Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 23, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-67

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

> A necessary condition for a person like Donald Trump ever winning a major election is now back in play: No one thinks he is going to win. <
> The Press Secretary's statement quotes Trump distancing himself from We Build the Wall on July 12 this year. That's a year and a half after the private border-wall campaign launched—and the week of ex-U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman's unexpected and unexplained ouster. <
> Navalny said himself that he suffered from diabetes in 2019, giving some credence to this explanation. <

---
Other issues:

Belarus color revolution / coup attempt:

Covid-19:

Syria:

Big bang:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 23, 2020 at 13:05 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page | next page »

vk @294: "The witnesses say there wasn't any domestic altercations."

It doesn't matter what witnesses say in a domestic disturbance call. They could be intimidated into silence, or friends of the attacker. The police are required to make the arrest anyway.

These laws were enacted specifically to protect women who are possibly being assaulted by their partners. It is well known that women will often defend their attacker when police arrive and will not press charges, which is why these mandatory arrest laws were created.

It doesn't matter what witnesses say until after the arrest and detention of the male in the disturbance. The woman who called the police doesn't have to press changes. That is automatic after arrest if investigators find any grounds for charges.

In mandatory arrest states, the domestic disturbance call sets in motion an automatic sequence of events that the police must follow.

Had Blake not resisted arrest and instead submitted to the police demands, and the investigators found no evidence of injuries, he probably would have been released a short while later. That kind of stupidity goes on all the time.

Should people have to submit to demands made by police? I don't know. There seems to be disagreement over that. It seems reasonable to me to not ignore them and instead listen very carefully when they have drawn their guns, though.

Should the guy have been shot? I don't even think cops should be armed, so no. But they are, and so anyone who just walks away from them when they are trying to arrest you is a freakin' moron who is no asset to humanity's gene pool. America is a tough place like that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 19:17 utc | 301

William Gruff @Aug26 19:17 #301

Had Blake not resisted arrest ...

Resisting arrest is a death sentence? And the cop on the beat is judge, jury, and executioner?

=
America is a tough place like that.

Just can't bring yourself to say ... "police state"?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 19:27 utc | 302

Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 19:05 utc | 299: "Let's be clear on this: The officer wasn't trying to arrest Blake when he riddled him with bullets, he was trying to kill him."

Just as Circe claims Putin is clearly trying to kill Navalny? All these people clearly trying to kill people but they cannot get the deed done, for some reason.

Sorry, bunny, but all of this "clarity" people seem to have just isn't clear to me at all.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 19:29 utc | 303

William Gruff @Aug26 19:29 #303

Just as Circe claims Putin is clearly trying to kill Navalny?

7 bullets in the back at point blank range is rather more evidence of deadly intent than Circe's "tiny little mind" (as Jen says) can muster against Putin.

=
... all of this "clarity" people seem to have just isn't clear to me at all.

Please clarify for us how many bullets to the back at point blank range constitute intent to kill in the Gruff universe.

And keep in mind that the police had other options like: 1) fire a warning shot; 2) shoot the car tires; 3) shoot him in the leg.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 19:49 utc | 304

Jackrabbit @302: "Just can't bring yourself to say ... "police state"?"

Indeed I can! Sadly, most Americans like it that way, so I don't expect it to change.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 19:54 utc | 305

@ 303
Police are trained to fire fatal (not wounding) shots. Obviously the training didn't take on this clumsy aspirant in blue. He's probably receiving raspberries from his fellow cops for his failure.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 19:55 utc | 306

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 19:17 utc | 301

To characterize, legally, domestic abuse, familial bonds must exist. It has to be husband vs wife, parent vs children, grandparent vs grand/children etc. That's the legal definition of domestic abuse. Put another way, it has to happen inside members of the same domus (house; family + dependents). What it seems is two random women were fighting between themselves in a public area, when Jacob Blake tried to separate the fight. No familial bonds involved.

The only difference between domestic disturbance and domestic violence, as far as I know in the USA, is if there physical contact or not (the violence requiring the contact).

The familial (power relations) bond is essential to characterize the crime/infraction; otherwise, every bar fight would be domestic violence.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 19:57 utc | 307

William Gruff @301--

Another little known outcome of domestic violence calls is the violation of Due Process through blanket No Contact Orders that are invoked immediately without any hearing whatsoever and can destroy a family and even contribute to the death of a family member--I know this personally. As I've written, there's quite a lot that's wrong regarding the Law and its application via its supposed mediation by the Bill of Rights. All too often bad law is made with the best of intentions, and much of the law related to domestic disturbances recently legislated falls into that category.

As for the arrest warrant, I'll bet it was for an FTA over a traffic infraction, but that's yet to be made public. One of my hypotheses dealing with the USA's social dysfunction has to do with the fact that the vast majority of our society has suffered from trauma at some point in their lives--often at a very young age like those kids who witnessed the attempted murder of their father: They'll be subject to all the malbehaviors such trauma invokes. Even if all forms of human-induced trauma were to cease, our society would take generations to heal. And even then, trauma would still exist as it can be inflicted via nature, Hurricane Laura being a prime example, as well as things like COVID; but those causes of trauma are much easier to remedy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 20:00 utc | 308

vk @307--

You're mistaken. Domestic violence can occur outside the household and does regularly.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 20:03 utc | 309

vk @307

Sure, but those details are for the courts to figure out afterwards, not for cops to determine while they are answering a call.

Anyway, the laws in the US have been expanding all the time to include more different relationships in the "domestic" category, and marriage isn't necessary in most places any longer.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 20:10 utc | 310

Back to the Middle East, and today's "accident" of Russian vehicles crashing into American demonstrates how much the US position is in decline, whatever may be Trump's stated desire to "keep the oil".

The Arab tribes who actually own the fields have just declared against the US, and for Asad. So sabotage. The US has declared abandonment of Taji, its main base in Iraq, under pressure from the Iraqi government, and if I understand correctly, committed to complete withdrawal from Iraq. That last could be not correct, but it's not looking good for the US.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 26 2020 20:11 utc | 311

karlof1 @308

Yes, lots of damaged goods in America, no doubt about it. Perhaps the healing can be done in as little as one generation, but that would only be after revolutionary change happened first. America needs a cultural revolution just as much as it needs an economic one.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 20:18 utc | 312

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 20:03 utc | 309

But it has to be between two intimate people. As far as everybody knows, the fight happened between three complete strangers.

Domestic disturbance is another name (as far as I know of US Law, which is little) for domestic abuse, the preference for each term varying with the State.

--//--

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 20:10 utc | 310

I didn't find any news stating there's a warrant. The police department, so far, hasn't made an official pronouncement. The only thing that came out was a RT article (which it must've taken from Fox or something like that) stating Jacob Blake had previous cases of domestic abuse.

The only source we have so far of the warrant was this new commenter here, by the nickname of "visak", who claims to live in the city and to have read it in the "local news". And he himself stated that the cops only "discovered" along the way that there was one - like, what, they received it through their Whatsapp or something like that?

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 20:29 utc | 313

@ 311 Laguerre
The entertaining bumper-car video has been removed from all US websites but here it is (for now) on the Daily Mail.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 20:33 utc | 314

vk @313

It's in the transcript of the public portion of the police dispatch.

Whether Blake actually had a warrant out for his arrest or not has not been confirmed, but the cops responding to the domestic disturbance call were told he had a warrant out for him. I think it is best for them to assume that the information they are given is accurate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 20:39 utc | 315

@ 311 Laguerre
re: logistical support of US forces
Is the US force in NE Syria now supported entirely by air, DYK?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 20:39 utc | 316

Peter AU1 @ 236:

"Could this be as much due to culture as religion? Religion does also influence culture, but take the ancient Persian empire which more or less brought peace to many often warring groups, which lived according to their own culture within the empire. "

Most certainly, and cultural norms affect one another over and above separate religious differences, which is what I admire in Putin - starting with effecting peace in Bosnia, by appealing to the peaceloving parts of the Muslim community there. Most of the great religions have peaceful accord in their doctrines - hah, a little like viruses that way, but really it's a good point, thanks. China I would not call a religious country, but they have traditions back through the centuries, part of their dna now, so definitely it is culture, not religion, in their case. I admire their respect for the elderly, and for each of their citizens.

Where religion goes wrong, and it most certainly can do that, is when it takes on the trappings of a corrupted culture and counts as success its adherence to those wrongful mores. Then folk rightly abhor it, and the sad part of that is that they may miss out on the ethical lessons that should have been at the heart of it. And those false practitioners are those of whom it was said it would be better they had a millstone tied around their necks and were tossed into the sea than that they hurt a hair of one of our little ones.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 26 2020 20:44 utc | 317

Gotta keep up with the lingo. Used to be a cop could assassinate a Black guy for "reaching for his waistband" and now it's "getting in his car."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 20:45 utc | 318

this whole thing about police killing people boils down to something quite simple. The police have failed to do what they are supposed to do.

if they were called for a domestic disturbance they needed to fix that. If Mr Blake had an outstanding warrant then he might have been taken into custody.

Instead they tried to kill a man. That is not right, ever.

as for the mystery of police killing instead of wounding...I said this before but the short answer is that if you wound someone you can be sued for damages and those awards can be really generous. Dead people can't sue for damages...

Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 26 2020 20:46 utc | 319

dan of steele @319

I think the cops were trying to take Blake into custody, but he wouldn't listen to them. One of the cops was a woman and the other looked kinda gay (some police departments are getting very "inclusive" these days). Blake being a jock just ignored them, and the gay-looking guy got all butthurt over some jock giving him a hard time doing his job, so he shot the guy.

Is it right? No, of course not. They should instead use magic to gently take people into custody. Maybe teleport them into a spa where their tensions can be massaged away and their hair done up for their booking photos. People would be less averse to being arrested if cops would make it a pleasant experience for them.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 20:59 utc | 320

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 20:39 utc | 315

No, no, no. Your link doesn't give us a transcript. It is a reconstruction made by the newspaper with quotes from the dispatch.

The part that mentions the warrant is an interpolation by the newspaper, and it is from May. It's just a gratuitous information the journalist gave to the reader, and is not related to the case at all.

All the dispatch states is that the cops were given an address - which happens to be where Blake lived. The call from 5:11 PM is from a woman stating Blake "wasn't supposed to be here" and "took the complainant's keys [presumably, to her car]". "Wasn't supposed to be here" as in here, now, in the present point of space-time (August twenty something), not in May.

Then, there's just the information from the first dispatcher that Blake was "trying to leave [the house]" and that the woman (the complainant) herself had become "uncooperative". He/she calls a second one.

Then there's just the info the second dispatcher called a third one. The third one called for two more, after which the dispatch ends (the shooting had already happened, only three minutes after the first dispatcher), and the newspaper complete the story with what we already know so far.

Long story short, the police department only claims that the dispatch proves the episode as a whole happened very quickly, in just a little bit more than three minutes. Indeed, that's what's in the headline (and not that he had a warrant).

The newspaper itself does a disclaimer:

The Journal Sentinel typically does not rely on such radio traffic to report on breaking news, as the information can change or be inaccurate. But this audio reveals some of what police officers were hearing, and the time stamps of the call provide a general time frame of the shooting.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 21:01 utc | 321

re: logistical support of US forces
Is the US force in NE Syria now supported entirely by air, DYK?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 20:39 utc | 316

No, I don't think so. But it may happen soon. The American bases in Iraq are closing down, as too isolated when the local population detests them. It may be only the occasional rocket, but it's not going to stop. You'd know better than me how US bases can survive by air supply.

The issue I know most about, the survival of Da'ish, suggests that the Iraqi government, although pro-American, is not winning the battle against them.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 26 2020 21:08 utc | 322

William Gruff I don't know how old you are, I am 65 and remember when it wasn't like this.

I don't really understand how we got to where we are now from Andy of Mayberry, Billy Jack, and Matt Dillon. The first two never drew their weapons and Matt usually got his guy without pulling his. I fully realize I am seemingly naïve about this but there really was a time in my life when we called the cops when we needed help, and they would help. Give you jump start or call a tow truck...maybe even help change a flat.

those days are long gone and has been replaced by fear and loathing. who is responsible for that? some of it is the fault of the cops themselves but most of it is from the influencers who make the police behavior "normal"

my $.02

Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 26 2020 21:11 utc | 323

vk @321: "It's just a gratuitous information the journalist gave to the reader."

Wrong.

It is information that was given to the cops responding to the call. "The dispatcher tells officers that there’s an alert for a person wanted for some reason, known in police radio code as a 10-99".

The cops responding to the call don't seem to have been told what that reason is, but they now know that there is very likely someone there who should be in custody but isn't. This ratchets up the risk for the cops into the "dangerous" territory.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 21:14 utc | 324

William Gruff @312--

"Damaged goods in America." From Xinhuanet's fact check of Pompeo's speech:

"The United States proclaims itself as a 'beacon of freedom,' which is no more than an illusion that deceives both its people and the world. According to a survey conducted by the Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, 80 percent of Americans say the country is headed in the wrong direction, an all-time high in AP-NORC surveys. According to a poll published by the Pew Research Center on July 1, only 12 percent of Americans say they are satisfied with the way things are going in the country, while 87 percent say they are dissatisfied, and most Americans are dissatisfied with how the government operates. According to a Gallup poll, American pride has reached the lowest point in two decades, with only 20 percent of Americans satisfied with the way things are going in their country. Extreme pride among whites has fallen below 50 percent for the first time and non-whites 24 percent."

And the rest of the rebuttal is truly devastating when compared to the illusion put forth. The great misfortune is very few people within the Outlaw US Empire will ever read the truths published. But even if they read them, how many would act as the polling numbers cited suggest and oust Trump while demanding they--the public--be listened to, not the Donors and Wall Street though continuing protests?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 21:22 utc | 325

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 21:14 utc | 324

No. You're entirely wrong on this one.

Here's the complete excerpt from your link:

Sometime before 5 p.m. - A neighbor sees Jacob Blake barbecuing outside his apartment at 2805 40th St.

5:11 p.m. - Officers are sent to Blake’s address for a complaint of “family trouble.” A dispatcher notifies officers that a woman called police and said Blake “isn’t supposed to be there and he took the complainant's keys and is refusing to give them back.”

The dispatcher tells officers that there’s an alert for a person wanted for some reason, known in police radio code as a 10-99, at that address. Blake had a warrant issued for his arrest stemming from a domestic case in May.

The dispatcher knew what was going on (i.e. there was a man inside a woman's house, "not supposed to be there", in a context of "family trouble"). The code only means (probably) that the cops don't know the exact type of crime; or, alternatively, that they don't know who's the real culprit (it could just be a bitter ex-wife/ex-girlfriend?). The dispatcher chose not to tell the details to the cops so the cops (probably) wouldn't get in the place with a bias (e.g. the man is the abuser).

The code is there (10-99), so we can trust this piece of information from the newspaper (the entire paragraph is the journalist's words, not the dispatcher's).

But the second sentence is a complete interpolation, which the journalists put there possibly because he could (maybe to show they're doing their homework? Some journalists are crazy for field work, and they like to show it off so their bosses don't complain to them when they see the info in another newspaper).

Besides, warrants are usually executed (in the Western liberal tradition) when the condemned is at home. The cops go to his/her home, during commercial time, knock on his/her door with the warrant in hands and peacefully handcuff him/her at the outside of the home. You just don't intercept a non-homeless guy, minutes after he's done a barbecue, to execute a warrant. Therefore, the 10-99 must refer to the complaint from the woman, not the May warrant, as cops can only arrest without a warrant in cases of flagrant.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 21:27 utc | 326

On correlated news, it seems they found their brand new serial killer:

17-year-old arrested and charged after 2 killed during riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin

Here's his name, if you don't want to click on the RT link:

An Illinois teen has been charged with first-degree murder over the shooting of three protesters – two fatal – amid the ongoing riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Alleged militia member Kyle Rittenhouse was arrested in his home state.

Seems the boy is white, as he's accused of being from the "Blue Lives Matter" movement.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 21:39 utc | 327

dan of steele @323

Americans kill casually. It is just another day when Americans kill. They glorify it.

The US has been at war constantly for most Americans' lives these days. Not one day of peace for ones younger than you. Unlike in days of Andy of Mayberry when this killing was hidden from us by our very thoughtful mass media, today we have the Internet. America's killing cannot be hidden, so instead we must view killing as a noble thing. Slaughter needs to be something children can be proud of their parents or older siblings for doing.

Oh, the liberals will assure you that they abhor killing. But they "respect the troops" who do the killing, and they vote for the politicians who order the killing. They absolutely adore Obama, who was a brutal mass murderer. They appreciate it when their mass media couches the horrific crimes of their empire in pleasantly sounding banal euphemisms.

Killing is more American than apple pie these days. It is part of our culture. It is more of our "identity" than is being Black, or woman, or gay, or an irrelevant old fart that nobody listens to.

Cops are just a symptom if America's disease, not the cause. The killing would not only continue if police forces were all eliminated, but would increase. America freed would be a veritable festival of slaughter. I think that may be where we are headed, in fact. There are certainly no trends in our society that could change our direction.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 21:42 utc | 328

William Gruff @328--

"I think that may be where we are headed, in fact. There are certainly no trends in our society that could change our direction."

This article and info in the comments support your thesis. I don't know, but I can imagine victims of the Empire see it disintegrating via its own internal contradictions and allow themselves a wry smile. But IMO the linked article begs a question: Are US citizens responsible for their own ignorance and thus their ruined society, or are they merely victims of their own Empire, yet ignorant of that condition too?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 21:56 utc | 329

Loungo faceplants twice in a row

karlof1 wrote about how Loungo got it wrong about Belarus.

Loungo calls for civil war because a 17-year old out-of-state gun nut was forced to defend himself in a situation that he lacks the maturity to participate in?

Police murder an unarmed man and trolls tell us that was justified because the guy wouldn't follow police directions but a 17-year kills someone and Loungo sees him as a reluctant hero of all that is good and right?

Loungo is virtually a Trump Admin operative. Much like the troll "visak", actually.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 22:20 utc | 330

I am getting all the same local news visak is. There is a deluge of news. Much of it is false. Some looks like trial balloons. Lots of spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt. The approved narrative is not yet fixed.

One reported fact that looks right is that Kenosha police carry .40 semi-automatic pistols. If you believe that Black was shot seven times at point blank range with that gun and survived you are going to believe anything. We are being fed a load of shit. Quite amazing that all here are perfectly prepared to accept that the Navalny story is a complete crock and yet swallow whole whatever MSM shovels on other topics.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 26 2020 22:24 utc | 331

An ongoing dilemma here within the Outlaw US Empire is the attempt to reopen schools of all types in a situation where there're over 51 different sets of criteria, not one unitary plan. As such, many states will not begin schools at the usual times, with those that tried having to close them abruptly due to COVID. In sharp contrast is Russia's plan as reported today:

"Over 90,000 various education institutions across Russia have completed the necessary preparations and comply with the anti-terrorist and fire safety rules. The equipment and technical resources have been checked. Most schools have high-speed internet connection. With the help of the Communications Ministry, all schools will be connected by 2022.

"And, of course, strong epidemiologic protection is another extremely important task we have addressed today. Together with Rospotrebnadzor, we sent notification to the regions with a list of clear rules and requirements that are in compliance with the doctors’ recommendations that should be followed. The main rules include disinfection of premises, separation of student flows, giving every class their own classroom and thermometry. Let me repeat that all schools and education institutions, including new ones, are ready to implement these measures.

"(The Minister went on to talk about awareness-building among teachers, students and their parents to ensure sanitary safety; preparations for a nationwide parents’ meeting on August 28 and the national Health open lesson on September 2; and the voluntary flu vaccination for the teaching and administrative school staff that will begin in September.)"

The parenthesized portion is what I want to draw attention to, the two nationwide meetings specifically. I can say with absolute confidence that no such meetings will occur within the Outlaw US Empire mainly because Trump doesn't give a damn.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 22:27 utc | 332

Laguerre #322

The issue I know most about, the survival of Da'ish, suggests that the Iraqi government, although pro-American, is not winning the battle against them.

Da'ish will go as soon as the USA leaves, as soon as the USA base in SE Syria is liberated, etc etc.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 26 2020 22:28 utc | 333

@karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 17:09 utc | 285

The assumption must then be that even a vaccine won't confer any degree of long-term immunity/protection, which will render the suite of COVIDs akin to the numerous types of influenzas although somewhat deadlier.

There is still some hope. Vaccines can still stop the pandemic even if they're only temporarily effective. If we make it impossible for the virus to reproduce, if only for a month, the virus will die. This requires the vaccine(s) to be administered all over the world, of course, and that could be a problem, as the anti-vaxxers in the US will be hard to educate.


It appears that the presumption some of us entertained that mask wearing would become a norm if one wanted to protect one's health will be proven correct even with vaccines widely available.

That may be so.

Posted by: Cyril | Aug 26 2020 22:32 utc | 334

Rabbit @330--

The 17 yr old from Illinois tripped, fell, and in his panic opened fire thus causing the mayhem as per the link @329 and its comments. Luongo's a weird beast, but I haven't the time or inclination to figure him out. The situation's akin to a Walking Dead episode except that the zombies are alive and armed.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 22:36 utc | 335

For the, "One 9mm round is all you need to safely drop a perp," crowd, here is a female sheriff going through 7+ rounds to drop a knife-wielding man charging. And she clears a jam like a grizzled-vet.

The eternal question: "how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?"

That damned owl will always say three!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2020 22:39 utc | 336

Wrong link. Apologies.

Here it is.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2020 22:42 utc | 337

Cyril @334--

Thanks for your reply! I look at the vast contrast between China and the Outlaw US Empire, China and the world, and between the world and the Outlaw US Empire. Chinese have almost 100% confidence in their government to do the right thing in their interest whereas the opposite's the case here. IMO, most of the world would follow China's lead. The Pandemic tore the clothes from the Emperor and his agents, yet he and his ministers still think they're clothed as do the 40% of the citizenry that think Trump's on their side when he's most certainly not.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 22:48 utc | 338

@ Don Bacon with the Syria "bumper car" link...thanks

I suspect the US troops were peeing in their pants but want to ask about the white car in the video? It didn't seem to turn around like the US troop carriers.

When does the real shooting start? And what follows that? How many fronts and phases to our civilization war?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2020 22:55 utc | 339

Mystery solved:

Different standards lead to Sweden's false positive COVID-19 results: Chinese biotech firm

In other words: the problem wasn't with the tests, but with the ineptness of the Swedish people with properly judging the results of the tests.

I think this was also the case with Spain, France and the other countries who were registering "false positives" with Chinese tests during the first months of the pandemic.

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2020 0:44 utc | 340

If you thought the Kenosha shooting couldn't get any worse ...

Kenosha Police face outrage over their seemingly preferential treatment of shooting suspect

... outrage after the local police chief blamed the homicides on demonstrators who were violating curfew, and video circulated of officers seemingly responding to the overnight reports of gunfire but showing no interest in the apparent shooter even as he walked toward them with his rifle visible.

His comments faced immediate backlash: "'Involved in firearms' means a white militant killed two protesters."


Kenosha Police Refuse to Comment on Cops Encouraging ‘Militia’, Justify Giving Alleged Shooter Bottle of Water
Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis disputed the existence of video footage showing Kenosha law enforcement acting chummy with the armed men. When asked by a different reporter why the militia members were encouraged to be there by local law enforcement, he quickly shut down the line of inquiry.

“I don’t have any information that that existed,” Miskinis said.

The footage does exist, however, and does not appear to support the narrative advanced during the press conference.

“Hey, thank you guys,” one officer tells the militia members in a widely-viewed video. “You need water?”

Rittenhouse can then be seen walking up to obtain the water from the Lenco BearCat armored personnel carrier–apparently the only armed individual to take police up on their offer.

“We appreciate you guys, we really do,” an officer says as Rittenhouse catches the tossed bottle of water, per the video shot by Kristen Harris of TheRundownLive.

Miskinis was later pressed as to whether law enforcement appreciated the militia members’ being there for “back up.”

“We’re done talking,” he told the reporter.


Facebook chose not to act on militia complaints before Kenosha shooting
At least two separate Facebook users reported the account for inciting violence prior to the shooting ...

It wasn’t until Wednesday morning, more than nine hours after the shooting took place, that Kenosha Guard was cited by Facebook as violating the Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy and removed.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 0:53 utc | 341

I read or heard somewhere that he only got hit with three of the seven shots.
I know that cops automatically assume that the person who called in the complaint is correct and that the person they accuse is the guilty party.
In this case it sure looks like that is the case.
If he was trying to break up two women fighting and then out of the blue cops show up who have already decided he is the culprit, I can see him ignoring them and with disgust and decide to leave.

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 0:56 utc | 342

Well, that didn't last long:

Liberal Democrats set to elect fourth leader in five years

I sincerely had lost count of how many leaders the LibDems had since Brexit. I only remember Vince Cable (the one during or right after Brexit's victory) and Jo Swinson (the one in these last elections). There's a black hole between the two in my mind.

So much for "centrism"...

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2020 1:02 utc | 343

Finally, it came out. The official version of the Wisconsin DoJ:

Wisconsin DOJ Names Cop Who Shot Jacob Blake, Says No Bodycam Footage of Incident Exists

They stated Blake only had a knife, which the cops already knew of, and no other weapons were found in his car.

The official reason for the shooting was Blake's apparent resistance to the taser. Finally the taser appeared (so visak's local news version is correct on this one). However, it means nothing, as the cops must defend the shooting was justified, so claiming the taser didn't work is a must. Only an eventual eye witness can prove the cops really used the taser.

They say there's no footage, as cops don't use cameras in the city. The neighbor smartphone video is the only visual evidence we'll ever have.

They also confirmed that what triggered the dispatch was a disgruntled girlfriend (not an ex), who called the police because he was in the neighborhood. So it had nothing to do with some warrant (in this, visak's local news was wrong).

I'm posting the Sputniknews summary for one simple reason: the link to the report is dead. In fact, the entire website of the WiDoJ seems to be offline.

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2020 1:17 utc | 344

Yesterday when I woke up and read the headline "shot point blank in back 7 times" about Kenosha I couldn't believe what I was reading. I never watch the videos associated with these types of events, I find it unsettling to watch people being killed. But I made an exception yesterday because the headline sounded so outrageous. What I read, which I have stated in previous posts, and saw in the video led me to my current position.

I didn't make any of that up, I read it yesterday morning. I didn't bookmark it, as I am not in the habit bookmarking things I have read. I assumed everyone else had read the same thing I had. I am astonished that I seem to be the only person to have read this on the internet.

I never said I lived in Kenosha. I said I live near Kenosha.

My original post had stated that I am no friend of the police, but society cant function without them, they clearly need to change, drastically. I support that change.

The two sides in this are at such extreme opposites I dont see how compromise is possible, and if there is no compromise, what is going to happen? Escalating violence by both sides which will eventually lead to a civil war.

How do we avoid that? Can we avoid that?

ps. Some of the posters here have no clue whatsoever concerning police procedures. Some of the "alternatives" are absurd. Shoot out the tires, shot in the leg, a warning shot. Also, not telling the cops what they are going into so as not to "prejudice their thinking" prior to answering a call. Absolutely absurd.

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 1:31 utc | 345

vk - I never said they showed up because he had a warrant.

Another poster earlier showed that the cops were told a person on the scene had an outstanding warrant. Perhaps the cops attempt to apprehend him on this warrant is what caused the physical confrontation with the police.

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 1:43 utc | 346

vk

@Aug26 16:05 #280 I linked to a second video. When it begins, it seems that Blake at the rear of the car because he soon appears on the ground at the rear wheel.

I think Blake was tased at the rear of his car. Then he crawls to the rear wheel.

At the rear wheel, an officer appears to attempt to handcuff him. It's not easy to see it but apparently Blake broke free of that attempt. He then gets on his feet and moves around the front of his car to the driver's door where he is shot.

<> <> <> <>

In both videos, Blake never appears to be violent toward the police. He just wants to get away.

Did he believe that the arrest was unwarranted/unlawful? Was he even informed that he was being placed under arrest? I remember the Atlanta shooting. The police didn't even inform the suspect that he was being placed under arrest, they just grabbed his arm and produced handcuffs.

It is now reported that Blake was shot within 3 minutes of the arrival of the police. So he was tased even sooner than that.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 2:05 utc | 347

The troll is back.

With his trolling mumbo-jumbo.

And urgent questions designed to mislead.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 2:10 utc | 348

Jackass - What are you the local watch dog?

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 2:12 utc | 349

How much are they paying you, visak?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 2:18 utc | 350

So now we are hearing that he had a knife that the cops managed to take from him.

A man armed with a knife fighting with cops should be allowed to walk away when he has had enough? Do we not consider this person a danger to society? Can anyone now decide if they want to be arrested or not?

Sorry, people who do things like that deserve to be shot. As someone else has said, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

Attaching the police reform movement wagon to this horse is the most detrimental thing to that movement that one could possibly do.

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 2:32 utc | 351

William Gruff@ 138:

"Americans kill casually. It is just another day when Americans kill. They glorify it... Unlike in days of Andy of Mayberry when this killing was hidden from us by our very thoughtful mass media, today we have the Internet. America's killing cannot be hidden, so instead we must view killing as a noble thing. Slaughter needs to be something children can be proud of their parents or older siblings for doing..."

You tar Americans with far too broad a brush. The press in the Vietnam era was not corrupted as today - Americans knew what happened then, and they faced it by protesting. They protested the Iraq war before it happened. They voted for Obama because he promised to be different from war crazed Bush and Cheney and Wolfowitz and Colin Powell and Condaleeza Rice.

He was voted for in overwhelming numbers, as the youth of that day was re-energized with hope, and black people as well. I remember the moments of sheer happiness when that victory was announced ---at last the national nightmare was over!!!

But it wasn't.

What you say in this post is a LIE.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 27 2020 2:51 utc | 352

Sorry, that should have been William Gruff @ 328

Posted by: juliania | Aug 27 2020 2:56 utc | 353

@ visak # 351 who wrote
"
Attaching the police reform movement wagon to this horse is the most detrimental thing to that movement that one could possibly do.
"

LOL!!!

I am the MoA public finance troll who comments here continually about how any movement that is not about making finance a public utility is the most detrimental thing folks can do.

Global private finance is maintained by force and the threat of force....has been that way for centuries. Maybe if folks take on the force suppressing them they will get to the cult behind the curtain....I posit that humanity would need a lot less police if the government was by and for the people instead of the cult of rich at the top.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2020 2:57 utc | 354

psycho - I wont disagree with your statement, but in relation to mine it is a non-sequitur. What was your point?

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 3:03 utc | 355

@ visac # 355 asking what the point of my comment was

You posit that adding police reform to the BLM movement would be bad and I tried to provide a deeper perspective of the whole situation with police force in a context that shows police force connection to the bigger picture.

You came into the bar all reactive about the shooting instead of waiting like some of us for more information and I am sensitive to folks not admitting that there are social structure issues that are problems.....like a police force and military that are no longer defensive but projecting control for the dictatorship of global private finance. I personally think the the BLM movement is more of a waste of energy then a police reform movement would be.....maybe BLM can evolve into such.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2020 3:36 utc | 356

@ 352 julianna
The press in the Vietnam era was not corrupted as today

Au contraire. The authoritative guide to the journalistic malfeasance which brings us continual war is Norman Solomon's "War Made Easy -- How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death." Reporters must be loyal government stenographers or they aren't reporters any longer.

Dan Rather, an iconic US journalist: "Look I'm an American. I never tried to kid anybody that I'm some internationalist or something. And when my country is at war, I want my country to win, whatever the definition of 'win' might be. Now, I can't and don't argue that that is coverage without prejudice. About that I am prejudiced." So Dan brought us through the criminal war against Vietnam and the Nixon presidency. -- from Norman Solomon's "War Made Easy" -- How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 27 2020 3:40 utc | 357

Will wonders never cease.

As soon as the curve was 'bent', an astro-turfed Libertarian mob suddenly appeared to implore us to reject masks and lock-downs.

Now Trump's coronation is interrupted by the shooting of yet another black man and a pro-Police State troll suddenly appears to blame the victim.

Don't feed the troll.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 4:24 utc | 358

psycho - "You posit that adding police reform to the BLM movement ..."

Are you daft? You make no sense. What is the BLM movement if it is not a police reform movement?

What a waste of time this has been. Next time I decide to chime in at the "bar", I will make sure to avoid moe, larry, and curly. There are certainly many others here with valid things to say.

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 4:25 utc | 359


fyi "the notion that 'Canada is better', especially when compared with US foreign policy has persisted for many years. Recent events at the UN have, however, exposed the true nature of Canada's global positions, particularly in the matter of its blind and unconditional support for Israel." Ramzy Baroud

Palestine Deleted
https://mondoweiss.net/2020/08/palestine-deleted/

"CBC radio host Duncan McCue issued an on-air apology for using the word 'Palestine' on the Public Broadcaster's flagship current-affairs show."

Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 27 2020 5:17 utc | 360

Yankistan full spectrum spying looks be flogged off to entrepreneur. They will make Nigerian scammers look like amateurs.

We get a bit of stuff in from China. My wife does the orders now as some years ago I started making too many typos. The last parcel was held up in customs for a bit as it was slightly over the threshold, so customs, tariffs and GST had to be paid.
Today my wife ets a phone call from home affairs. She had never heard of them so she hangs up. I look them up and they are to do with borders and customs and so forth so thought should ring them back. Tried the number on my phone and nothing. it would just cut off. Tried it on hers and it goes through. It me me I am connecting to a yankistan number. No department of home affairs in yankistan.
Eat your heart out Nigerians. Scamming is now an official occupation in yankistan.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 27 2020 5:41 utc | 361

Already in 2007 American scientists around Ralph Baric published on the risks of a novel zoonotic SARS-CoV possibility that attaches to the ACE2 receptors in human airways - for starters.

https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/5/2274#skip-link

No American military secrecy but open science, that was shifted to Wuhan after 2015 due to self expressed risks of chimerical experiments trying to find a vaccine, when the Chinese got the first Level 4 bio lab; much closer to the dreaded bats too.

If they didn't manage a vaccine in 13 years they were either underfunded, dumb or it is too complicated - without harming the human hosts.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 27 2020 9:19 utc | 362

So now we are hearing that he had a knife that the cops managed to take from him.

i'm hearing it from a bootlicker, who heard a different version from the cops. you know what a throwdown gun is? and yet bootlicker style you rush to accept the police version of things, just as you probably rushed to accept that the murdered georgia jogger was a burglar. there's always an excuse, and almost always a smear job by the cops against the people they kill. i'm going to wait for some evidence, and so far i don't see any. the person who shot the video says he didn't have a weapon, and the cops say they found a knife on the floorboard of the car after (note, after) they shot him 7 times in the back, so no they didn't "manage to take it from him", that's just a dishonest attempt to put their actions in a positive light after the shooting. assuming they are telling the truth and didn't plant the weapon. according to the mouthpiece from the doj reporting this, they don't have functioning body cameras. that's very convenient. all we can do is rely on eyewitnesses and camera phones, but that proved sufficient to show the cops were lying in the george floyd case, and that the violent sadistic thugs who murdered the jogger were lying about chasing down a burglar who attacked them.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 27 2020 9:32 utc | 363

the cops lie like the empire lies to cover up their crimes, and that makes sense since they are the thin blue line that protects the people that own our society by squashing resistance. and it's always purportedly for some noble purpose, protecting society or advancing freedom. there's always some bullshit to justify it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 27 2020 9:35 utc | 364

Interesting article on the lockdowns from Globalresearch.com

https://www.globalresearch.ca/global-capitalism-world-government-and-the-corona-crisis/5712312

"The pandemic constitutes an act of economic warfare against humanity which has resulted in global poverty and mass unemployment.
Politicians are lying. Neither the lockdown nor the closing down of national economies constitute a solution to the public health crisis."

I do regard Sars2 as a serious public health crisis, but have to agree that what we are seeing with these lockdowns is that,

"The crisis redefines the structure of the global economic landscape. It destabilizes small and medium sized enterprises Worldwide, it precipitates entire sectors of the global economy including air travel, tourism, retail trade, manufacturing, etc. into bankruptcy. The lockdown creates famine in developing countries. It has geopolitical implications.
...
"Let’s be clear. This is an imperial agenda. What do the global financial elites want? To privatize the State? To own and privatize the entire planet?

The tendency is towards the centralization and concentration of economic power. Heavily indebted national governments are instruments of Big Money. They are proxies. Key political appointments are controlled by lobby groups representing Wall Street, The Military Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, Big Oil, the Corporate Media and the Digital Communications Giants, etc.

Big Money in Europe and America (through Washington Lobby groups) seek to control national governments.

In what direction are we going? What is the future of humanity? The current corona crisis is a sophisticated imperial project, which consists in Worldwide domination by a handful of multibillion dollar conglomerates. Is this World War III? Global capitalism is destroying national capitalism.

The unspoken intent of global capitalism is the destruction of the nation state and its institutions leading to global poverty on an unprecedented scale."

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 27 2020 9:57 utc | 365

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 2:32 utc | 351

Carrying a knife is not a crime. 2nd Amendment and all that.

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2020 11:45 utc | 366

I found this on reddit and it seems to encapsulate my thoughts on the Blake shooting.

Former sheriff’s deputy here: it’s important to remember that the role of police is not to act as judge and jury, it is to protect and to serve, otherwise we risk becoming a police state with law enforcement wielding far too much power over the general public. I believe everyone on all sides can agree with that not being the kind of nation we all want to live in.

What we are seeing here, and in too many other cases is an example of police failing to apply standard procedural de-escalation strategies; clearly failing to take adequate control of the situation; and in this incident failing at ensuring the safety of the children who were present. In bypassing de-escalation procedures and instead immediately leaping to what should be the absolute last course of action, this officer was acting as judge, jury and executioner. There was no immediate and impending direct threat to this officers life, he was not being physically attacked, therefore he still had other options available. A knife being present doesn’t justify this use of force. I’m hearing there were children inside the vehicle, too, and if that’s true then this officer clearly failed in his sworn responsibility to protect them.

The issue is not whether this man or any other is guilty, in our democracy that is for the courts to decide. What is at issue is the failure of police to utilize their training in de-escalating situations like this so that all people can be treated equally under the law, and their constitutional right to life respected and upheld. With all that we have witnessed it is clear that law enforcement has been failing to uphold its own oaths to protect and to serve all citizens equally under the constitution. It’s become a broken system corrupted by its own sense of elite, untouchable power that fails to hold their own accountable. Reform is long overdue.


Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 27 2020 12:39 utc | 368

@visak

You have walked into what many regard as their private club. You are trying to make sense of events. The patrons of the bar basically don’t want outsiders telling them anything. They would rather regurgitate ideology than take in new information. They are mostly very old and their brains don’t absorb anything new, it is all an addendum to what they learned decades ago.

I am sitting less than half a mile from Ebenezer AME, the Blake family church. I could tell the bar all sorts of things about the Blakes. They don’t want to know.This is not the place to do it.

Reality does make sense. The narrative does not.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 27 2020 12:56 utc | 369

@ Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 27 2020 12:56 utc | 369

You're a fan of the facts, here's a fact: in the rule of law regime (dictatorship of the Law), it doesn't matter what you think or know about the Blakes, as one can only be punished according to the Law.

Either way, this discussion doesn't matter from a historical point of view. Nobody besides his immediate family cares about Jacob Blake (the same way nobody would care if a cop died in service). What matters is the socioeconomic context, the historical context, the entire bucket and not only the drop that overflew it. Jacob Blake, here, is a symbol, not a thing in itself.

The historically relevant fact is that a segment of the American population considered this act as a political-ideological attack on their very existence, and that another segment of the American population considers this reaction a political-ideological attack on their very existence. This is a socio-historical process, which cannot be stopped by legal niceties. You can play Ulpian in this how long you want, but that won't erase the structural crisis of the American Empire that result in these tensions.

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2020 13:09 utc | 370

visak | Aug 27 2020 1:31 utc | 345

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but you seem to be referring to the question I posed to you yesterday, without actually addressing the question.

That could be interpreted as being purposely deceptive. My comment to you was not abusive, condemning, or hyperbolic. I simply asked that you provide some reference to where you had read the supposed information you posted here. If true, it would certainly figure prominently in understanding the actions of the police at that scene.

As I stated yesterday, this information, if true, would probably take most of the wind out of the protests that have resulted from this latest incident. And yet, there is no mention of this information anywhere but in your post.

Many, including myself, search through many sources, and I sometimes don't adequately note which site said what. But most of us are creatures of habit and pattern, and surely you could backtrack to find the source of those allegations? Especially since such "information" - if true - would be pivotal. Perhaps you could just check your browsing history our OS's so meticulously store for us (no it's not really for us, is it?)

The fact that after a day's time neither you nor anyone in the media for that matter has come forth with this information leads me to the conclusion that what you posted was purposeful disinformation.

Prove me wrong, state your source(s), and we can all move along. It won't bother me; I'm often wrong, and old enough now to not let it bother me too much.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Aug 27 2020 13:16 utc | 371

@vk

What a complete load of codswallop. The Blakes are a prominent family and a political family for a century. Just as news about Kennedys or Daleys or Rockefellers is news because of who they are, news about the Blakes is news because of who they are. Yes, a great many beyond the immediate family are involved and care. By focusing exclusively on the forest you are completely unable to identify a tree.

Reviewed the video for about the 20th time. Saw something easy to overlook. There is no muzzle flash.There is no smoke. Background is perfect for making those visible. We are presented a video and told what to believe and never look at what is in front of our eyes. And having seen nothing proceed to harangue each other.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 27 2020 13:29 utc | 372

oldhippie - I was trying to start a discussion with what I normally consider to be an intelligent group of like minded people. Instead I am met with constant accusations of lying, trolling, and being a cum guzzling cop lover. Who is doing the trolling here? It sure ain't me.

vinnie - If you don't understand my original response to your question, then I don't know what more I can do for you. Have a good day friend.

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 13:34 utc | 373

Don Bacon | Aug 27 2020 3:40 utc | 357

Another excellent read by someone who was there is A Bright Shining Lie - John Paul Vann and the Vietnam War by Neal Sheehan.

The opening chapters introduced me to the fact that Ho Chi Min petitioned the US government many times, beginning with FDR, for support in the struggle for Vietnamese independence and self-determination. What I have learned since is that Ho was in Paris during negotiation of the Versaille Treaty and began petitioning the powers-that-be at that early date for same. The human tragedy of the Viet Nam War (or, as the Vietnamese call it - the American War) should not have happened.

btw: a movie was made from Sheehan's book, and it was awful - completely without merit. Probably just an excuse to make another war movie for that audience.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Aug 27 2020 13:48 utc | 374

@ Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 27 2020 13:29 utc | 372

Ok. Now do this: tell it to the rioting masses. Go spread your gospel and save the USA.

Then come back and tell us how it went (if you come back alive).

--//--

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 13:34 utc | 373

Dude, I really can't understand you. What's your endgame?

First, you came with an amalgamation of local news, of which three new elements were included in relation to the one in the MSM:

1) the (failed) taser;

2) the physical altercation between Blake and at least one of the cops; and

3) the warrant.

Of these three elements, only #1 has some backing - and then, only through the official, "dude, trust me" version of the Wi-DoJ. As I mentioned earlier, the taser story had to be told, as the cops have to explain the shooting, so it may or may not be true.

You made a crazy interpolation on your first version, where the cops "discovered there was a warrant" on the fly. This version was busted by Wi-DoJ itself, and it was amazed more people insisted on it for a while.

Then, you degenerated to a moral discourse, where cops should be treated like gods if you don't want to get shot, because the world is so mean to cops etc etc.

Now, you're insisting on the knife as if you knew of its existence all along, when it's documented here, in this very forum, that you know of no knife. In fact, you extrapolated your version to infer that the cops thought there was a gun in Blake's car - again, a version the very Wi-DoJ busted.

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2020 13:50 utc | 375

vinnieoh, vk

You're trying to reason with a troll. That never works. He's not here to reason with you and explain himself. He's here to stir the pot and guide the conversation toward conclusions that are favorable to his client's interests.

He's proven himself to be a troll in many ways, including the things that confuse you about his engagement with moa.

It's painful to watch you guys wrestling with this turd.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 14:09 utc | 376

visak

YOUR WORDS: "I am sure everyone here realizes the person who was shot has a history of illegal gun possession? In fact he was mauled by a police dog while trying to reach into his car on another occasion when he was about to be arrested. Inside the car, behind the drivers seas was a pistol and a box of ammunition. I am sure in that situation he was reaching for his cigarettes and not the gun."

Now you are engaging in misdirection. That statement is what I was referring to. "I am sure everyone here realizes..." is too clever by half. No, "we do not all realize" this as it is only your assertion that this is true, and you have yet to offer any source for this statement.

Once again, I and many others would be quite willing to consider all factual information supporting your statement, but I'm beginning to believe such proof will not be forthcoming.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Aug 27 2020 14:13 utc | 377

oldhippie @Aug27 13:29 #372

We are presented a video

We are presented with two videos, actually.

I linked to the second video @Aug26 16:05 #280. It's taken by a different person and a different angle and matches what happens in the first video.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 14:13 utc | 378

vk- "Then, you degenerated to a moral discourse, where cops should be treated like gods if you don't want to get shot, because the world is so mean to cops etc etc."

You are an idiot. This is my last response to you period. Every time you have responded to me you assert that I have said things that I have not. Fuck off you immature moron.

Posted by: visak | Aug 27 2020 14:16 utc | 379

Da'ish will go as soon as the USA leaves, as soon as the USA base in SE Syria is liberated, etc etc.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 26 2020 22:28 utc | 333

You're misunderstanding the issues, uncle T. Da'ish is not actually particularly bothered about the US, difficult as you an American may find it to believe. In Iraq, they find their support among the Sunni villagers, and they're more exercised by the Shi'a government in Baghdad, than whatever the US does. Slaughtering the heretics is much more important than the foreign unbelievers. So no, they're not going to go.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 27 2020 14:35 utc | 380

Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 14:09 utc | 376

Don't mistake my measured engagement for naivete, or confusion. Of course I understood the agenda at the first posting. But, you often and vigorously dispute mis and dis information here, and that is all I was attempting to do. Except for that I would have just passed over it and stayed out of this discussion. I'm done with this whatever; he/she/it either can't or won't back up the claim. Screw it.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Aug 27 2020 14:39 utc | 381

Here's my best guess as to what happened:

  1. The police arrive and immediately want to arrest Blake. We don't yet know exactly why. Maybe there was a warrant out for Blake. Or maybe the police thought his actions fell under mandatory arrest. Or maybe they just didn't like his attitude.
  2. Blake resists arrest. Maybe because he thinks the arrest is unjustified. Maybe there's poor communication between Blake and the police. Or maybe because Blake insists on going to the car to explain what is happening to his kids. A reasonable request that the police deny because Blake might drive off (Blake could just give them his keys, though) or retrieve a weapon.
  3. Heated words lead to a tasing. As Blake is on the ground, the police try to cuff him but Blake breaks free, stands up and walks to his car.

Why did he go to the car? Was he going for the knife concealed in the car? Did he intend on confronting the police after grabbing the knife in the car? Doing so could be suicidal (with police already angry and prepared to shoot him). At best, brandishing a knife could result in further, and more serious, criminal charges.

I think it's likely that Blake was carrying the knife when he was stopped by police and he wanted to go to the car to conceal it. He didn't want the knife to be found on his person when he was arrested. Although there is no licensing requirement for knifes in Wisconsin, certain people - including people who have been convicted of or charged with disorderly conduct - are prohibited from carry a knife.

If Blake HAD a knife on his person, he didn't try to use it against the police. Nor did he (as far as we can tell from the video evidence) come to blows with the police.

He knew that he was definitely going to be arrested. It would be logical for him to try to minimize the charges against him by discarding the knife - especially if he knew that it was illegal for him to carry one.

<> <> <> <> <>

Wisconsin Knife Laws: Breaking down What is Legal & What is not

Generally speaking, the state of Wisconsin doesn’t restrict carrying or possessing knives either openly or in a concealed manner.

The statute that is captioned as ‘Carrying a Concealed Knife’, “applies to persons convicted of certain crimes, subject to a restraining order, or having a mental disability.”

Until and unless you are specifically banned from carrying a firearm for any particular reason, you are allowed to carry a knife without getting a permit for concealed carry. In addition, there can’t be any charges with disorderly conduct against you for carrying a knife.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Blake wasn't walking away from the arrest as the troll has suggested ("can people just decide not to be arrested"). And he wasn't being violent toward the police.

Seven shots into Blake's back was completely unwarranted.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 15:20 utc | 382

Visak

You strike me as being young, sincere, thoughtful, curious, intelligent. What you have received here is outright bullying. You came here in good faith and met a pack of bullies.

It’s the internet. This happens to be one of the least moderated and least censored locations on the internet. This means it attracts trolls. In all likelihood the trolls are government. The first person to suspect of trollery is the one who is quick with their own accusations of trollery. There are a lot of those here.

Couple of weeks back I had an exchange with a longtime poster who was approvingly quoting Hyrum Smith. And denied that he was a Mormon. Sure. Because lots of non-Mormons read Hyrum Smith. CIA recruits out of Mormon Church and always has. This does not prove that said poster is CIA. But the suspicion is reasonable. The pose of leftism is just that, a pose. It is the internet and it goes on and on.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 27 2020 15:28 utc | 383

"The Modern US War Machine Kills More Like A Python Than A Tiger"

Very good one by Caitlin today--- ties all this nastiness together.

WAR

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 15:59 utc | 384

And I might add that the US and accomplises are now applying more sanctions and threats on all of these countries without any
bother to justify them. Apparently the proof of why has already been given.

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 16:04 utc | 385

@ 380 Laguerre
Da'ish is not actually particularly bothered about the US, difficult as you an American may find it to believe. . .they find their support among the Sunni villagers

to expand upon that...
In fact ISIS was a US (Sunni) construct, mostly former Iraq military guys allowed to enter Iraq in order to (1) create instability, always a US goal (divide & conquer) and (2) modify Baghdad's pro-Shia (and pro-Iran) stance. Later ISIS was used by the US in Syria to further its aims there. . . .These US strategies will never change.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 27 2020 16:06 utc | 386

@ 384 arby
Very good one by Caitlin today--- ties all this nastiness together.

Johnstone's strangulation thesis doesn't hold up when one considers that the US has been sanctioning Iran for forty years yet Iran has been able to gain ascendancy in the Middle East. The Iran example thus calls into question its "python" strategy's efficacy against the much more powerful China and Russia especially as the US economy is crashing and its military/naval capacity is ineffective.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 27 2020 16:20 utc | 387

Well that is what I see as well. They seem to be shooting themselves in the foot all the time.
But it goes on and on. I put this down to pure arrogance, but it does appear that they are setting up to strangle all who will not comply.
Things like the South China sea. This is not to protect the freedom of the seas but preparation to block China's access to commodities and oil.
It rang a bell with me. IMO, it sort of ties a lot of what appears to be random nastiness together in a much larger plan.

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 16:31 utc | 388

@karlof1 #295
Coulda shoulda - just remember fusion. Always 10 years away...
On a more technical note: there are serious problems with quantum computing. In particular, the very nature of quantum means that random things happen regularly. Quantum computers thus require up to 25% overhead in order to ensure output isn't skewed by these quantum events (tunneling and others).

I've also noted before that even if a 1 million qubit computer was functional and all the error problems fixed, the bigger issue is how do you actually test programs written for it? The addressable error space is almost literally infinite.
And if you can't test it - then you can only run it on things for which you already know the answer.

Note these structural problems don't occur with quantum communications - which are basically morse code.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 27 2020 16:36 utc | 389

@ 388 arby
it does appear that they are setting up to strangle all who will not comply.. .Things like the South China sea

China controls the SCS - NYTimes

In congressional testimony before assuming his new post as head of the United States Indo-Pacific Command in May, Adm. Philip S. Davidson sounded a stark warning about Beijing’s power play in a sea through which roughly one-third of global maritime trade flows.
“In short, China is now capable of controlling the South China Sea in all scenarios short of war with the United States,” Admiral Davidson said, an assessment that caused some consternation in the Pentagon. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 27 2020 16:39 utc | 390

oldhippie @Aug27 15:28 #383

What you have received here is outright bullying. You came here in good faith and met a pack of bullies.

That's not what happened oldhippie.

  1. There was no 'good faith':
    He came here with an agenda - that was evident from the start.
  2. There was no bullying:
    Identifying that someone has an agenda - backed with reasoned arguments (public relations during the Trump coronation and similar episodes of troll activity) - is not "bullying". Nor are mild rebukes and requests for clarification.

The pose of leftism is just that, a pose.

But you can't see that the troll's concern about anarchy and civil war are just a 'pose' for drumming up support for the police?

I think that you're not paying attention or not thinking clearly about this. In particular, this makes no sense:

  • @Aug27 12:56 #369

    I could tell the bar all sorts of things about the Blakes. They don’t want to know.This is not the place to do it.

  • @Aug27 15:28 #383:

    This happens to be one of the least moderated and least censored locations on the internet.


Why do you coyly withhold info from us then defend someone that tries to mislead us? If "one of the least moderated and least censored locations on the internet" is not a place for a conversation about police brutality and government psyops, then what is?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 16:42 utc | 391

"Creeping Thucydides Trap: Esper Vows "Won't Cede An Inch" In South China Sea After 4 PLA 'Warning' Missiles"

Zero hedge

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 16:43 utc | 392

Seems to me this "Full Spectrum Dominance" is a long range plan and it is in motion.
They are in for all the marbles.

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 16:45 utc | 393

The arguments here are old and tired.
Here are the facts:
1) Blake was armed with a knife. A knife is considered a lethal weapon and policeman are 100% authorized to shoot to defend themselves if they believe they are threatened with a lethal weapon.
2) Blake resisted arrest. He fought and freed himself from 2 police officers and resisted a taser. He was going to his car - and nobody can possibly know what he was going to do. This includes pulling a gun - he already showed he has no problem fighting off cops.
3) The videos don't include sound that I've seen. Did the policeman demand that he stop? That he show his hands? That he drop the knife? etc? If they did, then that is considered fair warning.
4) Yes, in theory you can always de-escalate. Tasering didn't work here though, and de-escalation always sounds better when it isn't your own life at risk.
5) What is the Kenosha police policy given the above known facts? It is amusing that very few people actually address this issue (there has been some from William Gruff). Legally, police officers are both trained and required to follow procedure - and arguing nonsense without even knowing what that is, is ridiculous.

Ultimately, this is 100% something which a trial and a jury should decide.

All those people who have drawn conclusions from video or whatever - you are all ignoring the reality of our judicial system.

We do not try people on social media.

We do not try people in the court of public opinion.

Doing so means even the idea of America is dead.

If the police officers did wrong, let the evidence show this and a jury of their peers decide and hand down a verdict.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 27 2020 16:48 utc | 394

To me it makes no sense that the MIC, or GE, or MSFT, or AMZN, or any of the so called deep state are interested in this sanctioning and threatening.
It makes more sense to me that this PNAC with its "Full Spectrum Dominance"is a policy and is being enacted by the government.

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2020 16:54 utc | 395

Don, Arby

I like the simplicity of Caitlin's "like a python, not a tiger."

Also like this part:

This is important to be aware of, because it changes what it means to be anti-war. We don’t have to just oppose direct hot war conflicts like the one we were afraid earlier this year might erupt between the US and Iran (which could still happen); we also need to aggressively fight the new strangulation-style warfare that is being increasingly favored by the US-centralized empire.

Note: I've often made the case that to fight against war, people need to fight for democracy. That's probably what sums up my participation here and on my blog.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 16:55 utc | 396

Illegally occupying scum US troops supporting ISIS, stealing resources, murdering raping and torturing civilians receive a well deserved bitch slap from professional Russian forces.

https://southfront.org/u-s-soldiers-injured-in-standoff-with-russian-forces-in-northeastern-syria-videos/

Fuck the US Empire scum.

Posted by: CitizenX | Aug 27 2020 17:18 utc | 397

c1ue @Aug27 16:48 #394

1) Blake was armed with a knife. A knife is considered a lethal weapon and policeman are 100% authorized to shoot to defend themselves if they believe they are threatened with a lethal weapon.

  • We don't know if Blake was "armed with a knife" as in actually had it on his person or in his arm. If he WAS "armed with a knife" the video evidence shows no attempted use of the knife, either to threaten or to harm.
  • Wisconsin law allows people to carry a knife without a license.
  • Video evidence does not support the assertion that police were "threatened with a lethal weapon".
  • And how is seven shots to the back at point blank considered "shooting to defend themselves"?

2) Blake resisted arrest. He fought and freed himself from 2 police officers and resisted a taser. He was going to his car - and nobody can possibly know what he was going to do. This includes pulling a gun - he already showed he has no problem fighting off cops.
  • Although he appears to have resisted arrest, the video evidence doesn't support a fight with police officers. Blake and the officers never came to blows.

  • Blake's "going to his car" doesn't logically mean that officers should expect the worst. No one likes being arrested (we still don't know WHY he was being arrested) but a guy with kids - which were at the scene - doesn't really want to get into a shooting match with police.

3) The videos don't include sound that I've seen. Did the policeman demand that he stop? That he show his hands? That he drop the knife? etc? If they did, then that is considered fair warning.
Ignoring a "fair warning" doesn't mean that an execution is warranted.

4) Yes, in theory you can always de-escalate. Tasering didn't work here though, and de-escalation always sounds better when it isn't your own life at risk.
  • "In theory?" What part of protect and serve do you fail to understand?
  • Video evidence does not indicate that the life of the police officers was ever in jeopardy.

5) What is the Kenosha police policy given the above known facts? It is amusing that very few people actually address this issue (there has been some from William Gruff). Legally, police officers are both trained and required to follow procedure - and arguing nonsense without even knowing what that is, is ridiculous.
What should be our expectation of police conduct given the above facts - as corrected. People are horrified because the officer that fired into Blakes back acted in a way that is horrifying. We don't want to live in a society where a policeman can execute a man like that.

We do not try people on social media.
This is not a trial. No rational person would think it is. It is a discussion about policing and society. Are we supposed to ignore this egregious shooting and social context in which it occurred?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2020 17:37 utc | 398

"Where religion goes wrong is when it takes on the trappings of a corrupted culture and counts as success its adherence to those wrongful mores. What you say in this post is a LIE."
Posted by: juliania | Aug 27 2020 2:51 utc | 352
...

Nothing more pathetic and laughable than a hypocritical Zealous spouting Christian calling anyone a liar !

Do Christians even have mirrors of self reflection? Raping Priests, sexist organized religious crime? God Bless the Christian Nation of America- may it continue to abuse, rape, torture, lie, cheat, steal, murder and claim moral superiority as you do.

Please- how about a few more lovely quotes from your murderous Bible.

Posted by: CitizenX | Aug 27 2020 17:54 utc | 399

CitizenX @ 399,

You have misrepresented what I said at 352,by linking a previously posted sentence to my final sentence at 352, as if the two were part of the same paragraph. That is a deceptive tactic that I haven't seen anyone else here employ. I will not be viewing your posts in future.

My final sentence is from my post at 352. The earlier sentence is from my post @ 317 responding to Peter AU1 @ 236. To everyone else who reads your post, please be aware what is attributed to me therein is incorrect.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 27 2020 19:48 utc | 400

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