Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 02, 2020

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2020-61

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

> Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert. <

---
Other issues:

From the UCSF Grand Round video (~1:20 h) - Randomized controlled trials are the gold standard of testing pharmaceutical effectiveness. In six such trials given at various stages of Covid-19 Hydroxychloroquine showed none.


bigger

The NSA's favorite browser and network ...

Multiple Tor security issues disclosed, more to come - ZDnet

The 'anti-imperial' PKK Kurds ...

US oil company signs deal with Syrian Kurds - AL-Monitor

U.S. Civil War of 2020:

I’m in Minneapolis. First place I stop, most of the block is still boarded up. This grocery and tobacco store is owned by an Iranian, neighbor tells me. “They took everything.” Owner is deliberating whether to permanently close after the riots ... - Michael Tracey
Two months since the riots, and still no “National Conversation” - Michael Tracey
In Portland, some Black activists frustrated with white protesters - Reuters

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 2, 2020 at 13:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Michael Tracey: "Two months since the riots, and still no “National Conversation”"

There is no national conversation developing from the riots because there is nothing to talk about. The gated community latte-sippers are convinced that the problem is deplorable white working class men, and nothing can convince them otherwise. For the limo-liberals, the only point to conversation is to convince the deplorable white workers of the wrongness of their view of the world and the correctness of the view that one develops living in a gated community and serving the elites at a higher level of the capitalist hierarchy. As for the deplorable white workers, they think the snooty latte-sippers are out of touch with the real world, and they are right about that. Talk about imaginary genders, and Black murderers being the victims, and appreciation of femininity being misogyny just doesn't connect to the real world for the deplorable white workers. The deplorables understand that discussion can only go one way, so there is no point to having it.

Latte-sipper: "We need to be more sensitive to how the deplorables' pride prevents them from admitting that they are wrong!"
Deplorable: "Lady, is that projection?"
Latte-sipper: "Stop trying to belittle and insult me by calling me a lady, you deplorable misogynist!"
Deplorable: "I can't even talk to you!"

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 2 2020 14:21 utc | 1

I put these comments on the open thread about the same time b started this one

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1289724554982629377
The Kurdish-led Autonomous Administration of Northeast Syria signed a deal to market oil to US-based Delta Crescent Energy LLC “with the knowledge and encouragement of the White House.”

Trump a few months back "We've kept the oil". Well, he hasn't had a problem hanging onto it and getting an American company involved.

Delta Crescent Energy. Formed beginning of 2019 and nothing else on it. I guess Trump and a few mates divvying up the spoils.
https://www.bizapedia.com/de/delta-crescent-energy-llc.html

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 2 2020 14:35 utc | 2

“The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.

@b

So .... when are you going to update your post that suggests that Trump's inept response to the virus was just an innocent mistake?

Is Trump Finally Getting It?

A small early outbreak in Washington state was soon brought under control. Trump thought that the pandemic was not going to touch him.

<> <> <> <> <>

The NYTimes showed that the outbreak wasn't under control and the government didn't care. And the Trump Administration has made too many mistakes for anyone to give him and his Administration the benefit of the doubt. In fact, it appears much more likely that Trump deliberately allowed/wanted the virus to spread because doing so advances his neoliberal and Deep State agenda. Wall Street got a 'soft landing'; Boeing got a bailout; Big Pharma makes a bundle; and everything is blamed on China.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 14:36 utc | 3

Repeating:

More on the Trump Administration SUCCESS at spreading SARS-COV-19

A March 18th paper cited gastrointestinal symptoms like diarrhea as indicative of Covid-19. Up to 50% of those infect experience gastrointestinal problems and for many, it is the first symptom. It was widely reference in MSM like this one from Business Intelligence: Some coronavirus patients experience nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea before they get a fever. It could be one of the first signs of COVID-19.

But CDC didn't add GI symptoms as a possible early indicator of Covid-19 until early July: Nausea, diarrhea are now official symptoms of COVID-19: CDC - about 2 1/2 months later.

Why the delay? Who is responsible? US MSM apparently doesn't care to ask such questions.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 14:42 utc | 4

What stands in the way of conversation between exploited people of different races is the white noise of liberal nonsense, which, incidentally, seems to be growing exponentially because it never runs up against reality and its rasping frictions.
The national conversation about race needs to be short and simple: " All colours and ethnicities are subject to the exploitation of members of a ruling class that knows no barriers of race, culture, religion or sex. Which has in common only bad behaviour. A ruling class which owes its continued existence and its impunity, despite its evident criminality, to the refusal of its victims to unite and act in their own interests."
And these are among the least original thoughts on offer. Humanity has known these things since the days when it lived in caves and sent Birthday Cards to chimpanzees.

Let us put this Hydroxychloroquine nonsense to bed for the last time.
Whilst any form of fever mitigation is likely to have a place, however small, in the nurses' quiver of helpful practices, the promotion of this particular drug, which is known to have often mortal side effects in vulnerable people, is dangerous and dishonest. Chicken soup and lime juice are other much less dangerous alternatives over which the Pharmaceutical Protection Racket has no control. The same can be said of a regime of patient care, loving attention and good accommodation- full time staff in properly equipped facilities working in an atmosphere in which the loss of any life is recognised as a social tragedy and a defeat.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2020 14:55 utc | 5

The Kurdish-led Autonomous Administration of Northeast Syria signed a deal to market oil to US-based Delta Crescent Energy LLC “with the knowledge and encouragement of the White House.”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 2 2020 14:35 utc | 2

Very likely the Kurds were under pressure from Trump, and the act wasn't voluntary. It's not even the Kurds' oil to sign a deal on (except one well). We'll see whether the operation actually succeeds. At the moment, everybody is waiting to see whether Trump is re-elected in November. Signing a piece of paper now is of no significance.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 2 2020 15:00 utc | 6

How a US military doctrine became Colombia’s ‘origin of evil’ | Part 1: “Popeye”:
What is known in Latin America as the National Security Doctrine [is] not defense against an external enemy, but a way to make the military establishment the masters of the game [with] the right to combat the internal enemy…: it is the right to fight and to exterminate social workers, trade unionists, men and women who are not supportive of the establishment, and who are assumed to be communist extremists. And this could mean anyone, including human rights activists such as myself.

Colombia’s former Foreign Minister Alfredo Vasquez

Posted by: Maracatu | Aug 2 2020 15:01 utc | 7

I posted the European countries GDP numbers individually last OT. Here's the unified EU GDP data:

News Analysis: Eurozone economies shrink 40 pct in Q2, but "snapback" may be in works

"There are reasons to believe (Europe) is having a much bigger snapback than we would have expected," said Holger Schmieding, chief economist with Germany's Berenberg Bank, adding that European countries "may be getting ahead of the United States" in terms of economic recovery.

This is a big lie told by small truths. Yes, the main macroeconomic indicators in the EU are a little bit better than in the USA. But: 1) at this point in History, the USA is not the gold standard for economic performance anymore, so you're not comparing yourself with the best and 2) you can't just call every shitty recovery a "snapback". It's one thing to state a nation or a group of nations have reached "rock bottom" so the only way is up; it's another completely different thing to state a nation or a group of nations will simply recovery, a la V-shaped, in a way that by 2022/24 nobody will even remember the pandemic has ever happened.

The EU is in permanent decline, as is the USA. This is no surprise, as it tied itself to the fate of the USA (it coupled itself with the American system, governance, security, geopolitics etc. etc.). It will not rise again.

--//--

After Japan, Australia:

Australia's Victoria declares state of disaster, imposes curfew to contain COVID-19

I still don't understand why the Western MSM insists on treating the second wave as a mere possibility. It will happen, that's how pandemics work. They seem to be afraid to "spook the markets" (the "Confidence Fairy"/"Psychological Markets" hypothesis) or something like that - that's the only plausible explanation I can come with.

--//--

Here's the truth behind the "we'll have a vaccine by the end of the year" Kool-aid:

Indian billionaire bet big on head start in coronavirus vaccine race

The link doesn't allow me to copy-paste, so go to the 13th paragraph of the article.

For those who don't want to read it , here the long story short: they are betting with our lives while receiving billions of USD to do it (so it's not really a bet to them, only to us).

--//--

Let's kill some imaginary monsters:

TikTok ban demonstrates barbaric act of rogue US: Global Times editorial

China has never banned US high-tech companies from doing business in the country. What the Chinese government demands is that what they do in China should comply with Chinese law. That's all. It was some US companies that refused to comply with Chinese laws. Google used to have a position in the Chinese market. It itself pulled out of China a decade ago, while other companies were accused in the US of kowtowing to China when they tried to design their specific versions for the Chinese market. This leaves no US internet giant currently operating in China.

TikTok operates in the US in full compliance with US laws and is completely cut off from Douyin, its Chinese equivalent. Users in the Chinese mainland cannot register for TikTok even if they bypass the so-called great firewall. TikTok does not violate any US law but fully cooperates with the US administration.

The US claim that TikTok threatens its own national security is a purely hypothetical and unwarranted charge - just like the groundless accusation that Huawei gathers intelligence for the Chinese government. This is fundamentally different from China's refusal to allow the original versions of Facebook and Twitter to enter China and require them to operate in accordance with Chinese laws.

In just three paragraphs, the Global Times killed two myths: that a "great firewall" exists and that China censorship things from the West (i.e. that the Chinese people is "living in the darkness").

I had a teacher who traveled to China recently. He went to a local bar (100% Mainland Chinese) as soon as he landed. He was having difficulty accessing Google (I think it was either Gmail or Google Drive). He tried, tried, tried but couldn't do it. When the locals there realized he was trying to access Google products, they promptly and calmly told him he should use VPN because Google didn't operate in China. No drama, no fear of a local police officer suddenly coming to the place to arrest them.

They know what Apple, Google and Facebook are. It's just that China has better local options for the same product.

--//--

New cold war will not stop US decline

Bingo.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 15:04 utc | 8

"the promotion of this particular drug, which is known to have often mortal side effects in vulnerable people, is dangerous and dishonest.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2020 14:55 utc | 5

What a joke! You don't even know what you're talking about. A socialist sells his soul by repeating the propaganda of capitalist Big Pharma. Nobody's died of Hydroxychloroquine, not if you give a normal dose. Fauci's friends gave 4x the normal dose, and you can guess why. Not that I care very much. You evidently like paying Big Pharma's sky-high prices.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 2 2020 15:09 utc | 9

more on depopulating the earth

It is perfectly normal that a government is being used to push through the interests of [its branch of the monopoly mafia] <= by: Pnyx 11 ; <= A major problem bottom up humanity faces today, is the nation state system views the humanity it governs as a corporate asset.

The mafia methods you speak of are packaged as monopoly powers such copyrights, patents, transformation of public goods into for profit private enterprizes (privatization), takeovers and bankruptcy, private ownership of the highest levels of nearly all governments, and just 6 own 92% of all media.


it's just weird that the USA is shafting the very element that could destroy China (i.e. socialism) from within. <= vk @ 13; The Mafia first builds a nation it targets to be king of world made evil by propaganda, while it uses media to Hitlerize the "target nation state leader". This stirs destroy evil emotions (first Germany, then Russia, now its China's turn). Criminals or puppets of the criminals, control the nation states, save Iran, Yemen, and Venezeula types. Humanity has been a prisoner of the governance that rules them since nearly day one and the systems of governance are all controlled by Oligarchs.
Agree with vk that it's a dumb move, alienating Chinese tech/capitalists by: ptb @ 24

Bankruptcy before November is part of my scenario on the path forward. <=by: psychohistorian @ 15; => Can external means control internal cell to cell infection rates and restrain immune response)? Controlling "pandemic lock-down" with on-again off again new cases. Only a non government non corporate fail-safe infection prevention method (no one sick) will show if SARS CoVid-19 virus pandemic is a weapon or a natural phenomena.

macroparacite by SteveLaudig @ 20 "did you mean criminal enterprise"?

It seems increasingly accurate to see US activities through the lens of criminality than through the lens of empire or any state-related dynamic. Grieved @ 23. See jackrabbit @ 4 also.

Posted by: snake | Aug 2 2020 15:16 utc | 10

"..Trump deliberately allowed/wanted the virus to spread because doing so advances his neoliberal and Deep State agenda." @3
This is nonsense on stilts.
Trump and his class refused to deal with the virus not because they had a bail out plan in mind but because they did not want to decelerate the economy while it was making them such great profits. None of what you call benefits for the neo-liberal agenda begins to compare with the losses that a public refusal to go to work and a decline in purchasing power produced.
This ought to be clear now: the system is on the verge of implosion- commercial real estate is in a massive slump, the eviction crisis is about to lead to homelessness and bankruptcies as both sides of the rental market suffer. The back to work plans are constantly stalling or being reversed. There is no sign that the pandemic is not getting totally beyond control...
And you and OffGuardian and others jumping up and down to draw attention to their follies are telling us that it was all part of a Deep State, neo-liberal plot.
The pandemic is what it looks like- and what has long been anticipated, a pandemic in the new era of globalisation in which a virus can travel around the world in a couple of dozen hours. It is something that needs to be examined, thought about, discussed rationally and dealt with. Suggestions that it was engineered, introduced by a conspiracy or that it is nothing to worry about, like claims that it could be cured tomorrow if only Big Pharma would allow hydroxychloroquine to be made freely available, are all bars to sensible discussion and rigorous scientific enquiry.
The essence of capitalism is that it is not planned, that it relies upon the momentum of capital accumulation to solve problems as they arise, for the weight of wealth to steamroll all obstacles in 'this best of all possible worlds'.
Trump just wanted to keep his golf courses busy and his hotels filled. And the class he represents wanted the same sort of things.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2020 15:19 utc | 11

bevin @Aug2 14:55 #5

Let us put this Hydroxychloroquine nonsense to bed for the last time.

Followed by evidence-free blather.

Note how bevin slyly points out that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. We know (and he knows) that the treatment requires Zinc. We know the scientific mechanism that makes HCQ + Zinc work.

<> <> <> <> <>

AFAICT Big Pharma's campaign against hydroxychlorquine is what generates "nonsense". And trolls like bevin - who joined that campaign early on - distribute it to the unwary/uninformed.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 15:19 utc | 12

bevin @Aug2 14:55 #5

Let us put this Hydroxychloroquine nonsense to bed for the last time.

Followed by evidence-free blather.

Note how bevin slyly points out that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. We know (and he knows) that the treatment requires Zinc. We know the scientific mechanism that makes HCQ + Zinc work.

<> <> <> <> <>

AFAICT Big Pharma's campaign against hydroxychlorquine is what generates "nonsense". And trolls like bevin - who joined that campaign early on - distribute it to the unwary/uninformed.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 15:21 utc | 13

@ Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 2 2020 15:09 utc | 9 + Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 15:19 utc | 12

The biggest evidence hydroxychloroquine is that even its propagandists agree it just works on "very mild cases". Well, if a dosage doesn't work on graver cases, then you just up the dosage, as the drug must work. Either the drug kills the virus or it doesn't - if you're using the argument that "it closes the gates for the first few viruses", then you're giving equal credence to the more sensible and obvious hypothesis that some individuals simply can fight the virus off by themselves.

That is, unless it doesn't work. If a drug only works for very initial and mild cases and even then only with mineral and vitamin supplements, then it has all the marks of a placebo. This is specially the case when the trials are not randomized (i.e. the subjects know what they are taking beforehand).

This is a universal rule of modern medicine: a drug works directly proportional to its dosage, a higher dosage offering a higher effect. There isn't a drug that only works at a certain intermediate dosage or a drug that works stronger the lower its dosage (homeopathy) - you would be fighting against 150 years of western medicine if you are defending this.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 15:31 utc | 14

test. several attempts at commenting haven't gone through...

Posted by: lizard | Aug 2 2020 15:33 utc | 15

Laguerre

Yeah, I see the Kurd's as a figleaf. In the eastern part of Syria that US still holds, much of it I thought was Arab country or towns. A lot of the Kurd's appear to be OK with Russia patrolling sections of the border. My guess is that Arabs make up a larger portion of the so called SDF that US uses as a front.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 2 2020 15:33 utc | 16

Laguerre | Aug 2 2020 15:09 utc | 9

I agree completely.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 2 2020 15:34 utc | 17

test 2...will my comment appear without my website URL? am I banned? inquisitive lizards would like to know...

Posted by: lizard | Aug 2 2020 15:38 utc | 18

bevin @Aug2 15:19 #11

Trump and his class refused to deal with the virus not because they had a bail out plan in mind but because they did not want to decelerate the economy while it was making them such great profits.

Bullshit. The economy was on the brink of a recession after the longest expansion in history that was built on Fed QE and Trump's "sugar high" stimulus. Trump innoculated an over-extended Wall Street (facing tens of billions in bad loans to frackers) and will blame China for Covid-19 deaths and the economic downturn which would've happened anyway.

=
And you and OffGuardian and others jumping up and down to draw attention to their follies are telling us that it was all part of a Deep State, neo-liberal plot.

LOL! Trying to conflate my criticism with the astroturfed anti-mask/anti-lockdown libertarian mob is a desperate move. I've been very critical of those phonys as any Reader of moa knows. IMO Big Pharma and Trump Super-PACs are probably behind them.

=
The pandemic is what it looks like- and what has long been anticipated ...

And the response to the pandemic is what it looks like: a deliberate spread of the virus masked by fakery like "shutting down air travel" (it wasn't actually "shut down") and a frenzy to obtain more ventilators (which still haven't been delivered).

=
The essence of capitalism is that it is not planned ...

What world are YOU living in? In the real world, crony capitalism prevails and the "plan" is always the same: fuck the lower classes and achieve/maintain global dominance.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 15:41 utc | 19

Huge anti-lockdown protests in Berlin, could be the end of days they are refusing to wear masks!

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Aug 2 2020 15:53 utc | 20

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 14:36 utc | 3

Hard to tell. Trump isn't that deep. Of course, he could be persuaded to do almost anything if one works him right. I suspect everyone around him worked him so that he would follow his usual path of magical thinking in the direction that they wanted him to go.

A narcissist who is obsessed with magical thinking is the easiest thing in the world to redirect - as long as you make sure he doesn't notice it.

Of course, that does put all the blame on him. "The buck stops here" on the President's desk. And that's just how the behind-the-scenes elites like it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 2 2020 16:13 utc | 21

@ JR

I’m deducting a point from you for a low blow.

I know you know Bevin has been an MoA patron for a long time, long enough to express what appears to be organic opinion of a genuine person rather than an automaton or paid sock puppet. Was it really appropriate to employ the “troll” label?

Keep the punches above the belt, champ. :-)

Posted by: oglalla | Aug 2 2020 16:14 utc | 22

thanks for the week b.. i found the links to Michael Tracey's posts really interesting..

is the graph on Covid-19 Hydroxychloroquine the byproduct of big pharma? and how many more old moa rivalries are going to rear their ugly head over it?

Posted by: james | Aug 2 2020 16:15 utc | 23

Posted by: lizard | Aug 2 2020 15:38 utc | 18

Are you using a VPN? If so, turn it off.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 2 2020 16:20 utc | 24

@ Bevin

>> Trump just wanted to keep his golf courses busy and his hotels filled. And the class he represents wanted the same sort of things.

Well, I’m not buying this. Trump is not completely in charge anyway. JR’s interpretations make more sense to me. Trump blames China every chance he can and the Democrats either agree or offer mealy-mouthed protest.

USA couldn’t compete with China on a level playing field. Covid-1984 tilts the field. It’s hard for me to believe the mishandling wasn’t guided.

Posted by: oglalla | Aug 2 2020 16:22 utc | 25

The hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) studies that b points us to did not include Zinc.

We know that Zinc is the active ingredient. HCQ just allows Zinc to enter the cell so that it can disrupt the virus' replication.

Any "study" that doesn't include Zinc is bogus.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 16:37 utc | 26

@VK #14

"This is a universal rule of modern medicine: a drug works directly proportional to its dosage, a higher dosage offering a higher effect. There isn't a drug that only works at a certain intermediate dosage or a drug that works stronger the lower its dosage (homeopathy) - you would be fighting against 150 years of western medicine if you are defending this."

Please take a moment to look up "therapeutic index" before making any further comments on this topic. Weather you think HPQ is effective or not, the concept that it could be effective and beneficial at a certain dose, but cause unacceptable side-effects or death at a higher dose is at the core of modern (and, for that matter, even ancient) medicine and pharmacology. You can look up other drugs used for ant-bacterial or anti-viral or anti-fungal or anti-parasitic effects.

Posted by: Lysander | Aug 2 2020 16:55 utc | 27

@ Posted by: Lysander | Aug 2 2020 16:55 utc | 28

I explicitly stated "effect". Never said "cure".

The effect of the drug is stronger the higher the dosage. At a certain dosage (which is invariable somewhere at the middle), the benefits (treatment or cure) outweighs the collateral damage - this is the therapeutic zone of the drug (i.e. where it is medically useful). But the effect is always stronger (or extreme, if you want to moralize the issue).

If hydroxycloroquine, at its therapeutic zone, is only marginally effective in very mild cases (and only then, allegedly, with the help of Zinc and other antibiotics!), then it is not a significant treatment (and that's assuming it is a treatment - as I said, it could be just a placebo, or the side antibiotic is the true treatment). Or, it is just a placebo, so, in graver cases - where the patient is already in a ventilator (therefore, unaware he's taking any drugs) - it has absolutely no therapeutic effect. In either cases, hydroxycloroquine is not a drug that matters - it would be at the same level as rest, orange juice and mommy's kiss on the forehead at best.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 17:07 utc | 28

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 16:37 utc | 27

Please, show us the peer-reviwed study showing the exact biochemical reaction between Zinc and the SARS-CoV-2.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 17:09 utc | 29

A modicum of calm seems to have been restored in Portland. Trump and Brown reached a deal. This will come as a disappointment to some of our more ardent commenters but the Federal building remains in tact and there is no blood in the streets as yet. Dare one call it a win-win?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/calm-returns-to-portland-as-federal-agents-withdraw/2020/07/31/3606b35a-d364-11ea-9038-af089b63ac21_story.html

Posted by: dh | Aug 2 2020 17:11 utc | 30

Shadowstats GDP Chart is now updated for Q2. His comment:

"Second-Quarter 2020 GDP just shed the last five years of headline economic growth / Quarterly plunge of 32.9% (-32.9%), and year-to-year drop of 9.5% matched consensus expectations."

The basic dynamic IMO won't be altered during Q3, so expect that long blue leg to be extended well beyond -20%. Meanwhile, this editorial about TikTok being banned from the Outlaw US Empire has this to say:

"National security, in its narrow sense, is certainly not the most important consideration for the US. The real issue that truly concerns Washington is the ability of Huawei and TikTok to challenge the high-tech hegemony of the US. If this is also national security, then US national security is synonymous with hegemony. [My Emphasis]

"We can clearly see the ugliness demonstrated by the US government as well as the relevant high-tech giants. One of the companies hardest "impacted" by TikTok has been Facebook. Its CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, became the most public and aggressive promoter of TikTok's demise in the US tech industry.

"After wooing the Chinese side in order to get Facebook into the Chinese market, Zuckerberg has completely changed his face. He has declared that he has "ample evidence" that the Chinese side conducted theft of US technology when the CEOs of three other US internet giants declined to confirm that. This man's willingness to set aside morality for profit shows the true face of US capitalism."

Do please read the entire editorial as it has much more to say. This Global Times op/ed argues the New Cold War being raised by the Outlaw US Empire won't save it from its demise by its own hand:

"It is abundantly clear that the US cannot accept any threat to its global hegemony. The US as number one is regarded as fundamental to its DNA. But this is unsustainable.

"The US is in relatively rapid decline. It can no longer enjoy a monopoly of primacy in the world. It is determined, however, to resist any diminution in its authority. We have entered a dangerous, volatile and unpredictable period as the US seeks at all costs to resist the inevitable.

"As a result, we can no longer take world peace for granted. World peace is at risk for the first time since the Cold War. The COVID-19 crisis, furthermore, will surely result in an even bigger shift in power from the US to China than happened after 2008. That could result in an even more desperate American response. Until the US comes to terms with the new reality - that it must share primacy with China - the global situation will be very unstable. Declining imperial powers find it extraordinarily difficult to come to terms with their diminished position, as Britain since 1945 exemplifies. The same is true with the US but in a much more dramatic and dangerous way....

"Furthermore, it is clear that in the integrated global economy of today, China is a bigger economic player than the US. Whereas in the old Cold War, the Soviet Union was always far weaker economically than the US, the situation is completely different today, with China already enjoying the upper hand in key respects and, more importantly, very much on the rise in contrast to a US in decline.

"There is another important difference between the two cold wars. Wrongly, the Soviet Union sought to compete militarily with the United States, a disastrous strategy given that it was far weaker economically than the latter. China has not - and will not - make that mistake. Whatever the US spends, China will spend much less - concentrating its resources on the defense of its own borders and territory. And in the long run, economic power invariably trumps military force."

Again, the excerpts don't tell the entire tale, so please read the entire item!

IMO, from the POV of the individual to that of the Outlaw US Empire, TrumpCo has completely mismanaged the entirety of the Pandemic Crisis such that he's committed Treason against both. The massively inept response to COVID means that what remains of the Empire's economic engine can't do anything to further its hegemony such that a massive gap geoeconomically is being established between the new #1 economy and that of the former #1--and the mineshaft doesn't seem to have a bottom such that Real GDP shrinkage for Q3 could be -35% while China has already returned to growth and will continue on that path as it has COVID under control along with most of its neighbors.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 2 2020 17:26 utc | 31

A very small COVID-19 observation.

Look at the "America" (reddish orange) infections in the first graph at:
ECDC charts

(One can get the same idea by looking at the overall graph since it's only "America" (both the northern and southern continents) that moves this much)

Notice how the figures are increasingly oscillating. This is reporting overflowing to the rest of the week. Over time these artificial dips have spread out to include more days as well as oscillating deeper.

How long this trend can continue before it breaks down completely is anyone's guess.

2 more months?

My opinion: ignore the "professional retards" talking about a 2nd anything: the 1st wave hasn't hit yet! So far it's only people being sucked out to sea as the tsunami is building up its height.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 2 2020 17:50 utc | 32

@Hack,

no, not using a VPN. I suspect a historical figure referenced in a quote may have caused it to get caught up.

Posted by: lizard | Aug 2 2020 18:15 utc | 33

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 17:07 utc | 29

"If hydroxycloroquine, at its therapeutic zone, is only marginally effective in very mild cases (and only then, allegedly, with the help of Zinc and other antibiotics!), then it is not a significant treatment"

Take politic, bias and other factors aside. I kind of agree with you 100% more so than "he said, she said and I said..... and shit." I believe if there is nothing concrete available and repeat NOTHING better or available this is the best available, than take it! But if there are other drugs, therapy and options available like Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), convalescent plasma and more.. Why enrich a pharmacy company backed by an idiot and crooked president?

Posted by: JC | Aug 2 2020 18:17 utc | 34

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 14:36 utc | 3

Please dun push b and here my prediction. Idiot Trump will win regardless the expert views and opinions. My tea leaves (leafs) tell me he'll win. I'll continue to post my unorthodox views as we approach Nov 3 2020, unless covid-19 got me, one cannot be so sure today the new normal.

Posted by: JC | Aug 2 2020 18:31 utc | 35

vk @Aug2 17:09 #30

Many of us have been wondering why no such study has been performed when we have info from reputable sources like: Dr. Raoult in France (world-renown expert on Cloroquine), other countries that use HCQ, and this NYU retrospective study:

Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc vs hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin alone: outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients

In univariate analyses, zinc sulfate increased the frequency of patients being discharged home, and decreased the need for ventilation, admission to the ICU, and mortality or transfer to hospice for patients who were never admitted to the ICU. After adjusting for the time at which zinc sulfate was added to our protocol, an increased frequency of being discharged home (OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.12-2.09) reduction in mortality or transfer to hospice remained significant (OR 0.449, 95% CI 0.271-0.744). Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19.


<> <> <> <> <>

Info about HCQ and Zinc are not hard to find via searching. Here's a start:

Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore (PEER-REVIEWED)

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture (2010) (PEER-REVIEWED)

In this study we report that the zinc-ionophore pyrithione (PT) [Note: HCQ is an also an ionophore] in combination with Zn2+ is a potent inhibitor of the replication of SARS-coronavirus (SARS-CoV) ... the zinc-mediated inhibition of ... described here may provide an interesting basis to further explore the use of zinc-ionophores in antiviral therapy.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 18:32 utc | 36

VK
the only universal rule for medications is that different dosages of the same drug,with the exception of antibiotics,have very different effects at those different doses,some not beneficial.
Complicated subject not suitable for any generalization,even overdosing on some otherwise essential vitamins can kill
you,eg Vit C is a natural blood thinner at the correct dosage.

Posted by: winston2 | Aug 2 2020 18:33 utc | 37

@VK 29,

"The effect of the drug is stronger the higher the dosage. At a certain dosage (which is invariable somewhere at the middle), the benefits (treatment or cure) outweighs the collateral damage - this is the therapeutic zone of the drug"

Ok, thanks for the clarification. However, you are still mistaken. Look up the effects of dopamine on blood pressure at low doses vs high doses. Lowers blood pressure at first, then raises it.

The purported mechanism of action of HPQ is that it helps zinc enter cells and zinc inhibits viral replication. It is not at all implausible that after a certain dose, additional amounts doesn't improve zinc absorption.

Posted by: Lysander | Aug 2 2020 18:50 utc | 39

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 18:32 utc | 37

None of these papers are about SARS-Cov-2. One paper is from 2014 and the other is from 2010. And the 2010 one didn't even use test subjects, it was entirely in vitro (it's in the very title of the article). The 2014 is about using the drug against cancer, so we're not even in the same ballpark.

Both studies are completely useless for COVID-19. Completely. SARS-CoV-2 is not SARS-CoV. As the name indicates, it is an updated version (evolved) of the old one.

Observation: it is obvious that the "world-renown expert on Cloroquine" will spread pro-Cloroquine propaganda or show a pro-Cloroquine bias. It's his job and his career, after all. Doesn't change the fact that, no matter how "renowned" a doctor is: he still isn't above the scienfic method.

--//--

@ Posted by: JC | Aug 2 2020 18:17 utc | 35

But that's exactly my point: in the desperate times of a pandemic, the doctors in the frontline have poetic license to experiment with whatever drug or combination of drugs they see fit. Cue to the term "doctors in the frontline" - this doesn't apply to a random person in the streets.

In China's white paper reporting its fight against the pandemic, Cloroquine (phosphate) is mentioned only once - and only in the context of a greater cocktail of drugs. It is put at the same level as Chinese Traditional Medicine - which it explicitly stated only helped to mitigate the symptoms (fight inflammations, lower the fever etc.) , not to treat the patients. The reinforced many times Traditional Medicine was always used in conjunction - not in exclusion - with Western medicine (i.e. science-based medicine).

The doctors have the authority to decide which drug they'll use on their patients, not your neighbor, your boss or your friend. Not uncle Kyle, not aunt Mary. The doctor and the doctor only.

And the doctor has to follow his/her Medicine institution's guidelines.

--//--

But I have a theory why many commenters here are so into this Zinc+Hydroxycloroquine thing (besides the fact it is very cheap in the USA).

I've heard that Zinc has been propagandized in American television commercials as some kind of miraculous cure for male impotency and ageing for some decades now. They sell it like candy for American men over 45 years old, under the promise it will restore their lost masculinity. Since the thing is bombarded through TV commercials, I think even the women end up absorbing the message.

My guess is most commenters here in MoA are 45+ American men. As such, they grew up internalizing the dictum that Zinc is a super-nutrient. Much like the anti-oxidant fever of the end of the 1990s-early 2000s, Zinc has been elevated as some natural, miracle mineral that basically solves almost middle aged American health problems.

Hence no surprise that, when the rumors begun to circulate on the internet, those Americans quickly absorbed and internalized the idea that Zinc (in combination with hydroxycloroquine, which serves as the Deus ex Machina for this little narrative) really is an effective treatment for COVID-19.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 18:55 utc | 40

Posted by: oglalla | Aug 2 2020 16:14 utc | 23

"I know you know Bevin has been an MoA patron for a long time, long enough to express what appears to be organic opinion of a genuine person rather than an automaton or paid sock puppet"

If I must or forced to take sides, I'm with Bevin. It doesn't matter who were here longer. If I must, most likely I'm here longer than you, Bevin or even Jackrabbit. Jackrabbit's mouth might be forming like a mad dog lately. First, we need to respect the host regardless. If I strongly disagree, I'll leave. Like I did in the Saker’s blog very early before the start of Russia, Russia in Ukraine, this ex Russian a walking bible quoting chapters and verses like a robot before he gains prominent. He even got his website and holidays pro bona. I agree with much of his opinions and views but the bible, god stuff just turns me off. BTW even my brothers believe in that what you call Hydroxycloroquine

Posted by: JC | Aug 2 2020 19:28 utc | 41

@ JC

>> forming like a mad dog lately

Chillax, man. No reason to get upset.

Posted by: oglalla | Aug 2 2020 19:43 utc | 42

@ 42 jc... i don't recall you posting much, if any prior to this year... the past 6 months you've posted a lot... did you go by a different name previously?

@ rsh left a video of a nassim taleb interview that i finally saw to completion.. i learned a new word - geronticide... it is essentially the killing of old people.. the word is relevant here with covid.. how a society absorbs, or abandons it's old is a reflection on the society... if you are interested in watching the video -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyOsUbK8PiE
the conclusion is offered about 58 and 1/2 minutes in.. i enjoyed the commentary from 43- 48 minutes in...

Posted by: james | Aug 2 2020 20:11 utc | 43

@karlof1 32
"If this is also national security, then US national security is synonymous with hegemony."
That is precisely the problem. Unfortunately, the current US economy has become dependent on advantages arising from unrivaled geopolitical power. Take it away too suddenly, and there would be a painful economic transition to become a normal nation again.

@Sunny Runny Burger 33
re: weekly pattern in case data - people reporting the stats getting the weekend off, in some places. As the numbers pile up, the Monday morning pile might take more than a day to clear - I think you're saying that too. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, other than one is forced to use a 7-day filter to remove the transient, and the filter adds a corresponding lag.

I would be more interested in the relative amount of cases which never get tested, which is very inconsistent worldwide and even in any one place, changes in absolute terms with the passage of time and in relative terms vs surges (not going to say waves) of cases.

@vk 41
Re: zinc ... it has sortof the same place in modern folk medicine here as garlic. Believed to be great for a lot of things, but especially male hormones and immune response. In general I would not dismiss the power of diet and nutrition. Obviously there are many wild claims. Like people take a supplement which would make a difference if they were deficient in that nutrient, except few people nowadays are actually deficient. As for the hormones... I have a theory about women who eat lots of soy based foods, getting mild female super powers, gonna leave it at that =)

Posted by: ptb | Aug 2 2020 20:28 utc | 44

Six HK secessionists fled

Six HK secessionists fled, now wanted in HK. The countries they're hiding had earlier declared withdraw extradition treaties with HK. These six wanted persons and more as time progress believe they are safe wherever countries sheltering them. HK and China members of Interpol...

Let me share with MoA. I watch the old method regimes’ changes. Many are uninformed, how the Singapore regime backed by Americunt wiped completely Singapore's oppositions. Do a search Tan Wah Piow and Operation Coldstore. The code name for a covert security operation carried out in Singapore on 2 February 1963. Led to the arrest of 113 people, who were detained without trial under the Preservation of Public Service Security Ordinance (PSSO). The oppositions were never members of Marxism nor commie or CPM (Communist Party of Malaya) more likely the forerunner of Socialism with Chinese Characteristic

The worlds longest detain prisoner was not Nelson Mandela but an unknown Singaporean Dr. Chia Thye Poh detained without trial by Lee Kuan Yew's regime for 32 years, longer than Nelson Mandela SA. Therefore the six secessionists need to rethink what life ahead. China isn't going anywhere and will continue to grow and servicing its citizen. Socialism with Chinese Characteristic.

Nathan Law Kwun-chung 26, living London
Wayne Chan Ka-ku, fled to the Netherlands
Honcques Laus UK to political asylum June. Germany fake reporter
Samuel Chu American citizen & have been for 25 years. Pastor son
Simon Cheng Man-kit (Zheng Wenjie) British consulate, 28, solicit prostitute in Shenzhen and arrested. fled to UK
Ray Wong Toi-yeung 15Sept 93 HEC Higher Education Certificate. Fled asylum Germany in 2018

Posted by: JC | Aug 2 2020 21:03 utc | 45

vk @Aug2 18:55 #41

None of these papers are about SARS-Cov-2.

WRONG.

The first paper is from May 2020 and deals with SARS-COV-2. It shows that HCQ+Zinc is an effective treatment in vivo. It is a retrospective study from a highly respected University.

The next two papers - each of which are peer-reviewed - describe the scientific basis for the effectiveness of HCQ+Zinc against SARS-COV-2. One shows that Zinc disrupts viral replication and the other shows that HCQ is a Zinc ionophore: it works in a way that allows Zinc to easily enter the cell so it can act against the virus.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 21:23 utc | 46

@james

I agree. I don't recall JC as a commenter until recently.

@donkeytale

I'd say Gruff has been here for at least 2 years. He can better answer that.

Debsisdead changed his name to A User. And may have used another name as well for some posts.

And of course, we know you by a few different names as well.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 21:30 utc | 47

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 21:23 utc | 49

The first one is not peer-reviewed. Even if it were, it is not a clinical trial, just a retrospective observational study.

And the conclusion is not even decisive: the authors simply put that "This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19."

This last highlighted phrase is simply ridiculous. The authors have, for all intents and purposes, declared that they are for sale if one big pharmaceutical company or politician want to go all-in with the hydroxycloroquine.

I would be very surprised if this article ever becomes peer-reviewed.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 21:45 utc | 48

@ vk

From where do you infer that the articles that JackRabbit referenced do not apply to SARS-CoV-2? Is it from the same "wisdom" that makes you spout such evident nonsense about purported linear relations between dose and effect?

In any case, zinc acts on the RNA dependent RNA polymerase enzymes of many RNA viruses, including specifically those of the class of nidoviruses, of which the coronaviruses are a part. Here are some more links, including some recent ones relating explicitly to SARS-CoV-2:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA Dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp) – A drug repurposing study
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844020313463

Potential role of zinc supplementation in prophylaxis and treatment of COVID-19
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987720309695

The Role of Zinc in Antiviral Immunity
https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/10/4/696/5476413

Can Zn Be a Critical Element in COVID-19 Treatment?
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12011-020-02194-9

So there, zinc is the main actor, HCQ has only a supporting role and can easily be substituted by eg. quinine or quercetin, which also act as zinc ionophores.

BTW, I fully understand when people frown at some forms of HCQ advocacy, after having witnessed so many dolts blindly believing that it is a miracle cure, especially when these "advocates" are fully oblivious to the quintessental requirement of zinc supplementation and the fact that any zinc ionophore can in principle substitute for the HCQ.

Personally, I believe that Vitamin D supplementation warrants much more attention than zinc, let alone HCQ.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 21:52 utc | 49

Vk@29

“If hydroxycloroquine, at its therapeutic zone, is only marginally effective in very mild cases (and only then, allegedly, with the help of Zinc and other antibiotics!), then it is not a significant treatment (and that's assuming it is a treatment - as I said, it could be just a placebo, or the side antibiotic is the true treatment). Or, it is just a placebo, so, in graver cases - where the patient is already in a ventilator (therefore, unaware he's taking any drugs) - it has absolutely no therapeutic effect. In either cases, hydroxycloroquine is not a drug that matters - it would be at the same level as rest, orange juice and mommy's kiss on the forehead at best.”

I don’t know what you mean by marginally effective

A recent study shows the mortality rate drops in half when HCQ is given at moderate dose with moderate disease in hospital

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Contrast that with Remdesivir which costs thousands of dollars with more side effects and has no significant effect on mortality

The fact of the matter is , that for a disease which is causing so much panic and a drug thats been used OTC for decades in some countries (meaning its safe and cheap) that might be effective if taken early when symptoms are first noticed , this would be very beneficial, even if only as a placebo effect (which is the purpose of masks so people think it makes the safe without any statistically significant evidence in studies showing that to be the case). But studies by real doctors with no financial interest (this is key, there is no financial conflicts of interests for those touting HCQ unlike those who stand to make billions promoting vaccines and Remdesivir)
say it helps.

Yet we are told to wait for a rushed to market vaccine where manufacturers have no liability which may have harmful side effects and may not work to prevent a disease thats not much more than a cold to a large segment of the population and where most have cellular or innate immunity due to exposure to previous corona viruses.

Crazy stuff.

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Aug 2 2020 22:00 utc | 50

@5 bevin

Well said.

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 2 2020 22:22 utc | 51

@ Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 21:52 utc | 53; @ Posted by: Kay Fabe | Aug 2 2020 22:00 utc | 54

I don't think any of you guys are reading the papers you're posting here. You're going to the depths of the internet to find any headline that can be twisted to a pro-Zinc/pro-Hydroxycloroquine argument.

I also don't think - with all due respect - that any of you had basic biology classes when in high school. Or you did but remember nothing.

Here's the deal: read carefully, word by word, the papers you are posting here. Just read them.

After you read them all, you'll realize you're descending to the same level of the MSM you so much despise.

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 22:24 utc | 52

Some interesting stuff on these counts. They are counting COVID unlike any other infection

On March 24th, the CDC revised reporting guidelines for fatalities unique to COVID-19. The guidelines the CDC decided against using had been used successfully since 2003 and were used in the 2009 Swine Flu Pandemic

They instructed physicians, medical examiners, and coroners that COVID-19 would:
• be recorded as the underlying cause of death “more often than not;”
• be recorded as the cause of death listed in Part I of the death certificate even in assumed cases;
• be recorded as the primary cause of death even if the decedent had other chronic comorbidities. All comorbidities for COVID-19 would be listed now in Part II, rather than in Part I as they had been since 2003 for all other causes of death.

If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II.

It’s worth noting that Part I of a death certificate is considered the immediate cause of death while Part II is/are the significant conditions NOT relating to the underlying cause(s) in Part I.

Comorbid conditions were always listed on Part I of death certificates as causes of death per the 2003 CDC Handbook.

Prior to the March 24th decisions, any comorbidities would have been listed in Part I rather than Part II and initiating factors, like recent infections, would have been listed on the last line in Part I or in Part II.

On April 14th, the CDC authorized the following guidelines for data collection and reporting which are completely unique for COVID-19 and had never been done before which:
• allowed for ‘Probable’ cases to be counted for hospitalizations, and fatalities

Case Definition for Case Classification

A1. Clinical Criteria At least two of the following symptoms:
• fever (measured or subjective), chills, rigors, myalgia, headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s) OR
• At least one of the following symptoms: cough, shortness of breath, or difficulty breathing OR
• Severe respiratory illness with at least one of the following:
◦ Clinical or radiographic evidence of pneumonia, or
◦ Acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). AND
◦ No alternative more likely diagnosis

A2. Laboratory Criteria Laboratory evidence using a method approved or authorized by the FDA or designated authority:

Confirmatory laboratory evidence:
• Detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in a clinical specimen using a molecular amplification detection test
Presumptive laboratory evidence:
• Detection of specific antigen in a clinical specimen
• Detection of specific antibody in serum, plasma, or whole blood indicative of a new or recent infection*
*serologic methods for diagnosis are currently being defined

A3. Epidemiologic Linkage One or more of the following exposures in the 14 days before onset of symptoms:
• Close contact** with a confirmed or probable case of COVID-19 disease; or
• Close contact** with a person with:
◦ clinically compatible illness AND
◦ linkage to a confirmed case of COVID-19 disease.
• Travel to or residence in an area with sustained, ongoing community transmission of SARS-CoV2.
• Member of a risk cohort as defined by public health authorities during an outbreak.


A4. Vital Records Criteria A death certificate that lists COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death.

A5. Case Classifications
Confirmed:
• Meets confirmatory laboratory evidence.

Probable:
• Meets clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19.
• Meets presumptive laboratory evidence AND either clinical criteria OR epidemiologic evidence.
• Meets vital records criteria with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID19.

Section A3 empowers contact tracers, who are unlikely to have any medical training, to classify patients

Section A5 means you can be classified as a probable case if you have a “subjective” fever (no measurement) and were in an affected area, despite testing negative for Sars-CoV-2 and if you then die of a Heart attack you can be counted as a COVID death.

If the 2003 rules were maintained, what would the numbers look like?
Based on comorbidity data compiled from the only 7 states currently publishing this data in a manner that can be analyzed statistically, 90.2% of fatalities had at least 1 comorbidity and therefore these fatalities would not have been counted as COVID-19 fatalities under the 2003 CDC Handbook, but instead are counted based upon the guidelines adopted by the CDC on March 24th and April 14th respectively.

So basically the COVID fatalities are inflated by a factor of 10 compared to previous counting methods. By comparison, the 2009 Pandemic which everyone admits was a bust if not a fraud recorded about 12,000 deaths. If Swine Flu deaths were counted like COVID deaths, that number jumps to 120,000. Lockdowns probably account for the slight increase

As for incentives, hospitals get more bail outs with more cases. Everyone admitted gets tested even w/o symptoms. Positive tests are false positives in at least 30% of cases. This increases confirmed COVID hospitalized cases as well as deaths of those who were admitted for heart attacks, kidney failure, sepsis, etc in patients without COVID symptoms.

Hospitals also get reimbursed 20% more for Medicare /Medicaid patients.

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Aug 2 2020 22:43 utc | 53

U.S. Small Business Bailout Money Flowed to Chinese-Owned Companies

Millions of dollars of American taxpayer money have flowed to China from the $660 billion Paycheck Protection Program that was created in March to be a lifeline for struggling small businesses in the United States. But because the economic relief legislation allowed American subsidiaries of foreign firms to receive the loans, a substantial chunk of the money went to America’s biggest economic rival, a new analysis shows.

I don't think the NYT knows how a consumer economy like the USA's works...

When you consume more than you produce, you're bound to consume stuff from foreign companies. By definition.

I'm sure the likes of the Netherlands, UK, Germany, Sweden, Japan, South Korea all received bail out money - if not by pure osmosis. It's not conspiracy or a blunder; it's just the inevitable flow of capitalism at work.

--//--

This is risible:

Russia Sets Mass Vaccination for October After Shortened Trial

Russia plans to launch a nationwide vaccination campaign in October with a coronavirus vaccine that has yet to complete clinical trials, raising international concern about the methods the country is using to compete in the global race to inoculate the public.

Just one week ago the Western MSM was all over the place in joy over the Oxford "promising vaccine" that would be available by October this year (!!), but now the Russian one "raises international concern"? Why, because it is two months before the Oxford one... or because it is Russian?

If the competition is announcing they will have one ready for September-December 2020, it is not that farfetched for one player to have one by August (i.e. this month).

Or are the Americans worried they won't get to charge exorbitant prices to the rest of the world if don't discover one the earliest?

--//--

More hilarious stuff from the NYT. This time, on the concept of democracy:

Why Did Hong Kong Delay Its Election — by a Year?

The government blames the pandemic. More likely, it was afraid to lose.

Right below this op-ed:

100 Years of Voting Hasn’t Done What We Thought It Would

I think the NYT must decide how much time democracy needs...

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 22:43 utc | 54


Jackrabbit wrote @4
"But CDC didn't add GI symptoms as a possible early indicator of Covid-19 until early July: Nausea, diarrhea are now official symptoms of COVID-19: CDC - about 2 1/2 months later.

Why the delay? Who is responsible? US MSM apparently doesn't care to ask such questions.}
___________________________________________

MSM never questions science
Therefore science does not worry much about ever being caught blathering nonsense.

The press was supposed to be the force that acted as a counter to the TPTB. Obviously, TPTB quickly figured that out and thus the press is owned by TPTB. Always has been and always will be.

That is why I like to read the press from other countries. At least you get a viewpoint from a different sets of TPTB.

Posted by: jinn | Aug 2 2020 22:55 utc | 55

Things to do in Minsk so that you are not found suspicious...

https://twitter.com/cutefractal/status/1289655181685088257

Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 2 2020 23:01 utc | 56


This should be bigger news than it is.
We have all known for many months
that the elderly, especially those in nursing homes are the most vulnerable to respiratory infection outbreaks. Over 40% of COVID deaths are in nursing homes (that may hold for flu as well but no matter)

For 2 months we have been bombarded with messages the young must wear masks outside. Masks for all they say. So you probably would think there are masks available for all, especially in nursing homes where they might be more effective. Am I right? I mean they have had months to stockpile these.

This article says otherwise

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/613855/


Some facilities in Texas still don’t have the masks and the testing capacity they need, according to Patty Ducayet, the long-term care ombudsman for Texas. Assisted-living facilities, which aren’t regulated by CMS, are struggling to get supplies.

The humble mask, which officials have said is an essential virus-fighting tool for months now, is still in short supply. According to a recent National Nurses United poll, 85 percent of nurses were still being asked to reuse PPE as of last month.Many nursing homes are still on what’s called a “conservation protocol,” reusing gowns and masks—and potentially infecting themselves in the process.

In Arizona nurses were going between the rooms of different patients—some of whom had COVID-19—wearing the same gown, simply because there weren’t enough to go around.

Arizona, Florida, and Texas are now considered the epicenters of the pandemic. According to the latest CMS data (which, again, has had some reliability issues), out of 10,322 nursing homes in those states, 1,166, or about 11 percent, currently don’t have a one-week supply of N95 masks.

Texas nursing homes are still reporting defective shipments of PPE from the federal government.(eg. masks have thin cotton mesh for the ear loops that nursing home officials say often tear causing the masks to fall off.)

Florida has banned nursing home visits since mid-March. The state also is now requiring staff to be tested every two weeks, though current backlogs in receiving testing results (7-10 days) limits the effectiveness of this policy.
Why not stop testing healthy asymptomatic people to speed up the turn around time for nursing homes?

Protective gowns sent by the Federal Emergency Management Agency were comparable to “garbage bags” and shipments of masks were flimsy and had to be tossed.

New infections among residents at long-term care facilities in Florida rose by 142 percent or 2,819 cases between July 1 and July 21, while the increase among staff rose 121 percent or 3,882 cases during the same span.

Florida imposed a new rule recently that allows hospitals to transfer COVID-positive patients to nursing homes and ALFs as long as the receiving facility has a dedicated isolation wing with a dedicated staff to care for the resident, despite the mask shortages. Well that explains to increased death counts.

The changes was justified because “nobody should be in a hospital bed longer than necessary” and some people don’t test negative but are no longer contagious.???? Lol

Another guideline is a provision that allows COVID positive staff to return to work before producing a negative test result, a policy advanced by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Asymptomatic staffers who have tested positive for the virus are allowed to come back to work after quarantining for a certain number of days without testing negative first.

The CDC rule adopts a “symptom-based strategy” that allows staff to return to work without testing after 10 days if at least 24 hours have passed since the last fever, and they haven’t used fever-reducing drugs and there has been an improvement in symptoms. So 24 hrs after fever is gone and symptoms still present but improved but back to work and taking care of the old folks. Lol

If it wasn’t true it would be a comedy

Posted by: Kay Fabe | Aug 2 2020 23:10 utc | 57

@ JC 48

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that bit of history.

Posted by: oglalla | Aug 2 2020 23:13 utc | 58

@ donkey... basically what jackrabbit said... wg - a few years maybe? debs has been going by a user for the past year or more, but we haven't seen him the last month..

it really doesn't matter how long or not someone has been here - i know this is obvious to most, but it is the quality, not the quantity of content that matters.. seniority is irrelevant here as i see it , lol.... might work with a union gig, but this ain't that!

Posted by: james | Aug 2 2020 23:14 utc | 59

@ vk | Aug 2 2020 22:24 utc | 57

You need to learn to provide basic arguments to your claims.

Admittedly, I could have left out the first two article references, but I left them in specifically because they counterpointed some of your (baseless) claims. Specifically from the first: "There is a high degree of conservation among RNA dependent RNA polymerases of different RNA viruses." The second reference points out that zinc inhibits viral replication: "Zn effectively inhibits the RNA-synthesizing activity of nidoviruses (including SARS-CoV) in vitro, which is realized through alteration of RdRp activity during the elongation phase of RNA synthesis, probably by directly affecting template binding"

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 23:25 utc | 60

Cuba uses hydroxychloroquine as one component of its treatment protocol for COVD-19:

Cuba: Early hydroxychloroquine potent against COVID-19

Cuba, as we know, has a stunning record of success dealing with the pandemic. I quoted from that report before when I posted the link so I won't do it again. Bottom line: Cuba uses the drug early in the process and in small dosage in combination with several other drugs, and not if there is comorbidity.

The real bottom line is that Cuba doesn't exclude any of humanity's legacy of medical practices from its medical theory. It includes all of them, and uses what it finds the best for each case. In this, as a nation, it shows the cultural wisdom to handle the legacy wisdom of the human race.

~~

Lots of false binaries in this discussion - we could explore the ways in which we feel compelled to assume there must be one right answer versus all other wrong answers. The story of Cuba shows a respect for nuance, and a patience with embracing multiple lines of thought at the same time. Same with China, which keeps the valuable wisdom of its anciently proven medicine as a companion helper to its modern medicine.

@5 bevin spoke of "a regime of patient care, loving attention and good accommodation- full time staff in properly equipped facilities working in an atmosphere in which the loss of any life is recognised as a social tragedy and a defeat", and praised this as being of great value in the struggle against the virus.

I immediately thought of Cuba, whose medical institution I would take over that of the US any day. Half the cure lies in a caring environment. The other half perhaps lies in not dismissing potentially useful treatments because one feels obliged to decide yes/no, black/white in an unnecessarily false binary choice.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 2 2020 23:27 utc | 61

- continued - (accidentally clicked 'post')

The third and fourth references are quite interesting and describe how zinc helps fend off various types of viral infections. Did you read them word for word yourself? I did.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 23:28 utc | 62

@ vk | Aug 2 2020 22:24 utc | 57

Oh and another point, since you are making claims and accusations, what makes you conclude that I lack basic education in biology? What can you point out as my elementary misconceptions that make you come to your conclusions and what your own credencials in these matters that elevate your opinions to authority?

It is your lack of arguments based in communicable facts, abuse of character assault and other forms of vague innuendo that pulls you down to the level of MSM. Not worthy of this blog. Look in a mirror.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 23:37 utc | 63

@ King Lear | Aug 2 2020 23:38 utc | 71

Please provide references for your claim that 'Hydroxycloroquine works miracles in those Elderly and/or very ill patients who get a severe case of “Covid-19“'. I don't believe I have seen any proof of that. Do you understand what "miracle cure" means? It is not quite the same as "debatable fractionally lower mortality in retrospective study".

The rest of your diatribe is on par with vk for the wildly out of proportion narrative vs. fact ratio. Congratulations.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 23:56 utc | 64

bevin, vk and others who dismiss HCQ hope that readers will forget that 1) Big Pharma is making a huge amount of money from remdesivir and other quackery while at the same time 2) they mount a campaign against HCQ because it's use would cut into their profits.

Everyone that cares to look can see that this is the case. We can see that HCQ studies have been manipulated to fail and we can see that MSM has blasted out the message that HCQ is dangerous - despite it's use by millions for over 70 years. Even Trump helped by giving HCQ his personal endorsement and then meekly accepting the mockery that his endorsement generated. Why didn't Trump DEMAND a real study with HCQ + Zinc?

Now pro-Big Pharma commenters (whom I believe to be paid social media influencers) demand that we show peer-reviewed, double-blind studies when it is clear that Big Pharma has done everything it can to prevent or delay any such studies from being conducted.

It isn't reasonable to dismiss strong scientific evidence and convincing anecdotal evidence out of hand. But that is what the anti-HCQ+Zinc crowd do. And that should be your first clue that they are in the pocket of Big Pharma.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 2 2020 23:59 utc | 65

@ Posted by: Grieved | Aug 2 2020 23:27 utc | 68

One more example of a commenter posting a link without reading the content.

The headline of the link to the Turkish website is completely misleading. The Cuban doctor in charge clearly states, out of the bat, that Cuba is operating "in the framework of the protocol for management of coronavirus patients", i.e. there's no Cuban protocol to treat COVID-19: it is following the WHO.

He then merely states that "We are aware of the polemics around this product. Physicians here mostly have a good opinion of the results it has achieved, provided that it is used at an early stage in low doses and only with patients without comorbidities, which could be complicated by hydroxychloroquine". In other words, hydroxycloroquine, in the context of the protocol, is just ok (that could mean anything: from it being a placebo to it really curing patients).

But this part is crucial:

He said Cuba will continue to use hydroxychloroquine on the "few active patients" left in the country, although it is "not the main" component of the Cuban protocol.

Praising BioCubaFarma's role in battling the disease, Dr. Davila emphasized that hydroxychloroquine is only one of several drugs used in the protocol to treat coronavirus patients, and five other key drugs they use are unique to Cuba.

It is not the main component of the Cuban protocol ("Cuban protocol" is a term used by the journalist; it is actually the WHO protocol).

And this is still at the beginning of the article. It then abandons the subject about hydroxycloroquine entirely, and begins to talk about BioCubaFarma and its cooperation with other countries (one of them being Turkey).

In no moment the Cuban doctor told the journalist hydroxycloroquine is a "potent against the virus". That's pure invention by the journalist.

In fact, I found this headline weird from the start. I read the Granma daily since much before the pandemic started, and I've never seen any article praising hydroxycloroquine in any way. It is a drug that's just there, among the large cocktail of drugs used in the now standard protocol.

If there really was a conspiracy theory around Big Pharma and hydroxycloroquine, we would be reading on Cuban and Chinese media very positive news about the drug already. China, for example, could be inserting the drug alongside its humanitarian help to the Western countries. It could have "whistleblowed" to the WHO (the WHO's COVID-19 treatment standard we have today was mainly shaped from the Chinese experience). That's certainly not the case, so there's no reason to think there's a dark operation to hide an allegedly efficacy of hydroxycloroquine against COVID-19.

Another fact that plays against the hydroxycloroquine hysteria lies in the fact that it only exists in the West. Well, if the drug really was that effective, it should work with Asians, too. But we're not observing a pro-hydroxycloroquine political movement happening in China, Japan or South Korea. The reason for that can only be one: the hysteria begun with an Youtube video from French doctor Didier Raoult. Acting irresponsibly (or criminally?) he did a not randomized, not blind test with 86 patients from his local French clinic. He then spread the news on the internet. This has all the marks of a "fever"/mania - a propaganda move that viralizes outside of the context of big ads (TV, newspapers, social media).

The most likely explanation for this obsession with hydroxycloroquine is then this: a Western doctor announced a fake treatment on the internet and viralized in the West. Coupled with the typical Western distrust in the governments, and with the strong interests of the Western petite-bourgeoisies, it gained traction outside of the vehicles of the big corporations. In this context, hydroxycloroquine represents more of a messianic figure, a second coming of Jesus Christ, a symbol of hope of the conservative movements in the West, a symbol of David against Goliath (small business-owner vs big business) than a viable treatment.

Posted by: vk | Aug 3 2020 0:01 utc | 66

This is what the rioting does: Pushes us closer to all Walmart and Amazon all the time.

https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-st-paul-buildings-are-damaged-looted-after-george-floyd-protests-riots/569930671/

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Aug 3 2020 0:17 utc | 67

@ vk | Aug 3 2020 0:01 utc | 74

There you go again, spouting nonsense that you made up and probably believe in yourself.

Where are the facts to your claims that Cuba's protocols are the WHO's protocols? I couldn't find any reference to that in the article. There is not even any mention of the WHO in that article.

In fact, if you go to the who.int site for COVID-19 you can find their recommendations for the clinical management of COVID-19. Download the pdf, go to section 12 on page 31 and note that the WHO explicitly recommends AGAINST the use of hydroxychloroquine, immunomodulators such as interferons, and plasma therapy. All three are hailed in the article by the Cuban doctor as part of the Cuban protocol.

On a sidenote, the article does not mention any actual Cuban-Turk cooperation, as you claimed. According to the article, they're just "talking".

Vk, admit that you were caught talking out of your ass. It is plain to see for everybody who not only reads the references word for word, but also checks if the claims are factual and make sense. Stop berating other for your own errors. It looks dumb.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 3 2020 0:47 utc | 68

The American Association of Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), have filed a lawsuit to compel release USA stockpile of hydroxychloroquine

“Why does the government continue to withhold more than 60 million doses of HCQ from the public?” asks Jane Orient, M.D., the Executive Director of AAPS. “This potentially life-saving medication is wasting away in government warehouses while Americans are dying from COVID-19.”

AAPS files with the court a chart showing how countries that encourage HCQ use, such as South Korea, India, Turkey, Russia, and Israel, have been far more successful in combatting COVID-19 than countries that have banned or discouraged early HCQ use, as the FDA has. Last week the FDA even misled the public by falsely stating that HCQ should not be used to treat COVID-19, when multiple studies show its benefits, and thousands of patients have been successfully treated worldwide.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 0:47 utc | 69

Lurk @Aug3 0:47 #76

It looks dumb.

It's smart for Big Pharma to use social media influencers.

We are the dumb ones when we don't recognize this.

We saw the same kind of bullshitting with the climate change trolls: using every device and trick to spread FUD.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 0:53 utc | 70

@ Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 0:53 utc | 77

I wouldn't go so far as accusing vk of being a paid media influencer.

But I do note the irony of vk constantly whining about "petite bourgeoisie". Meanwhile, assuming that he is really from Brazil, his apparent mastery of the English language and the time that he is able to spend on posting here in his studied pet pose as a marxist makes it not very likely that he actually lives in a favela. I wish I knew the the portugese term for "champagne socialist".

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 3 2020 1:25 utc | 71


From a Trump appointee -

In a landmark ruling, the US Supreme Court has recognised that the Trail of Tears-in which 60,000 Native Americans were displaced from their ancestral lands-came with treaty promises that cannot be set aside.


https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018757703/off-the-beaten-track-with-kennedy-warne

Posted by: tucenz | Aug 3 2020 1:36 utc | 72

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 2 2020 21:52 utc | 53 Personally, I believe that Vitamin D supplementation warrants much more attention than zinc, let alone HCQ.

The Front-Line COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group that I've mentioned previously also recommends Vitamin D and Quercetin as prophylaxis supplements, as well as higher doses (75-80 mg) of zinc for a month and then going down to 50-55 mg. I take all three and 1600 mg of Vitamin C.

They mention HCQ only as an additional optional supplement to their main protocol which entails a corticosteroid, large intravenous doses of Vitamin C for the immune system and for its reported benefits in intubation, heparin for the blood clots COVID-19 causes, and high-flow oxygen via cannula while delaying intubation as much as possible.

They claim major success with this protocol, although I haven't seen any real numbers yet. They also state that this protocol needs to be done early, within six hours of hospital admission, so like HCQ it's possible their successes would have survived anyway. Until we see a real trial, it's not certain.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 3 2020 2:16 utc | 73

Posted by: ben | Aug 3 2020 2:10 utc | 81

Missed you welcome back:-)

Posted by: JC | Aug 3 2020 2:19 utc | 74

@ Posted by: Lurk | Aug 3 2020 0:47 utc | 76

The only one here who should read page 31 is you.

Again, I urge all the people here to read what you post on its entirety - and not just the headlines and the highlighted words.

Cuba is following the recommendations of the WHO.

Posted by: vk | Aug 3 2020 2:24 utc | 75

Meanwhile, the rest of the "it's only the flu" trolls are back in force. Every pandemic thread, every open thread and every weekly recap thread...

Lame.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 3 2020 2:26 utc | 76

@68 vk - "One more example of a commenter posting a link without reading the content."

It's very rare that I respond to a personal accusation such as this is, but the truth is that I respect your posts, vk, and so I offer you this one fact that you couldn't know: I did read the article. I read it in the beginning from my own interest, and then when I thought it was useful enough to share with the MoA commenters I read it again, to make sure I wasn't posting something that was false to what I claimed.

I understood that it was a Turkish source, but as I scrutinized it, I decided that the interview was sound. Everything I quoted in my original comment a couple of threads back was directly quoting from the doctor, with his qualifications that the drug was used as a part of a much larger protocol, etc, etc.

I quoted the doctor - and only the doctor - because he reported the classical medical nuance of any situation, hedged and circumscribed as science is, presenting possibilities and the results that doctors had found, namely that most doctors had found the drug useful, and this is what he was reporting - and this is what Cuba was allowing its doctors to play with, because - first - no harm was being found, and then all the rest followed.

It was all about nuance when I posted the first comment days ago, and I recall clearly that I championed that nuance. I still do. I yearn for nuance in this discussion, but this yearning continually comes up against the yearnings of others for absolute pronouncements and rock-solid certainties, here in the age of this unknown virus and its attendant, unknown consequences.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 3 2020 3:01 utc | 77

@89

Here's the link to my original comment, in an earlier thread:
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 30 2020 18:10 utc | 85

And here's the original post - so that commenters won't have to pass judgment on a comment without reading that comment:

@81 Miss Lacy

No shouting from this quarter. The situation with this drug is nuanced, which is why black and white responses to it are by their very character inadequate.

Who can we trust on this question of hydroxychloroquine? How about Cuba?

Cuba has one of the highest proportions of doctors to population of any country in the world, and this fulfills the revolutionary dream of Che Guevara (who I, in my ignorance, only very recently learned was trained as a doctor).

Cuba uses hydroxychloroquine as one part of its treatment protocol for COVID-19 - only one part of the cocktail, and only for cases in the early stage:

"We do use hydroxychloroquine in the framework of the protocol for management of coronavirus patients," Dr. Augustin Lage Davila, advisor to the president of BioCubaFarma and former director of the Centre for Molecular Immunology in Havana, told Anadolu Agency on Thursday. [...] "We are aware of the polemics around this product. Physicians here mostly have a good opinion of the results it has achieved, provided that it is used at an early stage in low doses and only with patients without comorbidities, which could be complicated by hydroxychloroquine," Dr. Davila added.

He said Cuba will continue to use hydroxychloroquine on the "few active patients" left in the country, although it is "not the main" component of the Cuban protocol.

Praising BioCubaFarma's role in battling the disease, Dr. Davila emphasized that hydroxychloroquine is only one of several drugs used in the protocol to treat coronavirus patients, and five other key drugs they use are unique to Cuba.

Cuba: Early hydroxychloroquine potent against COVID-19


Go Cuba! And thanks for the nuance :)

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 30 2020 18:10 utc | 85


Posted by: Grieved | Aug 3 2020 3:10 utc | 78

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 2 2020 14:21 utc | 1

I hold a simpler view. There is no meaningful conversations between cowards, since it's all rationalizations and mental gymnastics to justify them doing nothing. At the end of the day, they are just going meekly accept the status quo in America.

Posted by: J W | Aug 3 2020 3:24 utc | 79

Dr Fauci has effectively shut down the only Randomze Controlled Trial that could have proven the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine

July 31st, Gummi Bear, who wrote a widely-read comprehensive review of HCQ studies (still pinned to the top of his twitter feed) tweeted that:

Dr. Fauci (NAIDI Director) has effectively shut down the only RTC [misspelled RTC: Randomized Controlled Trial] that could have proven the efficacy of #Hydroxychloroquine in symptomatic adult outpatients

This study had its enrollment cut from 2000 to 20 subjects.


!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 3:28 utc | 80

Excellent comprehensive review of HCQ and the campaign against it:

Hydroxychloroquine: The Narrative That it Doesn’t Work is the Biggest Hoax in Recent Human History

Especially interesting are his discussions of:

  • a study in Sao Paulo by a large medical group (Piece 20);
  • Remdesivir's ineffectiveness (Piece 27-28);
  • Positive results of several countries that use HCQ/HCQ+Zinc (Piece 37-49).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 3:30 utc | 81

Posted by: oglalla | Aug 2 2020 23:13 utc | 65

"Interesting. Thanks for sharing that bit of history"

Thanks, you're most welcome. Remember the six names. It will pop up repeatedly especially the 5eyes bashing China. Chinese names are hard to remember when written in different countries - mixed with Eng Christian names... like, Tony, Edward Arnold etc. I too have an Eng name but not legit.

Posted by: JC | Aug 3 2020 3:50 utc | 82

ben @Aug3 2:55 #87

@ Jrabbit; Come on rabbit you can't possibly believe bevin is a troll. If so, he/she,is the most progressive and sensible troll I've ever read.

It's strange how he can be so "progressive and sensible" on some things but at times be decidedly NOT progressive and/or sensible as he mysteriously supports narratives that serve powerful interests.

bevin's position on child rape was not "progressive". How many progressives think that its OK for 40- and 50-year old men to be dating 15-year old women? But this position supported the push to diffuse the outrage surrounding Epstein. When we talk about old men and young women, we are NOT talking about spy agencies.

bevin's was against HCQ soon after the controversy began. He is actually very militant about it. Why is he so much against HCQ? As I wrote in comments above, there is a clear campaign against HCQ. That is clear to everyone that cares to look. AFAIK bevin is not a doctor. Is know-nothing devotion to Big Pharma progressive or sensible?

I encourage you to read Gummi Bear's comprehensive review of HCQ on twitter (see link @Aug3 3:28 #92) and the comprehensive review that I linked to @Aug3 3:30 #93.

PS Good to have you back!

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 4:11 utc | 83

@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 3:30 utc | 93 etc,

It's not true HCQ is demonized in the West. On the contrary: it is the place where it is venerated the most.

I don't think Fauci is some kind of Rasputin behind Trump. Trump himself came out many times doing pro-HCQ propaganda, even stating he took it as profilaxis.

Those statistical analysis studies are basically useless for these kind of diseases. The problem is that the COVID-19 is a pandemic: hospitals from every part of the world, under very different circumstances are treating a different amount of cases from very different backgrounds. You can't kust pretend the disparities of deaths in a clinic in England and a clinic in Bangladesh are purely due to the prescription or not of HCQ. This is specially valid for a disease without cure and with a protocol that involves more than 20 drugs.

And I repeat my opinion about the Turkish article: the journalist clearly forced the HCQ question to the Cuban doctor, who quickly dismissed it as the star of the show. Yes, they are still using it (as by July 7th, the date of the interview), but not as the main drug.


And this "large Brazilian medical group" case is am absolute farce. When the pandemic first came to Brazil (March), the first victims were more affluent middle classes, wo filled up the private hospitals first. This particular hospital - from group Prevent Senior - at first tried to hide the cases. When it became impossible to keep the secret, its CEO revealed to some privileged sources it was administering HCQ to all of them - probably following Trump's hype. Bolsonaro became fascinated with the drug during this time.

The rumor quickly died down in Brazil, as there were nine heart attacks and three deaths in less than a month time span. That CEO disappeared from the news as quickly as he appeared. Nowadays, the hype only lives through Bolsonaro himself, whose friend is owner of the country's main producer.

Posted by: vk | Aug 3 2020 4:15 utc | 84

Grieved

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 3 2020 4:37 utc | 85

Professor Raoult explained how (Hydro)xychloroquine-tests are purposefully designed to fail. The table - at least in part - reveals that the listed tests are of that very kind.

Posted by: th3l0nius | Aug 3 2020 4:42 utc | 86

@ vk | Aug 3 2020 2:24 utc | 85

The only one here who should read page 31 is you

But why won't you read it? I'll include the link to the WHO recommendations right here:

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1278777/retrieve

Scroll to page 31 and tell me how I misread any of that. If you wish to persist in publicly claiming that I am wrong, then at least return me the courtesy of pointing out where I am wrong. You seem to have no problems typing in large pieces of text, why so shy about this now?

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 3 2020 4:44 utc | 87

Grieved

What you have put up is close to what I could make of in-vitro testing. The quinine compounds look to be good for preventing coronavirus infection, but in being used against an existing infection, high doses were needed to reduce the infection by 50%
So before or at the very start of infection they may work very well.
Peak infection seems to occur before peak symptoms, symptoms being caused by the immune response. buy the time the immune system is starting to kick in and cause damage, coroavirus is already starting to die off.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 3 2020 4:46 utc | 88

The silence on on Syria's oil is deafening.

The middle east at the moment appears to be at a stalemate. turkey controls sections of Syria but appears to have brought the headchoppers under control. US control the oilfields of eastern Syria which is attached to their holdings in Iraq. The new Iraqi PM paid a visit to Tehran to be greeted with resumption of US instigated riots.
US cannot attack Iran because of Russia's nuclear umbrella, but at the same time, Iran cannot attack the US as it will forfeit the nuclear umbrella.
Putin's stated goal in moving into Syria was to bring about conditions where negotiations could take place. He seems to have achieved that. For those that are resisting the US, time is on their side. US is collapsing socially and economically and falling behind on military tech.
US stalemated in the middle east has turned its full attention on China. A little way to go there until a stalemate is achieved.

Trump may be looking to break the stalemate n the middle east. His latest appointee..
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-military-tata/divisive-trump-nominee-gets-new-pentagon-post-despite-snub-by-congress-idUSKBN24Z030?il=0
With these types it's anything goes. He is US military. I wouldn't be counting on the US military to disobey orders from their commander in chief because they think they will take casualties or lose.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 3 2020 5:33 utc | 89

Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2020 14:55 utc | 5

"the promotion of this particular drug (hydroxychloroquine), which is known to have often mortal side effects in vulnerable people, is dangerous and dishonest".

It has no more mortal side effects if used properly than drinking to mch water.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/

Such propagandistic statements, Bevin, are "dangerous and dishonest". Anything abused or misused can be dangerous. It is all about context. Any vaccine will likely kill more "vulnerable" people than Hydroxychloroquine, and have done so. Do you really think medical practitioners do not know that some people can be vulnerable to any drug. Most check people's health histories before administering any drug. Hydroxychloroquine is no more dangerous, indeed far less so, than most drugs when properly used. Ask lupus and malarial patients.

Enough anti-hydroxychloroquine propaganda. This is carrying Trump derangement syndrome too far. Get a grip!!

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 3 2020 7:07 utc | 90

Posted by: vk | Aug 2 2020 18:55 utc | 41

"My guess is most commenters here in MoA are 45+ American men. As such, they grew up internalizing the dictum that Zinc is a super-nutrient."

It has nothing to do with USAians vk. The drug is being used in some 65 countries, including the one I am living in Turkey. Turkey originally got the idea from China. There had been evidence of its usefulness way back in February.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/chinese-study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-useful-in-controlling-covid-mortality/ar-BB13vFNC

Most of the mixed results of studies come from Western (US, EU) studies which seem to be in collusion with Big Pharma and its controled institutions, eg, the retracted (indeed fraudulent) Lancet study in June.

This is hardly a surprise given the massive profits Big Pharma hopes to gain from a vaccine, and the fact that companies like Astrazeneca are not to be held liable for any side effects or deaths resulting from the vaccine.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/astrazeneca-exempt-coronavirus-vaccine-liability-132632702.html

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 3 2020 7:35 utc | 91

With HCQ/Remdesivir I think the positions are decided by hysteresis: you have a point of view (usually decided by initial distrust of something)and you may change it if you see hard proof. For lack of hard proof you keep believing X works or does not work.
Science can reduce the gap, but it has not performed very well here. There are a few good reasons for it: in the short run you have no time for extensive research and you have to go by seat of the pants decisions: action over science. That is legitimate. The virus is also pretty confusing. If the disease affects people very differently then statistical research becomes harder. It is a virus which allows for very different theories to coexist and which take a long time to be disproven.
Apart from that there are instances of science underperforming , partly because it's being too 'capitalist'. That is worrying and a cause(or amplifier) of distrust, which leads back to (1) and quickly degrades the level of thinking. I think there is another factor: antivirals are just not that effective on this virus while other directions are much more promising: interferon(early), blood thinners, steroids(late).

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Aug 3 2020 7:45 utc | 92

Useful Idiots has a good interview with Robert Gallo. The interview also has valuable input on OPV, oral polio vaccine, which relates to the article on Bill Gates at The Grayzone: The Gates Foundation is a strong supporter of OPV while there is discrediting information about it which indicates there are significant hidden costs to health(categorized under non polio paralysis). The implication is that the use OPV is driven by other motives than people's health. The fact that Gallo is a strong supporter of OPV to me is sufficient argument that many informed people have sincere trust in the use of OPV in India. That does not resolve the question of the many 'non polio paralysis' cases in India.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Aug 3 2020 7:53 utc | 93

Posted by: vk | Aug 3 2020 4:15 utc | 97

"This is specially valid for a disease without cure and with a protocol that involves more than 20 drugs."

The problem here is that the anti-hydroxychloroquine crowd are interpreting it as a "cure" for covid19, but no responsible medical practitioner has ever claimed it to be a "cure". It reduces the extreme effects of the disease, by reducing the "viral load" as explained in this recent study:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996.

Thus you still have the disease, but the worst effects seem to be mitigated when the Hydroxychloroquine/Azithromycin combo is used early in treatment.

There are many other "treaments" being tried as well. Favipirivir has also been used with some success in Turkey.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 3 2020 8:09 utc | 94

Lysander #28 and Jackrabbit

I Absolutely agree with your propositions. There is synthesis and multiplier effects in pharmaceuticals. Some known and relied on and some observed but evasive to describe.

My personal experience was with a bone disease resulting from a deep wound. Bone necrosis was underway and I got specialist advice from a senior specialist pharmacist who prescribed a common combination of a powerful antibiotic simultaneous with a pedestrian pharmaceutical for treatment of gout.

As he described the synthesis: Normally the antibiotic peaks in the bloodstream and subsides over 24 hours and 12 hourly doses were unwise to dangerous. The gout pharmaceutical leveled the blood volume of the antibiotic and flattened the curve so that the antibiotic was consistent over the 24 hours between doses - only commencing decline in the last couple of hours. This subjected the bone destroying bug to a constant and deadly dose.

Think about coca leaves commonly eaten by humans for high altitude effort. They won't work as well if you don't chew calcium as lime. I understand the same applies for the consumption of the Australian pituri plant eaten with wood ash. Has saved many lives of those that make arduous cross desert walks on cultural journeys and no doubt has a much broader pharmaceutical range than the meager knowledge we have today.

As for the HCQ issue - my response would be to reach for a normal dose of Wormwood and Zinc an vitC at the first symptom and continue that even if taking pharmaceuticals as well. If I though it might assist I would chew a little wood ash too as it cleanses the mouth and stops flatulence while its at it.

Stay well and thank you for your sanity here.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 3 2020 9:23 utc | 95

uncle tungsten

Pituri is a nicotine hit. Several species of the tobacco plant are indigenous to Australia plus a nicotine bearing shrub - poor mans tobacco because it is very high in other not so nice alkaloids. I saw an old aboriginal man making it with bought tobacco one time. Dry bark from a certain tree that burns to a very white ash. He then the mixed tobacco and ashes made small balls of the stuff. According to him the tobacco was much more potent when mixed with the ashes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 3 2020 9:46 utc | 96

This is the bunya nut republic covid testing farce: a family member goes to have the test at one of the purpose built centres where all go who suspect contact or infection. This person goes there with a parent. There are no hand sanitisers evident or offered prior to the test.

The testing clinician has TWO masks and TWO pairs of gloves on. There is no sanitiser on the table for either party.

There is no sanitiser on exit.

This is the highest concentration of potential covid carriers, virus shedders and every other flu virus in the land. This is HUGE risk for medicos and people and they have no cleansers anywhere in sight. If you think the USA and UK are bad then you had better avoid Australia too.

The take away is that getting tested is a greater risk than avoiding medical services if in doubt.
Bunya nut republic!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 3 2020 9:59 utc | 97

@ uncle tungsten | Aug 3 2020 9:23 utc | 111

Don't overdo the zinc bit because it competes with copper, another essential micronutrient. I know you said "normal dose" but sometimes people only read half of what is written and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I wouldn't want to see people go out and weld copious amounts of galvanized steel in an unventilated area for the purpose of dosing up on zinc.

BTW the lime and ash are both alkaline substances and act to "freebase" the active principles in the plant material. Most plant alkaloids are naturally present in an ionic ("protonated") form. For some alkaloids, this ionic form may have a low oral bioavailability, while the free base ("deprotonated") form can have a better ability to traverse lipid membranes. By chewing basified plant matter and holding it against the inside of the cheeks and against the gums, the active plant principles may enter the bloodstream directly, bypassing the normal route through the gut. This method of administration is sometimes referred to as "buccal". Swallowing basified material will have it returned to its ionic form in the stomach, which is highly acidic.

PS the indigenous people of certain parts of many USA cities are also familiar with the hightech concept of freebasing. The use it to turn cocaine hydrochloride into crack. In another incarnation, related techniques are part of the "shake-n-bake" rituals performer by some dwellers of more rural areas.

Posted by: Lurk | Aug 3 2020 10:21 utc | 98

vk @Aug3 4:15 #93

this "large Brazilian medical group" case is am absolute farce.

Yet Prevent Senor's results are similar to results experienced in countries that use hydroxychloroquine:

  • Only 1.17% of those receiving early treatment with HCQ + Z-Pak needed to be hospitalized.
  • 3.2% of those receiving later treatment with HCQ + Z-Pak needed to be hospitalized.
  • 5.4% not treated with HCQ + Z-Pak needed to be hospitalized.

The author of the online article describes Prevent Senor as follows:
They have a portfolio of 470 thousand customers. It is 25% of the elderly in São Paulo. They are the owners of several hospitals and had become a case in universities around the world for being able to make a health plan cheaper than conventional ones, precisely for the elderly.
So they are a respectable company with a specialty in elder care.

=
Nowadays the hype only lives through Bolsonaro himself, whose friend is owner of the country's main producer.

There is very little profit in HCQ treatment (HCQ + Zinc + Z-Pak) as opposed to Big Pharma products like Remdesivir. Pro-business "villiage idiots" Trump and Bolsonaro are hyping HCQ to help deter it's use. They do so for not just to boost Big Pharma profits but also for geopolitical advantage (blame China).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 3 2020 10:37 utc | 99

The show must go on!! Cruises and everything!
https://www.pgcruises.com/travel-advisory
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23323-paul-gauguin-has-a-covid-19-case.html

Posted by: Mina | Aug 3 2020 11:08 utc | 100

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