Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 09, 2020

Afghan Peace Talk Spoiler Bomb Fails To Kill Its Target

On September 9 2001 two suicide bombers killed Ahmad Shah Massoud, the leader of the anti-Taliban Northern Resistance in Afghanistan. Massoud's intelligence chief at that time was the CIA trained Amrullah Saleh.

After the NATO invasion of Afghanistan Saleh became the head of the Afghan National Directorate of Security which was and is seen as CIA controlled. After leading the NDS for several years Saleh went into politics and founded his own party. During the last election cycle, which ended inconclusively, Saleh supported the Afghan president Ashraf Ghani. When negotiation and strong U.S. pressure gave Ghani the presidency Saleh became his first vice president.

Today, on the anniversary of Ahmad Shah Massoud death, someone may have tried to kill him:

At least 10 people have been killed in a roadside bomb attack in the Afghan capital Kabul that targeted First Vice-President Amrullah Saleh.

Mr Saleh, a former head of the Afghan intelligence services, escaped with slight burns on his face and hand.

The bombing came as Afghan officials and the Taliban prepared to begin their first formal talks.

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said in a tweet that the militant group was not responsible for the blast.
...
Tareq Arain, a spokesman for Afghanistan's interior ministry, said the roadside bomb targeted Mr Saleh's convoy as the official travelled to work. Mr Arain said 10 civilians who worked in the area were killed and 15 people, including one of Mr Saleh's bodyguards, were wounded.

The roadside bomb that targeted Saleh was not strong enough to destroy thee armored car Saleh was traveling in.

While many will accuse the Taliban of having planted the bomb I have my doubts. The Taliban want the U.S. to leave Afghanistan. To attack the Vice President just as the peace talks between Taliban and the government are set to begin could prolong the stay of U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

The bomb attack may thus have been a false flag attack.

As the AFP correctly notes:

Known for his combativeness -- and paranoia -- Saleh has rarely wavered in his outspoken hatred of the Taliban and their alleged backers in Pakistan.

The paranoid and experienced former intelligence official takes the same road to work every day?

That is bad intelligence and security practice and sounds suspicious to me.

The Taliban used a roadside bomb that was too small to destroy the armored target?

They have used plenty of roadside bombs against armored military vehicles and they know very well what it takes to destroy those.

That is why I doubt that the AFP analyst has this right:

As the Taliban prepare to sit for peace talks, analysts believe they are desperate to eliminate their fiercest rival.

The Taliban "are now thinking and planning to remove people who might become a headache and obstacle for them when they return", Kabul-based analyst Atta Noori said.

"One of them is Amrullah Saleh. The Taliban don't want another Massoud to fight them until the last breath," he added.

No. Today's attack on Saleh, which created an international outcry, was intended to end all peace talks and to thereby give the U.S. military and the CIA an excuse to stay in Afghanistan. All involved in the current government of Afghanistan depend on the U.S. dollars the occupation forces hand to them.

So for once I agree with this guy:

U.S. Special Representative Zalmay Khalilzad @US4AfghanPeace - 16:49 UTC · Sep 9, 2020

1/3 As peace talks near, spoilers are becoming more desperate in their attempt to disrupt this historic opportunity. Today's attack on @AmrullahSaleh 's convoy is the latest example. Luckily, he survived. Tragically, this terrorist attack killed and wounded many bystanders.

2/3 History has shown that when the opportunity for peace is close, spoilers will go to no end to try and stop it. Afghans are not falling for their trap.

3/3 Afghans know a successful peace process is the only antidote to the country's protracted conflict. Their widespread yearning for peace will be for the two negotiating teams and their leaders' to satisfy.

Who would be the most likely potential spoiler of peace negotiations between the Taliban and the Afghan government?

Could it be a paranoid and Taliban-hating former intelligence leader with strong connections to those parts of the CIA which want to continued to profit from the Afghan drug trade?

Well. Your guess is as good as mine.

But as Khalizad points to spoilers as the most likely source of the bomb he also makes clear that the Trump administrations wants the peace process to continue.

The bomb thus failed to kill its real target.

Posted by b on September 9, 2020 at 17:58 UTC | Permalink

Comments

I suspect the CIA first and foremost.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 18:13 utc | 1

thanks b... ditto karlof1's comment... same deal with navalny - cia, m16 or some such intel org is the likely suspect and can't be ruled out..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2020 18:35 utc | 2

"Trump administrations wants the peace process to continue"

But the CIA is the spoiler.

How can the Trump administration and the CIA be pulling in the same direction if they are on opposite sides of an issue as fundamental as continuing or ending a war?

Trump needs the war over, and in the next couple weeks at most. The CIA needs the war to go on for their off-budget $billions in drug cash. Saying the two are working together on the issue makes no sense, but I am sure the bunny will claim that it is just for show and Trump is just faking that he wants an end to war. The problem with this notion is that in order for Trump to get votes out of trying to end war he must deliver the goods. Americans are weary with empty promises to end wars and need to see results before they believe the promise from a sitting president.

This just adds to the pile of evidence that the Trump administration and the "deep state"/"intelligence community" are not seeing eye-to-eye. That's good. Causes me to grudgingly respect Trump a little.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2020 18:49 utc | 3

The bomb thus failed to kill its real target. The Sunni factions in Saudi Arabia most likely would not be happy to have a Shiite Major Gen Qaseum Soleimani who speaks for all of Islam to be the one too negotiate a settlement arrangement, and probably not interested either in terminating the very profitable on-going war ongoing between private interest in the USA, Israel, Britain, and the struggling governments in Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, India and Iran.

Posted by: snake | Sep 9 2020 18:50 utc | 4

Maybe this brings into context the outburst against "the generals" by Trump? Maybe it wasn't against the Pentagon per se?

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 9 2020 19:01 utc | 5

i think they need to send the same hit squad from ksa that got kashoggi... the usa don't seem to have a problem with the ksa leadership or hit squads... what's a few chopped up body parts between friends??

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2020 19:06 utc | 6

And Saleh is -- gasp -- a friend of Russia.
tweet

Amrullah Saleh @AmrullahSaleh2
Aug 23
Good & fruitful discussions with Amb Dmitry Zhirtov. Afghanistan attaches high importance & value to its relations with Russia a country we see as a neighbor afar.We discussed security, regional issues & I gladly learned that Russian Cultural Center may re-open.

The possibility of Russia coming back in is a US nightmare.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 9 2020 19:09 utc | 7

Oh yea, the greatest living fascist on earth wants the peace process to continue. Tronald is a cute dove looking for universal peace - or so.

It's not a good drift, B, and soon you will note it yourself.

Posted by: pnyx | Sep 9 2020 19:14 utc | 8

My list of suspects, in descending order:

1. The CIA, determined to create an excuse to continue the occupation.

2. Saleh's opponents in the child sex slaver puppet warlord Quisling regime, seeking to kill two birds with one stone, with or without CIA help.

3. Saleh himself, with or without CIA help. The fact that he was, albeit only slightly, injured, argues that either the bomb was stronger than intended or that he was not responsible for it or that he was double crossed by his partners.

4. A genuine assassination attempt unrelated to the insurgency, carried out for revenge by someone Saleh has harmed. Blood feuds are hardly unknown in Afghanistan.

5. A genuine or fake assassination attempt by the Research and Analysis Wing, the extremely incompetent "intelligence" agency of India, which is desperate to keep America in Afghanistan because a Taliban Afghanistan will scupper any prospect of India's sending arms, terrorists and saboteurs to Balochistan through Afghanistan.

6. A genuine assassination attempt by ISIS.

The Taliban figures nowhere in my list of suspects, for obvious reasons.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 9 2020 19:24 utc | 9

... the Trump administrations wants the peace process to continue.

I very much doubt that this is true. Peace-loving Trump vs. the malicious Deep State is a false narrative.

Faux populist Trump is on Team Deep State just as much as faux populist Obama before was.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 19:55 utc | 10

Obama never even used the words "deep state", and never publicly contradicted or criticized the Pentagon or the "intelligence community". Obama never referred to the mass media, which is the biggest part of the disinformation toolkit of the "intelligence community", as "fake news". Doing these things while being in tight with the "deep state" is like a used car salesman pointing out all of the damage and flaws in a car he is trying to sell to you. Trump is a better salesman than that, so he is obviously not trying to get the public to buy what the "deep state" is selling.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2020 20:06 utc | 11

I'm not going to blame the CIA. Seems like the masterminds of the DoD aren't to in to ending the Afghan war. The Democrats wouldn't like it now, and they are the principles behind the color flag American Revolution. The neocon think tanks just hate any war to end, but quite frankly they are showing their collective cognitive decline for some time. FBI seems like the biggest evil in DC, and don't seemed to be limited by US domestic borders. What about the GOP Never Trump crowd? Right now the Never Trumpers are popular, but do they actually have the power and resources? Oh heck...let's blame the Russians for a change. Bet the talking heads will go there and blame Moscow if it makes the news, which it won't.

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Sep 9 2020 20:20 utc | 12

CIA is a branch of US Government.

It is a tool in the hands of the President, personally.

The idea that the CIA is not answerable to, and directed by the President (via chain of command)is absurd.

It carries out Presidential policy and direction.

If someone suborned these Government functionaries to commit acts not flowing from Presidential direction then they will (I guess) be committing some breach of US statute.

The buck starts and stops at the Presidential desk with regard to any action of this arm of the US Government.

Anyone claiming CIA is its own form of Government free from control of the people is suggesting the Congress, and thus the people, no longer fully control their right to govern.

Come on! Really?

Posted by: powerandpeople | Sep 9 2020 20:32 utc | 13

powerandpeople @13

Really.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2020 20:38 utc | 14

In the wilderness of mirrors, maybe "so schlau, dass sie sich schneiden?" Maybe.

The necessary assumptions in this theory that the target was a genuine supporter of peace and wasn't planning to break any and every agreement strikes me as more desperate Trumpery, though. It's Saleh's continued role that is likely to be a major obstacle to any peace agreement, before or after signing. As such, yes, the Taliban does have a motive. Everybody in the higher reaches of the Afghan government is a US collaborator and his continued key role is itself a sign that the US, including Trump, is not negotiating a genuine peace. Particular claims the CIA, an agency under direct presidential control, is somehow pursuing major policies against the will of the incumbent, Trump, are even more Trumpery than usual. It's the *retired* CIA officials taking point against Trump, especially the highest ranks, like Brennan. That level of managers are directly responsible to the president, which means they are tried and tested in their loyalties to previous presidents. (Holdovers in middle management are doing their own thing, because, they're middle management and they don't have the power...unless shocking incompetence from Trump and his key appointees has given them unprecedented latitude.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 9 2020 20:39 utc | 15

powerandpeople @Sep9 20:32 #13

Yeah, that's how it's supposed to work, boy scout.

You've never heard of the JFK assassination and cover-up?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 20:44 utc | 16

@ powerandpeople @Sep9 20:32 | 13... moa as joke channel, lol...

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2020 20:46 utc | 17

Trump doesn't care if there is peace in Afghanistan. Trump just wants to fulfill a campaign promise to grab votes, and bringing a couple thousand troops home will make him a hero.

"Bloody" Gina Haspel lied to Trump about novichoked ducks and kids. No doubt she has lied about a great deal more than that.

The CIA assassinates presidents.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2020 20:47 utc | 18

Trump is the kayfabe President. He's not fighting the Deep State, he's a compatriot by class and character.

He's a partner/team member of the organization that SELECTED HIM for the job. It's a myth that the U.S. President is THE BOSS. Presidential power is circumscribed by "political realities" and Deep State goals.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 21:00 utc | 19

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it. -- Frederic Bastian

At large this is what has occurred, and it's centered within the Outlaw US Empire. The invasion of Afghanistan was always about plunder and a geopolitical program aimed at further plundering, just as was the failed Vietnam project decades before. Unfortunately, the above has yet to be accepted by the entire bar. Trump's dedicated to that purpose as is Biden, as is Pelosi, as is McConnell, and so on and so forth. Nor is that dedication limited to those within the Outlaw US Empire as the UK's Tories and many of those within Labour have the same goal. The Zionists are 100% afflicted with such moral decay as it rules their souls.

I've often used the Herculean task of slaying the Hydra as metaphor for what we face. Most here agree but disagree on the method, while the young have no clue about the Hydra or what it represents.

If the Afghan people really want to gain their freedom, they must kill their own Hydra--the growing of opium.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 21:10 utc | 20


Gruff said:

Trump needs the war over, and in the next couple weeks at most. The CIA needs the war to go on for their off-budget $billions in drug cash.... Americans are weary with empty promises to end wars and need to see results before they believe the promise from a sitting president.
_____________

That is not a very well reasoned paragraph.
The troops are not going to leave Afghanistan in the next few weeks. At best all the American people can possibly get before the election is the promise from a sitting president that the troops will leave and a few actually leaving.

You are right about one thing selling the endless wars is getting harder to do. One thing you can be sure of is that Donald Trump appearing to be against those wars will sell them to a lot more Americans than Donald Trump appearing to be for those wars. Nobody wants to buy a used war from Trump, but there are a lot of Americans who will buy anything if they think trump is against it.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 9 2020 21:13 utc | 21

No way does the CIA want to give up 90% of the world Heroin trade. Billions of $$$$ at stake'

Posted by: par4 | Sep 9 2020 21:41 utc | 22

powerandpeople @13

I'm entirely with Gruff.

However I will expand it: it's not only the CIA wagging the dog but others too including different parts of the CIA, the NSA, various bits and pieces of the Pentagon and various parts in all sorts of nooks and crannies and they do not all agree.

Then of course there is plenty of space for third parties that may or may not represent any of the aforementioned or any foreign governments or any independent actors. Why? Because there is no shortage of strange cases in the US that indicate either obfuscation and misdirection or preparations for potentially serious acts of aggression like knocking out communication infrastructure and energy infrastructure.

No shortage of suspects. POTUS is a shit job where you have to pretend to be in charge and never is and will get very little done unless you have a lot of people across many levels of government backing you.

There isn't simply one deep state, a one-dimensional deep state would be "Yes, Prime Minister" but such a world is long gone and the deep states are not restricted to government bureaucrats and grey eminences (éminence grise (Wikipedia)).

The deep states are ecosystems of power, horsetrading, corruption, and criminality. It doesn't respect borders.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 9 2020 21:47 utc | 23

jinn @Sep9 21:13 #21

... Trump appearing to be against those wars

Keeping up appearances - but also attempting to convince Americans that he is peaceful/peace-loving. Something that would make it easier for him to start a war in his second term.

A populist is supposed to be against war. So Trump is against war. Until he isn't.

Trump has already committed multiple acts of war:

  • USA/Trump attacked Syria with missiles TWICE based on chemical WMD attacks that were not known to be conducted by the Syrian government and were later found to have been conducted by ISIS.
  • USA/Trump occupies Syrian oil fields despite claiming that ISIS is defeated;
  • USA/Trump recognized Golan Heights as Israeli territory despite UN Resolutions that demand that Israel return the Golan Heights to Syria;
  • USA/Trump assassinated an Iranian General;
  • USA/Trump seized Venezuelan State assets and backed a coup;
  • USA/Trump supports Saudi Arabia in it's war against Yemen;
  • USA/Trump reneged on a peace agreement with North Korea.


USA/Trump hasn't brought troops home, just redeployed them.

USA/Trump expanded the military budget and is militarizing space.

USA/Trump blames China for deliberately spreading coronavirus, is arming Taiwan, attempted a 'color revolution' in Hong Kong, and dispute's China's claims in the South China Sea.

USA/Trump, together with Israel, beseeched Russia to allow a bombing of Iran after Iran downed a US drone.

<> <> <> <> <>

Anyone that think Trump "wants peace" is deluded. Trump will do whatever his friends in the Deep State want him to do. He will not stand against war, if that's what they want.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 21:58 utc | 24

At best all the American people can possibly get before the election is the promise from a sitting president that the troops will leave and a few actually leaving.
...
Posted by: jinn | Sep 9 2020 21:13 utc | 21

Are you following his Orange Highness Junior's tweets?


What Exactly Connects the White House, Jerusalem, Belgrade and Pristina?, Aleksandar Pavic
September 9, 202, Strategic Culture Foundation

There is a new, ironic joke making the rounds on Serbian social networks these days: What do a Serb and a Kosovo Albanian say to each other now when parting? Next year in Jerusalem! ...

It should be noted, however, that there may be more to Trump’s interest in reaching some sort of Serbia-“Kosovo” normalization than just pure electioneering, as witnessed by his son’s Tweet from March of this year, calling for the remaining 650 US troops stationed in “Kosovo” to be brought back home.

In any case, no matter the true nature of the agreement, one can be sure that the main beneficiaries to the agreement, Israel and the US, will certainly insist on the fulfillment of what was written, while pushing for the most favorable interpretation of the parts that were supposedly “not clearly defined.


Posted by: Circledancer | Sep 9 2020 22:30 utc | 25

Rabbit @24--

As Escobar noted in 2016, Trump was backed by a faction of the Deep State that opposes the Forever Wars as an undesired drain that brought him into direct conflict with the Clinton/CIA factions. Remember where Trump went right after his Inaugural--CIA HQ to make peace. Somehow, Trump found a way to straddle the fence, not get JFKed and still not launch a Major War with a peer or near-peer opponent. Now, I'm not praising him; I'm just reporting for the record.

What will Trump do when the continuing provocations involving Taiwan and the SCS draw a military response from China? Will he escalate or backoff? I can't read his mind; can you?

On Nord Stream2, Trump has said he's 10000000% against it, but it will cost both Russian and EU corporations $$Billions if it's scrapped. Will Trump okay the killing of Merkel or other high EU officials when they okay the final construction despite the Navalny frame-up?

What will Trump do when Iran commits its next act of atonement for the death of Soleimani? Will he retaliate against Iran and thus invite a response from Russia and China?

China and Russia have both announced their total support for Maduro. Will Trump launch a full-scale invasion of Venezuela given their likely kinetic reply?

And I ought to say the above questions aren't just aimed at you.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 22:33 utc | 26

That's two goddamn times Afghan peace talks have been foiled by bombs this year.

Posted by: Smith | Sep 9 2020 22:58 utc | 27

@ 26 - good questions karlof1... thanks.. maybe some here would like to project how either trump or biden will process the above questions... these issues you raise are not going away nov 3rd, or jan 20th 2021..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2020 23:00 utc | 28

karlof1 @Sep9 22:33 #26

Trump was backed by a faction of the Deep State that opposes the Forever Wars as an undesired drain that brought him into direct conflict with the Clinton/CIA factions.

Conflict with the Clinton's? Trump and his family were close with the Clinton's for years before the election.

One of Trump's first acts after getting elected was to back down on his threat to investigate the Clinton's, saying that "they've been through enough." LOL. Kayfabe election... of the kayfabe President.

=
Somehow, Trump found a way to straddle the fence, not get JFKed and still not launch a Major War ...

Occam's razor says that Presidents are vetted by the Deep State/CIA/TPTB *before* they are elected. So no tightrope-walking is necessary. Except to keep up appearances.

To play the "populist" requires fighting against the establishment, doesn't it? Especially when one is a billionaire insider with a reputation as a con man.

=
What will Trump do when the continuing provocations involving Taiwan and the SCS draw a military response from China? Will he escalate or backoff? I can't read his mind; can you?

Well, I think I've been very clear that reading Trump's mind is unnecessary. The Deep State calls the shots.

They will act in an aggressive but prudent way. For example, hybrid warfare calls for the use of proxies. And if China "lashes out" then they don't get to call on their SCO allies, do they?

Really, the game here is to apply pressure and stir the pot until cracks appear in SCO. Then stir more vigorously at that spot.

=
Will Trump okay the killing of Merkel or other high EU officials when they okay the final construction despite the Navalny frame-up?

No need. Europe will fall in line. Merkel has already punted the decision to "Europe". LOL!

And NATO is on record that Navalny was poisoned (with certainty).

=
Will Trump launch a full-scale invasion of Venezuela given their likely kinetic reply?

Once again, Trump will do what the Deep State wants.

Most likely: USA/Trump will continue with their hybrid warfare.

=
... the above questions aren't just aimed at you.

They are good questions. Overall, I expect that the Deep State will continue to push on all fronts.

<> <> <> <> <>

Adding ...

Both Trump and Biden are Deep-Staters that will do what they are told. But Trump knows that all "great" Presidents are two-term Presidents. And he knows that TWO TERMS means a larger payday in the end. So it's likely that he negotiated for eight years when he agreed to take the job. And the change in policy demanded by the Deep State really requires an eight years.

Reading the tea leaves ... Trump will be re-elected.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 23:12 utc | 29

james @28--

Thanks for your reply! @20 above I cite Bastian who described our reality as it was forming in the 19th Century--a reality all too many are afraid to accept and confront and which exists beyond the Anglosphere. This isn't my blog, but confronting that reality seems to be at the core of what drives Moon of Alabama. The trolls that come here try to justify that reality despite it's clear immorality. The topics here are often the results of that reality not what motivates it or who promotes it--the genuine core questions. For example, here we are presented with more evidence Trump committed Treason with his Do Nothing Policy toward COVID-19, yet we're discussing an event having little relation to any Core Question. IMO, what Woodward learned about Trump's policy ought to rile his own Party and his base as he directly harmed their interests:

"Trump told Woodward in February—10 days after being told by his national security team that the coronavirus was 'the biggest national security threat' he would face—that the coronavirus was an airborne virus and 'more deadly than even your strenuous flu.'

"'You just breathe the air and that's how it’s passed,' Trump said. 'This is deadly stuff.'" [My Emphasis]

But we see zero protests from them--Why? Where are the charges of Treason from the opposition? Pelosi actually said the Republicans are the "Domestic Enemy" but where is her reasoning?

And I'm certain similar questions could be asked by citizens of other nations who share our reality.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 23:38 utc | 30

Maybe it was Islamic State or Isis or Da'esh or good old al-Quaida jihadis brought to Afghanistan from Idlib,trained in CIA bases and continuing an anti-peace bombing campaign.Not the first time the Taliban say they didn' to the slaughter.Yankees just go home please.We can expect the warmongers wanting to stay there to be as close as pôssible to China,Russia and Iran,and keep on throwing obstacles to silk road related development.

Posted by: willie | Sep 9 2020 23:39 utc | 31

jackrabbit wrote:

To play the "populist" requires fighting against the establishment
______________________________

It is hard to believe people have trouble understanding that.

They claim that trump has told 20,000 lies but when it comes to what he says about the "deep state", heavens no Trump would never lie about that.


Posted by: jinn | Sep 9 2020 23:42 utc | 32

...
The paranoid and experienced former intelligence official takes the same road to work every day?
...
The Taliban used a roadside bomb that was too small to destroy the armored target?
...
b, Sept 9, 2020

As Jimmie Rodgers once tunefully mused...

Uh Oh,
Never in a hundred,
Never in a thousand,
Never in a million years.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 9 2020 23:58 utc | 33

Rabbit @29--

Thanks for your reply! Today, Putin held a videoconference with the SCO nation foreign ministers, the transcript of which is unfortunately very scanty. IMO, the SCO weaklink is India, but it won't be allowed to derail or disrupt the SCO; it will be ousted first.

You'll have read the Bastian citation @20 and probably agree that the Deep State is its embodiment. So, perhaps the best way to move forward and cease wasting time and energy debating niggling points of personality(ies) is to treat the Deep State and Outlaw US Empire as one entity but with several competing factions. IMO, major surgery needs to be done on the Core Questions I mention @30 where we might make some headway against our common foe.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 23:58 utc | 34

The deep state is not monolithic. The present deep state still has as members some of the royal families of Europe (from when they didn't need to be deep. they were the state.) Queen Elizabeth is one of the richest women in the world. The royal Dutch family is the biggest stockholder in Royal Dutch Shell. Prince Phillip and Prince Bernard founded the Bilderbergers Families are the main way of keeping continuity of purpose and wealth. Can you say Rothchild? Merchant families joined as feudalism waned. As technology expanded the pie so did the deep state. Can you say Rockefeller? or Agnelli How about Krupp-Thyssen who sell and maintain most of the elevators of the world along with being the biggest conglomerate in Germany.
I imagine the Gates family will now be part for a long time. As the deep state went even more global families from all over the world joined 30 families control the wealth of El Salvador and 500 families Mexico although the drug lords are their own power center) Pablo Ecobar became rich enough but he wasn't from the right family . There is the Gupta family in India among others. I haven't looked into it but I imagine that many of the up to WW2 ziabatsu families in Japan still retain their wealth and power. the OSS and the original CIA were almost entirely populated with New England aristocrat families. The US intelligence agencies and I imagine most of the agencies of the large countries have many agents that do work for the deep state. Richard Helms (former head of the CIA) went to private boarding school in Switzerland with the Shah or Iran. His grandfather was the first president of the Bank of International Settlements after being a banker for the Rockefellers. A comment isn't the place for an in depth examination but this is enough to get the picture. Not all the interests of the deep state inhabitants coincide. Silicon valley members have different interests than the Kochs or the Duponts. The US military has become the enforcement bitch for the Anglo Zionist Empire. Kissinger, Brzezinski Bushes Clintons Blair thsee are the public face who still have to do a kind of work. Jeremy Corbyn was apparently not compromised so he had to go along with any non corrupt nationalsts) even if he's not I am sure he has seen that film and these days "they" will target family members like Ivanka) The people who brought you the Clintons are not happy with him. One doesn't have to guess that billie Boy was compromised. the Bushes represented one faction. the clintons another. So there is a fight. We might learn something of the deep state if we pay attention. It's a big club but we anin't in it.

Posted by: gepay | Sep 10 2020 0:24 utc | 35

insert Trump is certainly compromised. after corrupt nationalists.

Posted by: gepay | Sep 10 2020 0:29 utc | 36

@13 power and people

That is one of the most naive comments I have seen on MoA in on long time!

Posted by: Jason | Sep 10 2020 0:30 utc | 37

gepay @35--

Thanks for your contribution! The Rentier Class indeed. Those who fancy themselves Kings and Queens and have fashioned the system described @20 above and now profusely profit from it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 10 2020 0:32 utc | 38

Anyone claiming CIA is its own form of Government free from control of the people is suggesting the Congress, and thus the people, no longer fully control their right to govern.

Come on! Really?

powerandpeople | Sep 9 2020 20:32 utc | 13:

I second William Gruff.   Yes.   Really.

Posted by: Ian2 | Sep 10 2020 0:35 utc | 39

Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 21:00 utc | 19

Trump is the kayfabe President.

Trump is the covfefe president

Posted by: DeQuincey | Sep 10 2020 0:59 utc | 40

Anyone claiming CIA is its own form of Government free from control of the people is suggesting the Congress, and thus the people, no longer fully control their right to govern.

Come on! Really?

Posted by: powerandpeople | Sep 9 2020 20:32 utc | 13

The Congress sold out first, and sold out long ago. I was once surprised like you, that they would abjure to use their own power, that they would sell themselves out, but they did, and they do.

Governing is work, they don't want to work. They don't have time to work, they are too busy "making calls". Take a good look at Pelosi and the disaster her "reign" has been. Head enabler all the way, that's Pelosi.

Speaking of which I've had three big expensive packages from Biden now, a lot of money being thrown out the window, if they think I would send them a nickel.

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 10 2020 1:04 utc | 41

Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2020 21:58 utc | 24
To your list, I would add Bolivia. The world seems to have forgotten they exist since the coup fell off "the front pages".

karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 22:33 utc | 26
I'd been giving a bit of thought to the whole Nordstream2 / Merkel / Navalny thing, and a thought occurred to me.
With the NSA having bugged Frau Merkels' phone from 2002-2015 (according to Wikileaks dump of NSA intercepts), which means they (the US) may well have enough dirt on her to get her to do their bidding.
She seemed to jump on the "Navalny was poisoned" bandwagon a little too quickly for my liking (although she may be flicking responsibility aside to the EU), and the claimed Belorussian intercept of the call betwixt Germany and Poland seems to add another clue as to what may be transpiring behind the scenes.
If Nordstream2 is killed off, it would add credence to my thinking that they have a big, dirty, bag o' laundry on Frau Merkel (and quite likely many other German MPs also).

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Sep 10 2020 1:13 utc | 42

The US mil want to stay even longer in Afghanistan because of recent Chinese advances in the region. Long term US mayor non NATO "ally" Pakistan mil is switching sugar daddy from Uncle Sam & Saudi king to Dragon king Xi. The PLA is also quite active around Ladakh/ Kashmir via their 'Belt and Road' excuse and their hysterical map making skills (see South China sea). Sudetenland comes to mind.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 10 2020 1:26 utc | 43

@ Antonym 43
The PLA . . .
China has done nothing wrong, despite Pompeo's charges. The Kashmir situation has been caused by India and don't believe Pompeo on SCS. The US provocations, including sailing naval ships in China waters, have had no effect. Regarding staying in Afghanistan, of course the US never leaves any country voluntarily.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 10 2020 2:07 utc | 44

karlof1 30

"here we are presented with more evidence"

I followed your link, and I was quite surprised to find absolutely zero evidence there. Your link is to a common dreams article. There is a link in that article that says "released audio recordings", but when you click on that link it takes you to a washington post article. There are no links to an audio in the wp article. I assume you have not heard the recording either or you would have linked to it.

So the question is: What exactly did you feel was "evidence" in your link? All I found was hearsay.

This is the MSM, it is not to be trusted ever, yet whenever one of these propaganda outlets says something that agrees with your world view, you take it as gospel. This is a fatal weakness in your quest to defeat the 'hydra'.

I mostly enjoy your posts, and I often agree with you.

Also, I think it all but certain that trump/us gov knew how deadly the virus was from the beginning, and was totally unprepared to deal with it, so they tried to play it down. I would be shocked to find out he would be so stupid as to say it while being recorded.

If he did I would love to hear it.

For the most part this is more kabuki theater.

Posted by: visak | Sep 10 2020 2:25 utc | 45

Jon_in_AU @Sep10 1:13 #42

Yes. Thanks.

No doubt there are also others. Like moving troops from Germany to Poland, perhaps?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 2:38 utc | 46

Anyone who doubts that we remain in Afghanistan to protect the opium trade should watch this 10-minute video with the details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbMtlSCjLcc&

Posted by: Carlton Meyer | Sep 10 2020 2:38 utc | 47

Antonym @Sep10 1:26 #43

Excellent and concise strategic overview.

If I may be so bold: the game is afoot.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 2:41 utc | 48

DeQuincey @Sep10 0:59 #40

Trump is the covfefe president.

Haha... hoisted on his own petard peturbed!

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 2:45 utc | 49

DeQuincey @Sep10 0:59 #40

Trump is the covfefe president.

Haha... hoisted on his own petard peturbed!

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 2:45 utc | 50

Just repeat after me (if you agree) and you will qualify. . .

Trump is deep-state even given that he --
> unexpectedly (his candidacy initially ridiculed) won a presidential election not on total vote but thanks to the constitutional electoral college vote
> has been enemy #1 of the DNC/FBI/CIA cartel which falsified evidence to 'get Trump'
> was the DNC-backed FBI/CIA target of a ridiculous "Russia collusion" charge and drawn-out investigation which had no basis
>must still endure, despite a lack of evidence, the charge that Russia 'has something' on Trump
> has not started nor supported any wars, to the extent of former presidents with millions of dead, wounded & displaced and tens of thousands of troops overseas
> was impeached on flimsy charges including using Biden's name in a phone call to Ukraine
>has verbally assaulted the 'war on terror' and 'endless war,' deep-state staples
> has taken on corporate supply chains to China -- wants to end them! (doesn't understand that corp's run the US, not the opposite)
> has proven beyond doubt that with a short attention span he is capable of insulting everybody, aligning with nobody and listening to nobody

. . .Thanks, you qualify for the hare-brained club!!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 10 2020 3:45 utc | 51

I'm not sure how all of this fits in with b's foundational post here, but thanks to Don Bacon for providing me a chuckle on my way to bed as some sort of climate glitch has brought snow to our mountains a day after 90 degrees plus had been the norm.

I'll just suggest to folk that a good read on the subject of the plans and plots of nefarious folk is Dostoievski's "The Devils". They turn out to be puny in the end and not half as clever as they think they are...Nightie night!

Posted by: juliania | Sep 10 2020 4:29 utc | 52

juliania | Sep 10 2020 4:29 utc | 52

I'll add a +1 for that title.
Cheers.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Sep 10 2020 4:32 utc | 53

You join the think-for-self club if you find that:

> Trump's associations with close associates of his supposed enemies: Gina Haspel (acolyte of John Brennan), Mike Pence (besties with John McCain), William Barr (close with the Bushes and Mueller), and the Clintons is rather strange;

> MAGA Trump's sword dancing with the Saudi King in his first 100 days in office is very very weird;

> Trump experience in professional wresting and close association with the McMann family leaves you dumbfounded;

> Propaganda by and about Trump

  • "political outsider!" - yet he is chummy with all the top asshats;

  • "peaceful/peace-loving!" - yet he is a bully that engages in multiple acts of war and hires people like - Bolton and Abrams;

  • "stable genius" - that can't stop bragging about taking a simple cognitive test;
doesn't comport with the reality of an egotistical con man that has cheated thousands, failed at multiple business ventures, raised racial tensions, and used abused his nonprofit Foundation for personal gain.

> the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot multiple times is nonsensical;

> Obama's "Change You Can Believe In" faux populism and his willingness to engage in proxy wars, illegal bombing, color revolution, and droning weddings was shocking enough to ask: WTF? ==> U.S. political system is clearly broken and Trump is as much a product of that system as Obama;

> Your knowledge of history is sufficient to see that USA f*cked Russia royally with 'shock therapy' in the 1990's and that an alliance between Russia and China is the worst nightmare of the USA Deep State. Thus, when Russia blocked USA in Syria in 2013 and Ukraine in 2014, the Deep State was rattled. Kissinger's WSJ Op-Ed of August 2014 urged USA to revive it's historical glory to counter Russia and China (essentially MAGA) and Trump entered the race for President 10 months later as the MAGA Nationalist/Populist.

Trump's job is to be belligerent, distracting, and unpredictable because that suits the Deep State's goal of hybrid war with multiple nations. If the establishment complains about it, it's only kayfabe.

Afterall, money-hungry social-climber Donald J. Trump LOVES the establishment. And also no doubt looks forward to the big bucks that he and his family will receive after he leaves office in 2025. After leaving office the Clinton's raised over a billion dollars for the nonprofits that they control. And Obama made $70 million within a year of leaving office. You can bet that Trump has arranged a YUUGE reward for himself when his two terms are done.

Only Trump apologists think Trump is a selfless patriot with a kind heart. Trump's work with the Deep State also benefits Trump financially (besides stroking his ego). Naturally. Because THAT is the real Donald Trump.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 5:11 utc | 54

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2020 22:33 utc | 26

All good questions. I suspect he would back off from a military response to a country that could do serious harm. I believe the Generals will prevail in cases where the US would receive a severe military response. I read the US was going to respond to the Iranian missile attack on their bases in Iraq but were informed that Iran would respond to that very hard so backed off.

Where a military response isn't required the US will huff and puff and announce more sanctions. What I am concerned about is that game of chicken the US is playing. Here is an example. The US, similar to the antics the Zionist's air force in Occupied Palestine, are hiding behind commercial aircraft, risking civilian lives.

"On Tuesday, a US spy plane was spotted seeming to disguise itself as a Malaysian aircraft as it “patrolled intensively” between China’s Hainan Island and the Paracel Islands, which Beijing claims as well. The dangerous maneuver poses the risk of confusing civilian and military aircraft, which in the past has resulted in deadly airliner shootdowns."

Then there was the recent provocation of B-52's flying off in all directions over NATO countries and that puppet state that isn't really a state Ukraine. Then there are the minor provocations such as Mad Max Redux in the Syrian desert with the Russians.

These provocations, playing chicken are fine (aren't really) as long as it's all shits and giggles. But what happens when someone giggles and shits, or where Israel goes too far in a military strike on Iran and Iran responds? I think the ROE Iran has established are quite clear. Will Uncle Sam come to the rescue to really screw things up? I'm not sure if the law of diminishing returns applies here but one day someone will make a mistake and someone will compound that mistake and then we are off to the races where no one will finish, let alone place first. We will be well down the rabbit hole along with Rumsfeld's known unknowns.

https://sputniknews.com/military/202009081080401801-us-spy-plane-impersonates-malaysian-aircraft-to-fly-close-to-chinese-airspace---report/

Posted by: Tom | Sep 10 2020 5:26 utc | 55

@55 Tom

Many thanks for this comment. It's very finely parsed, very granular. The answer to each confrontational crisis, I think, will be sliced equally thinly with the tactics that cause them, the tactics that you examine so minutely. And this is a crucial point.

These are, after all, quite thin slices of aggression that we witness nowadays, compared with the "thunder-hammer" capability of the US and Israel, as still described by their propaganda and legacy reputations from earlier times, and still portrayed through the compliant Wurlitzer.

I believe that the Iranian ROE that you cite is the guiding benchmark for all nations of courage today who wish to defend themselves from the US. Iran showed something very important to all in the world who cared to see it. It showed that you can exact retribution at scale with the offense, and not receive the excess retribution in return, the "thunder hammer", which is now revealed as a phantom, an incapacity rather than a capacity, purely the stuff of myth and legend.

And the reason for the incapacity is that neither the US nor Israel can suffer the pain of retribution equal to the provocation they technically can still inflict, but won't unless against one who won't fight back. They can't take the pain - their domestic arrangements don't allow it.

~~

It's good that they provoke in thin slices. They offer a 13% outrage and receive a 12% response, or perhaps a 15% response. And they don't know which they will receive - it will be equally thin but it may be slightly lesser or slightly greater.

We're going to assume that the US will continue to be ruled by chickenshit generals who will allow minor provocations to proceed from the US polity to see what results, but who will also stop and take a slapping when it's delivered as a response.

What this means is that if anyone goes too far across the line the entire west will stop in fear, and tremble, awaiting the response. And perhaps that fear is actually enough.

~~

Consider the situation currently with Israel, whose soldiers wait every day on "one and a half legs" (i.e. poised ready to flee) for the response from Hezbollah in retribution for the killing of one of its soldiers. Sayed Nasrallah has proclaimed explicitly that the anguish of trepidation that the IDF suffers is part of the punishment. The killing will come when Hezbollah sees the right opportunity. It is not Hezbollah that waits anxiously for the moment, it is Israel.

More could be said about this fear that Israel manifests - I'd like to explore it, and I should leave it for an open thread. It's very compelling in terms of how an oppressor has actually defeated itself through a self-cultivated psychic weakness. One can tell from Nasrallah's speeches that he himself is drawn with great curiosity to the examination of how and why this comes to be. We will hear more about all this.

Meanwhile, as we watch, the slices of increased depravity in the west seem almost to correlate with the slicing away of its strength. And the adversary - i.e. the oppressed land struggling to throw off the oppression - the adversary sees this.

We too on the sidelines can watch and wonder, and perhaps perceive the benchmarks, and perhaps one day soon understand that the time of the killing blow is at hand, and maybe we can stop this madness in its tracks. And maybe the crazed bull simply falters, and its heart stops from sheer overreach, and the world can step nimbly to the side as it falls. But either way, we will know this enemy better than it knows itself, and this in the hands of any competent general is already victory.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2020 6:47 utc | 56

Friends of the CIA 😉

Pakistani Army-ISI hand evident in attack on Afghan Vice President Amrullah Saleh

Posted by: Oui | Sep 10 2020 7:25 utc | 57

Being anti-conspirationist by essence, I would rather assume that the bomb has been simply etonated too early or too late. Then despite all their knowledge, Talibans may still be added to the culprit list without the need to resort to conspirators. B is removing the Taliban waay too fast.

Posted by: murgen23 | Sep 10 2020 7:36 utc | 58

Shouldn't anyone point out that rearranging US troops is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic? For whatever reasons the US is signalling that they can't both maintain their presence as-is as well as increase the aggressive stances against Russia and China and others.

Also for whatever reasons the US finds itself having an embarrassing amount of trouble disengaging and moving the deck-chairs around, this to the extent that cost-saving "efficiency" measures involved shutting down something as symbolic as the Stars and Stripes newspaper (and then the POTUS stepped in and vetoed the decision).

I think some people underestimate just how stuck the US is, they'll need help to get out of the quicksand but everything so far says they'll never find it within themselves to ask for it or rather beg for it, they've tried bullying people into helping but it didn't make much difference.

They're chest deep, if not neck.

Whoever attempted the assassination has every reason to try again or to do something else to achieve whatever was the motive if a "failure" wasn't enough (and intended), and there's no use in asking "What will Trump do?" because the whole point of anything further is to make sure he doesn't have much or anything to do.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 10 2020 8:01 utc | 59

it could be as presented, or could be either a small faction within the taliban or a rare discipline issue

Posted by: Olivio D | Sep 10 2020 9:48 utc | 60

karlof1 @34

That is the proper way to look at the issue, in my view. The personalities do not matter in the bigger picture, and what the individuals who are in public-facing roles in the empire want personally also doesn't matter. What is more important is to recognize that the leadership of the empire is not unified. While this lack of unity of direction and consensus among the oligarchy weakens the oligarchy, it also makes it more unpredictable (as if we (humanity) needed any more sources of risk in the current period!). This increases the probability of more irrational moves being made out of desperation by the empire, like the bio attacks on China and the assassination of Soleimani. The empire becomes more inclined to take actions that it would have dismissed, or at least thought more deeply about, in prior periods.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 10 2020 10:09 utc | 61

Perhaps the red flag is still aloft.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 10 2020 10:19 utc | 62

karlof1 @ 20

If the Afghan people really want to gain their freedom, they must kill their own Hydra--the growing of opium

the Afghan people(Taliban Pashtun) effectively eradicated the cultivation of opium in 2000 simply by declaring the growing of poppies to be un-Islamic. after the Americans invaded in 2001 production soared and bumper crops have pretty much been consistent since.

if the Afghan people want to gain their freedom, they must storm their own Bastille, and kill or vanquish their occupiers(or wait another twenty years for them to leave). the Americans only control the territory they are actually standing on...and sometimes not even that...

remember Camp Chapman?

Posted by: john | Sep 10 2020 10:38 utc | 63

> unexpectedly (his candidacy initially ridiculed) won a presidential election not on total vote but thanks to the constitutional electoral college vote
_________
It was only unexpected if you had been misled and duped by the MSM narrative.


> has been enemy #1 of the DNC/FBI/CIA cartel which falsified evidence to 'get Trump'
__________

That is called kayfabe. You have to be an idiot to believe that they wanted to "get Trump" but failed. Its not that they failed once they failed hundreds of times. How many times do you have to be told the Bombshell News that it is the end of the Trump presidency before you realize you are being repeatedly conned?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppGj5FOFckM


> was the DNC-backed FBI/CIA target of a ridiculous "Russia collusion" charge and drawn-out investigation which had no basis
_______________________________
The investigation was drawn out for two years not by the DNC or FBI or CIA. The Mueller investigation was run by the Trump Administration for the benefit of the Trump Administration .

>must still endure, despite a lack of evidence, the charge that Russia 'has something' on Trump
_________________________

And now the people still clinging to that phony story are looking like fools and that is still helping Trump get reelected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W82VHYv_T7Y


> has not started nor supported any wars, to the extent of former presidents with millions of dead, wounded & displaced and tens of thousands of troops overseas
_____________________________________

And yet the millions are still dying or being wounded or displaced. The number of US troops overseas was the lowest level in nearly 70 years when Trump took office and it went up from there.


> was impeached on flimsy charges including using Biden's name in a phone call to Ukraine
______________________

More kayfabe (fake battles). You have to be an idiot to believe that the best the CIA can come up with to blow the whistle and discredit Trump is that he bad-mouthed Biden in a phone call


>has verbally assaulted the 'war on terror' and 'endless war,' deep-state staples
________________________
Trump is pretending to be a populist. He says things that are popular.


> has taken on corporate supply chains to China -- wants to end them! (doesn't understand that corp's run the US, not the opposite)
___________________________________
Corporations have made huge profits selling Chinese goods to American consumers. American consumers are the golden goose if you kill the golden goose then what?

> has proven beyond doubt that with a short attention span he is capable of insulting everybody, aligning with nobody and listening to nobody
__________________________

That is your delusional thinking (TDS). Trump has support of many Americans and is likely to win again because he has the support of the relatively small number of critical swing voters that will again win the electoral college.

Posted by: jinn | Sep 10 2020 13:58 utc | 64

Meanwhile, as we watch, the slices of increased depravity in the west seem almost to correlate with the slicing away of its strength. And the adversary - i.e. the oppressed land struggling to throw off the oppression - the adversary sees this.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2020 6:47 utc | 56

Well put.

Posted by: Tom | Sep 10 2020 14:38 utc | 65

If people have formulated a concept of the "Deep State" where the leaders are widely known and they pursue their handful of policy clashes more or less openly and the mechanisms of their power are legal things like cash for political campaigns, revolving doors between government and business, favoritism in privileges and prosecutions, or even things that are public knowledge, like the laws supporting a two-party only system, or even in the Constitution, like the unrepresentative Senate and the Electoral College...the thing then is not that this is an unsophisticated conspiracy theory. The question for this version is, how is this not just the state as it really is, not in the schoolchild's version of democracy? The only reason for calling regular owners' politics a "Deep State" is to manufacture a strawman who is supposedly being fought by alleged hero Trump.

As to that? Don Bacon wrote:
"
Trump is deep-state even given that he --
> unexpectedly (his candidacy initially ridiculed) won a presidential election not on total vote but thanks to the constitutional electoral college vote
> has been enemy #1 of the DNC/FBI/CIA cartel which falsified evidence to 'get Trump'
> was the DNC-backed FBI/CIA target of a ridiculous "Russia collusion" charge and drawn-out investigation which had no basis
>must still endure, despite a lack of evidence, the charge that Russia 'has something' on Trump
> has not started nor supported any wars, to the extent of former presidents with millions of dead, wounded & displaced and tens of thousands of troops overseas
> was impeached on flimsy charges including using Biden's name in a phone call to Ukraine
>has verbally assaulted the 'war on terror' and 'endless war,' deep-state staples
> has taken on corporate supply chains to China -- wants to end them! (doesn't understand that corp's run the US, not the opposite)
> has proven beyond doubt that with a short attention span he is capable of insulting everybody, aligning with nobody and listening to nobody..."

Taking each point in order...

Don Bacon is wrong.

All this is somehow supposed to prove Trump is an enemy of the very, very wicked Deep State and therefore we have to support this, because Trump is therefore the lesser evil. That argument is no more valid than the one where we have to support Biden etc. because Trump is the fascist devil. There is no kind of fascism in the US which will look like Nazi Germany, because the US won WWI (defeat in WWI being a prime cause of their national bourgeoisie accepting fascist dictatorships to restore lost glories...or like Japan, to conquer a new empire against bigger winners of WWI) Both positions fail, not just on the facts (neither Trump nor Biden are fighting the good fight,) but because of one simple principle, the one that makes the Duopoly so potent a weapon for the owners: *It is impossible (IMPOSSIBLE!) to vote against someone in the Duopoly.* It's always a vote for someone, and if choices are arranged to be limited, then there is no genuine free election, no genuine democracy. Given the widespread insistence that majority rule is somehow antidemocratic, instead of minority rule being undemocratic. This is not a free country in the sense usually meant. What is usually meant by "free" is, the invisible whip of the market will keep the masses in line.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 10 2020 16:49 utc | 66

Excuse the omission?

Taking each point in order...

Don Bacon is wrong.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 10 2020 16:52 utc | 67


Taking each point in order...
>The insistence on pretending the EC is legitimately democratic in a way a mere popular vote is not, *is* endorsing the class rule of the owners, which is the only sensible meaning of Deep State.
>Hilary Clinton has been the #1 enemy of some security people, such as the ones who pretended there was more to Benghazi than Clinton loyally covering up CIA arms dealings or FBI director Comey intervening against her in the election. And the DNC is not a Leninist central committee, much less the directing agency of the CIA and FBI. An imaginary chain of command is better known as a lie, rather than an argument.
>Clinton was the target of an absurd and endless investigation with no basis, the email server nothingburger. If this kind of dirty politics shows Trump is an enemy of the Deep State, it proves Clinton was too. Double standards, where proof for one isn't proof for the other, is double talk, not truth.
>Trump has not ended a single war, has continued every single one. So far as not getting US forces engaged in a massive war, this is true of both Carter and Obama. Trump has exceeded Obama in other forms, such as drone murder. Trump has extended covert war into Africa, as witness the Niger fiasco. And frankly, given the general distaste for Carter and Obama (who did not, not, not send US forces to Libya---thank you Cameron and Sarkozy for that one!) as pussies, the discovery by shady characters they love the peaceable kingdom of Trump is, well, the claim is not convincing.
>Clinton was impeached on flimsy charges. Anyone who pretends not telling the truth on a personal matter that doesn't damage the nation, and really isn't anyone else's business either, but loves Trump is a professional at gagging on gnats after swallowing camels.
>The war on terror was very much a Republic (NOT A DEMOCRACY!) Party thing. As leader of the Republic Party Trump is a proponent of the Deep State doctrine of endless war, on Venezuela and Iran and Africans. Verbal assaults are worth the paper they're written on, anyhow. And, yes, the weasel words "to the extent..." mean this isn't even an honest argument.
>If Trump actually wanted to take on the supply chains to China, Trump would actually carry out, or at least attempt to carry out, an actual industrial policy, promoting real investment in the US, not least, government investment in infrastructure. Confusing Trump's silly idea that his decrees on tariffs are all-powerful weapons to force better trade deals with a genuine economic nationalism is either ignorant or dishonest. Sorry, there is no in-between. Not all dichotomies are false, and not all golden means exist.
>Trump trashing politics and government is only a problem is the rich people don't want to give up the government working to provide services to the majority of the population. A government that collect taxes for armies and does nothing else seems to me to be very much the current ruling class agenda.

Don Bacon is wrong.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 10 2020 16:54 utc | 68

For the record, apparently is you have the arrow pointing backwards (as symbolic corrections to Bacon's nonsense,) then it doesn't post. Who knew? Not me.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 10 2020 16:55 utc | 69

@steven t johnson #69:

apparently is you have the arrow pointing backwards . . . then it doesn't post

That is because the “less than” character (<) is used as the starting character of HTML tags.

Also, Don Bacon is right. Whatever positives could be gained by duping the public with the alleged “Trump–Deep State kayfabe” are dwarfed by the negatives of creating such a deep national divide in the U.S, U.S. politics becoming a laughing stock for the world, etc. Therefore, it’s not kayfabe.

Posted by: S | Sep 10 2020 18:08 utc | 70

visak @45--

You must have missed a few things. I rarely cite this writer, but she's correct this time. I'll echo Carl Bernstein's condemnation:

"[The Do Nothing Policy's] one of the great presidential felonies of all time."

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 10 2020 18:22 utc | 71

Modern day humans are conditioned to believe in the cult of personality,and are very invested in the cardboard cutouts they are presented with: Saint Obama, Orange Man Bad etc. The core issues are to be found elsewhere. Geostrategic: Poised above Iran, cozy with Pakistan, and able to interdict the Belt and Road. It's also convenient to be able to monkeywrench in the other "Stans" closer to Russia. Tons and tons of mineral wealth, and the heroin trade they will never let go of. It's very likely that the spoiler came from agents who want this to keep going, but it really does not seem all that important who.
The Spice must flow.

Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 10 2020 18:31 utc | 72

S @Sep10 18:08 #70

Whatever positives could be gained by duping the public with the alleged “Trump–Deep State kayfabe” are dwarfed by the negatives ...

Well, then please explain how the TPTB would tell the American people that USA is going to to pursue a course of action that could result in financial distress or war. Because those are real possibilities in a Thucydides Trap situation.

And of course, to overcome the people's resistance against your hazardous pursuit, you'll promise them all the spoils of war if one were to occur right? How can you show that you really mean that? Only by redistributing wealth to prove that we're all in this together. You're oligarch friends won't like that.

LOL. Maybe it's just better to fool the dumf*ck public, huh? And keep all the spoils for yourself and your friends.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2020 20:22 utc | 73

Maybe the attack was aimed at disrupting the announcement by CENTCOM that followed saying that 4000 of the remaining 8500 US forces (presumably excluding mercenaries, sorry contractors) still left there.

Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 10 2020 20:55 utc | 74

S@70 Thanks for the explanation.

Don Bacon wasn't explaining why it would be ridiculous for a Deep State to run a Donald Trump as some sort of diversion. That's your point, and it's correct. But Don Bacon was explaining how Trump was an enemy of the Deep State, which is nonsense, because all the arguments for that also show others were and are enemies of the Deep State, and all the facts supporting this claim aren't factual, either or too weaselly to take seriously. The notion of a Deep State merely confuses analysis, which no doubt is why many find it so compelling. There is a hidden presumption there that capitalism and/or pure democracy as embodied in the USA simply must work gloriously and the only explanation for why it doesn't is nefarious doings by Bad People. Capitalism has run out its time of usefulness for human progress. And pure democracy is a subterfuge, there's only democracy for the ruling class.

The fundamental cause of embarrassments like Trump is that the system is crazy, the owners can't solve the problems and in their desperate flailing about they are giving up on a government that actually works. Trump is basically a guy fire selling the stock, wearing out the equipment, looting the employee pension fund and shrinking government to nothing but the servant of plutocrats, the nation be damned. The bourgeoisie doesn't want incompetents, but they are too bankrupt, intellectually, financially, and morally to pay for good government.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 10 2020 23:30 utc | 75

karlof1@71

Thanks for posting that link with some of the recordings. That is not the same link you posted up thread. I would say that the link you posted here, is perhaps evidence, (although not hearing the parts they didn't share with us makes me a little skeptical), but the first one was evidence free.

The clips sound pretty damning, although, I don't like only getting pieces of a conversation. I would prefer to hear the entire conversation so I can judge for myself if the clips are being portrayed in context. I am gonna guess they are not, but we will see.

I feel the need to post a disclaimer stating I am not a trump supporter.

Posted by: visak | Sep 11 2020 1:39 utc | 76

Thank you b.

It is vital to recall that the death of Massoud came about in an interview with a TV news team that had been fully checked and allowed access by Saleh. One or both cameras were bombs and everyone was killed. It seems like it was a suicide mission.

Saleh was 'lucky' as he was not present for that interview. How he survived a revenge hit by Massoud's team following the assassination is worthy of consideration. Perfidious Albion and its USA allied dogs are not above suspicion.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 11 2020 3:06 utc | 77

"The bomb attack may thus have been a false flag attack."

If it were a false flag attack, yet failed to kill Saleh, then it seems quite possible that Saleh pushed the button himself.

Who else would be in a better position to destroy the convoy without seriously injuring him or his son? And, it's in keeping with his being Massoud's CIA-trained intelligence chief when Massoud was killed.

Posted by: David Wooten | Sep 11 2020 13:53 utc | 78

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