on Armenian tanks, artillery and air defense positions. But the defensive lines held by Armenian infantry were not damaged by the drones. The dug in Armenian infantry could use its anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons to full extent. Azerbaijani tanks and infantry were slaughtered when they tried to break into the lines. Both sides had significant casualties but overall the frontlines did not move.

The war seems already to be at a stalemate. Neither Armenia nor Azerbaijan can afford to use air power and ballistic missiles purchased from Russia without Russian consent.

The drone attacks were for a while quite successful. A number of old air defense systems were destroyed before the Armenians became wiser with camouflaging them. The Azerbaijani's then used a trick to unveil hidden air defense positions. Radio controlled Antonov AN-2 airplanes, propeller driven relicts from the late 1940s, were sent over Armenian positions. When the air defense then launched a missile against them a loitering suicide drone was immediately dropped onto the firing position.

That seems to have worked for a day or two but by now such drone attacks have been become rare. Dozens of drones were shot down before they could hit a target and Azerbaijan seems to be running out of them. A bizarre music video the Azerbaijanis posted showed four trucks each carrying nine drones. It may have had several hundreds of those drones but likely less than one thousand. Israel is currently under a strict pandemic lockdown. Resupply of drones will be an issue. Azerbaijan has since brought up more heavy artillery but it seems to primarily use it to hit towns and cities, not the front lines where it would be more useful.

It is not clear who is commanding the Azerbaijani troops. Three days ago the Chief of the General Staff of Azerbaijan was fired after he complained about too much Turkish influence on the war. That has not helped. Two larger ground attacks launched by Azerbaijan earlier today were also unsuccessful. The Armenians are currently counter attacking.

In our last piece on the war we pointed to U.S. plans to 'overextend Russia' by creating trouble in the Caucasus just as it is now happening. Fort Russ notes:

The current director of the CIA, Gina Haspel, was doing field assignments in Turkey in the early stages of her career, she reportedly speaks Turkish, and she has history of serving as a station chief in Baku, Azerbaijan, in the late 1990s. It is, therefore, presumable that she still has connections with the local government and business elites.

The current Chief of the MI6, Richard Moore, also has history of working in Turkey — he was performing tasks for the British intelligence there in the late 1980s and the early 1990s. Moore is fluent in Turkish and he also served as the British Ambassador to Turkey from 2014 to 2017.

The intelligence chiefs of the two most powerful countries in the Anglosphere are turkologists with connections in Turkey and Azerbaijan. It would be reasonable to assume that a regional conflict of such magnitude happening now, on their watch, is far from being a mere coincidence.

Before President Trump stopped the program the CIA had used the Azerbaijani Silk Way Airlines in more than 350 flights to bring weapons from Bulgaria to Turkey to then hand them to 'Syrian rebels'. Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan, is not only a CIA station but also a Mossad center for waging its silent war against Iran.

The former Indian ambassador to Turkey M.K. Bhadrakumar has written two interesting pieces on the current conflict. In the first one he reminds us on the 2018 color revolution in Armenia which he had thought meant trouble for Moscow.

I have never perceived it that way. While Armenia's current Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan tried to get into business with 'western' powers and NATO there was no way he could fundamentally change Armenia's foreign policy. A hundred years ago Turkey, with the second biggest NATO army, had genocided Armenians. They have never forgotten that. The relation to Azerbaijan were also certain to continue to be hostile. That will only change if the two countries again come under some larger empire. Armenia depends on Russian arms support just as much as Azerbaijan does. (Azerbaijan has more money and pays more for its Russian weapons which allows Russia to subsidize the ones it sells to Armenia.)

After Nikol Pashinyan was installed and tried to turn 'west' Russia did the same as it did in Belarus when President Lukashenko started to make deals with the 'west'. It sat back and waited until the 'west' betrayed its new partners. That happened in Belarus a few weeks ago. The U.S. launched a color revolution against Lukashenko and he had nowhere to turn to but to Russia. Now Armenia is under attack by NATO supported forces and can not hope for help from anywhere but Russia.

Iran likewise did not fear the new government in Yerevan. It was concerned over Pashinyan’s recent diplomatic exchanges with Israel which were at the initiative of the White House. But that concern has now been lifted. To protest against Israel's recent sale of weapon to Azerbaijan Armenia has called back its ambassador from Israel just two weeks after it opened its embassy there.

Pashinyan will have to apologize in Moscow before Russia will come to his help. As Maxim Suchkov relays:

This is interesting: Evgeniy "Putin's chef" Prigozhin gives short interview to state his "personal opinion" on Nagorno-Karabakh. Some takeaways:

- Karabakh is Azerbaijan's territory
- Russia has no legal grounds to conduct military activity in Karabakh
- there are more American NGOs in Armenia than national military units
- PM Pashinyan is to blame
- until 2018 Russia was able to ensure ARM & AZ discuss conflict at the negotiation table, then US brought Pashinyan to power in Yerevan and he feels he's a king & can't talk to Aliyev

I wonder if Prigozhin's remarks suggest he'd be reluctant to deploy his Wagner guys to Armenia, if needed or if he is asked to do so, or he's just indeed stating his own views or it's a way to delicately allude to Pashinyan that Moscow not happy with him ... ?

Russia's (and Iran's) interest is to refreeze the conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh. But that requires compliant people on both sides. It therefore does not mind that Azerbaijan currently creates some pressure on Pashinyan. But it can not allow Azerbaijan to make a significant victory. One of its main concern will be to get Turkey out of the game and that will require support for Armenia. Iran has a quite similar strategy. The U.S. will probably try to escalate the situation and to make it more complicated for Russia. It seems to silently tell Turkey to increase its involvement in the war.

Russia will likely only intervene if either side makes some significant territorial gains. Unless that happens it will may well allow the war to continue in the hope that it will burn out:

The upcoming winter conditions, coupled with the harsh terrain, will limit large-scale military operations. Also, the crippled economies of both Azerbaijan and Armenia will not allow them to maintain a prolonged conventional military confrontation.

Posted by b on October 3, 2020 at 17:28 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@willie

Armenians expected Israel's support in recognizing the Genocide since the Jewish people themselves are survivors of genocide. But Israel has actively lobbied against the Armenian efforts and sells weaponry to the genociders/Turkey.

The new embassy was opened to appease the USA and create tension with Iran. One of the more hare-brained schemes by Pashinyan.

Posted by: Думбо Трамп | Oct 5 2020 13:32 utc | 101

@Noirette | Oct 4 2020 14:52 utc | 79

Kosovo will remain "independent" for as long as Bondsteel military camp is up and running. The party will resume as soon as the anglo-zio attack dogs are sent home…!

Posted by: LXV | Oct 5 2020 14:09 utc | 102

While we are pendant of the so much "suffering" and evolution of The Donald...here it comes the "October Surprise"...setting all the Russian borders on fire....Now Bishkek..( Kyrgyzstan ). This is to open routes for extremists to Russia...

https://twitter.com/gbazov/status/1313159579178602503

Gleb Bazov @gbazov ·2h #FLASH—#KYRGYZSTAN—Reports of the parliament and presidential administration buildings under siege by protesters over the results of yesterday’s elections.

Another colour revolution in progress—AS PREDICTED.
Gleb Bazov
@gbazov
·
22min

#FLASH—#KYRGYZSTAN—Colour Revolution in #Bishkek: Protesting crowds breaking the gates to the parliament building.

#FLASH—#KYRGYZSTAN—Colour Revolution in #Bishkek: Protesting crowds going after law enforcement in the streets.

https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1313149151690006534

Pure chaos in #Bishkek. Protesters hunting down riot police. Some protesters seen with captured riot gear already.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 5 2020 17:18 utc | 103

The playbook in Kyrgyzstan is the same followed in Belarus, minoritary parties, which hardly came into parliament with slightover 4% support, and those which got out, with scarce 4% of representation, have signed a manifesto on not recognizing the results and have called and started violent protests and riots attacking the law enforcement forces and with intents on taking over official buildings...

Thread:

https://twitter.com/descifraguerra/status/1313126741678977024

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 5 2020 17:26 utc | 104

Antecedents of the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh ( Today "Republic of Artsakh" ) or how a highly likely CIA spy ( A. Yakovlev ) set the region on fire, to be exploited then against the USSR and to these very days against Russia...

How a Senior Gorbachev Advisor’s Involvement in Karabakh Conflict Helped Set Region on Fire

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 5 2020 18:34 utc | 105

video from my turkish friend via facebook.. https://www.facebook.com/VideoTerapiya/videos/352428772770543/

lots of stuff and people being blown up..

Posted by: james | Oct 5 2020 19:50 utc | 106

Preparations for the color revolution in Kyrgyzstan...from before the elections...

English translation from Colonel Cassad..


About the color script in Kyrgyzstan

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Oct 5 2020 20:40 utc | 107

If this is right, why is Southfront reporting the victory of Azerbaijan? Given the level of infowar by both sides, it's tough to pick out what's really happened, so I wonder what the reality is, and which sources we can trust about where the front lines are.

https://southfront.org/turkey-and-azerbaijan-setting-up-diplomatic-ground-for-seucring-desired-victory-in-war-with-armenia/

Posted by: Stash99 | Oct 5 2020 21:10 utc | 108

Stash99 that Southfront article reads like extreme propaganda. They use quotes saying Turkey has a high international standing and that Armenians are safe in Azerbaijan without pointing out how ridiculous those notions are. Southfront will have to explain their own bias themselves, I have no idea why anyone would say such things other than to deceive people.

Armenia is a small country, Artsakh even smaller, look at the map again (the Southfront one will do) and it becomes clear that to the extent that the map is anywhere remotely similar to what might be reality then the fighting has as b pointed out essentially gone nowhere.

Another hint at the geographical scale is that the Azeris are shelling Stepanakert from either the front (which has hardly moved) or more likely from inside Azerbaijan.

And of course the same shelling also shows how much they lie when they claim not to have any trouble with civilian Armenians.

The pictures are the usual underwhelming ones without context and missing any kind of insignia etc. The trucks in the last picture look brand new and unused, wheels that could easily only have been driven on a dusty dirt road once or twice. It doesn't mean much, I just found it striking and unusual. One thing is sure though; those have never seen any kind of battle or heavy use.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 5 2020 23:32 utc | 109

This is dubious. Why use an Azeri airline to ferry weapons over the border ...
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 4 2020 2:11 utc | 58

Source: Dilyana Gaytandzhieva, Bulgarian investigative journalist

Wikispooks:
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Dilyana_Gaytandzhieva#Criticism
In an August 2018 opinion piece entitled ‘Fake News’ Takes to the Air, Sam Ross for International Policy Digest described the story as part of a "‘Black PR’ campaign... to besmirch the reputation of and the relationships hosted by longstanding U.S. military contractors such as Silk Way Airlines".

take your pick

Posted by: lea | Oct 6 2020 1:12 utc | 110

@Sunny Runny Burer | 111/ @Stash99| 110

Fully agree. The article reads like a paid up propaganda piece. The quotes seem to be taken from yesterday's interview with Aliyev. The only part missing is where he lauds Turkey's drones like some cheap second-hand car salesman.

The only aspect of significance is NATO's involvement but i'm not sure what that means: In the press conference Cavusoglu slammed NATO saying that it should support Turkey's war on terrorism etc. attempting to pit NATO against US for its support of PKK/ YPG!! So, I'm not sure if Turkey got anything but 'moral support' from the meeting. It may have been pure show as usual. After all, Turkey has nowhere else to go for help.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 6 2020 1:25 utc | 111

@ 112 lea - i do recall those connections... i wonder how it's going with the 10 new 737 max's?
"In April 2017, Silk Way increased its purchases from Boeing, signing a $1 billion deal for 10 new 737 MAX passenger planes, according to reporter Mehta. However, it is not known how the new acquisition was financed. Last October, Silk Way announced plans to buy two more 747-8 cargo planes."

Congress Must Investigate U.S. Loans To Secretive Azeri Silk Way Airlines

Posted by: james | Oct 6 2020 3:22 utc | 112

@H.Schmatz | Oct 5 2020 20:40 utc | 109

Right on cue! What else could one expect from a MI6 agent like UK's incumbent ambassador to Kyrgyzstan Charles Garrett, famous for his key role (alongside his dynamic duo partner - USA's former ambassador Jess Baily) in organizing, directing and executing the Color Revolution in Macedonia that led to coup d'etat a few years back. Just a week or so ago a local investigative journalist aired an extensive two-part report (link to part 1 with english subs here) with regards to Kyrgyzstan's potential for a renewed attempt to overthrow the government in Bishkek to the benefit of "western-friendly" sock puppets...

Posted by: LXV | Oct 6 2020 4:26 utc | 113

Looks like the Stoltenberg - Cavusoglu meeting was not quite what Turkey expected. According to this report Stoltenberg simply encouraged Turkey to use its 'significant influence' regsionally to mediate an end to the conflict. Interestingly, Aliyev used the same language in his inteview yesterday - did Turkey pen that by any chance? Seems to me it is a means for Turkey to save face after having been told to sort the effing mess out! (My words, of course!))))

Another piece of news is the Canadian arms boycott on Turkey because it suspects that Canadian technology is being used in the drones currently deployed in the conflict. I wrote a comment about foreign involvement in the Turkish drone industry just last week, and Canada was included in one of the articles I linked to. This is a very tactical move indeed.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 6 2020 6:44 utc | 114

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 4 2020 16:33 utc | 82

It was an interesting article.

What was not mentioned was the, now apparent, stupid mistake of the West (Europeans) to treat Turks as a necessary evil rather than "fellow Europeans". There may have been no AK and nor Erdogan if the Turks weren't subjected to a parade of little stans of former USSR entering EU while Turkey was kept at arms length.

This prejudice, which smells like racism, is very ingrained. Even here in MOA, a Turkish leader trying to reestablish some pre-WWI conditions is ridiculed as a "wannabe Sultan". A Russian leader attempting to do the same precise thing is a visionary leader but never a "wannabe Tsar". Interesting phenomena, agreed?

Another interesting side-item from the article is highlighting the fact that it is not only the Americans ("Empire") that have military bases all over the place, far away from home. For exmaple, why are the surrender monkey French in bases all over Africa?

There is very little honesty in all these geopolitical discussions. It's more like spectator sports; pick a team and root for it.

Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Oct 6 2020 12:20 utc | 115

@ArtBrit 118

Erdogan provides himself the reference : https://www.semedenergydefense.com/the-ottoman-empire-strikes-back

Posted by: murgen23 | Oct 6 2020 12:28 utc | 116

@conspiracy-theorist | Oct 6 2020 12:20 utc | 118

A Russian leader attempting to do the same precise thing is a visionary leader but never a "wannabe Tsar".

And in which ways precisely has the Russian leader showed or expressed his "visions" of recreating Tsarist Russia? Could you exemplify that claim and make it easier to understand how the two relate to each other…?

Posted by: LXV | Oct 6 2020 13:48 utc | 117

A Russian leader attempting to do the same precise thing is a visionary leader but never a "wannabe Tsar". Interesting phenomena, agreed?

NOT agreed.

You are making a false equivalence.

That visionary leader staved off complete collapse and total capitulation. He then returned Russia to normalcy and respectability in a generation.

OTOH Erdogan is a dictator that colludes with USA/NATO and the Assad must go! Coalition to expand his influence and find enemies abroad that help him maintain power.

<> <> <> <> <>

It's funny how the same sort that deride/derided Russia as a "gas station masquerading as a country" also pretend that Putin has plans for Empire.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 6 2020 15:34 utc | 118

PS My comment is a reply to conspiracy-theorist @Oct6 12:20 #118.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 6 2020 15:35 utc | 119

JR--
"It's funny how the same sort that deride/derided Russia as a "gas station masquerading as a country""

Yes, and that is the same gas station that they told us was a huge threat for what, 40 years and we needed to spend billions upon billions to defend ourselves from a gas station in the Arctic.

Posted by: arby | Oct 6 2020 15:42 utc | 120

@conspiracy-theorist | 118
I am not so knowledgeable on this part of Turkey's history, but several arguments I have heard in the past are these:

-The sheer size of the population would automatically afford it more weight than many long-time members of the EU;
-Turkey has historically been an adversary to Europe;
-Turkey's entry would mean a massive influx of Muslims into the EU in one instance;
- Serious human rights concerns especially regarding women's rights and recurring Kurdish issues;
-Turkey has never, until very recently, properly managed its borders and there was rightly, the fear that membership would open up the EU to a massive influx of immigrants from Asia and Africa;
-The invasion and occupation of Northern Cyprus has of course been a key factor;

These are just off the top of my head and I am sure that others will have a lot to say on the subject ( ))))) ) as it is a contentious one, but it shows that this is much more than just 'keeping Turkey at arms length' or 'racism'. In addition I do not know of one country where a majority would welcome Turkey as an equal member.

As it stands, in the decade of accession up to 2016 Turkey managed to meet only half of the 36 criteria and it was clear by 2010/11 that Erdogan had no serious plans to join the EU.

As for the comparison with Putin, I totally agree with @jackrabbit that it is entirely a false and superficial one which has been touted by western media at times but has little basis in the truth.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 6 2020 17:02 utc | 121

Israeli-made M095 DPICM cluster munitions fired by Azerbaijani forces on residential areas in Stepanakert. These are upgrades of the M85 cluster weapons used by the IDF in populated regions of Lebanon back 14 years ago during the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon War.

Posted by: Leith | Oct 6 2020 17:11 utc | 122

@murgen23 | 119
Precisely the reasons why all but 4 Arab nations are now fully united against Turkey and seeking to diminish its influence in Arab lands. Whatever your opinion of Erdogan, he is a force to be reckoned with domestically and regionally.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 6 2020 17:30 utc | 123

@ conspiracy-theorist | Oct 6 2020 12:20 utc | 118

What a load of bollox!

Evidently, you do not live in any of the Northwest-European countries that host a sizable community of Turkish guest workers and their offspring. Even though having been naturalized as full citizens of the countries that welcomed them or their forefathers, most feel themselves to be primarily - or even only - Turks. The other nationality is good for economic benefits.

Notwithstanding exceptions, the Turkish immigrants generally do not integrate very well, compared to other immigrant groups, look up the statistics. In fact they do not even wish to integrate and are stimulated in that mindset by the Turkish government, that actively runs all kinds of social and religio-social organisations to keep the Turks tightly in the Turkish fold. Turkey considers every child born from a Turkish father or mother a Turk and also demands that all young men return to the motherland to fullfill mandatory military service.

The Turkish state does not want its citizens to be Europeans and a great many Turks agree with that.

Cosidering the widely spread and deeply rooted panturanism, grey wolves "idealism" and revanchist ottoman dreams, it is pretty clear that Turkey as a society would rather dominate Asia Minor, half of Africa and sizable parts of Europe than lose its identity in a European superstructure (which is the inevitable course of the current European project.)

The sad irony is that more than half of contemporary Turks have ancestry and forgotten cultural roots that would make them very relatable to Europe. Alas, centuries of Ottoman domination and turanistic indoctrination has them think that their roots are to be found somewhere around Siberian and Mongolia.

As to the accusation of racism, you'll find plenty of that in Europe, as you would in any place of the world. But in Turkey, the racism is much more overt and even a part of the state-sanctioned national, cultural and ethnic Turkish identity.

Anyway, if Boris Johnson were found musing about a restoration of 19th century British glory, he'd be ridiculed all the way. If Angela Merkel were to be heard mumbling about "die gute alte Zeit", she'd be ridiculed if she was reminiscing about the German Democratic Republic, and if she was found reminiscing about the Third Reich, there would be quite a bit more than merely ridicule.

Meanwhile, Erdogan - and a lot of other Turkish dignitaries - are openly dreaming about a restoration of Ottoman grandeur. Turkey is still in denial of the most blatant genocide in its recent history, forget about it admitting the historical reality of the older or lesser known genocides.

You can point to European countries' spotted history, but at least most are trying to come clean about it. Turkey is not there yet, not by a long shot, nor does it seem to want to be.

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 6 2020 19:17 utc | 124

Adding my opinion and subjective attempt at a super-short simplified (and thus wrong even if right) "history of Turkey".

Turkey is the leftover of the European eastern front of islamic wars of aggression that continued for the last 800 years. For the 200 years before those 800 the Turks were not muslim and (I think) hadn't reached as far as where Turkey is today. The other front (of the muslim expansion of which Turkey/Ottomans were only one of many in charge at various times) reached through north Africa and into Spain (and is the only reason you can find people with mostly Arab —not Turk— ancestry throughout all of it). There is much more to this including different parts of Africa and Asia, and then there's many thousands of years more of non-Turk history too when they likely didn't exist at all.

They were finally beaten back in many various wars including such alliances as the Holy League which included Russia, but this particular leftover managed to survive into the modern age because Ataturk and his followers earnestly and honestly tried very hard to change their ways into something at least a little less destructive both to others and themselves.

Seems that wasn't enough and if so then the world (including people in Turkey) is lucky if Turkey finally finishes itself off as if none of that had ever happened (no matter what strange affliction Merkel is suffering from).

I don't dare to hope for something as big as that, getting rid of the monstrosity AKP turned into and letting far more sensible Turks and Kurds take over and re-imagine Turkey into a country that truly respects itself, its own population, and the rest of the world, would still be a big ask and good enough for me.

Maybe any Arab help will be the final part of making that happen, the final piece of the puzzle, and then the nearly one thousand years of waste, missed opportunities, strife, misery, death, and stupid war started by some tiny hyper-aggressive and eternally treasonous tribe all the way from north of the Caspian Sea can finally end —just to one-sidedly and very unreasonably put all the blame on them in order to point out that this is a summary lacking finesse, there's plenty I don't know :)

If nothing else and for all its flaws this should bring things into a rough perspective and can for example help explain why they hate Armenia so much (they were already supposed to have been finally conquered centuries ago) and why they love Azerbaijan (they created them) and why they would (and do) continue to "look" further east and north as well as westwards and south. The Ottomans are sort of only half their story/insanity.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 6 2020 21:12 utc | 125

Sunny Runny Burger @ 128:

The Muslim expansion out of the Arabian peninsula was made possible by the exhaustion of the Roman Empire (in Anatolia and the Levant) and the Sassanian Empire (in its Mesopotamian territories) after hundreds of years of fighting over those parts of the world where the empires met and had their common boundaries.

And the Romans inherited that conflict from Alexander the Great and Macedonia, and the Macedonians themselves inherited the conflict from Athens and its fellow city states.

After World War I, Turkey was to have been subjected to break-up and either outright European colonial-style occupation or its indirect "zones of influence" alternative, or even annexations by neighbouring countries. Britain, France, Italy and even Greece and newly independent Armenia and Georgia would take parts of Anatolia for themselves. Turkish soldiers who had fought for the Ottomans during WW1 rallied around Kemal Ataturk and fought off the European powers and their assorted allies. This enabled Ataturk and his supporters to sweep out remnants of the old Ottoman government and systems and declare a new Republic of Turkey based on a platform of secularism and Turkish nationalism. As part of this change, the Turkish language was purged of Ottoman-era foreign influences and vocabulary.

In a sense then, the war for Anatolia and western Asia has never really ended in spite of the change of empires, religions, ethnicities, languages and even the ways in which people view territories, landscapes and the land itself. It is a war that has gone on for at least 2,500 years.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 7 2020 0:35 utc | 126

Yes, that sounds right to me Jen.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 7 2020 8:02 utc | 127

Here’s a great piece of research by Saradzyan : An evolving list of jihadist and other groups (updated on Oct. 6) whose members have been  reportedly deployed by Turkey to fight in Karabakh

Makes for very interesting reading.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Oct 7 2020 14:17 utc | 128

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