Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 09, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-63

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

  • August 4 - Beirut Explosion
  • August 5 - Beirut Blast Wrap-up
    The Tragic Physics of the Deadly Explosion in Beirut - Rachel Lance / Wired
    The Beirut Explosion: Who is responsible? - Elijah Magnier
    > The many “conspiracy theories” fail to line up with the facts of this accident. Ignorance, incompetence, favouritism and bureaucracy are the reasons for the loss of so many lives and the destruction of Beirut, a capital where people have not learned to stand together. This is a huge national tragedy. The Lebanese hold property in many foreign countries, west and east. This expresses the lack of a sense of belonging- because this is a country where elected politicians have amassed and stolen all the country’s wealth, where they hoard power, and where they pass it on to their sons. <
Sharmine Narwani @snarwani - 22:24 UTC · Aug 8, 2020
Lebanese protestors today hung cardboard cutouts of Saad Hariri and his allies, but you won't see this because media is only showing pics of Nasrallah, Berri and Aoun being hung. All political leaders were derided equally today. Don't fall for the propaganda, #Lebanon
Amal Saad @amalsaad_lb - 22:46 UTC · 8 Aug 2020
The US and Saudi have once again sought to capitalize on politically engineered tragedies in Lebanon using their local proxies. Legitimate fury about the Beirut blast has been channeled into a sectarian campaign to disarm Hizbullah by interventionists with neo-colonial fantasies

Other issues:

Civil War of 2020:

America Is About To Feel Like A 3rd World Nation - Ian Welsh
How white radicals hijacked Portland’s protests - Michael Tracey / Unherd
The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. - Malcolm X

Covid-19 research:

SARS-CoV-2 infection fatality risk in a nationwide seroepidemiological study

We used data from a nation-wide seroepidemiological study and two sources of mortality information -deaths among laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 cases and excess deaths- to estimate the range of IFR, both overall and by age and sex, in Spain. The overall IFR ranged between 1.1% and 1.4% in men and 0.58% to 0.77% in women. The IFR increased sharply after age 50, ranging between 11.6% and 16.4% in men ≥80 years and between 4.6% and 6.5% in women ≥80 years. Our IFR estimates for SARS-CoV-2 are substantially greater than IFR estimators for seasonal influenza, justifying the implementation of special public health measures.

Clinical Course and Molecular Viral Shedding Among Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Patients With SARS-CoV-2 Infection in a Community Treatment Center in the Republic of Korea - Jama

Findings In this cohort study that included 303 patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection isolated in a community treatment center in the Republic of Korea, 110 (36.3%) were asymptomatic at the time of isolation and 21 of these (19.1%) developed symptoms during isolation. The cycle threshold values of reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction for SARS-CoV-2 in asymptomatic patients were similar to those in symptomatic patients.

A Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Postexposure Prophylaxis for Covid-19 - NEJM

Results We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.

Statement from Yale Faculty on Hydroxychloroquine and its Use in COVID-19

While minority opinions, anecdotal evidence, novel interpretations and challenges to orthodoxies in a field can be important, at some point, the application of the scientific method generating evidence from multiple, well-designed clinical trials and observational studies does matter and should be heard over the noise of conspiracy theories, purported hoaxes, and the views of zealots.

Scientists May Be Using the Wrong Cells to Study Covid-19 - Wired

Dr. Angela Rasmussen @angie_rasmussen - 15:18 UTC · Aug 6, 2020
Vero cells don't express TMPRSS2, but do express cathepsin L. These are proteins that can both enable #SARSCoV2 entry. CQ/HCQ blocks cathepsin L, but not TMPRSS2. Human lung cells, which do have TMPRSS2, are still susceptible to infection because CQ has no effect on that pathway.
Now I know this because I'm a virologist and I know all about Vero cells. But as both @profvrr and @paimadhu point out, when non-virologists start working on #COVID19 treatments using only Vero cells because they're convenient, the results can be misleading.

Covid-19 economics:

Minimizing Economic Costs for COVID-19 - Yaneer Bar-Yam / NECSI
Coming Next: The Greater Recession - Paul Krugman / NYT

Put it all together and the expiration of emergency aid could produce a 4 percent to 5 percent fall in G.D.P. But wait, there’s more. States and cities are in dire straits and are already planning harsh spending cuts; ...
Bear in mind that the coronavirus itself — a shock that came out of the blue, though the United States mishandled it terribly — reduced G.D.P. by “only” around 10 percent. What we’re looking at now may be another shock, a sort of economic second wave, almost as severe in monetary terms as the first.

Boeing 737:

Air India Express plane skids off runway, breaks into two pieces, police say; at least 16 people are dead, dozens injured - AP
This was a Boeing 737-800 NG. To learn why this type is prone to break apart after a hard landing watch the Al-Jazeerah documentation On a wing and a prayer.

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 9, 2020 at 13:11 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2020 5:04 utc | 105

Hey Peter take care. Spoke to my brother today and he seem to be carefree. But I'm not and we are still in talking term.

Posted by: JC | Aug 10 2020 5:19 utc | 101

Professor Syed Mirandi nails it on South African news:

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 10 2020 5:34 utc | 102

Arch Bungle Thanks for putting that up.

@all worth watching from the 3.26 mark. Iranian Mirandi talks of the takeover of government buildings by protesters and destruction of documents. Documents that will be needed in any investigation of the explosion.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2020 5:52 utc | 103

Richard Steven Hack #85,
Instead of relying on name-calling and ad hominem attacks, perhaps you could address the flaw in the methodology that I pointed out. The recent study was supposed to measure infection mortality rate (IFR), not the number of COVID-19 deaths. I'm not denying that excess mortality is partly - and in some cases largely - explained by death from COVID-19. The point is that it should not be relied on to measure IFR when it is not known how many of those excess deaths are caused by COVID-19.

Posted by: Brendan | Aug 10 2020 6:45 utc | 104

Belarus Election.

Al Jazeera reported 4 hours ago that anti-Lukashenko protests began before polling booths closed and some voting booths will be kept open past the official closing time. The Electoral Commission has said that exit polls show that Lukashenko is winning 81% of the vote.

Imo it's more than a little bizarre that NED's protesters are whining about irregularities in the system before voting has finished and before the Electoral Commission has announced its final verdict.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 10 2020 6:58 utc | 105

William Gruff #84

So how long now before we see "mysterious snipers" in Minsk shooting both police and protesters?

Everyone here knows that what is coming next, right?

Thank you and I am aware of the likelihood of snipers appearing soon.

However there are helpers at hand for Lucky Luko in the form of 30 Spec Forces trained lads recently arrested as part of that Ukraine con job. I am sure they could assist Lucky Luko in exchange for a small consideration and a free passage home. Odd twists await the perfidious albions in the east.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2020 7:20 utc | 106

8# Chevrus,

You are quite right about the origins of the term "conspiracy theorist",coined in the aftermath of the Kennedy-assassination,and specifically in the reactions to the Warren-report.You fail to underline though the fact that its first use was in the debate about LeeHarveyOswald as the lone gunman theory,as opposed to the murdering by a conspiracy of people-theory with two or more shooters.

In the movie "The Experts",with Robert Redford,there is the Dan Ackroyd character who at least to me,for the first time puts out this kind of theories,of never having been on the moon,and telling who was behind the kennedy's murders.It came out at the beginning of the rise and acceptance of the internet.

Posted by: willie | Aug 10 2020 7:25 utc | 107

Grayzone produced a good video about the real identity of a prominent Hong Kong pundit and anti-China activist named Kong Tsung-gan. He is the source of many western stories about Hong Kong. His real identity is Brian Kern, who lives in Hong Kong, with deep ties to HRW. You can watch the video, titled 'Western media's favorite 'Hong Kong activist' is US regime-changer in yellowface" on YouTube.

Posted by: Peter Schmidt | Aug 10 2020 8:09 utc | 108

Moshe Feiglin: Glad it was Beirut and not Tel Aviv

Former MK says he hopes Israel was behind massive explosion at Beirut port, says it would create 'balance of terror' with Hezbollah.

Former MK Moshe Feiglin responded to the outrage over his celebration of the deadly explosion which occurred in Beirut, Lebanon yesterday.

"If it was us, and I hope it was us, then we should be proud of it, and with that we will create a balance of terror. By avoiding saying it's us - we are putting ourselves on the dark side of morality," Feiglin said in an interview with Radio 103FM.

"We are all allowed to rejoice that it exploded in the port of Beirut and not in Tel Aviv," he added.

Posted by: Mao | Aug 10 2020 8:55 utc | 109

Truth: Terrorist intentionally rams a motorcycle into HK police.

NYToiletpaper: Just a collision!

Posted by: J W | Aug 10 2020 9:07 utc | 110

HCQ issues.

It seems for every US/UK/French attack on the the efficacy of HCQ, you can find supportive scientific studies and practices using HCQ.

Here is a recent one:

"In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact."

A recent letter from the Didier Raoult team:

"Coincidentally or as a consequence, the countries with the highest mortality from COVID-19 are also the countries that have demonized chloroquine the most, i.e. Western Europe and part of the United States. There is therefore a geographical pro- or anti-chloroquine correlation, on the one hand North-South, on the other hand West-East, which is beyond scientific data. A total of 4.6 billions of people live in countries where chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine are recommended for COVID-19."

A Recent Chinese review of HCQ effectiveness:

"In summary, HCQ and CQ were found to have exert anti-SARS-CoV-2 effects both in vitro and in vivo, and represent potential treatment options for COVID-19 (Fig. 1). However, the clinical evidence of their effects is from some single-center clinical trials. Evidence from multi-center clinical trials is still lacking."

A recent Spanish review of HCQ:

"The evidence for the use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine in COVID-19 is not good so far ... Some countries and healthcare centers have adopted the use of hydroxychloroquine as a norm in patients hospitalized for COVID-19, due to political and social pressure given the publicity it has received. This makes the study of its possible beneficial effects even more difficult, and it has increased the reporting of its adverse effects."

The interesting bit in all this debate is what Raoult, et. al., refers to as " ...a geographical pro- or anti-chloroquine correlation, on the one hand North-South, on the other hand West-East, which is beyond scientific data."

b in Germany, of course, supports the North and West geographical bias. Lİving in Turkey, I tend to support the South and East bias. Is it all geography? It isn't science.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 10 2020 9:30 utc | 111

William Gruff @ 15

Yes, ammonium nitrate is used in mining operations where it is packed in boreholes along with high explosives as a cheap way to amplify the effect of the HE, but it is never used as an explosive by itself. That's because it doesn't work very good by itself as an explosive.
Some of your comments are spot on but this ain't one of them. Ammonium nitrate is not packed into boreholes to amplify HE. Once it's been mixed with fuel oil to become ANFO it is the high explosive to the extent that 80% of explosives used in the United States is ANFO. Unlike other HE, ANFO is stable enough that it requires an HE primer (fomerly a couple of sticks of dynamite) as well as a detonator to initiate the shockwave. ANFO is cheap and can be delivered in bulk from tankers (useful when using it by the ton).

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 10 2020 9:54 utc | 112

Peter AU1 #105

"But Mr Andrews ruled out mandating issuing P2 and N95 masks to all Victorian hospital and aged care workers treating COVID-19 patients, saying it was a matter for health experts to issue guidelines about proper use of protective equipment."

China understood and publisised that health care workers needed at least the equivalent of N95 masks back in February March.
The Victorian outbreak has spread from some extent due to lax regs on quarantine, but mostly it has spread through 'health care workers'.

Andrews is a loser. Any leader facing the disaster that is unfolding in Victoria should INSIST on maximum precaution. That is the first principle when confronted by an assault such as the Fort Detrick virus. The precautionary principle - wear a mask - minimise getting it and spreading it.

Merely standing back and allowing negligent advice from 'health care experts' when there is a vast global experience pointing in the opposite direction shows an abject ignorance and evasion of leadership. From the circumstances I have been told of I would never attend a testing clinic, never accept the advice of the 'experts' and always wear a mask and take my own sanitiser as they have none for the public. This is callous disregard for precaution and people's health and lives. I pity the sitting ducks in their aged care cells.

The state of Victoria will be ruined and their economy, and consequently that of the rest of Australia, badly damaged by the gross idiocy of 'health experts' in every state - not just Victoria.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2020 10:03 utc | 113

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 10 2020 9:30 utc | 116

"Spanish" review should be "Chilean"

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 10 2020 10:12 utc | 114

Well, it was also Marx who said that the transition from capitalist society to communist society would set free additional "productive forces". So while capitalism grows, communism grows even faster.

(At leat according to the marxist theory ...)

Posted by: m | Aug 10 2020 10:16 utc | 115

Are there any estimetes available for the IFR of Covid-19 without medical treatment? A certain percentage of ill people need oxygen or even ventilation.

I´m asking because that information is needed in order to estimate the impact that Covid-19 will have on developing nations.

[Sorry for the double post.)

Posted by: m | Aug 10 2020 10:29 utc | 116

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 1:19 utc | 94 Motive and opportunity makes a circumstantial case.

No, it does not. Evidence does. You have zero "opportunity" as a *fact*. And "motive" is far too broad.

"Now add cover-up into the mix as MSM tells us with 100% certainty that it was a accident and the Lebanese government allows only 4 days for investigation."

And yet you're prepared to tell us with 100% certainty that it was *not* an accident.

As I said before, you have zero ability to determine the difference between speculation and evidence. Don't waste my time.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 10 2020 10:49 utc | 117

Ammonium Nitrate requires a high energy initiator to detonate it i.e. TNT or dynamite. It doesn't blow because of a fire, or a welders torch.

Posted by: john the seahorse | Aug 10 2020 11:10 utc | 118

Could be an urgent development in the Mediterranean Sea (and in NATO as well)

Is Turkey preparing for war?

Tonight, all programs are cancelled on Turkish state-funded propaganda outlet TRT News so they can discuss developments in the Mediterranean on the Gündem Special program between 21:00 and 23:00 local time.

More info in that thread; Greece has put its military on alert.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 10 2020 11:56 utc | 119

Ammonium nitrate is a well known and documented industrial explosive, as stated be several commenters. What has not been stated is that if stored improperly, it is not benign and safe anymore.
Anyone who has handled explosives, knows that if they start "sweating" you have a serious problem. This is a fact for most commercial explosives. It means they are not stable anymore. And yes, explosives have a best before date.
2750 tonnes of 7 years old sweating ammonium nitrate would make me find a new house 50 miles (ca. 80 km) away. Fast, very fast.
I would not be surprised if investigations prove that incompetence, ignorance and stupidity was the main cause of this disaster.
And generally storing fertilizer and diesel oil together is not a good idea. Ever.

Posted by: Den lille abe | Aug 10 2020 12:19 utc | 120

The tragedy has descended into farce already:

Belarusian Opposition Candidate HQ Demands Peaceful Transfer of Power

"We are for peaceful changes. The authorities should now think about how to transfer this power in a peaceful manner. At the moment, their only way is violence against civilians. We will do everything so that this does not happen again," Tikhanovskaya said during the Monday press conference.

Well, the government used violence against civilians because said civilians tried to violently regime change the democratically elected government.

Tikhanovskaya's team representative Maria Kolesnikova said during Monday press conference that the Belarusian government "must accept defeat", as "the will of the Belarusian people cannot be falsified".

Tikhanovskaya stated she had 80% of the votes in an "independent poll" of hers. She received 9.9%. It's time for Lukashenko to test her hypothesis.

Posted by: vk | Aug 10 2020 12:25 utc | 121

re: US covid testing
3 vaguely related items

According to johns hopkins data, it seems the number of sars/covid tests in the US had stopped growing. (now around 0.75 million per day). a somewhat worrying signal just as back-to-school demands is about to hit.

The manufacturing capacity ramp-up of an existing rapid test product that is happening in a nearby town is within a week or two of being on schedule from what I hear, which is not bad. (at full speed, the just this one site would produce enough test consumables to rescale the graph above). Giroir however has stopped touting the scheduped fall increase in test capacity, which is also strange. I wonder if they sold them all already to private clients or the military or smth.

speaking of, the big university here cancelled its original plans to provide quarantine rooms for students traveling from 'highly affected states'. in press release university said after working out the numbers would exceed area hotel capacity. The start and end of the school year were always the peak demand seasons for hotels here, i think they wisely decided they don't want them in dorms or off campus sublets, both of which have space. off campus student neighborhood is a ghost town, every other house has a for rent sign. Under the circumstances, I'm taking that as a positive. also the university is doing its own testing, set up a lab in house.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 10 2020 12:37 utc | 122

@ PeterAU1

Good point about the five eyes vs. the world. They more and more seem to stick together like a mini criminal gang. Of course you should probably add the other "I," Israel, which certainly pulls above its weight in evil. And since these all seem to stick together and provide yes-men support for each other, maybe we should coin a new term: The Six Ayes.

Posted by: J Swift | Aug 10 2020 12:57 utc | 123

Posted by: vk | Aug 10 2020 12:25 utc | 126

Always delightful and funny to see traitors go into sore loser mode whenever they get rejected by the same people they claim to defend.

Posted by: J W | Aug 10 2020 13:01 utc | 124

Statement by the High Representative Josep Borrell on the situation in the Eastern Mediterranean
Brussels, 09/08/2020 - 16:39, UNIQUE ID: 200809_3
Statements by the HR/VP

Latest naval mobilisations in Eastern Mediterranean are extremely worrying. They will not contribute to finding any solutions. On the contrary, they will lead to a greater antagonism and distrust. Maritime boundaries must be defined through dialogue and negotiations, not through unilateral actions and mobilisation of naval forces. Disputes must be solved in accordance with international law. The European Union is committed to help solving such disputes and disagreements in this area of vital security interest. As the High Representative for EU’s Common Foreign and Security Policy, I will deploy all efforts necessary to re-establish such a dialogue and to facilitate re-engagement. The present course of action will not serve the interests neither of the European Union, nor of Turkey. We have to work together for the security in the Mediterranean.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 10 2020 13:16 utc | 125


I knew you could do it!

my poems seem to be getting more obscene as the clown show gets more absurd. here's another one to highlight what I'm talking about:


partisans in masks
will do most anything
to smear opposition
like guilt associating

first, find a nut
a doctor tied to Trump
who claims fucking demons
makes cysts appear on cunts

it’s such an easy trick
what can skeptics do?
any energy spent
means they win, you lose

so mask up, motherfuckers
there’s nothing you can say
accept their fabric dogma
or die like Herman Cain

Posted by: lizard | Aug 10 2020 13:26 utc | 126

@ J Swift

Don’t overlook Mark Rutte, PM of The Netherlands, friend of Donald, policy look-alike with Boris Johnson, far better PR wizards to pull wool over the Ayes of the Dutch 😉

Dutch close partner Nine Eyes

#UkraineReferendum #MH17 #Islamophobic to win elections #KissA$$ #Atlanticist

Posted by: Oui | Aug 10 2020 13:29 utc | 127

vk @126
J W @129

The "regime changers" sticking to the script suggests that there is more to go with the operation.

uncle tungsten @111

I probably shouldn't worry, but I do hope the authorities in Belarus are as aware of the standard "color revolution" recipe as we are.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 10 2020 13:38 utc | 128

Just a few observations from the images available on the internet. The aerial views are evidence that the warehouse was a pre-engineered metal building (PEMB for search purpose). This type of building typically bolts together using pre-fabricated members. This type of building has main frames with purlins attached by bolts for the roof structure and roofing panels attached to the purlins with screws. Girts bolted together and to the main frames form the exterior frame and panels are screwed to the girts to form the exterior skin. Typically welding or a torch are needed when there is an error in the foundation that requires a main frame alignment to match the design or a change in the design after fabrication. Most repairs to this type of building exterior can be accomplished with mechanical tools without the need for welding.

The image of the men working at the door leaves the impression that the door had been left open for some time judging by the condition of the bags of material. The men appear to be working in a door portal. The panel on the right has a handle and a hasp and looks to be a sliding door hung from the top of the portal. There does not appear to be a track embedded in the concrete as a guide for the door. In the event that the door was not able to slide to the closed position there could be a irregularity in the concrete floor, a sag in the door frame or supporting portal or a combination of these factors. The bottom tolerance of the door is quite small. The tools in the image posted here at MOA would be useful in chipping away an irregularity in the concrete to allow the door to slide by. Chipping away the concrete floor would be the solution if the management position was "do something quick and cheap" and they had no idea about how the building was constructed. The door should be supported, the supporting carriage loosened the door realigned and the carriage retightend. Wrong man for the job? Very likely. Ignorance and imcompetence? Were human beings involved? Welding? Narrative? Investigation.

When the aerial view of what is left of the building with the grain silos on the left hand side of the frame there is one thing in the image that is puzzling. The left end of the remaining structure is bent away from the location of the blast. There is one bay in the remains where the main frame has been deformed in the direction of the blast on one side and the frame on the other side is deformed away from the blast. A thorough investigation should provide information about this condition.

There is no offer of a cause of the tragedy or speculation on the timing or circumstances. The narrative of the "welder" or "blacksmith" is not satisfying.

May every possible blessing come to the citizens of Beirut and Lebanon and may they be healed in every way.

Posted by: WC | Aug 10 2020 13:44 utc | 129

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2020 0:40 utc | 88

Thanks for doing the work the Wired “expert” should have done. This is why I read moa — because of b’s work and the researched commentary by more than a handful of people.

It’s tomato ripening season here so am busy with putting sunshine in the freezer for winter.

Posted by: suzan | Aug 10 2020 13:52 utc | 130

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 9 2020 21:46 utc | 63

I found the photo of the workmen with the clearly labeled bag of AN behind them almost too convenient. Who takes pictures of everyday work? And why was it immediately prominently splashed all over global media? No one has discussed the “clear liquid” running under the bags afaik, a repeated part of the photo narrative as though we are to make something of it.

Posted by: suzan | Aug 10 2020 13:59 utc | 131

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 9 2020 21:46 utc | 63

I found the photo of the workmen with the clearly labeled bag of AN behind them almost too convenient. Who takes pictures of everyday work? And why was it immediately prominently splashed all over global media? No one has discussed the “clear liquid” running under the bags afaik, a repeated part of the photo narrative as though we are to make something of it.

Posted by: suzan | Aug 10 2020 13:59 utc | 132

john the seahorse @Aug10 11:10 #123

Ammonium Nitrate requires a high energy initiator to detonate it i.e. TNT or dynamite. It doesn't blow because of a fire, or a welders torch.

WC @Aug10 13:44 #134

There is no offer of a cause of the tragedy or speculation on the timing or circumstances. The narrative of the "welder" or "blacksmith" is not satisfying.

Seems likely that the the small explosions prior to big one are not fireworks but blasting caps.

Did anyone notice that the "fireworks" were only white?

They were probably separated when the cargo was off-loaded. Someone wanted them to be brought together now. Someone who knew better. And then a fire happened. Immediately after.

Thus, it wasn't "welders" or "blacksmiths" in that photo (as Magnier claims) but just dumb workmen who do what their told without question. Magnier also claimed that the blacksmith & assistants were in custody.

They needed "fireworks" and "welders" to make a story for accidental fire. And they needed media to carry the story without question and an investigation that would be so quick that it would rubberstamp the cover story.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 14:03 utc | 133

Richard Steven Hack @Aug10 10:49 #122

No, it does not.

When you deny what is common knowledge, you lose all credibility.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 14:07 utc | 134

@ Posted by: Schmoe | Aug 10 2020 1:33 utc | 96

You just described why it is the West (capitalism) - and not China (socialism) - that is in greater troubles.

It is precisely the fact that technological breakthroughs stagnated that capitalism's profit rates are falling. Capitalism depends on periodical scientific-technolgical breakthroughs (Kondratiev Cycle) to save itself from collapse - otherwise, labor exploitation stagnates, which makes profits plummet.

We don't know yet how Kondratiev cycles exactly develop and operate, but it is estimated that on of those must happen every 75 years in order for capitalism to reproduce "healthily". Kondratiev cycles are probably the main cause for great (world) wars in capitalism.

China (socialism) is not that dependent on major scientific breakthroughs as capitalist economies. Sure, for geopolitical, historically specific reasons, it does need to close the gap with the major capitalist powers - but it's not an imperative for the socialist system. It can continue to develop with the already existing technology (for some decades) and focus on defending its unity against a capitalist charge.

Posted by: vk | Aug 10 2020 14:18 utc | 135

re: beirut welders sparks etc

IMO the many videos of what is described as fireworks in adjacent warehouse does looks like it also could be ammunition going off... lots of small flashes suggests to me maybe grenades/rpg rounds? opinions? I don't have the background to judge, but if so open door might be irrelevant and just a fig leaf to present a more friendly story.

this does not change the basic conclusions. 1: massive irresponsibility of leaving 2700 tons of ammonium nitrate there for years. 2: the whole sequence of events probably not on purpose 3: facility likely to be a trans shipment point of materials to other regional conflict areas not just Syria, little likelihood of any reporting of 'whose side' any off thr books arms/ammo might be etc.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 10 2020 14:20 utc | 136

vk | Aug 9 2020 17:52 utc | 22

A minor correction may be warranted...
The green movement also kicked off in Tasmania (in my birth year) of 1972 when the protest movement against the damming of Lake Pedder gained momentum.
So it appears that it was becoming a (small) part of the global zeitgeist in 1972, and not limited to Germany.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Aug 10 2020 14:26 utc | 137

I mentioned the tensions between Greece and Turkey in the last open thread and as of Friday, despite Merkel's intervention on behalf of Greece urging Turkey to give more time to diplomatic efforts to solve the growing tensions in EMed between Greece and Turkey, after Greece and Egypt's announcement of their maritime borders deal, Erdogan claimed that 'he can't trust them' and announced on Friday that the deal was invalid and that Turkey would go ahead with planned Oruc Reis exploration and naval drills.
The NavTex issued was claimed as invalid by Greece which will be approaching NATO later today.

Oruc Reis is already in the designated area and the drills will be carried out today and tomorrow.

Really not sure what Turkey hopes to gain, as it is abundantly clear that Turkey is on its own and becoming more and more isolated in all geopolitical matters. Is it really as simple as money? Turkey's lira is in trouble still, the Central Bank is not resolving the issue and the advice of economists falls on deaf ears while Erdogan and Albayrak stick stubbornly to their 'principles'. Everyone is planning for more lockdowns come September - maybe he is looking for financial support for that period?
Ali Babacan - ex- AKP and well respected, was on Fox today stating that the economy will not survive until 2023 - a key date for Erdogan and the current year of the next elections. So, pressure is high.

Here are a couple of articles outlining the issues.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 10 2020 14:31 utc | 138

@Lurk | 124
Turkey is certainly 'making noise' but you know what they say about barking dogs.
At the moment, I don't see this as too different from this years staged 'refugee wave' which was a futile attempt to reproduce the extortion we saw in 2015/16. A stop was put to it as soon as evidence was produced that Turkish Gendarme and Police were forcing refugees into conflict with Turkish border guards etc. TRT and other media outlets will of course give blanket coverage of non-events or we'll see more creative journalism - the antics we saw earlier this year were beyond comical in many cases!

As we have both mentioned in our posts, NATO will be involved as of Monday evening so we'll see what happens, if anything at all. I tend to think that it will peter out into nothing. The question is whether Erdogan will get his money or not!

On that note, does anyone know whether Qatar coughed up funds last month under the auspices of investing in the Kanal Istanbul project?

Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 10 2020 14:42 utc | 139

So, is Qualcomm a "fat cat"? Chip supplier Qualcomm seeks to avert ‘costly’ US ban on exports to Huawei – report vk @ 86

I believe Qualcomm would fit into the monopoly powered fatcat class. As I recall Qualcomm was involved in several high profile, cross border patent lawsuits. Except for their monopolies, many smaller firms, in many different countries, would be supplying qualcomm customers.
Patents and copyrights have blocked competition and Qaulcomm is among the many firms that are beneficiaries of monopoly powered blockades... Trumps blockades fail when there are no competing suppliers on his side of the ledger. Copyrights and patents deny competition even when it is needed. The profits a fat cat monopoly powered entity makes, would be distributed among those many competing smaller suppliers. Competition might even push Qualcomm out of business and replace the Qualcomm offerings with something better..

Posted by: snake | Aug 10 2020 14:44 utc | 140

Further to my previous comment and conspiracy-theorist | Aug 9 2020 18:38 utc | 24:

There was a congressman who raised concerns on the floors of congress over damage caused by land-clearing and the rise of chemical fertiliser use in the late 19th century.
The name escapes me, but I remember it was referenced on the spoken-word album: "I Blow Minds For a Living" by Jello Biafra (c.1990).

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Aug 10 2020 14:52 utc | 141

RSH @ 122
The fact is Richard, Jackrabbit has about 100 times the credabilty that you do.
I think this particular comment of yours only serves to confirm that fact. I sure the majority here would agree.
I’ll keep this short ! Where is the evedence you have to proof the Lebanon blast was an accident ? Crickets yet again.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 10 2020 14:55 utc | 142

lAND of lies

Head of the [[[five liars]]]
United snakes

Posted by: denk | Aug 10 2020 15:04 utc | 143


maybe there is an element of pipeline politics too. the golden rule is every conceivable route has major players backing local proxies to block it. turkey esp does not want to be bypassed as a transit player. it may have allies in this sense who would rather block routes from various combinations of syrya/lebanon/israel/egypt to EU.

in this case, i think turkey's claims are intended in part to block routes to greece, especislly via any part running from cyprus -> crete. blocking egypt to greece is done by the sea depth [map]

Posted by: ptb | Aug 10 2020 15:06 utc | 144

@ Mark2 | Aug 10 2020 14:55 utc | 147

Certainly you have no credibility at all, perhaps even negative credibility.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 10 2020 15:16 utc | 145

Here's an interesting and informative article on the Blue Homeland (Mavi Vatan) phenomenon in Turkey - it is also a reminder of how toxic Turkish internal politicis is - thankfully, the author introduces a degree of 'reality' in the last paragraph.

@ptb | 149
Yes, I fully agree. Many of AKP aligned 'talking heads' are talking about 'sharing' resources etc. But, Turkey's attitude of occupation and then 'dialogue' can only succeed so far - it's expensive! ... It's clear that Erdogan's plans in Syria are already being curtailed by financial constraints, have to wonder how far he can go here.

Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 10 2020 15:19 utc | 146

@122 motive and opportunity are speculative. you could use it to indict any number of actors. they aren't evidence in and of themselves. i don't know which of the two posters have more credility on moa, i'm more interested in the evidence. with say, epstain, you have copious opportunity (anybody who has a lot of money to buy guards and whoever runs the cameras", a clearly defined motive (anybody who was on epstein's island wants to hide that), and a necessity to act quickly. here, it looks like there was clearly an opportunity, but why why this and why now? doesn't have to be beyond a reasonable doubt evidence, but something solid is required.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 10 2020 15:24 utc | 147

"epstein" not "epstain". maybe it was a freudian typo :)

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 10 2020 15:25 utc | 148

donkeytale @Aug10 15:18 #151

I responded to RSH's assertion that there was no evidence for foul play.

He seems to think that means there's no reason for suspicion or investigation beyond the "accidental" theory.

I noted that motive and opportunity makes a circumstance case. His response: "No, it does not." LOL.

I've described the evidence for motive and opportunity over the last several days.

If you haven't been paying attention then you shouldn't comment.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 15:32 utc | 149

I hope bar patrons will not be so distracted by the food fight that they fail to take note of see my comment @Aug10 14:03 #138.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 15:37 utc | 150

arch bungle @ 107 left a video that i also suggest others watch, at least from the 3 minute mark when the prof from iran is speaking... - that is the link again...

regarding the rsh - jr back and forth... there is some truth in both positions... i call stalemate on making any strong conclusions on the beirut blast yet... i recommend the video to listen to the profs comments...

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2020 15:51 utc | 151

Excellent Global Times article details the latest Outlaw US Empire spy program, "The Hidden, Dirty Secrets Behind the US Clean Network Program," by breaking it down into its five main elements--an outstanding service for the global public! The author's preamble prior to listing the five components announces the twisting of the skewer:

"'Clean' as it claims, is the network really that clean? The US is the indisputable empire of hackers in the world. Corroborating evidence such as WikiLeaks, PRISM, the Equation Group and the Eye of Sauron confirms and exposes to everyone the constant surveillance from the US. What Pompeo and some other politicians have been doing is modelling charges against China on their own tainted histories. These people are so obsessed with the farce of 'thieves calling stop thief' that they can hardly see the reality." [My Emphasis]

Oh, those politicos know they're lying through their teeth as what they're doing is SOP--Standard Operating Procedure--that's been ongoing for 75+ years. Anyone foolish enough to believe anyone from the Outlaw US Empire regardless of the political party flavor sported on their suit jacket lapel is just that--a total fool ignoring a vast amount of publicly available evidence proving well beyond doubt the veracity of the author's charges. Surely barflies recall ECHELON, which predated the internet and was "installed" along with the web--when I was in the USAR, we did work for ECHELON on every one of our trainings, which is how I learned about it, and that was 40 years ago! Does Pompeo really think the world's as dumb as he is? The debunking of the five components is similar. Here's what is done to number four:

"Clean Cloud is just a cover for prohibiting Chinese companies, including Alibaba, Baidu and Tencent, from storing and processing the US citizens' personal information and businesses' intellectual property. The US wants to keep these from its foreign adversaries. However, the US is the real gangster of 'cloud theft'. The Washington Post exposed that the NSA, along with the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) of the UK, launched a surveillance program called Muscular to frequently break into the cloud servers of Google and Yahoo. They even went so far as to intercept data and direct it to the agencies' own database. This was how hundreds of millions of personal information records were collected."

Of the many condemnations, this one will suffice:

"With an appalling and notorious tapping record, the US has never justified its moves and even played double standards when accused of tapping. Everything the US stole is in the name of democracy and rule of law. Even worse, the US has never intended to reflect on its behavior and even smears China."

As I said, this article is an excellent Public Service Announcement and ought to be shared far and wide. Anyone can fact check it and discover that the Chinese writer is telling the truth when as usual Outlaw US Empire officials are lying big time along with BigLie Media.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2020 16:10 utc | 152

Sloppy, sloppy: the latest UK Russian hacker story debunks itself: documents reported in UK media two days before “Russian hackers” “hacked” them!
LOL, those phony British Media Bums...

Reminiscence of the Future...
Sunday, August 9, 2020

They Are At It, Again.
Politico few days ago published a piece on Russia. This piece, written by a host of US foreign policy "luminaries" who pass in the US for Russia "experts", because they once visited Moscow and ate
pelmeni in the neighborhood Russian restaurant, just think that they have a capacity to offer anything on the subject of destroyed Russian-American relations. They start with classic US globalist tropes:.... blah, blah, blah....

Just a few excerpts...

While laboring through this exhibit A of the American delusional strategic
thinking, or rather lack thereof, and incompetent arrogance, we finally arrive
to a key point in this piece:
The success of U.S.-China policy will in no small measure depend on whether the
state of U.S.-Russia relations permits three-way cooperation on critical issues.
Our current policies reinforce Russia’s readiness to align with the least
constructive aspects of China’s U.S. policy. Moving the needle in the opposite
direction will not be easy, but should be our objective.
Ah, that is warmer. I have some news for these "giants" of American foreign
policy and "academe". Let me explain:

1. The United States has already lost economic "war" to China. Even considering
the fraud which US economic numbers are, China's economy dwarfs that of the US,
not least because of the fact that the actual size of US economy is much much
smaller than the US likes to pretend.

2. Russia has zero reasons to view the United States as a viable negotiating
partner. US share in Russia's trade is minuscule and Russia shed most of her US
Treasuries. In other words, the US has very little or no value economically for
Russia. The only way the United States is making herself noticeable for Russia
is through bullying and blackmailing nations which have serious economic
relations with Russia.

3. China is a huge market for Russia's hydrocarbons, high value added
petrochemical products, weapons, food, and potentially huge aerospace market.
Russia is keenly interested in having a stable, prosperous and friendly China
next to her. This contradicts dramatically with the US objectives and that
explains a natural, organic emerging alliance between Russia and China. Plus,
for the authors of the piece, it is 2020, boys and girls, not 1970s.

4. US has nothing to offer Russia. Zilch, nada, zero. !!!!!!! As I write for years, the US doesn't have enough geopolitical currency "to buy" Russia. Russia could have been a friend and ally for the United States and vice-versa, but as Pat Buchanan noted more than 4 years ago:
The Russian people, having extended a hand in friendship and seen it slapped
away,.... in a disaster combinaton named Boris Jelzin and Mr. Summer from the
USA, who wrecked their country such thoroughly to achieve the highest suicide
numbers ever "recorded" and the fall of the average lifetime-span to 55 years,
statistically,,, during the 90s,,,, and a manifest of utter greedful delusions and indeed,
incompetence !!!!

You ought ot read this blog entry.... and the comments..... so true really, reallly embarrassingly SAD & TRUE...

Arctic_Fox • 8 hours ago
Three months before US elections... These people are all auditioning for jobs in what they hope
(indeed... expect) will be a Biden administration. They look forward to nice govt paychecks & travel
allowances, with a career-enhancing title and perhaps even a wood-paneled office in some handsome old building in Washington.
Here's another view of the scrum...
Ooooh... They can't wait. They can taste the plum pudding. From their anticipated positions, they will give "policy addresses" instead of writing tawdry crap for magazines that few people read, or stooping to teach classes to student-drones in some graduate program...
Nothing like the bait of position & power to draw out the wannabes... It's pathetic.

Dillon Francis Arctic_Fox • 6 hours ago
You seem to think Biden will lose? 6 months ago I would have agreed with you. Now it seems too close to call.

grrr Dillon Francis • 5 hours ago
It might be even worse: Trump wins, but Congress (both houses) will turn dems.

cdvision grrr • 5 hours ago
I don't think it matters who wins. The body politic is hopelessly split. And full of incapables. Short of a literal night of the long knives where the opposition (whichever side) is completely destroyed, then the split will only widen and deepen. More of the same, but only worse. And whatever the result, it will carry the stink of fraud.

Dillon Francis grrr • 5 hours ago
That can easily happen. But many on dissident right think it will be senate remains republican, biden wins.
"USA, who wrecked their country such thoroughly to achieve the highest suicide
numbers ever "recorded" and the fall of the average lifetime-span to 55 years,
statistically,,, during the 90s,,,, and a manifest of utter greedful delusons and indeed,incompetence !!!!"
What a horrible wonderful deed..... like Leni Riefenstahl...
And again, again & again utter incompetence on display from Russia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan,Syria, Lybia, Palestine... and now big, old, great CHINA and even to the buddy-buddy tyrant-state of Saudi Arabia.... Apartheid Israel and inbetween the AMERICAN FINANCIAL CRISIS burning the
world and AMERICAN HIV which've been on the killing spree ever since to reach more than 26 million human beings all around the globe.
Congratulation !!!!!

Arctic_Fox Dillon Francis • 3 hours ago • edited
Dillon... I'll make a prediction... Trump will win re-election... (And maybe I'll be wrong... Time will tell.) But it is very much up in the air. Trump will make a strong campaign... And Trump is his own worst enemy... We'll see. Biden is a total waste of a nomination, if you want a real, live "candidate."

But that's not what his handlers want... They want/need/require a sock-puppet who will do as he's told. On his best days, Biden was never much of a brainiac... Just an instinctive political animal, whose style is very much a "trail of dead bodies" (figuratively, although let him make issues of war & peace and we'll have the real thing there too.) He has all manner of "tough guy" issues... I'm no
medical pro (have to say that) but... Biden is fading fast. He's just plain aging before everyone's' eyes. I think that party elders thought that Biden could keepup appearances until November... They were wrong. Put Biden under the lights and he'll melt.
Meanwhile, the cheating machine is gearing up... Vote fraud will be legion. It's astonishing... In a world where tech can keep a list of everyone, everywhere, all the time... and track your location down to about 12 centimeters... Thatwe'llhave no freaking idea "who" is voting, and how many
times. Then again, that's by someone's choice too.

Laurent Parodi • 8 hours ago
I have started to believe that the only way to explain the behaviour of the US elite is that the US elite believes its own propaganda which is very dangerous because it is impossible to take good decisions if you believe your own propaganda.
Globals times a Chinese news paper called pompeo the new goebbels a few month ago. I don t think the Chinese are wrong.

Ronnie&MargaretInDementia Laurent Parodi • 7 hours ago • edited
I agree with everything you say but I would change the word propaganda for the word bullshit (please forgive my crudeness) Propaganda, the good stuff, always has some basis in reality, something that people can relate to in some way, it is then twisted and deformed, bastardised and reformed to be fed to the many to shape their views in a way that is agreeable for the ruling classes.

With America the starting point, their 'truth' is completely delusional, it simply isn't real in any sense, America has become a fiction, a bunch of stories and myths it tells itself (ad nauseum) about itself. How can Russia deal with a country that cannot even comprehend its own reality? It's 1985 in the US, that is how they perceive themselves still, Russia and China (and some others) are firmly ensconced in the 21st Century and this is why they cannot deal with a bunch of ever ageing has beens (like Biden who never really 'made it') who are incapable of making agreements based in some form of reality never mind sticking to them.

muIvica Repic Laurent Parodi • 8 hours ago
Actually, they beleve in their own hubris and nonsense!They believe in it allot!

fasteddiez Laurent Parodi • 7 hours ago
This over-inflates Plumpeo's creds by a whole bunch, no. 1 student in his class, West Point 86' notwithstanding. I read a piece on herr Goebbels some years back in which he told his underlings "whatever you do, do not believe your own propaganda."

azanjac • 6 hours ago
It's gonna get worse. What's good is that Russia stopped paying attention a while back and cares nothing to appease these clowns. China is following suit, and more and more nations around the world are waking up to this, colonies too.
But it will get worse, Belorussia is on the verge of getting sacked. Lukashenkohas lost his ability to govern. Last year it was Bolivia. The hegemon is still harvesting souls. Let's see how far can it get, will it ever manage to provoke Russia? I'm expecting anti Russian hysteria to reach new heights in the next few years.

cdvision • 6 hours ago • edited
Smoothie: you have to stop reading this shit; its not good for your health.
PS how's the book coming? You must have to re-write it every day there is so much crazy stuff happening.

muIvica Repic • 9 hours ago
Americas reason for a ,,life,, is to hawe enemy under ewery closet, bed and tree! Symply , America cant liwe without enemy, that is in their DNA,long ago are forgotten times when Russian fleet come to the rescue to a young republic!

Vasya Pypkin muIvica Repic • 2 hours ago
That's because USA really never had real enemy to cure USA from this mental disorder once and for all. Hence non stop search for troubles.

mulvica Repic • 9 hours ago
And what is new concerning american politics toward Russia and China?Exactly nothing! Same old, same old (shit!)

Rob Naardin • 6 hours ago
Millions of prayers for over a 100 years asking God for vengeance for America's crimes. Someone kept a ledger of America's lust for power.

Posted by: Ashino | Aug 10 2020 16:29 utc | 153

"The Maidan has failed":

"'The protests were clearly provocative and said nothing about the unreliability ... There were no troubles. The authorities worked very urgently and accurately. The Maidan attempt has failed,' Melnichenko said."

As predicted, no repeat of Ukraine was allowed. "Lukashenko has said that the United Kingdom, Poland, and the Czech Republic were behind the protests that took place on Sunday evening." And the predictable EC protest was tweeted by its head: "Harassment & violent repression of peaceful protesters has no place in Europe." IMO, Belarus by its numerous affiliations is now part of Eurasia and doesn't recognize any form of European jurisdiction over its affairs. It saw what that same Europe did to Ukraine and wants nothing to do with such savages.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2020 16:32 utc | 154

@151 james
thanks for the video link, thanks. i second the recommendation.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 10 2020 17:20 utc | 155

@ 156 ptb... thanks.. it is worth it for others to watch...

@153 ashino... most everyone here knows how to access andreis site... i don't understand why you posted all that.... just give a link and make your comment in relation to it, to tell us why you think it is important... thanks..

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2020 17:37 utc | 157

Just finished watching this week's Renegade Inc episode which is all about our currency crisis. Here's host Ross Ashcroft's intro:

"It was the biblical economist Norm Franz who said 'Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves.'

"We are living through one of the greatest monetary experiments in modern history where monetizing debt is enslaving millions."

The first guest is economist and writer David Morgan who was featured in the Four Horsemen documentary that I still insist be watched despite its being 8 years-old. Right at the start, Morgan points out that the currency debasement we're going through has actually been ongoing for over 100 years. He uses the baseline year of the Federal Reserves enactment--1913--when the dollar was worth 100 cents whereas today by the Fed's own admission those 100 cents have shrunk to two and one-half--2.5--cents. Morgan points out that gold is the obvious hedge, but you must take physical possession of whatever metal hedge you choose, not the exchange paper representatives. But at $2,000/oz and climbing, gold is likely out-of-reach of most people. Coinflation currently shows the US silver nickel as being the best in terms of % over face value--3282.43%--or $1.6412 as silver is poised to break $30/oz. This site has other nations silver coin melt values. The entirety of Morgan's interview is worth listening to, which takes the first 13 or so minutes of the program. The second halves guest interview is plagued by poor audio, but he echoes much of what Morgan had to say and IMO can be skipped.

Perhaps the most effective tool people can construct within their community is their own local currency based upon their labor--an idea which has proven itself and is actually employed in various cities within the Outlaw US Empire. The calm exterior demeanor of Ross and his guest shouldn't fool anyone into being complacent about this currency crisis regardless of where on the planet they reside.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2020 18:14 utc | 158

"Ammonium Nitrate requires a high energy initiator to detonate it i.e. TNT or dynamite. It doesn't blow because of a fire, or a welders torch.
Posted by: john the seahorse | Aug 10 2020 11:10 utc | 123"

Sometimes it does:

Posted by: Trond | Aug 10 2020 18:43 utc | 159

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2020 5:52 utc | 103
Posted by: james | Aug 10 2020 15:51 utc | 151

Thanks Peter and james for surfacing that very interesting piece from Mirandi. Notable points:

1. This is the first mention of the possibility (AFAIK) that certain groups may be infiltrating the protests in order to erase what may turn out to be evidence in the Port investigation (or others ... ?)

(This to me suggests that certain parties in the Lebanese government may need to take care to protect documentary evidence during the upcoming chaos ... depending of course ...)

2. Mirandi seems emphatic about the port having no Hezbollah connection connection whatsoever, and makes a series of statements which if followed up would allow concrete verification of that claim (e.g checking the political afilliation of the port master, checking with the various consulates in the area for presence or dominance of Hezbollah there).

While documentary evidence would have been nice, Mirandi does make it obvious that checking who dominates the port politically is a simple matter and need not be the domain of rumour.

(Why do I harp on this string? ... A survey of the MSM media narrative indicates repeated claims and insinuations of Hezbollah being in control of the Port or responsible in one way or another for the contents stored there. I think this narrative needs to be loudly challenged with the facts to avoid concealing the real scoundrels behind this atrocity)

Amusements and condiments:

3. Mirandi seems to be countering the interviewers (apparently anti-Hezbollah) stance by reminding him that his own (ANC) government was considered a terrorist movement by the same entities that now denounce Hizbullah as one.

4. I find it odd, as a South African, that the State Broadcaster would follow a line of questioning which is so biased against a balanced view of the Lebanese conflict and in line with the Western MSM line of analysis, but then maybe that's just me. It feels like the interviewer was provided with a deliberate line of questioning and told to stick to it even though Mirandi addressed them multiple times (adequately in my opinion).

(Why do I "find it odd, as a South African"? Because the (new) S.A government has traditionally been pro Iran, Pro Palestinian resistance, anti-Zionist ... So the tone set by the interviewer seems to represent a change in narrative complexion from what I've been used to over the decades ... what has changed in our media-political climate recently, I wonder ...)

Some homework:

a) List the documented management employees of the Port in a table with three columns: [Name][Known political afiliation] [Date of Appointment]

b) Analyse the demographics of the Beirut port area along Religious lines, Ethnic group, international afilliations ( presence of international aid organisations or foreign missions). Excel spreadsheet please.

c) Analyse (experimentally if possible) the similarities between a fireworks storage explosion and a light munitions storage explosion. Obtain spectral information if possible. Compare with any spectral information
that may be available from satellite or surveillance footage. Analyse the audio frequencies produced by both types of explosions (Apply Fourier Analysis for extra credit)

d) Based on c) conclude whether the ostensible fireworks explosion was truly that or something else ...

e) Based on c) determine if any other explosives were involved other than what may be classified as "fireworks", "light munitions" or Ammonia based fertilizer precursors ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 10 2020 18:53 utc | 160

Re Turkish idiocy in the Mediterranean - I would not be surprised if it turns out to be an attempt to close the Bosporus to Russian shipping and supplies to Lebanon and Syria.

Erdoghan will always obey the instructions from the west.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2020 19:06 utc | 161

@ Arch Bungle | Aug 10 2020 18:53 utc | 161... thanks arch.. as i have said before - hezollah is the default position for blame from the empire... the reality and truth matter not... the narrative will be spun accordingly.. that is a given.... all other narratives which may be much more fact based, like prof mirandis comments in the link you shares - will be shunned intentionally.. that is just the way the present msm is set up and run... convincing vacuous minds is easy.. in the end it matters not what the masses think.. it matters the reality on the ground and of course the truth matter ultimately too, in spite of the disneyland narratives that will be on every corner...

hopefully those in some position of power within lebannon are acting on your suggestions.. that would be most helpful!

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2020 19:23 utc | 162

Suzan @ 132
Thanks for you comment and excellent points. You have what we need at the moment an ‘inquiring mind’ not prepared to just accept things at face value but dig deeper and ask awkward unpopular questions, we need all the help we can get here.
Put it this way, would the Lebanese dead and injured want us to ask awkward questions ? Beyound doubt - yes.
Up thread I wanted proof the welders photo was taken on the day of the blast ! Answer came there none.
To answer your question - who would want to take such a photo? Of course a perpetrator looking for a fake ‘accIdent’ narrative !
Hope ya toms go well. I’m just pressing 🍏 for winters bottled apple juice.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 10 2020 19:27 utc | 163

@uncle tungsten | 162
The 'Crazy' Canal Istanbul project while currently being little more than a source of income via real-estate investments and subsequent sales to Arabs, is seen by many as an attempt to bypass the Montreaux Convention which strictly regulates the passage of warships. It's said that the purpose of such a canal would be to allow the US to take control of the Black Sea - Ambitious indeed!
Who knows.
At the moment it is, as I said, a source of valuable income from Arabs - Qatar may have 'invested' in the project again just last month - and if it came to fruition it would be a source of income for freight transit as well if the Bosphorous is closed.

But, if I remember rightly, the 'Crazy Project' was first proposed in 2011 and so far we've only seen parcels of land swap hands at ever increasing pries and for ever increasing profit.

Posted by: AraBrit | Aug 10 2020 19:35 utc | 164

The Lebanese Army, @LebarmyOfficial, has published a communiqee...Important! as this could send a fake message on a fake division amongst the military which currently is not happening...beware of coupist shenanigans...remember fake news about Venezuelan Army FANB officials rebbeled against legitimate authority who were not...

The army publishes a statement prohibiting retired military personnel from wearing military uniforms, any type of army accessory or emblem under penalty of legal action. It occurs after veterans take over the foreign ministry.

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 10 2020 19:52 utc | 165


That was a good interview.

Non-western countries, and the people in them, are not swallowing the propaganda narrative spun by Western media. It's clear the propaganda is meant to keep the dumb, self-centered Western public asleep. The sheeple willingly go softly into that good nite.

@ Arch Bungle @Aug10 18:53 #161

I understand that only four days have been allowed for investigation and determination of guilt.

Its likely that the "investigation" is only meant to rubber-stamp the bogus narrative: 10-year old fireworks lit by a "welder"/"blacksmith" make no sense but sound plausible to a gullible western public.

Those responsible for this explosion do not want the truth known.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 20:44 utc | 166

Full resignation speech by Lebanese PM Diab denouncing total obstruction by the forces of corruption to make any change in Lebanon..

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 10 2020 20:45 utc | 167

Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 20:44 utc | 167.. thanks jr... i can't see how 4 days is enough time to come up with much of anything, not to mention the fact the youth are burning the paper trail via their vandalism the past few days.... obviously those responsible don't want the truth to come out! whether that be lebanese mafia or outside players - that is obviously a given as well!! i am glad you got to see that interview..

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2020 20:52 utc | 168

BBC video beginning of fire h/t Quentin Sommerville

After studying the layout of docks and warehouses, I must suggest this is warehouse #11.
In first frame one sees a ship on dockside and at 0:14 the sign on the gate next to the red container reads warehouse #11.
The location of video is between warehouse and grain silo.

Confusion point of entry/gate 9 at warehouse 12 and error in initial reports NY Times of fire in warehouse 9.

Tweet by Elijah Magnier

Magnier’s “welders” or blacksmith with hammers and chisel worked on warehouse 12.

Posted by: Oui | Aug 10 2020 20:56 utc | 169

H.Schmatz @Aug10 20:45 #168

Thanks H. Schmatz.

You're updates on the attempted color revolution in Lebanon have been timely and insightful.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2020 21:20 utc | 170

Arch Bungle 165

Research the cloud of red smoke. Go through videos frame by frame to see what occurred prior to each explosion. There are videos of burning vehicles in Yemen with ammunition going off. The are videos of burning ammo dumps in Ukraine.
I initial though it sabotage or an attack of some sort, but after checking all the videos, the only unknown is how the fire started.
Idiots like Schmatz and Mark2 have a religious belief that it was an attack that has nothing to do with reality.

It comes down to who flicked a cigarette but or spark into the building and if it was accidental or deliberate. Lebanon is like Russia of the 90's or Ukraine. An accident waiting to happen.
The fire burnt slowly for some time before reaching to fireworks then the AN. For anyone intent on sabotage, that is not a sure way of blowing it up.
That is why Nasrallah says - regardless of how the fire started, it was the Lebanese themselves that through incompetence and corruption allowed this disaster to happen. Nassrallah's main interest is seeing those responsibly for putting that dangerous mix there and then keeping them there caught and punished.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2020 22:38 utc | 171

james@151 Thank you for reposting the link you gave earlier. I finally had time to watch the video and I would join you in recommending it highly. I think the entire video is important, even if one watches it as I did not understanding the points being made by the Professor in the second part. It is good to have approached the whole narrative not knowing what is being shown, after which Professor Marandi's links to the South Africa experience can be contextually understood.

I'm grateful for the way in which obvious facts can override misperceptions, and thanks also to karlof1 and others for the focus on Belarus, as well as other 'color revolution' attempts worldwide. We have learned a lot since those early terrible days in Odessa and Kiev. It can never be erased from our memories as peoples.

I'll just see if I can put your link here again, james. Thank you.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 10 2020 22:51 utc | 172

New high-res video of the Beirut blast:

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 10 2020 23:37 utc | 173

A devastating economic report released today calls the US Dollar--having dropped 97.5% of its value since 1913 as reported above--overvalued! Rob Scott of the Economic Policy Institute was the report's main author said the following and more:

"'The Trump administration has taken credit for 'reshoring' manufacturing jobs, but the data show that isn't true. Nearly 1,800 factories have disappeared under Trump between 2016 and 2018,' Scott said in a statement. Overall, Scott found, the U.S. has lost over 91,000 manufacturing plants and nearly five million manufacturing jobs since 1997. The country also experienced a net loss of plants ever year between 1998 and 2018, the last year for which data are available." [My Emphasis]

Yes, that report indicts Biden as well, but he isn't currently lying about his job performance. The item provides a chart of US manufacturing jobs from 2010-2020, which were on a fairly steady if extremely mediocre rising trend until Trump's Trade War began followed by his disastrous non-response to the COVID Crisis. The chart preceding that one showing the number of manufacturing plants and jobs lost since 1998 is truly devastating for supporters of Neoliberalism such as Trump and Biden.

The awful truth many don't want to know is Trump's been a massive disaster for almost everyone within the Outlaw US Empire. Yet his faithful who've lost their home, job, healthcare, relatives to COVID, and decency will still vote for him and protect him from those who want to hang him for his Treason.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 11 2020 0:02 utc | 174

Don't know if this info got posted or not, so here goes:

Doomsday Clock ought to read just a few seconds till midnight as Russia announces:

"'Any attacking missile will be perceived as carrying a nuclear warhead,' the article said. 'The information about the missile launch will be automatically relayed to the Russian military-political leadership, which will determine the scope of retaliatory action by nuclear forces depending on the evolving situation.'" [My Emphasis]

It ought to be noted the article was published in Russian just prior to the Color Revolution attempt at usurping the Belarus election. Putin is now playing Hardball in case that wasn't already understood.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 11 2020 0:16 utc | 175

PeterAU1 @ 172
What day was that photo of the welders taken ?
Time of day ?
Who took the photo ?
Why was it taken?
Why was it not distroyed in the blast ?
Who released it onto the internet ?
I may be a pain in the butt, but I’m no idiot! Trust me.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 11 2020 0:26 utc | 176


Russia's response to any missile launch, is I think the reason Trump has not started a war.

An interesting piece here from Magnier's latest on Lebanon.
"The US “maximum pressure” on the “Axis of the Resistance”, mainly Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, has not achieved the desired result. The US has failed in its attempt to subdue Lebanon and has managed to push its allies, mainly European, to find more ways to distance themselves from US dominance."

US coalitions are now narrowing down to purely five-eyes and depending on the target country the odd opportunist for that specific target.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 0:39 utc | 177

Professor Marandi, in the excellent interview cited above by several commenters, did mention that the explosion is being investigated by "the military". I await further news on this.

Nasrallah said that the army should investigate, and he said that it wouldn't take long to perform such an investigation. Right now I have no news to say whether what is happening accords with Nasrallah's recommendations or not. I also don't know about the government resigning, beyond its happening because the corruption is "larger than the state and systemic".

So obviously, more news is yet to come. I'm far less focused on what caused the explosion and far more focused on whether Lebanon will itself explode from this crisis of governance. It is precisely a crisis, and Nasrallah has foreshadowed that there can be no cover-up and return to the old corrupt ways.

If the elected government has stepped down citing impenetrable stonewalling from the corrupt establishment - and if the military, as Schmatz reports (thanks!), is fighting to control its corrupt veterans who are part of the muscle for this establishment - then obviously, from the Lebanese patriot's point of view, that corrupt establishment has to go.

This is the crisis that Lebanon exists in, and this is how Nasrallah has explained it. There can be no going back.

Having said this, nor need anyone expect overnight changes - this is not Hollywood, where instant results occur, but a real people, large enough to constitute a nation, and one that at one time was part of Syria, before the last imperialist "redistricting". So the dynamics are potent, and the future is not yet here.

We await events.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 11 2020 0:56 utc | 178

Lurk @Aug10 23:37 #174

high-res video


10s Sound of "fireworks" begins

20s An explosion occurs

21-27s "Fireworks" going off in the air

40s "Fireworks" start going off in warehouse again

46s First flames visible (from a distance)

54s Ammonium Nitrate explodes

  • "fireworks": small explosions and/or flashes of light that are generated by small explosions

    The "fireworks" appear to be uniform and in color, intensity, and function. Wouldn't one expect commercial fireworks to vary in color and intensity? Wouldn't at least some of the fireworks be propelled before they "pop"? That leads me to speculate that the "fireworks" could be blasting caps.

    My speculation is further informed by the fact that this cargo's destination was "Fabrica de Explosivos in Matola, Mozambique."

    And also by the sheer nonsense that easily salable commercial fireworks would sit in a warehouse for 10-years.

IMO The fact that the fire was burning for some length of time before the "fireworks" started doesn't tell us much. If this was sabotage/deliberate then the fire was a distraction. Put another way, there HAD to be fire beforehand to provide a the cover story.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 0:57 utc | 179

Grieved "We await events.'

That's about it. Nasrallah has given a fairly clear picture of the situation, and one way or another, good or bad, a game changer to whatever extent.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 1:31 utc | 180

@ Grieved # 179 who ended with
So the dynamics are potent, and the future is not yet here.

We await events.

I encourage you and others to look at the future as being here in places but not evenly distributed....

And the events aren't waiting for anyone as they cascade over the waterfall of time and tell the river of humanity which way to flow.....we wait, if at all, for the reporting of such reading of flow.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 11 2020 1:47 utc | 181

Grieved @Aug11 0:56 #179

Professor Marandi ... did mention that the explosion is being investigated by "the military"

Marandi doesn't seem to have the full story. The military has some involvement but they are not in charge, as explained by Wikipedia:

The government formed an investigation committee led by the prime minister, Hassan Diab, which will submit its findings to the Council of Ministers of Lebanon by 11 August. The committee includes the justice, interior and defence ministers, and the head of the top four security agencies: the Army, General Security, Internal Security Forces, and State Security. The investigation is to examine whether the explosion was an accident or due to negligence, and if it was caused by a bomb or another external interference. President Aoun rejected calls for an international probe despite demands from world leaders.

On 5 August, the Council agreed to place 16 Beirut port officials who had overseen storage and security since 2014 under house arrest, overseen by the army, pending the investigation into the explosions. As of 8 August, the director-general of Lebanon's customs authority Badri Daher, and 20 other people were arrested, with investigations still ongoing.

So their report is due tomorrow and the findings are limited to accident, negligence, or "external interference" (bomb/missile). Intentional sabotage is already ruled out. Thus, the investigators have probably not been allowed access to materials that might lead in that direction like payments to off-shore accounts of government officials.

I think this is why the government resigned. The four-day investigation is a stitch-up. The terms of their mandate, and the time-frame provided, don't allow them much room to investigate and if they rule "accident" it seems like a cover-up, while if they rule "negligence" they implicate themselves (because they've been in power for many months).

I'm far less focused on what caused the explosion and far more focused on whether Lebanon will itself explode from this crisis of governance.

Well, "impenetrable stonewalling from the corrupt establishment" AND "military ... fighting to control its corrupt veterans who are part of the muscle for this establishment" are strange in light of the devastation. If the explosion were an accident, one would expect that the establishment would be humbled ... instead, they appear to be emboldened.

Isn't the four-day investigation with a mandate that limits the conclusion is a indicator that the explosion was planned/arranged?

<> <> <> <> <>

I'm pessimistic about Lebanon's prospects for avoiding a civil war => proxy war.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 2:06 utc | 182


My take from what Nassrallah has been saying is that he is more focused on an internal investigation. Something along the lines of 'who needs enemies with friends like these?'. All about getting their own house in order before looking for external enemies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 2:18 utc | 183

@184 Peter AU1

My take from Nasrallah is the same, but also larger. Not only getting one's house in order but deciding how to build a new house if necessary. It's worth reading the full transcript if you haven't already. He's saying that this is the time for Lebanon to show if it is capable of being a state or not.

Nasrallah is saying that if Lebanon can't be a true state - if the corruption in place prevents real government, as the resignation of this elected government now states is the case - then the people of Lebanon must essentially go their own way. If the state has failed, then the people must fend for themselves, and sort out for themselves how they will govern themselves, and as what entity.

These are huge words from Nasrallah, with vast implications. He is saying that if the state of Lebanon cannot punish those responsible for this disaster, then the people owe nothing any more to the state of Lebanon.

Where will they go, the people? What will they do? I suggest that Hezbollah has plenty of ideas about that - but each step in its time.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 11 2020 2:42 utc | 184

Is P R China still a developing country - although having the world's 2nd largest GDP by nations?
Yes according to China's WTO status which puts it on par with Central Africa.
This blocks many Western imports legally plus oils Chinese exports to the hilt by law.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 11 2020 2:50 utc | 185

PeterAU1, Grieved

You're both right but Grieved is more right in that he understands the wider scope of Nasrallah's concerns.

PS I highly recommend Grieved's superb comment about Nasrallah's speech at theSaker site. I couldn't be more impressed with Grieved's thoughtfulness and clear expression.

Nasrallah seems to understand the situation very well. Including the possibility that the explosion was deliberately arranged to 'kick off' a color revolution and civil war. Something that he hints at by saying that now is not the time to discuss such things!


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 2:59 utc | 186


I read through what Nasrallah says on the investigation, and he is very focused on internal investigation - finding those that are corrupt and criminally negligent. These are not just responsible for the explosion, but also of stripping the economy.

My thought is Lebanon cannot go forward until it has done this and that is what Nasrallah is focused on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 3:14 utc | 187

Daily Mail has photos of the Ammonium Nitrate stored inside the warehouse

Pictures shared by Lebanese journalist Dima Sadek show the 'death bags' containing high-density ammonium nitrate piled up in Beirut's ill-fated Warehouse 12 shortly before the explosion

Photo 1: The ceiling is high and looks to have openings for ventilation.

Photo 2: The sides of the ware house have windows, many of which are open - some may be broken.

<> <> <> <>

The pics show large bags of AN placed in a haphazard way in mostly two layers. They are rather dusty as one might expect from years of storage. I didn't see a date for the photos. When were they taken and why?


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 3:24 utc | 188

Peter AU1 @Aug11 3:14 #188

I agreed with you.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 3:25 utc | 189

A section of Nassrallah's speech.

"Therefore, I call on State officials, at all levels and in all authorities, to show the utmost seriousness and determination, whether to complete the investigation or to judge and blame, and chastise all those responsible for this tragedy. This is required so that the leaders and the political forces can give hope to the Lebanese people that there are authorities, a State and institutions, or at least that there is hope that a State be erected on the basis of truth, justice, transparency and the protection of the Lebanese, because sometimes the consequences of corruption, negligence and incompetence accumulate and become apparent after several years, and can be destructive, like what happened in this terrible event where in seconds, in a matter of seconds, tens of people were killed or missing, thousands were injured, hundreds of thousands of families were affected and had to leave their homes… And some people say that God prevented an even greater tragedy, and that if this hangar had not been so close to the sea, and without such and such peculiarities of the site, if this same amount of nitrate had exploded in a different geographic configuration, perhaps the whole city (of Beirut) would have been destroyed. All this in an instant, in a matter of seconds, because of corruption, neglect and incompetence, and no one should say it is simply because of the intricacies of the bureaucracy. Never. We are talking about stocks that could completely destroy the capital and certain suburbs (in an instant). The blame cannot be blamed on the intricacies of bureaucracy."

Everything Nasrallah has been saying is in this vein.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 3:26 utc | 190


Magnier posted those photos and more a few days ago. They come from the report that was put in that resulted in the maintenance work.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 3:29 utc | 191

No, no, no, no, no.

It's not even controversial anymore that the Beirut explosion was caused by a tactical nuclear missile fired from an Israeli jet at a Hezbollah missile depot in the port. But don't believe me.

Many sources inside Lebanese military and intel say that Israel fired a missile at a Hezbollah weapons depot.

Syrian intel says Israel fired an unknown weapon at a Hezbollah missile depot. The same weapon was fired by Israel on a plain in Syria a year ago. The explosions are shockingly similar.

Saudi and UAE intel both say that Israel attacked a Hezbollah missile depot in the port. They both say that Israel feels they screwed up badly because they did not expect the explosion to be so large.

Three Pentagon sources stated their opinion that the explosion was the result of some sort of an attack. As you can see they told Trump this too and he blabbed it.

Another Pentagon source said the explosion was caused by the sabotage of an arms depot.

The explosion was 50KT. 100X bigger than the Tainjin explosion and 2.5X larger than the Hiroshima blast. No, AN did not cause that blast. Also AN causes a huge yellow cloud when it blows up and this caused a brick red ball followed by a bright red cloud, typical of a lithium explosion. Lithium is used in rocket fuel. This would be expected after a rocket or missile store blew up.

The AN IAEA recorded a massive radiation spike in the Eastern Mediterranean at the time of this blast.

B and all of his commenters are completely blowing it on this story. They're falling for one of the biggest false flags on them all. Shame on all of you. Hopefully you will all knock it off soon and get some sense into your heads.

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Aug 11 2020 3:31 utc | 192

Grieved " He's saying that this is the time for Lebanon to show if it is capable of being a state or not."

That has also been my take on it. I feel a lot a big changes will start occurring rapidly, not just in Lebanon, but all through geopolitics. The attempted color revolution if that is what it was failed miserably, very few countries are backing five-eyes in their quest to retain dominance over China, Europe seems to be departing the US, perhaps as slowly as continents moving apart, but nevertheless less starting to show sparks of independence.
I think we are starting to see the fallout from the Trump administrations policies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2020 3:49 utc | 193

Perhaps I should have written this much earlier: Nasrallah needs to become the Sheriff and Moses at the same time. That's what Lebanon needs.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 11 2020 5:25 utc | 194

On 5 August, the Council agreed to place 16 Beirut port officials who had overseen storage and security since 2014 under house arrest, overseen by the army, pending the investigation into the explosions. As of 8 August, the director-general of Lebanon's customs authority Badri Daher, and 20 other people were arrested, with investigations still ongoing.

Taking bets on how long before those officials decide to commit synchronised suicide ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 11 2020 5:36 utc | 195

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Aug 11 2020 3:31 utc | 193

Maybe we should hear from someone who has a clue about these things, like Theodore Postol perhaps, and Ian Henderson. If Scott Ritter could get involved that would be trifecta.

Posted by: Arch | Aug 11 2020 5:49 utc | 196

Arch Bungle @Aug11 5:36 #196

Taking bets ...

Yup. We've seen this play before.

I was thinking the same a few days ago:

Next up?: the classic guilty-conscience suicide in police custody of the fall guy (the Port Director and a few others are now in custody).

Dead men tell no tales.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 5:50 utc | 197

Dr. Andrew Kaufman: COVID Reveals Pathology of Scientific Materialism & Need to (re)THINK Health

Posted by: Mao | Aug 11 2020 6:11 utc | 198

Adding to my comment @Aug11 5:50 #198

Actually more likely than suicide:

A couple of gunmen kill one or more port officials. The gunmen are killed by security services and subsequently linked to Hezbollah. Western media would declare that this PROVES that Hezbollah was responsible for the port explosion.

The Headline: Fearful of being exposed, Hezbollah silences port officials.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2020 6:23 utc | 199

=/ No, it [motive and opportunity] does not [make circumstantial evidence]. Evidence does. /= -- by R. S. Hack at 10:49

This trivial semantic issue has been derided by Jackrabbit at 14:07, and Mark2 at 14:55.

You have nothing better to do than argue semantic issues with R. S. Hack? Find something substantial to argue about, please.

Posted by: blues | Aug 11 2020 6:24 utc | 200

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