Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 11, 2020

Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman Infects Readers With 9/11 Dementia

The prize for the worst tweet of the year goes to Paul Krugman.


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In the real world the U.S. reacted to 9/11 by doing extremely bad and ridiculous things as well as this:

In the days, weeks, and months immediately following the 9/11 attacks, Arab-Americans, South Asian-Americans, Muslim-Americans, and Sikh-Americans were the targets of widespread hate violence. Many of the perpetrators of these acts of hate violence claimed they were acting patriotically by retaliating against those responsible for 9/11.
...
Just after September 11, numerous Arabs, Muslims, and individuals perceived to be Arab or Muslim were assaulted, and some killed, by individuals who believed they were responsible for or connected to the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. The first backlash killing occurred four days after September 11.

Balbir Singh Sodhi was shot to death on September 15 as he was planting flowers outside his Chevron gas station. The man who shot Sodhi, Frank Roque, had told an employee of an Applebee’s restaurant that he was “going to go out and shoot some towel heads.” Roque mistakenly thought Sodhi was Arab because Sodhi, an immigrant from India, had a beard and wore a turban as part of his Sikh faith. After shooting Sodhi, Roque drove to a Mobil gas station a few miles away and shot at a Lebanese-American clerk. He then drove to a home he once owned and shot and almost hit an Afghani man who was coming out the front door. When he was arrested two hours later, Roque shouted, “I stand for America all the way.”

The next two killings were committed by a man named Mark Stroman. On September 15, 2001, Stroman shot and killed Waquar Hassan, an immigrant from Pakistan, at Hassan’s grocery store in Dallas, Texas. On October 4, 2001, Stroman shot and killed Vasudev Patel, an immigrant from India and a naturalized U.S. citizen, while Patel was working at his Shell station convenience store. A store video camera recorded the killing, helping police to identify Stroman as the killer. Stroman later told a Dallas television station that he shot Hassan and Patel because, “We’re at war. I did what I had to do. I did it to retaliate against those who retaliated against us.”

Beyond these killings, there were more than a thousand other anti-Muslim or anti-Arab acts of hate which took the form of physical assaults, verbal harassment and intimidation, arson, attacks on mosques, vandalism, and other property damage.

Instead of "calming prejudice" the GB Bush administration institutionalized hate crimes:

First, in the weeks immediately following the September 11 attacks, the government began secretly arresting and detaining Arab, Muslim, and South Asian men. Within the first two months after the attacks, the government had detained at least 1,200 men.
...
Second, in November 2001, the Department of Justice began efforts to “interview” approximately 5,000 men between the ages of 18 and 33 from Middle Eastern or Muslim nations who had arrived in the United States within the previous two years on a temporary student, tourist, or business visa and were lawful residents of the United States. Four months later, the government announced it would seek to interview an additional 3,000 men from countries with an Al Qaeda presence.
...
Third, in September 2002, the government implemented a “Special Registration” program also known as NSEERS (National Security Entry-Exit Registration System), requiring immigrant men from 26 mostly Muslim countries to register their name, address, telephone number, place of birth, date of arrival in the United States, height, weight, hair and eye color, financial information and the addresses, birth dates and phone numbers of parents and any foreign friends with the government.

Besides all that a rather useless security theater was installed at U.S. airports which has costs many billions in lost time and productivity ever since. The Patriot Act was introduced which allowed for unlimited spying on private citizens. Wars were launched that were claimed to be justified by 9/11. These were "mass outbreaks of anti-Muslim sentiment and violence. Many were killed and maimed in them. People were tortured and vanished. All of this happened largely to applause of a majority of the U.S. people which were glued to 24 and dreamed of  being "terrorist hunters".

Anyone with a functional memory knows that the U.S. reaction to 9/11 was anything but "pretty calm". It is ridiculous that Krugman is claiming that.

Posted by b on September 11, 2020 at 15:46 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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I'd like to simply recommend Lambert Strether's 9/11 watercooler post @ nakedcapitalism.com. I know it's a long read, but what else do US citizens have to do these days who are not worthy first responders or workers in our struggling economy - kudos to both. It might be of interest also to those from other countries who are puzzled at the course this nation has taken since the original 9/11, and it does touch on the paul krugman theme as well.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 12 2020 16:02 utc | 101

@ jinn # 95 and Jackrabbit # 99 about William Gruff comments

I agree with Gruff on most things but his bias about the ignorance of the elite and supposed lack of planning is troublesome.

Mr. Gruff, please click on my moniker link and go to the FAR report option within the web site and download a report I created almost 50 years ago about using the Field Anomaly Relaxation (FAR) planning tool....yes, it is typewritten...

If you read it you will understand that 50 years ago there was the ability to game out alternative futures and think about where these tools have gone in 50 years with computerization. I understand the GIGO concept but I don't think the elite paying the think tanks to develop these scenarios are that clumsy....they know what is at stake for them because they have been moving the levers of finance for centuries.

As is spelled out in the latest Hudson link provided by karlof1, the West needs to return to the mixed economy of the Mesopotamia era.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 16:05 utc | 102

@ juliania | Sep 12 2020 16:02 utc | 101 who suggests folk go read a nakedcapitalism piece.

I was called "crazypants" at nakedcapitalism for pushing for public banking and the end of private banking. Take the TINA view of private finance that nakedcapitalism subtly or not pushes into consideration with everything they put out.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 16:09 utc | 103

@B:

But Krugman thinks those things didn't happen because it wasn't reported in the New York Times.

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 12 2020 16:29 utc | 104

Much thanks to karlof1 @ 62 for linking to Prof. Hudson's essay on Polyani, which I have bookmarked, after reading the first paragraphs comparing Marx's analyses to the former, and skimming the rest. This is a monumental essay! As an Orthodox Christian, the references made by Prof. Hudson in his latest book to Christ's early sermon and the prayer that is important to all Christians have deepened my understanding of these issues, and this essay as well promises to deepen my understanding of the history of economics, so thank you again! It is indeed very relevant to the worldwide struggles we are all, in our various incremental ways, currently trying to put on a positive track towards world peace and a greater well being for all.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 12 2020 16:31 utc | 105

psychohistorian@103, thank you. I try to do as you advise with everything I read online, and have disagreed with nc on past issues and trends that have been promoted there. I appreciate your caution.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 12 2020 16:48 utc | 106

psychohistorian @ 102

As is spelled out in the latest Hudson link provided by karlof1, the West needs to return to the mixed economy of the Mesopotamia era

how quaint. why not go back a little further to the age of no money, of barter and cuneiform certification?

it's even been proven highly effective in times of monetary crisis,...at least the bartering part...

you know, help me build my house and i'll supply you with cooking oil.

Posted by: john | Sep 12 2020 16:58 utc | 107

Woops, bad grammar from me @ 106 - should have said "As I am an Orthodox Christian..." to provide separation from " the references...", (with which otherwise the opening phrase should connect.) Apologies!

Posted by: juliania | Sep 12 2020 17:00 utc | 108

@ john | Sep 12 2020 16:58 utc | 109 who does not have the decency of reading the link for context of my reference to Mesopotamia mixed economy.

A bit of a poor drive-by there john. Please do read the Hudson piece and try to keep up or you come off like a troll.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 17:19 utc | 109

jinn @95: "The elites worked very hard to portray Trump as the anti-establishment candidate going up against the corrupt establishment candidate."

This is irrational. The establishment IS corrupt. The establishment candidates ARE corrupt. If the establishment wants the American public to believe these things all they have to do is tell the truth. In fact, most of the American public believes that the establishment and its candidates are corrupt without the establishment having to tell them. The challenge before the establishment is not to expose their own corruption to the public, but to disguise it.

Let's try the used car salesman metaphor again: The scenario you are arguing for is that the used car salesman invited his card shark buddy over and told him to tell all the customers who show up "The car salesman is a corrupt thief and is trying to rip you off. He wants to overcharge you for a POS car that will fall apart the day after your 30 day warranty expires. Those commercials featuring satisfied customers? They're fake news, and those customers are just actors. Don't believe a word this guy says.

How does this help the used car salesman sell cars?

Shining a spotlight on the establishment's deceit and corruption is the last thing that the establishment wants, even if the one aiming the spotlight is corrupt and deceitful himself.

The establishment gets to choose the candidates. Try to explain clearly and logically what benefit you imagine the establishment sees in offering the public a candidate that appears to be opposed to the establishment itself for the voters to vote for. Please try to make your explanation make sense.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 17:24 utc | 110

@ 95 jinn
The elites worked very hard to portray Trump as the anti-establishment candidate
Trump is not anti-establishment?

US News Sep 7
Trump Again Raises Idea of Decoupling Economy From China

With the U.S. election approaching, President Donald Trump on Monday again raised the idea of separating the U.S. and Chinese economies, also known as decoupling, suggesting the United States would not lose money if the world's two biggest economies no longer did business.. . .here

Forbes Aug 30
U.S, China Decoupling “Unthinkable”: Forbes China Forum

Vast business ties between the U.S. and China and the overall success of American businesses in the mainland make decoupling of the two economies “impossible,” the head of a top Chinese think-tank said at the U.S.-China Business Forum organized by Forbes China on Wednesday. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 12 2020 17:54 utc | 111

Krugman knows clever formulations for everything, and the relative importance of nothing. That's why he rose to be an influential sought after commentator in American media.

Posted by: Xeno | Sep 12 2020 18:06 utc | 112

psychohistorian

aside from a little facetiousness, my comment was perfectly serious...even if i didn't make it through the piece.

...about the troll moniker...well, someone who's been coming here for literally years on an almost daily basis saying literally the same thing every time should be real careful throwing that term around.

Posted by: john | Sep 12 2020 18:09 utc | 113

@ john | Sep 12 2020 18:09 utc | 113 with the 2nd drive-by comment

You didn't read the Hudson link and seemingly are not here to discuss Krugman, economics or 911.....so why the ongoing drive-by?

What does it say about you that the example of Mesopotamia mixed economy is beneath your mental respect and interrogation?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 18:20 utc | 114

Kadath @Sep12 15:54 #100

"restorationist" vs. "globalist" elites

A distinction without a difference.

They both want to advance the Anglo-Zionist Empire.

In one technocrats (like Obama) argue for greater global integration with a happy face. In the other enforcers (like Trump) demand loyalty and play on people's fears.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 18:31 utc | 115

Kadath @Sep12 15:54 #100

"restorationist" vs. "globalist" elites

A distinction without a difference.

They both want to advance the Anglo-Zionist Empire.

In one technocrats (like Obama) argue for greater global integration with a happy face. In the other enforcers (like Trump) demand loyalty and play on people's fears.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 18:31 utc | 116

psychohistorian

i did discuss economics, albeit briefly.

why don't you spare me your pretentiousness?

Posted by: john | Sep 12 2020 18:36 utc | 117

William Gruff @Sep12 17:24 #110

Shining a spotlight on the establishment's deceit and corruption is the last thing that the establishment wants, even if the one aiming the spotlight is corrupt and deceitful himself.

... what benefit [do] you imagine the establishment sees in offering the public a candidate that appears to be opposed to the establishment itself ...?


Excellent question!

Firstly, as you've noted, many already believe that the establishment is corrupt. There's little harm is acknowledging that and turning it into something useful. What emerges in end will be the perception that Trump has reformed the establishment so that its more responsive to the needs of the people.

You already see this with the Democrats trotting out billionaires as candidates. Trump is also a billionaire. They are telling us that the problem isn't billionaires with too much influence, it's bad billionaires that don't do good things - sorta like: "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

But the immediate benefit of attacking the establishment that put him into power is that Trump - as populist hero - wins public support. That is absolutely necessary if the Deep State is preparing for unpopular actions such as a trade war that brings financial hardships or a shooting war that brings even greater hardship. And it's clear that is the direction USA/Empire is headed as Trump has already engaged in trade wars/sanctions and Cold War with SCO-aligned countries.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 18:55 utc | 118

psychohistorian @102: "I understand the GIGO concept but I don't think the elite paying the think tanks to develop these scenarios are that clumsy....they know what is at stake for them because they have been moving the levers of finance for centuries."

Except that they really are that clumsy. They start with assumptions about what the economy is that are fundamentally flawed. Right down at the nuts and bolts level, their basic understanding of the concept of economic value is flat out wrong. They imagine that value is a mutable property, metaphysical even, of items. They think this value characteristic of items in the natural world changes according to supply and demand in the market, but in fact value is an intrinsic characteristic of everything. The only way that the item's economic value can be changed is by applying human labor to the item (at least until sentient alien life shows up and integrates their economic activity with ours).

Try to remember back to 2008 when the derivative meltdown occurred. That meltdown left the very best and brightest of capitalist economic "theory" (it doesn't deserve the honor of being called theory; it is nothing more than religion) Alan Greenspan staggering about with a stunned, deer-in-headlights look and mumbling "This isn't possible!". Why? Because according to his (Chicago school) economic "theory" there was no legitimate reason for the bottom to fall out of the value of derivatives.

Those expensive and "infallible" think tanks and university economics departments are still consuming garbage to make their predictions with. Garbage still going In, Garbage still coming Out.

I've discussed the issue here before at length that this failure of understanding of economics arises from the need by the intelligentsia to refute Marxist analysis. In fact, the failure of all social sciences across the board and not just economics issues from the requirement that the researcher steers their conclusions such that they counter those of their benefactors' chief enemy, Marx. Since Marx's analysis was correct, economists hoping for salaries in the capitalist world have no alternative but to be wrong.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 19:06 utc | 119

In fact, most of the American public believes that the establishment and its candidates are corrupt without the establishment having to tell them. The challenge before the establishment is not to expose their own corruption to the public, but to disguise it.
____________________________

Yes. I agree the majority now believes that the establishment and its candidates are corrupt. In the age of the internet that something the establishment can't change no matter how much they might want to.
_______________________________
Shining a spotlight on the establishment's deceit and corruption is the last thing that the establishment wants, even if the one aiming the spotlight is corrupt and deceitful himself.
________________________________

That also sounds correct. But you already told us the American public believes that the establishment and its candidates are corrupt so obviously if they want to give the voters a candidate that has the appearance of not being corrupt that candidate will have to also appear to be anti-establishment. Of course, if this candidate is really working for the establishment he can be selective about where the spotlight gets pointed.

It is the very people that distrusted the establishment the most that make up most of the support for Trump. So now you have the weird situation that the same people who 20 years ago were screaming about Waco and Ruby Ridge and FEMA camps and the evils of govt are now voting and supporting this current govt.
_______________________

The establishment gets to choose the candidates. Try to explain clearly and logically what benefit you imagine the establishment sees in offering the public a candidate that appears to be opposed to the establishment itself for the voters to vote for.
_____________________________________

Yes the establishment chooses the candidates. The establishment chose Trump. As for the benefits establishment sees in offering the public a candidate that appears to be opposed to the establishment - how would I know what they see? I can see that it is happening. Just because I don't fully understand why it is happening doesn't mean I have to pretend it is not happening.

I have theories on what benefits the establishment sees, but the way I see the problem with speculating on why the establishment is doing the things it does is that once people come up with a theory on what they believe the establishment goals are those people start to disregard the facts that don't fit with their pet theory.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 12 2020 19:12 utc | 120

Jackrabbit @118: "[President being popular] is absolutely necessary if the Deep State is preparing for unpopular actions such as a trade war that brings financial hardships or a shooting war..."

Nonsense. "... the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." --Hermann Goering

A president doesn't need to be popular to launch a war, trade or otherwise. My demand was that the explanation be rational. That response was not. In any case, Trump is not that popular.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 19:20 utc | 121

@vk 22
Little known fact: Abenomics is actually Paul Krugman's policy

Interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks for that link also.

Population is the important qualification when talking about Japan's GDP "stagnation". The linked blog post points this out clearly, though does not present it in the graphs.

Here is Japan's real per capita GDP, and here is the same for US. Looking at it that way, Japan is doing all right. Better than the US in percentage growth, if you consider the different scales on the two graphs.

That does not excuse Krugman's steady stream of brainfarts, becoming a celebrity broke something in there...

Posted by: ptb | Sep 12 2020 19:34 utc | 122

sorry, Here is the corresponding graph for the US

Posted by: ptb | Sep 12 2020 19:35 utc | 123

jinn @120: "...now you have the weird situation that the same people who 20 years ago were screaming about Waco and Ruby Ridge and FEMA camps and the evils of govt are now voting and supporting this current govt."

Those people voted for the Bushes. Some even voted for Obama. This in no way explains validating and reinforcing the suspicions of those people by giving them a candidate that confirms their suspicions.

"I can see that it [establishment supporting Trump] is happening."

Except that is not what is happening. You are simply imagining that the establishment is cleverly trying to use reverse psychology to support Trump by pretending that they are opposing him, thinking that will get the anti-establishment types to support him. That isn't any kind of evidence except in your imagination.

At some point the establishment needs to reestablish it credibility and authority. Trump's presidency is leading them away from that goal. Running fake anti-establishment candidates one after the other will not get them there.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 19:39 utc | 124

sorry again, i need to take my time w/ these.
There is also an equivalent per-capita-GDP-in-constant-PPP-$ chart, that (PPP) is where one can say Japan does better than US.

Posted by: ptb | Sep 12 2020 19:40 utc | 125

@ William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 19:06 utc | 119 with his response...thanks

I agree that the current myth of capitalism is wrong but in its wrongness it is supplying power and control to the elite who continue to accumulate ownership of everything possible.

I agree that the attachment of value to all aspects of financialization is wrong but it is the game in play and speaks volumes to the power/control of the dominant financial meme.....global private finance is doing God's work, don't ya know..../snark

I still posit that the elite ownership of the tools of global private finance don't believe the religion they sit atop but keep it alive because it has been so effective at social control for centuries now. Look at the amount of misdirection that exists about our form of social organization with private finance at the core....why is it never discussed given the social implications all around us? We discuss everything else but the potential of public finance as a social utility.


And the uni-party in the US and its face people like Trump/Biden are all about the show for the masses....Trump as a TV personality was chosen because he is an effective grifter to the public along with being racist, womanizer, etc. which stokes enough social babble to keep the focus off important things going on behind the scenes.

It is a religion and faith based like you wrote and the elite have been playing the God hand forever and still are doing so quite effectively since you still seem to think they are "lucky" and/or the conflict we see has sides that represent the masses versus the elite....neither represent the masses do they?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 19:49 utc | 126

@ William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 19:06 utc | 119 with his response...thanks

I agree that the current myth of capitalism is wrong but in its wrongness it is supplying power and control to the elite who continue to accumulate ownership of everything possible.

I agree that the attachment of value to all aspects of financialization is wrong but it is the game in play and speaks volumes to the power/control of the dominant financial meme.....global private finance is doing God's work, don't ya know..../snark

I still posit that the elite ownership of the tools of global private finance don't believe the religion they sit atop but keep it alive because it has been so effective at social control for centuries now. Look at the amount of misdirection that exists about our form of social organization with private finance at the core....why is it never discussed given the social implications all around us? We discuss everything else but the potential of public finance as a social utility.


And the uni-party in the US and its face people like Trump/Biden are all about the show for the masses....Trump as a TV personality was chosen because he is an effective grifter to the public along with being racist, womanizer, etc. which stokes enough social babble to keep the focus off important things going on behind the scenes.

It is a religion and faith based like you wrote and the elite have been playing the God hand forever and still are doing so quite effectively since you still seem to think they are "lucky" and/or the conflict we see has sides that represent the masses versus the elite....neither represent the masses do they?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 19:49 utc | 127

@ William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 19:39 utc | 124 who wrote

"
You are simply imagining that the establishment is cleverly trying to use reverse psychology to support Trump by pretending that they are opposing him, thinking that will get the anti-establishment types to support him. That isn't any kind of evidence except in your imagination.
"

I am sorry but the latest outing of CNN leadership by Taibbi refutes your assertions...please read
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/tape-shows-ethically-cnn-chief-a

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 12 2020 20:02 utc | 128

William Gruff @Sep12 19:20 #121Nonsense. "... the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.

Well, since you mentioned Goering's famous quote, allow me to remind you that Hitler spent years building support before launching wars.

I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler. But Hitler's campaign to make Germany great again and Trump's campaign to make America great again have many similarities.

You propose that swaying the public can be quick and easy. It is neither.

=
A president doesn't need to be popular to launch a war, trade or otherwise.

But it certainly helps.

The US military believes that it lost the Vietnam War on the 'home front'. They do not want to repeat that mistake.

=
My demand was that the explanation be rational. That response was not. In any case, Trump is not that popular.

I sense that there's nothing anyone can say that will change your mind. In that regard, you join Don Bacon and Nemesis as recognized Trump/establishment apologists.

I know that you claim to be not for Trump and not for the establishment, but you do your best to discredit reasonable explanations of their behavior that paint them in a bad light. How dare we suspect our leaders of being sly and bold, and colluding for advantage!

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 20:04 utc | 129

psychohistorian @ 126:

"...
And the uni-party in the US and its face people like Trump/Biden are all about the show for the masses..."

It always impressed me, when I was learning about the US system of government, that each party professed some worthy traits, which the other one studiously avoided. So that, in choosing one it was always necessary to accept not so wonderful things about it, and you did have to choose at election time. I escape that sort of thing when I go grocery shopping - that is, I know which stores have better prices or better products, so I shop at four, having an idea which one stocks a quarter of the things I need and is not so good on the other three-quarters. But that takes time and most people don't have the time. We seniors do. I know when I was working, one-stop shopping was all I had the time or energy to do.

We are reaching some clarity on the political scene, I feel. Thanks to everyone, and especially b.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 12 2020 20:28 utc | 130

psychohistorian @126

I am not saying that the elites (and yes, the big private finance elites most of all) are morally wrong, though I think they are. I am saying that they are wrong in their understanding of how things work.

The private finance elites and the big business elites have been running things for centuries, this is true. But they have been screwing up for centuries as well. Some of the elites are evil and do things to hurt the rest of society on purpose, but most think they are doing the right thing. Doubtless asshats like Bezos think to themselves "Look at these idiots burning their cities down. They are so lucky to have me and my best buds handling global trade for them!" These people don't necessarily try to initiate wars because they like to kill but because they think that's what they need to do to make the world a better place. They are probably appalled when the jingoism their mass media spews causes some primate-level humans to go out and murder Sikhs. Their gangsters in the CIA probably disgust them... they're a "necessary evil".

But the wars and the hunger and the poverty go on and on anyway. That is success for the elites, that's failure.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 20:30 utc | 131

Re: jackrabbit 115

There is a huge difference, the Neoliberals demand war without end for global domination because their end-goal is a global integrated market where individuals are reduce to nothing more than interchangeable economic units. And I do mean interchangeable, the Neoliberal dream world would involve them having dissolving states boarders completely and moving whole populations from the economic region to another in order to address labour "imbalances" - but this means all existing politics, culture, language, laws, traditions and societies throughout the world, would have to be wholly obliterated and replaced with a new monoculture - a culture that the Neoliberal elites would create, define, manage; all for their economic benefit as they suppress labour wages (& power) worldwide.

The American Restorationists, despite their own flaws still recognize the importance of the state (and accordingly, the importance of history, culture and society). The American Restorationists will not put other countries first (especially rival countries, like Russia or China), but then no state should put another state's interests before their own. What matters is that the American Restorationists are not going to fundamentally redesign law, society and populations within the US. The may try that in other countries, but not in the US, but when other countries see how the American Restorationists act while in power, they will imitate them to the extent they are able to. This will mark the close of the globalist, Neoliberal era and a return to a more pre-1970s style of international relations

Posted by: Kadath | Sep 12 2020 20:30 utc | 132

William Gruff @Sep12 19:39 #124

... thinking that will get the anti-establishment types to support him.

Here you are distorting what is actually happening.

The "establishment" has been pigeon-holed as globalist, socialist, feminine (weak), destructive, and anti-Russian.

Yet Trump ...

  • ... isn't less globalist: he dances with Saudi Kings; hasn't brought home US troops; uses the world's currency as a bludgeon; and demands Europeans contribute more to collective defense.
  • ... isn't less socialist: he just believes in corporate socialism just like his predecessors. Under Trump, corporations have got reduced regulations, Wall Street and Boeing got bailouts, the military budge has seen YUGE increases, Big Pharma got billions of dollars in contracts despite their ignoring the HydroxyChloroquine treatment that Trump pretended to be in favor of (his endorsement was used as a kiss of death) but never actually demanded that it be studied.
  • ... isn't less anti-Russian: He hasn't made ANY progress toward peace with Russia even as he has picked fights with China and other nations.

<> <> <> <> <>

All the good PATRIOTS dupes willing/compelled to fight domestic enemies (BLM, "establishment" scoundrels like Biden) will easily be convinced to support/fight in a foreign war when the time comes.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 20:31 utc | 133

Should be: "That isn't success for the elites, that's failure."

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 20:32 utc | 134

Kadath @Sep12 20:30 #131

Once again, I disagree because I don't see much light between what you call the "restorationists" and the "globalists". They are both Empire First. One is simply more honest about that than the other.

And they are BOTH neoliberal, as well as neoconservative, and neocolonial (aka "Zionist"). Because Western elites, on the whole, are supremacist asshats. And these constitute today's supremacist creed.

Neoliberal: cater to corporations and oligarchs;

Neoconservative: anti-Democratic;

Neocolonial: anti-sovereignty, anti-Human Rights.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 20:40 utc | 135

Jackrabbit @128: "But it [presidential popularity] certainly helps [to start wars]."

At the cost of drawing attention to the men behind the curtain? No help is worth that much.

"How dare we suspect our leaders of being sly and bold, and colluding for advantage!"

Because incompetence, desperation, and confusion better explain their behavior.

Anyway, it is interesting to see you claiming that Trump is playing eleven dimensional chess. It would seem that your narrative is more Trump apologetics than is mine. I just think the guy is a garden variety narcissistic oligarch with decidedly modest intellect who ended up President by accident.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 12 2020 20:45 utc | 136

For those that haven't seen it. The Cheato in Chief when right on the verge of actually having a coherent thought was clowned by Netanyahu.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/book-netanyahu-showed-trump-likely-doctored-video-of-abbas-backing-child-murder/

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Sep 12 2020 20:50 utc | 137

The 'nakedcapitalism" website has published more bullmanure than there are atoms in the known universe.

Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 20:50 utc | 138

@ 62 karlof1... thanks for the link to the michael hudson article discussing Polanyi’s ideas.. i liked this quote - "That is why fraudsters seek to dismantle government’s regulatory ability whenever possible, using the hypocritical slogan of free markets." and i like this too ( the last statement) - "Behind today’s ‘free market’ advocacy is the power of financial wealth to appropriate the political, fiscal and central planning role that Polanyi, Marx and other socialists hoped to see expanded in the hands of democratic government. The resulting financialized market in property and debt instruments is the opposite of what reformers hoped to create a century ago. The financial takeover of government policy reflects a business plan of asset stripping and economy wide austerity.

This is not what either Marx or Polanyi expected. If it is where Western civilization’s financialized market dynamics are leading, it will be a replay of the collapse of antiquity as a collapse into feudalism." thanks for sharing that!

@ jackrabbit - william gruff.... i tend to see it like wg here jr - specifically - "How dare we suspect our leaders of being sly and bold, and colluding for advantage!"

Because incompetence, desperation, and confusion better explain their behavior." - i agree more with the last statement, then the first... i really don't think the leaders are that bright and cunning.. i am sorry.... i haven't followed your conversations closely and may have missed something...

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2020 21:41 utc | 139

To: james | Sep 12 2020 21:41 utc | 138

No. They are NOT incompetent. And they surely don't need no more money (they already have it all).

The simple truth is that they are SADISTS. The NEED to watch the 99% suffer. Why do you think they built the Roman Colosseum? Just for fun, maybe?

Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 22:00 utc | 140

As I said, in the end, Osama did really win :)

Posted by: BL | Sep 12 2020 22:01 utc | 141

further to my comment to jackrabbit and william gruff... listen to glenn greenwald being interviewed on tucker carlson today on the topic of trump , cia and etc...
3 and 1/2 minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrYN3e4sq8I

@ 139 blues... i agree trump is focused on money, like all the rest of the sychophants that have been running the usa of late... sadists makes sense... they would be showing some humanity if they were to pardon assange or snowden.. so maybe you are right about the sadistic part, but i don't think they are working together in all of this and i don't think they are all that bright.. if you subject others to this type behaviour, then you clearly aren't the brightest lightbulb in the box...

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2020 22:05 utc | 142

While the term "hate crime" is an affront to free speech and the rule of law, I agree that the Bush regime institutionalised war against Muslims, except when they were using the barbarian element Muslim fundamentalists against those hostile to the yankee imperium. Other than the use of that unfortunate term (hate crime) I pretty much agree with the posting, though one should also stress the anthrax false flag as an element ginning up the war fever, since it is almost a given that this was part of the effort confirming the war fever at the time, as I well remember.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Sep 12 2020 22:10 utc | 143

and to offer up an example of how good the russia gate koolaid tasted to a so called journalist, here is emptywheel on the same topic..
"Glenn’s case — made in an appearance that was transparently an attempt to lobby the President directly — wasn’t about journalism. It was about sticking it to the “tyrannical” civil servants in the Deep State™ who had the audacity to try to protect the country from Russian interference." ignorance is truly bliss apparently...

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2020 22:10 utc | 144

To: james | Sep 12 2020 22:05 utc | 141

This has nothing to do with Trump. At all.

Sadism is a real and powerful force, which gives us meaning.

I don't think you really know how this works.

Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 22:13 utc | 145

I forgot to mention that Krugman has become a typical controlled opposition fool and pathetic collaborator in many respects, including this one, as is revealed by the article. He has wasted his earlier fame as an interesting opposition economist to become a pathetic lackey of the power structure in economics and, as shown here, in imperialist policy.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Sep 12 2020 22:13 utc | 146

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2020 22:05 utc | 141
Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 22:00 utc | 139

They are dumb and greedy, mostly, greedy and needy; that combination has led vast armys of people to deny their fellow humans in need. Obsessives, obsessed with accumulation and status competition among themselves. If you watch them among their "peers" it's kind of obvious the same old court politics is at work. The problem is you cannot run a first class international power that way very long. They are and ingrown and self-appointed aristocracy, long since out of touch, full of themselves and little else.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 12 2020 22:20 utc | 147

I also should mention when I reacted negatively to the extra-legal term "hate crime" I should have made clear that the items Bernhard mentions were, in fact, real major crimes. It is just that the phrase used is one that has been abused. They were crimes which were similar but perhaps not as intense as most "crimes against humanity" which, since murder was not engaged in, they probably don't fit. In any event the actions were disgraceful violations of the rule of law which have led us into the present situation of the yankee imperium and its vassal states. Guantanamo, of course, represents its own level of continuing evil, and can be considered a crime against humanity in a way despite the absence of murder.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Sep 12 2020 22:22 utc | 148

gruff said:

Except that is not what is happening. You are simply imagining that the establishment is cleverly trying to use reverse psychology to support Trump by pretending that they are opposing him
________________________________________

No you misunderstand what I believe.
Trump is the one running the con. The establishment has agreed to go along with trump's con and continues to do so because it is working in their favor. The establishment agreed to go along because it has nothing to lose. If trump eventually falls flat on his face the establishment will say we have nothing to do with that guy - we told you he was a clown. But as long as the enormous tax cuts and huge military budgets and massive deregulation and the courts packed with pro business judges keeps coming the establishment will allow trump to run his con unimpeded.

Your position is just one big mass of contradiction.

You claim that the establishment picks the candidates and then you claim Trump got elected by accident. You were right the first time trump would have never have been close to being one of the 2 candidates without the approval of the establishment.

You claim that the establishment doesn't need the support of the populous and then you claim that trump is destroying their credibility with the populous. There is more than one contraction in those two thoughts. Is trump destroying the credibility of the establishment by appearing to oppose it? Or is he destroying it by being the face of the govt? Would the establishment have become more credible if Hillary had won?

The secret of trump's success looks to me to be that he can make just about anyone deranged. Take you for example, you obviously think trump is a moronic fool and yet you believe this moronic fool is causing the demise of the most powerful political forces on earth.
How is that rational?
You think Trump is something like Mr Magoo stumbling thru life but somehow becoming president. That is not rational. That is the substance of fairy tales.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 12 2020 22:27 utc | 149

Paul Krugman is a foremost spokesperson for the empire of chaos. He has always been. And I think that was part of the reasons he was awarded the corrupt Nobel prize.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 12 2020 22:37 utc | 150

@ 144 blues... i suppose i need to ask you who you mean by ""they"" in your post to me @ 139.... let me know and we can proceed.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2020 22:51 utc | 151

To: james | Sep 12 2020 22:51 utc | 150

By ""they"" I mean the about 2,000 guards who have all the money and run this prison. They are sadists. They like to watch the rest of us suffer. They have cameras everywhere.

That. Is just how the game is played.

If we are not playing, does not mean we are not playees.

Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 23:08 utc | 152

@ blues... continuing on... who are these 2000 guards you are referring to?? thanks.. your comments are a bit opaque to me.. maybe you'd like to explain more at length..

Posted by: james | Sep 12 2020 23:21 utc | 153

-// who are these 2000 guards you are referring to?? //-

The sadistic ones who possess about 200 million dollars worth, or much more, of stuff. They don't give it away to the hungry. Because they are, after all, Sadists. It's very simple, once you let it come to you.

Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 23:31 utc | 154

james @138--

Thanks for your reply and your choice of citations. What's becoming easier to do is compare/contrast Neoliberal behavior with that of the Collectivists in Eurasia to determine which side is winning or losing. One of the interesting issues visited in that essay is the role of hard money since it's hot again given the debacle deemed the fault of fiat money, all of which devolves to the question of why money is required for commerce and thus for living. In the grand scheme of things from a moral POV, is money as important as food, water, shelter and clothing? The answer you arrive at sets you on one particular path. Human societies have existed for @3 million years without needing money; but suddenly over the past @5,000 years money was needed for some agrarian societies. It must be noted that some agrarian societies cultivated their own medium of exchange and lived quite well without any sort of metallic money, nor did they see any reason to accumulate--what hierarchy that existed was based on merit and usually the socio-genetic system was some form of matriarchy. The point is there are other ways to construct a society that are far more equitable and moral--Thatcher's TINA was always a massive load of bunkum. The attempt to make everything conform to one set of rules was always for the convenience of those making the rules so they could reign over all--The Devine Right of Kings is the best known example; but as we see today, there are others. That's why the never ending wars against any possibility of a better example arising that shows it's better than the status quo. IMO, China's political-economy is superior and thus that Better Example, which is why it's now vilified and derided, lied, slandered, smeared, and libeled. The struggle's seen as existential by the Neoliberal Financial Parasites--and they're 100% correct. Lets hope they die before their host--that host being us.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 12 2020 23:42 utc | 155

jinn @Sep12 22:27 #148

Trump is the one running the con. The establishment has agreed to go along with trump's con and continues to do so because it is working in their favor.

No. You give Trump too much credit.

He has helped to develop the con. And he is executing it. But the Deep State is in control and runs the show.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 12 2020 23:44 utc | 156

When the oil and gas runs out --

It will be GAME OVER for homo sapiens.

Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 23:51 utc | 157

Wm Gruff @Sep12 20:45 #135

Because incompetence, desperation, and confusion better explain their behavior.

james @Sep12 21:41 #138:

i really don't think the leaders are that bright and cunning..

Well, they were cunning enough to kill JFK and get away with it. And bright enough to win the first Cold War with Russia. And competent enough to continue to direct trillions of dollars to MIL/MIC despite no need for that level of expenditure after the first Cold War.

They are such dumbf*cks ... and laughing all the way to the bank. LOL.

I'm not saying that they don't do some dumb things. I've been saying that the post-Cold War policy of 'shock therapy' was a strategic mistake. They really goofed on that AND at the same time they allowed themselves to be distracted by a 'war of choice' in Iraq that wasted a crazy amount of resources and exposed the US Deep State as warmongers. It was so bad they had "to the page" with Obama - and that blew up in their face because the Obama Administration was just lipstick on a pig.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 0:03 utc | 158

Wm Gruff @Sep12 20:45 #135

Because incompetence, desperation, and confusion better explain their behavior.

james @Sep12 21:41 #138:

i really don't think the leaders are that bright and cunning..

Well, they were cunning enough to kill JFK and get away with it. And bright enough to win the first Cold War with Russia. And competent enough to continue to direct trillions of dollars to MIL/MIC despite no need for that level of expenditure after the first Cold War.

They are such dumbf*cks ... and laughing all the way to the bank. LOL.

I'm not saying that they don't do some dumb things. I've been saying that the post-Cold War policy of 'shock therapy' was a strategic mistake. They really goofed on that AND at the same time they allowed themselves to be distracted by a 'war of choice' in Iraq that wasted a crazy amount of resources and exposed the US Deep State as warmongers. It was so bad they had "to the page" with Obama - and that blew up in their face because the Obama Administration was just lipstick on a pig.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 0:03 utc | 159

@ 153 blues... okay.. thanks for explaining that... you sound like you are talking about the 1% or something like that - who control the finances of the usa, or world... it is easy to think of them as sadists, but i doubt they would like the analogy...they figure they are playing a game of monopoly and they are better at it then others.. i don't know that they think about how they are hurting the planet.. i would call them ignorant of humanities plight, more then i would think of them as sadists, but i can see the connection... ignorance breeds a lot of painful offshoots... thanks...

@ 154 karlof1... i agree with what you have described, but i am a bit concerned about the last line... if they don't destroy the planet getting there way, i am more hopeful... why is it we could live for as long as we did and that it could work without this need for some to leech off others?? why can't we be content to have what we've been given and instead want to rule the world with power?? do people evolve from being predators to being able to see how we are in this together?? i would like to think there is a chance a predator could become more conscious, but i am not certain... it is like asking a cat to stop killing, or trying to kill birds... however, i do believe people have the ability to see beyond their simian brain and separate themselves from animals.... maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but i would like to remain optimistic... can this part of human nature - the predator part - transcend this and fit in with the rest of us?? i hope so.. thanks again for sharing that article!

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 0:11 utc | 160

@ jackrabbit... thanks... i think the number of dumb things they are doing at this point is altering the balance that they might have had.. again - i am hopeful, but i may be wrong and projecting what i would like, as opposed to what is... if this getting rid of trump is all for show, it isn't all that convincing to me... i think a good chunk of the antagonism is real enough... and, i can't imagine wanting to create more and more stress and animosity within the community all that helpful.. meanwhile it seems that china, russia and iran continue to move forward.. the sanctions don't seem to work... war is going to be ugly and it looks like it will be the last card that gets played when all other options like sanctions and threats run out... being blinded by an obsession with money is not a trait i hold in high regard... if their ignorance is that pronounced, i think they are in trouble here.. i think other forces are working towards a real cataclysm here.. i don't believe this is all under anyone's control... it would be like thinking all the fires affecting the westcoast of the usa are a byproduct of arson.. i just don't see it that way and i don't see what is happening on the world that way either... cheers!

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 0:17 utc | 161

-// Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone //-

Well I done casted the first stone and I got nuthin but sin behind me. What difference, at this point, does it make?

Posted by: blues | Sep 13 2020 0:37 utc | 162

To: james | Sep 12 2020 21:41 utc | 138

No. They are NOT incompetent. And they surely don't need no more money (they already have it all).
The simple truth is that they are SADISTS. The NEED to watch the 99% suffer. Why do you think they built the Roman Colosseum? Just for fun, maybe?
Posted by: blues | Sep 12 2020 22:00 utc | 139

You gat that right. It's beyond dispute. The Christian West is run by greedy mendacious sadists for whom too much money for themselves, and too much inflicted misery for everyone else, could never be enough.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 13 2020 0:38 utc | 163

Jackrabbit @Sep13 0:03 #157

Correction: "turn the page" with Obama

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 1:12 utc | 164

for the record, incompetence seems to be the word that some don't agree with, lol... it is in reference to the fact that as i see it, not all of this is a controlled demolition... others are welcome to see it differently... context is everything, but it is lost cherry picking one word...

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 1:31 utc | 165

@ Bemildred | Sep 12 2020 22:20 utc | 146... i meant to say i agree with you their... cheers.. better not use the incompetence word though, lol..

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 1:35 utc | 166

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 1:35 utc | 164

Well needless to say I don't think our leaders or plutocracy or billionaires or elites, whatever you wish to call them, are competent in any general way, they have certainly not been competent stewards of the public trust here. The DNC is competent at rigging primaries, for example. They are competent at working the levers of a corrupted system. I don't find that impressive. Lots of people have pulled that off at one time or another. They are competent at keeping everybody else down, woo hoo.

Are they up to the job of getting us out of the mess we are in? Not a chance. Can they restore our society again, make us once again an intellectual and productive force to be rekoned with? Not a chance. Personally, I like the idea of being an ordinary country again, being quiet and peaceful and unimportant.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 13 2020 3:02 utc | 167

@ barfly use of the word incompetence

While some see what the current leadership does as incompetence, their string pullers are laughing at you.

Is it incompetent for the current leadership to increase funds to the rich and decrease funds to everyone else?

Is it incompetent for the current and past leadership to have given financial derivatives super-priority position over other investments or doing what told?

Is what the current leadership doing in regards to the USPS incompetence or conscious dismemberment?

Commenters believing the current leadership is somehow stupid/incompetent instead of directed are short sighted, IMO

Is it incompetent to have lost or sold ones moral compass?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 13 2020 3:24 utc | 168

I agree with psychohistorian @Sep13 3:24 #166.

It's impossible to judge the Deep State/TPTB by the same metric that an ordinary person uses in normal life: morality, efficiency, greatest good, etc.

IMO they KNOW that they are screwing people but they believe in the maxim that the powerful do what they will and the powerless what they must.

Their need for control causes a zero-sum mindset. Thus, looting the middle-class isn't just about MOAR for themselves, it's also about starving the middle-class of resources that could be used to challenge TPTB.

Thucydides Trap is another example. Most of us would say: invest in your people! That's the best way to meet the challenge. But to the asshats with a war hammer, every 'rising power' looks like a nail.

They are VERY competent at staying on top and maintaining control over the population. It's not incompetence that end Empires, it's the hubris and paranoia that leads to mistakes that multiply.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 5:04 utc | 169

9/11 truth matters too:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0304375419898334

Posted by: Paul | Sep 13 2020 6:13 utc | 170

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 13 2020 3:24 utc | 166
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 5:04 utc | 167

Well, I'm almost done with this, would you agree they are incompetent as statesmen, they have been bad stewards of the public trust here in Exceptionalistan, and they are rightly losing the argument internationally to the Ruskis, the Chinese and any other non-pipsqueak enemies? Or do you think we are doing great here Uncle Sugarland? Kicking butt and taking names? They were stupid enough to think the Russians and the Chinese just wanted to be their sidekicks, get some of the crumbs. I think they are plenty stupid. They think everybody else is as corrupt as themselves.

In any case, thank you for engaging, I don't think we really disagree that much.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 13 2020 7:23 utc | 171

Bemildred @Sep13 7:23 #171

... would you agree they are incompetent as statesmen, they have been bad stewards of the public trust here in Exceptionalistan, and they are rightly losing the argument internationally to the Ruskis, the Chinese and any other non-pipsqueak enemies?

Yes I agree. These are true almost by definition because their primary aim is not to serve the people but themselves.

What we call "stupid" stems from their hubris, greed, and paranoia as a group. I'm not sure that it's possible for them to change. I think that they are already running out of lipstick for the pigs that keep multiplying. But when will the ignorant, divided sheeple take notice? People that would be super angry at getting short-changed at the local grocer readily accept being looted by an oligarch-owned neoliberal government.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 13:52 utc | 172

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 13 2020 13:52 utc | 172

Thank you. I generally consider that evil and stupid are intimately connected, take Trump for example, or Bush the Lesser. But the connection is not simple at all. I remember a story I read in Konrad Lorenz (I think) about pidgeons stuck in a cage together which, crowded, proceed to peck each other to death, or at least until there is only one. That kind of stupid.

Anyway, I would say we have a disagreement about nomenclature, not the situation.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 13 2020 14:54 utc | 173

@psychohistorian #103
The 2nd Bank of the United States was a public bank.
Public banking isn't a panacea either. I do agree that the pendulum has swung too far in the private banking side, but I have no illusions about how concentration of power/banking will have negative effects regardless of public/private status.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 13 2020 15:01 utc | 174

@ c1ue | Sep 13 2020 15:01 utc | 174 who writes that public banking is as bad as private.

How about if we give public banking w/o private banking a few centuries and see?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 13 2020 16:21 utc | 175

@ Bemildred | Sep 13 2020 3:02 utc | 167.. i agree with you in your post here as well.... good luck getting your country back... it is much the same in canada, but on a smaller scale...

@ 168 psychohistorian quote "Commenters believing the current leadership is somehow stupid/incompetent instead of directed are short sighted, IMO" they are directed, but still incompetent as i see it..

@169 jackrabbit quote " They are VERY competent at staying on top and maintaining control over the population. It's not incompetence that end Empires, it's the hubris and paranoia that leads to mistakes that multiply." hubris and paranoia is incompetence!! they may be competent at screwing you, but it ain't gonna last forever they way it is presently going...

@ 171 bemildred... what i admire about you is your receptivity.... the fact you ask in the form of a question shows this... thanks for your posts...

@ 173 bemildred quote - "Anyway, I would say we have a disagreement about nomenclature, not the situation." i think this is correct...

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 16:48 utc | 176

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 16:48 utc | 176

"what i admire about you is your receptivity"

Thank you. I like your style too. I think the truth is usually messy. Reality is like oatmeal, it has lumps in it. You have to pay attention. To get very precise answers, you have to ask very precise questions. Everybody has a piece of the truth, so I try to avoid dealing in personalities much, or getting too attached to my own ideas. "It ain't the things you don't know that gets you, it's the things you know that ain't so". :-)

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 13 2020 19:36 utc | 177

thanks @ belmildred... that is a good analogy - truth like oatmeal - has lumps in it~! best to avoid dealing in personalities and yes especially to not getting too attached to one's own idea - perhaps the most tricky part here... the saying in tao teh ching is ''the further you go, the less you know'' which i like to keep in mind...

Posted by: james | Sep 13 2020 21:41 utc | 178

The CIA trained hundreds of Jihadis imported through Saudi Arabia on main land USA for later ME usage – deniable cannon fodder. US Jeddah consular officer Micheal Springmann complained about this but was fired. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Springmann
Then 19 of them went unexpectedly “freelancing” on NYC airports.
For WTC7: a few others could have worked on the ground with explosives – they were trained for that. That building was 80% occupied by Salomon Brothers, 1?% CIA.
Straight after 9/11 all holding Saudi papers were flown out of the US, while anybody else was grounded. https://www.salon.com/2004/03/11/unger_1/

After the CIA hid their own Jihadi program on US main land even more, while the FBI hid their non detection of this Jihadi 9/11 plot..

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 14 2020 4:56 utc | 179

blues | Sep 12 2020 23:51 utc | 157

If we were to be so foolhardy that we burn all of the remaining oil and gas, we are going to get to witness (as a species) a real-time conversion of an abundant and bio-diverse planet into an uninhabitable (for humans) wasteland.

We would end up with ocean-level rises of anywhere from 30-70m, no polar ice-caps left (at all), temperature-rise of between 14-20degC (which will likely lead to wet-bulb temps being above 35degC; unsuitable for human habitation), complete collapse of large-scale agriculture on most of the Earths' surface, and potentially increased risk of large earthquakes and volcanism due to the changes in gravitational loading on the tectonic plates when all the ice melts.

Add to that the fact that if we go as a species, we are likely to leave behind thousands of nuclear sites that will leak, or go critical with untold consequences for the entire genetic make-up of the species that remain after we have gone.

If we are going to be so ignorant, selfish, and destructive, we had might as well just let all the nuclear weapons off now and just be done with our responsibilities to the only planet we have.

I will remain in my state of naive optimism, despite difficulties in its' justification, and look towards the outcomes that could turn it all around and create an eventual paradise on Earth.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Sep 14 2020 17:08 utc | 180

You think 9/11 was bad? Wait until you see the implementation of the covid bio-security state. 9/11 was the first installment. This is going to be the next level. After all. It "works" for Wuhan. They don't even need a vaccine. Wuhan Celebrations Covid Free

Posted by: goldhoarder | Sep 15 2020 16:35 utc | 181

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