Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 23, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-67

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

> A necessary condition for a person like Donald Trump ever winning a major election is now back in play: No one thinks he is going to win. <
> The Press Secretary's statement quotes Trump distancing himself from We Build the Wall on July 12 this year. That's a year and a half after the private border-wall campaign launched—and the week of ex-U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman's unexpected and unexplained ouster. <
> Navalny said himself that he suffered from diabetes in 2019, giving some credence to this explanation. <

Other issues:

Belarus color revolution / coup attempt:



Big bang:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 23, 2020 at 13:05 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

A leading US god botherer that backed Trump tripped over his dick.

"Giancarlo Granda said he was 20 when he met Jerry and Becki Falwell while working as a pool attendant at the Fontainebleau Miami Beach hotel in March 2012. Starting that month and continuing into 2018, Granda told Reuters that the relationship involved him having sex with Becki Falwell while Jerry Falwell looked on.

Granda shared with Reuters texts and other material that he said supported his account of a sexual relationship with the couple."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 25 2020 19:24 utc | 201

Karlofi @ 199.

" consists of the fed issuing ever more debt (T-Bills) then buying it by issuing ever more debt (money)--"

I am by no means an expert on this but I think it is the Treasury that issues the debt and the fed buys the debt with conjured up money.
Of course the collateral for the newly created money is the ability of the Treasury to tax the populace.

Posted by: arby | Aug 25 2020 19:35 utc | 202

I am wondering why, as it seems to be a fact that the US is run by big business, that business leaders are not screaming their heads off about this blocking of Chinese and other companies doing business with American companies.

EG; I read that Huawei purchases billions of dollars worth of equipment from Qualcom, and I just read that Ant Group,a Chinese company plans to go public with an IPO that may be the largest in history. They have decided to do it in Hong Kong and Shanghai and leave the US out.

Posted by: arby | Aug 25 2020 20:01 utc | 203

Ha ha, Perfect--

"Glenn Greenwald
Bolsonaristas hilariously launched 2 separate campaigns to click "thumbs down" on our YouTube report on the Bolsonaro family's ties to paramilitary gangs, not realizing that YouTube counts that as positive engagement and helps promote the video, pushing it over 1 million views:"

Posted by: arby | Aug 25 2020 20:06 utc | 204

arby @202--

Yes, sorry, the Treasury holds the auction for T-Bills--debt--then the Fed buys up what isn't sold using more debt as "payment". Here's the current rate data for 4, 8, 13, 26 & 52 week T-Bills. Would you use your money to earn such miniscule returns?

Your 203 question doesn't define what constitutes "big business" nowadays within the Outlaw US Empire. Given the economy's been Financialized, big business would refer to Wall Street and the Neoliberal Parasites entrenched there. Here's a description of how that works and a clue as to its roots:

"About a hundred years ago in America, John Bates Clark and other pro-financial ideologues argued that finance is not external to the economy. It’s not extraneous, it’s part of the economy, just like landlords are part of the economy. This means that if the financial sector takes more revenue out of the economy as interest, fees or monopoly charges, it’s because finance is an inherent and vital part of the economy, adding to GDP, not merely siphoning it off from producers to pay Wall Street and the One Percent. So our economic policy protects finance as if it helps us grow, not siphons off our growth." [My Emphasis]

And since they get bailed out and have all the free money routed to them, why would they be upset in any manner? Financial Capitalism has come very close to destroying Industrial Capitalism within the Outlaw US Empire, with what industry remaining being well subsidized by the federal government--primarily Big Oil and the Military Industrial Complex which includes the High Tech Sector. All the rest of the economy is what's called a Service Economy patronized by Consumers. The COVID has effectively closed that portion of the economy thus hurting the vast majority who rely upon it. And there's lots of complaining going on but few are listening--particularly the Deplorables supposed rescuers, Trump and the GOP.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2020 20:56 utc | 205

krypton | Aug 25 2020 2:03 utc | 158 (are us cops allowed...)

Generally, yes. There are some limits though, the ruling class is generally safe. Essentially the less money and status and education, according to the estimate of the cop, decides what he may do.

At cop school locker room it's ordinary that some of the boys speak eagerly of how the look forward to killing somebody. (I have that from two sources known to me personally)

I have listened to the cop o tronic scanner as a cop murdered a man.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 25 2020 21:15 utc | 206

see seymour hersch "reporter" - Brother Hersch describes how it goes with shooting a man... You can hear him as the flogs his book on YT.

Understand basic gun safety requires that weapons be carried with no round in the chamber. All US cops carry automatics with one up the spout. Thus, the reality that they expect deadly accidents, and thinks that's fine. Says their attitude. Kinna nazi, some might think.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 25 2020 21:21 utc | 207

karlof1 @ 145 and beyond:

"I'd prefer the conflict occur over the vast desolate synclines and anticlines that stretch across the southern tier of Wyoming, pierced by Interstate 80. My aim is to try and keep possession of what I own and protect it during the coming convulsion..."

Thanks for responding to my tongue-in-cheek flight of fancy (I was thinking they could fight over that big black box that stores everything we ever said or did this century when I suggested "the plains of southern Utah" - I actually think there aren't plains there, just a lot of impressive red sandstone cliffs with names like Zion and Moab and such. Lovely to wander through.

Psychohistorian @ 167 got to the heart of it, though:

"...Crooke sees a monetary revolution that is all about digitizing and globalizing money but not a whit about making it a public utility."

That's excellent, psychohistorian -- I should have said that! But, karlof1, I will take your point, emphasized so kindly @ 193, and gp next to the two links you mentioned, if only to try to keep up with your educational offerings, for which we all thank you.

I do have a bit more to say to my fellow kiwi debsisdead with regard to his historic analysis of Christianity, plus also Willam Gruff on religious art, howsomever first up, those links will take me through the heat of the day, and for that again, many thanks!

Oh and james - I did enjoy 'Smiley's people', thank you. Did you see that Alec Guinness's son played a minor part in the series (I assume his son)? He was the fellow who offered to help Smiley when he was hunting for clues at the murder site. Showed up in the credits.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 25 2020 22:20 utc | 208

All day I've been looking for a place where they were discussing the shooting in Kenosha, WI. All I could find was ZH, and you cant really call that a discussion, the usual racist rants and other stupid nonsense.

My philosophy in life is avoid the cops at all cost, they are not your friend. Don't ever call the cops, deal with your own problems. If you find yourself in a situation where the cops are involved, then your only option is to cooperate with them and let it get sorted out in court. That being said, I dont like cops, but I dont think society can function without them.

I am troubled by what is happening in Kenosha, and also another incident in Tennessee (I think) last week. In both instances I think the cops were justified in using force, but the result of that force was mass rioting and destruction.

In Kenosha, this man was involved in a physical altercation with police, he then decides to go to his vehicle for one of two reasons. 1- to get a weapon, or 2- to just drive away. Neither of those two is an acceptable option.

The cops totally fucked up that situation, there were four of them, they should have been able to subdue one person without shooting them. However, once the situation got to the point that he was reaching into/trying to enter his car, I dont see where they had a any option other than shooting him. I want to be clear, the situation should not have gotten to that point, that it did represents the poor training and lack of professionalism of the police.

But once it got to that point, what are the options? Wait until he gets a weapon from the car and starts shooting or let him get into his car and leave or attempt to run people down with it? You don't get into a physical confrontation with police and just leave when you feel like it.

I don't feel this was a situation of police brutality, ineptness and incompetence certainly, but not brutality.

The situation I mentioned above in (I think) Tennessee involved a man with a knife who refused to drop it, and lunged at officers, who then shot him.

The result of both of these instances was rioting, looting, and destruction, with advocates claiming that this is another instance of police brutality.

Are we seeing the pendulum swing the too far other way? Are we at a point where legitimate police enforcement is going to lead to more of the unrest we have seen lately?

How do we resolve this situation? We can't just get rid of cops. We can't just let people commit crimes and not be held accountable. Is this fixable? Is the US fixable?

Another log on the fire under this pressure cooker we call the US. And all indications are this puppy is gonna blow any moment.

Posted by: visak | Aug 25 2020 22:24 utc | 209

Today's Keiser Report focused on the future with the discussion focusing on Central Banks (CBs) and the possibility the Too Big to Fail banks will be allowed to fail as CBs funnel "money" directly to the public bypassing the banking system as we know it. Money is in quotes since it'll possibly/likely be in the form of a digital currency that's not as private or flexible as fiat currency. Unasked: Does this mean the end of Neoliberalism since the Parasites will be excluded from the digital currency flow? And that's what I have after watching: More questions than answers.

After watching, I suggest researching, which is what I did. I did a search at Dr. Hudson's website for digital currency and just got one true hit, which was worth rereading--"Democratizing Money", but didn't help all that much. Hudson relates the modern world fact that many transactions are electronic and digital in that sense, but the basis for the commerce isn't a digital currency.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2020 22:48 utc | 210

@ visak 209
How do we resolve this [Kenosha-like] situation?

We don't. Police have general immunity to do whatever they feel like so long as it doesn't violate "constitutional rights" according to the Supreme Court. Since there are no rights conferred by the Constitution, only several rights which can't be legislated against, then the police can do whatever pleases them, like shooting a black man repeatedly in the back. . . .more here . .Welcome to Outlaw Country, as karlof says. Outlaws with badges! . .Avoid them if possible.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 25 2020 23:06 utc | 211

Well, karlof1, just listened to the first one, and that's a good comparison between the 20's last century and what is happening now. Got a bit confusing to me (not being an economist) as to how it works out between inflationary and deflationary, except that we might have a crunch coming as to the negative aspect of it all but catastrophe seems in the making.

I'm posting before I look at the second one as I have a question. They all seemed to view nationalizing the banks as a negative, even as it seems inevitable it happen in all countries. I am remembering early Bill Black articles at which were already saying the banks should be nationalized, closed and somehow set to rights as they did during the Keating Five scandal. So, that's confusing as it seems a positive for that to happen, not a negative. It was pointed out earlier that the Fed isn't the federal government but banks themselves, so hard to see they would be involved as was being claimed here.

Sorry, lots above my paygrade, but onward! I do have some gold, by the way, only it's on the icons I paint,

the halos ;)

Posted by: juliania | Aug 25 2020 23:16 utc | 212

visak @209--

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much information about the events prior to the videography of the shooting. Ah, here's something:

"Kenosha Police officers responded to a domestic dispute over a set of car keys. When officers arrived, they discovered that Blake had a warrant for his arrest."

Not much else. The link to the police department provides zero info.

As I've written on several occasions, the key to halting the problem--and it affects everyone--is ending the judicial doctrine of "Qualified Immunity," which you can read about here. Then when you're done, share that article with your circle so they can become informed as such a doctrine makes the entire Bill of Rights worthless.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2020 23:16 utc | 213

Thanks for replying Don,"then the police can do whatever pleases them, like shooting a black man repeatedly in the back. . . ."

It sounds to me like you think the cops in Kenosha just walked up to a citizen on the street and shot him in the back multiple times in cold blood for no reason and with no justification.

I was really hoping to have an intelligent discussion about this. Care to address anything in my original post?

Posted by: visak | Aug 25 2020 23:19 utc | 214

visak @Aug25 22:24 #209

All I could find was ZH ...

Go back to ZH, troll.

I dont see where they had a any option other than shooting him.

They had plenty of options.

I don't feel this was a situation of police brutality ...

Because you're a dumbass troll.

Are we at a point where legitimate police enforcement is going to lead to more of the unrest we have seen lately?

We are at the point that we can recognize trolls like you.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 25 2020 23:27 utc | 215

juliania @212--

Thanks for your replies! Nationalizing the banking system can do one of two things: it can make them 100% public or 100% private in that they become a subsidiary of the Treasury, which of course is theoretically publicly owned, but the government's captured by the Financial Parasites....

Our Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned but supposedly controlled by the Executive with Congressional oversight, which is why you hear terms like quasi-public and such. As for what sort of outcome, de- or inflationary, no one really knows, although there're plenty of guesses. Macleod did a good job of stating the problems and is certain we're in for a huge crisis at some future point, which I agree. What then occurs depends much on which party has POTUS and how much the rest of the world can insulate itself against the crisis. The concept of the Fourth Turning comes from this book, which I've yet to read.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2020 23:34 utc | 216

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 25 2020 22:24 utc | 209

The cops stopped the guy getting in his car... with seven bullets to his back almost point blank.

Hard to believe in a self defense hypothesis in such scenario. Seven bullets point blank to an unarmed man in his back is execution, for all intents and purposes. Being a wife beater doesn't make you a serial killer or a mass shooter, so I don't think it is realistic to expect an AK47 getting out of his car. Gross incompetence at best (in which case, the sancticity of the cop is broken).

Posted by: vk | Aug 25 2020 23:44 utc | 217

@ 213 karlof

[qualified immunity] makes the entire Bill of Rights worthless

"BOR" is a misnomer, implying that a few rights (but not others) were conferred in the Constitution by the Founding Fathers. The Constitution is a document which describes the government and incidentally lists some rights that can't be legislated against as I said in my 211 above. It doesn't confer the basic human rights we were born with, as the government would have us think.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 25 2020 23:55 utc | 218

@ juliania | Aug 25 2020 22:20 utc | 208... thanks! i didn't notice that! my wife loved the show and especially alec guinness..

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2020 0:26 utc | 219

In answer to Debsisdead @ 178, the rant is a good one, but as james has pointed out we were not looking at the history of mankind's worst impulses, a sorry one indeed, but perhaps the following extract from my link to the foreword by Lossky will better explain what we and Kay Fabe were looking towards:

... A Christian ... must have a full awareness of his faith: he is always responsible for the Church. Hence the restless and sometimes agitated character of the ecclesiastical life of Byzantium, of Russia and of other countries in the Orthodox world... From this, too, comes the unconquerable energy which enables Orthodoxy to go through all trials, all cataclysms and upheavals, adapting itself continually to the new historical reality and showing itself stronger than outward circumstances...

The Orthodox Church, though commonly referred to as Eastern... is not limited by any particular type of culture, by the legacy of any one civilization (Hellenistic or otherwise), or by strictly eastern cultural forms. Moreover, eastern can mean so many things: from the cultural point of view the East is less homogeneous than the West. What have Hellenism and Russian culture in common, notwithstanding the Byzantine origins of Christianity in Russia? Orthodoxy has been the leaven in too many different cultures to be itself considered a cultural form of eastern Christianity. The forms are different: the faith is one. The Orthodox Church has never confronted national cultures with another which could be regarded as specifically Orthodox. It is for this reason that her missionary work has been able to expand so prodigiously: witness the conversion of Russia to Christianity during the tenth and eleventh centuries, and, at a later date, the preaching of the Gospel across the whole of Asia. Towards the end of the eighteenth century Orthodox missions reached the Aleutian Islands and Alaska, passed thence to North America, creating new dioceses of the Russian Church beyond the confines of Russia, spreading to China and Japan. The anthropological and cultural variations which one encounters from Greece to the remotest parts of Asia, and from Egypt to the Arctic, do not destroy the homogeneous character of this kinship of spirituality...

As you see here, this link was meant simply to explain and not to do anything more than that, what a large body of humans on the world stage nowadays find to be an important aspect of their lives. It is not superstition, and it is not motivated by any of the harsh animosities we may find necessary to describe when it comes to how powerful entities have corrupted good practices down through history. There is a moral integrity to Christianity that even nonbelievers can profit from. It was important to explain this, in order for us to understand better Russian cultural behavior -- much as Grieved and others have explained what motivates China. Those two countries want to bring the world into peaceful harmony while preserving national integrity; I do believe that.

I apologize if I have offended anyone; that was not my intention. I've made some abbreviations to the text so as not to offend nonbelievers.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 26 2020 0:40 utc | 220

Don Bacon @218--

Yes, and some of the verbiage wasn't as complete as it ought. Most people at the time knew what their rights were as English subjects even if illiterate thanks to the handing down of such vital information by parents. But much of that practice is now history and too many are illiterate/ignorant of the important things that control their lives, and there's a fury that comes with knowing you don't know because you were deliberately untaught. The Doublethink and Doublespeak have become too much for many, and when combined with the great uncertainties of the Gig Economy has greatly expanded/inflamed alienation. What's happening now has nothing to do with the magical thinking present in The Fourth Turning. Rather, it's the usual decay and decadence of an Empire in the last stages of its being. My question: Where's the USA version of Mao and his cadre?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 0:52 utc | 221

@ juliania | Aug 26 2020 0:40 utc | 220... don't worry about offending anyone juliania... you think debs has a problem offending someone? lol... others here are happy to offend at the drop of a hat! only we know our intentions while others are only capable of guessing!

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2020 1:02 utc | 222

Jackass - thanks for the input.

Karlof and others - I am aware of qualified immunity, and it needs to go away, along with police unions.

Are you guys of the opinion that we dont need cops period? Are citizens who get into physical confrontations with cops allowed to walk to their car and go home when they feel they have had enough?

I am sure everyone here realizes the person who was shot has a history of illegal gun possession? In fact he was mauled by a police dog while trying to reach into his car on another occasion when he was about to be arrested. Inside the car, behind the drivers seas was a pistol and a box of ammunition. I am sure in that situation he was reaching for his cigarettes and not the gun.

What I see is one side that says every time a cop uses violence it is brutality, and never justified. The other side says police violence is always justified. The reality is that the often police violence is not justified, but sometimes it is. We need less indiscriminate violence on the part of the cops, we also need to distinguish between the two.

How do we as a society reconcile these two opposing positions? I am of the opinion that if we don't reconcile these differences the result can only be, more violence and possibly civil war.

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 1:06 utc | 223

New Canadian Opposition Leader Erin O'Toole Promises to be the best Canadian Prime Minister Amerikka ever Had

"The most important job of the Canadian prime minister is to make sure we have strong relations with the US... A prime minister of Canada should unite with the Five Eyes to correct the international order, rid the bad actors and stop the gaming of the United Nations agencies. The US and Canada must lead these efforts,' he said..."

Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 26 2020 1:09 utc | 224

I haven't seen the story below posted in the MSM

BEIJING, Aug. 25 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese military spokesperson on Tuesday voiced firm opposition to the trespassing of U.S. reconnaissance aircraft into a no-fly zone, urging the U.S. side to immediately stop such provocations and take concrete steps to safeguard regional peace and stability.

Wu Qian, a spokesperson for the Ministry of National Defense, made the comment in response to the flight of the U-2 high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft into an airspace used for live-fire exercises by the Northern Theater Command of the People's Liberation Army.

The trespass severely affected China's normal exercises and training activities, and violated the rules of behavior for air and maritime safety between China and the United States, as well as relevant international practices, said Wu.

The U.S. action could easily have resulted in misjudgments and even accidents, said Wu, adding that the move was an obvious provocation.

China firmly opposes such provocative actions and has lodged solemn representations with the U.S. side, he said.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2020 1:23 utc | 225


I dont think you know much information about the case, at least your comment indicates that you probably dont.

When the police arrived and called his name in it came back with a outstanding warrant for his arrest. I am certain dispatch also informed the cops on the scene of what happened last time they tried to arrest him. Last time he tried to retrieve a pistol from his car and was only stopped by a police dog from actually reaching it.

Does this information change anyone's opinion about what happened in Kenosha?

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 1:24 utc | 226

William Gruff @ 184:

It is true that the Abrahamic religions are at their core irrational. Unlike science, they have no mechanism to correct themselves either. On the contrary, those religious faiths reward irrationality. Even worse, irrational beliefs that cannot be falsified in any way are required prerequisites for membership in those cults. This craziness is embraced and redefined as a moral good among the adherents.

It's hard to defend against such a statement. 'At their core irrational'. What does that mean? Irrationality as I understand the concept relates, as you say to craziness, and while fanaticism might come close to being that, in a refusal to act 'rationally', what is it about 'the Abrahamic religions' that brings you to such a black and white conclusion? And it isn't a case of either/or. Science can be beautiful also.

I'm sorry, socialist art leaves me cold. But I wouldn't call it irrational. Whereas any religious art of any faith, Abrahamic or not, I find extremely beautiful. And I suspect, it has been produced out of the faith of the artist and not principally for monetary gain or to feed the family but for the adornment of the faith, as an accompaniment to the beliefs therein. Which often grow stronger under persecution and under stressful conditions of living. Maybe not 'successful' art of today, but that too I find rather lacking in beauty.

But, to each his own.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 26 2020 1:38 utc | 227

Below is a link to a Xinhuanet posting quoting a Central Bank oficial that has an intriguing take away quote

China to advance orderly opening-up of financial sector: official

The take away quote
Meanwhile, China will pay more attention to the prevention and control of financial risk, and take a more active role in global economic governance.

"....and take a more active role in global economic governance."

Hmmmm....I can't wait

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2020 1:38 utc | 228

visak @Aug26 1:06 #223

Are you guys of the opinion that we dont need cops period? Are citizens who get into physical confrontations with cops allowed to walk to their car and go home when they feel they have had enough?

Trolls like visak are trying to smooth over the embarrassment of yet another police execution of a black man during Trump's coronation week.

How much are they paying you visak?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 1:39 utc | 229

visak @Aug26 1:06 #223

Are you guys of the opinion that we dont need cops period? Are citizens who get into physical confrontations with cops allowed to walk to their car and go home when they feel they have had enough?

Trolls like visak are trying to smooth over the embarrassment of yet another police execution of a black man during Trump's coronation week.

How much are they paying you visak?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 1:39 utc | 230

I was going to say, Mr. Gruff, sorry to do so, that you might consider that the 'truths' that are at the core of the Abrahamic faiths are similar to, say, the 'truths' under which a scientific formula exists. In the abstract, I would say science has its own irrationalities when it comes right down to it. Euclid had to have postulates and axioms, and so does any science really. If we make such and such a definition, such and such follows...

Pascal was a mathematician, and he saw this similarity between faith and science, proposing his wager. It rather diminishes, to my mind, the richness of faith, but it certainly isn't irrational.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 26 2020 1:43 utc | 231

It's simply a matter of whether or not, on another planet,very small, a sheep has eaten a rose...

Posted by: juliania | Aug 26 2020 1:46 utc | 232

Below is another Xinhuanet posting in total that says two things to me.

1. China continues to stand up for Palestine

2. The dark and ugly truth of Western "civilization" is behind why both parties in the US find other reasons to malign China, but not support of Palestine.

The posting
UNITED NATIONS, Aug. 25 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese envoy on Tuesday called for the peaceful settlement of the Palestine issue on the basis of a two-state solution and for efforts to promote peace through development.

The international community should firmly promote a peaceful settlement based on the two-state solution. Independent statehood is the inalienable national right of the Palestinian people that cannot be compromised or bargained away, said Zhang Jun, China's permanent representative to the United Nations.

He expressed the hope that relevant parties will take concrete action to advance the political process, and pave the way for the early resumption of peace talks between Palestinians and Israelis on an equal footing.

Relevant UN resolutions, the "land-for-peace" principle and the two-state solution set out the overall direction of a final settlement. They are important parameters in the Middle East peace process, and must be observed and reaffirmed, he told a Security Council meeting.

Zhang called on relevant parties to exercise maximum restraint and refrain from any hostile actions that may further aggravate the fragile security situation in Gaza. And the UN secretary-general's call for a global cease-fire should be heeded and truly followed.

The increased demolitions of Palestinian-owned structures in the West Bank are a matter of concern. Concrete efforts must be made to implement Security Council Resolution 2334, including ceasing all settlement activities, stopping demolitions, and preventing violence against civilians, he said.

The international community should take a holistic approach and promote peace through development, said Zhang. China commends the UN agencies including the World Health Organization and the UN agency for Palestine refugees for lending a helping hand, and calls for intensified international efforts to alleviate Palestine's economic and humanitarian difficulties.

It is also imperative to end the blockade on the Gaza Strip and allow timely delivery of humanitarian assistance and services to people in need, he said.

China firmly supports Palestine's just demands and all the efforts that are conducive to the settlement of the Palestine question. China stands with Palestine in its bid to establish an independent state that enjoys full sovereignty on the basis of the 1967 borders and with East Jerusalem as its capital, he said.

China will continue to provide support and assistance to the Palestinian people, including in the fight against COVID-19. China is also committed to working closely with the international community in the pursuit of a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East, he said.

When do all of humanity's deamons come out of the closet?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2020 1:47 utc | 233

I'm not sure about your second link, karlof1, though I liked 'being the cleanest shirt amidst dirty ones' as a description of currency choices. Generally scary stuff though, and I agree with the indictment of Fed Chairmen Mr. Lepard gave at the end, not sure of his conclusion though about term limits (?) and 'assets are still there'. Not for us they aren't, unless you count the bomb makers. But I do like that he doesn't see the link between depression and war - I never did. Certainly there can be crazed despots - I know our pres candidates are crummy but despots? We have a lot of Ponzi schemers but that's a horse of a different color. Might be able to fix that, if we stay on the non-belligerent track.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 26 2020 1:56 utc | 234

Trump Reportedly Considers Accusing China of "Genocide" Over Treatment of Uighurs

ZeroHedge reported headlines. To make this stick, branding China a genocide it would need UN passed motion in UNSC, but Russia Federation and Chine both permanent members have veto vote it will never pass.

Looking back, one should never forget Vietnam more than 60,000 young Americans died for Lyndon B. Johnson's war for freedom and democracy. Beside more than two millions Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians and Australians, Brit (soldiers) died in that stupid war. More are still dying from the deforestation. Orange Angel and un detonated bombs buried deep in the jungle and rice paddy fields. Shouldn't the American be branded as genocide? We have not taken into accounts for America other genocides after the Vietnam war in, Afghan, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Yemen and other countless wars...

Posted by: JC | Aug 26 2020 2:27 utc | 235

juliania 220 "There is a moral integrity to Christianity that even nonbelievers can profit from. It was important to explain this, in order for us to understand better Russian cultural behavior -- much as Grieved and others have explained what motivates China."

Could this be as much due to culture as religion? Religion does also influence culture, but take the ancient Persian empire which more or less brought peace to many often warring groups, which lived according to their own culture within the empire. Current Iran, the only place in the middle east outside Israel with a Jewish community, China somewhat similar to the ancient Persian empire, and also similar the Russian empire and the current Russian federation.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 26 2020 2:47 utc | 236

Melania wars an olive green military costume against a backdrop of US flags configured into KKK hats.

Posted by: Ansurdio | Aug 26 2020 3:07 utc | 237

Peter AU1 #201

Talk about tripping over you dick...

From Useful Idiots - isn't that terrible: A laugh for many barflies

Do not miss this idiocy.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 26 2020 5:16 utc | 238

more murderous cops, day after day of this crap, and people pretend that they don't know why people are protesting.
shoot an unarmed guy in the back 7 times. he hasn't died yet, miraculously.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 26 2020 5:54 utc | 239

i see this has already been posted, an utter outrage, and per usual some bootlicker is trying to justify it. you see the same kind of justifications for israeli snipers shooting kids playing on a beach.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 26 2020 5:57 utc | 240

all the people who have come to love big brother in the US are absolutely incapable of seeing how wrong it is for a cop to put 7 rounds into a man getting into his car.

the bootlickers will tell you the cop had every right to shoot because the other man did not do what he told him to do.

what a sad sad world we live in

Posted by: dan of steele | Aug 26 2020 7:04 utc | 241

I understand why the cop shot him. He ignored instructions to stop and for all the cop knew he was going to the car for a weapon that could hurt him and others. I do think shooting to kill was overboard. Shoot below the waist to disable.

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Aug 26 2020 7:52 utc | 242

JC #235

Shouldn't the American be branded as genocide? We have not taken into accounts for America other genocides after the Vietnam war in, Afghan, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Yemen and other countless wars...

YES - Genocidal maniacs who are turning their own country into a shithole country. Just as the Palestine Occupier has done.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 26 2020 7:56 utc | 243

Kay Fabe, I think the cop is very likely to hurt people, has proven to do so, and it is best to remove him and his chain of command. And anyone who uses the same military combat-like logic against civilians.

Posted by: tuyzentfloot | Aug 26 2020 8:39 utc | 244

Kay Fabe

you're one of dan of steele's bootlickers. You believe yankistan should operate under the law that anyone disobeying a police order is to be shot. A sick mind. Yankistan craps on about dictators and police brutality in tareget states yet you think anyone disobeying a police order should be shot. Yankistan cops - judge jury and executioner. I guess that's called multiple skills.

In civilized countries, an unarmed person disobeying a police order will be physically restrained. If the person cannot be restrained, but are trying to get away - even then they are not shot. Siege type situations, many are talked out of it. Civilized countries only shoot a suspect if suspect has weapons and is threatening rather than trying to get away.

yankistan is very much shoot first ask questions later, sort of like the Australian woman who called yank heros because she thought there was a prowler or something so the yankistan heros come around and shot her. I guess she didn't have to worry about prowlers after that.

You stink of yankistan Kay.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 26 2020 8:42 utc | 245

Peter AU1 #245

In civilized countries, an unarmed person disobeying a police order will be physically restrained. If the person cannot be restrained, but are trying to get away - even then they are not shot. Siege type situations, many are talked out of it. Civilized countries only shoot a suspect if suspect has weapons and is threatening rather than trying to get away.

YES and even then they would only aim for a single shot in a leg but never an abdomen or head shot.

The USA has turned itself into a dysfunctional copy of Saudi Arabia or perhaps the mirror of the Ceausesku governed Romania or more likely the Pinochet governed Chile.

Beware USA - you have allowed mission creep to the extent that you now employ ex military officers in your police force and simultaneously equip same force with military ordinance. Your two major political parties are fully captured by the militarist mind and your doom is nigh if you can't reverse course.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 26 2020 9:01 utc | 246

I had a glance through the Saker piece about the rape and pillage that accompanies the victors in war.

It is along the lines of what karlof1 and walter were discussing in one of these threads.
Standard stuff throughout history but what annoys me is the the bullshit that somehow we are above that - sort of like the virgin mary and immaculate conception - but the anglosphere sheeple believe this shit that somehow we are above all that.
Those others, they're the bad guys.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 26 2020 9:38 utc | 247

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 26 2020 9:38 utc | 247

My sister-in-law was a German girl, came out of post-WWII Germany. Passed away a few years ago. Two daughters, half-a-dozen grandkids, working on the 4th generation. Her husband was in the Air Farce in Vietnam, pushing 80 now, the last of my living siblings.

I believe the German population was subjected to rape and pillage along the same lines as the Japanese after WWII. I have seen it discussed a few times, but it never goes anywhere. Like with the native Americans here, everybody admits we have lied and cheated them but nobody does anything that would remedy that, because that would mean giving something BACK.

To be fair, it must be admitted that both the Germans and the Japanese thought abusing civilian populations under their control was a great idea too.

As various here have said:

The opportunity of rape and pillage has long been the main incentive for wars, and it still is. People who like war, that is why they like war, those things and also the opportunity to kill people with impunity.

But we don't like to talk about it, it messes up the buying mood.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 26 2020 10:40 utc | 248

Bemildred 248

"As various here have said:

The opportunity of rape and pillage has long been the main incentive for wars, and it still is. People who like war, that is why they like war, those things and also the opportunity to kill people with impunity."

That is the description of war and why I am against it. I have no problem with defense forces - emphasis on defense, not yankistan warrior types.

Even defense forces that only react to direct aggression, do what humans do when they have won no matter the policies of the leadership.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 26 2020 11:12 utc | 249

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 26 2020 11:12 utc | 249

Yes, it is true that even victorious generals are sometimes reluctant to interfere with their glorious, victorious troops. After wars like WWII in particular, wars of extermination.

The thing is warrior-types actually make lousy soldiers, and the US military is just full of them, they love those guys, the John McCains.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 26 2020 12:06 utc | 250

The guy was 29 years old. Black. Probably lived in a black, relatively poor neighbourhood, probably been beat up by the cops a few times, probably saw some of his peers sent to prison for selling a dime bag. Therefore a natural resistance to get nabbed by the cops. Most middle class white folks do not have the same experiences as him with the police and cannot judge what was going through his head at the time.
This "he might have a gun in his car" is pretty thin.

Posted by: arby | Aug 26 2020 13:00 utc | 251

I am disappointed with the responses I have received, but at least they have answered my question to a certain extent anyway. This situation wont be resolved without much, much more violence.

Because I am of the opinion that a person cannot be allowed to physically fight with a police officer and then walk away, I am a boot licking, cop loving authoritarian. Got it!

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 13:29 utc | 252

The thread has turned towards Kenosha. I am nearby.

First, if cops outnumbering the perp four to one cannot successfully make an arrest they need to find other jobs. Handing out guns to people who demonstrate complete ineptitude is a very bad idea.

Jacob Blake is still alive after having been shot seven times at point blank range. This is theoretically possible. Barely. It is odd enough to attract some attention and to make questions about everything surrounding this incident reasonable.

What is going on with the little parade as Blake leads two cops around his car? Cops with guns drawn? Everybody in frame looks completely dispassionate. What is going on here?

Why does the officer open fire? He still looks completely uninvolved. He’s not angry. He’s wooden. And opens fire.

Watch the pistol and the hand holding it. And the arm behind the hand. This gun has essentially no recoil. Is he firing blanks?

Watch the body inside the car. Blake is wearing a white t-shirt and the car is dark, the interior is dark. Video does not show a lot, it does show something. Blake slumps forward over the steering wheel. And then just doesn’t move. Impact of bullets should make the body jump. The body remains still.

Blake is from Evanston, where I am. He was a student athlete at ETHS. Spots on football team around here are not about physical talent, you get those spots because of who your family is. It is not a merit system. It is purely political. Blake’s grandfather is a prominent local preacher. The black church here is an arm of the Democratic Party. The uncle and the grandfather are on TV being interviewed and they look positively buoyant. Do not look at all like people who have suffered a loss in immediate family.

I don’t need to read all the details about Navalny or about Skripal to know the official story is a pack of lies. The Kenosha story is not one where we can completely automatically dismiss the official story. But we should, as always, examine the official story.

In meantime a lot of stereotypes are being played and reinforced here. Young black men are all Cujo. Bullets don’t stop them. So if you shoot them be sure and empty your gun. And have a bigger gun. Police of course are pictured as completely dumb and completely evil. That last I almost agree with. But dumb people are people. The people in the video are like puppets or stick characters. Most bad cops (which is most all cops) are bullies. They wanted the job in first place because they are bullies. I don’t see bullies in that video. Bullies act out full time. The cop in video goes direct to pulling the trigger without first showing any behavior expected from a bully. Something is wrong with this picture.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 26 2020 13:31 utc | 253

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 13:29 utc | 252

Except for the fact that he wasn't fighting the cops, he was just heading to his car.

You shouldn't go from the concrete to the abstract. Either you observe the concrete directly (not always possible) or you go from the abstract to the concrete. But never the inverse.

Otherwise, we will just decree cops are sacrosanct and allow them to sow dread and terror unabated in America, a la Praetorian Guard in Ancient Rome.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 13:36 utc | 254

My 2 cents> (Something I have wanted to say for a long time, and observation)

Many years ago I studied a little under a Reform Rabbi - I had grown up with Jews, dated Jewish girls, and yet knew little of their more private world, and there were questions about specific sections of "the old testament" and the Talmud.

One claim I heard was that Jewish Law was some of the earliest law regulating war, armed conflict.

And one feature of that Law was that, when laying siege to a city, it was forbidden to completely surround the city, but a free path by which the occupants could exit was required.

It is only my amateur opinion, but this policy, in a general way, seems to be the policy that the zionish fellas pursue in the lands they have occupied. It's not so much a policy of extermination, more like making things so very phucked that people will decide to leave.

In the immediate tactical sense it may be a fairly sound idea, but when applied to a vast multi generational operation it has had the effect of, inter alia, corrupting the surrounding force soldiers and alienating the very tribes that enable the zionish pogroms, as well as strengthening the regional resistance to the policy.

It's a failed policy. The end result is to divide the Jewish Tribes from one another. It's a classical tragedy.

Just my view. I see the zionish affair as a multidecade intelop that lets fascist minded Jews rule and corrupt decent people while it provides a forward operating base in Palestine for UK and Murka..

Posted by: Walter | Aug 26 2020 13:42 utc | 255

@Walter #207
You make 2 assertions:
1) That all cops carry automatics
2) That all of these automatics have a round loaded in the chamber
Is there a public survey which shows this? Or is it your own opinion?

In point of fact: No normal policeman carries an automatic weapon. The service guns - generally Glocks - are semi-automatic. One pull, one discharge, auto reload.
Actual automatic weapons both reload and fire automatically so long as the trigger is held down.

Furthermore, carrying a round in the chamber in a gun you wear would result in literally thousands of accidental shots every year. The reason you don't carry a round in the chamber, unless violence is anticipated, is precisely so that you don't fire a shot off by mistake into your leg/foot/house/family. This firing can occur many ways including strong bumps or pulling the gun out of the holster.

If you refer to the automatics that a number of police carry in the trunks of their cars, in case of an extreme violence situation: that is possible but again, a round in the chamber is an incredibly unsafe practice. An accidental discharge into even a car is not a good situation, and with an automatic weapon, it becomes even worse as it is very possible that multiple shots are discharged.

So in general, I don't see your comment as being the least bit credible - but perhaps you have some data you can show.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2020 13:52 utc | 256

This is how the billionaires really work - and how cheaply influence can be bought if the ideology isn't too disparate: Bill Gates buys glowing NPR coverage for only $17.5 million

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2020 13:54 utc | 257

vk - Except for the fact that he wasn't fighting the cops, he was just heading to his car.

You clearly have not watched the video, there was a physical altercation and he was tased before he tried to go to his car. If you dont know what you are talking about then stfu. Idiot.

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:13 utc | 258

Another example of how the "gig" economy is simply a way to capture workers and evade labor laws: Instakart shoppers hurt by COVID-19 online shopping surge (and resulting hiring surge)

n 2019, Lisa, a single mother, lost her job as the media relations director at a firm in Nashville, Tennessee, moved south to her hometown Jacksonville, Florida, and signed up to deliver groceries for Instacart.

With the $1,000 she earned each week shuttling groceries from supermarkets to her clients, she could make payments on her $2,300 a month mortgage, and car and utility bills, with enough left over to order novels from Amazon and household gadgets from QVC.

The arrival of COVID-19 pandemic in Florida changed all of that. In May, Lisa’s weekly earnings hurtled downward from $1000 to $500 to $90 (recovering partially in June and July).


In late April, the San Francisco-based start-up announced it had hired 300,000 new gig workers to meet rising demand for grocery delivery during the first two months of the pandemic, and had plans to bring on an additional 200,000 workers.


In early 2020, Lisa ranked near the top of 390 Instacart shoppers in the Jacksonville Beaches metro area, a sprawling island community to the north of Florida’s largest city. But during the pandemic, she says the app had hired an additional 900 shoppers in her area.

What's particularly interesting is that anti-labor practices may already be enshrined in this company:

Veteran Instacart shoppers have noted that the pandemic is not the first time they’ve dealt with saturated markets and times when it’s difficult to get orders. Most years, usually in the fall, for reasons not entirely clear, orders slow down, competition rises, and Instacart slashes pay, prompting some contingent of shoppers to quit working on the app.

And the best part? Instakart was losing money until the COVID-19 lockdowns turbocharged their orders. Now they're making some profit - how well this lasts is a good question: Instakart probably makes $10M in April
This is amusing as COVID-19 is literally the best case scenario for Instakart.
To recap:
Instakart has raised $1.8 billion in funding.
A 1% interest rate return on this funding would be $18 million a year.
More normal interest for a business loan starts at 8%.
$10 million Instakart profit in 1 month doesn't even constitute business loan @8% interest payment - and this occurred in the literally most positive environment possible for Instakart.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2020 14:14 utc | 259

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:13 utc | 258

Then that's even worse, because the guy then had a legitimate reason to go to his car: he was fleeing, in distress, to the nearest shelter he could find (his car), after being electrocuted. Makes the case of "an AR-15 in his car" even weaker.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 14:21 utc | 260

c1ue | Aug 26 2020 13:52 utc | 256

If only you knew more you would not write such silly "criticism".

Posted by: Walter | Aug 26 2020 14:26 utc | 261

Way to double down on the stupidity. Where the fuck are you getting this AK47 bullshit from? This man tried to retrieve a pistol from his car a few years ago when they were trying to arrest him for pulling his pistol in a bar. A K9 dog stopped him from getting it.

There is a video online that show 2 cops wrestling with a person, trying to arrest him for DUI. He gets away from the cops goes to his car, pulls a pistol and shoots both cops, killing one of them.

Your stance, and others like it, is incredibly irrational.

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:30 utc | 262

@Walter #261
Yes, your lack of information does reinforce your lack of credibility.
You have no idea what I know or what I do.
I certainly don't spend multiple hours each day making mostly dumb comments.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2020 14:33 utc | 263

vk - Also, the person had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Are the cops supposed to let a wanted person walk away?

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:36 utc | 264

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:13 utc | 258

Just bothered to search the case after your monster interpolation over your own previous post.

There's no indication taser was used in the video (which is a security camera from another apartment), nor the main witness - his neighbor - mentions any taser. What both the witness and the video show is that the cop grabbed him by the shirt from behind [and shot him seven times in the back point blank - the shooting per se doesn't appear in the publicly released version of the video]. The video also shows he was just yelling, and that he walked around his car before opening the driver's door and getting grabbed by the shirt. Not a scene of "cops in distress", for sure.

The "wife beater" version also doesn't seem to add up. Also according to the witness and the video, his child already was inside the car. The witness (his neighbor) also stated she saw a "bag full of presents" to his children, which makes the case for domestic abuse and dispute for the guard of the child very weak, to say the least. His neighbor also stated it was a normal, calm Sunday that day, and that he didn't notice nothing weird going on in his neighborhood.

All this indicate that:

1) the taser and physical altercation are an interpolation of yours, which you could or could not have taken from somewhere else;

2) Jacob Blake may have had a history of domestic abuse, but, if he had, it was well in his past, as his visit with his child was, according to the main witness, peaceful;

3) The warrant may or may not be a fabrication of yours, but it probably is, since the Mayor of the city and the chief of the police didn't mention it. His lawyer - Benjamin Crump - also publicly stated the police didn't inform him why the police approached his client. All in all, the "discover of the warrant" is likely a fabrication of yours, used as a literary piece to legitimize the cops alleged sudden shift of behavior towards Blake.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 14:45 utc | 265

vk - I happen to live very close to where this is happening. I have read local news concerning this, it is available on the web, I am unsure why you are not able to read it yourself.

I never mentioned domestic abuse. The video I watched was clearly from a cell phone. The outstanding warrant and the previous gun related incidents are real.

You accusing me of making up what is clearly available public information makes you look ridiculous.

There is no point in conversing with you.

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:54 utc | 266

@ Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 14:54 utc | 266

Put the links for your "local news" here in this forum, then.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 14:57 utc | 267

I have to go to work. You know how to use google dont you? As I said it is easily available public information. Look it up yourself.

Posted by: visak | Aug 26 2020 15:01 utc | 268

Video I saw

shot in the back

Posted by: arby | Aug 26 2020 15:01 utc | 269

vk, everyone

visak is clearly a troll.

Blake's children were in the car. He wasn't going to the car for a gun (there's been no mention of any gun found) and the police could've easily shot the car tires or taken other non-lethal measures (like simply following him if he drove away because he wasn't being violent, just non-compliant).

The "warrant" thing seems like a non-issue. By all accounts I've seen, Blake was interceding in a dispute between two women. He wasn't involved in the dispute so there was no reason for the police to ID him. They may have asked for his ID (with no good reason) and he refused to provide it. So *IF* there was a warrant, it's unlikely that the police at the scene knew of it.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 15:11 utc | 270

arby @Aug26 15:01 #269

Not just shot in the back but shot seven times at point blank range in front of his kids.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 15:17 utc | 271


[Wisconsin] Lt. Governor Mandela Barnes, who is African American, has distinctly personal feelings about the shooting of Blake even as local and state officials promise a full investigation in the matter. Here he tells why he believes incidents like this keep happening and solutions to make it stop.

"Jacob Blake was shot in the back seven times in front of his children. This wasn’t an accident. The officer’s deadly actions attempted to take a person’s life in broad daylight. Like many of you, the video is burned into my mind like all the past videos just like it.
The irony is not lost on me that as Jacob Blake was trying to deescalate a fight in his community, the responding officer didn’t feel the need to do the same—and now we all know Jacob Blake’s name.
As we’ve said before, this violence is all too familiar to us, especially for those of us who are on the receiving end—whose communities are overpoliced, whose children learn early on that police officers aren’t always serving and protecting them as they should.". . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 15:23 utc | 272

JR, oh I agree. That video should come with a strong warning.
The cop had him by the T- shirt. The small girl witnessing this jumping up and down. Truly violent and vicious.

Posted by: arby | Aug 26 2020 15:24 utc | 273

How to erase History:

School Reopenings in Germany Offer Lessons for Others: Fast and free testing, robust contact tracing and low community spread have helped students return to class in person.

The problem with this headline is that it is not Germany who's to school the other countries, but China. It was China which successfully reopened its schools. In one stroke, the editor erased China from History and put Germany in its place. At least the peoples of Antiquity could claim they didn't have reliable sources when they amalgamated many people in one; this one, on the other side, is pure propaganda.

The journalist of this piece interviewed one person from one city in Germany (Berlin) and called it a day. The true headline is "In Germany, early results of school reopenings are hopeful, but it’s ‘messy and imperfect.’" The editor of NYT's home page wrote the completely dishonest headline in the link.


Play stupid games, win stupid prizes:

Greece vows to expand territorial waters to 12 miles. Turkey once said it would be grounds for war

As I once speculated here one month ago, what most likely happened during the refugee crisis post-Libya and post-Syria is that the EU had to pay a ransom's quantity of money to Turkey so that it could block the land and Aegean routes of refugees to Europe. It also probably included giving Turkey's Navy a freer hand in the Eastern Mediterranean than the normal. It was the price to pay for avoiding the embarrassment of having pictures of little boys dead in the beaches of the Aegean being published in Icelandic newspapers.

Well, Turkey saw what it got... and probably liked it very much. It is now drilling for gas in the already known huge reserves of the Eastern Mediterranean (of which the largest one, the Leviathan, is the reason Israel wants to absorb Gaza).

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 15:40 utc | 274

Jackrabbit @270

In some states and areas of the US, when the police respond to a "Domestic Dispute", they are required to arrest any males that appear to be involved. No questions are asked about the domestic dispute until the apparent male participants are brought to the police station for questioning. This is a requirement that has been demanded by the public to protect women in domestic dispute situations. While details can come out later about who were actually involved in the dispute and who were not involved, it is the duty of the police responding to the dispute to simply arrest any males appearing to be involved and take them away from the situation.

These kinds of laws certainly can result in absurdities, and I do not know if Wisconsin has such laws, but these laws are enacted to protect women from male violence. They are put on the books with good intentions.

And we all know where good intentions lead.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 15:43 utc | 275

I'm not going to argue the right or wrong of the police shooting in Kenosha. I've had many interactions with the police in my life. If a cop has a gun on you, tells you to stop, do it. If only for self preservation.

Posted by: Shadow | Aug 26 2020 15:48 utc | 276

William Gruff @Aug26 15:43 #275

I haven't seen any reporting that includes mandatory arrest/detention.

In fact, since Kenosha police have been very quiet about what happened, we can infer that there is no mandatory arrest/detention and that the shooting was completely unjustified.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 15:50 utc | 277

@ Posted by: Shadow | Aug 26 2020 15:48 utc | 276

But then you're tacitly admitting the police force is a de facto praetorian guard, and that there's no true rule of law in the USA. This undermines its world propaganda of "preserving and spreading democracy". You Americans don't realize the impact these kind of absurdities do to your country in the PR front, but it is very visible from the outside. See, for example:

Kenosha shooting breaks another myth about American freedom

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 15:58 utc | 278

Jackrabbit @277

You can assume whatever you want. More details will come out later, as they did with the George Floyd incident.

These mandatory arrest laws are not advertised when they go wrong because that would be misogynist. Misogyny or racism? Tough choice.

The fact remains that the United States has a huge problem with violent behavior. For that to include cops shouldn't be a surprise.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 16:02 utc | 279

Here's the new video that starts sooner and is shot from a different angle.

Everything happens so quickly that I advise that you change the playback speed to 0.25. Also, the video resolution isn't good. If you use a big screen you won't be able to make out what is happening. So use an appropriately-sized window size.

In the first seconds, you can see Jacob Blake on the ground near the rear wheel, someone that I assume to be his ex-girlfriend (with colorful pants), and the two officers. A bunch of neighbors are drawn to the commotion.

Note: The ex-girlfriend is the women that screams and jumps up and down in the street in the first video from the neighbor across the street.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 16:05 utc | 280

Jack at 215, yeah. I couldn’t believe what I was reading - re. the post you extract quotes from - and then I thought. Yikes, this is the way many ppl think and feel? Shooting an unarmed person in the back 7 times (if that is the right number) is a way of controlling a situation?

Well it isn’t surprising in a way - Bombing terrified Bagdhadi residents many children to get rid of an “ugly dictator” makes about as much sense. The “violence comes home to roost” argument is not one USA! USA! USA! citizens have ever taken to - I have heard denial of the coming mayhem from many Americans - all of it based on American ‘exceptionalism’ and thus some brand of nationalistic fervor. Even the effed-over working class (in the US, should be described as poor unemployed, deplorables, oppressed, homeless, victims of the judicial system, the for-profit med system, prison workers, essential workers given short shrift, etc.) refuse to see themselves as similar to wretches or victims in countries that are targetted by the US (Iraq, Lybia, Venez. etc.)

Peter 245 posted. If the person cannot be restrained, but are trying to get away - even then they are not shot. Absolutely. In Switz. shooting is verboten in any such situation - and the present orders (varies by canton) are also no chase by car, as that can end in killing cops, other drivers, bystanders, etc.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 26 2020 16:21 utc | 281

The mission of the Kenosha Police Department is to serve all people with respect, fairness and compassion. We are committed to preserving peace, order and safety; enforcing laws and ordinances; and safeguarding constitutional rights.. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 16:38 utc | 282

Two U.S. Carriers Return to South ChinaG Sea After State Dept. Formally Rejects Chinese Claims | USNI - July 17, 2020 |

Chinese Military Told to Prevent Escalation in Interactions With US

China’s military has reportedly been instructed to deescalate incidents with the U.S. military to prevent potential undesired clashes as tensions rise between the two countries in the Western Pacific.

The South China Morning Post quotes Chinese sources claiming that pilots and ship captains have been told “not to fire the first shot” in potential incidents with U.S. ships or planes.

The reported order follows several months of increased U.S. naval and air operations in and around the South China Sea and years of dangerous and provocative responses by Chinese ships and planes.

US sanctions 24 Chinese companies for role in South China Sea ...

Chinese military fires ‘aircraft-carrier killer’ missile into South China Sea in ‘warning to the United States’

Posted by: Oui | Aug 26 2020 17:05 utc | 283

visak | Aug 25 2020 22:24 utc | 209

I scanned, several times, all the entries to this thread. Am I correct that your first entry (to this thread) was the one of the above referenced time stamp?

I ask because you claim to have information concerning Blake that I haven't seen or heard reported. I'm not saying it might not be out there, but if you want to be taken seriously here you should cite the source of your information. Embedding a link is not too hard, but pay close attention to the exact characters listed in the "Allowed HTML Tags," and then use the preview feature to make sure that it will display correctly. Early on in this thread I posted my first link, and only by using the preview did I see that I had not done it correctly. If you don't want to embed a link at least recite the name of your source(s).

Again, allowing that your information concerning Blake's history with law enforcement might be factual, it seems more than odd that this information hasn't burned like wildfire through the MSM, if for no other reason than to defuse a situation that is already spiraling out of control. Of course the conspiratorial (of which many lean their elbows on the bar here) might interpret this as "fear" of BLM, or to use an already now archaic term "political correctness."

Would you care to share the source(s) of your information? The onus is on you, as you have stated several conclusions based on that alleged information. If such information does exist and is indisputably factual, then you could be a real hero for advancing a more informed discussion to get to the crux of whether, even that, is "justification" for shooting a man seven times in the back, at point blank range.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Aug 26 2020 17:05 utc | 284

COVID reinfection cases show immunity vanishes quickly:

"Recovered COVID-19 patients have immunity that usually lasts for six to 12 months, but the level of antibodies could wane faster than expected for various reasons, Jin Dongyan, a biomedical professor at the University of Hong Kong, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

"The Hong Kong patient got infected again roughly five months after having recovered, and the Belgian patient did so after three months.

"Wuhan-based virologist Yang Zhanqiu attributed the low level of antibodies resulting in reinfection to different strains of virus. 'The cross-protection immunity effect could be weak or zero when it comes to different virus strains,' Yang said.

"In the Hong Kong case, the man was showing certain cross-protection immunity, despite being infected by different virus strains, Jin said."

The assumption must then be that even a vaccine won't confer any degree of long-term immunity/protection, which will render the suite of COVIDs akin to the numerous types of influenzas although somewhat deadlier. It appears that the presumption some of us entertained that mask wearing would become a norm if one wanted to protect one's health will be proven correct even with vaccines widely available.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 17:09 utc | 285

the details that came out in the george floyd incident, like the details that later came out in the georgia jogger incident, showed the murderous thugs were murderous thugs, just like people concluded from watching the videos. riots get kicked off when murderous government thugs kill people, especially when they get away with it, as dozens of cops have done. They often even get new jobs in a different police department. and every single time the victim gets smeared. that's a violence problem and the way to rein in that violence is to prosecute the murderous government thugs.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 26 2020 17:28 utc | 286

Just in case their Strategic Partnership wasn't close enough after closely cooperating on the COVID fight, "Xi, Putin congratulate on opening of China-Russia scientific, technological innovation year":

"'China and Russia, as responsible major countries in the world as well as scientific and technological powers with important influence, should move forward with the tide of the times, grasp the trend of development, and advance the all-round, multi-level and wide-ranging exchanges and cooperation between the scientific and technological personnel of the two countries, so that they can make greater contributions to the reform of the global governance system and the building of a community with a shared future for humanity,' Xi said."

While Putin said:

"'I sincerely wish that the Year of Scientific and Technological Innovation will be a success and add new substance to the development of the Russia-China comprehensive strategic partnership of coordination for a new era.'"

Of course, such cooperation is always ongoing, so this must be seen as an acceleration. What's unknown for obvious reasons is the level of security integration between the two. In my and other opinions, it makes no sense to have two separate systems (three when you add Iran) covering Eurasia. Perhaps the redundancies would consist of multiple systems--for example, nuclear powered laser defense systems to deal with hypersonic weapons. Meanwhile, the Drowning Outlaw US Empire can't get anyone to partner with it since it just steals the end product.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 17:29 utc | 287

vk it's very obvious even from inside america, if you aren't blinded by ideology into slavishly supporting the murderous cops.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 26 2020 17:30 utc | 288

@ 283 Oui
Chinese Military Told to Prevent Escalation in Interactions With US
No more.
The US has stepped up its military provocations in China, and China has responded.
South China Morning Post :

China launched two missiles, including an “aircraft-carrier killer”, into the South China Sea
on Wednesday morning, a source close to the Chinese military said, sending a clear warning to the United States.
The move came one day after China said a US U-2 spy plane entered a no-fly zone without permission during a Chinese live-fire naval drill in the Bohai Sea off its north coast.
One of the missiles, a DF-26B, was launched from the northwestern province of Qinghai, while the other, a DF-21D, lifted off from Zhejiang province in the east. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 17:33 utc | 289

@ 287 karlof
. . . so that they can make greater contributions to the reform of the global governance system and the building of a community with a shared future for humanity,' Xi said."

As we know, this is what really PO's the US, the danger to the "Liberal World Order."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 26 2020 17:37 utc | 290

Apparently, Wisconsin does have mandatory arrest laws in place for domestic disturbances: Wisconsin Statute § 968.075 (2)(a). The cops are required to arrest if there are any signs of violence.

In other words, if this individual in Kenosha, Wisconsin was suspected of being involved in the domestic disturbance, the police were required to arrest him. Perhaps they don't talk much about it because they don't want that law rescinded? It is one of the exceptions to requiring a warrant to make an arrest, and cops like those exceptions.

On top of this, domestic disturbance calls are by far the most dangerous calls for police to respond to.

It's not like the people in the neighborhood were peacefully minding their own business and the cops showed up looking for someone to kill. I mean, maybe the cops were looking for someone to kill since they are cops after all, but they were called to the place to face the kind of call most cop deaths occur at, and they are required by law to arrest someone who looks dangerous once they get there.

In other words, if you live in one of these mandatory arrest states and your wife calls the cops thinking it's an easy way to get the upper hand in an argument with you, then you are best off just holding your hands out to be cuffed because the cops don't have a choice. And don't try to argue with them. This isn't China where the cops will listen. This is America where the cops absolutely will shoot you if you don't do as they say. It has been this way for decades in the USA, so why people are all surprised by it all of the sudden is a minor mystery.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 17:41 utc | 291

pretzelattack @286--

Big problem in attaining convictions of the thugs and justice for the victims is the judicial doctrine of Qualified Immunity, which I linked to @213. Just as the Outlaw US Empire's soldiers don't commit acts of terrorism when they terrorize or arm terrorists or when US companies are caught doing so and are conferred immunity--Gitmo is such an obvious Terror factory where no guard's been prosecuted yet 90 year old Germans still get hunted down, arrested and are prosecuted.

Until an extremely serious reckoning obliterating the idea that some are above the law occurs within the Outlaw US Empire, such shit isn't going to be altered and will continue until it's halted through Revolution. And the above the law issue isn't just about police and military; it's also about bankers, politicos, and others of that ilk. For any type of MAGA to succeed, the Rule of Law must be reestablished and the Rule of Men--Force--outlawed for all time.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 17:45 utc | 292

William Gruff @291--

As I wrote to pretzel and often previously, the question of Law & Order and the absolute requirement for ALL to be subservient to it is really the root problem that's been ongoing for at least 75 years and more when we look at financial fraud and treason. We can see why the National Security State resists the above to the max as that's the source of its power--The Power of the Gun.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 17:54 utc | 293

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2020 17:41 utc | 291

The witnesses say there wasn't any domestic altercations.

His lawyer stated that he was told "Mr. Blake was attempting to intervene in an argument between two women when the police arrived." (NYT)

The police, so far, has not released the car camera's footage (dashboard cam). The only version circulating right now is the one filmed by a neighbor. As of today, they declined to comment.

Errata: Blake gave presents to mr. Lauderdale's son, not to his own son, as I stated before. The event happened "shortly before the shooting". According to Lauderdale, “He’s a family man. He takes good care of his kids.”. Blake actually has six children - three of which are said to be in the car when he was mowed down. Regardless, my point that there wasn't a domestic altercation over the guard of the children stands.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 18:22 utc | 294

Important update on the state of quantum computing:

"Chinese quantum computing researchers recently disclosed that a 60-qubit superconductivity quantum computing system with 99.5 percent fidelity could be achieved this year, and in 10 years, the system could evolve into a million-qubit level with a 99.8 percent fidelity, equivalent to, if not better than, its Google counterpart."

What's happening in that realm is quite fascinating. Too bad so much knucklehead behavior obscures such advances.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 18:34 utc | 295

Yes, the way to harness a situation like this politically is to strike when the iron is hot.

The man resisted, obstructed, had a warrant, and was potentially reaching. Seems far, far more understandable a situationif I am a cop then not listening to George Floyd when it came to pacifying the mentally distraught man under the influence of hard drugs.

Visak is perfectly warranted asking questions and pointing to the video.

When the man was walking around the car, the officers had guns drawn and so were clearly interested in having him remain still. You do not tackle someone or restrain someone with your gun drawn. Old Hippie claims the cadence of the time in question was strange, but not if you take the above into account.

There are several states where those behind the wheel have the right to drive off and the officers at the car side can not pursue. I can find a video of such an incident if a poster needs evidence of this.

But this was not a common stop. The man had a warrant and a history of violence. His non-compliance got him shot. PERIOD. Whether you are triggered by the phrase, "non-compliance," that seems to be what many posters in here are breathlessly bringing up, and, once again, it tells us more a about you as a poster than this very clear situation of not acting civil and getting yourself shot.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2020 18:53 utc | 296

@ Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2020 18:53 utc | 296

Even if all of that was true, it doesn't explain why the cop had to basically unload his Glock point blank on his back. Like, you would only need one shot to stop the guy, not seven.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2020 18:57 utc | 297

@297 vk

It's a fair point.

I definitely advocate looking at other non-lethal means to incapacitate. Our police is hyper-militarized and our cities show advanced decay from neglected domestic problems. It's a powder keg.

The problem is, we will never get to that question when you have those politically harnessing these events and framing them along racial lines.

But I will posit that for a cop, when you pull your gun...that means it's on, for better or worse.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2020 19:04 utc | 298

William Gruff @Aug26 17:41 #291

Let's be clear on this: The officer wasn't trying to arrest Blake when he riddled him with bullets, he was trying to kill him.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2020 19:05 utc | 299

Elsewhere, Zarif trolls Pompeo again:

"Thanks to @SecPompeo, we now know criteria for a country to be removed from—or included in—State Dept's terror list:

"Relations with Israel.

"World's No.1 nuclear threat, rights violator, illegal occupier & terror entity

"How can the world STILL take US foreign policy seriously?"

At the link, one can see how the Outlaw US Empire extorted Sudan for the crimes the Empire's agent bin-Laden supposedly committed while supposedly a resident of Sudan. Seems to me the same "logic" can be used to extort money from the Empire for its numerous terrorist actions going back to 1945, there being no statute of limitations on terroristic crimes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2020 19:07 utc | 300

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