Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 08, 2020

"Global Condemnation"

The Guardian wrote yesterday:

Australia joins global condemnation of China over Xinjiang amid deteriorating ties

Australia has stared down a potential backlash from China by joining with nearly 40 countries to voice grave concerns about “gross human rights violations” in the Xinjiang region and call for independent observers to be granted unfettered access.

The United Nations has 193 member states. "Global condemnation" and "nearly 40 countries" thereby do not seem to fit well.

Indeed. After 16 paragraphs of dubious allegations against China we learn:

[China’s ambassador to the UN, Zhang Jun,] pointed to counter-statements, including one made by Pakistan on behalf of 55 countries that opposed interference in China’s internal affairs under the pretext of Hong Kong.

Cuba also issued a joint statement on behalf of 45 countries backing the Chinese government’s position that its actions in Xinjiang were related to counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation efforts.

I have failed to find the two counter-statements and to check how many states signed both. But Ambassador Zhang has said that nearly 70 countries had backed either or both.

That is not a majority of UN member states but it shows that 'global affirmation" for China's Xinjiang policy is a more truthful expression than the "global condemnation" the Guardian has chosen.

Posted by b on October 8, 2020 at 13:08 UTC | Permalink


China has had to deal with terrorist attacks in Xinjiang financed by the US State Department over many years, recently including (what we know about) $669,000 in 2018 and $960,000 in in 2019.
Between 1990 and 2016, thousands of terrorist attacks (supported by the US) shook the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in northwestern China, killing large numbers of innocent people and hundreds of police officers. Horrific stabbings and bombings rocked the land once known as a commercial hub on China's ancient Silk Road.
The damage to local communities was incalculable while stability in the region quickly deteriorated. Authorities have been trying hard to restore peace to this land.
In this exclusive CGTN exposé, we show you never-before-seen footage from China documenting the frightening tragedies in Xinjiang and the resilience of its people. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 8 2020 13:33 utc | 1

Large scale internment by China is best compared to Operation Demetrius by the British in early 1970s in Northern Ireland. About 2-3,000 Catholics out of a local Catholic population of one million were at any point during the period interned based on suspicion of terrorist sympathies. It would be proportionate criticism leveled at China to compare internment in Xinjiang to Northern Ireland. But Washington has engineered this issue and added its distortion (Pentagon came up with a phony estimate of 3 million interned up from the out of nowhere estimate of 1 million presented by the US government at the UN) to create a vehicle to portray the Chinese government as evil and invoke comparisons to the Holocaust. European criticism of Xinjiang internment is overwrought but genuine as antiracist positions adopted by EU countries is fairly consistent worldwide.

Posted by: leavenworth | Oct 8 2020 13:43 utc | 2

German auto giant Volkswagen operates a factory in Urumqi, the regional capital of Xinjiang, where the Chinese government has detained more than a million ethnic minorities in mass internment camps. Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess attracted fierce criticism for his claim in April 2019 that he was “not aware” of the camps." He joins Pakistani president Imran Khan who also "doesn't know" about these.

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 8 2020 13:52 utc | 3

The empire sure is upset that its head-chopping rabid attack dogs in Xinjiang have been neutered. Furthermore, time is not on the empire's side. As education and economic opportunities improve in China's hinterlands the pool of ignorant redneck dirtbags for America to recruit its head choppers from continuously shrinks. Soon there will no longer be any violent scum there whose "religious freedom" the empire can pretend to champion. What a tragedy that will be for America's faux left "intersectionalists" who do so very much like to intersect with fascist killers murdering for the empire. Maybe Netflix will do a fictional documentary about the loss to humanity of that cultural backwardness.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 8 2020 13:53 utc | 5

Here's the true version of the story:

Attempt of U.S., other countries to smear China's human rights record fails again at UN

Posted by: vk | Oct 8 2020 14:00 utc | 6

Here is the link to the UN statements you are looking for:

"in a letter to the UNHCR published on July 12th 2019, 50 nations including Muslim-majority Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Burkina Faso, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, UAE, Uzbekistan, Yemen, and the Palestinian Authority confirmed their support for China's actions in Xinjiang, expressing "firm opposition to relevant countries’ practice of politicizing human rights issues" and calling on UN members "to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang."

Posted by: Andrew Carter | Oct 8 2020 14:00 utc | 7

With "global condemnation" they mean "condemnation by the globalists".

Posted by: m | Oct 8 2020 14:04 utc | 8

And here's China's side of the story:

West’s human rights hypocrisy shameless: Global Times editorial

Posted by: vk | Oct 8 2020 14:07 utc | 9

Well, I am willing to join the global condemnation of Australias authoritarian terror against their own citizens, under the cover of the so called virus.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 8 2020 14:46 utc | 10

Posted by: m | Oct 8 2020 14:04 utc | 8
'With "global condemnation" they mean "condemnation by the globalists".'

With only 40 countries supporting the 'Globalists' and 70 supporting China, it shows just how weak the 'Globalists' have become. No wonder they're so desperate.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Oct 8 2020 14:48 utc | 11

Here is some more comprehensive analysis

Posted by: Peter M | Oct 8 2020 15:53 utc | 12

1 million Ujghurs is an impossible number which doesn't seem to be challenged in any media, even the alternative media.
It would imply the equivalent to every male Ujghur aged 16-28 (including the ones fighting in Syria!)
It would also imply 300-400 prisons.

There seem to have been 2 source stories for this. One published by the BBC last year which used satellite to identify a handful of prisons "but only as candidate prisons, not as confirmed prisons using detailed photography or local evidence". The interviews with family members were carried out in Istanbul (I wonder where their husbands really were then!)
The other printed this year in Breitbart which claimed numerous confirmed prison sites but again no more than claims, no photos, no statements.

Pure fake news - and indeed for the first 6 months of the story almost no news service took it seriously.
See also Heavenly Hundred snipers, Maidan numbers 4-5x too high based purely on a single Nemstvov quote, HK demonstration numbers (10x too high), currently Belarus numbers, and almost certainly Tiananmen square numbers..

Posted by: Michael Droy | Oct 8 2020 15:55 utc | 13

Aren't they getting trigger-time over in Syria courtesy of the Turks? This is very likely a cause for concern.

Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 8 2020 17:32 utc | 14

Here are some YouTube clips relating to Xinjiang that I saw recently and found interesting:

American expat Nathan Rich's thoughts on Xinjiang (2020/08/12, 14 minutes)

Xinjiang: From the eyes of an Australian British who cycled across China (2020/08/12, 15 minutes)

Lies and truth: Vocational education and training in Xinjiang (2020/08/24, 35 minutes)

The latter two are from CGTN. Liked Nathan Rich's thoughts.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Oct 8 2020 17:41 utc | 15

Below is the title for a ZH posting that says it all
Trump Says "China Will Pay A Big Price For What It Did To The World And To Us" In Latest Video Message

I am sure Trump can get the OPCW to say that China created and unleashed the virus on the world.....but there are those comment here that say that Trump hasn't started any wars....what is your definition of war? Trump has droned more than Obama, I am reading...what are the measures of and what is war? Trump has killed a couple hundred thousand in his own that a measurement of war? Are the starvation deaths in Yemen, Venezuela, etc. not war?

I am not saying Biden is any better but this consistent drivel that Trump has some sort of humanistic stance is appalling to read.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 8 2020 18:04 utc | 16

Also recently read this article from The Gray Zone about the "million" or "millions" figure being thrown around by Western governments, NGO's, and mainstream media (that leavenworth @2 and Antonym @3 also mentioned)

"China detaining millions of Uyghurs? Serious problems with claims by US-backed NGO and far-right researcher ‘led by God’ against Beijing"

Apparently that "million"/"millions" claim being propagated without verification is based only on two sources: a Washington DC-based, US-funded NGO that "formed its estimate by interviewing a grand total of eight people", and Adrian Zenz, a far-right fundamentalist Christian who based his claims "on a single report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur exile media organization based in Turkey," padded by "reports from Radio Free Asia, a US-funded news agency created by the CIA."

"While CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals."

Based on that, it sounds like they might have extrapolated 8 out of dozens interviewed in order to come up with "millions" which then gets repeated everywhere?

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Oct 8 2020 18:16 utc | 17

i watched a few documentaries on the indoctrination program on some of the muslins in the Xinjiang region from a few years ago.. @peter au might have been the one who shared them... not sure where @ peter au is presently, but they were quite good... they were from at least 2 -3 years ago... i can't find them anymore... oh well... australia strikes me as a real bootlicker to the USA-Uk duo leading the pack... canada is very much the same... not sure when this will end... i suspect keeping these countries ignorant is the primary goal of their medias... it seems to be working for the most part if having lunch with my sister yesterday is any indication...

Posted by: james | Oct 8 2020 19:15 utc | 18

I have not come across honest reliable sources for information about what are the circumstances on the ground of how repressive or not the Chinese Communist government is. it is evident nobody trusts Chinese government economic data to portray reliability and make business decisions. Mchael Pettis does do good reporting on the chinese economy. Pepe Escobar does upbeat reports on the Belt and Road Initiative. He does not talk about social credit surveillance and restrictions imposed on critics. Anecdotally I was in China in spring of 2002 and would wander off the beaten tourist track along with the Great wall and other visited sites . I didn't notice a repressive atmosphere. mostly people seemed to be busy going about the business of living. I didn't appreciate having to buy toilet paper at public restrooms. I was warned about talking about Falun Gong. I did read a Chinese American's report about her recent visit to Xinjiang who reported noticeable police presence but nothing upsetting. I imagine that Han Chinese get the most lucrative business contracts for government projects in Xinjiang. I do believe the US government goes about its usual business of supporting unrest in countries it spreads the usual propaganda about. Violent Uighur jihadists are found in places like Syria's Idlib.

Posted by: gepay | Oct 8 2020 19:39 utc | 19

Build Back Better is a WEF campaign. Joe and BoJo got their marching orders there. WEF Building back better

Posted by: Goldhoarder | Oct 8 2020 19:45 utc | 20

Scum Mo's Zio-nazis aren't limiting themselves to jumping on AmeriKKKa's Condemn China bandwagon. Today we've learned that Scum Mo is urging Oz's Olympic athletes to boycott China's Winter Olympics in 2022.

I'm hoping they'll ask him how much money he's getting, and from whom, to spout anti-China drivel?
And then tell him to STFU. He can't sack them all...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 8 2020 19:55 utc | 21

"it is evident nobody trusts Chinese government economic data to portray reliability and make business decisions"

Odd how westerners consider nearly 1.4 billion Chinese people "nobody". Perhaps the sentence should be adjusted as "... nobody who isn't irrelevant dismisses Chinese government economic data...

" credit surveillance and restrictions imposed on critics."

The social credit system in China is public, not secret like America's. You can challenge or appeal your rating in China. What's your recourse when you get "cancelled" or blacklisted in America? Oh yeah, there is no recourse. You're just screwed.

"I was warned about talking about Falun Gong."

Yes, it is wise not to defend crazy cults that you don't know anything about, unless you are into trolling people by trying to promote Aum Shinrikyo in Japan or Heaven's Gate or The People's Temple in America. Expect a little flack if that is the kind of thing you are into.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 8 2020 20:01 utc | 22

This whole obsession with defining "what is China?" reveals more about the Western Civilization that ask it than about China itself.

It reveals the truth about the Western Civilization in two ways:

1) the non-socialist part of the West (the vast majority) is asking itself: "should we destroy China?"

2) the socialist part of the West is asking itself: "should we admit Chinese socialism is superior to our socialism or should we double down on our post-war lies?"

This is what all boils down to.

Posted by: vk | Oct 8 2020 20:35 utc | 23

Has Australia stopped ethnically cleansing the aborigines yet?

Are they still interning them on 'reservations'?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 8 2020 20:43 utc | 24

You remember the NATO drunks singinging "we are the world in 2014, just before the British people voted to exit the EU? You would think that such incident would sober-up the arrogant atlantists, but they are apparently unteachable.

Posted by: Steve | Oct 8 2020 21:10 utc | 25

There is actually very little doubt there has been a resort to mass incarceration on an American scale. Imitating America is worth some criticism, except from America.

China is the US government's enemy. As such they should be expected to 1)do bad things and 2)not give a rat's ass what we say about it. India is the government's friend, so they should be expected 1)not to do bad things, like imprison all of Kashmir---still astonishing!--- but 2)listen to what we say, which means the US government shares some blame with the Indian government.

Lastly of course, it is entirely true that teaching Uighurs pu tong hua (Mandarin) is a job training program. But it is impossible to deny that this does not promote Uighur "culture," at least not pristine, isolationist, reactionary Uighur culture. To a certain extent it is a matter of opinion whether this constitutes cultural genocide. At least, it is impossible for a mere American citizen to deny the spiritual essence of Uighur people involves mass terror attacks.

In the long run, China Dream does not bode well for the Uighurs or any other national minority. But that's a might have been. American exceptionalism has contributed to the deaths of millions over decades.

Also in the long run? Whose side are you on? The way forward, socialism, however imperfect? Or the decaying and doomed imperialist chaos?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 8 2020 22:49 utc | 26

@ Andrew Carter | 7

and the Palestinian Authority confirmed their support for China's actions in Xinjiang, expressing "firm opposition to relevant countries’ practice of politicizing human rights issues"

Really weird home the usual anti-Israel crowd casually steps over this: compartmentalized brains, more than one personality or just blindly "China good, Israel bad"?

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 9 2020 1:55 utc | 27

unfortunately with a government such as ours, headed by Scotty From Marketing who gives the impression that he's on the same intellectual and religious wavelength as Mike Pompeo, but without the latter's belligerence, Canberra is an easy target for Washington DC to push around and thump whenever the US governments wants a lapdog type to do all its barking for it.

Australia and the United States are the Spike and Chester of international politics, for those of us who vaguely remember the Warner Bros cartoon characters.

Our defence and academic establishments are no better, always focused on China the home of the Yellow Peril.

What's even more unfortunate is that before the US started thumping Australia, China was (and still is) Australia's biggest trading partner. What some of us here at MoA wouldn't give to be flies on the wall watching the Chinese laughing as they figure out next where to hit Canberra: one day it'll be asking Brazil to send them more iron ore instead of asking Australia, next day it'll be advising matriculating high school students and their families to set their sights on studying in Russian universities rather than Australian universities, the next day after that will be offering to build better infrastructure in Papua New Guinea or the Solomon Islands which Australia neglected to do over the past half-century ... there's plenty to stick in us ... Beijing must have a voodoo doll called "Australia" looking like a porcupine by now.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 9 2020 2:02 utc | 28

Plus of course Guardian Australia, competing for a fast shrinking audience and even faster shrinking advertising dollar with The Sydney Morning Herald and The Melbourne Age (now both owned by a commercial TV channel formerly owned by Kerry Packer, the father of wannabe casino mogul James Packer), would try to inflate Australia's importance on the global stage even as that importance deflates faster than it inflates thanks to Maryse Payne's flailing about as Foreign Minister.

"Australia has stared down a potential backlash from China ..."

Did Guardian Australia get help from Guardian UK's failing creative fiction writers still with their heads in the clouds about Britain "standing alone" against the Luftwaffe back in 1940?

Posted by: Jen | Oct 9 2020 2:16 utc | 29

The hell with the uighurs. Let the Han meatgrinder chew them up.

Posted by: matamoros | Oct 9 2020 3:18 utc | 30

Its all very simple, overlap a map of the the BRI and current tension & conflict zones. Voilà..

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 9 2020 3:34 utc | 31

"Global Condemnation" is another favored Anglo weasel word phrase--just like other Anglo NewSpeak phrases like "International Community," the "Coalition of the Willing/Killing," or the "Free World."

The agenda of this Anglo NewSpeak is to manufacture the illusion of international consensus against a targeted nation justified by some propaganda pretext issue like, say, (non-existent) "Weapons of Mass Destruction," "Terrorism," "Human Rights," or "Freedom and Democracy" all in order to advance their true agenda: to maintain and expand Anglo American World Domination.

All else are lies.

Not freedom, not democracy, not human rights.

However, you have to give the Anglo-Americans credit--they are as devious as they are self-righteous.

The Anglo-American Axis countries have a unique talent for whipping themselves into a spittle-flecked moral lather denouncing XYZ nation--all to disguise their own more self-serving and predatory geopolitical ambitions.

Posted by: ak74 | Oct 9 2020 4:13 utc | 32

@26 Jen

Your link was not conclusive and I had to search for Chester and Spike but there it is in YouTube at this link. It's 44 seconds long and it was plenty to make me understand how the word "cringeworthy" has become a thing lately, in this lost and abandoned age in the west. And it described the US-Oz relationship with a more brutal accuracy, and tragic sadness, than I had realized possible.

Two paradigms for the price of one :(

Sorry for your loss. I live in the US. I think we share the same loss.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 9 2020 4:37 utc | 33

West use of " global condemnation " exposes its imperialistic thought, ie , the west represents the globe.

Posted by: KlcTan | Oct 9 2020 7:13 utc | 34

Grieved @ 31:

Thanks for commiserating but there is no need to feel sorry for us Australians. Most of us - even those who consider themselves highly educated and informed - still hero-worship the Americans and believe if only the US could get rid of Donald Trump and a few other so-called "bad apples", and reform its gun ownership laws, that the US and its institutions and structures are basically decent. Corruption is not seen as part of the nature of American culture even though skimming through the country's history reveals that corruption, greed and looking out for number one are at the very heart of US culture.

We Australians long ago abandoned any pretence of giving others a fair go, of helping the underdog and of treating everyone equally, if indeed we ever had such values.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 9 2020 10:39 utc | 35

@ jen - thanks for your posts... always informative... australia seems content to shoot itself in the foot..

Posted by: james | Oct 9 2020 15:58 utc | 36

William Blum has written numerous books about the Repulsive Menace known as AmeriKKKa and the evil its Satanists have inflicted on the World including, but not limited to, Killing Hope (1995), Rogue State (2000), and America's Deadliest Export (2013).

The first William Blum book I read was Killing Hope. It brought tears to my eyes, and I was a helluva lot older than 6 when I read it.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 9 2020 17:36 utc | 37

@19 Gepay

"Mchael Pettis does do good reporting on the chinese economy."

Michael Pettis got it wrong. In 2011, he made predictions for the rest of the decade.

One of his predictions is "Chinese growth will begin to slow sharply by 2013-14 and will hit an average of 3% well before the end of the decade."

In 2019 Chinese growth was 6%. If you do not believe the official numbers, you can refer to other figures like passenger car sales by luxury brands for rough verification. BMW/Mini, Audi, and Mercedes Benz each reported sales of about 700,000 cars in 2019. Luxury car sales have continued to rapidly increase this decade. That trend matches China's claim of being a $14 trillion economy in 2019 that has kept growing during the entire time period in question.

Posted by: benz | Oct 9 2020 19:43 utc | 38

I'm hoping they'll ask (Scum Mo) how much money he's getting, and from whom, to spout anti-China drivel?
And then tell him to STFU. He can't sack them all...
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 8 2020 19:55 utc | 21

Oz's Olympic athletes are pushing back.
A representative of the Winter Olympics athletes has pointed out that Oz corporations are profiting hugely from trade with China and wants Scum Mo to explain why athletes should be used as political tools by being asked to make meaningless gestures.

The ex Head Honcho of Oz's Olympic Committee has pointed out that the Olympics are a symbol of People to People worldwide unity and should be above politics. This bloke WILL tell Scum Mo (aka Mr Glib) to STFU if he doesn't grow a brain and grow up .. fast.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 10 2020 5:52 utc | 39

The article above omits to mention which 40 countries condemned Chinese human rights violations. The specifics of this list is highly important. If the list of 40 countries includes, for example, the UK, the USA, all 26 countries of the EU, India, Russia and some other large and / or powerful countries along with Australia, then China has to take this condemnation seriously.

If the list of 45 and 55 countries overlap, or consist mainly of small Pacific Islands, then we can pretty much discount their stance. It was not unknown in the past for Israel to persuade small islands to vote against UN motions on Palestine, in return for money or investment. I don't doubt China is doing much the same, and it would be interesting to see how many of the countries in the list that supported China are receiving Chinese money and investment, and how much they're getting.

They're the most important details to know before we can draw any conclusions about this.

Posted by: Nick | Oct 10 2020 15:08 utc | 40

@leavenworth (you wrote) -

"Large scale internment by China is best compared to Operation Demetrius by the British in early 1970s in Northern Ireland. About 2-3,000 Catholics out of a local Catholic population of one million were at any point during the period interned based on suspicion of terrorist sympathies. It would be proportionate criticism leveled at China to compare internment in Xinjiang to Northern Ireland."

Internment was 'imprisonment without trial' in plain English, being sent to prison for an indefinite period without any crime having been committed, or proven, and the suspension of all normal judicial oversight and process. At the time Britain introduced it, the Republic of Ireland tabled a motion at UN level to have it stopped on human rights grounds, but lost the motion because Britain was able to get more backers at UN level. The repercussions are still being felt, as inmates made allegations of torture against the British, including hooding, sleep deprivation, being subjected to severe manhandling and painfully loud noise. Legal cases were taken by former inmates, again which mainly went nowhere because the British legal system was not going to allow it. Remember it took almost two decades to get the Birmingham Six and Guilford Four (wrongfully convicted of bombings) released, and even then, the British legal system got around admitting a miscarriage of justice by saying the 'convictions were 'unsafe'...".

The irony of Internment is that Operation Motorman (the round up which preceded Internment) smashed its way into catholic / nationalist homes only, even though there were established protestant / loyalist terror groups operating at the time. This one sided treatment, and the fact that many if not most of those interned, were in fact not members of anything, only served to enrage and harden them and flooded the ranks of the IRA once they were released. So the very internment meant to 'put an end to terrorism' only dealt with one side of it in the community, and served as a massive recruitment effort for the very terrorist organizations supposed to be stymied by it.

So if you're comparing China to Northern Ireland, you might want to exercise some caution: internment only exacerbated the very problem it was meant to solve, and no doubt there are many formerly peaceful Uighurs who now hate all things Chinese with a vengeance thanks to how they are being abused at Han hands. Secondly, the conflict with the Uighurs was formented by Chinese Han expansion into that region, it's not as if the Uighurs were arriving in Beijing en masse. Couldn't the Chinese CCP and Han majority simply have left the Uighurs alone in their own corner of China? They seem to have managed along fine up to now, as did the Tibetans, until they were annexed by China in the 1950s.

Posted by: Nick | Oct 10 2020 15:30 utc | 41

China is number one for harvesting prisoners organs

Posted by: MelissaBoudreaux | Oct 11 2020 21:07 utc | 42

MelissaBoudreaux #42

China is number one for harvesting prisoners organs

Yeah, those Chinese make the best combine harvester imaginable. I prefer 🎹 pianos mostly.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 11 2020 21:44 utc | 43

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