Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 08, 2020

Why A Biden Presidency Will Disappoint Progressive Democrats

A Biden presidency will be another disappointment for the progressives who support the Democrats campaign.

The Washington Post is lauding Joe Biden's 'flexibility' on policy issues:

When Joe Biden released economic recommendations two months ago, they included a few ideas that worried some powerful bankers: allowing banking at the post office, for example, and having the Federal Reserve guarantee all Americans a bank account.

But in private calls with Wall Street leaders, the Biden campaign made it clear those proposals would not be central to Biden’s agenda.

“They basically said, ‘Listen, this is just an exercise to keep the Warren people happy, and don’t read too much into it,’ ” said one investment banker, referring to liberal supporters of Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.). The banker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private talks, said that message was conveyed on multiple calls.

By making promises to the more progressive parts of the Democrats while secretly pledging different policies to the rich Joe Biden is following the 'flexibility' of Barack Obama. During his first presidential campaign Obama promised several times that he would renegotiate NAFTA, the free trade agreement with Canada and Mexico. But behind the back of his supporters he secretly send envoys to Canada to let the government there know that he did not intend to implement that promise:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has ordered an investigation into how reporters obtained a memo detailing a discussion between Canadian diplomats and a member of Obama’s team. The memo said the Obama adviser indicated that the candidate’s criticism of NAFTA was primarily political.

Obama’s team denied he was being insincere, but rival Hillary Clinton said the memo showed her opponent could not be trusted. Both candidates blame the free trade agreement for U.S. job losses and vow to change or even abandon the deal, an act that could hurt Canada’s economy and damage ties between the world’s two largest trading partners.

Biden is showing such 'flexibility' on multiple issues:

This reluctance to be pinned down on policy details is central to Biden’s campaign, which has focused on a pledge to “restore the soul of the nation” rather than any particular legislative holy grail. While Biden has issued a raft of proposals, he’s often taken an all-things-to-all-people approach, sometimes making strong public declarations while relying on aides to soothe critics behind the scenes.

The ones who would be most disappointed with a center-right Biden regime will be those 'progressives' who currently support his campaign. Whatever they get promised now does not mean anything:

The Biden campaign said the economic recommendations were produced jointly by supporters of Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and were never intended as official policy.
...
[T]he Biden team views the task forces’ ideas as merely recommendations, while many Sanders supporters consider them binding.

At the same time Biden's foreign policy team is filling up with liberal interventionists from the Obama era and with neoconservatives:

Never-Trumper Republicans have been worming their way into the Biden campaign, offering to flesh out his “coalition” ahead of the election and pushing their way into the foreign policy discussions, particularly on China. Given their shared history with the liberal interventionists already in the campaign, don’t for a second think that there aren’t hungry neoconservatives among them trying to get a seat at the table.
...
These guys are charter members of the Washington foreign policy consensus, mixed in with neoconservative never-Trumpers like Eliot Cohen and Robert Kagan (his wife Victoria Nuland was a top neocon official in the Clinton State Department) who have despised Trump from the beginning and think his America First foreign policy is “deeply misguided” and leading the country to “crisis.” Kagan, who openly supported Hillary Clinton in 2016, has already authored at least one anti-Trump foreign policy op-ed with top Biden advisor Anthony Blinken. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. 

A Biden win will mean a revival of the war on Syria, no renewal of the nuclear deal with Iran and other hawkish foreign policies:

Anyone therefore hoping for a softening of U.S. policy towards Iran, should Biden win, may be pinning too much hope on Bernie Saunders or ‘The Squad’ being able to ‘round off the sharp edges from U.S. foreign policy stances’ – they may be being overly-optimistic. It is just too obvious: As China veers towards Iran and the Middle East in search of energy-supply security, the temptation of any success with forcing a hawkish stance on China will be to link the two (Iran and China), and to try to push for a ‘kill-two-birds-with-one-stone’ policy stance.

Sure, the policies of a Biden presidency would look more polished and presentable than the boorish ways in which Trump acts. That is the main reason why the Washington establishment rejects Trump and supports Biden.

But we can certainly expect that a Biden presidency, won in the election or through the Democrats well planned color revolution scheme, will be to the right of the center-right policies Barack Obama implemented. This will hold for domestic policies issues as well as with regards to foreign policy.

Posted by b on September 8, 2020 at 17:35 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@100 alpi... thanks... for a minute i thought you might be paco as the answer came right away! i think you and paco are dreaming if you think b is going to focus on articles on germany just because he lives in germany... and i think you are dreaming if you think trump is going to turn around and normalize relations with russia and china.... negotiating with iran? more dreaming on your part... get the covid lie under control... yes, that seems to be working like a hot dam at this point.. as for first order - coming down hard to blm-antifa - he is selling himself as the law and order guy, lol.... what more do you want from a first or third rate salesman?? it is about the sales pitch, not what the sales person sells you... after you buy the pitch, he doesn't give a fuck... keep on dreaming..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2020 5:37 utc | 101

It's a one party system. lol.

Posted by: janice | Sep 9 2020 6:06 utc | 102

After reading this here - The Trojan Donkey by one Jeff Thomas - I don't think there's going to be any opportunity for being disappointed by Joseph Biden's policies. Bottom line: he may be the Democrats' candidate, but as a president he's already on his way out. Biden: “Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else.” So Harris becomes president if the Dems win, and then what? She picks a VP, of her own choice, who has to be confirmed by congress? Make Clinton that choice and it will be a double tap, or triple tap, on the American public.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 9 2020 6:06 utc | 103

Yes. Yes!
Demonize the communists and promote the fascists!
The plan is working perfectly. Everyone will want to kill everyone!
Muahahahaha

Posted by: Cadence calls | Sep 9 2020 6:14 utc | 104

@Scotch Bingeington, Biden sees himself as a bridge which the democrats are trying to sell to you?

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Sep 9 2020 6:19 utc | 105

In Europe,when talking tax evasion paradises,the State of Delaware is always on the list.Supposing that Joe Biden in his 4-year career has to do something with that fact,it is no surprise that the bankster/armsdealer owned european press never,really never connects his name to this situation.....

Posted by: willie | Sep 9 2020 7:38 utc | 106

That should be 40 years of course.Since I sat on my keyboard the zero's need pushing hard to come out

Posted by: willie | Sep 9 2020 7:54 utc | 107

@ Tuyzentfloot | 105

Sure, a bridge to a golden future! :-)

But seriously, I'm not American so I guess the Dems aren't trying to sell me anything. And what do you think, how long would Biden actually be in office, should they somehow get hold of the presidency? Given the state he's in.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 9 2020 8:00 utc | 108

What is Wrong with Old Joe? Biden Thinks Democrats Control the US Senate

77-year-old Joe Biden thinks the Democrats control the Senate.

They don’t.

In a virtual appearance at a Doug Jones rally Monday, Joe Biden said Democrats need to keep control of the U.S. Senate.

“We have to do more than just beat Trump,” Biden said. “We have to keep the House of Representatives and the United States Senate.”

Biden said this as he appeared to be reading from a teleprompter.

WATCH:

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1303403570306396160

What is wrong with old Joe?

Earlier this year Biden told a South Carolina crowd that he’s the ‘Democratic candidate for the United States Senate.’

“My name is Joe Biden. I’m a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate. Look me over. [slurs words]..if you don’t like me, you can vote for the other Biden — give me a look though, okay?”

This is the best the Democrats have.

http://www.madnesshub.com/2020/09/what-is-wrong-with-old-joe-biden-thinks.html

Posted by: Mao | Sep 9 2020 8:52 utc | 109

Holocaust Museum Shares 14 Signs Of Fascism In Its Early Stages, People Now See A Connection To The Current State of US Politics

http://www.madnesshub.com/2020/09/holocaust-museum-shares-14-signs-of.html

Posted by: Mao | Sep 9 2020 8:57 utc | 110

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.

When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.

Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

Posted by: Mao | Sep 9 2020 9:01 utc | 111

You can only be disappointed if you were expecting better.

Posted by: Johny Conspiranoid | Sep 9 2020 9:07 utc | 112

In the US, although people constantly complain about the government almost none of them really opposes the system in any significant way.

Celebrity fan club/sports fan-type partisan devotion to either halves of the One-Party is a potent inoculant vs. developing any real opposition or contempt toward the government-media system as such.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 9 2020 9:15 utc | 113

Fox News doctor wants unvaccinated children to wear yellow badges, just like Jews had to wear yellow stars in Nazi Germany

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-08-12-fox-news-doctor-unvaccinated-children-wear-yellow-badges.html

Posted by: Mao | Sep 9 2020 9:30 utc | 114

Good news concerning Covid-19! Long-term effects are apparently reversable.

Posted by: m | Sep 9 2020 10:09 utc | 115

Nothing ever changed for better in the USA. But the whole edifice is collapsing around them anyway.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 9 2020 10:18 utc | 116

Of course! Yet again the totalitarian capitalist mafia have hoisted a right wing politician to head the Democrat ticket. Kamala Harris is a right wing law and order cop. The problem is that "liberals" have become 1980s ultra-conservative Republicans. This has been the case since Bill Clinton and Al Gore's Democratic Leadership Council took over the party in 1992. "Liberals" and "progressives" only dislike war when the Republicans wage it. The Dems have made it clear that they would rather let Trump win than to implement one policy that their constituents desire. Yet the "Left" keeps voting for them just to keep out the reactionary "White Man's Party" known as the Republicans. The result is that one gets multicultural fascism implemented by Blacks, women and homosexuals who espouse egalitarian rhetoric but who continue to wage wars, decimate the social safety net and redistribute the national wealth upwards to the top 10%. The Dems commit anal rape wearing condoms and lube while the Republicans commit anal sexual assault using a club spiked with nails. Is it any wonder that 100 million Americans don't vote?

Posted by: Der Kosmonaut | Sep 9 2020 10:33 utc | 117

I am not US citizen, but the way I see it you are doomed either ways!

Posted by: padre | Sep 9 2020 11:44 utc | 118

"A Biden presidency will disappoint progressive democrats": do ya think? Absolutely SHOCKING revelations by the b-meister. And in other news, water is wet and the sun rises tomorrow morning....

Posted by: deschutes | Sep 9 2020 12:05 utc | 119

So many illusions here... so many false hope...

On a side note, this came out today:

The Electoral College Will Destroy America

That the EC is inherently undemocratic, I don't dispute. It is and the math is simple. Smaller States have the Senate (which was specifically designed for this) to have their voice heard, so there's no justification whatsoever for the EC.

However, it is doubtful the extinction of the EC will trigger another revival of the American economy. This would only be truth if the over-represented States are objectively dragging the rest of the USA down, in a way that their neutralization would liberate a lot of suppressed potential from the overpopulated States (this effectively happened after the War of Secession).

But 2020 isn't 1861: I don't see any data indicating the likes of California, Texas, Florida and New York being dragged economically by the other States. The reason for this is simple: the system is still the same (capitalism), in a way the capitalist class has full freedom of movement and investment in the whole extent of American territory. Democracy has nothing to do with it.

Posted by: vk | Sep 9 2020 12:13 utc | 120

So Harris becomes president if the Dems win, and then what? She picks a VP, of her own choice, who has to be confirmed by congress? Make Clinton that choice and it will be a double tap, or triple tap, on the American public.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 9 2020 6:06 utc | 103

Oh please! Hillary has Trump's ego; she'd never agree to play 2nd fiddle to Harris. She only agreed to be O's SoS because she thought it might advantage her in the next campaign. Instead it worked against her. And one more thing: Biden who ran 3 times will not quit the Presidency; this is nonsense. However, he may not run in 2024; and leave the field open for others including Harris.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 9 2020 12:16 utc | 121

This reference to a "color revolution" is nuts. The term is only meaningful in terms of efforts to overthrow authoritarian rulers who continue to favor SOE's, with Milosevic being typical. Once they are overthrown, a neoliberal regime takes over. Does that describe the opposition to Donald Trump? His deregulation and assaults on publicly-owned land in the West mark him as neoliberalism on steroids.

Posted by: Louis N Proyect | Sep 9 2020 12:19 utc | 122

Louis N Proyect @122

"Color revolution" can be whatever you want it to be when you decide to make up your own definition of it. Whether using such terms with your own personal definitions has any rhetorical value is another question, the answer of which is "No."

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2020 12:30 utc | 123

@109 Mao

And you just made my point on why Biden won't be looking to start any wars. He's too old for war; doesn't need that kind of negative energy wearing him down; not to mention the aggravation and stress.

He's going to reactivate JCPOA talks and cool the Trump jets on China. However, on Palestine and Venezuela he might continue down the Trump low road but may not agree with the handover of the entire West Bank.

Trump on the other hand has a hot obsession with taking on Iran and breaking China's advancement, and stealing Venezuela's oil, or making Venezuela heel to U.S. imperial needs.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 9 2020 12:34 utc | 124

The dembot's delusions are going off the scale in order to shill for Biden. Seeing that kind of prostitution always makes me cringe.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2020 12:45 utc | 125

"Not The Same Joe": Former Stenographer Says Biden's Cognitive Ability Has Declined Significantly

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/not-same-joe-former-stenographer-says-bidens-cognitive-ability-has-declined-significantly

That the corrupt and totalitarian (and treasonous coup participating) DNC would run a candidate that has few marbles left
to lose is as bizarre as it is a good fit for them. That Democratic voters will actually vote for said candidate is...well...I was
going to say crazy ... when it triggered something. You probably don't remember but for years I have said that in a word I describe Republicans as Jerks and Democrats as crazy. I will have to revise that now and Capitalize both words.

Democrats are Crazy

Posted by: librul | Sep 9 2020 13:43 utc | 126

Back in the day -- 80s and 90s -- there was a populist publication called The Spotlight. Their position was that all members of the Federal Reserve should be required to offer checking accounts to anyone and nationalize the Federal Reserve and repudiate the Federal debt. It is obvious that Agent Orange and even Joe Blow are far to the right of the former The Spotlight and in the worst of possible ways.

P.S. What does the former Canadian hockey player Bernie Saunders have to do with anything???

Posted by: William Haught | Sep 9 2020 13:48 utc | 127

Posted by: Alpi | Sep 9 2020 4:27 utc | 100 He just criticized the Pentagon for perpetuating wars just to make money for the MIC. I mean how much more blatant can he get.

Dude, he simply is saying what he thinks will play to bis base. In every other respect, it is *meaningless* what he says - no matter *what* he says.

People who are still trying to parse this idiot are delusional. He does *not* have *any* views about *anything* except his own personal power and impression of himself. Period. End of story.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 9 2020 14:00 utc | 128

The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is the Dems give you a reach around. Spare the lube, save the environment!

Posted by: Shadow | Sep 9 2020 14:03 utc | 129

There will be no Biden presidency. Trump is already the selected one to win, because he's appeased the military industrial complex and the zionist lobby.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 9 2020 14:14 utc | 130

You know, the thing that pisses me off most about the US' political system is that they want you to DONATE money to them. It's not enough that they are gaslighting you, enslaving you, keeping you poor and oppressed, etc. etc., they want donations too. All those poor homeless people with no food are supposed to make donations too, or they deserve it. Money is speech, no money no speech, no money, no representation. Government of money, by money, and for money.

It's not enough to be screwing you, they want gratitude.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 9 2020 14:21 utc | 131

Trump’s Execution Spree Continues at Federal Killing Ground in Indiana
The Trump administration is on track to carry out the most federal executions in 40 years.

Want to see how many he can do in a second term?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 9 2020 14:51 utc | 132

Offtopic - Covid

Study finds people who recover with mild symptoms or no symptoms do not gain long term immunity, perhaps because their immune system did not have to work hard and was able to fight it off with a non-specific response. SCMP

Implications to vaccines TBD ... but it seems in line with the observations in US trials that multiple shots improved effectiveness (not particularly surprising), in which case the dual vector Gamaleya vaccine is well positioned.

Posted by: ptb | Sep 9 2020 15:31 utc | 133

It is quite the expose' to witness the US election process. IT is irrefutable evidence/testimony, to my way of thinking, that a huge portion of Americans have effectively disconnected their brains.

The number of folks who simply ignore what is "in your face" obvious is astounding!!

How can any conscious person not see that putting forward a mentally and cognitively unsound candidate for President of the USA, a country that possess one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world and has clearly said and demonstrated that it is willing and capable of unleashing it preemptively on anyone who fails to obey our diktats - whether they have nucs or not; how can everyone not see that we, the public, the citizens, the electorate are being mocked; our own cognition and awareness is being made fun of, not to mention taken advantage of!

The US government has lost all credibility here and abroad and our political institutions are clearly corrupted to the point of being non-functional shams...

Going along as if everything is normal is insanity!

You can't demonstrate Greatness, nor be Great, by placing in powerful positions idiots, narcissists, socio-paths and mental defectives. Doing so underscores the blatant dishonesty of all those that would make out that others across the globe are evil dictator regimes demonstrating existential threats and needing to be replaced by what we are.

To even speak, in any context, of former vice-President Joe Biden as a real candidate is to demonstrate a complete disconnect from reality.

The thing is, what we accept as "real" clearly demonstrates who WE, as a society, ARE.

Neither current President Trump nor Democratic nominee for President, Joe Biden are anything more than glaring examples of just how Great we aren't.

You will not fix this by going along merrily arguing about who is the worse electoral choice and participating in the sham.

The crossroads is now.

Posted by: Mostly Lurking | Sep 9 2020 15:39 utc | 134

Thomas Frank has it right: Thomas Frank at Naked Capitalism

Skipping ahead forty years to the Great Depression, we can see that it’s easy to condemn the DuPonts and the American Liberty League and the Republicans for smearing Roosevelt and the New Deal. But all of their anti-populist rhetoric was the predictable blowback of oligarchs who sensed an imminent threat to their privilege.

So who’s really to blame? The establishment Democrats are, that is to say, the Liberal Class. They are. At least for the past nearly seven decades. For the official Liberalism of the Democratic Party has become, as Frank has been telling us for years, the politics of an elite, of the properly-credentialed Professional Class, a class devoted to advancing its own interests with aggressive moral smugness — “moral narcissism” is the deliciously ironic term Frank used in one interviewto describe this elite orgy of moral superiority — and thus with undisguised contempt for the working class.

That their party, the Democratic Party, once the party of the common people, once the party of, well, democracy, has become the party of the high-achieving winners— of the conquistadors of the meritocracy — of the newfangled hipper-than-thou smarter-than-thou richer-than-thou woker-than-thou Silicon Valley + Wall Street oligarchy — is the great theme of Frank’s work since he published What’s the Matter with Kansa sin 2004. A great theme it is, yes, but a very bitter pill for many sympathetic readers to swallow.

The really sad part? Frank is clearly still Democrat-hopeful. Yet the party which has most recently elected a non-PMC is the Republican party. Per the article I posted several weeks ago: there are may who identify as conservative who disagree with the oligarchic mainstream Republican party platform.

Most of what we see now is the same old divide and conquer/watch out for the commies/deplorables nonsense - or as Frank puts it, the establishment fighting back against the people. What is ironic is that the memes being used to attack populism are identical to what was used against Bryan successfully, against FDR unsuccessfully and as the PMC-crat parties official line for over a generation.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 9 2020 15:55 utc | 135

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 9 2020 15:55 utc | 135

Yep, that's the problem: The Treason of the Intellectuals.

The treason of the intellectuals & “The Undoing of Thought”

It's like the intelligentsia here sold out en masse sometime in the 70s, "loot wins", "greed is good!", etc. Disco was soooo emblematic of the artistic and intellectual sellout. And here we are now.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 9 2020 16:11 utc | 136

Progressives in the democratic party have convinced themselves that they can move Biden to the left when he wins the election. Fat chance and delusional.

Trump will win Oregon. BLM has been invading residential areas.

In 2-to-three years, there will be a nuclear war with Russia if Biden is elected. Biden the war monger will get lots of pressure from the media and base to confront and show Putin a thing of two. My bet is the whole shebang will start in Syria probably with a no-fly zone. But won't rule out some false flag from the Ukraine trying to draw in NATO into a shooting war with Russia. Maybe some NATO idiot will drop a bomb in Russian territory and claim it was an oppsie.

I would say get your affairs in order, but there will be nobody around to care.

Posted by: Erelis | Sep 9 2020 16:14 utc | 137

Thank you, ptb @ 96. I'm not good at picking horse races, and this is the mother of all of those.

But one thing the Democrats have shown very clearly is that they ignore (or in worst case scenario they 'play') their base. That has disaffected many, and it ought not to be rewarded. Whether it is enough to swing what is a diseased system according to the way voters will be inclined to vote remains to be seen. Forces will be set in place against it, just as they were in the primaries.

I'm sure many are disaffected with Trump who voted for him last time, disappointed he has not fulfilled many of his promises. But I say again that is partly because he has had an uphill climb. Worse, I would say, than the one Jimmy Carter had in his own party. Which is why I still consider Carter to have been an honorable president - he couldn't do as much as he clearly wanted to do, and he was replaced by skulduggery of the worst kind, as history makes clear. This Trump period could well have been happening like that.

I still think there are possibilities for Trump. I don't think that for Biden. And to my mind, which has strongly inclined to the Democratic Party in the past, they have fallen away from their tasks in opposition, and that is a major fault. They need to be held accountable, perhaps even replaced in future.

Don't be played again, Democrats.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 9 2020 16:19 utc | 138

I question the term "liberal interventionists" as the interventionists rarely have good intentions but merely pretenses. They are a mix of military industry dependents upon fear and war, and those seeking other personal gains from war, such as the zionists. Those tribes all seek tribal gains at the expense of everyone else, and they all wrap themselves in the flag and praise their lord to seem liberal. In fact they are neofascists with few exceptions, and differ from the right wing only in their pretenses of holiness and democracy, while enjoying US theft and murder for private gain, which could not be more adverse to US interests.

Posted by: Sam F | Sep 9 2020 16:21 utc | 139

@100 101 & 128

Have you seen this?

Imperfect (for example, no mention of BO's 2014 Ukraine coup) but worth a thousand words:

https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/2020-09-09_6-21-07.jpg?itok=AIJpnPR5

Posted by: librul | Sep 9 2020 16:26 utc | 140

@bevin (87) I understand the appeal of voting for a genuine progressive candidate, but I also understand that the Green Party candidate has zero chance of winning the election. Hence, a vote for said candidate is a statement vote that will make one feel better on the inside but accomplish nothing politically. Sadly, the United States is locked in a two party system (which is a direct consequence of the Constitutional requirement for a candidate to amass a majority of Electoral College votes in order to win the presidency). If a third party should arise that has a chance of meeting that requirement, then I will support it, but not until then.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 9 2020 16:32 utc | 141

@ jul. 137
Worse, I would say, than the one Jimmy Carter had in his own party.
Nope, Carter had it much worse. He could get no support from the Repub Senate especially Kennedy who opposed Carter for re-election. Also Scoop Jackson and others fought Carter.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 9 2020 16:38 utc | 142

@Posted by: Rob | Sep 9 2020 16:32 utc | 140

"If a third party should arise that has a chance of meeting that requirement, then I will support it, but not until then."

WTF

If every defeatist that ever stated something akin to what you drooled
went ahead and voted Green then
Green would win in a landslide.

You are putting your cart before the horse.

Posted by: librul | Sep 9 2020 16:41 utc | 143

@ librul... no, i hadn't seen it but it's a good picture! trump hasn't officially started a war, but he's working on it with the position towards venezuala, iran and a few other places.. it is topical.. others might describe it differently..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2020 16:43 utc | 144

ptb, this was very good from you, thank you:

"..The empire is going to get downsized one way or another. When its all over, if the good folks making the calls don't screw it up completely, Americans will live a better life. Less guns, more butter. People in all the places we bombed and regime changed will get a chance to rebuild..."

It is my hope also.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 9 2020 16:44 utc | 145

It's in the eye of the beholder, Mr Bacon @ 141, and thank you for reminding us of what Carter faced. I was considering 'worse' as regards the fabric of the presidency being threatened, the executive branch, if you like. Qualitatively, for Carter himself, indeed as they say, he was sorely put upon.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 9 2020 16:50 utc | 146

@ Richard Steven Hack 128

I rather have a self serving buffoon as president than an evil pedophile like Killary. Don’t make a mistake. This is Clinton’s party and presidency.

I am not delusional, not in a least. I know who Trump is and what he wants. If it means to keep us out of another war, let him thump his chest and say look at me. I’m ok with that. Since the bar is so low for presidential candidates.

Anyway, like I mentioned before, we have to wait and see who the Wizard chooses.

Posted by: Alpi | Sep 9 2020 17:07 utc | 147

@bevin #87
I disagree with your strategy 100%.
Voting for Hawkins is literally a waste of time.
So long as the Democrat party - the supposed party of the people - remains captured by the PMC, then there is zero hope for progress.
The very fact that Trump won the Presidency shows just how corrupt and out of touch the Democrats are; the rerun of Credit Card Joe in 2020 doubles down on the same (ideologically) inbred band.
Sadly, it seems more likely that the Republicans will be remade than the Democrats.
If this seems terrifying, it should be.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 9 2020 17:19 utc | 148

@Posted by: Alpi | Sep 9 2020 17:07 utc | 146

You may get "the last laugh" (though, who would want to be correct?)

I myself have contemplated the biggest of earthquakes. What if ...

What if Joe wets (literally) himself on stage? (or something as damning) Biden rides off into the sunset with a box of Depends
and the DNC is tasked with picking his replacement. By DNC rules the successor candidate does not necessarily
have to be the runner-up in terms of delegates nor Biden's running mate (KKKamala). The DNC could choose Hillary
if they wanted to.

Hillary again is just too much to even imagine, but who else is out there?

Posted by: librul | Sep 9 2020 17:23 utc | 149

A genuine, bonafide Progressive wouldn't belong to the D-Party or vote for a corporate whore like Biden. Period. Many have bemoaned the lack of a genuine, bonafide Progressive Party within the Outlaw US Empire, although several such parties exist. The newest of these is in its formative stages and calls itself the Movement for a People's Party, which as you'll read had initially hung its hopes on drafting Sanders--BUT--it allows people to participate and inject ideas. The bottom line is either citizens get involved in trying to change a system that so greatly affects them or they don't and cease complaining since they no longer have room to do so since they aren't involved in trying to make change happen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 17:27 utc | 150

@ librul 148

Saw your Zerohedge Link. Thanks. But I imagine all these nay-sayers knew that already. Like godfather once said, unfortunately, hatred is clouding their reason.

Hillary doesn’t really need the presidency other than to satisfy her ego. In the unfortunate event that dems win, she will control the levers without any legal hassles. The best of both worlds.

My only contention in this race is that I want the person that is going to do the least amount of damage. And that is Trump, hands down. Can’t stand the guy either but.......

If the dems win, we will have a global conflict, Mr. Gates will realize his Orwellian wet dream and you and I won’t be here to write about it.

Posted by: Alpi | Sep 9 2020 17:38 utc | 151

@ Alpi @ 100 "Bankers want him out of the way so they can save the dollar with a global conflict. But the dollar is a forgone conclusion. He just criticized the Pentagon for perpetuating wars just to make money for the MIC. I mean how much more blatant can he get."

Well, that was yesterday, dude. Today, the Trump administration is asking that Congress give them some, er, flexibility when they do their "stopgap" (i.e., continuing resolution) spending measures which will keep the gov't open after the funding expires on 30 Sept. What does Trump want them to finance beyond the current funding? Extra funding for the Space Force (which specifies nukes in space), new nuclear subs, new ballistic missile subs, and funding for a new nuclear warhead. One might note that his administration has increased the Pentagon budget beyond what it ever was before he came into office.

[see: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/515577-white-house-asks-for-flexibility-in-space-force-funding-in-stopgap-spending ]


Trump always lies and he never, never, never shuts up. I won't vote for him just because I am sick of the two-faced, greedy, cruel idiot and I just want him to shut the fuck up.

Posted by: teri | Sep 9 2020 17:56 utc | 152

David @19

Oh so bloody true.

And could someone please tell me what "progressive" means? To me it is utterly empty of meaning, a word used to cover over, lipstick the blue piggie face of the Janus party (I do not mean to insult pigs, who can be charming critters unlike their so called "human" counterparts). It is the bourgeoisie making themselves comfortable while actually, factually giving up nothing, especially of the pecuniary variety.

"Progressives" are NOT truly Left Wing, not even bloody socialists. Socialism/Social democracy is a political position which is NOT revolutionary but is Reformist - of capitalism; i.e. advocates softening capitalism's edges, its face, not eradicating it altogether. That's Communism. Thta's revolutionary....

Posted by: Anne | Sep 9 2020 18:05 utc | 153

@150 alpi

Look at all these idiots waiting for Godot for their next President.

Someone who is favorable to China, their hero, and also that someone must look out for the American worker.

No shit. Read the above sentence and are you noticing anything contradictory about being Pro-China and Pro-U.S. worker?

But that is who many serial posters here are waiting for. Hilariously sad, both these who peddle such garbage and those who quickly lap it up and throw praise on them.

Why? Because they are old? Wise? Well-read?

...

Not only do I agree with you that anyone other than Trump will bring us to the brink of war with Russia, but that the fact Trump is not aligned with any of the nefarious forces of import nowadays, whether Big Tech, Gates, neocons, globalists, says to me that he's my guy, hands down.

Some ding dongs on here waiting for an Obama-esque orator with the policy of a...a...I don't even flippin' know. What do these guys want?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2020 18:19 utc | 154

That being said, wanted to throw up a concern for my fellow Oregonians.

Hope they are safe from the wildfires which are quickly engulfing many areas.

I will hope and pray for your safety!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2020 18:23 utc | 155

Rob @Sep9 16:32 #140

c1ue @Sep9 17:19 #147

A vote for one of the two major parties is much more of a wasted vote than a vote for a third-party.

When you vote for one of the major-party candidates, you are voting to approve the money-based political system that protests the wealthy and the Deep State. You're voting for Empire, propaganda, and servitude. Like a turkey voting for Thanksgiving.

Furthermore, it's difficult NOT to see that all recent President's have been Selected based on Deep State political manipulation:

  • 1992: Bill Clinton won because Ross Perot re-entered the race;
  • 2000: Gore conceded to GW Bush >i>despite actually winning!;
  • 2008: The Deep State delivered Obama change candidate(tm) - McCain-Palin never had a chance against the fresh face of bullshit;
  • 2016: Hillary beat sheepdog Sanders only to throw the race to Trump - who was the ONLY Republican to position himself as a populist (in field of 19 candidates!) - by screwing (progressives), ignoring (blacks), and insulting (whites) key continuances.

Democracy Works! propagandists are laughing at all the exceptional! dumbf*cks that can't pull their head out of their assess. People who get supremely agitated if short-changed at the grocery store readily accept a system that regularly screws them, their family, and their friends and neighbors. LOL.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 18:31 utc | 156

librul @Sep9 16:26 #140

The Mostly Peaceful Trump meme is a false narrative. And the promotion of that lie is frightening as it hands Trump leverage to take the country to war (in his second term).

  • Trump has approved several acts of war as well as taken action that threatens peace:
    - unjustifiably accuses China of an act of war (deliberately spreading coronavirus);

    - attacked Syria with missiles TWICE based on chemical WMD attacks that were not known to be conducted by the Syrian government and were later found to have been conducted by ISIS.

    - occupies Syrian oil fields despite claiming that ISIS is defeated;

    - recognized Golan Heights as Israeli territory despite UN Resolutions that demand that Israel return the Golan Heights to Syria;

    - assassinated an Iranian General;

    - seized Venezuelan State assets and backed a coup;

    - supports Saudi Arabia in it's war against Yemen;

    - reneged on a peace agreement with North Korea;

    - withdrew from numerous international agreements that promote peace such as: JCPOA, INF, Open Skies, etc.;

    - is militarizing space.


    Trump also remains in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. He hasn't brought troops home, he's only moved them around the chessboard.
  • Trump is a bully who is egotistical and naturally belligerent;
  • The Deep State will decide if/when USA goes to war, not one of their Presidential stooges.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 18:58 utc | 157

librul @Sep9 16:26 #140

The Mostly Peaceful Trump meme is a false narrative. And the promotion of that lie is frightening as it hands Trump leverage to take the country to war (in his second term).

  • Trump has approved several acts of war as well as taken action that threatens peace:
    - unjustifiably accuses China of an act of war (deliberately spreading coronavirus);

    - attacked Syria with missiles TWICE based on chemical WMD attacks that were not known to be conducted by the Syrian government and were later found to have been conducted by ISIS.

    - occupies Syrian oil fields despite claiming that ISIS is defeated;

    - recognized Golan Heights as Israeli territory despite UN Resolutions that demand that Israel return the Golan Heights to Syria;

    - assassinated an Iranian General;

    - seized Venezuelan State assets and backed a coup;

    - supports Saudi Arabia in it's war against Yemen;

    - reneged on a peace agreement with North Korea;

    - withdrew from numerous international agreements that promote peace such as: JCPOA, INF, Open Skies, etc.;

    - is militarizing space.


    Trump also remains in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. He hasn't brought troops home, he's only moved them around the chessboard.
  • Trump is a bully who is egotistical and naturally belligerent;
  • The Deep State will decide if/when USA goes to war, not one of their Presidential stooges.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 18:58 utc | 158

"But we can certainly expect that a Biden presidency, won in the election or through the Democrats well planned color revolution scheme, will ..."

I have my doubts. How to bring to the streets a violent action by the core Biden constituency, senile Americans? Consider logistics like difficulty in finding a parking spot that would be sufficiently close to the venue of riots. Once walking, they could easily confuse directions (when you drive, there are electronic aids to consistently confused drivers, but it is harder to use them when you walk).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 9 2020 19:06 utc | 159

Diagnosis: The fake Americans, those neo-judeo-con artists are woven into DC politics like lung cancer, and infect both parties.
Treatment: surgically remove the tumors from the host.
Prognosis: grim

Posted by: Joetv | Sep 9 2020 19:10 utc | 160

Anne @153--

To find the proper definition of what it means to be Progressive politically, you must travel back in time. Most Progressives came from the Republican Party and were motivated by the ideals Roosevelt put forward in his famous 1910 speech at Osawatomie, Kansas. But you're close to being correct in your 2nd paragraph as it fits well with Gabriel Kolko's analysis in The Triumph of Conservatism: A Reinterpretation of American History, 1900–1916. However, Progressives differed from TR in they opposed war first and foremost and wanted to promote an equitable society where all people were treated equally, so no room for racists who were mostly within the D-Party at that time. TR's ideas on restraining corporations was radical then and even more radical today, and are really what makes his speech worth reading--I used to provide the entire transcript to students so they could compare his ideas with those forwarded by Debs. Of course, the tragedy of the 1912 election was it gave the presidency to Wilson and the Bankers.

The 1932 election brought Progressives to power, although FDR wasn't really very Progressive thanks to his Imperialist background, but many within his administration were, Harry Hopkins and Henry Wallace in particular. Eleanor Roosevelt was possibly the most strident Progressive as the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights shows beyond doubt--that was her child.

A Genuine Progressive must champion the UDHR, the UN Charter, and oppose all forms of warfare first and foremost--in other words, they must be a Collectivist. I'd characterize China's government as Progressive, along with Putin--they promote Win-Win. The Outlaw US Empire's the polar opposite as it promotes the Zero-sum goal of the Monopoly game as it's #1 policy goal announces--Full Spectrum Domination--a goal Trump has yet to renounce and instead has boosted to the realm of Space.

Was Sanders a Progressive? No. He supported the Outlaw US Empire. A Genuine Progressive would oppose it with all their being. And obviously, Obama wasn't, nor either Clinton. Indeed, the last Progressive administration died when FDR announced in late 1943 that Doctor New Deal had been replaced by Doctor Win The War, but Congress had already begun gutting many progressive programs setting the stage for the post-war clampdown and Cold War atmosphere/attitude.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 19:11 utc | 161

@JackRabbit #156
The difference between your view and mine is that you think that somehow voting for a 3rd party will magically overturn the networks of patronage that underlie the 2 major parties.

Whatever you want to say about Trump - a significant part of his difficulties as President of the United States is the utter lack of support even by his own purported party. This support consists of the SMEs and bureaucrats who fill the thousands and tens of thousands of positions opened by a new administration.

A 3rd party - if it could surpass one of the 2 major parties - wouldn't have this problem but the assumption that this is possible? Totally unrealistic.
Thus while I agree that the immediate impact of a vote is irrelevant - either for a 3rd party or one of the existing parties - the reality is that the duopoly can and does change.
The Democrat party changed in the 1990s, for example.
Ditto the Republicans from Lincoln to Reagan.
Going further back in time: The changes in duopoly from Whigs and Democrat-Republican etc occurred not because true "3rd parties" arose but because the networks shifted their allegiance and focus.
This is what Thomas Frank and others, correctly in my view, emphasize as opposed to the much more magical thinking of any 3rd party rising from nothing.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 9 2020 19:33 utc | 162

@karlof1 #160
Sorry, but you're wrong.
TR definitely did good things but his later platform was developed by and supported by the Populists - who started decades earlier and fielded a candidate for President in 1896 (William Jennings Bryan).
In fact, the tide of big company money that brought TR to the presidency was significantly in response to Bryan and the Populist uprising.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 9 2020 19:35 utc | 163

- I never had the the illusion that Biden has one "progressive" bone in his body. He is such an establishment figure.

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 9 2020 19:41 utc | 164

Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 18:31 utc

As I wrote, I disagree with Jackrabbit theory of "handpicking Presidents". Instead, Deep State prevents anyone who is actually inconvenient for them to get anywhere close to be a candidate of a major party. Most are good students who graduated from Military-Intelligence-Academic complex, and if not, they are trained during their careers.

Occasionally, a president gets some misbegotten ideas about peace making, human rights (applied to "friendly" governments) etc. and a huge noise machine plus Congress brings them to the "straight and narrow", so the situation is practically always "under control".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 9 2020 19:42 utc | 165

@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 18:58 utc | 157

Good and useful list.

Thx

Posted by: librul | Sep 9 2020 19:44 utc | 166

c1ue @Sep9 19:33 #161

... you think that somehow voting for a 3rd party will magically overturn the networks of patronage that underlie the 2 major parties.

You are demanding a silver bullet. Changing this corrupt system will not be easy or quick.

=
... a significant part of his [Trump's] difficulties as President of the United States is the utter lack of support even by his own purported party.

That is part of the kayfabe. Which Trump excels at. One of the reasons the Deep State selected him over Hillary.

He wouldn't be a "populist" if the establishment embraced him, would he?

=
... the reality is that the duopoly can and does change.

The only recent example that you cite is the Democrats change to Third-Way politics that benefited the establishment/Deep State. The ceased being a party of opposition and became a party of collusion.

Thus, it should be no surprise that Change You Can Believe In Obama didn't change anything.

And the Democrats used Bernie as controlled opposition (aka "sheepdog") to ensure that progressives are led into a ditch.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 20:10 utc | 167

Piotr Berman @Sep9 19:42 #164

I disagree with Jackrabbit theory of "handpicking Presidents". Deep State prevents anyone who is actually inconvenient for them to get anywhere close to be a candidate of a major party.

Recent history supports my hand-picking theory.

You may be thinking that hand-picking would be difficult. In our money-driven politics with controlled media, it isn't difficult for the Deep State to put their hand on the scale.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 20:17 utc | 168

The show and event that caused its premise are now a week old, but the first half of this Keiser Report digs into the genuine root of the Outlaw US Empire's problems, which ultimately stem from its Imperialism. 12.5 minutes is all the time you need to watch. As Max and Stacey note, we're clearly living in the world described by Frederic Bastiat. But the truth in his description is denied and censored--just cannot be mentioned as M & S note-although the street level looting can be and is apparently being justified so the much larger looting can be accepted. Bizarre! You bet, so take a few minutes and watch.

Of course, the #1 question is: How do we resolve our dilemma as more of the same has already been proven to be a massive failure.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 20:40 utc | 169

@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 18:58 utc | 157

I had said "thx".

Quickly looking at your list now ...

1) unjustifiably accuses China of an act of war (deliberately spreading coronavirus);

I find he said the opposite but maybe I found something dated.

June 19th, Trump: “I don’t think they would do that. But you never know. But it has had an impact.”

2) attacked Syria with missiles TWICE based on chemical WMD attacks that were not known to be conducted by the Syrian government and were later found to have been conducted by ISIS.

Those acts are the few - scant few - that the Democrats praised Trump. Hillary in fact said she would have done more.

3) occupies Syrian oil fields despite claiming that ISIS is defeated;

And embarrasses the Pentagon by speaking too much truth about it all being about oil.

4) recognized Golan Heights as Israeli territory despite UN Resolutions that demand that Israel return the Golan Heights to Syria;

Yep, Trump is a dickhead.

5) assassinated an Iranian General;

Yep, Trump is clueless. But I'll bet he learned a (partial) lesson about listening to his maniac advisors.

6) seized Venezuelan State assets and backed a coup;

Yep, blatant imperialist.

7) supports Saudi Arabia in it's war against Yemen;

Which Obama joined in days after accepting his Nobel Peace Prize (really happened, ten days after getting his prize, and Obama slaughtered dozens of civilians and then, with the help of Hillary, covered up his war crime).

8) reneged on a peace agreement with North Korea;

why did he do that?

9) withdrew from numerous international agreements that promote peace such as: JCPOA, INF, Open Skies, etc.;

yep, Trump has some loony advisors

10) is militarizing space.

MIC

Posted by: librul | Sep 9 2020 20:48 utc | 170

librul @Sep9 20:48 #169

=
1) I find he said the opposite

Every time Trump mouths the words "China Virus", he is blaming China.

=
2) Those acts are the few - scant few - that the Democrats praised Trump. Hillary in fact said she would have done more.

That doesn't excuse Trump's precipitous action.

=
3. And embarrasses the Pentagon by speaking too much truth about it all being about oil.

Is it really about the oil? C'mon. Obama said USA would make Syria a quagmire for Russia. Trump is making good on that threat by starving Syria of resources, imposing severe sanctions, preventing any reconstruction help, and probably also allowing ISIS to remain in USA/SDF areas.

In 2018 USA also threatened to bomb Syrian forces if Syria attempted to take Idlib from Turkey's control.

=
4) [Golan Heights] Yep, Trump is a dickhead.

He's an Imperial dickhead that is working with the Deep State to impose a "rules-based order".

5) [assassinated an Iranian General] Yep, Trump is clueless. But I'll bet he learned a (partial) lesson about listening to his maniac advisors.

Nah, his actions are very deliberate and I doubt very much that he does anything substantial without approval by the Deep State/TPTB.

=
6) [Venezuela] Yep, blatant imperialist.

And propagandists. And militarist.

=
7) [Yemen] Which Obama joined in days after accepting his Nobel Peace Prize

The Empire is a bi-partisan project.

=
8) [North Korea] why did he do that?

He was never serious about peace with NK. It was easy to pick on 'Rocket Man' and he desperately wanted to burnish his 'peace credentials' before a possible war (which nearly came with Iran during his first term - recall Iran's downing the drone and Trump's initial push to bomb Iran).

=
9) [withdrew from numerous international agreements] yep, Trump has some loony advisors

No excuse. Trump appointed these people and they serve at his pleasure.

=
10) [is militarizing space] MIC

Again, no excuse. MIC gets a boondoggle because Deep State is desperately looking for any advantage against Russia and China. Trump isn't being "peaceful/peace-loving" when he helps them each attain their goals.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

My list @Sep9 18:58 #157 is not meant to be complete.

One major thing I failed to mention is Trump's initial desire to bomb Iran after Iran downed the US drone. Trump ultimately declined to bomb Iran (after pleading with them to allow a light bombing to even the score). But some believe (as discussed at moa) that USA/Trump was hoping that Iran would down the P-8 instead of the drone so that US servicemen would be killed - which would've given Trump cause to launch a massive bombing of Iran.

Also, a few months after the downing of the drone, the Trump Administration and Israel met with Russia to demand that Russia allow some bombing of Iran. Russia refused.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 21:36 utc | 171

@JackRabbit #166
You said:

You are demanding a silver bullet. Changing this corrupt system will not be easy or quick.

Apparently my English is different than yours.
Voting for a 3rd party is precisely the magic bullet: that the large mass of people comprising each side of the duopoly will somehow disappear in favor of a 3rd party.
Convincing the mass of people, on the other hand, is what is truly neither easy nor quick.

You said:

That is part of the kayfabe. Which Trump excels at. One of the reasons the Deep State selected him over Hillary.

He wouldn't be a "populist" if the establishment embraced him, would he?

You need to define what "the establishment" is. Is it HRC, WJC and the Democrat party? What about the professors, tech companies, eco-warriors of various stripes?

You don't seem to understand that there are divisions and opposing self interest even among the 0.1%.

Nor is your assertion of the Kayfabe particularly convincing when the 3rd Bush and the other Clinton failed to make the grade.

You said:

The only recent example that you cite is the Democrats change to Third-Way politics that benefited the establishment/Deep State. The ceased being a party of opposition and became a party of collusion.

Thus, it should be no surprise that Change You Can Believe In Obama didn't change anything.

And the Democrats used Bernie as controlled opposition (aka "sheepdog") to ensure that progressives are led into a ditch.


Recent defined by who? Perhaps you have forgotten, or never witnessed, the revolution that Reagan brought about.

Change happens all the time.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 9 2020 22:38 utc | 172

karlof1 @168

"As Max and Stacey note, we're clearly living in the world described by Frederic Bastiat. But the truth in his description is denied and censored--just cannot be mentioned as M & S note-although the street level looting can be and is apparently being justified so the much larger looting can be accepted. Bizarre! You bet, so take a few minutes and watch.

Of course, the #1 question is: How do we resolve our dilemma as more of the same has already been proven to be a massive failure"

I'll skip the Max+Stacey show, if you don't mind, but thanks for the Frederic Bastiat mention. Entirely new to me. Googling him now. His quotes at least look interesting.
Just found what looks like a complete collection of his published writings here: https://oll.libertyfund.org/people/frederic-bastiat

Posted by: Triden | Sep 9 2020 22:53 utc | 173

@172
Pretty sure that's not what he had in mind.

Posted by: ptb | Sep 9 2020 23:25 utc | 174

Just to slip my two cents worth under the door after hours: "Progressive Democrats" has become an oxymoron,a cover-word so vague and multi-interpretative that it is meaningless, like "liberal" or "Freedom" or "Third World" (where be that Second world buffer between all them and usens, anyway?) and it needs to be parsed. The Democratic Party some claim to belong to is equally meaningless nomenclature. It is a chimera, not a band of working-class brothers, belief in which is propagated by DNC priests who not only are contemptuous of the working-class base they claim to represent but only give lip service to issues they think their out-of-date demographics care about. They focused solely on defeating Sanders, who dared preach "government by and for The People", and had nobody but Biden who they could depend on to tow the company line to put lipstick on and how that somehow pigs can fly. I don't think they care about winning; it's actually easier to cry ne plus ultra, as Obama did, even when he controlled both houses of congress. That Bernie insisted on touting a Political Revolution, taking on Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, and everything in between turned out to be sheer rhetoric before slipping blithely back into the fold was a betrayal of what I'll call "true progressives" is another subject, but don't think for a second that Bernie has more than a handful of his minions listening to his endorsements now.
Without belaboring Biden's myriad faults and obvious dementia and the certainty of Trump's private Justice Department releasing a juicy October Surprise, and justified or not, the perennial animosity toward The Clintons and growing disappointment in (and contempt for) Obama, whose apron strings Biden ties himself to, I predict that at least 10 percent of voters, at the very least, will vote for Biden than did for Hillary and expect even less of a turnout. Biden has no ground game like Bernie fielded and this Great White Hope that YOU hope for Change and Decorum will be toast after the first debate. The only people who describe themselves as "Progressive Democrats" are best described by the term "neoliberal"; "progressives"? (such as I) have flown the coup, baby We won't be disapointed when Biden loses; while I won't vote for Trump, I will be in "toldyaso" mode. If it takes a lot more wage-slaves out on the street and soybean crops rotting in the field to wake up the somnambulant Merican public and kill the anachronistic Democratic Party, so be it. Whatever comes next is better than this. If we don't stop the cancer of the oligarchy that is killing the host the Civilized World (if there is one) will have to.
We have met the enemy and he is us.

Posted by: defaultcitizen | Sep 9 2020 23:49 utc | 175

c1ue @Sep9 22:38 #171

Apparently my English is different than yours.

No, you said that you wouldn't consider voting for a third-party until/unless they had a chance to win. That is your "magic bullet": a third-party that magically appears in full bloom ready-to-win.

It will take organizing, Movement-building over several election cycles before a third-party is ready to be the contender that you are waiting for.

And as long as you and others refuse to consider a third-party and agitate against voting for a third-party, it will be difficult for a third-party to become a contender.

=
Voting for a 3rd party is precisely the magic bullet: that the large mass of people comprising each side of the duopoly will somehow disappear in favor of a 3rd party.

It starts with recognizing that the duopoly is a dead end.

Voting for any of the two major Parties is wasting your vote much more than voting for a third-party. Heck, a write-in would be better.

=
You need to define what "the establishment" is.

Establishment is the power-elite that control the two major Parties (the "duopoly").

It includes the Deep State, oligarchs, and "special interests" like industry groups and AIPAC.

=
You don't seem to understand that there are divisions and opposing self interest even among the 0.1%.

You don't seem to understand that there is a hierarchy of power and that the power-elite agree about much more than they disagree about.

Who are these power-elite? They are virtually all old white men and women who are millionaires/billionaires. These people AGREE with a police state that protects their capital and an Empire that is backed by a strong military. They AGREE with supremacist ideologies that preserve and extend their power: Zionism, neoconservatism, and neoliberalism. They AGREE that China should not be allowed to allowed to assume a position that challenges USA/Empire. They AGREE on tax cuts that make them wealthier as social programs are cut and more children go hungry.

=
Nor is your assertion of the Kayfabe particularly convincing when the 3rd Bush and the other Clinton failed to make the grade.

Trump was chosen because he could get the job done. It's as simple as that. The "3rd Bush" and the "other Clinton" are part of the team, not dictators.

=
Recent defined by who? Perhaps you have forgotten, or never witnessed, the revolution that Reagan brought about.

Reagan's "Revolution" is a misnomer. It wasn't a revolution. It was just the establishment asserting more control. Soon thereafter came the Democrat's 'Third-Way' response which amounted to a sell-out to wealthy interests. Thus my use of "collusion": by 1990 both Parties were working for the money.

=
Change happens all the time.

This is as trite as Hillary's claim to be a "progressive who gets things done".

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 23:50 utc | 176

Bill Carson | Sep 9 2020 3:38 utc | 99

"Why A Biden Presidency Will Disappoint Progressive Democrats"
And in other news, water is still wet and the Pope still wears a funny hat.
Look, we progressives are used to disappointment. It is sort of like being a Cleveland Browns fan."

All I'm looking for is for a better response to Covid.

Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 10 2020 0:30 utc | 177

"3) occupies Syrian oil fields despite claiming that ISIS is defeated;"
And embarrasses the Pentagon by speaking too much truth about it all being about oil."

Haha! That was all kabuki.
It couldn't have been about oil. The amount is small, maybe just enough for Syrian domestic consumption.
The true reason is to blockade the link (railroad, highway) which Iran want to build with the Mediterranean Sea. And behind that, there is the Chinese OBOR.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 10 2020 0:35 utc | 178

"Why A Biden Presidency Will Disappoint Progressive Democrats."

One needn't wait for 20 Jan.

Change the headline to "Why A Biden Candidacy and Campaign Will Disappoint Progressive Democrats"

Posted by: SteveLaudig | Sep 10 2020 1:07 utc | 179

Sam F | Sep 9 2020 16:21 utc | 139

"I question the term "liberal interventionists" as the interventionists rarely have good intentions but merely pretenses."

That sounds like a non sequitur. Liberals never have good intentions, but only pretenses. That's one of the core things that distinguishes them from other groupings.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 10 2020 1:31 utc | 180

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 10 2020 0:35 utc | 177

"The true reason is to blockade the link (railroad, highway) which Iran want to build with the Mediterranean Sea. And behind that, there is the Chinese OBOR."

And behind that is plain old spite, vindictiveness (major Trump characteristic, no? Biden too, yes?) and desire to punish anyone who ever crossed them whenever they can. For example, one of the main reasons to keep punishing Syria is to punish Assad for not having lost the war yet. Syria will never be forgiven now for surviving our attack.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 10 2020 1:33 utc | 181

@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 21:36 utc | 170

"Every time Trump mouths the words "China Virus", he is blaming China."

You moved the goal posts, like a ton.

Originally you had said:

- unjustifiably accuses China of an act of war (deliberately spreading coronavirus);

Posted by: librul | Sep 10 2020 2:43 utc | 182

Many of you just don't get it. It doesn't matter whether Biden will disappoint...The Dems could have chosen Atilla the Hun, Daffy Duck or Porky Pig. Getting rid of Trump is all that EVERYONE sees. Nothing and no one matters as much as that. That goal is galvanizing sides that can't stand each other's politics on any other day.

*********
Now let me say this again: Trump was riding a wave of prosperity that started with the previous administration. He had very little to do with his good fortune. However he bragged and bragged about what a genius he is to have created the best economy in the history of mankind. Then along came Covid to show the world what a lying fraud he is. He couldn't believe it! He wouldn't believe it or accept that a virus had dared to appear to destroy the greatest achievement of his life. So what did he do to try to stop this from happening? Knowing full well how deadly this virus is and not a normal flu, he encouraged states, people and business to carry on as usual, open early and scoffed at mask wearing and social distancing holding several events to encourage others to follow suit and today there are over 195,000 people dead and 6.5 million got infected.

You can't live down that level of cowardice, betrayal and irresponsibility, and that's why it doesn't matter WHO brings him down. Only the mission matters and that's the catalyst that will bring together the far Left, the Center and many on the Right.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 10 2020 3:06 utc | 183

@Posted by: Circe | Sep 10 2020 3:06 utc | 182

errm...no

The actions taken by "Washington" collectively were totally politicized and DisUnity was the watchword.

Divisiveness and Discord and Democrat all begin with D.

Washington the Swamp is the problem.

Choose your poison when you vote.

Posted by: librul | Sep 10 2020 3:58 utc | 184

Many of you just don't get it. It doesn't matter whether Biden will disappoint...The Dems could have chosen Atilla the Hun, Daffy Duck or Porky Pig. Getting rid of Trump is all that EVERYONE sees. Nothing and no one matters as much as that. [details how bad Trump is]
*********
Posted by: Circe | Sep 10 2020 3:06 utc | 182

EVERYBODY is ca. 52% in key states, and it is predicated of Biden hurting himself less that Trump when he opens his mouth not in a short videos with many takes. Latching to personal imperfection like brain in a certain stage of atrophy is Trump most reliable talent. In the case of Biden, hard to point any reliable talents. The bottom like is that by finding a less crappy candidate, which could only be Sanders (Warren looks too wanky, Klobuchar to bland, and Bootie [hard to remember] was hard to remember.

I have some aversion to lengthy articles describing politics in a bland way, but I noticed a paragraph that Biden has a group of advisers that sticked with him for decades, all as "white, male and aged" as he is. Personally, I am more for quality than diversity, but just the fact that decades came and went, and Biden is a dinosaur who somehow overlooked extinction event by sitting it out in a bunker together with his advisors is not encouraging.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 10 2020 4:13 utc | 185

librul @Sep10 2:43 #181

After China raised questions about a possible US origin of the virus, Trump started to use "China Virus". Then the intelligence agencies said that they couldn't say that China had developed the virus. Trump later accused China of deliberately spreading the virus then he hedge on that (after Chinese and media complained IIRC).

But he continues to use "China Virus".

It's a tactic of a social media bully. Throw aspersions and follow up with hints that reinforce those aspersions.

He plays such games a lot. Examples include giving his opponents deprecating nicknames ("Low energy" Bush; "Rocket Man" in North Korea; "Sleepy-eyed" Chuck Todd at NBC, etc.) and imploring Wikileaks in 2016 to "release the emails!" - implicitly pegging them as anti-US/working with US enemies.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 5:41 utc | 186

Trump suggests China let virus spread on purpose

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 5:52 utc | 187

With a Circe or Biden presidency nuclear bombs would fall without doubt on European countries,from the russians of course,but triggered by those funny little merkan tactical nukes you hear so little about in MSM.

Posted by: willie | Sep 10 2020 11:20 utc | 188

Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 10 2020 0:30 utc | 177

"All I'm looking for is for a better response to Covid."

You mean a complete end to the terror-lockdown offensive, end to the propaganda for the brain-dead, end to all superstitious rituals and all the interventionist insanity and everyone getting on with prior normal life like with the regular flu?

If a party/candidate offered to drive that, I wouldn't just vote for them, I'd volunteer for the campaign.

Unfortunately Trump's been pulling a Corbyn on that, incapable of taking a stance one way or the other like Corbyn on Brexit. That's the one thing that could possibly sink Trump, he's lukewarm on the only thing that matters for the election.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 10 2020 11:47 utc | 189

With Biden & Harris every single day will be filled with MSM news about how awesome they are, how correct the decisions are, and how amazing it is to have such a glorious, benign, and intelligent leadership.

How many people can vote for that?

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 10 2020 12:28 utc | 190

@189 Russ(ian bot)

Your Trump is done. You spewed poison against Sanders and trashed him obsessively like you were being paid by the letter, and now Biden will cakewalk over your mango-d. Nice karma.

Eat it! You gaaat ZERO upstairs!

Posted by: Circe | Sep 10 2020 12:46 utc | 191

Donald Hitler:

Trump confirms he downplayed the pandemic in the name of the economy

Posted by: vk | Sep 10 2020 12:56 utc | 192

circe 191

He's your Trump, not mine. I've never once voted for your vile Trump-spewing system, whereas you vote for it and shill for it obsessively.

You voted for Trump in 2016, and you're going to vote for him again.

https://attempter.wordpress.com/2017/03/18/the-vote-was-unanimous-for-trump/

And everyone here knows what lying vermin you are. We pegged it - all your Sandershilling was just Dembot shilling from day one, and that you'd soon be back shilling for the hard-core right-wing imperialist Wall Street-fellating corporate-mongering police-statist war criminal rapist Biden. And what do you know, here you are.

Perfectly in keeping with the whole Sanders sheep-dogging scam.

All those qualities of the criminal organization you worship proves what a bottom-feeding piece of filth you are.

As for me, I want none of it.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 10 2020 13:04 utc | 193

Right now the media are marinating the Trump goose with a parade of victims of Covid who lost loved ones that died horribly and alone, many of whom could have been spared had Trump not always played it down.

Trump's lucky he can't be sued or he'd be left only with the shirt on his back. That would clean him out. No more mansions! Too bad.

Nonetheless, this just might be the beginning of a spectacular Trump downfall. There's probably more in store Covid-unrelated. It'll be so well deserved, and a long time coming. I'll buy tickets for that! Maybe orange really is his color. 😆

Posted by: Circe | Sep 10 2020 13:12 utc | 194

Circe @183: "Getting rid of Trump is all that EVERYONE sees. Nothing and no one matters as much as that."

It is fascinating how those suffering from "Trump Derangement Syndrome" imagine that everyone else has the same mental disorder that they do. Their obsessive fixation with Trump seems normal and reasonable in their damaged minds, so to them it seems abnormal to not obsess over Trump and consider him the personification of the devil.

"But it's Truuuump!! Aaagh! Don't you see?!?!? Do I have to write in ALL CAPS to get you to understand??!?! He's eeevil! The ultimate evil! He wants to grab women by the pussy! Only the most evil of people would ever EVER touch a woman's pussy! And he thinks it is funny that people with mountain panda as their gender identity want their own public restrooms! That's brutal MICROAGGRESSION! Microaggression, I tell you! And Trump thinks the threat of microaggression isn't even real! That's fascism!! Trump is so evil that he probably thinks XY chromosome women who have high testosterone and penises shouldn't be allowed to compete in sports against cisgender women! How can any person be more evil than that?!?!? And he thinks people who burn down other people's property should be arrested, even if they are Black! The man is a MONSTER!!!"

Well, pardon me if I don't join in your hysteria. Trump is proving to be a choir boy compared with the previous five presidents.

"Trump was riding a wave of prosperity that started with the previous administration."

This is just plain factually wrong. That claim requires profound ignorance of the circumstances of the vast majority of Americans. The poster is not only obviously not working class, but clearly doesn't even know any working class Americans at all. As well, the poster is obviously one of those unenlightened types whose understanding of economics goes no further than looking at stock indices: "Number go up. Good economy!"

If Trump were "riding a wave of prosperity" then his campaign slogan "Make America Great Again" would have found no resonance with any voters. It is incumbents who ride waves of prosperity, and the Dims were incumbent. The fact that the Dims got their asses handed to them in 2016 is evidence that there was no "wave of prosperity" for most Americans.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 10 2020 13:21 utc | 195

Karlof1 @161

Ta muchly on expanding my knowledge of TR (knew about his involvement in the war with Spain in Cuba, and about his Conservation efforts/program); didn't know that he was much more concerned about the welfare of the ordinary US citizen than his cousin, FDR.

Mind thee, I am fully aware that FDR's "concern" which led to the beloved programs was driven all but entirely by his deep sense of foreboding for Capitalism. Had to save the monstrosity (not as if FDR's family weren't beneficiaries after all). (And am fully aware that those beloved programs - Soc Sec and Medicare were, shall we say, limited to certain melanin level folks via the nifty exclusion of "Agricultural and Domestic workers" - overwhelmingly, in the South, of darker skin tones. How many of today's young are aware of this aspect of the "New Deal," and that the so-called "Dems" were heavily populated by southern white Reps and Senators?

And yes - all too true of the Blue Faces, whether of the so-called Progressive Sanders, Warren and I'd bet Cortez: war and the MIC equal no problem whatsoever. And none of them are anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist... Therefore, not (in my book, anyway) Left in any way, shape or form. (That so-called Green New Deal is highly dubious because it would seem, at fundament, to lead to everything, but everything in the natural world being given (by those corporate-capitalists) a price tag and their "worthiness" for continuing their existence being judged on that price...

Posted by: Anne | Sep 10 2020 13:48 utc | 196

@189 Russ

Unfortunately Trump's been pulling a Corbyn on that, incapable of taking a stance one way or the other like Corbyn on Brexit. That's the one thing that could possibly sink Trump, he's lukewarm on the only thing that matters for the election.

Why, unfortunately??? And why should you care about what matters for Trump to win the election???

As for me, I want none of it. -Say whuut?

You're so transparent! And cool your jets Mister with your loser trash talk. You're at minus ZERO now and sinking further, if that's even possible.

@195 William Gruff

All the Russia bots are in Meltdown Mode. When the dustbin of history comes for their Trump manbaby in November, their heads are going to expl🤯de. I'll make sure I'm in the front row for those fireworks!

Posted by: Circe | Sep 10 2020 13:52 utc | 197

Circe @194

"Right now the media are marinating the Trump goose with a parade of victims of Covid who lost loved ones that died horribly and alone, many of whom could have been spared had Trump not always played it down."

There is in fact a very strong case to be made that Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York and Democratic party member, is directly responsible for a large number of those CoVid deaths.

Don't let Cuomo hide from his coronavirus nursing-home disaster

Posted by: Triden | Sep 10 2020 14:24 utc | 198

A "Color" revolution in the USA by the left?

What, 50K pink pussy hats in the street of every big city? Some lawyers? Where are the left soccer hooligans, the left militias, the well armed street gangs? Or the union militias of Chile, the peoples militia like Venezuela? 500 Antifa and half are INTELPRO plants.

That one guy from Portland Antifa had been shot in the arm in July by Patriot Prayer militia, he was probably aiming for the Prayer guy's balls and hit him in the chest. Like a revenge shooting.

The 10s of thousands of Trumpian militia, Boogaloo, 2nd Amendment, 3%ers and the sheriffs, cops that cooperate and back them with a long history of killing leftys,unionists,lynching #ADOS, attacking muslims, OK Fed building bombing, Klan, that is the street muscle for a Color Rev, they have the muscle, equipment, history and can turn out 50K for an airport touch n go by Trump at any time...

Read the USA like it is.

Posted by: Johann Leg | Sep 10 2020 15:05 utc | 199

@ 198 Triden

The lockdowns Circe and so many others rapturously support and propagandize for were both the vehicle for the deliberate mass murder (euthanasia) of the inmates of nursing homes and hospital wards, but they've been taking special pleasure in cutting their victims off from contact with loved ones, companion animals. In that way it's not just Nazi-style mass murder but has elements of Nazi-style sadism as well.

To add insult to injury, the government-media also astroturfed this support-the-troops style cult of "health care heroes", i.e. the very Typhoid Marys who have been the main conduit of the virus into these facilities which should have been protected, but which every lockdown program has made a special deliberate point of NOT protecting.

As for the likes of Circe, they're propagandists for and therefore participants in mass murder who need to be held fully accountable.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 10 2020 15:07 utc | 200

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