Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 08, 2020

No Evidence Of Foreign Interference In U.S. Elections, U.S. Intelligence Says

Yesterday the mislabeled U.S. 'Intelligence' Agencies trotted out more nonsense claims about foreign interferences in U.S. elections.

The New York Times sensationally headlines:

Russia Continues Interfering in Election to Try to Help Trump, U.S. Intelligence Says
But a new assessment says China would prefer to see the president defeated, though it is not clear Beijing is doing much to meddle in the 2020 campaign to help Joseph R. Biden Jr.

But when one reads the piece itself one finds no fact that would support the 'Russia Continues Interfering' statement:

Russia is using a range of techniques to denigrate Joseph R. Biden Jr., American intelligence officials said Friday in their first public assessment that Moscow continues to try to interfere in the 2020 campaign to help President Trump.

At the same time, the officials said China preferred that Mr. Trump be defeated in November and was weighing whether to take more aggressive action in the election.

But officials briefed on the intelligence said that Russia was the far graver, and more immediate, threat. While China seeks to gain influence in American politics, its leaders have not yet decided to wade directly into the presidential contest, however much they may dislike Mr. Trump, the officials said.

The assessment, included in a statement released by William R. Evanina, the director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center, suggested the intelligence community was treading carefully, reflecting the political heat generated by previous findings.

The authors emphasize the scaremongering hearsay from "officials briefed on the intelligence" - i.e. Democratic congress members - about Russia but have nothing to back it up.

When one reads the statement by Evanina one finds nothing in it about Russian attempts to interfere in the U.S. elections. Here is the only 'evidence' that is noted:

For example, pro-Russia Ukrainian parliamentarian Andriy Derkach is spreading claims about corruption – including through publicizing leaked phone calls – to undermine former Vice President Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party. Some Kremlin-linked actors are also seeking to boost President Trump’s candidacy on social media and Russian television.

After a request from Rudy Giuliani, President Trump’s personal attorney, an opportunistic Ukrainian parliamentarian published Ukrainian evidence of Biden's very real interference in the Ukraine. Also: Some guest of a Russian TV show had an opinion. How is either of those two items 'evidence' of Russian interference in U.S. elections?

The statement then claims:

Ahead of the 2020 U.S. elections, foreign states will continue to use covert and overt influence measures in their attempts to sway U.S. voters’ preferences and perspectives, shift U.S. policies, increase discord in the United States, and undermine the American people’s confidence in our democratic process.

But how do the 'intelligence' agencies know that foreign states want to "sway preferences", "increase discord" or "undermine confidence" in elections?

As a recent piece in Foreign Affairs noted:

The mainstream view in the U.S. media and government holds that the Kremlin is waging a long-haul campaign to undermine and destabilize American democracy. Putin wants to see the United States burn, and contentious elections offer a ready-made opportunity to fan the flames.

But ascribing motive and intent is a tricky business, because perceived impact is often mistaken for true intent. [...] Where is the evidence that Russia actually wants to bring down the liberal world order and watch the United States burn?

Well there is none. And that is why the 'intelligence' agencies do not present any evidence.

Even the NYT writers have to admit that there is nothing there:

The release on Friday was short on specifics, ...


Intelligence agencies focus their work on the intentions of foreign governments, and steer clear of assessing if those efforts have had an effect on American voters.

How do 'intelligence' agencies know Russian, Chinese or Iranian 'intentions'. Is there a secret policy paper by the Russian government that says it should "increase discord" in the United States? Is there some Chinese think tank report which says that undermining U.S. people's confidence in their democratic process would be good for China?

If the 'intelligence' people have copies of those papers why not publish them?

Let me guess. The 'intelligence' agencies have nothing, zero, nada. They are just making wild-ass guesses about 'intentions' of perceived enemies to impress the people who sign off their budget.

Nowadays that seems to be their main purpose.

Posted by b on August 8, 2020 at 18:08 UTC | Permalink


Bibi Netanyahu has a lot of Zionist Russian oligarch friends and together they'll do whatever they can get away with to ensure Trump wins.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 8 2020 18:22 utc | 2

Lie, Cheat, Steal the Election ....

Oh, wait ... that was Pompeo.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 18:29 utc | 3

thanks b... the way it looks to me, the cia, anonymous sources, the media - nyt, wapo, wsj and etc are the ones undermining ''the American people’s confidence in our democratic process''.... if any of these culprits were put on the witness stand, the gig would be up! but they won't be.. the endless bullshite and blather will continue until the usa is buried by the actions of other players on the world stage... they've been digging their own grave for some time now and it looks to be picking up speed!

Posted by: james | Aug 8 2020 18:31 utc | 4

Baseless paranoia is common for individuals as cognitive abilities deteriorate. You can see this in some terminally ill individuals. The same behavior is seen in organizations, and whole cultures, as they become moribund and die. Another poster mentioned some days ago that the religious believe that their god gifts the dying with madness as a defense against the horror of their approaching demise, and that concept was encapsulated in a nice quote that I can neither remember the source nor the precise wording of; nevertheless, that quote illustrates that increasing insanity has long been associated with imminent death.

The empire is dying, and in the process it is going completely insane. The insanity is culture-wide. Along with that insanity comes deep paranoia that is entirely real and palpable to its victims. The empire is barking at shadows.

Barking mad? Absolutely. The world must tread with care.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 18:45 utc | 5

@ Xpilgrim @ 1

If you actually bothered to read that article (I assume you can). The fake IDs were mainly for kids trying to get into bars.

Yup, keep spinning it. Try harder, I'll wait.

Posted by: A.L. | Aug 8 2020 19:16 utc | 6

So the election is illegitimate no matter who is elected. The Democrats spent four years snipe-hunting Russians, and will continue if they lose again, meanwhile here comes the great Chinese witch hunt by the GOP for four years of Biden's 'stolen' election. They Shoot Horses Don't They?

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 8 2020 19:16 utc | 7

Repost my comment from the Open Thread:

USA waves white flag, admits it is not the sole superpower anymore:

Russia, China and Iran seeking to influence US ahead of elections, top intelligence official says

No, no: the intelligence source is bullshit. It is normal for the relevant nations to extraofficially declare their preference of candidates of other relevant nations (the USA, obviously, being the most relevant of them all). One month before November 2016, for example, I read in The Japan Times a "leaked report" that revealed the Abe administration preferred Hilary Clinton to win. It was there, in the front page, for everyone to see.

The relevant news here is that this "intelligence official" fake leaked this "report" on the hopes the American people itself will believe it. And most will believe it (the Democrats, that Trump is Russia's sockpuppet; the Republicans, that Biden is China's). That an USG mandarin forged such a report on the hopes most Americans would believe him is revealing.

The fact that such absurd fake news is believable to the American is the true news. The American people itself doesn't believe in the supreme potency of America anymore.

Posted by: vk | Aug 8 2020 19:21 utc | 8

Everyone on earth knows it does not matter who the elite select, the outcomes are the same. More war, sanctions for everyone and a miserable existance for everyone else.

Posted by: linda Doucett | Aug 8 2020 19:22 utc | 9

Those that gods want to destroy, first they drive them mad.

Posted by: albagen | Aug 8 2020 19:24 utc | 10

I think that China and Russia may be undermining the democratic processes in the West if they really existed. What they are undermining is the foundation of global private finance that has dictatorial control over the West that thinks they live in some level of democracy.

We are into serious projection by the global elite to keep the global private finance merry-go-round spinning while not drawing attention to their moving of levers behind the curtain. China and Russia are making that increasingly difficult so desperate measure are being taken if you haven't been asleep most of this year.

I read on ZH that Trump says he is going into hiding because people are out to get him. The soap opera continues with Liberace grifter Trump leading the cast of obfuscators of Western reality.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 8 2020 19:33 utc | 11

It seems I completely inverted a portion of the sense of that quote that I couldn't remember! Thank you albagen for setting that straight. The key premise remains accurate, though. This level of insanity strongly suggests that the American empire is on its last legs.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 19:33 utc | 12

William Gruff @5--

Then does China need a "new understanding" of its "New Understanding"? I would say it does based on what that article conveys. My question: Who is going to provide that New Understanding?

As for the NY Times editors misleading the public, isn't that their job? I mean, how else does one get promoted to such a position within that organization based on all the evidence we've digested over the decades? Surely it has descended to tabloid status, yes?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 8 2020 19:34 utc | 13

"increase discord in the United States"

Well, who needs foreigners when the Yanks already doing their finest job at it to themselves?

"undermine the American people’s confidence in our democratic process"

I'm sorry, what democracy left to undermine when every allowed candidate is a corporate sockpuppet, while the unelected and unaccountable deep state calls all the imperialist and fascist shots? And are we are supposed to believe Russia or China are able to have a handle over these American crooks so hellbent for any power, even if they former wants to?

Posted by: J W | Aug 8 2020 19:43 utc | 14

The Main-Stream Media, staffed by Repeaters, not Reporters, come in 6 Corporate Flavors that all smell the same.

Posted by: Enrico Malatesta | Aug 8 2020 19:53 utc | 15

@A.L. (6)
The one on the photo looks really like a kid who wants to get into bars.

Posted by: Xpilgrim | Aug 8 2020 19:54 utc | 16

A smear a day keeps the virus away - or maybe not.

Posted by: pnyx | Aug 8 2020 19:55 utc | 17

This degree of americans' paranoia is almost painful to watch.In the end their elections are a match between Russia and China.Unbelievable.It must be something in the cola-brew.

Posted by: willie | Aug 8 2020 20:03 utc | 18

I would have thought, given the investigations currently underway into what the previous administration and its intelligence operations were up to pre and post the 2016 election that there are quite a few prominent Americans with a much bigger incentive to influence this year's election than any foreign government.

If the Democrats get into power with a new AG and all kinds of potential jail or career problems become far less important to the DoJ. Some would say that making those problems go away was worth a considerable investment in blackening Trumps name and generally stirring things up to reduce his chances of winning.

Looking at the situation in the US from the other side of the Atlantic, I would say that a very professional, wide ranging and thorough job was being done. Whatever you think of the Democrats, or indeed the UniParty, like many similar organisations they are a single minded, well planned and ruthless group. Along with careers there are billions of $ at stake.

Posted by: JohninMK | Aug 8 2020 20:13 utc | 19

So the election is illegitimate no matter who is elected. The Democrats spent four years snipe-hunting Russians, and will continue if they lose again, meanwhile here comes the great Chinese witch hunt by the GOP for four years of Biden's 'stolen' election. They Shoot Horses Don't They? by: gottlieb @ 7

No the election is not illegitimate, its the vote of the voters vote that is illegitimate. You folks still don't get it.. In presidential elections there is no popular vote [that counts].
President and VP are the only two Article II persons. The electoral college, not a popular vote of the people <=elect those two clowns to the office of President and VP.. Read article II, section 1 then read amendment 12.. of the constitution of the USA<=ratified on June 15, 1804.
The real crap goes on in the electoral college, outside of the view of the citizens. Citizens have been duped, to think they are voting on who shall be the President of the government that abuses them. But these elections for President and VP go on in activities behind the doors of the various political apparatus conducted by the state. The most influential person most of the time is the Secretary of State.. and many corporations that occupy the state.

Posted by: snake | Aug 8 2020 20:26 utc | 20

How is either of those two items 'evidence' of Russian interference in U.S. elections?

You don't understand. The US government structures are so childishly undeveloped, or incompetent (or call it whatever you like), that they interpret any mention of their country made in Russia as "interference".

Russian news channel showed US street riots? This is a gross interference. Guests of any Russian TV show discuss issues related to the United States (economy, social sphere, etc.)? This is a gross interference. A Russian journalist published an article on the situation in the United States? This is a gross interference. Some Russian blogger release a video expressing his personal opinion about the situation in the United States? This is a gross interference. Two citizens of Russia, discussing what is happening in the United States at dinner in the kitchen? This is a gross interference.

Non-interference will only happen if you remain silent, say absolutely nothing and do not comment on the situation in the United States at all (be it the economy, finance, legislation, etc.). Only complete silence about the situation in the United States would be non-interference.

Posted by: alaff | Aug 8 2020 20:29 utc | 21

– Hermann Goering:

“Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship…

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

USA: Our democracy is under attack by Russia and China!

If you're not fearful/concerned, you're a Putinbot, "useful idiot", or reader of fakenews.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 20:42 utc | 22

karlof1 @13

I don't think the Chinese are wrong in that article. The idea that "...US politics have exposed a systemic disconnect with the country's grassroots. The process of readjusting through the general election is full of controversy, crises and will produce profound influences" seems accurate to me. But isn't that just a somewhat clinical way of describing a being turning into a corpse? "Hmm, the brain appears to now be disconnected from the body. It no longer seems to detect trauma occurring in the extremities."

It isn't as if China can do anything for America at this point, but failing to study the pathology of a dying empire would be gross intellectual negligence on their part. Moreover, they do seem to be respectful in their observations. It is not as if they are gloating and rubbing their hands in glee at America's decline.

Basically, I would say China's "new understanding" is more about discarding their previous misconceptions about America. At one time many people in the world looked up to America like it was some sort of nation sized comic book superhero. As the land of milk and honey where the streets are paved with gold, for billions in the world America was a fairy tale come true, and this was true of the Chinese people as well. In every category it seemed the USA was #1. Everyone looked to the USA to lead humanity into the future.

It is no longer possible to maintain that fantasy about America anymore. This requires a "new understanding"; a fresh look at the US untainted by the automatic presumption of America's permanence and invulnerability. I think the Chinese imagined rising to become equals to the US, but I think it may have never occurred to them that America could stumble so badly that China would be left as the sole global superpower. That is obviously not a responsibility that they sought out, so they need to start thinking about it.

Americans will automatically assume this means military dominance because that is what they have become used to over the last few generations, but it really is more about setting standards and goals that the rest of the world will strive for. That was never a concern before because the Chinese aim was to become equals to America. They have largely achieved that, but America is on its way down, so now what?

The Chinese have some soul searching to do now, and developing a new understanding of America is part of that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 20:48 utc | 23

It's not that democracy is so fragile that outside influence with affect the outcome. It's the plutocracy or, to be specific, the fear of losing the plutocracy that is so fragile. Any attempt to change the order no matter how slight the adjustment is always met with overwhelming force.

What you are witnessing is the panic of a power structure using ludicrously attempts to hold on to every ounce of power at any and all costs. The selection come November perfectly illustrates this since it has been reduced to nothing more than the sexual predator of your choice. How much more evidence do you need?

Unfortunately there has to be a great die off of elderly voters in the US who still believe in this nonsense we call democracy before there's even a modicum of change.

Posted by: One Too Many | Aug 8 2020 21:00 utc | 24

The thing that undermined confidence in America's faltering democracy was Obama colluding with Biden and interfering in the Democratic primaries. If Russia or China wanted to wreck America, their surefire plan is to just stand by and watch it implode under the weight of its own hubris and corruption.

Posted by: DougDiggler | Aug 8 2020 21:01 utc | 25

Clarification @Aug 8 20:42 #22

Forgot to add the /sarc tag on the last sentence. I hope everyone understood that I meant to ridicule the effort to squash dissent by labeling people as Putinbots, "useful idiots", and readers of fake news.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 8 2020 21:03 utc | 26

One Too Many @24

With the covid being the "Boomer Remover", eh?

Unfortunately, people in America have become increasingly delusional and disassociated from reality with each succeeding generation. This means that the boomers are by and large our society's best remaining link to the real world.

Or do the millennials view that link to reality as an anchor holding them back that must be cut loose? After all, if a little bit of delusion isn't working, then the solution must be even more delusion, right?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 21:12 utc | 27

William Gruff @23--

Thanks for your reply! I posed the question because IMO the disconnect between what the mases want versus what's delivered by the Duopoly began with Reagan and has become increasingly obvious. The theatrical "fight" between the two parties is false as we both know since both serve the same Masters and pursue the same #1 policy goal. That's why I implied China's not understanding with its "new understanding," although a large number of your points have been expressed recently in Global Times editorials and op/eds. Unfortunately, the article's very short and doesn't provide much description of the book's contents, so it may be more complete than I'm assuming. Now it's time to go to the Lebanon thread to discuss the essay Pepe Escobar published today.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 8 2020 21:21 utc | 28

The USA has always interfered heavily in many country's election
Now it knows what it is like to be in the receiving end...

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 8 2020 21:22 utc | 29

What MoA is focusing on here – that the body of the NY Times article lacks any specific allegations to back up the scare headline – closely parallels the “Russian bounties” story from a few weeks ago.

In that case as well, someone who actually read the initial, supposedly blockbuster piece, found nothing to support the headline or provide details beyond the lead sentence or two of the piece. And I’m speaking in objective terms: leaving aside whether a reader might or might not find any specific alleged findings credible, they simply weren’t there.

The follow-up “Russian bounties” articles added a very few specific allegations. These were unconvincing, but more to the point, nobody paid attention to them or seemed to feel they were needed, and they ceased within a few days. This was because the initial article had served its purpose simply by putting this one sentence out there: “Russia is paying bounties to the Taliban to kill U.S. soldiers.”

That one bare assertion is now established as a meme (in more like the original sense of the word than the funny pictures everyone sends around) that impersonates as an established fact, and now regularly appears in establishment narratives, such as remarks by members of Congress, and other corporate media pieces, e.g. this week’s interview of Trump by Jonathan Swan, which itself got a lot of coverage: (“Trump didn’t bring up the bounties in his phone conversation with Putin!”).

The Times article MoA tries to examine today, only to find it doesn’t actually exist in substance beyond the headline, serves the same purpose, but for this sentence: “Russian meddling in U.S. elections continues in 2020.” This is necessary for the narrative managers so that they aren’t limited to referring to “meddling” as a mere historic event from 2016, and can treat it as a live – and established as true – threat now. (Of course, the meddling in 2016 was itself a phony story, and this shows how these manufactured memes can be stacked one on top of the other to create the false edifice that the Beltway consensus successfully purveys as the real world to most people in the U.S.)

There is little incentive for the Times and their intelligence-community “sources” to spin more elaborate lies when the media-political-intellectual culture has degraded to the point that no one thinks beyond the level of the naked meme. They thus avoid two problems associated with staging more elaborate hoaxes: (1) it’s more work; (2) specific falsehoods can be disproven with facts. The sole major lesson the Beltway establishment took from the 2003 Iraq-WMD fiasco is to try to avoid lies specific enough that they can be disproven.

Posted by: David G | Aug 8 2020 21:23 utc | 30

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 21:12 utc | 27

Boomers are going to line up and buy the new cold war the US is selling. Why? Because they already lived through version 1.0. The majority will react in the same manner since their world view is set. Millennials have zero reference of the cold war. Communism to them are some memes about comrades. That's the reality, there's no delusion.

Posted by: One Too Many | Aug 8 2020 21:26 utc | 31

@ 29 virgile... i don't believe that is true though... i think it is a classic case of projection on the part of those who regularly commit to interference more then anything..

Posted by: james | Aug 8 2020 21:43 utc | 32

When you began with

"Yesterday the mislabeled U.S. 'Intelligence' Agencies "

I couldn't help but think of that picture of Paul Wolfowitz
who played a brilliant part in leading this country into an invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Posted by: librul | Aug 8 2020 21:50 utc | 33

William Gruff @ 27

Are you kidding Boomers are delusional

Posted by: dp | Aug 8 2020 22:35 utc | 34

Trump just did his own meddling in the election by promising to "terminate" Medicare and Social Security if he's reelected. I'll bet if his base was listening to what he declared that he just lost a sizable proportion of it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 8 2020 22:42 utc | 35

yeah I hope more people make that connection.

He's selling it as a tax holiday for the payroll tax (which funds these programs). It might get him points tho - the payroll tax is felt by more and more individuals, due to the so called gig economy ... self employment means the individual pays double in this category.

Here is Reuters' summary.

Todays presser seems to announce his reelection campaign strategy. [For some reason I watched it, first time I sat thru one of these since his first appearance as prez.] Summary: Blame Democrats, China, and immigrants. Hand out money, cut taxes more, claim that Biden/Schumer/Pelosi are obstructing.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 8 2020 23:25 utc | 36

All this blather about Russia, China, and Iran interfering in US elections can be summed up by something my father used to say to me in my teenage years:

"Save the BS for Mother!"

Posted by: Dick | Aug 8 2020 23:35 utc | 37

One Too Many @24
"there has to be a great die off of elderly voters in the US who still believe in this nonsense we call democracy before there's even a modicum of change"

This is careless indeed. I don't know many young voters who understand that the US does not have a democracy. It takes many years of experience and disillusionment to figure that out. As William Gruff noted @27.

Your next statement is equally false: "Boomers are going to line up and buy the new cold war the US is selling. Why? Because they already lived through version 1.0"

Wrong generation, dude. Boomers lived through the Vietnam War and well know those last remnants of pseudo-democracy are gone forever. Perhaps you meant the parents of Boomers.

But it is not generational: there are people of all persuasions at all adult ages. You should be careful when tempted to make such sweeping generalizations: they are never accurate, just convenient injustices.

Posted by: Erik G | Aug 8 2020 23:40 utc | 38

I think trump just won the next election by signing a order to extenend UB. Congress couldnt work out a deal, democrats wanted extra money for cities and state govs. Trump bipasted both of them. Which politian in there right mind will try to take back the money?

Posted by: Bob | Aug 8 2020 23:47 utc | 39

One Too Many @31

So sad that you cannot see your own delusion.

"Boomers are going to line up and buy the new cold war the US is selling."

But who is that new cold war against? Russians are not communists today, but it is a fact that your generation believes they are evil anti-homosexual Nazi monsters, so who is falling for the cold war jingoism there?

Then there are the Chinese. OK, they really are communists, but who is it that has bought into the nonsense about them oppressing poor, innocent, religious head choppers? Who cares even if those lies were true? Yep, that's millennial morons.

You see, while the overall effect of "Cold War Mk.II" is the same, which is to goad the population towards conflict, the underlying dynamics have been updated to work with contemporary (millennial) prejudices. Having lived through this nonsense several times before, the boomers be like "Oh crap, not this again."

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 23:50 utc | 40

William Gruff #27
"This means that the boomers are by and large our society's best remaining link to the real world."

Not so sure about that. Almost all the boomers I know are Liberals or Democrats, well-to-do middle class home-owners, 100% pro-establishment, their sole source of news they read or watch is CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, WAPO, and big fans of Rachel Maddow, Chris Hayes, Don Lemon, and Chris Cuomo!

Posted by: krypton | Aug 9 2020 0:13 utc | 41

Irony abounds. The 1967 CIA memorandum which first sought to denigrate “conspiracy theorists” also held that criticism of the Warren Commission was in part the work of foreign adversaries: “Point out also that parts of the conspiracy talk appear to be deliberately generated by Communist propagandists.” Official sneering at “conspiracy talk” held steady for over four decades. Remember Obama’s first term, and the Democrats/official Washington’s promotion of Cass Sunstein’s academic work on unvetted information and “fake news”? Sunstein, in his co-authored paper “Conspiracy Theories”, advocated that "Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action." This proactive remedy is now exactly what America’s adversaries are accused of doing (projection), in reaction to conspiracy theories spun by the Democrats themselves (Russiagate / Russian hacking). The remedy once promoted as entirely reasonable is now portrayed as sinister and aggressive, and worthy of sharp response despite very little, if any, factual basis by which to pin this on the current adversaries.

Posted by: jayc | Aug 9 2020 0:14 utc | 42

albagen | Aug 8 2020 19:24 utc | 10:

Close but it's "Whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad."

William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 20:48 utc | 23:

I find it difficult to believe the World would allow another sole global superpower to rise. The US abused that opportunity; just like we'll never see a single currency to have the WRC status.

Virgile | Aug 8 2020 21:22 utc | 29:


Posted by: Ian2 | Aug 9 2020 0:15 utc | 43

Posted by: Erik G | Aug 8 2020 23:40 utc | 38

Cold war lasted from 1947 to 1991. For 44 years Boomers were subjected to the constant bombardment of the evils of communism on a daily basis, especially in their formative years. It wasn't their parents doing "duck and cover" drills in the classroom.

Just because there are outliers doesn't change the perception of the majority. The system is predicated on the delusion of democracy and unfortunately the majority of boomers tend to have this in spades. Poll after poll revels this unavoidable reality. I wouldn't bet money on the outcome being otherwise, would you?

Posted by: One Too Many | Aug 9 2020 0:22 utc | 44

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 8 2020 22:42 utc | 35

The extinction of Medicare and Social Security are a logical conclusion to the USA. It is the capitalist nation par excellence after all.

Posted by: vk | Aug 9 2020 0:24 utc | 45

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 23:50 utc | 40

"Then there are the Chinese. OK, they really are communists, but who is it that has bought into the nonsense about them oppressing poor, innocent, religious head choppers? Who cares even if those lies were true? Yep, that's millennial morons."

Actually it was the USG through funding of various think tanks and NGOs that started the whole fiasco with the MSM pushing the narrative. You know people with power in established organizations, who tend to be much older. I wouldn't blame the people at the bottom so much for the decisions made at the top.

Posted by: One Too Many | Aug 9 2020 0:42 utc | 46

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 8 2020 22:42 utc | 35

HaHaHa, Social Security including USPS is gonna gone for sure by next year. I'm 99% certainty he gonna to win, one way or another and privatize S/S and USPS. Given the choice’s American's hates the Chinese with Pompeo endless racist bashing -almost daily. He had proven Russia. Russia was fake earlier.

Something like 60-70% Americans believe Wuhan flue started by the commie in China in Wuhan to be exact, Trump accused China's commie wanna Biden to win. While the polls figures show Biden is ahead, RealClearPolitics shows Trump narrowing Biden's leads.. (take note Pompeo switching Chinese to commies in his China bashing. Trump needs the Chinese or minorities votes in marginal States)

Hey karlof1, did you post under "Alliance Retirees" in Common Dreams? I can't comments, dun have accounts in any social medias and Gmail.

Posted by: JC | Aug 9 2020 0:45 utc | 47

It is the rulers themselves and those who rule the rulers, who are fearful of losing control of the levers of power. I recall the British in Egypt boasting: 'we don't rule Egypt, we rule the rulers.'

It is not the accumulation of power for its own sake that is the intoxicating elixir of the ruling elite. It is furthering their objectives, both open and hidden.

To understand their primary objectives one should ask: just what is the single most bi partisan policy objective of US presidents, since Woodrow Wilson, with a few minor differences of opinion and emphasis from Eisenhower and Kennedy? Just what was the first priority item on the agenda at both the 1919 Paris 'Peace' Conference and the first United Nations meetings at Lake Success?

It was amending the title deeds of Palestine and attempting to confer some kind of quasi legitimacy on the new title deed holders.

The rulers are very afraid the future of the Zionist project is slipping away from their control. So in their rabid and delusional minds anything goes from now on in the furtherance of that self inflicted nightmare and the elimination of anyone or any country that inhibits that objective. Watch out.

Posted by: Paul | Aug 9 2020 0:58 utc | 48

One Too Many @46: "Actually it was the USG through funding of various think tanks and NGOs that started the whole fiasco with the MSM pushing the narrative."

And how is that any different from the first Cold War? You are just making excuses for your own brainwashing while asserting that the boomers should have known better. Maybe when you get as old as boomers are today you will be as free from delusion as you like to imagine that you are now.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 9 2020 1:46 utc | 49

Good points! The millennials (I am not one) have had zero power. The current reality is largely a creation of the Boomers/Silent Generation. Are the millennials falling for the propaganda? Yes, to some degree they are, especially as relates to being manipulated by identity politics.

Who is creating the propaganda, though? The Boomers more than anybody, although not exclusively. It is devious strategy, too. Manipulating the younger generations inclination towards social justice and using it to perpetuate fascism.

The Boomers here at MoA are outliers, not representative of the generation as a whole and I thank those here for the wisdom I have accessed, but by and large it is older generations with the money, power, and control of the media who are pushing the Cold War BS.

For their part, the millennials are surprisingly cynical of the power structure they were born into and not buying into the China Bad stuff. Unfortunately, as W. Gruff notes, they are buying into the Russia Bad stuff.

Posted by: Haassaan | Aug 9 2020 1:56 utc | 50

Posted by: JC | Aug 9 2020 0:45 utc | 47

I don't know where the idea that China wants Biden to win came from. The consensus I get from reading actual PRC media in native Chinese is certainly the opposite: They are 100% sure the Cold War 2.0 is going to escalate either way, so they will rather have Trump's outward incompetence than another Obama-like knife-behind-the-smile schemer.

Posted by: J W | Aug 9 2020 2:07 utc | 51

"Nowadays that seems to be their main purpose."

That's always been the purpose of intelligence agencies - in every nation throughout history.

Government agencies work for their own benefit, without exception. And the leaders of government always work the same way, regardless of the actual "national interests" or "public interest".

The problem is that everyone believes the fantasy that somehow they can "elect" leaders and government workers who don't do this. But all elections are manipulated by the political elites themselves to insure that no one gets into power who might the remotest notion of upsetting the profitable apply cart. And if any movement arose that sought to prevent the manipulation of elections - say, a "third party" or some movement to de-fund parties by elites - that movement itself would be deflected or undermined or taken over.

It's a circus and you all are the circus animals. Get used to it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 9 2020 2:28 utc | 52

J W @Aug9 2:07 #51

I don't know where the idea that China wants Biden to win came from.

It's just blatant propaganda whose tenuous basis in fact is that Biden's son's company got money from China for an investment scheme.

That was years ago. A lot has changed. But they will use that to associate Biden with China.

All part of the set-up to ensure that populist hero! Trump wins.

PS We are not supposed to notice these things. You didn't hear it from me.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 9 2020 2:28 utc | 53

Americans are continuing to renounce their citizenship at the highest levels on record, according to research by the Enrolled Agents and accountants Bambridge Accountants New York.

* 5,816 Americans gave up their citizenship in the first six months of 2020
* Showing a 1,210% increase on the prior six months to December 2019, where only 444 cases were recorded
* 2,072 Americans gave up their citizenship in 2019 in total
* This is the second highest quarter on record; the record is 2,909 cases for the first quarter of 2020
* It seems that the pandemic has motivated U.S. expats to cut ties and avoid the current political climate and onerous tax reporting

Americans must pay a $2,350 government fee to renounce their citizenship, and those based overseas must do so in person at the U.S. Embassy in their country.

There are an estimated 9 million U.S. expats. The trend has been that there has been a steep decline over the last few years of U.S. citizens expatriating - the first six months of 2020 is a huge increase in the number of Americans renouncing their citizenship.

Posted by: Mao | Aug 9 2020 2:44 utc | 54

I think trump just won the next election by signing a order to extenend UB. Congress couldnt work out a deal, democrats wanted extra money for cities and state govs. Trump bipasted both of them. Which politian in there right mind will try to take back the money? by: Bob @ 39

Bob, I know of no amendment that rescinds or transfers or duplicates into the office of the White House Super Star the powers reserved to congress under Section 1, Article 9. paragraph 7 of the Constitution of the United States of America ratified in 1788, which reads:

"No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time. "

There are hundreds of problems with the constitution, the biggest IMO being failure to provide the governed a way, independent of the governors own court system, to put in jail those in charge of operating the government, when such operators ignore the constitution and or transform their constitutional duties into election campaign promises that they cannot constitutionally perform on.

Posted by: snake | Aug 9 2020 4:34 utc | 55

Illegitimate elections need the cover of the threat of illegitimate elections from outside sources in order to cover up the illegitimacy from within.
The elite will install their new puppet no matter what since they've done this throughout history with only a few minor glitches along the way.
Our foreign policy of regime change via color revolution has become domestic policy since it is the only option that maintains the social status of those in power.
Capitalism has destroyed the United States due to it's exploitative nature as it will destroy any other empire that continues to use the economy to order society instead of the other way around.
The worse thing about capitalism has always been capitalists.
Time for a new system that combines the positives of all the other failed "ism's" and does it's best to tie actual virtue or morality with what we do every day.
The only problem with this scenario is that it would do away with the justification by the elite that 2500 people on the planet deserve all the power and resources in order to exploit the rest of us.
Hold on to your asses, things are going to get very different in short order.

Posted by: dave | Aug 9 2020 10:46 utc | 56

Capitalism has destroyed the United States by: dave @ 56 <= distinguish the USA from its colony=>America (a nation of 350 million humans governed by 527 salaried yes men).
Then ask, what is the essential function of a government that is charged to manage a society of humanity, so free, so democratic, so independent, that each individual in that society has the opportunity to enter the market, and to practice capitalism?
a. function of government in a capitalism supported society is to referee
and to deny any and all exploitation by one segment of that society
against any other segment of society.
b. Exploitative elements in all human societies seem to always exist.
(Dave said "e worse thing about capitalism has always been capitalists)"
c. Dave said " due to it's exploitative nature as it will destroy any other
empire that continues to use the economy to order society instead of
the other way around."

But Dave capitalism is not a source of exploitation. <= Exploitation exist only where fair, honest, open competition is denied, where the government establishes in one a monopoly power over another. When the government does its job, and does not side with anyone for any reason, exploitative competition limits the exploitative nature of capitalism and exploitative competition does a better job of limiting exploitation than any other system thus far, IMO.

What has happened to America is the USA. The government itself has become the center of exploitation; worse it has stretched its power to rule across the globe and left hanging those who gave it birt. The USA has reneged on its duty to referee with objective fairness and justice for all. Its propaganda has hidden that fault for so long, the eyes among those the masses have loss the ability to detect exploitation.

It all began with when Martin Luther(1492) nailed to the church door his proclamation that people were entitled to understand the writings of the church. Next came the enclosure acts 1600's; where feudal lords began investing in technology and developing factory type industry, and decided to deny the peasants access to food, shelter and substance on the plantations so the peasants would be forced to the towns to serve as factory workers and so the families could no longer gain free access to animal fibre from which to make clothing, shoes, and free access to the lumber and materials needed to make the tools and utensils that keep them alive.
Women that could not sew for lack of these materials became the textile industry customers and were forced to become indebted into to buy the products, their parents had made on the unused parts of the feudal estates. Everything once made at home was now only available from a factory owned by wealth.

Then came the coffee houses attended by the wealthy where they tried once again to make access to understanding a privilege of wealth. Copyrights and patents were developed to protect the monarch from unlicensed writings which might expose the monarch to ridicule, but out of protect the king law, came monopoly power to protect the feudal wealth.. government license it was called, became the perpetual copyright privilege of writers and the perpetual patent privilege of inventors, which copyrights and patents were traded in the coffee houses of England, France, Scotland, Holland and so on as if they were stocks and bonds. About 1786, angry public crowds forced British courts to deny the wealthy perpetual enjoyment of copyright or patent monopolies. So wealthy capitalist Ben Franklin inserted Article I, Section 8, paragraph 8 of the Constitution of the USA in 1787, the following:
" To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors, the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries"

Some time in the 1980's the copyright and patent offices were made into gold mines for the wealthy, and millions of these monopolies were handed out to a few who had the wealth to afford them.

In capitalistic societies, monopolies can only exist when the government has made it a law, that ownership enjoys monopoly power and entitles an owner to not only the right exploit the people, but also the right to use the government to enforce that law against those who do not want to be exploited.

Posted by: snake | Aug 9 2020 12:09 utc | 57

Hang on I might have spotted a country that regularly interferes in elections and which do their level best to stop democracy. Their oligarchs want war with any country that dares to try and own their own natural resources and their armies kill millions of innocents.

Yep you guessed it .............. the good old defenders of democracy and leaders of the free world USofA !!!

Posted by: Gibsonnut | Aug 9 2020 12:26 utc | 58

Seems like b is quick to slap a happy face on political realities, such as the Beirut explosion, which was an accident, and that's a wrap! Why is there any debate over the fact that nations use their intelligence apparatus to interfere in the internal affairs of other nations? Seems to me there's no question about that, though it might be difficult to prove it in a court of law, since it's an official secret.

This Russian interference issue is a product of the failure of the DNC in 2016, not to say there was no Russian meddling. It is a distraction from the fact that the US electoral system does not deliver a "free and fair" vote count. It just doesn't work. It is an inefficient and thoroughly corrupted Rube Goldberg contraption in which each state insists on its right to fuck it up in its own unique way. Want to investigate an electoral outcome? just ask Jill Stein if that is even possible. If you can't prove your vote was counted as cast, you have a faith-based system and how long does naive faith last under capitalism?

Trump won not simply because the Electoral College was designed by oligarchs to make democracy impossible,the original foundational systemic flaw, but because there are a number of ways to avoid the "one person one vote" objective of a free and fair election. Greg Pallast has delved into the various vote suppression techniques. You should check that out, b. Vote fraud is not an international issue. Vote fraud is very local like all politics. Gerrymandering has been with us forever, but computerized voting is relatively new and remains a black box. Read "Code Red" by Jonathan Simon to get some insight into computerized vote fraud. Since Bush's fraudulent 2000 victory that weak & meek Al Gore did not protest, it appears that the country has moved to the right in an historical reversal of trends. This is libertarian billionaire-funded bullshit.

You're wasting time with this, b. If you want to tackle a real issue, try domestic electoral fraud.

Posted by: jadan | Aug 9 2020 12:55 utc | 59

Well, that NY Times article is written by the "Iran has an established nuclear weapons program in 2019" liar named Julian Barnes.

Needless to say, his reporting, on any subject, isn't to be treated as credible effectively for the rest of his career. Barnes' "reporting" is as believable as Sean Hannity of FoxNews commenting on Iran, ISIS, Iraq, or Obama's long form birth certificate.

The Iran nuclear weapons program article put Barnes in a category well beyond the infamous Michael Gordon or Judith Miller. Those latter two simply quoted US "intelligence" sources as if those sources were stating facts--that's akin to the drivel Barnes wrote here.

Posted by: Jay | Aug 9 2020 15:28 utc | 60

Xpilgrim | Aug 8 2020 18:20 utc | 1

So there are criminals in China! This is hardly news. Where is the evidence that the Chinese government was behind the fake drivers' licences? Looking to see more about this story I came across this:

Fake Driver License Generator | Create, customize and ...
Search domain
Driver License Generator. Create fake driver license, with photo and data you like. Select nation or state (U.S., Great Britain, Italy, France, Germany, etc), create driver license, customize it and download or share. To start select the driver license template and click on icon

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 9 2020 15:29 utc | 61

William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 18:45 utc | 5
Is this what you were thinking of?

"Quem Iuppiter vult perdere, dementat prius" (Those whom Jupiter would destroy, he first makes mad.)
A prior Latin version is "Quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat" (Life of Samuel Johnson, 1791)

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 9 2020 15:42 utc | 62

Enrico Malatesta | Aug 8 2020 19:53 utc | 15

The Main-Stream Media, staffed by Repeaters, not Reporters, come in 6 Corporate Flavors that all smell the same.

Yes. They all smell the same, they are, however, dressed up in various disguises/formats to attract different sections of the sheeple. Some are even sold as "Alt-right" while others are "Alt-left". In the end though, the pervasive smell of the Integrity Initiative makes itself obvious.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 9 2020 16:00 utc | 63

I do not see how Trump has 'won' the election by sending the pending evictions into stasis. They will most certainly, (those stayed evictions,) be followed up on with alacrity by any government that holds power after November, when the accrued payments become impossible for those who have been given the rest of the year to suddenly vault up into the heights of the well-to-do. Nor can he do anything further to emphasize that the next 'wall' to come crashing down will be Social Security, and that we know is on the minds of every political fat cat, since it is the last source of coffer-stuffing available now that every other one has been raided.

Surely there are crashes to come. Stay safe everyone - it's my only wish for us all, not just the poor (either in monetary resources or in intellect)inhabitants of the US.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 9 2020 16:16 utc | 64

Virgile | Aug 8 2020 21:22 utc | 29

The USA has always interfered heavily in many country's election
Now it knows what it is like to be in the receiving end...

Have you in fact, ANY evidencefor that? I mean, that anyone other than Bibi is interfering?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 9 2020 16:18 utc | 65

My mother in law , born in Lithuania, has believed that the KGB has been after her for a good part of her life. Only evidence when asked is maybe glances, or close calls when driving. When asked why they would still be after her she says that it will be in the book she is going to write. She is now 96, and still no book. I finally put this paranoia down to a world view that she is the centre of.

Seems a lot like Americans view of America to me.
Egocentric, and narcissistic.

"Overview. Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others."

Posted by: arby | Aug 9 2020 16:40 utc | 66

I meant the above in regards to all this nonsense about Russia, China, and Iran interfering in the US elections.

Posted by: arby | Aug 9 2020 16:42 utc | 67

William Gruff | Aug 8 2020 18:45 utc | 5
foolisholdman | Aug 9 2020 15:42 utc | 62

Thinking about this saying, it occurs to me that it is really standing things on on their heads: Really, the case is, that when people go mad, they frequently destroy themselves. The Gods ain't got nuthin' to do with it!

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 9 2020 17:00 utc | 68

Karlof1 and Gruff at 13 and 23 ,et al.

Thanks your posts, which lead me to ponder...

Re the idea that "...US politics have exposed a systemic disconnect with the country's grassroots. The process of readjusting through the general election is full of controversy, crises and will produce profound influences" ...

Perhaps Chinese and Russian observers are still doing analysis on settled US laws such as "Corporations have the rights of persons"?...and thereby are necessarily involving themselves in the concept that insanity is contagious...i.e. giving too much attention to the insane for too long becomes risky to the observer.

Your quote in my 1st paragraph does seem to be a clinical even avoids confusing blather=labels such as "fascist" or "Neo-something" or even "democracy" or "freedom". The clinician carefully walks a fine line to prevent being contaminated.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 9 2020 18:08 utc | 69

Posted by: David G | Aug 8 2020 21:23 utc | 30

Thanks, David, for a very useful explanation of propaganda as practised by the US leadership.

This explains why they spout "stupid" words day in and day out: their propaganda still works.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Aug 10 2020 6:25 utc | 70

"The statement then claims:

Ahead of the 2020 U.S. elections, foreign states will continue to use covert and overt influence measures in their attempts to sway U.S. voters’ preferences and perspectives, shift U.S. policies, increase discord in the United States, and undermine the American people’s confidence in our democratic process."

What America is yet again conniving to do is to discredit any domestic political dissent against the fraud of "American Democracy" by connecting this dissent to those nations that are the latest targets of America's Two Minutes of Hate campaign.

This is a standard American tactic that the USA always resorts to when it fears its own citizens are starting to question the fairy tale of American "Democracy and Freedom." Thus, during the Cold War, the USA even to discredit some elements of the Civil Rights movement as being assets of the Soviet Union.

The great Orwellian hypocrisy of America's pants-wetting complaints that other countries are meddling in America's (fake) democracy is that the United States itself is guilty of regime changing, balkanizing, and colonizing scores of foreign nations dating back over a century to the USA's regime change and eventual colonization of the Hawaiian Kingdom.

Bottom Line: America needs to drink a big up of Shut the F*ck Up with its pathetic Pity Party whining about foreigners trying to influence its bogus democracy.

This tired psyops is pathetic.

Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq

Killing Hope
U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 10 2020 6:55 utc | 71

No Evidence of Intelligence in US Elections, Foreign Interventionists Say

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 10 2020 13:51 utc | 72

All of those who wish to blame only the "Boomers" for Russophobia, Sinophobia and Iranophobia, need to also look in the mirror. At least at their generation (whichever nomen) and consider how many even bloody well think, care about what we have done, and continue to do to any and every people, nation, country beyond these shores that does not bow in obeisance to the US/western demands, requirements.

As for the election - there is nowt democratic about any of it, nor has there been about any such within the shores. The choice is (and has been for yonks and yonks) between two faces of one single party, both of which are most generously bribed (sorry, funded) and corrupted by all the corporate-capitalist-imperialist companies who make vast fortunes from bleeding other peoples and countries dry, with bombs, via sanctions or taking over their natural resources... A so-called two party system plus an Electoral College, deliberately designed to ensure that the "bewildered herd" (i.e. the ordinary bods) would have no real say (they might overturn the existing plutocratic order)is not a democracy, even less one when the populace has only a perfunctory say in choosing between this or that permissible candidate (permissible by the ruling elites, that is).

Regarding the Boomers - NOT all alike, either financially (not hardly) or politically (even less hardly). (And I grew up from the late 1940s-1950s in the UK and WE had NO duck and cover shit and I have zero recollection of any anti USSR crapola; indeed the Red Army choir used to visit [not that we saw them till we got a tv when I was 10].)

Posted by: AnneR | Aug 10 2020 14:15 utc | 73

We have no evidence, but don't forget, they are evil and wouldn't hesitate to do it!

Posted by: padre | Aug 10 2020 15:12 utc | 74

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