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September 16, 2020

Open Thread 2020-74

News & views ...

Posted by b on September 16, 2020 at 17:47 UTC | Permalink

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dan of steele @102--

Thanks for your vote of confidence. Here's what I was reading then composing over the last 90 minutes or so.

I've finished reading the two interview transcripts with FM Lavrov and read about the most recent lunatic ravings by Trump about the real nature of actual Outlaw US Empire history. I've stayed informed about what's being done to Julian Assange, the latest provocations aimed at China now involving Taiwan, and assorted other illegal actions by the Outlaw US Empire and its officials. IMO, Lavrov came very close to saying the West is completely unhinged if it thinks it can continue to treat Russia, China, and numerous other nations in the manner it does--with total contempt, much as the Nazis did in their time. I see the West as a collective of toddlers still wrapped in diapers digging out their feces and flinging them at those they can't get their way with. I see the leaders of China and Russia exerting great efforts to defeat the huge urge to punish the toddlers for their insolence and nonstop prevarications. Here's the relevant part of the RTV1 interview:

"Question: How would you describe this policy of confrontation? When did it start (I mean during your term of office)? It’s simply so stable at the moment that there seems no chance that something might change in the future.

"Sergey Lavrov: President of Russia Vladimir Putin has repeatedly spoken on this topic. I think that the onset of this policy, this era of constant pressure on Russia began with the end of a period that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union, a time when the West believed it had Russia there in its pocket – it ended, full stop. Unfortunately, the West does not seem to be able to wrap its head around this, to accept that there is no alternative to Russia’s independent actions, both domestically and on the international arena. This is why, unfortunately, this agony continues by inertia.

"Having bad ties with any country have never given us any pleasure. We do not like making such statements in which we sharply criticise the position of the West. We always try to find compromises, but there are situations where it is hard not to come face to face with one another directly or to avoid frank assessments of what our Western friends are up to.

"I have read what our respected political scientists write who are well known in the West. And I can say this idea is starting to surface ever stronger and more often – it is time we stop measuring our actions with the yardsticks that the West offers us and to stop trying to please the West at all costs. These are very serious people and they are making a serious point. The fact that the West is prodding us to this way of thinking, willingly or unwillingly, is obvious to me. Most likely, this is being done involuntarily. But it is a big mistake to think that Russia will play by Western rules in any case – as big a mistake as like approaching China with the same yardstick." [My Emphasis]

Another way of looking at the situation: I see a group of immature thugs who fancy themselves as bullies since that's the behavior they've employed to get what they want continually pushing Russia and China to betray their people and interests for the bullies to gain pleasure and they've about reached the end of their rope and civilized patience where they're preparing to give the bullies a massive wallop to put them in their places that's likely to break some teeth and bloody some noses wherein they all begin to cry like the infantile imbeciles they are while looking around for some way to respond with even more violence since that's the only way bullies can behave. The problem for them is Russia and China have anticipated such a response and wrest the weapons out of the bullies hands and again slap them upside the face while demanding they grow up and learn what it means to be civilized. The most immature and leader of the bullies, the Outlaw US Empire, takes great umbrage since it thinks itself exceptional and superior to all beings and takes it upon itself to defend the bullies honor and turns to attack Russia and China with all its might despite its being a drowning nation, an action Russia and China have also anticipated with the most dire of consequences for the dying Empire and its bully allies--a Nuclear War that's preempted by the defense doctrine and weapons of Russia and China. Yes, millions die in the Bully nations, but overall humanity is somehow saved.

That's my dystopic vision for the future if those behind Trump/Biden continue their reviling behavior, which at its most basic differs little from Hitler's.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 18 2020 22:41 utc | 101

Musing about society from a sociological, anthropological, historical, and political-economic viewpoint--the four areas I majored in while at university.

What constitutes the foundation for a functional community/society?

Enough resources and knowledge equitably distributed satisfying the basic needs of its members and thus avoiding want and its byproducts: strife/angst/envy.

But is that enough? What about the non-material?

There must be social solidarity within the community about the management of the resource base and how it's to be maintained such that the primary goal can be continual.

What about the problem of genetic inbreeding; how will that be solved?

Peaceful interactions with other communities must occur and "new blood" invited to join.

What directions should aspirations take?

The accumulation of knowledge since the accumulation of things is essentially hoarding which deprives others of resources they might require with the attendant negative results noted above.


Utopian? Perhaps. Some societies actually functioned in the above manner, and a very few still do. The larger world unfortunately is a dysfunctional mess thanks to the Zero-sum philosophy. It seems humanity lacks wisdom, or perhaps is kept from gaining the wisdom it needs to prevail against its own excesses and mistaken notions about what's correct and morally proper.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 19 2020 0:24 utc | 102

@dos #102: agree

Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Sep 19 2020 0:25 utc | 103


Like dos and the good Dr, I also read what you write. But only comment on it when I have something to add.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 19 2020 0:43 utc | 104

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg passes.

Posted by: suzan | Sep 19 2020 2:54 utc | 105

@ suzan | Sep 19 2020 2:54 utc | 107 with the announcement link of the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Thanks for that even though it is sad news.

Another political distraction during the (s)election process...actually I think it may get more Dems out to vote.

What are the odds that the R's fill the spot before the end of this presidential term?

@ karlof1 with all the links and feeling lonely....I just finished slicing up 4+ trays of cherry tomatoes for dehydrating and had to get out for a walk today after being penned up for a week and a half....

I think the only response that China/Russia have is to continue slicing the responses thinner and thinner until the West has no more room to maneuver and it collapses....I think we may be close.

Trump has signed an executive order saying US folks can't download the WeChat and TikTok apps after Sunday for WeChat and TikTok depends on negotiations....I expect the sign up for WeChat to skyrocket between now and through Sunday...what a circus

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 19 2020 3:40 utc | 106

Below is a link to Catlin Johnstone's take on the death of RBG

I agree with it and her posting explains what will happen during these coming weeks clearly, IMO.

Here at MoA, we can expect Circe to go back to more caps until b bans them.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 19 2020 5:24 utc | 107

The accumulation of knowledge since the accumulation of things is essentially hoarding

A true enlightment POV. But the main war by the powers that be, although undeclared unlike the stupid wars against tactics or drugs, is the war against knowledge, with the media as its best ally.

Seе if you can get in english the briefing fron Rudskoy, he lays all responsability for possible consecuences of the tense situation in the Black and Baltic seas to the outlaw US empire and its NATO allies.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 19 2020 10:32 utc | 108

The Navalny FUBAR.

I caught DW Conflict Zone last night. The extraordinarily attractive BBC-ish bitch, Sarah Kelly, was trying to bully German Deputy FM Niels Annen into admitting that Germany had little choice but to dump NordStream 2 to "punish Russia." But Niels wasn't buying that nonsense. He pointed out that punishing Russia by doing something which would hurt Germany more than Russia is not smart policy. He also pointed out that AmeriKKKa buys oil from Russia (something I didn't know) and if they think they can tell Germany not to buy Russian gas they're wrong.

I feel a bit sorry for Mrs Merkel, but she's old enough to know that if you hang out with Yankee dogs, you're gonna get fleas...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 19 2020 18:03 utc | 109

| This weekend saw the loss of two voices the U.S. could ill afford to lose: Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Steven F. Cohen; their like cannot be found on the nation's horizon. Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg gave that court a precarious balance not provided by rabid ideologues and is unlikely to be replaced. Steven Cohen provided a scholarly and balanced perspective on Russia, its history and developments in the modern world and a valuable insight into Russian perspectives on world affairs, without ideological contamination, a rare accomplishment given Cohen's native country. Both should be mourned for the loss they represent and celebrated for their high accomplishments. Both achieved balance in their fields against the flow of social conformity, the value of which will become highly prized as events unfold.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Sep 19 2020 18:50 utc | 110

Both achieved balance in their fields against the flow of social conformity, the value of which will become highly prized as events unfold.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Sep 19 2020 18:50 utc | 110

Indeed. The worst of it is there are no peers in the wings to take their place...
I particularly enjoyed Cohen's, learned, calm, and reasoned voice when discussing Russia and her culture.
A huge loss to be sure...

Posted by: V | Sep 20 2020 0:03 utc | 111

New York Times says China sends warning and ends the piece by referencing the "hawkish" Global Times.

This spin by minions of Cabal didn't go down well in South China Sea with the hawkish minions of Cabal with Chinese Characteristics. So out they came out with it's not a warning. it's a rehearsal for takeover.

Posted by: conspiracy-theory | Sep 20 2020 2:17 utc | 112

I am kinda following the crazy TikTok story and now seemingly Trump has approved the deal but included a requirement that TikTok parent company contribute $5 billion dollars to an "educational" fund to develop and teach Trump's version of American history.

If it weren't for the sheer illegality of what Trump is doing it might be entertaining to find out what Trump's history reads like......winning, winning, winning and maybe some pussy grabbing.

Sigh....sometimes it is painful to watch

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 20 2020 4:05 utc | 113

@ V | Sep 20 2020 0:03 utc | 111

Thanks for the reply. Although both died from their cancers, both their statures illuminated raging public cancers ravaging the nation. One measured the failure of public education to produce competent ethical scholarship and what that implies, the other the yardstick of the fatal decline in the country's judicial/legal system to provide justice for any (some observations have even double and triple millionaires can no longer afford to access court for redress - one needs an annual income of that magnitude apparently). Once those systems cease to function adequately and the ability to self correct disappears, there is only a single ultimate outcome - the fall of empire in this case. Invest in popcorn, the circus is about to start final acts.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Sep 20 2020 9:27 utc | 114

The US trying to bluster its way into "these reimposed UN sanctions" when they are just US unilateral actions, with more to follow. This is pushing its power over the vassals to its limits and beyond methinks.


Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 20 2020 10:05 utc | 115

Well, here it is the link to the MI6...Acording to Daniel Estulin, this fellow from the London School of Economics, who resdies most time in London is the main suspect of posioning Navalny...Indeed it looks like that...She definitely does not have neither the face nor definitely the eyes of passing her most hours of her life reading thousands of documents seraching for corruption in Russia...That face and eyes look quite fresh and not like those acustomed to long time reading....

Interview by BBC with María Pevchikh, the person who was the one who organized the search in the hotel room where Navalny stayed in Tomsk and the only one who traveled in the special flight to Germany along with Navalny and his wife...

She asures they use to track flights where Navalny is travelling through an employee of the FBK...Recall that just when the flight was about to land in Omsk there was a bomb that to avoid the landing....Any judge would find the issue quite suspicious...This element is to the Navalny case like the other one who had lunch at that pub with Sergei and Juliya Skripal...

Here the Russian, Translate with a translator....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Sep 20 2020 10:10 utc | 116

Formerly T-Bear

Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg gave that court a precarious balance not provided by rabid ideologues and is unlikely to be replaced

Ginsberg not a "rabid ideologue"? Feminism, LGBT and other identity politics where her game.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 20 2020 10:17 utc | 117

@ Zanon | Sep 20 2020 10:17 utc | 117

What part of "Feminism, LGBT and other identity politics …" is illegal, immoral or fattening? That is your opinion. End of discussion.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Sep 20 2020 13:12 utc | 118

Formerly T-Bear

I wouldnt call it anything of that, I would say that the identity politics crowd is more of a cult.

My main argument though was that she was indeed a (leftwing) ideologue just like Trump want a more rightwing ideologue in her place now.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 20 2020 13:26 utc | 119

Stephen Cohen and now Andre Vitchek, gone from us. Vitchek was not that old, 57. He died in Turkey this morning. Argh. Why don't some of the criminals suddenly leave us?

Posted by: suzan | Sep 22 2020 19:31 utc | 120


Udo Ulfkotte was 56 when he died or, as some allege, was murdered. Read “Udo Ulfkotte: Was a Nationalist Journalist Murdered in Germany?” by Ciaran Brennan for details.

Posted by: S | Sep 22 2020 20:32 utc | 121

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