Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 29, 2020

Election Debate

Anyone watching the presidential election debate tonight?

Wrong time zone for me but if you do please leave your impression in this thread.

And don't follow Matt Taibbi's debate drinking game rules. You would likely end up totally drunk after just 30 minutes and permanently ruin your health :-).

Posted by b on September 29, 2020 at 20:00 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Well, This was a strange post!! b, is this you?

Posted by: Alpi | Sep 29 2020 20:10 utc | 1

re: drinking game rules

Omg that's brutal, even for Taibbi. Guess I'm not the only one who finds this a profoundly depressing moment

I agree about the not drinking. If you must watch it, a way to make it less viscerally painful is just turn off the sound. Put on closed captioning if you must, better yet, just mute it and listen to something else entirely, and score points based on body language.

I want to see Taibbi and someone do the MST3K version of this event, but they care too much and will be busy watching it for real. Oh well.

Posted by: ptb | Sep 29 2020 20:23 utc | 2

If it's all the same, I'll forego the debate and just imbibe while arranging a BBQ Surf & Turf since we're being assaulted with Indian Summer weather. I will make one allowance to their age and listen to the Vinyl Rock Sirius/XM music station for the evening since both remind me of seriously warped records from having spent too much time in the sun.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 29 2020 20:24 utc | 3

Debates are about as useless as a bathing suit contest. I know the records of both individuals, what sort of rubbish and ghost-written platitudes and one-liners they come up with onstage I don't care. I don't care if Biden comes across as a drooling moron or has a good night and comes across as another George W. Bush (the advantage of senility: the bar is low). Team Biden will do exactly what they have done for the last 50+ years, stab the American working class in the back for money while mouthing sweet nothings about 'caring.' Trump will provide an amusing spectacle and say all sorts of things but mostly the staff round him will toe the establishment line when it comes to real policy.

In the old days the three laws of journalism when evaluating a politician were: look at the record, look at the record, look at the record. Now we have candidates like Biden being evaluated entirely by their press releases, with no reference to his actual record that is so far right it makes Nixon look like Lenin.

I think we should replace political debates with no-holds-barred steel cage matches. It wouldn't be any more (or less) informative about the quality of the candidates, but it would be much better theater. And it would be nice to see at least one of these jerks suffer.

Posted by: TG | Sep 29 2020 20:26 utc | 4

i have already been drinking! i am going to wait for circes blow by blow report.. that will sober me up!

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2020 20:46 utc | 5

I got drunk yesterday and try to not drink two days in a row, but I'll be watching. And rooting for a meteor strike.

Posted by: Wind Hippo | Sep 29 2020 20:54 utc | 6

@TG 4 Try imagining those two in bathing suits. That will make you want to drink.

Posted by: par4 | Sep 29 2020 20:59 utc | 7

If someone could hack Biden’s earpeice and feed him Joke talking points it would make it worth watching. Of course he could always go off script on his own.

Posted by: Jimbobla | Sep 29 2020 21:06 utc | 8

Posted by: TG | Sep 29 2020 20:26 utc | 4 Debates are about as useless as a bathing suit contest.

I disagree. Bathing suit contests are *way* more useful than debates. At least you have something to look at. The only thing worth looking at in a debate is maybe some brainless "news babe" who happens to be moderating. Even then, I can't be bothered.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 29 2020 21:15 utc | 9

I'm definitely watching and I'm hoping the moderators or Biden ask: Mr. Trump can you please disclose here tonight the foreign lenders for the 450 Million $ debt you hold that will be due in the next few years?

Can he receive security clearance with those hundreds of millions in loans due in the next 4 years?

I don't think so!

Melania, start packing your your 4-inch heels.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 29 2020 21:18 utc | 10

I really should get to working on my spectacular 'new' (revived) preternatural website (wait till it gets started next week!), and I really should wait for the 'debate' to start drinking.

But... ah, frigg it. My personal debauchery will commence right now. What difference, at this point, does it make?

This is going to be a virtual hurricane, but with extremely toxic wind. Somebody in the press gallery will surely run amok and need to be put down.

Posted by: blues | Sep 29 2020 21:25 utc | 11

Matt forgot to include one of Biden's favorite go-to verbal gobbledygook phrases when his still remaining synapses just aren't firing too reliably : "You know...you know the thing!" One could get seriously hammered on that one alone.

Posted by: time2wakeupnow | Sep 29 2020 21:31 utc | 12

"Anyone watching the presidential election debate tonight?"

Sorry, B, no. I have better and more pleasant ways to waste my time... but it will probably be surrealistic...

Posted by: Anonymous Canada | Sep 29 2020 21:34 utc | 13

If someone could hack Biden’s earpeice and feed him Joke talking points it would make it worth watching.

"My fellow citizens, we have always been at war with Oceania!"

Posted by: Dr Wellington Yueh | Sep 29 2020 21:52 utc | 14

Waste of time. Go to bed early, and tomorrow hunt up a transcript somewhere. No matter what happens, the media will declare Biden the winner. Chris Wallace, the Kamala Harris of broadcast news!

Posted by: clark | Sep 29 2020 22:17 utc | 15

Joe Biden on Tuesday released his 2019 tax returns, which show he and his wife, Jill, paid nearly $300,000 in federal income tax last year and had an adjusted gross income of about $985,000. No doubt much of it a rake-off, in some fashion, of profits from wars he has favored. As Smedley Butler said: "War is a racket. . .the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.". . .Trump might ask him about it, looking for Biden to jumble his response sent to him on whatever ear device he will be using.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 29 2020 22:40 utc | 16

Just give 'em a deck of cards and a set of poker chips and let them have at each other.

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Sep 29 2020 22:41 utc | 17

Just give 'em a deck of cards and a set of poker chips and let them have at each other.

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Sep 29 2020 22:41 utc | 18

I'll watch debates just as soon as they're not conducted by the private corporation co-owned by the Democratic and Republican parties and third parties get equal time. And, and with a proper debate format where the candidates can go back and forth with each other.

Posted by: worldblee | Sep 29 2020 23:05 utc | 19

POTUS candidate nominee Biden will suffer two broken legs in a tragic boating accident whilst crossing the Potomac River in a handsomely kitted out dinghy. So nominal VP nominee Kamala Harris will have to stand in for him at the debate.

Posted by: blues | Sep 29 2020 23:06 utc | 20

If ONLY they let Mystery Science Theater 3000 moderate and comment on the debate.

It's going to be EPIC!!!!

Posted by: Joanna | Sep 29 2020 23:24 utc | 21

Yes. So you won't have to. But I've come to believe these things must be witnessed first hand, while using all possible telepathic energy to keep the bigger clown from scoring a slam dunk. Sadly this precludes Taibbi's rules.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Sep 29 2020 23:40 utc | 22

Will Trump take the high road? Or the low road?

Or will the Orange Fox pull something out of the hat?

Will Biden offer some irresistible new bait? Jubilee the student loans? Tax Jeffrey Bezos?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: blues | Sep 29 2020 23:42 utc | 23

Since 20 years now I haven’t watched any presidential debate. That’s because such “debates” have as much to do with policy discussions as WWE has to do with real wrestling. This time though, I am doing it purely for entertainment!

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Sep 29 2020 23:50 utc | 24

=> Nathan Mulcahy | Sep 29 2020 23:50 utc | 24

Another of us horror movie fans.

Posted by: blues | Sep 29 2020 23:53 utc | 25

I am gonna watch (if sufficiently sober). Here's the best links I have:

Live: Trump-Biden presidential debate moderated by Chris Wallace

Come watch the #2020debates with me & @mtaibbi as we play one of Matt's legendary drinking games

Maybe you have better links.

Posted by: blues | Sep 30 2020 0:07 utc | 26

I won't be watching the debate - it is being livestreamed by The Sydney Morning Herald at 10:30am (Australian Eastern Standard Time) - but would interested to know who'll be doing the most lip-synching of the two on the video re-enactments ... oops, repeats.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 30 2020 0:28 utc | 27

Debate ? Closer to a whopper telling contest in reality. Do people still actually believe the US is an actual functioning democratic republic ? You may as well vote on whether or not it's going to rain tomorrow for all the good it will do.

As PJ Orourk so eloquently put it decades ago, "Don't vote, you'll just encourage the bastards".

Posted by: dave | Sep 30 2020 0:33 utc | 28

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Sep 29 2020 22:41 utc | 18 Just give 'em a deck of cards and a set of poker chips and let them have at each other.

I'd prefer dueling pistols at point-blank range. What samurai used to call a "mutual slaying." LOL

Meanwhile, I just read an article relevant to this election from a guy who went through the Sri Lanka civil war. Well worth reading.

The Collapse is Here…from Someone Who Lived Through One Elsewhere….

While you're at it, look up "Selco Begovic". He has a couple books on Amazon and teaches a course in prepping. He survived the Bosnian civil war and his advice is entirely based on his experiences in that conflict. Here's a sample of his writings.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 30 2020 0:48 utc | 29

@blues #26: Thanks for the Halper/Taibbi link, I’ll be watching.

Posted by: S | Sep 30 2020 0:58 utc | 30

Tonight's Debate Show

The MAGA Pussy-grabber vs. I'm the guy! Malarkey.

=

- These two pro-establishment Centrists will accuse each other of being too radical to govern.

- They will disagree about who supports Israel more.

- Inconvenient truths (aka "cheap shots") that are sure to pop-up: Trump's tax returns; Hunter Biden.

- Pre-arranged "gaff"?: a "senior moment" for Biden followed by Trump's too-harsh mockery of it.

- Playing to the 'base': Supreme Court nominee rabbithole; 'racial justice' vs. 'law and order' rabbithole.

- Topics likely avoided (MSM memory-holed):

- assassination of Iranian Gen. Soleimani;

- massive wealth inequality;

- Flynn prosecution;

- Biden's sex accuser;

- Epstein;

- Wall Street and Boeing bailouts;

- Yemen and North Korea.


Deep State messaging conveyed this Trump-Biden performance: Foreign enemies are taking advantage of USA divisions! A foreshadowing the future domestic crack-down on dissent.

Drink: every time Biden makes a concession

- importance of Law and Order;

- China is to blame for virus devastation (not Trump, BoJo, Macron, ..)

- Trump has solved the Arab-Israeli conflict (he's a peacemaker!)

Enjoy the Show!

(Brought to you by USA Duopoly Inc., a subsidiary of Imperial NWO - Are you with us or against us?)

PS Reposted from Trump Taxes thread.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 30 2020 1:01 utc | 31

"How you doin', man?"

LMAO

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 30 2020 1:07 utc | 32

Kayabe!
The RedBlue Uniparty is pulling out all the stops! Come one come all! Bring your popcorn and perhaps some beer because you are going to need it

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 30 2020 1:10 utc | 33

The debate is a sh*t show. But par for the course. Wallace has lost control early. Trump is running roughshod over everyone. Biden stumbles.
It is early but Biden fans ought to be worried.

Posted by: bobzibub | Sep 30 2020 1:29 utc | 34

I watched the first few minutes, but then switched to the Chalkboard Scraping channel for relief. Did Trump borrow Boris Johnson's hairdresser for the occasion?

Posted by: elkern | Sep 30 2020 1:29 utc | 35

ditto... gong show... so crazy... the drinking approach is the only way to get thru this.. if you don't drink thru this, you will be doing some hard drinking after!

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 1:33 utc | 36

@james,

I'm listening to the debate and sober with no plans on doing damage to my body because an orange golem is making me feel sad.

Posted by: lizard | Sep 30 2020 1:48 utc | 37

Unfortunately I can’t watch, as I’m in the Woods (cellular $) so could someone provide a play by play ?

Thank you

Posted by: Featherless | Sep 30 2020 1:49 utc | 38

SBS.com.au began re-broadcasting ABC America's livestream of the debate at 11am Oz EST. It's now 11-50am and Sleepy hasn't had any Senior Moments so far. It's fairly undisciplined/poorly moderated and both Trump and Biden are talking over and interrupting the other. If either of them is using a teleprompter, it's not obvious.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 30 2020 1:53 utc | 39

I feel much better about the future of America and the world after listening to these two brilliant candidates.

heeheeheehee

Posted by: Perimetr | Sep 30 2020 1:57 utc | 40

Watched like 20 minutes of it. Trump interrupting every 3 seconds, Biden occasionally spacing out mid-sentence, but both have brief moments of clarity where they get a full talking point in. Mostly tho... why are these the 2 men on stage? what did we do wrong?

Posted by: ptb | Sep 30 2020 2:00 utc | 41

@ lizard... this debate is so insane, i am definitely becoming more insane minute by minute... wallace has no control of trump and biden.. both of them interrupt one another, although trump does this more... i am just joking about the drinking for myself, but i can't imagine another person watching this without taking matt tabbais advice! i must be really stupid.. i am still listening to it..

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 2:00 utc | 42

A clown show

United Circus of America

More than 350 million people and we have to choose between these two Clowns

Very sad

Posted by: WOW | Sep 30 2020 2:10 utc | 43

@james,

if I'm having an emotional reaction to something coming at me through media, I try to step back from it to see if maybe my emotional reaction is part of the design. and alcohol is all over my twitter feed, everyone joking how there ISN'T ENOUGH WHISKEY IN THE WORLD to deal with this.

many of these people probably still have jobs, homes, internet connection, a social support system, etc, and they are going to VOTE by golly because WWF grandpa edition has them in an existential tizzy as to the consequences if they don't.

Posted by: lizard | Sep 30 2020 2:12 utc | 44

I prefer this faceoff, with these two old numbnuts, rather than Killary, or worse Obama, whom I actually believed and was betrayed by. These two old farts are comparatively harmless.

Posted by: Featherless | Sep 30 2020 2:13 utc | 45

Oh YAY, Sputnik has some play by play

Posted by: Featherless | Sep 30 2020 2:20 utc | 46

@ lizard... fair enough! i hear you... that is smart... i am stupid, lol.. i get fully sucked in and then contemplate it afterwards... and yet this debate is so outrageous, if this doesn't demonstrate what is in that link @29 richard shared, i don't know what does... here is the link richard gave...

The Collapse is Here…from Someone Who Lived Through One Elsewhere….

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 2:21 utc | 47

@ Featherless | Sep 30 2020 2:13 utc | 45 who wrote
"
These two old farts are comparatively harmless.
"

I would posit that the empire they do or will front for is anything but harmless.

Thanks for the write ups by those that are watching, I am busy with better things to do than scream at the puppets of empire bullying each other

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 30 2020 2:24 utc | 48

the matt taibbi and kate halper link was screwed up.. they didn't have the audio right.. they messed up - unintentionally i am sure.. i had to listen to this via cbc news..

wallace is not a capable person for this job... he keeps calling biden vice president... this whole thing needed someone different to stop these 2 jackasses from interrupting each other constantly... i kept on watching it because it was so bad!! i figure i have watched the worst debate of all time!

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 2:28 utc | 49

Biden is doing well - keeping close to his script.
A couple of gaffes, but nothing major: buildings emit less gas and oil, that kind of thing.
Trump has been keeping too moderate, but has successfully raised points on Biden's 47 years, Hunter.
Biden has kept his cool and kept to his script on bringing up COVID deaths.
Net net: win for Biden in that he didn't lose. A continuation of his strategy of being "not Trump".

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 30 2020 2:32 utc | 50

@ c1ue | Sep 30 2020 2:32 utc | 50... we see it differently! here is what i said to my friend in colorado..i guess it is in the eye of the beholder...

unfortunately biden doesn't come across as very strong or convincing... trump comes across as strong, but extremely annoying... he's a real ass! it is a race between a lightweight and a real ass!

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 2:35 utc | 51

Unfortunately I can’t watch, as I’m in the Woods (cellular $) so could someone provide a play by play ?

Thank you

Posted by: Featherless | Sep 30 2020 1:49 utc | 38

"This has been a very slow battle between the contender and his challenger Ben neither one seems to really want to win this thing."

"I agree, Dan these two obviously didn't train for this. They both look out of shape. Neither can land a blow. This could wind up being a very tedious night.

"Wait Dan the contender has just kicked the challenger in the groin? That can't be legal can it? That's definitely below the belt.?

"I agree Ben the referee appears to be disqualifying the champ as we speak... No wait, what's this? The ref has been called over to the judges table..."

"It's been announced that the champ signed an executive order before the fight that he's allowed to go below the belt, if his challenger is being cagey." The challenger is still crumpled trying to regain composure."

"Yes Dan, but the ref has begun counting him out, can he get up in time? It appears he will, but the champ is charging in again and the contender is running for the ropes...."

"Oh god Ben he's tangled in the ropes, this could be bloody carnage! Back to you Gene, in the studio"

as my screen faded out. Hope that helped Featherless.

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Sep 30 2020 2:41 utc | 52

in a nutshell the debate was unbelievable...surreal... we treat one another incredibly more civil here at moa!! that was like all star mud wrestling with these 2 guys... it would have been more fun if they had of been mud wrestling... i feel embarrassed for the people in the usa for what i witnessed tonight... i wouldn't wish that leadership dynamic on my enemy....

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 2:43 utc | 53

yeah completely surrealistic indeed, also very entertaining, but there was nothing new to learn, both candidates were faithful to their style, they probably didn't convinced more supporters, american democracy is fucked, whoever wins ultimately.

Posted by: palladin | Sep 30 2020 2:48 utc | 54

Summary of the debate:

Trump Off The Rails

Best line of the night: Will you shut up, man!?

Posted by: Circe | Sep 30 2020 2:50 utc | 55

@james #51
If the goal is to not be strong or convincing - but to be bland and not-unlikable: Biden's strategy and execution was spot-on.
And to be fair: I don't think Biden *could* be anything else.
Nonetheless, the point may be that Hilary was so unlikable (which I said in 2016) that she lost the election and that Biden wants to be sure he doesn't make that mistake.
I also think Trump was deliberately trying to hold back, to seem "presidential", but couldn't keep to that.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 30 2020 3:00 utc | 56

Single weak MSM moderator was a built-in advantage for Trump as he is a natural, and practiced, bully.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 30 2020 3:04 utc | 57

Fox Wallace hosting the Presidenture Candidiasis is like the pedophile Priest holding Sunday Sermon- All American Exceptionals.

Posted by: CitizenX | Sep 30 2020 3:05 utc | 58

@ c1ue... i agree with you... we see all that much the same.. i really don't have a stake in the race.. i honestly think the nov 3rd date is going to be painful to watch as i don't believe the outcome will be known until much time after the nov 3rd date.... the whole usa looks messed up as a consequence... the leadership is unconvincing.. the debate was a gong show... i don't think it bodes well for the usa going forward here... i hope i am wrong..

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 3:06 utc | 59

@ jr... but trump didn't look all the presidential as c1ue notes as well... it was a very sad kettle of fish all around..

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 3:07 utc | 60

Trump was clearly trying to get Biden's goat and have him blow up or have a stroke on live TV (going after Hunter Biden's corruption, etc..). The closest he got was Biden saying "will you shut up man?", but that was it. Nothing major here aside from the farce the US elections have become found a new lowest depth. I suspect that Nancy will site this joke of a debate as a reason why Biden shouldn't debate Trump anymore, while Biden's people will see his "good" performance as a reason to put Biden out more often (and yes have more debates with Trump). I cant imagine this debate changing anyone's mind on who to vote for, but it might have convinced some undecided voters to just site this election out.

Posted by: Kadath | Sep 30 2020 3:12 utc | 61

okay, i am going to shut up.. i made enough posts for one week here... good night! now i can try to go back to normal..

Posted by: james | Sep 30 2020 3:13 utc | 62

Two moments which might resonate with voters - the first when Wallace asked each about an orderly transition and you could see the halo over Biden's head. Yes, on his part it would be, and even if he didn't win - no problem. Then to Trump, and his exasperation seemed genuine - what orderly transition did he have, has he had throughout his term of office, and even still? Then he made some statements (none too clear) of disclosures of wrongdoing on the part of various players in that obstruction of his own transition - which would soon be occurring.

The other moment was with respect to the validity of the ballot count - that Trump already is referring to ballots lost, extra ballots and other discrepancies. Biden is fine with the system. He could have attacked Trump on the mixup of postal sorting machines thrown out by Trump's new PO chief. But no, it's all gonna be fair and above board, says Biden. Hmmm.

Otherwise, yes to all the above!

Posted by: juliania | Sep 30 2020 3:25 utc | 63

Antoinetta III #18

Just give 'em a deck of cards and a set of poker chips and let them have at each other.

Thanks but I would giving them either one of these: 🗡 or ⚔️ and let them at it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 30 2020 3:40 utc | 64

Sounds to like 🇮🇱 won

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 30 2020 3:44 utc | 65

The debate brought to mind one of those Godzilla movies, where the two rubber monsters are at a standoff, bellowing at each other. Chris Wallace was like Raymond Burr lying in the rubble of Tokyo, in the original picture,--still at his microphone--swept away by the disaster.

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 30 2020 3:44 utc | 66

That is : "sounds to like 🇮🇱 won"

I blame it on the Arak and the dt's.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 30 2020 3:45 utc | 67

Cracked up over this tweet I just read... Hey, everyone find the most hilarious tweets about this stupidity and post them...

Zack Bornstein @ZackBornstein
Honestly drinking bleach doesn't seem so bad now

Pwn All The Things @pwnallthethings
Newspaper editors frantically googling
Quote Tweet
darth™ @darth
is shitshow one word or two word

Pwn All The Things @pwnallthethings
Chris Wallace wishing he brought a taser to this debate

Jeffrey Carr Retweeted
Kevin M. Kruse @KevinMKruse
Imagine you're working for a campaign, and it's just been revealed that your candidate spent $70,000 on hair styling for his reality TV show, and you decide to blast his opponent as an "out of touch elitist" for spending … $13 on ice cream.
Imagine being *that* bad at your job.
Quote Tweet
Steve Guest @SteveGuest
Just like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden is an out of touch elitist.
Did Biden happen to get the $13-dollar a pint ice cream out of Pelosi’s $24,000 fridge? twitter.com/joebiden/statu…

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 30 2020 4:07 utc | 68

Dumb move:

Trump told neo fascist Proud Boys to stand back AND stand by.

Proud boys replied to Trump online: Standing down and standing by, sir.

Biden was not stellar, but Trump lost the debate badly. His performance was an almost incoherent continuous rant from start to finish.


Posted by: Circe | Sep 30 2020 4:08 utc | 69

Trumps constant stepping on Biden and off topic rants has made it unwatchable and I have now tuned out and won
't watch any more debates. That is a problem for Trump as he is the one trailing in the polls and needs as many people tuned in as possible. No one will have changed their mind over this debate.

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Sep 30 2020 4:08 utc | 70

Trump has an ocean of ammunition, but he needs to learn to squeeze the trigger instead of pulling it. He landed a lot of shots, but he could have landed them better. Everything he said should have been more specific with more description. He should have practiced a strategy of softening Biden up with jabs instead of swinging right from the get go. I think he could have done a lot more damage on race by a hard-fact approach on Joe's record. Also, Trump could have trained to give a more competent recitation of his administrations successes. He left out: getting the wall built and getting a grip on border issues, peace developments in the middle east, drawing down troops, the criminal justice bill.

Biden held up mentally better than I expected. Truly, his record is one of the worst in living history, and his policies are a grotesque chimera of trend-appeal false promises, but somehow most of this wasn't brought home. Even so, he lost his equilibrium at least twice, telling Trump shut up and calling him a clown. He managed to pull himself together and stop doing that though. Also, he was effective for his base in a sickening way when he turned to the camera and vogued a few empty phrases. Biden may have won the debate by not losing. But I do wonder how many Democrats secretly hoped that Biden would fare poorly and step aside.


Neither candidate did much give any sense of a cogent general policy should he be elected

Posted by: Figgy | Sep 30 2020 4:34 utc | 71

Trump was the more aggressive of the two beasts and Biden seemed outmatched and rattled at various points in the donnybrook. It was not properly even a debate, but a kind of running verbal battle. Biden looked like a stunned creature at several points; and Trump succeeded in making him look flustered. And so it played out because Trump has been continually out in the public square, while Biden has been in a crouch for months, staying out of the public eye.

There are more Americans than it is comfortable to admit who seem to think that Trump looks like a president, and is the vigorous specimen that Biden is not. When Biden accused him of not wearing masks, Trump immediately produced one from the inner pocket of his coat. Trump then ridiculed Biden for wearing that enormous mask he wears everywhere.

Trump's versatility as compared Biden's faltering and scripted speech was noticeable, although Biden did speak effectively at brief intervals. Both candidates have political negatives that are appalling. This election cycle is a testament to a reactionary moment in the country's history. Biden was selected in a travesty of democratic process because he is reactionary, as the corrupt DNC wants him to be. And voters may be seduced on the other hand by Trump's protean guises, his masquerades, the sinister changes of mood and inflection. Some didn't take in his reply to the question about whether he would seriously condemn extremism on the right.

But it is not surprising to hear him say that he only believes that extremism exists on the left. In the debate he said the Proud Boys would hold back until they are needed. That's where he sees his support.

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 30 2020 4:43 utc | 72

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 30 2020 4:43 utc | 71

"There are more Americans than it is comfortable to admit who seem to think that Trump looks like a president"

Trump is the most typical president of the post-WWII era, and the president that most naturalistically reflects what political-economic America really is. That's why the Democrats, many Republicans and elites in general have such visceral loathing for him: He demolishes one of the pillars of neoliberalism, the carefully crafted facade of lies which was well-represented by Clinton, Obama, even Bush.

By the reverse side of the same coin, it's not surprising that there are many Americans that are sick of this humbug and find Trump's dissolution of it a breath of fresh air, who want their president to faithfully channel and express the US id.

"Some didn't take in his reply to the question about whether he would seriously condemn extremism on the right.

But it is not surprising to hear him say that he only believes that extremism exists on the left. In the debate he said the Proud Boys would hold back until they are needed. That's where he sees his support."

Nope, not surprising. Of course Trump would say that on principle, as a matter of tactics (it's never advisable to submit to the challenge, "will you condemn...", especially where your opponent is the same as you and is merely being a hypocrite when he challenges you that way), and as a matter of existential strategy, since the Democrats already have telegraphed that if they lose they'll attempt a forcible coup. In that eventuality Trump will need all the support of whatever kind he can get.

I'm assuming Trump countered with (unless he started such challenges), "Will you condemn the destructive rioting stemming from the BLM/Antifa protests". What did Biden reply to that? I'd assume the same kind of reply as Trump gave.

Overall it sounds like nothing exceptional happened in the debate, it was what everyone expected, Biden may benefit from low expectations, everyone will interpret it according to their prior agenda, and it'll change no minds.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 30 2020 5:12 utc | 73

Biden is the Angel of death.

Bringer of nuclear holocaust.

A vote for Biden is a vote for death.

Posted by: blues | Sep 30 2020 5:59 utc | 74

Is there any objective analysis of the debate in any media.

Posted by: Conman | Sep 30 2020 6:16 utc | 75

In 2016 I imagined that if Clinton lost, surely that would force the dims to clean up their act & suggested a vote for orangeutan would be no bad thing.

I was wrong, the crooked dim party 'activists' (I.E. bludging, dim-connected low lifes popping their blackheads while occupying cushy, well paid positions in various 'liberal' [amerikan sense of liberal not the actual meaning] think tanks, NGO's, citizen advocacy 'groups' kept their farcical gigs because the corporate sponsors realised paying off a couple of thousand toothless creeps would cost them less than having to go toe to toe with underpaid but committed think-tanks, NGO's & citizen advocacy organisations.

IOW Tom Perez delivered just as Oblamblam told him to, meaning Oblamblam et famille picked up a fat enough wedge to buy his 40 Acre, $14.85 million Martha's Vineyard estate so all the dim suck-arses got to keep their easy gigs and not have to go back to slaving away 80 hours a week in a cubicle of some ravenous global mega-law firm where they woud have to sell their soul at least once a week to have a chance of making partner in a coupla decades.
That gave us Biden plus as an extra gift, a free Bernie wind-up doll set to draw in unthinking 'lefties' that 'the bern' could then hand over to Biden.

Now the only viable option for amerikans is to either vote green perhaps a write-in or stay at home.

No matter which of these performing jackarses wins, the result will be a horror show and if you are unlucky enough to have voted for the eventual winner, yout will be as responsible for the havoc wreaked as Biden or Trump themselves will be.

It is going to take several election cycles before the corporations decide to quit paying protection to the dims & trouser the wad for themselves. That will happen eventually dim puppet lay-offs to keep more cash for corporates will happen, but it is a few elections away - unless of course amerikans wake TF up an short circuit the process (but I'm not hopeful of that happening this side of a blue moon).

So the only option for amerikans in 2020 is: keep yer heads down & yer conscience clear by not voting for either lame sad sack.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 30 2020 6:59 utc | 76

If I were american 2 points would stick:
1) Biden: I will undue the Trump taxcuts
2) Biden: There will be no more oil, gas, coal and nuclear energy
BR

Posted by: JM | Sep 30 2020 10:23 utc | 77

Posted by: Conman | Sep 30 2020 6:16 utc | 75

"Is there any objective analysis of the debate in any media."

I haven't seen any, I'm not sure you can be objective about something like that debate.

The drift I get from reading around is:

1.) Joe did OK

2.) Trump didn't do himself any favors

3.) Some people saying cancel the rest of debates, Biden & Harris saying "No we wan't them all". Haven't seen anything from Trumpist sources on whether they want to continue. I imagine the MSM people dread the idea of doing that two more times.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 30 2020 10:38 utc | 78

For those old enough to remember Bob and Ray comedy duo, wouldn't they have done a wonderful play by play of this farce? LOL

Posted by: Tom | Sep 30 2020 11:09 utc | 79

How does Biden get away with saying all the massive corruption through his son Hunter Biden has been debunked?

When the huge payoffs are documented by bank records?

Even Trump did not have with him last night the $3.5m wire transfer by Russia to Hunter Biden's shell company or the $1.5b China bank payoff.

Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Sep 30 2020 11:24 utc | 80

HA! Biden called Trump, Putin's Puppylast night!

But why oh why didn't Wallace bring up the fact that Trump is indebted to foreign entities to the tune of hundreds of millions due in the next 4 years? I would have loved to hear Trump explain who lent him $450 million to save his failing businesses? Trump is in a hole and he just keeps on digging.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 30 2020 11:34 utc | 81

If I were american 2 points would stick: 1) Biden: I will undue the Trump taxcuts 2) Biden: There will be no more oil, gas, coal and nuclear energy BR

Posted by: JM | Sep 30 2020 10:23 utc | 77If I were american 2 points would stick:
1) Biden: I will undue the Trump taxcuts
2) Biden: There will be no more oil, gas, coal and nuclear energy
BR

Posted by: JM | Sep 30 2020 10:23 utc | 77

Regular American joes need not worry about that. The filthy rich that Trump serves is another story.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 30 2020 11:40 utc | 82

So the only option for amerikans in 2020 is: keep yer heads down & yer conscience clear by not voting for either lame sad sack.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 30 2020 6:59 utc

Great advice if you want Ziofascist Trump for 4 more years!

FYI, over a quarter of the votes have already been mailed.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 30 2020 11:45 utc | 83


Is there any objective analysis of the debate in any media.
Posted by: Conman | Sep 30 2020 6:16 utc | 75

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/factchecking-the-first-trump-biden-debate/
https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/29/snopes-first-2020-prez-debate/
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/sep/30/fact-checking-first-2020-presidential-debate-joe-b/

How does Biden get away with saying all the massive corruption through his son Hunter Biden has been debunked?
Posted by: Liberty Blogger | Sep 30 2020 11:24 utc | 80


Trump: "Why did (Hunter Biden) deserve three and a half million from Moscow?"

Limited and disputed evidence
Trump hit an unverified story about Biden’s son Hunter over and over again. "Why is it, just out of curiosity, the mayor of Moscow’s wife gave your son three and half million dollars," Trump said.
A Senate Republican report said the widow of the ex-mayor sent $3.5 million to an American account in 2014.
Republicans tied Hunter Biden to the account, but refused to share any documents that might substantiate that. Hunter Biden’s lawyer said he had no connection to the account. Democratic Senate staff said they’ve seen the documents that Republicans have, and that they don’t tie Hunter Biden to the account.

Posted by: Iguana | Sep 30 2020 12:15 utc | 84

I'am not American, I have not been to North America, but I have been all over the rest of the place, well not Antartica, but even Patagonia of all places, most of Africa, and Russia and Asia (excluding Japan) (money ran out) also, and every country in Europe.
It does not make you more clever than everyone else, but having travelled a lot gives you perspective, and if you are able to gather that and store it in your brain you might become a little bit wiser. Might!
The USA boasts of being the largest democracy in the world... It is far from, I would guess China, India could compete for that spot if all comes to all. The USA is an oligarchy, where rich people thrive and poor people die, inequality is rampant, as it is in South America, but better camouflaged in the US. I have not been there as previously stated, but I do have a gigabit connection to the web, and having no problem understanding English, French and Spanish, the cry outs are numerous. The Us is rotting from the inside!
The us is a far cry from the vision of J.F.K and his visions, instead we got the warmonger Johnson.
And now we have Trump and the English have got Boris...
OHHH mores et tempers!

Posted by: Den lille Abe | Sep 30 2020 12:32 utc | 85

@ iguana 84

He made the (impossible) request for objective analysis. How do you figure those laundered corporate media sites are "objective"?

Posted by: Russ | Sep 30 2020 12:36 utc | 86

There is an excellent chance in my view that much of Trump's money wasn't lost but hidden away, in foreign bank accounts, and falsified as losses. But I admit, the alternative theory, that everyone who really believes Trump was a successful businessman was a gullible fool, is very plausible.

Once again, every analysis that starts from the premise that Trump "won" the election in 2016 is Trumpery. Trump fluked out in the Electoral College. That is indeed the law, but everyone who believes the letter of the law is moral, is morally vicious.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 30 2020 12:37 utc | 87

One word: unwatchable. Then every fire truck in the county showed up at the next door neighbors house, who "thought" they had a structure fire....
Seriously though, I was trying to read while those three guys were yelling on eachother and I couldnt. That's a very special kind of annoying. It's even more clear now that this sham democracy is going down in flames, and the color revolution destruction has arrived. Buckle up.

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 30 2020 12:39 utc | 88

I drank early, so I thought it was incredibly great entertainment in a very dark train wreck sort of way. It harkened back to my childhood when my brothers and I would scream at eachother about politics. It was hilarious and I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

Biden was amazingly well prepared, which means he most likely was given the questions prior. Given this was WWE, that is no surprise.

I agree Trump made a mistake in talking over Biden, as it did not look good. Both are very adept liars, if one knew the facts, but given most do not, they were effective.

It was a mistake when Trump went off script and went narcissistic about how everyone proclaimed he handled Covid. No one can make that look good.

Trimp did get a good shot in on Hunter when Biden tried to conflate Hunter with Beau, and he called him on it., but again this is inside baseball and the average viewer probably did not pick up on it.

Nothing learned, but great entertainment.

Posted by: Michael | Sep 30 2020 12:45 utc | 89

I didn’t watch that debate, I don’t like fiction. Plus don’t own a tv from choice.
I didn’t need to watch becouse I already know what two pigs with their heads and feet in the trough look like, and how it ends up.
As far as trump goes, stick an apple in his mouth and he’s oven ready.
Trumps planning to over through another country —— America !

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 30 2020 12:57 utc | 90

Trump was so hot under the collar you could see his makeup melting.

Babyman did everything to get attention, but beat the podium with his shoe.

Trump showed zero self-restraint. Let's be honest, his whole debate strategy went up in flames, and all his opponent needed to do was stand back and let him self-destruct. It was the Hindenburg disaster.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 30 2020 13:04 utc | 91

Didn't watch...knew it was going to be cringe-worthy.
I have read a bit about it to gather summaries.

1) I didn't get my wish. Biden did not wet himself.
2) Biden did much better than expected.
3) Trump dominated but too much to come across as presidential.
4) Biden will pack the Supreme Court if he is able
5) Trump holds significant information about the Democrat's traitorous coup attempt

Posted by: librul | Sep 30 2020 13:10 utc | 92

I only have wine for cooking (an actual California burgundy, tastes best as a marinate for meat, add garlic, ginger etc.). I guess I will abstain from alcohol and debates.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 30 2020 13:11 utc | 93

Didn't watch as I knew it was going to be cringe-worthy.
I have read a bit and gathered summaries.

1) Biden did not wet himself, in fact he did better than expected
2) Trump dominated Biden but over did it and did not come across as presidential
3) "It was a shit show"
4) Biden will attempt to pack the Supreme Court if elected
5) Trump holds significant information about the Democrat's traitorous coup attempt

Posted by: librul | Sep 30 2020 13:13 utc | 94

I didn't watch, but have checked a couple clips. I find it surprising that Team Dim thinks Trump's shout-out to the "Proud Boys" was some kind of political blunder. That and their cackling over Biden's "shut up man" line shows that they still do not understand why they lost in 2016. That gives the advantage to Trump, despite Trump's poor performance as President.

As for the polls showing Biden ahead, there is a reason that polls were off in 2016. People intending to throw a Molotov cocktail at the establishment do not announce it ahead of time. The establishment has given people no reason to stop wanting to throw Molotov cocktails at them, so polls will still be off this year, and Trump is still the human Molotov cocktail.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 30 2020 14:14 utc | 95

From an outside perspective it looked childish. Dems will complain about bullying but Trump fans will think he gave a strong performance. Nothing has changed.

Posted by: dh | Sep 30 2020 14:22 utc | 96

Nobody won this "debate". But America lost.

Posted by: Mike Ghirelli | Sep 30 2020 14:24 utc | 97

@ Russ 86
Fact checking of a presidential debate in the media can’t be objective in a true philosophical sense. Anyone who disagrees with these web pages can add other sources.

Posted by: Iguana | Sep 30 2020 14:35 utc | 98

Bemildred | Sep 30 2020 10:38 utc | 78

Man, I did not want to watch that, but forced myself. Almost turned it off after the first 5 minutes. For once I have to agree with most of punditocracy of the beltway boobs (msm political analysts): If all of the polling that has been ongoing is accurate and Biden is leading, then that will remain the case as Trump did nothing to try to widen his appeal. Pundits also agree that a very low bar was set for Biden which he easily cleared.

In the end I watched because I had my doubts that Biden would survive what turned out to be worse than even I expected. I'm pretty sure that all of Trump's advisers and coaches were certain that they'd have Biden on the ropes within 5 minutes - 10 max. That didn't happen, but that was the only strategy they brought to that knife-fight, and it didn't work. Sorry to all you Trump supporters here, but I think in 3 to 5 days we'll see a moderate widening of Biden's lead in the polling. Moderate only because most have made up their minds already.

If anyone backs out of the future planned debates, my bet is on the Trump camp as the full damage (to Trump) becomes clear in the next few days. I also expect Trump to exclaim on Twitter that Chris Wallace ambushed him and that he (Trump) was treated very unfairly.

As Kurt Vonnegut said: "And so it goes."

Posted by: vinnieoh | Sep 30 2020 14:38 utc | 99

Mistake @ my 90 should read ‘throw’ not ‘through’ obviously.
Gruffy if you shoot peoples family members in cold blood or even kneel on their necks can you be surprised at their anger ? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. We all know Trump and no one else started those riots. Be honest.
Following my preveous post ——- Trumps trying to start a war in America so I thought I would give a reminder what that looks like and what your city will look like.
Welcome to REALITY if you vote Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dp7w6a3l04
It’s just about victems and perpetrators !

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 30 2020 14:46 utc | 100

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