Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 26, 2020
In Which We Debunk A Covidiot Pamphlet

On the recent open thread commentator ADKC quoted from a post at the corona-nonsense blog Off-Guardian. The piece, published last week, is an updated rehash of one the same author posted in April.

The more recent version is unfortunately no better than the old one. It repeats false numbers, is scientifically astonishingly inaccurate, and draws false conclusions.

It makes little sense to review and refute the whole mess. I will therefore concentrate on the 6 of the 8 "Take Home Messages" at the end of the piece which ADKC posted here:

1. Corona viruses are one of the viral agents of the common cold, which, just like the flu, invade the whole planet every year. They cause largely widespread, mostly benign, yearly pandemics of respiratory tract infections.

There are seven distinct corona viruses that infect humans. Four of those can cause the common cold. The infections are generally mild. At times they have more severe consequences like pneumonia. The infection fatality rate for these four corona viruses is estimated to be about 0.1%.

The three other corona viruses, SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2 are very different beasts. They cause very severe symptoms in a significant numbers of the infected people. The infection fatality rate for SARS was 9% and for MERS it is even 37%. The true infection fatality rate for SARS-CoV-2 depends on various circumstances (health service availability, social and medical conditions of the population etc.) but is currently estimated to be around 1%.

To mix up the four corona viruses that cause the common cold with the three viruses that have 10 to 370 times higher death rates is highly misleading.

Next point:

2. COVID-19, the infection caused by SARS-CoV-2, the current corona mutation, is not more lethal than the flu, with a 0.1-0.2% infection fatality rate.

This is a. outright nonsense that has no scientific basis and b. a lie.

SARS-CoV-2 is not a 'mutation' of some general coronavirus (there is none). Its nearest 'relative' is the RaTG13 virus known to be carried by certain bats:

Simplot analysis showed that 2019-nCoV was highly similar throughout the genome to RaTG13 (Fig. 1c), with an overall genome sequence identity of 96.2%.

Humans share some 96 percent of their genes with other primates. But no one would call a human to be a 'mutation' of an ape.

Evolution works through billions of iterative mutations until something unique evolves that fits to its environment. The surviving results of the evolutionary process are unique in kind. SARS-CoV-2 is a very special beast that is unique in its kind and effects.

Now to the bigger blooper in point 2: "is not more lethal than the flu, with a 0.1-0.2% infection fatality rate".

That is outright false and easy to refute. Just take a look at New York City which in April was hit hard during its first wave peak:



Source: 91-Divocbigger

The infection fatality rate for New York City can be easily calculated. Some 26% of the 8.3 million inhabitants of New York City now carry antibodies against the virus. Those 2.1 million who are seropositive must have had a SARS-CoV-2 infection. The officially reported Covid-19 caused death toll for New York City is some 23,000. However the more accurate total excess death toll beyond normal levels was 27,000.


Source: NYT, Sep. 23bigger

27,000 dead divided through 2.1 million infections gives an Infection Fatality Rate of 1.29%. That is ten times higher than the IFR number the Off-Guardian author claims.

New York City is special in that it is a high density city and has a diverse demographic with many higher risk groups living in relatively crowded quarters. But similar calculations can be made for other areas where sufficient data is available. Lombardy in Italy reported a higher IFR than NYC as did some areas in Spain. Other locations, with younger, more healthy people and better healthcare, will have lower infection fatality rates.

For the United States the general seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in blood donations is only 2%. More dubious estimates claim 8 to 9% overall seroprevalence in the United States. Let's be generous and assume that 10% of the 330 million strong U.S. population have already been infected. The current excess death count for the United States stands at 266,000. Those numbers (266,000/33,000,000) would give a (likely too optimistic) IFR of 0.8%. That is again far, far higher than the Off-Guardian author claims.

The next claim in the Off-Guardian nonsense:

3. An immense majority (95%) of fatal evolutions happen in old and frail individuals with premorbidities, with an average age of death at or above 80 years old.

That claim is again an outright lie:

Of the roughly 1.2 million American deaths that occurred between February 1 and June 17, almost 9% were due to coronavirus. The proportion of deaths due to coronavirus were about the same for each age group above 45 years. Below that, the proportion of deaths due to coronavirus fell dramatically.


Source: ACSHbigger

The numbers in the second column of the table show that only about half of the total Covid-19 fatalities, not 95%, were "at or above 80 years old".

As for "premorbidities" (being alive is btw one). Hypertension and obesity are named as co-morbidities for Covid-19 cases. The CDC says that 42% of all U.S. inhabitants are obese while some 45% have hypertension. But today these people are alive and reasonably well. Most of them have still several decades of life before them. If they were to get infected with SARS-CoV-2 and die, the virus, not their co-morbidities, would have caused their death.

On to the next Off-Guardian blooper:

4. Antibody studies, cross immunization with other corona strains and the completion of the death toll curve in many countries are strong evidence that the human population is developing herd immunity against SARS-CoV-2. In this context, a severe “second wave” for SARS-CoV-2 is improbable. We may rather expect a new cold episode from it just like every year, but of regular or even weak intensity thanks to the gained herd immunity.

Antibody prevalence even in hard hit place like New York City is way below the 80% or so that would be needed for some kind of "herd immunity". In the U.S. and Europe antibody prevalence is in total way less than 10%. The bay area for example has only some 2%. Is the U.S. ready to give 10 times more lives than the 266,000 who have already died of Covid-19 to achieve a only potentially temporary herd immunity?

Cross immunization with other corona viruses is a conjecture. We have so far no data that shows that there is cross immunity from other viruses that works against SARS-CoV-2.

(Recent data points in the other direction. Children have an innate immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and it protects them well. Every adult has been infected with dozens of different viruses while growing up. We adults have developed and show an adaptive immune response to SARS-CoV-2. This seems to work less well than the children's response. Instead of developing cross immunity through other infections our bodies seem to have learned something (pdf) from previous infections that makes it more difficult to counter SARS-CoV-2.)

The "improbable" second wave of Covid 19 is already developing in several European countries. Just take a look at France. And don't worry. The rise in the still low death toll WILL follow the infection curve with a four weeks lag.


Source: 91-Divocbigger

On to 'don't take home' message number 5:

5. PCR testing of SARS-CoV-2 presence does not give any reliable prognostic evidence of its infectious power and lethality. The monitoring of the pandemic state and evolution is given only by the daily evolution of fatalities. In Switzerland as in many other countries, there is no longer any excess mortality attributable to the COVID-19 pandemic. Positive test rate is low (around 3%), and tests have as always a technical false positive rate and react to inactive viral fragments or to other corona strains.

The author says that to evaluate the state of the pandemic we should follow the number (death) that is known to lag at least four weeks behind infections instead of following the number of new infections per day. That is lunatic. Its driving at high speed while only looking into the rear view mirror. During a highly dynamic pandemic we need current infection data and predictions, not reviews.

Also: SARS-CoV-2 PCR tests DO NOT react to other coronaviruses. The RNA strings they are reacting to are unique to SARS-CoV-2. The tests can not even 'see' any other ones.

On to point 6:

6. Only in a small percentage of COVID-19 patients, the SARS-CoV-2 virus may, like the flu virus, activate an immunological and inflammatory overresponse, causing at worst fatal pulmonary organ failure.

Stress and emotions like fear, anger and sadness may 1) stimulate this overresponse, 2) cause cell death in the emotional brain and 3) trigger therein deleterious overactivities, with resulting cell damages in body tissues.

General isolation, distancing and lockdown measures, by limiting social contacts, freedom and basic human rights, add to the death toll through an upsurge of psychosocial and economic destabilization, worsening of psychiatric and demented individuals and reduction of medical care to the whole population. We have thus a combined causality for an excess mortality of COVID-19, a significant part of it being not due to the SARS-CoV-2 virus itself but to the worldwide COVID-19 panic wave and the imposed introduction of drastic and inhumane measures.

That is the "Lockdowns kill" thesis that many covidiots use to claim that negative side effects of pandemic control measures outweigh their positive effects.

The thesis is wrong. Spain had a total lockdown everywhere between March 14 and May 9. It also had a lot of excess death. A large countrywide seroprevalence study showed where the most people were infected. That data is available on a granular and localized level.

BakuninsTraum @BakuninsT – 23:42 UTC · Sep 25, 2020

In the following, I have investigated how the seroprevalence of IgG antibodies in the different parts of Spain correlates with the associated excess mortality rate. /8

I used the results of this epidemiological study as a basis for my analysis:
link
I also used data from the following report on excess mortality:
link

The excess mortality is very different in various parts of the country: (pic) /10

The seroprevalence of IgG antibodies also varies greatly: (pic) /11

@BakuninsT finds that while all of Spain was under lock down only those locations who had high infection rates, and therefore now show high antibody seroprevalence, had excess death.

The regression lines show that the infections – excess death data correlates extremely well. High infection rates caused high excess death:


bigger

bigger

Those locations who were in lockdown but had few or no infections did not have any excess death.

BakuninsTraum @BakuninsT – 23:42 UTC · Sep 25, 2020

Conclusion:
The thesis that excess mortality is a consequence of a lockdown has been refuted. The regression line intersects the X-axis, i.e. there is no excess mortality where there are no infections. /16

I hope that ADKC and others who continue to post unscientific screeds from the Off-Guardian and elsewhere have learned a bit from the above. There are quite a number of authors with titles who have preconceived opinions and defend them even when that requires mangling the facts or to simply lie about the science. A professor emeritus of neurosurgery is unlikely to be the best available source for current virology and epidemiology facts. Don't fall for such 'experts'.

In the run-up to the war on Iraq "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." That is exactly what the piece we discussed above has done. It should not have been published. With respect to Covid-19 the Off-Guardian editors seems to replicate the Bush administration's lack of veracity.

Comments

add to 200
Self-certification of covid-19 tests within EU seems to be valid until May 2022.

Exceptionally, in the interest of protection of health, the Directive states that a Member State may, in response to a duly justified request, authorise the placing on the market within its territory of individual devices for which the applicable conformity assessment procedures have not been carried out yet (e.g. pending the completion of the device’s evaluation). In adopting such national derogations, the national competent authority of the Member State must carefully consider any risk against the benefit of having the device available for immediate use. The national processes for adopting these derogations vary across Member States

and – another factor that might explain high positives and few hospitalizations/deaths in September

For example, for RT-PCR tests, this could be the identification of stable target sequences (i.e. genetic fragments characteristic of SARS-CoV-2 virus to be detected). With every new patient infected, the virus may change (mutate) and these mutations inturn may render a particular test less effective, or even ineffective. It is therefore important that the mutation profile of the virus is monitored and that on that basis a particular RT-PCR approach is used.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 14:35 utc | 201

gm @175 wrote:
on UCSF physician Monica Gandhi’s hypothesis that mask wearing facilitates immunity development by limiting the viral innoculum load to the wearer,
____________________________________________________
That is one theory. What should be clear to everyone is that there is a lot of uncertainty about how any of this works.
What is unknown about masks is how much of the virus is blocked at the source (infected person) and how much is blocked at the destination (person not yet infected). It is also unknown if being exposed to a lower dose confers any immunity.
What should be obvious is that wearing masks does save lives. When you see that everybody in Hong Kong puts on a mask back in January and nobody in New York does and then you see 1000 times as many people die in NYC even though both cities are about the same size, that is overwhelming evidence that masks do work even if you don’t know exactly how it works.
Thanks for the link. it was informative.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 14:52 utc | 202

Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 14:52 utc | 202
Corelation is not causation. How about obesity as a risk factor? Compare Hongkong to New York?
Masks are another thing in this pandemic that is neither standardized nor tested. Cotton, silk, plastic, medical mask? Whatever.
Do thin people need less oxygen?

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 15:10 utc | 203

Corelation is not causation. How about obesity as a risk factor? Compare Hongkong to New York?
________________________________________
How about you do the research. Its your wild ass theory.
I’m pretty sure you won’t find that there are 1000 times as many fat people in NYC than in HK. In fact I doubt you will find there even twice as many obese people in NYC.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/2121831/half-young-hongkongers-now-overweight-or-obese
I suspect that considerably more healthy people with zero commodities died from Covid in NY than all the deaths in HK.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 15:42 utc | 204

“We have a pandemic of unregulated tests.”
Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 6:42 utc | 192
Everything BUT what would likely be the most useful test for real-time case monitoring and epidemiological tracking of the current Covid pandemic: a simple rapid antigen (home pregnancy type test) test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_antigen_test
such as that advocated by Harvard epidemiologist Michael Mina, well within present medical technology.
Not as complex or sensitive as rt-PCR. Detects antigenic viral surface protein fragments that are present in body fluids at measurable levels only during the active proliferative stage of nCov2 infection, according to Dr. Mina.

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 15:52 utc | 205

Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 15:42 utc | 204
Might be anything, really. Masks in Hongkong seem to have been used partly because of tear gas, so maybe tear gas kills the virus.
Concerning comorbidity – Hongkong had a life expectancy of 84,68 in 2017, New York of 81.2.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 16:01 utc | 206

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 15:52 utc | 205
We would still need to know what amount of virus particles makes it infectious and if the mutations in circulation cause pneumonia as in the beginning of this year.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 16:05 utc | 207

@ somebody… i see you have moved over to using the time stamp to communicate – somebody | Sep 29 2020 16:05 utc | 207
it’s a good idea to adopt that given how b deletes posts and the numbers change… those who only use the post number are seen talking to themselves in this thread!

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 16:30 utc | 208

“I suspect that considerably more healthy people with zero commodities died from Covid in NY than all the deaths in HK.”
Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 15:42 utc | 204

Obesity- More than half your population being OBESE is a serious health crisis with profound psychological problems as well. Vaccines may not even work with obese people.
Covid, as we have been factually told, preys on those with pre-existing health conditions. Obesity often comes with multiple health problems. America should have a higher fatality rate comparable to having a high obesity rate. Ignorance regarding obesity as a serious health problem compounding the potential fatality rate getting covid equates “handling” the virus poorly?
Again the stunning hypocrisy regarding massive (pun) problems like obesity and other “first world” American health problems are being completely overlooked. Lots of preventable deaths from obesity and war that society turns a blind eye to, better wear your mask to save lives though. “we’re all in this together” is fraud.
HK comparison? “HK handled the virus bettererer, HK protesters were bestist” HK for Nobel Peace prize !
https://khn.org/news/americas-obesity-epidemic-threatens-effectiveness-of-any-covid-vaccine/

Posted by: CitizenX | Sep 29 2020 16:52 utc | 209

“Concerning comorbidity – Hongkong had a life expectancy of 84,68 in 2017, New York of 81.2.”
Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 16:01 utc | 206
A better comparison Re: mask-wearing and other response factors might be Japan vs US.
Japan: Large percentage of urban population, living in high density housing even at the village level (compared to US), often in multigenerational family living situations; very high usage of crowded urban and interurban mass transit; near-universal mask usage in public.
On the other hand, Japan had *no* mandatory/formal shutdowns of shops, restaurants, pachinko parlors or most businesses, aside from making guidelines re: social distancing/occupancy limits (Tokyo did/does institute informal but more stringent [read ‘intimidation and shaming’] measures to restrict sex related/hostess club business activities after covid clusters popped up in certain districts).
Japan also did very little rt-PCR testing 15.5K/1 million pop, compared to US 316K tests/1 M pop.), or Germany (187K tests/1M).
Result: Japan cumulative deaths as 0f 9/27 (per Worldometer): 12 deaths/1 million pop; US (also UK): 632 (UK 618) deaths/1M [much higher in NYC]; Germany:114 deaths/1M; Sweden: 129 deaths/1M pop.

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 17:27 utc | 210

@ CitizenX | Sep 29 2020 16:52 utc | 209… just as we break down countries along certain lines and characteristics, i think one also has to do this within the country itself… i think jinn might be correct by suggesting a higher percentage of non obese people live in new york city itself…i think that is what jinn was implying, but perhaps they can come back and comment.. i don’t have stats on it, but it wouldn’t surprise me.. regarding obesity and the usa – that is all obviously true..

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 18:07 utc | 211

@ gm | Sep 29 2020 17:27 utc | 210… today at this site – https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries it shows sweden at 528 deaths per million.. your other details are fairly close to the same on this site… is there a reason your data on sweden is skewed?? thanks..

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 18:10 utc | 212

@ gm | Sep 29 2020 17:27 utc | 210 .. my post to you might show up later… at any rate at worldometers the data on sweden is 528 per million… all your other data seems fair close to the same and accurate.. is there a reason your data on sweden is skewed?? thanks…

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 18:11 utc | 213

@Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 18:11 utc | 212
You are correct, 582 deaths/1 M pop. for Sweden. Thanks.
My error. I mistakenly grabbed the value from the next row down, which is the average covid death rate/ 1M pop for the entire world, as compiled by Worldometer.

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 18:41 utc | 214

jinn might be correct by suggesting a higher percentage of non obese people live in new york city itself.
__________________________________________
What I suggested is that even if 90% of the deaths were people with a comorbidity that means there was still a couple thousand deaths in New York that were perfectly healthy people. Compare that to Hong Kong where only about 100 have died. Everywhere you find a population where they are wearing masks you find low numbers of covid deaths . Taiwan, Viet Nam, Japan etc – they all wear masks.
Studies have been done with hamsters which also get infected with Covid. There is a direct correlation with dose and morbidity. If given a small dose none die. If the dose is increased some die. If they are given a large enough dose they all die.
The evidence that masks are effective is so overwhelming that it is hard to believe people are arguing against it.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 215

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 17:27 utc | 210
The Japanese universal mask wearing is a myth – see Japan rush hour – they do it for politeness when they have got a cold.
Japanese people tend to have an extremely healthy lifestyle, a first class health system controlled by the state (not pharma) and a life expectancy of 84 which is top of the world.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 216

@Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 215
If you look at the the time stamps on the google images I think you would find many if not all are pre-pandemic.
Based on what I have been seeing on recent NHK travel shows, you-tubes from Japan, and spouse’s streaming Japan TV package, most everyone is still wearing masks in public, even in the hinterlands like Iwate and Aomori prefectures.

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 19:19 utc | 217

Let’s play a game. Take a drink for everyone you see at Shibuya Crossing without a mask. somebody, on the other hand, has to drink for every masked pedestrian.
Just so the ones looking for maskless people don’t go thirsty, you can cheat and drink whenever you want.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 29 2020 19:28 utc | 218

thanks gm..
@ jinn | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 214.. thanks jinn.. yes, i got that from your post and it is probably good to repeat it again for others who seem to want to ignore it!
@ somebody | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 215… yes, the japanese may be doing things just to be polite, as opposed to jumping up and down and screaming over the potential loss of their civil liberties.. either way you slice it the differences between japan and usa with regard to covid are very stark for anyone paying attention!

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 19:58 utc | 219

somebody | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 215
I agree with you about the first class Japan health care system (of which I have experienced firsthand) and overall healthy lifestyles and fitness habits of Japanese people.
But isn’t this also true of Sweden? It is my understanding that they also have a great and freely accessible medical care system, high overall fitness levels, life expectancies, and are socially reserved and not generally prone to the drinking/bar-crawling culture to the extant that the US and many other European countries are.
So what do you ascribe as the reason why Japan’s Covid death rate is only 12 per 1 million while Sweden’s is almost 50x higher: 582 deaths/ 1M pop., nearly as high as the US’s Covid normalized death rate?

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 20:18 utc | 220

Posted by: jinn | Sep 29 2020 18:59 utc | 214
As I said – corelation is not cause.
I just looked: In Korea and Japan rising positive tests corelate with rising covid-19 death this autumn. They are still doing very well but may not in the end if this trend continues.
Contrary to Europe where the rising number of positive tests do not corelate with hospitalization and death.
Do masks prevent immunity?
We don’t really understand our immune systems. If I assume that the intelligence is with immune cells and not with the dead RNA of a virus, the reproduction and mutation of the virus is a way of communication between human immune systems that drives evolution. We simply don’t know.
What I am sure of is that social distancing and not breathing are unnatural behaviour.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 20:24 utc | 221

Jinn “The evidence that masks are effective is so overwhelming that it is hard to believe people are arguing against it. ”
The NEJ of Medicine study indicate that the masks spread the virus with a reduced viral load
So when you claim masks are effective, what exactly do you mean?
They do NOT seem to be effective at stopping the spread, 9as has been claimed) in fact they seem to facilitate the spread albeit with a reduced load.
And yes, I read the New England Journal study- the one I left the link for.
And the information from the cruise ships looks to validate the contention that the masks spread the virus.
This was known during the 1918 pandemic as well. The masks failed and the virus spread.
So, if you wish to claim the masks are effective and overwhelmingly so at spreading a reduced viral load, that seems to be born out by at least one study
If you wish to claim the masks are effective and overwhelmingly so at stopping the spread of the virus- you’re mistaken.

Posted by: R Rose | Sep 29 2020 20:25 utc | 222

Posted by: gm | Sep 29 2020 20:18 utc | 219
Obesity?
Do you realize what stuff they eat? :-))
But no, life expectancy is not as good but similar to Japan. So my guess would be climate. UV-light destroys Sars.
It would also explain why Europe was ok during summer. Let’s hope sars-cov-2 has mutated to sniffles by now.
The truth is, it all depends on the tests and the way deaths are declared to be covid-19 and not something else. This is not comparable between countries, as the tests, testing methods, and the way statistics are done are different.
The only sure measure is excess mortality. Quite a few countries in Europe had virtually none including Sweden which presumably will not be worse off than 2018 at the end of the year.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 20:43 utc | 223

somebody @222
“The only sure measure is excess mortality. Quite a few countries in Europe had virtually none including Sweden which presumably will not be worse off than 2018 at the end of the year.”
Wow! That I did not expect!
In the UK there were no excess deaths until the lockdown started. Most of the excess deaths seemed to happen in Care Homes with the result that there is a suspicion that a cull happened (this is a view which, to my surprise, has been expressed to me by normally non-policitally engaged people) – this is why there could be a lot of problems if there is a second lockdown.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 29 2020 21:13 utc | 224

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 29 2020 21:13 utc | 223
People in the UK are probably right. In Germany there is suspicion that the spikes in deaths were caused by medical trials expecially by high doses of hydroxychloroquine
This here is Britain’s Recovery trial.
Professor Landray of the above trial gave an interview to France Soir

FS : How did you decide on the dosage of HCQ ?
ML : The doses were chosen on the basis of pharmacokinetic modelling and these are in line with the sort of doses that you used for other diseases such as amoebic dysentery.
FS : Are there any maximum dosage for HCQ in the UK?
ML : I would have to check but it is much larger than the 2400mg, something like six or 10 times that.
There is no approved dose for Covid patients because it is not approved for use in Covid patients.
FS : Are there any doses considered lethal for HCQ in the UK by the MHRA?
ML : The treating doctors did not report that they thought any of the deaths were due to hydroxychloroquine. For a new disease such as Covid, there is no there is no approved dosing protocol. But the HCQ dosage used are not dissimilar to that used, as I said, in for example amoebic dysentery.
FS : and is HCQ lethal?
ML : first of all we did not see any increase in deaths on day one when the dosing was greatest. Nor do we see any increase in deaths overall in the HCQ versus the control cell. In the study, one in four patients that got to hospital died, either in the HCQ cell or in the control cell.
This is a drug that doesn’t reduce the risk of death.

France Soir did a follow up on the hydrochloroquine high dose and came up with this

Therefore, we have to continue searching why Martin Landray told us “that the chosen dosage is in line with the dosages used for other diseases such as amoebic dysentery”. Reading our interview, Professor Peronne said:
In 1975, when I did my medical internship at the Claude Bernard hospital, which was the temple of infectious diseases, I saw a lot of amoebiasis and chloroquine was no longer used to treat that disease. It is the first time that I learn that we use hydroxychloroquine in amoebic dysentery, in super-toxic doses for humans.
The classic treatment for colonic amoebiasis is the hydroxyquinoline combination of tiliquinol and tilbroquinol, the trade name of which is Intetrix. The capsules contain 50 mg of tiliquinol and 50 mg of tilbroquinol. Dosage: 4 capsules per day.
I think he confused hydroxychloroquine with hydroxyquinoline.
“This man, who calls himself a doctor, is incompetent and dangerous.” This is scandalous.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 21:55 utc | 225

So, if you wish to claim the masks are effective and overwhelmingly so at spreading a reduced viral load, that seems to be born out by at least one study
_______________________________________
Common sense should tell you that much.
The evidence suggests that reducing the viral load that is spread reduces deaths and the severity of cases and the number of cases. It may even lead to increasing the immunity in a population.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 30 2020 0:11 utc | 226

@Posted by: somebody | Sep 29 2020 20:43 utc | 222
Obese Swedes? Don’t they ride around on bikes everywhere going to and from work and shopping, and work out in the gym all winter long to keep in shape for the bikini teams? Surely they are not classifying obesity in Sweden by the same yardstick used to (literally) measure us fat Americans.
And as to the Japanese diet and cuisine today, it is not all pretty-looking, low-fat arrangements of raw fish, veggies, seaweed and rice. There are a lots of deep-fried meats and starchy tempura eaten, and many western style dishes containing dairy, starches and fats, ie. au gratin potatoes, are also consumed. This is leading to a growing issue of metabo [metabolic syndrome, ie. obesity] among the Japanese population.
Finally there is also a largely under-reported, by western sources, but not-infrequently consumed “weird” category of traditional Japanese comfort foods and bar/izakaya fare, including skewered/grilled innards and bits from many kinds of fish, fowl, and multilegged/no-legged creatures, and several kinds of aged/fermented fish (funazushi (carp), kusaya (mackerel)) that easily rival Swedish fermented herring and lutefisk on the disgust-o-meter.
So I wonder after all if the present Japanese diet/lifestyle is really so much different from that of Sweden…

Posted by: gm | Sep 30 2020 1:27 utc | 227

Posted by: gm | Sep 30 2020 1:27 utc | 227
I agree. And neither Japan nor Sweden will have excess mortality at the end of this year. Different labels on different illnesses don’t make a difference in the overall count.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2020 9:07 utc | 228

Covid-19 and France’s government response to it has caused the biggest rise in poverty since the end of World War 2.People who always were capable to provide their own subsistance are now turning to Secours Populaire,Secours Catholique,Restaurants du Coeur,their creditcard are not functioning anymore,they are hungry and they are ashamed to admit their social downgrading.

Posted by: willie | Sep 30 2020 10:55 utc | 229

Posted by: jinn | Sep 30 2020 0:11 utc
“The evidence suggests that reducing the viral load that is spread reduces deaths and the severity of cases and the number of cases. It may even lead to increasing the immunity in a population. ”
But the claim has been, including here, that the mask stops the virus from spreading. This is not the case.
You are acknowledging then the mask does not stop the spread of the virus?
Yes or no?

Posted by: R Rose | Sep 30 2020 11:06 utc | 230

But the claim has been, including here, that the mask stops the virus from spreading. This is not the case.
You are acknowledging then the mask does not stop the spread of the virus?
Yes or no?
__________________________________________
R Rose @230
You are trying to play word games.
What I said is proper English you should be able to understand it without changing it into something I did not say.
The evidence suggests that masks worn by the entire population in public can reduce the number of deaths and the severity of cases and the number of cases.
If you look at the numbers from Hong Kong and New York City they suggest that it is about 99.95% effective at reducing deaths (if mask wearing were the only difference between the two cities). All else being equal, you would have expected that HK would have fared worse than NYC since there is a direct daily high speed rail connection between Wuhan and Hong Kong and therefore NYC had more time to prepare.
Is wearing masks 100% effective? No and anybody who says that, is misrepresenting their effectiveness.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 30 2020 13:05 utc | 231

Posted by: jinn | Sep 30 2020 13:05 utc | 231
As tests are not standardized and cannot be compared there is simply no evidence.
If New York does 40 multiplications in their PR tests and Hongkong 10, Hongkong will be Covid-free and New York will have everybody dying from Covid.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2020 14:45 utc | 232

@ 1pointO618 | Sep 30 2020 15:49 utc | 234…it appears you’re not very good at reading comments or getting messages… but it is also clear you have an agenda… good luck with that… most folks here see thru it too..

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 15:58 utc | 233

jinn @ 231;
The word games were yours- I wanted simplicity. Just a straightforward answer. Which you provided.
Thank You

Posted by: R Rose | Sep 30 2020 16:40 utc | 234

Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2020 14:45 utc
As tests are not standardized and cannot be compared there is simply no evidence.
If New York does 40 multiplications in their PR tests and Hongkong 10, Hongkong will be Covid-free and New York will have everybody dying from Covid.
———————————————————-
I’m at a loss to understand why it’s so difficult for some to grasp the problems with the PCR test?
Can they accurately detect the presence of some aspects/ pieces/remnants of a virus- yes
But that doesn’t inform us if this is a “case” of Covid or merely a positive test result
This does not inform any one if the positive test indicates if the person is contagious or even ill
The PCR test does not tell us how long ago the person may have been exposed to covid- ten weeks prior?
Hence all the false positives
It’s just not that hard to grasp.
I’d seen an article, NYT’s perhaps citing the different cycles used by different nations..
and the issues with the excessive cycling
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
“This number of amplification cycles needed to find the virus, called the cycle threshold, is never included in the results sent to doctors and coronavirus patients, although it could tell them how infectious the patients are.
In three sets of testing data that include cycle thresholds, compiled by officials in Massachusetts, New York and Nevada, up to 90 percent of people testing positive carried barely any virus, a review by The Times found.
On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing.”

Posted by: R Rose | Sep 30 2020 16:50 utc | 235

From b’s article:
“2. COVID-19, the infection caused by SARS-CoV-2, the current corona mutation, is not more lethal than the flu, with a 0.1-0.2% infection fatality rate.
This is a. outright nonsense that has no scientific basis and b. a lie.”

Counter from Facts about Covid-19:
“According to the latest immunological studies, the overall lethality of Covid-19 (IFR) in the general population ranges between 0.1% and 0.5% in most countries, which is comparable to the medium influenza pandemics of 1957 and 1968.”
…and…
“Studies on Covid-19 lethality”

Posted by: ADKC | Oct 1 2020 11:19 utc | 236

The best mask (3M) cannot stop particles smaller than 300 nanometers (0.3 microns).
It’s like trying to stop flies with chicken wire…
If you’re still not convinced, here you find links to peer-reviewed research which concludes face masks are useless and dangerous
Mask harm:
Decreased oxygen intake (PubMed)
Increased toxic CO2 uptake (video 1 below)
Increased inhalation of toxic chemicals from the mask
Increased pathogen intake: the moist and warm mask fibers are an ideal breeding ground for pathogens.
CO2 measurements inside a mask. [full screen]
Panel of 100+ doctors vote masks to be unnecessary and harmful

Posted by: Jose | Oct 1 2020 11:42 utc | 237

From b’s artcle:
“5. PCR testing of SARS-CoV-2 presence does not give any reliable prognostic evidence of its infectious power and lethality…
The author says that to evaluate the state of the pandemic we should follow the number (death) that is known to lag at least four weeks behind infections instead of following the number of new infections per day. That is lunatic…”

…and b @182:
“The technical false positive rate of PCR tests is practically nil.”
This is where I believe that are mistaken; the number of cycles matter and the current number of cycles (45 spins) is understood to be too high for meaningful results:
“Most tests set the limit at 40, a few at 37. This means that you are positive for the coronavirus if the test process required up to 40 cycles, or 37, to detect the virus.
Tests with thresholds so high may detect not just live virus but also genetic fragments, leftovers from infection that pose no particular risk — akin to finding a hair in a room long after a person has left, Dr. Mina said.
Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive, agreed Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside. “I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive,” she said.
A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35, she added. Dr. Mina said he would set the figure at 30, or even less. Those changes would mean the amount of genetic material in a patient’s sample would have to be 100-fold to 1,000-fold that of the current standard for the test to return a positive result.”

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (New York Times)

Posted by: ADKC | Oct 1 2020 12:26 utc | 238

A bit late, but temptation is just too much… We can agree that CoroanVirus may lead to Covid 19. Just like tetanus bacilus leads to tetanus poisoning and terrible daeth. So do bacteria. However, for tetanus there is treatment, a ‘vaccine’ often given after the fact. For bacteria we have antybiothics. For Covid 19, there is a treatment – CloroChinine plus Zince and few more simple things. All listed, tetanus baccilus, pathogenic bacteria and Covid 19 – there is a tretment for each of them. Of course, applied in time.
AT the beginning of Covid scare, we did notknow much about the virus, nor about the desease, So OK, first wave of lockdown, we can live with. But now, when a) there is a cure b) virus strength is down (it kills less and less even if positive tetss go up) it does not seem to make much sense, just about everywhere in the world.
I turned 60 in the peak of virus – March this year – so I am qualified to be scared, right? And I know peopple who had Covid 19, a few months before the panic – my parents, 87 and 92 years of age. It was horrible. We were all afraid they could die. Yet, they did not. Still alive and kicking. I also had a friend who died in March, 72 years old, in a Covid hospital, with all symptoms of Covid – clogged alveolee in both lungs, been on oxigen, ventilator. Oh, he claned snow from his backyard, got a cold, then spend 10 days at home withouit treatment – was scared to go out for catching corona. He died. During his 10 days in hospital he was tested for the virus, before and after death, sevral times, almost daily, and all tests came negative. Thi is not to say even negative tests lead to the ilness and death. This means tests are crappy tools for dianosing Covid 19.
I have a colleague at work, 40+, got ill while in quarantinee, both husband and wife. All symptoms were there, even chest pain for husband. when hospitals were called, they were told to stay home, not to come. That was in April. To this day they were not allowed to be tested. The lady developed some fobia, never went out of the apartment since then. Sure she works from home just fine, they have no kids, just two of them.
I spent two weeks quarantined in Rome, Italy last month, withnessed really stupid measure: masks mandatory in public spaces, indoors and outdoors, regardless of number in a group, 1 person is a group of one. The catch – the emasure is mandatory frorm 6 PM till 6 AM tomorrow, 6AM to 6PM, in daylight, masks optional. Is the virus more dangerous at night? Bars and pubs open till 10 PM, when virus is inactive. After 10 PM virus comes to life, hence bars and pubs closed after 10 PM (UK?)
Points to take: any further lockdown is not right. With so many contradictory measure, people would be dying on the streets, yet they are not. Otherwise, let’s be permannetly lockedm for bacteria and tetanus too. Salmonella? God forbid, shut the meat plants, do not eat green salad, same for pathogen starins of echerichia.
I refuse to be called a Covidiot. Rather, he who does not see all stupid and contradictory measeure, and the results are pretty much the same all over the world, even doing nothing (Sweden) has the same results, worse tahn Norway, yet better than Beligium and Netherland, Spain, France, Germany… Who is idiot and insane here?

Posted by: a_ddk | Oct 3 2020 21:35 utc | 239

This piece from the Off-Guardian seems well written and addresses individual points from your article. I’d like to see your response. A point by point response and not an ad-hominem attack.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/16/__trashed-2/

Posted by: Donnie | Oct 16 2020 17:41 utc | 240

What a pathetically poor article. Turns out “B” stands for Bedwetting CovidCoward with no Brain.

Posted by: CalDre | Oct 18 2020 14:22 utc | 241

Forgot to add – this COVID-Coward Bedwetting Brainless “The Sky is Falling” hysterical Communist emotional, MSM-worshiping hit-piece has been utterly debunked as the Cowardly Bedwetter Face Diaper loving piece of yellow-bellied, totalitarian-loving garbage that it is:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/16/__trashed-2/

Posted by: CalDre | Oct 18 2020 14:26 utc | 242

Posted by: CalDre | Oct 18 2020 14:26 utc | 242
Elaborate strings of insults do not actually constitute an argument, they are just insults. Knightly needs to get that through his head too, he likes the snide remark and cherry=picked “fact” as much as anybody. I tried reading there for a while, but when he went all in on the mask bullshit I gave up.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 18 2020 16:17 utc | 243