Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 13, 2020

United Arab Emirates Betray Palestine

U.S. President Donald Trump just announced that the United Arab Emirates and Israel "agreed to full normalization" of their relations and that they will "establish reciprocal embassies".

In exchange Israel will "suspend declaring sovereignty" over parts of the West Bank land that it, for all intent and purpose, has already annexed and controls.

Here is the term sheet Trump posted. It is headlined as a "Joint Statement" of the U.S., Israel and the UAE:


bigger

While the UAE and Israel have been in bed together for decades they never established formal relations.

This will create waves in the Arab world. It is treason towards the Palestinian cause and its supporters. The Arab boycott of Israel was always supposed to press Israel towards recognizing the rights of the Palestinians. Netanyahoo had claimed that he could make peace with Arab states before making peace with the Palestinians. The UAE has now proven him right.

This is a huge political success for Netanyahoo. His previous moves to formerly annex parts of the West Bank were never serious. But he has now used that to 'pay' for a deal that is a much bigger win for him.

This is also a huge success from Trump's perspective. His many pro-Zionist voters and donors will show their gratitude for this.

The announcement does not say what the United Arab Emirates is expecting to receive for the deal. It may claim that it stopped the annexation of the West Bank but that annexation would not have happened anyway.

UAE's ruler Mohamed Bin Zayed seems to disagree with a detail that Trump posted:

محمد بن زايد @MohamedBinZayed - 15:00 UTC · Aug 13, 2020

During a call with President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu, an agreement was reached to stop further Israeli annexation of Palestinian territories. The UAE and Israel also agreed to cooperation and setting a roadmap towards establishing a bilateral relationship.

"Setting a roadmap towards establishing a bilateral relationship" differs from the claim in Trump's term sheet that the parties "agreed to full normalization".

Netanyahoo also seems to disagree with Trump's declaration:

avi scharf @avischarf - 15:36 UTC · Aug 13, 2020

This is hilarious. Senior Israeli source now says Israel still committed to annexation and that Trump only asked for a temporary freeze until peace deal with UAE is signed. Seems like Bibi is afraid of losing the settlers and his base in case we are heading for elections.

It is likely that there will be protests in Arab countries against this step. Support for the Palestinian cause has weakened in the younger generation. But for many older Arabs it is still a very serious matter.

As MbZ has nothing to show for the huge gift he is handing to Netanyahoo and Trump the rage will concentrate on him.

Posted by b on August 13, 2020 at 16:04 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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As MbZ has nothing to show for the huge gift he is handing to Netanyahoo and Trump the rage will concentrate on him.

Posted by b on August 13, 2020 at 16:04 UTC | Permalink

could it be that MbZ got Yemen or the Kurds in Syria and Iraq out of the deal.. ?? money is not the issue..

Posted by: snake | Aug 13 2020 16:29 utc | 1

It was a talk by Avi Shlaim in July that convinced me that Netanyahu wouldn't go through with the annexation, and now that seems to be the case (though hedged around with 'delays' and 'postponements', it will never happen).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAV4s1_VOK8

The argument was that that would make Israel legally and definitively an apartheid state, and that Netanyahu is a man of the status quo. Meaning in this case that he would prefer to remain in doubt, as they do with nuclear weapons.

In the case of the Emirates, they don't have a population who can object to the princes' decisions (or more correctly: caprices). As the Saudi prince said of a neighbouring country: "Qatar is 300 princes and a television station".

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 16:29 utc | 2

Another point by Shlaim was that the annexation plan came from the Trump family (i.e. Jared et al), not from Netanyahu, but the latter could hardly say no.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 16:37 utc | 3

A hastily organized press meeting ... Netanyahu was pulled out of a cabinet meeting (!) due to a National security concern ... perhaps just a need to change the media headline of the day.

Israel just put the annexation on temporary hold and the Crown Prince of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi agreed to a “Road Map towards peace and diplomatic ties.” As Jared would describe such a meeting: “a nothing burger.”

Original article on Israel Defense website ...

Amazing findings change the story of the Beirut blast

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/44662

Posted by: Oui | Aug 13 2020 16:47 utc | 4

Netanyahoo had claimed that he could make peace with Arab states before making peace with the Palestinians. The UAE has now proven him right.

I think he was proven right with his secret arrangements with Saudi Arabia. But the Saudis don't want to the the first to officially betray the Palestinians.

=
MbZ has nothing to show for the huge gift he is handing to Netanyahoo and Trump ...

Was he blackmailed? Will mysterious fires in UAE now stop? (Isn't strange how "mysterious" destruction in the Middle-East strike Israel's enemies?)

August 2020: HUGE BLAZE breaks out at food market in Ajman, UAE

The cause of the fire is still not known, but the market has reportedly been closed for months due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

May 2020: UAE: Dozen wounded in Sharjah residential tower fire
Authorities gave no cause for the blaze ...

The UAE, including the skyscraper-studded emirate of Dubai, has suffered a spate of fires in its high-rises in recent years.

Building and safety experts blame a material used for the buildings' sidings ... experts say those that have caught fire in the UAE and elsewhere were not designed to meet stricter safety standards ...


They meet safety standards ... but not the "stricter" ones. LOL.

These skyscrapper fires are worse because of the building materials ... but no one can say how they actually get started.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13 2020 16:55 utc | 5

Posted by: Oui | Aug 13 2020 16:47 utc | 4

That article presumes that Hizbullah controlled the port, which they didn't, as should be obvious. So bang goes another Israeli conspiracy theory.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 16:55 utc | 6

While the MbS bone-saw dog and pony show is receding from the headlines, the MbZ saga is heating up.
I’ve noticed he’s trying to normalize relations with Iran as well. Go MbZ, go.
You were always the one the MbS looked up to, anyway. Go MbZ, go.
Set a trail, little people be damned. Go MbZ, go.
Orange one and Pompous got your balls in a knot. Go MbZ go.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Aug 13 2020 17:04 utc | 7

The "United Arab Emirates" in the Persian Gulf have been party to and victims of British intrigues since the mitt 17-hundreds (Like Saudi Arabia , in other ways). I have myself encountered the local ani-juewishm amongst the comon folks there some 40 years ago, while they well knew the royals were i cahoots with the City of London Jews.
The only real support for the arabs of Palesine on the Arab penninsula came from the ruker of Trucuíal Oman end the hinterland -- the brave Quaboose. His memiry has now been Quashed,

Posted by: JoveBove/區司 | Aug 13 2020 17:05 utc | 8

I have a feeling, supported by the above-mentioned discrepancies and underlying conflicts of interest the deal fails to address, this will be just another one of Trump's hollow 'deals' aimed more for the Media and PR: low on details and substance.

Much like the supposed North Korea 'deal' that quickly fizzled back to the stars quo and achieved absolutely nothing beyond the headlines and photo ops.

Classic Trump bs he tries to sell as 'diplomacy'.

Posted by: Et Tu | Aug 13 2020 17:12 utc | 9

Betrayal is an arab trade mark.

Posted by: fayez chergui | Aug 13 2020 17:20 utc | 10

I think this whole issue is, as Oui says, a 'nothing burger', not a dramatic change.

Gulf princes are known for their capricious decisions, there being nobody to stop them. I've had lots of friends who've got jobs in the Gulf, thanks to a princely decision, but then lost them when the prince concerned got bored with their project. Something similar will happen here.

Jordan, of course, already has a peace treaty with Israel, and there's an Israeli ambassador in Amman. But the relations are as cold as cold can be. The ambassador sits isolated in his embassy. If the Emirati-Israeli relations get as far as having an ambassador in place, not sure, things will be the same.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 17:21 utc | 11

The situation in the Levant is unraveling. A huge defeat both for the Zionist and the Muslim ideologies.

Israel is nearing its end. It's initial impulse of forming "Eretz Israel" has died with the defeats to Hezbollah in 2006 and to Bashar al-Assad's secular army in 2011-2014. Its prospects for territorial expansion and ultimate conquest of the entire Eastern Mediterranean are gone. It has skyrocketing inequality, a demographic time bomb and a huge Arab (Palestinian) population (25% of its total population).

The tendency is for Israel to die out as a Jewish State and consolidate more and more as a normal, secular (Westphalian) Nation-State.

This is also the death of the dream of the "Arab (Muslim) League". Saudi Arabia is quickly degenerating, Syria has emerged victorious under a secular ruler, Palestine has disappeared, Iraq and Libya were destroyed and the Muslim Brotherhood crushed. There will be no future for the Muslim ideology/religion.

Ultimately, this is a heavy blow to Postmodernism. Geopolitical and economic factors are imposing themselves over cultural, racial and religious factors. Those exotic postmodern beasts thought they had surpassed Marx in the 1970s, but they were totally wrong.

Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2020 17:25 utc | 12

Posted by: Et Tu | Aug 13 2020 17:12 utc | 9

"this will be just another one of Trump's hollow 'deals' aimed more for the Media and PR"

Yes, it looks like more bullshit to me. I was toying with the idea that it was a way to get Netanyahu off for not annexing more land now, he got this "deal" instead.

And it's a great distraction all around too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 13 2020 17:25 utc | 13

@Oui | Aug 13 2020 16:47 utc | 4

Interesting link, to say the least.

Each of those explosions was equivalent to that of several tons of explosives (it is difficult to determine the exact amounts at this stage of the investigation), and the amount of time between them was the same – 11 seconds. As seen in the seismogram, we can clearly identify five identical explosions 11 seconds apart, while the sixth blast, 11 seconds later, was several times bigger. And then, after 43 more seconds, came the massive explosion that was picked up by all the seismographs across the Middle East and devastated large parts of Beirut.

So 5 blasts of identical magnitude blows like clockwork at 11 second intervals, followed by a larger one another 11 seconds later. Then the big boom. If it wasn't for coincidences one would believe there was something systematic about it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 17:31 utc | 14

SOMEWHATLY BETTER PROOFREAD:
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13 2020 16:55 utc | 5

The "United Arab Emirates" in the Persian Gulf have been party to and victims of British intrigues since the early and midle 17-hundreds (Like Saudi Arabia , in other ways). I have myself encountered the local anti-juewishism amongst the common folks there some 40 years ago, while they well knew the royals were i cahoots with the City of London Jews. (Correction: THe locals were not agains Jews, but against Zionism! -- there were lots of Perisian Jews bwing welcommede to carrying on with their businesses there.)
The only real support for the Arabs of Palesine on the Arab penninsula came from the ruler of Trucuíal Oman and Muscat and the hinterland -- the brave Sultan Quaboose. His memory has now been Quashed

Posted by: Oū Sī / 區司/ Usman | Aug 13 2020 17:34 utc | 15

Looks like a Trump reelection ploy to me that will soon be forgotten by all except Palestinians.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13 2020 17:38 utc | 16

@vk 12

Good analysis, however I'm a bit more pessimistic.

I see a possible bifurcation of the Middle East based upon Islam's schism and the plutocrats fear of Iran. The murder of Soliemani was useful to them as he seemed to be a unifier between sects, which would run contrary to Israel's aims. In the short term Israel can provide military advice in suppressing local Shia populations, and they could in return get military bases closer to Iran. If the new Arrow missile is any good, it might provide useful to Israel in further aggression. IMO Israel needs as enemy to survive, much like the US.

Posted by: Michael | Aug 13 2020 17:47 utc | 17

Looks like a Trump reelection ploy to me that will soon be forgotten by all except Palestinians.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13 2020 17:38 utc | 16

Even by Palestinians, as it doesn't mean much.

Are all the Palestinians employed in the Gulf going to be fired (there are a lot)? Doing what Israel would want, implies tearing up the Gulf economy. I've no doubt that the princely caprice didn't extend to thinking this point out.

MbZ couldn't say no, because the Emirates need US military defence. That's all.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 18:00 utc | 18

Bemildred @Aug13 17:25 #13

... this will be just another one of Trump's hollow 'deals'

Laguerre @Aug13 17:21 #11

I think this whole issue is, as Oui says, a 'nothing burger'

The substance here is not difficult to discern. KSA has probably already agreed to normalize relations with Israel as long as the ME political environment is not too unfavorable for such an action.

After an Israeli annexation, Saudi Arabia will have difficulty recognizing/normalizing relations with Israel. Possibly for years. And KSA doesn't want to be the first to formally recognize Israel.

So UAE recognition/normalizing ... then Saudi recognition/normalizing ... then annexation.

The only questions are:

  • How much convincing did it require to get MbZ to go first? Were blacksmiths blackops sent to UAE to create mysterious fires? Was the Beirut bombing a further warning of the danger of not going along?
  • When will the Saudi recognize/normalize? I would guess before the U.S. Presidential election in November.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13 2020 18:11 utc | 19

@ vk | Aug 13 2020 17:25 utc | 12

Ultimately, this is a heavy blow to Postmodernism. Geopolitical and economic factors are imposing themselves over cultural, racial and religious factors. Those exotic postmodern beasts thought they had surpassed Marx in the 1970s, but they were totally wrong.

Erm, I fail to see how cultural, racial and religious factors are postmodern paradigms.

Your faux-marxist hobbyhorse is doing a victory lap consisting mostly of silly walks.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 13 2020 18:15 utc | 20

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13 2020 18:11 utc | 19

Saudi Arabia can't ever "normalise" relations with Israel, as the population would object, and the hold on power of the Saudi family is not so secure these days. They won't do anything that puts their power in danger.

The situation in the Gulf is different.They don't have much of a national population, and the princes are free to satisfy their momentary political needs. Though even they will soon discover it's not quite like that.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 18:31 utc | 21

@ Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 17:31 utc | 14

Several tons of explosives going off six times before the big one,nequally spaced over the span of a minute is hard to believe. Any of these explosions would have blown the top off of the warehouse and leave a sizable and easily discernable mushroom cloud. This is not what the abundance of video evidence corroborates.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 13 2020 18:31 utc | 22

@ Posted by: Lurk | Aug 13 2020 18:15 utc | 20

It's not the death of postmodernism yet, although it could be the beginning of the end.

It is a heavy blow to postmodernism in two senses:

1) its paradigm now has a lot of blood and destruction on its hands. In the post-war period, the then ascending postmodern intellectuals blamed the Marxists and, for that matter, the whole Enlightenment, for WWI and WWII. Those two wars were the wars of Reason - a triumph of the machine over men. It then begun a systematic process of irrationalization in the West, which culminated with the infamous postmodern relativism (and nihilism). The argument for it was that it would end all wars - the remaining conflicts being merely residual from the previous era. Well, not only the conflicts didn't end, they are increasing - only now under crazier and more fanatical narratives. Those wars are on the postmodern bill now, as will be the WWIII (if there is one);

2) it marks the collapse of the "global tribes" social model, which they predicted. Nations and peoples are lining up according to geopolitical and class divisions, not with "identity" (racial, religious, ethnic) ones.

Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2020 18:36 utc | 23

@Lurk | Aug 13 2020 18:31 utc | 22

Several tons of explosives going off six times before the big one,nequally spaced over the span of a minute is hard to believe.

So you believe the Israelis faked the seismic data? Why would they do that?

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 18:45 utc | 24

The UAE is certainly the place where Macron is going to give soon a speech about corruption and good governance.
That's where Juan Carlos decided he would be safer in case his trial for corruption ends up badly
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53710555
And what about the Emiratis seeking asylum in England to flee prosecution?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51756984

Posted by: Mina | Aug 13 2020 18:45 utc | 25

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13 2020 18:11 utc | 19

Well I would agree this all has to do with upcoming events, and it also has to do with the political needs of the actors, but I would not call it "substance". I think characterizing it as PR or window dressing it quite right. In fact it seems to me that is how you described it too.

I think how it goes depends on how Trump's prospects look, does he try to cram in as many "accomplishments" as he can before he get thrown out of office, or does he play the canny political game and try to win a 2nd term?

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 13 2020 18:50 utc | 26

A point I hadn't thought about, but which is central to this issue, is the Palestinian population in the Gulf. There are a lot of them. The chiefs may be westerners, but at the next level down, there are a lot of Palestinian executives, who speak the language, and who work for less than the western principals.

Fire them, or make them feel unwelcome, and you've destroyed the Emirati economy. Some years ago Yemenis were ejected, but they were workers, and could be replaced. Palestinians are more vital. A compromise is likely.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2020 18:55 utc | 27

Oui @4

Original article on Israel Defense website ...

Amazing findings change the story of the Beirut blast

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/44662

Those five blips before the main burst are i) regularly spaced at ~5 seconds and ii) very similar in amplitude and envelope. There are two more similar blips after the main burst, also at ~5 seconds spacing, though somewhat blurry because of increased noise level after the high energy event.

Their regularity, and constant appearance, and especially presence after the event suggest they have nothing to do with explosions. I suspect they also continue through the main event as the before and after time spacing is the same. This could be confirmed by running the original data through a fast Fourier transform. The consistent repetition rate of ~5 seconds would give a peak in the frequency response at ~1/5 Hz.

My guess is Israel has picked some data to fit a pre-determined outcome favorable to them.

Posted by: Ken Garoo | Aug 13 2020 19:03 utc | 28

So you believe the Israelis faked the seismic data? Why would they do that?

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 18:45 utc | 24

Because the story that Oui is pimping on MOA is this:


This analysis raises major questions regarding the accepted assumption that was published in the media that the explosion originated from a fire on the ground at the port that ignited fireworks and then the sacks of ammonium nitrate. It also is in line with foreign media reports (which were denied unconvincingly by official sources in Lebanon) that under the "regular" warehouses at the port where the fireworks and ammonium nitrate were stored was an underground city operated by Hezbollah, the real "owner" of the main Lebanese port, apparently with warehouses and tunnels, whose remnants were shown clearly in reports.

The idea that anyone built an "underground city" under the port of Beirut, in full view the worlds spooks, millions of eyeballs, and an entirely useless location (for an underground city) is the laughable lie.

Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 13 2020 19:05 utc | 29

VK is totally right to point out the rotting corpse of 1990s postmodernism. Where are those fools now? Do they have no shame? They thought that the world is just what we think, or say, it is; that it is just a reflection of discourse. Think of the tens of millions of dollars of resources that went into supporting all their conferences, grants and crappy publications.

Posted by: Prof K | Aug 13 2020 19:09 utc | 30

vk: The situation in the Levant is unraveling. A huge defeat both for the Zionist and the Muslim ideologies.

Muslim "ideologies", sure. All ideologies, including your dearly held "Marxism" are imo destined for the trash bin of history. Note that regardless of how strongly I hold this thought, I do not repeat your error of claiming the arrival an event that has not yet happened. Work on your tenses.

I wouldn't count out the religions yet. They address a need not 'satisfied' by religion in our species. Whether the need is real or not is irrelevant, VK.

Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 13 2020 19:10 utc | 31

@conspiracy-theorist | Aug 13 2020 19:05 utc | 29

That's unrelated and irrelevant gibberish. The question is whether the seismic data is real or if the Israelis faked it (and if so, why?).

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 19:12 utc | 32

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 19:12 utc | 32

Related and any giberish was quoted matter written by Israelis at www.israeldefense.co.il. The source is the story that Oui posts with "exclusive" seismic data. Don't play dumb.

Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 13 2020 19:15 utc | 33

Just dug up this tweet from a week or so ago.

https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/1289938294130655234

Will Iran be selling its vaccine to Israel via UAE? )))
But Seriously, I look forward to reading Iran's response to the agreement. Iran seeks/ needs peaceful and productive arrangements regionally and especially with neighbours. Wonder if there is an Iran angle to this development. Backdoor channels with Israel?

Too optimistic? )))

Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 13 2020 19:16 utc | 34

This a just campaign Stunt by Trump and Nutyyaboo will not make any strategic difference in current balance of power in Western Asia, except as b said MBZ got nothing although he will have to spend a lot of his political capital.

Posted by: Kooshy | Aug 13 2020 19:20 utc | 35

Regarding seismic data:

There is a story going around that all the seismic data for Beirut, at some seismic data aggregator, from around the time of the blast, is missing, and we also have the Israelis with their special seismic data that nobody else has. Could those stories be related somehow? Hmmm. Pending further evidence, I don't believe the Israelis.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 13 2020 19:26 utc | 36

Two recent Assad speeches:

Syrian President says Turkey and US suffering from political illusions

Syrian President explains reasons for Israeli airstrikes and US economic siege

Those are not a Muslim's speeches; they are a Statesman's speeches. Religion is just a hollow shell by now.

Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2020 19:33 utc | 37

"Fear us. We have magical weapons and all your underground cities belong to us!"

Laughable.

I repeat an earlier question in some other thread:

- We know actual military leadership is educated by institutions dedicated to this purpose.

- We know political leadership consumes intelligence from dedicated agencies regarding weapons and capabilities of enemies.

- We know the opinion of "readership" of blogs and news is not consulted by decision makers.

So my question is, who is the intended audiance of all this geopolitical word spinning?

Is this merely to create the impression of a "collective discourse" guiding decisions in that realm?

Is the purpose to demoralize target nations civil and defense societies? For example here, the magical Israelis blast away fictional Hezbollah "underground city" and even push stories that "we did it!".

Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 13 2020 19:34 utc | 38

With the exception of hezbollah, Arabs are a defeated people. With all their resources and size(population) they're still beholden to Washington and Tel Aviv. They have no dignity.

This new "deal" is a nothing burger. Oman, UAE, Egypt, Qatar, Saudan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Libya, Morroco, Algeria, Bahrain, Kuwait etc. all have secret relations with Israel. UAE's only formalizing it - nothing unusual. It's prerequisite to having access to the Whitehouse.

Trum can claim some FP "vicotory" and go have a shower afterwards.

Posted by: Zico | Aug 13 2020 19:42 utc | 39

A few notes. Israel is still keeping every thing they have taken including all of Jerusalem and the Dome on the Rock. Also the Golan Heights and Sheeba Farms. Netanyahu has already announced more annexation is coming. MBS can't normalize relations with Israel until the current King is dead which can be arranged at any time. A big part of the UAE deal is Turkey. Turkey's recent stupidity just handed Israel it's greatest victory in the last quarter century.

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Aug 13 2020 19:46 utc | 40

@vk | Aug 13 2020 19:33 utc | 37
Thanks for the posts.
Assad - candid and committed as ever; qualities that should not be so refreshing.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 13 2020 19:46 utc | 41

Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2020 17:25 utc | 12

I hop you are right. Well said.

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Aug 13 2020 19:50 utc | 42

In relation to the "magic seismic data" and the suggestive implication of underground hizbullah weapons storage bunkers, there was also the story reported in the mass media about a "43 meter deep hole" left in the wake of the blast. A mere glance at images of the blast site makes this claim highly dubious, but none of the "journalists" bothered. They all slavishly copied the same wacky story from AFP.

I ripped into that story in another thread, I will copy it below:

----------

@ Mina | Aug 9 2020 12:53 utc | 450

The huge ammonium nitrate explosion in Beirut's port that devastated much of the city left a crater 43 metres (141 feet) deep, a security official.

The full quote is:

The huge chemical explosion that hit Beirut’s port, devastating large parts of the Lebanese capital and claiming over 150 lives, left a 43-meter (141 foot) deep crater, a security official said Sunday.

“The explosion in the port left a crater 43 meters deep”, the official told AFP, citing reports by French experts conducting an assessment of the disaster area.

(source)

Which is weird if you think about it. Why would Agence France Presse cite an (unnamed) security official, citing (unreferenced) reports by French experts. It's just... convoluted.

I have a problem with these claims. How did the "French experts" perform their depth sounding and analysis. Looking at aireal photography, it doesn't look like a deep crater lake at all:

crater lake image 1
crater lake image 2

Where is all the debris from the crater? 43 meters times 1/3rd of the surface of the crater isa lot of material, where did it all go to?

The cargo pier in Beirut Port has a depth of 7 to 9 meters:
https://www.searates.com/port/beirut_lb.htm

MSM are all parroting these claims that make no sense upon closer inspection.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 9 2020 13:51 utc | 451

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 13 2020 19:53 utc | 43

Will Kuwait and Saudi Arabia follow the UAE?
What will be Iran's reaction? Iran and the UAE have strong commercial ties.

With the wording used, this 'deal' comes at the right time to artificially boost Netanyahu and Trump for their election and to boost the UAE in their fight against Qatar and Turkey.
It may be short lived...

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 13 2020 19:58 utc | 44

Thank goodness you are wrong, vk! What a dull world you posit for us, class divisions and that's it? We have too much of that already in the US, and it's deadly dull! Hollow shell?? Where's your aesthetic sensibility at least? Aargh, what a world it would be without beauty! And where's beauty without spirit? Where's spirit without faith?

Glory to God for speckled things! (have to look that poem up.)

;)

Posted by: juliania | Aug 13 2020 20:07 utc | 45

Pied Beauty
BY GERARD MANLEY HOPKINS

Glory be to God for dappled things –
For skies of couple-colour as a brinded cow;
For rose-moles all in stipple upon trout that swim;
Fresh-firecoal chestnut-falls; finches’ wings;
Landscape plotted and pieced – fold, fallow, and plough;
And áll trádes, their gear and tackle and trim.

All things counter, original, spare, strange;
Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?)
With swift, slow; sweet, sour; adazzle, dim;
He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change:
Praise him.

Source: Gerard Manley Hopkins: Poems and Prose (Penguin Classics, 1985)

Posted by: juliania | Aug 13 2020 20:12 utc | 46

@BraveNewWorld | 40
Re. Turkey I fully agree.
Yet further isolated and ties to Qatar will become strained I reckon.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 13 2020 20:18 utc | 47

thanks b... i am not sure what to make of this uae deal with israel... i await more info...

meanwhile 3 threads and 3 oui posts on the same topic... good job oui... you finally found a few folks to bite... i call bullshit... just another dumbfuck israel pys op...

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2020 20:36 utc | 48

Concerning the odd seismic data, the Israelis are trying to claim that there was an entire "city" of underground tunnels and bunkers under Beirut harbor built by Hezbollah, and that this is where the original explosions came from.

I have not built too many bunkers in my time, but I would guess that building a network of them under a busy working harbor without anyone noticing would be a remarkable engineering feat. I am not sure what kind of advantage building them there would provide that is worth that much effort, so if anyone has ideas I would enjoy hearing them.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 13 2020 20:49 utc | 49

wg - ask our local hasbara specialist oui... he might have a theory, lol..

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2020 20:54 utc | 50

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Aug 13 2020 19:46 utc | 40

Turkey is not stupid is accomplice of the dirty zionists..Like all sunni regimes left on the earth.

Posted by: LuBa | Aug 13 2020 21:08 utc | 51

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13 2020 16:55 utc | 5

Please do not read anything into the frequent'mysterious' fires that break out in the UAE.

Having lived in the UAE on and off for the past decade It is a normal feature of the landscape, like cranes falling over and squashing people.

The Emiratis love using non fire retardent materials in their skyscrapers whenever they can get away with it despite the crazy temperatures and their national sport is dodging falling cranes. It is a running joke with the expats there, one factor in choosing an apartment is making a judgement on it's chances of going up in flames based on a look at the building cladding ...


Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 21:15 utc | 52

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 13 2020 20:49 utc | 49


the Israelis are trying to claim that there was an entire "city" of underground tunnels and bunkers under Beirut harbor built by Hezbollah, and that this is where the original explosions came from.

Could they be deliberately conflating the sewage system with an 'underground city' ?

(Of course this is standard israeli infowar)

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 21:19 utc | 53


Posted by: LuBa | Aug 13 2020 21:08 utc | 51


Turkey is not stupid is accomplice of the dirty zionists..Like all sunni regimes left on the earth

They're certainly doing a great job of serving israel's needs in Syria.

I still remember they did nothing much about the Mavi Marmara...

The there's this:

A reconciliation agreement was announced on 27 June 2016 to end the six-year rift in the relation between both countries.

The Turkish Parliament will pass a law canceling all appeals against Israeli soldiers involved in the killing of nine Turkish citizens during the Gaza flotilla raid and will also block any future claims.
Commitment to stop terrorist or military activity against Israel on Turkish soil including funding and aid to such activities from Turkey. Palestinian movement Hamas will be allowed to operate on Turkish soil but only as a political movement.
Turkey will accept to send all aid to the Gaza Strip through Israel and then from Israel to Gaza on land.
Israel will allow Turkey to advance humanitarian projects in the Gaza Strip, such as building an hospital, power station and a desalination station, all subjected to Israeli security considerations
Israel will give $20 million as compensation for the families of those who died and were injured in the raid. The money will be transferred through a humanitarian fund in Turkey. An Israel official said the money will be transferred only after the Turkish parliament will pass the law renouncing all appealings against Israeli soldiers involved in the incident.
The two countries will start a process of renormalizing their relations, reappointing ambassadors to Ankara and Tel Aviv and ending all sanctions between the two.

The Turks are as pragmatic as the Gulf Arabs it seems ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 21:28 utc | 54

I receive daily situation reports on the vicious and brutal occupation of Palestine, these reports are titled "In Occupied Palestine". These free email reports are sent worldwide and are truely shocking:
"PHRC | Palestine Human Rights Campaign Aotearoa/New Zealand
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If any of our subscribers should like to reproduce on their ownwebsites, in full and unedited, these In Occupied Palestine daily newsletters they would be very welcome to do so!
If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please let us know and if you have friends or family who would like to receive them ask them to contact us at sumud1@outlook.com"

How any normal and reasonable person could contemplate any accomodation with Zionism after reading these daily and routine grotesque breaches of civilised norms and repeated breaches of the Geneva Conventions is beyond me. I recommend a free subscription, see above.

As if the cushioned pashas in both the UAE, Tel Aviv and other captive nations are not aware of these outrages. Please note, High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions, having signed the additional protocol, have agreed to point out serious breaches of the conventions to Geneva. What's their excuse for failing to comply with their humanitarian obligations? Although the corrupt and Zionised captive media isn't asking the right questions to the right people the ordinary people would like to know why the hypocrisy?

We can now add the UAE to the list of Captive Nations.

Posted by: Paul | Aug 13 2020 21:35 utc | 55

@Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 13 2020 20:49 utc | 49

Obviosuly that "theory" has neither feet nor head, but you recall that they consider us "idiots and simpletons", as has been showed here throgh the week, and thus, able to swallow such stories...

Here them "smarties", affirming they have foiled a NK cyber hack...

https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/1293968774496911366

NK hackers are said to be the best in the world...to see if they give a hand on the Lebanese issue...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 21:45 utc | 56

Posted by: Zico | Aug 13 2020 19:42 utc | 39


With the exception of hezbollah, Arabs are a defeated people.

You might add the Houthi / Ansar Allah to that.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 21:46 utc | 57

@Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 13 2020 20:49 utc | 49

Anyway they have to come with something, trying to twist incoming overwhelming evidence by Lebanese street CCTV cameras near the harbor and other private videos on that jets were not only heard but also pointed out at the sky by pedestrians in the minutes previous to the great blast...

Probably also why this sudden hurry by UAE in legitimazing the seizing of Palestine homes and lands....

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 22:06 utc | 58

Et Tu | Aug 13 2020 17:12 utc | 9:

I’m with you.

So the U.S. announcement has been immediately, if gently, repudiated by both of the countries that ostensibly struck the deal (which would essentially be symbolic, even if factual).

To me this news looks like a wisp of the miasma between Trump’s ears, enabled by his scarcely more competent White House courtiers. I expect it to fade rapidly and linger asymptotically, like a distant supernova.

If I were a betting person, I might wager that the text of the “joint statement” never had final approval from Israel or UAE.

Posted by: David G | Aug 13 2020 22:08 utc | 59

William Gruff #49

I am not sure what kind of advantage building them there would provide that is worth that much effort, so if anyone has ideas I would enjoy hearing them.

To build air conditioning systems for the sole selfish use of Hezbollah people and cool their passions. See Yakhchal or wind catchers.

To catch fish without being seen by the Sunni Port authorities or crucified by the savages of Phalange.

To launch their devilish cunning mini submarines and attack Haifa.

But to the seismograph published by the Illegal occupier of Palestine: I counted 15 seconds between each point.

Given the source of the report, I am seriously sceptical that it represents anything other than a recording of someone hitting a table with a hammer next to a laboratory test model seismograph. Or perhaps the bass drum playing here.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 13 2020 22:16 utc | 60

Hmm.... I'd say that deal is just one bribe away from being repealed. I'd be willing to bet this will happen right before the election and both ISISrael and the UAE will double score(Trump had to offer up big somehow) which will end up benefiting the leadership of both parties and of course the lobbyists.

What a shit show.

So who's friends and family are we going to make rich and powerful next ? Vote harder this time damn it !

Peace

Posted by: dave | Aug 13 2020 22:37 utc | 61

Murdoch's sky news kicked off the crap about tunnels and stuff. A loyal Zionist reporter is with, I think the Russian team that checked the drainage tunnels. The sky news video shows the rescue team digging down through the grain to find the openings that had grating covers. There is what look to be two admin buildings, one attached to the northern end of the silo and one under the conveyor that leads from the northern end of the silos to the end of the pier. It was around this area the rescue team was looking.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 13 2020 22:56 utc | 62

Adding to 62
I had thought from what was being said that maybe there was a basement under one of what I take to be admin buildings.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 13 2020 22:58 utc | 63

The first Secretary General of Hizbullah seems to think the entire parliament should be hanged, including Hassan Nasrallah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgH1c7p14wY

Well, that was unexpected!

... or maybe not, considering his long held views:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhi_al-Tufayli

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:06 utc | 64

One can suppose the incident of the six explosions preceding the explosion of the ammonium nitrate as reported by the Israel Defense article that Oui @ 4 linked to could be true; the apportioning of blame on Hezbollah may well be one aspect of the story that is a lie. The last four paragraphs of that Israel Defense article, starting with:

"So what really happened at the port? Arik Goren, who on behalf of Israel's Environment Ministry investigated an explosion in 2017 at a fireworks warehouse at a Moshav in central Israel in which two workers were killed, says that fireworks are sensitive to heat phenomena. According to him, it is possible that underground explosions generated heat that ignited the fireworks next to the sacks of ammonium, and only then, as a result of a fire, occurred the massive explosion that caused an earthquake of 3.3 on the Richter scale ..."

... must be treated with all suspicion.

If enough people spread the story that Hezbollah controlled or controls the area where the explosions occurred - and those people may well have an interest in blaming Hezbollah for anything and everything bad that happens in Lebanon - then that is laying the groundwork for a future Israeli invasion of southern Lebanon with US and NATO support.

Far more likely then to suppose that enemies of Hezbollah may well have planted incendiary devices in places in and around those warehouses where the fireworks were stored and which generated the explosions detected by geophysicists connected to Tamar Engineering Group.

From that Israel Defense article itself:

"... The Tamar group, which was established by Boaz Hayoun, a former officer in the IDF's Engineering Corps, has for decades dealt with the field of demolition and controlled explosions in Israel, and also helps airports around the world identify explosive materials. Among other things, the group carries out special projects using explosives, including explosions in buildings and complex experiments. The group includes the Israeli Explosives Safety Center and the National Fireworks Laboratory that is responsible on behalf of the Standards Institution of Israel for the licensing of all fireworks, which mainly come from China ..."

Well, couldn't the IDF themselves have placed the devices secretly with local help connected to Lebanese institutions opposed to Hezbollah?

Posted by: Jen | Aug 13 2020 23:11 utc | 65

Posted by: Jen | Aug 13 2020 23:11 utc | 65



One can suppose the incident of the six explosions preceding the explosion of the ammonium nitrate as reported by the Israel Defense article that Oui @ 4 linked to could be true;

I think this is false on it's face and should be disregarded out of hand.

None, not a single one, of the hundreds of documentary video evidence provides even a hint of a series of the kind of explosion that would register. There are also no observer reports of a pattern of phenomenon that might correlate with such a proposal.

On the other hand there is substantial video evidence of a long-duration combustion in the "fireworks" store, including visuals of the actual fireworks exploding over time (with no indication of a series of six explosions matching the israeli report).

Again: this is purely an artifact of israeli information war.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:22 utc | 66

@ Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:06 utc | 64.. sounds like he is on someone's payroll.... the guy is a whack job... thanks for pointing him out...

from wikipedia - "In February 2013, al-Tufayli berated Hezbollah for fighting on behalf of the Syrian government in the Syrian civil war."
al-Tufayli added: "those Hezbollah fighters who are killing children and terrorizing people and destroying houses in Syria will go to hell".[12] He also berated the Lebanese Army for not stopping Lebanese citizens crossing the border to fight in Syria.[13]

He also claim that ISIS is created by Iranian and Syrian Government with help of Russia."

dontcha just love wikipedia, lol... one more tool for the empire...

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2020 23:27 utc | 67

@Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:06 utc | 64

An obvious infiltrado in Hezbollah detected in time and ejected...he olds all the points of the US/EU Sorosian, or not, crusade...a "revolutionary" indeed...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 23:32 utc | 68


Posted by: james | Aug 13 2020 23:27 utc | 67
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 23:32 utc | 68


Yes, either a nut or compromised, which possibly explains why he only lasted 1 year as G.S.

Which raises the question of why he is still alive after all these years ...

A quick detour into conspiracy land:

Could it be that Hezbollah under Al-Tufaily could very well have become a Saudi extremist movement and was on track towards that destination when Iran and others booted him out? Could it very well be that for the succeeding two G.S Hezbollah could have been more like ISIS today than a grassroots Shia movement supported by Iran ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:48 utc | 69

@ Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:48 utc | 69.. that is realistic conjecture... hard to know... aren't there enough ksa extremist movements with full support from usa-uk already? lol... that is why i joke about this dolt being on the same payroll...

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2020 23:54 utc | 70

@Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 13 2020 23:48 utc | 69

The so called "strategy of tension" which materialize into terrorism and terrorist groups, in any location, at any time, has always been a tool, and monopoly, of the Empires, I mean state actors of significant size....not so few times taking advantage of plenty of motives to take up arms and go for revolution on the part of population...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 23:55 utc | 71

Nuking countries is another monopoly of major state actors, btw...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 23:57 utc | 72

@Posted by: james | Aug 13 2020 23:54 utc | 70

Not so rare when you see that the same actors fund the "green" new left and the"populist" neonazi far-right...

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 14 2020 0:00 utc | 73


Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 13 2020 23:55 utc | 71

Indeed. Operation Gladio springs to mind.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 14 2020 0:00 utc | 74

A NON-accomplishment welcomed more than the 2nd coming of Jesus the Christ by the party of Mike Pence Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity already glowing over it.

Was the UAE engaged in military conflict w/Israel, building nuclear weapons, enduring worldwide starvation level sanctions, testing ballistic missiles? None of the above. It's easy to make treaties with friends. The Mike Pence's and Pompeo's are going to brag that this is better than the Iran nuclear deal but that was actually hard because there was a conflict. These people are morally bankrupt and have no scruples, or possibly just not that smart.

BTW I do agree that if anything it's bad because it will help create a schism by fostering the completely unnecessary anti-Iran alliance. Pompeo is now calling himself a 'Blessed Peacemaker'. God, please at least strike me dead.

Posted by: Christian J. Chuba | Aug 14 2020 0:07 utc | 75

I don't see the problem here. The Palestinian cause was lost 25 or so years ago when Clinton refused to support the Oslo process. After that the Palestinian cause devolved into whatever their masters (the Israelis) declared--they had virtually no support in the Sunni Arab world and today have absolutely none. Palestinians have to either live under the Israeli boot (whose population grows more fascistic every day) or try to emigrate.

Posted by: Banger | Aug 14 2020 0:45 utc | 76

Jen @Aug13 23:11 #65

... then that is laying the groundwork for a future Israeli invasion of southern Lebanon with US and NATO support.

Why would Israel take on Hezbollah directly and subject their population to a rain of missiles when Israel's western allies are more than happy to rid Lebanon of Hezbollah?

I suspect that is the plan: turn the people against Hezbollah, eject Hezbollah from government, and then drive Hezbollah out of the country (meaning civil war).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14 2020 0:47 utc | 77

Banger @Aug14 0:45 #76

I don't see the problem here.

I think maybe the problem that you don't see is called "Cold War II" which is moving inexorably to nuclear brinkmanship.

Thanks for stopping by Banger. Hope you are well.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14 2020 0:53 utc | 78

@ Christian J. Chuba | Aug 14 2020 0:07 utc | 75 who wrote
"
Pompeo is now calling himself a 'Blessed Peacemaker'.
"

The Blessed Peacemaker front for the God of Mammon cult has met his match with the totally secular civilization of China.

If so many people didn't get hurt or die along the way this would be fun to watch.

It is time for Western society to grow out of fealty to the cult owning global private finance.

The first step is to get enough of the population to understand that private finance is and has for centuries been the impediment to social maturity. In this case I am defining maturity as the ability to have social engagement that is not defined by might-makes-right/rules based order.....enforced through controlling finance.

The UAE, IMO is making a financial/security alliance that we will see more of as the world polarizes.....the aggressive side circling the wagons and doing everything but communicating the core structural social contract differences that differ between the private and public centered social structures.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 14 2020 0:55 utc | 79

The United Arab Emirates has been up to its eyeballs in American wars, regime change operations, and sponsorship of moderate "pro-democracy" terrorists throughout the Middle East--including American wars against Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and (along with Saudi Arabia) the humanitarian nightmare called the War on Yemen.

The United Arab Emirates has been so thoroughly implicated in these American wars that it has been given the nickname "Little Sparta" by James Madman Mattis himself.

So it is only appropriate that the United American Emirates join its America master by coming out of the closet and pledging fealty to Apartheid Israel.

The Axis of Evil just got a new official member!

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 14 2020 0:55 utc | 80

Jen 65

I think if the Israeli's were behind it, there would have been 'evidence' incriminating Hezbollah plus a narrative swamping western media that 'incriminates' Hezbollah.

Instead, the early reporting in western media was similar to what Nasrallah was saying.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 14 2020 1:03 utc | 81

Jen #65

Well, couldn't the IDF themselves have placed the devices secretly with local help connected to Lebanese institutions opposed to Hezbollah?

Exactly that and thank you. I would say MOST probable. And least probable is Hezbolah.

If you can't get the Hezbolah out of Lebanon then start a civil war and take the Lebanon out of Hezbolah.

On the thread topic of UAE and the entire hoax of a 'deal'. BUNKUM and a red herring to get Nuttyahoo off the hook and Trump a hero for yet another 'really big clever peace deal'.

Now where is the UAE exactly in the Middle East? A long way from Israel's borders but what would the USA public know or comprehend in its insignificance.

IMO the entire UAE fantasy is likely to evaporate as if a mirage.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 14 2020 1:34 utc | 82

Peter AU1 @Aug14 1:03 @81

And yet, the narrative of government negligence caused the government to resign. Which may have been the goal.

And the whispers of Hezbollah's ultimate responsibility has been constant, even if initially secondary to "government negligence". And that coincides with Western governments refusing to provide any substantial aid to any Lebanese government that Hezbollah has any influence over.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14 2020 1:39 utc | 83

Peter AU 1 @ 81, Jackrabbit @ 77:

The early narrative that the ammonium nitrate explosion was an accident resulting from government incompetence, oversight and corruption can be changed if enough "evidence" were to be "found" that "incriminates" Hezbollah.

Enough that the US and its allies might go through their standard ritual of declaring a no-fly zone over Lebanon in order to get rid of Hezbollah and its allies. That would give the green light later on to the IDF to invade southern Lebanon and grab the Litani River basin territory with the Bekaa agricultural district area while everyone else is caught up in the fighting.

A case of "Look over here! Don't look over there!"

Posted by: Jen | Aug 14 2020 1:56 utc | 84

* About Beirut's silos in their harbour: Google Earth gives a height of 1 to 2 m asl for that area, so no safe depth for tunnels underground next to the sea.
Those silo's themselves do made a good hiding place for anything though.


* Google Earth also shows many harbors on Taiwan's West coast plus airports.

* Regarding UAE royal Arabs "betraying" Palestinian Arabs: Oligarchs from any background have distanced themselves from their poor, even inside one nation.
Besides, the Palestinian Arabs became toys of geo-politicians and thus spoiled brats. They got sympathy mostly among Western middle class Left, much less in the real world. Neither Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt want them and they never got settlement rights in any vast ME nation - migrant worker, refugee or not.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 14 2020 2:17 utc | 85

Correction: Taiwan's East coast

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 14 2020 2:46 utc | 86

Antonym #85

* About Beirut's silos in their harbour: Google Earth gives a height of 1 to 2 m asl for that area, so no safe depth for tunnels underground next to the sea.

The Israeli occupation forces have been prattling about tunnels for decades. They are tunnel minded morons.

The tunnels that Israel built exist in the Golan Heights to steal water from Syria and redirect it to Israel. Then there are Israeli military constructed tunnels between Israel occupied Palestine and Lebanon. Every now and then when Hezbolah discovers one, the Israelis scream that they have discovered another Hezbolah infiltration tunnel and blow it up (so they say).

Tunnel stories from Israel's occupation military are always BS or their own work.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 14 2020 3:00 utc | 87

The seismic data for Beirut on 4 Aug 2020 from the the European-Mediterranean Seismological Centre (EMSC).

Posted by: DeQuincey | Aug 14 2020 8:51 utc | 88

@Oui | Aug 13 2020 16:47 utc | 4

A thing that puzzles me about the "six explosions equivalent to several tons of high explosive" is that they did not show up in the videos. I watched the various videos on VT and here and in Yahoo, at a guess, about a dozen times in all, but I did not notice any of them. I would have thought that an explosion of several tons of HE would be at least noticeable! You know, I would have thought that it would have made the cloud of smoke shake a bit.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 14 2020 11:03 utc | 89

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 14 2020 11:03 utc | 90

I think it was the Turks looking for gas in the Mediterranean myself. Or Israelis. Those shots need to be well-timed.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 14 2020 11:38 utc | 90

Antonym @86

Why do people rely upon satellite imagery as if we were talking about Mars here? It's freakin' Taiwan! It's a very easy place to visit. Good food too. All of the mainland's regional cuisines plus Japanese and Korean as well.

Anyway, there is one port in eastern Taiwan that can handle containerized freight, but the local infrastructure isn't set up to make it a freight hub. It is a small town and a small port and one or two thoroughly conventional ballistic missiles will take it out of action if necessary, though in fact such a necessity is unlikely to ever arise because any US military strategist could see the place would make a crappy beachhead.

The rest of the "ports" along Taiwan's eastern coast can accommodate fishing vessels, dive boats, whale watch tours, and the occasional crazy sailboat voyager. There is one road on that side of the island that can handle moderately heavy vehicles, and in most places it follows the coast because of the mountains so it would be trivially easy to stop all traffic on it. Mountain --> road --> water. Any American military hardware that does somehow get unloaded in eastern Taiwan during a conflict won't go very far.

That said, eastern Taiwan is some beautiful country. Check it out if only for the biking and hiking. A wonderful sport that was popular when I was last there is "river climbing", in which you hike up smaller waterways from the coast up to their sources in the mountaintops. Fun!

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 14 2020 11:40 utc | 91

Norwegian | Aug 13 2020 18:45 utc | 24

So you believe the Israelis faked the seismic data? Why would they do that?

Non sequitur. It suggests rather, that the six explosions were somewhere else.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 14 2020 11:55 utc | 92

Zico | Aug 13 2020 19:42 utc | 39

With the exception of hezbollah, Arabs are a defeated people. With all their resources and size(population) they're still beholden to Washington and Tel Aviv. They have no dignity.

You forgot the Syrians?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 14 2020 12:06 utc | 93

Just scanned many of the comments here - off the top of my head:

most of the "kingdoms" for lack of more adequate descriptors of the Gulf have populations of migrant workers that equal or outnumber the indigenous populations of those authorities - this holds true up and down and east and west, in the Gulf;

if someone were going to build "an underground city" the worst possible place to try to do that would be at the waterfront of a sea or an ocean - the construction challenges of keeping the water out are almost insurmountable. I worked on building a receiving structure for municipal trash that was located in the terminal moraine of the last glacier (11K yrs ago) where the water table was just under the surface. Structure was 30ft dp, 375 ft lg, and 75 ft. wide. The base was 5 ft' thick concrete, walls 3' thick, and large waterstop at every joint. Was designed thus to prevent the water pressure from the water table being able to "float" the structure. Meticulous construction supervision and inspection, and the structure leaked at least a half-dozen points throughout. The idea that an underground city would have been constructed there - clandestinely and unnoticed - is preposterous.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Aug 14 2020 13:26 utc | 94

Unfortunately the Palestinians who are in majority Sunni Moslems are divided in political ideologies. Many Arabs see them as potential trouble makers. The Jordanians will not forget their violent attempts to take over the country. The Lebanese will no forget that the 1975 war was triggered by the Palestinians and destroyed the country. There are still keeping camps where the Lebanese authority have no access. The Kuwaitis will not forget that the palestinians hosted in Kuwait for decades sided with Saddam Hossein during the 1990 invasion. The Syrians had a similar experience in 2011 when the Palestinians turned their back on the Syrian government that integrated them in the country.
Arabs have good reasons to be ambiguous about Palestinians as they see them as destructive anywhere they are hosted. Therefore many Arabs have lost interest in the fate of the Palestinians and just want to get rid of them in a way or another. That is what Israel has always wanted, to get rid of them and settle them in arab countries. Israel has not succeeded for the good reason that no Arab countries want to integrate the Palestinians in their country. Therefore Israel has still the burden of finding a solution so the Palestinians stop claiming the now Israeli lands. Israel hopes that they will be paid handsomely by the Gulf countries to find a solution. The UAE will probably bribe the Palestinians too to weaken their demands.
Knowing that Palestinians have the moral support of all moslems vs the Jewish Israel that occupies holy Moslem sites, the financial support of Turkey, Qatar and Iran, the task will be very bumpy and possibly unachievable. The USA needs to destroy Iran, bribe Turkey and Qatar, as they bribed Egypt, Jordan and the UAE , then there could be a solution...

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 14 2020 14:29 utc | 95

The Pals were sold down the river by the Arabs from the 1980's, and since then Israel does whatever it wants with USA blessing.

Posted by: idesOfMark | Aug 14 2020 9:20 utc | 89

Quite incorrect. Israel is in a very dodgy position, deadly in the case of Hizbullah. Why do you think they spend so much time trying to make out it was Hizbullah's fault?

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 14 2020 14:44 utc | 96

I suspect that is the plan: turn the people against Hezbollah, eject Hezbollah from government, and then drive Hezbollah out of the country (meaning civil war).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14 2020 0:47 utc | 77

That might be the plan (indeed almost certainly is, see Macron's supposed deal, where Hizbullah is dissolved), but it's unworkable, because Hizbullah is not going to dissolve itself, and the Lebanese state is not powerful enough to expel them. There won't be a western military intervention, and Israel doesn't have the military power on the ground.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 14 2020 14:52 utc | 97

Virgile @96

So... the Israelis are working towards a "Final Solution"? There are historical precedents that they can look to.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 14 2020 14:52 utc | 98

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 14 2020 14:52 utc | 99

Virgile's post is nonsense, and not worth bothering about. It's just an expression of Israeli dreams.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 14 2020 14:56 utc | 99

Flogging and stoning are legal punishments in the UAE...i am sure uae will get along fine with israel....

Posted by: james | Aug 14 2020 15:21 utc | 100

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