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August 6, 2020
Open Thread 2020-62
Comments
Posted by: vk | Aug 7 2020 14:32 utc | 99
vk: 1) Marx’s works are clearly not “word spinning”. They are undoubtedly scientific.
You clearly believe this, but you are simply asserting this with conviction. I accept that you belive this. No reason to repeat this.
vk: 2) “Those charlatans (vulgar economists) already existed in the droves by the time Marx existed. He even had to disclaim that his Capital was a critique of the “serious economists”, not the “vulgar economists” who published in amateur magazines all around Europe during the 19th Century. And they attacked him while he was still alive.”
It is understood that intellectual charlatans exist, past, present, future. It’s a slight red herring to bring this up. The point is that people started taking these word-smiths seriously again.
vk: “3) There is no direct descendants to the classical economists today – even after the monumental effort by the capitalist do demoralize and bury Marx. No bourgeois economist today will defend his thesis on Adam Smith’s works. In fact Adam Smith already was an outdated economist by the time of Marx. […]”
The domain of our discussion is not mere “economics”. Note also I do not defend Adam Smith or his ilk.
vk: “4) Marx’s theory of capital are being confirmed empirically each day, which became glaring after the 2008 crisis. No other bourgeois vulgar economics theory can predict crises in capitalism.”
This may be a shock to you but even to a relatively disinterested lay person (who did not use “Marxism” as an analytical tool) in early 00s, it was clear as day that the ponzi schemes in play would have to crash. The “other economists” you refer to are servants of the ruling class of today. How could they possibly stand before their emperor and point out he is sans covering?
vk: 5) “The very fact that the bourgeoisie – with all its weight – failed to bury Marx after almost 150 years of incessant censorship and propaganda (and Soviet self-sabotage) is evidence his theory is scientifically precise, as it withstands the test of time and can predict the future (as it predicted 2008, as it predicted 2020). Of the 8 known economists who predicted 2008 crisis, 5 were Marxists.”
That’s your take.
My take is that the ‘system of discourse’ is owned lock stock and barrel by stakeholders. The ridicolous statement that the substantial middle classes of society — equally disdained by both poles of the “closed system, by invitation only” polemics — has not produced a refutation of Marxism and that fact is “proof” of correctness of Marxist ideology, appears to be the sticking point in our conversation.
5 of 8 were Marxists. Post the C.V. of these Marxists economists; let’s see who puts bread on their table.
Also again note that legions of ‘voiceless’ middle class thinking set also expected the meltdown. (Don’t roll out the straw man of “establishment” being “caught unwares”.)
vk: “7) It doesn’t add up that you must fight imbecility with imbecility. If Marx was an imbecile, there would be no reason for one and a half century-worth of generations of bourgeois economists to lower themselves to imbecility just for the sake of fighting an imbecile that died in the 19th Century.”
This is the continuation of the red herring earlier, or possibly I have not communicated effectively. ALL participants were “imbeciles” as you put it.
vk: “8) Marx was a genius, the top of his class (of already brilliant students). He easily got his masters and Ph.D. – both with a specialization in logic. He would have a brilliant and prosperous career if he wasn’t purged by the Kaiser.”
Do you doubt that there were *towering intellects* in Scholasticism?
Did “genius” take a vacation prior to 19th century?
It is silly to parade Marx’s intellectual resources here. I did use the word “mindset”, and you apparently missed it!
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 15:02 utc | 101
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 13:31 utc | 96
On the 4th of August, at 15:00 local time, a blacksmith was asked to close the holes in the warehouse to prevent potential smuggling of the content. The blacksmith was not informed about the hazardous content of the warehouse, nor he was told to take the necessary precautions to prevent the spread of metal particles that produce fragments and can trigger a fire. He was working at a distance no more than a few centimetres from the AN bags that were lying on the floor, from which a clear substance was leaking. Once the job was done, between 16:30 and 17:00, smoke was seen coming from the warehouse.
Magnier says nothing about the fireworks explosion which happened first and for which there is a substantial amount of video evidence (fwiw).
He seems to be saying that maintenance operations directly on the AN store caused the detonation. However the fireworks explosion happened first and for a long time before the AN explosion. This raises the question of whether the maintenance was being conducted on the AN store or the fireworks store or anything at all …
Posted by: Traiano Welcome | Aug 7 2020 15:03 utc | 102
One more example illustrating why you must not trust random doctors giving their advice on a newspaper:
There’s no medical reason for keeping schools shut. In fact, it is causing much more harm to children than Covid-19 ever could
By Malcolm Kendrick, doctor and author who works as a GP in the National Health Service in England. His blog can be read here and his book, ‘Doctoring Data – How to Sort Out Medical Advice from Medical Nonsense,’ is available here.
On the surface, one would think this Malcolm Kendrick is an authority on the subject. He’s a doctor, after all.
But one would be wrong. Here’s his rationale:
Keeping schools closed, as many teaching unions want, will cause more injuries and deaths to children and long-term damage to their educations. Yet the threat from Covid-19 to them – and to their teachers – is tiny.
Has the world ever been more frightened of something less frightening? For people aged seventy and above, who have underlying health problems, Covid-19 is something to be extremely concerned about. For those under twenty, the risk of death is almost non-existent.
The problem here is that we must differentiate between a clinical problem from an epidemiological problem. The rationale behind the lockdowns (and school-closing) is not on patient-by-patient risk, but patterns of disease spread.
The epidemiologist is not worried about one random patient dying or surviving a given disease, by the risk-reward ratio of said disease given its death rate and infectiousness.
A doctor doesn’t need to worry about how many people are infected, he only needs to treat his patient. Mr. Kendrick is looking at the problem from a doctor’s point of view, not an epidemiologist’s.
The fact that he rationalizes as a clinical doctor becomes evident when he adventures on the realm of statistics, where he makes absurd comparisons with car accidents and domestic accidents. The problem is 1) those risks are not offset by being infected with COVID-19, they pile up, and 2) those risks have an economic nature, not a medical one. Children die more at their own home for the simple fact they spend most of their lives at home. Car accidents are preventable in the act of driving, while COVID-19 prevention can only come with a lockdown.
Besides, one has to suspect from the fact that he has a blog and he’s trying to sell a book.
george floyd was a small time criminal. the cops should have given him a ticket, or just taken him to jail instead of choking him to death. instead, the murderous thugs executed him in the street. anybody that excuses this is a bootkissing piece of crap.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 7 2020 15:08 utc | 104
oh, and trump the peacemaker is nominating elliot abrams, noted war criminal and apologist for massacres in el salvador, to be the special representative to iran, as well as being the special representative to venezuela, which he has been busily working to destabilize. he’s a pro israel extremist.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 7 2020 15:13 utc | 105
Well, that didn’t last long:
Hezbollah Leader Calls Beirut Blast ‘Exceptional Event in Lebanon’s Modern History’
Sure, the mayor of Beirut (or governor, I don’t know the title) will try to feed the conspiracy hype to avoid prison, but let’s get real: if you keep 2.7 t of AN in your port, side-by-side with a fireworks deposit, then you lose any rights to blame your enemies.
I’m sorry for the nuke-squad here. So much time of your lives lost.
–//–
@ Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 15:02 utc | 101
I understand this is a just a blog’s comment section, and there’s no place to do peer-reviewed shit here.
But it is clear you never read Marx nor have any idea of Western 19th Century History, so I don’t think we can continue with the debate here.
And it is not me stating Marx was a genius: it’s his contemporaries.
–//–
@ Posted by: Den lille abe | Aug 7 2020 14:09 utc | 98
The cop-cam or the Floyd incident was released this week. It basically confirms Floyd’s wife’s version of the story.
The police officer’s version states Floyd was under the effect of strong drugs and hallucinating, and that he died because of the drugs, not the chokehold itself.
But the wife told from the beginning he had mental problems and did not take drugs. Having mental problems is not a crime worth of a death sentence in the USA (as far as I know).
Besides, it is weird for a group of cops to wait someone on the outside of a grocery store, under the suspicion he used a fake USD 20 bill.
vk:
That was an ad hom and a deflection.
Human history is littered with geniuses who, being subject to the dominant cultural mindset of their age, made very wrong claims. You should read some of Aristotle’s bon mots. He was a genius too.
And the fact that establishment press chose to broadcast the name of Marx out of obscurity is actually not a point in your favor.
It seems what is necessary is for you to define what you mean by “science” since you bandy that word a lot in this forum in support of your ideology.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 15:48 utc | 107
U.S.A.’s new standing in the world:
MAGA
😂😆😂😆😂😆😂
I must say, my respect for Richard Silverstein is starting to return.
Here’s why.
beirut-blast-initiated-by-munitions-explosions
___________
Oh and reading the comments section there I found yet another reason why the Trump regime must end in November.
Elliot Abrams will now handle Venezuela AND Iran.
🤮
hook-resigns-replaced-abrams
Posted by: Circe | Aug 7 2020 15:59 utc | 108
“Baer said he thinks that there were military munitions and propellants present. He speculated it could have been a weapons cache, but it’s unclear who it belongs to.”
Baer said this on CNN. 🙂
https://www.moonofalabama.org/images10/beirut3.jpg
This is the adjacent a warehouse. Both were in full view of a wall of high rises with lots of eyeballs. And that above, courtesy of MOA, is a picture of what sort of “security” these structures enjoyed.
It is laughable. Who parked munitions in that warehouse?
Next stop, some “ex-CIA” analyst, or possible a “slip” from Israeli “sources”, will claim someone dug an underground facility in the Port of Beirut, right in front of a zillion eyeballs. Must have been a hell of a civil engineering effort to move all that displaced earth without being seen!
Please use your heads.
Also p.s. Circe, what you said about karma was so distasteful. No wonder you keep getting bern’d. Fix your mental caps lock, dear.
Your “CIA” analyst, Circe, with help of CNN, is seeding the soft heads.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 16:10 utc | 109
Circe
It’s just more crap from CNN and a supposedly ex spook.
“It was clearly a military explosive,” he said. “It was not fertilizer like ammonium nitrate. I’m quite sure of that. You look at that orange ball (of fire), and it’s clearly…a military explosive.”
The red smoke is nitrogen dioxide. There’s couple of other nitrogen oxides but apparently it’s the dioxide that gives red or orange smoke. When ammonium nitrate detonates without, or with very little fuel, it breaks down into nitrogen dioxide and water.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 16:11 utc | 110
Traiano Welcome 102
Some of what Magnier wrote about the fire and explosions did not match what I can see on videos. Magnier is very good on the various factions and people through Lebanon, Syria and Iraq.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 16:22 utc | 111
Peter AU1, Traiano Welcome
Once again, I find that Magnier is not credible.
- Magnier doesn’t say how he knows that a “blacksmith” was called.
b pointed to a new report that refers to “welders”. Where does Magnier’s information about a “blacksmith” come from? - Magnier states (as fact) that: “The blacksmith was not informed about the hazardous content of the warehouse, nor he was told to take the necessary precautions …” but a few sentences later Magnier asks: “Was he [the blacksmith] informed of the hazard of welding next to Ammonium Nitrate?”
- Magnire then attempts to clear US and Israel of any guilt by claiming that they had nothing to gain:
- The affected area belongs mainly to people who are not generally friendly to Hezbollah. Therefore, it would not have been in Israel’s interest nor in that of the US to bomb and cause so much damage to the properties and businesses of friendly parties.
- Destroying this part of Beirut in order to impose a “new Middle East” or a “new Lebanon” makes no sense either, because the anti-Hezbollah population is currently weaker than ever and is not in a position to confront Hezbollah. France and the US are in no better position to influence the population.
This is hand-waiving nonsense. The explosion has made Lebanon greatly dependent on outside aid and USA/France and other Western countries now have greater influence as a result.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 16:29 utc | 112
Jackrabbit
In places, a steel worker – welding and so forth can be referred to as a blacksmith. I’ve run onto that now and then in the past.
I think Magnier’s take on the people around the port and controlling the port will be close to the mark. Too many people with lurks and perks but not particularly qualified for the job.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 16:39 utc | 113
@ Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 15:48 utc | 107
???
The points raised by me in my previous comment are not mine, but result of a century of historians investigating and studying the subject.
You just used the technique of the “reverse Uno card” and called it a day. You are the one spinning words, not me.
It is very odd than Magnier does not mention the first fire, supposedly of “fireworks” (but which indeed does not look much like the video of the Enschede catastrophe). Some preliminary report mentioned that fire to have started in the morning, but the picture of the firemen is indeed of the afternoon, so on that Magnier is correct.
https://twitter.com/naderNakib/status/1291003867153432576
Posted by: Mina | Aug 7 2020 16:54 utc | 115
Peter AU1 @Aug7 16:39 #113
a steel worker – welding and so forth can be referred to as a blacksmith
I’m aware of the similarities and the colloquial usage. But blacksmiths are different than welders. Blacksmiths can do welding but they do a lot more than that.
What was needed was welding. One can call a welding company for that or a blacksmith. But either way “welder” is a more appropriate term for who shows up to do the work because that’s the work that’s being done.
Every report I’ve seen refers to “welder”. Magnier uses “blacksmith”. That indicates that he has a different source.
Was a blacksmith company contacted to provide welders? Then Magnier should’ve provided the name of the blacksmith company. But he didn’t. Probably because he doesn’t know.
Magnier’s coy use of “blacksmith” amounts to false reporting unless he knows that a blacksmith company was engaged instead of a welding company.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 16:57 utc | 116
Why is it that …
… we know more about the Russian that abandoned the ship 6 years ago than about the welder(s) that supposedly started the fire.
… we hear more speculation about a nuke or missile attack than we do about the much more likely scenario of simple sabotage.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 17:04 utc | 117
Mina @Aug7 16:54 #115
It is very odd than Magnier does not mention the first fire, supposedly of “fireworks”
Good point Mina. I should’ve added that to my list.
Magnier is not credible (once again).
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 17:08 utc | 118
jackrabbit… we have to remember people are being translated from another language and different culture… i agree with peter that there is a difference between blacksmith and welder… mostly blacksmith is old school and welder is more of a modern term… but without knowing the nature of arabic and the culture, i think it would be easy to mix these 2 terms…. language and culture are very important considerations, but tricky to comprehend when it is not our own…
Posted by: james | Aug 7 2020 17:12 utc | 119
Syrian blacksmith.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HqjA-i4P4
Another Syrian blacksmith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aXWnC9A4GM
Kurdish blacksmith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukn8UKnC9ek
A more traditional blacksmith in Mosul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysjkIFJ4OoI
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 17:28 utc | 120
Greeting all.
“Second Canadian sentenced to death in China this week on drugs charges”
A Chinese court Friday sentenced Ye Jianhui to death a second Canadian this week for manufacturing and transporting illicit drugs. Another Canadian earlier receives the death sentence on drugs-related charges earlier.
Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou Tit-for-tat saga continues, now more likely she is extradited to USA and faces trial for a crime conspired jointly by Canada and USA with HSBC helped. HSBC now facing pressure net profit plummeted 96% 2nd Qtr. of this year forced massive layoffs. This will be one of the many payback actions Boris will faces for U-turn Huawei 5G.
My tea leaves reading telling me the next few days and weeks’ China and USA coexistence deteriorating rapidly. “If war breaks out between China and the US, which side will have the upper hand?” Hu Xijin Global Times asked in his editorial. He added “My suggestion is that under no circumstances should the Chinese military fire the first shot. But I am confident that China will be well prepared to fire a second shot as a response to the first shot.”. Its war baby between two superpowers and not China a continues civil wars from the 49′ founding of People Republic of China.
Now let us closed our eyes and pray, hope god help Trump undo his stoopidity. MAGA, Amen.
If war breaks out between China and the US, which side will have the upper hand?
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1197027.shtml
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UctriMuXYS0
Posted by: JC | Aug 7 2020 17:32 utc | 121
Walter @94–
Franklin is the author of this essay I linked @48. John Brewer wrote an excellent book, Sinews of Power: War, Money and the English State, 1688-1783, I discovered by following up on a footnote from one of Chomsky’s works–Deterring Democracy if I recall correctly–of which my copy is full of underlined text, marginal notes, and dog-eared pages. Also of interest is Bernard Bailyn’s The New England Merchants in the Seventeenth Century as their rise coincides with that of the Bank of England and their rising influence within Parliament as a lobby. Without the Bank and Spain having looted most of the treasure from its vast empire of colonies so there wasn’t much point in piracy anymore, England wouldn’t have amounted to much. Indeed, the connection between the Bank and England’s Rentiers is likely where the germ for the return to Feudalism (Now known as Neoliberalism) and the required manipulation arose after the closing of the Slave Trade and beginnings of the US Civil War. Ties between NY bankers and City of London from 1790 onward needs a close examination, which I’ll need to look for. But the entire affair is certainly multi-generational and involves very Old Money organized as Private Corporations. For example, what banks were tight with Sullivan & Cromwell, the Dulles Bros law firm? In an aside, Franklin says: “The Dulles brothers’ pre-war story is told powerfully by Nancy Lisagor and Frank Lipsius in A Law Unto Itself: The Untold Story of the Law Firm Sullivan & Cromwell, which I see is freely available at The Archive.
IMO, much of the research has already been done but hasn’t been collated into a coherent narrative telling us how we got to where we are today. It’s the old 12 hands on the elephant describing what section they feel but not the entire beast. Thanks for continuing to push on this subject!
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 7 2020 17:50 utc | 122
Australia seeking gains by escalating regional tensions
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1196973.shtml
Good reading from Global Times and me favorite Ozzie pm Kevin Rudd. Everywhere war is looming with Idiot Trump ratcheting sanctions and stoopid actions… Time is ticking TikToking…
Posted by: JC | Aug 7 2020 17:53 utc | 123
/RANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I keep reading about how Trump is going to sign an executive order suspending employees payment of what he and other call payroll tax when in reality it is an insurance payment, not a tax
Why is the lie about the Social Security Insurance program being a payroll tax allowed to continue?
Fuck American liars, all of them!
/end RANT
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 7 2020 18:33 utc | 124
@ gepay | Aug 6 2020 20:11 utc | 57
Responding to your comment. Much can be known about fires and fire conditions by the smoke they emit. A fire contained such as a building will emit a dark smoke whereas a fire burning openly has a greyish smoke due to more complete oxidation of whatever is burning. Tyres and petroleum have a dark black smoke even when burning openly due to incomplete oxidation of burning substance. Oxidising nitrogen has a fairly large set of combustion byproducts that are heavily dependent on burning conditions and you might visit wikipedia on that.
What was observed was a tall column of ‘smoke’ of orangish-red with no smoke above it. Witnessed parallel sound was of two explosions, the first strong shortly followed by the massive second. These are seen in the smoke column begin with clear air above the reddish orange part of the column. This colour likely indicates when the fire was contained (in the warehouse) and combustion was either incomplete or at a low energy like on the surface filling the warehouse space before the first explosion, possibly a flashover event, that liberated the reddish smoke at the top of the column. Once that atmosphere cleared the burning surface, one saw a change in colour of the smoke that likely indicates a change to free burning of the substance making up the bottom half of the column out of which the white cloud of the shock wave emerged when the substance began chaotic burning after achieving the required energy levels to trigger the chaotic combustion of the final explosion. Once the white cloud dissipated (after enveloping the smoke column) there was very little disturbance to the smoke in the column itself from early visual records but the damage was extensive. Watching the efforts to extinguish subsequent fires it is interesting to note the free burning fires smoke changed from dark to greyish white as water was applied showing the effect of steam in extinguishing those fires. Much can be known about a fire from the smoke it produces if one might know about the ways of fire. The fact to know about ammonium nitrate is it can self oxidise under the correct conditions which makes it so dangerous but can nourish plant growth as well.
The remit of no one was apparently sufficient to take complete responsibility for the disaster and looking for some one to blame will only result in another injustice being born. Few outstanding products are made by committees but few committees are hung as well. Looking for scapegoats before burying the dead seldom has a happy ending. Your milage may vary.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 7 2020 18:45 utc | 125
@ptb | 4
A couple of very interesting articles on the Turkish Lira here.
There are so many rumours going around as to the reason for the fall. One former AKP minister was on Fox this morning praising Al Bayrak and blaming a syndicate in London with a fund of $50bn available to them to scupper the Lira )))
https://www.intellinews.com/turkey-s-money-markets-starting-to-malfunction-say-analysts-with-lira-back-beyond-seven-to-dollar-189073/
Anyway, the first article is a slightly more reasoned and knowledgeable analysis.
The second article is about the pressure on Turkish Cyprus which is often ignored when discussing negative events in Turkey. But given the ‘state’s’ dependence on Turkey, it is actually very vulnerable.
https://www.financialmirror.com/2020/08/01/turkish-cypriot-economy-squeezed-as-lira-collapses/
(DOES ANYONE KNOW why the text box for comments doesn’t resize according to browser size and the text your typing doesn’t wrap. What is going on? It’s annoying as hell!!)
Posted by: AtaBrit | Aug 7 2020 18:46 utc | 126
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 17:04 utc | 117
I wonder what a jack rabbit looks like after visiting Occam’s Beauty Shop.
We know based on sourced reports that the minister in charge of Public Works contacted the Port Director on Monday about the fertilizer stored in the port.
The very next day the blast occurs. Not the day before, not weeks after this phone call. The NEXT DAY.
I am certain minister Nijjar has more than once wondered if his phone call is the actual catalyst of the mishap. I case of unintended consequences, here the ‘intent’ being ‘doing the right thing’. It is ironic.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 19:02 utc | 127
Hassan Koraytem:
https://www.facebook.com/lfslb/photos/rame-beirut-2019-will-be-hosting-mr-hassan-koraytem-director-general-of-the-comp/2068240720147302/
The company that runs the port:
https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/GEPB:FP
http://www.portdebeyrouth.com
My guess is that his time was mostly spent on the port extension plans for Beirut. He actually doesn’t look unintelligent.
http://www.portdebeyrouth.com/index.php/en/about-us/expansion
What he says about the materials in the warehouse:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/beirut-port-head-said-explosive-material-was-warehoused-based-on-court-order/story-MABsH94FrQFUxVHricInCN.html
—
Sabbotage would be a reasonable possibility were it not for the 1-2-3 of (1) Minister of Public Works putting on pressure on Director General of ports and (2) his scrambling to ‘get the facts’ for the minister, to (3) the tragic incident.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 19:13 utc | 128
Posted by: vk | Aug 7 2020 16:49 utc | 114
I was expecting something more robust from you. But fine, I’ll take this as “the defense rests”.
(Never played Uno! Now I have to go and read all about reverse card tactic..)
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 19:19 utc | 129
Walter @94–
To continue my comment @122, I clicked on link that provided the following snippet from a review of A Law Unto Itself, which needs to be read at the source, reviewed by Tony Freyer, with the key info located in the second paragraph based on the Friedman quote, where two books are suggested making the total three just to pursue that line of inquiry, which will likely expand further and certainly will now that I’ve peeked at the Swaine book. I do so wish I could digest all this information more rapidly.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 7 2020 19:32 utc | 130
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 16:10 utc | 109
You know what I find distasteful: all the crimes and betrayals committed by Christian and Sunni Lebanese against Shia and Palestinians over the years and I really find distasteful your bold-face type.
Karma is justice. Get used to it.
Posted by: Circe | Aug 7 2020 19:48 utc | 131
Does anyone knows the exact time and date when this video was taken on Aug 4th?
https://mobile.twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1290976525764919297
Anyway, the flashes do not look like fireworks to me.
Posted by: Mina | Aug 7 2020 19:55 utc | 132
Magnier has a series of tweets that make things clearer, not two warehouses but “door 9” or “warehouse 12”
https://mobile.twitter.com/ejmalrai
Posted by: Mina | Aug 7 2020 19:59 utc | 133
Here is the clue “some old ammunitions”
https://mobile.twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1291759621531631617
Sounds a bit short, frankly.
Posted by: Mina | Aug 7 2020 20:02 utc | 134
Circe, who have never likely stepped in Lebanon says: “all the crimes and betrayals committed by Christian and Sunni Lebanese against Shia”
You remind me of that other hypocritcal hothead, Jonas.
And should not I have pity on Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand, and also much cattle?
A reasonable ‘judge’ here is pointing out to the hothead that collective punishment via guilt by association is not justice.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 20:05 utc | 135
Mina
9:42 PM · Aug 5, 2020. That’s twitter time (UTC?) when it was posted. Whoever owned the phone most likely is no longer around.
Looks like fire works to me. There various video around of vehicles burning with ammo in them and they are different to this.
I hadn’t watched that video full screen before but you clearly see the ammonium nitrate detonating. Fire works stacked up against the ammonium nitrate in the same shed. I doubt there was any partition because the skeletons of all the other shed don’t have partitions. Whoever done that should literally be dragged out and shot. Its pretty obvious by the everyone is standing around that no one had a clue what was in there.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 20:24 utc | 136
@135
Spare me your religious claptrap. But since you peddle in it. Look up the sins of the father.
Here, I’ll make it easy: [God] does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth [generation]. (Exodus 34:7b)
Karma is universal law and the cure for ignorance and religion is man made law, but sometimes they converge in the truth, and often religion makes people more ignorant whilst karma doesn’t do that. Karma ensures a rude awakening, religion or no religion, and it’s relentless and will recur until you get it, your children get it and so on.
Posted by: Circe | Aug 7 2020 20:42 utc | 137
Posted by: Mina | Aug 7 2020 16:54 utc | 115
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeqRLCpXYAEKhbM?format=jpg
There is something odd about that picture.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 20:42 utc | 138
Posted by: Circe | Aug 7 2020 20:42 utc | 137
I wasn’t pushing religion on you. Just noting that even the famously angry god of Bible is more reasonable than hotheads like you.
As to the “religion” that you are peddling here, something with “universal law” and the progressive “cure” for “ignorance”, which results in I and my children “get it”.
That is the whole point, you hothead. I didn’t quote that bit of bible to peddle a religion. It just happens to be a compact readymade that is applicable.
“Don’t know their left from their right hand” means they are not not cognizant of their actions. What is required for this “universal law” of “karma” that its subject actors “get it”? Knowing the ‘error’ that is the cause of karmic spanking. Spank! “don’t do ‘that’ again” Spank!
It is ridicolous to hold a member of one sect of Lebanon “responsible” for actions of their militant set in a civil war. Most people the world over are literally hostages to a minority that is over them and defines who they are to outsiders, regardless of how distorted the picture is, or whether their actions truly reflect the group consensus.
You hotheads are definitely part of the longstanding problems of humanity. Let’s hope they will find a cure.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 20:58 utc | 139
From Reuters
” United States President Donald Trump, told his Lebanese counterpart Michel Aoun, in a phone call, that he will be at Paris conference called for by French President Emmanuel Macron to support Lebanon and provide aid, Lebanese presidency announced on twitter on Friday.
Macron said on Thursday that France will organize an international aid conference for Lebanon, and he promised “transparent governance” so the aid goes to the people, NGOs and relief groups and not to the ruling elite which has been accused of corruption and mismanagement.”
………..
I reckon I could guarantee that Lebanon would be better off without Trump and Macron’s aid. Trump’s only aim will be to make life hard for Hezbollah.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 21:03 utc | 140
james, Peter AU1
Sorry, it’s not just a semantic issue.
Every other story references “welders”. So Magnier is different. It is valid and appropriate to ask WHY he is different.
A good assumption is that he got information from a source other than 1) the news reports we’ve seen, or 2) the sources that those news reports have used.
But Magnier doesn’t tell us what his sources are. In fact, he rarely reveals his sources. Instead he describes them as “high up” or “connected” to this or that.
One might well view Magnier as more of a gossip columnist than a reporter.
<> <> <> <> <>
But the semantics and questionable sources are not the only problems.
Mina and I have raised other problems with his reporting that you have ignored.
And it’s not just this one time. There have been problems with his prior “reporting”/gossip as well.
I don’t view Magnier any differently than other analysts. All them have to be read with some caution. For example, I often disagree with b on US politics.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 21:11 utc | 141
Fireworks vs ammunition. In burning vehicles the ammunition explodes in place and bits and pieces fly out sometimes going off like a string fire crackers.
In the warehouse fire, there are small bright flashes all through the smoke and the flashes are more a grey blue than orange.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 21:12 utc | 142
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 21:03 utc | 140
“I reckon I could guarantee that Lebanon would be better off without Trump and Macron’s aid.”
This is the beginning of the end of Hezbollah. The French are no different from the Brit but French Macron is more cunning than Boris. Thats the only credit I can give Macro.
Posted by: JC | Aug 7 2020 21:14 utc | 143
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 21:11 utc | 141
You are the Best even better than b?
Posted by: JC | Aug 7 2020 21:17 utc | 144
Posted by: Mina | Aug 7 2020 16:54 utc | 115
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeqRLCpXYAEKhbM?format=jpg
There is something odd about that picture.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 20:42 utc | 138
I’m off the fence on this on.
This picture is a photoshop job. That woman was not in the original picture. (Use your hand to cover her and take another look.)
First issue is where is she supposed to be sitting?
If that picture is not a fake, then she also must be tiny, a midget practically. The guy next to her has a head twice as big as hers. The left hand of the guy sitting behind her (so 1 1/2 feet?) starts from her eyebrows and goes all the way to her mouth. I just did a check in mirror on how much of my face my hands would span. Try it.
Then there is the smiles all around. Is this joy at finally getting to battle a fire? When I cover the woman in picture, it looks like a pic taken by a windshield cam at the occupants of a van in motion.
We should find out who first posted this pic to the world at large. And if they use this as supporting evidence for an “initial fire” story, it would be disquieting.
Posted by: conspiracy-theorist | Aug 7 2020 21:22 utc | 145
JC @Aug7 21:17 #144
You are the Best even better than b?
I didn’t say I was.
You comment adds nothing to the conversation.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 21:31 utc | 146
@128
Learn to use the html tags for your endless links since you think you know it all and stop f…king up every thread!
Posted by: Circe | Aug 7 2020 21:32 utc | 147
@130 Cont’d–
The Cravath Firm and Its Predecessors, 1819-1948 is a three volume work privately published but publicly reviewed and archived, which in my case is excellent as the review tells me its worth pursuing the information it contains as this excerpt shows:
“Big Business, Big Labor and Big Government are all here to stay. But in the gigantic concentrated power of their aggregate collectivism there is real danger that they may be leading us along the road to state collectivism. If we believe that such an end would be a tragedy, and that individual freedom of opportunity in a system of private enterprise should be maintained, it behooves all of us who render ‘specialized service to business and finance’ to seek such solutions of the legal problems of our clients as are compatible with changing social concepts and as will avoid the abuses of economic power to which our profession too often contributed in past decades.” [My Emphasis]
One wonders what the author would say now if he were alive. The bolded text for me is a confession, and it’s likely the tome contains more. Further on in the review, a picture of the times of its publication, 1949, is drawn, and IMO that alone is worth the time taken to read. The reviewer was Eugene V. Rostow, then a professor of Law at Yale, who certainly employed crafty, “intelligent,” prose in his work, and who once worked for Cravath, a fact not acknowledged in his review.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 7 2020 21:40 utc | 148
Magnier’s picture of the “blacksmith”
1) There is no welding equipment visible in the picture that Magnier claims is the blacksmith and assistants.
2) b used the same picture but didn’t claim that it showed the blacksmith that supposedly caused the fire. I am quite sure b would’ve told us if the pic showed the blacksmith.
3) In fact, anyone having a picture of the welder/blacksmith that caused the fire as he worked in the minutes before the fire and explosion could sell it for a lot money. And they would certainly make it know exactly what the circumstances of the picture is.
<> <> <> <> <>
Magnier claims the blacksmith is in custody. Despite his great sources, he can’t tell us who they are or what the company is?
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 21:42 utc | 149
@Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 21:03 utc | 140
Apart from trying to restart a color revolution, another goal they could be after is what Nasrallah already warned in 2019:
Back in 2019, Sayyed Nasrallah categorically denied the ‘Israeli’ claims that Hezbollah is using Beirut Port to transfer weapons or components of weapons, warning further of the intention behind this impose a guardianship over the port, the airport and the borders.
https://twitter.com/Eng_AhedNews/status/1291706531256434688
He means obviously international guardianship, which would equate a total blockade of Lebanon. Remember what happened with the guardianship of Hodeyda Port in Yemen Red Sea coast, supplies were blockaded even from UN, while strikes not…
Interesting remarks from his today´s speech about ports…
Sayyed Nasrallah: Hezbollah might have knowledge of what exists at Haifa’s port, but not at Beirut’s port, because this is not our responsibility.
https://twitter.com/Eng_AhedNews/status/1291754822996307968
Another interesting step so that probe keeps safe…Nasrallah, btw, in his speech, has trusted the Lebanese Army for the investigation of the probe…
In compliance with the Lebanese army’s decision to restrict relief operations in that area to the Red Cross organization, the Society will remain ready to provide all possible forms of care to our people in all Lebanese regions.
https://twitter.com/Eng_AhedNews/status/1291762541429952514
Main remarks of his speech:
https://www.english.alahednews.com.lb/54560/385
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 7 2020 21:44 utc | 150
Formerly T-Bear
When going through this video frame by frame there are two explosions. the smoke detonates which then detonates the ammonium nitrate. https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1290976525764919297
@all. A few witnesses spoke of hearing an aircraft but none was seen. I believe that will be the roaring sound from the fire just prior to detonation. In another video very high velocity flames like a blowtorch could seen and it can be heard in this video.
In reading through again what I could find of the truck explosion in Queensland a woman was interviewed who lived in a farm house, I think about 12k away from the explosion said she heard two distinct blasts although none who where caught in the explosion noticed. So possibly the same thing there. The smoke detonates first which sets off the ammonium nitrate?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 21:46 utc | 151
We all are b guests, whether we like it or not. Give our host at least a weenie mini respect try not constantly criticizing him. GTFO if you cannot stand b, like I did in Saker’s site – a walking bible. PERIOD! Been to Magnier’s site very early but finds it hard read if he posted in French? He’s good like it or not, everyone has difference opinions or points of views. I like voltairenet or Thierry Meyssan and based in Syria. However, my Opera and Yandex dun accept voltairenet, so I activated FireFox…
https://www.voltairenet.org/en
Posted by: JC | Aug 7 2020 21:48 utc | 152
@ 141 jackrabbit… magnier is inconsistent.. i will give you that! if you are uncomfortable resting on his commentary, i understand that too.. perhaps more will become available moving forward… cheers..
Posted by: james | Aug 7 2020 21:49 utc | 153
conspiracy-theorist @Aug7 19:02 #127
We know based on sourced reports that the minister in charge of Public Works contacted the Port Director on Monday about the fertilizer stored in the port.
Lebanon is so corrupt, but we can trust “sourced reports”? Let’s all turn off our brain because we have “sourced reports”?
The ammonium nitrate (AN) was so dangerous that the opening of the warehouse had to be closed IMMEDIATELY despite no attempt to steal the AN for six years?
And it was so dangerous but the blacksmith was not informed of the danger?
Doesn’t add up.
=
… unintended consequences, here the ‘intent’ being ‘doing the right thing’.
The “right thing” was to not store the AN on the dock in the first place or to remove it asap. Lets not be confused. The “right thing” was avoided … until it made for a convenient cover story.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 21:54 utc | 154
conspiracy-theorist
beirut-explosion-relatives-mourn-three-missing-firefighters-from-same-family
female-firefighter-dubbed-bride-of-beirut-is-buried-in-emotional-funeral
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 22:03 utc | 155
Get a load of CNN’s coverage of the Indian airliner crash landing
You’d have to be a detective to find the only mention of the word “Boeing” in about 8 stories/updates. And they never specifically say that the plane which crashed was a Boeing 737 variant. You’d think that CNN’s corporate masters must own stock in Boeing or something…
Posted by: Hank | Aug 7 2020 22:06 utc | 156
james @Aug7 21:49 #153
We are offered the accepted/acceptable view that the explosion was just an accident or the propaganda that proposes an incredible view: missile or nuke attack.
The possibility for something between these extremes, like sabotage, is discounted/unwanted.
We can’t avoid the fact that this explosion puts Lebanon at the mercy of foreign donors. And those donors will seek to disadvantage Hezbollah. It could mean a renewed Civil War and lead to foreign intervention and an expansion of the Syrian proxy war. So the ‘cui bono’ question is not an idle one.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 22:06 utc | 157
Check out CNN’s coverage of the Indian airliner crash. They never once state explicitly that it was a Boeing 737, in fact you will have to scroll down about 3/4ths of the page to find out that the airliner “operates 25 Boeing 737s” but never is one specifically tied to this crash. Wonder why….
Posted by: _K_C_ | Aug 7 2020 22:10 utc | 158
Preliminary Injunction Sought to Release Hydroxychloroquine to the Public (from June 2020)
“Today the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons filed its motion for a preliminary injunction to compel release to the public of hydroxychloroquine by the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) and the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS)… Nearly 100 million doses of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) were donated to these agencies, and yet they have not released virtually any of it to the public.
“Why does the government continue to withhold more than 60 million doses of HCQ from the public?” asks Jane Orient, M.D., the Executive Director of AAPS. “This potentially life-saving medication is wasting away in government warehouses while Americans are dying from COVID-19.” “
The article includes an interesting table which compares coronavirus case fatalities between those countries that allow/encourage the use of HCQ and those that prevent/discourage its use.
(For the record I see the use of HCQ as a widespread and ongoing prophylactic as impractical, undesirable and [for most people] unnecessary, but its use [in particular for early-stage treatment] should at least be left to the informed consent/discretion of patient/doctor.)
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 7 2020 22:10 utc | 159
Re my post @151
What I thought was the smoke detonating can’t be right as when viewed from other angles there are two separate smoke clouds.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 22:10 utc | 160
We also now have a slew of “mysterious attacks” in the Middle East.
Tanker attacks in the Persion Gulf.
PNU Warehouses in Iraq (Netanyahu admitted that Israel was being these).
Industrial accidents in Iran.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 22:13 utc | 161
LOL @ CNN
They don’t even mention the words Boeing or 737 until the LAST sentence of the rather long (for CNN) article. And they never refer to the plane that crashed as anything other than its flight number. Corporate media running cover for Boeing?
Posted by: _K_C_ | Aug 7 2020 22:15 utc | 162
Peter AU1 @Aug7 22:10 #159
smoke
There’s a bigger problem with the smoke of the fire before the big explosion: about half of it is black. That indicates burning fuel.
Why would there be fuel in or near a warehouse full of AN?
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 22:16 utc | 163
james
I’m surprised by your last comment at the SST discussion: “Yes George Floyd Killed Himself”.
Did you not think my comment @Aug6 15:59 #9 was credible? Did you not think I sufficiently refuted the notion that George Floyd killed himself?
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 7 2020 22:27 utc | 164
H.Schmatz 150
Whatever their scheming up, I think will be along the lines of getting Hezbollah out of government and more if possible as in civil war. US have designated Hezbollah a terrorist organisation and the one of the reasons for Trump’s sanctions on Lebanon.
I cant see him giving any aid nor letting France give aid to Lebanon. He kept adding sanctions onto Iran and Venezuela even with the coronavirus.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 23:00 utc | 165
9am, 8/8/20, for the first time (I would bet) Radio New Zealand News led with the words of Hassan Nasrallah
“Not a weapons cache, not a missile factory, not a single missile, not a single rifle, not a single bomb, not a bullet, not nitrates. Nothing at all. Not now, not in the past,” he declared in a speech.
This was relayed by the snivelling BBC Sebastian Usher, who in a manner classic for his companies ilk added “Mr Nasrallah’s denial is necessary because many Lebanese believe the exact opposite – he needs to shore up his position and that of his movement, which still wields decisive power in Lebanon.”
With regard to Micron and Lebanon, I remember President Assad once told Sarkozy (in French) “to go fuck himself”.
Posted by: tucenz | Aug 7 2020 23:19 utc | 166
@ Aug 7 2020 22:16 utc | 162
“Fuel” can be read as anything that can burn. It could be assorted plastics.
PS: why are people bothering with that blog run by Hillary’s buddy?
Posted by: Lurk | Aug 7 2020 23:34 utc | 167
@ Peter AU1 | Aug 7 2020 23:00 utc | 164
The fact that the “Lebanon conference” is to be held in Paris just about tells you all: an attempted reboot of colonialism. Same old, same old.
Posted by: Lurk | Aug 7 2020 23:36 utc | 168
Jackrabbit – I went to the SST comment thread and there is no comment at 15:59, nor is any comment with the handle “jackrabbit” visible anywhere. Are you sure you’re not shadow banned over there? I’d be interested in reading what you had to say, but I’ll tell you right now – nobody else is seeing it.
Posted by: _K_C_ | Aug 8 2020 0:00 utc | 169
I am not qualified to do the calculations, nor do I have access to the appropriate information, but it seems that calculations can be made regarding the crevice made in the port which some allege is solid rock, others speculate is sand — this needs to be properly determined, to come toa conclusion as to whether the ignition of somewhat degraded AN due to bad storage conditions could actually be the sole cause of this horrendous human catastrophe.
Posted by: suzan | Aug 8 2020 0:48 utc | 170
@Posted by: suzan | Aug 8 2020 0:48 utc | 169
The port was built on solid rock, the reason why there are people who do not swallow that the AN did such damage by itself…
Posted by: H.Schmatz | Aug 8 2020 1:09 utc | 171
Lurk @Aug7 23:34 #166
It could be assorted plastics.
It could be but …
… not all plastics are easily combustible so that a fire would spread like it apparently did in this case;
… we still don’t know why proper safety precautions weren’t taken wrt the work that was performed;
… there would have to be a lot of plastics.
@conspiracy-theorist: what does Occam’s Razor say? plastics fire just as the authorities were starting to address the hazard or sabotage by a highly-motivated state actor?
<> <> <> <> <>
Bottom line: we need to know more about how the fire started and what was in the warehouse. Yet everyone seems very pleased and accepting of the accidental narrative.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 1:32 utc | 172
Lurk @Aug7 23:36 #167
… an attempted reboot of colonialism.
IMO it’s much more than that.
Attempt to expel Hezbollah, open a western front in the war for Syria, and steal Lebanese off-shore gas rights.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 1:35 utc | 173
@ 156 jackrabbit… quote – “The possibility for something between these extremes, like sabotage, is discounted/unwanted.” it is possible, but has been largely discounted.. yes… sometimes you can pick up good things at discounted prices, lol… i think more info will come out on all this, but it is going to take some time..
163 jackrabbit… i think your comments r@9 on this thread are credible… i don’t believe the line george floyd killed himself… that seems like an escape clause for police involvement in his death.. i see the police are a necessary accessory to his death… i try to see things from many angles which is why i shared that article… my thought is the police didn’t help but i haven’t studied it extensively… it seems like a gang mentality going on from both ends..
Posted by: james | Aug 8 2020 1:41 utc | 174
High definition pic of the crater. Gravel and dirt thrown up on side nearest the camera, possibly some rock showing on far side.
The harbor wont be carved out of rock. Those spits out into the water will be reclaimed ground, perhaps a rock base under the fill. Rock quite likely being the original shoreline
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/08/middleeast/beirut-visual-guide/media/images/card.jpg
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 1:52 utc | 175
Trump once again demonstrating that he really does think he’s a dictator with absolute power… This guy will not leave the White House if he’s defeated in November. There’s no telling what he might do.
Trump Issues Ridiculous Executive Orders Banning TikTok And WeChat
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 8 2020 1:58 utc | 176
@172 Jackrabbit
IMO it’s much more than that.
Attempt to expel Hezbollah, open a western front in the war for Syria, and steal Lebanese off-shore gas rights.
And it’ll precisely be Christian and Sunni Arabs that open the door and let all that happen. Already, Trump is sending aid with strings attached and those traitors are welcoming the Trojan Horse with open arms.
Posted by: Circe | Aug 8 2020 2:00 utc | 177
Hackers are defacing Reddit with pro-Trump messages
Of course, this is common. However, in this case, it’s a fairly large attack on major Reddit channels – and it’s in support of Trump’s re-election. So my guess is it’s a deliberate, however covert, action on the part of the Trump re-election campaign. Not that it couldn’t be done by independents, don’t get me wrong. But given Trump’s massive ego, it’s quite possible that someone in his re-election campaign decided to play dirty pool covertly. Of course, that will backfire, like most of Trump’s actions.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 8 2020 2:01 utc | 178
_K_C_ @Aug8 0:00 #168
… there is no comment at 15:59, nor is any comment with the handle “jackrabbit” visible anywhere.
I was referring to james’ comment there.
=
Are you sure you’re not shadow banned over there?
I think I’m completely banned. pl mocked me in a post dedicated to comment policing (though he didn’t directly mention me in the post).
Note: He did publish comments I made (to the “A Rule About Comments” post) complaining of the unfairness of his view.
I had suggested in a comment (which pl never published) that Hillary, Bush Sr., McCain, Mueller, Brennan and others in the power-elite conspired to meet the challenge from Russia and China and that Trump’s election was part of that response.
Needless to say, for those who have vested interest in Trump as populist hero, that is an unpopular view. But if USA is successful and comes out on top, you can bet that USA/Western historians propagandists will be singing the praises of these visionary patriots/sarc while ignoring such inconvenient truths as the dead-injured-displaced, the elevated risk of nuclear holocaust, and the (likely) dystopia that results.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 2:09 utc | 179
Peter AU1 @Aug8 1:52 #174
– Looks like the grain formed a dust cloud that settled over a wide area.
– The roof of the warehouse is blown off so we can see how much is stored there compared to the what the building can hold. There appears to be plenty of room to segregate flammable/explosive materials from each other.
– Interestingly, there are containers in front of the access doors of the warehouse. Was this their primary security system? Would “welders” really be able to fix that?
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 2:20 utc | 180
TheGuardian has a story that contradicts Magnier
It also has a great picture of the quay/warehouse and immediate area.
Former port worker says fireworks stored in hangar
They interviewed a dock worker who says that it was just workmen doing the work (not a blacksmith/welder) and that they all died (Magnier says they are in custody). And Magnier didn’t mention the fireworks in his story.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 2:27 utc | 181
PS I’m not necessarily believing the Guardian story either.
“A few bags of fireworks” isn’t what we saw. There was a continuous barrage over what seemed like a wide area.
But it fits with what TPTB want us to believe: it was all just an accident. Very unfortunate for the people that live there but very fortuitous to those that want to advance certain interests.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 2:32 utc | 182
Jackrabbit
Magnier has a number of warehouse photos on his twitter account. It looks to me like the bags have been stacked in from the ends of the warehouse rather than through the side doors.
From what I can make of, the ammonium nitrate took up 2/3 tho 3/4 of the ware house, with something else stacked in the end where the fire was burning and the first explosion took place. The photo of the workers at the side door – Magnier has a photo from the report showing the door wouldn’t fully close – the workers look to be chipping concrete, perhaps at the base of a post, couple of hammers and concrete or rock chisel there.
But I dont think the fire started there as their is not enough flammable material for the fire that was burning, plus that first explosion blew what looked to be sheets of paper or cardboard into the air, though that could have been sky lights getting blown out. My thought is they may have got the welder/maintenance man to do a bit of other work as well.
But what is missing is a record of what was stored in that end of the warehouse. The 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate looks to be legit with records and so forth. Early on they said fireworks and it does look like fireworks to me, but still no record of exactly what was in there.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 2:38 utc | 183
Peter AU1 @Aug8 2:38 #182
… looked to be sheets of paper or cardboard into the air, though that could have been sky lights getting blown out.
I think it was the roof. Maybe some sky lights but those are heavier and wouldn’t catch the light like segments of roof.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 2:46 utc | 184
The other thing if was fireworks, were they already manufactured or was it bulk ingredients?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 2:46 utc | 185
@ Peter AU! and Jackrabbit about the Beirut whatever
Thanks for the follow up analysis.
What keeps coming back to me as an unanswered question is why was the crew sent to do whatever and why then and not months or years before? It is reading like they didn’t know they were being sent to their graves.
Too many coincidences and unanswered questions for my comfort.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 8 2020 2:56 utc | 186
@karlof1 | Aug 6 2020 17:44 utc | 28
Is it possible to fake such images [videos]?
Oh yes. The movie “Forrest Gump” showed LBJ interacting with an adult Gump, played by Tom Hanks. Remember Gump showing his naked butt to LBJ and LBJ laughing it off? The video of LBJ would have been taken in the mid 1960s, when Hanks would have been 10-15 years old (Hanks was born in 1956). Yet we saw a clearly grown up Gump. So at least that scene could not possibly have been real.
Forrest Gump was released in 1994. The fakery of motion pictures is much easier now; the necessary computer power is available everywhere these days, even in your phone.
Posted by: Cyril | Aug 8 2020 3:34 utc | 187
psychohistoria #124
Perfectly good rant, thank you.
Magnier has his head in his arse – still.
Circe…. sad.
Robert Baer = disinformation agent and not very bright at that.
So much bulldust in the air, you would think a bomb had gone off.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 8 2020 4:29 utc | 188
Mostly irrelevant what had been stored next to the AN. What matters is there was a combustion reaction (started intentionally or not) going on close to the AN. That gives combustion products such as carbonates of alkali metals, metal oxides such as Fe(x)O(y), maybe even oxides of copper and chromium, if small amounts of these metals were present, too. These function as catalysts that together with AN and a small amount of combustible matter yield a self-sustaining combustion reaction of the AN that is growing ever more violent.
Now, while AN is being almost invulnerable to impact and friction (drop test: 5kp/1m – no reaction; friction test: 36kp – no reaction) it is quite vulnerable to heat under confinement. Once a sufficient amount of AN is melted and mixed with solid, yet ‘un-melted’, AN (worst case scenario) it undergoes what is called self-confinement which, if AN’s critical diameter is surpassed, must result in a DDT event, it detonates.
Anything else is nothing but pure speculation.
Posted by: Hmpf | Aug 8 2020 5:49 utc | 189
Timelines are everything in getting to clarity here.
There were reports of US spy planes flapping around the ocean to the north west – when was that in relation to big bang?
The welders are reported to have gone to site to weld up hole in door. When did they do that task and when did they leave in relation to the fire and smoke being seen, how long between that work and the big bang? Did they get far away to their next task to survive?
Given the seven years of stash how much pilfering had there been of this reasonably valuable cargo? How many holes in the wall were repaired? Sounds like a lucrative black market to me. Was ISIS being supplied for their dirty tricks?
I believe Trump saying he has been advised it was an attack is DELIBERATE as captain mendacious wants to justify a war – like, to save his doomed presidency and his administration is that way inclined as well from what I can hear of their statements. And I guess there will be lots of captive ex CIA ‘experts’ frothing at the mouth like Robert Bear to support el presidente in his resurrection.
I do not believe the Port Authority was unaware of how extreme the danger was. I bet the fire brigade people knew what was up but maybe were unaware of the threat from nearby explosions as in the fireworks stash. But all of that is my false expectation perhaps.
I don’t dismiss the idea it was a sabotage designed to cripple the current government that apparently had the possibility of delivering social betterment after decades of useless victim to Israel and FUKUSAI meddling.
I have not yet seen a missile video I could trust. For that matter I see Macron as being too quick by half to reclaim his mortgage over Lebanese lives. Slimy little turd, Lebanese should don the yellow vest and wave it high. Trust Macron? maybe at the pointy end of a shotgun but not in any other circumstance.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 8 2020 5:53 utc | 190
Jackrabbit #149
Magnier claims the blacksmith is in custody. Despite his great sources, he can’t tell us who they are or what the company is?
Methinks Magnier drinks too much absinthe, and has been for some time.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 8 2020 6:38 utc | 191
Hmpf 188
Fireworks use a lot of metals for effects. A quick look up, and the ones you mentioned are used, though I guess they have to be in the right chemical mix as in oxides?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 6:50 utc | 192
Peter AU1 #184
The other thing if was fireworks, were they already manufactured or was it bulk ingredients?
I got the impression from a video of the warehouse on fire that it was ready to go packaged fireworks and I simply assumed there were more volatile raw materials there. IF THAT video was to be trusted of course!! It was pretty convenient for THAT video to have been instantly uploaded prior to the big bang and to have had such a lead story feature. You don’t kick off nitropril with a cracker – it needs a very fast moving burn like a detonator in some dynamite afaik. Gunpowder is way too slow to trigger. I have seen SFX movie teams do it in plastic bottles with dets and cordex but maybe they had additional accelerents.
That video is a bit of freak imo.
The fireworks in shed 9 and AN in shed 12. Partitioned space? Common wall, far apart, ???? Maybe there is a site map at a port authority website still.
The big bang would have transferred every person nearby into the hands of their gods and every mobile device back to microcircuit dust. So how did it get uploaded or is that a simultaneous thing – I haven’t done it so I have no idea.
Gunpowder – Chinese invention – so I guess Trump will accuse them next.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 8 2020 7:01 utc | 193
uncle tungsten
It was genuine. Matched all other videos only from closer, I think it was shed nine, and door twelve was put in there for some reason. I think that was the one the firefighters were trying to break into. MSM put out that shit about two sheds. All video show just the one shed on fire. Criminal negligence on the part of who was in charge of putting fireworks and other flammables in there. Was slow burning an hour or so apparently before the fire fighters arrived. Took awhile to reach the fireworks.
No one person present at the port knew what was in there, or the danger. They all just stood around videoing it as it was burning.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 7:11 utc | 194
@ PeterAu1
Sure thing, but same is with wood, paint, pipes made of copper or chromium plated materials, filler materials etc., e.g. Copper chromite – sintered Cuo/Cr2O3 has been used as burn modifier (accelerator – catalyst) in AN based solid rocket propellants.
Posted by: Hmpf | Aug 8 2020 7:23 utc | 195
Somebody done a bit of shit stirring a few days back. Took photos of the state of the shed and contents, wrote a report and tried to get something done.
To me, what has happened is some bureaucrat has got onto the local fix it man and asked him to go down their and do a bit patching up. For the fixit man it would be just a shed full of crap. Perhaps a grinding spark here, a welding spark there and a bumper or two tossed on the ground.
Magnier has seen the report and posted photos from it.
One photo of the fixit man and his offsiders…. He would’ve had his work truck there and whatever he needed to do the job. MSM says welder and most think he should be running around with a welding helmet on and constantly making sparks. Rock up to the job, grab the welder and start welding … like the bureaucrat has been down there preparing the job for him.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 7:30 utc | 196
Macron. Walking through the wreckage of Beirut with Hezbollah. With Trump’s terrorists. Maybe Macron will surprise us?
https://mobile.twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1291587171497934848
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 8 2020 7:59 utc | 197
Peter AU “The other thing if was fireworks, were they already manufactured or was it bulk ingredients?”
Thanks for this precision. Indeed, the explosions looked so different from the Enschede video that I was surprised, but there are many variants of fireworks.
Still, Magnier speaks of “old ammunitions”.
Posted by: Mina | Aug 8 2020 8:00 utc | 198
More about the ‘fireworks’
https://twitter.com/EHSANI22/status/1291797833348194304
And about naval mafias
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/igor-grechushkin-beirut-port-russia-floating-bomb-ammonium-nitrate-a9657816.html
Posted by: Mina | Aug 8 2020 8:06 utc | 199
https://twitter.com/EHSANI22/status/1291786476179656704
“The fireworks were confiscated by customs in about 2009-10. “There were 30 to 40 nylon bags of fireworks inside warehouse 12. They were on the left-hand side when you entered the door. I used to complain about this. It wasn’t safe. There was also humidity there””
Posted by: Mina | Aug 8 2020 8:09 utc | 200