Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 03, 2020

Open Thread 2020-70

News & views ...

Posted by b on September 3, 2020 at 12:27 UTC | Permalink

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Right on schedule! >> "The federal government has told states to prepare for a coronavirus vaccine to be ready to distribute by Nov. 1."

Posted by: Maracatu | Sep 3 2020 12:32 utc | 1

Posted by: Maracatu | Sep 3 2020 12:32 utc | 1

I'm sure it wasn't dome on purpose;-) I'm sure it will be sugar water but enough to win the election:-(

Posted by: jo6pac | Sep 3 2020 13:06 utc | 2

has anyone solved this puzzle was it was it not

What about Khassoggi who has not been following that issue?

What about our whistle-blower in British Jail.

the governed Americans feel the governors at the USA have failed America.. the elections amount to little more than divide and conquer sessions, and election results produce no changes. each voting citizen is allowed by to vote for candidates seeking 1 of 3 positions
senator position 1 senator position 2 and
Member of house position 3 <= No vote for president or vice president counts.

why bother to vote.. ?

Posted by: snake | Sep 3 2020 13:28 utc | 4

Now That we have an open thread I wanted to pick up on a comment I made yesterday in response to @Karloff on the Navalny thread.

"There is bipartisan US support to stop the pipeline and some very harsh anti-Germany rhetoric from Trump" (taken from a DW piece I linked to)

I wanted to ask people's opinions as to why the US would want to kill NS II - it is much more than just money of course and the price could be the significant worsening of EU/ US relations.

(I know I should pay more attention to US politics but I really value my sanity ...)

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 13:29 utc | 5

There's an Atlanticist faction in the German capitalist class:

Merkel pressured to end Nord Stream 2 support after Navalny poisoning

Angela Merkel is under growing domestic pressure to end her support for the joint German-Russian Nord Stream 2 [...] The German Green party [...] Norbert Röttgen, chairman of the Bundestag’s committee on foreign affairs and a candidate for the CDU leadership [...] The tabloid newspaper Bild [...] Not just the US, but also states in eastern Europe and the Baltics


Though set into motion by Merkel’s centre-left predecessor shortly before the start of her tenure, the construction project is of vital economic importance for the country because Germany is likely to need more imported gas in the future – and particularly for the chancellor’s own constituency in the north-eastern state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

All the evidence points to the direction the German elite is a "Two-headed Eagle": one Atlanticist head and one Prussian head. Those heads beak each other frequently - even more so since the destruction and absorption of the DDR.

Modern Germany is not a monolith, that's for sure.


It's tough to be put into the "Stalinist" camp after decades and decades serving as the fifth wheel of liberalism (i.e. being Trotskyists):

The New York Times slanders left-wing opposition to Biden as “Russian propaganda”

In that context, it is highly significant that the report by Graphika, the security consultant for Facebook, makes several mentions of the World Socialist Web Site, pointing out that many of the articles published by Peacedata were actually reposted from the WSWS.

It must be heartbreaking to love someone for so long and not to have that love reciprocated...


President Xi Jinping: China to work with Russia to safeguard WWII results

Someone has to protect the truth. In the early 21st Century, it's Russia and China.


America fights to keep its skeletons in its closet:

‘Unacceptable’ interference: International Criminal Court objects to US sanctions prompted by war crimes investigation

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Geneva Convention are only valid when they serve America's national interests.


Two relaxing op-eds to pass the day:

Xinjiang: Evil genocide, blue skies & Santa Claus

America's epic fail

Joke of the week:

WaPo EDITORIAL: It’s no wonder Putin thinks he can get away with poisoning his adversaries

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 13:31 utc | 6

Help me flesh out my naive understanding of the world:

1) Return on capital is the underlying rule
2) It's all organized crime with senior partners and junior partners. Some of us work on the clean side of the house, but it's all dirty.
3) Global senior capital controls all sovereigns
4) There is a constant turf war among capital owners and that's all that really matters...ideologies, politics, religion, etc are illusions to manipulate the masses
5) Liberals and Conservatives are just good cop bad cop roles to manipulate the masses...they ultimately answer to the same senior capital

Obviously the illusions are wearing off and there's capital partner battles taking place. Who are the participants (senior capital and junior capital partners and their fronts (sovereign, political, corporate, etc))?

Posted by: davenitup | Sep 3 2020 13:36 utc | 7

AtaBrit @Sep3 13:29 #5

I wanted to ask people's opinions as to why the US would want to kill NS II - it is much more than just money of course and the price could be the significant worsening of EU/ US relations.

It seems to me that the Empire wants to cut all economic ties to the opposition. A sort of attrition.

You assume too much when you believe that there would be a "significant worsening" of EU/US relations. USA wants to use European defense funds to subsidize the LNG. So German and other European consumers would not see too much of a rise in energy prices. Thus, no increase in anger from Europeans that might make the comprador elite uncomfortable.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 3 2020 13:47 utc | 8

@7 davenitup

Great observation and question! One more bit. If you attempt to report on said truths, you are sent to prison to rot in a cell, like Julian Assange. His show trial starts Monday. See Consortium News.

Posted by: Michael | Sep 3 2020 13:48 utc | 9

@ Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 13:29 utc | 5

The reason the USA is using the economic sanctions against its new enemies is simple: because it worked against the USSR.

But also because we live in a world of nukes. A hot war in very large scale is much more risky now than in 1942.

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 13:50 utc | 10

"Modern Germany is not a monolith, that's for sure."
Absolutely. I am familiar with the objections in Europe to NS II, but they have all but been silenced except a couple of legal issues.

Its the US psyche behind trying to destroy the relationship that I don't get - it will surely make more imminent the Euro Asian Alliance and could hurt both the US and EU.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 13:53 utc | 11

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 13:31 utc | 6

EU foreign minister of sorts, Borrell, to be questioned by EU parliament concerning his interference in a case brought before the Argentinian Justice, where a former Spanish interior minister is going to declare for crimes against humanity committed under his watch back in the late 70´s after the dictator’s death. The same clan, the same bipartisanship, since Borrell was supposed to be a “socialist”. He claims the lauding letter presented to the judge by the accused is just the regular consular help afforded to any Spanish citizen, while the Spanish citizens that brought the case to Argentine -since they were continuosly ignored in Spain- were blocked back in 2013 to declare by video conference, one assumes they were so old that they could not fly to Argentine. Those are the phony characters that from their well paid Brussels jobs circle the globe lecturing about morality and democracy to all heathens.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 3 2020 14:04 utc | 12

@Jackrabbit | 8
Cheers. Will have a look to see how plausible the use of US LNG is in the long term - it would definitely require considerable subsidising and would it not kill off EU plans for taking more responsibility for its own defense?

@vk | 10
Thanks. EU is not USSR and the world is not that of the cold war. But it would make sense if that is their thinking.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 14:07 utc | 13

Has anyone considered that this drive for more mail in voting could backfire on Democrats? Is it possible that people will vote for Trump in secret, away from even secure polling places? And that they are horrified by the rise in violence while cowering in isolation due to Covid?

I wonder.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 3 2020 14:21 utc | 14

India launched a pre-planned attack on China in the border standoff area on Saturday night to take a position within China's perception of the Line of Actual Control. Official Indian briefing claims no casualties or even contact but one Indian military analyst says there were combat casualties on both sides. India deployed its Special Frontier Force, a special operations unit manned by Tibetans under the administration of Research & Analysis Wing, the Indian external spy agency.

Indian government and media have constructed a timeline claiming India reacted to a provocative move by China on Saturday night and quickly conducted the operation to seize the position. However, Manoj Joshi points out that obviously given the nature of the unit used it was a pre-planned operation. The Chinese movement of troops at midnight that has been labeled as the provocative pretext was actually the reaction to India's operation.

According to Ajai Shukla the operation killed a Tibetan company commander and resulted in Chinese casualties.

The SFF is organized for sabotage and insurgency in Tibet. India is sending a message threatening China with insurgency. An insurgency in Tibet taking off is far fetched. What is more readily apparent is India's exposure now to retaliation. The insurgencies of Northeast India have dropped by 90% in intensity but are still active in Nagaland and Manipur. China now will likely support those insurgencies. Worse for India, the Northeast insurgents also have relations with Naxalites who are active in over 100 districts of India. Any arms transferred to NE rebels could end up in their hands too.

It's a mystery why India does not announce it took military action in a straightforward manner. If it were Pakistan there would be no hesitation to announce a military action. But India has portrayed itself as the victim of Chinese aggression. It even banned 100+ Chinese apps earlier in the week and cited recent Chinese aggression as the reason. For India to start a conflict with China is a very bad idea but the self-deception is an additional bad idea. India should be clear it is an escalating a conflict and openly debate the sanity of this decision.

Posted by: pouring | Sep 3 2020 14:27 utc | 15

It is official US military policy, the last time I looked, to renovate the gigantic US nuclear arsenal, with a heavy emphasis on tactical nukes, for actual use. The goal is to be ready for a major war with an opponent who can really fight back. The march to the borders of Russia is a decades long policy, not in the least reversed by Trump. The belief is that essentially China and Russia will surrender, after regime change if need be, and the actual costs of a general war can be avoided. But then, these people believe capitalism really works.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2020 14:31 utc | 16

killwallstreet @3

Why can't we have the choice of Nina Turner for President?

Oh yeah, capitalist elites wouldn't like that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 3 2020 14:39 utc | 17

Vis a vis the German "Green" Party and their decrying of Nordstream 2 (not sure if they were against before this latest anti-Russian scam)...How can they with ANY conscience consider themselves even remotely ecologically, environmentally concerned if they are against piped natural gas and FOR shipped Fracked natural gas.... How can they call themselves "Green"? Well, perhaps they think their constituents are "green."

Shipping gas - including NON fracked - increases CO2 in the atmosphere, and we're not talking a few miles distance, either, between Germany and the USA (or the Middle East if its US stolen Syrian/Iraqi gas). Isn't CO2 BAD?

Fracked gas is BAD for the local ecosystem whence it comes - water, ground fractures, methane expression (and Methane is much worse than CO2)...

Then - given the growing distemper of the storms, hurricanes (Atlantic) and so on - the probability of ships loaded with nat gas - exploding? thrown against some reef or other, near landfall and causing serious problems...

Some fucking "Green" party...

Posted by: AnneR | Sep 3 2020 14:40 utc | 18

@ daveinup # 7 who wrote
Help me flesh out my naive understanding of the world:

I think you did a fairly good job on describing the power structure of the West but it gets complicated in countries like Russia and then there is China sovereign government which is not yet, to my knowledge, owned by Western global senior capital.

Western global senior capital is doing two things that I see. They are setting up to cull the herd at the top while decimating the bottom and they are consolidating power over the countries they can as the example of public finance based society grows in global awareness.

I continue to posit that we are in a civilization war about the Western way of global private capital controlling all or not. People call the alternative to centuries of global private finance rule multi-polarity but it is just fog over the central issue of public/private finance in the social contract and form of governance.

How the social evolution plays out with all the debt by countries and personal debt mixed in with casino bets by derivatives is way over my pay grade. That said, I am glad to see humanity coming to a point of cultural inflection where there is the opportunity for our species growth beyond the dystopian mess it currently is in.

I am happy to be reading more that are starting to realize the structural effects of global private finance and the way things could be like in China if finance was a core sovereign utility.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 3 2020 14:44 utc | 19

I do know not much about the "Green Party" in the USA,but what I know for sure about so called green parties in the Netherlands,Germany,France is that theyalways take the Washington line when the parliamentary vote comes to supporting american wars abroad.I remember Femke Halsema,minister in 2003 I think proclaiming we have to send troops to Afghanistan,in order to send the little girls to school without head veils.Now she is the mayor of Amsterdam.Bombing Yugoslavia ,Iraq,Libya ,Afganistan with depleted uranium has never been a problem to those "greens"In the same time they are always pro-LGBT,samesex marriageetc.,because they think they represent the average well-earning citizen in need of some virtue-signalled conscience.

Posted by: willie | Sep 3 2020 14:49 utc | 20

@ Posted by: davenitup | Sep 3 2020 13:36 utc | 7; @ Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 3 2020 14:44 utc | 19

The illusion comes from the fact that the bourgeoisie is the first dominant class in human history whose power doesn't emanate from monopoly of violence, but from complete ownership of nature (means of production). It's method of domination, therefore, is through deprivation, not through extortion.

As a result, the bourgeoisie cannot do nothing on its own. Rather, it has to hire everything it needs. This applies to literally everything: violence itself (Armed Forces are working class, as they fight for a wage and they have a career), politics (wages, career) and ideology (middle class; academia; "experts"). From this comes the illusion of an egalitarian - and, indeed, even a "neutral" or natural - society (illusion of freedom).

All the dominant classes aimed divine status; the bourgeoisie is the first one to have achieved it de facto, as they fused themselves with nature, with natural resources (both human and earthly).

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 14:54 utc | 21

How can they with ANY conscience consider themselves even remotely ecologically, environmentally concerned if they are against piped natural gas and FOR shipped Fracked natural gas.... How can they call themselves "Green"? Well, perhaps they think their constituents are "green."

Posted by: AnneR | Sep 3 2020 14:40 utc | 18


Well war is most likely THE single most environmentally destructive human activity possible, yet the German Green party continued to call themselves "Green" after Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister in Schroeder's "Red/Green Coalition" at the time, went all-in on supporting the Iraq war.

So, after settling that with their consciences, I doubt they'll have any dissonance problems continuing to call themselves "Green" while supporting fracking.

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 3 2020 14:56 utc | 22

James @ 106 on preveous post.
Very interesting observation you made, regarding denial of access to twitter accounts.
This subject warrants much discussion, I had noticed the same thing. Also the same on searches at blogs / political and news sites.
Others experiences would be interesting.
Topic —- present pre election internet censorship !

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 3 2020 15:00 utc | 23

Merkel Reiterates That Berlin's Reaction to Navalny Case 'Depends on Russia'

Merkel is using here the good old logical trap of "illusion of free will". She's transforming a German problem into a Russian problem, thus forcing Russia to shoulder the onus a problem that isn't theirs.

Assume Russia accepts the "blame". They then investigate as if the crime really happened. The narrative from the West is ready: 1) the fact that Russia is investigating is evidence Navalny was poisoned. If the investigation turns out inconclusive, then they 2a) claim Putin poisoned Navalny. If it comes conclusively, they 2b) claim Putin used a scapegoat, therefore he poisoned Navalny.

Now, assume Russia keeps its position there's no crime to be investigated, as Navalny wasn't poisoned. Germany will then claim that 1) the fact that Russia refused to investigate - or, indeed, even recognize the existence of the crime - is evidence Navalny was poisoned. Therefore, they 2) claim Putin poisoned Navalny (as he's the only one powerful enough to block such investigations).

Notice, then, that no matter which decision Russia makes, the conclusion will be the same: that Putin poisoned Navalny.

In this scenario, the only correct move Russia can make is do what is right and stick with the facts. And that's what it is doing: the lab tests came out negative for poisoning, therefore Navalny wasn't poisoned, therefore there's no crime to be investigated, therefore Russia will not even consider Germany's threats. It is Germany's onus to prove the Russian lab tests are fraudulent, not Russia's. If that means the NS II will be cancelled, well, that's life - they wanted to cancel the whole thing from the beginning either way.

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 15:16 utc | 24

Bill and Hillary Clinton had a interview with American Urban Radio and Bill joked that Trump will be "stacking sandbags" in the Whitehouse during the inauguration. Looks like the Colour Revolution in the US is on, I wonder what they will call it, the Purple Revolution

Posted by: Kadath | Sep 3 2020 15:28 utc | 25

Last month, Chinese Coast Guards intercepted a speedboat bound for Taiwan and found 12 Hong Kong rioters who had violated their court bail. Now, we hear the price of passage paid to the smugglers was HK$500,000 ($64,514) per head, an enormous sum for many of the fugitives are students. So who is financing them? Since they are now in the custody of Mainland law enforcement, some may be more induced to sing.

Posted by: Jun | Sep 3 2020 15:28 utc | 26

Nord Stream 2 won't be canceled because of Navalnys poisining. There won't be any further sanctions beyond purely symbolic measures. Putin knows what he is doing and how far he can go.

In the long run, however, the situation looks very different. Russia did already in 2014 create what it wanted to prevent.

A European-Russian alliance, that some in Europe have already advocated, is now out of question. A European-Chinese alliance, in the other hand, remains on the table.

Posted by: m | Sep 3 2020 15:43 utc | 28

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 3 2020 14:56 utc | 22

The Social Democrats/Green Party coalition under Schröder/Fischer didn't support the Iraq War ("I am not convinced Mr.President"- J.Fischer). Yet, they supported the bombing of Ex-Yugoslavia/Serbia in order to "prevent" another Ausschwitz. Schröder later admitted in an interview with Die Zeit editor-in-chief Joffe that Germany commited war crimes against Serbia

Posted by: vato | Sep 3 2020 15:53 utc | 29

Posted by: vato | Sep 3 2020 15:53 utc | 29

You are completely correct and thank you for pointing out my silly error

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 3 2020 16:00 utc | 30

The lower ranks of the armed forces are not working class: If they go on strike, nobody goes broke. Moreover, they do not have the potential to actually do the work to keep economic life going because only a small specialized fraction actually know how. The officer corps as a whole is petty-bourgeois, shading to bourgeois at the highest levels, where retired generals and admirals become high executives, especially in arms industries. Even more, the officer corps is deliberately indoctrinated in backwards ideas, which rely upon the oldest kind of notions. For instance, officers are taught they are "gentlemen," that is, of a higher class than common society. The hierarchy of ranks is a powerful incentive to conformist thinking, as being different is rarely conducive to promotion. It is an open question whether the US military is not Republican. (This does not necessarily mean Trumpist, because Trump has said he would fire generals who couldn't get the job done, and actually fired his generals serving on staff. This kind of thing takes much of the luster from all the blank checks.)

Increasingly even the lower ranks of the volunteer army are being taught to conceive themselves as a separate, truly patriotic Christian caste. But this might be an artifact of Christian propaganda/wishful thinking?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 3 2020 16:23 utc | 31

@27 vk

Yes, sir. Trump's agenda is miles ahead of Biden's and far more progressive.

Not to mention the eviction moratorium he just extended that the MSM buried underneath its usual anti-Trump claptrap like he is responsible for the 180,000 deaths from covid.

Never mind the myriad politics that need to be extrapolated from such a claim, such as: states' rights to enact their own covid measures; the fact that the term "covid deaths" is, itself, a dubious proposition as with "flu deaths" when these are often counted when in fact pneumonia is the real culprit; or how the cdc and the dems were downplaying Covid at the start ("masks don't help" and "visit Chinatown instead of worrying about covid").

Trump can prove himself another FDR-type by continually bucking duopoly trends. Continue to bring home troops and put in place an infrastructure bill during his 2nd term.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 3 2020 16:30 utc | 32

What does the CIA have on Merkel?

Or is it the presence of US occupation troops that dictates policy?

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 3 2020 16:30 utc | 33

"I wanted to ask people's opinions as to why the US would want to kill NS II - it is much more than just money of course and the price could be the significant worsening of EU/ US relations."
It will be 'game over' for the current and last iteration of the British Empire if Germany throws in its lot with Eurasia, a move which makes enormous economic sense to the German Capitalists as well as being, in geo-strategical terms, both logical and a return to the main current of German history for more than a millenium.
As to the Greens-in Germany- they are political prostitutes, opportunist careerists (Joshka Fischer!) leading a constituency of naive nature lovers and ultra Malthusians longing for a strong man to lead them.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 3 2020 16:31 utc | 34

The Rising has an insider look at Amazon's union-busting tactics and it is horrifying.

Bezos, along with Big Tech, is trying to outflank organized labor at every turn.

If our phones and apps are the principal method of how workers might organize in the 21st century, we can be sure that Bezos and social media are collaborating to snuff it out at the mildest stink of organizing.

Don't use amazon, stay off social media, use cash, etc.

Posters here have made the argument that automation for amazon is only a few years away. Anyone who reflects on such a claim will find it wantin in that humans are far more efficient machines than robots which need massive investment and maintenance and is itself frought with the question will people rebel entirely against amazon for employing such tactics. The hate this practice generates will only increase. And if the fall of Sears in the states has taught us anything, it is this giant mercantilist corps come and go.

The fact that Bezos is doing his damndest to stop organizing is proof that he is worried about it. I don't buy that he is just biding his time till automation. He is being proacted because he knows his bluff is wearing thin.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 3 2020 16:39 utc | 35

@ Posted by: bevin | Sep 3 2020 16:31 utc | 34

In the article I linked mentions the Greens are against NS II because there's some kind of ecosystem (some kind of coral reef or a fish species, don't exactly what) in the bottom of the Baltic which the pipeline will disturb or something like that.

Like, ok, you, as a Green party, can make such argument - in fact you should.

However, that isn't the problem. The problem is the German Greens conditioned the finalization of the NS II with, de facto, the fall of Putin, i.e. if Putin and his government fall and a liberal one is put into place, there is no problem for the Greens for the whole pipeline to be finalized.

So, what do they mean by that? That the fish and coral of the Baltic don't matter if it's a liberal in charge of Russia? That doesn't make any sense from the point of view of a Green political party.

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 16:47 utc | 36

Args. on Trump vs. Biden etc. are leaving out an important topic.

--- Things seem to have settled into a pure mud-slinging match, an attempt to create a cult, a tribal atmosphere, in which the winner is decided purely by ‘image’ moves and underground manipulations and fraud (both parties are pre-emptively accusing each other of both already..) ---

The War on Terror. Started by G W Bush (PTB, Cheney, others..) post the treasonous 9/11 attacks, went full out, Afghanistan (had nothing to do with 9/11), then the WMD of Saddam, the threat of Iraq, its invasion.

Internally, the Patriot Act, the hunt for Jihadist Terrorists, Gitmo.

Obama promised to halt needless wars and close Gitmo. He managed neither and implemented a ‘surge’ in Afgh. just like Bush did to no avail (imho.) Obama switched policies a bit - from ww2 like invasion (bombing helpless children, holding territory, controlling energy routes…) to an emphasis on ‘targetting leaders’, Barack being the king of targetted drone attacks. But, see, Lybia, Syria, and in part Yemen, though one should not set aside the role of others (Lybia particularly: France, EU.) Plus “color”: Ukraine.. etc.

Trump promised to end the WOT. He seems to have adopted a mix of hard and soft (symbolic) attacks. Like Obama, killing ‘leaders’ like Al-Baghdadi (??), Soleimani, etc. but with more fanfare than Obama. Symbolic is typically the attack on a research facility in Syria with (near) zero deaths, 2018.

Hard is … what? Who exactly defeated ISIL (territory held in the past and now) in Syria, Iraq (Afgh, Nigeria..)? b used to have very good posts about Syria etc.

Note that there have been no consequent ‘Islamist’ terrorist attacks in the US since Trump.

Pre-DT. June 2016, Orlanda nightclub shooting, Omar Matteen.

Oct. 2017, Las Vegas Shooting (very deadly) may have been a terrorist attack that was covered up. The PTB, US Gvmt., Las Vegas authorities, MSM, and Trump pushed the ‘lone shooter’ scenario, Stephen Paddock, hard. Completely unbelievable and absurd as measured against what went down.

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 3 2020 16:58 utc | 37

@Posted by: davenitup | Sep 3 2020 13:36 utc | 7

1) Return on capital is the underlying rule

What is this? I get no return on my "Capital".

Maybe you should amend it to:

1) Return on capital is the underlying rule if you're in the 1% of the rich ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 3 2020 16:59 utc | 38

Ta muchly for all of the input into the "green" party (Germany) info. Wasn't aware - but unsurprised.

Anyone who wants to be a politico, especially at national level, and one for as many years as possible (nice screw - Brit speak for good income) is likely easily subverted, even if they began with reasonably decent intentions (always assuming).

And, of course, it may be that being "green" provided the leg up that wasn't available otherwise. (Moreover, the so-called "Green New Deal" over here has shades, at least, of "everything, everything ecological has a market price..." so how truly environmentally honest and for every ecosystem is it? true as the market will bear.)

Altogether sickening...

Posted by: AnneR | Sep 3 2020 17:02 utc | 39

Picking up on the Greece - Turkey situation:
Victory week is over and Erdogan's rhetoric is now "we should seek a win-win situation"... ))) The US's lifting of the arms embargo over Cyprus might have had something to do with it. But Turkey's position was untenable. Interestingly, now that they are entering into talks, Russia is giving 'live fire' training to the Turks in two areas of the E.Med - similar moral support as the Italians gave last week it seems. Anyway Akar *Turkish Defense Sec.) showed his contempt for his enemies by taking selfies in the back of an F-16 flying well within Turkish Air Space, Fearful stuff!

On the Greek side there seems to be some defence budget lying around and according to this Forbes article, the Greeks could have the edge over Turkey by the end of this year! Two points spring to mind here: 1 Maas claiming that the future path of the EU - TR relationship would be clear by the end of this year; 2 I remember one prominent Greek economist claimed the last financial crisis was directly due to unnecessary defence spending and blamed corruption in the defense sector!

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 17:12 utc | 40


Sorry. Should use preview. The Forbes article of course says by the end of the 20s ... ! ))) Sorry for the error.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 17:19 utc | 41


My take on your query - Do not look at categories, look at people. It’s all a few thousand people, their relatives, their henchmen. Even with an arriviste like Kamala Harris a cursory look shows that her family in Jamaica comes from Hamilton Brown. Who owned 1120 slaves. Not a small player. Related to Alexander Hamilton, as on the US ten dollar bill. Through him she is related to every US President and that is why she was selected. ‘Outsiders’ like Obama or Clinton or Bernie, it is all the same, all the same group of families.

Yes, they currently use capital. Mostly they use birth, and this has not changed for thousands of years.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 3 2020 17:23 utc | 42

Economics chart time:

Have the countries experiencing the largest economic decline performed better in protecting the nation’s health, as we would expect if there was a trade-off?

The two countries which imposed a real lockdown - China and Vietnam - are the only in the chart that will grow in 2020.


Australia, the 'lucky country', has not escaped the COVID pandemic slump, as it did the Great Recession in 2008-9.

The worst part? The Chinese know:

Australia risks backsliding into a poor country in Asia Pacific

China has already stopped imports of Australian barley and wine. It is Australia's biggest trading partner.

There's still time for Australia to repent and publicly apologize to China. They should do it - you can blame it on your Prime Minister (by electing another, pro-China one) and claim he was insane if you want to avoid the humiliation.


India versus China versus Brazil in the COVID

Enlightening graph. That's all.


Meanwhile the Chinese economy, first into the pandemic, continues to be first out in the economic recovery


Progeria of the "emerging economies":

The peripheral so-called 'emerging or developing' economies are really taking a hit in the pandemic

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 17:23 utc | 43

@oldhippie #41

what a great story. Snopes says it is conjecture

Posted by: Malchik Ralf | Sep 3 2020 17:50 utc | 44

Thinking of Angela Merkel's possible response to the supposed poisoning of Navalny by agents of the Russian State: Would Merkel really block the completion of Nordstream 2 over an attempted assassination of a minor political figure in Russia? How would that be received by the German people, who want the cheaper fuel that Nordstream 2 will bring? Where does Germany's own interest lie? Is it in being the U.S.'s poodle? Given the very real possibility that Trump will be out of office come next January, it makes no sense for Merkel to roll over on what is essentially a Russian domestic matter, which is why I wonder what dirt the Deep State has on her. Surely, most, if not all, of her official and personal communications have been monitored by U.S. and UK spooks, and she must be aware of this fact.

For the record, I think that the Navalny affair is a massive hoax a la the Skripal affair.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 3 2020 17:59 utc | 45

Malchik Ralf @ 43

Hamilton Brown is a sufficiently significant character that he has his own page at Wikipedia. As of 2 minutes ago his connection to Harris is still right there. It is not hard to research this stuff. If Snopes says it is false you maybe sure it is true

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 3 2020 18:13 utc | 46

Navalny seems to be of no consequence in Russia. The Russian authorities, however, often act unlawfully and unintelligently by jailing him for minor violations like demonstrating without authorisation. Big deal! But then he gets the western media attention that has the western public believing that Navalny is powerful opposition figure.

Whoever pulled this current thing with Navalny, whatever the thing is, wanted exactly the reaction that we are now seeing - the ganging up on Russian, again, by the US, the UK and the EU, with Germany taking the lead. If the world survives these creatures that are "leaders' (mine they are not) the ganging up on Russia in the last few years, and on Assange, will be known as the the true history of infamy.

Why they are ganging up on Russia so brazenly and brutally for the umpteenth time in a a short time is not precisely established, and this time it is not clear. I tend to agree with b that it probably has primarily to do with Belarus, but there are many motives at play. What is obvious is that the alliance of the ganger-upers is sticking together using the same old tricks. Because they work, and they work because the western public believes them. It would be necessary to actually find out exactly what, why and who so that this ganging up stops once and for all.

Posted by: JB | Sep 3 2020 18:17 utc | 47

Rob @ 44

I would not assume that Merkel actually cares about what happens to her country, so long as she doesn't get blamed politically. I imagine that she wanted to cancel it for years, but couldn't due to lobbying from German industry. This is the excuse that she was looking for.

Will the German public accept the official story? Undoubtedly.

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Sep 3 2020 18:22 utc | 48

Posted by: davenitup | Sep 3 2020 13:36 utc | 7


- Once you have sufficient capital and control means of production, you make the rules and you finance the army. At that point, what need is there for the sovereign. See French Revolution.
- Terms like Liberal, Conservative, Fascist, Democracy, Socialism are theoretical constructs which may be useful for talking purposes but do not apply (literally) to reality - they model reality.

Words are not reality.

Posted by: jared | Sep 3 2020 18:26 utc | 49

Not sure where my original post went ... IF it appears then apologies for the duplication

Picking up on the Turkey- Greece situation, now that Victory Week has finished, Erdogan is ready for talks )))) The US lifting of the arms embargo on Cyprus might also have had something to do with it! At the same time, in similar fashion to Italy, Russia is about to give live-fire training to Turkey in the E.Med. Seems like moral support to me. Zacharov made it clear that it is not an opportunistic act. At the same time Akar, decided to show his contempt for his enemies by taking selfies in the back of an F-16 while flying well within Turkish airspace of course! (NATO as usual doesn't seem to be clear as to whether Stoltenberg was right about NATO brokering the talks or not - incompetence really becomes habit it seems!)

On the Greek side it looks like a lot of defense spending is being committed. Forbes reckons Greece will be better equipped than Turkey by the end of this decade if the acquisitions are made. I remember an eminent Greek economist blaming the last financial crisis squarely on corrupt Defense sector and its unnecessary purchases / contracts (it was Germany and France then, too!)

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 18:28 utc | 50

Re: US elections

PA, FL polls (pdf)
from Quinnipiac

Biden +3% in FL (based on past years polls, this means likely Trump ties or wins FL)
Biden +8% in PA

Biden has lower favorability in FL
Trump has lower favorability in PA

Top issues in FL: 1. economy 2. law&order 3. covid
Top issues in PA: 1. economy 2. covid 3. law&order

Posted by: ptb | Sep 3 2020 19:15 utc | 51

Re: US elections

The above implies to me that the Trump administration would try to concentrate national resources for containing Covid, and/or relief for those affected, on PA.

Posted by: ptb | Sep 3 2020 19:19 utc | 52

Yeah sure the Ruskies couldn't help it. They always have to use this novichok, which is guaranteed to point the finger at them. But for some reason, they just can't think of anything else to use. /s

Posted by: blues | Sep 3 2020 19:22 utc | 53

"How would that be received by the German people, who want the cheaper fuel that Nordstream 2 will bring? Where does Germany's own interest lie? Is it in being the U.S.'s poodle?"
Posted by: Rob | Sep 3 2020 17:59 utc | 45

I wonder about this as well.

I suspect a fraction of the German populations sentiments are similar to some US dissident viewpoints.
Govt is beyond repair from within and no external parties will bring reform.

Do Germans realize the "migrant crisis" is a direct result of US destabilizing the Mid-East with the added bonus of destabilizing and dividing Germans as well? Why does Germany allow the US to occupy them and treat them like lapdogs?

Posted by: CitizenX | Sep 3 2020 19:28 utc | 54

Why does Germany allow the US to occupy them and treat them like lapdogs?


Well, I heard there were these minor events in the 20th Century called World War 1 and World War 2, which I've been told had something to do with it. Not sure exactly what, the details are a little vague, and to be honest it's probably all CIA disinformation/conspiracy theory anyway.

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 3 2020 19:36 utc | 55

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 17:12 utc | 40

Interesting to see someone who claims to be an expert on Turkey, so supportive of Greece. There are a lot of Greek miniature islands on the Turkish coast, like Kastellorizo, where Greece claims vast economic sea zones, without justification.

Of course there's a millennial history behind this. In periods where Greece dominated, like under 5th century Athens, these islands were under Greece. At other times Anatolia dominated, and Greece retreated. It's not obvious that Greece has a right today, other than 19th century conquest, since supported by Europe.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 3 2020 20:19 utc | 56

Question to the bar: with the digital economy created, where does the paper money go to die?
I mean, I remember seeing a video eleven truckloads of $100 bills going to Iraq for Sunni awakening.
How does the empire pay people off, not shoot at back?
{snark}How do Russia and Iran pay the Taliban to kill US soldiers?{/snark}

Key fobs, anyone?

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Sep 3 2020 20:23 utc | 57

Posted by: davenitup | Sep 3 2020 13:36 utc | 7

'Help me flesh out my naive understanding of the world:'

OK. That's a challenge, but I'll try.

'1) Return on capital is the underlying rule'
No! POWER is the underlying rule. Money is the primary source of that power. With enough money one can take power over the political systems (such as in the U.S., Britain, the E.U. Structures). With power over the political systems, legal and economic structures are created to ensure that those at the top will enjoy a virtual and unchallenged monopoly over money and power.

'4) There is a constant turf war among capital owners and that's all that really matters.'
Not quite.
There are 3 (loosely knit) groups that are currently waging a 3-sided war for control of the world's destiny, a war that is now reaching a crescendo.
The first group is commonly known as the 'Globalists'. Who these people are is described here (Who Are The Globalists And What Do They Want%20%20%20 Zero Hedge.html) and here (The Federal Reserve Cartel_ The Eight Families _ Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization.html). The 'Globalists' are what I would call post-colonialists. The wealth and power of the core group grew out of colonial times, but they feel that they have outgrown the straitjacket of nation states, and believe that they can now provide enlightened rule to the world as an integrated whole through global institutions under their control. These people are altruistic, believing that they alone can ensure a sustainable world in which all of mankind can live in peace and in harmony with nature. Of course, with the exception of themselves who will profit handsomely from their control over all economic activity, all people, living in a world without borders, will need to share equally the limited renewable resources that the earth can 'sustainably' provide.

The second group is what I call the 'Authoritarian Nationalists'. These are people who, like the Globalists, are authoritarian dictators by nature, but unlike the 'Globalists' limit the scope of their concerns to their own nations. They are led by people like Trump, Netanyahu, Mohamed bin Salmon, Victor Orban, Erdogan and the like. These people appear to want to return to the 'colonial' era where their own country's wealth is a result of the colonial exploitation of regional or global empires.

The third group is the 'Multi-Polar World Order'. This group can be thought of as the 'anti-colonialists' and are dedicated to the destruction of the remaining vestiges of colonialism. This group is made up of countries whose governments actually try to work for benefit of their populations, who believe that each country should be allowed to choose its own destiny free from outside interference. This group of countries is led by Russia and China.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Globalists felt that they were unchallenged, and ambitiously ramped up their plans for Global Governance, starting with the integration of Europe through the device of Euro, followed by 9/11 and the ensuing operations to take care of any recalcitrant states.

The rise of China as an economic power, who refused to turn over its government to the Globalists, and the emergence of Russia as a military power capable of blocking 'Globalist' regime change operations, beginning with Syria in 2013, ignited the war between the 'Globalists' and the 'Multi-Polar World Order'. This war, informational, economic and at times kinetic (Syria, Crimea, Venezuela) has been raging ever since with increasing intensity.

The impoverishment of populations, a natural result of the Globalist agenda, in countries already controlled by the Globalists has led to the emergence of the nationalists and populists in Europe, Brexit in Britain and Trump in the U.S. Since approximately 2016, the Authoritarian Nationalists, led by Trump, have become an ever more serious, and perhaps, existential problem for the Globalists.

So no, this is not a constant turf war among capital owners, it is an existential struggle between three centers of global power whose co-existence is mutually exclusive. While the Authoritarian Nationalists and the Multi-Polar World Order may be able to tolerate other if they live in separate spheres (and thus Trump's attempt to isolate Russia and China), the survival of either represents an existential threat to the Globalists. For the immediate, the biggest threat to the Globalists is Trump, and thus they will stop at nothing to remove him from power, even if it means destroying the U.S. in the process. In the longer term, if they survive Trump, the Globalists will continue their war against the Multi-Polar World order until they either get their Global Government or they are bankrupted trying.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Sep 3 2020 20:24 utc | 58

Contra-Conspiraloon @54

The occupation of Germany immediately post WWII (didn't happen post WWI) by, first the US, UK, FR and the USSR (East Germany as it became) and then, essentially only the USA, was perhaps justifiable for the first few years post the war. (Ditto Japan.)

But for 75 years???? Wherein lies the justification for nearly a century of occupation? Neither Germany nor Japan need the USA to hold their hands, to ensure that they behave themselves like good little folks. (Well, we know what the US considers "good behavior": do as we want.)

The US occupation hasn't prevented Germany's rise to power in the EU...quite other.

The importance of staying in occupation is continuing the cold war, maintaining the military bases and their arsenals pointed at Russia... Japan is the base (along with SK) for pointing weapons at China & NK...

Posted by: Anne | Sep 3 2020 20:27 utc | 59

U.S. debt to reach 100% of GDP in 2021

What the Chinese think about this:

Unsustainable US debt level a cause for concern

Posted by: vk | Sep 3 2020 20:36 utc | 60

@Laguerre 55

You have no idea what are you talking about. You are embarrassing yourself.

Pls stop.

Posted by: DG | Sep 3 2020 20:43 utc | 61

Posted by: DG | Sep 3 2020 20:43 utc | 60

Oh really? sounds more like you who has a problem.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 3 2020 20:46 utc | 62

The Ottoman empire was defeated in World War I and carved up. Turkey arose from the central part, yet all its offshore islands were awarded to Greece and Italy. After Italy lost World War II, they were transferred to Greece
Here's a visual of the current Turkey-Greece situation. No wonder Turkey is concerned. . .h/t g2mil

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 3 2020 20:56 utc | 63

@vk 59

Exploding government debt will justify cutting social services and will complicate the option of ever raising OPinterest rate policy. But Japan for example managed the latter situation for decades.

The difference is Japan's trade surplus vs US trade deficit. The July figure was $63B, which would be 0.75 tril or 3.6% GDP annualized. That aspect is bad but not spectacularly so. To be fair, the GDP is inflated by financial components. 2019 US had 2.5tril exports and 3.1tril imports. In that respect, the imbalance is pretty big, with the annualized July rate being 30% of annual US exports!

There may be a shift in exchange rates (it's really up to the Fed/ECB/BOJ/PBOC working together), but any change there doesn't stop the Fed from financing limitless amounts as long as the rest of the world uses dollars for trade, outside the US. It all takes time...

Posted by: ptb | Sep 3 2020 21:02 utc | 64

AtaBrit @5--

The answer dwells within the Outlaw US Empire's Fracking Ponzi Scheme that's been dissected by many, including Max Keiser of the Keiser Report. Of the many reports done by them on fracking, IMO this one touches all the bases and is worth 15 minutes of everyone's time to watch and learn. With NS2 out of the way, all Natgas prices would rise since the overall supply will not be as great as anticipated going forward thus giving the banks a better chance to get some of their bond money back. Further info can be found reading the reports by David Hughes that stick to the physical geology prospects for fracking which informs you why so much money must be constantly poured into the well holes.

So at least watch the video and ask some follow-up questions if you have any and save the reports to read with your morning tea.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 21:16 utc | 65

@ (the ever delightful) Laguerre | 55
"someone who claims to be an expert"
We've been here before, I think - Care to point to the comment in which I make such a claim?

As for supporting Greece I guess you missed the part where I suggested that corruption in the defense sector is still rife?

And as for the islands - I mentioned them in a post when Yeni Safak suggested they be invaded recently... )))

Anyway, thanks for reading my comments. x

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 21:17 utc | 66

Some who are aware might ask “Why are they pushing so hard and so fast this time, and whats the end game?”

The timing might be accelerated due to the Coming Grand Solar Minimum. One faction of the predatory elite was banking on using Global Warming/Climate Change to force change. A growing awareness the threat was not imminent enough and a coming Little Ice Age meant they needed an accelerator to take us into the 4Th IR at Warp Speed Plus.

To fully understand requires a discussion on the role of Communism and Fascism. For brevity I will not go further back into the historical origins which takes us back to Platos Republic -Noble Lie and even further back to Cyrus and Zoroastrianism

The Enlightenment enabled the illuminated elite the means for creating the coming Age of Darkness . The Enlightenment brought forth the belief that man could be ruled without laws that were constrained by Natural or Gods laws. As Hitler and Stalin both admitted, their actions were legal based on their countries (mans) laws. The same is true today in US. The constitution has been corrupted by legal precedent.

The belief in Christian values had acted as a great constraint on the ability of the psychopathic predatory elite, which is why they attacked it starting from the 18th century(some might argue as early as the 16th century with Reformation. )

In the 19th century there was enormous increase in post-moral cynicism and ruthlessness due to the ideas of Nietzsche and the ideology of Social Darwinism, leading to nationalist-fascist-militarism, “scientific-socialist” Communism and in the middle monopolistic-exploitive capitalism. This set the stage for a century of war and Satanic cruelty in the Age of Reason

Compounding the problem is the elite are now united by their own Religion. That religion is Transhumanism, an extension of Gnosticism. They are Homeo Deus. We are neanderthals (Homo I) They consider themselves your Gods and our only purpose is to serve them. Those who cant serve or are not needed will be eliminated.

G. K. Chesterton had it right, “when people cease to believe in God it is not that they believe in nothing, but that they believe in anything.”

The destruction of the belief in the God-man Jesus Christ led to new divination and deification, the pursuit and celebration of the man-god, “homo deus,” and Nietzsche’s conception of the post-moral “Superman.”

The marriage of the sub-moral Darwinian idea of “survival of the fittest” and Nietzsche’s idea of the post-moral will to power produced a predatory mindset that exists today and is promoting Fascism through the guise of Technocracy and Neoliberalism . Eugenics and Malthusian beliefs are now called Sustainability, Population Control and Genetics .

Fascism appears to be opposite of Communism but its mostly the same . The Predatory Elite created both. Fascism is typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic , and was passed off under the name of Communism by duping the working class and marketing it as workers utopian Marxism. Facsism marketed itself to a working class that embraced Patriotism/Nationalism, Capitalism and Racism

The original ideals of the left leaning proletariat were subsumed to state control of Capitalists/Production. In fascism you have Capitalist control over state or in partnership with state such as with ,Mussolini like Public-Private Partnerships that exploit the working class without the illusion of Marxism . In the 21st Century we have the illusion of Democratic Capitalism in the West or Capitalism with Chinese characteristics in the East. Both are Fascist.

The fascist state regulates and controls (as opposed to nationalizing) the means of production. The only socialism is Corporate Socialism. Fascism exalts the nation or state and corporation as superior to the individuals composing it. Fascism like Communism uses populist rhetoric; calls for a heroic mass effort; and demands loyalty to a single leader or party, often to the point of a cult of personality.

After the end of WWII in which we supposedly defeated Fascism, half the World ended up as Communist, including Poland and China which were the alleged reasons we went to War against Germany and Japan. Communism, especially Stalinism (not so much Maoism) was actually more Fascism than Marxism. The democratic half became anti -communists creating the Cold War to prop up the Military and Intelligence Industrial Complex that would subvert Democracy globally and transition it to Fascism.

Fascists like Allen Dulles and Bush and Industrialists/Wall Street who had backed Hitler snd admired Mussolini took cover behind anti-Communist propaganda and managed to unite under Neoliberal economics, public private partnerships, and the Business Roundtable using Dark Money and MSM control to control elections and perceptions.

In 1975 Project Democracy (its destruction) planned the disintegration of the US economy and society and implemented under direction of the Trilateral Commission which controlled Government starting with the Carter administration although Ford/Kissinger/Bush laid the foundations (NSSM 200, Swine Flu, Bush privatizing the CIA as the Enterprise). An attempt to formally change the constitution failed and a workaround found with FEMA and Continuity of Government Plans. They finished off the remaining Nationalists over the next 2 decades with Israeli honey traps , wiretaps and PROMIS, and the predators were allowed to seize control of both Parties leadership with Dark Money. By 2000 the Constitution and our Democracy had been Reinvented and sent to the scrap heap with the Chad tainted farce of an election and following up with the criminal 9/11 abomination that symbolically represented the Controlled Demolition of Democracy and the American Dream. The Predatory psychopathic elite were in full control and united in all except for a few details that would be worked out in secrecy.

Yet the illusion of Democracy is still strong among the US blue pill takers with its 2 party fake wrestling system . Just as Chinas illusion of Socialism under one party rule. In the US as in China the party (parties) are both controlled by a handful of billionaire globalist predatory elites marching in lockstep under cover of the WEF”s 4Th Industrial Revolution and Agenda 2030

China converted their Communism (Fascism without private ownership) to Fascism in all but name, maintaining authoritarian rule and allowing private ownership, and converting state ownership to private ownership of Party members which are subsidized by the states working class . They are subsidized by the people in the form of taxes , debt and giving up their share of the states profits which previously were paid out in the form of social benefits under Communism

At the same time the Soviet Union chose to drop all pretense of Socialism and choose the Wests crypto Fascism, and shortly thereafter Europe would fall to the Fascist European Union that would be dominated by Germany. This was a goal Hitler himself sought to achieve , although Germany now was occupied by the US and the City of London still pulls the strings while staying outside the reach of the EU control.

I believe the Fake Cold War being staged between China and US is simply a useful tool for both countries to assume more control over their population by using an external enemy to blame for problems at home and demand more sacrifices while feeding the various Military, Intelligence, Security, Tech industrial Complexes. Maybe they will use a war to effect population reduction by agreeing to rules that will protect the elites property. Like in WWII where miraculously many big German companies who had US partners remained unscathed amid the ruins of population centers, including IG Farbens HQ

In truth China and the US/Europe elites are partners the 4th Industrial Revolution that will spawn the New Global Fascist Republic

As for Covid my theory is this was part of the plan for a Global Fascist Republic. A plan thats been evolving and been incrementally directed for at least 250 years. The plan went into its operational phase at Warp Speed , at the the time of the new Millennium. Over this time there has been an acceleration as industry and technology have provided the predator class more tools to ultimately control the world and all its resources and people. SARS and Swine Flu of 2009 were all test runs for COVID. After 2009 the Billionaires club got together, issued Rockefeller’s LockStep plan and Gates announced the Decade of Vaccines. Plans for the next Pandemic as a trigger for more authoritarianism began in earnest.

The old order must be demolished to bring in the new. This is whats happening. Amidst the ashes the Great Reset will begin in 2021 and will be announced at Davos and will be completed by 2030 to fulfill Agenda 2030. Only thing for certain is most of those bottom 90% ers in the developed world will be poorer and less free, and there will be far fewer of you as you can be replaced by AI and Robots.

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Sep 3 2020 21:17 utc | 67

Big development in the Navalny Saga noted in my comment on that thread!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 21:19 utc | 68

@karlof1 | 64
That is incredibly interesting and it makes a lot of sense now you explain it. I thought the fracking industry had just collapsed, but of course... very interesting. Will have a look. Thanks.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Sep 3 2020 21:21 utc | 69

I admit that I got sick of certain regulars hassling b about his covid coverage.

Thing is, they were right.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 3 2020 21:33 utc | 70

Circling back to Covid-19 for a moment...

Interesting articles about the process the corona virus uses to inflict its damage on the human body. The gist is that it may be a disruption of the systems that produce the bradykinin peptide that leads to the symptoms of Covid-19. That theory explains a number of the symptoms of the disease and also tends to explain the widely varying organs and systems that are affected by the virus.
The first article gives an overview, the second is a bit narrower and more technical.
Both illustrate that we are watching scientific analysis and discovery in real time regarding this virus and that process can result in significant changes in the understanding of the phenomenon.

Posted by: loneplateau | Sep 3 2020 21:33 utc | 71

Xi lays the lumber to Trump and Pompeo for the first time:

"Xi also pointed out that anyone or any force that intends to distort and change socialism with Chinese characteristics, or deny and deface the great progress that the Chinese people have made in building socialism, won't be tolerated. And the Chinese people will not agree on anyone and any force that separates the CPC and the Chinese people and make them confront each other, the Chinese president said.

"Also, anyone and any force that tries to impose their will on China through bullying tactics and attempts to change the development path of the country, obstruct the efforts of the Chinese people to create a better life for themselves, won't be tolerated, China's top leader noted.

"Any person or force that attempts to undermine the Chinese people's right to live in peace and development, to undermine exchanges and cooperation between the Chinese people and the people of other countries, and undermine the peace and development of mankind, won't be accepted neither, Xi said."

I was curious when Xi would finally speak out in such a manner, although such speech isn't his style. After several years of non-stop lies, slander, libel, and physical provocations--perhaps even a bioweapon attack--the bully was just pushed backwards. And IMO the bully must be continually pushed until it finally shuts-up.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 21:36 utc | 72

@ karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 21:36 utc | 71 with Xi speech link....thanks

Maybe that is why the Market tanked today. One can only hope that some adults of the West are listening somewhere.

Given Trump's virus failure that keeps escalating I expect him to pour gasoline on the fires he has been starting....the next 60 days will be quite interesting I Hell in a hand basket anyone?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 3 2020 21:47 utc | 73

psychohistorian @72--

Hell, all of Wall Street is way over valued and ought to shed about 15,000 points to bring it back to earth. As for where Hell is, here's one image and here's another. And we must include Hell's Jester.

While Xi's pushing Pompeo backwards, we need Putin to scamper around behind him and become a small wall for Pompeo to be pushed over so he cracks his head on the ground really hard--that would be the analogy for the payback Lukashenko and Putin have planned for the latest Novichok gambit.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 22:07 utc | 74

Posted by: AnneR | Sep 3 2020 14:40 utc | 18

But, it's freedom gas. Would you like some freedom fries with that?

The Green Party in Canada was in favour of R2PP. They are also in favour of oligarchs taking money that isn't theirs to "save" the world from climate change. See Planet of the Humans. Leaches really.

Posted by: Tom | Sep 3 2020 22:13 utc | 75

@ Mark2 | Sep 3 2020 15:00 utc | 23.. no one seems interested mark! regarding twitter perhaps changing there policy - it means those who post twitter links might not get any response as their is nothing to see on the links they shared.. it has happened to me twice in the past day at moa... lets see how it unfolds..

regarding the green party and what they stand for... i can comment from where i live - in one of only 2 or 3 federal ridings in canada that succeeded in getting the green candidate elected - the green party appeals to young people who are fed up with the regular mainstream parties... as i see it the green party is ripe to be hijacked by other interests.. and as vk and others have noted - they don't seem to have anything to do with concern for the environment in the case of germanys green party..

greece - turkey... i am interested in this topic, so thanks to atabrit, laguerre and others for commenting on what is or isn't happening.. i have visited some of those islands - chios, samos and a few others.. they are right on the coast of turkey, quite a ways from athens...i believe as laguerre says - "there's a millennial history behind this."

@ 71 karlof1... i read that.. maybe... it sounds plausible, but they are going to have to substantiate it and make it publicly available for others to decipher..

Posted by: james | Sep 3 2020 22:16 utc | 76

@ 74 tom... thanks for the documentary mention - planet of humans.. i will take a look at that...

Posted by: james | Sep 3 2020 22:20 utc | 77

Thanks, karlof1 @ 67. I would think this is indeed big news - interesting that it was taken as a threat by the Belarus government. Perhaps more important to the perpetrators than the threat of the closure on the pipeline is a closure of disruption on the border of Russia?

The scenario then ought to be viewed as was viewed the disruptive (and foiled) pre-protest attempt itself, very interesting that the communication is between Warsaw and Berlin. It reminds me somewhat of the attempt on Erdogan a while back. Still seems very muddled, but maybe we'll finally get to the bottom of all the 'novachok' business as this unravels. Maybe not, but even Xi's remarks have relevance.

As somebody once said, why can't we all get along??

Posted by: juliania | Sep 3 2020 22:22 utc | 78

David Graeber, activist anthropologist and author of Debt: The First 5,000 Years, has passed away all too young at 59.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 22:31 utc | 79

Karlof1 I think the increased clarity is so that no one later can pretend they didn't know. Same from Russia, repeatedly.

China could be signalling that they already know they could win a war against the US, not only in the Pacific but in the US. I think they would do so by using their JL-2's much more aggressively and tactically than it would be if used as part of a nuclear triad.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 3 2020 22:37 utc | 80

Thank you, dh-mtl | Sep 3 2020 20:24 utc | 57.

At first my eyes glazed over at the size of your comment, but it was very readable and even if others may take a different tack, I think you did a creditable job explaining the world scenario.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 3 2020 22:41 utc | 81

AtaBrit @68--

I made a search at RT and got this listing of the many Keiser Reports that deal with fracking. The one at the top of the list I watched earlier this year and ought to be very helpful. You'll quickly note that Max and Stacey detail the Neoliberal machinations of the Fed and how they interact with the several Ponzi Schemes its currently running. Yes, Max and Stacey do plug Bitcoin, but that's a small price to pay for all the other great info they provide. Max's interviews of Michael Hudson are also priceless. Another RT production I highly suggest is Renegade Inc, whose host for the half-hour shows is Ross Ashcroft.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 22:46 utc | 82

Btw (in my head) this also connects to the recent "export ban" (in essence) on Chinese AI.

I think it's safe to assume that (whether right or wrong) they now feel confident that despite how they won't launch first they'll still win even if entirely on their own and also be able to do so without megadeaths.

Or maybe I read it all entirely wrong.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 3 2020 22:50 utc | 83

[Maybe I enjoyed watching (the Korean) "Steel Rain 2" a bit too much, also much more of a comedy than the first one :P]

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 3 2020 22:57 utc | 84

On Xi's speech, there is also pouring's comment @ 15 to consider.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 3 2020 23:08 utc | 85

Thank you, dh-mtl | Sep 3 2020 20:24 utc | 57

i second julianias comment to you @ 80... not sure how accurate your overview is, but it sounds reasonable...

Posted by: james | Sep 3 2020 23:18 utc | 86

karlof1 @64:

Natgas prices would rise since the overall supply will not be as great as anticipated going forward thus giving the banks a better chance to get some of their bond money back

What do you mean when you say "banKs"

You probably don't care what it means when you say that word "bank". Do you mean deposit institutions?
Or by "bank" do you mean Wall Street firms that manage money for private investors?

There is some similarity between the two in that if you have idle cash you might have that money held by one or the other.

But regardless of what you mean (or don't bother to care to mean) you can be sure that very little of any "banks" own money is invested in fracking. The banks that invest in fracking are the Wall Street investment firms and they put other peoples money into fracking not their own.

The fracking that Max Keiser calls a Ponzi scheme is fracking for oil. Fracking for natural gas is not so much a Ponzi scheme as it is an environmental disaster. As long as the frackers don't have to pay for the environmental damage, gas fracking is profitable.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 3 2020 23:36 utc | 87

I don't think it is about selling Natural gas. That would be a nice cherry on top if they succeed but it is about keeping Russia away from Europe more than anything else, IMO.

Posted by: arby | Sep 3 2020 23:44 utc | 88

Posted by: juliania | Sep 3 2020 22:41 utc | 80
Posted by: james | Sep 3 2020 23:18 utc | 85

Thanks for the comments.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Sep 3 2020 23:56 utc | 89

@ karlof1 | Sep 3 2020 22:31 utc | 78 with the link about David Graeber's death......SHIT!

I was semi-involved in Occupy Portland and met David briefly when he came out to speak. I got him to sign my copy of Debt: The First 5000 Years and have a couple of We Are The 99% signs that I purchased during that time.....I keep waiting for the right time to put them back out.

His energy will be missed. I will make a point of reading the book that he just finished with author David Wengrove titled ‘The Dawn of Everything: a New History of Humanity,’ which is set to be published next year.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 3 2020 23:57 utc | 90

Thank you Karlof1 (64)for the very interesting link.
This is shattering,but how about the media will not mention it.
This happens often,remember the pressconference with the alleged chloride poisoned kids from Douma.In relation with that some OPCW reunion where russians tell the truth but are ignored.MH17 etc.If the media talk about it at all,then by mouth of some inside defense expert who offers this to the public as a joke by his dictatorness.Look how crazy he is Luckyshenko (laughs)

Actually in the Tass-article you link to,he comes over as fairly clever.

Posted by: willie |

Posted by: willie | Sep 4 2020 0:10 utc | 91

David Graeber's death is a real downer.
A smart, literate anarchist.
Brilliant writer. And had been on the front lines.
I was a bit shocked when I heard the news.

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Sep 4 2020 0:50 utc | 92

Juliania: thank you, I didn't think of that even though I read the comment.

I think my bias might be that I too easily and perhaps wrongly consider the India-China issues to be internal Indian political infighting and relatively contained outbreaks of madness. India's government has gone completely bonkers if they're actively encouraging a fight with China rather than suffering from internal troublemakers and extremists within their own power structure. Both China and India deserves much better than to have to waste lives and resources on anything like it.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 4 2020 0:56 utc | 93

It never ends, doesn't it?

#Trotsky2020: A Morenoite slander against the legacy of Leon Trotsky

Lucky me I live in the 21st Century, where Trotsky's complete works are freely available on the internet. If I want to know what Trotsky really meant, I can go straight to the original source.

Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 1:13 utc | 94

The questions about banks and gas above, please take the time to watch this Keiser Report as it explains a great deal and you only need to watch the first half of the program--12.5 minutes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 4 2020 1:15 utc | 95

I wanted to ask people's opinions as to why the US would want to kill NS II - it is much more than just money of course and the price could be the significant worsening of EU/ US relations.

(I know I should pay more attention to US politics but I really value my sanity ...)

Posted by: AtaBrit @ 5 Why..Kill NS II.. the governments of the USA, Britain, France, Spain, Israel, Turkey and Portugal are the keepers of the green monopoly powered liquid gold (privately owned $USD hegemony, oil and gas, copyrighted and patented technology to produce and private ownership or control of the oil and gas beneath the sea and 20 miles inland (Truman and Church-hill, 1946) <=the western Gold cartel can no longer make rule of law, military threat, and technology work to block competition to its investment in Gold.

The monopoly endowed technology armed feudal lords .. the oil industry and its technology owners, bankers and its supporting leaches, suppliers and dependents. .. unable to compete at ~$34 a barrel, and because unlicensed oil gluts were happening, they idea was to force Europeans to buy their new Gold (LNG), but that too cannot be profitable at competitive prices.

So unable to compete in the open market and unable to use monopoly power and war to block oncoming competition, they are being forced under the bridge, worse the governed in these Gold controlled nation states, have begun to understand their plight has been caused by state support for private monopoly owners. Gold controlled nation states are everywhere facing risings. If these oligarchs loose their gold, they will no longer be in charge at the nation states and their new homes will be under the bridge.

Since 1897, the gold industry has forced Russian-Japan war, WWI, WWII, 1919 October revolution, Balfour Agreement, conversion of a military base located in the center of the gold in the middle east, and everyone everywhere to accept their take-all leave no survivor policy which eliminated all who would compete. Already propaganda, lock downs, and information control have been established; the gold industry intends to do whatever it takes to quash all competition.. NSII (German Technology:Russia Gold cooperation), Iran, Iraq, China, Turkey, all have massive quantities of nearly free gas and lots of new oil finds each year, and because their labor cost is lower, much lower cost to produce the gold. The recent jaw-breaking merger of Israel with a traditional Muslim block nation evidences the pain, already being felt by the Gold diggers.
My answer to your ? is the price of gold is too low because there are too many competitors. WWIII is about to happen unless the bottom rises, on both sides, to stop the nation states support for it and I think the humanity in the world is moving to do just that, eliminate the nation state system.

Posted by: snake | Sep 4 2020 2:28 utc | 96

"Well, I heard there were these minor events in the 20th Century called World War 1 and World War 2, which I've been told had something to do with it. Not sure exactly what, the details are a little vague, and to be honest it's probably all CIA disinformation/conspiracy theory anyway."
Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 3 2020 19:36 utc | 54

Well aren't you just a class act troll. Can't really make out what you're trying to say with that dick in your mouth, you sound a little garbled?

Yes we know USA still (permanently) occupies Japan and Germany. Why?

Why doesn't Russia still occupy Germany? They actually defeated Ger and suffered more casualties than France, GB and USA combined.

Why doesn't GB occupy N.Africa, Germany, Italy or the Pacific?

Why doesn't France have permanent bases in Germany?

You must be a dumbfuck hypocritical American- Yes?

Posted by: CitizenX | Sep 4 2020 2:46 utc | 97

@ CitizenX | Sep 4 2020 2:46 utc | 96 who wrote
You must be a dumbfuck hypocritical American- Yes?

Careful now there cause my tax dollars that don't go to blowing people up and subjugating others are likely supporting said dumbfuck hypocritical American.....

Thanks CitizenX, I don't have the time for such as they

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 4 2020 3:01 utc | 98

Should a Covid vaccine be released, what are people’s thoughts on getting it?
Myself, i have zero interest.

Posted by: Kevin | Sep 4 2020 3:18 utc | 99

@ Kevin | Sep 4 2020 3:18 utc | 98 who asks a very good question

I have no interest in any vaccine until more is know about the Covid virus.

From what I have read the chances of any vaccine being effective are similar to the crap shoot with annual flu thanks

The for-profit health care system in the US is a crime against humanity, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 4 2020 3:29 utc | 100

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