Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 19, 2020
Bolivia Has Won. Will Trump Win Too?

It seems that Elon Musk has lost the election in Bolivia:

Even Morales’ nemesis, the rightwing interim president, Jeanine Áñez, conceded the left had come out on top. “We do not yet have the official count, but the data we do have shows that Mr Arce [has] … won the election. I congratulate the winners and ask them to govern thinking of Bolivia and of democracy,” Áñez tweeted.

Congratulation to the Movimiento al Socialismo, its candidate Luis Arce and the people of Bolivia who withstood the onslaught of intimidation and violence from the right and the military. Even as democracy is now restored in Bolivia it would be wrong to let the right and the military get away with what they have done. They will otherwise try to do it again. The coup leaders should be hauled in front of a court. Bolivia should ask Venezuela for advice on how to coup proof its military forces.

As the U.S. regime change operation in Caracas has failed, Washington will now revert to other measures to dispose of the leaders of that country. Sanctions for this or that bullshit reason are just around the corner. Bolivia must integrate itself with other socialist and 'resistance' nations and seek autonomy from imperialist imports.

Now onto the other election that is on peoples' mind.

While most polls show that Joe Biden will win the U.S. election my gut is telling me that Donald Trump will have a second term. The election might well become a repeat of  2016 when Trump won even though most media had predicted that Hillary Clinton would win.

There are two main reasons for this. The local ground game and enthusiasm for the candidates.

The Democrats have neglected the ground game. Their get out the vote efforts seem minimal. Meanwhile the Republicans are going from door to door and have registered large number of voters:

Republican registration has ticked up in key states at the same time Democratic field operations were in hibernation. Democratic turnout is surging in the early vote. But it’s unclear whether it will be enough to overcome an expected rush of ballots that Republicans, leerier of mail voting, will cast in person on Election Day.

There is uncertainty about the accuracy of polling in certain swing states, the efficacy of GOP voter suppression efforts and even the number of mail-in ballots that for one reason or another will be disqualified.

Biden has collected more donations than Trump but money can only buy him advertisement. Trump gets media attention for free due to the constant outrage the Democrats project on him.

The second reason for predicting a Trump win is the enthusiasm of his supporters. Video shows thousands of people standing at the streets to wave at a passing Trump convoy in California. Meanwhile Biden goes out to read from giant teleprompters to empty parking lots.

While Trump will be campaigning all week Biden decided to stay at home to prepare for the next debate. How can he defend himself against the serious corruption accusations that his son's emails seem to support?

The Democrats under Biden have shunned the progressive policies who brought the most enthusiasm to the primaries. Everyone presumes that the center-right Biden is just a stand in who will be removed soon to be replaced by the center-right Kamala Harris. Harris has been Hillary Clinton's choice since at least mid 2017. During the primaries she never polled higher than 2%. Politically she is not an attractive candidate.

The other people behind the Biden/Harris campaigns are just the same warmongers who wreaked havoc all over the world during the Obama administration.

Max Abrahms @MaxAbrahms – 22:14 UTC · Oct 18, 2020

I’m expecting America to get needlessly involved in more conflicts in the name of democracy, freedom, credibility, resolve & leadership. Just listen to folks like Michèle Flournoy, Mayor Pete, Susan Rice. Non-intervention has been branded as a Putin gift. We live in stupid times.

Patrick Porter @PatPorter76 · 5h

I'm skeptical of whether a Biden presidency will significantly draw down US military presence in ME. As well as the general forces that favour inertia, there will always be more pressing things for a new Democrat president to do.

Trump has botched the response to the pandemic. But would a Democratic president have done better against the resistance of many states against harsher control measures? The reasons the U.S. was hit so hard are in my view ingrained in its society. A different president would have prepared somewhat better but the outcome would likely not have been much different.

On most domestic issues Trump is only slightly to the right of a Biden/Harris administration. His foreign policy is less warmongering but more chaotic than a Democratic administration would likely be. That makes him in total more preferable to me.

That does not mean that I would vote for Trump. If I had a vote in the upcoming election it would likely go to where it does the least harm – to some third party candidate who argues for more peaceful and more socialist policies.

Comments

I wonder if the folks earnestly proclaiming their faith that “Trump hasn’t started a war… YET! are the same ones who used to say “Obama hasn’t fought for Single Payer…YET!
We’re supposed to base our votes on your ongoing delusions about what you think might happen some time in the future?
Obama never lifted a finger for Single Payer, and I think you are just as wrong about Trump’s desire for war as well. Biden has a proven track record of supporting imperialist war, and Trump’s desire for war is still just some unsupported vague assertions by Trump Derangement Syndrome” victims.
I am not voting Democrat ever again, so if your imperative truly is defeating Trump and you need the vote of people like me, then you need to dump the Dims and throw your energy into a third party.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 19 2020 23:59 utc | 101

Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal and blew up Soleimani in the middle of peace talks. Trump is proudly occupying Eastern Syria to steal its oil, cheering on the theft of Palestine, and defying the Senate to maintain the genocidal siege of Yemen. I don’t know what it takes to kill off the fantasy that he’s less of a warmonger. Fantasies die hard I guess.
As for the coronavirus: it’s silly to pretend a Dem president would have handled it as badly as Trump. Do you really think a Dem president would have dismantled the pandemic taskforce beforehand, ridiculed scientists at every turn, repeatedly insisted the virus will vanish, insulted people for wearing masks, and incited armed lunatics to storm state legislatures to prevent basic public health measures?

Posted by: Sigil | Oct 20 2020 0:02 utc | 102

Rahshia Rahshia Rahshia and only what’s good for Russia. That’s what your entire commentary is really about.
What about loser Trump’s hostile moves towards Iran, China, Palestine and Venezuela? That’s better foreign policy than his opponent who wants to reinstate the JCPOA?
That Hunter Biden red herring is toothless and hobbling on one leg next to the Grifter President with a tightly guarded closet full of corruption skeletons and criminal campaign violations.
You still don’t get it, do you? Or maybe you can’t handle the truth you know is already a done deal.:
THIS ELECTION IS STRICTLY ABOUT GETTING RID OF TRUMP FOR THE RIGHT, LEFT AND CENTRE, PERIOD.
…and people are braving 4 to 6 hours in wrap-around early voting lines to prove it.
Your last paragraph is a joke! You should have put this in the title instead.:
Hey, all you disenchanted on the Left, please vote 3rd Party so Trump can be re-elected, pretty please?
Actually, the one in Bold caps reflects your true state of mind much better…desperation.
How disingenuous can you be?
Trump will win, my ass! Like you predicted the Dems would lose the House, right?
When it comes to predictions, stick to your day job.
Today Trump bellowed: Fauci is a disaster and an idiot!
He was projecting from his State of Meltdown, of course…
I’ll be modest: I predict a repeat of 2018, and I’ll link this article of yours in my comment when the winner is declared after ALL the votes are counted and I get to eat your lunch as a bonus.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 0:18 utc | 103

A giant influx of new posters right around election time.
If you look back at 2016 on the eve of that one, I’m sure b would have the metrics to confirm the influx of new blood then, too.
Just sayin’. Talk is cheap. It will be a prolonged affair, the vote counting. Someone mentioned WI going blue. Doubt it.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 20 2020 0:19 utc | 104

By far the best comment is Steve M @ 42. There is not much difference in policies between the two candidates then voting for either candidate is an issue of morality, that is lack of it. The usual middle-of-the-road commenters Red Ryder and William Gruff are also excellent.
Before, I staked a claim that this US election is, in essence, to select a US Gorbachev. This is because I do not believe that US will remain as is now by the end of either candidate’s mandate.
Therefore, for a moment, let us look at US after the election.
Under Trump, elected by the Russians (LOL), we can expect more direct confrontation with vested interests preventing any reform of US. Slightly reduced support to Israel. Then grassy knoll? There will be no new wars, but the old wars will return and continue (as a concession to MIC). But, most importantly of all, there will be no military attack on Iran under Trump. Something in the US financial system finally cracks and bye, bye US and good part of the world’s finances. US falls apart into several semi-hostile countries.
Under Harris, elected by the Chinese (LOL), and Clinton as DefSec, the previous aggressive globalist Dems agenda continues despite that US has already lost its global military supremacy. Then, as the Russian and the Chinese patience is mostly exhausted, the US will get a bloody nose somewhere. Potentially, the World turns into a radioactive heap. Around the same time, something in the US financial system cracks and bye, bye US. Under Harris mafia, the financial disaster is practically a certainty.
BTW, I understand the logic of US dissolving the strategic nuclear agreements. US has always thrived on creating enemies when not having. Thus US policy has successfully united the countries and the nuclear forces of Russia and China, as MIC always wanted – the bigger the “threat” the bigger the money waterfall. The US is now outmatched by the alliance so spend spend spend.
PS. Yes, if you vote for Harris, you are voting for Killary Clinton as Secretary of Defense. Wanna bet?

Posted by: Kiza | Oct 20 2020 0:26 utc | 105

Maybe if you actually quoted what I said rather than a made up straw man to knock down, this reply wouldn’t have been necessary.

I wonder if the folks earnestly proclaiming their faith that “Trump hasn’t started a war… YET!” are the same ones who used to say “Obama hasn’t fought for Single Payer…YET!”

In fact, what I said was that Trump hasn’t SUCCESSFULLY started a NEW hot war YET. I added the “successfully” this time because if you think that the Soleimani assassination was anything other than an attempt to force Iran to retaliate in kind, thus providing the excuse that it’s obvious to anyone who’s looking which Trump and his neocon cabinet are eagerly awaiting to “justify” a shooting war with Iran. That’s just Iran. The rabbit named several other things. But sticking to Iran, and keeping all the relevant contextual and historical information in mind – where else is for Trump’s administration to go now that the “maximum pressure” powder keg is down to a few grains?
Regarding Obama, completely off the topic and not a logical analogy at all. In case you’ve forgotten, Obama took “single payer” off the table from the first month of his presidency. It was a non-starter. Anyone hoping for Obama to implement socialized medicine was delusional, but I frankly don’t think there were any such people, and I question your judgment for using that analogy.
A more apt analogy would be the election of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Being from Texas at the time, and familiar with the Bush Crime Family, their connections, and Cheney’s known wishes to steal the oil from Iraq, I told people before they elected him that he would start a war. I had no idea on what pretext at the time, and like most, I was initially shocked by 9/11. But the writing was on the wall, just as it is with Trump and a 2nd term.
Seriously, if you *don’t* think Trump will start a war, relatively quickly upon re-election, I think you’re holding onto a delusion colored by whatever position you THINK (wrongly) that I’m coming from. Again, here we have all the messaging and previous actions we’d ever need to assume with a high degree of certainty that Trump wants, and will wage, war on Iran. If you can’t see it, you’re intentionally not looking.
Finally, none of this has anything to do with the other ticket. You can read my comment again if you missed the part where I said he is a corporate/bankster owned warmonger and would laugh at any “defund the police” attempts. This is about Trump, and my near 100% certainty that he will SUCCESSFULLY start a war in his second term where he FAILED despite a strong series of attempts in his first.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 0:29 utc | 106

President Trump and Joseph R. Biden Jr. will be muted during portions of Thursday’s final presidential debate, an effort by the organizers to avoid the unruly spectacle that played out at the candidates’ first meeting in Cleveland last month. As in the first debate, each candidate will be allotted two minutes of speaking time to initially answer the moderator’s questions. But under a plan announced on Monday by the Commission on Presidential Debates, his opponent’s microphone will be turned off during that period, an attempt to ensure an uninterrupted response. After the candidates finish their two-minute replies, they will be allowed to freely engage with one another for the remainder of the segment. (The debate is divided into six segments of 15 minutes apiece.)

I prefer sticking a sock in their mouths for most of the segment. Preferably a dirty sock that was washed in a sewer as that would be appropriate for the content of their mouths.
Seriously, who cares? The depth of the uselessness of US “democracy” is demonstrated by the fact that even b thinks Trump might be “better” than Biden to some ridiculously limited degree. That anyone can even think in terms of “better” or “worse” – splitting nuanced hairs finer than a nanothread – is beyond me.
If you want to think that Trump is somehow “better” at collapsing the “American Empire”, fine. You’re probably wrong there, too. But even if you’re right, what are any of you going to do about it, other than bitch and moan? I’ll tell you – absolutely nothing. That’s because you think there won’t actually be any street-level consequences you’ll have to deal with personally.
It reminds me of a line some Situationist once said. It was something about how if you ask people what part of current society should remain after “the Revolution”, it turns out to be almost everything. And for most “revolutions”, that’s exactly the case.
It’s also like all the preppers who actually *want* there to be a collapse of civilization just so they can prove they were right about preparing for it. They assume because they are “prepared” that they will be the ones who survive. I even catch myself drifting into that level of thinking on occasion. So it’s the case that most people either assume there won’t be an real consequences once “the Empire” falls or that they’ll be exempt because they were “on the right side of history.”
As people like Selco Begovic have pointed out from the Bosnia crisis – it doesn’t work like that. Go read this stuff: Full text of “The SHTF Anthology Selco”

Illusions were the first victims when SHTF. Here are a few of many:
“There are police, this cannot happen. There is law, this is against the law.” Actually, the police are police when the system works. When it does not work, the police are just a bunch of trained people with weapons, and it is completely up to them what they are going to do.
“I have rights.” Yes, when there is a system and law to protect those rights. If you want to have rights when SHTF you have to be ready to protect them.
“I have gun and lot of ammo. I will firmly stand my ground.” Good luck with that. There is a huge number of people already organized in violent groups, ready and skilled in violence, who wait for the system to collapse to jump in. People with more guns, more ammo, more skills than you, and less morals and ethics. You need to lower your expectations.
“This kind of chaos cannot happen here (in the US). We have the best political system in the world.” This is my favorite actually because in my case the S. did hit the fan. For some period of time I was repeating this to myself, and even more, something like “This can happen only in some country in Africa, not here.
Somebody going to stop this.” It can happen, and actually, it would be very bad because fall is going to be bigger. It is going to hurt much more, and people are going to be shocked much more.
Anything else to add?
I have seen many people killed, a lot of women and children too, civilians. A huge number of people suffered, were hungry and cold and were terrified through that period.
But I can count on one hand the dead or hungry politicians in that time. Things were good for them through that period. Some of them ended up even
richer. A lot of them are still powerful in the same or different parties and are still talking about “their people” or “causes” or “fear from others”.
It is the way it works.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 0:36 utc | 107

Whoever interfered with what was about to result in a just karma and gave that ungrateful, scumbag Trump the experimental monoclonal antibodies on a compassionate basis should be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 0:58 utc | 108

Posted by: Lee Sonne | Oct 19 2020 23:56 utc | 101
I haven’t seen any reports of any exit polling for early voting or any other counts, for that matter. Do you have any good sources for this? It is possible that I skipped over something due to the EU cookie policy and how it affects many U.S. websites. Generally I don’t accept their cookies and if the process to view the page anyway gets convoluted enough, I just blow it off. Either way, I’ve seen nothing about anybody leading or trailing at this point.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 1:02 utc | 109

Viva MAS!
Now, Arce must rid the Army and Police of all those officers made in Panama via School Of the Americas.
He should borrow a page from Francois Duvalier who raised a Sargent all the way up to Coronel by successive decrees in a single day. Faithful to the very end.
And a Captain to General chief of staff in a single day.
Forget about the colophon. Get rid of the rotten ones and keep the US Embassy and all US NGOs out of the country.

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 20 2020 1:39 utc | 110

@111_K_C_
You’re way too nice, so allow me put it as it deserves to be put.
Lee Sonne has no sources cause he pulled that assumption out of his ass.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 1:43 utc | 111

@ William Gruff 103
hear! hear!
The main issue is war, and Trump hasn’t started any wars. Even on China there is no talk of the US defending Taiwan. The US position has been and is for Taiwan to buy articles it needs for its own asymmetric (‘cuz their army sucks) defense. . . .Russia? They’re okay.
You want war? Destruction, death, displacement? Vote Biden. You’ll justify Obama’s crappy war reign by doing so.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 20 2020 1:47 utc | 112

@bob sykes (51)
Have you forgotten the 2000 judicial coup in which the Supreme Court anointed George W. Bush president in response to a legal challenge entered by Republican operatives to stop the Florida recount? This was completely unnecessary, as Florida already had in place a well defined process for dealing with close, contested elections. The Supreme Court went so far as to state that their decision would apply to the Bush v Gore case exclusively and could not be cited as precedent in future cases. So clearly, a partisan majority of the Court felt it was their proper role to intervene to ensure the installation of a conservative president over a less conservative one. If they did it once, they can do it again, especially given the far right wing bent of the current/soon-to-be Court.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 20 2020 1:47 utc | 113

@Don Bacon (114) “You want war? Destruction, death, displacement? Vote Biden.”
And if you want full-on, punch-in-the-mouth fascism, vote Trump. Let’s face it, both parties together comprise a single War Party. Trump is far from the pacifist that some people imagine he is. Jeez, just look at the butchery and starvation going on in Yemen, which he fully supports.

Posted by: Rob | Oct 20 2020 1:57 utc | 114

@ steven t johnson | Oct 19 2020 21:42 utc | 85.. thanks steve… so it runs all the way back to 1792…. i didn’t realize people were complaining about this for that long!
@ _K_C_ | Oct 19 2020 22:39 utc | 91 thanks k.c… that makes more sense as it is a bit more recent…
Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 0:18 utc | 105 quote “I’ll be modest: I predict a repeat of 2018, and I’ll link this article of yours in my comment when the winner is declared after ALL the votes are counted and I get to eat your lunch as a bonus.”
i am confused by your prediction… what is a repeat of 2018? what happened in 2018 in relation to the presidential election here?? thanks..

Posted by: james | Oct 20 2020 2:42 utc | 115

@ Rob 116
Yemen is a panty-raid compared to the death & destruction Obama/Biden did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya . . the list goes on. Trump is anti-war when compared to Biden. Nobody (but you) refers to Trump as a pacifist “that some people imagine.” Let’s talk facts, not imagination. Imagine that!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 20 2020 2:44 utc | 116

@109 Richard Steven Hack
You’ve been advocating the viewpoint from Bosnia from some time, and perhaps the record will show that the situation in the US became desolate enough that someone downloaded Selco’s article. I just did, and over time I’ll read it.
I should say thank you, and forgive me if I don’t sound enthusiastic. There is indeed a lot of ruin in a nation, and one is never completely sure which ledge of temporary safety one perches on.
But yes, we know nothing in the US of the realities of the shit hitting the fan, and in almost every other country there is some benchmark to go by.
~~
Isn’t it a strange country we live in? What a delight to be here, with such an easy way of getting by every day. And what horror lies in wait around every corner.
Horror such that the entire culture of the country is written by those who turned the corner and found only unicorns waiting to pull their coach – that means me, and also you, RSH, until the SHTF for you and opened your eyes.
I will borrow your opened eyes to explore some possibilities for the future, on the way it works – and thank you for your offering to the community. Truly, many thanks.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 20 2020 2:45 utc | 117

Lol @ Trump accidentally revealing he faked having coronavirus
Vote him out!

Posted by: Nick | Oct 20 2020 2:45 utc | 118

But would a Democratic president have done better against the resistance of many states against harsher control measures?
Yes, for example Obama would have treated the crisis as real and very serious as early as Dec. 2020. Would he have been perfect? Far from it, but he would have been vastly better than DJT. So too would have Bill Clinton.
Trump inherited a bad economy from Obama, and Trump, like Obama has only done things for the very rich, and big corporations. Trump is widely detested outside of his base, and it’s not his base that “won” him the election (there’s serious evidence he lost Florida and Michigan–there for the election) in 2016.
b. Remember how wrong you were about the House midterms.
Trump could “win” in Nov, but not without cheating, and likely quite public cheating, so unlike the hidden cheating of 2016.

Posted by: Jay | Oct 20 2020 2:51 utc | 119

@114 Don Bacon
You’re nuts. Quit with the calculating histrionics. Biden is 79. He doesn’t need war abroad! Trump will leave him an economy in shambles and a raging pandemic that will be out of control by December, overloading the healthcare system, and 20 million more people without healthcare once the Conservative Court Trump set up strikes down the ACA right after the Election and unemployment at an all-time high; that’s tens of millions who lost their jobs dependent on government assistance and thousands of businesses bankrupt. That in itself is a domestic war on multiple fronts of massive proportions.
Your Trump should be locked up in prison or an insane asylum for his depraved negligence.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 2:59 utc | 120

@ circe… see my comment to you @ 117..

Posted by: james | Oct 20 2020 3:01 utc | 121

Who’s the bigger war criminal, Goering or Himmler?
Both Obama and Trump are criminals. I don’t know why people split hairs to make one look better. Both have innocent blood on their hands.
I do not get the soft peddling of Trump’s war crimes.
1. Yemen, true Obama started it but Trump made the killing of Yemeni children into an art form.
2. Syria, Obama funded rebels. Trump gives them safe zones, cuts them off from their own oil, and is imposing a total blockade on country. Plenty of Syrians, Iranians, and Venezuelans are dying because of Trump’s criminal psychopathic rage.
By any consistent standard, Obama and Trump are identical on the ‘starting wars’ front. Neither of them started an official war but both illegally bombed other countries and supported color revolutions. Trump did so in Venezuela, Bolivia, and a civilian infrastructure sabotage campaign inside Iran.
Trump came closer than Obama in starting a real war. If the the well provoked Iranian missile attack had killed even one American he would have been forced to respond and there would have been thousands of dead Americans before daybreak. Netanyahu would have died from a heart attack dancing Hava Nagila all night.
Trump is an evil. Himmler or Goebbels? I don’t have to pick who is more vile.
Biden will be just as bad but he too will be a one termer. One term Presidents hurt the Empire.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Oct 20 2020 3:05 utc | 122

@117 james
Blue wave took the House, dum-dum.
You’re confused? So what else is new?

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 3:06 utc | 123

@ circe.. i am not an american… i guess you still haven’t figured that out yet… thanks for your response either way… so, no 2020 president prediction from you, but a prediction on the senate or ‘house’??

Posted by: james | Oct 20 2020 3:14 utc | 124

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 20 2020 2:45 utc | 119
You’re welcome. Of all the links and articles posted here at MoA, that one is going to turn out to be the most important at some point. And most will have ignored it because it comes from me.
I gotta laugh at people proclaiming everyone should vote for Trump because he hasn’t started a war. Like this guy has any real say in the matter. If the Deep State wants a war, it’s easy enough to get one (not saying it’s easy to actually get it started, you don’t just start it on any given day, but it’s not dependent on just the President’s say-so.) Sure, Trump is a crazy enough narcissistic lunatic that he might – for his own stupid irrational reasons – just decide to stand down any such attempt to start a war. But if the Deep State couldn’t figure out a way around that, he’d end up like John Kennedy damn fast.
People who claim those of us who point out that “Trump hasn’t started a war – yet” – are basing our negativity on what might happen in the future, rather than what has happened (Trump not having started a new war). But they’re basing their pro-Trump vote on what they think will happen in the future – namely, a continuation of the past. This, despite the fact that tensions have only risen to absurd heights over the last four years, not only against Iran and Russia, but China as well. Trump has done absolutely *nothing* to reduce tensions anywhere. As a lunatic narcissist, he clearly doesn’t want to be *blamed* for starting a new war, but he’s show *zero* interest in *preventing* a new war. It’s simply all about him, and given his magical thinking, it’s impossible to rely on someone like that for consistency.
But it’s just cognitive dissonance for these people again. They don’t *want* to believe that Trump is just waiting for a second term to start a new war – when it won’t matter to his re-election if he does so – so they don’t believe it. They really think Trump is a powerful figure that can control the entire Deep State and prevent a war regardless of his complete lack of comprehension of anything related to foreign policy, the military, or the geopolitical situation.
And China is the biggest danger – because they don’t have 5,000 nukes like Russia has. So the morons in the Deep State think they can push China around more easily than Russia, risking the destruction of many of the Major Metropolitan Areas of the US in the process. A war with Iran would be seriously bad – but a war with China will almost inevitably go nuclear. Any attempt by the US to use air and naval power – without nukes – against China is doomed to fail badly with the loss of much of the US’ naval assets and air bases in the entire region. This will force the US into using nukes, at least to some degree, against Chinese bases if not cities. That will result in inevitable escalation to full-scale nuclear war. Russia remembers the German invasion. China remembers the Japanese invasion. They are not going to allow the US to defeat them and force them to do what the US wants.
Sure, Biden and Harris will go along with that. But so will Trump – because he started and continued the conflict to date. So how anyone can consider either Trump or Biden as some sort of “improvement” is just ludicrous. It’s an example of how this sort of “contest” draws in fools into its logic, forcing people to pick sides instead of realizing that the only side of importance to any sentient entity is *your side.*
Rather than discussing what either Trump or Biden will do, we should be discussing what *we’re* going to do if – and when – things actually do get worse, how they will get worse and when. Everything else is just, as The Blazing Saddles preacher said, “jacking off”.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 3:16 utc | 125

It is arguable and unprovable whether Trump or Biden presidency will lead to more or less wars. The judging of the future based on the past or on election promises makes many assumptions. It also assumes that foreign policy is under the complete control of the POTUS.
Afghanistan and Iraq have been the turning point whereby the empire realised that full on invasions and total war is no longer acceptable. The consequences of the colonialist being endlesslesly bogged down in a stalemate was Is unattractive.Subsequent adventures such as Libya and Syria showed a change in tactics and more relian ce on local proxies with threatening occasional use of punishing air raids and such action. In Yemen The war was franchised entirely To Gulf states and KSA. This current phase also sees the use of more blatant, in your face often botched attempts at regime change by colour revolution methods. And finally the sanctions tool has become one of choice to strangle countries such as Iran. These changes in US foreign policies are not going to suddenly change because of a change from Trump, who has little understanding of other countries and issues, and is just a populist figure not afraid to use divisive internal measures. This is really where a change I may be discernible and Trump’ re-election is more likely to increase US internal unrest. Foreign policy will not change.

Posted by: Orage | Oct 20 2020 3:50 utc | 126

W @100
There is zero evidence that SARS cov 2 is a bio weapon.

Posted by: Orage | Oct 20 2020 3:53 utc | 127

Der Twitterführer will win for these reasons:
1. He’s the establishment choice this time, which is why a senile corrupt far right wing war criminal with a far right wing, totally unlikeable, running mate was put up against him.
2. The so called opinion polls are just for show. Opinion polls are almost always bought and paid for and seldom to never depict reality anyway, but in this case have a direct connection with the fact that Trump is going to win: the opinion polls are designed to, after he wins, let Killarybots shriek again that “Russia stole the election” and continue the build up of the ongoing World War III.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 20 2020 4:01 utc | 128

Below is a short quote from a Reuters posting about Trump

Trump told the rally: “Don’t forget, I’m not bad at that stuff anyway, and I’m president. So I call some guy, the head of Exxon. I call the head of Exxon. I don’t know.”
Trump went on to describe a hypothetical conversation: “How are you doing? How’s energy coming? When are you doing the exploration? Oh, you need a couple of permits?”
“When I call the head of Exxon I say, ‘You know, I’d love (for you) to send me $25 million for the campaign.’ ‘Absolutely sir,’” Trump added.

The posting included a press release from Exxon saying that no such conversation has occurred…. Does Trump not see that the same folks that he wants to be upset about the Hunter Biden scandal also don’t think he should even joke about hitting up multinational corps for funding his political race.
I agree with RSH at #127 about Trump not starting wars delusional folk but see it from a different context.
When empire lost control of the war in Syria because of Russian involvement with China backing, it changed the war vector of empire structurally. Venezuela is a more recent example of the new war vector where empire is stymied by the Russia/China axis. And then there is Iran where empire continues to lose ground. Belarus is the latest example and empire is still flailing with fallback measures.
So, as far as hot wars go there may be a lessening but as I continue to write here, from a bigger picture context, humanity is in a civilization war that has intensified under the Trump vector. The Trump vector of war is bullying, sanctions, tariffs, etc. against countries that don’t adhere to the global private finance “rules of the liberal international order”.
Until and unless folks see this civilization war context they will continue to misinterpret what war really is……not always measured in body bags but still be waged intensely.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20 2020 4:07 utc | 129

Voting for Biden equals voting 100% for Xi Jingping; with Trump we have a chance to claw back out of grip of the major globalist stockholders – CCP top combine, the “enriched” 0.1%.

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 20 2020 4:18 utc | 130

Antonym @132
You assume that there is collusion between the CCP and the globalists and this benefits the 0.1%? Did I get that right? You seem therefore also if I read you correctly to be saying that trump is not part of the globalist 0.1%. Is this assertion based on facts or just gut feelings?
The CCP has elevated millions of people out of poverty and although has relaxed many of the rules of communism, remains committed to the Chinese people. Witness how China did not only manage to control the SARS COV 2 epidemic in China, but is now showing steady growth amounting to 5% with industry back in operation. In the chaotic US Trump has managed 200,000 deaths and a huge number of cases and his re-election could lead to serious civil unrest. Let not prejudices get in the way of facts please.

Posted by: Orage | Oct 20 2020 4:38 utc | 131

Yada yada yada yawn.
Everyone sticking to their long established opinions on which is better, red or blue, is just so damned boring in this contest between tweedledum & tweedledee, I reckon that if posters insist on pushing forward on positions that are so emotive and irrational, they should at least be forced to put some skin in the game by stating unequivocally what policy position it is that they believe dopey joe will adopt that orangeutan will not. Similarly those who advocate orangeutan should state what policy position that dopey joe advocates which they believe orangeutan will not.
For example many imagine dopey will ressurrect the jcpoa or drop sanctions against Venezuela & domestically put more dollars into assisting the 99% through covid 19 than will go to the 1%. Now I’m sure dopey or his replacement harris will do none of those things differently than orangeutan would, but at least if you state it here where we can see, if dopey does win, those who advocate for biden can be held to account by the rest of us.
Same goes for orangeutan supporters tell us what his policy differences are with dopey. If you believe he will not start a war if he wins a second term, tell us. My view is that orangeutan wasn’t interested in war early on because he was set on copping earners from other industries, however that was rectified about halfway through his first term, by warmongers who realised that ensuring trump copped a slice, was an essential prerequisite for getting the prez to back ‘kinetic’ imperial projects.
There is one powerful reason for not supporting either scumbag, i.e. for voting 3rd party or not voting at all, and that is I for one have always believed if you give someone your vote and he or she wins, you the person who voted for the winner is just as responsible for what they do once in office as the candidate her/his self.
Ticking a box then walking away from the result is the act of an insincere self server. Commit or get off the pot.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2020 4:43 utc | 132

psychohistorian @Oct20 4:07 #131
… empire is stymied by the Russia/China axis.
To some degree. They are unwilling to engage in a shooting war but still pushing forward.
=
So, as far as hot wars go there may be a lessening … The Trump vector of war is bullying, sanctions, tariffs, etc.
IMO that “lessening” is not because Trump prefers “bullying , sanctions, tariffs, etc.” as much as it is the public needs to be prepared for a major war (possible a world war). They need a patriotic leader that wins battles against internal and external opponents and who’s call to unite against a common enemy is respected.
With his defeat of Covid-19, the “radical left”, and Biden/Democratic establishment corruption, Trump is the larger-than-life populist 2-term President that can lead the country to war. And Trump has already identified the common enemy via his “China virus” and “China will pay” rhetoric.
=
“Civilization War”
I’m sure how this term differs from “Cold War” (between great powers) or “fourth-generation war” conducted against a range of Empire adversaries.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 4:50 utc | 133

“Trump likens Hunter Biden’s ‘laptop from hell’ to Anthony Weiner’s notorious drive” https://nypost.com/2020/10/19/trump-likens-hunter-bidens-laptop-from-hell-to-anthony-weiner/
Weiner’s laptop was seized by the FBI with a search warrant but than its investigation delayed by McCabe, Strzok, Page and ignored by the MSM.
Much like HRC’s closet e-mail server loaded with classified stuff in 2014.
Biden’s laptop was found out by a Delaware computer repair man and got into the hands of the NYPOST.COM, and again side tracked by the FBI and MSM.

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 20 2020 4:50 utc | 134

Correction: I’m not sure …
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 4:53 utc | 135

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20 2020 4:07 utc | 131
Good point about the overall context of the conflict. I still suspect that, historically speaking, when countries are at each others’ throats to this degree, it usually ends up being a shooting war at some point and on some level. There’s only so much bullying you can do before 1 of 2 things happens: 1) the target learns to deal with it and go on with what they were doing, forcing you to up the ante, or 2) they start pushing back hard enough that you either have to start shooting or back down – and since the people who control you don’t face any real consequences, they don’t let you back down.
Similarly, in terms of a US “civil war”, it’s not going to be the same sort of thing as the original. It will look more like Turkey or Italy in the ’70’s when the Grey Wolves and the Red Brigades were terrorizing the civilian population. You’re at home some night, your phone rings, and some unknown voice tells you your wife is going to die because she’s a teacher, or whatever. Or someone throws a fire-bomb through your front window in the middle of the night. Your brother-in-law gets grabbed as he’s getting out of his car to open the garage, he’s whisked away into a car at the curb, and his body is found a couple days later, having been tortured and strangled or shot. That stuff already happens on a low level in the US, mostly to people in the drug trade or street gangs. I can see it easily escalating to the level of the ’70’s in those countries – but here in the US – if the divisiveness continues, and people get desperate over their economic situation, blaming it on whatever they’ve been brainwashed to believe by one side or the other.
The problem is figuring out when things are going to happen and how much time one has left to either derail it or prepare for it before things get out of hand.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 5:00 utc | 136

@ Orage | 133
Trump the real estate dealer is not part of the majority of global stockholders. Real estate is very localized.
What the CCP did with covid-19 virus and info about it still remains to be evaluated, as CCP China is a totally closed society where whistle blowing is even deadlier and thus rarer than in the US/UK. Inside China The Party manipulates news to an extent that makes Western MSM jealous; they already have the Great Chinese Fire Wall since years remember?
National GDP growth at any cost is only the aim of arch capitalists, not of a healthy humanity. How much money do we take with us at time of death?

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 20 2020 5:03 utc | 137

@michaelj72 | Oct 19 2020 23:18 utc | 94

sorry to go on, but these existential issues that are being essentially ignored by both american political parties and the capitalist Ruling Elites of the world make for a very sorry spectacle in the final years/decades of the human race.

Sorry to disappoint, but “climate change” has been the government/oligarch/media favourite auhtoritarian sport the last 20 years. The idea that ‘climate’ is constant is absurd, the climate is always changing. The vikings did agriculture on Greenland 1000 years ago when it was much warmer (medieval warm period), they had to abandon Greenland in the 1300s when it got too cold. Now we are entering solar cycle 25 and it is already snowing outside my window as I write this, solar cycle 25 will be even less active than cycle 24 that was the lowest in 100 years.
‘Climate change’, with the laughable claim that a trace gas of 400 ppm (too low for effective photosynthesis) is causing the world to end, is failing to produce the authoritarian objectives. It is being replaced by something else you cannot see: a supposed ‘virus’ that is statistically non-existent but propped up for political purposes. These are both straight from the user manual of pathological science (the science of things that aren’t so).

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 5:04 utc | 138

IMO the biggest danger of a shooting war is that China invades Taiwan because USA crosses the Chinese ‘red line’ by selling advanced weapons to Taiwan.
F-35s and anti-ship missiles today could be followed by even more powerful weapons systems later. Will China accept the possibility of a future Taiwan armed with USA-provided hypersonic missiles?
I doubt that a Biden victory would stop whatever is planned. But I think Trump is positioned to be much more effective at rallying the American people to war than Biden.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 5:07 utc | 139

@Circe | Oct 20 2020 0:18 utc | 105

THIS ELECTION IS STRICTLY ABOUT GETTING RID OF TRUMP FOR THE RIGHT, LEFT AND CENTRE, PERIOD.

Yes, forget about any policies or ideas, it is all about hating Trump (bad as he is), but not about offering any meaningful policy for the people of the US and especially not for the rest of the world.
The only certainty with this kind of attitude is that the US will slide further down hill.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 5:12 utc | 140

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2020 4:43 utc | 134 the person who voted for the winner is just as responsible for what they do once in office as the candidate her/his self. Ticking a box then walking away from the result is the act of an insincere self server. Commit or get off the pot.
Agreed. We anarchists like to respond to the claim that since we don’t vote we can’t complain about the outcome with: “Au contraire, mon frere. We’re the only ones who can complain.”
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 4:50 utc | 135 IMO that “lessening” is not because Trump prefers “bullying , sanctions, tariffs, etc.” as much as it is the public needs to be prepared for a major war (possible a world war).
Agreed. As I mentioned above, “one does not just start a war” – cue Sean Bean – one morning when one wakes up on the wrong side of the bed. There’s always some trepidation even among those pushing for the war. War is a big enterprise that frequently gets out of control and doesn’t go the way you think it will. So even the warmongers are wary about it. And they’re also wary about being blamed for it, which is why they spend so much effort building up a casus belli, no matter how bogus.
“Trump is the larger-than-life populist 2-term President that can lead the country to war. And Trump has already identified the common enemy via his “China virus” and “China will pay” rhetoric.”
Indeed. Trump started with Iran, which we knew in advance, then included Venezuela (which I didn’t see coming), and then ramped up China so fast it made everyone’s head spin. Trump is much more the “alpha male” than Biden is. As I said before about all his supporters, those guys represent themselves as some sort of “rebels” when in reality they’re just “beta followers.” But that applies to the rest of the voting electorate just as much.
OTOH, it may not matter who is perceived as the “alpha” in terms of leading the US to war. What matters is how consistent the message is uttered by the government and carried by the MSM. I don’t see any change in the ability of the government to brainwash the electorate since the Iraq war. A poll some years ago during the Obama administration showed 70-odd percent of the electorate believed Iran had actual nuclear weapons – not just an alleged weapons program. That shows how effective such brainwashing can be – even after the Iraq war pile of BS used to start that war. And someone here alleged that China is now seen in a negative light more than ever before. I can easily see that escalating without much effort on the part of whoever is President.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 5:18 utc | 141

@ Circe | Oct 20 2020 0:58 utc | 110

Whoever interfered with what was about to result in a just karma and gave that ungrateful, scumbag Trump the experimental monoclonal antibodies on a compassionate basis should be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail.

Obviously, some posters here wanted Trump to die so hard that they believed it would happen (and even said so!) even though anyone with an ants brain could see it was total theater, he never had anything. Now that this has been long since proven, the facts are still being denied.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 5:22 utc | 142

Yay, Bolivia! Pleasantly surprised that the CIA didn’t manage to fudge the vote (yet).
OTOH, I strongly disagree that Trump isn’t personally responsible for bad US response to Covid. No “normal” president, no normal human – would have encouraged the Crazies the way this bozo has.
The up-side of Trump’s presidency is that he has hastened the end of the American Empire. If I had more – any? – confidence that what follows would be better for the world, I might applaud that. As it is, I’m not bloody-minded enough to cheer for that.
As an American, a Human, a live being, I fear for the near future. I fear Biden/Harris will fall prey to the NeoCon/NeoLiberal FP “consensus” that we should kill more people to “free” them, and that their “middle way” tendencies will postpone reckoning for the evil Corps that paid the bills for their campaign. But don’t pretend that those NeoCons and the same evil Corps won’t do even better under another Trump regime.
Bonus gripe: If you’re gonna recommend 3rd party votes, at least name Howie Hawkins, the socialist Green Party nominee.

Posted by: elkern | Oct 20 2020 5:26 utc | 143

Interesting analysis all round.

Posted by: bob sykes | Oct 20 2020 5:40 utc | 144

Antonym
It may be the case. But if you are wedded to the pseudo democracy that is only open to election if the super rich and their lackeys and that censors through more subtle means and market forces and parasitises and terrorises the whole then , yes of course western style democracy is perfect. But the CCP May be autocratic and secretive but as far as I know the do not terrorise nor steal and rob. They plough a fair amount of money back to the welfare of their 99% and hit a bit into the 0.1%. And by the way Biden’s interst in China is similar to his interest in Ukraine, not really because he is a crypto communist.

Posted by: Orage | Oct 20 2020 5:55 utc | 145

Debisdead,
I see what you’re saying in the case of a couple of regulars. William Gruff included – that crowd tends to pretend they’re super anti-war but they gloss over Trump’s own atrocities just because the Western MSM is now fully behind any such actions (Syria and Ukraine for examples) so we don’t really hear about the wars we’re currently engaged in very much anymore and nobody is going in front of the UN to display a fake tube of anthrax (LOL). Obama/Biden/Hillary learned from Bush and Cheney’s PR mistakes and Trump’s people have subsequently learned from Obama’s. It’s hardly even debatable. And what of Julian Assange? Absolute silence from the allegedly anti-imperialists/no-new-war types like Gruff and NemesisCalling. That’s fucking Trump and Trump only carrying out the stuff that not even Obomber and Killary would do. Lock Her Up became let’s prosecute the fuck out of the one guy that exposed her crimes. Only a moron thinks there’s some kind of 6-D chess at play.
A vote for EITHER of the pre-selected, pre-vetted, pre-approved candidates is a vote for more war. That’s just a fact. Pointing it out draws silly and pathetic “TDS” accusations from Trump supporters and calls of false equivalence from center-right Biden supporters or idiots who still think that Bernie Sanders was legitimately running to be President in 2020 (I can’t say for sure when he adopted the sheepdog role in 2016, so I won’t go there – might be that the man was never a sociopath and/or didn’t want to get assassinated thereby losing his right-wing hated three houses or whatever for a “socialist” and therefore was never serious about becoming President).
Regardless, there is a lot of bullshit being thrown around and I appreciate the grounded, consistent commentary that you, Richard Steven Hack provide from the reasonable left (barring Richard’s admitted past) part of the spectrum, the jaded and red-pilled jackrabbit (who I think happens to be right about 98% of what he says), c1ue as a reasonable right leaning regular and even Nemesis Calling, despite his sometimes delusional Trump love. But lately there have been a LOT of totally unrealistic crazy claims and lies coming into the bar. Maybe things will get better after the election in America. Maybe they will get worse. What I’d like to propose is that here in this space those of us that put forth credulous and compassionate claims and opinions remain civil and take each other at our words that we’re aware that the empire is crumbling from without and within, but that a lot of us all have relatives and friends in the USA.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 5:58 utc | 146

norwegian – re: many posts.
Do you sincerely think that COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, is a complete hoax as your comments (without delving back farther than a few months) would indicate?
I’m genuinely curious. Other than the Great Barrington Declaration and a few YouTubers and Swiss scientists, do you have any hard-core proof that it’s just a fraud? Or am I mis-reading you and you do in fact believe certain parts of it are accurate, including possibly the notion that masks of the right type (or even just face coverings) could help to prevent its transmission – especially since it’s now becoming more accepted that it’s aerosols and fomids (in addition to sloppy picking of the nose after touching a dirty surface or three) by which it’s being spread?
Can you direct me to a believable counter-source? One that throws real water on the whole thing? If so – OR – if not, how do you characterize the situation starting in China back in November to now? Again, I’m genuinely curious to let people with conflicting OPINIONS expound on their viewpoints.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 6:05 utc | 147

insane number of trump trolls suddenly appeared here to comment , and old trolls resurfaces like donkeytale and his sockpuppet account agreeing on donkey’s post
i do not agree with B , the insane number of people who voted early is sign that people do not want to be cheated by trump’s antics and his crazy supporters and the data showed it is blue / democrat who wont the early voting.
as for william gruff , sad to see him exposed as ordinary trump troll who tried hard peddling ‘trump’s better because he didnt start wars’ propaganda nonsense.. people like this exactly blind to the fact that trump is israel’s mule and he will start war with iran and venezuela after he got 2nd term andd have nothing to lose.
it just sad so many supposedly rational poster turned out to be just another trump covidiot

Posted by: milomilo | Oct 20 2020 6:09 utc | 148

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 5:58 utc | 148 I appreciate the grounded, consistent commentary that you, Richard Steven Hack provide from the reasonable left (barring Richard’s admitted past) part of the spectrum
Wow, I’m getting too many compliments in the last 24 hours. I need to go on a rant that everyone will hate. LOL
One quibble, _K_C_… I wouldn’t consider myself a “leftist”. I started out as an Objectivist Big-L Libertarian in the Sixties, shifted to a small-l libertarian later, then shifted to anarchism – but still “right-wing”, i.e., what is called a “free-market anarchist” a la Benjamin Tucker or Lysander Spooner or Murray Rothbard. Later I got acquainted with the “weird anarchist” wing of Robert Anton Wilson et al, and then moved into Transhumanism and in the last twenty or thirty years into individualist anarchism a la Max Stirner and Nietzsche. So I’m a “mix”, as they say.
The rest of your post I pretty much agree with. You call it like it is.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 6:16 utc | 149

Richard, did you happen to click on the crimethinc post that I linked in I think my 2nd comment on this thread? It’s well written and reasoned. As an anarchist I would think you’d appreciate it or at least have something educated to say about it. Please read it (it’s long) and let me know. I’m not an anarchist, so I don’t have the requisite background.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 6:20 utc | 150

Lesser Evilism is dead. It died with Obomber II.
Voting third party signals opposition to the duopoly which encourages others to vote for the third party and encourages third party members to contonue their efforts, thus moving towards the tipping point over decades. There is no other way out.

Posted by: Johny Conspiranoid | Oct 20 2020 6:42 utc | 151

I see a registered Democrat Partisan activist hack is scheduled to moderate the next debate.
Plus there are some rule changes
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-adviser-says-debate-commission-may-shut-mic-foreign-policy-suddenly-dropped-topics

Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2020 7:03 utc | 152

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 6:20 utc | 150 Richard, did you happen to click on the crimethinc post
Nope, missed it. I’ll go look. I’ve seen stuff by them in the past. however. I have their book “Recipes For Disaster – Ana Anarchist Cookbook” (which I haven’t read yet), plus I’ve read another book by them which I can’t seem to find now.
Anyhoo, I just downloaded that article and will read it overnight and report back. Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 7:08 utc | 153

@84 “Accepting the electoral college is a sure sign of reactionary politics”
I disagree. Accepting the electoral college is the politics of a federation.
What is, in a federation, a sure sign of reactionary politics, is the federal government wielding disproportionately huge power over state and local governments.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Oct 20 2020 7:17 utc | 154

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 20 2020 5:03 utc | 137 — “…. CCP China is a totally closed society … How much money do we take with us at time of death?”
Exactly zero.
At that point in time, you, Antonym, and me too, will hardly be able to grasp a copper coin, although in your case, you just might be still holding onto your prejudice against China.
But there is hope. There is always hope.
It will help you gain a more balanced, nuanced view of China, the Chinese people, the CCP if you will only read a little bit of Jeff Brown and Godfrey Roberts, two Westerners who have spent decades living in China.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 20 2020 7:24 utc | 155

@ kiwiklown
To be honest, the vision of China future society is total dystopia, urbanized, controlled, always connected.
It’s kinda terrifying, I hope that China only keeps that future to themselves.
It’s good to liberate the world from the USA, but it’s bad to enslave it afterwards.

Posted by: Smith | Oct 20 2020 7:42 utc | 156

@b
A little suggestion: Please keep the important topics separate from US politics which, IMHO, should remain in their own containment threads to keep the team-cheering hooligans from running roughshod over the comments section.

Posted by: Anonymouse | Oct 20 2020 7:48 utc | 157

@68 “You’ve been duped. It’s kayfabe. Mock combat.”
Yeah, right. They, the whole establishment, including the FBI, the CIA, the media, the “social” media, the political system, the courts, the academia, the whole shebang — they have worked awfully hard, in the last 4 years, to demonstrate their hatred. Can you blame me for being fooled?
It seems hard to understand, though, why they would need to perform this elaborate farce, if it’s all the same.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Oct 20 2020 7:57 utc | 158

@_K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 6:05 utc | 147

Do you sincerely think that COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, is a complete hoax as your comments (without delving back farther than a few months) would indicate?

What I think or what you believe is not the question. The burden of proof is on the people who come with fantastic claims (such as the state controlled TV in Norway claim that 150 000 Norwegians would die) that have been shown to be just that: complete fantasies. A relevant question to such people is why their projections never materialised and how do they they think it affects their credibility and the credibility of their narrative, but of course we never hear anything. In fact such questions are totally not allowed, you get censored if you try. Anyone with a basic understanding of the scientific method will understand that this is not science, this is radical political agendas cowardly disguised as supposed science.
The whole thing boils down to whether there are verifiable excess deaths, and there is no significant statistical difference between today and previous years that would justify demolishing the whole world economy and destroy cultures and personal relations. There are multiple reports of largely empty hospitals, I have first hand experience of this locally from a family member suffering cancer right now.
I live in Norway and can mainly comment on what I see around me. At my government controlled workplace there is a completely Orwellian situation with arbitrary restrictions (“police” bands preventing access to cofee machines, brand new impositions of new “2 meter rules” measured “nose to nose” and other craziness that I will not go into, it is just too embarrassing to sane people. And the craziness is only increasing, in total defiance of any actual facts). This appears to be increased fear marketing to compensate for non-existent facts.
Claims of “infections” in our office are nothing but claimed positive PCR tests (the tests are heavily promoted), with ~50% false positives for a test to a condition that has 99.99% survivability if in fact there is any infection at all. This is the basis for destroying the workplace for thousands of people. This is serious stuff. The proof of the craziness is there, but the proof of its justification is totally missing.
Then when we step outside the office, our society is completely different, people act normally and there is virtually no sign of the fear that is spread through media and corporate structures, where employees cannot protest in fear of losing their jobs. People outside do not accept these media claims that are not reflected in real life.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Such evidence has not been provided.
Please understand that english is not my first language.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 9:05 utc | 159

From B’s article: “Biden has collected more donations than Trump.”

True.
However, a look at the specifics tells us that Trump leads with regard to “Small Individual Contributions (< $200)"! This category of campaign funding represents support among ordinary individual people with a basic income, more than any other category. From the data compiled by opensecrets.org: Of the 530 million the Biden Campaign Committee raised, 38% come from small individual contributions.
By comparison, Trump’s Campaign Committee got 53% of their 476 million through small sums from individual donors.
Speaking of campaign finances, what I find alarming is the insane amount of 75 million that Trump got from Adelson. The Dem’s Soros family seems much more tightfisted compared to that. Or they’re just not as much in love with Biden than they were with Clinton and Obama.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Oct 20 2020 9:07 utc | 160

No, no, no, alas I think that Bolivia didn’t win.
It will likely the same thing than in Ecuador. The so called Morales friend have likely made a deal with the coup runners. I’m sure that he will keep on the same policies of kindness for US bizness and we can even wait that the new president, as in Ecuador, will sue Morales for corruption or any other usual bullshits
We’ll sée….

Posted by: Darras | Oct 20 2020 9:28 utc | 161

@160 “Speaking of campaign finances, what I find alarming is the insane amount of 75 million that Trump got from Adelson. The Dem’s Soros family seems much more tightfisted compared to that.”
I don’t like Adelson either, but as far as Soros is concerned, he finances OSF to the tune of tens of billions of dollars (according to wikipedia: “In 2017, Soros transferred $18 billion to the Foundation”). So, he doesn’t have to finance Ds directly.
That’s $18 billion, in one year. Talk about insane amounts.

Posted by: Mao Cheng Ji | Oct 20 2020 9:36 utc | 162

Posted by: _K_C_ | Oct 20 2020 6:20 utc | 150
OK, I just read this analysis of the likely situation around the election, repeating the link here:
Preparing for Electoral Unrest and a Right-Wing Power Grab – An Analysis
In my view, this is the best analysis of the situation and the possible and probable actions of the various conflicting parties that I’ve seen so far. This is the document that should be thoroughly discussed here by anyone interested in considering what the outcomes of this election might be and how they might be obtained. The author, by the way, is Peter Gelderloos, who has a short Wikipedia entry here. I’m not familiar with any of his previous work. He was arrested in Spain during a protest with which he had little to do, according to this Washington Times article. Regardless, I find his analysis in this article compelling.
Some points the author makes:
1) He assesses that a military coup is not likely and that the military are likely to stand down:

They will prefer to view any unrest arising in the sensitive period of an election as a civic demand for a properly functioning democracy that obeys its own rules. An uprising, in their eyes, will be when the crowds decide to kick out their current rulers by any means necessary.

However, he does assess a military intervention against civic unrest as a possibility:

In the most violent scenario, the military take action in the streets to squelch an incipient civil war and restore the constitutional order, which in effect would mean defending the prerogative of the courts and legislatures to decide a contested election (a legal contest Trump has an advantage in). This action would set a dangerous precedent and most of the casualties would be radicals and people on the far left. However, it is unlikely that this would change the military and political culture enough for Trump to stay in power beyond the legally limited eight years. We might recall that the military has been used against the US population multiple times over the last half century without changing the constitutional order.

2) He assesses fascist movements, militias and “lone wolves” are a bigger threat, which can escalate the civil unrest without necessarily being confronted by the military as compared to the anti-racist movement because, frankly, blacks and minorities have less legitimacy in the eyes of the government system.
3) The police will be a problem (duh):

Results will vary from city to city. In some places, police brutality will pacify the movement, but elsewhere it will provoke more people to come out into the streets, or to move from protest to revolt. In general, police will help create an impasse that cannot be resolved by police action alone.

4) Trump will likely use the Customs and Border Patrol and the DHS as his weapons on the street, as he has already:

Going beyond his authoritarian personality to questions of strategy, Trump is most intelligent—and this is one of the few regards in which that word can be applied to him—at working the media spectacle. His recipe for victory has always relied on having an extremely motivated base, even though that base has always been a minority. Unleashing extreme police violence against the anti-racist movement is guaranteed crowd pleaser for his voters, especially the millions of cops who will see the repressive campaigns as an inspiring call of duty, a nod to the paramilitary mobilizations that resolve the crisis of whiteness, as I describe in Diagnostic of the Future.

5) The capitalists in charge don’t like Trump, but the situation may cause them to swing either way:

The capitalists who support the right-wing populism that has taken hold in several of the world’s most powerful countries are a small minority. Most capitalists, especially those who are significantly higher up the ladder than mid-grade investors and real estate developers, are strongly opposed to a second Trump term.
However, they know they can profit under either president, and the global capitalist economy is currently in a situation that favors short-term strategies, due to the grave uncertainties around long-term growth. Far from being a president who has increased government interventionism, Trump has represented a politics of extreme deregulation that has provided a windfall to capitalists in extractive and financial industries.

6)

The Republican Party is attempting to win the election through legal, semi-legal, and extralegal means. Donald Trump is not preparing a coup attempt in any traditional understanding of the term. This needs to be emphasized so we can prepare effective strategies for November and beyond. In the previous section, we have seen the fruits of an effectively deployed anti-fascist strategy. Every strategy has its advantages and disadvantages, and one of the risks of focusing chiefly on fighting fascism is that it can reinforce democracy—and with it, capitalism and the state.
Stealing elections is how democracy works. It’s how it has always worked. If you legitimize a monopoly on coercive force and authority by claiming to represent the will of the people, then obviously subsequent power struggles will focus on defining which people constitute “the People,” giving a bullhorn to the ones in your camp and silencing the others. When we discuss the specific ways the Republicans are planning to steal this election, let’s not encourage the ahistorical naïveté that this is somehow shocking or unprecedented.

7) I find this view of Trump compelling:

As a real estate magnate, Trump prefers and understands the battlefield of lawsuits and legal loopholes. It is also abundantly clear that Trump is a cowardly person, and though flirting with a fascist fan base stokes his authoritarian ego, in questions of policy he avoids open conflict and militaristic disputes.

And this:

Trump is probably too much of an amoral opportunist to be understood as an ideologue, but he is undoubtedly an enthusiastic white supremacist—and as such, he has been instrumental to an ideological shift in the Republican Party from genteel good ol’ boys to avowed white nationalists like Stephen Miller. These are both modes of reactionary white supremacists (as opposed to the progressive white supremacists of the Democratic Party), but Trump’s violating of taboos has enabled white nationalists to gain ground and move in the open. One of the ways they are doing this is to encourage white militias and spread the conspiracy theory that the left wants to start a civil war, so that when the right carries out paramilitary actions, they can pretend to be victims acting in self-defense.

As to the above, I can testify that a lot of the gun and prepper Youtubers I follow are definitely in the camp of “the left is going to start a civil war, we need to be prepared. Get your armor plate carrier and AR-15 ready!”
8) He assesses that this is not uncommon in US history:

An article in the Intercept argues that Trump is enacting a fascistic pattern, starting out by calling attention to an external danger—immigrants—and then turning on an internal enemy, antifascists and anarchists. While this is certainly true, what his team is aiming for is a common occurrence in US history, contrary to the progressives who see Trump as an aberration. We can call it patrician democracy: the longstanding, classical idea that only the “right sort” of people ought to vote, including their loyal dependents if necessary.

9) The Democrats push for mail-in voting will be a God-send to the Republican Party vote-disenfranchise efforts. I hadn’t bother thinking about that, except for Trump’s tweets about “vote fraud”, but he’s probably right. Due to the numbers of votes thrown out, he assesses that “The Democrats have voluntarily created a situation in which they have to win battleground states by margins of 2-5%.”
10) It’s the Democrats who are the biggest threat because of their historic duplicity with regards to “progressive” movements:

Democrats will do everything they can to foreclose all these possible connections. By calling for a peaceful protest movement, they will attempt to leave people exposed to far-right attacks and police violence, and they will blame anarchists for the disturbances, leaving us exposed to repression and vigilante attacks. If things go poorly for them, they may try to blame anarchists for giving Trump another four years, and they will spend those years trying to discipline social movements and impose authoritarian control over the ideas and practices of anti-racism, climate activism, housing struggle, and other points of mobilization…The significant growth of authoritarian left groups under the umbrella of anti-fascism only facilitates this trend, as authoritarian leftists, in such moments, tend to attack anarchists and the anti-authoritarian left, lining up in a facile popular front with the forces of moderation.
Remember, it was not the far right that finally tamped down the George Floyd rebellion or the Ferguson uprising in 2014. It was the left, working in an unbroken chain from the center to the activist margin.
To pull a victory out of this election, the Democrats probably have to win back the Senate—which will give them a decisive advantage in the final stage for resolving electoral disputes—but this only matters so much. They have already made abundantly clear their support for the police and antagonism to social movements. Whatever happens, democracy will not resolve its crisis of legitimacy. Society will remain polarized.

11) He expects the Democrats to win the popular vote, and if the unrest is bad enough, the Supreme Court might back them in order to restore stability.
Bottom line: I’d like everyone to read the whole thing and tell us your take here. Hopefully it will be a more fruitful discussion than “Trump bad” vs “Trump good.”

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 9:50 utc | 163

norwegian where is your evidence that the climate has always been changing? you do realize it’s not weather, right? fact is it changes when something causes it to, not before, and humans are causing it to do that right now with fossil fuels and overconsumption. i realize that may not be a popular tack in norway, which has gotten rich off fossil fuels and so may want to avoid upsetting the apple cart.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 20 2020 9:54 utc | 164

3d party, greens or libertarians, till something viable is created. neither one of these corrupt warmongers belongs in office. biden is more rational on the virus, but all in on russiagate and moving toward an eventual war with russia, not to mention being a big supporter of fossil fuels, the police state, etc. trump hasn’t started any wars yet, but he keeps trying to provoke iran into starting one, and pushing that coup in bolivia and for one to happen in venezuela, and he is even more of a jackbooted government thug supporter than crime bill joe and copmala. both screw everybody below the upper middle class with socialism for the rich and dog eat dog capitalism for everybody else.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 20 2020 9:58 utc | 165

@ Rob | Oct 19 2020 16:33 utc | 4
You might consider this: To be a national political party, it must have a presence in between 75 to 80% of all U.S. counties. To be an effective national political party, a presence must be had in 66 to 75% of all U.S. precincts. That presence would consist of at least one prominent local resident as a party member. The sheer size of the U.S. makes the numbers needed massive, check wikipedia for U.S. counties and precinct numbers and take the percentage range from them. The constitution and electoral collage system have nothing to do with restricting the numbers of political parties, shear size of the U.S. federated empire of states does.
You are correct about voting for minor third party candidates. A simple graph of 100,000,000 votes cast, percentage of alternative votes cast and the resultant number of votes needed for winning would look like:
100 million 0% alternate 50,000,001
100 million 5% alternate 47,500,001
100 million 10% alternate 45,000,001
You can see the greater the alternative vote becomes out of an election turnout, the easier it becomes for one (or the other) party to win. One should decide their own best interests based on numbers rather than moral rectitude for best desired result. Make the major parties work the most for their win, they have spent enough between them to finely divide the electorate to a point where beneath statistical notice manipulation is enough to carry the results. All this is compounded by the original negotiated compromise of the state’s interest enshrined in the constitution, tattered as it is.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Oct 20 2020 10:09 utc | 166

Debsisdead @132: “If you believe he will not start a war if he wins a second term, tell us. My view is that orangeutan wasn’t interested in war early on because he was set on copping earners from other industries…”
I am not arguing in support of Trump, but rather against Biden. I don’t know if Trump will start a new war. Nobody does at this point. On the other hand we do know that the gang Biden hails from has a “kill list” of countries that they were actively working their way through. That isn’t hypothetical. Trump’s upset victory in 2016 interrupted lots of world domination plans. Whether that was due to the Deep State/CIA panicking because Trump was an unknown/unexpected newcomer to their operations (the guy they brought in to just be a bit player turns into the main character in their show? Shock!), or because Trump wanted to end the wars to secure better profit opportunities , or because (more likely) Trump’s win was a clear and surprising anti-war mandate from the American population is not as important as the fact that PNAC plans are still in severe disarray.
“There is one powerful reason for not supporting either scumbag, i.e. for voting 3rd party or not voting at all, and that is I for one have always believed if you give someone your vote and he or she wins, you the person who voted for the winner is just as responsible for what they do once in office as the candidate her/his self.” This! Or at least people believe this to be so which makes them controllable when they commit. Old fashioned Catholic guilt control. Note how many `Crats jump to Obama’s defense when you remind people what a bloodthirsty monster that scumbag actually was; they are basically defending themselves and their bogus self-image as lovers of peace. A vote for Obama was a big ol` virtue signal, and to maintain that virtue the delusion that Obama was virtuous must be maintained.
There are other implications that might not be so obvious to denizens of your lovely little paradise islands. For many in America, and doubtless this disease has spread elsewhere as well, politics evokes the same emotional responses as competitive sports. When an American goes to a sporting match (which sport is irrelevant) they will choose a team to cheer for. If they don’t know either team involved in the competition they will choose based upon something arbitrary like jersey or hat color, or who the people sitting next to them in the bleachers are cheering for. They will then become intensely emotionally invested in that team’s successes and failures, even though there was no real reason for them to choose that team over the other, and even though victory by either team has no real meaning to them anyway.
This particular sports competition dynamic fuels partisan politics in America more than any other feature of the process, with political “issues” subordinate to team loyalty and only another aspect of the game play. This is important since the act of voting is identical to registering your affiliation with and support for one of the two political “teams” permitted in the political arena. Once this affiliation is officially declared with a vote, the typical American then becomes extremely deeply emotionally invested in that particular “team” and dragging them away from that “team” becomes nearly impossible. Team affiliation becomes part of their “identity”, and in anti-collectivist, narcissistic America “identity” is everything. This “identity” and team affiliation is the closest thing to community that poor individualist Americans can have.
What this all amounts to is that if you are going to break people out of the psychological trap of American politics it must be done before they vote. Once they commit to one team or the other they are ruined and useless. It will take years until the next political sporting match in which the illusion of community that team affiliation offers fades before you can possibly rescue them from the dysfunctional relationship that they have committed to. Get them to vote third party and the cycle of control over their minds is greatly weakened.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 11:10 utc | 167

Mao Cheng Ji@154 wrote: “I disagree. Accepting the electoral college is the politics of a federation.
What is, in a federation, a sure sign of reactionary politics, is the federal government wielding disproportionately huge power over state and local governments.”
State and local governments put more people into jails and prisons and mulct more money in fines than the federal government does. State and local police are incredibly corrupt, viciously reactionary and amazingly incompetent. Indignation over the imaginary offense of federal taxes going to welfare for bad people and foreign aid to bad countries does not make the federal government a “huge power.” Big government that brutalizes people in the courtrooms and invades bedrooms but never boardrooms, “fights” crime in the streets but never in the suites, big government that violates the rights of the people and ignores their needs to serve a few? That big government is exactly what this kind of person stands for. The nonsense about federal government is at best ignorant servility, a mindless recitation of talking points from the masters. It is the equivalent of a forelock tugging peasant in the Middle Ages shocked, shocked that people would dare to disrespect the king, God’s annointed ruler.
To put it another way, state and local governments are not the people. Federalism is about the rights of states, not the rights of the people. The assumption that states’ rights are the people’s right is merely cheap rhetoric, deliberate deceit. The right of the majority to have its will carried out is democracy. Federalism of this kind is against democracy. Period. Lurking in the background is the notion that the evil masses have a vested interest in violating the property of the good people, who are known by the fact they have property. The truth of course is that it is generally the kings and dictators who have threatened property far more than the supposedly evil people. Historically, the people have only fought against property after the supposedly good people, the propertied minority of owners who have devised a corrupt system of representative democracy dedicated to thwarting the will of the majority, only after these alleged moral paragons have wrecked the world! The revolution in Russia came after the good people gave us the Great War. The revolution in China came after the good people inflicted untold agonies on a vast nation.
Property rights are not the essence of freedom. Freedom was born in revolutions.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 20 2020 11:18 utc | 168

Richard Steven Hack @141: ‘We anarchists like to respond to the claim that since we don’t vote we can’t complain about the outcome with: “Au contraire, mon frere. We’re the only ones who can complain.”‘
Precisely.
Voted for the winner: “Hey, you can’t complain! You voted for that asshole!”
Voted for the loser: “Hey, you can’t complain! You voted for a loser!”
Voting for a third party with no expectation that they will win also avoids this trap, though.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 11:50 utc | 169

@pretzelattack | Oct 20 2020 9:54 utc | 165

norwegian where is your evidence that the climate has always been changing?

This is like asking for evidence that water is wet. Look up whatever source you prefer, here is one.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 12:07 utc | 170

@126 james
I clearly meant Trump will lose badly and the Dems might take control of the Senate.
*********
To those of you who think that you’re somehow better and smarter than us simpletons who want Biden to win only to get rid of Trump, and if we were only smart and brave like you and have your pure integrity, we’d be for the third party… Spare me your fake integrity! I have no illusions where Biden is concerned; I base everything on REALITY, unlike you, cause you geniuses know better than anyone that the third party will get nowhere and Trump might squeak by because you’re shaming people on the Left with your fake purity and integrity.
Even Trump bootlickers are more honest and less hypocritical than your type, and I had to drag my finger to type those words! At least they don’t pretend a different outcome than Trump with their choice!
You’re no better than Trump bootlickers; you’re worse, and maybe some of you may in fact be for Trump which is the type of connivance Zionist hasbara would use.
Actually Trump has 70% approval from Israel like in Russia. Funny how Russians are always aligned with that Israeli scum…
So there could be hasbara in our midst peddling the same 3rd party crap you’re pushing.
And this is for b: Yeah Trump is filling convention centers and hangars with stupid, maskless cattle and Biden only parking lots and drive-in movie theaters.
But before Covid in the primaries, Bernie was bringing in 10,000 to 17,000 people to his rallies while Joe had at most 5,000 and Joe swept the primaries anyway.
So your theory doesn’t cut it. Trump will be shellacked by Tortoise Joe.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 12:13 utc | 171

@William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 11:10 utc | 168
Very well put, this describes both political and other affiliations convincingly. The use of symbolism is very important in such psychological games.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 12:14 utc | 172

@Circe | Oct 20 2020 12:13 utc | 172

But before Covid in the primaries, Bernie was bringing in 10,000 to 17,000 people to his rallies while Joe had at most 5,000 and Joe swept the primaries anyway.

Bernie was a limited hangout in 2016 just like in 2020, a sheepdog herding the sheep.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 12:26 utc | 173

Voters have cast a total of 31,677,305 ballots in the reporting states, so far.
That’s 3,559,613 more votes than were cast by this time yesterday morning. If we average that many every 24 hours for the next 14 days, the total number of early votes will exceed 80 million. That’s not even including the eight or more states that aren’t reporting early vote totals.

Posted by: wobblie | Oct 20 2020 12:28 utc | 174

Boy,Circe is just asking to be banned with that blistering attack on b.

Posted by: morongobill | Oct 20 2020 13:14 utc | 175

Joe Harris would be a disaster for Americans. As for Washington and Wall Street Imperialism? I see little difference. Perhaps more brazen under Joe Harris but what could be more brazen than the bloated rat Pompeo and his insane bullying? What about write in voting? But I looked it up and most states just trash write ins unless the candidate has jumped through some hoops. The system is deliberately rigged. Rigged against Americans.

Posted by: SoTexGuy | Oct 20 2020 13:19 utc | 176

@174 Norwegian
I’m not arguing Bernie’s intent for running. I’m arguing b’s theory of crowd size = victory, especially skewed by a pandemic in this race.
Besides, you’re a Covid conspiracy peddler. Who can give anything you write the time of day? You have zero credibility.
*****
Speaking of peddling stupid:
To all good-intentioned traffickers of the 3rd party option in this race: If you can figure out and prove who the majority of front-line healthcare workers, doctors and nurses are voting for, I’ll consider that a serious option.
😉

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 13:24 utc | 177

“Bernie was bringing in 10,000 to 17,000 people to his rallies while Joe had at most 5,000 and Joe swept the primaries anyway.”
Yeah, that’s what rigged elections look like.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 13:27 utc | 178

@morongobill | Oct 20 2020 13:14 utc | 176

Boy,Circe is just asking to be banned with that blistering attack on b.

What is it with this censorship-culture? Circe did not attack b, she just presented some facts as she saw them. I mostly disagree with her, but I find your call for censorship much worse.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 13:29 utc | 179

@Circe | Oct 20 2020 13:24 utc | 178

Besides, you’re a Covid conspiracy peddler.

Labelling people “Covid conspiracy peddler” is a bullying technique. Why do you have to use bullying techniques if you think you have all the facts on your side?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 13:32 utc | 180

Gruff
Trump’s win was a clear and surprising anti-war mandate from the American population
______________________________
Unfortunately No.
That is a statement born from ignorance.
The part of the American population that elected trump is not particularly anti-war. If you would tune in to the news media that supports Trump (Gruff has no clue that a vast Trump supporting corporate news media even exists) you would find very little anti-war sentiment from the part of the population that elected Trump. If Trump decides to go to war his followers and the news media that supports him will be behind him close to 100%. Biden doesn’t have that kind of support for war from any part of the American population. Both Biden’s own voters and his opposition are going to be skeptical of Biden wars. The right wing of the corporate news media simply cannot support another Democrat’s war. They will lose credibility with their viewers if they do. The left wing of the corporate news media can get most of their viewers to go along with war, even if its Trump’s war (or Bush’s wars).
Trump is far more dangerous as a warmonger than Biden would be because Biden would have real problems getting much support for war, while Trump can get both the right and left to back him when he becomes bellicose.
A vote for Trump is a likely vote for war, but a vote for Biden is a vote for a warmonger that will have real trouble getting the support of the population for his wars. To get support for Biden’s wars will require a pretty extravagant and costly false flag event while Trump can easily get support for as little as a few fake gas canisters or some rebels lobbing a few rockets.

Posted by: jinn | Oct 20 2020 13:32 utc | 181

@176 moron gobill
Which part: arguing b’s crowd-size theory or…that Russia, Israel and 3rd Party traffickers are all on the same page and hasbara use the same brain fogging technique?
I must be doing something right, if wishful thinking is your best defense.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 13:37 utc | 182

morongobill @176
Our host doesn’t usually ban posters for their efforts to assault him with their own imaginary demons. He bans posters for their endlessly repeating debunked nonsense. If he or other posters have already pointed out and documented factual errors in someone’s posts, yet that person continues to post the erroneous garbage, then they are asking for a ban.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 13:37 utc | 183

>Trump has botched the response to the pandemic. < In the early stages of the Covid-19 pandemic, you said on the MOA blog that it was a phony scare - so you wouldn't have advised extreme early measures either. You should also know, that in the US the President has limited authority in situations like Covid-19, and that Democrat "resistance" controlled NY state and New York City, had extremely disproportionate excess deaths raising the US total (see the CDC excess deaths data). The CIA should have been an early source on Covid-19, but it's a corrupt organization that has a long record of being dangerous to Presidents, so what was Trump supposed to go on?

Posted by: xeno | Oct 20 2020 13:38 utc | 184

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 11:50 utc | 170 Voting for a third party with no expectation that they will win also avoids this trap, though.
There are no functional third parties and it’s unlikely there will ever be one. There may be spoiler parties but that’s about it – and all that does is enable one of the two main parties to get an edge over the other. But you say, “voting with no expectation that they will win”. And exactly what does that accomplish, aside from bleeding votes from one of the two parties, with zero guarantee that it will be the “most evil” of the two.
Not to mention that if you vote for someone who can’t win, you actually *are* exactly in that same trap. You can’t complain because you voted for someone who couldn’t win! So what do you have to complain about – it was *your* choice to throw away your vote! Indeed, it was even dumber than voting for someone who could win. So you still have no logical reason to complain about the outcome.
Read my lips. Voting is stupid. It’s like buying a lottery ticket where the odds are 50 million to 1 that you win. It’s for morons, just like lottery tickets. It’s a fantasy that fools who believe in “democracy” are brainwashed into believing. It and “democracy” are on a par with the Tooth Fairy.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Oct 20 2020 13:38 utc | 185

jinn @Oct20 13:32 #182

A vote for Trump is a likely vote for war, but a vote for Biden is a vote for a warmonger that will have real trouble getting the support of the population for his wars.

Yup. A vote for a Duopoly candidate in this race is a vote for war.
The groundwork for wars with China, Iran, Venezuela have already been laid.
<> <> <> <> <>
In general, a vote for a Duopoly candidate is a vote for the establishment. THAT’s the real choice you make: you have the “liberty” to vote FOR the establishment or AGAINST the establishment in our EMPIRE-FIRST, Deep State-managed plutocracy. How kind of them to allow that.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 13:46 utc | 186

@180 Norwegian
Finally, you make sense.
Thank you.
@181
Because it’s easy?
Besides, it’s not bullying to call out trafficking in Covid conspiracies. I’m compelled to resort to tough love.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20 2020 13:48 utc | 187

Richard Steven Hack @186
Unfortunately it is you yourself who is making the logical error here. There is no official suppression of complaints. You can stand on a street corner and complain all day long if you want, regardless of your participation or otherwise in the electoral process, at least so long as local shopkeepers don’t get tired of you harassing their customers. Nobody will stop you. The suppression of dissent comes in the form of self-censorship, which cannot take root unless you are personally emotionally invested in the outcome of the election. The key here then is not to avoid the act of voting, which of course is just symbolic, but to avoid the emotive load that the symbolism carries with it.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 20 2020 13:58 utc | 188

xeno @Oct20 13:38 #185

In the early stages of the Covid-19 pandemic, you said on the MOA blog that it was a phony scare – so you wouldn’t have advised extreme early measures either.

WRONG. b didn’t say it was phony he said it that China would fight it effectively.
The propaganda at the time was that China was failing to fight the virus.
At that time b could not have foreseen Trump’s criminally inept response. And b has actually written about how USA was viewed as the most prepared before the pandemic and yet had the worst (or one of the worst) responses to the pandemic.
<> <> <> <> <>
b’s excusing of Trump wrt the pandemic is the real problem.
Trump lied to the American people about the pandemic and took no effective action to prevent the virus spread in USA. Shutting down direct air travel was a band-aid for PR purposes- people could easily re-route AND there was no testing of passengers as they arrived and no quarantine of anyone that arrived sick.
b has followed the pandemic closely and was critical of the Trump Administration response yet in August b excused Trump by saying that Trump thought the pandemic wouldn’t be a problem for him and now (in this post) b says that the Democrats wouldn’t have done any better.
We can speculate about what the Democrats might’ve done but it’s clear that Trump lied and failed to protect the American people. It’s also clear why he did so: to blame China, to bailout Wall Street and Boeing, and to save money by killing mostly older people (the last years of life have the most costly healthcare and the federal government – via Medicare and Medicaid – pay for most of that).
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 14:06 utc | 189

_K_C_ @146 wrote:
And what of Julian Assange? … That’s fucking Trump and Trump only carrying out the stuff that not even Obomber and Killary would do. Lock Her Up became let’s prosecute the fuck out of the one guy that exposed her crimes. Only a moron thinks there’s some kind of 6-D chess at play.
___________________________________
Amen to that

Posted by: jinn | Oct 20 2020 14:29 utc | 190

@Circe | Oct 20 2020 13:48 utc | 187

Because it’s easy?
Besides, it’s not bullying

You are contradicting yourself. First you admit to “easy” bullying and in the next breath you run away from it. Your arguments would carry more weight if you add some honesty.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 20 2020 14:32 utc | 191

KC @
” this time because if you think that the Soleimani assassination was anything other than an attempt to force Iran to retaliate in kind, thus providing the excuse that it’s obvious to anyone who’s looking which Trump and his neocon cabinet are eagerly awaiting to “justify” a shooting war with Iran. ”
Iran did retaliate and with that red flag still flying has not yet finished.
Since when did the US need an excuse to attack a country that it couldn’t just fabricate?

Posted by: arby | Oct 20 2020 14:33 utc | 192

Darras @ 161
Yes that is my concern on the Bolivia election as well.
These coup mongers seem to have a lot of snakes in the grass.

Posted by: arby | Oct 20 2020 14:35 utc | 193

This election reminds me of the fall of the Berlin Wall,
The whole thing jus went pop ! and gone !
I seem to remember the US gloating.
Right now US citizens have no insight as to how ridiculous their making them selves appear to the rest of the world.
Look guys it’s just Hollywood! It’s not real life.
Like that long long film ‘Titanic ‘
Hurry up and sink then we can all go home.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20 2020 14:45 utc | 194

Well, b is certainly entitled to his opinion, and he has the soapbox to broadcast it. As b himself pointed out (US elections don’t change US foreign policy) the US electorate is not voting on foreign policy and all those areas of interest/reporting that b is much better at. I’ve noticed in b’s comments concerning US domestic happenings that many of his conclusions just don’t fit the temperament and the mood here.
I am not going to predict the outcome, except that I believe the popular vote will be won by Biden, but then there is that Constitutional shenanigan of the Electoral College. Biden himself may be only slightly to the left of Trump on domestic issues but the D party is going through a fight within itself that was most prominently begun by Sanders, and the party faithful are much further to the left than Biden and the aging leadership. If I were to settle on one aspect most on many people’s minds, that would be it, and the GOP as well as Trump may be shown the door. But, I expect many dirty deeds to transpire in the next 4 weeks: fasten your seat belt, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
I’m in Ohio. CBS this morning was making a big deal about B&T being in a dead heat here. That may be, I don’t really know. I will say that in ’16 the Trump yard signs here (upper Ohio valley) were as prolific as the fallen leaves. This time, much less so. Also, many younger citizens who sat out ’16 or couldn’t navigate the obstacles to voting the GOP had engineered seem determined to cast a vote this time.
I respect b, but when it comes to the US internally I think he projects through his geopolitical lens, and sees things as he would like them to be. We USAans are up to our necks in our own domestic shit, and that is what this election will be decided upon.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Oct 20 2020 15:01 utc | 195

If Bolivian govt newly elected people have a realistic stance they would keep the Morales line with wavings to the stupid middle classes, turn back to development path and negotiate something selectively new in the WTO recipes (selective tive tariff protectionism).
They had a sound growth thruout under Morales but LaPaz floor was previously so desolately poor it takes 20 years growth to get to an acceptable living standard. But that s precisely why they can do it. YOU can only go up when you realize that your weakness is your strenght.

Posted by: augusto | Oct 20 2020 15:02 utc | 196

I would not be so quick to say that Bolivia has one. Look what happened in Ecuador when Lenin Moreno took over from Rafael Correa.

Posted by: JasonT | Oct 20 2020 15:05 utc | 197

Jackrabbit-
Posted by: xeno | Oct 20 2020 13:38 utc
>In the early stages of the Covid-19 pandemic, you said on the MOA blog that it was a phony scare – so you wouldn’t have advised extreme early measures either.< Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 20 2020 14:06 utc >WRONG. b didn’t say it was phony he said it that China would fight it effectively.
The propaganda at the time was that China was failing to fight the virus.< No, "Jackrabbit", you are wrong, and so was MOA at the very beginning, he quickly corrected course. Here's what MOA blogged that I was refering to: February 01, 2020 Moon of alabama > Novel Coronavirus Defies Conspiracy Theories As Data Shows Its Coming Decline
There are first signs that the novel Cornoavirus (nCoV19) epidemic will come to an end within a month or so. An analysis from the Chinese media house Caixin provides the newest numbers (machine translated):
[O]n January 31, 2020, 2102 new cases of new coronavirus were diagnosed nationwide, 46 deaths were added, and 5019 suspected cases were added which increased by 6.1%, 7.0%, and 4.3% respectively compared with the previous day, and increased by 21.8%, 29.0%, and 23.3% respectively compared with the average of the previous three days.
There are some 12.000 recognized infected persons in total. More than 99.9% of all nCoV19 cases are in China. The growth per day is still strong but not exponential. With people now traveling less from, to and within China the epidemic will likely stay contained.
We had documented in an earlier post that neither the infectiousness nor the mortality of the novel Cornoavirus are especially severe. This New York Times graphic also explains that. <

Posted by: xeno | Oct 20 2020 15:09 utc | 198

@David #76
Biden has been spending money (from health care oligarchs and banksters) but he hasn’t been campaigning. And when he has, the turnout has been lackluster (as b notes).
As for Nate Silver: predicting Democrat wins in the Obama honeymoon era is hardly a show of skill.
I personally think the election is going to be close, but COVID-19 and the economic disaster is a huge negative possibly sufficient to unseat a Trump that would otherwise have won.
We will see.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 20 2020 15:14 utc | 199

@ptb #97
Michael Moore said that Biden is deliberately not churning out yard signs “in order to not rile up the Trump voter”.
This election is the Democrats all-in on “not Trump”.
Biden is also apparently not campaigning this week in order to “prepare for the next debate”.
Trump, on the other hand, is the Energizer Bunny.
If the swing states really depend on a handful of votes – Trump’s manic campaigning certainly doesn’t hurt.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 20 2020 15:18 utc | 200