Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 04, 2020

DHS: Russia Will Interfere With U.S. Elections By Promoting Alleged Russian Interference With U.S. Elections

The Hill writes (emphasis added):

Russian media and other groups are intentionally “amplifying” concerns around mail-in voting in order to undermine the 2020 U.S. elections, a report compiled by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) made public Thursday found.
...
Russian state media, proxies, and Russian-controlled social media trolls are likely to promote allegations of corruption, system failure, and foreign malign interference to sow distrust in democratic institutions and election outcomes,” the Office of Intelligence and Analysis wrote.

Do these DHS folks ever look into mirrors?

And what exactly are the Washington Post and New York Times pieces below doing but "to sow distrust in democratic institutions and election outcomes"?

What’s the worst that could happen?
The election will likely spark violence — and a constitutional crisis

What Will You Do if Trump Doesn’t Leave?
Playing out the nightmare scenario.

Those scenarios are the Color Revolutions Coming Home and they are promoted not by Russian media but by the U.S. establishment.

As Whitney Webb writes of the Transition Integrity Project (TIP) war games:

A group of Democratic Party insiders and former Obama and Clinton era officials as well as a cadre of “Never Trump” neoconservative Republicans have spent the past few months conducting simulations and “war games” regarding different 2020 election “doomsday” scenarios.

Per several media reports on the group, called the Transition Integrity Project (TIP), they justify these exercises as specifically preparing for a scenario where President Trump loses the 2020 election and refuses to leave office, potentially resulting in a constitutional crisis. However, according to TIP’s own documents, even their simulations involving a “clear win” for Trump in the upcoming election resulted in a constitutional crisis, as they predicted that the Biden campaign would make bold moves aimed at securing the presidency, regardless of the election result.

This TIP war game (pg 17f) is indeed the plot for a coup:


bigger

It is amazing how all this is unfolding in plain sight.

Posted by b on September 4, 2020 at 7:23 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Nemesis-
"Yes, the CCP is a willed-reality of Hegelian-materialists. There is no oppositional party.

It will be as long as they can keep it. "

You mean the same party that just raised 800 million people out of poverty?

You mean the same party that has lifted their country up to the point that the Mighty Empire is frightened?

As far as I know the opposition is the entire population.

It will be as long as the people want it.

Posted by: arby | Sep 4 2020 22:42 utc | 101

Parisian Guy @98

My story is mine. It has no relation with the hinterland's story.
+++++++++++++++

I never said you didn't arrive at the same story independently

regardless of your reasoning for why you believe the deep state is continuously threatening trump as you claimed that doesn't change the fact it is still a fictional story that does not hold up to unbiased scrutiny.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 4 2020 22:51 utc | 102

@vk #100
I agree with your idea.
But here, I started in my comment #24 by estimating a 1% willing the civil war. Furthermore that 1% will encounter the hostility of the 99%, who are not unarmed.
But the main point is that as long as the USS military keep united, nothing will seriously happen. Let's say you'll get a few Waco and the "civil war" is finished.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 4 2020 22:52 utc | 103

@jinn #102

Absolutely typical of your kind of people, who cannot imagine they could be wrong, thus they prefer to misread, or not read at all.

1- I repeat : It's not the same story
2- Everybody has seen that the deep state had been continuously after Trump. That's why my initial opponent thought it wanted to get rid of Trump.
3- Very smoky blahblah about "unbiased scrutiny", without the beginning of a material point is only a face saving posture
4- Conclusion: may I politely ask you to go away

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 4 2020 23:05 utc | 104

Contra-Conspiraloon @Sep4 22:07 #95 & @Sep4 22:22 #99

Possibly the best trolling ever.

Yes foff. It may well be your best trolling ever.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

It it they translated for a Russian-speaking audience ... the kind of thing routinely done by all broadcast media.

Leveraging this to support the militia kid, tho ... that's genius - if you're addressing an audience of ignorant dumbfucks. But did you really expect no push-back at moa on the incongruity?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 4 2020 23:09 utc | 105

@ Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 4 2020 22:52 utc | 103

Maybe that's why they're stoking the flames: they need to transform these 1% into at least 10%.

Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 23:09 utc | 106

Correction @Sep4 2020 #105

"It it ..." ==> "It appears that they ..."

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 4 2020 23:14 utc | 107

btw foff, you were completely right in the Open Thread when you explained that Germany was forced to keep USA troops

Even though I disagree with some of what you say, I think that when you challenge commenters on sloppy thinking, you do a good service.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 4 2020 23:22 utc | 108


Parisian @104 says:

Everybody has seen that the deep state had been continuously after Trump.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is what you think you have seen...
but you are pretending when you say you speak for everybody

Posted by: jinn | Sep 4 2020 23:31 utc | 109

Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 15:07 utc | 57
"Not every people who are not non-Antifa/non-BLM are white supremacists"

The "not" in the above cancels out the two "nons". Therefore what you have actually said is "Not every person who IS Antifa/BLM is a white supremacist", which contradicts your argument. Give us a break!

Posted by: Who Er | Sep 4 2020 23:33 utc | 110

@94 psycho

I don't mean to talk down to you, old timer, but in order to understand the CCP and how it came to being, you would probably need to read and understand Hegel.

Most people think that Marx is all you need, but how can that be when Marx is one of the two greatest Hegelians, the other being Kierkegaard? Evidently, both Kierkegaard and Hegel might have caught a glance from the other sharing Schelling's lectures on Hegel in Berlin.

...

It is indeed hard to grasp, so those that skim through Marx, see the better aspects of China under the CCP, are fine with this cursory and surface understanding of what Marxism seems to be.

...

@ vk

You are wrong, vk. Whether ignorant of this or willfully spreading lies, you need to be corrected.

If I were to boil the CCP down and compare it to natural religions, I would always say that the CCP's mission (deluded though it may be to any right-thinking Christian) is to continue its truth materially ad infinitum. Whereas Hegel's "Science" held "Absolute Mind" as the final synthesis of his system, it was in spirit, or geist; the CCP, as you well know, think that somehow his philosophy can somehow translate into the material world, be installed and maintained throughout the ages.

It takes a hell of a lot of hubris and misreading of Hegel to do this, but that was Marx for you, one of the two "greatest" Hegelians.

By subsuming the dynastic tradition of Chinese Naturalism, it has rendered the ancient, natural religions of China as intrinsically secondary. There is no eternal truth in them, in Chinese tradition, and so I am correct in saying they are indeed subsumed.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 4 2020 23:38 utc | 111

vk @21 is the most informed view here because it applies historical and historicizing critique rather than random opinion. That such critique derives from a materialist and Marxist position only makes the critique more cogent (as in the brilliant analyses of Perry Anderson, Chris Bambery, Ernest Mandel, etc). Anything else veers from crypto-fascist conspiracism to simple reproduction of ruling class ideology, which amounts to about 80% of the comments here. In other words, read good history to prevent from opening your mouth and making a fool of yourself.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 4 2020 23:40 utc | 112

@ addendum

I meant to say that Kierkegaard and Marx might have caught a glance from the other during Schelling's Berlin lectures on Hegel.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 4 2020 23:43 utc | 113

@Parisian Guy:

The military will always play a huge part in any civil war. The spark that sets things off will determine how cohesive the US military will be. If this civil war is about class or race then the US military and government will fracture along those lines. Those who rise up in arms doesn't necessarily need to be well trained to kick things off, but it would increase the chances of victory for the rebellion. Foreign "advisors" would also have some influence over the war.

HOWEVER, I do not see a possible second US civil war being fought out in the traditional sense with two capitols, leadership and armies. What I anticipate is something along the lines of MENA. The Federal government will be just strong enough to exist but not strong enough to maintain full control of current holdings. Areas of control (or martial law) will shift where needed. Peripheral holdings like Guam, Hawaii and maybe Alaska would eventually drift away from the mainland. Let's not forget that California have taken legal steps to secession. Texas could follow if California manages to pull it off. Until then, remnants of the US military can still quash any resistance if the rebels are foolish enough to remain in one place. Rebel sleepers cells will be everywhere and only activate whenever it's necessary and they will likely not coordinate with each other. In the end, the Federal government will lose.

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 4 2020 23:44 utc | 114

@101 arby

You are a fine and true materialist.

I definitely applaud China for doing this. I bear no grudge against China, as I have said over and over and over and over again. I merely want the U.S. to stop doing business with it because we can not compete economically. It isn't fair to our workers. Neither doing business with China or any other country where labor costs are sooooo low. Basically, I detest neoliberalism.

I will also say that America has been able to lift its entire population up, as well, although without Marxism. So there's that.

...

Smh at posters here who think that calling China what it is equates to a hit piece.

You guys and your rosy-colored glasses, utterly clueless as to the debt you owe the west in WHO YOU ARE INTRINSICALLY.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 4 2020 23:53 utc | 115

Dear Bernhard,

Please, please, please give us the ability to collapse/expand individual posts so we can concentrate on the posts that really interest us, without being distracted by those that don't.

I don't know that the following post from stackoverflow.com would work as a drop-in to MoA, but have a look at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24420230/expand-collapse-text-in-html-javascript and scroll down to the remarks by Roberto Linares.

Posted by: Who Er | Sep 4 2020 23:54 utc | 116

Dear Bernhard,

Please, please, please give us the ability to collapse/expand individual posts so we can concentrate on the posts that really interest us, without being distracted by those that don't.

I don't know that the following post from stackoverflow.com would work as a drop-in to MoA, but have a look at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24420230/expand-collapse-text-in-html-javascript and scroll down to the remarks by Roberto Linares.

Posted by: Who Er | Sep 4 2020 23:54 utc | 117

@ Posted by: Who Er | Sep 4 2020 23:33 utc | 110

The phrase would still be true (even more true, as 99.9% of the BLM are not white supremacists; there sure is a percentage of white supremacists infiltrated there), but yes, it was a typo (the guy who debated with me on this didn't even notice either way). But thanks for correcting me.

--//--

@ Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 4 2020 23:38 utc | 111

Naturally, as a Kierkegaardian, you are a rabid anti-Hegelian. I wouldn't expect anything else.

But I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but Marx was not Hegelian (well, the Marx that matters to us; the Marx who published his works, not the Marx the college student who was indeed a Hegelian - Left Hegelian, to be more precise).

Marxism is not Hegelianism. Not at all. It simply isn't, there's nothing else I can say about it. What happened is that Western Marxism degenerated a lot during the mid-20th Century, so when a new generation of Marxists from the Economics area begun to rebuild Marxism at the end of the Century, they used the excuse that their predecessors didn't have a "Hegelian formation" to read Marx correctly in order to preserve their legacies (and/or to create a pedigree they could use to advance their careers). In reality, what really happened is that these people went to Economics college and had a neoclassical upbringing, only sliding to Marxism by pure chance of fate; they then read Marx with neoclassical lens, creating a bizarre form of pseudo-Marxism. It never had anything to do with Hegel.

Alas, the "you have to read Hegel to understand Marx" myth was born (the Chinese, to what I know, don't even know who Hegel was apart from the fact he was Marx's teacher).

Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 23:59 utc | 118

Trump is clearly going to win.

China is going to do it the hard way it seems, and that's good, them going mask off.

Either ways, China or USA, steer clear of both, but Trump does seem a tad more likeable than Comrade Xi.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 0:00 utc | 119

Maybe that's why they're stoking the flames: they need to transform these 1% into at least 10%.
Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 23:09 utc | 106

Why are they stoking the flames?

My current idea is that the purpose is to keep Trump in White House on November 3.

The plutocrats who pay for BLM knew what the result of the riots and looting will be.
The principle was clearly avowed three months ago.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-violent-protests-change-politics

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 5 2020 0:03 utc | 120

@jackrabbit

Do you seriously think, your kind (i.e. you, vk and karloff and K "nobody but Kyle has a weapon" C) managed to convince anybody?

In order to do that, you need a time machine to re-arrange the events, events where we have clear videos.

You talk about push-back? This is the push-back. We will shut your dirty lying mouths.

!!

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 0:05 utc | 121

It seems I was wrong to support Parisian Guy's interpretation @Sep4 21:26 @89

My view is much more aligned with jinn, to wit: Trump is part of the Deep State team (as all recent US Presidents and Vice Presidents, have been).

Trump is not controlled. He is not pressured by the Deep State. He's a member of the team: fully and entirely supportive of their agenda.

The Deep State team include other well-known figures such as: John Brennan, James Comey, Robert Mueller, etc. They all subscribe to the Deep State agenda and it's systems of control over the US population and allies (aka the "Empire").

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 0:12 utc | 122

@118 vk

I am more anti-Hegel because of my Catholicism than my readings of Kierkegaard.

Indeed, the idea that Kierkegaard was rabidly anti-Hegel is a little overplayed and lacking in reflection. We will continue this discussion in the future I imagine, where I can back to you on the above thesis.

A reading of Hegel creates a geniune problem for the Christian. It is too dense for me to tackle adequately in this point of my life. But I have understood the mystery aspect of both Hegel and his Science of Knowledge as well as the incarnation of God in Christ Jesus. There is enough in both to think and ponder without kneejerk rejection of Hegel.

The same goes for Heidegger and the question of Being.

This is the kind of stuff that makes being a Westerner sooo amazing.

But in truth, I am equally amazed by the Tao Te Ching, which Heidegger gravitated to towards the end of his life.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 5 2020 0:13 utc | 123

Smith @Sep5 0:05 #121

Do you seriously think, your kind (i.e. you, vk and karloff and K "nobody but Kyle has a weapon" C) managed to convince anybody?

"your kind"?

I think you're confused.

There's a big difference between points that I made about the Rittenhouse shootings and what others had to say. vk, for example, demonstrated a very poor understand of what happened - which I criticized him for.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 0:17 utc | 124

@Jackrabbit

Your points are generally about the shooting not being self-defense, and your kind failed to convince your audience that it isn't.

!!

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 0:20 utc | 125

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 4 2020 23:44 utc | 114

Hmmm.... I don't see the Air Force fracturing along race or class. If you own the sky...

Furthermore, the only real ground warriors are the Marines. You know, I'm French, thus I could be with a wrong idea about them, but I believe their loyalty to the hierarchy will come first.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 5 2020 0:30 utc | 126

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 4 2020 23:44 utc | 114

Hmmm.... I don't see the Air Force fracturing along race or class. If you own the sky...

Furthermore, the only real ground warriors are the Marines. You know, I'm French, thus I could be with a wrong idea about them, but I believe their loyalty to the hierarchy will come first.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 5 2020 0:30 utc | 127

stick to the topic of the thread folks...

Posted by: james | Sep 5 2020 0:32 utc | 128

regarding @ 9 debsisdead link to the cornell west talk with interviewer steven clemons, i thought it was interesting that the whitney webb article b cites mentions ''new america' and brooks... "Steven Clemons previously served as Executive Vice President of New America." it is the same guy interviewing cornell west.. seems like these people are a bunch of snakes..
https://www.newamerica.org/our-people/steven-clemons/

Posted by: james | Sep 5 2020 0:38 utc | 129

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 0:12 utc | 122
No. Trump is neither part of, neither against the deep state. Trump is part of Make Trump Great Again project. That's all.

Yes, special prosecutor Mueller is part of the deep state. Do you remember the personal lawyer of Trump, Cohen, was arrested exactly the day when Trump tried to have a personal meeting with Putin (which the deep state opposed). How do you explains that if Trump is just the willingful member of the deep state?

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 5 2020 0:42 utc | 130

Smith @Sep5 0:20 #125

Your points are generally about the shooting not being self-defense ...

No. My points are that:
  • 17-year old Kyle was a minor and never should've been placed in that situation by the responsible adults;
    It doesn't matter that other young people were there with guns or that 17-year olds can serve in the military (only with parents permission!). These "facts" don't obviate the responsibility.

    Young Kyle was with the militia and carried a gun - that made him a target. He didn't need a gun to deliver first aid. But the militia directed him to out to the crowd (with his gun) anyway.

  • Kyle acted in self defense BUT he over-reacted (as one would expect a 17-year old to do) as shown by his shooting the first victim (Rosenbaum) FOUR TIMES and shooting Huber (the second person he killed) while Huber was moving away from him.

The determination of whether Kyle acted in self-defense is ultimately up to a jury to decide, but the fact he's being charged as an adult for the shootings doesn't mean that Kyle's mother, the militia that Kyle was working with, and possibly the owner of the property that the militia was protecting, bear no responsibility. Each of them will almost certainly be sued for negligence over the shootings.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 0:49 utc | 131

Parisian Guy @Sep5 0:42 #130

If Trump is a populist who is battling the Deep State, then please explain:

  • Trump's nomination of Gina Haspel for CIA Director despite her being supported by supposed Trump-hater John Brennan;
  • Trump picking Mike Pence as his Vice President despite Pence being close to Trump-hater John McCain;
  • Kissinger's advocating for MAGA (to counter Russia and China) 10-months before Trump entered the race;
  • Newcomer Trump blowing past 18 seasoned politicians - none of whom effectively countered Trump's "populism" by, for example, becoming more populist themselves;
  • Hillary's alienating of progressives, ignoring blacks, and calling whites "deplorables" - why would a seasoned campaigner do that? And why did she refuse to campaign in the three states that SHE KNEW would decide the election?
  • Sander's obvious sheepdogging: no politician in a serious races refuses to do what is necessary to win. But Sander's wouldn't attack Hillary on character issues as made clear by his exclaiming: "Enough with your damn emails!" which gave Hillary a pass just long enough to make it impossible for the Democrats to find another candidate.
  • Deep ties among the 2016 candidates: In the 2016 campaign, Bernie called Hillary "a friend of 25 years". And the Trumps and Clintons were known to have been close friends for many years before the 2016 race.
  • The set up of Deep State enemies Manafort, Assange, and Flynn during the 2016 race:
    - Manafort had been warned about how his work for pro-Russian candidates in Ukraine was detrimental to US interests; he was lured to be Trump's campaign manager despite not having working in the US for years;

    - Wikileaks/Assange were claimed to support Russian hacking operations - which Trump made 'real' for the American people by calling on Wikileaks to "release the emails";

    - Flynn told the world that Obama had made a "wilful decision" to support the rise of ISIS. Flynn was set up via a sweetheart consulting deal with Turkey though he was ultimately was charged for lying about his talk with the Russian ambassador.

  • Why did this "populist" ignore the threat from the pandemic? His "shut down" of air traffic was just a band-aid. Travellers could easily circumvent it. There were NO controls at US airports for weeks. And Trump was down-playing the virus until the week before he declared a national emergency. And upon declaring that emergency he rushed out TRILLIONS of dollars of support for Wall Street.
  • Why did this "populist" not demand that the hydroxychloroquine + zinc treatment be appropriately studied? Instead, he allowed Fauci to cancel the only study that would provide a definitive answer.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 1:37 utc | 132

re emersonreturn | Sep 4 2020 19:33 utc | 80
"i was dismayed however by his take on putin & xi"

The older I get the less often I expect any other human to share all my views on anything. I really enjoyed Cornell West's riffs because not only were they apt, they seemed to me to be pure improvisation. That is I may have heard the tenor of his propositions before, but his metaphors and connections to other people, I had not.
Generally when a musician improvises there are a number of phrases repeated across performances but that wasn't the case with West, although maybe I need to listen to him more often, although I have heard his 2020 state of amerikan politics spiel three times in the last few weeks and every one of them has been different in the way I point out.

I don't have much truck with the media coverage of the China & Russia administrations, but I also believe it is idiotic to trust either of them as much as many people here seem to.

A quick study of history reveals that when it comes to dealing with other nations, no leadership is ever altruistic, they always follow an agenda which best suits that leadership, sometimes an agenda which suits the people of their own nation, but mostly just one that suits the leadership.

As far as I am concerned Rusia is getting found out in Syria, despite undertakings that the situation arising from the deal with Turkey over Idlib was temporary, I'm afraid the new borders are looking very permanent - just as some of us predicted when the deal between Russia & Turkey was done.

Australians have their heads filled with daily bulldust about China, most of which is untrue however just like here in Aotearoa where whines about 'the CCP' are much less common & a lot less prominent, there has been irrefutable evidence of Chinese involvement in the internal political system. No worse than the stuff amerika & england have been getting up to since forever, but I'm not a fan of any foreign entity trying to influence other governments for their own ends especially when it can be against the best interests of the locals.

I don't know why West sticks to the standard lines so much on Russia & China - maybe it is just because he knows that straying so far off the campsite on everything would cause too much criticism and prevent him from doing what he sees as his chosen job of effecting change within amerika or maybe it is because he wants to keep his gigs - according to how media describe him he has professorships at both Harvard & Princeton & he may have a large cluster in need of his support, or it may be just the same as he describes his continued adherence to xtianity - that he recognises he is a product of his upbringing. Maybe all, maybe none I dunno, I still like much more of what he says & the way he says it than the words coming out of anyone else's thoughts right now.

@ juliana # 51

Sorry I didn't see your comment until now - busy & distracted and I can understand you have doubts about the people's party but you should know that other members such as Chris Hedges have expressed reservations about Dr West's take that Trump is a neofascist and he must be dealt with before the neolibs are taken down, so I wouldn't be so hasty to tar all the Peoples Party with that brush. If I could remember where Hedges said that it would be good but I cannot - may have been on Jimmy Dore but it could have been somewhere else.

The Peoples Party aren't going to be able to get on many ballots, so although they are a good write-in alternative in 2020, their true test will come after this election as if they are serious, they will show that by putting in the hard work for the 4 years following that. Otherwise all will be revealed to be just another distraction but lets face it 100% of what Biden & Trump are on about is distraction - substantive issues are as ignored this year as they always are in any election - a malady currently spreading far & wide.

Ardern is pretty much 100% distraction for the Aotearoa election next month and the Natz have always been distraction.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 5 2020 1:38 utc | 133

@ NemesisCalling | Sep 5 2020 0:13 utc | 123 who says he is talking down to me and wrote
"
But in truth, I am equally amazed by the Tao Te Ching, which Heidegger gravitated to towards the end of his life.
"
There is a line in the Tao Te Ching that reads
"
The way that can be named is not the real way"
"

I encourage you to contemplate that line that was written in 400 BC by those in that civilization you continue to disrespect.

Add to that contemplation the science facts that describe our knowledge of the Cosmos we live in as less than 5%.

Hence your words like natural religion and eternal truths along with your belief that you are talking down to me says much more about you than it does about me.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 5 2020 1:42 utc | 134

Well, very curious.
The russians failed to kill anyone in the Salisbury scripalistic thing.Failed to convince Mueller that they, the
russians are indeed competent hackers...
Failed to kill the US dearest trojan horse mr Navalny, and were so naive as to board him on a plane to Berlin.
ASnd now, those devilish russians come to the limit of teaming up with the NYT and WAPO to forecast failure and
in the coming US elections...
Not satisfied with that, their Leader , a certain Mr Putin, throws the gloves of provocation right on the

nose of Warshington calling their newest breakthru Sputnik V, which in turn breaks up most of Big Pharma's
hopes of a grand profit pick up for 2021.
Something must be done.


Posted by: augusto | Sep 5 2020 1:45 utc | 135

Debsisdead @Sep5 1:38 @133

Cornell West's support for Biden is at least as troubling as his toeing the 'party line' on Russia and China.

That he supports Biden while being involved in the People's Party Movement (PPM) shows that he's not to be trusted and taints PPM along with the involvement of top Sanders people who were involved in the Sanders sheep-dogging campaign and the Sanders failed nonprofit Our Revolution. "Our Revolution" was supposed to support the Sanders progressive Movement - virtually the same Mission as PPM.

PPM appears to be yet another reboot of Democratic Party astroturfing.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 1:55 utc | 136

Santa Fe is burning zozobra tonight - that's Old Man Gloom, and he's definitely not a religious figure. Can be viewed online live at www.koat.com. Starting now,but he burns in about an hour.

All socially distanced!

Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2020 2:03 utc | 137

Cornell West is a Cabbage For Christ.
It is hard for me to take anything he says seriously.

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Sep 5 2020 2:15 utc | 138

Thanks for your reply Debsisdead @ 133 and yes, I will keep an open mind on the People's Party, as I understand it wants to be a big tent and that means opposing views with some main objections to money in politics and the class divide, which I agree with. My post above is about the once a year chucking out of gloom in Santa Fe. I used to live on a dirt road up there, and this night would nearly suffocate from the dust raised by all the locals trakking to the field from wherever they parked. So this year, covid will be good for residents nearby!

Posted by: juliania | Sep 5 2020 2:19 utc | 139

@134 psycho

I just don't see how you can say that I am disrespecting the Chinese.

Is it because I challenge the peddled narrative around here that just because China has modernized significantly that I should foresake westernism and its philosophy for easternism and Marxism? Talk about throwing the baby out...

Perhaps I don't virtue signal enough by defecating on my country and its people enough, like many here. Or maybe because I don't participate in the Two Minutes Hate ritual where posters, against b's wishes of "snappy, one-liners," come in here for their two-sentence posts of Anti-American claptrap.

Personally, I have a history of being suspicious of those who others admire or heap praise onto. I think it is a good thing and has never steered me wrong. I have always had my eyes on self-betterment and truth and have always detested the popular. If this rubs you the wrong way, maybe you should ask yourself why and perhaps how it could be related to the unending and unabashed pro-Chinese propaganda that gets diacharged here at the bar every stinking day.

If both countries, the U.S. and China, were to ever be attuned to the Tao Te Ching, we wouldn't even be talking about each other, the Chinese about Americans, or vice versa.

Here is a shoddy translation of a good chapter:

80.
If a country is governed wisely,
its inhabitants will be content.
They enjoy the labor of their hands
and don't waste time inventing
labor-saving machines.
Since they dearly love their homes,
they aren't interested in travel.
There may be a few wagons and boats,
but these don't go anywhere.
There may be an arsenal of weapons,
but nobody ever uses them.
People enjoy their food,
take pleasure in being with their families,
spend weekends working in their gardens,
delight in the doings of the neighborhood.
And even though the next country is so close
that people can hear its roosters crowing and its dogs barking,
they are content to die of old age
without ever having gone to see it.

..

I long for the days where the east is for easterners and the west for us. Chinese-American trading has been an absolute quagmire for us, similar to Afghanistan.

What's the rub? We get rubbed out.


Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 5 2020 2:31 utc | 140

@ Internet tough guy knuckle dragger "Smith" #121

If you're going to make not-so-veiled threats based on what it is you thought people said, then at least try to get that part right.

I never said "nobody but Kyle (glad to know you're on a first name basis with him) had a weapon" you buffoon. I said that in the one still grab of a video, shared here by Gruff, a weapon had been edited/photoshopped/doctored in another guy's hands - or the other guy was much farther away and the photo was manipulated to make him look closer. I think WG got it from Daily Caller or Breitbart, but I don't recall exactly because it wasn't a big deal and I haven't seen that particular still/photo used anywhere since. It was only one dude carrying a pistol within a 20 foot radius of Rittenhouse when he had tripped on the street and that person was shot by your boy Kyle. Of course there were MANY other people with weapons in the fracas; people on all sides in fact.

You won't be shutting anyone's mouth. Not fantasizing about it here and not in your real everyday life either.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Sep 5 2020 2:50 utc | 141

@ NemesisCalling | Sep 5 2020 2:31 utc | 140 who wrote
"
If both countries, the U.S. and China, were to ever be attuned to the Tao Te Ching, we wouldn't even be talking about each other, the Chinese about Americans, or vice versa.
"
If you go to the Wiki on Laozi you can read that China is using the Tao Te Ching as a guide to the legal system.....see what I mean by disrespect now.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 5 2020 2:55 utc | 142

Here is another version of the still photo I just referenced. In fact what I think happened in the version that William Gruff shared is that the skateboard in the first assailant's hands was made to look like a pistol, thereby creating the appearance that two armed attackers were closing in on Rittenhouse when in fact at that time, it was just the one.

https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/defamation-rittenhouse

Posted by: _K_C_ | Sep 5 2020 2:56 utc | 143

If Trump is a populist who is battling the Deep State, then please explain [blahblah]
@Jackrabbit #132

Is it a practical joke ?

If it's not, please go back learning to read accurately. Then try to understand what I said. Or, since I somewhat doubt you will succeed, just leave me alone. I have no time for your kind of brain.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Sep 5 2020 3:17 utc | 144

vk #32

The CCP is not a party in the Western sense of the word. The comparison made by your friend is absurd.

"Western sense"

Therein lies the flaw in your proposition.

Senseless - As evidenced by the Western, behaviour, attitudes and economics.

In the western party system we have witnessed a convergence that eliminates authentic political contest and stultifies/attenuates the trial of administrative and policy options.

The CCP on the other hand invigorates/amplifies the search for political, administrative and policy options.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 5 2020 3:27 utc | 145

@ Jackrabbit

Kyle is 17, one more year and he can do whatever he wants with his life, and what does he do at 17? Defacing graffiti and protecting properties, as opposing to rioting and protesting for no reasons?

And over-reacted, 3 persons jump on him, they should be glad that only 2 were killed. It's funny when a right winger is attacked, he must always maintain the life of his attackers, especially when they are right on top of him.

You have no point, Jackrabbit, and your concern trolling is worthy of mockery. Kyle is a case of one that wins against many, of one courageous kids being swarmed by adults (one armed) and winning.

And responsibilities, responsibilities. Kyle did well, and the youth in America ought to take lessens from him, and less from those who sit at home all days our outta the street protesting.

!!

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 3:46 utc | 146

Petri Krohn #90

The caller from Warsaw says that the scandal could be used to discourage Russian President Vladimir Putin from trying to influence the situation in Belarus and the best way to do it to drone him in Russia’s problems, especially now, ahead of elections in Russian regions. The Berlin caller says he is addressing that matter.

Brilliant Petri, you get the virtual best typo award. Even if it is second hand.
Typos like THAT can start wars.

A stein of absinth for my friend.

Watch out Vlad those Germans are either going to drown ⚓ you or drone 🛬 you

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 5 2020 3:48 utc | 147

@ K_C or dare I say, tough guy who never had a weapon K_C

How about I slap your mouth with a skateboard, K_C?

Would your mouth still be lying then?

How about a hammer, or a baseball bat?

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 3:49 utc | 148

@Steve (4)

"The USA establishment seems to be run by b-rate comedians. And their media seem to be in the hands of circus performers."

Only none of this is funny.

Posted by: rgl | Sep 5 2020 3:54 utc | 149

@William Gruff (23)

Absolutely correct. Well said.

Posted by: rgl | Sep 5 2020 3:59 utc | 150

re If that blowhard dingbat Smith is the best the trumpists can come up with to 'threaten' the leftists, the blm blokes will have no trouble sorting out the sorry collection of panzerfaust equipped hitler youths being bossed by overweight beer addled bullies. It's the battle of Berlin all over again - we all know who won that one. smith falls woefully short of the facile propaganda of goebbels & co damn near 80 years after the fact. hehehe
One thing about amerikans as stupid as one may seem to be, it won't be long before an even stupider one fronts.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 5 2020 4:13 utc | 151

Who could have ever thought that basing the world's economy on the need for perpetual growth on a finite planet could go wrong?

Go forth and multiply.

When at the circus don't complain about clowns being there...

Posted by: Seer | Sep 5 2020 4:28 utc | 152

@ Debsisdead

Hehehe, propaganda is weak. Truth is stronger.

Don't talk, act.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 4:29 utc | 153

Like I said, this is clearly the plan...

Zuckerberg warns of post-election violence


Zuckerberg said that since the outcome may not be known on election night, Facebook and the media need to start "preparing the American people that there's nothing illegitimate about this election," even if it takes "additional days or even weeks to make sure that all of the votes are counted."

Among Facebook's "New Steps to Protect the U.S. Elections":

"We will attach an informational label to content that seeks to delegitimize the outcome of the election or discuss the legitimacy of voting methods, for example, by claiming that lawful methods of voting will lead to fraud."
"If any candidate or campaign tries to declare victory before the final results are in, we’ll add a label to their posts directing people to the official results from Reuters and the National Election Pool."

In other words, before Facebook *knows* whether there was anything "illegitimate" about the election - they're going to tell you there isn't. LOL

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 5 2020 4:42 utc | 154

Meanwhile, on the voting app front...

Surprise! Voting app maker roasted by computer boffins for poor security now begs US courts to limit flaw finding
We should be able to outlaw unauthorized inquiry, Voatz argues


These are roughly the last people I would go to for advice on what would "harm computer security". More of an inimicus brief if you ask me.
— matt blaze (@mattblaze) September 3, 2020

My Note: Matt is one of the people I follow on Twitter on infosec.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 5 2020 4:45 utc | 155

Posted by: Seer | Sep 5 2020 4:28 utc | 152

When at the circus don't complain about clowns being there...

Can I complain about where's my bread?

Posted by: One Too Many | Sep 5 2020 4:50 utc | 156

Whitney webb gave a great interview on this subject as well

https://www.bitchute.com/channel/24yVcta8zEjY/

Check out her article on Operation Blackout/Cybereason as well. She mentions this in the interview as well. Both sides are planning to to disrupt the elections, create a constitutional crisis, and use a false flag to start another war with either China, Russia or Iran. Or maybe all of them or just one of them. Trumps guys want China, Neocons want Iran, DNC and “Never” Trump Republicans want Russia with the latter also wanting Iran

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Sep 5 2020 4:59 utc | 157

"Smith" - I know that reading for comprehension is an issue for your type, but the conversation centered on who was armed with a GUN and a misleading picture circulating in rightie media. I normally would have been more careful with my wording about "weapons" in my response, but I knew it wouldn't make a difference anyway to a cretin like you that appears to be actively trying to get bounced out of this bar and banned from re-entry.

It's obvious you have deeply held fantasies about committing violence. Why don't you take to the streets in whatever (obviously) American or (possibly) British and put your (lack of) money where your keyboard is for a change? What do you get out of posturing and puffery in an anonymous forum like this? It's clear that I touched a nerve with you that day (as did jackrabbit, vk and karlof - likely others as well), but it's still not clear what you think you're accomplishing here other than venting impotent piss and vinegar into the void. Here's a little hint: It's boring. Yawn. If you're such a tough guy, go act it out in your real life. Nobody here cares. But if you have something of substance to contribute, I'd be happy to entertain it.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Sep 5 2020 5:25 utc | 158

Ah, I should have caught that detail. Baseball bat - you're a typical angry and uneducated American. Probably resentful of anyone that has achieved academic and financial success too.

You won't be hitting anyone with a skateboard, hammer or baseball bat. If you do, you'll end up in a hardened American prison and probably abused yourself by the other tougher people in there.

P.S. - You seem to be beating around the bush and hinting that I've never had a weapon. In fact, here in my current EU country, I own the same rifles that I brought with me when I moved here from the USA as well as a nice new Benelli M4 - and ammo is easier to get here than in the States because I'm not surrounded by a bunch of slobbering psychos like you; quite coincidentally I also get first class "free" healthcare and my son gets free college without rampant violence in the streets despite the American right wing news media's insistence that this country is being overrun by Muslims. I'd take this any day over any American city.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Sep 5 2020 5:31 utc | 159

the yankistan so called election can't come soon enough. when it does we will see democracy at it finest. the yankistan civil war was an introduction into industrial killing. they may we surpass that this time around. will be interesting to see if one side decides the other side needs the Hiroshima treatment.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 5 2020 5:42 utc | 160

@ K_C

Oh, so it's not weapons, but guns specifically. Listen, I don't need a weapon to shut your kind off and I will continue to do so at my leisure.

And healthcare, in the EU? Really? I, for one, don't give no shit.

This is about the truth, it has nothing to do with weapons or healthcare or education.

P.S you can arm yourself with a nuclear weapons and it wouldn't matter one slick.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 5:50 utc | 161

debs smith ect

a blackfella is shot seven? times in the back, a town is burned... law and order types get cranky... a couple of wannabe looters get shot by someone not legal age to shoot them...

when i was younger and working long hours, towards the end of the week, i would come home and everyone one was arguing. three kids and mum. i'd say cut it out. the noise would continue so i'd say go find my belt. quiet.

some things get past the point of who dun what to the point of "go and find my belt".

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 5 2020 6:12 utc | 162

Oh wait, I forgot to say why I am here. B should allow an edit button.

Kyle cleansed the street.

I am here to cleanse the comments (namely from vk, jackrabbit, karlof and K "never had a weapon but pistol and skateboard in the mouth" C.

Keep the lies on and I will be correcting them.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 6:14 utc | 163

OK, so LOL when can we expect the street to be swept of nonsense/litter like what Smith is throwing around?

So boring, but also so offensive in this bar. Smith if you're such a tough guy just go ahead and name yourself. You sound like a real rough rider - probably nothing to worry about from any of the wimpy commies here that have pressed your buttons.

Posted by: _K_C_ | Sep 5 2020 6:26 utc | 164

@ K_C

Yeah, I am yawning myself. Boring but offensive, really now? Meanwhile, the streets in Kenosha are cleansed, all thanks to the couragous acts of a 17 year old fat kid.

And no, I don't argue for you nor your kind. I am here to correct your kind, that even in here, there is pushback.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 6:42 utc | 165

@ Peter AU1

The police is shite, I don't support them. They intentionally not do their job, which is why rioters are free to loot and burn as they want.

I fully support defunding them, we need less cops, more militia. The mob will only disperse with violence showered back at them, as Hong Kong, Belgrade and Belarus have shown recently.

And bring your belt, it's time to hit the streets, lotta naughties out there.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 6:47 utc | 166

Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 13:51 utc | 42

The six or seven arson that happened in Kenosha my or may not be considered riot. From where I come from (a Third World country), they are just troublemakers surfing on the vacuum left by political polarization.

Reap what you sow, and have a taste of your own recipes.

A 17 year old kid should be holding a nice brass musical instrument, or a perfect mechanical machine like a Leica film camera, or a fine piano, or a sextant, how about a nice bicycle, so many mechanical instruments for life. The problem is that he preferred holding a flat earth believer instrument, the colonizer that roams the never ending plains, but the earth is not flat, and the plains are long colonized, the aboriginal people to whom they belonged have either disappeared or “reserved”. Hollywood is dead, the saloon is just a cardboard remnant of glory days, a tourist attraction not far from where I am, and Clint Eastwood does not look as handsome and mean as he used to when he roamed Souther Spain with an Italian marvelous soundtrack selling the whole deal as true amerikan.

Posted by: Paco | Sep 5 2020 7:27 utc | 167

September 4, 2020

Market Friday:
The Pipeline and the Poison


Pipeline politics, like electoral politics, knows no limits.

With Nordstream 2’s completion on schedule to happen around the same time Donald Trump will ‘appear to be re-elected,‘ the amping up of anti-Russian rhetoric and political pressure was to be expected.

The poisoning of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s supposed chief critic, Alexei Navalny, is the latest sad attempt to stop the Nordstream 2 pipeline. Laying aside the reality that Navalny isn’t any real threat to Putin, the basic question you should be asking is if Putin truly wanted him dead why not just create a pretext for it and shoot him?

This is the first and only reason you need to prove that this story is a bad Ian Fleming short story concocted in the bowels of MI6.

Navalny gets arrested and released in Moscow as often as most people change their socks. So, if Putin the Gangsta’ wanted him dead, he’d be dead.

But Navalny as a political asset for the West as Putin’s gadfly was completely spent. The proof of this is Navalny’s inability to marshal any opposition to the recent referendum in Russia blessing the proposed changes to the constitution.

While the Democrats and the media try to keep the dream of Russian interference into our elections alive we are distracted from what the real operation is — to stop Trump’s re-election and delay until the coup is complete in the U.S. to bury all the evidence of Obamagate during a restoration....


https://tomluongo.me/2020/09/04/market-friday-pipeline-poison/

Posted by: Alicia | Sep 5 2020 8:13 utc | 168

A country that counts arsonists as just small troublemakers sounds fucked, 3rd world or not.

Riots are damaging, but arsonists are very, very damaging.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 5 2020 8:46 utc | 169

The six or seven arson that happened in Kenosha my or may not be considered riot. From where I come from (a Third World country), they are just troublemakers surfing on the vacuum left by political polarization.

Posted by: vk | Sep 4 2020 13:51 utc | 42

---

And THAT, my friend, is why the country you come from is and will remain "3rd world".

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 10:55 utc | 170

couple of wannabe looters get shot by someone not legal age to shoot them...


Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 5 2020 6:12 utc | 162

-----

There are no laws specifying a "legal age to shoot" people.

There are simply no laws in any country on the planet saying "after the age of 18 one can shoot people".


"When i was younger and working long hours, towards the end of the week, i would come home and everyone one was arguing. three kids and mum. i'd say cut it out. the noise would continue so i'd say go find my belt. quiet.

some things get past the point of who dun what to the point of "go and find my belt".

In your analogy, the dead child rapist, dead serial domestic abuser and one-armed robber were "the belt".

Cos that's what it took to get these people to stop.


Asking nicely, like Mr Blake's parents both did several times on tv, simply just wasn't cutting it.

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 11:04 utc | 171

There are no laws specifying a "legal age to shoot" people.

There are simply no laws in any country on the planet saying "after the age of 18 one can shoot people".


-----

Nor are there any laws in any country on the planet saying "it is illegal to shoot people if you are Under the age of 18"

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 11:16 utc | 172

an east european seer said trump will be the last US president before civil war

guess she is correct

Posted by: milomilo | Sep 5 2020 11:18 utc | 173

smith is advocating violence and should be denounced. And the other toxin the self confessed loon should know it's illegal everywhere to shoot first

Posted by: Abu Aisha | Sep 5 2020 11:42 utc | 174


smith is advocating violence and should be denounced.


Posted by: Abu Aisha | Sep 5 2020 11:42 utc | 174

---

Smith is far from the only one here who has been advocating violence. I can easily name several others. So could you if you weren't a hypocrite.

"it's illegal everywhere to shoot first"

No it isn't.

Like it or not, there are many places where it is legal to shoot first, particularly in an effort to defend yourself, provided certain criteria exist and certain legal niceties are adhered to.

Rittenhouse's situation, being hunted down by a rioting, looting violent mob of deranged arsonist felons, may very well be one such case.

We'll have to wait and see

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 12:01 utc | 175

No. Actually This is a left wing website and you and other right wingers think there's a place for you. Harry's hasbara troll much?

Posted by: Abu Aisha | Sep 5 2020 12:09 utc | 176

To pretend that Russia and Israel both don't favor corrupt Zionist Trump and Pootie and Yahoo won't do everything in their power to see Trump is re-elected is to delude oneself kind of like: let's all go crazy and Party like it's 1984 cause this Pandemic's on its way out by November 3rd and Trump will get his super-V economy and become the greatest Zionist President to rule in the history of mankind.

Only bootlicking Trumpers in la-la Trumpworld are that deceptive and/or deluded and selfish.

Hard times are coming thanks to the Trump plague.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 5 2020 12:09 utc | 177

The above comments are what you get if you vote trump and allow guns.
Give them a hammer and every problem looks like a nail !
But keep it up your the best advert for Black Lives Matter and Antifa.
Exhibit a my lord, case proved.
Now you boys just carry on, the rest of the sane world are laughing at you and trump.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 5 2020 12:22 utc | 178

My comment at @ 178 was directed at conspracy loon & smith

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 5 2020 12:31 utc | 179

Pretending Trump is responsible for the gun culture is taking partisanship and Trump Derangement Syndrome to somewhat moronic levels.
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 5 2020 12:22 utc | 178


US gun culture existed looooong before Trump was even a not-very-attractive twinkle in his daddy's eye.

Nonetheless I guess such idiotic commentary helps the Mark2 "Corporate-Programming Reciever" (™®©) Bot reach its corporate-mandated daily virtue-signalling performance quota, and that's all that really matter to it.

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 12:48 utc | 180

You mean the same DHS that who is about to declare white supremacy a threat to our cities and country? When did BLM become a white organization? Or how about in Israeli their press is owning the Jewish roots of Antifa? Makes the whole "the Russians actually interfered with US elections by creating a false narrative of hacking the election" seem sensible. No doubt every mailman out their will soon be a Russian agent. Know what else, they'll also be white even if they are not. Oh well, at least I have the useless satisfaction of being opposed of the creation of DHS back in the day.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Sep 5 2020 13:05 utc | 181

the best advert for Black Lives Matter and Antifa.

The MarkII bot @178

-----


The best advert for Black Lives Matter and Antifa.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScooterCasterNY/status/1302060108898357257

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 13:06 utc | 182

Paco @167

Excellent post.

Posted by: arby | Sep 5 2020 13:16 utc | 183


The best advert for Black Lives Matter and Antifa.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarriePeach2/status/1301691794208501760

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 13:24 utc | 184

I'm just interested since we are discussing the violence that is likely to follow the upcoming election. The hysterical crowd currently being remote-controlled by the corporate mass media (apparently to motivate them to vote against Trump) wants to defund police forces. Of course this would result in elimination of police forces as they are not likely to work for free. Ultimately I am not opposed to this, but there are some "rough spots" in the transition to a police-less society that need to be worked out first, and I don't hear much discussion about those details even here where the brows are presumably higher than most other fora.

One issue of interest is that those recommending eliminating police forces also seem (I could be wrong so correct me on this) to be the ones that don't like guns and don't want people to have them. I think Richard Steven Hack might be an exception here, though. Anyway, with police forces gone, who will collect the guns that people are unlikely to want to give up? Nice guns are expensive, and like a well-used tool one develops an affinity for them when they are practiced with extensively. Perhaps those seeking to dissolve police forces are imagining some kind of community volunteer organization that handles law enforcement in their areas, which I think is a good idea. The problem with this idea is that it has a name: "militia".

See the problem here? The same people who have been remote-controlled into hysteria by their TVs (ha! And they thought they were the ones remote-controlling their TVs!) and want the police (and guns) gone are also the ones who have been brainwashed into equating "militia" = "white supremacists"

What a bummer! That means that if you form a militia you will turn into a white supremacist! Now what are you going to do?

Many Americans live in a world of delusion and fantasy, but fortunately they are protected from cognitive dissonance mind-quakes by their pitifully short attentions spans. Unable to follow the internal logic of their own warped worldviews more than a singe step or two, they never get to the part where those worldviews contradict themselves.

Off-topic side question: Why do so many kooks these days have weird professions like "professional skateboarded" (moronic adult who tried to brain an armed kid with his skateboard in Kenosha) or "professional snowboarder" (deceased Portland murderer)? More to the point, how does one even make a living by riding a skateboard or sliding around on a snowboard? This prompts the broader question; do any of these supposed "antifa" types have real jobs? My favorite economics analyst here, VK, seems to think these "antifa" types are working class, but I believe you have to have held a real job at least once in your life to qualify for that. These "antifa" types, on the other hand, are chronically unemployed, and likely unemployable, adult children of the petit bourgeoisie.

[hint: you don't spend the night rioting if you have to get up for work in the morning]

I'm guessing that these "antifa" types are a mix of lumpenized (unemployable) proletariat and lumpenized petit bourgeoisie (victims of the shrinking American middle class).

Didn't some other famous political organization from the middle of last century draw its shock troops from similar demographics?

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 5 2020 13:41 utc | 185

Who needs cops when there are probably thousands of Rittenhouses just pumped. They KNOW who the bad guys are from years of brainwashing.

Posted by: arby | Sep 5 2020 13:57 utc | 186

Gruff @185

There are professional skateboarders and professional snowboarders. They are very good at what they do. Lots of hobbyists would want the job, very few distinguish themselves sufficiently that anyone would pay to watch them.

Professional means you work and get paid. The characters you cite are just dopes. If they even exist. Lots of stage management going on. How many times do we have to repeat Gulf of Tonkin and weapons of mass destruction and Remember the Maine! before we all figure out that much of this is entirely fake.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 5 2020 13:59 utc | 187

arby @186

Yep, everybody seems to be certain that they know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. All I can say is that all of those filled with that certainty are wrong.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 5 2020 14:02 utc | 188

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 5 2020 13:41 utc | 185

I've already commented here in this blog - many weeks ago, but I did - that I'm very aware the USA is the land of the astroturf, and that I had no doubt in my heart that the BLM and Antifa are astroturf movements. So let's clear that out.

But I also pondered to many here that the American right-wing shouldn't throw the first stone on accusing the left-wing for using astroturf, as they started this trend with the climate change "movements" from the 1970s.

Many anti-BLM, anti-Antifa movements in the USA are also astroturf - as I said and will reiterate: the USA is the nation of astroturf par excellence; practically nobody can go to the streets there without direct backing of at least a local multimillionaire. That's neither left-wing or right-wing: it's just how the USA works nowadays.

That the American left-wing just came late to the party is immaterial to the analysis of the decline of the USA. We should pay attention to the economy, specially post-2008 economy.

Posted by: vk | Sep 5 2020 14:07 utc | 189

....how does one even make a living by riding a skateboard or sliding around on a snowboard?

@Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 5 2020 13:41 utc | 185

Well, I guess the same way one makes a living from kicking a ball during an hour and a half through a field or carrying a ball tightly against the side towards the goal, hitting anyone who intrudes in the way like a stampeding buffalo would do...

"Entertainment business", of which Trump is a mogul, it is called...or "bread and circus" strategy in the fallen Roman Empire...
The wages of which depends on the number of affictionates...there you have that feminine sports usually have lower wages than their male counterparts...based on demand by the public...there is way more males interested in competition sports, by males´own nature..and they are way more interested in indentifying themselves with another male than with a woman...even the most masculine she could appear...

There are also people, few, who make a living out of surfing, mate, or from climibing the higuest mountains, thei is made through sponsors....Pure capitalsim, based on old law of "offer and demand"...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Sep 5 2020 14:26 utc | 190

Perhaps those seeking to dissolve police forces are imagining some kind of community volunteer organization that handles law enforcement in their areas, which I think is a good idea. The problem with this idea is that it has a name: "militia".


Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 5 2020 13:41 utc | 185

----

Actually I think they had "Social Workers" in mind, rather than "militia".

Of course after the first "Social Worker" gets severely wounded or even killed, by someone determined not to be "Socially worked" to, some bright spark will suggest that they travel in groups of 2 or more.


Of course after the first group of 2 or more "Social Workers" gets severely wounded or even killed, by someone or a group of someones determined not to be "Socially worked" to, some bright spark will no doubt suggest giving them the means to defend themselves, some sort of weapon or somesuch.

After that a "Social Worker" will be attacked and possibly killed while using that "means of defence" in order to defend themselves from an attack, by someone capable of more effective use of a means of defence/offence, perhaps even someone with a more effective means of defence.

Some bright spark will then decide there should be some method of publicly identifying "Social workers" so that they are not mistaken for civilians/criminals, when defending themselves using the supplied means of defence.

Some other bright spark will no doubt suggest that the situation would be improved upon through the use of some form of clothing, of a specific design and colour with perhaps a hat and even maybe a badge, signifying that the "Social Worker" is a government-/society-approved "Social Worker" lawfully going about their "Social Worker" business.

And so on and soforth ....

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 14:32 utc | 191

Who needs cops when there are probably thousands of Rittenhouses just pumped. They KNOW who the bad guys are from years of brainwashing.

Posted by: arby | Sep 5 2020 13:57 utc | 186

--
I think Rittenhouse turned out to be correct in identifying the rioting, looting arsonist mob of childrapists, serial domestic abusers and armed robbers, which he was running away from, as "the bad guys".

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 14:36 utc | 192

Circe @Sep5 12:09 #177

To pretend that Russia and Israel both don't favor corrupt Zionist Trump and Pootie and Yahoo won't do everything in their power to see Trump is re-elected is to delude oneself ...

Circe has drunk the "Russia meddles" Kool-Aid.

Why would Russia or China be supportive of either Candidate? USA/Empire policy will remain the same regardless of who the Deep State spokesperson (aka "President") happens to be.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 14:52 utc | 193

The craven loons on the Right love child labor.

So naturally they get an underage kid to do their dirty work.

And urge more to follow in his example by calling Kyle a "hero".

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 14:57 utc | 194

vk @189

America is the historic pinnacle of capitalism. This is ultimate expression of that mechanism for organizing the human economy. Here everything is a commodity, even protest. Especially protest. That's part of why capitalism embraces "identity politics" with such enthusiasm. What could be better (more profitable) than grievance personalized for every individual?

Astroturf is employed by those who can afford it. I rather doubt the working class can afford it these days, and if they could afford it they wouldn't need it as they would have the organized numbers to appear as real grassroots without having to resort to artificial grass. Thus whatever passes for the "left" in the USA today is something far different from a workers' movement.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 5 2020 15:10 utc | 195

Agent Smith wants to police the 'Matrix'.

Good luck with that.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 15:10 utc | 196

William Gruff @ 185
What part of Anti-Facist don’t you understand ?
The rest of the world are sick and tired of your violent ways and having to give you aid money, you people are just benifit scrounges. Yes you Gruffy. Don’t be such a hypocrite, people in class houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Wake up and join the dots, look in the mirror. You’v been brain-washed.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 5 2020 15:10 utc | 197

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 5 2020 14:57 utc | 194

----

It seems there's now a new form of derangement syndrome doing the rounds.

Perhaps we might call it

    "RDS: Rittenhouse Derangement Syndrome

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 15:29 utc | 198

That the American left-wing just came late to the party is immaterial to the analysis of the decline of the USA. We should pay attention to the economy, specially post-2008 economy.
by: vk @ 189

Its difficult express in written words the easy to recognize dissonance between working happy family Americans being forced to pay for their health care, schooling, and for the USA wars conducted in foreign lands. The international USA, as opposed to domestic America, extracts its governing power from home body Americans and franchises parcels of that extracted power to its global feudal international lords (international includes the private fed bank, energy industries, electronics industries, wall street and the bond finance & industries).

GNP economics is not something everyday Americans understand or want. They want local: local business, local government, local tax, local hospitals, and local teachers (but copyright and patent monopoly laws have made that impossible); Americans want federal spy and license everything assholes and their private NGO media 92% owned by six members of the CFR and othersback office media, i call it. and international corporations to stay where ever in the non American world they want to go, but stay the hell out of home and work domestic America. What made America great was competition, and what made competition happen was domestic very local competition, and as one locality would invent something new, most of the other localities would adopt that new into their local economies.

Using the government[USA] to empower Wall Street, Federal Reserve and school book economics is as anti American as inviting the British to again colonize America.

The major cause of the demise in American higher quality of everyday life is Rule of law generated monopolies producing privately owned beneficiaries from the use of USA military force in foreign local places to beat down and defeat reluctant would be competition..

I feel your statement is pro USA and very definitely unAmerican. .

Posted by: snake | Sep 5 2020 15:37 utc | 199

William Gruff @ 185
What part of Anti-Facist don’t you understand ?
.
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 5 2020 15:10 utc | 197

-------

Yes, Mr Gruff, what part "Ministry of Truth" don't you understand?

What part of "Ministry of Peace" don't you understand?

What part of "Mostly Peaceful Rioting" don't you understand?

If the MarkII "Corporate Programming Receiver" Bot (®©™) says "2+2=5" then who are YOU, Mr Winston Gruff, to say otherwise?

Posted by: Contra-Conspiraloon | Sep 5 2020 15:42 utc | 200

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